Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] inguz forum
haunyack;231337 Wrote: Hugh, Very nice forum. I'll be as present there as I am here. I've learned much from you and hope to learn more in your own back yard! Thanks for the generosity and humility. Refreshing! Ditto! Thanks, muski -- muski SB3-Bryston BP25DA-Bryston 4B SST-Wilson Watt Puppy 7 Transporter via XLR-Headroom Max Balanced Headphone Amp-Balanced AKG701s HD650s muski's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3670 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38822 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] First shot at using Inguz
mortod;230718 Wrote: DRC applies mic calibration to the filter, not the TestConvolution which means that all those frequency responses are without mic calibration and *are* comparable. Thank you -- an explanation that makes sense! Now I understand why my normal flat Test Convolutions look like my ECM calibration file. It's consistent -- if my system room were (theoretically) perfectly flat, the resulting uncalibrated response would look identical to the freq response curve of the mic. I also confirmed this in the real world. Using a sweep recorded by a calibrated ECM8000 mic, I created a filter using normal.drc with a flat target and my ECM8000's custom calibration file (not the standard one in DRC). I then used an Earthworks M30 to record a Sweep (with EQ in L channel) test tone with the ECM8000_normal_flat filter in use. I processed this and looked at the Impulse_Response_Measured graph. (Although the Impulse_Response_Measured file is not corrected with the M30's mic calibration file, the M30 is flat enough without correction for this test). Anyway, although the resulting freq response is far from perfect, it is moves around a flat-ish line, and does not have the big +10db hump at 10k that is characteristic of my ECM's calibration file. (The graphs are in post #11, here: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38758page=2) muski BTW, a little drc trick. Tired of constantly having to use Audacity to convert my xxx_Test_Convolution files from 32 bit float to 16 bit integer to graph them in REQW, I discovered that if you change the last line of the .drc files line to TCOutFileType = I (instead of F), it creates 16 bit integer files... -- muski SB3-Bryston BP25DA-Bryston 4B SST-Wilson Watt Puppy 7 Transporter via XLR-Headroom Max Balanced Headphone Amp-Balanced AKG701s HD650s muski's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3670 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=35615 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Earthworks M30 vs ECM 8000 side-by-side test for Inguz DRC
Recorded sweeps using both of the Tascam US-122L and the Sound Devices USBPre audio interfaces today. The Earthworks M30 mic remained in exactly the same spot. The Octave plots MRFDWSmoothed.jpg and PRFDWSmoothed-1-6.jpg are shown below. +---+ |Filename: AI-PRFDWSmoothed-1-6.jpg | |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3465| +---+ -- muski SB3-Bryston BP25DA-Bryston 4B SST-Wilson Watt Puppy 7 Transporter via XLR-Headroom Max Balanced Headphone Amp-Balanced AKG701s HD650s muski's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3670 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38758 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linn Klimax DS - Network Music Player
norderney;231268 Wrote: Just been reading a review of the Linn Klimax DS - http://www.linn.co.uk/klimax_ds - in the October issue of Hi-Fi World - http://www.linn.co.uk/files/eaccc978/Linn%20Klimax.pdf. The one positive thing Linn has achieved is to make the ultra-conservative audiophile press to start taking the concept seriously. Apart from that, I find little to cheer. To start off, we encounter a massive error in the very first sentence of the review: Linn's new network-enabled music player is quite unlike any other such device on the market sigh, but I suppose that comment is to be expected. I note that the device itself has no display, which means that you need the Linn remote to control it. (It's unfortunate that this review doesn't give us any description of how this device operates). In this respect it's operationally akin to the Sonos (or the Jive, when Slim Devices actually get that interface working). From an audio performance perspective, of course, it's more akin to the Transporter. Yes, the Klimax supports 192kHz compared to the Transporter's 96kHz. So what? But it appears to lack a couple of things that we take for granted on the Transporter: wireless connectivity (surely this would have been mentioned in the review if it was present), and digital inputs so you can use it with other sources. I would also be extremely surprised if it has a digital volume control. Assuming it lacks this feature, it means that use of an analogue preamp is pretty much compulsory (and many forum members will already know my views about the desirability of eliminating the preamp from a system). The price is what you'd expect from Linn. Just because it costs a king's ransom is no guarantee that it will sound fabulous. (Consider Linn's ludicrously overpriced loudspeakers, for example). And finally, the review's conclusion repeats the opening howler: Essentially, the first truely high-end, high resolution network music player Essentially, this review is a kick in the teeth to Slim Devices (and Sonos, for that matter). Neither of these pioneering companies get a mention. Shame on you, Hawksford. -- cliveb Transporter - ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38815 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linkwitz Orions
