Re: [backstage] New BBC customisable homepage
On 19 Dec 2007, at 10:43, Brian Butterworth wrote: 6. Icons. Since Windows 3, the down triangle has been used to mean drop down menu. I know web designers HATE following UI hints that users have known for decades, but it does make it easier to use. If you could refer to: http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa511456.aspx That link says it's actually a progressive disclosure control, which is used to allow users to show or hide additional information including data, options, or commands. Seems spot on to me. Cheers Jonathan - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] New BBC customisable homepage
More feedback for you. Vista Pro, IE7, 16 million colours, second monitor (1024x768). I set the font size to -2 and this is what I get: http://bnb.bpweb.net/misc/bbc_hp.png Specific problems: 1. Customise homepage has gone onto two lines, not correctly aligned 2. All the colours have banded which looks nasty 3. Text on top line is corrupt; 4. In the Science and Nature (and News) sections, the boxes have lost alignment. 5. Loss of ClearType font rendering in places (due to effects used) 6. Icons. Since Windows 3, the down triangle has been used to mean drop down menu. I know web designers HATE following UI hints that users have known for decades, but it does make it easier to use. If you could refer to: http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa511456.aspx http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/bb328626.aspx Also, why not (for Windows+IE users) use .EOT soft fonts? They are really easy to do! http://www.microsoft.com/typography/web/embedding/weft3/default.htm And finally, one of the best things of the themes facility of iGoogle is that they change thoughout the day both the pictures and colours...
RE: [backstage] New BBC customisable homepage
Never mind EOT, just emply a tasteful dollup of SiFR - http://www.mikeindustries.com/sifr for the uninitiated. Never mind all that proprietary EOT stuff, (and whilst I don't actually loathe IE, I just think it's a waste of a feature.) Bonus: cross-browser branded headers in whatever font the BBC's using now, plus if they run a feature or something else which has its own branding, they can slot it in. Bonus two: degrades gracefully. Bonus three: understandable by screen readers. :) Also, why not (for Windows+IE users) use .EOT soft fonts? They are really easy to do! http://www.microsoft.com/typography/web/embedding/weft3/default.htm
Re: [backstage] New BBC customisable homepage
On 19/12/2007, Christopher Woods [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Never mind EOT, just emply a tasteful dollup of SiFR -
http://www.mikeindustries.com/sifr for the uninitiated. Never mind all
that proprietary EOT stuff, (and whilst I don't actually loathe IE, I just
think it's a waste of a feature.) Bonus: cross-browser branded headers in
whatever font the BBC's using now, plus if they run a feature or something
else which has its own branding, they can slot it in. Bonus two: degrades
gracefully. Bonus three: understandable by screen readers.
I have to say that Macromedia Flash is as propritary as EOT fonts!
EOT doesn't require Flash installed and works on IE6, IE7 with Windows
95/98/ME/2K/2K3/Vista (ie 90%+ of users) and uses ClearType rendering when
enabled.
It will also degrade gracefully to another font and can be read by screen
readers.
Just a line in the old CSS file to get the font in your list, viz:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] {font-family: TiresiasScreenfont;font-style: normal;
font-weight: normal;src: url(fonts/TIRESIA0.eot); }
@font-face { font-family: Neo Sans Light; font-style: normal;font-weight:
normal; src: url(fonts/NEOSANS2.eot); }*
And then just call the font by it's name...
*H1 { font-family:Neo Sans Light, Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif;}*
How easy is that?
And the .EOT file is cached by the browser!
:)
Also, why not (for Windows+IE users) use .EOT soft fonts? They are
really easy to do!
http://www.microsoft.com/typography/web/embedding/weft3/default.htm
--
Please email me back if you need any more help.
Brian Butterworth
http://www.ukfree.tv
Re: [backstage] New BBC customisable homepage
It's always the way isn't it when designing websites that want a unique
feel, extra typefaces look great but there's the tradeoff with accessibility
and compatibility.
It's good that there are options around to try to alleviate some of these
problems, but as with any deviation from the 'standard', there will always
be numerous problems, and it's a balancing act to get it right between
serving the maximum audience and providing innovative and cutting edge
design and content.
I am a definite culprit when it comes to using heavy graphics on websites I
make, not so bad in today's broadband world but would be damned a few years
ago - not to mention the accessibility issues.
The recent comments have opened my eyes to some alternatives that can be
considered while still allowing individual and creative content to shine
through.
On Dec 19, 2007 1:32 PM, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 19/12/2007, Christopher Woods [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Never mind EOT, just emply a tasteful dollup of SiFR -
http://www.mikeindustries.com/sifr for the uninitiated. Never mind all
that proprietary EOT stuff, (and whilst I don't actually loathe IE, I just
think it's a waste of a feature.) Bonus: cross-browser branded headers in
whatever font the BBC's using now, plus if they run a feature or something
else which has its own branding, they can slot it in. Bonus two: degrades
gracefully. Bonus three: understandable by screen readers.
I have to say that Macromedia Flash is as propritary as EOT fonts!
EOT doesn't require Flash installed and works on IE6, IE7 with Windows
95/98/ME/2K/2K3/Vista (ie 90%+ of users) and uses ClearType rendering when
enabled.
It will also degrade gracefully to another font and can be read by screen
readers.
