Re: BBDB beginners guide?
Brett Presnell writes: > Leo writes: > >> On 2011-04-06 15:22 +0800, Didier Verna wrote: >>> Not everybody agrees with this necessarily. I'm using BBDB much more >>> often on my computers than anywhere else and I'm happy to update them >>> manually from time to time on other devices. >> >> Sure. But these users can still use BBDB the way they intend to. Support >> for an external format doesn't force them to use it. > > Have to agree with this. I'm a long-time user of BBDB, but it has > always been frustrating (and basically impossible) to try to sync > information between BBDB and other contact database (essentially only > BBDB to "other" is practical; true syncing just doesn't work). I recently picked up the ancient bbdb-syncml[1] to see if it can be fixed to work reliably. I adjusted it to use bbdb-vcard[2], and fixed some minor issues. Currently a slow sync into an empty syncevolution is working, sync with changes in syncevolution fails because bbdb-vcard currently does not provide a way to to insert records the way I need it -- getting this working shouldn't be a big change, though. In case anybody wants to take a look, it's hosted at gitorious: https://gitorious.org/bbdb-syncml/bbdb-syncml Bernd Footnotes: [1] http://savannah.nongnu.org/projects/bbdb-syncml [2] https://github.com/trebb/bbdb-vcard pgpGycS2nmX3N.pgp Description: PGP signature -- Fulfilling the Lean Software Promise Lean software platforms are now widely adopted and the benefits have been demonstrated beyond question. Learn why your peers are replacing JEE containers with lightweight application servers - and what you can gain from the move. http://p.sf.net/sfu/vmware-sfemails___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: BBDB beginners guide?
Leo writes: Nowadays keeping contacts in Emacs is secondary to keeping it in one's mobile phone. I disagree. -- Xperia(TM) PLAY It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming smartphone on the nation's most reliable network. And it wants your games. http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: BBDB beginners guide?
On Wed, 06 Apr 2011 09:22:49 +0200 Reiner Steib wrote: RS> On Mon, Apr 04 2011, Ted Zlatanov wrote: >> (unless (featurep 'bbdb3) ; or whatever >> (defalias 'bbdb-search-organization 'bbdb-company) >> (defalias 'bbdb-search-name 'bbdb-name)) RS> Please don't do it this way! Gnus users have been bitten by bugs RS> caused by such aliasing (of `replace-regexp-in-string' in RS> color-theme). The recommended way is like this: RS> ,[ (info "(elisp)Coding Conventions") ] RS> |* If a package needs to define an alias or a new function for RS> | compatibility with some other version of Emacs, name it with the RS> | package prefix, not with the raw name with which it occurs in the RS> | other version. Here is an example from Gnus, which provides many RS> | examples of such compatibility issues. RS> | RS> | (defalias 'gnus-point-at-bol RS> | (if (fboundp 'point-at-bol) RS> | 'point-at-bol RS> | 'line-beginning-position)) RS> ` Sorry, I was doing a drive-by coding :) You're right, the recommended approach is much better. Ted -- Xperia(TM) PLAY It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming smartphone on the nation's most reliable network. And it wants your games. http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: BBDB beginners guide?
Leo writes: > On 2011-04-06 15:22 +0800, Didier Verna wrote: >> Not everybody agrees with this necessarily. I'm using BBDB much more >> often on my computers than anywhere else and I'm happy to update them >> manually from time to time on other devices. > > Sure. But these users can still use BBDB the way they intend to. Support > for an external format doesn't force them to use it. Have to agree with this. I'm a long-time user of BBDB, but it has always been frustrating (and basically impossible) to try to sync information between BBDB and other contact database (essentially only BBDB to "other" is practical; true syncing just doesn't work). I think that the argument in the past against changing BBDB's "database" format, has always been that emacs parsing of a more generic vcard/cvs/XML format would be too slow. I should also admit that from my playing around with various phones, email clients, gmail, etc, it appears that it is not always straightforward to transfer contact information back and for between clients that ARE supposed to support, e.g., vcard. My recollection is that things as trivial as whether or not a field name is upper or lower case can cause problems for some clients. But the fact that some other clients may be broken shouldn't in itself be taken as a reason for BBDB not to support data exchange in some standard format. -- Xperia(TM) PLAY It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming smartphone on the nation's most reliable network. And it wants your games. http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: BBDB beginners guide?
On 2011-04-06 15:22 +0800, Didier Verna wrote: > Not everybody agrees with this necessarily. I'm using BBDB much more > often on my computers than anywhere else and I'm happy to update them > manually from time to time on other devices. Sure. But these users can still use BBDB the way they intend to. Support for an external format doesn't force them to use it. Leo -- Xperia(TM) PLAY It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming smartphone on the nation's most reliable network. And it wants your games. http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: BBDB beginners guide?
