Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Parents of Joao Da Costa Ferraz and Antonia Francisca

[herb]

Hi Eliseu I gave you the wrong date and location. Here is the correct 
information

Antonio Jose Terceira Coelho was born in Se Angra do Heroismo, Terceira and 
married Jacinta Rosa of Conceicao Ribeira Grande on 10 Nov 1817 in Conceicao 
Ribeira Grande Sao Miguel. The. Conceicao marriage records are not up on the 
site yet. I know Rick Pimentel  had said he had access to some of the Conceicao 
marriages. Sorry about the wrong date. Jacinta was the daughter of Luis de 
Teves Ferreira of NS da Estrela and Maria Joaquina of Sao Sebastiao PD and was 
born on 8 July 1798 in NS da Conceicao RG. 

Herb


Sent from my iPhone

> On May 27, 2014, at 4:08 PM, herb  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Eliseu it was in Conceicao 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On May 27, 2014, at 3:46 PM, "Eliseu Pacheco da Silva" 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi!
>>  
>> Where in Ribeira Grande José Jacinto do Rego married? J
>>  
>> eliseu
>>  
>> De: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] Em nome de Herb 
>> and Judi Silva
>> Enviada: terça-feira, 27 de Maio de 2014 02:52
>> Para: azores@googlegroups.com
>> Assunto: Re: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Parents of Joao Da Costa Ferraz and 
>> Antonia Francisca
>>  
>>  Hi Doug
>>  
>> I do have a line that originated in Terceira,  a Joao de Rosa and Ana 
>> Joaquina  of Se, Angra do Heroismo Terceira, who had a son named Antonio  
>> Jose "Terceira" Coelho who was born in Se Parish,  but  married Jacinta Rosa 
>> in NS da Conceicao, Ribeira Grande Sao Miguel on 8 July 1798.  I don't have 
>> dates for Joao Rosa and Ana Joaquina and CCA has not posted any Ribeira 
>> Grande records so it's a bit challenging to do crosschecks and prove lines. 
>> I'm hoping to live long enough to actually see those records in the  CCA 
>> site. LOL
>>  
>>  Antonio Jose "Terceira" Coelho ( is one of my 4th great grandfathers) and 
>> Jacinta Rosa had a daughter Luzia Candida who  married Jose Jacinto Rego  on 
>> 14 Jan 1839 in Ribeira Grande.  You know how Portuguese people are notorious 
>> and unforgiving with use of nicknames, so coming from Terceira to Sao 
>> Miguel, he was likely given the nickname of "Terceira". Did the Rosa family 
>> move to Sao Miguel from Terceira?
>>  
>>  Interesting though that my grandfather moved to Angra in the 1930's from 
>> Sao Miguel. Was there a connection there, who knows?
>>  
>> Herb
>>  
>> On 05/26/14, p...@dholmes.com wrote:
>>  
>> Hi Herb,
>>  
>> If your line is Ferraz, this might be a connection to Terceira.
>> I think it was Manoel Furtado of Brasil who once mentioned a Ferraz ancestor 
>> showing up on Sao Miguel.
>> Might not be this one, but could be. I think he'll see the message and 
>> comment on it.
>>  
>> His line came from Se, Angra (the cathedral in downtown Angra) in the early 
>> 1600s, I believe.
>>  
>> Doug da Rocha Holmes
>> Sacramento, California
>> Pico & Terceira Genealogist
>> 916-550-1618
>> www.dholmes.com
>>  
>> 
>>  Original Message 
>> Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Parents of Joao Da Costa Ferraz and Antonia
>> Francisca
>> From: Herb 
>> Date: Mon, May 26, 2014 4:12 pm
>> To: azores@googlegroups.com
>> 
>>  
>> I'm trying to locate the parents of Joao da Costa Ferraz and Antonia 
>> Francisca of Agua de Pau, Sao Miguel
>> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-AGUADEPAU-C-1809-1832/SMG-LG-AGUADEPAU-C-1809-1832_item1/P78.html.
>>   Right side
>>  
>> Their son Antonio Jacinto da Costa Ferraz was born 7 Jul 1784 and married 
>> Barbara Querobina do Espirito Santo on 10 Feb 1817 in Agua de Pau.   On 
>> their marriage record  she was listed as Barbara Querobina do Coracao de 
>> Jesus.
>>  
>> Witnesses at this marriage were Antonio Caetano da Silva Lopes and Antonio 
>> Jose Tavares
>>  
>> It's possible that Joao's parents were not from Agua de Pau.  I'm thinking 
>> maybe they were from  Vila Franca, but I have not been able to find them.  
>> Does anyone have these families?
>>  
>> Herb
>> -- 
>> -- 
>> For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail 
>> (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at 
>> http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right 
>> that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."
>> --- 
>> You received this mes

Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Parents of Joao Da Costa Ferraz and Antonia Francisca

[herb]

Hi Eliseu it was in Conceicao 
Sent from my iPhone

> On May 27, 2014, at 3:46 PM, "Eliseu Pacheco da Silva" 
>  wrote:
> 
> Hi!
>  
> Where in Ribeira Grande José Jacinto do Rego married? J
>  
> eliseu
>  
> De: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azores@googlegroups.com] Em nome de Herb 
> and Judi Silva
> Enviada: terça-feira, 27 de Maio de 2014 02:52
> Para: azores@googlegroups.com
> Assunto: Re: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Parents of Joao Da Costa Ferraz and 
> Antonia Francisca
>  
>  Hi Doug
>  
> I do have a line that originated in Terceira,  a Joao de Rosa and Ana 
> Joaquina  of Se, Angra do Heroismo Terceira, who had a son named Antonio  
> Jose "Terceira" Coelho who was born in Se Parish,  but  married Jacinta Rosa 
> in NS da Conceicao, Ribeira Grande Sao Miguel on 8 July 1798.  I don't have 
> dates for Joao Rosa and Ana Joaquina and CCA has not posted any Ribeira 
> Grande records so it's a bit challenging to do crosschecks and prove lines. 
> I'm hoping to live long enough to actually see those records in the  CCA 
> site. LOL
>  
>  Antonio Jose "Terceira" Coelho ( is one of my 4th great grandfathers) and 
> Jacinta Rosa had a daughter Luzia Candida who  married Jose Jacinto Rego  on 
> 14 Jan 1839 in Ribeira Grande.  You know how Portuguese people are notorious 
> and unforgiving with use of nicknames, so coming from Terceira to Sao Miguel, 
> he was likely given the nickname of "Terceira". Did the Rosa family move to 
> Sao Miguel from Terceira?
>  
>  Interesting though that my grandfather moved to Angra in the 1930's from Sao 
> Miguel. Was there a connection there, who knows?
>  
> Herb
>  
> On 05/26/14, p...@dholmes.com wrote:
>  
> Hi Herb,
>  
> If your line is Ferraz, this might be a connection to Terceira.
> I think it was Manoel Furtado of Brasil who once mentioned a Ferraz ancestor 
> showing up on Sao Miguel.
> Might not be this one, but could be. I think he'll see the message and 
> comment on it.
>  
> His line came from Se, Angra (the cathedral in downtown Angra) in the early 
> 1600s, I believe.
>  
> Doug da Rocha Holmes
> Sacramento, California
> Pico & Terceira Genealogist
> 916-550-1618
> www.dholmes.com
>  
> 
>  Original Message 
> Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Parents of Joao Da Costa Ferraz and Antonia
> Francisca
> From: Herb 
> Date: Mon, May 26, 2014 4:12 pm
> To: azores@googlegroups.com
> 
>  
> I'm trying to locate the parents of Joao da Costa Ferraz and Antonia 
> Francisca of Agua de Pau, Sao Miguel
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-AGUADEPAU-C-1809-1832/SMG-LG-AGUADEPAU-C-1809-1832_item1/P78.html.
>   Right side
>  
> Their son Antonio Jacinto da Costa Ferraz was born 7 Jul 1784 and married 
> Barbara Querobina do Espirito Santo on 10 Feb 1817 in Agua de Pau.   On their 
> marriage record  she was listed as Barbara Querobina do Coracao de Jesus.
>  
> Witnesses at this marriage were Antonio Caetano da Silva Lopes and Antonio 
> Jose Tavares
>  
> It's possible that Joao's parents were not from Agua de Pau.  I'm thinking 
> maybe they were from  Vila Franca, but I have not been able to find them.  
> Does anyone have these families?
>  
> Herb
> -- 
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Re: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Parents of Joao Da Costa Ferraz and Antonia Francisca

[Herb and Judi Silva]

  Hi Margaret.  Thanks for the information.  Now there's a couple of surnames you don't see everyday huh???, Conigo and Xiote Sousa, right? I will do some more checking. I only knew of two children they had,  Antonio Jacinto and Manuel.  Not aware of a 2nd Antonio Herb On 05/26/14, Margaret Vicente<margaretvicente@gmail.com> wrote: Herb,I show Joao's parents as Manuel Ferras Conigo and Maria de Santo Amaro Medeiros.Antonia Francisca's surname is Sousa.  She is the daughter of Manuel de Sousa Xiote and Maria de Oliveira. I'm not certain if you have the right child named Antonio for the marriage record because this couple had another Antonio born 23-April-1793.  This Antonio would be 24 years old at time of marriage Jul 7 1784.Check out all the the information here, right side, bottom record:http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-AGUADEPAU-B-1780-1801/SMG-LG-AGUADEPAU-B-1780-1801_item1/P171.htmlMargaretOn Mon, May 26, 2014 at 7:12 PM, Herb <herbandjudi@verizon.net> wrote:I'm trying to locate the parents of Joao da Costa Ferraz and Antonia Francisca of Agua de Pau, Sao Miguelhttp://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-AGUADEPAU-C-1809-1832/SMG-LG-AGUADEPAU-C-1809-1832_item1/P78.html.  Right sideTheir son Antonio Jacinto da Costa Ferraz was born 7 Jul 1784 and married Barbara Querobina do Espirito Santo on 10 Feb 1817 in Agua de Pau.   On their marriage record  she was listed as Barbara Querobina do Coracao de Jesus.Witnesses at this marriage were Antonio Caetano da Silva Lopes and Antonio Jose TavaresIt's possible that Joao's parents were not from Agua de Pau.  I'm thinking maybe they were from  Vila Franca, but I have not been able to find them.  Does anyone have these families?Herb-- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.-- Margaret M Vicente -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."--- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/azores/GC5h8lwvSxE/unsubscribe.To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to azores+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.



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Re: RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Parents of Joao Da Costa Ferraz and Antonia Francisca

[Herb and Judi Silva]

 Hi Doug I do have a line that originated in Terceira,  a Joao de Rosa and Ana Joaquina  of Se, Angra do Heroismo Terceira, who had a son named Antonio  Jose "Terceira" Coelho who was born in Se Parish,  but  married Jacinta Rosa in NS da Conceicao, Ribeira Grande Sao Miguel on 8 July 1798.  I don't have dates for Joao Rosa and Ana Joaquina and CCA has not posted any Ribeira Grande records so it's a bit challenging to do crosschecks and prove lines. I'm hoping to live long enough to actually see those records in the  CCA site. LOL  Antonio Jose "Terceira" Coelho ( is one of my 4th great grandfathers) and Jacinta Rosa had a daughter Luzia Candida who  married Jose Jacinto Rego  on 14 Jan 1839 in Ribeira Grande.  You know how Portuguese people are notorious and unforgiving with use of nicknames, so coming from Terceira to Sao Miguel, he was likely given the nickname of "Terceira". Did the Rosa family move to Sao Miguel from Terceira?  Interesting though that my grandfather moved to Angra in the 1930's from Sao Miguel. Was there a connection there, who knows? Herb On 05/26/14, pico@dholmes.com wrote: Hi Herb,If your line is Ferraz, this might be a connection to Terceira.I think it was Manoel Furtado of Brasil who once mentioned a Ferraz ancestor showing up on Sao Miguel.Might not be this one, but could be. I think he'll see the message and comment on it.His line came from Se, Angra (the cathedral in downtown Angra) in the early 1600s, I believe.Doug da Rocha HolmesSacramento, CaliforniaPico & Terceira Genealogist916-550-1618www.dholmes.com Original Message Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Parents of Joao Da Costa Ferraz and AntoniaFranciscaFrom: Herb <herbandjudi@verizon.net>Date: Mon, May 26, 2014 4:12 pmTo: azores@googlegroups.comI'm trying to locate the parents of Joao da Costa Ferraz and Antonia Francisca of Agua de Pau, Sao Miguelhttp://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-AGUADEPAU-C-1809-1832/SMG-LG-AGUADEPAU-C-1809-1832_item1/P78.html.  Right sideTheir son Antonio Jacinto da Costa Ferraz was born 7 Jul 1784 and married Barbara Querobina do Espirito Santo on 10 Feb 1817 in Agua de Pau.   On their marriage record  she was listed as Barbara Querobina do Coracao de Jesus.Witnesses at this marriage were Antonio Caetano da Silva Lopes and Antonio Jose TavaresIt's possible that Joao's parents were not from Agua de Pau.  I'm thinking maybe they were from  Vila Franca, but I have not been able to find them.  Does anyone have these families?Herb--  -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."--- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/azores/GC5h8lwvSxE/unsubscribe.To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to azores+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.



