subject:"\[AsburyPark\] Re\: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses"

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jennifer jennifern...@... wrote:

 Putting on my counseling hat here.  Reality is always subject to
 perception.  Reality being the way things actually exist is always
 influenced by individual perception.  Perception being a sensory
 experience of the world around us.   Perception is based on individual
 experience.  We can be in the same reality without the same perception
 of that existence.  It makes human beings very interesting.  
 Sooo...Everyone is entitled to their perceptions.
 
 The reality is the economy sucks and how you perceive the depth of
 that depends on individual experience.  AKA - A recession is when your
 neighbor is out of work, a depression is when you're out of work.
 
 BTW, I remain perplexed by Newbee.  S/he knows a lot of minutia for a
 visitor who came, had a great time, but wondered when the boardwalk
 would be finished.  Newbee, if you really live here and care then just
 post.  Your perceptions are much more valid when honestly put forth. 
 Otherwise, I just find myself pondering who you really are.
 
=

Putting on my engineering hat here.

You make a critical mistake in your analysis, perhaps you know and just phrased 
it poorly.  
Reality is not subject to perception - nor is it influenced by perception - 
Reality is Reality.

Certainly experience and knowledge color how one perceives a given reality. 
Take the 
question of whether the redevelopment is a success or not.

The less one knows about it the more positive the opinion based upon cursory 
observations. Sensory inputs tip the scale.

The more one knows about it the more negative the opinion based upon the facts 
and 
figures involved. Critical analysis tips the scale. 

Its not unreasonable for someone to visit, have a good time, do some research 
and 
conclude that things are seriously amiss.

Werner




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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses

2009-01-20 Thread jaedee64

I have to respectfully disagree with your assertion. Any given individuals 
perception is their reality. No one can state something as reality without it 
being skewed by their perception. So I guess you can say my reality is that 
perception is reality.



Sent via BlackBerry Bold

-Original Message-
From: wernerapnj wernera...@yahoo.com

Date: Tue, 20 Jan 2009 12:53:45 
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jennifer jennifern...@... wrote:

 Putting on my counseling hat here.  Reality is always subject to
 perception.  Reality being the way things actually exist is always
 influenced by individual perception.  Perception being a sensory
 experience of the world around us.   Perception is based on individual
 experience.  We can be in the same reality without the same perception
 of that existence.  It makes human beings very interesting.  
 Sooo...Everyone is entitled to their perceptions.
 
 The reality is the economy sucks and how you perceive the depth of
 that depends on individual experience.  AKA - A recession is when your
 neighbor is out of work, a depression is when you're out of work.
 
 BTW, I remain perplexed by Newbee.  S/he knows a lot of minutia for a
 visitor who came, had a great time, but wondered when the boardwalk
 would be finished.  Newbee, if you really live here and care then just
 post.  Your perceptions are much more valid when honestly put forth. 
 Otherwise, I just find myself pondering who you really are.
 
=

Putting on my engineering hat here.

You make a critical mistake in your analysis, perhaps you know and just phrased 
it poorly.  
Reality is not subject to perception - nor is it influenced by perception - 
Reality is Reality.

Certainly experience and knowledge color how one perceives a given reality. 
Take the 
question of whether the redevelopment is a success or not.

The less one knows about it the more positive the opinion based upon cursory 
observations. Sensory inputs tip the scale.

The more one knows about it the more negative the opinion based upon the facts 
and 
figures involved. Critical analysis tips the scale. 

Its not unreasonable for someone to visit, have a good time, do some research 
and 
conclude that things are seriously amiss.

Werner




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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[AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, jaede...@... wrote:

 I have to respectfully disagree with your assertion. Any given individuals 
 perception is 
their reality. No one can state something as reality without it being skewed by 
their 
perception. So I guess you can say my reality is that perception is reality.
 


Perceptions are just that, perceptions -- not reality in the collective sense
An individuals reality perhaps, as in insisting that 2+2+5 in spite of the
reality being that 2+2+4

Take Note: b: something that is neither derivative nor dependent but exists 
necessarily


Main Entry:
re·al·i·ty 
Pronunciation:
\r#275;-#712;a-l#601;-t#275;\
Function:
noun
Inflected Form(s):
plural re·al·i·ties
Date:
1550
1: the quality or state of being real
2 a (1): a real event, entity, or state of affairs his dream became a reality 
(2): the 
totality of real things and events trying to escape from reality b: something 
that is 
neither derivative nor dependent but exists necessarily
3: television programming that features videos of actual occurrences (as a 
police chase, 
stunt, or natural disaster) often used attributively reality TV
 in reality : in actual fact





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[AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj wernera...@... wrote:

 Perceptions are just that, perceptions -- not reality in the collective sense
 An individuals reality perhaps, as in insisting that 2+2+5 in spite of the
 reality being that 2+2+4


Oops - sticky key of course that should be =5 and =4 




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[AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses


re·al·i·ty  (r-l-t)
n. pl. re·al·i·ties
1. The quality or state of being actual or true.
2. One, such as a person, an entity, or an event, that is actual: the weight 
of history and 
political realities Benno C. Schmidt, Jr.
3. The totality of all things possessing actuality, existence, or essence.
4. That which exists objectively and in fact: Your observations do not seem to 
be about 
reality.
Idiom:
in reality
In fact; actually.

and

reality
Noun
pl -ties
1. the state of things as they are or appear to be, rather than as one might 
wish them to 
be
2. something that is real
3. the state of being real
4. in reality in fact





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[AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses


Just look at 

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/reality

and

http://www.thefreedictionary.com/perception







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[AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses

2009-01-20 Thread oakdorf

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, wernerapnj wernera...@... wrote:

 

..and the real reality is that realty isn't spelled reality.

the state of things as they actually exist






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[AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses

2009-01-20 Thread sharon_b283


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre
gabrielleo...@... wrote:

 Good morning newbee, I was wondering where the anonymous malcontent
 was. Just to let you know I drove through town and by the boardwalk
 last night and there were LOTS of people enjoying AP. Spending their
 money eating and drinking and taking up parking spaces and providing
 work for all sorts of people paying sales sales tax etc. But you
 wouldn't know that because you don't live here.

and again, I'll call you on who you really are. I think mark mentioned
it once. You probably aren't new to ap, just a shit stirrer. maybe a
failed business owner licking wounds and trying to create misery
(unhappy people are good at that).

I'll second that Gabrielle!







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[AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses

2009-01-20 Thread Jennifer

-I am not quibbling on the definition of reality.  It is the way that
things actually exist.  The reason I said I was writing as a counselor
is because human beings see reality through perception.  That isn't an
argument.  It simply is something that needs to be seen when dealing
with human behavior.  Arguing with someone who is optimistic about the
same reality that another is pessimistic about is not going to change
their view.  We all see through the prism of our own perception.  

It is interesting that your definition included reality TV.  Is that
truly reality or is it a manipulated reality?  A great example of
perception's role in reality.

I stand by my own perception that Newbee's very strong opinion of
local AP centered politics and happenings does not fit his or her
self-description. I also personally take the posts of those who put
their real name after their perceptions much more seriously than those
who do not.  

Jennifer




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[AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses

2009-01-20 Thread Gabrielle Obre

Thank you so much Jennifer and Jadee for the perception thoughts.
Jennifer, your balance and equanimity is an inspiration for me and
something I need to learn from.

Werner, I am truly sorry for going off on you some weeks ago. I know
how valuable your knowledge of Asbury is. Your love is clear. But
science does tell us that perception has a lot to do with us. Is it
Heisenberg's principle that even suggests that we CHANGE reality with
our perceptions?

I just listened to a talk by Russel Targ, physicist, CIA trainer and
author of a new book called I think the end of suffering. Thats
where my passion lies. I used to be so negative about everything (ask
my mother). We have to change if we want our world to change. Be
negative if you want, but it really only hurts yourself.

