Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 SoftHangup on SPA-3000
It is probably a SPA-3000 problem. I have tried a similar setup (not for 911, I need to hangup a phone) and it works with ISDN phones and Swisswoice SIP phone, but not with BudgetOne, for example. The phone just won't drop the line for some reason. Hope this helps. John Goerzen wrote: Hi, I have a SPA-3000 and would like to use the 911 recipe from http://www.voip-info.org/wiki-Asterisk+tips+911. So I took the simple recipe and modified it slightly: exten = 911,1,ChanIsAvail(SIP/potsoutbound) exten = 911,2,Dial(SIP/potsoutbound/911) exten = 911,3,Hangup() exten = 911,102,SoftHangup(SIP/potsoutbound) exten = 911,103,Wait(1) exten = 911,104,Goto(1) Now, I made the appropriate changes -- Changing Zap/1 to SIP/postoutbound. Things are working fine if nobody is using the line. However, if people are using the line, ChanIsAvail doesn't detect it. I thought -- fine, make 103 be a SoftHangup so that when Dial detects the in-use condition, it will hang up. Well, asterisk -vvv shows that the SoftHangup command is running, but it's not causing the SPA-3000 to drop the line, so this creates an endless loop. I have tried the a option to SoftHangup. Any ideas? Thanks, John ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
[Asterisk-Users] 911 SoftHangup on SPA-3000
Hi, I have a SPA-3000 and would like to use the 911 recipe from http://www.voip-info.org/wiki-Asterisk+tips+911. So I took the simple recipe and modified it slightly: exten = 911,1,ChanIsAvail(SIP/potsoutbound) exten = 911,2,Dial(SIP/potsoutbound/911) exten = 911,3,Hangup() exten = 911,102,SoftHangup(SIP/potsoutbound) exten = 911,103,Wait(1) exten = 911,104,Goto(1) Now, I made the appropriate changes -- Changing Zap/1 to SIP/postoutbound. Things are working fine if nobody is using the line. However, if people are using the line, ChanIsAvail doesn't detect it. I thought -- fine, make 103 be a SoftHangup so that when Dial detects the in-use condition, it will hang up. Well, asterisk -vvv shows that the SoftHangup command is running, but it's not causing the SPA-3000 to drop the line, so this creates an endless loop. I have tried the a option to SoftHangup. Any ideas? Thanks, John ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] 911 SoftHangup on SPA-3000
Might be a good idea if we didn't post such scripts.. How many people are going to accidently call 911 while trying to test this? Use a test number, like 611 or 411 or how about your boss's cell phone ? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Goerzen Sent: Friday, March 25, 2005 6:38 PM To: asterisk-users@lists.digium.com Subject: [Asterisk-Users] 911 SoftHangup on SPA-3000 Hi, I have a SPA-3000 and would like to use the 911 recipe from http://www.voip-info.org/wiki-Asterisk+tips+911. So I took the simple recipe and modified it slightly: exten = 911,1,ChanIsAvail(SIP/potsoutbound) exten = 911,2,Dial(SIP/potsoutbound/911) exten = 911,3,Hangup() exten = 911,102,SoftHangup(SIP/potsoutbound) exten = 911,103,Wait(1) exten = 911,104,Goto(1) Now, I made the appropriate changes -- Changing Zap/1 to SIP/postoutbound. Things are working fine if nobody is using the line. However, if people are using the line, ChanIsAvail doesn't detect it. I thought -- fine, make 103 be a SoftHangup so that when Dial detects the in-use condition, it will hang up. Well, asterisk -vvv shows that the SoftHangup command is running, but it's not causing the SPA-3000 to drop the line, so this creates an endless loop. I have tried the a option to SoftHangup. Any ideas? Thanks, John ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
[Asterisk-Users] 911 and Cops knocking on my door
Hi, I am quite new to asterisk so I am not sure what is needed to figure out this problem. If more information is needed and not provided I will gladly provide it. I have a very basic asterisk setup. 1 x100p card and a grandstream handytone 286. I can make calls fine to most phone numbers from the handytone device the trouble seems to come when I dial this number 591-1079. It puts me through to the local 911 dispatch. Causing the police to show up at my doorstep and check to make sure everything is alright. I can see why I think; 5 911 079. But I don't understand why it is being handled this way. Can somebody offer me some guidance on how to get this to stop? TIA _ /-\ ndrew ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and Cops knocking on my door
Andrew, can you post your extensions.conf to the list please? Kyle On Feb 2, 2005, at 2:15 PM, Andrew Niemantsverdriet wrote: Hi, I am quite new to asterisk so I am not sure what is needed to figure out this problem. If more information is needed and not provided I will gladly provide it. I have a very basic asterisk setup. 1 x100p card and a grandstream handytone 286. I can make calls fine to most phone numbers from the handytone device the trouble seems to come when I dial this number 591-1079. It puts me through to the local 911 dispatch. Causing the police to show up at my doorstep and check to make sure everything is alright. I can see why I think; 5 911 079. But I don't understand why it is being handled this way. Can somebody offer me some guidance on how to get this to stop? TIA _ /-\ ndrew ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and Cops knocking on my door
Fix your dial-plan in extensions.conf so that the first digit isn't getting dropped. If you're using a traditional dial plan, you press 9 to get out so many default configs will drop the first digit when sending the string out to the carrier. You appear to be getting outside without the 9 so therefore you're still dropping one too many digits when you go out. On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 14:15:28 -0700, Andrew Niemantsverdriet [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I am quite new to asterisk so I am not sure what is needed to figure out this problem. If more information is needed and not provided I will gladly provide it. I have a very basic asterisk setup. 1 x100p card and a grandstream handytone 286. I can make calls fine to most phone numbers from the handytone device the trouble seems to come when I dial this number 591-1079. It puts me through to the local 911 dispatch. Causing the police to show up at my doorstep and check to make sure everything is alright. I can see why I think; 5 911 079. But I don't understand why it is being handled this way. Can somebody offer me some guidance on how to get this to stop? TIA _ /-\ ndrew ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and Cops knocking on my door
Can you post your outbound portion of your extensions.conf? --- Kelly D Griffin Network Engineer Tantella Wireless http://tantella.com 800.636.0306 Voice 479.464.8998 Fax -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andrew Niemantsverdriet Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2005 3:15 PM To: Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com Subject: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and Cops knocking on my door Hi, I am quite new to asterisk so I am not sure what is needed to figure out this problem. If more information is needed and not provided I will gladly provide it. I have a very basic asterisk setup. 1 x100p card and a grandstream handytone 286. I can make calls fine to most phone numbers from the handytone device the trouble seems to come when I dial this number 591-1079. It puts me through to the local 911 dispatch. Causing the police to show up at my doorstep and check to make sure everything is alright. I can see why I think; 5 911 079. But I don't understand why it is being handled this way. Can somebody offer me some guidance on how to get this to stop? TIA _ /-\ ndrew ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and Cops knocking on my door
On February 2, 2005 04:15 pm, Andrew Niemantsverdriet wrote: I can see why I think; 5 911 079. But I don't understand why it is being handled this way. Can somebody offer me some guidance on how to get this to stop? Your FXO card missed the '5', that's all. Or maybe Asterisk did. Or maybe you did. What do your CDR records show, a call to 5911079 or 911079? -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and Cops knocking on my door
Try dialing 591-2079 and see if you're trying to make a call to 91-2079 instead of 591-2079. -m On Wed, 2 Feb 2005, Andrew Niemantsverdriet wrote: Hi, I am quite new to asterisk so I am not sure what is needed to figure out this problem. If more information is needed and not provided I will gladly provide it. I have a very basic asterisk setup. 1 x100p card and a grandstream handytone 286. I can make calls fine to most phone numbers from the handytone device the trouble seems to come when I dial this number 591-1079. It puts me through to the local 911 dispatch. Causing the police to show up at my doorstep and check to make sure everything is alright. I can see why I think; 5 911 079. But I don't understand why it is being handled this way. Can somebody offer me some guidance on how to get this to stop? TIA _ /-\ ndrew ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and Cops knocking on my door
looks like an ignorepat problem on the first *number* (single) dialed (i.e., trying to ignore the number 9 on an outbound call.) try to make a call to 591-2079. - Yeah, we rocked the vote all right. Those little bastards betrayed us again. - Hunter S. Thompson on the 2004 election. On Wed, 2 Feb 2005, Andrew Niemantsverdriet wrote: Hi, I am quite new to asterisk so I am not sure what is needed to figure out this problem. If more information is needed and not provided I will gladly provide it. I have a very basic asterisk setup. 1 x100p card and a grandstream handytone 286. I can make calls fine to most phone numbers from the handytone device the trouble seems to come when I dial this number 591-1079. It puts me through to the local 911 dispatch. Causing the police to show up at my doorstep and check to make sure everything is alright. I can see why I think; 5 911 079. But I don't understand why it is being handled this way. Can somebody offer me some guidance on how to get this to stop? TIA _ /-\ ndrew ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and Cops knocking on my door
post your dialplan from extensions.conf On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 14:15:28 -0700, Andrew Niemantsverdriet [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I am quite new to asterisk so I am not sure what is needed to figure out this problem. If more information is needed and not provided I will gladly provide it. I have a very basic asterisk setup. 1 x100p card and a grandstream handytone 286. I can make calls fine to most phone numbers from the handytone device the trouble seems to come when I dial this number 591-1079. It puts me through to the local 911 dispatch. Causing the police to show up at my doorstep and check to make sure everything is alright. I can see why I think; 5 911 079. But I don't understand why it is being handled this way. Can somebody offer me some guidance on how to get this to stop? TIA _ /-\ ndrew ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and Cops knocking on my door
yep, post your conf. On Wed, 2 Feb 2005, AJ Grinnell wrote: post your dialplan from extensions.conf On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 14:15:28 -0700, Andrew Niemantsverdriet [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I am quite new to asterisk so I am not sure what is needed to figure out this problem. If more information is needed and not provided I will gladly provide it. I have a very basic asterisk setup. 1 x100p card and a grandstream handytone 286. I can make calls fine to most phone numbers from the handytone device the trouble seems to come when I dial this number 591-1079. It puts me through to the local 911 dispatch. Causing the police to show up at my doorstep and check to make sure everything is alright. I can see why I think; 5 911 079. But I don't understand why it is being handled this way. Can somebody offer me some guidance on how to get this to stop? TIA _ /-\ ndrew ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and Cops knocking on my door
Being a Newb I don't know how to look at my CDR, could you tell me. On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 16:21:10 -0500, Andrew Kohlsmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On February 2, 2005 04:15 pm, Andrew Niemantsverdriet wrote: I can see why I think; 5 911 079. But I don't understand why it is being handled this way. Can somebody offer me some guidance on how to get this to stop? Your FXO card missed the '5', that's all. Or maybe Asterisk did. Or maybe you did. What do your CDR records show, a call to 5911079 or 911079? -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and Cops knocking on my door
I figured out how to view it. Here is what it says: # cat /var/log/asterisk/cdr-csv/Master.csv | grep 911 ,2000,5911079,from-sip-internal,Andrew Niemants 2000,SIP/2000-a509,Zap/1-1,Hangup,,2005-02-02 14:24:05,2005-02-02 14:24:08,2005-02-02 14:24:57,52,49,ANSWERED,DOCUMENTATION So it looks to me like something else went wrong. _ /-\ ndrew On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 15:31:51 -0700, Andrew Niemantsverdriet [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Being a Newb I don't know how to look at my CDR, could you tell me. On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 16:21:10 -0500, Andrew Kohlsmith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On February 2, 2005 04:15 pm, Andrew Niemantsverdriet wrote: I can see why I think; 5 911 079. But I don't understand why it is being handled this way. Can somebody offer me some guidance on how to get this to stop? Your FXO card missed the '5', that's all. Or maybe Asterisk did. Or maybe you did. What do your CDR records show, a call to 5911079 or 911079? -A. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and Cops knocking on my door
On Wed, 2 Feb 2005 15:51:53 -0700, Andrew Niemantsverdriet
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So it looks to me like something else went wrong.