Just a line in the old CSS file to get the font in your list, viz:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] {font-family: TiresiasScreenfont;font-style:
normal;font-weight: normal;src: url(fonts/TIRESIA0.eot); }
@font-face { font-family: Neo Sans Light; font-style:
normal;font-weight: normal; src: url(fonts/NEOSANS2.eot); } *
And then just call the font by it's name...
*H1 { font-family:Neo Sans Light, Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif;}*
How easy is that?
And the .EOT file is cached by the browser!
:)
Also, why not (for Windows+IE users) use .EOT soft fonts? They are
really easy to do!
http://www.microsoft.com/typography/web/embedding/weft3/default.htm
--
Please email me back if you need any more help.
Brian Butterworth
http://www.ukfree.tv
Re: [backstage] New BBC customisable homepage
On 19/12/2007, Matt Barber [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It's always the way isn't it when designing websites that want a unique
feel, extra typefaces look great but there's the tradeoff with accessibility
and compatibility.
It's good that there are options around to try to alleviate some of these
problems, but as with any deviation from the 'standard', there will always
be numerous problems, and it's a balancing act to get it right between
serving the maximum audience and providing innovative and cutting edge
design and content.
I am a definite culprit when it comes to using heavy graphics on websites
I make, not so bad in today's broadband world but would be damned a few
years ago - not to mention the accessibility issues.
You're so right. It seems unbeleievable that in 2007 there is no standard
online for outline data, be it fonts or other forms of vector graphics.
I usually end up detecting the IE+Windows and using EOT fonts for them, and
then generating a PNG via a PHP script using a TTF font file for other
browsers, going back to plain text for GoogleBot and his pals.
The recent comments have opened my eyes to some alternatives that can be
considered while still allowing individual and creative content to shine
through.
It's 100% harder than it should be!
On Dec 19, 2007 1:32 PM, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On 19/12/2007, Christopher Woods [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Never mind EOT, just emply a tasteful dollup of SiFR -
http://www.mikeindustries.com/sifr for the uninitiated. Never mind all
that proprietary EOT stuff, (and whilst I don't actually loathe IE, I just
think it's a waste of a feature.) Bonus: cross-browser branded headers in
whatever font the BBC's using now, plus if they run a feature or something
else which has its own branding, they can slot it in. Bonus two: degrades
gracefully. Bonus three: understandable by screen readers.
I have to say that Macromedia Flash is as propritary as EOT fonts!
EOT doesn't require Flash installed and works on IE6, IE7 with Windows
95/98/ME/2K/2K3/Vista (ie 90%+ of users) and uses ClearType rendering when
enabled.
It will also degrade gracefully to another font and can be read by
screen readers.
Just a line in the old CSS file to get the font in your list, viz:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] {font-family: TiresiasScreenfont;font-style:
normal;font-weight: normal;src: url(fonts/TIRESIA0.eot); }
@font-face { font-family: Neo Sans Light; font-style:
normal;font-weight: normal; src: url(fonts/NEOSANS2.eot); } *
And then just call the font by it's name...
*H1 { font-family:Neo Sans Light, Tahoma, Arial, Helvetica,
sans-serif;}*
How easy is that?
And the .EOT file is cached by the browser!
:)
Also, why not (for Windows+IE users) use .EOT soft fonts? They are
really easy to do!
http://www.microsoft.com/typography/web/embedding/weft3/default.htm
--
Please email me back if you need any more help.
Brian Butterworth
http://www.ukfree.tv
--
Please email me back if you need any more help.
Brian Butterworth
http://www.ukfree.tv
Re: [backstage] New BBC customisable homepage
I also like the initial effect, however... why is 50% of the space uneditable? seems contrary to sense, can't find any excuse for the obligatory large picture with 4 choices, please remove, optionally of course ~: the directory could also be editable, with a minimise and reset if desirable. why is radio not editable? the minimised buttons could be links, no... keyboard navigation isn't exactly intuitive, but does it work at all? the link order is weird in any case... with each area minimised, I tabbed to 'open' sport, hit enter, it opens, which is excellent, but then how can I tab through the links displayed? a huge congratulations on a significant benchmark. kind regards Jonathan Chetwynd Accessibility Consultant on Media Literacy and the Internet On 17 Dec 2007, at 17:37, Christopher Woods wrote: Wow, what a great job! First impressions are fantastic - clean, easy on the eye, very nice purple colour scheme and I very much like the rollover effects (the customisation aspect is nice, too). I'm glad to see that the clock has finally made a comeback - I remember a discussion about that a while ago (I think it was on here, wasn't it?) when the Flash-based BBC clocks were discussed, and someone at the beeb asked if they could use them for a forthcoming BBC project or something like that? I can't be bothered to go looking through my archives now to verify my poor memory, but nevertheless good job to all involved! The only things that need sorting are the slightly chubby 'headers' for the hideable sections, make them a little less tall, 10-15px less would do it I think. Also, no mouseover effects for the four showcase buttons underneath the main image? Ooo, love the effects when you customise stuff... All the swishing and swooping and modal dialogs when you set your location and BBC News version - I'm such a mug for a bit of web 2 goodness sometimes! I'm wondering how it degrades in older browsers though... Trying it on my WinMo 5 phone, at least it renders as a full single column by default in Pocket IE - LOADs of scrolling through images and layout stuff, but at least all the content is easily readable. None of the edit links work for customising the widgets, I'm guessing (hoping) a mobile-friendly version of the BBC homepage is coming soon - I'd be sorely tempted to change my homepage to the BBC frontpage for my phone if a 3G-, QVGA-friendly version was designed. Looking good for starters though! I don't know if there's anyone at the Beeb who is involved (or knows someone who's involved) in the frontpage redesign, but it's looking very promising and I'm quite pleased. I love the return of the clock, promise me that'll never go! :D - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] New BBC customisable homepage
