Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
C'mon Justin, it's a bug. It has no positive effect for users, it's not the desired behaviour, and it's on JBQs to-fix list. Lets not get into the realms of marketing by trying to relabel things so they don't sound so bad. Al. Justin (Google Employee) wrote: Well, I don't think this is really a bug in the traditional sense, but an adverse interaction between two pieces of code. The phone should checkpoint the filesystem when it goes to sleep, just in case. The filesystem should probably also not worry about cleanup on checkpointed filesystem, because in the usual case its wasteful. So, here we get an unexpected result when two optimizations meet. Cheers, Justin Android Team @ Google On Jan 12, 4:30 pm, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 2:25 AM, Justin (Google Employee) j...@google.com wrote: Yes, your understanding is correct. Yes, you will need to unlock the screen and wait for the home scree to appear before shutting the phone down the second time. Shutting the phone down is better than pulling the battery. Justin, God bless you! Now go and find that dev who introduced the bug and make something painful to him :) Can't thank you enough - beats the battery pull! :) Cheers, Stoyan -- == Funky Android Limited is registered in England Wales with the company number 6741909. The registered head office is Kemp House, 152-160 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX, UK. The views expressed in this email are those of the author and not necessarily those of Funky Android Limited, it's associates, or it's subsidiaries. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
Just to make some things clear: -the core bug appears to be on the filesystem side. I'm not going to touch that part. -a secondary issue exists in the system process where some unlinked files are kept open longer than necessary (which apparently triggers the core bug). This is where I'm hoping to make some progress. So, I'm not planning to fix the bug itself, just to eliminate a known situation that triggers it. Fixing the bug itself is for people working at a lower level. JBQ On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 1:09 AM, Al Sutton a...@funkyandroid.com wrote: C'mon Justin, it's a bug. It has no positive effect for users, it's not the desired behaviour, and it's on JBQs to-fix list. Lets not get into the realms of marketing by trying to relabel things so they don't sound so bad. Al. Justin (Google Employee) wrote: Well, I don't think this is really a bug in the traditional sense, but an adverse interaction between two pieces of code. The phone should checkpoint the filesystem when it goes to sleep, just in case. The filesystem should probably also not worry about cleanup on checkpointed filesystem, because in the usual case its wasteful. So, here we get an unexpected result when two optimizations meet. Cheers, Justin Android Team @ Google On Jan 12, 4:30 pm, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 2:25 AM, Justin (Google Employee) j...@google.com wrote: Yes, your understanding is correct. Yes, you will need to unlock the screen and wait for the home scree to appear before shutting the phone down the second time. Shutting the phone down is better than pulling the battery. Justin, God bless you! Now go and find that dev who introduced the bug and make something painful to him :) Can't thank you enough - beats the battery pull! :) Cheers, Stoyan -- == Funky Android Limited is registered in England Wales with the company number 6741909. The registered head office is Kemp House, 152-160 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX, UK. The views expressed in this email are those of the author and not necessarily those of Funky Android Limited, it's associates, or it's subsidiaries. -- Jean-Baptiste M. JBQ Queru Android Engineer, Google. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
Thanks for the clarification. Is anyone assigned to look at the filesystem problem or is that being reported upstream? Al. Jean-Baptiste Queru wrote: Just to make some things clear: -the core bug appears to be on the filesystem side. I'm not going to touch that part. -a secondary issue exists in the system process where some unlinked files are kept open longer than necessary (which apparently triggers the core bug). This is where I'm hoping to make some progress. So, I'm not planning to fix the bug itself, just to eliminate a known situation that triggers it. Fixing the bug itself is for people working at a lower level. JBQ On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 1:09 AM, Al Sutton a...@funkyandroid.com wrote: C'mon Justin, it's a bug. It has no positive effect for users, it's not the desired behaviour, and it's on JBQs to-fix list. Lets not get into the realms of marketing by trying to relabel things so they don't sound so bad. Al. Justin (Google Employee) wrote: Well, I don't think this is really a bug in the traditional sense, but an adverse interaction between two pieces of code. The phone should checkpoint the filesystem when it goes to sleep, just in case. The filesystem should probably also not worry about cleanup on checkpointed filesystem, because in the usual case its wasteful. So, here we get an unexpected result when two optimizations meet. Cheers, Justin Android Team @ Google On Jan 12, 4:30 pm, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 2:25 AM, Justin (Google Employee) j...@google.com wrote: Yes, your understanding is correct. Yes, you will need to unlock the screen and wait for the home scree to appear before shutting the phone down the second time. Shutting the phone down is better than pulling the battery. Justin, God bless you! Now go and find that dev who introduced the bug and make something painful to him :) Can't thank you enough - beats the battery pull! :) Cheers, Stoyan -- == Funky Android Limited is registered in England Wales with the company number 6741909. The registered head office is Kemp House, 152-160 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX, UK. The views expressed in this email are those of the author and not necessarily those of Funky Android Limited, it's associates, or it's subsidiaries. -- == Funky Android Limited is registered in England Wales with the company number 6741909. The registered head office is Kemp House, 152-160 City Road, London, EC1V 2NX, UK. The views expressed in this email are those of the author and not necessarily those of Funky Android Limited, it's associates, or it's subsidiaries. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Al Sutton a...@funkyandroid.com wrote: C'mon Justin, it's a bug. It has no positive effect for users, it's not the desired behaviour, and it's on JBQs to-fix list. Lets not get into the realms of marketing by trying to relabel things so they don't sound so bad. +1 There's nothing Google should be ashamed of. Like I said to Dianne previously, Android is an *amazing* non-trivial software with so few bugs in the 1st release! Bugs *are* expected from us developers and users. Labeling a bug undesired behavior and prefixing it with integration is bullshitting no one :) Cheers, Stoyan --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 10:08 AM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 11:09 AM, Al Sutton a...@funkyandroid.com wrote: C'mon Justin, it's a bug. It has no positive effect for users, it's not the desired behaviour, and it's on JBQs to-fix list. Lets not get into the realms of marketing by trying to relabel things so they don't sound so bad. +1 There's nothing Google should be ashamed of. Like I said to Dianne previously, Android is an *amazing* non-trivial software with so few bugs in the 1st release! Bugs *are* expected from us developers and users. Labeling a bug undesired behavior and prefixing it with integration is bullshitting no one :) Cheers, Stoyan Not having a dig, but one does have to think how long it will take for a fix to this to reach the consumer who is actually paying for a G1. This sounds like a potentially big issue to the casual observer... --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
Hi all - new to this, but have a (possibly related, possibly not) issue - I tried the above, and it didn't change... I've seen a number of folks comment on the size of the Market as reported in the Settings- Applications-Manage Applications panel, and I still don't get why my Market is 21MB. Caching aside (as someone earlier in this thread commented), that's huge. It *appears* to be keeping a copy of every APK I've downloaded, just in case I want to re-install it, and there's no way for me to delete them... is this another known bug, or is there a work-around that I haven't found? Justin On Jan 12, 6:25 pm, Justin (Google Employee) j...@google.com wrote: Yes, your understanding is correct. Yes, you will need to unlock the screen and wait for the home scree to appear before shutting the phone down the second time. Shutting the phone down is better than pulling the battery. Cheers, Justin Android Team @ Google On Jan 12, 4:22 pm, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 1:46 AM, Justin (Google Employee) j...@google.com wrote: Here is some more information on what's happening. There is a problem in yaffs2 where unlinked files are not removed from a check-pointed filesystem. Whenever Android sleeps, it check-points the filesystem. When you uninstall an app the files are unlinked. If the device then goes to sleep before the unlinked files are actually removed, they won't be. The proper way to work around this it to shut down your phone by holding down the end call button until you get a dialog asking to shut down your phone. Turn your phone back on. BEFORE your phone can sleep after it reboot, shut it down again. This will clean your unlinked files. Come again, I'm not sure understand that part. Are these the steps for the workaround? 1. Shutdown phone 2. Turn on phone 3. Unlock SIM card, wait for home screen to appear (do I need that?) 4. Shutdown phone 5. Turn on phone, and files will be deleted Thanks, Stoyan --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