If you took your dial line right from the samples you likely still
have a ${EXTEN:{TRUNKMSD}}
That variable TRUNKMSD is probably stripping off the first digit. If
that is there, you need to get rid of it.
Your dial line should be Dial(${TRUNK}/${EXTEN},30)
-Chuji
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Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and Cops knocking on my door
Andrew, What happens when you dial other numbers? Is it stripped on those as well? Can you look in your zapata.conf for stripmsd=1 ? Kyle On Feb 2, 2005, at 3:51 PM, Andrew Niemantsverdriet wrote: I figured out how to view it. Here is what it says: # cat /var/log/asterisk/cdr-csv/Master.csv | grep 911 ,2000,5911079,from-sip-internal,Andrew Niemants 2000,SIP/2000-a509,Zap/1-1,Hangup,,2005-02-02 14:24:05,2005-02-02 14:24:08,2005-02-02 14:24:57,52,49,ANSWERED,DOCUMENTATION So it looks to me like something else went wrong. _ /-\ ndrew ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list Asterisk-Users@lists.digium.com http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] 911 emergency service and VoIP
Joe, This is highly implementation specific. Perhaps I can give you some pointers to help you out. BTW, if you just happen to be in Texas, I can provide you with a list. Regular 911 calls are answered by a PSAP. Voip calls also goto a PSAP, but are handled differently. In fact, in most regions there aren't clear ways of handling these calls as of yet. Here are some pointers. 1. Do NOT call the PSAP. They are very busy, and in general are the WRONG organization to contact. Instead you want the 911 Agency for the area you are to serve. This is either a Council Of Governments or an Emergency Communications District depending on when it was formed. For example, here in Houston, the 911 Agency just happens to be the Harris County ECD. The Houston 911 Agency's website is (coincidential) http://www.911.org You must MUST start with them before you do ANYTHING 911. Certifications are required. http://www.nena.org is a good starting point.. Use search 2. If you are going to do 911, you must send LOCATION (ie: address) information to the 911 database. I do this through Intrado http://www.intrado.com through a product called data exchange 3. Depending on your connectivity, understand that the 911 agency and PSAP don't care what technology you use to connect to your customer. So if you can provide ANI, you are pretty much good to go. 4. For what it's worth; my traditional VoIP service offering will deliver 911 calls in the indentical manner as my non VoIP calls. If you'd like to talk specifics I can help you but I'd have to request that we take it off list since I feel that it is outside of the scope of the list. You can reach me at [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Brett -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Joe Baptista Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2004 8:35 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Asterisk-Users] 911 emergency service and VoIP I understand that most VoIP providers allow for 911 calling but that 911 service is not the same as that available to PSTN. From what I understand a 911 Call Will Go To A General Access Line at the Public Safety Answering Point (PSAP). This is different from the 911 Emergency Response Center where traditional 911 calls go. Does anyone know how I can get information on howto contact the people at the Public Safety Answering Points (PSAPs)? Is there alist somewhere I can reference. thanks joe baptista ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 emergency service and VoIP
Joe Baptista wrote: I understand that most VoIP providers allow for 911 calling but that 911 service is not the same as that available to PSTN. From what I understand a 911 Call Will Go To A General Access Line at the Public Safety Answering Point (PSAP). This is different from the 911 Emergency Response Center where traditional 911 calls go. Does anyone know how I can get information on howto contact the people at the Public Safety Answering Points (PSAPs)? Is there alist somewhere I can reference. thanks joe baptista Joe, You are slightly confused. Let me explain how it works. When you place a 911 call, it is sent to the 911 selective router at the [I/C]LEC. The 911 selective router does an ALI (Automatic Location Identification) dip against the ANI (Automatic Number Identification) that is present on the call. The ANI is going to be the CallerID number that you/your provider present. When the ALI information is returned to the 911 selective router, it makes the decision which PSAP to send your call to based on the location in the ALI. The call is then routed to the PSAP. The PSAP gets the call and the ANI. They in turn do an ALI dig against the ANI to get the location information on their screens. If no ALI is present in the database for the ANI you're using, the call is default routed to the county PSAP because no positive route can be established without ALI information. When you call 911 without ALI information present, it is 911 service. When you make a call from an ANI that has accurate ALI information, you are using E911 or Enhanced 911 service. If you have PRI service into your * server, it is possible - though not always easy - to set the ALI database information specific for each ANI (DID number) that you use. I do this with our PRI's. Depending on which number we present to the telco, the ALI is different. Now, what you describe might very well be how Vonage and other providers are providing 911 access but, it is most definately NOT even basic 911 as it doesn't go to the PSAP, even the default-route PSAP. It is simply them mapping 911 calls to go to NPA-NXX-NXXX instead. John ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 emergency service and VoIP
On Thursday 17 June 2004 11:38, John Fraizer wrote: If you have PRI service into your * server, it is possible - though not always easy - to set the ALI database information specific for each ANI (DID number) that you use. I do this with our PRI's. Depending on which number we present to the telco, the ALI is different. Do you have information on how to do this? This is *precisely* what I want to do. I assumed you set this up with your telco and then set the caller ID to the # matching the address you wanted, leaving the telco to do the address match. Regards, Andrew ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 emergency service and VoIP
Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: On Thursday 17 June 2004 11:38, John Fraizer wrote: If you have PRI service into your * server, it is possible - though not always easy - to set the ALI database information specific for each ANI (DID number) that you use. I do this with our PRI's. Depending on which number we present to the telco, the ALI is different. Do you have information on how to do this? This is *precisely* what I want to do. I assumed you set this up with your telco and then set the caller ID to the # matching the address you wanted, leaving the telco to do the address match. Regards, Andrew The service that you need from your telco is called PS/ALI or Private Switch/Automatic Location Identification. Most phone companies are *capable* of doing this. The sales critters generally don't know what the ^#@@ you're talking about though so, ask them to get their 911 coordinator involved. The 911 coordinator will know EXACTLY what you're talking about. And yes, the location information (ALI) is held in a database outside of your system. You simply send the appropriate ANI information and the ALI is mapped to it. If you put a phone in at 123 E. Main Street with a DID of 123-456-7890, you update the ALI information for 123-456-7890 to match. John ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 emergency service and VoIP
Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: Do you have information on how to do this? This is *precisely* what I want to do. I assumed you set this up with your telco and then set the caller ID to the # matching the address you wanted, leaving the telco to do the address match. In discussions with my telco, they are very unwilling to do this, because they don't want to be responsible for making these database changes (too much liability involved). Just imagine what would happen if you move a phone, mandating an ALI update for the associated DID number, send that update request to the telco, and it takes them 24 hours to make the change, during which time that phone is used to call 911 and help is dispatched to the wrong location :-( If the situation was life-threatening, someone could die. They don't want to be even remotely responsible for that. In the normal case, they set up the ALI information _once_ when you order your service, and make changes only when you physically move services. PS/ALI pushes the ALI update burden onto you, which is where it belongs. You can then deal with the liability issues with your customers, and the telco is out of the loop (no pun intended). ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 emergency service and VoIP
Kevin P. Fleming wrote: Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: Do you have information on how to do this? This is *precisely* what I want to do. I assumed you set this up with your telco and then set the caller ID to the # matching the address you wanted, leaving the telco to do the address match. In discussions with my telco, they are very unwilling to do this, because they don't want to be responsible for making these database changes (too much liability involved). Just imagine what would happen if you move a phone, mandating an ALI update for the associated DID number, send that update request to the telco, and it takes them 24 hours to make the change, during which time that phone is used to call 911 and help is dispatched to the wrong location :-( If the situation was life-threatening, someone could die. They don't want to be even remotely responsible for that. In the normal case, they set up the ALI information _once_ when you order your service, and make changes only when you physically move services. PS/ALI pushes the ALI update burden onto you, which is where it belongs. You can then deal with the liability issues with your customers, and the telco is out of the loop (no pun intended). Your telco really can't *prevent* you from doing PS/ALI. They don't have to make it easy though. Even with PS/ALI, the same database is updated. It's just you doing the update vs the telco doing it. Doing things the Right Way TM isn't always easy but, in the end, it is going to be the best. Getting set up to do PS/ALI isn't free either but, when you can tell your customers that they will have E911 service vs simple 911 - non-emergency number mapping, it gives you a sales advantage. If your telco doesn't want to (1) Update the ALI records as you request or (2) Provide you with a PS/ALI mechanism, I suggest that you get your public utilities commission involved in the loop. John ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 emergency service and VoIP
John Fraizer wrote: Your telco really can't *prevent* you from doing PS/ALI. They don't have to make it easy though. Even with PS/ALI, the same database is updated. It's just you doing the update vs the telco doing it. Doing things the Right Way TM isn't always easy but, in the end, it is going to be the best. Getting set up to do PS/ALI isn't free either but, when you can tell your customers that they will have E911 service vs simple 911 - non-emergency number mapping, it gives you a sales advantage. If your telco doesn't want to (1) Update the ALI records as you request or (2) Provide you with a PS/ALI mechanism, I suggest that you get your public utilities commission involved in the loop. I must have misspoke, or you misunderstood... my telco is happy to help me get set up for PS/ALI. In fact, that's the only method they've offered for me to be able to do E911 from my VOIP termination service (which is not yet installed G). What they will _not_ do is manage the ALI information for my PRI line(s) and DID numbers, except at installation and service-move time only. I personally don't blame them one bit for this position; if they can help me get set up for PS/ALI, that's the best solution for all concerned. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
[Asterisk-Users] 911 emergency service and VoIP
I understand that most VoIP providers allow for 911 calling but that 911 service is not the same as that available to PSTN. From what I understand a 911 Call Will Go To A General Access Line at the Public Safety Answering Point (PSAP). This is different from the 911 Emergency Response Center where traditional 911 calls go. Does anyone know how I can get information on howto contact the people at the Public Safety Answering Points (PSAPs)? Is there alist somewhere I can reference. thanks joe baptista ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 emergency service and VoIP
On Wed, 16 Jun 2004, Joe Baptista wrote: Does anyone know how I can get information on howto contact the people at the Public Safety Answering Points (PSAPs)? Is there alist somewhere I can reference. well, you could dial 911.. ;) But more seriously, I think I'd start by calling the non-emergency number for the local police/sheriff/fire dept and asking the dispatcher. Or maybe look up the Public Safety Commission (?) in the phonebook.. I'll be needing to give some attention to this issue soon, so I'll be interested to hear how the interaction with them goes. Greg ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and lawsuits and redundancy
