[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Preamp needed?
PhilNYC;163185 Wrote: ...much of it is personal preference. However, you may also want to note the input sensitivity of the amp you are using. In my experience, running direct to an amp with a high input sensitivity will have better results than one with lower one. ...my personal preference is strongly in the camp of using a preamp...and adding a good preamp really improved the sound in a lot of ways IMHO...better tone, more meat to the sound, deeper soundstage, etc. Ditto! I wanted to keep it as simple [pure] as possible but couldn't really enjoy the SOUND. Adding a good preamp (SinglePower MPX3 SE with preamp out), I was able to max out the SB digital level yet didn't detect any transparency loss. In fact, everything improved. Finally, adding a good DAC (Altmann) really makes the system SING. -- PaulB PaulB's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2977 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30661 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Preamp needed?
wdrazek;163833 Wrote: Ben, if the TP is that good, I should consider it. Can you or anyone else comment on its superiority to a Bolder modded (that is, PS and Analog mods) SB3? Jeff, I think my SB3 will go into an integrated rather than a power amp for the reasons stated above - mainly, the loss of resolution at lower listening levels. I wrote a small review of the modded SB V TP on a thread here. You can do a search. In short, the 2 are quite comparable but the Bolder route would cost you more. My personal preference was for the TP. But they are close enough that it boils down to personal taste IMHO I will be auditioning an Aberdeen modded TP soon and will post impressions. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30661 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Preamp needed?
wdrazek;163360 Wrote: Ben, do you think you would be tempted to go with an outboard DAC even with the Transporter? Surely it can be bettered that way. I would not. I think the Transporter alone is slightly better than my SB3/Lavry combo. -Ben -- Ben Diss SB3 - Lavry DA10 - BAT VK-31SE - Halo A21 - BW 803D Ben Diss's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4289 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30661 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Preamp needed?
Remember that the Bolder modified SB3 drops the output voltage to a bit over 1 volt. You might consider the input voltage to drive the amp you select to full/functional volume. Have fun! -- Jeff G Jeff G's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7764 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30661 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Preamp needed?
Ben, if the TP is that good, I should consider it. Can you or anyone else comment on its superiority to a Bolder modded (that is, PS and Analog mods) SB3? Jeff, I think my SB3 will go into an integrated rather than a power amp for the reasons stated above - mainly, the loss of resolution at lower listening levels. -- wdrazek wdrazek's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8997 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30661 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Preamp needed?
I recently started running a Transporter without preamp into a pair of valve monoblocks - PrimaLuna Prologue Sevens - with success. * The output impedance of the Tp is 100R, vs the amps' input of approaching 100kR, which is a ratio of 1000, against rules of thumb saying anything above from x10 to x250, so there should be no problem of treble roll-off due to impedance mismatch. * The max output of the Tp is 3Vrms and the amps require as little as 1Vrms for maximum output so there is no prob hitting maximum volume I didn't expect any electrical problems or gain problems, and there aren't any :) The sound is excellent. There are two drawbacks so far: * I have no feed for a sub. This could be added either by RCA Y-adapters on the Tp RCA output, or by drilling and mounting an extra RCA pass-through socket on each amp. Note that the balanced outputs are fixed level so I can't used these :( * Other digital sources such as laptop can be connected in, but to use other analogue sources one must use an ADC into the Tp, such as the Behringer SRC2496 -- SteveC SteveC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=665 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30661 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Preamp needed?
SteveC;163393 Wrote: I recently started running a Transporter without preamp into a pair of valve monoblocks - PrimaLuna Prologue Sevens - with success. * The output impedance of the Tp is 100R, vs the amps' input of approaching 100kR, which is a ratio of 1000, against rules of thumb saying anything above from x10 to x250, so there should be no problem of treble roll-off due to impedance mismatch. * The max output of the Tp is 3Vrms and the amps require as little as 1Vrms for maximum output so there is no prob hitting maximum volume I didn't expect any electrical problems or gain problems, and there aren't any :) The sound is excellent. There are two drawbacks so far: * I have no feed for a sub. This could be added either by RCA Y-adapters on the Tp RCA output, or by drilling and mounting an extra RCA pass-through socket on each amp. Note that the balanced outputs are fixed level so I can't used these :( * Other digital sources such as laptop can be connected in, but to use other analogue sources one must use an ADC into the Tp, such as the Behringer SRC2496 Steve, Have you looked into the endler balanced attenuaters? There is a thread on them. That might solve your sub prob. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30661 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Preamp needed?
