Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0.Radiostation trouble
TT doesn;t work. just turn it off and ease your mind. TheOctavist's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97512 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0.Radiostation trouble
TheOctavist wrote: TT doesn;t work. just turn it off and ease your mind. funny, thought the OP said he was impressed with the changes TT3.0 made. Do you have a point to make or are you just being controversial ? Maybe it's your mind that needs to be eased. SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97512 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0.Radiostation trouble
This is a well-known issue. The problem lies with the combination of TT3.0 and transmissions of some internet radio stations. For example of past discussions, see http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?95144-Radio-Apps-Sound-Like-Chipmunks aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97512 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0.Radiostation trouble
Thank you. Is it only for low sample rate/quality stations or is it for higher quality stations too.Any fixes?other than using original firmware. I like the mods and it has improved the audio quality alot. kinku's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=58013 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97512 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0.Radiostation trouble
I think post #6 in the link I gave pretty much sums it up. As far as I know it's only an issue with low sample rate material. aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=97512 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
I'm sorry guys. This thread doesn't make any sense any more and is wasting way too much of our time. This thread is closed. mherger's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=50 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
We are going round in cycles, aren't we? - You always claim you (and mcr) - yet again - made the sound 100 times better. - Yet again you are using tweaks which actually are very unlikely to change anything at all (like applet loading priority, or triodes Applet influencing SPDIF) . - yet again we point out that with very high priority this all is just placebo and just in your head - and then we arrive at the point where mcr points out that also drinking wine suffers from placebo effects like the glass he is using. - then we suggest that painting your walls might have even more influence on your perceived Touches sound than all the Mods you are applying. - you refuse to paint your walls, we refuse to try the mods. - next mod arrives, start at step #1 Guess this sums it up pretty well. C: I'm not prepared to pursue my line of inquiry any longer as I think this is getting too silly! Sergeant-Major: Quite agree, quite agree, too silly, far too silly... My personal opinion by the way: triodes Applet wiped TT3, you are back at stock firmware. For you just the tweaking process alone is good enough placebo to enjoy your music even more. Which is perfectly fine by the way, one can be really jeleous about the way you are enjoying your music. Yet your descriptions don't convince me at all to follow your route. bluegaspode's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=31651 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
SBGK wrote: so the greatest advancement in sound quality for the Touch, that I have heard, doesn't raise any intellectual curiosity amongst the denizens of the premier Squeezebox community forum ? . no, because it is rubbish. if you used room correction or treatment and made those proclamations, I would personally listen. but these dubious claims about processes that can NOT POSSIBLY influence the SBT sq??? boring. maybe geoff kait or may belt would discuss with you. pink fish media is full of those types too. stereophile forum also TheOctavist's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
these are for ethernet connected digital out - install tt3.0 after
triode mod and then make these changes
I made these changes to make TT3.0 work with the triode settings, TT -b
won't work, so the buffer is set at 92790, just change that value for
the one you want where you see 92790 below.
cheers
change the loadPriority setting in
/usr/share/jive/applets/EnhancedDigitalOutput/loadPriority.lua from
loadPriority=0 to loadPriority=1
and
for file /etc/squeezeplay/userpath/settings/EnhancedDigitalOutput.lua
ensure the settings are as below
settings =
{autoKernelUpdate=true,bufferTime=92790,playbackDevice=TXRX,sampleSize=24,embeddedTTHack=false,cpuIdleFullspeed=true,periodCount=4,firstUse=false,}
file /etc/squeezeplay/userpath/settings/SqueezeboxFab4.lua change hw:0,0
to TXRX as below
settings =
{brightnessMinimal=1,alsaPlaybackPeriodCount=4,alsaSampleSize=24,alsaPlaybackDevice=TXRX,brightnessControl=manual,brightness=1,cleanReboot=false,alsaPlaybackBufferTime=92790,}
and
file /usr/share/jive/applets/SqueezeboxFab4/SqueezeboxFab4Meta.lua
change hw:0,0 to TXRX as below
function defaultSettings(meta)
return {
alsaPlaybackDevice = TXRX,
alsaPlaybackBufferTime = 92790,
alsaPlaybackPeriodCount = 4,
--JIVE2alsaEffectsDevice = plughw:2,0,
--JIVE2alsaEffectsBufferTime = 92790,
--JIVE2alsaEffectsPeriodCount = 4,
alsaSampleSize = 24,
}
and
-- fix buffer time
settings.alsaPlaybackBufferTime = 92790
--JIVE2settings.--JIVE2alsaEffectsBufferTime = 92790
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
The only problem with these triode + TT3.0 + SBGK mods is that it has enhanced the playback of 16/44.1 to such an extent that I need a display of the sample rate to let me know whether it should sound good as 16/44.1 can't possibly sound this good. Can't say that I could tell a well recorded 16/44.1 from 24/192 now which is a nice dilema to have. so it's no wonder the usb dacs sound good with the triode mods, the whole quality of the sound has been enhanced to a fantastic extent, the output from the sp/dif is at a level of sound quality I would not have believed a couple of days ago. It does sound a bit digital and rough without the TT3.0 and SBGK mods, but that would probably be ok in most systems, so if you don't like TT3.0 you should try the triode mods if you have sp/dif or toslink output. SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
SBGK wrote: The only problem with these triode + TT3.0 + SBGK mods is that it has enhanced the playback of 16/44.1 to such an extent that I need a display of the sample rate to let me know whether it should sound good as 16/44.1 can't possibly sound this good. Can't say that I could tell a well recorded 16/44.1 from 24/192 now which is a nice dilema to have. so it's no wonder the usb dacs sound good with the triode mods, the whole quality of the sound has been enhanced to a fantastic extent, the output from the sp/dif is at a level of sound quality I would not have believed a couple of days ago. It does sound a bit digital and rough without the TT3.0 and SBGK mods, but that would probably be ok in most systems, so if you don't like TT3.0 you should try the triode mods if you have sp/dif or toslink output. Can't wait to try this tonight. Just when I thought that I've reached the very limits of ultimate tweakorama with SBT, you guys managed to yet again push the envelope:) Gotta love digital technology -- breakthroughs keep coming for $0.00! magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
SBGK wrote: The only problem with these triode + TT3.0 + SBGK mods is that it has enhanced the playback of 16/44.1 to such an extent that I need a display of the sample rate to let me know whether it should sound good as 16/44.1 can't possibly sound this good. Can't say that I could tell a well recorded 16/44.1 from 24/192 now which is a nice dilema to have. so it's no wonder the usb dacs sound good with the triode mods, the whole quality of the sound has been enhanced to a fantastic extent, the output from the sp/dif is at a level of sound quality I would not have believed a couple of days ago. It does sound a bit digital and rough without the TT3.0 and SBGK mods, but that would probably be ok in most systems, so if you don't like TT3.0 you should try the triode mods if you have sp/dif or toslink output. OK, I managed to mess things up! I've installed the Triode applet, works fine, but after installing TT3.0 on top of it, and successfully executing the tt -i command, I now cannot access tt. When I type tt -s, I get the following error message: -sh: tt: not found What went wrong? magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
NoRoDa wrote: pski wrote: Tragic? Yes, indeed ;) well, it was John Swenson that was one of the earliest posters to identify that the sound was better with the screen off, but I suppose you are more knowledgeable than he is. SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
Is TT3 available from a non-Google location? CaptBeyond's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=55448 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
Currently uninstalled TT3 to make way for the 176 and 192khz out mod/app http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?94512-Announce-Enhanced-Digital-Output-app-USB-Dac-and-192k-Digital-Ouput Works well! Now for a compatible version of TT4(?) HumanMedia's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=44865 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
Deaf Cat wrote: Seem to be quite a few trying to soften the forward aggressive sound, with pc tweeks any pointers on making it a little more forward and aggressive? cheers using inguz eq boost 7, 8 , , 9 and 10 kHz by 42db/ Q of 1.0 while using steep filter to cut everything below 500 hz also knock down your walls and replace with glass. TheOctavist's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
magiccarpetride wrote: Would that be the factory in China? ?? NoRoDa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=49139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