On Mon, Apr 04 2011, Ted Zlatanov wrote: > (unless (featurep 'bbdb3) ; or whatever > (defalias 'bbdb-search-organization 'bbdb-company) > (defalias 'bbdb-search-name 'bbdb-name)) Please don't do it this way! Gnus users have been bitten by bugs caused by such aliasing (of `replace-regexp-in-string' in color-theme). The recommended way is like this: ,[ (info "(elisp)Coding Conventions") ] |* If a package needs to define an alias or a new function for | compatibility with some other version of Emacs, name it with the | package prefix, not with the raw name with which it occurs in the | other version. Here is an example from Gnus, which provides many | examples of such compatibility issues. | | (defalias 'gnus-point-at-bol | (if (fboundp 'point-at-bol) | 'point-at-bol | 'line-beginning-position)) ` Bye, Reiner. -- ,,, (o o) ---ooO-(_)-Ooo--- | PGP key available | http://rsteib.home.pages.de/ -- Xperia(TM) PLAY It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming smartphone on the nation's most reliable network. And it wants your games. http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: BBDB beginners guide?
Leo wrote: > Basically I want BBDB to have a standard external format that many > other programs can use. Nowadays keeping contacts in Emacs is > secondary to keeping it in one's mobile phone. Not everybody agrees with this necessarily. I'm using BBDB much more often on my computers than anywhere else and I'm happy to update them manually from time to time on other devices. However, I wouldn't mind a change in the underlying format either. BBDB is lisp so you can tweak it to do whatever you want, regardless of the underlying db storage format. -- Resistance is futile. You will be jazzimilated. Scientific site: http://www.lrde.epita.fr/~didier Music (Jazz) site: http://www.didierverna.com -- Xperia(TM) PLAY It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming smartphone on the nation's most reliable network. And it wants your games. http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: BBDB beginners guide?
On 2011-04-05 21:50 +0800, Roland Winkler wrote: > What do you have in mind? > > I know rather little about vcard beyond that it exists. Over the > years, I have received maybe two or three emails that had a vcard > replacing the signature file. It appears kind of useful to have the > signature file replaced by something that is more easily parsable. > Yet this works only if people are actually using it, which doesn't > hold for my field. In that sense, something like vcards are lower on > my personal agenda. (I know yet less about "XML derivatives" that > you mentioned.) Basically I want BBDB to have a standard external format that many other programs can use. Nowadays keeping contacts in Emacs is secondary to keeping it in one's mobile phone. Although there are 3rd lib that does the export and import they lose information. For example, import a vcard may discard some of the information it contains as there is no corresponding BBDB field. Ron Ross's post is in the same spirit. Leo -- Xperia(TM) PLAY It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming smartphone on the nation's most reliable network. And it wants your games. http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: BBDB beginners guide?
"Roland Winkler" wrote: > However, while I do not know the details of such formats, I expect > that nonetheless it should not be too difficult to develop some code > to import / export bbdb records from / into these formats. I believe I > even once saw some code that allowed the old bbdb to interface with > vcard. I haven't tried the new BBDB yet, but just in case, here's a library that I use to export my BBDB to vcards and subsequently import them in AddressBook. bbdb-vcard-export.el Description: application/emacs-lisp -- Resistance is futile. You will be jazzimilated. Scientific site: http://www.lrde.epita.fr/~didier Music (Jazz) site: http://www.didierverna.com -- Xperia(TM) PLAY It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming smartphone on the nation's most reliable network. And it wants your games. http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: BBDB beginners guide?
On Tue Apr 5 2011 Leo wrote: > This is completely a short in the dark. > > Perhaps BBDB can support (import/export, or even allow storing entries > in it directly) 100% one external format (probably vcard or its XML > derivative). A few years ago when I tried to write an exporter to vcard > I have found the vcard format more comprehensive than bbdb's. What do you have in mind? I know rather little about vcard beyond that it exists. Over the years, I have received maybe two or three emails that had a vcard replacing the signature file. It appears kind of useful to have the signature file replaced by something that is more easily parsable. Yet this works only if people are actually using it, which doesn't hold for my field. In that sense, something like vcards are lower on my personal agenda. (I know yet less about "XML derivatives" that you mentioned.) However, while I do not know the details of such formats, I expect that nonetheless it should not be too difficult to develop some code to import / export bbdb records from / into these formats. I believe I even once saw some code that allowed the old bbdb to interface with vcard. Also, I expect that this should be possible using the existing core functions of BBDB. In that sense, I see no need to push such a thing quickly before the new BBDB goes into a feature freeze. I assume that the changes I already introduced are sufficiently general to allow such future developments. On the other hand, I am not sure whether any elisp based BBDB-like database would benefit from internally using a data format that was significantly different from the BBDB format. I guess it's fair to say that the BBDB format evolved into what we have today because this is what elisp can handle most efficiently. Roland -- Xperia(TM) PLAY It's a major breakthrough. An authentic gaming smartphone on the nation's most reliable network. And it wants your games. http://p.sf.net/sfu/verizon-sfdev ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: BBDB beginners guide?