Jack, you take things way too personally. Life is so much more
enjoyable when you don't. Whatever someone says has nothing to do with
us. Only egos get offended. No one can touch who you are at essence.
Thats freedom. And insanity is doing the same thing over and over and
expecting different results. And complaining is useless. I don't have
the time to be as involved as I would like, and I don't have the
tolerance for the BS, phoniness, scheming etc. And I don't live in the
past, or reminisce about it.

I am an optimist and most people would look at my life and wonder how
that is possible. I'm 41 about to enter vocational school. There are
so many good things happening in the world its amazing. Find a talk on
FORA tv by Paul Hawken. So beautiful. And it may sound kooky on this
board, but the only reason we are here is to expand in consciousness
and love. Yes for our enemies, those who would take us down, etc.

Happy Happy inauguration Day! 


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakd...@... wrote:

 -
 maybe change is needed in AP as well.
 
 Someone to figure out AP's decades old fiscal problems and devise a
 plan that will focus on becoming self funded with such a reliance on
 the state, fed gov, singers, builders etc..
 
 Story in the APP on how the 600 school districts are going to HAVE to
 go k-12 or form regional districts. 
 
 But that will up to the county to decide. 
 
 So right along the shore you have Bradley, Deal, Belmar etc - all will
 have to come to grips soon, as will having to pay a fairer sahre of
 our property taxes.
 
 Anyone see that Neptune has introduced an ordinance to charge a 3%
 hotel tax?






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[AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses

2009-01-20 Thread Jack Pitzer

No, I actually don't take things too personally.
I think you are blissfully unaware of how insulting you can be at times.
You basically suggested I was insane in a recent post.
You told me my perception is wrong.
I love Asbury Park and I have a different vision where I wish the city would go 
and you tell 
me I'm wrong.
Complaining isn't useless when it leads to meaningful discussion, and it breaks 
down 
when you interrupt that discussion by projecting thoughts in which you suggest 
insanity.
You refuse to understand that my thoughts about AP come from the fact that I 
love this 
place. I subject myself and my car to a 140 mile a day commute because I don't 
want to 
live any place else.



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre gabrielleo...@... wrote:

 Thank you so much Jennifer and Jadee for the perception thoughts.
 Jennifer, your balance and equanimity is an inspiration for me and
 something I need to learn from.
 
 Werner, I am truly sorry for going off on you some weeks ago. I know
 how valuable your knowledge of Asbury is. Your love is clear. But
 science does tell us that perception has a lot to do with us. Is it
 Heisenberg's principle that even suggests that we CHANGE reality with
 our perceptions?
 
 I just listened to a talk by Russel Targ, physicist, CIA trainer and
 author of a new book called I think the end of suffering. Thats
 where my passion lies. I used to be so negative about everything (ask
 my mother). We have to change if we want our world to change. Be
 negative if you want, but it really only hurts yourself.
 
 Jack, you take things way too personally. Life is so much more
 enjoyable when you don't. Whatever someone says has nothing to do with
 us. Only egos get offended. No one can touch who you are at essence.
 Thats freedom. And insanity is doing the same thing over and over and
 expecting different results. And complaining is useless. I don't have
 the time to be as involved as I would like, and I don't have the
 tolerance for the BS, phoniness, scheming etc. And I don't live in the
 past, or reminisce about it.
 
 I am an optimist and most people would look at my life and wonder how
 that is possible. I'm 41 about to enter vocational school. There are
 so many good things happening in the world its amazing. Find a talk on
 FORA tv by Paul Hawken. So beautiful. And it may sound kooky on this
 board, but the only reason we are here is to expand in consciousness
 and love. Yes for our enemies, those who would take us down, etc.
 
 Happy Happy inauguration Day! 
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakdorf@ wrote:
 
  -
  maybe change is needed in AP as well.
  
  Someone to figure out AP's decades old fiscal problems and devise a
  plan that will focus on becoming self funded with such a reliance on
  the state, fed gov, singers, builders etc..
  
  Story in the APP on how the 600 school districts are going to HAVE to
  go k-12 or form regional districts. 
  
  But that will up to the county to decide. 
  
  So right along the shore you have Bradley, Deal, Belmar etc - all will
  have to come to grips soon, as will having to pay a fairer sahre of
  our property taxes.
  
  Anyone see that Neptune has introduced an ordinance to charge a 3%
  hotel tax?
 







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[AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses

2009-01-20 Thread Jack Pitzer

I thought about what you wrote before, about me taking things too personally.
I'll admit that I'm too sensitive, so you are probably right.
So, in the spirit of change that is so prevailing today, I'll take your 
observation as 
constructive criticism.
I'd also like to suggest that you read the book The Tao of Pooh
Best wishes on this amazing day.


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre gabrielleo...@... wrote:

 Thank you so much Jennifer and Jadee for the perception thoughts.
 Jennifer, your balance and equanimity is an inspiration for me and
 something I need to learn from.
 
 Werner, I am truly sorry for going off on you some weeks ago. I know
 how valuable your knowledge of Asbury is. Your love is clear. But
 science does tell us that perception has a lot to do with us. Is it
 Heisenberg's principle that even suggests that we CHANGE reality with
 our perceptions?
 
 I just listened to a talk by Russel Targ, physicist, CIA trainer and
 author of a new book called I think the end of suffering. Thats
 where my passion lies. I used to be so negative about everything (ask
 my mother). We have to change if we want our world to change. Be
 negative if you want, but it really only hurts yourself.
 
 Jack, you take things way too personally. Life is so much more
 enjoyable when you don't. Whatever someone says has nothing to do with
 us. Only egos get offended. No one can touch who you are at essence.
 Thats freedom. And insanity is doing the same thing over and over and
 expecting different results. And complaining is useless. I don't have
 the time to be as involved as I would like, and I don't have the
 tolerance for the BS, phoniness, scheming etc. And I don't live in the
 past, or reminisce about it.
 
 I am an optimist and most people would look at my life and wonder how
 that is possible. I'm 41 about to enter vocational school. There are
 so many good things happening in the world its amazing. Find a talk on
 FORA tv by Paul Hawken. So beautiful. And it may sound kooky on this
 board, but the only reason we are here is to expand in consciousness
 and love. Yes for our enemies, those who would take us down, etc.
 
 Happy Happy inauguration Day! 
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, oakdorf oakdorf@ wrote:
 
  -
  maybe change is needed in AP as well.
  
  Someone to figure out AP's decades old fiscal problems and devise a
  plan that will focus on becoming self funded with such a reliance on
  the state, fed gov, singers, builders etc..
  
  Story in the APP on how the 600 school districts are going to HAVE to
  go k-12 or form regional districts. 
  
  But that will up to the county to decide. 
  
  So right along the shore you have Bradley, Deal, Belmar etc - all will
  have to come to grips soon, as will having to pay a fairer sahre of
  our property taxes.
  
  Anyone see that Neptune has introduced an ordinance to charge a 3%
  hotel tax?
 







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[AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses

2009-01-20 Thread Gabrielle Obre

Jack, I did NOT call you insane. I repeated a line I have heard over
and over that has been helpful to me. When I get insulted, I AM taking
something personally.

Complaining IS useless. I even found a site (connected to the work of
Eckhart Tolle) that aims to end complaining, gossip and criticizing
http://www.acomplaintfreeworld.org/howitworks.html

AND, I do not say this because I am free of complaining, gossip or
criticizing. 

There are tons of things that the city does that I find absolutely
ludicrous. The bike unfriendliness of cookman (the new section) is one
of the grossest examples of absolute idiocy. So I make fun of them for
it and ride my bike smack down the middle. But I also have to
acknowledge that I wasn't there at the meetings, so I have to take
some responsibility.

