Re: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields
1.* **First, you do not necessarily need to add any DSO fields to use the DSO functionality*. a. correct: but what if you have many servers using DSO against the same server, and we want to see transactions. 2. *Now, what the feature of dev studio should be doing is to test to see if there is an overlay of the form** **in question and if not to create one before it creates the fields. This will be updated.* a. Excellent and thanks. Thanks doug.. On Thu, Nov 10, 2011 at 2:30 PM, Mueller, Doug wrote: > ** > > Patrick, > > ** ** > > Let's take a look at your DSO scenario. > > ** ** > > First, you do not necessarily need to add any DSO fields to use the DSO > functionality. Many customers do > > not add any of the DSO fields. There is specific functionality for DSO > where some additional fields are > > needed. > > ** ** > > So, for many customers, there is no issue and no change to the forms or > anything. > > ** ** > > For your situation, you need one or more of the DSO fields, so you go to > Dev Studio to add them. There > > is a feature there to help. > > ** ** > > Concerning overlays, where should the fields be added. Well, you are > changing the definition from the > > base definition to something for you by adding some new fields. Even > though the system is helping > > with that, it is what is happening. So, the fields are going to be added > to the overlay layer. > > ** ** > > You want it to work that way because you want those fields to stay in > place after an upgrade of the > > form they are being added to. By the fields being added to the overlay > layer, they are protected from > > the upgrade and will remain in place. > > ** ** > > So far, so good. > > ** ** > > Now, you go to the feature of Dev Studio to help add the fields, select > the option, say go, and have a > > problem. > > ** ** > > This is indeed an error in Dev Studio. This special function around > adding DSO fields was not updated > > to correctly behave with overlays in place. This has been put on the "to > fix" list. > > ** ** > > Now, the workaround is pretty straight-forward. > > ** ** > > You have to create an overlay for the form. > > Then, go to the option that adds the fields and select the option you want > and say add the fields. It will > > happily do the work and they will show up on your form as custom fields > and you will be up and > > configured to run just fine. > > ** ** > > Now, what the feature of dev studio should be doing is to test to see if > there is an overlay of the form > > in question and if not to create one before it creates the fields. This > will be updated. > > ** ** > > ** ** > > So, at the end of the day here, the overlay feature is in fact doing the > right thing. It is allowing you to > > change forms that come from BMC in a safe and upgrade friendly way. It is > clearly identifying your > > changes (these new fields) from the BMC supplied definition. > > ** ** > > Unfortunately, a helper function that saves you time and effort when > adding DSO fields to a form did > > not get updated correctly to build the form overlay to allow the custom > field additions. > > ** ** > > ** ** > > I hope this note helps explain a bit the way the overlay functionality > works and why it is useful for > > situations like this capability and why it provides significant power and > value to the solution. > > ** ** > > And, explains a bit of a miss in a supporting feature that we need to > correct to make it seamlessly work > > the way it should.**** > > ** ** > > Finally, in the mean time, provides a workaround you can use (create the > form overlay yourself) to move > > forward today. > > ** ** > > Doug Mueller > > ** ** > > *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: > arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *patrick zandi > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 08, 2011 11:41 AM > > *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG > *Subject:* Re: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields > > ** ** > > ** Well if you do DSO you have to change the form to get the DSO fields > into the FORM... > So I do not know where you go with that... > > > > On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Easter, David > wrote: > > ** > > Primary reason is that you shouldn’t be modifying quite a few forms… Best > practice recommendation is: > >
Re: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields
Patrick, Let's take a look at your DSO scenario. First, you do not necessarily need to add any DSO fields to use the DSO functionality. Many customers do not add any of the DSO fields. There is specific functionality for DSO where some additional fields are needed. So, for many customers, there is no issue and no change to the forms or anything. For your situation, you need one or more of the DSO fields, so you go to Dev Studio to add them. There is a feature there to help. Concerning overlays, where should the fields be added. Well, you are changing the definition from the base definition to something for you by adding some new fields. Even though the system is helping with that, it is what is happening. So, the fields are going to be added to the overlay layer. You want it to work that way because you want those fields to stay in place after an upgrade of the form they are being added to. By the fields being added to the overlay layer, they are protected