Re: [blind-gamers] Muds

[john]

It is. Additionally the game is automatically configured for better 
screen reader support.



On 2/22/2023 2:18, Jude DaShiell wrote:

So far as I know, if you use the sound pack for alteraeon, port 3010 is
automatically used.



Jude 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.

On Wed, 22 Feb 2023, Heather Seaman wrote:


You can look it up under Blind Player Support, near the top of the home page. I 
can't remember everything on that page but it did say the port turned off ansi 
art. Look it up if you're interested.

On Feb 21, 2023 10:16 PM, Travis Siegel  wrote:

   What?

   This is the first I've heard of this.

   I've been playing alter aeon for years, and never knew they had a blind 
friendly port.

   What does it offer that the main mud port does not?

   What's the purpose?

   (honestly, I don't see the point, but whatever works I guess).


   On 2/21/2023 6:05 PM, Heather Seaman wrote:

   If you play Alter Aeon just be sure to use their blind-friendly port. I 
believe it's 3010. Type that into your client of choice along with the address 
to shut off art and
   possibly other graphical elements. I don't know if that also activates 
their screen reader mode or if you have to do that from the character creation 
screen.

   On Feb 21, 2023 1:31 PM, Lindsay 
Cowell  wrote:

 Any mud will do, just need to be able to customize things like the 
prompt. I hate it when Jaws is coming out with random words and numbers.

  

  


 From:blind-gamers@groups.ioOn Behalf 
Of Travis Siegel
 Sent: 21 February 2023 14:10
 To:blind-gamers@groups.io
 Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] Muds

  


There aren't many muds with sound packs, mostly because nobody has taken the 
time to create one.

If you're working on strictly soundpack muds, alter aeon is your best bet.

If you want something with lots of newbie helpers, and one that has lots and 
lots to do, then try 3k.org.  It also has a sister mud at 3scapes.org if you 
like the one, you'll
probably like the other one, since they share many of the same features.

I also log into ancient anguish from time to time, just because it's been 
around since the 90s, and I used to play on it back then, so I still pop in 
every now and then just to
see what's going on. Occasionally I'll play for a few months, then bow out 
again for months to years at a time, but I do tend to drop by again afterwords 
just to see what
changed.

If you're looking for a huge gaming area, and loads and loads of races to 
choose from, then lostsouls.org is probably the one you want, though I stopped 
playing there years ago
when they expanded the mud to something like three times it's original size, 
and their navigation went out the window.  It's probably considerably easier 
for someone who never
played under the old system, but I quit playing when I couldn't find anything 
anymore, and discovered that their expansion didn't account for things like 
roads that just ended in
the middle of nowhere, and then you'd find little settlements scattered all 
over the plains with absolutely markings to help find your way back to it.

Which, honestly, was a real shame, because I'd played on that mud for nearly 20 
years before leaving that one after those impossible (for me) changes.  It's 
still a great mud, I
just can't handle it anymore.

  


On 2/21/2023 4:38 AM, Lindsay Cowell wrote:

   Hi




   I feel like creating a character on a mud that is easy to follow. I know 
how to move around in a mud, but I don?t want anything too complicated, as a 
lot of them don?t
   have sound packs.




   Lindsay Cowell









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Re: [blind-gamers] Muds

[Jude DaShiell]

responded to the wrong message.  in unofficial square soft mud make an
action out of a line that says to this account and put your character name
in that action as its second parameter.  It works like a charm.  Putting a
blank response in didn't work.



Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.

On Wed, 22 Feb 2023, Jude DaShiell wrote:

> I almost got a .tin file put together for unofficial square soft mud.
> The problem for me is my Character name? action fires off too soon and I
> don't know what to do for that with tintin.
> Now I think of it, I could put a duplicate action in for character name
> and have the first character name prompt only have {} then have the second
> have my actual character name in it.  I don't know if that'll work but
> worth trying.
> A couple questions about the sound pack.  Is that only for windows?  If it
> can be run under Linux, what's the download address?
>
>
>
> Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
> defense of liberty:
>  soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
> -Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
>
> .
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>


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Re: [blind-gamers] Muds

[Jude DaShiell]

I almost got a .tin file put together for unofficial square soft mud.
The problem for me is my Character name? action fires off too soon and I
don't know what to do for that with tintin.
Now I think of it, I could put a duplicate action in for character name
and have the first character name prompt only have {} then have the second
have my actual character name in it.  I don't know if that'll work but
worth trying.
A couple questions about the sound pack.  Is that only for windows?  If it
can be run under Linux, what's the download address?



Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.



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Re: [blind-gamers] Muds

[Jude DaShiell]

So far as I know, if you use the sound pack for alteraeon, port 3010 is
automatically used.



Jude 
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.

On Wed, 22 Feb 2023, Heather Seaman wrote:

>
> You can look it up under Blind Player Support, near the top of the home page. 
> I can't remember everything on that page but it did say the port turned off 
> ansi art. Look it up if you're interested.
>
> On Feb 21, 2023 10:16 PM, Travis Siegel  wrote:
>
>   What?
>
>   This is the first I've heard of this.
>
>   I've been playing alter aeon for years, and never knew they had a blind 
> friendly port.
>
>   What does it offer that the main mud port does not?
>
>   What's the purpose?
>
>   (honestly, I don't see the point, but whatever works I guess).
>
>
>   On 2/21/2023 6:05 PM, Heather Seaman wrote:
>
>   If you play Alter Aeon just be sure to use their blind-friendly port. I 
> believe it's 3010. Type that into your client of choice along with the 
> address to shut off art and
>   possibly other graphical elements. I don't know if that also activates 
> their screen reader mode or if you have to do that from the character 
> creation screen.
>
>   On Feb 21, 2023 1:31 PM, Lindsay Cowell 
>  wrote:
>
> Any mud will do, just need to be able to customize things like 
> the prompt. I hate it when Jaws is coming out with random words and numbers.
>
>  
>
>  
>
> From: blind-gamers@groups.io  On Behalf 
> Of Travis Siegel
> Sent: 21 February 2023 14:10
> To: blind-gamers@groups.io
> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] Muds
>
>  
>
> There aren't many muds with sound packs, mostly because nobody has taken the 
> time to create one.
>
> If you're working on strictly soundpack muds, alter aeon is your best bet.
>
> If you want something with lots of newbie helpers, and one that has lots and 
> lots to do, then try 3k.org.  It also has a sister mud at 3scapes.org if you 
> like the one, you'll
> probably like the other one, since they share many of the same features.
>
> I also log into ancient anguish from time to time, just because it's been 
> around since the 90s, and I used to play on it back then, so I still pop in 
> every now and then just to
> see what's going on. Occasionally I'll play for a few months, then bow out 
> again for months to years at a time, but I do tend to drop by again 
> afterwords just to see what
> changed.
>
> If you're looking for a huge gaming area, and loads and loads of races to 
> choose from, then lostsouls.org is probably the one you want, though I 
> stopped playing there years ago
> when they expanded the mud to something like three times it's original size, 
> and their navigation went out the window.  It's probably considerably easier 
> for someone who never
> played under the old system, but I quit playing when I couldn't find anything 
> anymore, and discovered that their expansion didn't account for things like 
> roads that just ended in
> the middle of nowhere, and then you'd find little settlements scattered all 
> over the plains with absolutely markings to help find your way back to it.
>
> Which, honestly, was a real shame, because I'd played on that mud for nearly 
> 20 years before leaving that one after those impossible (for me) changes.  
> It's still a great mud, I
> just can't handle it anymore.
>
>  
>
> On 2/21/2023 4:38 AM, Lindsay Cowell wrote:
>
>   Hi
>
>    
>
>   I feel like creating a character on a mud that is easy to follow. I 
> know how to move around in a mud, but I don?t want anything too complicated, 
> as a lot of them don?t
>   have sound packs.
>
>    
>
>   Lindsay Cowell
>
> 
>
>


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Re: [blind-gamers] Muds

[Heather Seaman]

You can look it up under Blind Player Support, near the top of the home page. I can't remember everything on that page but it did say the port turned off ansi art. Look it up if you're interested. 
On Feb 21, 2023 10:16 PM, Travis Siegel  wrote:
What?
This is the first I've heard of this.
I've been playing alter aeon for years, and never knew they had a
  blind friendly port.
What does it offer that the main mud port does not?
What's the purpose?
(honestly, I don't see the point, but whatever works I guess).