Roland Winkler writes: > On Mon Apr 4 2011 Leo wrote: >> I personally think it would be far more productive to worry about >> backward compatibility later on. For example, we could add a new >> org-bbdb3 module to org mode and leave the old as it is. > > While I do not know any details of how BBDB is hooked into / > interfacing org mode, I expect that Leo's suggestion is probably the > cleanest way to go (and similar for other packages that might have a > bbdb interface). > Thanks for the reply. That sounds like a good plan. I think org-bbdb can be tweaked to accommodate both the old and the new bbdb without a complete rewrite. I do agree that your code cleanup will yield huge benefits over the long run. So it's better to get the pain of upgrading over at once -- and then enjoy the new and improved bbdb for many years to come! Thanks again, Matt -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: BBDB beginners guide?
On Mon, 04 Apr 2011 08:52:27 -0400 Matt Lundin wrote: ML> I do think it can be productive right now, while development is moving ML> quickly, to ask whether some of the changes, such as reversing the ML> parameters of bbdb-split, are necessary, since they are easier to fix ML> now than they will be later. I imagine "later on" is relative to when ML> the bbdb 3.x series will be officially released. I just joined this ML> list, so I am not yet aware of a development roadmap. ML> In the meantime, if anyone is interested, I found that the following ML> hacks help to make org-bbdb.el work with the new bbdb: I think the function name changes are fine and easy to adjust in Org. Roland is trying to establish a logical naming scheme inside BBDB so I'd rather see the backwards compatibility in Org: (unless (featurep 'bbdb3) ; or whatever (defalias 'bbdb-search-organization 'bbdb-company) (defalias 'bbdb-search-name 'bbdb-name)) ML> (defun bbdb-record-getprop (record label) ML> (and (eq label 'company) ML>(setq label 'organization)) ML> (if (memq label '(name degree organization address phone mail aka)) ML> (funcall ML> (intern ML> (concat "bbdb-record-" (symbol-name label))) ML> record) ML> (bbdb-record-note record label))) Maybe this would be better as a compatibility macro, again, working by default in BBDB3 but falling back to the older methods in BBDB2. ML> (defadvice bbdb-split (around my-bbdb-split activate) ML> (when (or (string= string "\n") (string= string "-")) ML> (let ((sep string)) ML> (setq string separator ML> separator sep))) ML> ad-do-it) I agree with you that swapping the arguments here is not necessary. Ted -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: BBDB beginners guide?
On Mon Apr 4 2011 Leo wrote: > I personally think it would be far more productive to worry about > backward compatibility later on. For example, we could add a new > org-bbdb3 module to org mode and leave the old as it is. While I do not know any details of how BBDB is hooked into / interfacing org mode, I expect that Leo's suggestion is probably the cleanest way to go (and similar for other packages that might have a bbdb interface). Currently I am compiling the ChangeLog for the round of changes that I worked on recently, which I want to put into the repository in a couple of days. Beyond these new changes, I am kind of "running out of ideas" what else could / should be done to upgrade BBDB to an up-to-date package of software, i.e., I think that by now I have done more or less everything that should be done to bring BBDB up to date. So I want to declare a feature freeze for my own BBDB hacking (unless someone else proposes some good ideas what should still be modified / upgraded in BBDB -- suggestions welcome!). There are probably still various bugs in the new code that I have overlooked up to now. So I'd like to wait some time. Then it might be a good time for a first proper release of the new BBDB. Roland -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: BBDB beginners guide?