TheOctavist wrote: using inguz eq boost 7, 8 , , 9 and 10 kHz by 42db/ Q of 1.0 while using steep filter to cut everything below 500 hz also knock down your walls and replace with glass. I was thinking forward and aggressive sound, as in, sound stage brought closer to me and not a gentle delicate sound, but more in ya face, bass too :-) So your thinking by turning up the treble, sound will get more agressive and move the vocals closer to me? - same sort of thing as reducing the resistor size to my tweeter..? Won't I just get louder delicate treble still positioned where it is in the soundstage? If I turn up the volume vocals don't get closer too me... Sorry if I'm missing the point, I can only think I will get more of what I already have.. Only way to try I guess... Cheers for the reply! Deaf Cat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=515 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
cfraser wrote: touchup: are you absolutely sure you're decoding the FLACs on your server? If I don't, *then* I can hear a diff, but otherwise: nope, sounds like the WAVs (which I also keep for everything). Edit: because of course, the server is sending the *exact* same data to the SBT in both cases when the FLACs are converted server side. FLACs are NOT converted to WAV/PCM in real time, they are converted well before the data is actually needed to be played. I'm using a Bryston DAC/pre/amps-Maggies (wired ethernet, linear PS, and very importantly the display *persistently* OFF, etc.). I can easily hear the diffs between the settings etc. that people post. This is a feature that I really like, because there's really nothing I can do to significantly change the sound out of my disc transports (Sonic Frontiers/Oppo), I get what they give into the same DAC. touchup's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=55167 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
touchup wrote: cfraser wrote: touchup: are you absolutely sure you're decoding the FLACs on your server? If I don't, *then* I can hear a diff, but otherwise: nope, sounds like the WAVs (which I also keep for everything). Edit: because of course, the server is sending the *exact* same data to the SBT in both cases when the FLACs are converted server side. FLACs are NOT converted to WAV/PCM in real time, they are converted well before the data is actually needed to be played. I'm using a Bryston DAC/pre/amps-Maggies (wired ethernet, linear PS, and very importantly the display *persistently* OFF, etc.). I can easily hear the diffs between the settings etc. that people post. This is a feature that I really like, because there's really nothing I can do to significantly change the sound out of my disc transports (Sonic Frontiers/Oppo), I get what they give into the same DAC. Because they take up less drive space, I initially had a lot of CD's ripped to FLACs, assuming they would sound the same as WAVs. FLAC files were decoded on the server. But I forgot to convert a few WAVs to FLAC prior to copying them to my network drive. That's how I found out that WAVs at least to my ears sound so consistently better. I cannot explain why. I know it shouldn't, but there it is. I really agree with the display off and have found that channel reversal by placing the back towards the speakers also sounds much better. At least turn off the display or the results are tragic. zz pski's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15574 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
pski wrote: touchup wrote: At least turn off the display or the results are tragic. zz Tragic? Yes, indeed ;) NoRoDa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=49139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
thought I would post this here as it is relevant to TT3.0
how about using an alsa buffer value of -1 ? this produces quite a
difference to the sound - Alsa uses a different method to calculate the
period and buffer size, I think it is worth trying, sound is a bit more
out of the speakers, the bass and detail are excellent and it is quite
relaxing, surprising really. probably one of the best buffer setting I
have found. again it was by accident I tried a value of 99 and
it overloaded the parameter and jive_alsa started with a buffer of -1, I
liked the sound and thought hmm, that sounds ok.
here is the result of ps -eo pid,tid,class,pri,rtprio,cmd | sort -nrk 4
769 769 FF 134 94 jive_alsa -d hw:0,0 -c default -b -1 -p 2 -s
24 -f 3
see the -b has a -1 value next to it.
just replace the buffer section in the TT file with this and type TT -b
-1 to try this new setting, don't worry I have tested it and you can
change the buffer back eg TT -b 2
buffer () {
DEFBUF=2
if [ `grep $DEFBUF $FILE2` != ] ; then
ACTBUF=$DEFBUF
else
ACTBUF=`ps -edf | grep jive_alsa | grep \-b [-1-9][-1-9]* | sed -e
's/.*-b \(.*\)\-p\(.*\)/\1/g' | sed -e 's/ //g'`
fi
echo $ACTBUF | grep '[-1-9]\{1,8\}' || { echo Problems finding
current buffer value! ; exit 1 ; } ;
#echo $1 | grep '[0-9]\{4,5\}'
#if [ $? -eq 0 ] ; then
# if [ $1 -gt $MAXBUF -o $1 -lt $MINBUF ] ; then
# echo Input out of buffer-range of $MINBUF-$MAXBUF
# exit 1
# fi
#else
# echo Input out of buffer-range of $MINBUF-$MAXBUF
# exit 1
#fi
killproc ## processes must be killed here, because buffer value read
from process
sed -i s#$ACTBUF#$1#g $FILE1 $FILE2 /dev/null
echo **Buffer size configuration changed
}
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Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
touchup wrote: That's how I found out that WAVs at least to my ears sound so consistently better. I cannot explain why. I know it shouldn't, but there it is. Don't worry, it drives me nuts what some changes do. I can't explain them either, the craziest (to me) being the size of the ALSA buffer which can vary from totally unlistenable to great with sometimes just a small change, with everything else staying the same. It looks like SBGK has been looking into that a lot lately... It takes me minutes to try lots of these things. Trivial. Keep what works, toss what doesn't, same as I do for everything else... cfraser's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=48869 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
lake_eleven wrote: Looks like you guys have done it TheOctavist and NoRoDa, you guys dont need Squeezebox anymore, but you need a squeezed box.ahahaha Well, I've tried to listen without seeing to a factory SBT vs a modded one with TT3.0 and got the guts to tell about it ;) Rgds SBT | Teddy Pardo TTouch | Rega DAC | Audionet SAM V2 | Sonus Faber Domus Grand Piano | NoRoDa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=49139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
NoRoDa wrote: Well, I've tried to listen without seeing to a factory SBT vs a modded one with TT3.0 and got the guts to tell about it ;) Rgds Don't know about your setup, I could tell the difference between them, But which one sounds better is a different story!. lake_eleven's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=48979 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
lake_eleven wrote: Don't know about your setup, I could tell the difference between them, But which one sounds better is a different story!. Me too, could hear a difference in blind tests. The factory SBT was preferred every time. Regards NoRoDa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=49139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
Seem to be quite a few trying to soften the forward aggressive sound, with pc tweeks any pointers on making it a little more forward and aggressive? cheers Deaf Cat's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=515 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
lake_eleven wrote: Don't know about your setup, I could tell the difference between them, But which one sounds better is a different story!. Enjoy the SBT for what it is - a bargain n/w streamer, that plays your music. Do TT mods make a difference? MAYBE. Depends on so many factors that are unique to each listening environment, and the listeners hearing ability etc. etc. etc. And not forgetting propensity to placebo effect. Try SBGK mods as well, cos he clearly believes he's got an edge over TT X.x. Enjoy the flight thru propellor-head space. I'm trialling a Linn set up this weekend at home against the SBT - will report back. pandasharka's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=45806 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
NoRoDa wrote: Me too, could hear a difference in blind tests. The factory SBT was preferred every time. Would that be the factory in China? magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
magiccarpetride wrote: Would that be the factory in China? nope, the one close to your lane. lake_eleven's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=48979 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
Jeff Flowerday;698972 Wrote: That's why lots of us run the stock Logitech priorities with the rest of TT 3.0 mods. Just 'cause you enjoy the loss of the remote, like to have the screen switched off and feel the need to drill a hole in the wall for the ethernet cable? :D :D The TT3.0 doesn't improve the sound, so why bother? Regards -- NoRoDa NoRoDa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=49139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
SBGK;698976 Wrote: I would agree, TT3.0 sounds pretty awful in my system as well, I found it unlistenable. But, things have moved on, the priority settings above are a vast improvement on TT3.0 and the Touch default settings, so maybe you need to have a triple blind test which include these settings. You may want to try commenting out the contents of the kernel and tcp section in the TT file as well as there are changes in there that also cause the aggressive forward sound. At the end of the day we are just adjusting settings in a computer to give the audio related processes etc the best priorities for what it has to do and also reducing noise. TT3.0 was an attempt to do that which made the sound too aggressive and forward, maybe it sounded ok in Soundcheck's system, but there are ways to tame it and retain the benefits. I would say your donation to Soundcheck was still worth it, you just need to realise that it wasn't the finished article. I have it tuned pretty optimally and the sound is totally transformed from the Touch factory settings. LOL! Totally transformed sound? A triple blind test, is that a double blind test using records from three blind mice? [image: http://www.nursery-rhymes.info/Three-Blind-Mice-nursery-rhymes.gif] I almost tried your final settings posted right after your return from beeing banned. But before i managed to do it, you posted a new final settings . I did my blind testing and found my (surprising) answers. Maybe you should try it too? Regards -- NoRoDa NoRoDa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=49139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