On 2/21/2023 6:05 PM, Heather Seaman
  wrote:


  If you play Alter Aeon just be sure to use their
blind-friendly port. I believe it's 3010. Type that into your
client of choice along with the address to shut off art and
possibly other graphical elements. I don't know if that also
activates their screen reader mode or if you have to do that
from the character creation screen. 
  On Feb 21, 2023 1:31 PM, Lindsay Cowell
 wrote:

  

  Any mud will do, just need to be able to customize
things like the prompt. I hate it when Jaws is coming
out with random words and numbers.
   
   
  

  From: blind-gamers@groups.io
 On Behalf Of Travis
Siegel
Sent: 21 February 2023 14:10
To: blind-gamers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] Muds

  
   
  There aren't many muds with sound packs, mostly because
nobody has taken the time to create one.
  If you're working on strictly soundpack muds, alter
aeon is your best bet.
  If you want something with lots of newbie helpers, and
one that has lots and lots to do, then try 3k.org.  It
also has a sister mud at 3scapes.org if you like the
one, you'll probably like the other one, since they
share many of the same features.
  I also log into ancient anguish from time to time, just
because it's been around since the 90s, and I used to
play on it back then, so I still pop in every now and
then just to see what's going on. Occasionally I'll play
for a few months, then bow out again for months to years
at a time, but I do tend to drop by again afterwords
just to see what changed.
  If you're looking for a huge gaming area, and loads and
loads of races to choose from, then lostsouls.org is
probably the one you want, though I stopped playing
there years ago when they expanded the mud to something
like three times it's original size, and their
navigation went out the window.  It's probably
considerably easier for someone who never played under
the old system, but I quit playing when I couldn't find
anything anymore, and discovered that their expansion
didn't account for things like roads that just ended in
the middle of nowhere, and then you'd find little
settlements scattered all over the plains with
absolutely markings to help find your way back to it.
  Which, honestly, was a real shame, because I'd played
on that mud for nearly 20 years before leaving that one
after those impossible (for me) changes.  It's still a
great mud, I just can't handle it anymore.
   
  
On 2/21/2023 4:38 AM, Lindsay Cowell wrote:
  
  

  Hi
   
  I feel like creating a character on a mud that is
easy to follow. I know how to move around in a mud,
but I don’t want anything too complicated, as a lot
of them don’t have sound packs.
   
  Lindsay Cowell

  

  

  
  

  






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Re: [blind-gamers] Muds

[Richard Sherman]

Hi,
There is also squaresoft mud. The link is:
 
https://uossmud.sandwich.net
 
It has a sound pack and runs on the same mud client as alter aeon does. Just 
configured for that mud of course.
 
Shermator
 
From: blind-gamers@groups.io  On Behalf Of Lindsay 
Cowell
Sent: Tuesday, February 21, 2023 11:32 AM


Any mud will do, just need to be able to customize things like the prompt. I 
hate it when Jaws is coming out with random words and numbers.
 