No, I don't misunderstand. You were trying to apply a mathematical definition of polar radiation where it does not fit. A typical dynamic loudspeaker is a far cry from your pulsating sphere. Regardless of the strictest definition of the term monopole you may care to employ, a loudspeaker with drivers mounted on one side is and has always been referred to as a monopolar radiator, even though it's radiation in no way approximates your perfect pulsating sphere, which to my knowledge, doesn't exist in this world. To put it another way, what in audio circles is referred to as a monopole loudspeaker (correctly or incorrectly) in no way matches the performance described by the strictest definition of the term monopolar! I think I've exhausted my ammo on this subject. Or at least all I care to. Whatever...enjoy the music. -- jdm56 jdm56's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9919 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Earthworks M30 vs ECM 8000 side-by-side test for Inguz DRC
Chinanico;231329 Wrote: I might try that. Actually I was thinking, as more and more people get their ECM8000 calibrated, but others don't... (or can't, for me in Shanghai I wouldn't know where to go), would it be possible to build so kind of database of the calibration files and compare them. Maybe we will see that there are some patterns that could be used to extrapolate a theoretical average calibration file that we could use by default if we didn't have had calibration (and that might better the default from DRC)... or maybe we will see that there is no way but to have a calibration. I know some of you guys already published files, but we could start to collect them more formally, if you agree. Here is mine... +---+ |Filename: ecm8000cal.txt | |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3468| +---+ -- muski SB3-Bryston BP25DA-Bryston 4B SST-Wilson Watt Puppy 7 Transporter via XLR-Headroom Max Balanced Headphone Amp-Balanced AKG701s HD650s muski's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=3670 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38758 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Earthworks M30 vs ECM 8000 side-by-side test for Inguz DRC
Here is muski's calibrations file (vertical axis in dB, horizontal is log base 10 of frequency). The second plot is smoothed by averaging over each consecutive set of 10 values. It looks very roughly like the plot Behringer gives here, in the specs: http://www.behringerdownload.de/ECM8000/ECM8000_C_Specs.pdf +---+ |Filename: ECM8000 plots.jpg| |Download: http://forums.slimdevices.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3469| +---+ -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38758 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linn Klimax DS - Network Music Player
Neither of these pioneering companies get a mention. Then again, do they advertise in the magazine. UK hi-fi reviewers are bought and paid for :( -- amcluesent amcluesent's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10286 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38815 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Someone tell me I am crazy!
Hey All, I have a feeling that I may alienate myself a bit with my first post herebut here goes... I dont belive Don tried the Carbon Fiber as a shot-in-the-dark kind of whim. I've been reading-up on Carbon Fiber (CF) for audio applications for a short time. What I've found seems quite interesting to me. I'll pontificate for a bit and then paste some quotes/info that caught my eye, but what Im posting here is by no means the end-all-be-all on the subject. So please take all that I post with a grain of salt. Also note that most of what I'm posting is NOT in direct reference to SB3 or Transporter, though it is totally on topic with the thread started by Don. 1: DeafCat, check this out: http://www.twpinc.com/twpinc/control/category/~category_id=TWPCAT_11 If you do a web-search for RFI/EMI fabrics, mesh, screen etc... a TON of options come-up, many are coated or metalized fabrics that pass air in/out.Good Luck! 2: I recently purchased some CF sleeves and a small sheet to test. I did this before reading Dons post(s). I do not know if the CF will have any audible impact in my system, but Ill report back to the group on my impressions, if anyones interested that is. 3: Heres a bit of my thought process behind my decision to spend ~$60 and some DIY-time on some CF sleeves and fabric to test in my system: I think most of us can agree that RFI can/will degrade a systems sound quality to some degree or another. Also, depending on where one is living (near industry, in a big city, radio transmitter/relay towers, etc... vs. miles from anything) also affect the relative amounts of transmitted and airborne RFI pollution ones system may have to overcome. We all know that certain gear (sources, amps, pre, cables, etc) rejects or limits the intrusion/transmission/radiation of RFI/EMI better than others. So, that means the potential audible benefits of RFI attenuation will be both system and locale dependant. Consider that someone owning a high-end system where theres no RFI will likely not benefit much from RFI shielding/attenuation. The converse is also very true. I know all of you posting here already know this stuff; the above is primarily for those whore reading and not posting. Knowing that CF absorbs RFI (think original Stealth Technology) then, theoretically speaking, if each individual piece of audio