Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Hi Tom. You are likely correct on history being the reason that a person chooses a certain belief or pattern, although with some rabbid atheists Ive met, (and of course being at a university Ive met more than a few), it is often simply that they have never seen the bennificial side of religion or have encountered religious people whos ideas of faith and God are not so simplistic. A great example of this line of thinking was Arthur C clarkes novel the mountains of paradise, which involve communication with an alien probe who gives humanity plans for advanced technology. In a very offhand section of the novel (which is actually much more concerned with that technology and the building of a space elivator), Clarke describes a bishop transmitting the entirety of Thomas Aquinas meditations to the probe to recieve the answer Bad data or something like that. What however struck me about this episode, is that Clarke imagines uot;aquinas as the pinacle of religious discourse. Aquinas was both a great theologian and schollar of his day, and indeed furthered the course of what we would now think of as mathematics and science, but the idea that all religious philosophy has remained static sinse the thirteenth century is ridiculous! sinse while undoubtedly there are people who still maintain beliefs that havent changed (like all those religious fundamentalists who are convinced on the 6000 year age of the earth which I believe was actually a scientific guess from the roman schollar Ptolomee). It often strikes me tthat a lot of rabbid atheists (as well as needing a good dose of philosophy of science), see religion as soemthing of a straw man and actively disregard the active faith and religious experiences of mystics, preferring to characterize all religious belief as that sort of easily answered fundamentalism. As regards suffering contradicting belief in God, while I do understand the position, at the same time it depends entirely on what you believe God to be capable of. I was never taught that God would literally intervine in the world, or that if I prayed for something it would automatically happen. Indeed when I! lost all of the vision of my right eye when i was seven in a massive expulsive hemmerage during an operation, which not only lost me most of my vision but also caused extreme and severe pain, I was never told to pray to God to make it better. Indeed the local vicar (himself having lost a leg in the war), came and gave me communian and talked to me about things. I was told bad things happen, but God would be there if I needed. As it turned out,that prooved literally true according to experiences, and something I remembered over the next few years, both when very alone at my specialist school and afterwards through some very bad circumstances.Probably the best quote Ive ever heard on this subject was at one meeting at Beth Shalom, a Br itish Memorial for victims of the Shoa (holocaust). Two survivers of the concentration camps were debating this. one chap felt (much as you do), that there could possibly be no God with what had happened to them in the concentration camps. he challenged the lady, who still maintained a belief in God and was a Practicing Jew where was God in the camps? to which she replied I knew where God was, I had no problem with where God was. The real question is where was man! Of course my current problem is that I am not so sure anymore of that relationship to God , however I would never say it doesnt exist for some people or that I didnt have it at one time, my own issue at the moment is that I am no longer convinced God actively cares about anyone who isnt in touch with God, and if you lose that communication well Tough Lukc.Regarding science and conspiracy theories and such, well while its absolutely true Ive seen a lo t of dud advertising and the like, at the sme time even major scientists can be guilty of bad science, indeed when I was studdying philosophy of a science a friend of mine (himself with extremely good qualifications in physics maths and chemistry), used to read the new scientist and point out articals that fell fowl of say experimental regress or making unfalsifyable claimes. To give one example, last year I watched a program on colour and psychology. One psychologist on the program (not a presenter, a qualified doctor of psychology), postulated that different colours would change peoples perceptions of time, that red, being associated with blood and fire and such would make people perceive time to pass more quickly, while blue, being associated with calm and cold would have the opposite effect. They took three groups of participants, and asked each to go individually into a coloured room and time how long they thought a minute was. One group went into a red room , the other a blue one, the control group into a plane black room.The prediction was that the group in the blue room would estimate a minute as longer because they perceived time more
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Yup, indeed. Another spammer, this absolutely did not make sense in any way. Talking about the old testament:Im not sure whether Jesus already has been born when god wanted to get rid of those who didnt follow him.I dont think so. Please, to all the others, correct me when I am wrong.But actually, this wastaking place before Jesus and his followers.The bible does not actually start with Jesus, it starts with Adam and Eva, who were, regarding the bible, living in paradise till Eva told Adam to eat one of the forbidden apples. Jesus does not play a role here at all.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=174441#p174441 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Hi Tom. I can completely understand why you hold the view of faith that you do and that you have a problem with fundamentalists. When I said such views arent worth my time what I meant is more Humes saying on the same subject I can reason no longer with him which is simply that when a person is in such a position that they can no longer recieve any new ideas debate is pretty pointless. I can sympathize with your situation involving your son, and I can completely see why religious fundamentalism is something your concerned with. What however I object to is a class of people (many of whome Ive encountered at university), who believe rather as Richard dorkins does, who in fact subscribe to what has been dubbed Scientism or the worship of science, the idea that pretty much anything a scientist arrives at is automatically believable simply because a scientist has said it. This also goes with the idea of treating evoluti on as an almost purposive force. For example one paper I read in connection with my doctral research postulated that disabilities still existed within the population because disabled people basically have tapped into an evolutionary propensity to acquire sympathy for others, thus making disability a survival traite. The paper didnt go quite as far as claiming (as the nazis did), that disabled people were therefore inferior and shouldnt be allowed to procreate but it was certainly going in that direction. That is the sort of view I tend to object to, sort of the fundamental atheist end of rationalism, indeed a rationalism which, in its refusal to accept factors such as the problem of induction, Karl Poppers issues of falsfication and the problem of experimental regress and considder any fallibility in the scientific method has almost become the equal of the very religious fundamentalism which it is opposed to. One really good text book I had for my introductory module on Philosophy of Science was called what is this thing called science by A J Chambers. I actually sat down and read the thing all the way through when I finished that module sinse it put forward all the salient arguements in an extremely logical and easy to understand way (indeed it was not such a heavy book at all). The British audio tape library also actually had a copy of it in audio, though I dont know if its sinse been digitized or is available in the states. Regarding faith, as I said for me at least if I considdered Faith to simply be the ability to explain event with reference to a part translated set of 2000 year old myths, and attempt to fit those myths into an understanding of the world, then I would see no more value in it than any other set of purely irrational beliefs like those conspiracy nuts who believe everyone is out to get them iin a giant governmental cover up. While I exc lusively maintain a scepticism about the scientific method and would not accept scientism, at the same time I do believe its the best chance weve got at arriving at a consistant understanding of the world, albeit one which only covers how things are what they are, not how any individual should stand in relationship to them. I wouldnt just apply this to religious fundamentalism either. Im equally scheptical of say evolutionary stories about human behaviour, black box theories of the unconscious mind (such as freudian psychology), or ideas of the supernatural influencing people. This is also why I mention my own religious experiences but do not attempt to convince you of their reality, indeed Ive had friends who have had religious experiences that I simply am not in a position to explain and would not wish to try.This is why I tend to regard faith as a much more active, practical, very differen t thing to explanations about the dinosaurs etc. Not a set of beliefs, but an active relationship a person has with some sort of divinity, something much more worthy of respect sinse it tends to require both dedication and self diciplin of the emotions, as well as a regard for others, indeed I think its often quite an irony that love thy neighbor is almost the first thing which religious fundamentalists tend to violate.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=174455#p174455 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Kamochek, on the contrary if you study the New Testament more closely Jesus did tell the Jews and everyone else that they must believe he is the messiah else they will parish, be destroyed, etc. Right off the top of my head I can think of a few verses where he explicitly says that, but the one that comes immediately to mind is John 3:16 which Christians often use when talking about the importance of salvation because it gets to the point. In John 3:16 Jesus says, for God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son so that all who believe in him shall not parish but have everlasting life.I dont think that verse could be any more plain and to the point. In short, Jesus said if someone wants to have everlasting life they must believe in him, meaning Jesus, else the alternative is everlasting death, to parish, to be destroyed, etc. How much more plain and straight forward does he have to be?Paddy, just a comment about Eve eating an apple. Actu ally, genesis doesnt really say what kind of fruit it was she ate. All it says is she took from the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil and ate. It doesnt really say if it was an apple, banana, pair, peach, etc. I think this is a case of literalism at work because people have for centuries been calling it an apple when the type of fruit is never specified. In fact, it is possible the fruit is allegorical and represents forbidden knowledge rather than being a literal fruit. Make sense?Dark, yes, I definitely see where you are coming from. You are right debate with someone who has already made his/her mind up that they know all there is to know is pretty pointless. Unfortunately, alot of fundamentalists and even militant atheists fall into that category because all they can see is black and white and a discussion about something that falls into an area in between is impossible. They insist that their view is the one and only view which makes arguing with them a w aste of time and effort.I also agree with you about those people who subscribe to scientism because science, although very useful in many ways, is imperfect and is prone to mistakes. One shouldnt automatically believe something just because a scientist said it or put forth a hypothesis that has not been independently verified. That leads to huge mistakes, and scientists have been known to make them from time to time.In fact, not too long ago I read a book called Bad Science which exposes a number of cases where so-called alternative treatments in the health industry were rushed to market using poor research and in dependant study has found them to be useless. The alternative health products are bad about making false claims about their products that cant be backed up with real scientific study and people are being duped into buying them all because some scientist or medical doctor endorses it, and it turns out the people doing the endorsing are quite frankl y quacks. So just because a medical doctor or scientist says something doesnt necessarily make it so.As far as the militant atheists go who refuse to see any fallibility in the scientific method it is true that some of them like Richard Dawkins almost are as extreme as the Christian fundamentalists they are arguing with in their personal views. I think for those people who openly claim science is the be all and end all to truth they have some personal motivations that arent made plain in their books and in their lectures. Lets face it we are all human beings, we all want to be right, but a lot of times we embrace some position based on some emotional motivation as well as some rational reason.I can use myself as a perfect example. Although, I strongly believe there isnt enough evidence to support the existence of God Im also a realist to know that hypothesis hasnt been completely ruled out either. Still, my disbelief isnt based entirely on logic and reason alone. I have plenty of personal and deeply emotional reasons for disbelieving in the God of the bible. Some based on personal experiences that lead me to lose any belief in an all loving, all knowing, creator who cares about me or who will intervene on my behalf.To start with when I first found out I was going blind I was at that time a Christian, and I spent a lot of time on my knees in prayer for God to heal me, to not let me go blind, and I went blind anyway. My family took me to see a faith healer, he laid hands on me, and of course nothing happened. That placed the seeds of doubt in my mind that maybe God wasnt real, because the thing I most wanted was so obviously not granted regardless of how much I prayed.When I got a bit older, around 16, I had a girlfriend I cared very deeply for. She got a brain tumor, and although the doctors were able to safely remove the tumor doing so caused her a bunch of health issues in the p rocess. In a little over a year after we met she passed away, and I was positively furious at God. No matter how much I prayed God let her die anyway,
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Hi Tom. You are likely correct on history being the reason that a person chooses a certain belief or pattern, although with some rabbid atheists Ive met, (and of course being at a university Ive met more than a few), it is often simply that they have never seen the bennificial side of religion or have encountered religious people whos ideas of faith and God are not so simplistic. A great example of this line of thinking was Arthur C clarkes novel the mountains of paradise, which involve communication with an alien probe who gives humanity plans for advanced technology. In a very offhand section of the novel (which is actually much more concerned with that technology and the building of a space elivator), Clarke describes a bishop transmitting the entirety of Thomas Aquinas meditations to the probe to recieve the answer Bad data or something like that. What however struck me about this episode, is that Clarke imagines uot;aquinas as the pinacle of religious discourse. Aquinas was both a great theologian and schollar of his day, and indeed furthered the course of what we would now think of as mathematics and science, but the idea that all religious philosophy has remained static sinse the thirteenth century is ridiculous! sinse while undoubtedly there are people who still maintain beliefs that havent changed (like all those religious fundamentalists who are convinced on the 6000 year age of the earth which I believe was actually a scientific guess from the roman schollar Ptolomee). It often strikes me tthat a lot of rabbid atheists (as well as needing a good dose of philosophy of science), see religion as soemthing of a straw man and actively disregard the active faith and religious experiences of mystics, preferring to characterize all religious belief as that sort of easily answered fundamentalism. As regards suffering contradicting belief in God, while I do understand the position, at the same time it depends entirely on what you believe God to be capable of. I was never taught that God would literally intervine in the world, or that if I prayed for something it would automatically happen. Indeed when I! lost all of the vision of my right eye when i was seven in a massive expulsive hemmerage during an operation, which not only lost me most of my vision but also caused extreme and severe pain, I was never told to pray to God to make it better. Indeed the local vicar (himself having lost a leg in the war), came and gave me communian and talked to me about things. I was told bad things happen, but God would be there if I needed. As it turned out,that prooved literally true according to experiences, and something I remembered over the next few years, both when very alone at my specialist school and afterwards through some very bad circumstances.Probably the best quote Ive ever heard on this subject was at one meeting at Beth Shalom, a Br itish Memorial for victims of the Shoa (holocaust). Two survivers of the concentration camps were debating this. one chap felt (much as you do), that there could possibly be no God with what had happened to them in the concentration camps. he challenged the lady, who still maintained a belief in God and was a Practicing Jew where was God in the camps? to which she replied I knew where God was, I had no problem with where God was. The real question is where was man! Of course my current problem is that I am not so sure anymore of that relationship to God , however I would never say it doesnt exist for some people or that I didnt have it at one time, my own issue at the moment is that I am no longer convinced God actively cares about anyone who isnt in touch with God, and if you lose that communication well Tough Lukc.Regarding science and conspiracy theories and such, well while its absolutely true Ive seen a lo t of dud advertising and the like, at the sme time even major scientists can be guilty of bad science, indeed when I was studdying philosophy of a science a friend of mine (himself with extremely good qualifications in physics maths and chemistry), used to read the new scientist and point out articals that fell fowl of say experimental regress or making unfalsifyable claimes. To give one example, last year I watched a program on colour and psychology. One psychologist on the program (not a presenter, a qualified doctor of psychology), postulated that different colours would change peoples perceptions of time, that red, being associated with blood and fire and such would make people perceive time to pass more quickly, while blue, being associated with calm and cold would have the opposite effect. They took three groups of participants, and asked each to go individually into a coloured room and time how long they thought a minute was. One group went into a red room , the other a blue one, the control group into a plane black room.The prediction was that the group in the blue room would estimate a minute as longer because they perceived time more