Jonathan, My take on redundancy is to use a real server with disk mirroring and redundant power supplies. I would be very interested to hear your progress on this project as I am sure most everyone would be. Please keep us updated on it. Thanks, Steve Totaro - Original Message - From: Jonathan Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 9:34 AM Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and lawsuits and redundancy This is esp true of any VoIP PBX system. In fact I think many of them run Windows. I do have a related question about how * users are creating redundancy in thier setups? I am going live in a few days with a single office setup where I have patched the * PBX in front of our existing legacy phone system, giving us auto attendent and voice mail, plus the potential to do a large scale test of IP phones. If successful the next step is a 150-400 station multi-office setup. Most calls are inter-building such that we currently only need 6 outbound lines to the PSTN. -- Jonathan Moore Director of Technology Winfield Public Schools Office 620.221.5100 Fax 620.221.0508 Quoting Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Tue, 2004-01-06 at 10:56, Jim Flagg wrote: Just curious if any of the Asterisk installers are doing anything special to protect themselves from a possible lawsuit caused by 911 failure during a Asterisk/computer crash? I realize that any traditional PBX or even a phone line can fail but, anything running on a computer is probably going to be less reliable than most PBXs. What do you think most PBXs are? Maybe not a x86, but it is a computer. Anybody requiring customers to acknowledge and sign any kind of waiver? Just the legal fees of defending yourself in a lawsuit could sink most Asterisk installers. Good question otherwise. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users Visit Winfield Public Schools at http://usd465.com - This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and lawsuits
There are several state regulations that any facility over 40,000 sq feet must use enhanced 911. In June 2000, Illinois enacted the Illinois Emergency Telephone Act, which requires business to put the enhanced 911 systems in place. The Illinois law affects entities that have a private branch exchange (PBX) or Centrex telephone system (requiring a caller to dial 9 for an outside line), occupy 40,000 square feet or more, or have multiple buildings sharing the same address. Seven other states have since followed- Colorado, Kentucky, Mississippi, New Hampshire, Texas, Vermont, and Washington. Quoted from http://www.findarticles.com/cf_dls/m0BJK/5_12/73925177/p1/article.jhtml Might be federal by now. I dont think a waiver is going to cut it but it couldnt hurt. Thanks, Steve Totaro - Original Message - From: Jon Pounder [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 9:42 AM Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and lawsuits ever notice the spec sheets from semiconductor manufacturers specifically exclude the device from being used for medical applications ? do something similar with asterisk - put a sticker on the box saying not 911 rated or something, use at your own risk. I wouldn't be caught dead (well maybe I would be :) ) without a plain old phone set plugged directly into one of my analog lines to use in an emergency. Lots of telco equipment comes with an emergency jack as well where if the device loses power, or self destructs or whatever, this is mechanically shunted over to the primary analog line with a relay that drops out when it loses power. The phone does not have to necessarily be at the pbx either, it could be brought out to the reception desk etc. On Tue, 2004-01-06 at 10:56, Jim Flagg wrote: Just curious if any of the Asterisk installers are doing anything special to protect themselves from a possible lawsuit caused by 911 failure during a Asterisk/computer crash? I realize that any traditional PBX or even a phone line can fail but, anything running on a computer is probably going to be less reliable than most PBXs. What do you think most PBXs are? Maybe not a x86, but it is a computer. Anybody requiring customers to acknowledge and sign any kind of waiver? Just the legal fees of defending yourself in a lawsuit could sink most Asterisk installers. Good question otherwise. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and lawsuits and redundancy
My take on redundancy is to use a real server with disk mirroring and redundant power supplies. That's hardly redundant. What if you lose a disk controller? Or any part of the motherboard? Or CPU? Power supplies can and have failed in ways that manage to take out system components. :-) Regards, Andrew ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and lawsuits and redundancy
On Thu, 2004-01-08 at 09:31, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: My take on redundancy is to use a real server with disk mirroring and redundant power supplies. That's hardly redundant. What if you lose a disk controller? Or any part of the motherboard? Or CPU? Power supplies can and have failed in ways that manage to take out system components. :-) While that is true, redundant PSUs are less likely to take out other components on it's way out as each of the PSUs have to monitor themselves to detect when they have a failure. You still have to be able to swap them out before you loose your redundancy though. SCSI controllers shouldn't get spooked by drive failures. Just choose good controllers. This can be difficult as you find out that even Adaptec has been known to have controllers that don't work well under some loads in linux. Dell has a mailing list that basically is devoted to the fixing of the card/driver for one of their RAID controllers. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and lawsuits and redundancy
SCSI controllers shouldn't get spooked by drive failures. Just choose good controllers. This can be difficult as you find out that even Adaptec has been known to have controllers that don't work well under some loads in linux. Dell has a mailing list that basically is devoted to the fixing of the card/driver for one of their RAID controllers. Actually I was referring to the controller itself giving up the ghost -- not losing a drive and having the controller freak out. :-) In the end it's all just a big game of acceptable risk -- In my particular situation I can handle being down for an hour while I hack together a replacement system, so redundant power supplies aren't an issue. Redundant disks are but if the controller fries it's no biggie. Regards, Andrew ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and lawsuits
Hi Tony, Only used IOWA because I am all the way in NYC. It is very central and advanced as far as I am concerned. Next time I will say NEW JERSEY. Ask the 911 operations center managers about NENA. They should know about it. NENA (National Emergency Number Association) are the ones who try to make policy for E911. Very respected (I believe all volunteers) people in the 911 community with great knowledge of the issues. Thank you. Phil Menico -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Tony Kava Sent: Wednesday, January 07, 2004 5:55 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: RE: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and lawsuits Now imagine this person having his SIP phone in IOWA talking to the the telephone switch in New York via VPN and dialing 911. The call will go to NYPD. Why is it the theoretical VoIP user in such examples always seems to be from Iowa or Nebraska? I feel compelled to state that not all people from these states are farmers with pitchforks and SIP phones. I personally live in Omaha, Nebraska, a city I that the Census Bureau indicates I share with 390,006 others, and that may not even include the suburbs. I respectfully request that future examples use other sparsely populated states such as Montana or perhaps a Canadian province from time-to-time. On a more serious note this thread has been very interesting, and this 911 issue will be very important to our organization in the near future. Luckily the 911 operations center is located in our basement so collaboration is easier for us, but when we roll out VoIP we will need to address the redundancy issues and the location issues for remote offices just like any other business. -- Tony Kava Senior Network Administrator Pottawattamie County, Iowa ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and lawsuits and redundancy
On Thu, 2004-01-08 at 10:26, Andrew Kohlsmith wrote: SCSI controllers shouldn't get spooked by drive failures. Just choose good controllers. This can be difficult as you find out that even Adaptec has been known to have controllers that don't work well under some loads in linux. Dell has a mailing list that basically is devoted to the fixing of the card/driver for one of their RAID controllers. Actually I was referring to the controller itself giving up the ghost -- not losing a drive and having the controller freak out. :-) In the end it's all just a big game of acceptable risk -- In my particular situation I can handle being down for an hour while I hack together a replacement system, so redundant power supplies aren't an issue. Redundant disks are but if the controller fries it's no biggie. Agreed about the acceptable risk. So what is acceptable is defined a bit by recovery time and effort. I have 2 asterisk machines that recovery time must absolutely be minimal. Luckily one machine has no special hardware, and the software and configs are routinely backed up. The one with special hardware(T400P) can be replaced quickly. I have a T100P at home that I can use and the machine in the office has a T100P in it. This would get our minimal port density we need at the moment. I would say that redundant PSUs are important though. I can point out a time when my company had to do maintenance to our rack hardware. With all the machines in the rack enjoying dual PSUs, we where able to carefully remove the machines from the rack and reroute power away from the rack while all machines stayed up and running. We then where able to reinstall the machines in the rack after maintenance again without ever powering down the machines. While I wouldn't suggest anyone do what we did, nor suggest you buy redundant PSUs just so it is possible to do what we did, but that was a side benefit. The whole Idea of putting your switch on redundant UPSs also is nice as you don't always know your UPS will behave until it is tested. Another similar note from experience. We have a large UPS with 5 external sealed batteries almost car sized. While moving some stuff around the area where that UPS was located, the connector for the external batteries became disconnected. It wasn't till we had a power failure did we notice the UPS couldn't handle the load we had placed on it. Had we used the dual PSUs on our office phone switch on different circuits then we wouldn't have lost the phones. But in this case, we did have a failure. One failure showed 2 problems. In our case we had just popped a breaker and lost power to a wall of our office. That in itself is poor electrical planning. This failure pointed out our UPS wasn't properly set up to handle the load for more than a few minutes without the external batteries. Anyways, while hotswap PSUs may not be important, any machine that is important is important enough for redundant supplies. It doesn't add much to the cost of the case and is a good insurance policy. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and lawsuits and redundancy
Quoting Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Anyways, while hotswap PSUs may not be important, any machine that is important is important enough for redundant supplies. It doesn't add much to the cost of the case and is a good insurance policy. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] Any suggestions for a good case with dual psus? I am using an existing computer during our production test, but I want to pretty quickly build something permanent, preferably rack mountable. Visit Winfield Public Schools at http://usd465.com - This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and lawsuits and redundancy
On Thu, 2004-01-08 at 18:55, Jonathan Moore wrote: Quoting Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Anyways, while hotswap PSUs may not be important, any machine that is important is important enough for redundant supplies. It doesn't add much to the cost of the case and is a good insurance policy. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] Any suggestions for a good case with dual psus? I am using an existing computer during our production test, but I want to pretty quickly build something permanent, preferably rack mountable. Look at Super Micro 2u or larger systems. For rack mount systems, it is almost worth it to go ahead and get the whole system from one place. Super Micro is good. We also use Dells. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users To UNSUBSCRIBE or update options visit: http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and lawsuits