I second the clock, looks great. Nice redesign for a new era of the web. Great the way that video and rich media has presecence now as it will be used more and more in coming months I should think. Few tweaks here and there, as mentioned the accessibility issues with tabbing through content, and it should be great. ./Matt On Dec 18, 2007 11:14 AM, ~:'' ありがとうございました。 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I also like the initial effect, however... why is 50% of the space uneditable? seems contrary to sense, can't find any excuse for the obligatory large picture with 4 choices, please remove, optionally of course ~: the directory could also be editable, with a minimise and reset if desirable. why is radio not editable? the minimised buttons could be links, no... keyboard navigation isn't exactly intuitive, but does it work at all? the link order is weird in any case... with each area minimised, I tabbed to 'open' sport, hit enter, it opens, which is excellent, but then how can I tab through the links displayed? a huge congratulations on a significant benchmark. kind regards Jonathan Chetwynd Accessibility Consultant on Media Literacy and the Internet On 17 Dec 2007, at 17:37, Christopher Woods wrote: Wow, what a great job! First impressions are fantastic - clean, easy on the eye, very nice purple colour scheme and I very much like the rollover effects (the customisation aspect is nice, too). I'm glad to see that the clock has finally made a comeback - I remember a discussion about that a while ago (I think it was on here, wasn't it?) when the Flash-based BBC clocks were discussed, and someone at the beeb asked if they could use them for a forthcoming BBC project or something like that? I can't be bothered to go looking through my archives now to verify my poor memory, but nevertheless good job to all involved! The only things that need sorting are the slightly chubby 'headers' for the hideable sections, make them a little less tall, 10-15px less would do it I think. Also, no mouseover effects for the four showcase buttons underneath the main image? Ooo, love the effects when you customise stuff... All the swishing and swooping and modal dialogs when you set your location and BBC News version - I'm such a mug for a bit of web 2 goodness sometimes! I'm wondering how it degrades in older browsers though... Trying it on my WinMo 5 phone, at least it renders as a full single column by default in Pocket IE - LOADs of scrolling through images and layout stuff, but at least all the content is easily readable. None of the edit links work for customising the widgets, I'm guessing (hoping) a mobile-friendly version of the BBC homepage is coming soon - I'd be sorely tempted to change my homepage to the BBC frontpage for my phone if a 3G-, QVGA-friendly version was designed. Looking good for starters though! I don't know if there's anyone at the Beeb who is involved (or knows someone who's involved) in the frontpage redesign, but it's looking very promising and I'm quite pleased. I love the return of the clock, promise me that'll never go! :D - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] New BBC customisable homepage
First impressions: Generally not bad, though I think the masthead takes up slightly too much screen real estate (and I'm viewing at 1280x1024). Also , I find the colour change on the interface when clicking the options under the lead picture incredibly jarring and I'm not sure what purpose the change is really supposed to serve. I think I know why it's supposed to be there but on the whole I find it rather distracting and unnecessary. The borders around content boxes are quite thick, so it gives the interface a slightly chunkier look than I, personally, prefer, but that's just a matter of personal preference. The effect is quite nice though. I'm not so sure about the Vista-ish modal dialog boxes though. Though they look pretty they have the potential of becoming incredibly annoying if they crop up too often. Basic degradation is pretty decent actually, after giving it a quick go in FF 3 beta 1 with everything (e.g. Java, js) switched off and I like the fact that content panes can be windowshaded and the settings remembered between visits. In response to others yes, the optionality is fairly limited but I think too much would make the interface too unwieldy and break what is currently fairly simple and clean. Better yet the first non-tech people I showed it too were taken with the look; they liked it. Overall, I'm impressed -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 11:15 AM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] New BBC customisable homepage I also like the initial effect, however... why is 50% of the space uneditable? seems contrary to sense, can't find any excuse for the obligatory large picture with 4 choices, please remove, optionally of course ~: the directory could also be editable, with a minimise and reset if desirable. why is radio not editable? the minimised buttons could be links, no... keyboard navigation isn't exactly intuitive, but does it work at all? the link order is weird in any case... with each area minimised, I tabbed to 'open' sport, hit enter, it opens, which is excellent, but then how can I tab through the links displayed? a huge congratulations on a significant benchmark. kind regards Jonathan Chetwynd Accessibility Consultant on Media Literacy and the Internet On 17 Dec 2007, at 17:37, Christopher Woods wrote: Wow, what a great job! First impressions are fantastic - clean, easy on the eye, very nice purple colour scheme and I very much like the rollover effects (the customisation aspect is nice, too). I'm glad to see that the clock has finally made a comeback - I remember a discussion about that a while ago (I think it was on here, wasn't it?) when the Flash-based BBC clocks were discussed, and someone at the beeb asked if they could use them for a forthcoming BBC project or something like that? I can't be bothered to go looking through my archives now to verify