gear (cables and all) were completely encased in carbon, then externally radiated RFI would be attenuated and internally generated radiated RFI generated in each component would also be limited in its ability to escape and impact other parts of the audio system. Interesting enough, but this CF application does nothing for the RFI transmitted via cables and connectorsor does it? I've read but I don't claim to understand the discourse between a pair of electrical engineers discussing the benefits of CF in their own audio DIY projects. One of them suggests that CF can, when placed at the ends of cables, limit harmonic-ringing and standing waveswhich in some cases can have audible benefits. This may account for some of the success of Furutech and Oyaide have had with using carbon fiber in outlet covers and certain manufacturers have had with creating the IEC and plug ends out of CF (Acrolink maybe, cant recall, sorry?). This sounds ridiculous to me, especially at the prices being asked for these things, but the number of people (well respected and otherwise) that have reported positive audible benefits that these products supposedly provide can not (at least not by me) be dismissed out-of-hand So, that and the below quotes were the foundation of my reasoning for thinking that I should get some of this carbon fiber and try it out for myeslf .$60, heh, if it doesnt work no biggie, at least my system wont be picked-up on radar! 4: OK, here are those quotes I promised. All credit goes to the original posters'. Begin Quote: The carbon damps RF resonances on the power cords. - Al Sekela 16:43:28 05/30/07 (0) In Reply to: RE: Add some carbon fiber to the face plate. posted by Soundripples on May 30, 2007 at 11:00:39 It is essentially the same technique used to make stealth aircraft. Electromagnetic waves are reflected by good conductors, such as the aluminum plate in your project or aircraft skin. If the waves encounter a resistive surface, such as the carbon fiber or the secret materials used on stealth aircraft (hint: see Stillpoints ERS cloth), they are converted to heat and little of their energy is reflected. If the resistance is too high, they pass through until they hit the underlying metal, and then they are reflected. There is some optimum value of surface resistivity that will totally absorb the waves. I don't know what it is, but typical carbon fiber material seems to be reasonably close. Lucky for us that carbon fiber is also used to make golf club shafts and the like, and the materials are available at non-audio prices.
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Someone tell me I am crazy!
Dyak;231488 Wrote: the number of people (well respected and otherwise) that have reported positive audible benefits that these products supposedly provide can not (at least not by me) be dismissed out-of-hand You're making a common logic error. Just because a large number of people say something is true does not actually make that thing true, especially when a lot of those people earn their living selling the thing they are talking-up. For example, look at astrology. There are many millions of people who believe their lives are controlled by such silliness as where the stars and planets are in relation to each other and the earth. Are they right? What about psychics? Do you think any of them really can see the future? A lot of women who live in trailers do. How about Naziism? A lot of people were convinced that there was an ultimate solution to all of mankind's problems. Were they right? Look how many people voted for W, not once, but twice! That alone should tell you about the wisdom of crowds. All of this still ignores the dangers of handling CF and especially the danger of CF fiber fragments getting into your audio equipment and wrecking it. You can make all the arguments you want about stealth technology and whatever crap you read on some internet forum populated by religious fanatics disguised as audiophiles, or in marketing literature from companies trying to sell expensive stuff to audiophiles. In the end, if you wrap your equipment in CF cloth it is unlikely to keep working for very long. If you are lucky, no one including you, your children, spouse, guests, or pets will have the mind-bending experience of inhaling any of those flying fiber fragments. What makes more sense, listening to a salesman whose next boat payment depends on your believing what he says or believing what the MSDS says, and what people who have handled the material say? I think the public school system in this country needs to put a lot more effort into teaching critical thinking skills... TD -- tyler_durden tyler_durden's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2701 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38628 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Someone tell me I am crazy!
Godwin's Law +1. Seriously though, everyone should be very skeptical about these claims for CF. If you want to shield a component from ambient RFI, you want to make a Faraday cage out of the best conductor you can find - NOT something resistive. I don't know how good a conductor CF is for RFs, but I doubt it's very good - which means that yes, some of the energy will be absorbed and converted into heat, but much of the rest will simply pass through and affect the equipment inside. Aluminum foil is probably better. -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38628 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Test your ears, Speakers or generate impuls response characteristics of your room!