Let me preface my comments by saying that I live in the 26th floor of an apartment block and cannot really play music loud enough to warrant the system I brought here from the US have been expanding since. But I won't always live here! I also enjoy video in 5:1 and don't have the luxury of two separate rooms (or 4 ears). Thus the pre-amp is an essential part of my system. Actually a Denon 3805 AVR. Through the AVR I also drive a sub-woofer (Velodyne DD15). The sub's set up routine lets me adjust the response of the sub and blend it in with the bass of the main speakers (BW 804s). The AVR allows the low frequencies, below cut off frequency of 80Hz to be sent to the sub. Thus the 'receiver' or 'preamp' part of the AVR deals with the 'speakers' (mains and sub). How could I do that with no 'receiver/preamp'? Sometimes too, it's a nice effect to listen to 'stereo' in 5:1 surround. The AVR also has a 'direct stereo' mode where the artifacts of the 'receiver' are minimized and you get as close as you can to the Transporter direct to the amp. I recently (it's Christmas after all) replaced the 'amplifier' of the AVR with a Rotel 5 channel RMB 1095. Bottom line to me, I need the 'receiver/preamp' part of the system. Going direct from Transporter (or SB) to RMB 1095 would give me no flexibility for movies, remove both my surround sound option and the Velodyne sub. Maybe if your system is dedicated for music only, and you'll never feel you need a sub (need, did I say, I meant want), then you can forgo the preamp. But for me it's essential. Dan -- chinablues chinablues's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7955 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30661 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Preamp needed?
SteveC;163393 Wrote: * I have no feed for a sub. This could be added either by RCA Y-adapters on the Tp RCA output, or by drilling and mounting an extra RCA pass-through socket on each amp. Note that the balanced outputs are fixed level so I can't used these :( Isn't adding the extra RCA pass through in essence the same as the y adaptors, only inside the amp? I always wanted to make a sub-out for my sonic impact but thought a buffer stage would be required. (?) Re: the balanced outs, couldn't they be used (with xlrrca cables) by adjusting the level control of the sub? Note that I'm asking, not suggesting- I wouldn't want to break anyones Transporter! -- Skunk Skunk's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2685 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30661 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Preamp needed?
Interested in this thread as i am also trying to use the SB3 straight to poweramp to kep things simple/clean. Also tempted by a DAC as a sound improvement and noticed the Benchmark DAC has a analogue volume control which could double as attenuator? Anyone using SB3-DAC1-Poweramp-Speakers? Work well? thx -- robsob robsob's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=6851 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30661 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Preamp needed?
As Ben says, much of it is personal preference. However, you may also want to note the input sensitivity of the amp you are using. In my experience, running direct to an amp with a high input sensitivity will have better results than one with lower one. But like Ben, my personal preference is strongly in the camp of using a preamp. You mentioned Bryston...my one experience with Bryston involved running a Wadia cdp direct into a Bryston 4B ST driving Vandersteen 3A speakers...and adding a good preamp really improved the sound in a lot of ways IMHO...better tone, more meat to the sound, deeper soundstage, etc. -- PhilNYC Sonic Spirits Inc. http://www.sonicspirits.com PhilNYC's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=837 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30661 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Preamp needed?
wdrazek, you and I are on the exact same paths. At my house, my surround system is monopolized by the wife and kids so I too decided to build a dedicated 2-channel system in the living room for myself. I also wanted to keep it simple and clean with the SqueezeBox3 as the only source. It not only looks good, it sounds good as well. SB3 - PS Audio Trio A-100 - BW DM603 S3s. I see some folks find using a preamp as the volume control improves the sound. In the short term I'll probably stick with the system as-is, but long-term I've been considering the Lavry DA10 DAC as it's gotten great reviews for it's sound (I see Ben Diss in this thread has one, comments Ben?) and the volume control is analog but unfortunately, there's no remote available for it ... yet. -- USAudio USAudio's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8580 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30661 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Preamp needed?