Leo writes: > On 2011-04-04 10:31 +0800, Matt Lundin wrote: >>> When my updates of BBDB were in a pre-alpha stage and I did not yet >>> have a detailed roadmap where they would take me, I thought that >>> there was really not much of a point trying to continuously (at each >>> intermediate stage) preserve backward compatibility when it would >>> have been possible. >> >> I appreciate all the work you have done to freshen up bbdb! >> >> I, too, have some reservations about the extent of some of the name >> changes. For instance, the new bbdb breaks org-mode's bbdb module, which >> is part of GNU Emacs. > > I personally think it would be far more productive to worry about > backward compatibility later on. For example, we could add a new > org-bbdb3 module to org mode and leave the old as it is. First, let me thank Roland again for the new bbdb; it is a great improvement, and the code has been cleaned up a lot! I do think it can be productive right now, while development is moving quickly, to ask whether some of the changes, such as reversing the parameters of bbdb-split, are necessary, since they are easier to fix now than they will be later. I imagine "later on" is relative to when the bbdb 3.x series will be officially released. I just joined this list, so I am not yet aware of a development roadmap. In the meantime, if anyone is interested, I found that the following hacks help to make org-bbdb.el work with the new bbdb: --8<---cut here---start->8--- (defalias 'bbdb-company 'bbdb-search-organization) (defalias 'bbdb-name 'bbdb-search-name) (defun bbdb-record-getprop (record label) (and (eq label 'company) (setq label 'organization)) (if (memq label '(name degree organization address phone mail aka)) (funcall (intern (concat "bbdb-record-" (symbol-name label))) record) (bbdb-record-note record label))) (defadvice bbdb-split (around my-bbdb-split activate) (when (or (string= string "\n") (string= string "-")) (let ((sep string)) (setq string separator separator sep))) ad-do-it) --8<---cut here---end--->8--- Best, Matt -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: BBDB beginners guide?
On 2011-04-04 10:31 +0800, Matt Lundin wrote: >> When my updates of BBDB were in a pre-alpha stage and I did not yet >> have a detailed roadmap where they would take me, I thought that >> there was really not much of a point trying to continuously (at each >> intermediate stage) preserve backward compatibility when it would >> have been possible. > > I appreciate all the work you have done to freshen up bbdb! > > I, too, have some reservations about the extent of some of the name > changes. For instance, the new bbdb breaks org-mode's bbdb module, which > is part of GNU Emacs. I personally think it would be far more productive to worry about backward compatibility later on. For example, we could add a new org-bbdb3 module to org mode and leave the old as it is. Leo -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: BBDB beginners guide?
"Roland Winkler" writes: > > When my updates of BBDB were in a pre-alpha stage and I did not yet > have a detailed roadmap where they would take me, I thought that > there was really not much of a point trying to continuously (at each > intermediate stage) preserve backward compatibility when it would > have been possible. I appreciate all the work you have done to freshen up bbdb! I, too, have some reservations about the extent of some of the name changes. For instance, the new bbdb breaks org-mode's bbdb module, which is part of GNU Emacs. Some of the breakage can be fixed with defaliases: e.g., (defalias 'bbdb-company 'bbdb-search-organization) (defalias 'bbdb-name 'bbdb-search-name) But other changes require a more complicated workaround. For instance, org-bbdb calls bbdb-split, which used to have arguments in the following order: --8<---cut here---start->8--- (defun bbdb-split (string separators) --8<---cut here---end--->8--- The order above makes sense to me, since it is the conventional order of parameters for split-string functions in emacs. But the new bbdb reverses the order of the argument, thus breaking compatibility with org-bbdb.el: --8<---cut here---start->8--- (defun bbdb-split (separator string) --8<---cut here---end--->8--- Another issue: bbdb-record-note is not as comprehensive as the bbdb-record-getprop; i.e., it only works for some fields. I'd be happy to work on org-bbdb, but since there will likely be users of bbdb 2.35 for a very long time, workarounds will be a bit tricky. Similarly I imagine many emacs users have this hook in their .emacs: (add-hook 'message-setup-hook 'bbdb-define-all-aliases) If these users upgrade to the newest bbdb, message buffer setup will fail, since the name of the function has been changed to bbdb-get-mail-aliases. > Now that the new code has reached a more mature stage, it could make > sense to look over it once more for things like defaliases. (Yet this > might require checking things more carefully, as I also tried to make > the behavior of BBDB more consistent both with respect to differents > parts of BBDB as well as compared with other packages of emacs.) If we are going to break backwards compatibility, perhaps we should provide a clear list and explanation of all the changes on bbdb home page. Please let me know if there's anything I can do to help. Best, Matt -- Create and publish websites with WebMatrix Use the most popular FREE web apps or write code yourself; WebMatrix provides all the features you need to develop and publish your website. http://p.sf.net/sfu/ms-webmatrix-sf ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: BBDB beginners guide?
Uwe Brauer writes: >>> Regarding Re: BBDB beginners guide?; Johnny adds: > Here is my setting: (still using 2.35 with Robert Fenks > extensions) That's a quite extensive example, thanks for this. I will have to take some time and play around with the settings and options available... > > If you are interested I can send you details. > I take you up on that and may ask you later for further explananations, but for now I need to do some digestion of the information already received; the example initialization files are very helpful! Again, many thanks! \Johnny -- The Next 800 Companies to Lead America's Growth: New Video Whitepaper David G. Thomson, author of the best-selling book "Blueprint to a Billion" shares his insights and actions to help propel your business during the next growth cycle. Listen Now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/SAP-dev2dev ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: BBDB beginners guide?