from the upgrade and will remain in place. So far, so good. Now, you go to the feature of Dev Studio to help add the fields, select the option, say go, and have a problem. This is indeed an error in Dev Studio. This special function around adding DSO fields was not updated to correctly behave with overlays in place. This has been put on the "to fix" list. Now, the workaround is pretty straight-forward. You have to create an overlay for the form. Then, go to the option that adds the fields and select the option you want and say add the fields. It will happily do the work and they will show up on your form as custom fields and you will be up and configured to run just fine. Now, what the feature of dev studio should be doing is to test to see if there is an overlay of the form in question and if not to create one before it creates the fields. This will be updated. So, at the end of the day here, the overlay feature is in fact doing the right thing. It is allowing you to change forms that come from BMC in a safe and upgrade friendly way. It is clearly identifying your changes (these new fields) from the BMC supplied definition. Unfortunately, a helper function that saves you time and effort when adding DSO fields to a form did not get updated correctly to build the form overlay to allow the custom field additions. I hope this note helps explain a bit the way the overlay functionality works and why it is useful for situations like this capability and why it provides significant power and value to the solution. And, explains a bit of a miss in a supporting feature that we need to correct to make it seamlessly work the way it should. Finally, in the mean time, provides a workaround you can use (create the form overlay yourself) to move forward today. Doug Mueller From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of patrick zandi Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 11:41 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields ** Well if you do DSO you have to change the form to get the DSO fields into the FORM... So I do not know where you go with that... On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Easter, David mailto:david_eas...@bmc.com>> wrote: ** Primary reason is that you shouldn't be modifying quite a few forms... Best practice recommendation is: 1. Utilize the OOTB products as delivered as much as possible. 2. If a change in functionality is needed, add to the application - not modify. Create new fields and workflow rather than modifying existing objects. 3. If and only if you cannot achieve desired capabilities by extending the application, then utilize overlays to modify the provided BMC object. In addition, were overlays provided OOTB, then you'd have hundreds (if not thousands) of overlays that are exactly the same as the base objects. Since the goal is to have overlays only for those objects that are modified (in fact, best practice is to delete any overlays that are not needed), the value of overlays would be diminished. Overlays should be there only for objects that are modified so that they are kept to a minimum and quickly identifiable. -David J. Easter Manager of Product Management, Remedy Platform BMC Software, Inc. The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc. My voluntary participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG<mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG>] On Behalf Of patrick zandi Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 11:18 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG<mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG> Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields ** Dumb Question: so If you alw
Re: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields
Excellent... I see a future change then.. On Wed, Nov 9, 2011 at 12:42 PM, Easter, David wrote: > ** > > Since the fields you are adding would be seen as “custom” fields (i.e. not > provided out of the box as a base object from BMC), the form will need to > be overlaid, yes. We can certainly consider enhancing that process so that > the form is overlaid in a more automatic manner when adding a custom field > like DSO. > > ** ** > > -David J. Easter > > Manager of Product Management, Remedy Platform > > BMC Software, Inc. > > > > The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in > this E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc. My > voluntary participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a > spokesperson, liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, > Inc. > > ** ** > > *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: > arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *patrick zandi > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 08, 2011 11:57 AM > > *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG > *Subject:* Re: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields > > ** ** > > ** Dave: > Question: is there a way to add DSO fields into a form without overlays? > IF not then why were are not these fields added by BMC and made the core > before I have to do an overlay? > DSO is bmc's product, so I think this might just have been an overlook in > the release of the product? > What about AIE? is AIE in the same boat? > What about IBRSD? is this in the same boat? just asking.. > > I could use a little clarification.. > > > > On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 2:41 PM, patrick