my poor memory, but nevertheless good job to all involved! The only things that need sorting are the slightly chubby 'headers' for the hideable sections, make them a little less tall, 10-15px less would do it I think. Also, no mouseover effects for the four showcase buttons underneath the main image? Ooo, love the effects when you customise stuff... All the swishing and swooping and modal dialogs when you set your location and BBC News version - I'm such a mug for a bit of web 2 goodness sometimes! I'm wondering how it degrades in older browsers though... Trying it on my WinMo 5 phone, at least it renders as a full single column by default in Pocket IE - LOADs of scrolling through images and layout stuff, but at least all the content is easily readable. None of the edit links work for customising the widgets, I'm guessing (hoping) a mobile-friendly version of the BBC homepage is coming soon - I'd be sorely tempted to change my homepage to the BBC frontpage for my phone if a 3G-, QVGA-friendly version was designed. Looking good for starters though! I don't know if there's anyone at the Beeb who is involved (or knows someone who's involved) in the frontpage redesign, but it's looking very promising and I'm quite pleased. I love the return of the clock, promise me that'll never go! :D - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ * To view the terms under which this email is distributed, please go to http://www.hull.ac.uk/legal/email_disclaimer.html *
RE: [backstage] New BBC customisable homepage
Yeah, I forgot the clock. Nice little retro touch that brought back some childhood memories of waiting for Dr Who on a Saturday night (and schools programmes!) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Barber Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 11:27 AM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] New BBC customisable homepage I second the clock, looks great. Nice redesign for a new era of the web. Great the way that video and rich media has presecence now as it will be used more and more in coming months I should think. Few tweaks here and there, as mentioned the accessibility issues with tabbing through content, and it should be great. ./Matt On Dec 18, 2007 11:14 AM, ~:'' ありがとうございました。 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I also like the initial effect, however... why is 50% of the space uneditable? seems contrary to sense, can't find any excuse for the obligatory large picture with 4 choices, please remove, optionally of course ~: the directory could also be editable, with a minimise and reset if desirable. why is radio not editable? the minimised buttons could be links, no... keyboard navigation isn't exactly intuitive, but does it work at all? the link order is weird in any case... with each area minimised, I tabbed to 'open' sport, hit enter, it opens, which is excellent, but then how can I tab through the links displayed? a huge congratulations on a significant benchmark. kind regards Jonathan Chetwynd Accessibility Consultant on Media Literacy and the Internet On 17 Dec 2007, at 17:37, Christopher Woods wrote: Wow, what a great job! First impressions are fantastic - clean, easy on the eye, very nice purple colour scheme and I very much like the rollover effects (the customisation aspect is nice, too). I'm glad to see that the clock has finally made a comeback - I remember a discussion about that a while ago (I think it was on here, wasn't it?) when the Flash-based BBC clocks were discussed, and someone at the beeb asked if they could use them for a forthcoming BBC project or something like that? I can't be bothered to go looking through my archives now to verify my poor memory, but nevertheless good job to all involved! The only things that need sorting are the slightly chubby 'headers' for the hideable sections, make them a little less tall, 10-15px less would do it I think. Also, no mouseover effects for the four showcase buttons underneath the main image? Ooo, love the effects when you customise stuff... All the swishing and swooping and modal dialogs when you set your location and BBC News version - I'm such a mug for a bit of web 2 goodness sometimes! I'm wondering how it degrades in older browsers though... Trying it on my WinMo 5 phone, at least it renders as a full single column by default in Pocket IE - LOADs of scrolling through images and layout stuff, but at least all the content is easily readable. None of the edit links work for customising the widgets, I'm guessing (hoping) a mobile-friendly version of the BBC homepage is coming soon - I'd be sorely tempted to change my homepage to the BBC frontpage for my phone if a 3G-, QVGA-friendly version was designed. Looking good for starters though! I don't know if there's anyone at the Beeb who is involved (or knows someone who's involved) in the frontpage redesign, but it's looking very promising and I'm quite pleased. I love the return of the clock, promise me that'll never go! :D - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ * To view the terms under which this email is distributed, please go to http://www.hull.ac.uk/legal/email_disclaimer.html *
Re: [backstage] New BBC customisable homepage
I agree. Is the less than 60 click second hand part of the new era it introduces? I know that life in London is fast paced, but ... *smile* RichE On 18 Dec 2007, at 11:44, Darren Stephens wrote: Yeah, I forgot the clock. Nice little retro touch that brought back some childhood memories of waiting for Dr Who on a Saturday night (and schools programmes!) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matt Barber Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 11:27 AM To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] New BBC customisable homepage I second the clock, looks great. Nice redesign for a new era of the web. Great the way that video and rich media has presecence now as it will be used more and more in coming months I should think. Few tweaks here and there, as mentioned the accessibility issues with tabbing through content, and it should be great. ./Matt On Dec 18, 2007 11:14 AM, ~:'' ありがとうございまし た。 