Bruno Tavernier writes: >> Regardless of method, BBDB keeps asking me to add mails! How can I make >> it stop doing that? > > Here is what I use > | ; Stop showing when updates occur > | (setq bbdb-message-pop-up nil) Thanks Bruno, this solves the query popping up! Regarding fine tuning of the initialisation parameters, I will have to keep your settings example to play around with and understand the tuning of BBDB and Gnus. Cheers, Johnny -- The Next 800 Companies to Lead America's Growth: New Video Whitepaper David G. Thomson, author of the best-selling book "Blueprint to a Billion" shares his insights and actions to help propel your business during the next growth cycle. Listen Now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/SAP-dev2dev ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: BBDB beginners guide?
"Roland Winkler" writes: Thanks for your reply and effort put in to developing BBDB! Sorry for the delay in replying, I was tied up with work recently, without Gnu/Linux access. Thanks to the help from here, I have now found the solution solved this by adding the following line to emacs init.el: (setq bbdb-message-pop-up nil) > Updating the info pages is on my todo list. But it's a somewhat bigger > project. I am sorry for the delay. Volunteers welcome! >From the discussion it seems there are relatively minor changes in BBDB 3.xx. For my purposes, I will keep learning from the 2.35 manual with this in mind. I will keep mind the volunteering request, but alas I am completely inexperienced there as well! >> bbdb-add-address(es) in the online documentation and set this to nil >> or 'never. > > Is this a typo? I believe there was never such a variable. Yes, sorry, this should be bbdb-always-add-addresses as in section 1.7.1 of the BBDB 2.35 manual. >> Regardless of method, BBDB keeps asking me to add mails! How can I >> make it stop doing that? > > In which context is BBDB asking you this? When you are reading mail or > news with Gnus? Also, what do you mean by "adding mails"? Creating > new records? Note that bbdb-add-mails refers to adding mail addresses > to existing records. It has nothing to do with creation of new > records. (It seems the docstring of this variable could be improved.) You are right, it should be new records. Each time a new mail sender or news poster is encountered, BBDB asks to add a record of the unknown address to the database. This was resolved by setting the bbdb-message-popup variable to nil. Regards, Johnny -- The Next 800 Companies to Lead America's Growth: New Video Whitepaper David G. Thomson, author of the best-selling book "Blueprint to a Billion" shares his insights and actions to help propel your business during the next growth cycle. Listen Now! http://p.sf.net/sfu/SAP-dev2dev ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: BBDB beginners guide?
>> Regarding Re: BBDB beginners guide?; "Roland Winkler" adds: > I was just looking at these things once more, and I think that > Johnny's original request provides a good example for why I did > these changes. Johnny asked about the variable bbdb-add-mails in > BBDB 3.XX. In BBDB 2.XX this was called bbdb-always-add-addresses. > Why was the old name very confusing? Because the core functions of > BBDB called email addresses "net", while "address" was used for > snail mail addresses. Yet (later?) add-ons to BBDB 2.XX also used > "mail", "email" and "address" for this purpose. > In BBDB 3.XX I tried to use consistently "address" for snail mail > addresses and "mail" for email addresses. Right it provides a good example but also for my point. Although I may find your convention logical, I don't understand why you can't just keep the name of the old variable and change things the way you find convenient. I use bbdb-always-add-addresses variable so when I will try out 3.X I suppose I will receive an error message and will not have a direct idea which substitute to use. If you had kept the name abd may be changing its doc string things would be much more compatible. Uwe -- Achieve Improved Network Security with IP and DNS Reputation. Defend against bad network traffic, including botnets, malware, phishing sites, and compromised hosts - saving your company time, money, and embarrassment. Learn More! http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpdev2dev-nov ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: BBDB beginners guide?
>> Regarding Re: BBDB beginners guide?; "Roland Winkler" adds: > I believe that these things cannot be seen independently. I believe > that a main reason why BBDB did not evolve anymore for quite some > time was related to the fact that its code had reached a stage that > made it very difficult for anyone to make any changes to it. > Initially, when I started with this project, I tried to keep the > code more backward compatible. Yet at some point, I realized that I > would not get anywhere with my attempts, unless I took more drastic > steps, i.e., the internals of BBDB have changed significantly. I can believe that. >> Well in that case defalias should be used for backward >> compatibility. > When my updates of BBDB were in a pre-alpha stage and I > did not yet have a detailed roadmap where they would > take me, I thought that there was really not much of a > point trying to continuously (at each intermediate > stage) preserve backward compatibility when it would > have been possible. > Now that the new code has reached a more mature stage, > it could make sense to look over it once more for > things like defaliases. (Yet this might require > checking things more carefully, as I also tried to make > the behavior of BBDB more consistent both with respect > to differents parts of BBDB as well as compared with > other packages of emacs.) I think this is a very important issue. As I said I had not the time of even trying it out. But now that I know that I have to check all sort of variables and dig into documentation I somehow hesitate to try. Bbdb is very mature and may be long time users like me feel the same way but I don't know for sure. Just out of curiosity what happened with the code I wrote (namely some splitting functionality for gnus, and I think also my selection of the ispell dictionary based on bbdb.) and Wyder patched in, did you rewrite the code, did you deleted it? Uwe -- Achieve Improved Network Security with IP and DNS Reputation. Defend against bad network traffic, including botnets, malware, phishing sites, and compromised hosts - saving your company time, money, and embarrassment. Learn More! http://p.sf.net/sfu/hpdev2dev-nov ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: BBDB beginners guide?