darrell;698981 Wrote: There seems to be a misunderstanding here - A double blind test is not so called because you are testing 2 alternatives. It is double blind because neither the person or persons taking part in the test, nor the organiser of the test know which of the alternatives is in play at any one time. For example, when testing drugs, neither the patient nor the doctor administering the treatment know whether they are dealing with the real thing or the placebo. The purpose is to eliminate involuntary verbal and non-verbal clues being picked up by the patient. Just to be clear, the testing I participated in yesterday wasn't double blind or very scientific in any way. We were two persons, and one of us did the switcing between the two SBTs. We took turns listening. After five in a row with the factory SBT connected to WLAN as the best sounding it was clear enough for us. Others may need more proof, and I won't loose any sleep if people still thinks that TT3.0 makes an improvement in their systems :) Regards -- NoRoDa NoRoDa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=49139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
NoRoDa;699010 Wrote: Just 'cause you enjoy the loss of the remote, like to have the screen switched off and feel the need to drill a hole in the wall for the ethernet cable? :D :D The TT3.0 doesn't improve the sound, so why bother? Regards I leave IR on actually and could use my $70 wireless bridge if I wasn't wired already. You haven't done your test with the default priorites so how do you know? You are discounting all the mods on your dislike of the default TT 3 priorities which are what makes it harsh over analytical and bright. Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk -- Jeff Flowerday Jeff Flowerday's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15883 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
NoRoDa;698970 Wrote: Our problem? The best sound in the house on every test came from the wireless connected factory default SBT! So yes, there is a difference when implementing TT3.0, it makes the SBT sound worse*. Not surprising. Mods that make things sound -different- aren't always beneficial. And the majority of modifications are done pretty randomly, with the modder just assuming that X or Y will sound better. -- JJZolx JJZolx's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
Jeff Flowerday;699032 Wrote: I leave IR on actually and could use my $70 wireless bridge if I wasn't wired already. You haven't done your test with the default priorites so how do you know? You are discounting all the mods on your dislike of the default TT 3 priorities which are what makes it harsh over analytical and bright. IR and no screen? How is that useful? Two SBTs, two Teddy PSUs Setup repeated: 1 - Factory SBT, WLAN, Teddy Pardo PSU 2 - HWmod SBT w/TT3.0 default prio and buffer 3400 tt -v tt -k, wired LAN, Teddy Pardo PSU ...and you're talkin' prio settings? All the truths are IMO proven wrong. And, yes I have tried different prio settings and buffer settings. They don't totally transform the sound from the SBT ;) Close your eyes and listen, I tried it and I was surprised, cool experience! Regards -- NoRoDa NoRoDa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=49139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
SBGK;698976 Wrote: so maybe you need to have a triple blind test which include these settings. Of course, that's what all the naysayers have been missing. To really detect the effects of these revolutionary mods one needs an equally revolutionary test method: triple blind. Please, do tell exactly how that works -- aubuti aubuti's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=2074 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
aubuti;699050 Wrote: of course, that's what all the naysayers have been missing. To really detect the effects of these revolutionary mods one needs an equally revolutionary test method: Triple blind. Please, do tell exactly how that works lol! -- NoRoDa NoRoDa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=49139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
NoRoDa;699044 Wrote: IR and no screen? How is that useful? I have gadgets to browse the music library. I like hitting pause quickly on my harmony remote to answer the phone/door or run to the beer fridge. The screen on the touch is too small from a large distance to be useful at all. Our opinions on the priorities will just be different I guess. Just this weekend I backed TT 3.0 off to upgrade the firmware on my touch. I went back and forth between my touch and my PC running JRiver with a M2Tech Hiface. The PC was my constant and a quick switch back and forth between each revealed the changes for good or worst that TT 3.0 did to the touch. I always preferred the sound from the PC but the TT 3.0 + Logitech priorities was the closest I could get the Touch to it. Of course everyone else's mileage will vary each DAC responds differently. -- Jeff Flowerday Jeff Flowerday's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15883 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
NoRoDa;698970 Wrote: Try harder ;) Today I participated in a blind test between two SBTs, a true eye-opener!! Differences? Hell yeah, a WLAN factory default SBT with Teddy PSU does sound different from a wired-LAN HWmod TT3.0 default SBT with Teddy PSU! We took turns listening while the other person switched between the players. Both of us did pick the best sound in the house on the same player every time. Our problem? The best sound in the house on every test came from the wireless connected factory default SBT! So yes, there is a difference when implementing TT3.0, it makes the SBT sound worse*. We did more tests too, on the HWmod and the Teddy PSU. Blind testing the fun'n'easy way. This is one, and this is the other, wich one do you like the most? *- YMMV of course. You may actually enjoy the brighter, sharper, more edgy and mechanical sound of TT3.0 I donated $$$ to soundcheck, I heard TT3.0 sound better than stock, I heard differences when changing priority setting, and now I must admit I was wrong. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! :D Regards Try even harder! There could not be any differences in the sound quality between two SBTs. It's just not scientifically possible. You guys are merely imagining things. How can Teddy PSU realistically make any difference? Explain that if you can! -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
magiccarpetride;699086 Wrote: Try even harder! There could not be any differences in the sound quality between two SBTs. It's just not scientifically possible. You guys are merely imagining things. How can Teddy PSU realistically make any difference? Explain that if you can! Your two personalities really should have different usernames in here ;) The thrill of blind testing differences is that you don't have to think about things like is it possible or the bias in your brain telling you what to hear when you know what is playing. Give it a shot :) -- NoRoDa NoRoDa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=49139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
NoRoDa;699102 Wrote: Your two personalities really should have different usernames in here ;) The thrill of blind testing differences is that you don't have to think about things like is it possible or the bias in your brain telling you what to hear when you know what is playing. Give it a shot :) While I agree with you, I think it really gets quite tricky to conduct a valid blind test. There are so many cues hanging in the air during the execution of the tests, many of which may even be subliminal, and the test subjects seem very good at picking those cues and incorporating them into their 'findings'. I think only a very carefully engineered and executed double-blind test, conducted by trained personnel under strictly controlled conditions, could really give us the true picture. What are the odds that anyone on this forum could ever afford to perform such tests? -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
It doesn't have to be valid for anyone but yourself now, does it? For me it's the what do I prefer that is important. Not what anyone else might believe. ;) I now know that i prefer my SBT in it's original condition, with my Teddy Pardo PSU connected. IMO the TT3.0 does make a change, it's just not an improvement Regards -- NoRoDa NoRoDa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=49139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
NoRoDa;699122 Wrote: It doesn't have to be valid for anyone but yourself now, does it? For me it's the what do I prefer that is important. Not what anyone else might believe. ;) I now know that i prefer my SBT in it's original condition, with my Teddy Pardo PSU connected. IMO the TT3.0 does make a change, it's just not an improvement Regards I'm in the same camp, but sometimes I also rely on others' findings. But we all have different tastes, some like softer sound, some like more aggressive in-your-face sound. People are impossible to please. -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
1. Post results of sweep tests with calibrated microphones and static microphones and speakers (and amps, and everything else) that indicate improvement. 2. Admit digital is beyond your comprehension. 3. Bask in glory for your contributions. Which of these is LEAST likely? 1. p -- pski real stereo doesn't just wake the neighbors, it -enrages- them.. It is truly the Golden Age of Wireless pski's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15574 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