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[AZORES-Genealogy] Parents of Joao Da Costa Ferraz and Antonia Francisca

[Herb]

I'm trying to locate the parents of Joao da Costa Ferraz and Antonia 
Francisca of Agua de Pau, Sao Miguel
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-AGUADEPAU-C-1809-1832/SMG-LG-AGUADEPAU-C-1809-1832_item1/P78.html.
  
Right side

Their son Antonio Jacinto da Costa Ferraz was born 7 Jul 1784 and married 
Barbara Querobina do Espirito Santo on 10 Feb 1817 in Agua de Pau.   On 
their marriage record  she was listed as Barbara Querobina do Coracao de 
Jesus.

Witnesses at this marriage were Antonio Caetano da Silva Lopes and Antonio 
Jose Tavares

It's possible that Joao's parents were not from Agua de Pau.  I'm 
thinking maybe they were from  Vila Franca, but I have not been able to 
find them.  Does anyone have these families?

Herb

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Please Crosscheck Marriage Record July 1712

[Herb]

Hello Dano and thank you for your review. Interesting that the priest spelled 
his first name as Joseph rather than Joze or Jose. I don't think I have seen 
this spelling before. Herb

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Please Crosscheck Marriage Record July 1712

[Herb]

I think I may have  found the  marriage  record of my 7th G Grandfather ( 
Record on top right).  I think it says Jose Mendonca married Catarina 
Correia on 24 July 1712 in Sao Jorge Nordeste and that he was the widower 
of Thereza Pimentel???.   Her parents names were Manuel Correia Sousa and 
Maria Arruda but I  don't see his parents names.  This is how it is with 
all records in situations where one of the parents had died, they simply 
say "viuvo de  or "viuva da" but that's about it, which leaves us to search 
for the first marriage or through obituaries.  Any input is always 
 appreciated . Many thanks.  Herb


http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-ND-SAOJORGE-C-1707-1743/SMG-ND-SAOJORGE-C-1707-1743_item1/P25.html

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Mtdna

[Herb]

I had my moms DNA tested many years ago. It was just an initial test that did 
not yield very much information. It used to show the haplogroup. Anyway I went 
to the family tree DNA site last night and was looking in there and in the maps 
section there is a little bubble or ballon above the Avenida of Dom Infante  
Henrique in Ponta Delgada with the name of a woman a Maria da Conceicao. Under 
her name it says b. 1848. I have never noticed this before and not really sure 
what it might be. Herb

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Jewish diaspora? That came out of nowhere!

[Herb]

Antonio, the Matches page on familytreedna. Com is down but I think both 
Melinda's dad and the other match are both Sao Miguel. I know the other one is 
for sure.

By the way that page and the known relationships page have been down awhile. 
Herb

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Help with marriage record for Antonio de Oliveira and Rosa da Trindade 1736 Sao Jose P.D.

[Herb]

Erica it is difficult to make out, but could Miguel Sinseyra" ja defuncto" 
meaning he had already passed.  the first name is definitely Miguel. The 
only other name that I see it could be is Teixeira but I don't see an X.  
If it is Sinseyra or Sincerya, it is a very unusual name, not something I 
have seen before. I could be completely off, but trying to help. Sincerya 
seems right to me.

 Fortunately for us there are some on here who are very good at reading 
some of these more difficult records.  Good luck

Herb



On Sunday, May 11, 2014 10:56:28 PM UTC-4, audiosourceinc wrote:

> I need help with the last name of the father of Rosa da Trindade. I read 
> his first name as Miguel.
>
> Right page
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-SAOJOSE-C-1730-1745/SMG-PD-SAOJOSE-C-1730-1745_item1/P60.html
>
>  
>
> Thank you,
>
> Erica Botelho
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Jewish diaspora? That came out of nowhere!

[Herb]

Hi Melinda

My dad and your dad are showing up as possible 2nd-4th cousins but no 
mention of any Jewish Diaspora relationship. The first time I went on the 
my origins page when I clicked on the little balloons on the bottom right 
hand side of the page, nothing happened, but I went on today,  lo and 
behold both my maternal and paternal most distant ancestors are showing up 
with balloons over extreme Northern Portugal and also above where the 
Azores or maybe Madeira are on the map.  I don't know which group of 
Islands, the map doesn't show, but the balloons are located west of 
Portugal in what appears are either the Azores or possibly Madeira. It 
would be good to know which.   Just as I suspected all along, I am 
Portuguese. LOL LOL.  There is a smattering of other ethnicities but that 
is to be expected.  European  history and geography tells us that, so there 
aren't any surprises. In fact the results as far as I am concerned, don't 
tell me anything that I would consider as new or any new revelations. Also 
the total number is more than 100% but Cheri Melo explained that they 
probably round up, which would explain that as well.  

I also show a match to another person on this forum. but I am not surprised 
by that because she and I had exchanged some information back a few months 
ago, and had discovered that we shared some common paternal ancestors. 

Herb



On Sunday, May 11, 2014 10:11:09 AM UTC-4, Melinda Lopes wrote:

>
> I am unaware of any personal Jewish ancestry but my results came back with 
> 9% Jewish Diaspora. What is really notable is that neither one of my 
> parent's results show any Jewish Diaspora. I am trying to figure how that 
> happens. My results were:
>  
> 47% North Mediterranean Basin
> 28% European Costal Islands
> 12% European Northlands
> 9% Jewish Diaspora
>  
> *My father's results (both parents from Azores):*
>  
> 89% North Mediterranean Basin
> 5% European Northlands
> 5% Middle Eastern
> 1% East African Pastoralists
>  
> *My mother's results:*
>  
> 55% European Coastal Islands
> 24% European Northlands
> 19% North Mediterranean Basin
> 2% Eurasian Heartland
>  
> Mostly I can understand the blending of my parents' result but I don't 
> really understand how I got the 9% Jewish Diaspora which was shown on the 
> map as centered over Poland.
>  
> Melinda Lopes
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Baptism listed in Casamentos?

[Herb]

Thank you Margaret

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Baptism listed in Casamentos?

[Herb]

I meant to say my g grandparents not grandparents.. Herb

On Saturday, May 10, 2014 10:25:38 AM UTC-4, Herb wrote:
>
> While searching for the marriage of my grandparents  Joao Jacinto Brandao 
> and Emilia Amalia da Conceicao in Sao Pedro Ponta Delgada circa 1885-1888. 
> ( Not sure if they married there or Nordeste). I came across this record 
> which is actually the birth of a girl named Emilia. It would appear that 
> the priest deliberately wrote the record of this child's birth/baptism in 
> the "casamentos" section rather than baptisms and he made an annotation in 
> the margin, perhaps explaining this.   At any rate I thought I would post 
> this information in case any one is searching for her.  I guess this wasn't 
> picked up by the team who posted/maintains  the records on the CCA site or 
> they just chose to post it as is. The father is not listed. The mother was 
> single.
>
>
>
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-SAOPEDRO-C-1880-1889/SMG-PD-SAOPEDRO-C-1880-1889_item1/P233.html
>
>
> Anyway, it's back to the drawing board for me, still looking.
>
>
> Have a great weekend everyone
>
> Herb
>
>
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Baptism listed in Casamentos?

[Herb]

While searching for the marriage of my grandparents  Joao Jacinto Brandao 
and Emilia Amalia da Conceicao in Sao Pedro Ponta Delgada circa 1885-1888. 
( Not sure if they married there or Nordeste). I came across this record 
which is actually the birth of a girl named Emilia. It would appear that 
the priest deliberately wrote the record of this child's birth/baptism in 
the "casamentos" section rather than baptisms and he made an annotation in 
the margin, perhaps explaining this.   At any rate I thought I would post 
this information in case any one is searching for her.  I guess this wasn't 
picked up by the team who posted/maintains  the records on the CCA site or 
they just chose to post it as is. The father is not listed. The mother was 
single.


http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-SAOPEDRO-C-1880-1889/SMG-PD-SAOPEDRO-C-1880-1889_item1/P233.html


Anyway, it's back to the drawing board for me, still looking.


Have a great weekend everyone

Herb


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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] MyOrigins surprise findings from Family Finder DNA testing

[Herb]

Joao where do you come up with this stuff, the raids by North African pirates? 
The raping of the women?  Herb 

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: MyOrigins (Population Finder) is now available!

[Herb]

Very good points Trevor.

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: MyOrigins (Population Finder) is now available!

[Herb]

Cheri how far back do these results go 200,500, maybe 1,000 years or 2,000. Do 
they know? Which ethnicities are recent? How recent? Which are the most 
distant?  Do we really know more now? 

Herb

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Simas DNA

[Herb]

A correction Doug. Sabina Simas was my great aunt. I descend from her 
sister Leonor de Simas who married Miguel Salgueiro. Their son Pedro 
married Brioloanja Manuel. This is through my fathers side. On my mothers 
side I descend from Domingos Simas Columbreiro and Susana Afonso through 
their son Antonio Simas Columbreiro who married Maria Borges Costa in 
Nordeste in 1620 when the Pilgrims were landing at Plymouth Rock. 
Fascinating stuff.


Herb

On Saturday, May 3, 2014 12:47:28 AM UTC-4, Doug da Rocha Holmes wrote:

> Hi Herb,
>
> I didn't know you have multiple links to Simas.
>
> Seems to me it could one day be possible to identify the SIMAS DNA. They 
> can probably do it now at high end research labs. Maybe one day it will 
> trickle down to genealogists. I would love to do that for all my ancestors.
>
> What Marie Pleasant said in another message is really right and something 
> I am working towards. She is getting her first cousins to test with Family 
> Finder. I already know that my sister has different DNA because her son who 
> did the test has some matches I don't get. So it is actually a very helpful 
> thing to do the test for all siblings in every generation.
>
> The way I look at it is that if all my siblings were to test, we might 
> equal maybe 75% of both our parents' DNA. Maybe it's higher and maybe 
> lower, but certainly more than just one single test.
>
> So if you have no parents to test, get all siblings and that will be the 
> best you can do to come closer to equaling all the DNA your parents handed 
> down.
>
> Doug da Rocha Holmes
> Sacramento, California
> Pico & Terceira Genealogist
> 916-550-1618
> www.dholmes.com
>
>
>   Original Message 
> Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Simas DNA
> From: Herb >
> Date: Fri, May 02, 2014 11:52 am
> To: azo...@googlegroups.com 
>
> Hi Doug 
>
> I went back into my files and have many Simas ancestors on both my mother 
> and fathers side going back to the 1500's, from opposite sides of Sao 
> Miguel which is interesting.  Some of these Simas ancestors go back to the 
> Columbreiros and the Vieira Brandaos and Salgueiros. One of my oldest 
> Simas  ancestors appears to be Maria de Simas who married Bartolomeu Dias 
> Rebelo.  Their daughter Maria Rebelo married Francisco Viera Brandao on 4 
> Oct 1640, same place  where I was born, in Fazenda do Nordeste.  I also 
> have Sabina Simas daughter of Domingos Simas although I have no record of 
> her marriage.  As you know Rodrigo Rodrigues mentions them in his writings. 
> I do have a family finder match to Altino but I'm not sure about Cheri 
> although we are I think 7th or 8th cousins. 
>
> Herb
>
> On Tuesday, April 29, 2014 8:11:31 PM UTC-4, Doug da Rocha Holmes wrote:
>
>> To all people with Simas ancestors,
>>
>> I'm wondering how many of you have done the Family Finder DNA test.
>>
>> If you have Simas ancestors and don't match me, I am just curious about 
>> it.
>>
>> For instance, I know Herb Silva has some Simas and so does John Raposo. 
>> Herb got the Family Finder test and isn't showing as a match to me. Neither 
>> does John Raposo, but I don't know if he got the test yet. I think Cheri 
>> Mello has a remote Simas ancestor and doesn't match me, either. I believe 
>> Altino once wrote me about his Simas ancestors and we don't match, if he 
>> got the test.
>>
>> Simas in the Azores traces back, usually, to Domingos de Simas from 
>> Spain. He settled in Nordeste in the late 1500s. From there, Simas spread 
>> out around Sao Miguel. But one son headed off to Pico and if you have Simas 
>> from Pico, chances are we could match that way, because it's more recent.
>>
>> So we are talking about people born 400 years ago and usually beyond the 
>> range for showing any connection. But since my Simas is from my Pico 
>> ancestry where I have a recent 1st cousin marriage, that acts as a 
>> multiplier, maybe a 2X multiplier, and we get matches way beyond the normal 
>> 200 year time frame.
>>
>> Many of my matches have Lajes do Pico ancestors and I know some have 
>> Simas ancestors. But due to the lack of older records from the church in 
>> Lajes, we can't find the connections. We can still assume they exist and 
>> somehow DNA evidence is showing we do have some sort of link.
>>
>> Anyway, speak up publicly on this list or write me privately if you like. 
>> It would be interesting to see what we've got.
>>
>> I think the connection is too remote to show a link to anyone with Simas 
>> lines that stayed in Sao Miguel.

