[AsburyPark] Re: A Respsonse to Mr. Vail
Honestly I think this whole debate is a mircocosm of why so little ever really gets fixed in Asbury Park. Jim's got great ideas, but goes so far out of his way to intentionally poke and jab at the rest of the council that he has little to no chance of getting any of his agenda accomplished. His email on the budget committee is a great example of that - whether his statement is true or not it was completely unneccessary and only serves to drive dialog to debates like this one vs. discussion around the budget and this committee which I believe was his actual intent. The others on the council have always had such venom for Jim that they refuse to consider almost anything he says or proposes out of spite rather than based on merit. I am convinced some choose not to not support things they actually agree with simply because Jim proposed them first. If everyone could just step back, check the egos and insults at the door and focus on making this city better so much could get done. But of course we all know that won't happen. Which is too bad. Welcome back to high school everone. Classes are every other Wednesday evenings. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hinge98@ wrote: Honestly, can you blame Jim for being frustrated with the council? And to somehow praise the previous council sounds way off base in my opinion. Let it end. It is has become what I feared and what i cautioned against by going off message. Never let people get confused about what message you are trying to send. if you do, perhaps you are confused as to the message you want to send. We all need to grow up, take a deep breath, take a step back and roll up our collective sleeves. Fighting with each other will ge us nowhere except into fights. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: A Respsonse to Mr. Vail
I am so grateful for Keady. As far as I have been able to tell, he is the only council person who understands that politics is about SERVICE. I can identify with his tendency to poke. Its hard for me not to, but I am quickly realizing that I need to grow up and learn more intelligent ways to serve my community. We could all use some lessons in non violent communication! As for the budget deficit, I am anxious for an intelligent solution from SUFA. I have some crazy ones to throw out in the spirit of brainstorming. I would like to see us throw some ideas back and forth, even if they are kooky... How could AP generate more revenue??? couldn't we all pitch in to a debt reduction effort? what if everyone pitched in ...incomes over 5 100$/year under 10$/year...I know that one will make people pissed, but i certainly get .30/day of pleasure in this city. i think there is a world of ideas that we could explore with open minds and in the spirit of the possible. we need to stop expecting those in power to do it all. we as ordinary joes need to take more action, more responsibility. we don't need to be ashamed, or point fingers. i live beyond my means like many good american consumer, I can't bash anyone for a deficit. we could have fun community fund raisers to get the collectors off our backs..move from the red to the black AND create community... anyway...what is your idea for getting us out of debt? it IS US and it is OUR debt! Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: A Respsonse to Mr. Vail
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why the If it is passed on... IT SHOULD BE PASSED ON. It is everywhere else. I am not saying it should not be passed on. And if we are talking about a municipality pissing away money, yes the house should be put in order. I am for the Budget Committee. However, that being said, while I am sure that part of the problem is pissing away money, part of it is not that simple. While I wish everything were black and white, more oft there are greytones. Consider not the spending side but the revenue side. Consider a hypothetical. Let's say societal and governmental forces outside the municipality act to foment and encourage the ghettoizing (poverty-stricken urban area) of the municipality, or large areas thereof. Sure enough there is enough blame to go around. But we have come to learn that there is no safe haven. The ghetto as it were, follows you to work, follows you to the store, follows you home. There is no escape. And so, I am not so sure that the county, or the state, does not have some responsibility for the conditions here. Should the state and county get a free pass, no? The simple fact of life is that some will have to give more than they receive and others will receive more than they give. As a NYC resident, I know that we pay more taxes to the state and fed than we receive in direct services in return. A fact of life. And for those outside of AP who say no more, get your house in order (as we well should), what price do you put on having all the people and problems you do not want living near you? Is that to be a free service for us to provide? None of us are guiltless. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: A Respsonse to Mr. Vail
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, jwkeady [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Since you (and others) would like some evenhandedness here, It was I that used that phrase, so I will respond. And I preface this all by saying I have always supported your efforts and still do. What i am talking about is mixed messages. The purpose of the Budget Committee is an attempt to get our house in order - not to assess blame. While that process may in fact uncover who is to blame and may result in blame being assessed, I think it is counterproductive to start the blame game at the beginning, or at least in announcing the formation of the committee. Do I know why we are here? Partly yes. Did the promised ratables not materialize? Absolutely. Does part of the blame lie with the council majority? Surely in my view, and I have certainly not been quiet about that over the years. Perhaps I was wrong, but I saw the committee as something separate from any movement to assess blame ont he council majority. Surely they have their faults and anyone or everyone is free to criticize them or try to get them out of office. But for my part, I thought that to include criticism of them in the post about the committee to be inappropriate. Just as I thought Paul was inappropriate to include criticisms of you in his early SUFA posts. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: A Respsonse to Mr. Vail
--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Honestly, can you blame Jim for being frustrated with the council? And to somehow praise the previous council sounds way off base in my opinion. Let it end. It is has become what I feared and what i cautioned against by going off message. Never let people get confused about what message you are trying to send. if you do, perhaps you are confused as to the message you want to send. We all need to grow up, take a deep breath, take a step back and roll up our collective sleeves. Fighting with each other will ge us nowhere except into fights. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: A Respsonse to Mr. Vail