 
From: blind-gamers@groups.io  On Behalf Of Travis Siegel
Sent: 21 February 2023 14:10
To: blind-gamers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] Muds
 
There aren't many muds with sound packs, mostly because nobody has taken the 
time to create one.
If you're working on strictly soundpack muds, alter aeon is your best bet.
If you want something with lots of newbie helpers, and one that has lots and 
lots to do, then try 3k.org.  It also has a sister mud at 3scapes.org if you 
like the one, you'll probably like the other one, since they share many of the 
same features.
I also log into ancient anguish from time to time, just because it's been 
around since the 90s, and I used to play on it back then, so I still pop in 
every now and then just to see what's going on. Occasionally I'll play for a 
few months, then bow out again for months to years at a time, but I do tend to 
drop by again afterwords just to see what changed.
If you're looking for a huge gaming area, and loads and loads of races to 
choose from, then lostsouls.org is probably the one you want, though I stopped 
playing there years ago when they expanded the mud to something like three 
times it's original size, and their navigation went out the window.  It's 
probably considerably easier for someone who never played under the old system, 
but I quit playing when I couldn't find anything anymore, and discovered that 
their expansion didn't account for things like roads that just ended in the 
middle of nowhere, and then you'd find little settlements scattered all over 
the plains with absolutely markings to help find your way back to it.
Which, honestly, was a real shame, because I'd played on that mud for nearly 20 
years before leaving that one after those impossible (for me) changes.  It's 
still a great mud, I just can't handle it anymore.
 
On 2/21/2023 4:38 AM, Lindsay Cowell wrote:
Hi
 
I feel like creating a character on a mud that is easy to follow. I know how to 
move around in a mud, but I don’t want anything too complicated, as a lot of 
them don’t have sound packs.
 
Lindsay Cowell



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Re: [blind-gamers] Muds

[Travis Siegel]

What?

This is the first I've heard of this.

I've been playing alter aeon for years, and never knew they had a blind 
friendly port.


What does it offer that the main mud port does not?

What's the purpose?

(honestly, I don't see the point, but whatever works I guess).


On 2/21/2023 6:05 PM, Heather Seaman wrote:


If you play Alter Aeon just be sure to use their blind-friendly port. 
I believe it's 3010. Type that into your client of choice along with 
the address to shut off art and possibly other graphical elements. I 
don't know if that also activates their screen reader mode or if you 
have to do that from the character creation screen.


On Feb 21, 2023 1:31 PM, Lindsay Cowell 
 wrote:


Any mud will do, just need to be able to customize things like the
prompt. I hate it when Jaws is coming out with random words and
numbers.

*From:* blind-gamers@groups.io  *On Behalf
Of *Travis Siegel
*Sent:* 21 February 2023 14:10
*To:* blind-gamers@groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [blind-gamers] Muds

There aren't many muds with sound packs, mostly because nobody has
taken the time to create one.

If you're working on strictly soundpack muds, alter aeon is your
best bet.

If you want something with lots of newbie helpers, and one that
has lots and lots to do, then try 3k.org.  It also has a sister
mud at 3scapes.org if you like the one, you'll probably like the
other one, since they share many of the same features.

I also log into ancient anguish from time to time, just because
it's been around since the 90s, and I used to play on it back
then, so I still pop in every now and then just to see what's
going on. Occasionally I'll play for a few months, then bow out
again for months to years at a time, but I do tend to drop by
again afterwords just to see what changed.

If you're looking for a huge gaming area, and loads and loads of
races to choose from, then lostsouls.org is probably the one you
want, though I stopped playing there years ago when they expanded
the mud to something like three times it's original size, and
their navigation went out the window.  It's probably considerably
easier for someone who never played under the old system, but I
quit playing when I couldn't find anything anymore, and discovered
that their expansion didn't account for things like roads that
just ended in the middle of nowhere, and then you'd find little
settlements scattered all over the plains with absolutely markings
to help find your way back to it.

Which, honestly, was a real shame, because I'd played on that mud
for nearly 20 years before leaving that one after those impossible
(for me) changes.  It's still a great mud, I just can't handle it
anymore.

On 2/21/2023 4:38 AM, Lindsay Cowell wrote:

Hi

I feel like creating a character on a mud that is easy to
follow. I know how to move around in a mud, but I don’t want
anything too complicated, as a lot of them don’t have sound packs.