zandi > wrote: > > Well if you do DSO you have to change the form to get the DSO fields into > the FORM... > So I do not know where you go with that... > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Easter, David > wrote: > > ** > > Primary reason is that you shouldn’t be modifying quite a few forms… Best > practice recommendation is: > > > > 1. Utilize the OOTB products as delivered as much as possible. > > 2. If a change in functionality is needed, *add* to the application > – not modify. Create new fields and workflow rather than modifying > existing objects. > > 3. If and only if you cannot achieve desired capabilities by > extending the application, then utilize overlays to modify the provided BMC > object. > > > > In addition, were overlays provided OOTB, then you’d have hundreds (if not > thousands) of overlays that are exactly the same as the base objects. > Since the goal is to have overlays only for those objects that are modified > (in fact, best practice is to delete any overlays that are not needed), the > value of overlays would be diminished. Overlays should be there only for > objects that are modified so that they are kept to a minimum and quickly > identifiable. > > > > -David J. Easter > > Manager of Product Management, Remedy Platform > > BMC Software, Inc. > > > > The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in > this E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc. My > voluntary participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a > spokesperson, liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, > Inc. > > > > *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: > arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *patrick zandi > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 08, 2011 11:18 AM > > > *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG > *Subject:* Re: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields > > > > ** > > Dumb Question: so If you always have to do this:: Why didn't bmc in its > wisdom create all forms with overlays automatically, since that is all you > can change.. I am modifying quiet a few forms and my thinking cap is > thinking 8-) > > > > > -- > Patrick Zandi > > > _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ > > _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ > > > > > > -- > Patrick Zandi > > > > > -- > Patrick Zandi > _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ > _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ > -- Patrick Zandi ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are"
Re: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields
Since the fields you are adding would be seen as "custom" fields (i.e. not provided out of the box as a base object from BMC), the form will need to be overlaid, yes. We can certainly consider enhancing that process so that the form is overlaid in a more automatic manner when adding a custom field like DSO. -David J. Easter Manager of Product Management, Remedy Platform BMC Software, Inc. The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc. My voluntary participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of patrick zandi Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 11:57 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields ** Dave: Question: is there a way to add DSO fields into a form without overlays? IF not then why were are not these fields added by BMC and made the core before I have to do an overlay? DSO is bmc's product, so I think this might just have been an overlook in the release of the product? What about AIE? is AIE in the same boat? What about IBRSD? is this in the same boat? just asking.. I could use a little clarification.. On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 2:41 PM, patrick zandi mailto:remedy...@gmail.com>> wrote: Well if you do DSO you have to change the form to get the DSO fields into the FORM... So I do not know where you go with that... On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Easter, David mailto:david_eas...@bmc.com>> wrote: ** Primary reason is that you shouldn't be modifying quite a few forms... Best practice recommendation is: 1. Utilize the OOTB products as delivered as much as possible. 2. If a change in functionality is needed, add to the application - not modify. Create new fields and workflow rather than modifying existing objects. 3. If and only if you cannot achieve desired capabilities by extending the application, then utilize overlays to modify the provided BMC object. In addition, were overlays provided OOTB, then you'd have hundreds (if not thousands) of overlays that are exactly the same as the base objects. Since the goal is to have overlays only for those objects that are modified (in fact, best practice is to delete any overlays that are not needed), the value of overlays would be diminished. Overlays should be there only for objects that are modified so that they are kept to a minimum and quickly identifiable. -David J. Easter Manager of Product Management, Remedy Platform BMC Software, Inc. The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc. My voluntary participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG<mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG>] On Behalf Of patrick zandi Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 11:18 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG<mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG> Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields ** Dumb Question: so If you always have to do this:: Why didn't bmc in its wisdom create all forms with overlays automatically, since that is all you can change.. I am modifying quiet a few forms and my thinking cap is thinking 8-) -- Patrick Zandi _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com<http://www.wwrug.com> ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com<http://www.wwrug.com> ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ -- Patrick Zandi -- Patrick Zandi _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are"