Wise words indeed. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, dfsavgny [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hinge98@ wrote: Honestly, can you blame Jim for being frustrated with the council? And to somehow praise the previous council sounds way off base in my opinion. Let it end. It is has become what I feared and what i cautioned against by going off message. Never let people get confused about what message you are trying to send. if you do, perhaps you are confused as to the message you want to send. We all need to grow up, take a deep breath, take a step back and roll up our collective sleeves. Fighting with each other will ge us nowhere except into fights. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: A Respsonse to Mr. Vail
Honestly, can you blame Jim for being frustrated with the council? And to somehow praise the previous council sounds way off base in my opinion. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Paul Vail [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Jim, Perhaps it is your vendetta against the council majority and the redevelopers that should be put aside in the interest in moving this city forward. This baseless accusation of incompetence on the part of the council followed by your sanctimonious peace closing is enough to turn the stomachs of most people of my ilk. Notwithstanding the shortfalls of the redevelopment agreement, the members of this council and the previous council achieved more for the people of this city than you could ever dream of. Your attempt to exploit the current real estate market to whip up an anti council feeling amongst your constituents is completely transparent - but not surprising. Paul Vail It is important for each of you to know why this committee is so necessary at this point in Asbury Park's development. Because of the failed policies of the Council majority, most specifically in regards to the Waterfront Redevelopment Plan and the Waterfront Redevelopment Agreement, our city is short $8 million dollars in tax revenue to cover our bills for 2007 and it is projected that we will be short $12.5 million dollars in 2008. For those of you who are unaware, by this point in the redevelopment of the waterfront, we should have been close to having 1200 new condominium units (300 each year). To date, we have approximately 40. One cannot blame the most recent market shifts for this lack of performance. This is a matter of incompetence on the part of Asbury Partners and an unwillingness to play hard ball on the part of the Council majority. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, jwkeady james.keady@ wrote: Paul, You need to wake up, put your personal vendetta for me aside, and deal with the facts I have presented. We are currently have an $8 million dollar budget deficit. Next year we will have a $12.5 million dollar budget deficit. If we were in the corporate world, that would mean that we are BANKRUPT. If you invested in a company that went bankrupt, who would you hold accountable? The voting majority of the Board of Directors, that's who. Since you (and others) would like some evenhandedness here, let me offer the following. You were the driving force behind shutting down the homeless shelter and your main argument was that Asbury Park has shouldered the burden of all the other surrounding towns for far too long. You said that it's time that towns like Deal, Avon, Belmar, etc. pull their weight. This is a fair argument. Now, in the same way that you do not want to carry another town's burden, they may feel the same way about us. To use your logic, every town that is helping to pay our bills could be saying, Hey Asbury Park, we are tired of paying for failed policies to the tune of $8 million dollars a year or more. Get your own house in order and stop wasting our hard-earned tax dollars. Given your stance on burden sharing, I would think you would agree with this sentiment. But, unfortunately, you are only evenhanded when it suits your personal agenda Paul. Here is the current state of our pending fiscal crisis. I spoke with a representative from the Department of Community Affairs yesterday at the League of Muncipalities Convention. The person I spoke with confirmed that we will be receiving $8 million in aid for 2008. That leaves us $4.5 million dollars short. Are you ready to make up this difference for us Paul? If it is passed on to the tax payers it will cost on average approximately $1300 more on your tax bill. It is no wonder that we are in the state we are in with people of your ilk believing that honestly stating the facts (regardless of who they implicate) and seeking solutions to our city's most pressing problems is irresponsible. Peace, Councilman Jim Keady Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: A Respsonse to Mr. Vail
Jim, Perhaps it is your vendetta against the council majority and the redevelopers that should be put aside in the interest in moving this city forward. This baseless accusation of incompetence on the part of the council followed by your sanctimonious peace closing is enough to turn the stomachs of most people of my ilk. Notwithstanding the shortfalls of the redevelopment agreement, the members of this council and the previous council achieved more for the people of this city than you could ever dream of. Your attempt to exploit the current real estate market to whip up an anti council feeling amongst your constituents is completely transparent - but not surprising. Paul Vail It is important for each of you to know why this committee is so necessary at this point in Asbury Park's development. Because of the failed policies of the Council majority, most specifically in regards to the Waterfront Redevelopment Plan and the Waterfront Redevelopment Agreement, our city is short $8 million dollars in tax revenue to cover our bills for 2007 and it is projected that we will be short $12.5 million dollars in 2008. For those of you who are unaware, by this point in the redevelopment of the waterfront, we should have been close to having 1200 new condominium units (300 each year). To date, we have approximately 40. One cannot blame the most recent market shifts for this lack of performance. This is a matter of incompetence on the part of Asbury Partners and an unwillingness to play hard ball on the part of the Council majority. --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, jwkeady [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul, You need to wake up, put your personal vendetta for me aside, and deal with the facts I have presented. We are currently have an $8 million dollar budget deficit. Next