Phil and Ben: Based on what I've read I think I agree with you on the preamp part. US: Ithink we are on the same track. From reading the posts here I am coming to the conclusion that an integrated amp is the way for me to go. As I understand it, the volume control in the SB3 happens prior to the digital stage which reduces resolution as you decrease the volume setting from the maximum point. Two options to counter this are a passive preamp (another box and set of wires) and an attenuator on the power amp which is kind of kludgy for the parlor. In my price range Naim, Creek and Bryston all make good options and are likely to win domestic approval for the living room due to their compact size. Next step is finding the amp/speaker combination that I want for the longer term. Here in Chicago I know one Bryston and one Naim dealer which limits the range of speakers I can hear them with. I'm a firm believer in the importance of the amp/speaker combination and in the end will probably buy the amp I like and find a speaker to match it. Most people do it the other way I think. -- wdrazek wdrazek's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8997 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30661 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Preamp needed?
The SB3/Lavry is a really good combo. The only thing I would point out is that you really should consider the Transporter. It could effectively replace the SB3/Lavry/preamp combo. Before plunking down money for a Lavry I'd demo a Transporter. -Ben -- Ben Diss SB3 - Lavry DA10 - BAT VK-31SE - Halo A21 - BW 803D Ben Diss's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4289 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30661 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Preamp needed?
Ben, do you think you would be tempted to go with an outboard DAC even with the Transporter? Surely it can be bettered that way. -- wdrazek wdrazek's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8997 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30661 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Preamp needed?
wdrazek;163360 Wrote: Ben, do you think you would be tempted to go with an outboard DAC even with the Transporter? Surely it can be bettered that way. wdrazek, IMHO the TP would likely NOT be bettered with an out board DAC. I have compared my TP with a TPlavryDAC10, Benchmark, SFDMARK2D2 and an AYRE . I sold my Lavry. To my ears in my system(RowlandWatt/Puppies) the TP was superior to the Lavry or Benchmark or SFD. I thought it was comparable to the Ayre in a brief comparison. (one evening...5 hours or so) I will have more time to compare it with the Ayre soon. Your aural experience may be different. That's the great thing about the 30 day trial, you can decide for yourself. -- tomjtx tomjtx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=7449 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30661 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Preamp needed?
They're are a lot of people who have this type of setup. I run my SqueezeBox into a DAC and then directly into an amp. In order to optimize this type of direct setup, you want to be able to keep the digital volume control close to the max setting. This may mean you will need some passive attenuation in between the SB3 and your amp. There are at least a few threads that have covered this topic, if you do a search for volume control and attenuator. Good luck! -- ezkcdude DIY projects page: http://www.ezdiyaudio.com System: SB3-EZDAC-MIT Terminator 2 interconnects-Endler Audio 24-step Attenuators (RCA-direct)-Parasound Halo A23 125W/ch amplifier-Speltz anti-cables-DIY 2-ways + Dayton Titanic 10 subwoofer He's not hi-fi, he's my stereo. ezkcdude's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2545 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30661 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
[SlimDevices: Audiophiles] Re: Preamp needed?
Do you need a preamp? Nope, you don't need one. You might want one though. Depends. I used to run without my BAT VK-31SE until I heard Phil's system with and without the preamp. Now you couldn't pry it from my cold dead fingers. I'd say to start with, but your money in the speakers and build from there. -Ben -- Ben Diss SB3 - Lavry DA10 - BAT VK-31SE - Halo A21 - BW 803D Ben Diss's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4289 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=30661 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/lists/listinfo/audiophiles