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Dark, well, I do understand where you are coming from, but I dont think you fully understand where I am coming from regarding my views of religion and science. I suppose that for someone such as yourself who has spent their life studying philosophy and are use to debating with like minded individuals my views seem a bit simplistic and perhaps a bit narrow minded. While I can fully appreciate things like Thomas Kuhns discussion of scientific progress and paradigm shifts I dont think that can help me any when arguing with religious fundamentalists who have one view, and only one view, of the world. Ill be the first to admit my opinions are not completely objective and unbiased, and you are right to say that my personal experiences have colored my views to a certain degree.You said above you dont believe that religious fundamentalist views are very common over in the UK, and you wouldnt find them worth your time. You see, thats precise ly the problem. They are very common over here in the United States, and while I do not equate all Christians with Christian fundamentalists I do find myself arguing with fundamentalists who are very unreasonable and very irrational. As a result I cant afford to get into philosophical debates over religion and science because those people already have a very simplistic view of the world and I try to give them an alternative view of the world that is hopefully simple enough to grasp where I am coming from.To give you a prime example of something going on in my life right now that is pertinent to this discussion as you may or may not know my ex wife and I are going through a highly contested divorce. Right now I have taken my ex wife to court over our sons education. I want to enroll him in public school my ex wife and her family dont want him going to public school and instead want him enrolled in home school or in Christian bible school. The reason I o bject so strongly to either of those ideas is my ex wife, her parents, and most of her relatives are Christian fundamentalist types who take everything in the bible absolutely literally. They believe the entire universe was created in six literal days, they believe the universe is only 6,000 years old, and so on. They dont have a very high opinion of science and have told my son that Evolution is a lie, the Big Bang is a lie, and basically told my son not to listen to me because I dont know what I am talking about. They told him if he believes anything I tell him about science that he will go to hell which has poisoned his mind against me.Its easy for someone like yourself to be nonchalant and easy going about religion because you dont have a reason to fight over it. However, what would you do if you were trying to read your son a book about something like dinosaurs and when you tell him Tyrannosaurs Rex lived 65 million years ago only to have him repl y, mommy says that is a lie because the earth is only 6,000 years old?I dont know about you, but that sort of thing makes my blood boil. Thanks to freedom of religion being protected by the U.S. Constitution people like my ex are allowed to get by with teaching American children like my son absolute ignorant concepts such as the world is 6,000 years old without any proof or evidence to back it up. They are allowed to get by with poisoning children against science and making them distrust the scientific method and the analytic process in favor of just believing in the literal word of God. So in an instance like this yes faith and rationality are at odds with each other, because they are completely two different world views.When debating science and religion with someone like yourself I dont have an issue discussing concepts like the problem of induction or paradigm shift because we are both rational educated people. As for me personally I d ont think science holds all the answers and have experimented with a variety of religious views over the years because Id like to believe there is something more to life. When I was a college student I took a few comparative study courses on religion and as part of those course studies I spent some time studying Buddhism, Taoism, Hinduism, Islam, and Christianity. I think those studies were fascinating, and I did get a grudging respect for multiple points of view about God and the universe. However, I am and have always been more of a skeptical person at heart so I dont necessarily think I can subscribe to any religion based on faith alone. I prefer to apply Bayesian probability to any hypothesis I am uncertain about in order to gauge its probability or likelihood to see if it is something worth pursuing. So I am a bit of a doubter when it comes to things of the supernatural even though I would like to think there could be something more.As far as the topic of ethics goes I dont think ethics is a function of science either, nor do I believe ethics are exclusively a function of religion. I consider myself a humanist and as such
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin hi.i thought today and i have a question:as you know, in the old testament many times god says that if somebody will not do the things he said to do, this man will be destroyed from israel.i thought, why jesus didnt said this thing: who will not believ in me will be destroyed from israel?i mean that thing he could tell to the jews.maybe if he said that, today the jews were believing in him (jesus).so the question is: why he didnt told this thing?kamochek.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=174421#p174421 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Reading and learning about different markets have always been a passion with us. We welcome you to the world of UNLIMITED money,URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=174432#p174432 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Reading and learning about different markets have always been a passion with us. We welcome you to the world of UNLIMITED money,Trading Classes in ChennaiURL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=174432#p174432 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Hi Tom. Well as Ive said before I dont believe that fundamentalist, simplistic christian view is half as common over here, and to be honest I would not considder such a view to be worth my time or considderation. If I believed that to be the be all and end all of christianity and that was essentially all religion was I would likely be a complete atheist sinse it is blatantly and equally obvious that these things are mythological as you pointed out. That being said, I do believe you have a simplistic view of both faith and of scientific progress. I have studdied the scientific method, the problem of induction and of paradigm shift and I am not entirely convinced that science is so much a search for absolute truth or a method of adopting that truth as it appears. This is not to say that I believe creationism is correct, I dont, I just do not like the simplistic view of science and religion as opposing explanations of the universe or of faith and ratio nality as exclusively at odds. I also dont personally believe ethics is a function of science or crytical thinking either. Ethnic clensing and nazi beliefs were based on scientific and darwinist principles applied to social order, indeed if you read any Nazi propergander it is remarkable how rational the stuff is. While I would never disagree that religious fundamentalism of any sort can breed hatred from studdying ethics for a significantly long time I am not convinced that rationality or crytical thought alone is automatically a guide to good action without some form of empathy or active considderation for the suffering of others to back it up. I suspect though this is an area where your experiences of religion vs your experience of science have coloured your outlook, which is understandable, which is likely why we wont agree on this although I would recommend you read up on some of the philosophers of science such as Paul Fierabent and Thomas Kuhn. < p>Getting back to religion, Interestingly enough there was a series on the bbc a while ago called Around the world in 80 faiths in which a pretty average church of England vicar wandered around the world exploring different religions. ironically the country he liked least was america sinse he actually said he found no kinship with his own idea of what christianity was in any of the varients of American christianity he attended.I must admit I am always confused when people characterize faith as this sort of mystical force that allows belief without proof. That is not to me what faith is or indeed anything I could have a respect for, nor is it what I tend to have encountered when i run across those people who I actually feel to have a relationship with God. I would myself characterize faith much more as a felt relationship between a person and God, an active and participatory thing which is not exclusively tied to one or other explanation of where humans came from so much as it is a path of meditation and outlook, indeed I find it odd that you praise pantheistic religious experience without considdering that the very term pantheism was coined by christian mystics who spoke of an intimate connection in all things to God. Id suggest you examine Spinosas philosophy particularly for this sort of view. As regards religious experience, my own experiences were a good bit more profound than just feeling warm while preying orr attributing events to the will of God, indeed as per David Humes deffinition of religious experience, I cant adequately explain them sinse we dont actually possess words that would be understandable. It is also incorrect to assume that what I sensed was an exclusively passive experience either. It was not true that I saw god for example so much as I felt something which was not me, which was infinite, or at least felt that way, and which was to tally unlike any other experience Ive ever had. About the closest I can come is saying it was like floating in a blackish light, but that is incredibly inadequate. I use the term god as its the word most people tend to use for that sort of experience, but in many ways its an inadequate term. Neither were they particularly frequent , I have only had perhaps three in my life, however I was always able to summon echoes of those experiences at will by the appropriate meditation, though that is the part which has fallen off, hence my agnosticism, or at least my agnosticism on the idea that the thing we call god actively bothers about humanity.I dont ask you to believe these experiences. Indeed a good agnostic friend of mine once said that to him they were like a program trying to open an incorrect file type, which is likely correct sinse one of the problems of human language is we dont really have adequate terminology to explai n such experiences accept to people who might have shared something similar (one reason why for a while I called myself a universalist and believed that all religions were pointing at the same thing). However hopefully
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin hi.i have 2 questions:1. what the diferent between the preest, between the minister and the pastor?strange, the anglican church (church of england) is very similar to the catholic, exept that they arent praying in latin and dont believ in the pope. but their liturgies somehow similar to the catholic liturgies.but in jerusalem, there is a church called christ church which belongs to the church of england, but their services are like the messianic jewish and the evangelical christians services.how can it be, if it belongs to the church of england, the services like the messianic jewish and evangelical christian services?on sundays and other days there are anglicans in the church, and on saturdays there is a messianic jewish service.kamochek.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=174011#p174011 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin hi.i have 2 questions:1. what the diferent between the preest, between the minister and the pastor?strange, the anglican church (church of england) is very similar to the catholic, exept that they arent praying in latin and dont believ in the pope. but their liturgies somehow similar to the catholic liturgies.but in jerusalem, there is a church called christ church which belongs to the church of england, but their services are like the messianic jewish and the evangelical christians services.how can it be, if it belongs to the church of england, the services like the messianic jewish and evangelical christian services?on sundays and other days there are anglicans in the church, and on saturdays there is a messianic jewish service.and an extra question: i know how are the orthodox jewish services, the catholic services and the messianic jewish services.how are the muslim services?what the muslim are doing in their services?kamochek.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=174011#p174011 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Kamochek, the word minister is generally a catch all term for anyone who teaches at a Protestant church. Each denomination has its own title for minister be it reverend, pastor, etc but they all basically mean the same thing. The term priest usually specifically refers to a Catholic priest which performs the same purpose as Protestant ministers with one notable difference.Catholic priests are forbidden to marry and have sex. Protestant ministers have no such restriction so can marry, have children, and most do.I suppose there are some minor differences I could mention such as the way they dress. Generally Catholic priests where a black robe and clerical collar which identifies their rank or position within the church. Protestant ministers, at least here in the US, just where a nice suit and tie to church.Dark, thats very interesting that you once considered being a priest. Although, not too surprising. When I was a teen I also considered joining th e ministry, and that was at a time when I was much more serious about my religious beliefs than I am now. Also like you I am glad I hadnt joined, because I think a lot of time and money would have been wasted on theological school seeing how Ive gone from very religious to very agnostic towards any and all religious beliefs. Although, apparently that sort of thing happens quite a lot more than one might think.Ive recently ordered a new book called Caught in the Pulpit which is about several ministers who have done that very thing. They went through theological school, got ordained, became a minister at a church, and discovered after several years went by they no longer believe in Christianity. They had doubts, questions, and wanted to get out and found it was very hard to leave the community. Often they had wives and children that resented their change in beliefs, friends in the church shunned them, and they became a pariah simply because they st arted having doubts or no longer believed in Christianity.I have experienced some of that myself, but nowhere as bad as the people in the book. Thats why I am glad I never became a minister, because if I openly disclosed what I think and believe now after having been a minister for x amount of time I could have ended up in the same sort of situation as those people. People arent too forgiving about abandoning ones religious beliefs in favor of a more skeptical and scientific view of life.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=174024#p174024 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Hi!By myself, Latin language was used during the Roman period. Novadays this is sometimes funy, when Latin will be the world language.PS: Latin was also used as official language in Christian world.