The Market cache growing is not related to this issue. When I first heard about it I thought it might be, I investigated, its not. I wasn't trying to label this as not a bug to say oh look at our beautiful, bug free system, but as a semantic argument. I completely agree that most people would label this a bug. Its not worth the effort to carry on with this further, I'll rather just back pedal. Its a bug, its a bug! Cheers, Justin Android Team @ Google On Jan 13, 8:03 am, Justin jmbi...@gmail.com wrote: Hi all - new to this, but have a (possibly related, possibly not) issue - I tried the above, and it didn't change... I've seen a number of folks comment on the size of the Market as reported in the Settings-Applications-Manage Applications panel, and I still don't get why my Market is 21MB. Caching aside (as someone earlier in this thread commented), that's huge. It *appears* to be keeping a copy of every APK I've downloaded, just in case I want to re-install it, and there's no way for me to delete them... is this another known bug, or is there a work-around that I haven't found? Justin On Jan 12, 6:25 pm, Justin (Google Employee) j...@google.com wrote: Yes, your understanding is correct. Yes, you will need to unlock the screen and wait for the home scree to appear before shutting the phone down the second time. Shutting the phone down is better than pulling the battery. Cheers, Justin Android Team @ Google On Jan 12, 4:22 pm, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 1:46 AM, Justin (Google Employee) j...@google.com wrote: Here is some more information on what's happening. There is a problem in yaffs2 where unlinked files are not removed from a check-pointed filesystem. Whenever Android sleeps, it check-points the filesystem. When you uninstall an app the files are unlinked. If the device then goes to sleep before the unlinked files are actually removed, they won't be. The proper way to work around this it to shut down your phone by holding down the end call button until you get a dialog asking to shut down your phone. Turn your phone back on. BEFORE your phone can sleep after it reboot, shut it down again. This will clean your unlinked files. Come again, I'm not sure understand that part. Are these the steps for the workaround? 1. Shutdown phone 2. Turn on phone 3. Unlock SIM card, wait for home screen to appear (do I need that?) 4. Shutdown phone 5. Turn on phone, and files will be deleted Thanks, Stoyan --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Justin (Google Employee) j...@google.com wrote: The Market cache growing is not related to this issue. When I first heard about it I thought it might be, I investigated, its not. I wasn't trying to label this as not a bug to say oh look at our beautiful, bug free system, but as a semantic argument. I completely agree that most people would label this a bug. Its not worth the effort to carry on with this further, I'll rather just back pedal. Its a bug, its a bug! : Jokes aside, I *am* a paying customer :P I don't mind pulling of the battery or even singing chants in order to get the phone's free memory back, but the real *users*... Last time I heard, in August, 1.5 million G1s were pre-ordered. I suspect the number of G1 owners today is not less than 2 million. If 1% of these hit my bug we're talking about 20,000 unhappy customers and I very much doubt it's going to be 1% now that the market is about to open for paid apps and people start installing new apps, deleting older/crappier apps. Cheers --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
1.5 million was a number a blogger pulled from somewhere warm and dark. Realistically I think the numbers that came out were on the order of 250,000. On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 9:47 PM, Justin (Google Employee) j...@google.com wrote: The Market cache growing is not related to this issue. When I first heard about it I thought it might be, I investigated, its not. I wasn't trying to label this as not a bug to say oh look at our beautiful, bug free system, but as a semantic argument. I completely agree that most people would label this a bug. Its not worth the effort to carry on with this further, I'll rather just back pedal. Its a bug, its a bug! : Jokes aside, I *am* a paying customer :P I don't mind pulling of the battery or even singing chants in order to get the phone's free memory back, but the real *users*... Last time I heard, in August, 1.5 million G1s were pre-ordered. I suspect the number of G1 owners today is not less than 2 million. If 1% of these hit my bug we're talking about 20,000 unhappy customers and I very much doubt it's going to be 1% now that the market is about to open for paid apps and people start installing new apps, deleting older/crappier apps. Cheers --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 10:57 PM, Disconnect dc.disconn...@gmail.com wrote: 1.5 million was a number a blogger pulled from somewhere warm and dark. Ahahahahahahaha :) ROFLMAO!!! Realistically I think the numbers that came out were on the order of 250,000. This would kill many people's dreams of riches but I believe this might be a more realistic number. Did you pull it from a light and cool place? ;) Cheers --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
OMG... Thank you! I had no idea this was going on. I had hardly any space left on my phone and this double-reboot trick recovered about 30 MB. On Jan 12, 3:46 pm, Justin (Google Employee) j...@google.com wrote: Here is some more information on what's happening. There is a problem in yaffs2 where unlinked files are not removed from a check-pointed filesystem. Whenever Android sleeps, it check-points the filesystem. When you uninstall an app the files are unlinked. If the device then goes to sleep before the unlinked files are actually removed, they won't be. The proper way to work around this it to shut down your phone by holding down the end call button until you get a dialog asking to shut down your phone. Turn your phone back on. BEFORE your phone can sleep after it reboot, shut it down again. This will clean your unlinked files. This works because when the system starts it has no check-points in the filesystem and one won't be created if the system doesn't sleep. The unlinked files are actually removed then when the file system is mounted or unmounted (I'm not sure which it actually is). Cheers, Justin Android Team @ Google On Jan 12, 1:56 pm, Greg White debauchedsl...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 4:54 PM, Joel Knighton joel.knigh...@gmail.comwrote: Okay, someone who can replicate this problem, can you perform a cat /proc/yaffs and then post the output here. Curious to see the YAFFS debugging info. I don't have the output handy, but I went from ~12K unlinked files to ~2K. This makes a difference.- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
Joel, thanks for your help, but I unfortunately I can't help you help me because I don't have root, so I can't install busybox and I can't give you a meaningful file listing with so many directories being denied access. I didn't see anything interesting in the log, and btw ls hung while (or after) it was listing ./sys/bus/platform/devices. I guess I'll have to bite the bullet and do a factory reset :( Cheers, Stoyan On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 5:33 AM, Joel Knighton joel.knigh...@gmail.com wrote: Okay, Stoyan, if you want to do a ls -l -R and then email it to me (joel.knigh...@gmail.com) I'll read through it and see if I notice a problem. (You can email straight from the terminal app) On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Joel Knighton joel.knigh...@gmail.com wrote: Do you have busybox on the device? If so, I can help you find where the space is gone. With only the included android shell binaries, however, I don't know if I can. On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com wrote: On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: Is there *anyone* who'll dare to tell me there's no bug in Android? Why would anyone claim there are no bugs in -any- piece of complicated software? (Except I guess TeX). How the fuck I don't have *anything* installed (besides the pre-installed G1 apps) and my memory is only ONE MB??? Where are the ~70 MBs??? :((( Just to clarify, none of the installed applications are shown to be using a large amount of data? If that is the case, then there are very few places the storage could have gone. First be sure to check in I believe /data/local (may be something else, it's the directory under /data owned by the shell allowing it to place files there). If that is not large, it could be in data/system, but unlikely. -- Dianne Hackborn Android framework engineer hack...@android.com Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have time to provide private support. All such questions should be posted on public forums, where I and others can see and answer them. -- Joel Knighton -- Joel Knighton --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 4:33 AM, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com wrote: On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: Is there *anyone* who'll dare to tell me there's no bug in Android? Why would anyone claim there are no bugs in -any- piece of complicated software? (Except I guess TeX). Actually Dianne I am *stunned* how few bugs I've found during my 1 month usage of Android. Hail to Google engineers (I'm *not* joking)! This one, however, is a showstopper for me in the verbatim sense. How the fuck I don't have *anything* installed (besides the pre-installed G1 apps) and my memory is only ONE MB??? Where are the ~70 MBs??? :((( Just to clarify, none of the installed applications are shown to be using a large amount of data? Yes, none. If that is the case, then there are very few places the storage could have gone. First be sure to check in I believe /data/local (may be something else, it's the directory under /data owned by the shell allowing it to place files there). If that is not large, it could be in data/system, but unlikely. Well, the over-the-air patch @#$%ed root access so I can't look anywhere. Cheers --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