All of my experiences sitting in the council chambers were a hoot to
me. Ridiculous really. They are not smart people generally speaking. A
friend who lives out of state for part of the year and is very active
in his community once asked me about one of the council members. Does
that guy have ANY education he asked me, He's a buffoon. That's why
I can't go to those meetings. I once listened to one of the council
members respond to a question and it was perfectly clear that the guy
had no idea what the question was about. It was embarrassing. I'd give
anything for someone educated in communication and government to sit
and write comments about it.

Another thing as I yab on. I was at an event where women in smaller
government were being celebrated. A fairly well known woman asked me
where I lived and when I told her, her response was Oh boy, you've
got problems down there.

They should NOT be sitting above members of the community, they should
be sitting beneath them. 

Go sometime for entertainment. I recommend a few cocktails beforehand.
I'll go with you, but I need a buzz. And it will be killed fast.

That said, we can enjoy what is here. And it genuinely just makes me
sad when it seems to bum you out so much. One of my favorite spiritual
teachers says something like, everything is a mess and everything is
exactly the way its supposed to be. He's the I'm an ass your an ass
guy. Anthony DeMello. 

I will shut up with a quote from Ani Difranco The world owes me
nothing, we owe each other the world.

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hing...@... wrote:

 No, I actually don't take things too personally.
 I think you are blissfully unaware of how insulting you can be at times.
 You basically suggested I was insane in a recent post.
 You told me my perception is wrong.
 I love Asbury Park and I have a different vision where I wish the
city would go and you tell 
 me I'm wrong.
 Complaining isn't useless when it leads to meaningful discussion,
and it breaks down 
 when you interrupt that discussion by projecting thoughts in which
you suggest insanity.
 You refuse to understand that my thoughts about AP come from the
fact that I love this 
 place. I subject myself and my car to a 140 mile a day commute
because I don't want to 
 live any place else.
 
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre gabrielleobre@
wrote:
 
  Thank you so much Jennifer and Jadee for the perception thoughts.
  Jennifer, your balance and equanimity is an inspiration for me and
  something I need to learn from.
  
  Werner, I am truly sorry for going off on you some weeks ago. I know
  how valuable your knowledge of Asbury is. Your love is clear. But
  science does tell us that perception has a lot to do with us. Is it
  Heisenberg's principle that even suggests that we CHANGE reality with
  our perceptions?
  
  I just listened to a talk by Russel Targ, physicist, CIA trainer and
  author of a new book called I think the end of suffering. Thats
  where my passion lies. I used to be so negative about everything (ask
  my mother). We have to change if we want our world to change. Be
  negative if you want, but it really only hurts yourself.
  
  Jack, you take things way too personally. Life is so much more
  enjoyable when you don't. Whatever someone says has nothing to do with
  us. Only egos get offended. No one can touch who you are at essence.
  Thats freedom. And insanity is doing the same thing over and over and
  expecting different results. And complaining is useless. I don't have
  the time to be as involved as I would like, and I don't have the
  tolerance for the BS, phoniness, scheming etc. And I don't live in the
  past, or reminisce about it.
  
  I am an optimist and most people would look at my life and wonder how
  that is possible. I'm 41 about to enter vocational school. There are
  so many good things happening in the world its amazing. Find a talk on
  FORA tv by Paul Hawken. So beautiful. And it may sound kooky on this
  board, but the only reason we are here is to expand in consciousness
  and love. Yes for our enemies, those who would take us down, etc.
  
  Happy Happy inauguration Day! 
  
  
  --- In

Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses

2009-01-19 Thread Mike Hemeon

There will be change alright. You will look at 2008 as the good old days. He 
isn't even sworn in yet and he is saying you may not see change in his first 
term. This recession is the worst I have ever seen and I have seen a few. You 
think Obama will help Asbury Park in some way? Wonder if he knows it even 
exists?





From: dapawprint dapawpr...@yahoo.com
To: AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, January 19, 2009 12:02:26 AM
Subject: [AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses


Happy America, Happy Asbury Park!

I know that not all of us in this group share my excitement, but 
please keep our own Denise Richardson in your thoughts as she leads 
two busses and 92 people down to the Mall for the inauguration.

Asbury Park has been the launching pad for many famous people, I saw 
some of them on my TV today as they performed on the steps of the 
Lincoln Memorial, with the First Presidential - Elect Family as the 
audience of honor.

Change has come, and dreams DO come true.

Take a minute to hug a loved one soon, this is history in progress.

Glenn

--- In asburyp...@yahoogro ups.com, Jack Pitzer hing...@...  wrote:

 Before she was known to the world, Ingrid Michaelson performed at 
the Saint.
 Also, once upon a time, Nicole was the door person at The Saint.
 
 
 --- In asburyp...@yahoogro ups.com, MarioAPNJ@ wrote:
 
  In a message dated 1/18/2009 8:29:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, 
  MarioAPNJ@ writes:
  
  But then got another promo email for Nicle Atkins' CD, Neptune 
City. And 
  
  it reminded me of all you've been saying:
  
   ===
  
  
  
  In case that blurb appeared as wing dings here's the link it came 
from: 
  
  _http://tinyurl. com/9larv6_ (http://tinyurl. com/9larv6) 
  
  or
  
  _New Music Minute featuring Ingrid Michaelson Nicole Atkins | 
Neophiliacs_ 
  (http://www.neophili acs.com/new- music-minute- featuring- ingrid-
michaelson-
 nicole-
  atkins/) 
  
   **A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in 
just 2 easy 
  steps! 
  
(http://pr.atwola. com/promoclk/ 10075x121585 5013x1201028747/ aol?
 redir=http://www.freecred itreport. com/pm/default. aspx?
 sc=668072%26hmpgID= 62%26bcd= De
  cemailfooterNO62)
  
  
  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 


 


  

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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[AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses

2009-01-19 Thread oakdorf

-
maybe change is needed in AP as well.

Someone to figure out AP's decades old fiscal problems and devise a
plan that will focus on becoming self funded with such a reliance on
the state, fed gov, singers, builders etc..

Story in the APP on how the 600 school districts are going to HAVE to
go k-12 or form regional districts. 

But that will up to the county to decide. 

So right along the shore you have Bradley, Deal, Belmar etc - all will
have to come to grips soon, as will having to pay a fairer sahre of
our property taxes.

Anyone see that Neptune has introduced an ordinance to charge a 3%
hotel tax? 









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[AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses

2009-01-19 Thread Jennifer

Putting on my counseling hat here.  Reality is always subject to
perception.  Reality being the way things actually exist is always
influenced by individual perception.  Perception being a sensory
experience of the world around us.   Perception is based on individual
experience.  We can be in the same reality without the same perception
of that existence.  It makes human beings very interesting.  
Sooo...Everyone is entitled to their perceptions.

The reality is the economy sucks and how you perceive the depth of
that depends on individual experience.  AKA - A recession is when your
neighbor is out of work, a depression is when you're out of work.

BTW, I remain perplexed by Newbee.  S/he knows a lot of minutia for a
visitor who came, had a great time, but wondered when the boardwalk
would be finished.  Newbee, if you really live here and care then just
post.  Your perceptions are much more valid when honestly put forth. 
Otherwise, I just find myself pondering who you really are.

Happy Inauguration Day,
Jennifer




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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses

2009-01-19 Thread MarioAPNJ

In a message dated 1/18/2009 10:30:12 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
hing...@yahoo.com writes:

Before she was known to the world, Ingrid Michaelson performed at the Saint.
Also, once upon a time, Nicole was the door person at The Saint.

New to me but I did listen to some clips.

What I like is the narrative of her journey:

Started by wanting to get the hell out of here (the shore); traveled the
world; then returned here; acknowledges the mythologies and the idelization but

also cherishes the beautiful personal stories, the sense of history which
inspires her; and finally, the sense of what might still be.