Re: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields
Not Trying to rub salt in the wounds, but the reason we are doing DSO for these 25 forms or so .. is to import the SRM's 1150 or so we have into a new 7.6.04 system from a 7.6.00 system (import Export tools do not work) We have been working with BMC for over45 days and no answer.. Getting duplicates, triplicates, 4, 5, 7 redundent records in the exports:: and they do not have an answer yet.. We tried Several things, but still a no go.. Unique records on the new platform Fail the import, but the export is putting dup's in.. So we did the next step: took a database import and then did an upgrade to the 7.6.04 sp1 and then expected to be able to export it properly.. nope .. did not work either.. so NOW we attempting a DSO -- Idea of our own.. and so far we are progressing nicely.. ... So the 2 Recommended methods by BMC failed so far:: and now we are going about it in parallel "our own way"... If we do this right We can somewhat document it.. and then you all can benefit.. That is ... If it works. On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 4:39 PM, patrick zandi wrote: > as a matter a fact when we DSO all incidents, Changes and Assets.. > How is this gunna work. > > That will bring my numbers up a little.. > > Is there a special Procedure for these ? > Considering this is for an Important BMC client... > > > On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 2:57 PM, patrick zandi wrote: > >> Dave: >> Question: is there a way to add DSO fields into a form without overlays? >> IF not then why were are not these fields added by BMC and made the core >> before I have to do an overlay? >> DSO is bmc's product, so I think this might just have been an overlook in >> the release of the product? >> What about AIE? is AIE in the same boat? >> What about IBRSD? is this in the same boat? just asking.. >> >> I could use a little clarification.. >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 2:41 PM, patrick zandi wrote: >> >>> Well if you do DSO you have to change the form to get the DSO fields >>> into the FORM... >>> So I do not know where you go with that... >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Easter, David wrote: >>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> Primary reason is that you shouldn’t be modifying quite a few forms… >>>> Best practice recommendation is: >>>> >>>> ** ** >>>> >>>> **1. **Utilize the OOTB products as delivered as much as >>>> possible. >>>> >>>> **2. **If a change in functionality is needed, *add* to the >>>> application – not modify. Create new fields and workflow rather than >>>> modifying existing objects. >>>> >>>> **3. **If and only if you cannot achieve desired capabilities by >>>> extending the application, then utilize overlays to modify the provided BMC >>>> object. >>>> >>>> ** ** >>>> >>>> In addition, were overlays provided OOTB, then you’d have hundreds (if >>>> not thousands) of overlays that are exactly the same as the base objects. >>>> Since the goal is to have overlays only for those objects that are modified >>>> (in fact, best practice is to delete any overlays that are not needed), the >>>> value of overlays would be diminished. Overlays should be there only for >>>> objects that are modified so that they are kept to a minimum and quickly >>>> identifiable. >>>> >>>> ** ** >>>> >>>> -David J. Easter >>>> >>>> Manager of Product Management, Remedy Platform >>>> >>>> BMC Software, Inc.**** >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed >>>> in this E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc. My >>>> voluntary participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a >>>> spokesperson, liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, >>>> Inc. >>>> >>>> ** ** >>>> >>>> *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: >>>> arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *patrick zandi >>>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 08, 2011 11:18 AM >>>> >>>> *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG >>>> *Subject:* Re: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields >>>> >>>> ** ** >>>> >>>> ** >>>> >>>> Dumb Question: so If you always have to do this:: Why didn't bmc in >>>> its wisdom create all forms with overlays automatically, since that is all >>>> you can change.. I am modifying quiet a few forms and my thinking cap is >>>> thinking 8-) >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> Patrick Zandi >>>> >>>> _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ >>>> >>>> _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Patrick Zandi >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Patrick Zandi >> > > > > -- > Patrick Zandi > -- Patrick Zandi ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are"