I'm having the same problem too now, of sorts.. Market claims to be using 19MB of storage (and grows with every app I download), and there doesn't appear to be any way to clear it. On Jan 12, 1:00 am, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 4:33 AM, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com wrote: On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: Is there *anyone* who'll dare to tell me there's no bug in Android? Why would anyone claim there are no bugs in -any- piece of complicated software? (Except I guess TeX). Actually Dianne I am *stunned* how few bugs I've found during my 1 month usage of Android. Hail to Google engineers (I'm *not* joking)! This one, however, is a showstopper for me in the verbatim sense. How the fuck I don't have *anything* installed (besides the pre-installed G1 apps) and my memory is only ONE MB??? Where are the ~70 MBs??? :((( Just to clarify, none of the installed applications are shown to be using a large amount of data? Yes, none. If that is the case, then there are very few places the storage could have gone. First be sure to check in I believe /data/local (may be something else, it's the directory under /data owned by the shell allowing it to place files there). If that is not large, it could be in data/system, but unlikely. Well, the over-the-air patch @#$%ed root access so I can't look anywhere. Cheers --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
I am also seeing similar behavior. Market now shows using 21MB. I thought it might be related to the apps that I had installed, so I uninstalled three applications of varying sizes...the biggest being 3MB. Market still showed using 21MB. I have formed the suspicion that there is a bug in the Market application. I am concerned that the Market size is related to the number of applications available in the Market. As a result, I do not plan on opening the Market application any more until I have read something that convinces me that my suspicions are wrong or that they were correct and the problem has been fixed. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
HaleRazor wrote: I am also seeing similar behavior. Market now shows using 21MB. I thought it might be related to the apps that I had installed, so I uninstalled three applications of varying sizes...the biggest being 3MB. Market still showed using 21MB. I have formed the suspicion that there is a bug in the Market application. I am concerned that the Market size is related to the number of applications available in the Market. As a result, I do not plan on opening the Market application any more until I have read something that convinces me that my suspicions are wrong or that they were correct and the problem has been fixed. This has been written up on a few occasions, including me on this thread. The Android Market apparently caches market-related information (e.g., icons and descriptions). This cache is not proactively released. However, when free storage space drops far enough, the Market will free up the cache. The core Android team has indicated that they need to try to free up that cache more proactively. The Market has nothing to do with what apps you have installed or uninstalled, AFAIK, so uninstalling an app will not affect the Market size. -- Mark Murphy (a Commons Guy) http://commonsware.com _The Busy Coder's Guide to Android Development_ Version 2.0 Available! --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
What is your reference for the market actually freeing cache? The devs I talked to about this indicated it did not do that. (Ditto for the occasional lost webpage screenshot, but at least 'delete all data' can clear that at the expense of bookmarks, etc) On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:43 PM, Mark Murphy mmur...@commonsware.comwrote: HaleRazor wrote: I am also seeing similar behavior. Market now shows using 21MB. I thought it might be related to the apps that I had installed, so I uninstalled three applications of varying sizes...the biggest being 3MB. Market still showed using 21MB. I have formed the suspicion that there is a bug in the Market application. I am concerned that the Market size is related to the number of applications available in the Market. As a result, I do not plan on opening the Market application any more until I have read something that convinces me that my suspicions are wrong or that they were correct and the problem has been fixed. This has been written up on a few occasions, including me on this thread. The Android Market apparently caches market-related information (e.g., icons and descriptions). This cache is not proactively released. However, when free storage space drops far enough, the Market will free up the cache. The core Android team has indicated that they need to try to free up that cache more proactively. The Market has nothing to do with what apps you have installed or uninstalled, AFAIK, so uninstalling an app will not affect the Market size. -- Mark Murphy (a Commons Guy) http://commonsware.com _The Busy Coder's Guide to Android Development_ Version 2.0 Available! --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 8:43 PM, Mark Murphy mmur...@commonsware.com wrote: The Android Market apparently caches market-related information (e.g., icons and descriptions). This cache is not proactively released. However, when free storage space drops far enough, the Market will free up the cache. The core Android team has indicated that they need to try to free up that cache more proactively. The Market has nothing to do with what apps you have installed or uninstalled, AFAIK, so uninstalling an app will not affect the Market size. Mark, this doesn't make sense - a .png icon is 5K. Let's say that you have browsed 1000 apps - that's ~5M. I very much doubt descriptions will increase this number to more than 6MB. Let's put 4 MB of comments (ahem). Now, compare 10MB to 21 - my guess is Market does a little bit more than expected. Cheers --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
The Market has nothing to do with what apps you have installed or uninstalled, AFAIK, so uninstalling an app will not affect the Market size. The Market may not have anything to do with what apps are installed, but the Market application on the device does. I agree with Stoyan about that app keeping track of more than expected. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
Second hand information about the battery trick: yaffs2 has some sanity-checking code that can detect and recover from unlinked files, but that code is only run when the filesystem wasn't cleanly unmounted. JBQ On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 10:55 PM, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com wrote: Another place to look -- there is a filesystem bug that can sometimes happen where unlinked files are not recovered. Here is the comment from an engineer who knows more about it: They can easily tell by looking at the number of unlinked files for the user partition in /proc/yaffs. If that number is very large, then they can reboot the device, wait a few second after they see the android, then pull the battery again. That should make the number of unlinked files drop back down. If that number isn't very large, then it is probably something else. I read about this on the net -- I thought it was some sort of a dark joke or something -- apparently not :) I did pull the battery though - nothing (good) happened. This developer you're talking about - can he elaborate on how the battery pull trick actually works -- I'm genuinely interested. Unfortunately it looks like only root cat read /proc/yaffs (though that seems a little overly restrictive). However you can try the pulling the battery trick and see if that helps. Well, the over-the-air patch @#$%ed root access so I can't look anywhere. The /data/local directory is owned by the shell user, so you don't need root for that -- just cd /data/local and look at what is there. There is a chance that some temp .apk files have been left there from adb install, or some other files created by other shell sessions. I already reset the phone but if I encounter this again I'll check there (+ I'll have root this time :) Thanks, Stoyan -- Jean-Baptiste M. JBQ Queru Android Engineer, Google. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