TheOctavist;698714 Wrote: more veiled attacks from MCR I see. I tried installing TT 3.0 again today. listened all day. i cant hear any difference, but I think this is only because they dont exist and can't exist in our universe governed by our laws of physics, thermodynamics, electricity, IT, etc.. Maybe one day Steven hawking will open a wormhole and ill return last week talking about how cool TT 3.0 is in the alternate dimension well, plenty people on the interweb report hearing differences, so maybe it is your setup or your hearing. Don't buy any more hi-fi or any music above mp3 quality as you will be wasting your money. it is quite easy to monitor what the changes are doing inside the touch and also to hear the changes in the sound. Don't worry if you cannot hear a difference (Soundcheck said it was not for everyone and there are some quite onerous pre-requisites that should be implemented before you implement TT3.0, suppose you ignored those), the laws of physics are not broken and it doesn't mean your any less of a man. No need to repeatedly post here that you cannot hear any difference, we believe you. -- SBGK SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
PIDJIVEALSA=`pidof jive_alsa` #def: 45 #PIDJIVE=`pidof jive` #def: - PIDSIRQTASKLET0=`pidof sirq-tasklet/0` #def: 89 interrupt handler - should be higher then interrupts PIDSIRQHRTIMER=`pidof sirq-hrtimer/0` #def: 40 htimer of rtkernel - should be also very high PIDWATCHDOG=`pidof watchdog/0` #def: 99 PIDLOADAVG=`pidof loadavg` #def: 50 PIDOFPSXCPUTMR=`pidof posixcputmr/0` #def: 98 PIDIRQ47=`pidof IRQ-47` #def: 40 SPDIF -- any impact? PIDIRQ14=`pidof IRQ-14` #def: 40 PIDIRQ37=`pidof IRQ-37` #def: 40 USB can be put very low PIDIRQ34=`pidof IRQ-34` #def: 90 dma for processor ? PIDSIRNETTX=`pidof sirq-net-tx/0` #def: 40 network transmit PIDSIRNETRX=`pidof sirq-net-rx/0` #def: 40 network receive #def sched_other PIDKSWP=`pidof kswapd0` PIDKMMC=`pidof kmmcd` PIDKHUB=`pidof khubd` PIDKBLK=`pidof kblockd/0` PIDKHLP=`pidof khelper` PIDDSCH=`pidof desched/0` PIDKTHR=`pidof kthreadd` PIDUNIO=`pidof unionfs_siod/0` ##def 40 PIDSIRQH=`pidof sirq-high/0` PIDSIRQT=`pidof sirq-timer/0` PIDSIRQB=`pidof sirq-block/0` PIDSIRQS=`pidof sirq-sched/0` PIDSIRQR=`pidof sirq-rcu/0` PIDIRQ10=`pidof IRQ-10` PIDIRQ42=`pidof IRQ-42` PIDIRQ41=`pidof IRQ-41` PIDIRQ22=`pidof IRQ-22` PIDIRQ57=`pidof IRQ-57` PIDIRQ29=`pidof IRQ-29` PIDIRQ33=`pidof IRQ-33` PIDIRQ17=`pidof IRQ-17` PIDIRQ123=`pidof IRQ-123` PIDIRQ122=`pidof IRQ-122` PIDIRQ7=`pidof IRQ-7` PIDIRQ102=`pidof IRQ-102` PIDIRQ8=`pidof IRQ-8` PIDIRQ11=`pidof IRQ-11` PIDIRQ12=`pidof IRQ-12` PIDIRQ25=`pidof IRQ-25` PIDIRQ45=`pidof IRQ-45` PRIOJIVEALSA=94 #PRIOJIVE=0 PRIOSIRQTASKLET0=97 PRIOSIRQHRTIMER=96 PRIOWATCHDOG=0 PRIOLOADAVG=95 PRIODOFPSXCPUTMR=99 PRIOIRQ47=36 PRIOIRQ14=0 PRIOIRQ37=0 PRIOIRQ34=98 PRIOSIRNETTX=91 PRIOSIRNETRX=91 PRIOSIRQH=89 PRIOSIRQT=92 PRIOSIRQB=89 PRIOSIRQS=89 PRIOSIRQR=89 PRIOIRQ10=0 PRIOIRQ42=90 PRIOIRQ41=0 PRIOIRQ22=0 PRIOIRQ57=90 PRIOIRQ29=90 PRIOIRQ33=90 PRIOIRQ17=0 PRIOIRQ123=0 PRIOIRQ122=0 PRIOIRQ7=90 PRIOIRQ102=0 PRIOIRQ8=0 PRIOIRQ11=0 PRIOIRQ12=0 PRIOIRQ25=93 PRIOIRQ45=90 echo PID - Jive-Alsa: $PIDJIVEALSA $LOG2 echo PRIO: $PRIOJIVEALSA $LOG2 chrt -f -p $PRIOJIVEALSA $PIDJIVEALSA $LOG2 21 #chrt -f -p $PRIOJIVE $PIDJIVE /dev/null 21 chrt -f -p $PRIOSIRQTASKLET0 $PIDSIRQTASKLET0 /dev/null 21 chrt -f -p $PRIOSIRQHRTIMER $PIDSIRQHRTIMER /dev/null 21 chrt -o -p $PRIOWATCHDOG $PIDWATCHDOG /dev/null 21 chrt -f -p $PRIOLOADAVG $PIDLOADAVG /dev/null 21 chrt -f -p $PRIODOFPSXCPUTMR $PIDOFPSXCPUTMR /dev/null 21 chrt -f -p $PRIOIRQ47 $PIDIRQ47 /dev/null 21 chrt -o -p $PRIOIRQ14 $PIDIRQ14 /dev/null 21 chrt -o -p $PRIOIRQ37 $PIDIRQ37 /dev/null 21 chrt -f -p $PRIOIRQ34 $PIDIRQ34 /dev/null 21 chrt -f -p $PRIOSIRNETTX $PIDSIRNETTX /dev/null 21 chrt -f -p $PRIOSIRNETRX $PIDSIRNETRX /dev/null 21 chrt -f -p $PRIOSIRQH $PIDSIRQH /dev/null 21 chrt -f -p $PRIOSIRQT $PIDSIRQT /dev/null 21 chrt -f -p $PRIOSIRQB $PIDSIRQB /dev/null 21 chrt -f -p $PRIOSIRQS $PIDSIRQS /dev/null 21 chrt -f -p $PRIOSIRQR $PIDSIRQR /dev/null 21 chrt -o -p $PRIOIRQ10 $PIDIRQ10 /dev/null 21 chrt -f -p $PRIOIRQ42 $PIDIRQ42 /dev/null 21 chrt -o -p $PRIOIRQ41 $PIDIRQ41 /dev/null 21 chrt -o -p $PRIOIRQ22 $PIDIRQ22 /dev/null 21 chrt -f -p $PRIOIRQ57 $PIDIRQ57 /dev/null 21 chrt -f -p $PRIOIRQ29 $PIDIRQ29 /dev/null 21 chrt -f -p $PRIOIRQ33 $PIDIRQ33 /dev/null 21 chrt -o -p $PRIOIRQ17 $PIDIRQ17 /dev/null 21 chrt -o -p $PRIOIRQ123 $PIDIRQ123 /dev/null 21 chrt -o -p $PRIOIRQ122 $PIDIRQ122 /dev/null 21 chrt -f -p $PRIOIRQ7 $PIDIRQ7 /dev/null 21 chrt -o -p $PRIOIRQ102 $PIDIRQ102 /dev/null 21 chrt -o -p $PRIOIRQ8 $PIDIRQ8 /dev/null 21 chrt -o -p $PRIOIRQ11 $PIDIRQ11 /dev/null 21 chrt -o -p $PRIOIRQ12 $PIDIRQ12 /dev/null 21 chrt -f -p $PRIOIRQ25 $PIDIRQ25 /dev/null 21 chrt -f -p $PRIOIRQ45 $PIDIRQ45 /dev/null 21 chrt -f -p 1 $PIDKSWP /dev/null 21 chrt -f -p 1 $PIDKMMC /dev/null 21 chrt -f -p 1 $PIDKHUB /dev/null 21 chrt -f -p 1 $PIDKBLK /dev/null 21 chrt -f -p 1 $PIDKHLP /dev/null 21 chrt -f -p 1 $PIDDSCH /dev/null 21 chrt -f -p 1 $PIDKTHR /dev/null 21 chrt -f -p 1 $PIDUNIO /dev/null 21 } -- SBGK SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
magiccarpetride;698667 Wrote: Perhaps a better analogy would be the difference in enjoying someone playing a red Les Paul vs that same person playing a gold top Les Paul. Both guitars should sound pretty much the same, but it's that darn difference in colors that can influence how the music comes across. In exactly the same way as the TT mods.beauty in the eye of the beholder. -- DaveWr DaveWr's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=9331 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
DaveWr;698858 Wrote: In exactly the same way as the TT mods.beauty in the eye of the beholder. Aye, Captain Obvious! -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
TheOctavist;698714 Wrote: I tried installing TT 3.0 again today. listened all day. i cant hear any difference, but I think this is only because they dont exist and can't exist in our universe governed by our laws of physics, thermodynamics, electricity, IT, etc.. Try harder ;) Today I participated in a blind test between two SBTs, a true eye-opener!! Differences? Hell yeah, a WLAN factory default SBT with Teddy PSU does sound different from a wired-LAN HWmod TT3.0 default SBT with Teddy PSU! We took turns listening while the other person switched between the players. Both of us did pick the best sound in the house on the same player every time. Our problem? The best sound in the house on every test came from the wireless connected factory default SBT! So yes, there is a difference when implementing TT3.0, it makes the SBT sound worse*. We did more tests too, on the HWmod and the Teddy PSU. Blind testing the fun'n'easy way. This is one, and this is the other, wich one do you like the most? *- YMMV of course. You may actually enjoy the brighter, sharper, more edgy and mechanical sound of TT3.0 I donated $$$ to soundcheck, I heard TT3.0 sound better than stock, I heard differences when changing priority setting, and now I must admit I was wrong. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! :D Regards -- NoRoDa NoRoDa's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=49139 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
NoRoDa;698970 Wrote: Try harder ;) Today I participated in a blind test between two SBTs, a true eye-opener!! Differences? Hell yeah, a WLAN factory default SBT with Teddy PSU does sound different from a wired-LAN HWmod TT3.0 default SBT with Teddy PSU! We took turns listening while the other person switched between the players. Both of us did pick the best sound in the house on the same player every time. Our problem? The best sound in the house on every test came from the wireless connected factory default SBT! So yes, there is a difference when implementing TT3.0, it makes the SBT sound worse*. We did more tests too, on the HWmod and the Teddy PSU. Blind testing the fun'n'easy way. This is one, and this is the other, wich one do you like the most? *- YMMV of course. You may actually enjoy the brighter, sharper, more edgy and mechanical sound of TT3.0 I donated $$$ to soundcheck, I heard TT3.0 sound better than stock, I heard differences when changing priority setting, and now I must admit I was wrong. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! :D Regards That's why lots of us run the stock Logitech priorities with the rest of TT 3.0 mods. -- Jeff Flowerday Jeff Flowerday's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=15883 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
NoRoDa;698970 Wrote: Try harder ;) Today I participated in a blind test between two SBTs, a true eye-opener!! Differences? Hell yeah, a WLAN factory default SBT with Teddy PSU does sound different from a wired-LAN HWmod TT3.0 default SBT with Teddy PSU! We took turns listening while the other person switched between the players. Both of us did pick the best sound in the house on the same player every time. Our problem? The best sound in the house on every test came from the wireless connected factory default SBT! So yes, there is a difference when implementing TT3.0, it makes the SBT sound worse*. We did more tests too, on the HWmod and the Teddy PSU. Blind testing the fun'n'easy way. This is one, and this is the other, wich one do you like the most? *- YMMV of course. You may actually enjoy the brighter, sharper, more edgy and mechanical sound of TT3.0 I donated $$$ to soundcheck, I heard TT3.0 sound better than stock, I heard differences when changing priority setting, and now I must admit I was wrong. If it ain't broke, don't fix it! :D Regards I would agree, TT3.0 sounds pretty awful in my system as well, I found it unlistenable. But, things have moved on, the priority settings above are a vast improvement on TT3.0 and the Touch default settings, so maybe you need to have a triple blind test which include these settings. You may want to try commenting out the contents of the kernel and tcp section in the TT file as well as there are changes in there that also cause the aggressive forward sound. At the end of the day we are just adjusting settings in a computer to give the audio related processes etc the best priorities for what it has to do and also reducing noise. TT3.0 was an attempt to do that which made the sound too aggressive and forward, maybe it sounded ok in Soundcheck's system, but there are ways to tame it and retain the benefits. I would say your donation to Soundcheck was still worth it, you just need to realise that it wasn't the finished article. I have it tuned pretty optimally and the sound is totally transformed from the Touch factory settings. -- SBGK SBGK's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52003 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