Lindsay Cowell





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Re: [blind-gamers] Muds

[Heather Seaman]

A YouTuber I follow plays something called The Gathering. It has some quirky features like each race technically being unable to communicate with other races unless you learn their language, and that you have to write an 8-line description of your character before you can progress beyond level 15. But some of the races sound pretty interesting; you can play as a bear or a brownie, for instance. I don't know whether The Gathering is actually a mud, though that's how I'd classify it based on what I've seen of gameplay. 
On Feb 21, 2023 9:09 AM, Travis Siegel  wrote:
There aren't many muds with sound packs, mostly because nobody
  has taken the time to create one.
If you're working on strictly soundpack muds, alter aeon is your
  best bet.
If you want something with lots of newbie helpers, and one that
  has lots and lots to do, then try 3k.org.  It also has a sister
  mud at 3scapes.org if you like the one, you'll probably like the
  other one, since they share many of the same features.
I also log into ancient anguish from time to time, just because
  it's been around since the 90s, and I used to play on it back
  then, so I still pop in every now and then just to see what's
  going on. Occasionally I'll play for a few months, then bow out
  again for months to years at a time, but I do tend to drop by
  again afterwords just to see what changed.

If you're looking for a huge gaming area, and loads and loads of
  races to choose from, then lostsouls.org is probably the one you
  want, though I stopped playing there years ago when they expanded
  the mud to something like three times it's original size, and
  their navigation went out the window.  It's probably considerably
  easier for someone who never played under the old system, but I
  quit playing when I couldn't find anything anymore, and discovered
  that their expansion didn't account for things like roads that
  just ended in the middle of nowhere, and then you'd find little
  settlements scattered all over the plains with absolutely markings
  to help find your way back to it.
Which, honestly, was a real shame, because I'd played on that mud
  for nearly 20 years before leaving that one after those impossible
  (for me) changes.  It's still a great mud, I just can't handle it
  anymore.


On 2/21/2023 4:38 AM, Lindsay Cowell
  wrote:


  
  
Hi
 
I feel like creating a character on a mud
  that is easy to follow. I know how to move around in a mud,
  but I don’t want anything too complicated, as a lot of them
  don’t have sound packs.
 
Lindsay Cowell
  
  

  






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Re: [blind-gamers] Muds

[Heather Seaman]

If you play Alter Aeon just be sure to use their blind-friendly port. I believe it's 3010. Type that into your client of choice along with the address to shut off art and possibly other graphical elements. I don't know if that also activates their screen reader mode or if you have to do that from the character creation screen. 
On Feb 21, 2023 1:31 PM, Lindsay Cowell  wrote:Any mud will do, just need to be able to customize things like the prompt. I hate it when Jaws is coming out with random words and numbers.  From: blind-gamers@groups.io  On Behalf Of Travis SiegelSent: 21 February 2023 14:10To: blind-gamers@groups.ioSubject: Re: [blind-gamers] Muds There aren't many muds with sound packs, mostly because nobody has taken the time to create one.If you're working on strictly soundpack muds, alter aeon is your best bet.If you want something with lots of newbie helpers, and one that has lots and lots to do, then try 3k.org.  It also has a sister mud at 3scapes.org if you like the one, you'll probably like the other one, since they share many of the same features.I also log into ancient anguish from time to time, just because it's been around since the 90s, and I used to play on it back then, so I still pop in every now and then just to see what's going on. Occasionally I'll play for a few months, then bow out again for months to years at a time, but I do tend to drop by again afterwords just to see what changed.If you're looking for a huge gaming area, and loads and loads of races to choose from, then lostsouls.org is probably the one you want, though I stopped playing there years ago when they expanded the mud to something like three times it's original size, and their navigation went out the window.  It's probably considerably easier for someone who never played under the old system, but I quit playing when I couldn't find anything anymore, and discovered that their expansion didn't account for things like roads that just ended in the middle of nowhere, and then you'd find little settlements scattered all over the plains with absolutely markings to help find your way back to it.Which, honestly, was a real shame, because I'd played on that mud for nearly 20 years before leaving that one after those impossible (for me) changes.  It's still a great mud, I just can't handle it anymore. On 2/21/2023 4:38 AM, Lindsay Cowell wrote:Hi I feel like creating a character on a mud that is easy to follow. I know how to move around in a mud, but I don’t want anything too complicated, as a lot of them don’t have sound packs. Lindsay Cowell