[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Simas DNA

[Herb]

Hi Doug 

I went back into my files and have many Simas ancestors on both my mother 
and fathers side going back to the 1500's, from opposite sides of Sao 
Miguel which is interesting.  Some of these Simas ancestors go back to the 
Columbreiros and the Vieira Brandaos and Salgueiros. One of my oldest 
Simas  ancestors appears to be Maria de Simas who married Bartolomeu Dias 
Rebelo.  Their daughter Maria Rebelo married Francisco Viera Brandao on 4 
Oct 1640, same place  where I was born, in Fazenda do Nordeste.  I also 
have Sabina Simas daughter of Domingos Simas although I have no record of 
her marriage.  As you know Rodrigo Rodrigues mentions them in his writings. 
I do have a family finder match to Altino but I'm not sure about Cheri 
although we are I think 7th or 8th cousins. 

Herb

On Tuesday, April 29, 2014 8:11:31 PM UTC-4, Doug da Rocha Holmes wrote:

> To all people with Simas ancestors,
>
> I'm wondering how many of you have done the Family Finder DNA test.
>
> If you have Simas ancestors and don't match me, I am just curious about it.
>
> For instance, I know Herb Silva has some Simas and so does John Raposo. 
> Herb got the Family Finder test and isn't showing as a match to me. Neither 
> does John Raposo, but I don't know if he got the test yet. I think Cheri 
> Mello has a remote Simas ancestor and doesn't match me, either. I believe 
> Altino once wrote me about his Simas ancestors and we don't match, if he 
> got the test.
>
> Simas in the Azores traces back, usually, to Domingos de Simas from Spain. 
> He settled in Nordeste in the late 1500s. From there, Simas spread out 
> around Sao Miguel. But one son headed off to Pico and if you have Simas 
> from Pico, chances are we could match that way, because it's more recent.
>
> So we are talking about people born 400 years ago and usually beyond the 
> range for showing any connection. But since my Simas is from my Pico 
> ancestry where I have a recent 1st cousin marriage, that acts as a 
> multiplier, maybe a 2X multiplier, and we get matches way beyond the normal 
> 200 year time frame.
>
> Many of my matches have Lajes do Pico ancestors and I know some have Simas 
> ancestors. But due to the lack of older records from the church in Lajes, 
> we can't find the connections. We can still assume they exist and somehow 
> DNA evidence is showing we do have some sort of link.
>
> Anyway, speak up publicly on this list or write me privately if you like. 
> It would be interesting to see what we've got.
>
> I think the connection is too remote to show a link to anyone with Simas 
> lines that stayed in Sao Miguel. But maybe those people all match each 
> other. And maybe all with Simas on Pico match each other.
>
> I would love to find someone with a direct male line assent to this 
> Domingos de Simas. I need to check if any exist on Pico. Then we could do 
> the Y-DNA test on them and that would tell us more about his origins. This 
> is something I'm working on for all my Portuguese ancestors. When I'm ready 
> to type it up, I'll let you know. I recently started something similar on 
> two of my Hungarian ancestral lines which if interested you can find here:
> www.dholmes.com/balla.html
> www.dholmes.com/liska.html
>
> Thanks,
>
> Doug da Rocha Holmes
> Sacramento, California
> Pico & Terceira Genealogist
> 916-550-1618
> www.dholmes.com
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: The new Population Finder (renamed myOrigins) is coming soon!

[Herb]

Cheri I wonder if the new breakdown is  giving us more helpful information 
than what we had had under Beta version.  Every human being in the world 
likely has variations of these breakdowns.  Most continents are covered in 
this breakdown.

Herb

On Thursday, May 1, 2014 10:25:23 PM UTC-4, Cheri Mello wrote:

> For those who have tested with Family Tree DNA (FTDNA) and took the Family 
> Finder test
>
> The new ethnicity breakdown is coming.  I have a beta/preview of it and 
> can see your ethnic breakdowns.
>
> I'm confused!  Now I know why that email said "soon."  
> Mydad:
> 97% European
> 47% European Coastal Islands
> 39% North Mediterranean Basin
> 8% European Coastal Plains
> 2% North Circumpolar (guess I better learn some new words)
> 2% Middle Eastern
> 2% East Afroasiatic
> 2% African
> 2% East African Pastoralists
>
> OK, that's way over 100%!!!  So I'm guessing that there's some divider 
> thing that's not displaying properly.  So I'll take a guess that my dad, 
> who used to be 99.9% Western European under the old Population Finder is 
> 97% European now and 3% other.  If I add 47+39+8+2+2+2+2+2 I get 104%.  So 
> I'm guessing a few of those numbers are rounded up (for instance, the 2% 
> are really 1.5% and the 8% is really a 7.5%, etc).
>
> I don't see where the French, Portuguese, Polish, Russia part is.  I know 
> they told me that Portugal is working.  OK, where's it hiding?
>
> And the map is cut off.  I don't know how to explain this, but I see the 
> Equator and a few countries above and below the Equator.  If I try to move 
> the map, I move my dad and his list of Afroasiatic, Patorialists, and 
> Circumpolar around!
>
> If you are really eager to learn about your Circumpolar and Pastorialist 
> breakdowns, I will look it up for you, but just to let you know, I'm pretty 
> busy until Monday (festa season starts here).  I will do my best to try to 
> get back to you but I have a full 3 days ahead of me.
>
> Cheri Mello
> FTDNA Admin (volunteer)
> Azores DNA Project
> -- 
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das 
> Tainhas, Achada 
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Bizarre...but is it true?

[Herb]

Yes it's true. I have lived and travelled to dozens of countries and this 
practice is  common all over the world. There isn't enough room for all the 
bodies. My grandfather died in Terceira and was buried there in 1940, aged 40. 
When I lived in Terceira I went to the cemeteries to search for his headstone 
or some information on him and found out his bones had been removed 7 years 
after the burial. In Terceira it was 7 years I don't know about the other 
islands. In Guam I think it was 11 years after burial when I lived there. When 
I lived in the UK they leased plots for a period of 25 50 or 99 years. It's the 
same in Australia. Paris and Rome have famous ossuaries and catacombs

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Y dna Matches between Pico and Flores, looking for a list of original Flores settlers.

[Herb]

Hi Antonio. I looked through Volume VI and I did not see any Gonsalves listed 
as early settlers of Flores but it does mention that some of them were 
Pimenteis, Homens, Costas, Fernandes, Vazes, Gomes e Vieiras da juridiscacao  
de Santa Cruz. The paragraph references of a ermidia "small church" the ermidia 
de Sant'Ana and how these people were interred there. 

I did not find any mention of Baltazar or Joao Vieira. I hope this helps some. 


Herb

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Maia Marriage circa 1750

[Herb]

Hello

I am searching for the parents of my ancestors Manuel  Pacheco and Barbara 
Macedo 
of Maia, Sao Miguel.  Maybe someone in the group has this family or has 
come across this family during their research? 

Barbara Macedo was  from Fenais da Ajuda and Manuel Pacheco was from  from 
Maia, but the Maia records are not up on the CCA site yet.  Barbara and 
Manuel were the  parents  of Antonio Pacheco de Medeiros who married in Maiaon 
11 
Jan 1769 to Antonia de Pimentel.

Thanks in advance for any information

Herb
 

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[AZORES-Genealogy] nursery rhyme from Brasil

[Herb]

Doug and Manoel. I believe that instead of barar a Casa it should be eu vou 
varrer a Casa. This means to sweep the house. 

As you know only the very rich had any sort of wooden flooring or cement or 
tile floors. Most homes had hard dirt floors. The women would sprinkle a little 
bit of water on the ground to keep the dust down and would then sweep the 
floor. I remember women in Nordeste doing this when I was a young child in the 
late 50s early 60s. Most women would sing as they did household chores. It was 
an "Alegria ". People were poor but had genuine joy in their lives. The kind of 
joy one rarely sees anymore.  Our ancestors were truly special people. 

Herb

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: first degree of consanguinity

[Herb]

I have never seen a first degree but I have seen lots of 4th, 3rd and second. 
Need to keep a few things in mind though. During the 18th and 19th centuries in 
Europe about 40% of marriages were among cousins. During someone's lifetime 
they might have travelled 20-30 miles from their home so they didn't know a lot 
of people to marry. Marrying cousins was a way to keep lands and other property 
in the family name and also seen as a way to keep blood lines pure. There is 
even an old Portuguese folk song about marrying cousins. I will ask my 85 year 
old mother and post it here. Herb

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] there is no "DE Something" surnames in portuguese

[Herb]

Ricardo while I understand your concerns, we are not trying to boil the ocean 
or cure world hunger here. We are simply trying to share our experiences and 
hopes with each other to learn what we can about our ancestors. It really is 
that simple. That's it. Herb

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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Ribeira Grande Records

[Herb]

Good morning Eliseu and thank you very much for the information. May I contact 
you off list to continue the discussion. Would it be possible for you to send 
me a copy of the record. Thank you, Herb

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Ribeira Grande Records

[Herb]

Hello 

It very well could be him. I just took another look at his death 
certificate  and it says  he died on 11 Dec 1952 at age 80.  If he was born 
in Jan 1871  and died in Dec 1952 he would have been 81 not 80 right? What 
do you make of this information Eliseu? Interesting that the Godfather was 
named Sousa and the adoptive father was named Silva but the age doesn't 
quite match up does it?

Herb

On Monday, March 31, 2014 4:05:39 PM UTC-4, Eliseu Pacheco da Silva wrote:

> HI,
>
> There is a José exposto that “fits” your José.
>
>  
>
> In the book of 1871, registry nº 24, folium 10, left, we can read:
>
>  
>
> Baptized at 8 February 1871, Matriz, Ribeira Grande. It says he was born 
> the day before. He was exposto number 1825 in the Roda da Câmara, Rua do 
> Val, Freguesia da Conceição.
>
>  
>
> He was given to be cared to Maria de Jesus married to Manuel da Silva, 
> both living at Rua Nova, Freguesia da Conceição.
>
>  
>
> Godfather was Jacinto de Sousa Galante, married man.
>
> God mother was Ana Joaquina, unmarried woman, she was enlisted to take 
> care of the expostos (The municipality paid a certain amount to those women 
> to raise the expostos given to them).
>
>  
>
>  
>
> *De:* azo...@googlegroups.com  [mailto:
> azo...@googlegroups.com ] *Em nome de *Herb
> *Enviada:* segunda-feira, 31 de Março de 2014 19:06
> *Para:* azo...@googlegroups.com 
> *Assunto:* Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Ribeira Grande Records
>
>  
>
> Hi Eliseu
>
>  
>
> I  am looking for Jose Sousa Silva who married Cecilia da Conceicao 
> Pacheco on Feb 1892.   In fact I have their  marriage record, (married in 
> Sao Jose PD) what I am looking for is his baptism  He was an "exposto da 
> roda" from NS da Estrela RG,  and I was hoping to see who the Godparents 
> were or to possibly glean some little tid bit of information that may 
> be helpful to my search.  He died in 1952 at age 80, in Sao Jose, but he 
> would have been baptized at NS da Estrela on or about 1871-1872. 
>
>  
>
> thanks
>
>  
>
> Herb
>
> On Monday, March 31, 2014 12:20:44 PM UTC-4, Eliseu Pacheco da Silva wrote:
>
> Hi! 
> Are you looking for José de Sousa Silva married to Jorgina? Son of 
> Maximino and Guilhermina from Ribeira Seca, Ribeira Grande? 
>
>
> Eliseu Pacheco da Silva 
> Researching Açores (São Miguel and Graciosa) and Alentejo 
> ( http://gw.geneanet.org/eliseumanuel ) 
>
>
> -- 
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Ribeira Grande Records