On Sat Oct 30 2010 Uwe Brauer wrote: >> and use more meaningful names. > > This, in my opinion, is a very bad idea. > Taste is subjective and once names are chosen they become a > convention. To break backward compatibility deliberately has > no benefit I can think off. I was just looking at these things once more, and I think that Johnny's original request provides a good example for why I did these changes. Johnny asked about the variable bbdb-add-mails in BBDB 3.XX. In BBDB 2.XX this was called bbdb-always-add-addresses. Why was the old name very confusing? Because the core functions of BBDB called email addresses "net", while "address" was used for snail mail addresses. Yet (later?) add-ons to BBDB 2.XX also used "mail", "email" and "address" for this purpose. In BBDB 3.XX I tried to use consistently "address" for snail mail addresses and "mail" for email addresses. Cheers, Roland -- Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in U.S. and Canada $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: BBDB beginners guide?
Hi Uwe I am sorry for the delayed reply. > First of all I did not mean to attack you, sorry if I have > caused that impression. No problem, any feedback is appreciated! >> From bbdb home page it appears the code did not evolve >> for a long time (Jan 2007). > > That is correct. (Same was true for VM) > >> I think Roland wrote bbbd 3.0 with the idea to remove >> some crufts, enhance the clarity of the code >> (function's description, etc.) > > So far so good, I appreciate that effort > >> and use more meaningful names. > > This, in my opinion, is a very bad idea. > Taste is subjective and once names are chosen they become a > convention. To break backward compatibility deliberately has > no benefit I can think off. I believe that these things cannot be seen independently. I believe that a main reason why BBDB did not evolve anymore for quite some time was related to the fact that its code had reached a stage that made it very difficult for anyone to make any changes to it. Initially, when I started with this project, I tried to keep the code more backward compatible. Yet at some point, I realized that I would not get anywhere with my attempts, unless I took more drastic steps, i.e., the internals of BBDB have changed significantly. > Well in that case defalias should be used for backward > compatibility. When my updates of BBDB were in a pre-alpha stage and I did not yet have a detailed roadmap where they would take me, I thought that there was really not much of a point trying to continuously (at each intermediate stage) preserve backward compatibility when it would have been possible. Now that the new code has reached a more mature stage, it could make sense to look over it once more for things like defaliases. (Yet this might require checking things more carefully, as I also tried to make the behavior of BBDB more consistent both with respect to differents parts of BBDB as well as compared with other packages of emacs.) Again, volunteers welcome! Cheers, Roland -- Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in U.S. and Canada $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: BBDB beginners guide?
On Fri Oct 29 2010 Johnny wrote: > I recently discovered Gnus and BBDB with that; found the most recent > development by Roland on Savannah which I downloaded and installed > successfully. Now, I am trying to figure out different settings and > configurations how to use BBDB effectively; are there any good guides or > sources of information where I should start? To see which commands you can use, I suggest looking at the BBDB menu in the menubar. It shows you both the commands that are available as well keybinding shortcuts. (For me, this is a general strategy for any new emacs package I like to work with.) > Ok, I have realised that the BBDB 2.35 documentation works ok and > using 'C-h a', 'C-h v' goes a long way. Updating the info pages is on my todo list. But it's a somewhat bigger project. I am sorry for the delay. Volunteers welcome! One more thing: though in general I do not use Emacs customize myself, I tried to group BBDB variables into custom groups such that you find in one location all the BBDB variables that do belong together, say, for the display of BBDB records, or for editing them (unlike what you get with C-h a). By the way, I said multiple times on this list that I am only using BBDB with VM; but I have not been able to test BBDB 3.XX with Gnus. Any feedback on the interplay of Gnus with BBDB 3.XX is appreciated! There might still be some silly bugs. > However, I am trying to make BBDB stop > asking me to add mail addresses. I found: > > bbdb-add-address(es) in the online documentation and set this to > nil or 'never. Is this a typo? I believe there was never such a variable. In any case, for BBDB "address" refers to snail mail addresses and "mail" refers to email addresses. > I also found: > > bbdb-add-mails by 'C-h v' and set this to nil > > Regardless of method, BBDB keeps asking me to add mails! How can I > make it stop doing that? In which context is BBDB asking you this? When you are reading mail or news with Gnus? Also, what do you mean by "adding mails"? Creating new records? Note that bbdb-add-mails refers to adding mail addresses to existing records. It has nothing to do with creation of new records. (It seems the docstring of this variable could be improved.) Concerning the creation of new records: My intention has been to have the default settings for BBDB the least obtrusive. And with VM I think this works, so only if you configure some variables, BBDB will create new records. Cheers, Roland -- Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in U.S. and Canada $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: BBDB beginners guide?