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I also like the initial effect, however... why is 50% of the space uneditable? seems contrary to sense, can't find any excuse for the obligatory large picture with 4 choices, please remove, optionally of course ~: the directory could also be editable, with a minimise and reset if desirable. why is radio not editable? the minimised buttons could be links, no... keyboard navigation isn't exactly intuitive, but does it work at all? the link order is weird in any case... with each area minimised, I tabbed to 'open' sport, hit enter, it opens, which is excellent, but then how can I tab through the links displayed? a huge congratulations on a significant benchmark. kind regards Jonathan Chetwynd Accessibility Consultant on Media Literacy and the Internet On 17 Dec 2007, at 17:37, Christopher Woods wrote: Wow, what a great job! First impressions are fantastic - clean, easy on the eye, very nice purple colour scheme and I very much like the rollover effects (the customisation aspect is nice, too). I'm glad to see that the clock has finally made a comeback - I remember a discussion about that a while ago (I think it was on here, wasn't it?) when the Flash-based BBC clocks were discussed, and someone at the beeb asked if they could use them for a forthcoming BBC project or something like that? I can't be bothered to go looking through my archives now to verify my poor memory, but nevertheless good job to all involved! The only things that need sorting are the slightly chubby 'headers' for the hideable sections, make them a little less tall, 10-15px less would do it I think. Also, no mouseover effects for the four showcase buttons underneath the main image? Ooo, love the effects when you customise stuff... All the swishing and swooping and modal dialogs when you set your location and BBC News version - I'm such a mug for a bit of web 2 goodness sometimes! I'm wondering how it degrades in older browsers though... Trying it on my WinMo 5 phone, at least it renders as a full single column by default in Pocket IE - LOADs of scrolling through images and layout stuff, but at least all the content is easily readable. None of the edit links work for customising the widgets, I'm guessing (hoping) a mobile-friendly version of the BBC homepage is coming soon - I'd be sorely tempted to change my homepage to the BBC frontpage for my phone if a 3G-, QVGA-friendly version was designed. Looking good for starters though! I don't know if there's anyone at the Beeb who is involved (or knows someone who's involved) in the frontpage redesign, but it's looking very promising and I'm quite pleased. I love the return of the clock, promise me that'll never go! :D - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/ mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail- archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ ** *** To view the terms under which this email is distributed, please go to http://www.hull.ac.uk/legal/email_disclaimer.html ** ***
Re: [backstage] New BBC customisable homepage
To show my gratitude for this new beta page, I found some bugs: In my rush to lose 'Sport' from the page, I clicked on the triangle expose button at the left of the title bar, but found that it left the heading there (don't know why I thought it would eliminate it, must be my lack of experience at using these computer things). So then I clicked on 'Edit' -- nothing changed. Oo-er. 'Edit'. Nothing. 'Edit'. Nothing. 'Edit edit edit' Nothing nothing nothing. 'Triangle'. Sport window reopens, but now has a bunch of checkboxes at the top. A-ha! So the bug is that 'Edit' should not do nothing at all when the content of the panel is hidden, it should re-open the panel so that the requested edit process can begin. Alternatively, when the panel body is hidden, it should hide or grey-out the 'Edit' button so it doesn't offer the chance to be an apparently non-functional control. (Also, you could save some real estate by switching 'Edit' to 'Cancel' 'Save' in place when edit mode is active, perhaps.) %% Clicking 'Set your location' exposes a form that is partially obscured by the big Sleigh/Twist/Garden/Tardis panel, so that the action buttons cannot be read, and the typed input cannot be seen. (Firefox 2.0.0.11 on Linux -- I can send screenshots if required.) %% The text in the 'Directory' at the bottom of the page spills over the bottom of the obligatory round-cornered box onto the grey area below, making the bottom rows of text pretty illegible. %% When clicking on the '?' by 'Blogs' when the Blogs heading is close to the bottom edge of the screen, the pop-up box ought to appear above the '?', so that its contents are actually visible. ## Meanwhile, since you asked, here are some requests for features: I'd like to be able to reorder sub-headings (such as news categories). I'd like to be able to exclude certain radio stations, and I'd like to have more than one available local station, and I'd like to have a list of locations that I can switch between for the whole page. Oh, and I'd like a pony (preferably one I didn't have to feed). Feed! An RSS feed of fixes and updates to the new page, too, I'd like, please, thank you very much. -- Frank Wales [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
RE: [backstage] New BBC customisable homepage
Thanks guys for the feedback, the homepage beta team are watching the thread. btw did see the new world service home page - http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/. Maybe not as clever but very beautiful. Cheers, Ian Forrester This e-mail is: [ ] private; [ ] ask first; [ x ] bloggable Senior Producer, BBC Backstage BC5 C3, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7TP e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] p: +44 (0)2080083965 m: +44 (0)7711913293 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frank Wales Sent: 18 December 2007 14:07 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] New BBC customisable homepage To show my gratitude for this new beta page, I found some bugs: In my rush to lose 'Sport' from the page, I clicked on the triangle expose button at the left of the title bar, but found that it left the heading there (don't know why I thought it would eliminate it, must be my lack of experience at using these computer things). So then I clicked on 'Edit' -- nothing changed. Oo-er. 'Edit'. Nothing. 'Edit'. Nothing. 'Edit edit edit' Nothing nothing nothing. 