Hello A friend of mine was so kint to provide me with a sine sweep from 20hz to 20khz lasting 60 seconds. It is a flac with 24 bits per sample and 96khz samples stereo. It was generated by csound and had some clicks added every ten seconds so that I would know the file was still playing. It can be used to test speakers, ears and to generate impuls response characteristics that could be helpful for room correction using inguz. But *** WARNING *** WARNING *** WARNING *** The energy of any given wave is proportional to its frequency meaning high frequencies carry loads of energy that could : - destroy the high tone driver of your speakers - SERIOUSLY HARM your ears (gave me a bit of pain actually ) - irritate bat man and your dog. Since high notes are generally perceived less likely by human hearing there is a temptation to raise the volume of your amp or to move closer to your high end speakers just to proove that the money spend for a transporter dac of any kint amp or speakers wasn't for nothing. DO NOT DO IT! I shall not be liable for any damage to you or your equippment! Just keep the volume down and listen how long you can actually hear something. The high frequencies have a longer duration since there are more frequencies to itterate through than in the low range which is just due to the fact that a linear algorithm was used. Low frequencies are therefore under represented in subjective hearing. Any reports about speakers transporter or sb3 performance are GREATLY welcomed. If you want other files for example with exponential itteration to have equal representation of low and high frequencies I might ask my friend. You can download the file here: http://www.masterid.de/sweep.flac Cheers Jeronimo -- jaysung jaysung's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=12375 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Someone tell me I am crazy!
opaqueice;231502 Wrote: Godwin's Law +1. Did I miss the Nazi reference, or do you mean Darwin? -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38628 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Someone tell me I am crazy!
Dyak;231488 Wrote: 1: DeafCat, check this out: http://www.twpinc.com/twpinc/control/category/~category_id=TWPCAT_11 If you do a web-search for RFI/EMI fabrics, mesh, screen etc... a TON of options come-up, many are coated or metalized #8220;fabrics#8221; that pass air in/out. Good Luck! Doug Cheers :) Interesting stuff -- Deaf Cat Deaf Cat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=515 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38628 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] High levels of b.g. noise
Am using a SB3 wirelessly with a PS Audio Digilink III DA converter. The system is utterly silent when running a CD player digital signal into the DA converter, but with the SQ3 feeding a digital signal into the Digilink III, the system has significant b.g. noise (hiss), compressed dynamics and much less soundstaging. I am using full size AIFF files, is that the culprit? Seems like others are using the SB3 in high end systems with good success. -- apple2k apple2k's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13381 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38846 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Test your ears, Speakers or generate impuls response characteristics of your room!
This sort of thing is a good way to destroy tweeters. Good luck to all who DL and run the file. This sort of thing would be a good trojan for the RIAA to put on P2P networks. Label it as some kind of popular song title and have 0dB 20 kHz + 0dB 20 kHz either sumperimposed on the music or replacing it altogether. The damage will be done in just a second or two, anyway. TD -- tyler_durden tyler_durden's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2701 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Someone tell me I am crazy!
Skunk;231523 Wrote: Did I miss the Nazi reference, or do you mean Darwin? I meant Godwin. It's in Tyler's post. But Darwin may be at work here as well - an audiophile that dies by inhalation of CF particles from a very ineffective Faraday cage would be a pretty strong candidate for his eponymous award -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38628 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Someone tell me I am crazy!