Thanks. A little bit more info about that bug - I *am* experiencing it again. It *is* related to re-installs of one and the same application over and over again. I reinstalled my app maybe ~20 times today and slowly my ~70 went to 63 MB. My app is 2MB so I have to have ~68MB but I don't. I noticed the browser took 2MB and deleted them. However, the free memory increased by ONE MB. WTF is going on here? Hurray! :) I did the battery pull and apparently I've hit the right moment to pull the battery. My memory increased from 64 to 69 MB. Now, how the device pulled that off is a mystery to me because my app is 2MB (perhaps the ~70 MB are close to ~71) but what the heck, the good thing is that the bug is indeed *this* one, and not another which I'm the only one experiencing! Problem solved, THANKS to everybody! Cheers On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 11:06 PM, Jean-Baptiste Queru j...@google.com wrote: Second hand information about the battery trick: yaffs2 has some sanity-checking code that can detect and recover from unlinked files, but that code is only run when the filesystem wasn't cleanly unmounted. JBQ On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 10:55 PM, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com wrote: Another place to look -- there is a filesystem bug that can sometimes happen where unlinked files are not recovered. Here is the comment from an engineer who knows more about it: They can easily tell by looking at the number of unlinked files for the user partition in /proc/yaffs. If that number is very large, then they can reboot the device, wait a few second after they see the android, then pull the battery again. That should make the number of unlinked files drop back down. If that number isn't very large, then it is probably something else. I read about this on the net -- I thought it was some sort of a dark joke or something -- apparently not :) I did pull the battery though - nothing (good) happened. This developer you're talking about - can he elaborate on how the battery pull trick actually works -- I'm genuinely interested. Unfortunately it looks like only root cat read /proc/yaffs (though that seems a little overly restrictive). However you can try the pulling the battery trick and see if that helps. Well, the over-the-air patch @#$%ed root access so I can't look anywhere. The /data/local directory is owned by the shell user, so you don't need root for that -- just cd /data/local and look at what is there. There is a chance that some temp .apk files have been left there from adb install, or some other files created by other shell sessions. I already reset the phone but if I encounter this again I'll check there (+ I'll have root this time :) Thanks, Stoyan -- Jean-Baptiste M. JBQ Queru Android Engineer, Google. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
There is a bug somewhere (it's assigned to me for investigation) where the system process keeps apk files open after they get unlinked in some scenario close to what you mention (install, launch, uninstall), which can then trigger the yaffs2 leak bug. JBQ On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks. A little bit more info about that bug - I *am* experiencing it again. It *is* related to re-installs of one and the same application over and over again. I reinstalled my app maybe ~20 times today and slowly my ~70 went to 63 MB. My app is 2MB so I have to have ~68MB but I don't. I noticed the browser took 2MB and deleted them. However, the free memory increased by ONE MB. WTF is going on here? Hurray! :) I did the battery pull and apparently I've hit the right moment to pull the battery. My memory increased from 64 to 69 MB. Now, how the device pulled that off is a mystery to me because my app is 2MB (perhaps the ~70 MB are close to ~71) but what the heck, the good thing is that the bug is indeed *this* one, and not another which I'm the only one experiencing! Problem solved, THANKS to everybody! Cheers On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 11:06 PM, Jean-Baptiste Queru j...@google.com wrote: Second hand information about the battery trick: yaffs2 has some sanity-checking code that can detect and recover from unlinked files, but that code is only run when the filesystem wasn't cleanly unmounted. JBQ On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 10:55 PM, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com wrote: Another place to look -- there is a filesystem bug that can sometimes happen where unlinked files are not recovered. Here is the comment from an engineer who knows more about it: They can easily tell by looking at the number of unlinked files for the user partition in /proc/yaffs. If that number is very large, then they can reboot the device, wait a few second after they see the android, then pull the battery again. That should make the number of unlinked files drop back down. If that number isn't very large, then it is probably something else. I read about this on the net -- I thought it was some sort of a dark joke or something -- apparently not :) I did pull the battery though - nothing (good) happened. This developer you're talking about - can he elaborate on how the battery pull trick actually works -- I'm genuinely interested. Unfortunately it looks like only root cat read /proc/yaffs (though that seems a little overly restrictive). However you can try the pulling the battery trick and see if that helps. Well, the over-the-air patch @#$%ed root access so I can't look anywhere. The /data/local directory is owned by the shell user, so you don't need root for that -- just cd /data/local and look at what is there. There is a chance that some temp .apk files have been left there from adb install, or some other files created by other shell sessions. I already reset the phone but if I encounter this again I'll check there (+ I'll have root this time :) Thanks, Stoyan -- Jean-Baptiste M. JBQ Queru Android Engineer, Google. -- Jean-Baptiste M. JBQ Queru Android Engineer, Google. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
You might want to check whether this is related to having a shortcut of the app on the home screen. I have a hunch it is. Cheers On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 11:39 PM, Jean-Baptiste Queru j...@google.com wrote: There is a bug somewhere (it's assigned to me for investigation) where the system process keeps apk files open after they get unlinked in some scenario close to what you mention (install, launch, uninstall), which can then trigger the yaffs2 leak bug. JBQ On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks. A little bit more info about that bug - I *am* experiencing it again. It *is* related to re-installs of one and the same application over and over again. I reinstalled my app maybe ~20 times today and slowly my ~70 went to 63 MB. My app is 2MB so I have to have ~68MB but I don't. I noticed the browser took 2MB and deleted them. However, the free memory increased by ONE MB. WTF is going on here? Hurray! :) I did the battery pull and apparently I've hit the right moment to pull the battery. My memory increased from 64 to 69 MB. Now, how the device pulled that off is a mystery to me because my app is 2MB (perhaps the ~70 MB are close to ~71) but what the heck, the good thing is that the bug is indeed *this* one, and not another which I'm the only one experiencing! Problem solved, THANKS to everybody! Cheers On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 11:06 PM, Jean-Baptiste Queru j...@google.com wrote: Second hand information about the battery trick: yaffs2 has some sanity-checking code that can detect and recover from unlinked files, but that code is only run when the filesystem wasn't cleanly unmounted. JBQ On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 10:55 PM, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com wrote: Another place to look -- there is a filesystem bug that can sometimes happen where unlinked files are not recovered. Here is the comment from an engineer who knows more about it: They can easily tell by looking at the number of unlinked files for the user partition in /proc/yaffs. If that number is very large, then they can reboot the device, wait a few second after they see the android, then pull the battery again. That should make the number of unlinked files drop back down. If that number isn't very large, then it is probably something else. I read about this on the net -- I thought it was some sort of a dark joke or something -- apparently not :) I did pull the battery though - nothing (good) happened. This developer you're talking about - can he elaborate on how the battery pull trick actually works -- I'm genuinely interested. Unfortunately it looks like only root cat read /proc/yaffs (though that seems a little overly restrictive). However you can try the pulling the battery trick and see if that helps. Well, the over-the-air patch @#$%ed root access so I can't look anywhere. The /data/local directory is owned by the shell user, so you don't need root for that -- just cd /data/local and look at what is there. There is a chance that some temp .apk files have been left there from adb install, or some other files created by other shell sessions. I already reset the phone but if I encounter this again I'll check there (+ I'll have root this time :) Thanks, Stoyan -- Jean-Baptiste M. JBQ Queru Android Engineer, Google. -- Jean-Baptiste M. JBQ Queru Android Engineer, Google. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