SBGK;698853 Wrote: well, plenty people on the interweb report hearing differences, so maybe it is your setup or your hearing. Don't buy any more hi-fi or any music above mp3 quality as you will be wasting your money. it is quite easy to monitor what the changes are doing inside the touch and also to hear the changes in the sound. Don't worry if you cannot hear a difference (Soundcheck said it was not for everyone and there are some quite onerous pre-requisites that should be implemented before you implement TT3.0, suppose you ignored those), the laws of physics are not broken and it doesn't mean your any less of a man. No need to repeatedly post here that you cannot hear any difference, we believe you. nah, i did everything he said do. my system is extremely resolving(google the speaks if youd like) and my hearing is excellent(ill be glad to post the audiology graphs..). the stuff just doesn't work. because it can't. and no, no laws of physics are broken, which is why these things dont work. :) -- TheOctavist VortexboxSBT(stock)Forssell MDAC-2Klein and Hummell 0300D Sota Sapphire/Lyra KleosBespoke Valve Phono StageMastersound Due VentiLink Audio K100 TheOctavist's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
SBGK;698976 Wrote: ...a triple blind test which include these settings. There seems to be a misunderstanding here - A double blind test is not so called because you are testing 2 alternatives. It is double blind because neither the person or persons taking part in the test, nor the organiser of the test know which of the alternatives is in play at any one time. For example, when testing drugs, neither the patient nor the doctor administering the treatment know whether they are dealing with the real thing or the placebo. The purpose is to eliminate involuntary verbal and non-verbal clues being picked up by the patient. -- darrell darrell's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=13460 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
more veiled attacks from MCR I see. I tried installing TT 3.0 again today. listened all day. i cant hear any difference, but I think this is only because they dont exist and can't exist in our universe governed by our laws of physics, thermodynamics, electricity, IT, etc.. Maybe one day Steven hawking will open a wormhole and ill be back last week talking about how cool TT 3.0 is in the alternate dimension -- TheOctavist VortexboxSBT(stock)Forssell MDAC-2Klein and Hummell 0300D Sota Sapphire/Lyra KleosBespoke Valve Phono StageMastersound Due VentiLink Audio K100 TheOctavist's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=52700 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
HumanMedia;698447 Wrote: Not completely true. In the tt sbt settings try raising the tcp buffers without a corresponding alsa priority increase - it will make the sound like a 1950s radio, you can also add clicks, pops and scratches which do not correct themselves over time. Choosing mismatched priorities can add any number of artifacts and strange distortions in with the still audible music. Changing the priorites can change, improve or worsen the added noise. You can even make it so bad that the audio becomes a low volume chugging well before the Dac loses lock. You can also make smaller priority mismatches which don't seem to add anything you can consciously put your finger on, but are uncomfortable and fatiguing. But you are right that within proper operating parameters that the digital steam should be fine. IMO the biggest things these tweaks do is put the internal switching power feeds into different states some of which create less electrical noise. Like putting a car in first gear creates more steady high-pitched acoustic noise, or putting it into 3rd gear makes lower frequency noise which has larger frequency modulations. So this raises one of my bigger questions. If you are correct in that changing the priorities and buffer sizes can actually exact the sorts of changes you've described (and I've definitely heard the negative case), then does it logically follow that--using the technical term here---fiddling around with various combinations of the priorites and buffer settings could, in theory, change the sound quality positively from the stock Logitech settings? If the answer is yes, this would lead one to seriously examine the notion that: 1. These priority and buffer settings do, in fact, have a bearing on overall sound quality and 2. If point #1 is true, then is it possible that the Logitech engineers/designers had settled on a combination of settings that was good, but perhaps not the very best. This is, of course, what both Soundcheck and SBGK argue---that the sound quality can be improved by changing these parameters around. But creating artifacts and strange noises only demonstrates that negative consequences existalbeit that change does, in fact, occur. Those artifacts and distortions are easy to hear. However, there has yet to be an objective demonstration case made that tweaking these settings can actually go, in the postive sense, beyond what Logitech has already given us. I wish the that 1.) somebody could explain WHY changing the buffer sizes and priority settings might genuinely influence sound quality as it moves from Touch-to-dac-to amp or Touch-to-amp, and 2.)If there is an explanation that passes the plausibility test, can we do some listening tests to verify that, aside from distortion and artifact, different settings do, in fact, produce different results. I would love to hear from someone within Logitech that was involved in the testing and choosing of these priority/buffer combinations who might assist in enlightening us as to how the values of these parameters interact with each other and whether or not there is any plausibility to the theory that, given enough time, someone could come up with a combination that resulted in a sound quality improvement. Michael, Andyg??? -- rgro Rg System information Main: PS Audio Quintet Vortexbox Teddy Pardo PS, Touch (wired) Toslink Rega DAC LFD LE IV Signature amp VA Mozart Grands REL Acoustics R305. Home Theatre: Duet/SBR (Wired) Pioneer VSX 919 Energy Take 5 Classic 5.1. SBS 7.7.2 r33908 on a Vortexbox Appliance, V 2.0, Touch: FW 7.7.1 r9558. Duet: FW 77. rgro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
rgro;698486 Wrote: But creating artifacts and strange noises only demonstrates that negative consequences exist A likely explanation of this is that the stock SBT, working within it's correct operational parameters, delivers the correct stream of 1s and 0s to the DAC, and that changing the priorities etc, as described by HumanMedia, merely takes the SBT outside its correct operational parameters, such that the stream of 1s and 0s is no longer correct - maybe some bits get missed. There is evidence that the stock SBT DOES deliver the correct stream, and audible artifacts following extreme tweaks seem to support this possible explanation. -- chill chill's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=10839 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
chill;698488 Wrote: A likely explanation of this is that the stock SBT, working within it's correct operational parameters, delivers the correct stream of 1s and 0s to the DAC, and that changing the priorities etc, as described by HumanMedia, merely takes the SBT outside its correct operational parameters, such that the stream of 1s and 0s is no longer correct - maybe some bits get missed. There is evidence that the stock SBT DOES deliver the correct stream, and audible artifacts following extreme tweaks seem to support this possible explanation. To verify bit perfectness try a DTS or AC3 stream embedded in a flac or wav file or possibly a hdcd encoded flac or wav if you dac suports that . This should not stop working . As bit perfectness is expected and pretty standard re dvd ,the dts or ac3 test case, a HT reciever or processor have tolerance for it so it's losses lock completely and we have white noise all ver again. -- Mnyb Main hifi: Touch + CIA PS +MeridianG68J MeridianHD621 MeridianG98DH 2 x MeridianDSP5200 MeridianDSP5200HC 2 xMeridianDSP3100 +Rel Stadium 3 sub. Bedroom/Office: Boom Kitchen: Touch + powered Fostex PM0.4 Misc use: Radio (with battery) iPad1 with iPengHD SqueezePad (in storage SB3, reciever ,controller ) http://people.xiph.org/~xiphmont/demo/neil-young.html Mnyb's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=4143 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
HumanMedia;698447 Wrote: Not completely true. In the tt sbt settings try raising the tcp buffers without a corresponding alsa priority increase - it will make the sound like a 1950s radio, you can also add clicks, pops and scratches which do not correct themselves over time. Choosing mismatched priorities can add any number of artifacts and strange distortions in with the still audible music. Changing the priorites can change, improve or worsen the added noise. You can even make it so bad that the audio becomes a low volume chugging well before the Dac loses lock. You can also make smaller priority mismatches which don't seem to add anything you can consciously put your finger on, but are uncomfortable and fatiguing. But you are right that within proper operating parameters that the digital steam should be fine. IMO the biggest things these tweaks do is put the internal switching power feeds into different states some of which create less electrical noise. Like putting a car in first gear creates more steady high-pitched acoustic noise, or putting it into 3rd gear makes lower frequency noise which has larger frequency modulations. Whatever this is doing, it is NOT altering the data content (bit values) of the Bitstream. Digital audio simply doesn't work like that. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