Tyler, I don't feel I have made a logic error, as I was voicing my opinion, not making a blanket statement of Truth. Sorry if I did not make it clear it seems my writing style (or lack thereof?) can be an impediment. Regardless, the convincing factors, for me, was of some individuals whose opinions I've come to respect over the past few years...and I was merely linking that to why I ventured to put my $$ down to test and evaluate their claims. Did you also happen to catch the phrase immediately preceding the portion of my post that you (selectively?) copied, where I qualify this entire statement with, This sounds ridiculous to me, but the number I am skeptical of their claims and will test and evaluate them for myself. I was skeptical of the audible benefits of component vibration control. I was skeptical of the purported benefits of certain types of power conditioning. I was skeptical of the effects of speaker placement and room tuning. So, instead of my going and claiming to the world that these things Could Not, Would Not, and Never Will make any audible benefits to any individual's system; I went out, gathered what info I could, acquired materials, asked questions, and then tested and personally evaluated each of these to my own satisfaction in my system. Granted, what and how I've tested would not survive a Peer-Review and could not be taken by anyone else as anything other than Opinion.as this is Audio we're discussing, which its perception is a completely subjective and individual experience. But I've researched, tested, and then evaluated, which is the very foundation of critical thinking which you just bashed in your post. As defined on Wikipedia: Critical thinking consists of mental processes of discernment, analyzing and evaluating. So, have you tested CF yet, and can you tell me, with completely unbiased objectivity that CF CAN NOT have an audible impact or are you simply making an assumption and stating it as fact? In light of your response, please lay-off the derision and name calling, you're a senior member here Thank you for the kind welcome. Overall, I can understand a lack of open minds, this is not a forum dedicated to discussing experimentation with largely theoretical ideas, though I can say that as I read one or two posts in this thread, I recall reading of certain individuals claiming that it was an absolute physical impossibility for the Wright Bros. to fly. Let me back-up. A bit... I'm not trying to convince you, me, or anyone else that this CF stuff truly does work; I'm merely trying to show to those that are interested in the subject that there was enough interesting info out there to convince me (and others before me) to experiment with it. I did not quote or refer to even the tip-of-the-iceberg on the subject. You're right I did not address safety issues, but I do electrical wiring too; I work with chemicals daily; I drive a truck; and I even go swimming! All of these require proper preparation before engaging in the activity and can be quite deadly to those who play with them in an unprepared and childish manner. Thank you for the warning and for the MSDS, but I will pay-the-piper should I fail to prepare and act in a properly disciplined manner. Hey Opaqueice, Yeah, you're probably right on both fronts. Everyone should be skeptical of the claims .test and evaluate for oneself! And I think youre totally correct about the Faraday Cage statement too. Im not certain about the aluminum foil statement though, as Ive tested it a bit, and found that the foil, grounded or ungrounded, wrapped around cables, components, or the entire rack seemed to have more negatives or no-impacts than benefits that I was able to perceive, in my system, at that time Maybe incorrectly, I have hypothesized that: 1) A combination of the shield (metal body of most components = a Faraday Cage) with a CF absorber may potentially add a bit of audible effectiveness. 2) That plastic bodied components may benefit more than the metal cased ones due to a lack of shield (and CF is cheaper, quicker, and easier for me to cover an existing component than using a metal project box, or sheet-metal). 3) That unshielded cables (PCs and ICs), specifically, may benefit from CF. Of course I could be totally wrong with all of the above, but for $60 I get to test/experiment and determine perceived effectiveness in my own system, first-hand as opposed to relying on others' reports or theories. So, likely I've wasted $60, but on the off-chance that I did nothm, that will make me quite happy. I live less than 300-meters from the beginning of a transmitter array I suffer from EMI/RFI related issuesaarrghh. Thank goodness I'm a hopeless Tweaker, and I keep repeating to my significant other something that I read recently when she comments on the amount of time I spend experimenting, building, and re-arranging .I tell her, At least its
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Test your ears, Speakers or generate impuls response characteristics of your room!
tyler_durden;231538 Wrote: This sort of thing is a good way to destroy tweeters. Indeed so. It reminds me of the biggest case of brain-fade I ever had, audio-wise. Back in about 1990, I had a HiFi News test CD, and was interested in checking my hearing. After being pleasantly surprised that I could hear the 18kHz tone, I tried the 20kHz one. Needless to say, I heard nothing. So I thought to myself, I wonder if I would hear it if I turned up the volume?. What I did hear, of course, was the inevitable pop-pop as both tweeters of one of my Linn Isobariks burned out. It took about a millisecond for me to realise what had happened and how stupid I had been. Luckily the tone was only playing on one channel. -- cliveb Transporter - ATC SCM100A cliveb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Someone tell me I am crazy!