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Re: [blind-gamers] Muds

[Travis Siegel]

Yeah, I do that too.  I usually modify the prompt to only give my 
current hit points, but sometimes, I even leave that out if the mud has 
another method to check hitpoints (usually by typing hp), so every now 
and then, I'll have my prompt simply as a single greater than sign.  
That allows the speech to say something (if the proper punctuation level 
is set), and the mud won't spam me with unnecessary content, especially 
during battles.


In that case, I'd say you want muds that have screen reader modes, or 
blind friendly prompts, or prompts that can be made screen reader 
friendly.  That's most muds if you're talking about changing the prompt 
yourself, but if you want a screen reader friendly interface, the list 
gets quite a bit smaller.  I know 3k, 3scapes, lostsouls, alter aeon 
(and alter aeon's experimental space related mud) all have screen reader 
modes.  There are other muds I've played over the years that had them 
too, but I generally don't keep track of them once I leave the mud, I 
only remember lostsouls had one, because I played there so long.


What kind of mud environment are you looking for?

3k has fantasy, science and chaos areas (thus the 3k moniker), As 
mentioned, lostsouls is a mud with loads of different guilds and races 
to play, that was it's main draw for me, especially since you could have 
multiple characters there, (just not more than one at a time logged in), 
and of course, alter aeon is about as blind and newbie friendly as a mud 
gets, so it's all dependent on what you're hunting for.  If you check 
out the mud connector (https://www/mudconnect.com), you can find a wide 
variety of muds, and you can usually search their list too, though I've 
not had much luck finding what I want that way.


Hope this helps


On 2/21/2023 1:31 PM, Lindsay Cowell wrote:


Any mud will do, just need to be able to customize things like the 
prompt. I hate it when Jaws is coming out with random words and numbers.


*From:*blind-gamers@groups.io  *On Behalf Of 
*Travis Siegel

*Sent:* 21 February 2023 14:10
*To:* blind-gamers@groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [blind-gamers] Muds

There aren't many muds with sound packs, mostly because nobody has 
taken the time to create one.


If you're working on strictly soundpack muds, alter aeon is your best bet.

If you want something with lots of newbie helpers, and one that has 
lots and lots to do, then try 3k.org.  It also has a sister mud at 
3scapes.org if you like the one, you'll probably like the other one, 
since they share many of the same features.


I also log into ancient anguish from time to time, just because it's 
been around since the 90s, and I used to play on it back then, so I 
still pop in every now and then just to see what's going on. 
Occasionally I'll play for a few months, then bow out again for months 
to years at a time, but I do tend to drop by again afterwords just to 
see what changed.


If you're looking for a huge gaming area, and loads and loads of races 
to choose from, then lostsouls.org is probably the one you want, 
though I stopped playing there years ago when they expanded the mud to 
something like three times it's original size, and their navigation 
went out the window.  It's probably considerably easier for someone 
who never played under the old system, but I quit playing when I 
couldn't find anything anymore, and discovered that their expansion 
didn't account for things like roads that just ended in the middle of 
nowhere, and then you'd find little settlements scattered all over the 
plains with absolutely markings to help find your way back to it.


Which, honestly, was a real shame, because I'd played on that mud for 
nearly 20 years before leaving that one after those impossible (for 
me) changes.  It's still a great mud, I just can't handle it anymore.


On 2/21/2023 4:38 AM, Lindsay Cowell wrote:

Hi

I feel like creating a character on a mud that is easy to follow.
I know how to move around in a mud, but I don’t want anything too
complicated, as a lot of them don’t have sound packs.

Lindsay Cowell





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Re: [blind-gamers] Muds

[john]

Definitely give Alter Aeon a try: alteraeon.com. Look for the mush-z 
download link.