When I tried to reproduce it a few months ago I think that I was able to reproduce it without such a shortcut, but I might be wrong. JBQ On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: You might want to check whether this is related to having a shortcut of the app on the home screen. I have a hunch it is. Cheers On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 11:39 PM, Jean-Baptiste Queru j...@google.com wrote: There is a bug somewhere (it's assigned to me for investigation) where the system process keeps apk files open after they get unlinked in some scenario close to what you mention (install, launch, uninstall), which can then trigger the yaffs2 leak bug. JBQ On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks. A little bit more info about that bug - I *am* experiencing it again. It *is* related to re-installs of one and the same application over and over again. I reinstalled my app maybe ~20 times today and slowly my ~70 went to 63 MB. My app is 2MB so I have to have ~68MB but I don't. I noticed the browser took 2MB and deleted them. However, the free memory increased by ONE MB. WTF is going on here? Hurray! :) I did the battery pull and apparently I've hit the right moment to pull the battery. My memory increased from 64 to 69 MB. Now, how the device pulled that off is a mystery to me because my app is 2MB (perhaps the ~70 MB are close to ~71) but what the heck, the good thing is that the bug is indeed *this* one, and not another which I'm the only one experiencing! Problem solved, THANKS to everybody! Cheers On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 11:06 PM, Jean-Baptiste Queru j...@google.com wrote: Second hand information about the battery trick: yaffs2 has some sanity-checking code that can detect and recover from unlinked files, but that code is only run when the filesystem wasn't cleanly unmounted. JBQ On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 10:55 PM, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com wrote: Another place to look -- there is a filesystem bug that can sometimes happen where unlinked files are not recovered. Here is the comment from an engineer who knows more about it: They can easily tell by looking at the number of unlinked files for the user partition in /proc/yaffs. If that number is very large, then they can reboot the device, wait a few second after they see the android, then pull the battery again. That should make the number of unlinked files drop back down. If that number isn't very large, then it is probably something else. I read about this on the net -- I thought it was some sort of a dark joke or something -- apparently not :) I did pull the battery though - nothing (good) happened. This developer you're talking about - can he elaborate on how the battery pull trick actually works -- I'm genuinely interested. Unfortunately it looks like only root cat read /proc/yaffs (though that seems a little overly restrictive). However you can try the pulling the battery trick and see if that helps. Well, the over-the-air patch @#$%ed root access so I can't look anywhere. The /data/local directory is owned by the shell user, so you don't need root for that -- just cd /data/local and look at what is there. There is a chance that some temp .apk files have been left there from adb install, or some other files created by other shell sessions. I already reset the phone but if I encounter this again I'll check there (+ I'll have root this time :) Thanks, Stoyan -- Jean-Baptiste M. JBQ Queru Android Engineer, Google. -- Jean-Baptiste M. JBQ Queru Android Engineer, Google. -- Jean-Baptiste M. JBQ Queru Android Engineer, Google. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
Okay, someone who can replicate this problem, can you perform a cat /proc/yaffs and then post the output here. Curious to see the YAFFS debugging info. On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Jean-Baptiste Queru j...@google.com wrote: When I tried to reproduce it a few months ago I think that I was able to reproduce it without such a shortcut, but I might be wrong. JBQ On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: You might want to check whether this is related to having a shortcut of the app on the home screen. I have a hunch it is. Cheers On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 11:39 PM, Jean-Baptiste Queru j...@google.com wrote: There is a bug somewhere (it's assigned to me for investigation) where the system process keeps apk files open after they get unlinked in some scenario close to what you mention (install, launch, uninstall), which can then trigger the yaffs2 leak bug. JBQ On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks. A little bit more info about that bug - I *am* experiencing it again. It *is* related to re-installs of one and the same application over and over again. I reinstalled my app maybe ~20 times today and slowly my ~70 went to 63 MB. My app is 2MB so I have to have ~68MB but I don't. I noticed the browser took 2MB and deleted them. However, the free memory increased by ONE MB. WTF is going on here? Hurray! :) I did the battery pull and apparently I've hit the right moment to pull the battery. My memory increased from 64 to 69 MB. Now, how the device pulled that off is a mystery to me because my app is 2MB (perhaps the ~70 MB are close to ~71) but what the heck, the good thing is that the bug is indeed *this* one, and not another which I'm the only one experiencing! Problem solved, THANKS to everybody! Cheers On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 11:06 PM, Jean-Baptiste Queru j...@google.com wrote: Second hand information about the battery trick: yaffs2 has some sanity-checking code that can detect and recover from unlinked files, but that code is only run when the filesystem wasn't cleanly unmounted. JBQ On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 10:55 PM, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com wrote: Another place to look -- there is a filesystem bug that can sometimes happen where unlinked files are not recovered. Here is the comment from an engineer who knows more about it: They can easily tell by looking at the number of unlinked files for the user partition in /proc/yaffs. If that number is very large, then they can reboot the device, wait a few second after they see the android, then pull the battery again. That should make the number of unlinked files drop back down. If that number isn't very large, then it is probably something else. I read about this on the net -- I thought it was some sort of a dark joke or something -- apparently not :) I did pull the battery though - nothing (good) happened. This developer you're talking about - can he elaborate on how the battery pull trick actually works -- I'm genuinely interested. Unfortunately it looks like only root cat read /proc/yaffs (though that seems a little overly restrictive). However you can try the pulling the battery trick and see if that helps. Well, the over-the-air patch @#$%ed root access so I can't look anywhere. The /data/local directory is owned by the shell user, so you don't need root for that -- just cd /data/local and look at what is there. There is a chance that some temp .apk files have been left there from adb install, or some other files created by other shell sessions. I already reset the phone but if I encounter this again I'll check there (+ I'll have root this time :) Thanks, Stoyan -- Jean-Baptiste M. JBQ Queru Android Engineer, Google. -- Jean-Baptiste M. JBQ Queru Android Engineer, Google. -- Jean-Baptiste M. JBQ Queru Android Engineer, Google. -- Joel Knighton --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
In fact, if you have root access, a $su #echo all /proc/yaffs #cat /proc/yaffs would be optimal. This should give a fair amount of debugging info for system, userdata, and cache. If you post that up here, I should be able to give it a shot. On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Joel Knighton joel.knigh...@gmail.comwrote: Okay, someone who can replicate this problem, can you perform a cat /proc/yaffs and then post the output here. Curious to see the YAFFS debugging info. On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Jean-Baptiste Queru j...@google.comwrote: When I tried to reproduce it a few months ago I think that I was able to reproduce it without such a shortcut, but I might be wrong. JBQ On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: You might want to check whether this is related to having a shortcut of the app on the home screen. I have a hunch it is. Cheers On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 11:39 PM, Jean-Baptiste Queru j...@google.com wrote: There is a bug somewhere (it's assigned to me for investigation) where the system process keeps apk files open after they get unlinked in some scenario close to what you mention (install, launch, uninstall), which can then trigger the yaffs2 leak bug. JBQ On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks. A little bit more info about that bug - I *am* experiencing it again. It *is* related to re-installs of one and the same application over and over again. I reinstalled my app maybe ~20 times today and slowly my ~70 went to 63 MB. My app is 2MB so I have to have ~68MB but I don't. I noticed the browser took 2MB and deleted them. However, the free memory increased by ONE MB. WTF is going on here? Hurray! :) I did the battery pull and apparently I've hit the right moment to pull the battery. My memory increased from 64 to 69 MB. Now, how the device pulled that off is a mystery to me because my app is 2MB (perhaps the ~70 MB are close to ~71) but what the heck, the good thing is that the bug is indeed *this* one, and not another which I'm the only one experiencing! Problem solved, THANKS to everybody! Cheers On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 11:06 PM, Jean-Baptiste Queru j...@google.com wrote: Second hand information about the battery trick: yaffs2 has some sanity-checking code that can detect and recover from unlinked files, but that code is only run when the filesystem wasn't cleanly unmounted. JBQ On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 10:55 PM, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com wrote: Another place to look -- there is a filesystem bug that can sometimes happen where unlinked files are not recovered. Here is the comment from an engineer who knows more about it: They can easily tell by looking at the number of unlinked files for the user partition in /proc/yaffs. If that number is very large, then they can reboot the device, wait a few second after they see the android, then pull the battery again. That should make the number of unlinked files drop back down. If that number isn't very large, then it is probably something else. I read about this on the net -- I thought it was some sort of a dark joke or something -- apparently not :) I did pull the battery though - nothing (good) happened. This developer you're talking about - can he elaborate on how the battery pull trick actually works -- I'm genuinely interested. Unfortunately it looks like only root cat read /proc/yaffs (though that seems a little overly restrictive). However you can try the pulling the battery trick and see if that helps. Well, the over-the-air patch @#$%ed root access so I can't look anywhere. The /data/local directory is owned by the shell user, so you don't need root for that -- just cd /data/local and look at what is there. There is a chance that some temp .apk files have been left there from adb install, or some other files created by other shell sessions. I already reset the phone but if I encounter this again I'll check there (+ I'll have root this time :) Thanks, Stoyan -- Jean-Baptiste M. JBQ Queru Android Engineer, Google. -- Jean-Baptiste M. JBQ Queru Android Engineer, Google. -- Jean-Baptiste M. JBQ Queru Android Engineer, Google. -- Joel Knighton -- Joel Knighton --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