chill;698488 Wrote: A likely explanation of this is that the stock SBT, working within it's correct operational parameters, delivers the correct stream of 1s and 0s to the DAC, and that changing the priorities etc, as described by HumanMedia, merely takes the SBT outside its correct operational parameters, such that the stream of 1s and 0s is no longer correct - maybe some bits get missed. There is evidence that the stock SBT DOES deliver the correct stream, and audible artifacts following extreme tweaks seem to support this possible explanation. There's more than evidence, there is irrefutable proof. DTS and HDCD decoded playback is impossible with bitstream corruption. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
Phil Leigh;698494 Wrote: Whatever this is doing, it is NOT altering the data content (bit values) of the Bitstream. Digital audio simply doesn't work like that. It might be causing delays or disturbances in the throughput of the data, causing loss of clock sync in the DAC (scratching noises). That's just adding intolerable distortion to the replay chain! Agree completely. And what I think this indicates is that processes do have a bearing on signal timing, so what is the processing state that gives optimal timing? Is it Logitech stock or something else? -- HumanMedia HumanMedia's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=44865 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
Phil Leigh;698326 Wrote: Merely measure them. Could not hear any difference - I did try - even with my super wonderful headphones! I have an odd question for you, and I'm asking it just for future reference: was there ever a change, or an event that you've introduced into your audio system that resulted in you actually hearing the differences? If yes, could you please describe the change? -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
rgro;698486 Wrote: 1. These priority and buffer settings do, in fact, have a bearing on overall sound quality and 2. If point #1 is true, then is it possible that the Logitech engineers/designers had settled on a combination of settings that was good, but perhaps not the very best. If you go back and re-read discussions pertaining to many attempts to improve SBT, you will see that, overall, Logitech engineers/designers etc. seem to be firmly standing the ground that such a thing is a pathetic pipe dream. In other words, according to the Logitech marketing, it is not theoretically possible to improve upon the sound quality of Logitech Squeezebox Touch. The grassroots community that is not beholden by the vendor's agenda appears to think differently. Guys like Soundcheck claim that there is room for improvement, and he had been working tirelessly on providing some positive modifications to the vanilla SBT. His efforts have been met with enormous, almost hysterical resistance by the vendor, which begs the question: why? Of course, the stock answer is that the vendor claims that guys like Soundcheck are pulling the wool over the unsuspecting audio community's eyes, and in behaving like that, he is doing a huge disservice to all naive, uninstructed audiophiles. Sounds like a very noble stance, even grandstanding, if you ask me. But is that really the whole story? Why would the vendor be so much against the possibility of improving its already quite popular product? -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
magiccarpetride;698599 Wrote: If you go back and re-read discussions pertaining to many attempts to improve SBT, you will see that, overall, Logitech engineers/designers etc. seem to be firmly standing the ground that such a thing is a pathetic pipe dream. In other words, according to the Logitech marketing, it is not theoretically possible to improve upon the sound quality of Logitech Squeezebox Touch. The grassroots community that is not beholden by the vendor's agenda appears to think differently. Guys like Soundcheck claim that there is room for improvement, and he had been working tirelessly on providing some positive modifications to the vanilla SBT. His efforts have been met with enormous, almost hysterical resistance by the vendor, which begs the question: why? Of course, the stock answer is that the vendor claims that guys like Soundcheck are pulling the wool over the unsuspecting audio community's eyes, and in behaving like that, he is doing a huge disservice to all naive, uninstructed audiophiles. Sounds like a very noble stance, even grandstanding, if you ask me. But is that really the whole story? Why would the vendor be so much against the possibility of improving its already quite popular product? Please point out even one or two posts where an official logitech person has discussed the soundcheck mods, one way or the other. There has certainly been feedback from the user community, but I'd say LOGITECH themselves have been silent on this issue rather than demonstrating hysterical resistance -- garym *Location 1:* VB Appliance 6TB (1.10) LMS 7.7.1 Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) *Location 2:* VB Appliance 3TB (2.0) LMS 7.7.1 Touch Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) *Office:* Win7(64) LMS 7.7.1 SqueezePlay Retired: SB3, Duet Receiver Controllers: iPhone4S (iPeng), iPad2 (iPengHD SqueezePad), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.7 on Win7(64) laptop Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Additional Tagging - mp3tag garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
garym;698602 Wrote: Please point out even one or two posts where an official logitech person has discussed the soundcheck mods, one way or the other. There has certainly been feedback from the user community, but I'd say LOGITECH themselves have been silent on this issue rather than demonstrating hysterical resistance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
magiccarpetride;698605 Wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill I could have guessed you'd have no actual answer. Thanks for confirming. -- garym *Location 1:* VB Appliance 6TB (1.10) LMS 7.7.1 Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) *Location 2:* VB Appliance 3TB (2.0) LMS 7.7.1 Touch Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) *Office:* Win7(64) LMS 7.7.1 SqueezePlay Retired: SB3, Duet Receiver Controllers: iPhone4S (iPeng), iPad2 (iPengHD SqueezePad), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.7 on Win7(64) laptop Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Additional Tagging - mp3tag garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
magiccarpetride;698599 Wrote: If you go back and re-read discussions pertaining to many attempts to improve SBT, you will see that, overall, Logitech engineers/designers etc. seem to be firmly standing the ground that such a thing is a pathetic pipe dream. In other words, according to the Logitech marketing, it is not theoretically possible to improve upon the sound quality of Logitech Squeezebox Touch. The grassroots community that is not beholden by the vendor's agenda appears to think differently. Guys like Soundcheck claim that there is room for improvement, and he had been working tirelessly on providing some positive modifications to the vanilla SBT. His efforts have been met with enormous, almost hysterical resistance by the vendor, which begs the question: why? Of course, the stock answer is that the vendor claims that guys like Soundcheck are pulling the wool over the unsuspecting audio community's eyes, and in behaving like that, he is doing a huge disservice to all naive, uninstructed audiophiles. Sounds like a very noble stance, even grandstanding, if you ask me. But is that really the whole story? Why would the vendor be so much against the possibility of improving its already quite popular product? While I agree, in principle, that there are unanswered questions, I also don't ever recall seeing an official Logitech response/explanation of this particular issue, either. Which is why I asked for one in my other post. I don't see why it would be such a huge deal if, in fact, Logitech were to tell us that the priority and buffer settings were possibly not tuned to the absolute optimum values. After, all, there must be, literally, 1,000's of possible combinations of those settings. The designer/engineers would have only had so much time to devote to fine tuning them. That people in this community might have both the time and inclination to play around with more alternatives than was possible for Logitech to do, internally, would not seem to cast any aspersions on Logitech's capabilities. And, certainly, there is lots of precedent here for 3rd parties to improve the product where Logitech didn't have the available resources (Triode's USB work being a recent and prime example) to devote. -- rgro Rg System information Main: PS Audio Quintet Vortexbox Teddy Pardo PS, Touch (wired) Toslink Rega DAC LFD LE IV Signature amp VA Mozart Grands REL Acoustics R305. Home Theatre: Duet/SBR (Wired) Pioneer VSX 919 Energy Take 5 Classic 5.1. SBS 7.7.2 r33908 on a Vortexbox Appliance, V 2.0, Touch: FW 7.7.1 r9558. Duet: FW 77. rgro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
rgro;698616 Wrote: And, certainly, there is lots of precedent here for 3rd parties to improve the product where Logitech didn't have the available resources (Triode's USB work being a recent and prime example) to devote. Even as a shill, I completely agree. -- garym *Location 1:* VB Appliance 6TB (1.10) LMS 7.7.1 Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) *Location 2:* VB Appliance 3TB (2.0) LMS 7.7.1 Touch Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) *Office:* Win7(64) LMS 7.7.1 SqueezePlay Retired: SB3, Duet Receiver Controllers: iPhone4S (iPeng), iPad2 (iPengHD SqueezePad), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.7 on Win7(64) laptop Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Additional Tagging - mp3tag garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