Dyak;231539 Wrote: I am skeptical of their claims and will test and evaluate them for myself. I was skeptical of the audible benefits of component vibration control. I was skeptical ... snip But I've researched, tested, and then evaluated, which is the very foundation of critical thinking which you just bashed in your post. As defined on Wikipedia: Critical thinking consists of mental processes of discernment, analyzing and evaluating. Its a matter of degrees, I guess. When I see statements I know or suspect to be ridiculous, I make a decision NOT to spend money/time to test them. THAT is the essence of critical thinking. If you have to go out and test everything for yourself you're NOT applying critical thinking. If I tell you that shooting yourself in the head will make your system sound better, will you test it? Of course not. No one would, therefore everyone is capable of applying critical thinking to some situations. Critical thinking is about applying your knowledge and experience. Knowing the effect of a gun is enough to know that it can't possibly improve the sound of your audio system. Granted some folks have less knowledge and experience than others and therefore will need to perform more experiments, but another place to apply critical thinking is in knowing whose opinions to trust and in the design and analysis of the experiments. The first sign of someone being less than trustworthy is when their income depends on your believing what they have to say. There are other factors as well, such as the person's statements about other topics, etc. Some people are just misled and repeat what they have heard elsewhere and others are just pathological liars and will make up whatever pleases them for whatever reasons they have. Surely we can agree that there is a huge change, detectable by anyone with functioning ears, when one plays music with the amp switched off and then switched on. The experimenter's expectations are unlikely to influence the result of such a test. However, when the likely (or unlikely) effect of a tweak is small, the effect of the experimenter's expectations must be considered. Someone wraps equipment in CF and by golly, they hear a difference. Can it be a huge difference? maybe, if they live next to a TV broadcast antenna or similar high power RF source. If not, which is the majority of locations in the world, it will be at most a slight difference. This requires proper experiment design to test with any significance. Proper design includes double blind testing. Instrumentation would be better than a human listener because it has fewer biases, but then you open the whole measurable vs. audible can of worms and the whole thing, like this thread, quickly becomes mind-numbing. No one has denied that there may be an effect when wrapping equipment with CF cloth. It is conductive. Conductive shields are used in electronics everywhere. The difference is that those conductive shields are part of an overall system design to improve or maintain performance. What has been pointed out is that using CF cloth as a shield is likely to end up wrecking the very equipment that the CF wrapper is trying to improve. It has also been pointed out by experienced people (well, me, anyway) that handling CF cloth in a living space is not a good idea because the same flying fibers that will short electrical circuits are easily inhaled and caught in the eyes and skin and the reaction is definitely unpleasant to say the least. I'm going to apply some critical thinking here and state that using aluminum foil instead of CF cloth is likely to provide the same audible benefit as CF, but it doesn't have the associated risks (or cost). However, having been schooled in electrical engineering and worked as an RFIC designer and applications support engineer for about 15 years of my past career, I can also tell you that the haphazard method of randomly placing sheets of aluminum or CF cloth on objects without actually designing the system as a shield is just as likely to cause as many problems as it fixes. Ungrounded pieces of metal wrapped around signal leads are as likely to acts as antennas as they are shields and capacitively couple noise into the circuits they are intended to protect. I know a lot of people like the way CF cloth looks. It is pretty stuff, in an industrial sort of way. If they use it in cars, motorcycles, aircraft, and even bicycles, it's gotta be good for audio, too, right? Wrong. Advertisers have worked for years to train people to think that by showing pictures of high performance cars you'll think that the computer is faster; that because some athlete wears a particular brand of shoes, you'll be able to do what they do if you wear the same shoes; smoking is sexy and enhances athletic performance. The list goes on and on. CF is a material that all sort of magical properties have been assigned to simply by the nature of the things
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Someone tell me I am crazy!
tyler_durden;231555 Wrote: If I tell you that shooting yourself in the head will make your system sound better, will you test it? What kind of bullet, silver or gold tipped? And will I still hear digital glare afterwards? Darren -- darrenyeats SB3 / Inguz - Sony DAS-703ES DAC - Krell KAV-300i - PMC AB-1 Dell laptop - JVC UX-C30 mini system darrenyeats's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10799 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38628 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Test your ears, Speakers or generate impuls response characteristics of your room!
of course there's a name for that time interval. ohnosecond ;-) -- inguz inguz's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38842 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linkwitz Orions
opaqueice;231339 Wrote: A monopole is *spherically* symmetric, not cylindrically symmetric. It radiates sound equally in all directions - up, down, left, right, back, forward. Again, try to imagine a little sphere that grows and shrinks, grows and shrinks. I agree with you that no loudspeaker has that characteristic, nor did I ever claim so (and neither did anyone else AFAIK). Well. While it's not perfectly spherical in it's radiation pattern the MBL Radialstrahler is getting pretty close... http://www.mbl-germany.de/Reference_html/101_e.html It uses top and bottom mounted voice coils to flex an aluminum ovoid, radiating omni-directionally, although not with a perfectly spherical shape. I've never heard one, but they are supposed to sound very good. Dave -- DCtoDaylight DCtoDaylight's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7284 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Someone tell me I am crazy!