_http://tinyurl.com/9larv6_ (http://tinyurl.com/9larv6)

**A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy
steps!
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/10075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De
cemailfooterNO62)

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[AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses

Good morning newbee, I was wondering where the anonymous malcontent
was. Just to let you know I drove through town and by the boardwalk
last night and there were LOTS of people enjoying AP. Spending their
money eating and drinking and taking up parking spaces and providing
work for all sorts of people paying sales sales tax etc. But you
wouldn't know that because you don't live here.

Rafferty's was busy, Brick wall looked busy, Market in the Middle's
bar looked busy. It was a little early for paradise but there were
cars in the lot (from my direct experience sat nights are usually
packed). Stella Marina had people at the Bar upstairs, there were no
open diagonal parking spaces open along ocean. Langosta appeared busy
(from what I could see, someone who worked last sat said it was
jammin). People were going into Wonder Bar.

All this on a freezing evening in the middle of one of the worst
economic downturns in American history. Well whatya know.

I may be a loner on this board (which I don't mind, I am fiercely
independent and was taught to stand on my own with out the need of a
pandering posse) but there were lots of those like me, enjoying
themselves, spending money and contributing to Asbury's economy last
night in AP. 

I don't care about the budget anymore. I said this before, the entire
world is in debt, 13 million for a city in redevelopment is nothing.
Should the city figure out ways to get some of the green coming in, of
course, but I'm not about to subject myself to city council meetings
you and jack can feel free. I know Werner is usually there. I am
figuring out other ways to serve that don't involve so many egos and
bullshit.

Maybe you, Werner and Jack should start a complaint and gripe board
where you can post the same things over and over and over. I'll send
some healing love over to you, do some tonglen meditation for ya
before I go out on my tight budget and have some fun dancing with
others who know how to express the joy of their spirit in community.
why dont' you come down on the 31st for the bartender mix off. I'll
spot the 5 bucks for you.

and again, I'll call you on who you really are. I think mark mentioned
it once. You probably aren't new to ap, just a shit stirrer. maybe a
failed business owner licking wounds and trying to create misery
(unhappy people are good at that).

cheers buddy!





--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, New Beetoap newbeet...@... wrote:

 Holed up in this freezing weather forced me to entertain myself again 
 (I had sworn off) with this group. What do I find? - the ongoing 
 attitude by some that AP is fine the way it is, 'just enjoy it and have 
 fun'.
 
 I'll bet that the people (you know who you are) with that attitude know 
 very little about what it takes to make a town work. Especially from a 
 financial perspective.
 
 What happened to that budget discussion? This is a New Year - what are 
 the projections for revenue, expenses. Is AP racking up a negative $13M 
 or more balance sheet again?
 
 BTW: Is that beachfront done yet? Its going on a year since that was 
 promised.






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[AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses

2009-01-18 Thread New Beetoap

Its very clear that you just dont get-it.

All the good things you mention have nothing to do with if AP is 
financially solvent or not. 

All those good things have nothing to do with if the redevelopment 
has been a success or not.

Its ok to not care about the workings of a town, please continue, but 
how dare you berate people who do care about things that you admit 
you dont.



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre 
gabrielleo...@... wrote:

 Good morning newbee, I was wondering where the anonymous malcontent
 was. Just to let you know I drove through town and by the boardwalk
 last night and there were LOTS of people enjoying AP. Spending their
 money eating and drinking and taking up parking spaces and providing
 work for all sorts of people paying sales sales tax etc. But you
 wouldn't know that because you don't live here.
 
 Rafferty's was busy, Brick wall looked busy, Market in the Middle's
 bar looked busy. It was a little early for paradise but there were
 cars in the lot (from my direct experience sat nights are usually
 packed). Stella Marina had people at the Bar upstairs, there were no
 open diagonal parking spaces open along ocean. Langosta appeared 
busy
 (from what I could see, someone who worked last sat said it was
 jammin). People were going into Wonder Bar.
 
 All this on a freezing evening in the middle of one of the worst
 economic downturns in American history. Well whatya know.
 
 I may be a loner on this board (which I don't mind, I am fiercely
 independent and was taught to stand on my own with out the need of a
 pandering posse) but there were lots of those like me, enjoying
 themselves, spending money and contributing to Asbury's economy last
 night in AP. 
 
 I don't care about the budget anymore. I said this before, the 
entire
 world is in debt, 13 million for a city in redevelopment is nothing.
 Should the city figure out ways to get some of the green coming in, 
of
 course, but I'm not about to subject myself to city council meetings
 you and jack can feel free. I know Werner is usually there. I am
 figuring out other ways to serve that don't involve so many egos and
 bullshit.
 
 Maybe you, Werner and Jack should start a complaint and gripe board
 where you can post the same things over and over and over. I'll send
 some healing love over to you, do some tonglen meditation for ya
 before I go out on my tight budget and have some fun dancing with
 others who know how to express the joy of their spirit in community.
 why dont' you come down on the 31st for the bartender mix off. I'll
 spot the 5 bucks for you.
 
 and again, I'll call you on who you really are. I think mark 
mentioned
 it once. You probably aren't new to ap, just a shit stirrer. maybe a
 failed business owner licking wounds and trying to create misery
 (unhappy people are good at that).
 
 cheers buddy!
 
 
 
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, New Beetoap newbeetoap@ 
wrote:
 
  Holed up in this freezing weather forced me to entertain myself 
again 
  (I had sworn off) with this group. What do I find? - the ongoing 
  attitude by some that AP is fine the way it is, 'just enjoy it 
and have 
  fun'.
  
  I'll bet that the people (you know who you are) with that 
attitude know 
  very little about what it takes to make a town work. Especially 
from a 
  financial perspective.
  
  What happened to that budget discussion? This is a New Year - 
what are 
  the projections for revenue, expenses. Is AP racking up a 
negative $13M 
  or more balance sheet again?
  
  BTW: Is that beachfront done yet? Its going on a year since that 
was 
  promised.
 






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[AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses

You've got to be kidding me. A thriving restaurant/entertainment
economy has nothing to do with a town's financial situation? That's
deluded, not you, the idea. All you do is berate this town and the
people who enjoy and love it.

You my friend are a master of projection.

Once again I'll try, what's your name and where do YOU live?


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, New Beetoap newbeet...@... wrote:

 Its very clear that you just dont get-it.
 
 All the good things you mention have nothing to do with if AP is 
 financially solvent or not. 
 
 All those good things have nothing to do with if the redevelopment 
 has been a success or not.
 
 Its ok to not care about the workings of a town, please continue, but 
 how dare you berate people who do care about things that you admit 
 you dont.
 
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre 
 gabrielleobre@ wrote:
 
  Good morning newbee, I was wondering where the anonymous malcontent
  was. Just to let you know I drove through town and by the boardwalk
  last night and there were LOTS of people enjoying AP. Spending their
  money eating and drinking and taking up parking spaces and providing
  work for all sorts of people paying sales sales tax etc. But you
  wouldn't know that because you don't live here.
  
  Rafferty's was busy, Brick wall looked busy, Market in the Middle's
  bar looked busy. It was a little early for paradise but there were
  cars in the lot (from my direct experience sat nights are usually
  packed). Stella Marina had people at the Bar upstairs, there were no
  open diagonal parking spaces open along ocean. Langosta appeared 
 busy
  (from what I could see, someone who worked last sat said it was
  jammin). People were going into Wonder Bar.
  
  All this on a freezing evening in the middle of one of the worst
  economic downturns in American history. Well whatya know.
  
  I may be a loner on this board (which I don't mind, I am fiercely
  independent and was taught to stand on my own with out the need of a
  pandering posse) but there were lots of those like me, enjoying
  themselves, spending money and contributing to Asbury's economy last
  night in AP. 
  
  I don't care about the budget anymore. I said this before, the 
 entire
  world is in debt, 13 million for a city in redevelopment is nothing.
  Should the city figure out ways to get some of the green coming in, 
 of
  course, but I'm not about to subject myself to city council meetings
  you and jack can feel free. I know Werner is usually there. I am
  figuring out other ways to serve that don't involve so many egos and
  bullshit.
  