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=174025#p174025 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin @Camochek, well with the Church of England it generally depends upon how formal the individual priest and their congrigation are. The average is pretty much as I described, slightly like the catholic service, however there are some that are more informal and do not include as much of the litergy, and some that are even more formal. Ive even heard of Church of England priests who still conduct Latin services but this is extremely rare. As regards Islamic services, well sinse Muslims have a great respect for the Koran the Koran is the core of the service and basically all Islamic worship goes around it. When i was in Egypt, a muslim chap I grew to be good friends with also told me islam is very much against having elaborate rituals or symbols. Ive also heard that Islam has far more by way of random sects and interpretations than any other religion, so far more is up to individual interpretation of the Koran rather than there being an official position held by a ma in authority such as The Church. Though generally youd probably be better off asking a Muslim about that. Regarding the different terms for priest, as I have understood it while each christian group tends to refer to their priests in a different way, it is also cultural. For example in Britain the term minister is not really used in the church of England, sinse fully ordaned priests tend to be called Vicars, (a term which I suspect is relatively exclusive to the Uk), though there are other ranks in the church as well, for example Deacons are ordaned but do not have the authority to carry out services, and mostly do the pastural care end of being a priest, while Each cathedral as well as having a Bishop who will administrate the hole Diaces, will also have a Dean or a provost, who essentially preforms the duties of a vicar for the Cathedral, carrying out everyday services etc. Btw amusingly enough, my religious studdies teacher at my last school was actually called Mr. Vicars, which a lot of people found quite funny.Ive also never heard the term reverend used in the Church of England other than occasionally as a formal form of address for arch bishopps. Most more old fashioned priests tended to be addressed as father and their last name much as catholic priests are, though these days thats falling off and most Vicars are just refered to by name. Methodists and some other churches do! refer to their priests as ministers, while the termpastor Ive only ever seen used by penticostalists. @Tom I dont myself see too much conflict between science and religion, indeed in some ways Im beginning to think that the classic rational vs emotional view of human thought is extremely incorrect and the two are far less easy to separate. I can see problems if you think it is necessary to believe (as you have said most American christians do), that the Bible is literally true, that Evolution cannot exist etc. However to me that has never been an issue, indeed thinking about the point when i had a lot to do with the church, I remember being ten and having confirmation classes with the local vicar and even raising the question of how the 7 day creation, the garden of Eden etc could be true given evolution, the big bang etc. he replied that the main point of the story was that God created the world and humanity had rebelled against God in the past and the world was imperfect because of that rebellion, so it didnt actually matter whether there was an adam and eve etc. Indeed myself back when i believed in God I often used to meditate on concepts in of astro physix like the big bang or big crunch, and believeed them to be evidencee at least to me of the existance of god sinse according to my own religious experiences God was pretty infinite. You can probably therefore see why i took to the philosophy of spinosa and ideas of process theology so well once I discovered them. The main reason I didnt become a priest was firstly that firstly after the church were so nasty to my mum when she tried to become ordaned, I didnt want to get mixed up with that, and secondly that though i loved the religious philosophy, meditation and speculation there was a lot of stuff involved in studdying theology such as biblical translation that didnt interest me half as much.My personal issue with God is a lot more immediate and less philosophical, sinse Ive found that the worse my life got the less I could rely on discovering those echoes of the religious experiences I had. In short the worse life got the more distant God seemed to be. This is why at the moment Im very close to being agnostic, sinse while I still believe my own religious experiences, I am no longer particularly convinced what we called God gives two hoots about humanity at all. That people can be in conta ct with God in some way I dont doubt, indeed I occasionally do meet someone I would actively considder to have an heir of holiness about them, but Im less certain there is much going on the other way. This
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin To be honest camochek you seem pretty obsessive about finding a service which is superficially similar to what you know. Heck, im fairly certain not all messianic jews work in the same way sinse I do know for a fact there are messianic jews who follow a much more Orthodox mode of worship, as I have met some at the counsel for christians and jews. its the same with the Church of England. Most are middle of the road, with some rituals similar to the catholics but some informalities, some are more formal (as I said I once heard of a Church of England priest who insisted on latin mass), and I know for instance not everyone in the Church of England agreed on having female priests although the Archbishop of Canterberry put his foot down over that one, some are far less formal, sojust reciting the creed and the lords prayer and mostly having a far less rigid order of service,. Heck even whether the hymns are extremely old English ones or modern ones, and whether the bi ble readings come from the King James Bible or a more modern and simple translation, and whether the readings are given in plane speech or as a chant is really up to the choice of the priest and what he or she thinks best suits their congrigation.This is why I said earlier you have to look at what people believe, not merely how they practice and you cant so easily say even within the same dinomination eg, church of england Messianic jews what the single right kind of worship is.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=174041#p174041 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Interesting. The church announcements would usually be made at the end, but the announcement of weddings was actually a formal part of the service held midway through. The priest would say something like So and so bachelor of the parish of (insert name of the priests church), wishes to marry so and so spinster of (insert name of the brides church), if anyone know a reason why these two should not be joined in holy matrimony yee are to declare it This would be asked three times over successive weeks before the wedding. I suspect its a hold over from the days when churches were the center of each small community and weddings were a lot more of a public community thing and a lot more formal than now. I believe there were! wednesday night survices, but I dont actually remember ever going to themm, when I was growing up we just went to church on Sunday, and on special occasions like christmas and easter. Its actually funny now to think for quite a while as a teenager I was very seriously considdering becoming a priest, I even did a work experience when i was 14 with a university chaplaincy, though my interest was much more in the helping people and talking to God than in trying to conduct services or wanting to climb the church ranks, actually given my current issue with God Im glad I decided not to do that in the end, especially after the less than friendly reception my mum got when she attempted to become ordaned herself (its very easy to discriminate against disabled people when you can claime God is involved). These days my parents dont tend to bother going to church accept perhaps sometimes at christmas primarily for the carrol singing. My dad actually did contemplate trying to convert to jewdeism for a while, which is one reason I got involved with the counsel for christians and Jews. Funny you mentioning Handels messiah. Im actually singing eve ry valley shal be exhaulted in a competitive music festival next saturday (although Im going more for the performing experience than to actually bother with the competition). despite the fact that God and I are no longer exactly getting on, I still absolutely love it as a piece of music, and whatever else I can appreciate the dedication of someone who wrote something like that. I also really like every valley specifically, sinse i love the way the runs build up, its a real physical work out for the abdominal muscles, and also a great one to get emotionally excited about. When I really cant be bothered to practice and am feeling distinctly annoyed with my voice I tend to sing every valley just to wake myself up and give myself a major work out :d.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=173908#p173908 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Kamochek, I no longer go to church on a regular basis so I am not in a position to record services for you, but as I have been to a number of different churches I can probably give you a written description of the various denominations and how they usually perform their services. That said, I do not believe any of them are similar to Messianic Judaism, because as I understand it Messianic Judaism tends to be very formal and doesnt have a lot of music etc which many Christian services have.To give you an example you asked about how Catholic services are performed. There is quite a bit to an average Catholic service, and very little time is actually spent on bible teaching. An average Catholic service involves a lot of singing, some praying, reciting things like the Lords Prayer, taking communion, etc. Its a very formal but traditional structure that is pretty much the same from Catholic Parish to Catholic Parish.When you walk into a Catholic parish y ou may find a few people on their knees in private prayer or doing the rosary before the service starts. If you were Catholic you would probably join them in that time to meditate, prayer, whatever. When the service starts everyone stands up, the priest comes out, and together they will sing one or two songs. After that he will lead them in reciting the Apostles Creed and the Lords Prayer. They may sing a couple more songs, and everybody sits down. A reader will come up to the front of the church, and read a couple of verses from the old testament. At that point everyone will say something like the word of the Lord. They might sing another song, and then another reader comes up and reads a bible verse from the New Testament. This is probably followed by another song. At that point the priest comes out and explains the lesson associated with the bible readings. If I am not mistaken that is where they have a short intermission to meet and greet people in the ch urch, shake hands, say hello, and then they have communion. After communion there is more singing, and the priest does his closing. That is a rough idea of a typical Catholic service. I may have forgotten a few things as its been about 16 years or so since I have been to one, but I think that gives you the general idea.In my experience protestant churches such as Methodists, Baptists, Presbyterians, etc are far less formal and dont have any specific structure to their services like the Catholics. Alot of the protestant churches I have been to usually have a service like this. You walk in and everyone sings a couple of songs. Then, they might take a few minutes to offer some news or church announcements followed by prayer requests. This might be followed by personal testimonials about prayers that were answered or continued prayer requests. They may sing a few more songs at this point, and then the kids are sent off to Sunday School while the minister comes o ut and gives the days sermon. They sing a few more songs, and then the minister gives a closing by leading the church in prayer, gives some last minute announcement, and everyone leaves.I am not sure if this was the answer you were looking for, but I hope I gave you a general idea of how a lot of Christian services are performed. You can take from it what you will.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=173821#p173821 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin That is interesting Tom. What you describe as a catholic service is very much the same format as all of the Church of England services I have been to, including the one I went to every sunday while growing up there was no saying of rosaries etc however much else was very similar. Singing hymns in English, reciting of things like the crede, and the Lords prayer, or responding to what the vicar said. Then having a bible reading and likely a sermon which may or may not be based onn the bible, then finishing with shaking hands and saying peace be with you followed by communian and the final blessing. There would also be a formal spraying of insence by the thurafer, who would be assisted by an alter boy or in some churches an altar girl (this depended upon the attitude of the Vicar), indeed I was altar boy for a while including during midnight mas at christmas which was quite a lovely experience being that the church was entirely dark and lit with candles and that everyone sang christmas carrols. Its also usual for all Church of England Churches to have a choir, and to occasionally have hymns soung by the choir which the congrigation listen to, indeed the only time I have ever heard singing in Latin in a church of England church it has always been done by the choir only and not expected of the general congrigation.the only thing you didnt mention is that in all of the Church of England services I went to they would always announce any mariages that were going on in the parish. Funnily enough the messianic jewish services Ive been to with the counsel for Christians and Jews were much less formal than the Orthodox jewish ones. They did for example have a pianist and have singing of the jewish acquivolent of hymns, although these were usually in Hebrew, though they did involve actual tunes. Then again the messianic Jewish community in nottingham were much closer to the progressive rathe r than orthodox end of Jewdaeism, and involved a lot of private prayer, and indeed some rather nice choral musical improvising which was always lovely to hear and indeed participate in.When I have attended methodist services they have also been a good deal less formal, indeed the minister (theyre not called vicars), only does the occasional reading, and mostly they involve people sitting around discussing things, chatting, or occasionally offering private prayers. I actually liked the idea a lot although I do slightly miss the music sinse at the methodist services Ive been to they only had a couple of fairly standard and symple hymns soung, rather than having a huge organ the way most C of E churches do. As I understand it, penticostal services and baptists are rather more as you describe the American ones. Lots more by way of freeform stuff, including people hit with the holy spirit, speaking in tongues etc, and dont involve anything like as formal r esponses by the congrigation, but Id personally be slightly less comfortable with that style of worship sinse as I said wwhenever Ive seen people engaged with it it has usually come with a lot of hatred and xenophobia, and while I dont imagine this is universal, Ive seen it enough to believe that its likely to occur more often in more emotionally charged forms of worship.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=173831#p173831 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin That is interesting Tom. What you describe as a catholic service is very much the same format as all of the Church of England services I have been to, including the one I went to every sunday while growing up there was no saying of rosaries etc however much else was very similar. Singing hymns in English, reciting of things like the crede, and the Lords prayer, or responding to what the vicar said. Then having bible readings from the old and new testament which would be given either by the vicar or sometimes by previously arranged volunteers and likely a sermon which may or may not be based onn the earlier bible reading, then finishing with shaking hands and saying peace be with you followed by communian and the final blessing. There would also be a formal spraying of insence by the thurafer, who would be assisted by an alter boy or in some churches an altar girl (this depended upon the attitude of the Vicar), indeed I was altar boy for a while including during midnight mas at christmas which was quite a lovely experience being that the church was entirely dark and lit with candles and that everyone sang christmas carrols. Its also usual for all Church of England Churches to have a choir, and to occasionally have hymns soung by the choir which the congrigation listen to, indeed the only time I have ever heard singing in Latin in a church of England church it has always been done by the choir only and not expected of the general congrigation.the only thing you didnt mention is that in all of the Church of England services I went to they would always announce any mariages that were going on in the parish. Funnily enough the messianic jewish services Ive been to with the counsel for Christians and Jews were much less formal than the Orthodox jewish ones. They did for example have a pianist and have singing of the jewish acquivolent of hymns, although these were usually in Hebrew, t hough they did involve actual tunes. Then again the messianic Jewish community in nottingham were much closer to the progressive rather than orthodox end of Jewdaeism, and involved a lot of private prayer, and indeed some rather nice choral musical improvising which was always lovely to hear and indeed participate in.When I have attended methodist services they have also been a good deal less formal, indeed the minister (theyre not called vicars), only does the occasional reading, and mostly they involve people sitting around discussing things, chatting, or occasionally offering private prayers. I actually liked the idea a lot although I do slightly miss the music sinse at the methodist services Ive been to they only had a couple of fairly standard and symple hymns soung, rather than having a huge organ the way most C of E churches do. As I understand it, penticostal services and baptists are rather more as you describe the American ones. Lots more by way o f freeform stuff, including people hit with the holy spirit, speaking in tongues etc, and dont involve anything like as formal responses by the congrigation, but Id personally be slightly less comfortable with that style of worship sinse as I said wwhenever Ive seen people engaged with it it has usually come with a lot of hatred and xenophobia, and while I dont imagine this is universal, Ive seen it enough to believe that its likely to occur more often in more emotionally charged forms of worship.