Re: Adding Radegast
2020-08-14
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : mastodont via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast @22 thanks, this clariffies a lot of things. Now I understand why there are no recordings. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/561599/#p561599 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast
2020-08-14
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Exodus via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast Press X to doubt.I have plenty of SL experience here and can confirm that OP isn't telling the full story. Clothing is mostly straight forward and comes with their own default attachment points insuring that you won't end up wearing your pants on your head, but resizing, changing color or otherwise modifying said clothing will be inaccessible outside of scripts that use the llDialogue boxes (blue boxes that appear at the top/bottom right of the screen that can be tabbed through).Simple games that also use llDialogue will also be open to you in radegast, but the richer the experience the more likely it will be to use a hud that radegast will not render, or a system that radegast does not even have support for. Find and attempt to play an arcade machine in world for an example of of this.It should also be noted here that Radegast is extremely broken and should probably just be left as a text chat client.While it's obvious that OP enjoys sl and more power to him for that, he's leaving a metric ton of information out and that's creating a false expectation. People will also figure out pretty quickly that you're not on a normal viewer also as your tendency to stand dead still, blink about all over the place and suddenly snap to face objects and other avatars are a dead giveaway that you're on some kind of niche viewer. Those who know about radegast will figure it out pretty much instantly and those who don't know about radegast will draw their own conclusions. These conclusions can range from you're on your phone to you're someone's submissive slave being remotely controlled by your owner. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/561487/#p561487 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast
2020-08-14
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : ironcross32 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast Yes, that would definitely be a good thing to have. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/561392/#p561392 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast
2020-08-14
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : mastodont via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast I tend to agree with ironcross here. I tried radegast when it was launched and a few years ago but I could never get into it due to how complicated it is. I couldn't figure out exactly where am I, how to move, how to reach and pick up objects etc. Sure, there is a manual but it doesn't explain the practical things only the absolute basics.I wonder though, if the op claims he can do almost everything a sighted person can and if there are other blind people doing the same why don't we have any recordings of someone playing the game using the client and demonstrating how far has accessibility been implemented in second life? Surely this would be revolutionary and many people would join if they could hear an actual recording of someone enjoying daily life in sl. I searched on google but no youtube videos, no streams, nothing. 9 years is a lot, someone should have recorded themselves playing if the accessibility in sl is so amazing. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/561351/#p561351 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast
Re: Adding Radegast I see some analogy between the OP and me in the regard that I also propose games which are not so obvious to play, but they are definitely playable.if @OP is doing even classes for Radegast, then I can be pretty sure they know what they're doing and their words are truthworthy for me. I have tried SL and I had no clue what and how I am doing but that was because I didnt try much. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/561343/#p561343 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast
2020-08-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : ironcross32 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast Well, to be fare, you're going to want to talk to them so they can help you, because there is a bit to it. You also want to end up on ability island and not a mainstream sim. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/560949/#p560949 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast
2020-08-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : JayJay via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast Here's what? In the morning I'll try it both as a blind user and a semi-sighted user. And I'll tell you my conclusion. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/560933/#p560933 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast
2020-08-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : ironcross32 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast I mean, all these things I've experienced first hand so... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/560931/#p560931 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast
Re: Adding Radegast I want to point out first and foremost that I have no help with SL and no real horse in this race. But I'm gonna be devil's advocate for a sec.Ironcross, you say that there are things you aren't able to do unassisted, or well. The OP claims they don't have that problem. If they clso claim 9+ years playing, perhaps this is a learning-curve thing and you simply have not come across the ways that this game is playable?I think it's more than reasonable that you personally don't want to get into this game. I really don't either. But if Radegast really does make a bunch of the game a lot more playable, then surely it's at least worth a look. I think there is a line between disbelieving the OP outright, or assuming that their familiarity with the game has led to the problem where they underestimate the learning curve. What if that experience has actually led to them having a far better idea of what they're talking about?Put another way, dude, if I had to take the word of someone who tried a game and gave up, vs. a nine-year vet, I'm gonna trust the vet until such time that a huge bias is proven to be at play. I don't see that, so I think the onus is on you more than the OP. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/560915/#p560915 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast
Re: Adding Radegast @13, all good points. Props to you. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/560707/#p560707 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast
2020-08-12
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : ironcross32 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast I don't want to make it seem as though I'm calling out the OP for being dishonest. I don't believe they're being disingenuous or deceptive. It seems to be more an issue of standards. They have found a world in which they can feel at home, and have accepted the limitations that exist. I am not content with that for my own usage, because I've experienced SL visually. I will say though, even if I never had, I still wouldn't be impressed with the access that is granted by Radegast.The one area that I think the OP might be exaggerating slightly on is regarding how much help they require from sighted individuals to do certain tasks - at least for the first time. Clothing is one big factor, because the last time I was in world using Radegast, I got sighted assistance picking out clothing - which was fine - but I then had no idea which items were which, because the way they were identified was by using labels that had no meaning to me. Now, maybe the client offers the ability to re-label each element, but they would still presumably need help sorting through that for the first time at least.The second is attending events This post has some good info and goes over things that I didn't know, but of relevance here is the root prim issue. Everything in SL is made up of prims - primitive shapes - and then textured. If an object has several prims glued together to make one thing - which most do - you're not gonna know where in or on that thing you end up. If you're at a speaking engagement or somewhere that offers seating, you best hope you don't sit on someone. Can you imagine how embarrassing that would be IRl if you attended a symposium and sat on someone? Well, SL is supposed to be a second life, meaning that you treat it like you would if you were really there. For all intents and purposes, you are really there and it is real, so why would we expect this type of thing to be tolerated.Here's what I think is going on. OP is very passionate about SL and getting blind people in world. They are also very experienced with it, claiming 9 years in world. What happens to any of us after 9 years of experience with something? We tend to underestimate the initial learning curve for newbies. Not just that, but if we've solved certain problems by simply getting sighted help in certain situations, we've made that as part of our routine. It therefore doesn't seem odd to us to ask for help. For me personally, no amount of in world training is going to make me want to ask for help for every day tasks. If people want to do that, that is their prerogative and I am not judging them. I do believe there are some activities that can be undertaken completely independently as a blind person in world, but I don't believe that they encompass as much as it would take for me to take Radegast seriously. Maybe if we had a proper viewer that does everything that Firestorm does but is also screen reader accessible, I'd be open to exploring SL again. Until then, it's not for me, and I have been on top of this lately, because I don't think that it is necessarily going to be for many of the forumites either. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/560700/#p560700 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast
Re: Adding Radegast @11, no, ironcross32 is listing actual barriers that SL introduces. I hate to be disbelieving but I'd like some proof from @OP that they have actually done all of these things without requiring sighted assistance. It seems farfetched to me, and I've never played SL. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/560631/#p560631 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast
2020-08-09
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : Meatbag via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast You are talking about your personal experience. You can't just tell people to go away because of that URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/559771/#p559771 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast
2020-08-08
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : ironcross32 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast I can't agree. I've had my experiences that have shown me what we have access to in SL, and it's not that much. By all means, if it sounds interesting to people, they should definitely try it. But they're basically dumping time into something that will never be accessible to them. Being blind means you get a watered down, cut down experience from everyone else.It also means that to do the most basic of things, you have to find little work arounds like teleporting in micro jumps. Now, this is something we do to play mainstream games, but after we sink the time in, our reward for the patience and work we've put in to learn the game, we get the reward of having fun in it. How can you have fun in SL when 99.5% of it is not available to you? That's why I don't think Radegast makes a good database candidate, and why I don't recommend people try SL. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/559701/#p559701 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast
2020-08-08
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : heartssong via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast ironcross32 wrote:You can access some things, but it's very visual. Going into SL blind feels like you have more of a disability than in the real world. You need help to do so many things that you wouldn't in real life, or that you may require minimal assistance in real life.Picking out clothing is one. You have to buy clothing, but since Radegast is a text-only client for a 3D game, you cannot access certain aspects of the clothing, i.e. the HUD that so many of them have for various options. So you need to find clothing that doesn't have the HUD. Then you actually need help getting dressed because there is no way to organize clothing so that you know what each piece is.There are events held in Second Life. Everything from conferences to concerts, speaking engagements, what have you. All these things you will be able to go to, but you will need help from someone else to know where to be. Without that, you'll either be standing at a random place, or you'll try to find a chair in the list and sit down, only for someone to tell you that you've just sat down on someone else.My conclusion about it is that it's not a game or an audio game, and that we can't play it without a lot of sighted help. I totally understand that some people do view this as a much better alternative to life. For instance, without giving too much away, I've met people on there with very serious disabilities that severely limit their physical capabilities in the real world. But what they have is the ability to see, so when they go into SL, they can feel free as a bird in there. I'm not trying to take that away from anyone. But it's just that if you're blind, you won't get that experience. You'll feel more of a burden in there than you do in real life. You won't be able to do as much as you can in real life, and you won't have access to even a tenth of a percent of the things that SL has to offer. This is why I'm not recommending it for candidacy in the database.I have absolutely no problem getting dressed or knowing what clothing items are in my inventory. It takes practice to learn how to get dressed in SL. As for going places, I never recieve any help in that area either. Second Life is not something you just are going to be able to walk in to and instantly grasp. It takes time because it is a huge environment.There are clothing huds, but huds are accessible if their buttons are labeled. A lot of us don't use huds for our clothes just because we prefer it hat way. That is a personal preference. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/559693/#p559693 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast
2020-08-08
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : heartssong via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast pitermach wrote:I personally have no experience with second life and I do not believe any of the other editors do either. From what I gathered about reading about Radagast and all the other aproaches people used to use before, getting into SL currently would require someone to not only sit down and get used to the controls but also meet up with another person to give them a tutorial, so if it were to get an entry I think someone very familiar with the service would need to write a description.And, like Ironcross said, for something to get a database entry, it needs to let a blind person access almost every aspect of the game or there at least being simple work arounds to any remaining barriers, so that a blind person could play it completely independently to completion, or in the case of multiplayer, being able to access every feature without being left out of anything major. From what I know, Second life is an extremely complex game, with tons of side activities you can do. Does radagast let you access any of that or are you just mainly limited to walking around and talking to people?Yes, you can access virtually whatever you like in world. The only thing we can not do right now is drive a vehicle. The only reason why we can't do that is because arrow buttons are not displaying. They are there; the screen readers just are not recognizing them. But the developer, Cinder Roxley, has a fix for that and an update is expected any day now with the fix in place.You don't have to have someone teach you how to use Radegast. There is a guide on the website you can use to learn on your own. We wrote it that way so that people could access SL on their own without any problems should they choose. But I personally recommend that you accept a little help just to get used to Second Life itself as it is so detailed. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/559692/#p559692 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast
2020-08-08
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : heartssong via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast ironcross32 wrote:I am against this. While the client may be accessible, Second Life is far from it. This forum is about audio games, and while it is undoubtedly true that SL has an audio component, that does not complete the experience.Blind people are able to access a fraction of a fraction of a percent of all sims out there independently, so my position on this would be that it doesn't fulfill the accessibility criterion.It also doesn't fit the nature of a game, since it tries to be well, a second life. Given these two points, I think it's not advisable to add Radegast to the database.As osmeone who uses Second Life independently every day I totally disagree. What have you actually done in world? I fish all the time, create potions, have worked as a reporter, attend concerts, go to clubs, host events all over the grid, work with one of the major in world gaming companies. I say that to say I do whatever I want to in world. I am a fashionista with a huge collection of clothes and shoes, I am a fisher, a community leader. Most people don't even know I am blind unless I tell them. I rarely run in to problems in world and if I do I contact the sim owner and they are usually more than happy to make things more accessible. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/559691/#p559691 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast
2020-08-08
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : heartssong via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast ashleygrobler04 wrote:i wanted to use this thing for a while, but i don't know how to get started...We are having a class tomrrow night at 6:00 PM PST. Register a Second Life account at:http://www.virtualability.organd get a copy of Radegast here:radegast.lifeThen log in and join us! I am blind and I love SL. Have been a happy resident for nine years. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/559690/#p559690 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast
2020-08-07
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : ironcross32 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast You can access some things, but it's very visual. Going into SL blind feels like you have more of a disability than in the real world. You need help to do so many things that you wouldn't in real life, or that you may require minimal assistance in real life.Picking out clothing is one. You have to buy clothing, but since Radegast is a text-only client for a 3D game, you cannot access certain aspects of the clothing, i.e. the HUD that so many of them have for various options. So you need to find clothing that doesn't have the HUD. Then you actually need help getting dressed because there is no way to organize clothing so that you know what each piece is.There are events held in Second Life. Everything from conferences to concerts, speaking engagements, what have you. All these things you will be able to go to, but you will need help from someone else to know where to be. Without that, you'll either be standing at a random place, or you'll try to find a chair in the list and sit down, only for someone to tell you that you've just sat down on someone else.My conclusion about it is that it's not a game or an audio game, and that we can't play it without a lot of sighted help. I totally understand that some people do view this as a much better alternative to life. For instance, without giving too much away, I've met people on there with very serious disabilities that severely limit their physical capabilities in the real world. But what they have is the ability to see, so when they go into SL, they can feel free as a bird in there. I'm not trying to take that away from anyone. But it's just that if you're blind, you won't get that experience. You'll feel more of a burden in there than you do in real life. You won't be able to do as much as you can in real life, and you won't have access to even a tenth of a percent of the things that SL has to offer. This is why I'm not recommending it for candidacy in the database. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/559122/#p559122 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast
2020-08-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : pitermach via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast I personally have no experience with second life and I do not believe any of the other editors do either. From what I gathered about reading about Radagast and all the other aproaches people used to use before, getting into SL currently would require someone to not only sit down and get used to the controls but also meet up with another person to give them a tutorial, so if it were to get an entry I think someone very familiar with the service would need to write a description.And, like Ironcross said, for something to get a database entry, it needs to let a blind person access almost every aspect of the game or there at least being simple work arounds to any remaining barriers, so that a blind person could play it completely independently to completion, or in the case of multiplayer, being able to access every feature without being left out of anything major. From what I know, Second life is an extremely complex game, with tons of side activities you can do. Does radagast let you access any of that or are you just mainly limited to walking around and talking to people? URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558978/#p558978 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast
2020-08-06
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : ironcross32 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast I am against this. While the client may be accessible, Second Life is far from it. This forum is about audio games, and while it is undoubtedly true that SL has an audio component, that does not complete the experience.Blind people are able to access a fraction of a fraction of a percent of all sims out there independently, so my position on this would be that it doesn't fulfill the accessibility criterion.It also doesn't fit the nature of a game, since it tries to be well, a second life. Given these two points, I think it's not advisable to add Radegast to the database. URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/558975/#p558975 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast
2020-08-03
Thread
AudioGames . net Forum — Site and forum feedback : ashleygrobler04 via Audiogames-reflector
Re: Adding Radegast i wanted to use this thing for a while, but i don't know how to get started... URL: https://forum.audiogames.net/post/557875/#p557875 -- Audiogames-reflector mailing list Audiogames-reflector@sabahattin-gucukoglu.com https://sabahattin-gucukoglu.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/audiogames-reflector