  Maybe you, Werner and Jack should start a complaint and gripe board
  where you can post the same things over and over and over. I'll send
  some healing love over to you, do some tonglen meditation for ya
  before I go out on my tight budget and have some fun dancing with
  others who know how to express the joy of their spirit in community.
  why dont' you come down on the 31st for the bartender mix off. I'll
  spot the 5 bucks for you.
  
  and again, I'll call you on who you really are. I think mark 
 mentioned
  it once. You probably aren't new to ap, just a shit stirrer. maybe a
  failed business owner licking wounds and trying to create misery
  (unhappy people are good at that).
  
  cheers buddy!
  
  
  
  
  
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, New Beetoap newbeetoap@ 
 wrote:
  
   Holed up in this freezing weather forced me to entertain myself 
 again 
   (I had sworn off) with this group. What do I find? - the ongoing 
   attitude by some that AP is fine the way it is, 'just enjoy it 
 and have 
   fun'.
   
   I'll bet that the people (you know who you are) with that 
 attitude know 
   very little about what it takes to make a town work. Especially 
 from a 
   financial perspective.
   
   What happened to that budget discussion? This is a New Year - 
 what are 
   the projections for revenue, expenses. Is AP racking up a 
 negative $13M 
   or more balance sheet again?
   
   BTW: Is that beachfront done yet? Its going on a year since that 
 was 
   promised.
  
 






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[AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses

2009-01-18 Thread New Beetoap

You my friend are the master of Ignorance is Bliss.

AP is host to the restaurant/entertainment economy you talk about 
and everything else so dear to you.

If the Host dies or suffers serious illness all of that dies or 
suffers too.

My name or where I live doesnt matter. Be glad that some people care 
about the Host. Unfortunately its in intensive care on life support 
(State Funded).


In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre gabrielleo...@... 
wrote:

 You've got to be kidding me. A thriving restaurant/entertainment
 economy has nothing to do with a town's financial situation? That's
 deluded, not you, the idea. All you do is berate this town and the
 people who enjoy and love it.
 
 You my friend are a master of projection.
 
 Once again I'll try, what's your name and where do YOU live?
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, New Beetoap newbeetoap@ 
wrote:
 
  Its very clear that you just dont get-it.
  
  All the good things you mention have nothing to do with if AP is 
  financially solvent or not. 
  
  All those good things have nothing to do with if the 
redevelopment 
  has been a success or not.
  
  Its ok to not care about the workings of a town, please continue, 
but 
  how dare you berate people who do care about things that you 
admit 
  you dont.
  
  
  
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre 
  gabrielleobre@ wrote:
  
   Good morning newbee, I was wondering where the anonymous 
malcontent
   was. Just to let you know I drove through town and by the 
boardwalk
   last night and there were LOTS of people enjoying AP. Spending 
their
   money eating and drinking and taking up parking spaces and 
providing
   work for all sorts of people paying sales sales tax etc. But you
   wouldn't know that because you don't live here.
   
   Rafferty's was busy, Brick wall looked busy, Market in the 
Middle's
   bar looked busy. It was a little early for paradise but there 
were
   cars in the lot (from my direct experience sat nights are 
usually
   packed). Stella Marina had people at the Bar upstairs, there 
were no
   open diagonal parking spaces open along ocean. Langosta 
appeared 
  busy
   (from what I could see, someone who worked last sat said it was
   jammin). People were going into Wonder Bar.
   
   All this on a freezing evening in the middle of one of the worst
   economic downturns in American history. Well whatya know.
   
   I may be a loner on this board (which I don't mind, I am 
fiercely
   independent and was taught to stand on my own with out the need 
of a
   pandering posse) but there were lots of those like me, enjoying
   themselves, spending money and contributing to Asbury's economy 
last
   night in AP. 
   
   I don't care about the budget anymore. I said this before, the 
  entire
   world is in debt, 13 million for a city in redevelopment is 
nothing.
   Should the city figure out ways to get some of the green coming 
in, 
  of
   course, but I'm not about to subject myself to city council 
meetings
   you and jack can feel free. I know Werner is usually there. I am
   figuring out other ways to serve that don't involve so many 
egos and
   bullshit.
   
   Maybe you, Werner and Jack should start a complaint and gripe 
board
   where you can post the same things over and over and over. I'll 
send
   some healing love over to you, do some tonglen meditation for ya
   before I go out on my tight budget and have some fun dancing 
with
   others who know how to express the joy of their spirit in 
community.
   why dont' you come down on the 31st for the bartender mix off. 
I'll
   spot the 5 bucks for you.
   
   and again, I'll call you on who you really are. I think mark 
  mentioned
   it once. You probably aren't new to ap, just a shit stirrer. 
maybe a
   failed business owner licking wounds and trying to create misery
   (unhappy people are good at that).
   
   cheers buddy!
   
   
   
   
   
   --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, New Beetoap newbeetoap@ 
  wrote:
   
Holed up in this freezing weather forced me to entertain 
myself 
  again 
(I had sworn off) with this group. What do I find? - the 
ongoing 
attitude by some that AP is fine the way it is, 'just enjoy 
it 
  and have 
fun'.

I'll bet that the people (you know who you are) with that 
  attitude know 
very little about what it takes to make a town work. 
Especially 
  from a 
financial perspective.

What happened to that budget discussion? This is a New Year - 
  what are 
the projections for revenue, expenses. Is AP racking up a 
  negative $13M 
or more balance sheet again?

BTW: Is that beachfront done yet? Its going on a year since 
that 
  was 
promised.
   
  
 






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* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AsburyPark/

* Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

* To change settings online go to:

[AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses

It's amazing that somebody who casts themselves as enlightened finds the need 
to put 
down and want silence other people who have a different vision then yours...

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre gabrielleo...@... wrote:

 Good morning newbee, I was wondering where the anonymous malcontent
 was. Just to let you know I drove through town and by the boardwalk
 last night and there were LOTS of people enjoying AP. Spending their
 money eating and drinking and taking up parking spaces and providing
 work for all sorts of people paying sales sales tax etc. But you
 wouldn't know that because you don't live here.
 
 Rafferty's was busy, Brick wall looked busy, Market in the Middle's
 bar looked busy. It was a little early for paradise but there were
 cars in the lot (from my direct experience sat nights are usually
 packed). Stella Marina had people at the Bar upstairs, there were no
 open diagonal parking spaces open along ocean. Langosta appeared busy
 (from what I could see, someone who worked last sat said it was
 jammin). People were going into Wonder Bar.
 
 All this on a freezing evening in the middle of one of the worst
 economic downturns in American history. Well whatya know.
 
 I may be a loner on this board (which I don't mind, I am fiercely
 independent and was taught to stand on my own with out the need of a
 pandering posse) but there were lots of those like me, enjoying
 themselves, spending money and contributing to Asbury's economy last
 night in AP. 
 
 I don't care about the budget anymore. I said this before, the entire
 world is in debt, 13 million for a city in redevelopment is nothing.
 Should the city figure out ways to get some of the green coming in, of
 course, but I'm not about to subject myself to city council meetings
 you and jack can feel free. I know Werner is usually there. I am
 figuring out other ways to serve that don't involve so many egos and
 bullshit.
 
 Maybe you, Werner and Jack should start a complaint and gripe board
 where you can post the same things over and over and over. I'll send
 some healing love over to you, do some tonglen meditation for ya
 before I go out on my tight budget and have some fun dancing with
 others who know how to express the joy of their spirit in community.
 why dont' you come down on the 31st for the bartender mix off. I'll
 spot the 5 bucks for you.
 
 and again, I'll call you on who you really are. I think mark mentioned
 it once. You probably aren't new to ap, just a shit stirrer. maybe a
 failed business owner licking wounds and trying to create misery
 (unhappy people are good at that).
 
 cheers buddy!
 