'Triangle'. Sport window reopens, but now has a bunch of checkboxes at the top. A-ha! So the bug is that 'Edit' should not do nothing at all when the content of the panel is hidden, it should re-open the panel so that the requested edit process can begin. Alternatively, when the panel body is hidden, it should hide or grey-out the 'Edit' button so it doesn't offer the chance to be an apparently non-functional control. (Also, you could save some real estate by switching 'Edit' to 'Cancel' 'Save' in place when edit mode is active, perhaps.) %% Clicking 'Set your location' exposes a form that is partially obscured by the big Sleigh/Twist/Garden/Tardis panel, so that the action buttons cannot be read, and the typed input cannot be seen. (Firefox 2.0.0.11 on Linux -- I can send screenshots if required.) %% The text in the 'Directory' at the bottom of the page spills over the bottom of the obligatory round-cornered box onto the grey area below, making the bottom rows of text pretty illegible. %% When clicking on the '?' by 'Blogs' when the Blogs heading is close to the bottom edge of the screen, the pop-up box ought to appear above the '?', so that its contents are actually visible. ## Meanwhile, since you asked, here are some requests for features: I'd like to be able to reorder sub-headings (such as news categories). I'd like to be able to exclude certain radio stations, and I'd like to have more than one available local station, and I'd like to have a list of locations that I can switch between for the whole page. Oh, and I'd like a pony (preferably one I didn't have to feed). Feed! An RSS feed of fixes and updates to the new page, too, I'd like, please, thank you very much. -- Frank Wales [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] New BBC customisable homepage
Right... it's quite an improvement on what we had before. I love the clock, but it's very very retro. Would be nice if you could choose from the huge range of flash clocks. http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/classic/testcards/ Using the page on this 1024x768 monitor.. it's a bit big and shouty IMHO. I'm all up for the text being large for users that need it, but it's comes over all massive (that's massive meaning bad, not massive meaning good). There's some things that are a bit weird. The Radio section has now and next, but the TV one is for on tonight. Not very consistent. Using IE7, when I click the triangle on the TV section, there is a white word More that scrolls across the weather box above each time. The History doesn't link the the BBC's history content, unlike Science which does. Not very consistent again. One more thing... do my settings follow me from machine to machine, as with iGoogle? And ... please... this is a bug report.. not critisism of the concept. On 18/12/2007, Ian Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks guys for the feedback, the homepage beta team are watching the thread. btw did see the new world service home page - http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/. Maybe not as clever but very beautiful. Cheers, Ian Forrester This e-mail is: [ ] private; [ ] ask first; [ x ] bloggable Senior Producer, BBC Backstage BC5 C3, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7TP e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] p: +44 (0)2080083965 m: +44 (0)7711913293 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frank Wales Sent: 18 December 2007 14:07 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] New BBC customisable homepage To show my gratitude for this new beta page, I found some bugs: In my rush to lose 'Sport' from the page, I clicked on the triangle expose button at the left of the title bar, but found that it left the heading there (don't know why I thought it would eliminate it, must be my lack of experience at using these computer things). So then I clicked on 'Edit' -- nothing changed. Oo-er. 'Edit'. Nothing. 'Edit'. Nothing. 'Edit edit edit' Nothing nothing nothing. 'Triangle'. Sport window reopens, but now has a bunch of checkboxes at the top. A-ha! So the bug is that 'Edit' should not do nothing at all when the content of the panel is hidden, it should re-open the panel so that the requested edit process can begin. Alternatively, when the panel body is hidden, it should hide or grey-out the 'Edit' button so it doesn't offer the chance to be an apparently non-functional control. (Also, you could save some real estate by switching 'Edit' to 'Cancel' 'Save' in place when edit mode is active, perhaps.) %% Clicking 'Set your location' exposes a form that is partially obscured by the big Sleigh/Twist/Garden/Tardis panel, so that the action buttons cannot be read, and the typed input cannot be seen. (Firefox 2.0.0.11 on Linux -- I can send screenshots if required.) %% The text in the 'Directory' at the bottom of the page spills over the bottom of the obligatory round-cornered box onto the grey area below, making the bottom rows of text pretty illegible. %% When clicking on the '?' by 'Blogs' when the Blogs heading is close to the bottom edge of the screen, the pop-up box ought to appear above the '?', so that its contents are actually visible. ## Meanwhile, since you asked, here are some requests for features: I'd like to be able to reorder sub-headings (such as news categories). I'd like to be able to exclude certain radio stations, and I'd like to have more than one available local station, and I'd like to have a list of locations that I can switch between for the whole page. Oh, and I'd like a pony (preferably one I didn't have to feed). Feed! An RSS feed of fixes and updates to the new page, too, I'd like, please, thank you very much. -- Frank Wales [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ -- Please email me back if you need any more help. Brian Butterworth http://www.ukfree.tv
Re: [backstage] New BBC customisable homepage