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=173831#p173831 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin hi.the messianic jews services is the following: you go to the messianic congregation, wait for a time and the pastor will begin the service.then, starting to sing songs (in the congregation where my grandma is going singing in hebrew and russian) and they having musical instruments like piano, drumms, a standart guitar, an electronic guitar, guitar base and windchimes. the service itself is in in fridays or sabbaths. after the singing, the kids going also to sondayschool. they are in groups: the first group is for teenagers from 12-18, the lower group is for 6-12 years old, and the lowest group is for babys.but on the service first collecting money (diesiatina) from russian i dont know how this word in english, then the pastor speaking a sermon.on fridays there is also parashat ha shavua like in the sinagog, and after the service they lighting the candles for sabbath and doing kabalat shabat.once a month they doing insted of k abalat shabat the thing where eating jesuss body and drinking his bludd.i mean the wine and the bread. they using the pesah matsa for this and if im remember correctly drinking jeuce of grapes.and i frogot theat they praying for each pray requiers before the kabalat shabat or the mass if i know correctly.dark, you told something that we diferent from the orthodox jews.so what doing in the orthodox services? i mean jewish orthodox and not christian orthodox.ive hared i think the raby singing in the sinagog, and my comment: not beutiful music.but i want to know what doing in the jewish orthodox services in the sinagog.kamochek.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=173845#p173845 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Actually camochek that sounds a lot like the Messianic jews I have met. The term you mean for eating the bread and wine representing the body and blood of Christ is communian.As regards orthodox services, well bare in mind Ive not been to many, however one difference was that there was no music beyond very formal hebrew chants by the Rabbi or other specially trained religious figures, there was no singing of songs or the like. There would be a Cerimonial unrolling of the scroll of the tora, which are kept in very beautiful and ornate cases, and the Rabbi would read part of it, though again this would be done in a very formal style in Hebrew. It also seemed that the service was extremely formal in terms of different rituals and responses by the congrigation, which were all in hebrew. Also bare in mind that obviously in England most people (including most jews), speak English as a first language rather than talking Hebrew at home, indeed as I understand it among orthodo x jews hebrew is treated very much as a formal language just for conducting religious services. Another major difference I remember is that though most people in orthodox services wore everyday clothes, as a mark of respect everyone would have their heads covered before entering the sinagog.I am not sure on specific rituals conducted, sinse I have not been to many, indeed you would probably be better off talking to an orthodox jew about that.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=173856#p173856 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Kamochek, I believe the word you are looking for is tithe. To tithe is to collect money for the church by passing around a plate or having a donation box where the congregation can give money to the church for various things.The other word is communion. To take communion is to drink wine and to eat bread to symbolize the body and blood of Christ.Dark, very interesting. I knew the Church of England was similar to Catholic services in many ways but I had no idea they were that close. A lot of what you described is similar to my own experience in Catholic services I attended when I was Catholic.I did forget to mention the priest would often make announcements at the beginning of the service of upcoming weddings and other church news, but I think my post above was intended to give Kamochek a basic overview of a typical Catholic mass rather than a minute by minute run down of every little detail. Some things like church announcements are so common that I guess that slipped my mind when describing a basic service.However, I agree the Christmas Eve masses were definitely the best. They were always held the evening before Christmas at night time so the church was dark except for the candles that were lit which was a completely different atmosphere than the typical Wednesday night or Sunday morning masses. Of course they sung Christmas carols like Joy to the World, Silent Night, Oh Holy Night, and Handles Messiah. Just thinking about it brings back some very happy memories of the smell of candle wax, incense, and the sound of the organ as people sang Christmas carols.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=173887#p173887 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Unfortunately not, its only in German, but it would be worth it translating this series into English.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=173386#p173386 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Kamochek, I certainly have read “The Adventures of Tom Soyer” as it is an American classic. For many years it was standard reading material for elementary school age children. Although, I am not sure it is still standard reading for elementary age children in public schools today. At any rate I certainly have read it.As for the type of church Tom Soyer went to Mark Twain never specifically said what kind of church it was. If you want my personal opinion I believe it was a non-denominational Christian church which were quite common in the south in the early 1800s. You need to understand that Tom Soyer takes place in the 1840s, in Missouri, which was only beginning to be settled. As such there was not a lot of churches and there may only be one church per village or town at that time. They didnt have a church on every street corner so they didnt have Methodist, Baptist, Lutheran, Presbyterian, etc to choose from. There was one church and only one church for miles so they tended to be non-denominational to accommodate everyone in the town or county.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=173273#p173273 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin @Kamochek,As mentioned before, please use the edit function and try to stop double or tripple posting. Its not that we dont like it if you want to add something and no one else posted under your current post, but please, if thats the case, try using the edit post function and add some lines.I uploaded a German audio play cut which takes place in a war (God and his angles against Lucifer and his hords). An angle, who couldnt decide whether to fight for god or Lucifer, plays the main role. He tried to tell another angle to be neutral either, but he (Maleius) decides to fight for God. The still neutral angle, Raven, has been spotted by a higher ranked angle, thats the person who only speaks Latin in the whole sceene, when Maleius fell besides raven, woonded by somebody.The high-ranked person we dont know who he actually is, asked Raven on which side he is fighting. He told him because he is neutral, the consequence is that Raven w ill be sent to the Tribunal of the angles, so they decide what to do with him.Raven is a fallen angle, who told Faith, the main character in this series, how he actually became a fallen angle.However its only a parralel story, Faith van Helsing is a person who has lost her parents and his whole family, which has been killed. She is the only van Helsing left who fights against the dark side.A few posts earlier you mentioned praying to god because of your blindness.If you want to hear my personal opinion of that: I dont miss anything, since I am blind since birth. So I avoid becoming sighted again if it would be possible, because there are several reasons:Firstly, I have to learn seeing with my eyes properly.Secondly, I may have to learn print and how to write properly. I know a few print letters, but I can only write properly if theres enough space.And last, but not least: Since I dont have my right eye anymore and my left eye isnt in tact either, getting sight may be combined with a lot of operations which may fail and everything could go wrong. And I am happy, even if I cannot see. I am blind, but not some kind of dumb.Blindness sucks, but I dont know how it feels like being sighted. So I dont bother myself with asking myself how it could feel like.I dont know how you became blind, but if you think praying to any kind of god will solve your problem, be optimistic and continue praying.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=173290#p173290 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin hi.as for the edit post: i didnt found something like that, so i dont know how to do the edit post.as for my blindness: i am blind since my birth.kamochek.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=173292#p173292 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Kamochek, it is very easy to edit a prior post. Go to the post you want to edit and below it will be a number of buttons like Report, Delete, Edit, etc. Simply arrow to or tab to the Edit button and press enter. Then you will be able to edit your post.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=173293#p173293 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin hi.thanks, i have found the edit post.and tward, as for you said that i have to talk to a catholic face to face if i want to know what they believing in, that what you said few posts back, im interesting not what in they believing, but im also interesting in what doing in the churches from the diferent dinomination, to know which churches close to the messianic jewdaism and which are not.so because of that, i want anybody here on fourum if he/she going to a church in sunday and if he/she want and can to record the service and upload it here.and if it is posible, that ill here some services from diferent denominations.one service from each denomination: catholic, anglican, methodist, lutheran and etc.so, if it posible, do that.if not, so maybe the god dont want that ill listen to that.kamochek.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/vi ewtopic.php?pid=173298#p173298 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin @Paddy is that series you mention in English? if so it might be an interesting one to listen to, sinse I tend to find fiction with a theological bent can be a good way of exploring some ideas. @Camochek, if your not interested in what people believe then why be interested in the sound of other religious practices? to me that sounds pretty nonsensical, sinse there is so much symbolism and necessary history in any religious service that it would be very incomprehensible if you dont at least have some understanding of what is going on and why, particularly if the service is not taking place in a language you speak.I also dont really see what superficial similarity to the sound of messionic jewish services has to do with anything. Heck, on that score Islamic prayer is very! similar, sinse it employs no symbols, involves very similar sounding chanting and very little by way of ritual, and its not until you understand what is happening that you would no that very different beliefs are being practiced, eg, no mentions of Jesus or the tora despite the actual sound of events being initially similar.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=173301#p173301 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin @Paddy is that series you mention in English? if so it might be an interesting one to listen to, sinse I tend to find fiction with a theological bent can be a good way of exploring some ideas. Im particularly looking forward to reading Tad williams bobby dollar series for that reason, sinse Williams is one of my favourite authors and seeing how he handles the business of heaven and hell, angels and demons etc will be quite interesting. @Camochek, if your not interested in what people believe then why be interested in the sound of other religious practices? to me that sounds pretty nonsensical, sinse there is so much symbolism and necessary history in any religious service that it would be very incomprehensible if you dont at least have some understanding of what is going on and why, particularly if the service is not taking place in a language you speak.I also dont really see what superfici al similarity to the sound of messionic jewish services has to do with anything. Heck, on that score Islamic prayer is very! similar, sinse it employs no symbols, involves very similar sounding chanting and very little by way of ritual, and its not until you understand what is happening that you would no that very different beliefs are being practiced, eg, no mentions of Jesus or the tora despite the actual sound of events being initially similar.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=173301#p173301 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Kamochek, I think you misunderstood the point of my prior post on this thread. I didnt actually mean you had to go to a Catholic church or listen to their sermons. What I was trying to say is if you want to know what Catholics actually believe you need to talk to someone who is Catholic. More than one would be better as you would get a more rounded opinion. As Dark pointed out just going to a Catholic church or listening to a Catholic mass on TV or radio isnt enough to explain why they believe what they believe or do what they do because they assume you already know those things. Therefore you really need to speak to someone who is Catholic face to face and ask them questions rather than just making your own assumptions based on what you hear.To give you an example when I was in my late teens/early 20s I had a few friends who were Catholic. One day I asked one of them why they prayed to Mother Mary, the saints, etc instead of praying to Jesus. Turns out my question was based on a number of false assumptions, and that Catholics do pray to Jesus. What I had assumed were prayers is something Catholics call intercession.Catholics believe that a priest, saint, or someone else can intercede on your behalf and pray for you. Therefore you can ask say Mother Mary to bless you, heal you, whatever and she will intercede on your behalf and ask God to grant you your prayer. For someone who isnt Catholic that sounds a bit crazy, but the point is that Catholics do not consider them prayers. Merely requests for that saint etc to intercede on their behalf and help them with whatever the problem is.Once you have it explained to you about the doctrine of intercession many of the things Catholics do such as the rosary makes more sense. Without having it explained to you hearing a priest do the rosary with his church would be quite confusing. All you would hear is something like hale Mary, queen of peace, bless us. If you dont know he is asking for intercession you might assume he is praying to Mary which isnt really what he is doing.As for how to handle your father Im not quite sure how to advise you on that issue. One thing I can say you are still very young, only 15, and at that age you are going to have to face the fact as long as you live under your fathers roof you need to try and obey his rules and not make an issue out of your beliefs right now. When you get older, are an adult, you will have much more freedom to explore other beliefs and will have the right to do what you want within reason.I dont know how much freedom you have to use the computer, but if you can it would be helpful to checkout a number of church websites, and to read their mission statements etc. Almost every church I know of has a basic page that gives you an overview of beliefs and that might be helpful to you in terms of giving you a general overview of what they believe. About the Lutherans Im sorry but your English was a bit confusing. Can you try and rephrase your question. What you wrote above was really unclear and was full of grammatical and spelling errors.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=173194#p173194 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Kamochek:I totally understand that you feel sadness regarding to your sickness as you mentioned a few posts back.I wanna tell you the trooth which I hope you both will be able to believe and understand:Nomadder what kind of god you believe, he can not do anything about it without you do something active about it. You cant just keep praying to the god about your sickness and hope the best, because, nothing will happen.what Ill recommend you to do is the following:Save up a lot of money, and start to ask around in other countries to see if doctors and other kinds of experts can do a better job of helping you with your sickness than your own country.The chances of getting your sight back is very minimal. That depends on how you have become blind. I can not say anything regarding to the other issues you have. But you might be lucky that experts in other countries can be helpful. Your english is good enough to communicate with other engli sh speaking people, so I can only recommend you to give this a try.No, Im not trying to get you down, blame you, harm you or anything like that. Im just trying to be realistic and give you a helpful suggestion.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=173196#p173196 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Well i agree with Tom, however I do think it would be advisable to at least tell your parents your interested in learning about other religions, though of course if your parents are dogmatically against catholics or any other religion that might not be a good idea, however usually communication is always helpful. Ironically, it was my mothers dissatisfaction with the church and her failed attempt to become ordained (another story), that got my dad interested in judeism which ended up with him and myself doing a lot of interfaith things. Regarding lutherans, well certainly in England it is only radically puritan protestants (of which there arent many these days), who would considder it wrong to have a bell tower or ornamentation and statues in churches. Indeed I did my A levels at the school attached to southwell minster, a cathedral built in the 12th century, and I currently go to the university of Durham, where there is a cathedral buil t in the 11th century (I had my graduation in there). All of these cathedrals definitely have bell towers and are very ornamental, although i believe during the reformation they wer heavily damaged by anti catholic protesters. Still at the moment they are very beautifull and I personally appreciate the history and art needed to make them (they also have wonderful accoustics).URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=173204#p173204 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin @Kamocheck,Would you mind using the edit post section if no one else have posted under your current post? Just go to the end of your current post and write a few lines under it.Okay, I uploaded a short cut:https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/516 … ng_cut.wavI placed the intro which explains where the cut comes from, so I am not getting in trouble with any Copyright rights.