 
 
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, New Beetoap newbeetoap@ wrote:
 
  Holed up in this freezing weather forced me to entertain myself again 
  (I had sworn off) with this group. What do I find? - the ongoing 
  attitude by some that AP is fine the way it is, 'just enjoy it and have 
  fun'.
  
  I'll bet that the people (you know who you are) with that attitude know 
  very little about what it takes to make a town work. Especially from a 
  financial perspective.
  
  What happened to that budget discussion? This is a New Year - what are 
  the projections for revenue, expenses. Is AP racking up a negative $13M 
  or more balance sheet again?
  
  BTW: Is that beachfront done yet? Its going on a year since that was 
  promised.
 







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[AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses

Of course it matters who you are. Anonymous people can say anything
they want without it reflecting on who they are. You could be a
disgruntled failure at a business here. You could be a failed council
member, someone who lost their home, a disgruntled city employee. That
matters. The source of an opinion matter. People who care are not
afraid to be known. You are just an anonymous troll. Anonymous posters
are cowards.

The entire nation is on state support. Most businesses carry debt. I
understand Asbury is struggling in ways that Deal isn't, that is to be
expected. Are all the best choices being made, probably not. If you
have some hard evidence of serious malfeasance bring it up, call the
feds, you can probably do it anonymously.

BTW where is that document that says the redevelopment was supposed to
be finished by now?

Are you creating work for people? Asbury has always been a retreat of
sorts, a vacation get away. Entertainment and restaurants are
precisely what sustains that type of town. We don't have a steel mill
here. Could we use some small manufacturing, definitely. 

The thing that is so pointless about your comments is that you come up
with nothing constructive, you just mock the place. 

Ignorance is far from bliss, and neither is seeing the world from a
disgruntled, unhappy perspective, you know about that.


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, New Beetoap newbeet...@... wrote:

 You my friend are the master of Ignorance is Bliss.
 
 AP is host to the restaurant/entertainment economy you talk about 
 and everything else so dear to you.
 
 If the Host dies or suffers serious illness all of that dies or 
 suffers too.
 
 My name or where I live doesnt matter. Be glad that some people care 
 about the Host. Unfortunately its in intensive care on life support 
 (State Funded).
 
 
 In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre gabrielleobre@ 
 wrote:
 
  You've got to be kidding me. A thriving restaurant/entertainment
  economy has nothing to do with a town's financial situation? That's
  deluded, not you, the idea. All you do is berate this town and the
  people who enjoy and love it.
  
  You my friend are a master of projection.
  
  Once again I'll try, what's your name and where do YOU live?
  
  
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, New Beetoap newbeetoap@ 
 wrote:
  
   Its very clear that you just dont get-it.
   
   All the good things you mention have nothing to do with if AP is 
   financially solvent or not. 
   
   All those good things have nothing to do with if the 
 redevelopment 
   has been a success or not.
   
   Its ok to not care about the workings of a town, please continue, 
 but 
   how dare you berate people who do care about things that you 
 admit 
   you dont.
   
   
   
   --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre 
   gabrielleobre@ wrote:
   
Good morning newbee, I was wondering where the anonymous 
 malcontent
was. Just to let you know I drove through town and by the 
 boardwalk
last night and there were LOTS of people enjoying AP. Spending 
 their
money eating and drinking and taking up parking spaces and 
 providing
work for all sorts of people paying sales sales tax etc. But you
wouldn't know that because you don't live here.

Rafferty's was busy, Brick wall looked busy, Market in the 
 Middle's
bar looked busy. It was a little early for paradise but there 
 were
cars in the lot (from my direct experience sat nights are 
 usually
packed). Stella Marina had people at the Bar upstairs, there 
 were no
open diagonal parking spaces open along ocean. Langosta 
 appeared 
   busy
(from what I could see, someone who worked last sat said it was
jammin). People were going into Wonder Bar.

All this on a freezing evening in the middle of one of the worst
economic downturns in American history. Well whatya know.

I may be a loner on this board (which I don't mind, I am 
 fiercely
independent and was taught to stand on my own with out the need 
 of a
pandering posse) but there were lots of those like me, enjoying
themselves, spending money and contributing to Asbury's economy 
 last
night in AP. 

I don't care about the budget anymore. I said this before, the 
   entire
world is in debt, 13 million for a city in redevelopment is 
 nothing.
Should the city figure out ways to get some of the green coming 
 in, 
   of
course, but I'm not about to subject myself to city council 
 meetings
you and jack can feel free. I know Werner is usually there. I am
figuring out other ways to serve that don't involve so many 
 egos and
bullshit.

Maybe you, Werner and Jack should start a complaint and gripe 
 board
where you can post the same things over and over and over. I'll 
 send
some healing love over to you, do some tonglen meditation for ya
before I go out on my tight budget and have some fun dancing 
 with
others who know how

[AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses

when and where did I say I was enlightened? I believe in
enlightenment, but I am no where near it. If I was I wouldn't be
responding to anonymous internet trolls. And when and where did I try
to silence anyone? You don't like what I have to say. I am supposed to
shut up?

Remember Jack, you are the one who thinks only educated people
should have a voice. I think everyone should. And use it.


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hing...@... wrote:

 It's amazing that somebody who casts themselves as enlightened finds
the need to put 
 down and want silence other people who have a different vision then
yours...
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre gabrielleobre@
wrote:
 
  Good morning newbee, I was wondering where the anonymous malcontent
  was. Just to let you know I drove through town and by the boardwalk
  last night and there were LOTS of people enjoying AP. Spending their
  money eating and drinking and taking up parking spaces and providing
  work for all sorts of people paying sales sales tax etc. But you
  wouldn't know that because you don't live here.
  
  Rafferty's was busy, Brick wall looked busy, Market in the Middle's
  bar looked busy. It was a little early for paradise but there were
  cars in the lot (from my direct experience sat nights are usually
  packed). Stella Marina had people at the Bar upstairs, there were no
  open diagonal parking spaces open along ocean. Langosta appeared busy
  (from what I could see, someone who worked last sat said it was
  jammin). People were going into Wonder Bar.
  
  All this on a freezing evening in the middle of one of the worst
  economic downturns in American history. Well whatya know.
  
  I may be a loner on this board (which I don't mind, I am fiercely
  independent and was taught to stand on my own with out the need of a
  pandering posse) but there were lots of those like me, enjoying
  themselves, spending money and contributing to Asbury's economy last
  night in AP. 
  
  I don't care about the budget anymore. I said this before, the entire
  world is in debt, 13 million for a city in redevelopment is nothing.
  Should the city figure out ways to get some of the green coming in, of
  course, but I'm not about to subject myself to city council meetings
  you and jack can feel free. I know Werner is usually there. I am
  figuring out other ways to serve that don't involve so many egos and
  bullshit.
  
  Maybe you, Werner and Jack should start a complaint and gripe board
  where you can post the same things over and over and over. I'll send
  some healing love over to you, do some tonglen meditation for ya
  before I go out on my tight budget and have some fun dancing with
  others who know how to express the joy of their spirit in community.
  why dont' you come down on the 31st for the bartender mix off. I'll
  spot the 5 bucks for you.
  
  and again, I'll call you on who you really are. I think mark mentioned
  it once. You probably aren't new to ap, just a shit stirrer. maybe a
  failed business owner licking wounds and trying to create misery
  (unhappy people are good at that).
  
  cheers buddy!
  
  
  
  
  
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, New Beetoap newbeetoap@ wrote:
  
   Holed up in this freezing weather forced me to entertain myself
again 
   (I had sworn off) with this group. What do I find? - the ongoing 
   attitude by some that AP is fine the way it is, 'just enjoy it
and have 
   fun'.
   
   I'll bet that the people (you know who you are) with that
attitude know 
   very little about what it takes to make a town work. Especially
from a 
   financial perspective.
   