I guess by you you don't mean me - I don't have root access. BTW, I just found another bug, which is very weird but I'll send it in a new post. On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 11:58 PM, Joel Knighton joel.knigh...@gmail.com wrote: In fact, if you have root access, a $su #echo all /proc/yaffs #cat /proc/yaffs would be optimal. This should give a fair amount of debugging info for system, userdata, and cache. If you post that up here, I should be able to give it a shot. On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Joel Knighton joel.knigh...@gmail.com wrote: Okay, someone who can replicate this problem, can you perform a cat /proc/yaffs and then post the output here. Curious to see the YAFFS debugging info. On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Jean-Baptiste Queru j...@google.com wrote: When I tried to reproduce it a few months ago I think that I was able to reproduce it without such a shortcut, but I might be wrong. JBQ On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: You might want to check whether this is related to having a shortcut of the app on the home screen. I have a hunch it is. Cheers On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 11:39 PM, Jean-Baptiste Queru j...@google.com wrote: There is a bug somewhere (it's assigned to me for investigation) where the system process keeps apk files open after they get unlinked in some scenario close to what you mention (install, launch, uninstall), which can then trigger the yaffs2 leak bug. JBQ On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks. A little bit more info about that bug - I *am* experiencing it again. It *is* related to re-installs of one and the same application over and over again. I reinstalled my app maybe ~20 times today and slowly my ~70 went to 63 MB. My app is 2MB so I have to have ~68MB but I don't. I noticed the browser took 2MB and deleted them. However, the free memory increased by ONE MB. WTF is going on here? Hurray! :) I did the battery pull and apparently I've hit the right moment to pull the battery. My memory increased from 64 to 69 MB. Now, how the device pulled that off is a mystery to me because my app is 2MB (perhaps the ~70 MB are close to ~71) but what the heck, the good thing is that the bug is indeed *this* one, and not another which I'm the only one experiencing! Problem solved, THANKS to everybody! Cheers On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 11:06 PM, Jean-Baptiste Queru j...@google.com wrote: Second hand information about the battery trick: yaffs2 has some sanity-checking code that can detect and recover from unlinked files, but that code is only run when the filesystem wasn't cleanly unmounted. JBQ On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 10:55 PM, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com wrote: Another place to look -- there is a filesystem bug that can sometimes happen where unlinked files are not recovered. Here is the comment from an engineer who knows more about it: They can easily tell by looking at the number of unlinked files for the user partition in /proc/yaffs. If that number is very large, then they can reboot the device, wait a few second after they see the android, then pull the battery again. That should make the number of unlinked files drop back down. If that number isn't very large, then it is probably something else. I read about this on the net -- I thought it was some sort of a dark joke or something -- apparently not :) I did pull the battery though - nothing (good) happened. This developer you're talking about - can he elaborate on how the battery pull trick actually works -- I'm genuinely interested. Unfortunately it looks like only root cat read /proc/yaffs (though that seems a little overly restrictive). However you can try the pulling the battery trick and see if that helps. Well, the over-the-air patch @#$%ed root access so I can't look anywhere. The /data/local directory is owned by the shell user, so you don't need root for that -- just cd /data/local and look at what is there. There is a chance that some temp .apk files have been left there from adb install, or some other files created by other shell sessions. I already reset the phone but if I encounter this again I'll check there (+ I'll have root this time :) Thanks, Stoyan -- Jean-Baptiste M. JBQ Queru Android Engineer, Google. -- Jean-Baptiste M. JBQ Queru Android Engineer, Google. -- Jean-Baptiste M. JBQ Queru Android Engineer, Google. -- Joel Knighton -- Joel Knighton --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
Just anybody. If you'd like, you could still do the first one for me and help out a bit. On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.comwrote: I guess by you you don't mean me - I don't have root access. BTW, I just found another bug, which is very weird but I'll send it in a new post. On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 11:58 PM, Joel Knighton joel.knigh...@gmail.com wrote: In fact, if you have root access, a $su #echo all /proc/yaffs #cat /proc/yaffs would be optimal. This should give a fair amount of debugging info for system, userdata, and cache. If you post that up here, I should be able to give it a shot. On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Joel Knighton joel.knigh...@gmail.com wrote: Okay, someone who can replicate this problem, can you perform a cat /proc/yaffs and then post the output here. Curious to see the YAFFS debugging info. On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Jean-Baptiste Queru j...@google.com wrote: When I tried to reproduce it a few months ago I think that I was able to reproduce it without such a shortcut, but I might be wrong. JBQ On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: You might want to check whether this is related to having a shortcut of the app on the home screen. I have a hunch it is. Cheers On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 11:39 PM, Jean-Baptiste Queru j...@google.com wrote: There is a bug somewhere (it's assigned to me for investigation) where the system process keeps apk files open after they get unlinked in some scenario close to what you mention (install, launch, uninstall), which can then trigger the yaffs2 leak bug. JBQ On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks. A little bit more info about that bug - I *am* experiencing it again. It *is* related to re-installs of one and the same application over and over again. I reinstalled my app maybe ~20 times today and slowly my ~70 went to 63 MB. My app is 2MB so I have to have ~68MB but I don't. I noticed the browser took 2MB and deleted them. However, the free memory increased by ONE MB. WTF is going on here? Hurray! :) I did the battery pull and apparently I've hit the right moment to pull the battery. My memory increased from 64 to 69 MB. Now, how the device pulled that off is a mystery to me because my app is 2MB (perhaps the ~70 MB are close to ~71) but what the heck, the good thing is that the bug is indeed *this* one, and not another which I'm the only one experiencing! Problem solved, THANKS to everybody! Cheers On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 11:06 PM, Jean-Baptiste Queru j...@google.com wrote: Second hand information about the battery trick: yaffs2 has some sanity-checking code that can detect and recover from unlinked files, but that code is only run when the filesystem wasn't cleanly unmounted. JBQ On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 10:55 PM, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com wrote: Another place to look -- there is a filesystem bug that can sometimes happen where unlinked files are not recovered. Here is the comment from an engineer who knows more about it: They can easily tell by looking at the number of unlinked files for the user partition in /proc/yaffs. If that number is very large, then they can reboot the device, wait a few second after they see the android, then pull the battery again. That should make the number of unlinked files drop back down. If that number isn't very large, then it is probably something else. I read about this on the net -- I thought it was some sort of a dark joke or something -- apparently not :) I did pull the battery though - nothing (good) happened. This developer you're talking about - can he elaborate on how the battery pull trick actually works -- I'm genuinely interested. Unfortunately it looks like only root cat read /proc/yaffs (though that seems a little overly restrictive). However you can try the pulling the battery trick and see if that helps. Well, the over-the-air patch @#$%ed root access so I can't look anywhere. The /data/local directory is owned by the shell user, so you don't need root for that -- just cd /data/local and look at what is there. There is a chance that some temp .apk files have been left there from adb install, or some other files created by other shell sessions. I already reset the phone but if I encounter this again I'll check there (+ I'll have root this time :) Thanks, Stoyan -- Jean-Baptiste M. JBQ Queru Android Engineer, Google. -- Jean-Baptiste M. JBQ