[Herb]

yes they would be part of the Ribeira Grande records

On Monday, March 31, 2014 9:55:19 AM UTC-4, Joanne wrote:
>
> João,
> I'm waiting for records from Rabo de Peixe - would they be part of this 
> site?
>
> *Joanne*
>
> *Joanne Medeiros Grota Mercier*
> Researching Bretanha (Medeiros Grota, Benevides, deSouza), Lagoa (Luiz, 
> d'Oliveira Homem) and Rabo de Peixe (Martins Gouveia)
>
>
>
> On Mar 31, 2014, at 9:33 AM, João Ventura > 
> wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> Just remembered one thing. A few of the Ribeira Grande (Matriz) records 
> are available here:
>
>
> http://arquivodigital.uac.pt/yii/arquivodigital/index.php?r=site/page&view=arg
>
> I'd already announced it on this list before, but you may have missed it.
>
> Regards,
>
> João Ventura
> http://tombo.pt/en
>
> On Sunday, 30 March 2014 16:02:39 UTC+2, Herb wrote:
>>
>> Hi Everyone
>>
>> Many of my ancestors are  from the Ribeira Grande, Sao Miguel area.  I 
>> would say that probably more are from that area of Sao Miguel than any 
>> other, with the exception of maybe the villages of Nordeste. Has anyone 
>> heard when the baptism and marriage records for  Ribeira Grande  will be 
>> posted to the CCA site?
>>
>> Herb
>>
>
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>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>  
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Ribeira Grande Records

[Herb]

Hi Eliseu

I  am looking for Jose Sousa Silva who married Cecilia da Conceicao Pacheco 
on Feb 1892.   In fact I have their  marriage record, (married in Sao Jose 
PD) what I am looking for is his baptism  He was an "exposto da roda" from 
NS da Estrela RG,  and I was hoping to see who the Godparents were or to 
possibly glean some little tid bit of information that may be helpful to my 
search.  He died in 1952 at age 80, in Sao Jose, but he would have been 
baptized at NS da Estrela on or about 1871-1872. 

thanks

Herb

On Monday, March 31, 2014 12:20:44 PM UTC-4, Eliseu Pacheco da Silva wrote:

> Hi! 
> Are you looking for José de Sousa Silva married to Jorgina? Son of 
> Maximino and Guilhermina from Ribeira Seca, Ribeira Grande? 
>
>
> Eliseu Pacheco da Silva 
> Researching Açores (São Miguel and Graciosa) and Alentejo 
> ( http://gw.geneanet.org/eliseumanuel ) 
>
>
>
>

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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Ribeira Grande Records

[Herb]

Rick thanks I think I am looking for late 1800s for my great grandfather Jose 
Sousa  Silva. I will message you. I'm going to look at some dates tomorrow. Herb

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Ribeira Grande Records

[Herb]

Thanks Cheri 

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Ribeira Grande Records

[Herb]

Joao I have thought the same thing. They must have run into some problems with 
the upload. Herb

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Ribeira Grande Records

[Herb]

Hi Everyone

Many of my ancestors are  from the Ribeira Grande, Sao Miguel area.  I 
would say that probably more are from that area of Sao Miguel than any 
other, with the exception of maybe the villages of Nordeste. Has anyone 
heard when the baptism and marriage records for  Ribeira Grande  will be 
posted to the CCA site?

Herb

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Cabral/Pimentel and Da Costa/Pimentel Probably Cousins

[Herb]

JR I look forward to your message. I have a lot of Nordeste ancestors in my 
files. Herb

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Cabral/Pimentel and Da Costa/Pimentel Probably Cousins

[Herb]

JR I remember from my earliest days on this site that we share common 
Cabral ancestors.  Did you notice on the record  Pam sent that the father's 
name appears to be Soeiro, instead of Soares.  I know that sometimes 
Portuguese people do this with names, such as when for a female the name 
Brandao becomes Brandoa or Rapozo becomes Rapoza.  You don't see it too 
much for males though.  

Anyway for this particular line, Pedor Cabral had a son named Jose, who 
married a Barbara Pimentel.  They had a son named Manuel Medeiros ( where 
Medeiros name came from I have no idea).  He was the father of my gg 
grandmother Emia Amalia da Conceicao Medeiros who married Joao Jacinto 
Brandao b.12 Aug 1855.

Herb


>
> On Monday, March 17, 2014 5:38:20 AM UTC-4, JR wrote:
>>
>> Actually Herb, the names Pimentel, Cabral and sometimes with Soares, 
>> appear quite often in Nordeste. You will see that our ancestors used the 
>> names interchangeably. Not good one way, as it confuses people, but on the 
>> other hand, great because it expands your name base and and gives clues as 
>> to whom your ancestors are, when records are missing. So I think the record 
>> Pam gave you is correct. This Cabral line may be the same as mine. Not sure 
>> yet.
>>
>> JR
>>
>> On Saturday, March 15, 2014 2:50:21 PM UTC-4, Herb wrote:
>>>
>>> Pam I saw this marriage too and sort of dismissed it because the name 
>>> was Soares. It's possible she used Pimentel too like you say. I will check 
>>> that angle especially if nothing else turns up. Thanks a lot. Herb
>>
>>
>
>
>  
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Cabral/Pimentel and Da Costa/Pimentel Probably Cousins

[Herb]

On Monday, March 17, 2014 5:38:20 AM UTC-4, JR wrote:
>
> Actually Herb, the names Pimentel, Cabral and sometimes with Soares, 
> appear quite often in Nordeste. You will see that our ancestors used the 
> names interchangeably. Not good one way, as it confuses people, but on the 
> other hand, great because it expands your name base and and gives clues as 
> to whom your ancestors are, when records are missing. So I think the record 
> Pam gave you is correct. This Cabral line may be the same as mine. Not sure 
> yet.
>
> JR
>
> On Saturday, March 15, 2014 2:50:21 PM UTC-4, Herb wrote:
>>
>> Pam I saw this marriage too and sort of dismissed it because the name was 
>> Soares. It's possible she used Pimentel too like you say. I will check that 
>> angle especially if nothing else turns up. Thanks a lot. Herb
>
>


 

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Cabral/Pimentel and Da Costa/Pimentel Probably Cousins

[Herb]

Pam I saw this marriage too and sort of dismissed it because the name was 
Soares. It's possible she used Pimentel too like you say. I will check that 
angle especially if nothing else turns up. Thanks a lot. Herb

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Cabral/Pimentel and Da Costa/Pimentel Probably Cousins

[Herb]

I think my spell checker went crazy and changed Nordeste to Northeast on 
some programs depending on what's on your computers


On Saturday, March 15, 2014 9:56:03 AM UTC-4, Herb wrote:

> Does anyone have any information on marriages of  Pedro Cabral and Maria 
> de Pimentel or Joao da Costa and Sabena de Pimentel. Their children Jose 
> Cabral and Barbara Pimentel married in Igreja de  Sao Jorge  Nordeste, Sao 
> Miguel on 8 June 1814 . 
> http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-ND-SAOJORGE-C-1783-1815/SMG-ND-SAOJORGE-C-1783-1815_item1/P224.html,
>  
> CCA # 224.
>
> I've searched  all the  marriage  records for Nordeste  from 1768 to 
> 1814.  The marriage record of Pedro and Maria  does say that the parents 
> were from the same Matriz of Sao Jorge "naturais e freguezes dest dita 
> Matriz" and I know what that means,  but  I have not been able to located 
> them after multiple sweeps through all the records
>
>
> thanks for any help.  They would be my  grandparents 
>
> Herb
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Cabral/Pimentel and Da Costa/Pimentel Probably Cousins

[Herb]

Does anyone have any information on marriages of  Pedro Cabral and Maria de 
Pimentel or Joao da Costa and Sabena de Pimentel. Their children Jose 
Cabral and Barbara Pimentel married in Igreja de  Sao Jorge  Nordeste, Sao 
Miguel on 8 June 1814 . 
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-ND-SAOJORGE-C-1783-1815/SMG-ND-SAOJORGE-C-1783-1815_item1/P224.html,
 
CCA # 224.

I've searched  all the  marriage  records for Nordeste  from 1768 to 1814.  
The marriage record of Pedro and Maria  does say that the parents were from 
the same Matriz of Sao Jorge "naturais e freguezes dest dita Matriz" and I 
know what that means,  but  I have not been able to located them after 
multiple sweeps through all the records


thanks for any help.  They would be my  grandparents 

Herb

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Santa Maria up on CCA Site

[Herb]

I think its great that all of these villages are being posted. I hope 
everyone finds all of the records they need and prat  every day for a small 
miracle to happen and the  Ribeira Grande records will some day posted. But 
I'm getting older now and gradually  losing hope. LOL


Herb

On Tuesday, February 25, 2014 2:46:25 PM UTC-5, Richard Francis Pimentel 
wrote:

> *I would also note that the rest of Sao Pedro in Vila Franca do Campo is 
> posted.*
>
>  
>
> *Rick*
>
>  
>
> *Richard Francis Pimentel*
>
> *Spring, TX*
>
>  
>
>  
>
> *From:* azo...@googlegroups.com  [mailto:
> azo...@googlegroups.com ] *On Behalf Of *nancy jean baptiste
> *Sent:* Tuesday, February 25, 2014 11:43 AM
> *To:* azores group
> *Subject:* RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Santa Maria up on CCA Site
>
>  
>
> Oh my gosh! I'm over the top happy to see Santa Maria come on line!
>  
> Nancy Jean Baptista
> Santa Maria for Cabral, Moreira, Andrade, Melo and more.
>  
> --
>
> Date: Tue, 25 Feb 2014 08:09:56 -0800
> From: ema...@resendes.ws 
> To: azo...@googlegroups.com 
> Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Santa Maria up on CCA Site
>
> CCA now has two villages from Concelho of Vila do Porto.
>
>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy]. New Study--Percentage of Jewish ancestry among Iberian population

[Herb]

Yes Eric that is essentially correct. I am familiar with the the battle of 
Ourique and the history of Portugal but I think I have made the point I wanted 
to make. We learn new things on DNA everyday. DNA  testing is still in infancy 
and we will continue to learn more in the coming years.  Knowing  the history 
of a nation and it's people allows us to better understand results of DNA 
studies and to examine those studies with a critical eye. Thanks

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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy]. New Study--Percentage of Jewish ancestry among Iberian population

[Herb]

I think the Moorish influence in Portugal has been greatly exaggerated over the 
years especially with regard to Catholicism and conversions. They had great 
influence in Spain and weren't expelled from that country until 1492 but in 
Portugal their influence was mainly in the area of commerce and architecture 
and confined primarily to the the south. Their influence on religion was minor 
at best in Portugal. By very early 1100s the Crusades had expelled the Moors 
from Southern Portugal. Boundaries were formed and those boundaries remain 
essentially the same today as they were in 1139 making Portugal the second 
oldest country in Europe,  second to Denmark in terms of having a defined 
border etc. Italy for example did not become a country until the 1800s and many 
countries in Europe were splintered into many factions and territories until 
even the 1900s. Those divisions continue to this day in many other parts of 
Europe.  

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Books from/about the Azores

[Herb]

Steve thanks for posting this information.  I  read some of the book online 
and you are correct, it is tedious. Lol.  As with many other little books 
out there on the Azores its is also has  historical inaccuracies that many 
people accept as fact..  But Walker does say that it  is devoid of any 
scientific or literary merit, so I guess its to be expected.  Thank you for 
sharing

Herb

On Friday, February 7, 2014 11:33:22 AM UTC-5, Steve Peters wrote:

> If you're into really old Azores history books, there is the classic "The 
> Azores: or Western Islands: a political, commercial, and geographic 
> account" by Walter Frederick Walker (1886). Pretty tedious as I recall, but 
> free online:
>
> https://archive.org/details/azoresorwesterni00walk
>
> "This little work [362 pages!], devoid of any kind of scientific or 
> literary merit, has been penned solely in the hope that it may prove useful 
> to those contemplating a visit to the Western Archipelago."
>
> Steve
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, February 5, 2014 12:00:44 PM UTC-8, Cheri Mello wrote:
>>
>> LOL.  I guess I need to do the same.
>>
>> For those who don't know, the book, "A History of the Azores Islands" by 
>> James H. Guill is just that - a history book.  There is some information on 
>> royal families and their genealogies, but it is NOT a genealogy book.
>>
>> Before the Internet, it was useful for the list of freguesias and the 
>> list of churches.  That can all be found on the Azores GenWeb, Family 
>> Search, or the CCA site.
>>
>> Cheri Mello
>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das 
>> Tainhas, Achada 
>>
>

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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Legitimate vs Natural

[Herb]

Excellent  and worthwhile discussion. I don't usually participate in the back 
and forth but this one has piqued my interest. Thank you to all who have teed 
it up for discussion today. Herb

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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Legitimate vs Natural

[Herb]

It's ok Hermano I don't have a Buble. Lol. I'm just not convinced entirely that 
all references to natural meant that the child was born out of wedlock . Thanks 
for your feedback. I certainly appreciate and respect everyone's opinion though 
I may not always agree. Thank you

Herb

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Legitimate vs Natural

[Herb]

I am not entirely convinced that natural meant the child was not born to 
legitimate married parents. I wish I had made note of it, but while I 
researching CCA Records I have seen numerous consecutive pages  where the 
priest wrote natural vs legitimate. Another priest would come in and write 
legitimate in his records and I think that some priests just chose to describe 
the birth this way. In my view it does not necessarily mean that the child was 
not legitimate and born to legitimate parents. Children born out of wedlock or 
to adulterous relationships in the Azores were truly the exception not the 
rule. Not all references to natural should be construed to mean that the child 
was not legitimate and born to married parents. Some priests simply described 
it differently. That's my view based on my experience doing research and my 
understanding of Portuguese/Azorean culture. 