   What happened to that budget discussion? This is a New Year -
what are 
   the projections for revenue, expenses. Is AP racking up a
negative $13M 
   or more balance sheet again?
   
   BTW: Is that beachfront done yet? Its going on a year since that
was 
   promised.
  
 






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[AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses

I honestly think that it's appalling that the freedom of speech that America's 
founders 
fought so hard for has at times become so twisted and ugly.
When I see people on the internet posting horrible racist comments about our 
new 
president, I simply will not sit back and be silent. I'd love to see the whole 
nation become 
smarter and have a more educated and worldly voice, and I believe our new 
president very 
well may lead us in that direction.
That being said, if you are going to use my own beliefs against me, then think 
about 
where I'm coming from and what I'm trying to say.
As for AP, why are you so intent on complaining about complaining?
You never respond to different visions then yours with curiosity or even 
acknowledge that 
maybe a bit of what we had could've had a positive effect on where we are going.
Why is it so wrong to be sad that the city made virtually no attempt to 
preserve what once 
made it famous?
Take me being upset about the Arthur Pryor bandshell. Did you ever go to a show 
there? I 
did. I played at shows there. It was amazing. If it had been preserved, it 
would be an 
attraction. The brass band that plays on the boardwalk could perform up there 
in a great 
setting. Most of the shows used to be free, but money could be made if it was 
utilized, 
although I love that you once could see a free concert in such an exceptional 
and unique 
setting.
If you truly are on a path toward the enlightenment you seek, you should have a 
more 
open mind and be willing to listen to other voices, because you might learn 
something 
along the way.



--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre gabrielleo...@... wrote:

 when and where did I say I was enlightened? I believe in
 enlightenment, but I am no where near it. If I was I wouldn't be
 responding to anonymous internet trolls. And when and where did I try
 to silence anyone? You don't like what I have to say. I am supposed to
 shut up?
 
 Remember Jack, you are the one who thinks only educated people
 should have a voice. I think everyone should. And use it.
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hinge98@ wrote:
 
  It's amazing that somebody who casts themselves as enlightened finds
 the need to put 
  down and want silence other people who have a different vision then
 yours...
  
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre gabrielleobre@
 wrote:
  
   Good morning newbee, I was wondering where the anonymous malcontent
   was. Just to let you know I drove through town and by the boardwalk
   last night and there were LOTS of people enjoying AP. Spending their
   money eating and drinking and taking up parking spaces and providing
   work for all sorts of people paying sales sales tax etc. But you
   wouldn't know that because you don't live here.
   
   Rafferty's was busy, Brick wall looked busy, Market in the Middle's
   bar looked busy. It was a little early for paradise but there were
   cars in the lot (from my direct experience sat nights are usually
   packed). Stella Marina had people at the Bar upstairs, there were no
   open diagonal parking spaces open along ocean. Langosta appeared busy
   (from what I could see, someone who worked last sat said it was
   jammin). People were going into Wonder Bar.
   
   All this on a freezing evening in the middle of one of the worst
   economic downturns in American history. Well whatya know.
   
   I may be a loner on this board (which I don't mind, I am fiercely
   independent and was taught to stand on my own with out the need of a
   pandering posse) but there were lots of those like me, enjoying
   themselves, spending money and contributing to Asbury's economy last
   night in AP. 
   
   I don't care about the budget anymore. I said this before, the entire
   world is in debt, 13 million for a city in redevelopment is nothing.
   Should the city figure out ways to get some of the green coming in, of
   course, but I'm not about to subject myself to city council meetings
   you and jack can feel free. I know Werner is usually there. I am
   figuring out other ways to serve that don't involve so many egos and
   bullshit.
   
   Maybe you, Werner and Jack should start a complaint and gripe board
   where you can post the same things over and over and over. I'll send
   some healing love over to you, do some tonglen meditation for ya
   before I go out on my tight budget and have some fun dancing with
   others who know how to express the joy of their spirit in community.
   why dont' you come down on the 31st for the bartender mix off. I'll
   spot the 5 bucks for you.
   
   and again, I'll call you on who you really are. I think mark mentioned
   it once. You probably aren't new to ap, just a shit stirrer. maybe a
   failed business owner licking wounds and trying to create misery
   (unhappy people are good at that).
   
   cheers buddy!
   
   
   
   
   
   --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, New Beetoap newbeetoap@ wrote:
   
Holed up in

[AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses

Look Jack, the world and Asbury are what they are. I happen to believe
that if we want the world to be better WE have to be better. Not the
world. Obama isn't our Saviour. Though many seem to behave that way.

I am not using your own beliefs against you, you can't be for free
speech for only the smart people. Any tyranny can choose who should
speak and who shouldn't. Freedom is freedom for everybody even the
people who disagree with you. If you want more tolerance you have to
be tolerant. Take it all personally and be appalled, you are only
hurting yourself. Gandhi wasn't being flippant, we have to be the
change, its not a joke.

I don't mind the complaining about Asbury, it just doesn't seem to be
to effective or constructive. Complaining never is. I used to complain
all the time. What is the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing
over and over and expecting different results.

I could say the same thing about you listening to different voices,
and I am the only one here saying what I am saying.

Don't forget, this city was founded by a bunch of white straight
christian married men. I thank god every day we don't live in that
city anymore. I would be dirt, you would be ok. That's history. I am
not nostalgic for times past, the past is over. There are things from
the past I loved that are gone, the carousel, the ferris wheel those
awesome fun houses that you rode those little carts on. And there are
tons of things in the present I love. The beach bar, the new stone
pony, the lanes, paradise, stella marina, market in the middle,
twisted tree, brick wall. I love looking at the carousel building in
the lights.

I think one of the ways to a more enlightened way of living is love
and acceptance for what IS. From there things change. Like I said
before, if you really want to affect what happens here you have to be
involved, go to city council meetings, join commissions, draw up a
realistic plan for how a music hall of fame would be profitable. No
one is going to take ranting seriously. 

I just don't see evidence that ap is currently some sort of failure.
But time will tell. Do the people at the lanes have a problem with the
music scene? What about the pony? Is live nation in trouble, the
saint? Are there musicians who won't play here or have trouble getting
booked here (assuming they warrant booking).

The bandshell is gone perhaps, but the lanes is here, a pretty cool
place to see a show. Being hung up on what was is just a path to misery.


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hing...@... wrote:

 I honestly think that it's appalling that the freedom of speech that
America's founders 
 fought so hard for has at times become so twisted and ugly.
 When I see people on the internet posting horrible racist comments
about our new 
 president, I simply will not sit back and be silent. I'd love to see
the whole nation become 
 smarter and have a more educated and worldly voice, and I believe
our new president very 
 well may lead us in that direction.
 That being said, if you are going to use my own beliefs against me,
then think about 
 where I'm coming from and what I'm trying to say.
 As for AP, why are you so intent on complaining about complaining?
 You never respond to different visions then yours with curiosity or
even acknowledge that 
 maybe a bit of what we had could've had a positive effect on where
we are going.
 Why is it so wrong to be sad that the city made virtually no attempt
to preserve what once 
 made it famous?
 Take me being upset about the Arthur Pryor bandshell. Did you ever
go to a show there? I 
 did. I played at shows there. It was amazing. If it had been
preserved, it would be an 
 attraction. The brass band that plays on the boardwalk could perform
up there in a great 
 setting. Most of the shows used to be free, but money could be made
if it was utilized, 
 although I love that you once could see a free concert in such an
exceptional and unique 
 setting.
 If you truly are on a path toward the enlightenment you seek, you
should have a more 
 open mind and be willing to listen to other voices, because you
might learn something 
 along the way.
 
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre gabrielleobre@
wrote:
 
  when and where did I say I was enlightened? I believe in
  enlightenment, but I am no where near it. If I was I wouldn't be
  responding to anonymous internet trolls. And when and where did I try
  to silence anyone? You don't like what I have to say. I am supposed to
  shut up?
  