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=173227#p173227 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin @Kamocheck,Would you mind using the edit post section if no one else have posted under your current post? Just go to the end of your current post and write a few lines under it.Okay, I uploaded a short cut:https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/516 … ng_cut.wavI placed the intro which explains where the cut comes from, so I hope I am not getting in trouble with any Copyright rights.To make sure of that, I may remove the cut after a few days, depending on what the admins think.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=173227#p173227 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin @Kamochek,Would you mind using the edit post section if no one else have posted under your current post? Just go to the end of your current post and write a few lines under it.Okay, I uploaded a short cut:https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/516 … ng_cut.wavI placed the intro which explains where the cut comes from, so I hope I am not getting in trouble with any Copyright rights.To make sure of that, I may remove the cut after a few days, depending on what the admins think.About the bell tower:Every christian church does have a bell tower. They usually ring the bells one time when its a quarter past, two times when its half past, three times when its a quarter to, and at last, some church bells ring four times with a higher tone to indicate the full hour, and then they ring a few more times with a deeper tone, depending on what time it is. If its five o clock, it rings five times.To indicate times when people come together into the church, they start ringing something around five minutes and quit ringing when it starts, but only at a special time like 7pm.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=173227#p173227 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin hi paddy.not any christian church haves a bell tower.the pentacostals, baptists, messianic jews and evangelical christians doesnt have in their churches a bell tower.kamochek.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=173239#p173239 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin hi thom.you have told that i must to speak to a catholic face to face, and it is not enough to listen to the service.but i talked about listen not only to t catholic service, but to an anglican, lutheran and other confesions.kamochek.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=173240#p173240 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin and paddy:what was that you have uploaded?it is in latin and deutch?URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=173241#p173241 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Camochek, I dont know what your on about with bell towers. in Britain at least nearly every christian church has a bell tower, whether they are church of England or catholic, indeed I regularly hear the cathedral bells from my flat in Durham. Many are very old and historical buildings, and bells are equally historical, indeed there are still villages in Britain with people who get together to regularly ring the church bells.The only churches that dont tend to have bell towers tend to be those in more modern buildings or in some of the brands of christianity that are specifically anti ornamentation such as the quakers. Personally I dont see that it makes a difference, and indeed Id very much miss the sound of the church bells especially at my flat. Indeed I have gone to warrick where they have a carillian, an absolutely massive organ in a tower setup with a set of bells to ring, I even got to play that brief ly myself which was quite an awsome experience, pulling down a key and getting a bell to ring out!URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=173242#p173242 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin hi.i think the modern churches like catholic, will still use the bells.there is no church, where the bells are ringing without people, but an electric system which ringing the bells automaticaly?and i have a question which interesting me, and i cant solv this question:have you read the book the adventures of tom soyer? in this book as the readers know, thom went to a church (chapter 4 and 5.)so, what do you feel: which church is it?i think that it is a lutheran church.am i wright?kamochek.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=173246#p173246 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Well Camochek, some churches I believe use electronic bells, but as I said in Britain there are lots of very traditional churches, some of them close to a thousand years old who still use the real thing. Ill let someone who knows far more about American church history than I do answer your question about tom soyer, but really camochek why the heck does it matter? I remember Tom soyer rightly (sinse its been a good while sinse I read it), the chapters about tom going to the church showed more how Tom himself was a fairly typical young boy and found religion generally quite boring accept for what he could get out of it, ie, all that business about memorizing bible verses and his rather goolish interest in punishment and damnation and the thought of God striking people with lightning etc. It struck me MArk Twane new a lot about life and about what boys would be interested in, more than he was actually concerned with t he church itself.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=173254#p173254 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Kamochek, although Catholics do decorate their churches with statues, pictures, and various other forms of religious art they do not in fact pray to them. Praying to a statue would be blasphemy to a Catholic. This is another case where you have been mislead what Catholics actually believe based on misinformation. It is a case of an outsider putting his/her own interpretation on what Catholics do or do not do.This comes back to what Dark and I said earlier in this thread. You really need to research more about people and their faiths rather than just assuming you know based on gossip and roomer. There is a lot of false information and false biases out there about Catholics which have little basis in fact, or were true a long time ago but is no longer the case now. So please do some research before stating something false as fact.To give you an example when I was in my early 20s I didnt know much about Catholics either. I believed a lot of things based on r oomer. I ended up meeting a friend in college who was a devote Catholic and he invited me to church. I decided to go with him and I attended Catholic Mass for about two years. Although, I decided not to get baptized into the Catholic church I was there long enough to make friends and understand a lot of the things I had been told about them was flat out wrong or was a misinterpretation of the facts. So it really helps to get to know people and to find out what they actually believe on a personal basis rather than go by roomer and speculation.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=173110#p173110 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin hi.i know, what can i do to know what doing in the churches, so that ill not bring a fulce facts:i dont want that my mother and father will see that i watching on youtube a services and liturgies, so who here from the fourum going to the church, can upload an audio recording of the service or the liturgie.a catholic can upload a catholic audio liturgie, a lutheran can upload an audio of a lutheran service, an anglican can upload an audio of an anglican service and etc.but this is only for that i would know what doing in the other churches.and i uploading a messianic services archive.more of the services are in russian, and there are some services which speaking in english with a translation to russian.so here is the link:https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10775118/msjss.rarkamochek.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=173148#p173148 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Camochek, you dont seem to have understood what Tom and I said. It is not about going to catholic, lutheran, jewish or whatever worship so much as it is understanding what people of those faiths beliefs and why they do what they do and think what they think. This is why the interfaith trip I mentioned was good, not just because we got to visit a sinagog, hindu temple etc, but because the various people who practiced the different religions explained them, their symboles, rituals and beliefs in detail. Just hearing a service wont do it. Imagine someone hearing a standard protistant service, well theyd hear lots of words about peace be with you, about christ asking people to take and eat his body, about people reciting that they believe in a ghost etc. Without any context or understanding it would all seem pretty loopy, and that is assuming that you actually understood the words of a service in the first place.If y ou want to understand more about what catholics believe and what catholic practices are, well go and talk to a catholic! In britain there is an organization called the counsel for christians and jews, who I know for a fact have branches in America and in Israil, as well as many other countries. Their focus is to allow people of various different christian and jewish denominations, progressive orthodox and messianic jews, as well as most sorts of catholics and protestant christians to come together and discuss various beliefs and practices and differences of opinion in an open minded way. Id suggest looking around for something similar where you are, and being prepared to listen to others opinions and considder them reasonably, and that yway you will learn more about others, about belief and about yourself.URL: http:/ /forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=173158#p173158 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin hi dark.if i would do that, i need that my father will not see and will not know about that, so what i can do for that?kamochek.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=173159#p173159 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin hi.i have a question about the lutherans:the lutherans had a belltower from the reformation, or they came to their churches after that?i asking because the history book which we learning in the school, speaking about the period from the 5th century to the 16th century.in the final chapter of the book, they puted a table where they are wrote the diferences between the protestants and the catholics.about the protestants they are told that they builded churches without belltowers, without pictures inside and etc.so, the lutherans also at the begining had a churches without a belltowers, or in the book they talked about other confesions?kamochek.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=173161#p173161 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin I dont actually know how and when Muslems or Jewish, for example, are actually praying in their main language.Anyway I am pretty well content that the Christianity is something international. In many other religions, you have one single language in which you are praying. You may have to learn the language so it is easier to speak and pronounce, and you of course need to understand what you are actually saying.In most parts of the Christianity, at least in the Lutheran Protestant part, everything is translated in every language.The pope of course must have to speak Latin though, however I do not actually know whether the Catholics pray in Latin.As far as I know, actually not. I was sitting in the living-room with my grandparents and we stumbled upon a channel, where catholics were sitting in a church praying in our language, not in Latin.No one can actually say how Latin is pronounced right. Some people think it sounds more like Italian, I am re ferring to the Latin version of The inquisitor, at our school, we speak every letter.You might try reading a Latin sentence with the Latin ESpeak voice, found in NVDA.I may also upload a cut out of a German audio play (Faith, the Van Helsing chronicles) with some Latin phrases, if you want me to. The audio play series sounds pretty English, but its in German and the cut would only be 30 seconds long, most of it, however, will be Latin, I prommis. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=173035#p173035 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin hi paddy.yeh, upload these audio play thaith.about beeing translated in the lutheran to all the languages: you are wright.ive hared a lutheran service in russian, and in tel aviv in israel there is a church where the sermon is in hebrew.it is a lutheran church, but the service is in hebrew.kamochek.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=173051#p173051 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin hi paddy.are the lutherans having pictures and statues in their churchers?and are they praying to these statues and pictures like the catholics?kamochek.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=173065#p173065 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Kamochek, as for paganism it is still around. Its nowhere as near as popular as the monotheistic religions like Christianity, Judaism, and Islam , but it still exists. In fact I know a couple of people who worship earth gods and are pagans. The official term is neopagan which just means new pagan.There are many different forms of paganism today like Wicca. When I was in college the girl who lived across from me in my dorm was a Wiccan, and she gave me a first-hand look at her religion,her beliefs, and what modern witches etc believe. It is interesting stuff for anyone curious what other people believe.As far as being baptized by the Holy Spirit perhaps I shouldnt advise on this topic, but as I recall the apostles like Paul considered speaking in tongues to be the least of the gifts of the Holy Spirit. Moreover speaking in tongues should not be used as a measuring stick to identify if someone has been baptized or not. According to scripture there are many other gifts that are also proofs of the spirit so I dont think it is a case of not being baptized if someone lacks one specific gift.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172876#p172876 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin hi.yeh, i know that you assault-freak cant tell what you said when you spoke in tongues, because nobody who do that doesnt knows what he saying.sometimes its funny when you are hearing someone speaking in tongues, isnt it?for example: i was sick 2 years ago, and my grandma was with me in that day.she prayed, and started to speak in tongues, and i laughed and thought: what hapening to my grandma?i thought that because at this time ive never hared of speaking in tongues.she told me the first time about that only when she finished her praying when i was sick.i think if i knew about that at this time, i didnt laugh.now i hearing a recordings where praying, or singing in tongues, and not laughing.kamochek.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172881#p172881 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Tom, definitely agreed on that point. Speaking in tongues is definitely one of the overrated signs for someone who has been baptized in the holy spirit. But the reason its probably one of the most looked for signs is because its probably the most obvious one, though there are definitely other, sometimes more significant, ones.Dark, you make a very good point about people deviating from their beliefs. I also have a Catholic friend whos like the one you described, in that he was born and raised Catholic but seems open to just about any creed as long as it stays true to Biblical teaching. Some friends and I call him the bad Catholic because he doesnt go to confession, pray the rosary or do any of the more traditional things associated with Catholics. And Id definitely agree that the case of baptism in the holy spirit only being for those who burn and condemn everything other than Christianity doesnt apply to everyone. Though yes, I have foun d as well that this seems to be the case with many people. Though not everyone who I know who opposes those things does so in a way that is that aggressive.. most people I know just let their opinions known quietly and just step back from doing anything they dont agree with.Kamochek... I wouldnt describe it as funny, but it can definitely be odd. And I just want to echo Darks point... even as a Christian, I think you may want to reevaluate the way you ask questions about what people believe. Im a pentecostal, but there are many things about the catholic church that I find beautiful, and there are other christians whose faith may not be of one particular denomination, but fully devoted followers of Christ who just follow the Bible and live their lives as well as they can and serve in the church god provides them.