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Sao Roque Marriage 1652

[Herb]

Amazing.  Thank you Manoel.  Apparently Miguel Martins daughter was  was 
only 17 when she married.

Herb

On Monday, January 27, 2014 1:00:53 PM UTC-5, mc6...@gmail.com wrote:

> Herb,
>
> Miguel Martins and Isabel de Sousa married in São Roque on 14 sep 1635 
> (CCA #21).
> He is the son of Manuel Martins and Maria Alvares, from São Roque
> She is the dau. of Manuel Vaz de Sousa and Maria Gomes, from Maia
>
> Manoel
>
> Em segunda-feira, 27 de janeiro de 2014 15h50min04s UTC-2, Herb escreveu:
>>
>> Thank you Cheri and Maria Natalia.  I will do some crosschecks with the 
>> Povoacao records but it looks right. The wash solution makes it even 
>> tougher than usual. That's pretty good reading for not having any caffeine. 
>> Herb
>>
>>
>>
>> On Monday, January 27, 2014 12:04:20 PM UTC-5, Cheri Mello wrote:
>>
>>> Lovely.  One with the wash/solution on it.  When they came by to film in 
>>> the 1980s, the camera picked up the solution.  The Ponta Delgada archives 
>>> did not scan the books (which I believe eliminated this problem).  They 
>>> scanned the film. So we have to put up with the wash/solution.
>>>
>>> The groom looks like Ignacio da Costa, son of Manuel (M.el) Ferreira?? 
>>> (F.ra?) and of his wife, Isabel Cord... (Cordeiro?).   The bride is _ 
>>> de Arruda, daughter of Miguel M.iz?? (Martins) and Isabel de Sousa.
>>>
>>> That's my best take on it.  Before 10 a.m.  Before caffeine.  LOL
>>>
>>> Cheri Mello
>>> Listowner, Azores-Gen
>>> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das 
>>> Tainhas, Achada 
>>>
>>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Sao Roque Marriage 1652

[Herb]

Thank you Cheri and Maria Natalia.  I will do some crosschecks with the 
Povoacao records but it looks right. The wash solution makes it even 
tougher than usual. That's pretty good reading for not having any caffeine. 
Herb



On Monday, January 27, 2014 12:04:20 PM UTC-5, Cheri Mello wrote:

> Lovely.  One with the wash/solution on it.  When they came by to film in 
> the 1980s, the camera picked up the solution.  The Ponta Delgada archives 
> did not scan the books (which I believe eliminated this problem).  They 
> scanned the film. So we have to put up with the wash/solution.
>
> The groom looks like Ignacio da Costa, son of Manuel (M.el) Ferreira?? 
> (F.ra?) and of his wife, Isabel Cord... (Cordeiro?).   The bride is _ 
> de Arruda, daughter of Miguel M.iz?? (Martins) and Isabel de Sousa.
>
> That's my best take on it.  Before 10 a.m.  Before caffeine.  LOL
>
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das 
> Tainhas, Achada 
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Sao Roque Marriage 1652

[Herb]

Hello 

http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-SAOROQUE-C-1622-1707/SMG-PD-SAOROQUE-C-1622-1707_item1/P60.html


I was wondering if someone might be able to put a second set of eyes on 
this marriage record from 11 March  1652 in Sao Roque Sao Miguel? It is on 
 the top right hand side.  The groom's name appears to be Ignacio da Costa 
and his parents possibly as Francisco de  and Isabel Correia or 
Cordeira, Cordeiro???,  and the bride's name looks like Maria D'Arruda and  
her parents as Miguel ??? and Isabel de Sousa???


thanks in advance for your help



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Re: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] A Sao Pedro, Ponta Delgada Family

[Herb and Judi Silva]

 Manoel Please take a look at this record. Maria de Jesus also known as Maria Nascimento was apparently  also known as  Maria Natividade.  This Bernardo Pereira was the brother of Maria Encarnacao. http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-SAOPEDRO-B-1808-1815/SMG-PD-SAOPEDRO-B-1808-1815_item1/P51.htmlOn 01/19/14, Manoel Cesar<mances@gmail.com> wrote: Herb,I think your Maria de Jesus is the same Maria do Nascimento who married Manuel Pereira on 18 oct 1807 in São Pedro, Ponta Delgada:http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-PD-SAOPEDRO-C-1802-1823/SMG-PD-SAOPEDRO-C-1802-1823_item1/P57.htmlShe is the daughter of Manuel de Lima and Francisca de Jesus.What you have to do is to look all over the marriage records for São Pedro in this time period and see if there´s no other Manuel Pereira marrying another Maria.And you also have to search for all the children born to this couple and if there is no other Manuel Pereira having chidren at this time period.In the Canto index for São Pedro marriages, this Manuel Pereira is the only one I found from 1800 to 1830.Manoel  2014/1/19 Herb <herbandjudi@verizon.net>Has anyone come across a Manuel Pereira and Maria de Jesus who were from Sao Pedro in Ponta Delgada? I have been searching for their wedding or baptism records.  I have also searched for their obituaries with no success. Both were very common names which makes the search especially difficult.  Manuel is listed as my gg grandmother's  ( Maria da Encarnacao) father and he died before 1 Aug 1857.  I did learn from a list member a couple of months ago,  that his daughter  Maria de Encarnacao married Manuel de Medeiros who was from Sao Jorge, Nordeste on 31 Oct 1847. The marriage took place in Sao Pedro Ponta Delgada. The trail goes cold after that,  and I am trying to locate Manuel Pereira's parents or his wife Maria De Jesus's parents. I would estimate that both were born circa 1820-1830.  Any help is appreciated Herb-- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."--- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to azores+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com.Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.-- Manoel Cesar Furtadomances@gmail.com -- For options, such as changing to List, Digest, Abridged, or No Mail (vacation) mode, log into your Google account and visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/Azores. Click in the blue area on the right that says "Join this group" and it will take you to "Edit my membership."--- You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google Groups "Azores Genealogy" group.To unsubscribe from this topic, visit https://groups.google.com/d/topic/azores/70rCv7TEQUs/unsubscribe.To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to azores+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to azores@googlegroups.com.Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/azores.



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[AZORES-Genealogy] A Sao Pedro, Ponta Delgada Family

[Herb]

Has anyone come across a Manuel Pereira and Maria de Jesus who were from 
Sao Pedro in Ponta Delgada? I have been searching for their wedding or 
baptism records.  I have also searched for their obituaries with no 
success. Both were very common names which makes the search especially 
difficult.
 
 Manuel is listed as my gg grandmother's  ( Maria da Encarnacao) father and 
he died before 1 Aug 1857.  I did learn from a list member a couple of 
months ago,  that his daughter  Maria de Encarnacao married Manuel de 
Medeiros who was from Sao Jorge, Nordeste on 31 Oct 1847. The marriage took 
place in Sao Pedro Ponta Delgada. The trail goes cold after that,  and I am 
trying to locate Manuel Pereira's parents or his wife Maria De Jesus's 
parents. I would estimate that both were born circa 1820-1830.
 
 
Any help is appreciated
 
Herb

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Vieira Galvao on Sao Miguel

[Herb]

Happy New Year everyone.  I have a Francisco Vieira Galvao too but he was 
married to a Monica Brandao de Teve.  Monica was the daughter of Antonio 
Brandao de Teve. My   Antonio Brandao de Teve was married to an  Isabel 
Oliveira Vasconcelos. 
 
Herb
 

On Sunday, December 29, 2013 1:28:32 PM UTC-5, Cheri Mello wrote:

> Post your Vieira Galvao messages to THIS thread.  I've already explained 
> this.
> Thanks for understanding,
> Cheri Mello
> Listowner, Azores-Gen
> Researching: Vila Franca, Ponta Garca, Ribeira Quente, Ribeira das 
> Tainhas, Achada
> --
> Repost for Shirley Allegre, shirldg at digitalpath.net
>
> Did Manuel X Catarina have a daughter by the name of Isabel Vieira Galvao 
> that married Antonio Brandao da Teve on 25 August 1627 in Fenais de Ajuda, 
> Sao Miguel island?
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] European Portuguese?

[Herb]

The best place to learn new languages is the local library. If you live near a 
good sized library they will have books and CDs and DVDs even the old cassette 
tapes. My wife learned a lot of European Portuguese by borrowing these 
materials from the library.  Good luck.. Herb

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Manue dos Santos Marriage 18 Dec 1788 Agua do Pau ( CCA#105)

[Herb]

Thank you Cheri. I did not know that Margaret and I had a DNA connection. 
Margaret may I privately send you a copy of my pedigree and we can compare and 
see the connections.. If I am not mistaken my Gedcom is posted to the family 
tree DNA site. Thanks, Herb Silva

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Manue dos Santos Marriage 18 Dec 1788 Agua do Pau ( CCA#105)

[Herb]

Hello.  My wife is shopping so I took this opportunity to do a little bit 
of research.  There are 26 shoppng days left anyway, plenty of time. 
 
*http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-AGUADEPAU-C-1769-1808/SMG-LG-AGUADEPAU-C-1769-1808_item1/P106.html*<http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-AGUADEPAU-C-1769-1808/SMG-LG-AGUADEPAU-C-1769-1808_item1/P106.html>
 
Can anyone make out the first name of the viuvo's wife in this record.  It 
looks like her  last name was  Payva or Paiva. It is difficut to tell.  
Could it be Severa de Payva, maybe Maria de Payva? or Paiva
 
  She was "sepultada" buried in the church.  His second wife was 
Ana Jacinta Oliveira.  If I knew the first wife's full name I may be able 
to locate that marriage and find Manuel's parents names which likley also 
took place in Agua de Pau
 
Thank you
 
Herb
 
 
http://culturacores.azores.gov.pt/biblioteca_digital/SMG-LG-AGUADEPAU-C-1769-1808/SMG-LG-AGUADEPAU-C-1769-1808_item1/P106.html

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Ribeira Grande Records on CCA

[Herb]

Thank you all

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Ribeira Grande Records on CCA

[Herb]

Does anyone know when the Ribeira Grande, Sao Miguel records will be posted 
to the CCA site?  Herb

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Transferring from PAF to Family Tree Maker or Legacy

[Herb]

Does anyone know how to transfer PAF files to Legacy or Family Tree Maker 
without losing the PAF. Recently on one of my computers  I transferred my 
PAF to Legacy.  Everything transferred ok, but the PAF is now gone 
forever.  I cant find it anywhere on my computer. I know that LDS took away 
support for PAF recently but that should hav eno bearing on a transfer.
 
  So now I want to do the same with one of my other computers  and transfer 
PAF  to  Family Tree Maker, but I am afraid that after the transfer the PAF 
will disappear as it did when I transferred to legacy.  The idea is to have 
redundant backups but I don't want to gain one and lose one.
 
I back up everything to Carbonite, but PAF is not supported on Carbonite 
because of the type of file it is  Carbonite will save it but does not 
allow it open. Any ideas or suggestions. I am not a big fan of Legacy by 
the way.  Over the years I have found that for me, PAF is by far the best 
method for storing information. 
 
Herb

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Brandao/Mendonca Marriage Sao Jorge Nordeste

[herb]

Yes it was a typo. They were married in Jan 1819. Thanks Pam

Herb

Sent from my iPhone

On Sep 8, 2013, at 12:48 PM, Pam Santos  wrote:

> Was that a typo because the marriage shows 20 January 1819, not May 20, 1819
> 
> 
> On Sun, Sep 8, 2013 at 9:37 AM, Herb  wrote:
>> Thank you Eliseu. This is helpful. The record may also help others who are 
>> related to the Nordeste Brandaos and Mendoncas. Herb
>> 
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RE: [AZORES-Genealogy] Brandao/Mendonca Marriage Sao Jorge Nordeste

[Herb]

Thank you Eliseu. This is helpful. The record may also help others who are 
related to the Nordeste Brandaos and Mendoncas. Herb

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Azores Pyramid Puzzle - Inhabited Earlier Than Thought.