  Remember Jack, you are the one who thinks only educated people
  should have a voice. I think everyone should. And use it.
  
  
  --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hinge98@ wrote:
  
   It's amazing that somebody who casts themselves as enlightened finds
  the need to put 
   down and want silence other people who have a different vision then
  yours...
   
   --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre gabrielleobre@
  wrote:
   
Good morning

[AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses

I don't see Obama as our saviour, I see him as an inspiration, and people all 
over the world 
are saying the same thing. The night he was elected, i said aloud for the first 
time I can 
remember in my adult life that I am proud to be an American
The world and AP doesn't have to be what they are. That kind of attitude 
changes 
nothing.
I do agree that we all should be better, and that's why I have an opinion of 
the absolutely 
horrible things that people post on the internet in stories about Obama. It's 
an incredible 
waste of our core American value of freedom of speech. To me, there is no 
value, nor 
nothing to be learned from somebody calling him an N word, asking Lee Harvey 
Oswald, 
where are you now and on and on. All those comments do is to show how far we 
still 
need to go as a nation.
I also think we've become dumbed down as a culture, and I partially think that 
this very 
medium is responsible. We tend to form our opinions based on soundbytes and 
headlines 
rather then paragraphs and chapters. And statistically, our education system 
lags behind 
many other nations.
Do you understand that when you compare yourself to me, and write What is the 
definition of insanity? Doing the same thing over and over and expecting 
different results. 
that you are being really insulting? Do you understand what you are suggesting?
Finally, I'd love to have the time in my life to be more involved in the city, 
but the fact is I 
commute 70 miles each way to work, 5 days a week, and I often don't get home 
until 8 
pm. I simply don't have the free time that perhaps you do. 
That's why I post on this group. Honestly, I wish our cities website had a 
forum just like 
this one so our voices could be heard. And perhaps you don't realize that 
things that get 
discussed here have actually effected change in the city. That's probably due 
to Jim Keadys  
membership here. 


--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre gabrielleo...@... wrote:

 Look Jack, the world and Asbury are what they are. I happen to believe
 that if we want the world to be better WE have to be better. Not the
 world. Obama isn't our Saviour. Though many seem to behave that way.
 
 I am not using your own beliefs against you, you can't be for free
 speech for only the smart people. Any tyranny can choose who should
 speak and who shouldn't. Freedom is freedom for everybody even the
 people who disagree with you. If you want more tolerance you have to
 be tolerant. Take it all personally and be appalled, you are only
 hurting yourself. Gandhi wasn't being flippant, we have to be the
 change, its not a joke.
 
 I don't mind the complaining about Asbury, it just doesn't seem to be
 to effective or constructive. Complaining never is. I used to complain
 all the time. What is the definition of insanity? Doing the same thing
 over and over and expecting different results.
 
 I could say the same thing about you listening to different voices,
 and I am the only one here saying what I am saying.
 
 Don't forget, this city was founded by a bunch of white straight
 christian married men. I thank god every day we don't live in that
 city anymore. I would be dirt, you would be ok. That's history. I am
 not nostalgic for times past, the past is over. There are things from
 the past I loved that are gone, the carousel, the ferris wheel those
 awesome fun houses that you rode those little carts on. And there are
 tons of things in the present I love. The beach bar, the new stone
 pony, the lanes, paradise, stella marina, market in the middle,
 twisted tree, brick wall. I love looking at the carousel building in
 the lights.
 
 I think one of the ways to a more enlightened way of living is love
 and acceptance for what IS. From there things change. Like I said
 before, if you really want to affect what happens here you have to be
 involved, go to city council meetings, join commissions, draw up a
 realistic plan for how a music hall of fame would be profitable. No
 one is going to take ranting seriously. 
 
 I just don't see evidence that ap is currently some sort of failure.
 But time will tell. Do the people at the lanes have a problem with the
 music scene? What about the pony? Is live nation in trouble, the
 saint? Are there musicians who won't play here or have trouble getting
 booked here (assuming they warrant booking).
 
 The bandshell is gone perhaps, but the lanes is here, a pretty cool
 place to see a show. Being hung up on what was is just a path to misery.
 
 
 --- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Jack Pitzer hinge98@ wrote:
 
  I honestly think that it's appalling that the freedom of speech that
 America's founders 
  fought so hard for has at times become so twisted and ugly.
  When I see people on the internet posting horrible racist comments
 about our new 
  president, I simply will not sit back and be silent. I'd love to see
 the whole nation become 
  smarter and have a more educated and worldly voice, and I believe
 our new

[AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses

2009-01-18 Thread wernerapnj

--- In AsburyPark@yahoogroups.com, Gabrielle Obre gabrielleo...@... wrote:

...a
 
 I just don't see evidence that ap is currently some sort of failure.
...

=

Just because you do not see it doesn't mean it's not there.
Viewing the City from the narrow perspective you have described
would certainly lead to missing a lot.

Werner




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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses

2009-01-18 Thread MarioAPNJ

I thought it was odd of me to somehow agree with all of you (non-anonymous)
contributors to this thread. All different points of view, but living here
and with a passion for Asbury Park.

But then got another promo email for Nicle Atkins' CD, Neptune City. And
it reminded me of all you've been saying:

The shores of New Jersey are littered with small towns whose better days are
far in the past. They’re towns that have been written about, and sung over;
towns that have been mythologized and idealized; and they are the towns that
28-year-old musician Nicole Atkins–a native of Neptune City, located a stones
throw from fabled Asbury Park was born and raised. They can be places steeped
in their own history, buried under the sense of their own pasts. Places of
hey-days and what-once-was.
[N.B.especially]And it’s that sense of something lost and of what perhaps
should have been, and what might be, that permeates Atkins’s debut, Neptune
City.
The characters in her tunes seem to live in an idealized past. “This record
is the history of my town; it’s the history of my family and friend in this
town,” she explains. “From the time I was a kid I started collecting these sad
little tragically beautiful personal stories from the people in my life, and
my own as well. That sense of history really appeals to me as an artist.”

Even the track titles resonate: The Way it is, War Torn, Cool Enough, Love
Surreal; except for the last one, Party's Over.

And from Customer reviews at Amazon:

Maybe Tonight encapsulates the restless hope that permeates the entire
record. By the time the chorus hits, you are forced into the corner that
demands
you be either crushed by the broken promises or lifted up despite them.

And:

And sure enough, after trying on other cities and countries for size, she's
ended up right back in Asbury Park, just next door to the place which, as she
said in Neptune City, she wasn't sure if she could go home to again.

===

Criticism coming from a tough love for Asbury Park is good. And so is an
insistence to Celebrate Asbury Park now and the various passions of those who
live here.

For the next few days I'll be distracted celebrating the Inauguration.

Happy America!

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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Re: [AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses

2009-01-18 Thread MarioAPNJ

In a message dated 1/18/2009 8:29:47 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
marioa...@aol.com writes:

But then  got another promo email for Nicle Atkins'  CD, Neptune City.  And 
 
it reminded me of all you've been  saying:
 
===
 
 

In case that blurb appeared as wing dings here's the link it came from: 
 
_http://tinyurl.com/9larv6_ (http://tinyurl.com/9larv6) 
 
or
 
_New  Music Minute featuring Ingrid Michaelson Nicole Atkins | Neophiliacs_ 
(http://www.neophiliacs.com/new-music-minute-featuring-ingrid-michaelson-nicole-
atkins/)  

**A Good Credit Score is 700 or Above. See yours in just 2 easy 
steps! 
(http://pr.atwola.com/promoclk/10075x1215855013x1201028747/aol?redir=http://www.freecreditreport.com/pm/default.aspx?sc=668072%26hmpgID=62%26bcd=De
cemailfooterNO62)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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[AsburyPark] Re: Reality vs Rose Colored Glasses