two more thoughts. 1) I need to be able to hide radio stations I don't listen to. I only ever listen to 1Xtra, R4, 5L and BBC7. I don't need to be able to see them all, as a personalising user. 2) There needs to be a massive *G*U*E*S*TM*O*D*E button at the top of the page that restore everything to defaults, without erasing the settings. This is vital, as a personalized page is no help to anyone else you might share the computer with. 3) Would be great to have a podcasts box. On 18/12/2007, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Right... it's quite an improvement on what we had before. I love the clock, but it's very very retro. Would be nice if you could choose from the huge range of flash clocks. http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/classic/testcards/ Using the page on this 1024x768 monitor.. it's a bit big and shouty IMHO. I'm all up for the text being large for users that need it, but it's comes over all massive (that's massive meaning bad, not massive meaning good). There's some things that are a bit weird. The Radio section has now and next, but the TV one is for on tonight. Not very consistent. Using IE7, when I click the triangle on the TV section, there is a white word More that scrolls across the weather box above each time. The History doesn't link the the BBC's history content, unlike Science which does. Not very consistent again. One more thing... do my settings follow me from machine to machine, as with iGoogle? And ... please... this is a bug report.. not critisism of the concept. On 18/12/2007, Ian Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks guys for the feedback, the homepage beta team are watching the thread. btw did see the new world service home page - http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/. Maybe not as clever but very beautiful. Cheers, Ian Forrester This e-mail is: [ ] private; [ ] ask first; [ x ] bloggable Senior Producer, BBC Backstage BC5 C3, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7TP e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] p: +44 (0)2080083965 m: +44 (0)7711913293 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frank Wales Sent: 18 December 2007 14:07 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] New BBC customisable homepage To show my gratitude for this new beta page, I found some bugs: In my rush to lose 'Sport' from the page, I clicked on the triangle expose button at the left of the title bar, but found that it left the heading there (don't know why I thought it would eliminate it, must be my lack of experience at using these computer things). So then I clicked on 'Edit' -- nothing changed. Oo-er. 'Edit'. Nothing. 'Edit'. Nothing. 'Edit edit edit' Nothing nothing nothing. 'Triangle'. Sport window reopens, but now has a bunch of checkboxes at the top. A-ha! So the bug is that 'Edit' should not do nothing at all when the content of the panel is hidden, it should re-open the panel so that the requested edit process can begin. Alternatively, when the panel body is hidden, it should hide or grey-out the 'Edit' button so it doesn't offer the chance to be an apparently non-functional control. (Also, you could save some real estate by switching 'Edit' to 'Cancel' 'Save' in place when edit mode is active, perhaps.) %% Clicking 'Set your location' exposes a form that is partially obscured by the big Sleigh/Twist/Garden/Tardis panel, so that the action buttons cannot be read, and the typed input cannot be seen. (Firefox 2.0.0.11 on Linux -- I can send screenshots if required.) %% The text in the 'Directory' at the bottom of the page spills over the bottom of the obligatory round-cornered box onto the grey area below, making the bottom rows of text pretty illegible. %% When clicking on the '?' by 'Blogs' when the Blogs heading is close to the bottom edge of the screen, the pop-up box ought to appear above the '?', so that its contents are actually visible. ## Meanwhile, since you asked, here are some requests for features: I'd like to be able to reorder sub-headings (such as news categories). I'd like to be able to exclude certain radio stations, and I'd like to have more than one available local station, and I'd like to have a list of locations that I can switch between for the whole page. Oh, and I'd like a pony (preferably one I didn't have to feed). Feed! An RSS feed of fixes and updates to the new page, too, I'd like, please, thank you very much. -- Frank Wales [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/ - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http
Re: [backstage] New BBC customisable homepage
Also, if you are going to have a clock, how about being able to click on the TV and radio programmes to set a reminder and then having an alarm that says Eastenders has just started on BBC One.. etc Also, where's the iPlayer? On 18/12/2007, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: two more thoughts. 1) I need to be able to hide radio stations I don't listen to. I only ever listen to 1Xtra, R4, 5L and BBC7. I don't need to be able to see them all, as a personalising user. 2) There needs to be a massive *G*U*E*S*TM*O*D*E button at the top of the page that restore everything to defaults, without erasing the settings. This is vital, as a personalized page is no help to anyone else you might share the computer with. 3) Would be great to have a podcasts box. On 18/12/2007, Brian Butterworth [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Right... it's quite an improvement on what we had before. I love the clock, but it's very very retro. Would be nice if you could choose from the huge range of flash clocks. http://www.bbc.co.uk/cult/classic/testcards/ Using the page on this 1024x768 monitor.. it's a bit big and shouty IMHO. I'm all up for the text being large for users that need it, but it's comes over all massive (that's massive meaning bad, not massive meaning good). There's some things that are a bit weird. The Radio section has now and next, but the TV one is for on tonight. Not very consistent. Using IE7, when I click the triangle on the TV section, there is a white word More that scrolls across the weather box above each time. The History doesn't link the the BBC's history content, unlike Science which does. Not very consistent again. One more thing... do my settings follow me from machine to machine, as with iGoogle? And ... please... this is a bug report.. not critisism of the concept. On 18/12/2007, Ian Forrester [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks guys for the feedback, the homepage beta team are watching the thread. btw did see the new world service home page - http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/. Maybe not as clever but very beautiful. Cheers, Ian Forrester This e-mail is: [ ] private; [ ] ask first; [ x ] bloggable Senior Producer, BBC Backstage BC5 C3, Media Village, 201 Wood Lane, London W12 7TP e: [EMAIL PROTECTED] p: +44 (0)2080083965 m: +44 (0)7711913293 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Frank Wales Sent: 18 December 2007 14:07 To: backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk Subject: Re: [backstage] New BBC customisable homepage To show my gratitude for this new beta page, I found some bugs: In my rush to lose 'Sport' from the page, I clicked on the triangle expose button at the left of the title bar, but found that it left the heading there (don't know why I thought it would eliminate it, must be my lack of experience at using these computer things). So then I clicked on 'Edit' -- nothing changed. Oo-er. 