Terence, Thank you for sharing your thoughts on our judicial system. I am glad you are there and I am here. (i'm not under jurisdiction of a ridiculous judicial system) Anyway, I work in the 911 arena and in the US many states mandate that you have E911 (identify the persons location and call back number to the PSAP) depending on how much space your facility covers. Imagine a company that is in a multi-building campus or multi-floor high rise environment and an employee dials 911 and all the police get is the trunk number at the police station. Imagine if he then faints and cannot tell the PSAP where he is. In classic PBX's the telephone stations are more static and any moves and changes are more hardwired and the changes are sent to the Telco (PS/ALI) database. In VoIP the users are much more mobile. They can pick up their Telephone (VoIP device) go somewhere else and plug into a network jack and call 911. Now imagine this person having his SIP phone in IOWA talking to the the telephone switch in New York via VPN and dialing 911. The call will go to NYPD. There is an organization called NENA that creates guidelines for 911 which most PBX vendors follow. The VoIP issue and 911 is a very big issue and no one has an absolute solution (even though some claim they do). The problem is really discovery of phone devices on the network end points(which end switch and port they are plugged into, gets worse with wireless). The 911 issue is very real for large installations. For smaller ones make sure you put an analog phone at the line coming from the CO or have a single POTS line (usually a FAX line) to use in an emergency. As far as dial tone, yes, even the big PBX's fail but they have 99.999% (at least they claim?) uptime. The cheaper PC you provide the more failures. In one company we put an enhanced 911 system and in the first week a persons life was saved because of it. Don't take 911 lightly, its to save lives not to save law suits. Thank you. Phil Menico -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Terence Parker Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 12:43 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and lawsuits It's just as well that here in Hong Kong employers don't have to worry about being sued by their staff tripping over their own laces ; or microwave oven manufacturers getting sued by old ladies drying off their poodle ; or supermarket owners getting sued by stupid customers who trip over their own kids. In most countries cases such as these would be thrown out the minute they are filed. Of course, these are slight exaggerations insofar as asterisk is concerned - because being able to dial 911 (or 999 as it is in this part of the world) is a much more 'genuine' problem. But nonetheless, it should be the responsibility of the implementor of such a system to ensure that there are adequate measures taken against system failure - such as UPS, or even a primitive analogue phone line somewhere in the home/office. Though I cannot possibly comment regarding 'fear of being prosecuted', simply because I have no reason to fear (i'm not under jurisdiction of a ridiculous judicial system) - I would say that it is a huge shame that a group of people all with the common goal of contributing towards free software projects such as this should even have to worry about things such as lawsuits. If there are people out there who have problems with asterisk, I suggest they just don't use it. To go as far as suing - that is just taking the piss! (sorry, can't think of equivalent non-British term). Terence Just curious if any of the Asterisk installers are doing anything special to protect themselves from a possible lawsuit caused by 911 failure during a Asterisk/computer crash? I realize that any traditional PBX or even a phone line can fail but, anything running on a computer is probably going to be less reliable than most PBXs. What do you think most PBXs are? Maybe not a x86, but it is a computer. Anybody requiring customers to acknowledge and sign any kind of waiver? Just the legal fees of defending yourself in a lawsuit could sink most Asterisk installers. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and lawsuits
Now imagine this person having his SIP phone in IOWA talking to the the telephone switch in New York via VPN and dialing 911. The call will go to NYPD. Why is it the theoretical VoIP user in such examples always seems to be from Iowa or Nebraska? I feel compelled to state that not all people from these states are farmers with pitchforks and SIP phones. I personally live in Omaha, Nebraska, a city I that the Census Bureau indicates I share with 390,006 others, and that may not even include the suburbs. I respectfully request that future examples use other sparsely populated states such as Montana or perhaps a Canadian province from time-to-time. On a more serious note this thread has been very interesting, and this 911 issue will be very important to our organization in the near future. Luckily the 911 operations center is located in our basement so collaboration is easier for us, but when we roll out VoIP we will need to address the redundancy issues and the location issues for remote offices just like any other business. -- Tony Kava Senior Network Administrator Pottawattamie County, Iowa ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
[Asterisk-Users] 911 and lawsuits
Just curious if any of the Asterisk installers are doing anything special to protect themselves from a possible lawsuit caused by 911 failure during a Asterisk/computer crash? I realize that any traditional PBX or even a phone line can fail but, anything running on a computer is probably going to be less reliable than most PBXs. Anybody requiring customers to acknowledge and sign any kind of waiver? Just the legal fees of defending yourself in a lawsuit could sink most Asterisk installers. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and lawsuits
On Tue, 2004-01-06 at 10:56, Jim Flagg wrote: Just curious if any of the Asterisk installers are doing anything special to protect themselves from a possible lawsuit caused by 911 failure during a Asterisk/computer crash? I realize that any traditional PBX or even a phone line can fail but, anything running on a computer is probably going to be less reliable than most PBXs. What do you think most PBXs are? Maybe not a x86, but it is a computer. Anybody requiring customers to acknowledge and sign any kind of waiver? Just the legal fees of defending yourself in a lawsuit could sink most Asterisk installers. Good question otherwise. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and lawsuits
I've always been advised that personal injury liability waivers are of limited value in either avoiding a lawsuit or limiting damages, in the US. Can't hurt to have such an agreement, but probably would not help under our tort system. Outside the US, might be a different story! Regards Scott Stingel Scott M. Stingel Emerging Voice Technology Inc. Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] URL:www.evtmedia.com http://www.evtmedia.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven Critchfield Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 5:13 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and lawsuits On Tue, 2004-01-06 at 10:56, Jim Flagg wrote: Just curious if any of the Asterisk installers are doing anything special to protect themselves from a possible lawsuit caused by 911 failure during a Asterisk/computer crash? I realize that any traditional PBX or even a phone line can fail but, anything running on a computer is probably going to be less reliable than most PBXs. What do you think most PBXs are? Maybe not a x86, but it is a computer. Anybody requiring customers to acknowledge and sign any kind of waiver? Just the legal fees of defending yourself in a lawsuit could sink most Asterisk installers. Good question otherwise. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and lawsuits and redundancy
This is esp true of any VoIP PBX system. In fact I think many of them run Windows. I do have a related question about how * users are creating redundancy in thier setups? I am going live in a few days with a single office setup where I have patched the * PBX in front of our existing legacy phone system, giving us auto attendent and voice mail, plus the potential to do a large scale test of IP phones. If successful the next step is a 150-400 station multi-office setup. Most calls are inter-building such that we currently only need 6 outbound lines to the PSTN. -- Jonathan Moore Director of Technology Winfield Public Schools Office 620.221.5100 Fax 620.221.0508 Quoting Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED]: On Tue, 2004-01-06 at 10:56, Jim Flagg wrote: Just curious if any of the Asterisk installers are doing anything special to protect themselves from a possible lawsuit caused by 911 failure during a Asterisk/computer crash? I realize that any traditional PBX or even a phone line can fail but, anything running on a computer is probably going to be less reliable than most PBXs. What do you think most PBXs are? Maybe not a x86, but it is a computer. Anybody requiring customers to acknowledge and sign any kind of waiver? Just the legal fees of defending yourself in a lawsuit could sink most Asterisk installers. Good question otherwise. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users Visit Winfield Public Schools at http://usd465.com - This mail sent through IMP: http://horde.org/imp/ ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and lawsuits
ever notice the spec sheets from semiconductor manufacturers specifically exclude the device from being used for medical applications ? do something similar with asterisk - put a sticker on the box saying not 911 rated or something, use at your own risk. I wouldn't be caught dead (well maybe I would be :) ) without a plain old phone set plugged directly into one of my analog lines to use in an emergency. Lots of telco equipment comes with an emergency jack as well where if the device loses power, or self destructs or whatever, this is mechanically shunted over to the primary analog line with a relay that drops out when it loses power. The phone does not have to necessarily be at the pbx either, it could be brought out to the reception desk etc. On Tue, 2004-01-06 at 10:56, Jim Flagg wrote: Just curious if any of the Asterisk installers are doing anything special to protect themselves from a possible lawsuit caused by 911 failure during a Asterisk/computer crash? I realize that any traditional PBX or even a phone line can fail but, anything running on a computer is probably going to be less reliable than most PBXs. What do you think most PBXs are? Maybe not a x86, but it is a computer. Anybody requiring customers to acknowledge and sign any kind of waiver? Just the legal fees of defending yourself in a lawsuit could sink most Asterisk installers. Good question otherwise. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and lawsuits
It's just as well that here in Hong Kong employers don't have to worry about being sued by their staff tripping over their own laces ; or microwave oven manufacturers getting sued by old ladies drying off their poodle ; or supermarket owners getting sued by stupid customers who trip over their own kids. In most countries cases such as these would be thrown out the minute they are filed. Of course, these are slight exaggerations insofar as asterisk is concerned - because being able to dial 911 (or 999 as it is in this part of the world) is a much more 'genuine' problem. But nonetheless, it should be the responsibility of the implementor of such a system to ensure that there are adequate measures taken against system failure - such as UPS, or even a primitive analogue phone line somewhere in the home/office. Though I cannot possibly comment regarding 'fear of being prosecuted', simply because I have no reason to fear (i'm not under jurisdiction of a ridiculous judicial system) - I would say that it is a huge shame that a group of people all with the common goal of contributing towards free software projects such as this should even have to worry about things such as lawsuits. If there are people out there who have problems with asterisk, I suggest they just don't use it. To go as far as suing - that is just taking the piss! (sorry, can't think of equivalent non-British term). Terence Just curious if any of the Asterisk installers are doing anything special to protect themselves from a possible lawsuit caused by 911 failure during a Asterisk/computer crash? I realize that any traditional PBX or even a phone line can fail but, anything running on a computer is probably going to be less reliable than most PBXs. What do you think most PBXs are? Maybe not a x86, but it is a computer. Anybody requiring customers to acknowledge and sign any kind of waiver? Just the legal fees of defending yourself in a lawsuit could sink most Asterisk installers. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and lawsuits
- Original Message - From: Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 12:12 PM Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and lawsuits I realize that any traditional PBX or even a phone line can fail but, anything running on a computer is probably going to be less reliable than most PBXs. What do you think most PBXs are? Maybe not a x86, but it is a computer. Agreed, Guess I should have said traditional computer. Most PBXs would only use a hard drive for voice mail. A hard drive failure would not cause the PBX to stop working. Also, with something like Asterisk that is changing so often, there is always the possibility of a typo that is not discovered until you need to use one of those rarely used features like calling 911. Most business would have lots of cell phones around but in many metal building they do not work. They also don't provide the address information that a land line phone provides. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and lawsuits and redundancy