I would opt for a platinum bullet. Then the eulogy could state that, although excedingly stupid, i was also excedingly wealthy. and still unable to spell -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38628 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Square waves are not very helpful for audio
I could argue that square waves are very useful in designing audio gear, precisely because the are hard to amplify and give me instant insite into what an amp is doing! Like any test signal, you do need to recognize it's limitations though. One of those, as you're pointing out, is that a 20KHz square wave is useless when testing sampled audio systems using the 44.1 or 48 KHz sampling rates. A 20KHz square wave is still useful in understanding the behaviour of an analog circuit when pushed beyond it's normal operating conditions. Cheers, Dave -- DCtoDaylight DCtoDaylight's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7284 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38813 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linkwitz Orions
DCtoDaylight;231582 Wrote: Well. While it's not perfectly spherical in it's radiation pattern the MBL Radialstrahler is getting pretty close... http://www.mbl-germany.de/Reference_html/101_e.html It uses top and bottom mounted voice coils to flex an aluminum ovoid, radiating omni-directionally, although not with a perfectly spherical shape. I've never heard one, but they are supposed to sound very good. They do. I heard their top-of-the-line system at CES this year. $50,000 speakers driven by some ludicrous stack of high-end electronics. It sounded very good - the best sound at the show, in my opinon - but I prefer the Orions (although really it's impossible to judge fairly unless both systems are in the same room). -- opaqueice opaqueice's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4234 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Square waves are not very helpful for audio
No argument, that was my first sentence. But unless you are designing audio gear, I don't see the relevance. The square wave picture on an o'scope provides a great intuitive picture. But as a consumer, I can't use that information once I've bought the amp, wire, etc. You can't feed a square wave through to your speaker, or the infinitely high frequencies will burn the tweeter before you can hear it. And you sure can't sample it, even if you were crazy enough to think it was music. I even had an o'scope a while back, it was very old and the internal caps became un-form-able. I've looked at prices, just for giggles recently, and you can buy a very nice car for the price of a modern o'scope. -- pfarrell Pat http://www.pfarrell.com/music/slimserver/slimsoftware.html pfarrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=200 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38813 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linkwitz Orions
At the end of the day, going forward, clearly, all else aside, what good is it to debate these points without actually hearing and comparing? Just a bunch of bloviating. Will you anal-retentive sceptics ever relax and enjoy the music? Probably never. Jeez...what a waste of energy. . -- haunyack Transporter - BK R200.2 - Vandersteen 3A Signature. (Listening room) SB3 (RWA analog) - Rotel RB1070 - BW Matrix 805. (Bedroom) Fridgidare - Mirror Pond pale ale - easy chair w/remote - irritated neighbors. haunyack's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9721 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38593 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Linn Klimax DS - Network Music Player
I had a personal demo of the Klimax DS last week. It's all business. Ethernet only, no other inputs either. It relies on UPnP and comes with (or at least suggests you use) Twonkymedia. They built a very basic Linn GUI for a front end on a PC or handheld as the case for my demo. The Linn guy played a CD on the Unidisk 1.1 and then switched over to the Klimax DS. I can say they sounded slightly differently. I do think I liked the Klimax DS more, but the differences didn't exactly jump out at you. When the Unidisk played, I didn't think it needed improvement. What it comes down to is that they needed an updated CD12 and decided to make it a network player instead. There's no way it's worth the $18,500 vs. the Transporter at $2k, but then I didn't compare them side-by-side either. The store owner said I could borrow it for a side-by-side if I wanted to. He was intrigued by the Transporter when he came over to setup my system originally. I don't know if I'll take him up on it because even if it is much better, I can't imagine buying one (vs. waiting for Transporter 2 or something). After all, it's basically a specialized PC with a DAC. We know there aren't many ways to make the PC part expensive, so the DAC is basically at least $18K of it. -- thomsens thomsens's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=1352 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38815 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Acoustic Foam
I was wondering if anyone has had experience with or opinions about Auralex products, which I am considering, and which are expensive, and www.foambymail.com, which is perhaps less specialized but far less expensive. I've been given the spousal okay to add corner treatments and some wall treatments to my den. I'm still in a state of disbelief. But, I want to act on it before the winds change. -- emilioforte emilioforte's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13255 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=38859 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