rgro;698616 Wrote: While I agree, in principle, that there are unanswered questions, I also don't ever recall seeing an official Logitech response/explanation of this particular issue, either. Which is why I asked for one in my other post. I don't see why it would be such a huge deal if, in fact, Logitech were to tell us that the priority and buffer settings were possibly not tuned to the absolute optimum values. After, all, there must be, literally, 1,000's of possible combinations of those settings. The designer/engineers would have only had so much time to devote to fine tuning them. That people in this community might have both the time and inclination to play around with more alternatives than was possible for Logitech to do, internally, would not seem to cast any aspersions on Logitech's capabilities. And, certainly, there is lots of precedent here for 3rd parties to improve the product where Logitech didn't have the available resources (Triode's USB work being a recent and prime example) to devote. I can only speak for myself, but if it wasn't for Soundcheck's TT3.0, I would today be a proud owner of the Transporter. I was looking for that 'next step up' for my digital transport, not feeling that SBT is good enough. However, after applying TT3.0, and then learning how to do subsequent tweaking free of charge, I've realized that SBT pretty much gets me to where I'd be if I purchased Transporter. So Logitech lost the sale... the rest is history... -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
magiccarpetride;698595 Wrote: I have an odd question for you, and I'm asking it just for future reference: was there ever a change, or an event that you've introduced into your audio system that resulted in you actually hearing the differences? If yes, could you please describe the change? Do you have ANY idea why I find this post offensive? -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
Phil Leigh;698619 Wrote: Do you have ANY idea why I find this post offensive? I regret if you find it offensive, it wasn't my intention. I'm asking because all I can recall is you always denying that there could be any difference in hearing various configurations, so I was naturally wondering if you've been in the situation where you do hear the differences. I have an acquaintance who claims, in a somewhat extreme fashion, that all these differences we hear when shifting speakers in the room, or even when getting new speakers, are strictly psycho-acoustic phenomenon, and that in reality the differences are not really audible. -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
magiccarpetride;698621 Wrote: I regret if you find it offensive, it wasn't my intention. I'm asking because all I can recall is you always denying that there could be any difference in hearing various configurations, so I was naturally wondering if you've been in the situation where you do hear the differences. I have an acquaintance who claims, in a somewhat extreme fashion, that all these differences we hear when shifting speakers in the room, or even when getting new speakers, are strictly psycho-acoustic phenomenon, and that in reality the differences are not really audible. OK, I'll assume you didn't mean it the way I read it. 1) I have never denied any such thing (except for the so-called vol lock mod which can NEVER work in this universe) - you have me confused with someone else. Your friend clearly has reality issues... 2) Yes, there are many things that make an audible difference to me and many that don't. After quality of recording/mastering, the things that make the biggest difference TO ME are the speakers, room correction/treatment and active amplification then choice of DAC. Assuming bit-perfect sreaming, everything else is at least one order of magnitude down in effect/impact. Let me give you an analogy: it's like the difference between brand new strings and strings that have seen a couple of hours of light practice on my '58 Les Paul through my '67 Marshall... You dig? -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
Phil Leigh;698630 Wrote: OK, I'll assume you didn't mean it the way I read it. 1) I have never denied any such thing (except for the so-called vol lock mod which can NEVER work in this universe) - you have me confused with someone else. Your friend clearly has reality issues... 2) Yes, there are many things that make an audible difference to me and many that don't. After quality of recording/mastering, the things that make the biggest difference TO ME are the speakers, room correction/treatment and active amplification then choice of DAC. Assuming bit-perfect sreaming, everything else is at least one order of magnitude down in effect/impact. Let me give you an analogy: it's like the difference between brand new strings and strings that have seen a couple of hours of light practice on my '58 Les Paul through my '67 Marshall... You dig? No I don't dig. Brand new strings easily go out of tune, but settle after some (mis)use. How does that relate to audio reproduction? -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
magiccarpetride;698641 Wrote: No I don't dig. Brand new strings easily go out of tune, but settle after some (mis)use. How does that relate to audio reproduction? Assume that you have fitted the strings properly and pre-stretched them correctly... It's really not a hard analogy... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
Phil Leigh;698647 Wrote: Assume that you have fitted the strings properly and pre-stretched them correctly... It's really not a hard analogy... Perhaps a better analogy would be the difference in enjoying someone playing a red Les Paul vs that same person playing a gold top Les Paul. Both guitars should sound pretty much the same, but it's that darn difference in colors that can influence how the music comes across. -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
praganj;698232 Wrote: Has anybody tried TT 3.0 with the new 7.7.2 LMS and newest 7.7.2 SBT firmware version ? Has anyone tried the workaround for factory reset that worked for the 7.7.1 update? That is: 1) From the SBT console: tt -r 2) Reboot 3) Install update via SBT screen menu 4) From the SBT console: tt -i -- HumanMedia HumanMedia's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=44865 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
Duplicate post -- HumanMedia HumanMedia's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=44865 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
magiccarpetride;697922 Wrote: Were you able to hear those differences, or merely measure them? Merely measure them. Could not hear any difference - I did try - even with my super wonderful headphones! -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
magiccarpetride;697908 Wrote: I'd be curious: are you claiming that there is a scientifically based set of tools that can create optimal speaker placement in one's room? Really? Is there a link? How much does it cost? Why are state of the art audio dealerships not using it, instead of creating these horrendous, crappy sounding demo rooms? There's loads of pro level software that can do this in conjunction with measurement mics. All pro recording/production studios are designed+tweaked using these tools. What dealers do or don't do is beyond sensible discussion. Manufacturers demo rooms are always tweaked IME. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
magiccarpetride;697915 Wrote: I must say that you raise a good point here. Maybe that's exactly the case here? Could it be that by tinkering with the priorities and tasklets, we are in effect 'ameliorating' the bitstream, meaning adding signal that was never present on the original recording? I'd say that, in my experience, it's more like the TT3.0 is acting like a Soundshop (i.e. something similar to the notorious Photoshop) tool. You know how you can upload an unadorned digital photo from your camera/phone and play with it using Adobe Photoshop by adding extra information that was never recorded in the camera? You can brighten the photo up, sharpen it, apply color saturation, plus add all kinds of outlandish effects. Many people enjoy playing with such tools, because these tools give them the ability to ameliorate and pretty up their ho-hum photos. I know a lot of people who would never publish their photos unless they first fix them using Photoshop. You may be right again. If we're using this 'Soundshop' (i.e. TT3.0) to add information that was never there to begin with, that would be the exact opposite of high fidelity. That would be extreme case of infidelity. Again, I have no idea whether that's exactly what's happening, all I know is that I can personally hear discernible differences between certain profiles. At the same time, there are certain tweaks/profiles where I cannot, for the life of me, hear any differences. Now, among the differences I am capable of hearing, some are more and some are less pleasing to my ears. Which is where personal taste enters the picture, at which point all bets are off. It is literally impossible to alter the data content of the bitstream in any way by these mods. Sorry. If that was happening, total cr@p could pour out of the speakers like deafening static which could shred your speakers in milliseconds. You can't alter the bitstream in any coherent/musical way without using carefully engineered DSP. A simple fact that seems to elude many hi-fi mags and some of their readers... -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
Phil Leigh;698331 Wrote: It is literally impossible to alter the data content of the bitstream in any way by these mods. Sorry. If that was happening, total cr@p could pour out of the speakers like deafening static which could shred your speakers in milliseconds. You can't alter the bitstream in any coherent/musical way without using carefully engineered DSP. A simple fact that seems to elude many hi-fi mags and some of their readers... OK, with that crackpot theory debunked, all we're left of is jitter? -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
Phil Leigh;698328 Wrote: There's loads of pro level software that can do this in conjunction with measurement mics. All pro recording/production studios are designed+tweaked using these tools. Links? What's the ballpark price tag we're talking? I sure could use such utilities, provided they're not going to break the bank. Phil Leigh;698328 Wrote: What dealers do or don't do is beyond sensible discussion. Manufacturers demo rooms are always tweaked IME. I've never seen anyone doing speaker placement using anything but their own ears. Would be interesting to watch someone go through the motions using pro tools... -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