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
Why not? Its available to anyone with a g1 these days (if you are willing to wipe out your data, which it sounds like you have to do occasionally anyway) *http://tinyurl.com/g1rc30* On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 5:00 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.comwrote: I guess by you you don't mean me - I don't have root access. BTW, I just found another bug, which is very weird but I'll send it in a new post. On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 11:58 PM, Joel Knighton joel.knigh...@gmail.com wrote: In fact, if you have root access, a $su #echo all /proc/yaffs #cat /proc/yaffs would be optimal. This should give a fair amount of debugging info for system, userdata, and cache. If you post that up here, I should be able to give it a shot. On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Joel Knighton joel.knigh...@gmail.com wrote: Okay, someone who can replicate this problem, can you perform a cat /proc/yaffs and then post the output here. Curious to see the YAFFS debugging info. On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Jean-Baptiste Queru j...@google.com wrote: When I tried to reproduce it a few months ago I think that I was able to reproduce it without such a shortcut, but I might be wrong. JBQ On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: You might want to check whether this is related to having a shortcut of the app on the home screen. I have a hunch it is. Cheers On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 11:39 PM, Jean-Baptiste Queru j...@google.com wrote: There is a bug somewhere (it's assigned to me for investigation) where the system process keeps apk files open after they get unlinked in some scenario close to what you mention (install, launch, uninstall), which can then trigger the yaffs2 leak bug. JBQ On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks. A little bit more info about that bug - I *am* experiencing it again. It *is* related to re-installs of one and the same application over and over again. I reinstalled my app maybe ~20 times today and slowly my ~70 went to 63 MB. My app is 2MB so I have to have ~68MB but I don't. I noticed the browser took 2MB and deleted them. However, the free memory increased by ONE MB. WTF is going on here? Hurray! :) I did the battery pull and apparently I've hit the right moment to pull the battery. My memory increased from 64 to 69 MB. Now, how the device pulled that off is a mystery to me because my app is 2MB (perhaps the ~70 MB are close to ~71) but what the heck, the good thing is that the bug is indeed *this* one, and not another which I'm the only one experiencing! Problem solved, THANKS to everybody! Cheers On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 11:06 PM, Jean-Baptiste Queru j...@google.com wrote: Second hand information about the battery trick: yaffs2 has some sanity-checking code that can detect and recover from unlinked files, but that code is only run when the filesystem wasn't cleanly unmounted. JBQ On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:02 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 10:55 PM, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.com wrote: Another place to look -- there is a filesystem bug that can sometimes happen where unlinked files are not recovered. Here is the comment from an engineer who knows more about it: They can easily tell by looking at the number of unlinked files for the user partition in /proc/yaffs. If that number is very large, then they can reboot the device, wait a few second after they see the android, then pull the battery again. That should make the number of unlinked files drop back down. If that number isn't very large, then it is probably something else. I read about this on the net -- I thought it was some sort of a dark joke or something -- apparently not :) I did pull the battery though - nothing (good) happened. This developer you're talking about - can he elaborate on how the battery pull trick actually works -- I'm genuinely interested. Unfortunately it looks like only root cat read /proc/yaffs (though that seems a little overly restrictive). However you can try the pulling the battery trick and see if that helps. Well, the over-the-air patch @#$%ed root access so I can't look anywhere. The /data/local directory is owned by the shell user, so you don't need root for that -- just cd /data/local and look at what is there. There is a chance that some temp .apk files have been left there from adb install, or some other files created by other shell sessions. I already reset the phone but if I encounter this again I'll check there (+ I'll have root this time :) Thanks, Stoyan -- Jean-Baptiste M. JBQ
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
Find it below, I'll do it again when the memory drops so you can compare: YAFFS built:Oct 6 2008 14:13:20 $Id$ $Id$ Device 0 system startBlock. 0 endBlock... 539 totalBytesPerChunk. 2048 nDataBytesPerChunk. 2048 chunkGroupBits. 0 chunkGroupSize. 1 nErasedBlocks.. 9 nReservedBlocks 5 blocksInCheckpoint. 1 nTnodesCreated. 2700 nFreeTnodes 55 nObjectsCreated 500 nFreeObjects... 2 nFreeChunks 2558 nPageWrites 0 nPageReads. 36630 nBlockErasures. 0 nGCCopies.. 0 garbageCollections. 0 passiveGCs. 0 nRetriedWrites. 0 nShortOpCaches. 10 nRetireBlocks.. 0 eccFixed... 0 eccUnfixed. 0 tagsEccFixed... 0 tagsEccUnfixed. 0 cacheHits.. 0 nDeletedFiles.. 42 nUnlinkedFiles. 342 nBackgroudDeletions 0 useNANDECC. 1 isYaffs2... 1 inbandTags. 0 Device 1 userdata startBlock. 0 endBlock... 597 totalBytesPerChunk. 2048 nDataBytesPerChunk. 2048 chunkGroupBits. 0 chunkGroupSize. 1 nErasedBlocks.. 12 nReservedBlocks 5 blocksInCheckpoint. 0 nTnodesCreated. 2500 nFreeTnodes 44 nObjectsCreated 2400 nFreeObjects... 22 nFreeChunks 32854 nPageWrites 543 nPageReads. 3394 nBlockErasures. 1 nGCCopies.. 0 garbageCollections. 1 passiveGCs. 1 nRetriedWrites. 0 nShortOpCaches. 10 nRetireBlocks.. 0 eccFixed... 0 eccUnfixed. 0 tagsEccFixed... 0 tagsEccUnfixed. 0 cacheHits.. 265 nDeletedFiles.. 2166 nUnlinkedFiles. 5152 nBackgroudDeletions 0 useNANDECC. 1 isYaffs2... 1 inbandTags. 0 Device 2 cache startBlock. 0 endBlock... 539 totalBytesPerChunk. 2048 nDataBytesPerChunk. 2048 chunkGroupBits. 0 chunkGroupSize. 1 nErasedBlocks.. 536 nReservedBlocks 5 blocksInCheckpoint. 0 nTnodesCreated. 100 nFreeTnodes 81 nObjectsCreated 100 nFreeObjects... 84 nFreeChunks 34414 nPageWrites 6 nPageReads. 24 nBlockErasures. 0 nGCCopies.. 0 garbageCollections. 0 passiveGCs. 0 nRetriedWrites. 0 nShortOpCaches. 10 nRetireBlocks.. 0 eccFixed... 0 eccUnfixed. 0 tagsEccFixed... 0 tagsEccUnfixed. 0 cacheHits.. 0 nDeletedFiles.. 3 nUnlinkedFiles. 6 nBackgroudDeletions 0 useNANDECC. 1 isYaffs2... 1 inbandTags. 0 On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 12:03 AM, Joel Knighton joel.knigh...@gmail.com wrote: Just anybody. If you'd like, you could still do the first one for me and help out a bit. On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 4:00 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: I guess by you you don't mean me - I don't have root access. BTW, I just found another bug, which is very weird but I'll send it in a new post. On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 11:58 PM, Joel Knighton joel.knigh...@gmail.com wrote: In fact, if you have root access, a $su #echo all /proc/yaffs #cat /proc/yaffs would be optimal. This should give a fair amount of debugging info for system, userdata, and cache. If you post that up here, I should be able to give it a shot. On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 3:54 PM, Joel Knighton joel.knigh...@gmail.com wrote: Okay, someone who can replicate this problem, can you perform a cat /proc/yaffs and then post the output here. Curious to see the YAFFS debugging info. On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Jean-Baptiste Queru j...@google.com wrote: When I tried to reproduce it a few months ago I think that I was able to reproduce it without such a shortcut, but I might be wrong. JBQ On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:42 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: You might want to check whether this is related to having a shortcut of the app on the home screen. I have a hunch it is. Cheers On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 11:39 PM, Jean-Baptiste Queru j...@google.com wrote: There is a bug somewhere (it's assigned to me for investigation) where the system process keeps apk files open after they get unlinked in some scenario close to what you mention (install, launch, uninstall), which can then trigger the yaffs2 leak bug. JBQ On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 1:35 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks. A little bit more info about that bug - I *am* experiencing it again. It *is* related to re-installs of one and the same application over and over again. I reinstalled my app maybe ~20 times today and slowly my ~70 went to 63 MB. My app is 2MB so I have to have ~68MB but I don't. I noticed the browser took 2MB and deleted them. However, the free memory increased by ONE MB. WTF is going on here? Hurray! :) I did the battery pull and apparently I've hit the right moment to pull the battery. My memory increased from 64 to 69 MB.