Re: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields
as a matter a fact when we DSO all incidents, Changes and Assets.. How is this gunna work. That will bring my numbers up a little.. Is there a special Procedure for these ? Considering this is for an Important BMC client... On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 2:57 PM, patrick zandi wrote: > Dave: > Question: is there a way to add DSO fields into a form without overlays? > IF not then why were are not these fields added by BMC and made the core > before I have to do an overlay? > DSO is bmc's product, so I think this might just have been an overlook in > the release of the product? > What about AIE? is AIE in the same boat? > What about IBRSD? is this in the same boat? just asking.. > > I could use a little clarification.. > > > On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 2:41 PM, patrick zandi wrote: > >> Well if you do DSO you have to change the form to get the DSO fields into >> the FORM... >> So I do not know where you go with that... >> >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Easter, David wrote: >> >>> ** >>> >>> Primary reason is that you shouldn’t be modifying quite a few forms… >>> Best practice recommendation is: >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> **1. **Utilize the OOTB products as delivered as much as >>> possible. >>> >>> **2. **If a change in functionality is needed, *add* to the >>> application – not modify. Create new fields and workflow rather than >>> modifying existing objects. >>> >>> **3. **If and only if you cannot achieve desired capabilities by >>> extending the application, then utilize overlays to modify the provided BMC >>> object. >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> In addition, were overlays provided OOTB, then you’d have hundreds (if >>> not thousands) of overlays that are exactly the same as the base objects. >>> Since the goal is to have overlays only for those objects that are modified >>> (in fact, best practice is to delete any overlays that are not needed), the >>> value of overlays would be diminished. Overlays should be there only for >>> objects that are modified so that they are kept to a minimum and quickly >>> identifiable. >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> -David J. Easter >>> >>> Manager of Product Management, Remedy Platform >>> >>> BMC Software, Inc. >>> >>> >>> >>> The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed >>> in this E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc. My >>> voluntary participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a >>> spokesperson, liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, >>> Inc. >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: >>> arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *patrick zandi >>> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 08, 2011 11:18 AM >>> >>> *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG >>> *Subject:* Re: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields >>> >>> ** ** >>> >>> ** >>> >>> Dumb Question: so If you always have to do this:: Why didn't bmc in its >>> wisdom create all forms with overlays automatically, since that is all you >>> can change.. I am modifying quiet a few forms and my thinking cap is >>> thinking 8-) >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Patrick Zandi >>> >>> _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ >>> >>> _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Patrick Zandi >> > > > > -- > Patrick Zandi > -- Patrick Zandi ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are"
Re: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields
Dave: Question: is there a way to add DSO fields into a form without overlays? IF not then why were are not these fields added by BMC and made the core before I have to do an overlay? DSO is bmc's product, so I think this might just have been an overlook in the release of the product? What about AIE? is AIE in the same boat? What about IBRSD? is this in the same boat? just asking.. I could use a little clarification.. On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 2:41 PM, patrick zandi wrote: > Well if you do DSO you have to change the form to get the DSO fields into > the FORM... > So I do not know where you go with that... > > > > On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Easter, David wrote: > >> ** >> >> Primary reason is that you shouldn’t be modifying quite a few forms… Best >> practice recommendation is: >> >> ** ** >> >> **1. **Utilize the OOTB products as delivered as much as >> possible. >> >> **2. **If a change in functionality is needed, *add* to the >> application – not modify. Create new fields and workflow rather than >> modifying existing objects. >> >> **3. **If and only if you cannot achieve desired capabilities by >> extending the application, then utilize overlays to modify the provided BMC >> object. >> >> ** ** >> >> In addition, were overlays provided OOTB, then you’d have hundreds (if >> not thousands) of overlays that are exactly the same as the base objects. >> Since the goal is to have overlays only for those objects that are modified >> (in fact, best practice is to delete any overlays that are not needed), the >> value of overlays would be diminished. Overlays should be there only for >> objects that are modified so that they are kept to a minimum and quickly >> identifiable. >> >> ** ** >> >> -David