- Original Message - From: Jonathan Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 12:34 PM Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and lawsuits and redundancy This is esp true of any VoIP PBX system. In fact I think many of them run Windows. Or VOIP in general. This is what Vonage makes you agree to in their Terms of Service. 2.4 Requires Activation: You acknowledge and understand that 911 dialing does not function unless you have successfully activated the 911dialing feature by following the instructions from the Dial 911 link on your dashboard, and until such later date that such activation has been confirmed to you through a confirming email. You acknowledge and understand that you cannot dial 911 from this line unless and until you have received a confirming email. 2.5 Failure to Designate the Correct Physical Address When Activating 911 Dialing: Failure to provide the current and correct physical address and location of your Vonage equipment will result in any 911 communication you may make being routed to the incorrect local emergency service provider. 2.6 Requires Re-Activation if You Change Your Number: You acknowledge and understand that 911 dialing does not function if you change your phone number unless and until you have successfully activated the 911 dialing feature following the instructions from the Dial 911 link on your dashboard, and until such later date that such activation has been confirmed to you through a confirming email. 911 dialing must be re-activated. Although you may have activated 911 dialing with your former Vonage phone number, you must separately activate 911 dialing for any new number. 2.7 Change of Physical Location of Vonage Equipment: You acknowledge and understand that 911dialing does not function properly or may not function at all if you take your equipment with you away from the address or physical location that you have designated. 2.8 Requires Re-Activation if You Move: You acknowledge and understand that 911 dialing does not function properly or at all if you move or change the physical location of your Vonage equipment to a different street address, unless and until you have successfully activated the 911 dialing feature following the instructions from the Dial 911 link on your dashboard, and until such later date that such activation has been confirmed to you through a confirming email. 911dialing must be re-activated although you may have activated 911 dialing using your former address, and you must separately activate 911 dialing for any new physical address. Failure to provide the current and correct physical address and location of your Vonage equipment will result in any 911 dialing you may make being routed to the incorrect local emergency service provider 2.9 Possibility of Network Congestion and/or Reduced Speed for Routing 911: Due to the manner in which it is technically possible to provide the 911 dialing feature for Vonage DigitalVoice at this time, you acknowledge and understand that there is a greater possibility of network congestion and/or reduced speed in the routing of a 911 communication made utilizing your Vonage equipment as compared to traditional 911 dialing over traditional public telephone networks. You acknowledge and understand that 911 dialing from your Vonage equipment will be routed to the general telephone number for the local emergency service provider, and will not be routed to the 911 dispatcher(s) who are specifically designated to receive incoming 911 calls at such local provider's facilities when such calls are routed using traditional 911 dialing. You acknowledge and understand that there may be a greater possibility that the general telephone number for the local emergency service provider will produce a busy signal or will take longer to answer, as compared to those 911 calls routed to the 911 dispatcher(s) who are specifically designated to receive incoming 911 calls using traditional 911 dialing. 2.10 Automated Number Identification: At this time in the technical development of Vonage 911 dialing, it may or may not be possible for the Public Safety Answering Point (PSAP) and the local emergency personnel to identify your phone number when you dial 911. Vonage's system is configured in most instances to send the automated number identification information; however, the phone system routes the traffic to the PSAP and the PSAP itself must be able to receive the information and pass it along properly, and they are not yet always technically capable of doing so. You acknowledge and understand that PSAP and emergency personnel may or may not be able to identify your phone number in order to call you back if the call is unable to be completed, is dropped or disconnected, or if you are unable to speak to tell them your phone number and/or if the Service is not operational for any reason, including without limitation those listed elsewhere
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and lawsuits
I would ask the same question about zero SLA Broadband Internet providers. How could an Asterisk installers determine if the Broadband latency reached a level were the IP network was not available to a VoIP subscriber at time of a 911 call. this is a log clip of a SIP UA connecting across a Cable modem. Jan 5 17:48:57 NOTICE[-1127097424]: File chan_sip.c, Line 4682 (handle_response): Peer '6400' is now TOO LAGGED! Jan 5 17:49:07 NOTICE[-1127097424]: File chan_sip.c, Line 4677 (handle_response): Peer '6400' is now REACHABLE! Jan 5 17:51:09 NOTICE[-1127097424]: File chan_sip.c, Line 4682 (handle_response): Peer '6400' is now TOO LAGGED! Jan 5 17:51:19 NOTICE[-1127097424]: File chan_sip.c, Line 4677 (handle_response): Peer '6400' is now REACHABLE! Jan 5 17:59:20 NOTICE[-1127097424]: File chan_sip.c, Line 4682 (handle_response): Peer '6400' is now TOO LAGGED! Jan 5 17:59:30 NOTICE[-1127097424]: File chan_sip.c, Line 4677 (handle_response): Peer '6400' is now REACHABLE! This subscriber would have a Best Effort 911 service. Doug Jim Flagg wrote: Just curious if any of the Asterisk installers are doing anything special to protect themselves from a possible lawsuit caused by 911 failure during a Asterisk/computer crash? I realize that any traditional PBX or even a phone line can fail but, anything running on a computer is probably going to be less reliable than most PBXs. Anybody requiring customers to acknowledge and sign any kind of waiver? Just the legal fees of defending yourself in a lawsuit could sink most Asterisk installers. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -- FREE Unlimited Worldwide Voip calling set-up an account and start saving today! http://www.voippages.com ext. 7000 http://www.pulver.com/fwd/ ext. 83740 free IP phone software @ http://www.xten.com/ http://iaxclient.sourceforge.net/iaxcomm/ ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and lawsuits
On Tue, 6 Jan 2004, Jon Pounder wrote: The phone does not have to necessarily be at the pbx either, it could be brought out to the reception desk etc. On Definity systems, we used a device called something like Emergency Cut-over. When power from the switch was lost, the device threw a bunch of relays cutting CO lines over to fax machines that were specifically chosen to allow dialing without power (many fax machines won't dial unless there is power) or to fax machines with a Y adapter connected to a $9 Wal-Mart phone. Normally, these fax machines would go through the switch, but if the switch had problems, it would cut over. We put big signs above all the fax machines indicating that they were EMERGENCY PHONES. I've also seen pay-phones installed in some areas to serve this function as well (typically shop environments where personal phone calls using company equipment were frowned upon). -- Joel ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and lawsuits
Jon Pounder wrote: ever notice the spec sheets from semiconductor manufacturers specifically exclude the device from being used for medical applications ? As does Microsoft's standard software license. Don't use this for any life-or-death application. (I believe medical and nuclear plant applications are specifically mentioned, but I haven't seen an MS license lately.) -- JustThe.net Internet New Media Services 22674 Motnocab Road * Apple Valley, CA 92307-1950 Steve Sobol, Geek In Charge * 888.480.4NET (4638) * [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and lawsuits
quote who=Jim Flagg Most business would have lots of cell phones around but in many metal building they do not work. They also don't provide the address information that a land line phone provides. My company gets over the issue of the incorrect address information for the true location of the caller, by requiring that people inside the building dial a special extension (posted on every phone). This rings an emergency phone(s) at the central security office. We currently use a couple of Nortel PBXs. As for the PBX not working at all during the time of emergency, I don't know what we actualy do. (I am not telecom at my company, I manage firewalls.) -- END OF LINE -MCP ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and lawsuits
The question wasn't that someone had problems with asterisk, but was asking a question all consultants eventually have to think about. If you touch someone else's hardware, you are now playing a risk game. The risks are that you haven't clued your customer in fully on what to expect and therefore they think they are getting more than they they are. The risk is that you may not have written a tight proposal that limits what your customer could expect for the cash laid out. You also are risking that someone has an industrial accident as the power failed due to construction or storm and it wipes out the phone lines. All of this comes under the heading of risk management. One way of reducing exposure to risk is to have clients sign waivers that prove they are aware of the risks that they are assuming. This even allows the customer to make a informed descision as to whether the cost difference is worth it to them. After that, there is insurance. I understand Insurance is a very British thing, basically the business of gambling and spreading of risk. On Tue, 2004-01-06 at 11:42, Terence Parker wrote: If there are people out there who have problems with asterisk, I suggest they just don't use it. To go as far as suing - that is just taking the piss! (sorry, can't think of equivalent non-British term). Terence Just curious if any of the Asterisk installers are doing anything special to protect themselves from a possible lawsuit caused by 911 failure during a Asterisk/computer crash? I realize that any traditional PBX or even a phone line can fail but, anything running on a computer is probably going to be less reliable than most PBXs. What do you think most PBXs are? Maybe not a x86, but it is a computer. Anybody requiring customers to acknowledge and sign any kind of waiver? Just the legal fees of defending yourself in a lawsuit could sink most Asterisk installers. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and lawsuits
On Tue, 2004-01-06 at 11:46, Jim Flagg wrote: - Original Message - From: Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 12:12 PM Subject: Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and lawsuits I realize that any traditional PBX or even a phone line can fail but, anything running on a computer is probably going to be less reliable than most PBXs. What do you think most PBXs are? Maybe not a x86, but it is a computer. Agreed, Guess I should have said traditional computer. Most PBXs would only use a hard drive for voice mail. A hard drive failure would not cause the PBX to stop working. Also, with something like Asterisk that is changing so often, there is always the possibility of a typo that is not discovered until you need to use one of those rarely used features like calling 911. Most business would have lots of cell phones around but in many metal building they do not work. They also don't provide the address information that a land line phone provides. In the US they do now. Most Cell phones now either have a GPS unit built in, or will identify via some form of cell tower information. I think the requirement right now is to know where the phone is to within 100 feet or so. As for the metal building, you'd be surprised how well they work. The only troubles I had seen before where related to wireless devices that used similar radio space. When I worked for Ingram Book Company, the warehouse used wireless terminals to deal with inventory tracking and movements. These terminals used 900-930Mhz spread spectrum. This trampled all over the beeper frequencies that were available. Where ever the transmitters where strongest, you absolutely had no chance of being beeped. Move out farther into the warehouse where fewer transmitters where and you could get some through. -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
[Asterisk-Users] 911
FYI there is a way to do 911 its called E-911 enhanced 911 the user has to set it up with the local emergency services to it and you setup your pbx to xmit the data. Here is the fcc rule about it http://www.fcc.gov/911/enhanced/ ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 and lawsuits
In my opionion, right/wrong, courts would rule against any company that provided fair warning to the customer of the possibility that a system (pbx or otherwise) could fail, and some alternative form (with employee training) of emergency services has been recommended. Doing that verbally is not enough. Written legal documents with acknowledgement signatures should be more then adequate. The US court system isn't has bad as what some would tend to suggest. On Tue, 2004-01-06 at 11:42, Terence Parker wrote: If there are people out there who have problems with asterisk, I suggest they just don't use it. To go as far as suing - that is just taking the piss! (sorry, can't think of equivalent non-British term). Terence Just curious if any of the Asterisk installers are doing anything special to protect themselves from a possible lawsuit caused by 911 failure during a Asterisk/computer crash? I realize that any traditional PBX or even a phone line can fail but, anything running on a computer is probably going to be less reliable than most PBXs. What do you think most PBXs are? Maybe not a x86, but it is a computer. Anybody requiring customers to acknowledge and sign any kind of waiver? Just the legal fees of defending yourself in a lawsuit could sink most Asterisk installers. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users -- Steven Critchfield [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ---End of Original Message- ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911
FYI there is a way to do 911 its called E-911 enhanced 911 the user has to set it up with the local emergency services to it and you setup your pbx to xmit the data. There's PS/ALI (Private Switch Automatic Location Information) that's quickly becoming state mandated for all PBX systems. The problem with it is if your customers are spread out across multiple PSAPs or RBOCs. Then you've got to interface with the PSAP or RBOC in every area where you've got a customer. Then you've also got to assign a DID to every customer that can be transmitted back to the PSAP over the PRI or CAMA trunks (which are necessary to use E-911). Its fine if you're limited to one or two PSAPs in your service area, but a company like Vonage or NuFone has an almost unlimited number of PSAPs in their coverage area. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911
- Original Message - From: mike hjorleifsson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2004 2:30 PM Subject: [Asterisk-Users] 911 FYI there is a way to do 911 its called E-911 enhanced 911 the user has to set it up with the local emergency services to it and you setup your pbx to xmit the data. Here is the fcc rule about it http://www.fcc.gov/911/enhanced/ From the first paragraph: The wireless Enhanced 911 (E911) rules... Does this apply to asterisk, and pbx'es? - Andrew Thompson http://aktzero.com/ Your eyes are weary from staring at the CRT. You feel sleepy. Notice how restful it is to watch the cursor blink. Close your eyes. The opinions stated above are yours. You cannot imagine why you ever felt otherwise. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
[Asterisk-Users] 911 settings.