>> Regarding Re: BBDB beginners guide?; Bruno Tavernier >> adds: Hi Bruno, > CC: To Roland > Hello Uwe, First of all I did not mean to attack you, sorry if I have caused that impression. > From bbdb home page it appears the code did not evolve > for a long time (Jan 2007). That is correct. (Same was true for VM) > I think Roland wrote bbbd 3.0 with the idea to remove > some crufts, enhance the clarity of the code > (function's description, etc.) So far so good, I appreciate that effort > and use more meaningful names. This, in my opinion, is a very bad idea. Taste is subjective and once names are chosen they become a convention. To break backward compatibility deliberately has no benefit I can think off. > From my point of view he managed to do it well. (I am > glad to see the project with a maintainer). So do I. > Also, I think that only a few variables were > changed. Well in that case defalias should be used for backward compatibility. > Updating my conf was not much of a big deal <- > I am not an emacs old timer, though. I don't have > strong habits yet. ;-) Well I am using it for almost 20 years. It is not the habit it is backward compatibility which bothers me. Regards Uwe Brauer -- Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in U.S. and Canada $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: BBDB beginners guide?
CC: To Roland Hello Uwe, Uwe Brauer writes: > > Beg your pardon? I am still using 2.35 and hadn't the time > to give 3.x a try. The names of the variables are changed, > but why. I consider this as a *terrible* design > decision. Why loose the compatibility. >From bbdb home page it appears the code did not evolve for a long time (Jan 2007). I think Roland wrote bbbd 3.0 with the idea to remove some crufts, enhance the clarity of the code (function's description, etc.) and use more meaningful names. >From my point of view he managed to do it well. (I am glad to see the project with a maintainer). Also, I think that only a few variables were changed. Updating my conf was not much of a big deal <- I am not an emacs old timer, though. I don't have strong habits yet. ;-) -- Bruno -- Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in U.S. and Canada $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: BBDB beginners guide?
>> Regarding Re: BBDB beginners guide?; Johnny adds: > Ok, I have realised that the BBDB 2.35 documentation works ok and using > 'C-h a', 'C-h v' goes a long way. However, I am trying to make BBDB stop > asking me to add mail addresses. I found: > bbdb-add-address(es) in the online documentation and set this to nil or > 'never. Here is my setting: (still using 2.35 with Robert Fenks extensions) (require 'bbdb) (setq bbdb-use-pop-up nil bbdb-completion-display-record t) (add-hook 'mail-setup-hook 'bbdb-define-all-aliases) (add-hook 'gnus-message-setup-hook 'bbdb-define-all-aliases) (add-hook 'wl-mail-setup-hook 'bbdb-define-all-aliases) (setq bbdb-quiet-about-name-mismatches t) ;; that is useful since some mail clients don't deal with ;; NON ASCII chars in the same way. So Sometimes you receive ;; José sometims Jose (setq bbdb-send-mail-style 'gnus) ;chance that (setq bbdb-dwim-net-address-allow-redundancy t) (autoload 'bbdb/vm-auto-add-label "bbdb-vm" "Run VM major mode on a buffer" nil) (add-hook 'bbdb-notice-hook 'bbdb/vm-auto-add-label) (setq bbdb-complete-name-allow-cycling t) (bbdb-initialize 'gnus 'message) (add-hook 'gnus-startup-hook 'bbdb-insinuate-gnus) (require 'bbdb-anniv) (add-hook 'list-diary-entries-hook #'bbdb-include-anniversaries) (require 'bbdb-rf) In this setting every new mail (even spam) will add an entry to the BBDB (I once reached 3000 entries) that is where bbdb-expire comes in handy (require 'bbdb-expire) (setq bbdb-expire-this-old 7) ; all bbdb entries older than 7 days will be deleted, The only exceptions are entries with have the following fields. (bbdb-expire-field-foo-p 'mail-alias) (bbdb-expire-field-foo-p 'vm-folder) (bbdb-expire-field-foo-p 'vm-virtual) (bbdb-expire-field-foo-p 'tel) (bbdb-expire-field-foo-p 'news) (bbdb-expire-field-foo-p 'signature) (bbdb-expire-field-foo-p 'imap) ;Version:1.111 (bbdb-expire-field-foo-p 'mail-hierarchy) ;Version:1.112 (bbdb-expire-field-foo-p 'birthday) (bbdb-expire-field-foo-p 'face) (bbdb-expire-field-foo-p 'www) (setq bbdb-expire-preservation-functions '(bbdb-expire-field-permanent-p bbdb-expire-field-mail-alias-p bbdb-expire-field-vm-folder-p bbdb-expire-field-vm-virtual-p bbdb-expire-field-signature-p bbdb-expire-field-tel-p bbdb-expire-field-imap-p bbdb-expire-field-mail-hierarchy-p bbdb-expire-field-face-p bbdb-expire-field-birthday-p bbdb-expire-field-www-p bbdb-expire-field-news-p bbdb-expire-field-notes-p)) (bbdb-expire-initialize) Another extremely useful pkg is moy-bbdb since it adds an entry one a message is sent (and had no bbdb entry) (require 'moy-bbdb) (autoload 'bbdb/send-hook "moy-bbdb" "Function to be added to `message-send-hook' to notice records when sending messages" t) (add-hook 'message-send-hook 'bbdb/send-hook) ; If you use Gnus (add-hook 'mail-send-hook 'bbdb/send-hook) ; For other mailers ; (VM, Rmail) I also use the gnus splitting method and split messages according to their bbdb entry (I think this code is included in the official bbdb pkg) You can then use sigadapt which inserts signatures according bbdb entries. I used that code and have extension for adding gcc fields according to the bbdb entries and set also the ispell dictionary according to a bbdb entry called ispell-dict. If you are interested I can send you details. Uwe Brauer -- Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in U.S. and Canada $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: BBDB beginners guide?
>> Regarding Re: BBDB beginners guide?; Bruno Tavernier >> adds: > Hey Johnny, > First of all, some variables name have changed between > the 2.x and 3.x versions. Beg your pardon? I am still using 2.35 and hadn't the time to give 3.x a try. The names of the variables are changed, but why. I consider this as a *terrible* design decision. Why loose the compatibility. regards Uwe Brauer -- Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in U.S. and Canada $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: BBDB beginners guide?
Hey Johnny, First of all, some variables name have changed between the 2.x and 3.x versions. Until a new info file is made, you'll have to look by yourself. After loading bbdb , | describe-variable -> bbdb ` The name are usually explicit. Note you could probably use the customize interface for that as well. Johnny writes: > Regardless of method, BBDB keeps asking me to add mails! How can I make > it stop doing that? Here is what I use , | (autoload 'bbdb "bbdb" "Big Brother DataBase" t) | | (eval-after-load "bbdb" | '(progn | (bbdb-initialize))) | | ; Stop showing when updates occur | (setq bbdb-message-pop-up nil) | | ; Stop echoing messages | (setq bbdb-silent t) | | ; Don't show completions in a new buffer | (setq bbdb-completion-display-record nil) | | ; Be quiet if names mismatch | (setq bbdb-accept-name-mismatch t) | | ; Don't ask me if I want to save the data base (automatically yes) | (setq bbdb-check-auto-save-file nil) | | ; Prevent bbdb from creating a new entry when reading mail/news | (setq bbdb-add-mails nil) | | ; Make bbdb-complete-mail cycle when several addresses | (setq bbdb-complete-mail-allow-cycling t) | | ; Insert name + email | (setq bbdb-mail-allow-redundancy t) ` And for gnus , | (require 'bbdb) | (bbdb-initialize 'gnus 'message) | ; Complete email on TAB | (define-key message-mode-map (kbd "TAB") 'bbdb-complete-mail) ` Hope this helps -- Bruno -- Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in U.S. and Canada $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
Re: BBDB beginners guide?
Ok, I have realised that the BBDB 2.35 documentation works ok and using 'C-h a', 'C-h v' goes a long way. However, I am trying to make BBDB stop asking me to add mail addresses. I found: bbdb-add-address(es) in the online documentation and set this to nil or 'never. I also found: bbdb-add-mails by 'C-h v' and set this to nil Regardless of method, BBDB keeps asking me to add mails! How can I make it stop doing that? -- Nokia and AT&T present the 2010 Calling All Innovators-North America contest Create new apps & games for the Nokia N8 for consumers in U.S. and Canada $10 million total in prizes - $4M cash, 500 devices, nearly $6M in marketing Develop with Nokia Qt SDK, Web Runtime, or Java and Publish to Ovi Store http://p.sf.net/sfu/nokia-dev2dev ___ bbdb-info@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/bbdb-info BBDB Home Page: http://bbdb.sourceforge.net/