J. Easter >> >> Manager of Product Management, Remedy Platform >> >> BMC Software, Inc. >> >> >> >> The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in >> this E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc. My >> voluntary participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a >> spokesperson, liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, >> Inc. >> >> ** ** >> >> *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: >> arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *patrick zandi >> *Sent:* Tuesday, November 08, 2011 11:18 AM >> >> *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG >> *Subject:* Re: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields >> >> ** ** >> >> ** >> >> Dumb Question: so If you always have to do this:: Why didn't bmc in its >> wisdom create all forms with overlays automatically, since that is all you >> can change.. I am modifying quiet a few forms and my thinking cap is >> thinking 8-) >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Patrick Zandi >> >> _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ >> >> _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ >> > > > > -- > Patrick Zandi > -- Patrick Zandi ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are"
Re: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields
Well if you do DSO you have to change the form to get the DSO fields into the FORM... So I do not know where you go with that... On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 2:29 PM, Easter, David wrote: > ** > > Primary reason is that you shouldn’t be modifying quite a few forms… Best > practice recommendation is: > > ** ** > > **1. **Utilize the OOTB products as delivered as much as possible. > > > **2. **If a change in functionality is needed, *add* to the > application – not modify. Create new fields and workflow rather than > modifying existing objects. > > **3. **If and only if you cannot achieve desired capabilities by > extending the application, then utilize overlays to modify the provided BMC > object. > > ** ** > > In addition, were overlays provided OOTB, then you’d have hundreds (if not > thousands) of overlays that are exactly the same as the base objects. > Since the goal is to have overlays only for those objects that are modified > (in fact, best practice is to delete any overlays that are not needed), the > value of overlays would be diminished. Overlays should be there only for > objects that are modified so that they are kept to a minimum and quickly > identifiable. > > ** ** > > -David J. Easter > > Manager of Product Management, Remedy Platform > > BMC Software, Inc. > > > > The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in > this E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc. My > voluntary participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a > spokesperson, liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, > Inc. > > ** ** > > *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: > arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *patrick zandi > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 08, 2011 11:18 AM > > *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG > *Subject:* Re: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields > > ** ** > > ** > > Dumb Question: so If you always have to do this:: Why didn't bmc in its > wisdom create all forms with overlays automatically, since that is all you > can change.. I am modifying quiet a few forms and my thinking cap is > thinking 8-) > > > > > -- > Patrick Zandi > > _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ > > _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ > -- Patrick Zandi ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are"
Re: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields
Chews up schema IDs? 3,097 overlaid forms versus only those you need (I have a fair amount of customizations, but only overlaid 21 forms). I'm okay with less is better when it comes to overlays - which is why I discarded the BPCU utility which wants to overlay everything in sight. Christopher Strauss, Ph.D. Call Tracking Administration Manager University of North Texas Computing & IT Center http://itsm.unt.edu/ From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of patrick zandi Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 1:18 PM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields ** Dumb Question: so If you always have to do this:: Why didn't bmc in its wisdom create all forms with overlays automatically, since that is all you can change.. I am modifying quiet a few forms and my thinking cap is thinking 8-) -- Patrick Zandi _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are"
Re: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields
Primary reason is that you shouldn't be modifying quite a few forms... Best practice recommendation is: 1. Utilize the OOTB products as delivered as much as possible. 2. If a change in functionality is needed, add to the application - not modify. Create new fields and workflow rather than modifying existing objects. 3. If and only if you cannot achieve desired capabilities by extending the application, then utilize overlays to modify the provided BMC object. In addition, were overlays provided OOTB, then you'd have hundreds (if not thousands) of overlays that are exactly the same as the base objects. Since the goal is to have overlays only for those objects that are modified (in fact, best practice is to delete any overlays that are not needed), the value of overlays would be diminished. Overlays should be there only for objects that are modified so that they are kept to a minimum and quickly identifiable. -David J. Easter Manager of Product Management, Remedy Platform BMC Software, Inc. The opinions, statements, and/or suggested courses of action expressed in this E-mail do not necessarily reflect those of BMC Software, Inc. My voluntary participation in this forum is not intended to convey a role as a spokesperson, liaison or public relations representative for BMC Software, Inc. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of patrick zandi Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 11:18 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields ** Dumb Question: so If you always have to do this:: Why didn't bmc in its wisdom create all forms with overlays automatically, since that is all you can change.. I am modifying quiet a few forms and my thinking cap is thinking 8-) -- Patrick Zandi _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are"
Re: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields
Dumb Question: so If you always have to do this:: Why didn't bmc in its wisdom create all forms with overlays automatically, since that is all you can change.. I am modifying quiet a few forms and my thinking cap is thinking 8-) -- Patrick Zandi ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are"
Re: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields
J From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of patrick zandi Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 11:24 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields ** sorry: was not attempting to state it is junk: I am using the work in the sense of a Pile, package, stuff... I should have used stuff.. it does sound derogatory.. was not meaning to shoot it down .. I know the concept (future) will be modified, and it will be cool, if we can overlay like a Page field of Permissions .. that will be cook. On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 1:13 PM, LJ LongWing wrote: ** The overlay concept isn't really junk.it's just immature. I predict that 5 years from today that customizers will LOVE the ability to upgrade from version x to version y without losing everything. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of patrick zandi Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 10:48 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields ** Oh shoot: that is correct my bad... I am not sure I am liking this overlay junk.. Especially after seeing a discussion: no indexes possible on the added fields.. On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:12 AM, LJ LongWing wrote: ** Patrick, Being you are on 7.6.4.is the object you are trying to edit a 'Base' object?are you in Base mode, or Best Practice mode?if it's a base object, and you are in Best Practice, in order to change anything you must create an overlay of the object to be able to modify it.or convert it to a Custom object.but that's a different subject altogether. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of patrick zandi Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 8:41 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields ** This is a quick question I am sure:: I do not have "Disable Admin Functions" selected so that is not it. I have a devstudio open and wanted to add DSO fields to a form, but it is not selectable to add anything. Also if I go to properties: I am seeing all selectables as read only.. -- Patrick Zandi _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ -- Patrick Zandi _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ -- Patrick Zandi _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are"
Re: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields
sorry: was not attempting to state it is junk: I am using the work in the sense of a Pile, package, stuff... I should have used stuff.. it does sound derogatory.. was not meaning to shoot it down .. I know the concept (future) will be modified, and it will be cool, if we can overlay like a Page field of Permissions .. that will be cook. On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 1:13 PM, LJ LongWing wrote: > ** > > The overlay concept isn’t really junk…it’s just immature. I predict that > 5 years from today that customizers will LOVE the ability to upgrade from > version x to version y without losing everything. > > ** ** > > *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: > arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *patrick zandi > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 08, 2011 10:48 AM > *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG > *Subject:* Re: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields > > ** ** > > ** Oh shoot: that is correct my bad... I am not sure I am liking this > overlay junk.. > Especially after seeing a discussion: no indexes possible on the added > fields.. > > > > On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:12 AM, LJ LongWing > wrote: > > ** > > Patrick, > > Being you are on 7.6.4…is the object you are trying to edit a ‘Base’ > object?are you in Base mode, or Best Practice mode?if it’s a base > object, and you are in Best Practice, in order to change anything you must > create an overlay