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172896#p172896 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Kamochek, a note about speaking in tongues. You seem to be under some misconceptions about what the bible refers to as speaking in tongues. According to the scriptures speaking tongues is understood by everyone who hears it and can be understood by everyone in their own language at the same time. It is not confusing or anything that can be faked.To give you an example look at Acts chapter 2. In that chapter Peter is speaking in tongues before an audience of several thousand and it says that the people marveled because everyone there heard Peters message in his or her own language. A person who spoke Greek heard it in Greek, a person who spoke Aramaic heard it in Aramaic, a person who spoke Latin heard it in Latin, and so on all at the same time. That is obviously something a person cant possibly fake, and is not a bunch of confusing gibberish. It is understood by all, and is what the bible means by speaking in tongues.Unfortunately, when I was young er, was still attending church, I use to be around some Christians who claimed to speak in tongues and all that came out of their mouths was a bunch of meaningless words. Thats not biblical speaking in tongues, and I personally feel is just made up by people who are trying to show off. When a person thinks about it rationally why would God give someone a gift of tongues and then make it confusing so no one can or would understand the message? Thats not only dumb, but what would be the point of speaking in a language nobody can understand?Dark, that is very interesting. Although, I cant say I am too surprised. From a religious point of view the UK doesnt seem to be as heavily influenced by religious monotheists as here in the US. Consequently there is a little more room for Wiccans to thrive and be left alone where in the US there are a few Christian sects that are down right hostile to anyone and everyone who doesnt follow their religious d ictates to the letter. Odd really considering the Constitution grants religious freedom, but certain Christian groups try to use their influence to deprive others of that right.Regarding pigeonholing people I agree with you 100%. Far too many people here that people are this or that denomination and right away begin making all kinds of assumptions about that persons beliefs rather than asking him/her what they personally believe. I have learned that it is never that simple, and despite affiliating with one religion or another most people dont agree with everything their church says on a given topic. So making assumptions about someones beliefs can be and often is a mistake. That is one reason I often refer to myself as a non-theist rather than say an atheist because these days the term atheist is a loaded label with far too many false assumptions attached to it.URL: http://forum.au diogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172898#p172898 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin @Tom as we have discussed before I do think the Uk is a bit more tolerant religiously sinse the main Church of England has a more moderate position and though there certainly are! overly zealous christians they tend to be more a minority and dont tend to have any political clout. Indeed though in Britain religious leaders such as the archbishop of canterberry will share their thoughts on the news politics is generally kept fairly excluded from religion and if say a person was refused a job on religious grounds they could quite legitimately sue the employer for discrimination.On the wicken front, also remember that a lot of people actually see it as a way of getting in touch with British history and culture. For example some of the morris dances we did are descended from older wicken fatility rights that still kept on in various smaller corners of the country as generally old traditions.That being said, outside the major political or media sphere you can occasionally meet some very vocal christian minorities. Unfortunately sinse a lot of the business of speaking in tongues and going into a frenzy isnt part of what the more moderate and more mainstream christian churches such as the church of england or the methodists usually do, which is why I say Ive not particularly met reasonable people who do such and tend to associate that sort of prayer and worship with intolerance, although as I said I do suspect this is more due to the church organization in the Uk than anything else. Regarding bad Catholics Assault freak, well the chap I mentioned is actually a doctor of theology, and has taught catholic litergy for a very long time, so I would not particularly question where he is in religious terms sinse he is very much someone who has heavily examined his beliefs, has prayed and meditated and considdered things very carefully. Indeed he is one of the few people Ive met (not all of them christians), Id actively describe as having a distinct sense of something holy about him.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172903#p172903 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin hi.yeh, maybe you are wright.i for example can be baptised in a catholic church, and show myself like i doing all their things, but ill not really would to these things, but only will cheat the preests.for example: i can became a monk, and not really do all these things which they doing, and not really believe in the saints, but cheat and show myself like i doing that.then, from monk, they could make me preest, from preest a bishop, from bishop archebishop and at the end the pope, and there i could tell what i told before about beeing pope.im not going to do all these things, and not going to be baptised in a catholic church, but i gave an example what catholics can do, or how could i be the pope.kamochek.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172907#p172907 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Kamochek, I see your point, but pretending to be one religion when you dont really believe the tenants of that religion would be dishonest. Not just to all the people you associate with but would be dishonest to yourself, and I think if You ever did something like that you would be very unhappy in that sort of situation. Not to mention I think someone would notice you arent really Catholic long before you became Pope.To give you an example when my ex wife and I got married I went to church with her by and large to avoid an argument over religious beliefs. I was already becoming something of a skeptic, had my doubts about Christianity, so felt extremely uncomfortable sitting in a church with several people who totally believed in what the bible and their minister told them. Meanwhile I would sit there through the sermons thinking I dont agree with this or that, I constantly questioned doctrinal points of view, and was unable to really voice my thoughts and feelings with fellow church members because they basically agreed with everyone else to a greater or lesser degree. What made it even more difficult is I knew I didnt have any right to come into their church and begin arguing with them over their beliefs. I knew if I did that they would just tell me to leave which I eventually did on my own before it got to that point.The point I am getting at is that I was in exactly that sort of situation you describe where I was doing things like everyone else in the church, but secretly I didnt believe most of it. In the end I decided I had to be true to myself, vocalize how I really felt about it, and told everyone I was leaving over a disagreement with various doctrinal issues. Some people understood, some didnt, but I feel leaving was the right choice.I am pretty sure if you got baptized in the Catholic church, became a monk, and rose through the ranks of the priesthood somewhere along the way you would end up having to be true to yourself and would vocalize to someone how you really felt. You would have to make a choice to go ahead and pretend to be something you were not, or get out. So I am glad to hear you wouldnt really do anything like that, because I can say first-hand it is no fun. It is a very unpleasant experience..URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172916#p172916 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin I had a similar experience to that Tom at university. I went to what I believed to be a christian meditation group, only to find that the person leading the group began with talking about countering satans influence in the world, and asked everyone to prey to avoid evil influences, such as homosexuals, those none christians etc.I considdered voicing my beliefs but in the end made an excuse and left pretty quickly sinse I just felt I could not be in a room with people who claimed to be preying to and contemplating God and yet were expressing such a huge amount of hatred.This was actually a shock for me, considdering that not long previously to that I had actually been on an interfaith pilgrimage which involved going to a variety of different places of worship including Hindu and siekh temples, a sinagog, a unitarian chapple and catholic and church of england churches (we shouldve gone to a mosque but had the wrong day), so it was something of a shock after experiencing the general openness of religious belief to be hit with the opposite. I had encountered several people with beliefs previously I didnt agree with, but that was the first time I actively felt uncomfortable in a place of worship due to profound intollerance. I suspect if I were in the states I probably would abstain from church as well for precisely this reason.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172927#p172927 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin hi assault-freak.i want not only to see the glory of the god in the world, and come to heaven, but here on earth i want to share the gospel with people, specificaly with jews which arent knowing and arent exepting jesus and this fact that he is the real messiah.there were expected that will come a messiah which will bring a pees to the world and release there from the romans, but jesus saying in mathew chapter 10: dont think i came to bring pees.not pees, but sword...i want to begin sharing the gospel in the school.in my previouse school one boy got the gospel, and he believing today, and when his grandpa died, he asked me to pray for him that hell go to heaven.also i sharing the gospel because jesus said that: mathew chapter 28.secondly: i waiting for the day when jesusll come.who knows, maybe hell come at least after 10 or 20 years?i listened to a serman of pentacostalist pastor, sergey shi dlovskiy from belaruss, and he said that he met an armenic christian, which told him that in their church, when they wanted baptise a baby, he said suddenly: still when ill be a child, jesus will come.so i waiting for that, when all the world wil see jesus descenting from the sky. They will see him like seeing a lightning.kamochek.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172938#p172938 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin A lot of discussion here that I cant speak on simply because I dont want to get in over my head. But the Bible is not actually black and white clear on what speaking in tongues actually is, other than that its part of being filled by the holy spirit. The day of Pentecost sees disciples in a house who were all praying aloud and suddenly starting speaking in strange languages to the point where people thought they were drunk. so speaking in tongues isnt just limitted to everyone receiving the message in their own language... also there are certain people with the gift of interpretation who can say what someone means when they speak in tongues. and though I havent seen it myself, Ive heard enough from people I trust to know that some of those occasions cant be faked, either. So what may sound like gibberish to me may be intelligible to someone else who has that particular spiritual gift.Dark, I definitely agree it can be off-putting wh en you come across people who are so ultimately. opposed to all things not themselves. The first time I met an elder in my church who was unbelievably anti-catholic I was pretty shocked, especially when I found out he used to be one. And your friend definitely sounds impressive... and I didnt mean my friend was honestly a horrible Catholic. Its more a joke and a tease at his lack of participation in Catholic traditions. He knows where his faith is, he just doesnt think the worldly traditions are as important as some people make them out to be.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172955#p172955 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin h paddy.about that you are a lutheran: ofcorce.i meen to say: ive checked your website, and there is an english and deutch selection, so it means if im not mistaken that you living in germany.i think the lutherans are most of the people in germany, because from germany the reformation has begun.more of the people i mean: in israel the main religion is the jewdaism. there are christians and muslim in israel, but most of the people are jews.so if im wright, in germany most of the people are lutherans.or maybe there are also nacists in germany, which believing in hitlers things?or today there are no nacists?kamochek.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172735#p172735 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin The language is actually called Aramaic, not aramic. But the facts are right... think of it as the semitic latin, in that it was the original language which influenced many languages including Modern Hebrew. Butt its still spoken by very isolated Jewish and certain Christian groups all over the world. Probably the most well-known representation of the language is the film The Passion of the Christ, which has reconstructed Aramaic and Latin as the primary languages.Disclaimer: Read the next part only if youre open-minded about the views that may appear biased. I dont mind discussion... but I am not trying to start a flame war here. Only to encourage civilized conversation.Paddy, you bring up some interesting ideas. Though I have to disagree about other religions being harmless... I respect other peoples beliefs and dont shove my beliefs down peoples throats, but I believe that the religions you mentioned do have golals that do in fac t go against biblical teachings. As a Christian who came to faith two years ago when I was 19, its grown apparentl to me that if you believe all of the teachings held by Christian belief... then other religions such as Buddhism can be considered idolotrous, because of the worship of statues or ancestor worship. Having said that though, each person has the right to what they believe. Just because Ive chosen to base my life on a personal relationship with god doesnt mean everyone will... and though my wish and prayer is that all the people around me come to see the Truth and light of Christ, practically I realize that that may just never happen. As to your question why you should tell people about God and pray for their conversion... again, if you hold to all the beliefs, then anyone who hasnt accepted Gods gift of salvation is separated from God and not going to a good place after death.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172743#p172743 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin @Camochek, firstly you are incorrect, budhists dont believe in many gods specifically, they belive that follwing the teachings of the buder and meditating will bring inner peace and something better in the next life. Budhism isnt so much about worshipping a god as coming to a sense of peace with yourself and the universe, so you are directly incorrect there. Ive myself talked to several budhists and read their texts and definitely believe that the forms of meditation and philosophy practiced have a great deal of value, indeed I tend to think that the way budhists atune themselves to th universe probably brings them closer to what christians think of as God.Even for those religions like Hindus, what right have you! to say that they are just preying to statues. A hindu could see you in front of a cross and say your praying to two bits of wood stuck together. You also seem unaware that in hinduism, it is often said that all the different Gods are aspects of one supreme being, but each emphasises a different aspect or is a different perspective, rather like the story of the six blind men and the elephant, indeed I once heard a hindu chap ask why it was wrong to believe in many aspects of God when christianity already had three of them.Id not be so quick to judge other beliefs until you know a little more about them and! until you have questioned your own. Likewise while I agree that jew was wrong to burn the new testiment that doesnt make it right for you to start burning religious books either. Remember what one of the jews said when the Nazis started burning coppies of the talmud, those who begin by burning books end by burning people. @Paddy Italian would be harder to learn half way through, but if you start next year youll certainly find that your latin studdies will be of help to you.URL: http://forum.audio games.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172754#p172754 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Kamochek, Im not a Buddhist myself, but I have studied Buddhism in college and one thing I can say is that your perception of them is not correct. As Dark outlined in a post above Buddhists follow the teaching of Buddha and try to come to a sense of peace with themselves and the universe around them through meditation and by avoiding personal attachment to people, places, and things. Its an altogether different belief system than Christianity and should not be judged without knowing more about it.Likewise regarding your ideas of being the Pope I think you need to realize there are boundaries of what you should or should not do when dealing with others beliefs. Regardless of if your religious beliefs are right or wrong what right would you have to take over the Catholic church and get rid of their belief in intercessory prayer or to discard statues, paintings, and other religious art which decorate many Catholic churches and cathedrals?The point I want to make h ere is its not an issue of being right or wrong, but an issue of respect. It is the greatest form of disrespect to walk into someone elses church and order someone to change their beliefs based on some self-righteous claim that your beliefs are better than theirs. Even if your beliefs end up being more valid or can be proven to be true that does not grant you a right to force those beliefs onto another human being. If anything history has proven that forced conversion does not work, and only causes more problems than it solves.I dont know how much history you have studied, particularly European history, but during the Protestant Reformation the Catholic church tried to stomp out Protestantism by torturing Protestants, burning bibles, and in extreme cases burning Protestants alive for heresy. As we can now see all of those efforts failed, and a lot of people suffered unnecessarily. I dont think you are advocating anything that extreme, but you cant just tell people what to believe or how to live and expect them to not resist your attempt to change their beliefs.I also think burning the Talmud or any other religious text is a great sign of disrespect. Not only to its religious followers but it is also a loss of knowledge. A wise person studies things, tries to understand others points of view, and weather they agree with them or not they will use that knowledge to improve themselves or to argue more effectively as to why that other person is wrong about something. Burning someones religious books does nothing to understand the points of views expressed in it, and arrogantly assumes that your beliefs are absolutely right. It is a very immature and uneducated way of looking at others beliefs, and what good would it really do to destroy someone elses religious texts anyway?For example, I assume you have a bible. It might be braille, on audio tape, on CD, an electronic format like txt. Now,assume I come to you r house and destroy it. Would that really do me any good, and would it actually change your beliefs?Of course, it wouldnt. All it would do is destroy your copy of the book and prevent you easy access to it. Further more my intentional destruction of your religious books would make you angry at me and cause you a legitimate reason to dislike me. So any objective I may have had of converting you to my point of view would have been a failure. So dont burn the Talmud or any other religious book because that just is the wrong way to go about dealing with others of a different religious upbringing than you.