[Herb]

Eric
 
The practice of stacking the rocks  likely  goes back to the Alans  who 
conquered and  inhabited the Iberian Peninsula including Lusitania in the 
early 400's.
 
There are still some vestiges of the Alans in Portugal, namely Alenquer in  
(whose name may be Germanic for the *Temple of the Alans)* and whose castle 
may have been established by them; the 
*Alaunt*<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alaunt>is still represented in that 
city's coat of arms), in the construction of 
the castles of *Torres 
Vedras*<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castelo_de_Torres_Vedras>and 
*Almourol* <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castle_of_Almourol>, and in the 
city walls of *Lisbon* <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lisbon>, where 
vestiges of their presence may be found under the foundations of the *Church 
of Santa Luzia*<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Igreja_de_Santa_Luzia_(Lisbon)>.  
The Portuguese settlers of the Azores brought this practice of stacking 
rocks to divide their lands with them  to the Azores.  You also see this 
throughout Great Britain.  
 
Herb
 
 

On Friday, September 6, 2013 7:19:25 PM UTC-4, E Sharp wrote:

> This is REAL interesting.
>  
> http://www.algarveresident.com/0-54889/algarve/azores-pyramids-puzzle
>  
> "E"
>  
>  
>

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Pronunciation, Lisbon vs. Sao Miguel Portuguese

[Herb]

Hi David
 
I was born in Sao Miguel and still speak Portuguese with the Sao Miguel 
accent.  It sounds absolutely nothing like Brazilian Portuguese 
pronunciation. Its like night and day David. In fact many Azoreans 
have great difficulty understanding a Brazilian speaker.  I delved a bit 
into all of this when I took some linguistic courses while pursuing my 
undergarduate degree. I have always been fascinated by languages. Two facts 
are in evidence.  One concerns the pronunciation of the  Portuguese 
language as spoken in Sao Miguel where several peculiarities remind the 
listener of French. The two most striking of these characteristics are the 
pronunciation depicted by the letter u ( escudo, Furnas) as u in the French 
tu and the sound depicted in the French dipthongs ou and oi ( ouro, noite 
as the eu or French peu (foot), roughly the ur of New England, "Burt".  The 
French sounds in the Michalense ( Sao Miguel) pronunciation could be due to 
French influnce on parts of the island.  The village known as Bretanha may 
have been settled by Bretons from Brittanny France, possibly ship wrecked 
sailors. At the western end of Sao Miguel there is a place called Ginetes, 
probably so called from a famous breed of jennets for which the island was 
noted.  The name reminds of the French word jenet " heather" as in the 
English Royal House of Plantagenet ( ruled 1154-1399).  The so called 
French u also exists in Corvo and parts of  Madeira. The French u and eu 
are heard in Continental Portugal specifically in the region known as the 
Upper Alentejo where the families of many Azoreans originated. Some 
scholars say that if it had been washed up Breton sailors or fishermen or 
sailors or pirates at the end of the 16th century they would have Celtic 
speaking and not French speaking. So maybe in order to confirm or deny the 
theory of Breton influence we must examine the Celtic phonological system.  
Having said all that David, there is no concrete evidence that Frenchmen 
did so settle, much less influence the pronunciation of Michaelense.  The 
matter of pronumnciation  impinges on that of provenience.  Lingustic 
evidence  however, strongly suggests that the early setllers of Sao Miguel 
came from southern Portugal from the Algarve region and from Upper Alentejo 
and it is the pronunciation  from those regions that influenced 
Michaelense. Still others hold to the French theory.
 
I hope this helps at least partially explain the Portuguese language 
pronumciation as spoken in Sao Miguel.
 
 
Herb

On Friday, July 12, 2013 4:10:06 PM UTC-4, David Perry wrote:

> I'm starting to learn Portuguese and everything I see and hear doesn't 
> sound at all like what I remember as a child while listening to my born in 
> Sao Miguel father talking to his relatives and neighbors, all of whom spoke 
> only Portuguese.  For instance, I specifically remember very well two 
> words:  "legs" which my father pronounced pad-nish (doesn't sound at all 
> like what I see in a dictionary - pernas) and chourico which my father 
> pronounced shoo-dees.  How different is the Sao Miguel Portuguese from 
> Lisbon Portuguese?  Are there a few general rules I can follow such as "r's 
> sound like d's" or "drop the ending vowel" as in the two examples above?
> David   
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] maiden names

[Herb]

Hi Richard
 
Not sure if you know this, but the Master Genealogists Software is from an 
"Unknown Publisher" and the actual certificate is not registered.
 
Herb
 

On Saturday, May 18, 2013 6:58:42 AM UTC-4, Richard Francis Pimentel wrote:

> *Women’s names have always been a problem. I always record the way the 
> name appears in the record with a custom fact “Recorded Name” The actual 
> way I list in my program as the primary name is a reflection of the 
> preponderance of those names. *
>
> * *
>
> *For example I have a Maria at birth later I find her name recorded as 
> Maria de Jesus five times and Maria Moniz five times and Maria da Conceicao 
> once. I would list her primary name as Maria de Jesus Moniz and only make a 
> note of Maria da Conceicao. *
>
> * *
>
> *I have switched from FTM to The Master Genealogist  (TMGT) and now can 
> have all names come up in sort lists. Her name would appear in Bold print 
> Maria de Jesus Moniz and in lighter print Maria de Jesus and also as Maria 
> Moniz. *
>
> * *
>
> *How your genealogy program handles names especially woman’s names is 
> important when selecting a genealogy program to use.*
>
> * *
>
> *One further thing I never assign a married name or tell a genealogy 
> program to use married names. If I find a woman as Maria de Jesus that is 
> how her name appears I do not tack on her husband’s family name.*
>
> * *
>
> *Once again TMG handles the listing of names quite well.*
>
> * *
>
> *Rick*
>
> * *
>
> *Richard Francis Pimentel*
>
> *Spring, TX*
>
> *Formerly of Epping, New Hampshire *
>
> * *
>
> *Researching, Riberia Grande, Riberinha, Achada Grande,  Bretanha, and 
> Ponta Delgada,  Sao Miguel, Acores*
>
> * *
>
> *From:* azo...@googlegroups.com  [mailto:
> azo...@googlegroups.com ] *On Behalf Of 
> *pi...@dholmes.com
> *Sent:* Friday, May 17, 2013 9:30 PM
> *To:* azo...@googlegroups.com 
> *Subject:* [AZORES-Genealogy] maiden names
>
>  
>
> I would like to know the opinions of others about how to enter surnames 
> for women.
>
>  
>
> I always enter the maiden names, but often or usually (in the late 1800s 
> to present time) women have adopted their new husband's name and are listed 
> as such in the records.
>
> For example, Maria José is married in 1888 (I am just making all this up) 
> and married António Vieira Borba, so is listed as Maria José Borba.
>
> Her parents are listed as José Inácio Parreira and Faustina Cândida. 
>
>  
>
> So what do you do? Are you going to call her Maria José Borba in your 
> genealogy program? It would certainly be valid since that is what the 
> priest recorded.
>
> But I don't do it if I already know her ancestry and it doesn't include 
> Borba. I call her just Maria José. And if in the future I ever see her 
> listed as Maria José Parreira, I will add in Parreira to her name.
>
> If I don't yet know her ancestry, I enter her with Borba, pending further 
> research that reveals her ancestry. If not found in her ancestry, then I 
> remove Borba.
>
>  
>
> Another example, in case I am not clear with the above:
>
>  
>
> Amélia de Jesus married in 1897 (another I am just creating now). Her 
> husband is Amaro José da Silveira. So she is listed as Amélia de Jesus 
> Silveira.
>
> Her parents are Inácio Vitorino de Sousa and Paula Josefa.
>
>  
>
> I would list her as Amélia de Jesus Silveira, but pending further 
> research, since her parents don't use it. 
>
> If I found that her maternal ancestry includes Silveira, I would keep 
> Silveira as listed. But if she had no Silveira, I would then remove it once 
> I made that discovery.
>
>  
>
> What would you do?
>
>  
>
> One often finds, but certainly not always, that this lady has children and 
> is not listed with her husband's family name. That might also be where her 
> own ancestral name is found once or twice.
>
>  
>
> One final thing. At death, if the woman has adopted the surname of the 
> husband when married, she is usually listed with her married name in the 
> death record.
>
>  
>
> In my opinion, one must always note exactly how each person is listed, but 
> when you want to know her maiden name, you can't include the one used after 
> she married.
>
> And I always put just her maiden name in the genealogy program, along with 
> all the notes about how she is listed throughout her life.
>
> It starts with her at birth, continues with her name as godmother before 
> she married, name at marriage, name used for any children at their 
> baptisms, name used as godmother already married,

[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: computer help

[Herb]

thanks Pam,  I tried that awhile back.  When I right click on it,
nothing happens and when I go to file and click on properies, nothing
happens, But thanks for trying I really appreciate it. Some of these
computer mysteries are baffling. LOL. Amazing how a file can make
itself read only. take care.. Herb

On Mar 16, 1:11 pm, Pam Santos  wrote:
> Well if you right click on the file and go to properties, and general tab,
> uncheck the read only and click apply that should help.
>
>
>
> On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 7:34 AM, Herb  wrote:
> > hi Pam I'm having the same prolem wih my .PAF.  Somehow it made itself
> > into a "read only" and I havent been able to fix it.
>
> > Herb
>
> > On Mar 14, 4:23 pm, Pam Santos  wrote:
> > > Grr okay I didn't close my family treemaker when shutting down computer,
> > I
> > > was in a rush. The back up won't open up. So I used the backup on disk,
> > but
> > > it only shows read only, I have tried to uncheck that but keep getting
> > > error. Any help would be greatly appreciate.
>
> > > Pam
>
> > --
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> > quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: computer help

[Herb]

hi Pam I'm having the same prolem wih my .PAF.  Somehow it made itself
into a "read only" and I havent been able to fix it.

Herb

On Mar 14, 4:23 pm, Pam Santos  wrote:
> Grr okay I didn't close my family treemaker when shutting down computer, I
> was in a rush. The back up won't open up. So I used the backup on disk, but
> it only shows read only, I have tried to uncheck that but keep getting
> error. Any help would be greatly appreciate.
>
> Pam

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: NORDESTE - António de Arruda e Teresa Rebelo

[Herb]

Eliseu.  I think you may have asked this question on the Arrudas of
Nordeste previously.
.
Not only do I have Arruda from Nordeste, I am an Arruda. My mother's
maiden name is Arruda, She was born in Nordeste.  My great grandfather
x8 was Antonio Arruda married to Maria Estrela in late 1700s.  They
had a son named Francisco Cabral Arruda born abt. 1810 in Nordeste,
married Francisca Rapoza 18 Nov 1831. Maybe your Antonio Arruda was my
Antonio Arruda's grandfather? It's possible, but there are lots of
Arrudas throughout the villages of the county of  Nordeste.

Herb Silva

On Mar 14, 3:41 pm, "Eliseu Silva"  wrote:
> Hi group,
>
> António de Arruda married Teresa Rebelo in February 26, 1733, Achada Grande,
> NORDESTE, S. Miguel, Açores. He was born at S. Pedro Nordestino – NORDESTE.
> He is my 8th greatgrandfather and a brickwall too.
>
> Does anyone has ARRUDA from Nordeste?
>
> Eliseu Pacheco da Silva
>
> Researching S. Miguel and Graciosa: PACHECO, ARRUDA, SILVA, SOUSA,
> BETTENCOURT
>
> Azores Genealogy Group - I am proud of my membership!!! Thanks Cheri!!!

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[AZORES-Genealogy] 3 priests at wedding

[Herb]

Was it unusual  to have 3 priests attend a wedding.  Two priests were from 
Rabo de Peixe parrish of Bom Jesus and are listed as testemunhas " 
witnesses" and the other priest was from Nossa Senhora dos Prazeres, Pico 
da Pedra. This is from early 1800s. Was it because it was a respected  
family in the community or perhaps the bride and groom didn't have 2 
witnesses.  
 