'Edit'. Nothing. 'Edit'. Nothing. 'Edit edit edit' Nothing nothing nothing. 'Triangle'. Sport window reopens, but now has a bunch of checkboxes at the top. A-ha! So the bug is that 'Edit' should not do nothing at all when the content of the panel is hidden, it should re-open the panel so that the requested edit process can begin. Alternatively, when the panel body is hidden, it should hide or grey-out the 'Edit' button so it doesn't offer the chance to be an apparently non-functional control. (Also, you could save some real estate by switching 'Edit' to 'Cancel' 'Save' in place when edit mode is active, perhaps.) %% Clicking 'Set your location' exposes a form that is partially obscured by the big Sleigh/Twist/Garden/Tardis panel, so that the action buttons cannot be read, and the typed input cannot be seen. (Firefox 2.0.0.11 on Linux -- I can send screenshots if required.) %% The text in the 'Directory' at the bottom of the page spills over the bottom of the obligatory round-cornered box onto the grey area below, making the bottom rows of text pretty illegible. %% When clicking on the '?' by 'Blogs' when the Blogs heading is close to the bottom edge of the screen, the pop-up box ought to appear above the '?', so that its contents are actually visible. ## Meanwhile, since you asked, here are some requests for features: I'd like to be able to reorder sub-headings (such as news categories). I'd like to be able to exclude certain radio stations, and I'd like to have more than one available local station, and I'd like to have a list of locations that I can switch between for the whole page. Oh, and I'd like a pony (preferably one I didn't have to feed). Feed! An RSS feed of fixes
Re: [backstage] New BBC customisable homepage
Christopher Woods wrote: I'm glad to see that the clock has finally made a comeback (...) I'm a bit disappointed by the clock - or more generally, any web clock that simply uses the local clock time when it should really be getting a sync from the server (at the best it duplicates information that is likely to already be on the screen, at the worst it is misleading for users trying to check what programmes are currently on, if their clock is misset). The date being returned (to the nearest second) by the web server looks synced, so the flash could do a dummy GET or HEAD without needing any additional server-side support, then continue with a delta from the current time. Is it open source? :) Other clock points: * As a technical person, I preferred the smooth version second hand. :) * The rendering of the hour markers looks a little grizzly/inconsistent - see http://jeremy.publication.org.uk/bbcbeta_clock.png - is it not worth rendering if it always going to be shown at 65x65? Amusingly, just looking at the news headlines now I managed to get a slight Private Eye moment - showing the wrong picture for a mouseover the particular story headline, as per http://jeremy.publication.org.uk/bbcbeta_missingpicture.png - I'm assuming the alt text is appearing since the intended image failed to load. Browser is Firefox 2.0 running on Linux. There are some other slight rendering issues on this browser, but this may be due to other factors such as setting a minimum font size. -jeremy - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] New BBC customisable homepage
On Tue, Dec 18, 2007 at 08:40:18PM +, Jeremy James wrote: I'm a bit disappointed by the clock I'm sorry if I missed the answer to the following question previously in the thread, but what is the justification for the clock? It could hardly be argued for utility purpose as most people, I assume, already have plenty of time-pieces available. -- Noah Slater http://bytesexual.org/ Creativity can be a social contribution, but only in so far as society is free to use the results. - R. Stallman - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] New BBC customisable homepage
Another quick bug report. The character set on the page appears not to support £ signs, this story http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/7149616.stm appears with the ? black diamond replacement character in firefox. - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] New BBC customisable homepage
On Tue, Dec 18, 2007 at 09:16:30PM +, Stephen Miller wrote: The character set on the page appears not to support £ signs, this story http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/7149616.stm appears with the ? black diamond replacement character in firefox. It works for me, though your email doesn't. From Firefox, View, Character Encoding, what does it say? Latin-1 here... -- Noah Slater http://bytesexual.org/ Creativity can be a social contribution, but only in so far as society is free to use the results. - R. Stallman - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
Re: [backstage] New BBC customisable homepage
On 12/19/2007 12:50 AM, Noah Slater wrote: On Tue, Dec 18, 2007 at 09:16:30PM +, Stephen Miller wrote: The character set on the page appears not to support £ signs, this story http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/7149616.stm appears with the ? black diamond replacement character in firefox. It works for me, though your email doesn't. From Firefox, View, Character Encoding, what does it say? Latin-1 here... I can see the pound sign in both Stephen's e-mail (Thunderbird) and the web page (Firefox); for both, the character encoding selected is ISO-8859-1, which is also the charset specified in the respective Content-Type headers. -- Frank Wales [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Sent via the backstage.bbc.co.uk discussion group. To unsubscribe, please visit http://backstage.bbc.co.uk/archives/2005/01/mailing_list.html. Unofficial list archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/backstage@lists.bbc.co.uk/