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172769#p172769 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin hi.ok, about the budhism im understood.but a question: there are still religions which believing like the greeks and romans: for example: god of rain, god of love, godess of the death and etc.a question is: in ouer days there are people which believing in these things?about my history studies: the history lesens in israeli schools starting only from grade 6.in grade 6 the subject of the book was: ainchant greece, kingdom of jewda, jerusalem and the romans.in the jerusalem subject, which was the final subject in the book, telling about jesus and the urly christianity.in grade 7 and grade 8, learning history begining from the 5th century and ending with the 16th century.learning at first how the barbarians came to a christianity, about carl the grate, the birth of the islam, about the jews in europe, about how the cities were built, about the crusades, about the catholic buildings and art, about the rekonkista and the life of the jews in spane in the 15 century, about the black pluage, about colombus and the explorers of the 16 century, about the printing revalusion in the 15 century, about the renesance and finaly about the reformation.sorry if something you cant understand, because all these things i not realy know how there names in english.and about the latin: maybe there are audio lesens, so that i can listen of the correct pranonsiation of the latin?kamochek.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172775#p172775 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin I dont know any audio latin but you will probably find stuff if you look around. As regards whether people actually believe in many gods today, some people might, but in terms of major religions Ive not heard of many. Hidnuism as I said as far as I understand it is the idea of God in different aspects, similarly with celtic or wicken beliefs. of course you always get minority religions who believe some very odd things, I for example once met a chap who belonged to a modern day temple worshipping the god Mithras, a God who many of the roman army believed in although Mithras wasnt derived from the roman or griek gods like Zeus, Aphrodite etc and I believe came from somewhere in persia. Certainly in terms of major religions though i cant think of any with multiple gods, though I admit I dont know as much about say siekhism or certain eastern beliefs like Shintoism or confusionism.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172782#p172782 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Shintoism isnt considered as much a religion as a way of life. At least, not by the Japanese folks Ive chatted with who follow it. As to Buddhism though... there are some sects of Buddhism which believe in Gods, or at least higher beings called Bodhisadfa, who are enlightened people who have crossed over to the other side who remain there to, in a fashion, interceed for and watch over the people on earth. And Hinduism, though the Gods represent different aspects of one overall being, most hindus Ive talked to still consider the religion to be a polytheistic one. But I dont know as much about Hinduism as I do about Buddhism, since I grew up with a primarily buddhist family. I do find some of the things they teach valuable, morally speaking... but there are more fundamental practices are ones I dont hold any stock to simply because they go against the Bible, and while they may be beautiful practices, because of my own experiences with God, I couldn ;t commit to them as a way of life. But I do believe buddhism is a fascinating religion and love reading about it.In the end though, I agree with Dark and Tward... theres no room for twisting someones arm until it breaks when it comes to religious matters. I believe in sharing the Gospel with as many people as I can, but not in any way thats awkward or tramples on their own beliefs... whether they accept it or not is up to them. But we have no right to go around talking about burning other religious texts. And I appologize if any of my last post trod on anyones toes.. that wasnt my intention.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172808#p172808 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin hi assault-freak.which christian you are?i mean: which confesion of christianity you are?if you are a protestant, which protestant you are inside the protestantism?kamochek.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172809#p172809 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Im pentecostal.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172813#p172813 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin hi assault-freak.oh! i think its grate!so please if you want: pray for my father that hell let me to go to the messianic congregation (they are doing almost the same things like the pentacostalist, but jewish things are added like the urly christianity).please pray for my father that hell let me to go to there, because he is a traditional jew and he doesnt let to me and my mother to go to there, and also he taking the wyfy if seeing me visiting pentacostalists website.and also please pray for that the god will make me sighted, will give me a tees and solv my other problems in the body.do you believ that the god can do that?and i have a question: 2 days ago, i listened to a pentacostalist, and he told that the baptism by the holy spearit cant be without speaking in a strange language.im never spoke that, so it means that i still didnt baptised by the holy spearit?and please pray also for that.kamochek.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172816#p172816 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin I will pray for you, sure... but without turning this into a sermon, let me just say that you have to ask yourself why you want those things. Is it to make yourself feel happier, or to glorify God and his kingdom?And the baptism of the holy spirit is something that we can all experience. but only if you are in a personal relationship with God... you have to ask yourself whether you have that relationship, or whether you just believe in God because your family and culture says you should.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172834#p172834 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin hi assault-freak.i want all these things to gloryfy god and his kingdom.about the baptism by the holy spearet: i wanting that because i think it will be good to have a sspiritual presents like talking in other languages, or understand what the others saying, or (i dont know how to say this in english) tell what is going to be.all this not because my family telling me to believe, but because i want to gloryfy god and his kingdom and at the end will get to the kingdom of heaven, the new jerusalem (revelation chapter 21 and 22), and not go to hell.the pastor in the congregation where my grandma is going, who talking to me on the phone, said that a strong belief like my, he never seen.i think he is wright, because my mother stopped praying because of my father, and stopped believ like me.i can know that because one day, i was with my grandma and my mother.im waiting for a day, that the god will give me a new eyes, new t ees, new skin so that hell get his glory inside me.one of the problems in my boddy: i having a rubber thing in my stomach, which i ate from it when i was a baby, and now i releasing gasses from that.so, i telling to my grandma: a day will come, and this rubber thing will disapear by the lord.she said: amen. because she is believing.but my mother said: ha ha! so funny! think what you saying, how this thing will disapear in a magic way?it was in the final summer.but before 2004, she went to the congregation and believed like my grandma.she also saying: they are praying for you 15 years, and nothing hapening.but i know that the god doing thing in its time, and he never late.and a question to you: have you baptised by the holy spirit?if yes, how it was?kamochek.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/view topic.php?pid=172852#p172852 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Well, you know why you want these things... whether its because you want to go to heaven or because you want to see Gods glory in the world and testify to others. Either way, I think this topic should be kept on topic. I will say though that yes, I have been baptized in the holy spirit. And I cant quite explain the feeling. the best way I can explain it was like a warmth all over my body, along with an overwhelming sense of grace, love and something that made me drop onto my knees without me willing my body to do so.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172858#p172858 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin hi assault-freak.and did you speak in a strange language?kamochek.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172861#p172861 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin When you are in that state... you simply do what the holy spirit tells you and speak as it leads. I dont even remember the prayers or other things I said... though yes, I do remember praying in tongues without planning to... but I wouldnt be able to tell you what I said.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172864#p172864 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin @paddy, with Italian Im actually trying to learn to converse in it so knowing how to say order stuff in a restaurant is actually helpful, though i agree if I was bothering to learn written translation Id probably want something more interesting to do. I have learnt about roman history previously, indeed Ive visited several roman sites in Britain myself such as Hadrians wall and a reconstructed Roman military fort, so I do appreciate that end of things albeit I never learnt the stuff in Latin. @Camochek, I realize the issue, Aramaeic I have heard of, as the language which jesus probably wouldve spoken and which a lot of the early christian writings were written in, it was just the pronunciation by supernova of what you wrote that was confusing. As regards the Pope, well thats really a different discussion and not related to Latin at all, but one thing I will say is you seem a bit quick to call other traditions of christianity incorr ect. I do not know the reasons for a lot of catholic traditions, but Id prefer to find out a little more about them myself before making up my mind.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172646#p172646 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin About the pope thing, even if its off-topic:As a protestant christian myself, I disagree to a few things the pope is doing, like forbidding gay-marriage, which is definitely discrimination for gay people. I dont want to discriminate anybody, being gay is definitely nothing to be ashamed of!Anyway, as a pope, you cannot just go and remove christian pictures and other signs. Its rediculous, lets go and tell the muslems to live like the Christians or the Jewish either.The thing is: I respect the Jewish, the Muslems, the Buddhists and any other religions, as long as they are harmless and dont follow any goals terrifying anybody. So, why should I destroy parts of their religion and any of their sacrifies? This doesnt make sense in any way. Also, you cannot become pope of the christian church if you are Jewish.@DarkI was thinking about learning Italian some day. We have a volunteer Italian group at school, but I don ;t think joining in the middle of the year would lead to success, since they are already a little further experienced, so I might try joining it in my next grade and learn from the beginning with all the other beginners.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172647#p172647 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin About the pope thing, even if its off-topic:As a protestant christian myself, I disagree to a few things the pope is doing, like forbidding gay-marriage, which is definitely discrimination for gay people. I dont want to discriminate anybody, being gay is definitely nothing to be ashamed of!Anyway, as a pope, you cannot just go and remove christian pictures and other signs. Its rediculous, lets go and tell the muslems to live like the Christians or the Jewish either.The thing is: I respect the Jewish, the Muslems, the Buddhists and any other religions, as long as they are harmless and dont follow any goals terrifying anybody. So, why should I go and destroy parts of their religion and any of their sacrifies? This doesnt make sense in any way.@DarkI was thinking about learning Italian some day. We have a volunteer Italian group at school, but I dont think joining in the middle of the year would lead to success, since they are already a little further experienced, so I might try joining it in my next grade and learn from the beginning with all the other beginners.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172647#p172647 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin hi paddy.maybe the religions which you told are harmless, but i dont think for example that the budists will go to heaven, because they believing in many gods, and making thiers statues and praying to these statues, thinking that theyll help them.the orthodox jews in israel not liking the messianic jews, which are the followers of the urly christianity.i saw on the internet a messianic person just passed near the orthodox jews, and they all started to shout: go away! go! go from us! and etc.another example: one orthodox jew was a messianic jew for 7 years.then he went to a raby, and talked to him and told that he needs a help in his believing.the raby read to him a peases from the bible, the old testament only,and then seeing in the end of the video that the man took the new testament and burned it.in the talmud, writing about jesus that he wasnt a jew, he didnt love his father, and all the things which he did such as heeling sicks and etc he learned a magic in eygept and another things like that.i so hate that, and i thinking when ill grow up, ill burn the talmud books.and paddy, a question for you: which protestant you are?there are lutherans, anglicans, baptists, pentacostalists and etc.so which protestant are you, paddy?kamochek.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172653#p172653 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin So what? They are all believing in their own way, so why should I try to stop them believing in different gods so they all believe in only one god?About the type of protestant, we believe in Martin Luther, who founded the protestant Christianity because he disagreed about the catholics, which is understandable. So I think I am a Lutheran, that would make sense to me.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172693#p172693 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
[Audiogames-reflector] latin