Just curious if anyone might have some thoughts or insights on this.  
Thanks, Herb

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[AZORES-Genealogy] PAF

[Herb]

Does anyone in the group know where I can find some instructions for 
exporting a Personal Ancestry File from one computer to another.  I want to 
export my PAF to my wife's laptop as another backup measure, and also for 
her to have it because I have entered alot of her family's ancestry as 
well. I tried exporting earlier today but there's all kinds of options 
and I don't know which ones to follow or how to go about it. Do I send it 
to her email adress? Thank you..  Herb 

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Translation Help

[Herb]

Thanks again Hermano and Mara.  You guys have been great and your kindness 
will not be forgotten. My eyes are not what they used to be and its a 
struggle at times especially with some  of the tougher  films..Herb Silva
 
 

On Saturday, December 15, 2012 7:49:04 PM UTC-5, Hermano C. Pires wrote:

>  Hello Herb.
> Hello Heb
> I'll try again!
> Here is what I think that I can make out.
>  
> Aos vinte e seis dias do mes de Marco do ano de mil oito centos e secenta 
> e nove nesta Igreja Parochial do Santo Bom Jesus do lugar de Rabo de Peixe 
> Concelho ??? da Ribeira Grande Diocese de Angra batisei solenemente um 
> individuo do sexo masculino a quem deu o nome de Manuel e pais moradores 
> nesta Freguesia as doze horas da manha de vinte do corrente mes e ano filho 
> legitimo de Jose do Amaral campones e de Rosa Jacinta fiadeira.
> Nasty one!
> The rest has been covered  I think, so I' stop here.
> Hope that helps.
> God Bless.
> Hermano
>
>  
>  --
> Date: Sat, 15 Dec 2012 09:18:47 -0500
> Subject: Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Translation Help
> From: margare...@gmail.com 
> To: azo...@googlegroups.com 
>
> sorry Herb, I see something like a date at the bottom of the first page 
> but can't discern it because of the smudged writing.  I also looked for the 
> word "nasceu" and couldn't see it also...perhaps someone else will be able 
> to help. 
>
> Mara
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 7:26 PM, Herb  >wrote:
>
> Thank you so much Hermano and Mara. I really appreciate it. Does it show 
> the actual date of birth?  I think it says the baprism was on 26 May1869, 
> but I can't find the birthn date.
>  
> Herb
>  
> On Thursday, December 13, 2012 9:02:37 PM UTC-5, Hermano C. Pires wrote:
>
>   Hello Herb
> Here is what I can make out:
> Manuel son of Jose  do Amaral and Rosa Jacinta, paternal grandparents Jose 
> do Amaral and Francisca Rosa and maternal grandparents Pedro da Silva and 
> Barbara Francisca. Godfather Jose Joaquim da Costa and godmother Francisca 
> de Jesus.
> Hope that helps.
> Hermano
>   --
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:29:30 -0800
> From: herba...@verizon.net
> To: azo...@googlegroups.com 
>
> Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Translation Help
>
> I spent several hours today at the FHC here in Virginia where I live. I 
> finally found the record I was looking for but I couldn't make it out 
> completely.  I can read Portuguese, what I don't have is good eyesight. I 
> asked the Vounteer if I could print the record but was told the printer has 
> been out of order for years with no plans to repair it.  The only thing I 
> could do was take a photo with my I phone ( attached)and hope I can somehow 
> make out all the names at a later time. 
>  
>   
> Aos vinte seis dias do mes de Marco do ano de mil oite centos e sesenta e 
> nove nesta igreja Parochial de Bom Jesus de Rabo de Peixe,  conselho de 
> Ribeira Grande, Diocesa de Angra, nasceu solemente um indidividuo do sexo 
> masculino, que dao o nome  de Manuel, filho legitimo de Jose Amaral, 
> campones,  e de Rosa Jacinta, domestica, neto paterno de Jose De Amaral e 
> (Francisca Rosa ???) e materno de () e Barbara ???. Foi padrinho Jose 
> Joaquin da Costa casado.
>  
>  
> Anyway the translation goes like this.  
>  
>  
> On the 26th of March of the year 1869, in this parish of Bom Jesus, Rabo 
> de Peixe, county of Ribeira Grande, Diocese of Angra do Heroismo ( the 
> diocese seat is in Terceira) was born an individual of the masculine sex 
> who was given the name of Manuel, legitimate son of Jose Amaral, 
> laborer/farmer and Rosa Jacinta, domestic, paternal grandson of Jose de 
> Amaral and Francisca Rosa??? and maternal grandson of  and Barbara???.  
> The godftaher was Jose Joaquim da Costa, married laborer/farmer.
>  
> I was hoping soemnone in the group might be able to discern the names, I 
> can't.  It's a shame because i can make out pretyy much the entire 
> document, but not all of the names. anyway I thought I would give it a shot 
> and ask.
>  
> thanks
>  
> Herb
>  
>  
>
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Translation Help

[Herb]

Thank you Mara.  One of the names looks like Felix da Silva, not Pedro.  
Like you said perhaps someone may be able to discern it.
 
Herb
 

On Saturday, December 15, 2012 9:18:47 AM UTC-5, Mara wrote:

> sorry Herb, I see something like a date at the bottom of the first page 
> but can't discern it because of the smudged writing.  I also looked for the 
> word "nasceu" and couldn't see it also...perhaps someone else will be able 
> to help. 
>
> Mara
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 14, 2012 at 7:26 PM, Herb  >wrote:
>
>> Thank you so much Hermano and Mara. I really appreciate it. Does it show 
>> the actual date of birth?  I think it says the baprism was on 26 May1869, 
>> but I can't find the birthn date.
>>  
>> Herb
>>  
>> On Thursday, December 13, 2012 9:02:37 PM UTC-5, Hermano C. Pires wrote:
>>
>>>   Hello Herb
>>> Here is what I can make out:
>>> Manuel son of Jose  do Amaral and Rosa Jacinta, paternal grandparents 
>>> Jose do Amaral and Francisca Rosa and maternal grandparents Pedro da Silva 
>>> and Barbara Francisca. Godfather Jose Joaquim da Costa and godmother 
>>> Francisca de Jesus.
>>> Hope that helps.
>>> Hermano
>>>   --
>>> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:29:30 -0800
>>> From: herba...@verizon.net
>>> To: azo...@googlegroups.com 
>>>
>>> Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Translation Help
>>>
>>> I spent several hours today at the FHC here in Virginia where I live. I 
>>> finally found the record I was looking for but I couldn't make it out 
>>> completely.  I can read Portuguese, what I don't have is good eyesight. I 
>>> asked the Vounteer if I could print the record but was told the printer has 
>>> been out of order for years with no plans to repair it.  The only thing I 
>>> could do was take a photo with my I phone ( attached)and hope I can somehow 
>>> make out all the names at a later time. 
>>>  
>>>   
>>> Aos vinte seis dias do mes de Marco do ano de mil oite centos e sesenta 
>>> e nove nesta igreja Parochial de Bom Jesus de Rabo de Peixe,  conselho de 
>>> Ribeira Grande, Diocesa de Angra, nasceu solemente um indidividuo do sexo 
>>> masculino, que dao o nome  de Manuel, filho legitimo de Jose Amaral, 
>>> campones,  e de Rosa Jacinta, domestica, neto paterno de Jose De Amaral e 
>>> (Francisca Rosa ???) e materno de () e Barbara ???. Foi padrinho Jose 
>>> Joaquin da Costa casado.
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Anyway the translation goes like this.  
>>>  
>>>  
>>> On the 26th of March of the year 1869, in this parish of Bom Jesus, Rabo 
>>> de Peixe, county of Ribeira Grande, Diocese of Angra do Heroismo ( the 
>>> diocese seat is in Terceira) was born an individual of the masculine sex 
>>> who was given the name of Manuel, legitimate son of Jose Amaral, 
>>> laborer/farmer and Rosa Jacinta, domestic, paternal grandson of Jose de 
>>> Amaral and Francisca Rosa??? and maternal grandson of  and Barbara???.  
>>> The godftaher was Jose Joaquim da Costa, married laborer/farmer.
>>>  
>>> I was hoping soemnone in the group might be able to discern the names, I 
>>> can't.  It's a shame because i can make out pretyy much the entire 
>>> document, but not all of the names. anyway I thought I would give it a shot 
>>> and ask.
>>>  
>>> thanks
>>>  
>>> Herb
>>>  
>>>  
>>>
>>> -- 
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>
>
>
> -- 
> Margaret M Vicente
>

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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Translation Help

[Herb]

Thank you so much Hermano and Mara. I really appreciate it. Does it show 
the actual date of birth?  I think it says the baprism was on 26 May1869, 
but I can't find the birthn date.
 
Herb

On Thursday, December 13, 2012 9:02:37 PM UTC-5, Hermano C. Pires wrote:

>  Hello Herb
> Here is what I can make out:
> Manuel son of Jose  do Amaral and Rosa Jacinta, paternal grandparents Jose 
> do Amaral and Francisca Rosa and maternal grandparents Pedro da Silva and 
> Barbara Francisca. Godfather Jose Joaquim da Costa and godmother Francisca 
> de Jesus.
> Hope that helps.
> Hermano
>  --
> Date: Thu, 13 Dec 2012 17:29:30 -0800
> From: herba...@verizon.net 
> To: azo...@googlegroups.com 
> Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Translation Help
>
> I spent several hours today at the FHC here in Virginia where I live. I 
> finally found the record I was looking for but I couldn't make it out 
> completely.  I can read Portuguese, what I don't have is good eyesight. I 
> asked the Vounteer if I could print the record but was told the printer has 
> been out of order for years with no plans to repair it.  The only thing I 
> could do was take a photo with my I phone ( attached)and hope I can somehow 
> make out all the names at a later time. 
>  
>   
> Aos vinte seis dias do mes de Marco do ano de mil oite centos e sesenta e 
> nove nesta igreja Parochial de Bom Jesus de Rabo de Peixe,  conselho de 
> Ribeira Grande, Diocesa de Angra, nasceu solemente um indidividuo do sexo 
> masculino, que dao o nome  de Manuel, filho legitimo de Jose Amaral, 
> campones,  e de Rosa Jacinta, domestica, neto paterno de Jose De Amaral e 
> (Francisca Rosa ???) e materno de () e Barbara ???. Foi padrinho Jose 
> Joaquin da Costa casado.
>  
>  
> Anyway the translation goes like this.  
>  
>  
> On the 26th of March of the year 1869, in this parish of Bom Jesus, Rabo 
> de Peixe, county of Ribeira Grande, Diocese of Angra do Heroismo ( the 
> diocese seat is in Terceira) was born an individual of the masculine sex 
> who was given the name of Manuel, legitimate son of Jose Amaral, 
> laborer/farmer and Rosa Jacinta, domestic, paternal grandson of Jose de 
> Amaral and Francisca Rosa??? and maternal grandson of  and Barbara???.  
> The godftaher was Jose Joaquim da Costa, married laborer/farmer.
>  
> I was hoping soemnone in the group might be able to discern the names, I 
> can't.  It's a shame because i can make out pretyy much the entire 
> document, but not all of the names. anyway I thought I would give it a shot 
> and ask.
>  
> thanks
>  
> Herb
>  
>  
>
> -- 
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Re: [AZORES-Genealogy] Sao Vicente Ferreira, Ponta Delgada

[Herb]

thank you very kindly Bruce and Cheri for your help
 
Herb

On Tuesday, November 27, 2012 6:22:07 AM UTC-5, Bruce Tavares wrote:

>  While on vacation in Ponta Delgada in 2011 I was able to locate the 
> Baptismal record book for the Village of Agua de Pau from 1873. There is a 
> room on the second floor of the bibliotheca [library] where you give the 
> worker the village name and the year and they bring you the original record 
> book from that village/year. They let you look through it and they will 
> make copies for you while you wait. 
>  
> I'm sure that the record book for the Village of Sao Vicente Ferreira for 
> that year is available at the bibliotheca. I have a co-worker who was born 
> in that village and I visited it and took a few photos for him. It is very 
> beautiful, on the north coast of Sao Miguel.
>  
> Take care,
>  
> Bruce Tavares
>  
> [Researching Tavares in Villa de Agua de Pau]
>  
>  --
> Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2012 07:10:06 -0800
> From: herba...@verizon.net 
> To: azo...@googlegroups.com 
> Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Sao Vicente Ferreira, Ponta Delgada
>
> Hi all and Merry Christmas
>  
> The LDS films for Sao Vicente Ferreira, Ponta Delgada,  Sao Miguel only go 
> up to 1881.  I need informaton from 1883. i am looking for baptism and 
> names of parents for Carolina Pereira born in 1883.  Does anyone know if 
> the Biblioteca  and Arquivo in Ponta Delgada would have records for 1883 or 
> where I might find this info.
>  
> thanks 
>  
> Herb Silva
>
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[AZORES-Genealogy] Sao Vicente Ferreira, Ponta Delgada

[Herb]