of the object to be able to modify it…or convert it to a > Custom object…but that’s a different subject altogether. > > > > *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: > arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *patrick zandi > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 08, 2011 8:41 AM > *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG > *Subject:* 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields > > > > ** This is a quick question I am sure:: I do not have "Disable Admin > Functions" selected so that is not it. > > > I have a devstudio open and wanted to add DSO fields to a form, but it is > not selectable to add anything. > > Also if I go to properties: I am seeing all selectables as read only.. > > > -- > Patrick Zandi > > _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ > > _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ > > > > > -- > Patrick Zandi > _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ > _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ > -- Patrick Zandi ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are"
Re: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields
The overlay concept isn't really junk.it's just immature. I predict that 5 years from today that customizers will LOVE the ability to upgrade from version x to version y without losing everything. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of patrick zandi Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 10:48 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: Re: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields ** Oh shoot: that is correct my bad... I am not sure I am liking this overlay junk.. Especially after seeing a discussion: no indexes possible on the added fields.. On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:12 AM, LJ LongWing wrote: ** Patrick, Being you are on 7.6.4.is the object you are trying to edit a 'Base' object?are you in Base mode, or Best Practice mode?if it's a base object, and you are in Best Practice, in order to change anything you must create an overlay of the object to be able to modify it.or convert it to a Custom object.but that's a different subject altogether. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of patrick zandi Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 8:41 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields ** This is a quick question I am sure:: I do not have "Disable Admin Functions" selected so that is not it. I have a devstudio open and wanted to add DSO fields to a form, but it is not selectable to add anything. Also if I go to properties: I am seeing all selectables as read only.. -- Patrick Zandi _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ -- Patrick Zandi _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are"
Re: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields
Oh shoot: that is correct my bad... I am not sure I am liking this overlay junk.. Especially after seeing a discussion: no indexes possible on the added fields.. On Tue, Nov 8, 2011 at 11:12 AM, LJ LongWing wrote: > ** > > Patrick, > > Being you are on 7.6.4…is the object you are trying to edit a ‘Base’ > object?are you in Base mode, or Best Practice mode?if it’s a base > object, and you are in Best Practice, in order to change anything you must > create an overlay of the object to be able to modify it…or convert it to a > Custom object…but that’s a different subject altogether. > > ** ** > > *From:* Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto: > arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] *On Behalf Of *patrick zandi > *Sent:* Tuesday, November 08, 2011 8:41 AM > *To:* arslist@ARSLIST.ORG > *Subject:* 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields > > ** ** > > ** This is a quick question I am sure:: I do not have "Disable Admin > Functions" selected so that is not it. > > I have a devstudio open and wanted to add DSO fields to a form, but it is > not selectable to add anything. > > Also if I go to properties: I am seeing all selectables as read only.. > > > -- > Patrick Zandi > _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ > > _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ -- Patrick Zandi ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are"
Re: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields
Patrick, Being you are on 7.6.4.is the object you are trying to edit a 'Base' object?are you in Base mode, or Best Practice mode?if it's a base object, and you are in Best Practice, in order to change anything you must create an overlay of the object to be able to modify it.or convert it to a Custom object.but that's a different subject altogether. From: Action Request System discussion list(ARSList) [mailto:arslist@ARSLIST.ORG] On Behalf Of patrick zandi Sent: Tuesday, November 08, 2011 8:41 AM To: arslist@ARSLIST.ORG Subject: 7.6.04 - dev studio (read only) cannot add fields ** This is a quick question I am sure:: I do not have "Disable Admin Functions" selected so that is not it. I have a devstudio open and wanted to add DSO fields to a form, but it is not selectable to add anything. Also if I go to properties: I am seeing all selectables as read only.. -- Patrick Zandi _attend WWRUG12 www.wwrug.com ARSlist: "Where the Answers Are"_ ___ UNSUBSCRIBE or access ARSlist Archives at www.arslist.org attend wwrug12 www.wwrug12.com ARSList: "Where the Answers Are"