latin hi.i want to know speak latin.i have an idea: when ill grow up, maybe i will upgrade the latin to speakeble every day language.what do you think?so, i want to speak latin.someone can help?kamochek.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172504#p172504 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin One question, Why?Unless you want to be a classical scholar and read virgil and plutarch in their original languages or study the history and litergy of the catholic church, Im not sure why you would want to speak latin. As for help, well its not really something you can just learn like that, Id recommend finding a classics course if your interested and doing the thing properly, though be certain you know what your getting into. Regarding latin as a spoken language, well Latin was! a spoken language for several hundred years (by the romans if nothing else), and its possible to learn, although nobody actually speaks it as an everyday language anymore and its only really used for historical purposes sinse it became the language of scholarship for so many years. Occasionally modern books are still translated into Latin, I even heard there is a Latin translation of Harry potter, but these are usually mor e a novelty than anything else sinse its not as if anyone actually speaks latin as a first language anymore. So, if you want to learn latin, Id recommend doing the thing properly, but be certain you know why and what your getting into first.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172518#p172518 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Salve,The thing is, you cannot just learn Latin in a few weeks or months. I, for example, am learning Latin in school, and its definitely not that easy as expected. You can, of course, do it if you learn vocabulary and loads of grammar, for example the Ablativus Absolutus, the Particip Perfect Passiv, Particip Praesens Activ as well as loads of word-endings, combined with the futur grammar, the past, et cetera.Ill give you an example:Maybe you know the movie Life of Brian, my currently favourite one, even if it is from the late 70s.Ire is the latin verb form for to go.In the movie, the main character, Brian, was writing Romanes eunt domus onto a wall. He actually wanted to say Romans go home, but written like that, it would mean Humans called Romanes go the house.So, the officer forced him to decline the word ;ire: to go. This would be like the following.You first need to know the six word endings for plural and singular persons:o: Is: yout: he/she/itmus: wetis: you (plural form, for multiple persons)nt: theyWell, now you should be able to decline ire:eo: I goIs: you goIt: he/she/it goesImus: we goitis: you (more than one person) goEunt: they goThe singular for Roman is Romanus. The plural form is Romani.Lets head back to ire.We now know how to decline it, but in this case, ire is an order!The singular in this case for go! is I! So, whats the plural? Ite!Domus just means house/home. Since you want the romans to go to their house/home, you have to form the following sentence:Romani ite ad domum!You see, its a lot more difficult than English or other, still existing lanuages. Hmm, maybe Chinese is still one of the most difficult languages, Latin is definitely a lot of easier! NOTE: Not every sentence can be verbally translated. You sometimes need to reform the translated sentences so it will actually make sence to you and the others.Example: Ad Forum ascendo.Rough translated, just read and written from left to right, it would mean To the market I go up. In this case, you have to reform the sentence, so it means I go up to the market.If you think youre up to it, you may try translating my signature.Hints:Dare: to givefacere: to make / to do somethingIf my Latin magister reads this, please do not blame me if I made any mistakes. This is just an example, which should not be used as a tutorial (Tutorium) for beginners.Vos saluto maxime,Scholar Patricus.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172523#p172523 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Salve,What a coincidence that I stumbled upon this! The thing is, you cannot just learn Latin in a few weeks or months. I, for example, am learning Latin in school, and its definitely not that easy as expected. You can, of course, do it if you learn vocabulary and loads of grammar, for example the Ablativus Absolutus, the Particip Perfect Passiv, Particip Praesens Activ as well as loads of word-endings, combined with the futur grammar, the past, et cetera.Ill give you an example:Maybe you know the movie Life of Brian, my currently favourite one, even if it is from the late 70s.Ire is the latin verb form for to go.In the movie, the main character, Brian, was writing Romanes eunt domus onto a wall. He actually wanted to say Romans go home, but written like that, it would mean Humans called Romanes go the house.So, the officer forced him to decline the word ire: to go. This would be like the following.You first need to know the six word endings for plural and singular persons:o: Is: yout: he/she/itmus: wetis: you (plural form, for multiple persons)nt: theyWell, now you should be able to decline ire:eo: I goIs: you goIt: he/she/it goesImus: we goitis: you (more than one person) goEunt: they goThe singular for Roman is Romanus. The plural form is Romani.Lets head back to ire.We now know how to decline it, but in this case, ire is an order!The singular in this case for go! is I! So, whats the plural? Ite!Domus just means house/home uot;. Since you want the romans to go to their house/home, you have to form the following sentence:Romani ite ad domum!You see, its a lot more difficult than English or other, still existing lanuages. Hmm, maybe Chinese is still one of the most difficult languages, Latin is definitely a lot of easier! NOTE: Not every sentence can be verbally translated. You sometimes need to reform the translated sentences so it will actually make sence to you and the others.Example: Ad Forum ascendo.Rough translated, just read and written from left to right, it would mean To the market I go up. In this case, you have to reform the sentence, so it means I go up to the market.If you think youre up to it, you may try translating my signature.Hints:Dare: to givefacere: to make / to do somethingIf my La tin magister reads this, please do not blame me if I made any mistakes. This is just an example, which should not be used as a tutorial (Tutorium) for beginners.Vos saluto maxime,Scholar Patricus.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172523#p172523 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Salve,What a coincidence that I stumbled upon this! The thing is, you cannot just learn Latin in a few weeks or months. I, for example, am learning Latin in school, and its definitely not that easy as expected. You can, of course, do it if you learn vocabulary and loads of grammar, for example the Ablativus Absolutus, the Particip Perfect Passiv, Particip Praesens Activ as well as loads of word-endings, combined with the futur grammar, the past, et cetera.Ill give you an example:Maybe you know the film Life of Brian, my currently favourite one, even if it is from the late 70s! Ire is the latin verb form for to go.In the movie, the main character, Brian, was writ ing Romanes eunt domus onto a wall. He actually wanted to say Romans go home, but written like that, it would mean Humans called Romanes go the house.So, the officer forced him to decline the word ire: to go. This would be like the following.You first need to know the six word endings for plural and singular persons:Singularo: Is: yout: he/she/itPluralmus: wetis: yount: theyWell, now you should be able to decline ire:Singulareo: I goIs: you goIt: he/she/it goesPluralImus: we goitis: you goEunt: they goThe singular for Roman is Romanus. The plural form is Romani.Lets head back to ire.We now know how to decline it, but in this case, ire is an order!The singular in this case for go! is I! ; So, whats the plural? Ite!Domus just means house/home. Since you want the romans to go to their house/home, you have to form the following sentence:Romani ite ad domum!You see, its a lot more difficult than English or other, still existing lanuages. Hmm, maybe Chinese is still one of the most difficult languages, Latin is definitely a lot of easier! NOTE: Not every sentence can be verbally translated. You sometimes need to reform the translated sentences so it will actually make sence to you and the others.Example: Ad Forum ascendo.Rough translated, just read and written from left to right, it would mean To the market I go up. In this case, you have to reform the sentence, so it means I go up to the market.If you think youre up to it, you may try translatin g my signature.Hints:Dare: to givefacere: to make / to do somethingIf my Latin magister reads this, please do not blame me if I made any mistakes. This is just an example, which should not be used as a tutorial (Tutorium) for beginners.About Monty Pythons Life of Brian, you may check blind mice mega mall, they have the audiodescribed version of it, you have to search for Monty Python.Vos saluto maxime,Scholar Patricus.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172523#p172523 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Salve,What a coincidence that I stumbled upon this! The thing is, you cannot just learn Latin in a few weeks or months. I, for example, am learning Latin in school, and its definitely not that easy as expected. You can, of course, do it if you learn vocabulary and loads of grammar, for example the Ablativus Absolutus, the Particip Perfect Passiv, Particip Praesens Activ as well as loads of word-endings, combined with the futur grammar, the past, et cetera.Ill give you an example:Maybe you know the film Life of Brian, my currently favourite one, even if it is from the late 70s! Ire is the latin verb form for to go.In the movie, the main character, Brian, was writ ing Romanes eunt domus onto a wall. He actually wanted to say Romans go home, but written like that, it would mean Humans called Romanes go the house.So, the officer forced him to decline the word ire: to go. This would be like the following.You first need to know the six word endings for plural and singular persons:Singularo: Is: yout: he/she/itPluralmus: wetis: yount: theyWell, now you should be able to decline ire:Singulareo: I goIs: you goIt: he/she/it goesPluralImus: we goitis: you goEunt: they goThe singular for Roman is Romanus. The plural form is Romani.Lets head back to ire.We now know how to decline it, but in this case, ire is an order!The singular in this case for go! is I! ; So, whats the plural? Ite!Domus just means house/home. Since you want the romans to go to their house/home, you have to form the following sentence:Romani ite ad domum!You see, its a lot more difficult than English or other, still existing languages. Hmm, maybe Chinese is still one of the most difficult languages, Latin is definitely a lot of easier! NOTE: Not every sentence can be verbally translated. You sometimes need to reform the translated sentences so it will actually make sence to you and the others.Example: Ad Forum ascendo.Rough translated, just read and verbally translated from left to right, it would mean To the market I go up. In this case, you have to reform the sentence, so it means I go up to the market.If you think youre up to it, you may t ry translating my signature.Hints:Dare: to givefacere: to make / to do somethingIf my Latin magister reads this, please do not blame me if I made any mistakes. This is just an example, which should not be used as a tutorial (Tutorium) for beginners.About Monty Pythons Life of Brian, you may check blind mice mega mall, they have the audiodescribed version of it, you have to search for Monty Python.Vos saluto maxime,Scholar Patricus.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172523#p172523 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Salve,What a coincidence that I stumbled upon this! The thing is, you cannot just learn Latin in a few weeks or months. I, for example, am learning Latin in school, and its definitely not that easy as expected. You can, of course, do it if you learn vocabulary and loads of grammar, for example the Ablativus Absolutus, the Particip Perfect Passiv, Particip Praesens Activ as well as loads of word-endings, combined with the futur grammar, the past, et cetera.Ill give you an example:Maybe you know the film Life of Brian, my currently favourite one, even if it is from the late 70s! Ire is the latin verb form for to go.In the movie, the main character, Brian, was writ ing Romanes eunt domus onto a wall. He actually wanted to say Romans go home, but written like that, it would mean Humans called Romanes go the house.So, the officer forced him to decline the word ire: to go. This would be like the following.You first need to know the six word endings for plural and singular persons:Singularo: Is: yout: he/she/itPluralmus: wetis: yount: theyWell, now you should be able to decline ire:Singulareo: I goIs: you goIt: he/she/it goesPluralImus: we goitis: you goEunt: they goThe singular for Roman is Romanus. The plural form is Romani.Lets head back to ire.We now know how to decline it, but in this case, ire is an order!The singular in this case for go! is I! ; So, whats the plural? Ite!Domus just means house/home. Since you want the romans to go to their house/home, you have to form the following sentence:Romani ite ad domum!You see, its a lot more difficult than English or other, still existing languages. Hmm, maybe Chinese is still one of the most difficult languages, Latin is definitely a lot of easier! NOTE: Not every sentence can be verbally translated. You sometimes need to reform the translated sentences so it will actually make sence to you and the others.Example: Ad Forum ascendo.Rough translated, just read and verbally translated from left to right, it would mean To the market I go up. In this case, you have to reform the sentence, so it means I go up to the market.If you think youre up to it, you may t ry translating my signature.Hints:Dare: to givefacere: to make / to do somethingIf my Latin magister reads this, please do not blame me if I made any mistakes. This is just an example, which should not be used as a tutorial (Tutorium) for beginners.About Monty Pythons Life of Brian, you may check blind mice mega mall, they have the audiodescribed version of it, you have to search for Monty Python.Talking about my rude Magister *grin*, last year he was organizing a project called Latin on the web, which basically revolved around Latin today and where it is still been used. We even talked about The inquisitor and played it in Latin! It was quite amusing! Vos saluto maxime,Scholar Patricus.URL: http://forum .audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172523#p172523 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Hi Paddy. interestingly enough, while Ive never studdied latin, I did spanish at school, and am currently learning to speak Italian, in order that I can sing in it convincingly. Both languages have a very similar scheme of altering the endings of all verbs and most nowns as you describe, although Italian uses more pronowns than Spanish, and often has some quite formal ways of saying things. For example, for most Italian verbs if you are talking about events in the past you cant just say I went home you would need to say I have traveled home There is also similarly an imperative form of each verb which you would use in giving orders to people directly as well, for example when in the Simpsons episode set in Itally side show bob says Manjate for lets eat, that is actually incorrect, what he said ws you eat he shouldve said Majete (note I might have my italian spellings wrong sinse I 39;m learning it primarily to converse in).I dont actually find it that difficult, though I imagine if I hadnt been familiar with the way spanish works I wouldnt have found Italian as easy. All I need now is a decent English/Italian dictionary, preferably on the Iphone that can give me the odd words and bits of vocabulary I might need, sinse my teacher has gone through a lot of the gramma with me.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172534#p172534 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin hi.i want not only the latin make a everyday language but the following:aramic and old russian which cold slovianskiy.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172538#p172538 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin Hi. I am also learning latin in school, and as paddy said, it is rather difficult.Since i am listening to the band Powerwolf who use latin in there lyrix i am more and more interistet in the way, latin was used in the church.I was in the same event with paddy playing the inquisitor in latin.In nomini patri et spiritus sanctus hoc damium malus esse deletam.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172550#p172550 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin hi.i also tryed to play the inquisitor in latin.some questions:now, the latin isnt used in the church?what do you think of making speakeble the aramic and the old russian languages?in the russian orthodox church they are using other russian, not the russian which you know.kamochek.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172551#p172551 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin @Camochek, about Iramic and old russion its something Ive simply not heard of, heck regular Russian is likely hard enough for an English speaker . Though as I said if there are works from the Russian orthodox church you wish to study fair enough, just the same way latin would be useful if you wanted to studdy original works from the Roman catholic church.Latin does seem to have made its way into a lot of things, from final fantasy 7, (the sephiroth one winged angel), to epic metal performances like Luka Terreli. Indeed I believe that as for so long it was used purely as a language of litergy and sacred works the sound of latin has become a signifyer for something powerful or important. One thing that particularly amuses me is when latin is used for names of related things. my favourite of these is the main characters sword in Gene wo lfes shadow of the torturer series, its name is terminus est, which according to a friend of mine literally translates as it ends here which is a good name for an executioners sword .URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172558#p172558 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin At our school, we do not only learn Latin because we were just too lazy to learn French and as a resultatem, we were left alone with Latin or something like that. In fact, while learning Latin, you also learn about special events which happened in the past, like the great Pompeji event when the Visuv killed a whole city or about Hanibal from Carthago, who was trying to defeat the Romans. You also learn something about the culture in the past, what they were eating, what slaves were good for, etc.Sometimes we watch movies (not in Latin, of course) and make trips to special places. We also gather useful information from the text, while translating it. In my opinion, it is better to translate texts which describe different events which could have happened in the past, than just translating a randomized text like Hello, whats your name? Im someone requesting to b e anonymus. When did you get the bus? At 6pm, but it arrived later. When did the bus actually arrive? About fiffteen minutes later, but I was too lazy waiting that long, so I took a taxi.You see, the other method is definitely more effective. URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172564#p172564 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: [Audiogames-reflector] latin
Re: latin hi dark.you didnt hared of aramic/iramic?it is a language like arabic and hebrew, but today are not speaking in this language.only a serian orthodox liturgies are in aramic, and some jewish prayings are in aramic.also some books from the old testament or the tanah, are in aramic like book of ezrah.and i dont going to learn catholic works, because im a messianic jew, and i dont want to confuze myself with all these things.but i think: if i was the pope of the whole catholic world, i told to cancel the prayings to saints and also if i was a pope i could tell to remove the pictures and the statues from the churches, and then the catholic church became like the first jewish christianity.what do you think of this idea?kamochek.URL: http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=172571#p172571 ___ Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com http://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