I would like to know if anyone has come up with a script for 911 dialing rules that put correct information on our locations. We have our office in 3 different building one being our production shipping dock. It is almost 2 blocks away. We are connected with Ethernet Wireless between the buildings and have Sip phones setup in the other 2 locations. All the phones are working just fine. But when they call 911 they get our main address and not the other address's. So we need to be able to give the correct address to the 911 call! This is just for our locations and not for reselling our Asterisk server! - \ \\_ Ariel Batista //IS Director / Avionica, Inc. -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph: 786-544-1114 Fx: 305-574-0212 ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 settings.
- Original Message - From: Ariel Batista [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Asterisk User List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 4:06 PM Subject: [Asterisk-Users] 911 settings. I would like to know if anyone has come up with a script for 911 dialing rules that put correct information on our locations. We have our office in 3 different building one being our production shipping dock. It is almost 2 blocks away. We are connected with Ethernet Wireless between the buildings and have Sip phones setup in the other 2 locations. All the phones are working just fine. But when they call 911 they get our main address and not the other address's. So we need to be able to give the correct address to the 911 call! This is just for our locations and not for reselling our Asterisk server! The 911 office is most likely retreiving the address off of the line that is placing the call. Do you have any voice lines in the other buildings? I would consider a line siege device and FXO attached to a fax or security system line in the other buildings. Route the dialed 911's out over the local pots line and they will get the correct address. I don't know if you can attach an address any other way. You could try sending a different callerid, but if they are all billed as being in the main building, that's probably the address they'll get. - Andrew Thompson http://aktzero.com/ Your eyes are weary from staring at the CRT. You feel sleepy. Notice how restful it is to watch the cursor blink. Close your eyes. The opinions stated above are yours. You cannot imagine why you ever felt otherwise. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 settings.
At 5:26 PM -0500 12/19/03, Andrew Thompson wrote: I would like to know if anyone has come up with a script for 911 dialing rules that put correct information on our locations. We have our office in 3 different building one being our production shipping dock. It is almost 2 blocks away. We are connected with Ethernet Wireless between the buildings and have Sip phones setup in the other 2 locations. All the phones are working just fine. But when they call 911 they get our main address and not the other address's. So we need to be able to give the correct address to the 911 call! This is just for our locations and not for reselling our Asterisk server! The 911 office is most likely retreiving the address off of the line that is placing the call. Do you have any voice lines in the other buildings? I would consider a line siege device and FXO attached to a fax or security system line in the other buildings. Route the dialed 911's out over the local pots line and they will get the correct address. I don't know if you can attach an address any other way. You could try sending a different callerid, but if they are all billed as being in the main building, that's probably the address they'll get. Aye, there's the rub. I'll be brief on 911 and VoIP, but it's a topic about which I could complain several days. The problem is threefold: 1) which 911 center do we connect this VoIP user to? 2) what caller ID do we give to the 911 center? 3) how do we get street address to the 911 center for dispatch? Some providers Whose Names Will Go Unmentioned Here have come up with a system that they are selling to large VoIP service providers/IPSCP's. Without violating any NDA's (see references for public information sources) here is the general view for each option: 1) If you have the address of the customer, this E911 provider allows you to send (via XML over HTTP, apparently) the address information of the customer and their phone number to the central database. The central database then feeds back to you the ten-digit phone number that lets you into the normal phone line for the 911 center. It's then your job, as the IPCSP or PBX provider, to send the call the correct path to get to that ten-digit number. 2) Good question, especially with VoIP phones. No true solution exists for this across all providers; it depends on implementation. If you have DID's associated with each station, you're in luck. If you are using twelve digit random extensions, all homing out of one single DID for outbound caller ID, then you'll have to come up with some clever way around that, won't you? My favorite is a temporary mapping of some small pool of DID's to the last SIP URI's that made 911 calls - you have maybe a block of 1000 numbers that you round-robin and attach to 911 calls so that when the PSAP calls back the DID, they get auto-mapped to the SIP URI of the original caller. Maybe two or three days later, that number gets re-mapped somewhere else... I haven't discussed this idea with any PSAP operators, but I'd be interested in opinions from the list as to it's usefulness. 3) You send your customer list and address information via some type of update to a central repository. That repository is hooked into the brains of some of the 911 systems across the country (but potentially not all of them.) The database is called ALI, or Automatic Location Information. Updating ALI unless you are a large phone company (or ALI service provider) is very difficult, and is normally a very expensive proposition. Small or medium PBX systems like Asterisk will be left far, far behind in this because the users are typically low-budget and don't have the time to waste building relationships with fussy sales- or paperwork-heavy organizations which can provide those services. In any case, not always is it the case that the ALI provider can push the street address information all the way out to the PSAP, and also there is often a logical disconnect between the ALI data and the phone call itself if you're in a VoIP environment. Keeping the addresses updated in the ALI is 100% the problem of the ITCSP - there are at least four methods of this that have been discussed previously to solve this at a policy and technology level, all with various faults and favors, a combination of which I'm sure could see acceptable accuracy given the technology gap. Yes, it's much more complex than this, but I said I would be brief... Solution: What is needed is a VOIP-CLUEFUL provider of E911 PSAP mapping data, ALI transfer, and maybe even SIP call forwarding and processing to PSAPs. They should be low-priced on a monthly basis ($1 a line?), have IP connectivity to customers across the public Internet, be open-source for their client-side implementations, and provide (possibly) reverse call mapping for customers via DIDs. I would even support the construction of a non-profit company
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 settings.
Andrew Thompson wrote: - Original Message - From: Ariel Batista [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Asterisk User List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, December 19, 2003 4:06 PM Subject: [Asterisk-Users] 911 settings. I would like to know if anyone has come up with a script for 911 dialing rules that put correct information on our locations. We have our office in 3 different building one being our production shipping dock. It is almost 2 blocks away. We are connected with Ethernet Wireless between the buildings and have Sip phones setup in the other 2 locations. All the phones are working just fine. But when they call 911 they get our main address and not the other address's. So we need to be able to give the correct address to the 911 call! This is just for our locations and not for reselling our Asterisk server! The 911 office is most likely retreiving the address off of the line that is placing the call. Do you have any voice lines in the other buildings? I would consider a line siege device and FXO attached to a fax or security system line in the other buildings. Route the dialed 911's out over the local pots line and they will get the correct address. I don't know if you can attach an address any other way. You could try sending a different callerid, but if they are all billed as being in the main building, that's probably the address they'll get. Another solution that might work is to ask the phone company to change the address that they give the PSAP on one of your phone numbers to the other building, and then use that for 911. I don't know how big of a customer you are for your phone company, but if you have more than a token number of lines they'll hopefully go for it. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911 settings.
On Fri, 19 Dec 2003, Nick Bachmann wrote: I don't know how big of a customer you are for your phone company, but if you have more than a token number of lines they'll hopefully go for it. Another option is to call the non-emergency number of the dispatch center and explain this one number/address could actually mean someone is calling from either this location or the one down the street... Make sure you get this information from the caller.. Typically they can add some comments to their database at the dispatch center (they typically use this feature for making note of things like site stores 3 million gallons of highly explosive substance, which the phone company doesn't keep in their databases). It's not as good as knowing exactly where the call is coming from, but it is a start. It might be good for people that have non-local phone numbers, too, and 911 is translated to the non-emergency phone number. If you call them up and talk to them, they are typically glad to help. They often are willing to help you test the actual 911 part of your dial-plan, too (are you *SURE* you haven't screwed that up? The only way to find out is to test this - WITH THE DISPATCH CENTER'S COOPERATION). (this isn't a bad thing to do even if you are using a land line with supposedly the right address - all computer databases are not 100% accurate...) -- Joel ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
[Asterisk-Users] 911, networks of * servers, etc. (was: VOIP Dialtone?)