On 2/21/2023 13:31, Lindsay Cowell wrote:

Any mud will do, just need to be able to customize things like the 
prompt. I hate it when Jaws is coming out with random words and numbers.


*From:*blind-gamers@groups.io  *On Behalf Of 
*Travis Siegel

*Sent:* 21 February 2023 14:10
*To:* blind-gamers@groups.io
*Subject:* Re: [blind-gamers] Muds

There aren't many muds with sound packs, mostly because nobody has taken 
the time to create one.


If you're working on strictly soundpack muds, alter aeon is your best bet.

If you want something with lots of newbie helpers, and one that has lots 
and lots to do, then try 3k.org.  It also has a sister mud at 
3scapes.org if you like the one, you'll probably like the other one, 
since they share many of the same features.


I also log into ancient anguish from time to time, just because it's 
been around since the 90s, and I used to play on it back then, so I 
still pop in every now and then just to see what's going on. 
Occasionally I'll play for a few months, then bow out again for months 
to years at a time, but I do tend to drop by again afterwords just to 
see what changed.


If you're looking for a huge gaming area, and loads and loads of races 
to choose from, then lostsouls.org is probably the one you want, though 
I stopped playing there years ago when they expanded the mud to 
something like three times it's original size, and their navigation went 
out the window.  It's probably considerably easier for someone who never 
played under the old system, but I quit playing when I couldn't find 
anything anymore, and discovered that their expansion didn't account for 
things like roads that just ended in the middle of nowhere, and then 
you'd find little settlements scattered all over the plains with 
absolutely markings to help find your way back to it.


Which, honestly, was a real shame, because I'd played on that mud for 
nearly 20 years before leaving that one after those impossible (for me) 
changes.  It's still a great mud, I just can't handle it anymore.


On 2/21/2023 4:38 AM, Lindsay Cowell wrote:

   Hi

   I feel like creating a character on a mud that is easy to follow. I
   know how to move around in a mud, but I don’t want anything too
   complicated, as a lot of them don’t have sound packs.

   Lindsay Cowell



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Re: [blind-gamers] Muds

[Jude DaShiell]

There is also end of time and that has a sound pack.



Jude  "There are four boxes to be used in
defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)

.



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Re: [blind-gamers] Muds

[Oriol Gómez]

you should play alter aeon. Have you tried it before?
www.alteraeon.com

On 2/21/23, Lindsay Cowell  wrote:
> Any mud will do, just need to be able to customize things like the prompt. I
> hate it when Jaws is coming out with random words and numbers.
>
>
>
>
>
> From: blind-gamers@groups.io  On Behalf Of Travis
> Siegel
> Sent: 21 February 2023 14:10
> To: blind-gamers@groups.io
> Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] Muds
>
>
>
> There aren't many muds with sound packs, mostly because nobody has taken the
> time to create one.
>
> If you're working on strictly soundpack muds, alter aeon is your best bet.
>
> If you want something with lots of newbie helpers, and one that has lots and
> lots to do, then try 3k.org.  It also has a sister mud at 3scapes.org if you
> like the one, you'll probably like the other one, since they share many of
> the same features.
>
> I also log into ancient anguish from time to time, just because it's been
> around since the 90s, and I used to play on it back then, so I still pop in
> every now and then just to see what's going on. Occasionally I'll play for a
> few months, then bow out again for months to years at a time, but I do tend
> to drop by again afterwords just to see what changed.
>
> If you're looking for a huge gaming area, and loads and loads of races to
> choose from, then lostsouls.org is probably the one you want, though I
> stopped playing there years ago when they expanded the mud to something like
> three times it's original size, and their navigation went out the window.
> It's probably considerably easier for someone who never played under the old
> system, but I quit playing when I couldn't find anything anymore, and
> discovered that their expansion didn't account for things like roads that
> just ended in the middle of nowhere, and then you'd find little settlements
> scattered all over the plains with absolutely markings to help find your way
> back to it.
>
> Which, honestly, was a real shame, because I'd played on that mud for nearly
> 20 years before leaving that one after those impossible (for me) changes.
> It's still a great mud, I just can't handle it anymore.
>
>
>
> On 2/21/2023 4:38 AM, Lindsay Cowell wrote:
>
> Hi
>
>
>
> I feel like creating a character on a mud that is easy to follow. I know how
> to move around in a mud, but I don’t want anything too complicated, as a lot
> of them don’t have sound packs.
>
>
>
> Lindsay Cowell
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>


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Re: [blind-gamers] Muds

[Lindsay Cowell]

Any mud will do, just need to be able to customize things like the prompt. I 
hate it when Jaws is coming out with random words and numbers.