Hi all and Merry Christmas
 
The LDS films for Sao Vicente Ferreira, Ponta Delgada,  Sao Miguel only go 
up to 1881.  I need informaton from 1883. i am looking for baptism and 
names of parents for Carolina Pereira born in 1883.  Does anyone know if 
the Biblioteca  and Arquivo in Ponta Delgada would have records for 1883 or 
where I might find this info.
 
thanks 
 
Herb Silva

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Ponta Delgada records

[Herb]

Hi Azores group
 
Does anyone in the group know when the rest of the Ponta Delgada records 
will be uploaded to the CCA site?  The only records on there now are for 
Bretanaha and Arrifes. Also somehow or other my PAF turned itself into a 
"read only".  I have no idea how that happened but it won't allow me to 
enter any new information.  Could be my PC is a bit outdated, Anyway it's a 
mystery to me, I have no idea how that happened or how to change it back.  
Any ideas. It could be something obvious but I have not been able to figure 
it out. Herb

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Da Ponte and China Families

[Herb]

what is your name? Augusto's son  Francisco was the brother of
Manuel.  Manuel is the great grandfather of my brother in law Joao da
Ponte who lives in Massachusetts.  You are definitely related

Augusto da Ponte was the son of Francisco da Ponte and Maria de Jesus

On Jul 9, 7:16 am, casa28  wrote:
> Hello Herb,
>
> This is exciting.  I am a descendent of August da Ponte and Maria
> Julia from Ribeira Grande.
> They had a son Francisco Da Ponte born in 1899 (my great grandfather).
> Don't know much about him except he sent his wife to Terceira with 2
> young children, her expecting him to join her after.  But that didn't
> happen.  He sent her out on purpose so he can be with another woman,
> whom he had many children with.
>
> Don't have much info on Augusto and his wife Maria Julia.
> If you do have more info to share, please, please share.  lol.  Thank
> you, nar

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Da Ponte and China Families

[Herb]

Does anyone have any information on these families? Here is what I
have. This is my translation from the original record. The China name
is quite unusual.  I am interested in this family for a couple of
reasons especially because my "exposto"  great grandfather Silva had
the of Chino. Perhaps this was an apelido "nickname"  I don't know
very much about him except that he was a whaler and was "exposto"  He
was probably not directly related to these families but I am trying to
learn what I can about these Chino/China names.

On 2 April 1893 in this parish of Nossa Senhora Da Conceicao  da
Ribeira Grande, Sao Miguel, Diocese of Angra, the Reverend cura
Laurindo da Ponte baptized a male individual  named Manuel born in
this village at 8PM on 5 March of the same year., legitimate son of
Augusto Da Ponte, laborer, and Maria Julia, domestic of this village
and parishioners, of the Rua dos Apostolos, paternal grandson of
Francisco Da Ponte and Maria de Jesus, and maternal grandson of Jose
Ildefonso de Medeiros and Luria De Medeiros.

This Manuel Da Ponte  named above  married Maria Olinda China on Dec
12, 1914.  Maria Olinda China was born in same village and baptized on
10 Aug 1895. She was born on 8 Aug 1895 and was the daughter of Maria
do Carmo China, ( father's name not provided) maternal grandaughter of
Manuel de Amaral China  and Maria De Jesus Vidinha.

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: De Melo

[Herb]

Hello Altino

Like I said I left Fazenda do Nordeste when I was 9.  The house you
are reffering to is probbaly what we used to call the casa do trabalho
or the casa da liga. I think this is the one Cheri asked about.  It
was located as you entered Vila do Nordeste, that area as you entered
the vila was called "Erva do Mau" I believe.  My mom who is 82 and
lives in Fall River,  said that house was where the women would learn
to work on tapestry. sewing, needlework etc.  The lady who ran that
house was Dona Maria do Carmo.  Is this the house you are refering
to?  As a kid I only went to Vila do Nordeste on occasion such as a
feast or to see a doctor so my recolection is sketchy.

 All of my brothers were born at home in Fazenda, except for my sister
who was born in the hospital at Vila do Nordeste. I remember going to
the Vila for some vaccinations and also once to see a movie at the
theatre on Pele the soccer player.  My father is from Ponta Delgada
but moved to Fazenda with my mom after they married.  He played for
Micalense in Ponta Delgada and later on played for Fazenda and they
would go to Vila to play the team there.  My mom said that like so
many families there, the Melos were not always known as Melo, because
of the various "apelidos" used.

 My mom is Maria da Conceicao Arruda and my father is Nicolau Ventura
Sousa Silva.  A lot of people from that era know my father because of
his great reputation as a soccer player.  Everyody knew him and he is
still regarded by many in the Azores as one of the greatest if not the
greatest soccer player from the Azores Islands.  He played for the pro
team Belenenses in Lisbon when he was in the Portuguse Navy in the
early 1950's. My aunt is 86 and she may have some recollection of the
Melos from Vila and I will pass along any information she may have.

Herb




On Dec 30, 12:00 am, Altino DeMelo  wrote:
> Hi Herb,
>
> It's possible that you may be related in some sense to my Melo's. My
> Melo's in Nordeste came from the Melo's in Ribeira Grande and Ribeira
> das Tainhas, Ponta Garca.
>
> You may have grown up in Nordeste and your family may have known mine.
> In fact, i wouldn't be surprised at all if our relatives were in each
> others photos (matanca's, festas etc). My paternal Grandmother
> (Senhorinha Raposo de Medeiros) was invited after she married Antonio
> de Melo Correia to live in Nordeste by her parents (José Raposo de
> Medeiros and Rosa Amália de Jesus).
>
> Senhorinha's family (Grandparents, cousins etc) were from the area
> Fazenda. (right beside Nordeste). Senhorinha had numerous siblings
> (Ernesto, José, Manuel, Serafim, Jacinto and Maria da Luz [all
> Raposo]).
>
> My Grandfather's house was right across from the Casa da Trabalho. He
> had 6 children:
> José Rapose de Melo, Urbano Raposo de Melo, Maria Alda Raposo de Melo,
> Maria de Conceição de Melo, Altino Raposo de Melo and Eduardo Raposo
> de Melo.
>
> Altino
>
> On Dec 28, 10:34 am, Herb  wrote:
>
>
>
> > Iris. I have soem time on my hands as I am on Christmas break
>
> > I have been reading with great interest the posts on De Melo family
> > from Nordeste.  I was born in Nordeste in 1958 and lived there there
> > until age 9.  My teacher ( we only had one) was a Melo.  I am not sure
> > of her first name, it may be Conceicao Alexandre Melo.  She still
> > lives in Nordeste, I saw her in 1995 when I last  visited Fazenda. I
> > am a descendant of Antonio Cabral de Mello and Barbara Correia.  Their
> > grandson Jose Cabral de Melo married Dona Vitoria de Mendonca of
> > Fazenda Nordeste.  Cheri Melo and Denise D'Antona and I are cousins
> > and we have exchanged posts about this several times over the years.
> > The Melos are a well known  and prominent family in Nordeste.  The man
> > who owned the local grocery store or "loje" in the town of Fazenda was
> > named Melo. I stopped at his store with my father when we visited
> > Fazenda in 1995. He remebered me. If I am not mistaken his name is
> > Aldino or Evelino de Melo, perhaps related to Aldino de Melo of this
> > group.  It is difficult to break down the various Melos, Brandaos,
> > Arrudas and Cabrals of Nordeste.  It was not uncommon in  Sao Miguel
> > in those days to have 2nd and 3rd cousins marry each other, and on
> > occasion even 1st cousins.  In fact this practice was encouraged
> > throughout Europe as late as the late 19th century, as this was seen
> > as a way to preserve family ties and land possesions, continuation of
> > family names etc.  Approximately 40% of marriages  throughout Europe
> > in the 18th and 19th centuries were between cousins.  So you see, it
> > becomes very challenging to sort of b

[AZORES-Genealogy] De Melo

[Herb]

Iris. I have soem time on my hands as I am on Christmas break

I have been reading with great interest the posts on De Melo family
from Nordeste.  I was born in Nordeste in 1958 and lived there there
until age 9.  My teacher ( we only had one) was a Melo.  I am not sure
of her first name, it may be Conceicao Alexandre Melo.  She still
lives in Nordeste, I saw her in 1995 when I last  visited Fazenda. I
am a descendant of Antonio Cabral de Mello and Barbara Correia.  Their
grandson Jose Cabral de Melo married Dona Vitoria de Mendonca of
Fazenda Nordeste.  Cheri Melo and Denise D'Antona and I are cousins
and we have exchanged posts about this several times over the years.
The Melos are a well known  and prominent family in Nordeste.  The man
who owned the local grocery store or "loje" in the town of Fazenda was
named Melo. I stopped at his store with my father when we visited
Fazenda in 1995. He remebered me. If I am not mistaken his name is
Aldino or Evelino de Melo, perhaps related to Aldino de Melo of this
group.  It is difficult to break down the various Melos, Brandaos,
Arrudas and Cabrals of Nordeste.  It was not uncommon in  Sao Miguel
in those days to have 2nd and 3rd cousins marry each other, and on
occasion even 1st cousins.  In fact this practice was encouraged
throughout Europe as late as the late 19th century, as this was seen
as a way to preserve family ties and land possesions, continuation of
family names etc.  Approximately 40% of marriages  throughout Europe
in the 18th and 19th centuries were between cousins.  So you see, it
becomes very challenging to sort of break down and analyse these many
family ties. I will have to ask my mother what else she can  tell me
about these families.  I also have 2 cousins living in Fazenda and one
in Ribeira Grande ( she used to live in Achada) and they may have some
helpful information as well.

Herb

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: ARRUDA - NORDESTE

[Herb]

 hello Eliseu

I was born in Nordeste and I am descentant of the Nordeste Arrudas. My
Arruda line currently only goes as far as Antonio de Arruda who was
married to a Maria de Estrela.  Antonio was the son of Francisco
Cabral Arruda and Francisca Raposa.  They were married on 18 Nov
1831.  Both were both born abt.1810


Antonio's father Francisco was married on 10 June 1878 to a Maria de
Jesus.  He was in his 40's she was apparently 18 years old. I also
have many Brandao, Cabral and Raposo ancestors from Nordeste.

 I am sure there is a relationship between my Arrudas and your António
Arruda married to Teresa Rebelo



Herb




On Jun 19, 1:12 pm, "Eliseu Manuel Pacheco da Silva"
 wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Looking for direct ancestors (8th and 7th great grandparents).
>
> Any info on António Arruda married to Teresa Rebelo would be much
> appreciated. António was born in S. Pedro Nordestinho, Nordeste, S. Miguel.
>
> They had a son Manuel de Arruda born in S. Pedro Nordestinho in 2. Dec.1751.
> Manuel was married to Ana Francisca at Porto Formoso, 30.Jan.1782.  Ana
> Francisca was born in Porto Formoso, 30.Nov.1751.
>
> Thanks in advance.
>
> eliseu

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Re: Searching for Maria Dos Santos

[Herb]

Hi Linda

I looked through my PAF and I can't find any connection to your line

Herb

On Apr 25, 10:03 am, "Linda Norton"  wrote:
> Herb,
>
> I have Manuel dos Santos Faria b. 1725 m. Luzia de Medeiros in 1752. Their
> daughter Monica Jacinta de Jesus m. Joao Borges Tavares which brought down
> my Borges line. Also Joao Rodrigues b. 1715 m. Maria dos Santos their son,
> Jose Tavares Rodrigues brought that Tavares line down, but the Rodrigues and
> Tavares names were dropped. The dos Santos were the female lines coming
> down.
>
> Could your dos Santos been related on the males lines coming down even
> though mine were from Ribeira Grande?
>
> Linda Borges (Furtado) Norton
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: azores@googlegroups.com [mailto:azo...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of
>
> Herb
> Sent: Saturday, April 24, 2010 8:32 AM
> To: Azores Genealogy
> Subject: [AZORES-Genealogy] Searching for Maria Dos Santos
>
> I realize this is a long shot. I am searching for obituary, children, and
> marrige  information on Maria Dos Santos born in Agua de Pau, Sao Miguel
> March 27, 1862. I am pretty sure she was my GG Grandmother. She was the
> daughter of Ricarda do Espirito Santo, born May 16, 1820 and of Manuel dos
> Santos both of Agua de Pau
>
> Herb in Virginia
>
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> Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

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[AZORES-Genealogy] Searching for Maria Dos Santos

[Herb]

I realize this is a long shot. I am searching for obituary, children,
and marrige  information on Maria Dos Santos born in Agua de Pau, Sao
Miguel March 27, 1862. I am pretty sure she was my GG Grandmother. She
was the daughter of Ricarda do Espirito Santo, born May 16, 1820 and
of Manuel dos Santos both of Agua de Pau

Herb in Virginia

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