OK, that VOIP dialtone? thread was getting really out of hand, so I'll condense my answers into one big ugly message: 1) 911 service. Yes, that is one of three reasons to keep your PSTN line. The other two reasons are: Inbound calls from local callers still should work on a POTS line, for now. You can't find VOIP providers in most area codes, so you'll most likely need to have a local number that finds it's way to you for local tasks. Secondly, the Internet is not as reliable as the phone system. Sorry, folks, it just works that way right now despite what your network engineer might tell you. That's not to say it's unreliable, but those last two nines are very expensive... Besides, any good network engineer will tell you that you should have multiple paths for your IP connectivity. With few exceptions, most homes do not have multipath connectivity. (note: businesses may in fact have better uptime on their IP network than their phone network, if they have competent engineers and a reasonable budget.) 1.5) There are reasonable technical solutions to this problem, but for the life of me I can't figure out why the 911 centers haven't gotten their act together and solved this. There are two halves to this problem: What PSAP do I call? (and what phone number) and How do I get my location data to the PSAP once I call them? C'mon, this is not difficult. The first question can be answered trivially: there _must_ be a database of address-to-PSAP mappings. Any PBX administrator (or SIP phone owner, for that matter) should be able to figure out their address. Methods for associating the PSAP number with the phone are numerous, and trivially implemented - if people don't keep their address information updated, they're SOL (though you can remind them in an automated fashion to keep it updated - just forbid them from using the service unless they verify the address every month or so.) The second question is more difficult, but certainly possible. There may be kludge ways of doing it, and there should be more elegant ways of doing it. A SIP header with lat/lon/alt data that gets sent from the UA only on 911 (or other programmable string) calls might be reasonably elegant... maybe. But that only gets the data to the SIP proxy. That doesn't solve the issue of how you get that data from the SIP proxy to the PSAP, which at some point will be almost certainly through a PSTN connection... ADSI FSK, maybe? Ugly, and PSAPs would not want to invest in equipment. A national caller-id to location clearinghouse in which your proxy could participate (any 911 calls would create a temporary mapping)? Maybe, but probably not. Non-standard, and I doubt PSAP operators would want another tool, even if it is web-based and so easy a monkey could use it. I don't know. I guess I'll grill the PSAP people at the panel next month at VON. :-) 2) Networks of Asterisk servers, offering dialtone to each other in different places. YES, this is a good idea, but setting dialplans up for least-cost-routing via static routes is a pretty rotten and unscaleable task. See my conversations on why someone should implement TRIP in Asterisk (hey, I'm still looking for a programmer... anyone want some money?) http://lists.digium.com/pipermail/asterisk-dev/2003-July/001172.html I already participate in one such network, and I get free calls into four large area codes into which I terminate much of my traffic, and they get... well... not much, since I live in an area code that gets very little traffic. :-) They get my undying gratitude. 3) Local service vs. long distance: I route local (read: free) calls over my PSTN connection. I make very infrequent local calls, but it seems to work well for me. I could, probably without noticing, send all my calls through my LD provider, even those which are local, and not notice a change in my bills. The cost for a business when you examine the measured service that most businesses use vs. the cost of LD, is a silly comparison - it's very often cheaper to dial via a VOIP provider than it is to dial a local measured RBOC call. Go, Go, Gadget Deregulation!! Uh... wait... deregulation? This may be illegal if you're a CLEC/LEC, but if you're not a phone company, go right ahead. 4) To whoever asked, http://www.voicepulse.com/ should work with Asterisk, as they are SIP based. I don't know if they give you username/password though - I didn't look that far into it. JT ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911/Emergency calls + Caller ID
You risk hanging up on your other 911 callers... but everything is always a tradeoff. In my experience, the 911 dispatcher can (does) pin the call, so that even though the remote side hangs up, the line is not available for use again until the dispatcher releases it. I'd expect this to mean that the proposed hangup would end up with the 911 operator transferred from caller-caller-caller if asterisk were configured to re-use a line for a new outbound 911 call... chris. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911/Emergency calls + Caller ID
That would be the case if calls are dropped at random to clear the way for 911 calls. With some form of access control (NCOS, Calling Search Space/Partitions, priority levels) you would be able to drop the least important calls. BTW, how are trunk restrictions managed right now? How can I specify which phones/extensions can make local, long distance or international calls? Can this be controlled by a time-of-day schedule, to change restrictions after regular business hours (cleaning crew calling LD)? Dylan. Chris Witte wrote: You risk hanging up on your other 911 callers... but everything is always a tradeoff. In my experience, the 911 dispatcher can (does) pin the call, so that even though the remote side hangs up, the line is not available for use again until the dispatcher releases it. I'd expect this to mean that the proposed hangup would end up with the 911 operator transferred from caller-caller-caller if asterisk were configured to re-use a line for a new outbound 911 call... chris. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911/Emergency calls + Caller ID
make a context for l/d dialing and include it for the phones / times of day, when it is actually supposed to be used, not otherwise. At 09:52 AM 6/24/2003 -0600, you wrote: That would be the case if calls are dropped at random to clear the way for 911 calls. With some form of access control (NCOS, Calling Search Space/Partitions, priority levels) you would be able to drop the least important calls. BTW, how are trunk restrictions managed right now? How can I specify which phones/extensions can make local, long distance or international calls? Can this be controlled by a time-of-day schedule, to change restrictions after regular business hours (cleaning crew calling LD)? Dylan. Chris Witte wrote: You risk hanging up on your other 911 callers... but everything is always a tradeoff. In my experience, the 911 dispatcher can (does) pin the call, so that even though the remote side hangs up, the line is not available for use again until the dispatcher releases it. I'd expect this to mean that the proposed hangup would end up with the 911 operator transferred from caller-caller-caller if asterisk were configured to re-use a line for a new outbound 911 call... chris. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
[Asterisk-Users] 911/Emergency calls + Caller ID
Problem: 911 calls placed through Asterisk are associated with the physical location of where the CO trunks terminate. This is not really a problem when all extensions are located in the same building, but when Asterisk is used in a campus-like or otherwise networked environment, it can get messy. A common solution is to install a few analog lines at each location, for emergency calls only. But by making clever use of Caller ID (and adding a 'location' field to extensions.conf), it should be possible to properly identify the location of the caller: exten = 1001,1,John Doe,1223 Bell Ave. Room 51 For this to work, you would have to be able to apply rules to the 911 context in a dial plan, to replace the *name* portion with the *location* portion. A similar rule could be defined to drop other calls if 911 is dialed and all lines are busy (e.g. drop the lobby phone but not the front desk, or drop local vs. long distance, caller ID calls vs. non-identified calls, etc.). Getting lengthy, better stop. Dylan. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911/Emergency calls + Caller ID
I'm not sure I can parse your examples correctly. I'm not being snide, but do you use Asterisk on a regular basis? Do you understand how applications work, and how call handoff is done between Asterisk servers? Your example doesn't seem to make sense, no matter how I think about it. Of course, the problem with 911 is the problem of location of the originating handset. That much has been clear for years. Getting that information to the 911 call center is the problem; it's pretty much worthless info even if you have it inside the PBX - you could just as easily have an external database that maps extensions to locations - why bother with the PBX if there is no in-band signalling to the PSAP? This makes me think a bit about some other 911 ideas I had a while back, using lat/lon/altitude. Can ADSI tones be transmitted through any phone call on the PSTN? It might be interesting for PBX systems to pass across the lat/lon/altitude of callers via ADSI in-band. This will never work, of course, since nobody would trust the transmitters. The 911 question almost instantly spins into a political issue, and not a technical issue, since there are a number of clever ways to solve the problem but not a number of clever ways to bang solutions into people's heads. Bumping calls to clear a path for 911 is possible within Asterisk already - see the SoftHangup application. JT Problem: 911 calls placed through Asterisk are associated with the physical location of where the CO trunks terminate. This is not really a problem when all extensions are located in the same building, but when Asterisk is used in a campus-like or otherwise networked environment, it can get messy. A common solution is to install a few analog lines at each location, for emergency calls only. But by making clever use of Caller ID (and adding a 'location' field to extensions.conf), it should be possible to properly identify the location of the caller: exten = 1001,1,John Doe,1223 Bell Ave. Room 51 For this to work, you would have to be able to apply rules to the 911 context in a dial plan, to replace the *name* portion with the *location* portion. A similar rule could be defined to drop other calls if 911 is dialed and all lines are busy (e.g. drop the lobby phone but not the front desk, or drop local vs. long distance, caller ID calls vs. non-identified calls, etc.). Getting lengthy, better stop. Dylan. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911/Emergency calls + Caller ID
Now that I reed it back, I can barely make sense of it myself! Anyway, I was just thinking out loud, the example wasn't meant to be parsed. Asterisk would need some lower level changes to parse the extra field holding the location information, and to apply the routing rules to substitute the Caller ID name for the location. I was hoping this would be thought provoking for somebody smarter than me :) Bumping calls to clear a path for 911 is possible within Asterisk already - see the SoftHangup application. That sounds good, but what can trigger the SoftHangup app to drop other calls automatically when 911 is dialed? Thanks, Dylan. John Todd wrote: I'm not sure I can parse your examples correctly. I'm not being snide, but do you use Asterisk on a regular basis? Do you understand how applications work, and how call handoff is done between Asterisk servers? Your example doesn't seem to make sense, no matter how I think about it. Of course, the problem with 911 is the problem of location of the originating handset. That much has been clear for years. Getting that information to the 911 call center is the problem; it's pretty much worthless info even if you have it inside the PBX - you could just as easily have an external database that maps extensions to locations - why bother with the PBX if there is no in-band signalling to the PSAP? This makes me think a bit about some other 911 ideas I had a while back, using lat/lon/altitude. Can ADSI tones be transmitted through any phone call on the PSTN? It might be interesting for PBX systems to pass across the lat/lon/altitude of callers via ADSI in-band. This will never work, of course, since nobody would trust the transmitters. The 911 question almost instantly spins into a political issue, and not a technical issue, since there are a number of clever ways to solve the problem but not a number of clever ways to bang solutions into people's heads. Bumping calls to clear a path for 911 is possible within Asterisk already - see the SoftHangup application. JT Problem: 911 calls placed through Asterisk are associated with the physical location of where the CO trunks terminate. This is not really a problem when all extensions are located in the same building, but when Asterisk is used in a campus-like or otherwise networked environment, it can get messy. A common solution is to install a few analog lines at each location, for emergency calls only. But by making clever use of Caller ID (and adding a 'location' field to extensions.conf), it should be possible to properly identify the location of the caller: exten = 1001,1,John Doe,1223 Bell Ave. Room 51 For this to work, you would have to be able to apply rules to the 911 context in a dial plan, to replace the *name* portion with the *location* portion. A similar rule could be defined to drop other calls if 911 is dialed and all lines are busy (e.g. drop the lobby phone but not the front desk, or drop local vs. long distance, caller ID calls vs. non-identified calls, etc.). Getting lengthy, better stop. Dylan. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911/Emergency calls + Caller ID
Dylan VanHerpen wrote: Now that I reed it back, I can barely make sense of it myself! Anyway, I was just thinking out loud, the example wasn't meant to be parsed. Asterisk would need some lower level changes to parse the extra field holding the location information, and to apply the routing rules to substitute the Caller ID name for the location. I was hoping this would be thought provoking for somebody smarter than me :) Bumping calls to clear a path for 911 is possible within Asterisk already - see the SoftHangup application. That sounds good, but what can trigger the SoftHangup app to drop other calls automatically when 911 is dialed? Thanks, Dylan. John Todd wrote: I'm not sure I can parse your examples correctly. I'm not being snide, but do you use Asterisk on a regular basis? Do you understand how applications work, and how call handoff is done between Asterisk servers? Your example doesn't seem to make sense, no matter how I think about it. Of course, the problem with 911 is the problem of location of the originating handset. That much has been clear for years. Getting that information to the 911 call center is the problem; it's pretty much worthless info even if you have it inside the PBX - you could just as easily have an external database that maps extensions to locations - why bother with the PBX if there is no in-band signalling to the PSAP? This makes me think a bit about some other 911 ideas I had a while back, using lat/lon/altitude. Can ADSI tones be transmitted through any phone call on the PSTN? It might be interesting for PBX systems to pass across the lat/lon/altitude of callers via ADSI in-band. This will never work, of course, since nobody would trust the transmitters. The 911 question almost instantly spins into a political issue, and not a technical issue, since there are a number of clever ways to solve the problem but not a number of clever ways to bang solutions into people's heads. Bumping calls to clear a path for 911 is possible within Asterisk already - see the SoftHangup application. JT Problem: 911 calls placed through Asterisk are associated with the physical location of where the CO trunks terminate. This is not really a problem when all extensions are located in the same building, but when Asterisk is used in a campus-like or otherwise networked environment, it can get messy. A common solution is to install a few analog lines at each location, for emergency calls only. But by making clever use of Caller ID (and adding a 'location' field to extensions.conf), it should be possible to properly identify the location of the caller: exten = 1001,1,John Doe,1223 Bell Ave. Room 51 For this to work, you would have to be able to apply rules to the 911 context in a dial plan, to replace the *name* portion with the *location* portion. A similar rule could be defined to drop other calls if 911 is dialed and all lines are busy (e.g. drop the lobby phone but not the front desk, or drop local vs. long distance, caller ID calls vs. non-identified calls, etc.). Getting lengthy, better stop. Dylan. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911/Emergency calls + Caller ID