Phil Leigh;698326 Wrote: Merely measure them. Could not hear any difference - I did try - even with my super wonderful headphones! I can't recall -- did you also perform measurements for the digital outs? And if yes, what are the measurement results? -- magiccarpetride magiccarpetride's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37863 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
Hi, My SBT with TT3 and volume mod enabled sounds louder when played from my NAS than from W7. Any idea how it is possible? -- evdplancke evdplancke's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=43147 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
evdplancke;698434 Wrote: Hi, My SBT with TT3 and volume mod enabled sounds louder when played from my NAS than from W7. Any idea how it is possible? Check the audio setting on both Lms for whether replay gain values are being used in playback. -- garym *Location 1:* VB Appliance 6TB (1.10) LMS 7.7.1 Transporter, Touch, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) *Location 2:* VB Appliance 3TB (2.0) LMS 7.7.1 Touch Benchmark DAC I, Boom, Radio w/Battery (all ethernet except Radio) *Office:* Win7(64) LMS 7.7.1 SqueezePlay Retired: SB3, Duet Receiver Controllers: iPhone4S (iPeng), iPad2 (iPengHD SqueezePad), CONTROLLER, or SqueezePlay 7.7 on Win7(64) laptop Ripping (FLAC) - dbpoweramp, Additional Tagging - mp3tag garym's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=17325 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
magiccarpetride;698370 Wrote: I can't recall -- did you also perform measurements for the digital outs? And if yes, what are the measurement results? Yes I did measure it but I did not publish the results because I did not have time to go to the same lengths of precision and repetition as for the analogue testing. With my DAC there was no reliably measurable difference with the limited tests that I did. Personally I'm happy with these results but I would not want to project them as a general case as they may vary according to the DAC in use and electrical interference from equipment connected to the Touch such as the router. -- Phil Leigh You want to see the signal path BEFORE it gets onto a CD/vinyl...it ain't what you'd call minimal... Touch(wired/W7)+Teddy Pardo PSU - Audiolense 3.3/2.0+INGUZ DRC - MF M1 DAC - Linn 5103 - full Aktiv 5.1 system (6x LK140's, ESPEK/TRIKAN/KATAN/SEIZMIK 10.5), Pekin Tuner, Townsend Supertweeters,VdH Toslink,Kimber 8TC Speaker Chord Signature Plus Interconnect cables Stax4070+SRM7/II phones Kitchen Boom, Outdoors: SB Radio, Harmony One remote for everything. Phil Leigh's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=85 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
Phil Leigh;698331 Wrote: It is literally impossible to alter the data content of the bitstream in any way by these mods. Sorry. If that was happening, total cr@p could pour out of the speakers like deafening static which could shred your speakers in milliseconds. You can't alter the bitstream in any coherent/musical way without using carefully engineered DSP. A simple fact that seems to elude many hi-fi mags and some of their readers... Not completely true. In the tt sbt settings try raising the tcp buffers without a corresponding alsa priority increase - it will make the sound like a 1950s radio, you can also add clicks, pops and scratches which do not correct themselves over time. Choosing mismatched priorities can add artifacts, which can be changed and worsened to static well before the Dac loses lock. But you are right that within proper operating parameters that the digital steam should be fine. IMO the biggest things these tweaks do is put the internal switching power supplies in different states some of which create less electrical noise. Like putting a car in first gear creates more even higher pitched acoustic noise, or putting it into 3rd gear makes lower frequency noise which has larger frequency modulations. -- HumanMedia HumanMedia's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=44865 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
To reset do I choose restore defaults or is there a button to push on the touch? J -- jmschnur Joel jmschnur's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8604 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
jmschnur;698460 Wrote: To reset do I choose restore defaults or is there a button to push on the touch? J Restore defaults and a reboot avoids the need to push the rest button. But only if you are going from 7.7.0 or 7.7.1 to 7.7.2, otherwise its probably wise to do a factory reset by holding in the button above the power inlet for over 5 seconds. -- HumanMedia HumanMedia's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=44865 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
Thanks , is to 4.0 coming or should I reinstall 3.0 after I reset. J -- jmschnur Joel jmschnur's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8604 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
lake_eleven;697947 Wrote: Removed toslink this weekend. Disconnected the screen too. Worth the try!. Much reduced digital harsh/noise, better imaging, depth and details. you mean reduced hash right? in my sys it was significant-- was prepared to put the toslink back in if there was no change -- sckramer CiAudio VDC-SB - Touch (TT 2.0 mods, removed toslink, disconnected screen, buf:2) PSaudio DLIII DAC (Cullen 4 mods) - PSaudio Trio C-100 Amp (Cullen 3 mods) Energy Veritas 2.2i speakers (mundorf silver oil capacitors, inductor, and resistor mods) Martin Logan Depth i (x2) (xover at 35Hz, +2db boost at 20-25Hz) Cardas power cables - PSaudio Duet - Cardas clear light interconnect -- black cat XV-ULTRA digital cable - Audioquest slate biwire spkr cables sckramer's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=20311 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
I have just done a system update and TT3.0 is still installed but Jive 2 is disabled. Is there a command to switch it back on? -- Covenant Covenant's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=36495 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
Covenant;698194 Wrote: I have just done a system update and TT3.0 is still installed but Jive 2 is disabled. Is there a command to switch it back on? You have to make a complete SBT reset, than make the firmware update and than install (if you want) TT 3.0. -- praganj praganj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41091 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
Just being lazy and was hoping there was a way to avoid a system reinstall. -- Covenant Covenant's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=36495 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
Has anybody tried TT 3.0 with the new 7.7.2 LMS and newest 7.7.2 SBT firmware version ? -- praganj praganj's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=41091 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
When I try to access it , I see the help menu but when I try to check status I get a -sh tt not found remark. What is going on? J -- jmschnur Joel jmschnur's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8604 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
If I remember correctly, TT doesn't survive Touch firmware updates. LMS updates generally have no negative effect, but if the LMS update also triggers a firmware update, the new firmware overwrites everything in the Touch. Unfortunately, I think you'll need to do a complete reinstall. A bit of a PITA -- rgro Rg System information Main: PS Audio Quintet Vortexbox Teddy Pardo PS, Touch (wired) Toslink Rega DAC LFD LE IV Signature amp VA Mozart Grands REL Acoustics R305. Home Theatre: Duet/SBR (Wired) Pioneer VSX 919 Energy Take 5 Classic 5.1. SBS 7.7.1 r33751 on a Vortexbox Appliance, V 2.0, Touch: FW 7.7.1 r9558. Duet: FW 7.7.1 r9557. rgro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
Yes. I will think about it . Strange when I access the touch. I do see the tt menu. J -- jmschnur Joel jmschnur's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=8604 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
jmschnur;698257 Wrote: Yes. I will think about it . Strange when I access the touch. I do see the tt menu. J You will see that and some odd error messages (when you type tt -s) if you haven't done a full factory reset of the Touch, first. Otherwise, there are some artifacts left behind that mess up the TT installation if done w/out the reset. So, before you reinstall TT, you need to do a full Touch factory reset-and remember to enable SSH after the reset. -- rgro Rg System information Main: PS Audio Quintet Vortexbox Teddy Pardo PS, Touch (wired) Toslink Rega DAC LFD LE IV Signature amp VA Mozart Grands REL Acoustics R305. Home Theatre: Duet/SBR (Wired) Pioneer VSX 919 Energy Take 5 Classic 5.1. SBS 7.7.1 r33751 on a Vortexbox Appliance, V 2.0, Touch: FW 7.7.1 r9558. Duet: FW 7.7.1 r9557. rgro's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=34348 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
Re: [SlimDevices: Audiophiles] soundcheck's Touch Toolbox 3.0
magiccarpetride;697585 Wrote: There is nothing false or true here. It's like saying Beethoven is better than Mozart -- false or true? No it isn't. The issue is not about aesthetic judgments of works of art. The point is that these changes make no difference at all: no discernible difference to the output from the SBT/DAC. The problem with intervening in this miasma of nonsense is not that it is interrupting a civilized discussion or that de gustibus non est disputandum; the real problem is that it is pointless to interrupt a mad tramp on park bench having an argument with himself. -- adamdea adamdea's Profile: http://forums.slimdevices.com/member.php?userid=37603 View this thread: http://forums.slimdevices.com/showthread.php?t=91322 ___ audiophiles mailing list audiophiles@lists.slimdevices.com http://lists.slimdevices.com/mailman/listinfo/audiophiles