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 12:05 AM, Disconnect dc.disconn...@gmail.com wrote: Why not? Its available to anyone with a g1 these days (if you are willing to wipe out your data, which it sounds like you have to do occasionally anyway) http://tinyurl.com/g1rc30 On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 5:00 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: I guess by you you don't mean me - I don't have root access. BTW, I just found another bug, which is very weird but I'll send it in a new post. Until today I didn't have the need to have root access :) Even now I don't *need* to have one, but *will* downgrade to RC29 when I have some spare time. Cheers, Stoyan --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
Beautiful. It does appear to be nUnlinkedFiles in userdata causing the problem after continual uninstall/reinstall (my phone is at 30k after infrequent installations, I notice yours is at 5k after a fresh install/battery trick). Working on a shell script that could potentially remedy this problem, but this is obviously not an optimal solution. On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 4:08 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.comwrote: On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 12:05 AM, Disconnect dc.disconn...@gmail.com wrote: Why not? Its available to anyone with a g1 these days (if you are willing to wipe out your data, which it sounds like you have to do occasionally anyway) http://tinyurl.com/g1rc30 On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 5:00 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: I guess by you you don't mean me - I don't have root access. BTW, I just found another bug, which is very weird but I'll send it in a new post. Until today I didn't have the need to have root access :) Even now I don't *need* to have one, but *will* downgrade to RC29 when I have some spare time. Cheers, Stoyan -- Joel Knighton --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 4:54 PM, Joel Knighton joel.knigh...@gmail.comwrote: Okay, someone who can replicate this problem, can you perform a cat /proc/yaffs and then post the output here. Curious to see the YAFFS debugging info. I don't have the output handy, but I went from ~12K unlinked files to ~2K. This makes a difference. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
Here is some more information on what's happening. There is a problem in yaffs2 where unlinked files are not removed from a check-pointed filesystem. Whenever Android sleeps, it check-points the filesystem. When you uninstall an app the files are unlinked. If the device then goes to sleep before the unlinked files are actually removed, they won't be. The proper way to work around this it to shut down your phone by holding down the end call button until you get a dialog asking to shut down your phone. Turn your phone back on. BEFORE your phone can sleep after it reboot, shut it down again. This will clean your unlinked files. This works because when the system starts it has no check-points in the filesystem and one won't be created if the system doesn't sleep. The unlinked files are actually removed then when the file system is mounted or unmounted (I'm not sure which it actually is). Cheers, Justin Android Team @ Google On Jan 12, 1:56 pm, Greg White debauchedsl...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 12, 2009 at 4:54 PM, Joel Knighton joel.knigh...@gmail.comwrote: Okay, someone who can replicate this problem, can you perform a cat /proc/yaffs and then post the output here. Curious to see the YAFFS debugging info. I don't have the output handy, but I went from ~12K unlinked files to ~2K. This makes a difference. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 1:46 AM, Justin (Google Employee) j...@google.com wrote: Here is some more information on what's happening. There is a problem in yaffs2 where unlinked files are not removed from a check-pointed filesystem. Whenever Android sleeps, it check-points the filesystem. When you uninstall an app the files are unlinked. If the device then goes to sleep before the unlinked files are actually removed, they won't be. The proper way to work around this it to shut down your phone by holding down the end call button until you get a dialog asking to shut down your phone. Turn your phone back on. BEFORE your phone can sleep after it reboot, shut it down again. This will clean your unlinked files. Come again, I'm not sure understand that part. Are these the steps for the workaround? 1. Shutdown phone 2. Turn on phone 3. Unlock SIM card, wait for home screen to appear (do I need that?) 4. Shutdown phone 5. Turn on phone, and files will be deleted Thanks, Stoyan --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
Yes, your understanding is correct. Yes, you will need to unlock the screen and wait for the home scree to appear before shutting the phone down the second time. Shutting the phone down is better than pulling the battery. Cheers, Justin Android Team @ Google On Jan 12, 4:22 pm, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 1:46 AM, Justin (Google Employee) j...@google.com wrote: Here is some more information on what's happening. There is a problem in yaffs2 where unlinked files are not removed from a check-pointed filesystem. Whenever Android sleeps, it check-points the filesystem. When you uninstall an app the files are unlinked. If the device then goes to sleep before the unlinked files are actually removed, they won't be. The proper way to work around this it to shut down your phone by holding down the end call button until you get a dialog asking to shut down your phone. Turn your phone back on. BEFORE your phone can sleep after it reboot, shut it down again. This will clean your unlinked files. Come again, I'm not sure understand that part. Are these the steps for the workaround? 1. Shutdown phone 2. Turn on phone 3. Unlock SIM card, wait for home screen to appear (do I need that?) 4. Shutdown phone 5. Turn on phone, and files will be deleted Thanks, Stoyan --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 2:25 AM, Justin (Google Employee) j...@google.com wrote: Yes, your understanding is correct. Yes, you will need to unlock the screen and wait for the home scree to appear before shutting the phone down the second time. Shutting the phone down is better than pulling the battery. Justin, God bless you! Now go and find that dev who introduced the bug and make something painful to him :) Can't thank you enough - beats the battery pull! :) Cheers, Stoyan --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
Well, I don't think this is really a bug in the traditional sense, but an adverse interaction between two pieces of code. The phone should checkpoint the filesystem when it goes to sleep, just in case. The filesystem should probably also not worry about cleanup on checkpointed filesystem, because in the usual case its wasteful. So, here we get an unexpected result when two optimizations meet. Cheers, Justin Android Team @ Google On Jan 12, 4:30 pm, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jan 13, 2009 at 2:25 AM, Justin (Google Employee) j...@google.com wrote: Yes, your understanding is correct. Yes, you will need to unlock the screen and wait for the home scree to appear before shutting the phone down the second time. Shutting the phone down is better than pulling the battery. Justin, God bless you! Now go and find that dev who introduced the bug and make something painful to him :) Can't thank you enough - beats the battery pull! :) Cheers, Stoyan --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.comwrote: Is there *anyone* who'll dare to tell me there's no bug in Android? Why would anyone claim there are no bugs in -any- piece of complicated software? (Except I guess TeX). How the fuck I don't have *anything* installed (besides the pre-installed G1 apps) and my memory is only ONE MB??? Where are the ~70 MBs??? :((( Just to clarify, none of the installed applications are shown to be using a large amount of data? If that is the case, then there are very few places the storage could have gone. First be sure to check in I believe /data/local (may be something else, it's the directory under /data owned by the shell allowing it to place files there). If that is not large, it could be in data/system, but unlikely. -- Dianne Hackborn Android framework engineer hack...@android.com Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have time to provide private support. All such questions should be posted on public forums, where I and others can see and answer them. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
Do you have busybox on the device? If so, I can help you find where the space is gone. With only the included android shell binaries, however, I don't know if I can. On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.comwrote: On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.comwrote: Is there *anyone* who'll dare to tell me there's no bug in Android? Why would anyone claim there are no bugs in -any- piece of complicated software? (Except I guess TeX). How the fuck I don't have *anything* installed (besides the pre-installed G1 apps) and my memory is only ONE MB??? Where are the ~70 MBs??? :((( Just to clarify, none of the installed applications are shown to be using a large amount of data? If that is the case, then there are very few places the storage could have gone. First be sure to check in I believe /data/local (may be something else, it's the directory under /data owned by the shell allowing it to place files there). If that is not large, it could be in data/system, but unlikely. -- Dianne Hackborn Android framework engineer hack...@android.com Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have time to provide private support. All such questions should be posted on public forums, where I and others can see and answer them. -- Joel Knighton --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: BUG, TERRIBLE BUG!!! Re: [android-developers] Re: HELP! (was Re: Low on space)
Okay, Stoyan, if you want to do a ls -l -R and then email it to me ( joel.knigh...@gmail.com) I'll read through it and see if I notice a problem. (You can email straight from the terminal app) On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 8:41 PM, Joel Knighton joel.knigh...@gmail.comwrote: Do you have busybox on the device? If so, I can help you find where the space is gone. With only the included android shell binaries, however, I don't know if I can. On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 8:33 PM, Dianne Hackborn hack...@android.comwrote: On Sun, Jan 11, 2009 at 5:04 PM, Stoyan Damov stoyan.da...@gmail.comwrote: Is there *anyone* who'll dare to tell me there's no bug in Android? Why would anyone claim there are no bugs in -any- piece of complicated software? (Except I guess TeX). How the fuck I don't have *anything* installed (besides the pre-installed G1 apps) and my memory is only ONE MB??? Where are the ~70 MBs??? :((( Just to clarify, none of the installed applications are shown to be using a large amount of data? If that is the case, then there are very few places the storage could have gone. First be sure to check in I believe /data/local (may be something else, it's the directory under /data owned by the shell allowing it to place files there). If that is not large, it could be in data/system, but unlikely. -- Dianne Hackborn Android framework engineer hack...@android.com Note: please don't send private questions to me, as I don't have time to provide private support. All such questions should be posted on public forums, where I and others can see and answer them. -- Joel Knighton -- Joel Knighton --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Android Developers group. To post to this group, send email to android-developers@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to android-developers-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/android-developers?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