And now that I *read* it back again, you can tell that English is not my native language either Dylan VanHerpen wrote: Now that I reed it back, I can barely make sense of it myself! Anyway, I was just thinking out loud, the example wasn't meant to be parsed. Asterisk would need some lower level changes to parse the extra field holding the location information, and to apply the routing rules to substitute the Caller ID name for the location. I was hoping this would be thought provoking for somebody smarter than me :) Bumping calls to clear a path for 911 is possible within Asterisk already - see the SoftHangup application. That sounds good, but what can trigger the SoftHangup app to drop other calls automatically when 911 is dialed? Thanks, Dylan. John Todd wrote: I'm not sure I can parse your examples correctly. I'm not being snide, but do you use Asterisk on a regular basis? Do you understand how applications work, and how call handoff is done between Asterisk servers? Your example doesn't seem to make sense, no matter how I think about it. Of course, the problem with 911 is the problem of location of the originating handset. That much has been clear for years. Getting that information to the 911 call center is the problem; it's pretty much worthless info even if you have it inside the PBX - you could just as easily have an external database that maps extensions to locations - why bother with the PBX if there is no in-band signalling to the PSAP? This makes me think a bit about some other 911 ideas I had a while back, using lat/lon/altitude. Can ADSI tones be transmitted through any phone call on the PSTN? It might be interesting for PBX systems to pass across the lat/lon/altitude of callers via ADSI in-band. This will never work, of course, since nobody would trust the transmitters. The 911 question almost instantly spins into a political issue, and not a technical issue, since there are a number of clever ways to solve the problem but not a number of clever ways to bang solutions into people's heads. Bumping calls to clear a path for 911 is possible within Asterisk already - see the SoftHangup application. JT Problem: 911 calls placed through Asterisk are associated with the physical location of where the CO trunks terminate. This is not really a problem when all extensions are located in the same building, but when Asterisk is used in a campus-like or otherwise networked environment, it can get messy. A common solution is to install a few analog lines at each location, for emergency calls only. But by making clever use of Caller ID (and adding a 'location' field to extensions.conf), it should be possible to properly identify the location of the caller: exten = 1001,1,John Doe,1223 Bell Ave. Room 51 For this to work, you would have to be able to apply rules to the 911 context in a dial plan, to replace the *name* portion with the *location* portion. A similar rule could be defined to drop other calls if 911 is dialed and all lines are busy (e.g. drop the lobby phone but not the front desk, or drop local vs. long distance, caller ID calls vs. non-identified calls, etc.). Getting lengthy, better stop. Dylan. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] 911/Emergency calls + Caller ID
Problem: 911 calls placed through Asterisk are associated with the physical location of where the CO trunks terminate. This is not really a problem when all extensions are located in the same building, but when Asterisk is used in a campus-like or otherwise networked environment, it can get messy. A common solution is to install a few analog lines at each location, for emergency calls only. But by making clever use of Caller ID (and adding a 'location' field to extensions.conf), it should be possible to properly identify the location of the caller: exten = 1001,1,John Doe,1223 Bell Ave. Room 51 For this to work, you would have to be able to apply rules to the 911 context in a dial plan, to replace the *name* portion with the *location* portion. A similar rule could be defined to drop other calls if 911 is dialed and all lines are busy (e.g. drop the lobby phone but not the front desk, or drop local vs. long distance, caller ID calls vs. non-identified calls, etc.). Getting lengthy, better stop. Dylan. This is all quite interesting to me, as I have been somewhat concerned about it, though have never quite bumped into it directly yet. It would be 'nice' to be able to forcibly hangup on some rule based channel if a certain dial 'priority' is set. Perhaps you could do something like this: exten = 911,1,SetVar(priority,911) exten = 911,2,Dial,Zap/g2:911 (Ignore the likely invalid syntax/parameters, but you should get the right idea) Then in another config file: [911] On,Busy,Drop,Zap/1 On,Busy,Drop,Zap/g2 On,Busy,Drop,any So, we might initially try hanging up on Zap/1, but for some reason, we can't release the channel, so we now try each line in Zap/g2 successively, if we still can't get a channel to become available, then try any other line, (heck, drop all of them and pickup the first available). You could also use this so that just before your boss's dialout, it sets the priority to 666, the first thing it does is try to disconnect the line your extension is using (because you only ever talk to your friend and spend all day chatting instead of working, but don't want your boss to realise you were on the phone again...) Yes, it is possible to use SoftHangup to do this, it can be done as an AGI, but I think the importance of this is such that the level of peer review and correctness is rather high! Imagine you get it wrong and all it does is hang up on the caller when they dial 911. Also, it isn't very easy to 'test' either, as the staff at the 911 call centre won't appreciate your testing, and at least in Australia, it is some sort of criminal?/illegal offence to call emergency for non-emergency situations. PS, also keep in mind that different countries use different codes for emergency. Personally, when setting up these codes, I have tried to accomodate for all the ones I know of: 911 - North America 000 - Australia 112 - Emergency from Mobile Phones in Australia I'm not sure what the number is in other countries, but perhaps we should allow this to be somewhat flexible enough that it can be used anywhere. Just some additional lengthy comments to add to the list :) Regards, Adam ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] 911/Emergency calls + Caller ID
Also, it isn't very easy to 'test' either, as the staff at the 911 call centre won't appreciate your testing, and at least in Australia, it is some sort of criminal?/illegal offence to call emergency for non-emergency situations. I had much the same thoughts. Currently my 911 code is just commented out for that very reason - I don't want to get in trouble for accidentally making 911 calls to test it. Should I rely on that code untested for when it is really needed most ? What are other people doing ? I have a set of extensions I call line seize that are supposed to act like the line buttons on a conventional business phone to pickup a specific line and get a dial tone (I was going to add them to adsi to make the illusion even more complete), maybe I will modify those to include a softhangup when the line is busy if the user hits * or something. In a real emergency though you would want this as simple as possible, but foolproof if you code it wrong. PS, also keep in mind that different countries use different codes for emergency. Personally, when setting up these codes, I have tried to accomodate for all the ones I know of: 911 - North America 000 - Australia 112 - Emergency from Mobile Phones in Australia I'm not sure what the number is in other countries, but perhaps we should allow this to be somewhat flexible enough that it can be used anywhere. Just some additional lengthy comments to add to the list :) Regards, Adam ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911/Emergency calls + Caller ID
Jon Pounder wrote: I had much the same thoughts. Currently my 911 code is just commented out for that very reason - I don't want to get in trouble for accidentally making 911 calls to test it. Should I rely on that code untested for when it is really needed most ? What are other people doing ? Cisco have implemented a solution for this, does anyone know how they do it in Call Manager? -- Regards, David Hooton Senior Partner Platform Hosting www.platformhosting.com ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911/Emergency calls + Caller ID
Also, it isn't very easy to 'test' either, as the staff at the 911 call centre won't appreciate your testing, and at least in Australia, it is some sort of criminal?/illegal offence to call emergency for non-emergency situations. Well, for testing purposes 911 could be replaced with any other number. You can also setup an alias for '11', so that regardless if people dial 911 (instead of 9,911), they'll get thru. Dylan. Adam Goryachev wrote: Problem: 911 calls placed through Asterisk are associated with the physical location of where the CO trunks terminate. This is not really a problem when all extensions are located in the same building, but when Asterisk is used in a campus-like or otherwise networked environment, it can get messy. A common solution is to install a few analog lines at each location, for emergency calls only. But by making clever use of Caller ID (and adding a 'location' field to extensions.conf), it should be possible to properly identify the location of the caller: exten = 1001,1,John Doe,1223 Bell Ave. Room 51 For this to work, you would have to be able to apply rules to the 911 context in a dial plan, to replace the *name* portion with the *location* portion. A similar rule could be defined to drop other calls if 911 is dialed and all lines are busy (e.g. drop the lobby phone but not the front desk, or drop local vs. long distance, caller ID calls vs. non-identified calls, etc.). Getting lengthy, better stop. Dylan. This is all quite interesting to me, as I have been somewhat concerned about it, though have never quite bumped into it directly yet. It would be 'nice' to be able to forcibly hangup on some rule based channel if a certain dial 'priority' is set. Perhaps you could do something like this: exten = 911,1,SetVar(priority,911) exten = 911,2,Dial,Zap/g2:911 (Ignore the likely invalid syntax/parameters, but you should get the right idea) Then in another config file: [911] On,Busy,Drop,Zap/1 On,Busy,Drop,Zap/g2 On,Busy,Drop,any So, we might initially try hanging up on Zap/1, but for some reason, we can't release the channel, so we now try each line in Zap/g2 successively, if we still can't get a channel to become available, then try any other line, (heck, drop all of them and pickup the first available). You could also use this so that just before your boss's dialout, it sets the priority to 666, the first thing it does is try to disconnect the line your extension is using (because you only ever talk to your friend and spend all day chatting instead of working, but don't want your boss to realise you were on the phone again...) Yes, it is possible to use SoftHangup to do this, it can be done as an AGI, but I think the importance of this is such that the level of peer review and correctness is rather high! Imagine you get it wrong and all it does is hang up on the caller when they dial 911. Also, it isn't very easy to 'test' either, as the staff at the 911 call centre won't appreciate your testing, and at least in Australia, it is some sort of criminal?/illegal offence to call emergency for non-emergency situations. PS, also keep in mind that different countries use different codes for emergency. Personally, when setting up these codes, I have tried to accomodate for all the ones I know of: 911 - North America 000 - Australia 112 - Emergency from Mobile Phones in Australia I'm not sure what the number is in other countries, but perhaps we should allow this to be somewhat flexible enough that it can be used anywhere. Just some additional lengthy comments to add to the list :) Regards, Adam ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
RE: [Asterisk-Users] 911/Emergency calls + Caller ID
Also, it isn't very easy to 'test' either, as the staff at the 911 call centre won't appreciate your testing, and at least in Australia, it is some sort of criminal?/illegal offence to call emergency for non-emergency situations. I had much the same thoughts. Currently my 911 code is just commented out for that very reason - I don't want to get in trouble for accidentally making 911 calls to test it. Should I rely on that code untested for when it is really needed most ? What are other people doing ? In my experience, most 911 operators will say thank you, hang up, and go about their business if you tell them as soon as they answer the phone that This is a telephone system test call to ensure 911 operation. Most of all, don't hang up on them when they answer or you'll have a patrol car sitting at your place soon after. As long as you don't call them every 10 minutes, it shouldn't be a problem. ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
Re: [Asterisk-Users] 911/Emergency calls + Caller ID
Bumping calls to clear a path for 911 is possible within Asterisk already - see the SoftHangup application. That sounds good, but what can trigger the SoftHangup app to drop other calls automatically when 911 is dialed? A short AGI script, perhaps? It probably would not even require a short AGI. Define a group of Zap lines as your emergency lines. Increment a counter every time a line in that group is used for an outbound/inbound call, and decrement when the line is released (hung up.) If a 911 call is placed, and counter=(max lines in group) then run the SoftHangup and hangup the last three or four lines in the group before placing the 911 call. It is hopefully the case that your system sees 911 calls infrequently enough that a few dropped calls will not be overly burdensome. A sub-counter needs to be kept in order to prevent an existing 911 call from being SoftHangup'ed. It is the case that 911 calls come in clusters from office environments, where two or three people may call about the same issue at the same time, and it would be bad form to hang up 911 caller #1 in order to clear the line for 911 caller #2. You simply have to judge how many lines are appropriate For simplicity's sake, you may just decide that you should hang up Zap/1-21, Zap/1-22, Zap/1-23 anytime you see a 911 call being placed. You risk hanging up on your other 911 callers... but everything is always a tradeoff. JT ___ Asterisk-Users mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://lists.digium.com/mailman/listinfo/asterisk-users