year we will have a $12.5 million dollar budget deficit. If we were in the corporate world, that would mean that we are BANKRUPT. If you invested in a company that went bankrupt, who would you hold accountable? The voting majority of the Board of Directors, that's who. Since you (and others) would like some evenhandedness here, let me offer the following. You were the driving force behind shutting down the homeless shelter and your main argument was that Asbury Park has shouldered the burden of all the other surrounding towns for far too long. You said that it's time that towns like Deal, Avon, Belmar, etc. pull their weight. This is a fair argument. Now, in the same way that you do not want to carry another town's burden, they may feel the same way about us. To use your logic, every town that is helping to pay our bills could be saying, Hey Asbury Park, we are tired of paying for failed policies to the tune of $8 million dollars a year or more. Get your own house in order and stop wasting our hard-earned tax dollars. Given your stance on burden sharing, I would think you would agree with this sentiment. But, unfortunately, you are only evenhanded when it suits your personal agenda Paul. Here is the current state of our pending fiscal crisis. I spoke with a representative from the Department of Community Affairs yesterday at the League of Muncipalities Convention. The person I spoke with confirmed that we will be receiving $8 million in aid for 2008. That leaves us $4.5 million dollars short. Are you ready to make up this difference for us Paul? If it is passed on to the tax payers it will cost on average approximately $1300 more on your tax bill. It is no wonder that we are in the state we are in with people of your ilk believing that honestly stating the facts (regardless of who they implicate) and seeking solutions to our city's most pressing problems is irresponsible. Peace, Councilman Jim Keady Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: A Respsonse to Mr. Vail
-Jim wrote: .Hey Asbury Park, we are tired of paying for failed policies to the tune of $8 million dollars a year or more. Get your own house in order and stop wasting our hard-earned tax dollars. . confirmed that we will be receiving $8 million in aid for 2008. That leaves us $4.5 million dollars short. ... If it is passed on to the tax payers it will cost on average approximately $1300 more on your tax bill. Why the If it is passed on... IT SHOULD BE PASSED ON. It is everywhere else. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: A Respsonse to Mr. Vail
And for those outside of AP who say no more, get your house in order (as we well should), what price do you put on having all the people and problems you do not want living near you? Is that to be a free service for us to provide? None of us are guiltless. Agreed that we all have to share to resolve our guilt... Can someone put a number on those costs in AP? Police, Schools, Health Dept, Special Services etc...? Then the question becomes, are we (the city) GETTING ENOUGH $ to cover these costs?? But you can look at Ocean Township, and the number of apartments and homes that require special services and wonder if Ocean Twp receives enough state/fed aid. This is the biggest problem facing every muni in NJ - how much do we have to charge the residents to run the thing? That's why every department has to run as a profit center - charge for it's services and track expenses. That's also another a good reason where things like tax collection, building inspections, courts all have to be regionalized. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[AsburyPark] Re: A Respsonse to Mr. Vail
This Poem is enscribed on the Statue of Liberty This poem is enscribed on a tabled within the statue. Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame. With conquering limbs astride from land to land; Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand A mighty woman with a torch, whose flame Is the imprisoned lightning, and her name Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame. Keep, ancient lands, your storied pomp! cries she With silent lips. Give me your tired, your poor, Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free, The wretched refuse of your teeming shore. Send these, the homeless, tempest-tost to me, I lift my lamp beside the golden door! Emma Lazarus (18491887) But NOT to Asbury Park! Jim, Keep Fighting! I am FOR you and WITH you! Sharon --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, jwkeady [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Paul, You need to wake up, put your personal vendetta for me aside, and deal with the facts I have presented. We are currently have an $8 million dollar budget deficit. Next year we will have a $12.5 million dollar budget deficit. If we were in the corporate world, that would mean that we are BANKRUPT. If you invested in a company that went bankrupt, who would you hold accountable? The voting majority of the Board of Directors, that's who. Since you (and others) would like some evenhandedness here, let me offer the following. You were the driving force behind shutting down the homeless shelter and your main argument was that Asbury Park has shouldered the burden of all the other surrounding towns for far too long. You said that it's time that towns like Deal, Avon, Belmar, etc. pull their weight. This is a fair argument. Now, in the same way that you do not want to carry another town's burden, they may feel the same way about us. To use your logic, every town that is helping to pay our bills could be saying, Hey Asbury Park, we are tired of paying for failed policies to the tune of $8 million dollars a year or more. Get your own house in order and stop wasting our hard-earned tax dollars. Given your stance on burden sharing, I would think you would agree with this sentiment. But, unfortunately, you are only evenhanded when it suits your personal agenda Paul. Here is the current state of our pending fiscal crisis. I spoke with a representative from the Department of Community Affairs yesterday at the League of Muncipalities Convention. The person I spoke with confirmed that we will be receiving $8 million in aid for 2008. That leaves us $4.5 million dollars short. Are you ready to make up this difference for us Paul? If it is passed on to the tax payers it will cost on average approximately $1300 more on your tax bill. It is no wonder that we are in the state we are in with people of your ilk believing that honestly stating the facts (regardless of who they implicate) and seeking solutions to our city's most pressing problems is irresponsible. Peace, Councilman Jim Keady Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/ * Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional * To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/join (Yahoo! ID required) * To change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