 

 

From: blind-gamers@groups.io  On Behalf Of Travis Siegel
Sent: 21 February 2023 14:10
To: blind-gamers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] Muds

 

There aren't many muds with sound packs, mostly because nobody has taken the 
time to create one.

If you're working on strictly soundpack muds, alter aeon is your best bet.

If you want something with lots of newbie helpers, and one that has lots and 
lots to do, then try 3k.org.  It also has a sister mud at 3scapes.org if you 
like the one, you'll probably like the other one, since they share many of the 
same features.

I also log into ancient anguish from time to time, just because it's been 
around since the 90s, and I used to play on it back then, so I still pop in 
every now and then just to see what's going on. Occasionally I'll play for a 
few months, then bow out again for months to years at a time, but I do tend to 
drop by again afterwords just to see what changed.

If you're looking for a huge gaming area, and loads and loads of races to 
choose from, then lostsouls.org is probably the one you want, though I stopped 
playing there years ago when they expanded the mud to something like three 
times it's original size, and their navigation went out the window.  It's 
probably considerably easier for someone who never played under the old system, 
but I quit playing when I couldn't find anything anymore, and discovered that 
their expansion didn't account for things like roads that just ended in the 
middle of nowhere, and then you'd find little settlements scattered all over 
the plains with absolutely markings to help find your way back to it.

Which, honestly, was a real shame, because I'd played on that mud for nearly 20 
years before leaving that one after those impossible (for me) changes.  It's 
still a great mud, I just can't handle it anymore.

 

On 2/21/2023 4:38 AM, Lindsay Cowell wrote:

Hi

 

I feel like creating a character on a mud that is easy to follow. I know how to 
move around in a mud, but I don’t want anything too complicated, as a lot of 
them don’t have sound packs.

 

Lindsay Cowell





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Re: [blind-gamers] Muds

[Travis Siegel]

There aren't many muds with sound packs, mostly because nobody has taken 
the time to create one.


If you're working on strictly soundpack muds, alter aeon is your best bet.

If you want something with lots of newbie helpers, and one that has lots 
and lots to do, then try 3k.org.  It also has a sister mud at 
3scapes.org if you like the one, you'll probably like the other one, 
since they share many of the same features.


I also log into ancient anguish from time to time, just because it's 
been around since the 90s, and I used to play on it back then, so I 
still pop in every now and then just to see what's going on. 
Occasionally I'll play for a few months, then bow out again for months 
to years at a time, but I do tend to drop by again afterwords just to 
see what changed.


If you're looking for a huge gaming area, and loads and loads of races 
to choose from, then lostsouls.org is probably the one you want, though 
I stopped playing there years ago when they expanded the mud to 
something like three times it's original size, and their navigation went 
out the window.  It's probably considerably easier for someone who never 
played under the old system, but I quit playing when I couldn't find 
anything anymore, and discovered that their expansion didn't account for 
things like roads that just ended in the middle of nowhere, and then 
you'd find little settlements scattered all over the plains with 
absolutely markings to help find your way back to it.


Which, honestly, was a real shame, because I'd played on that mud for 
nearly 20 years before leaving that one after those impossible (for me) 
changes.  It's still a great mud, I just can't handle it anymore.



On 2/21/2023 4:38 AM, Lindsay Cowell wrote:


Hi

I feel like creating a character on a mud that is easy to follow. I 
know how to move around in a mud, but I don’t want anything too 
complicated, as a lot of them don’t have sound packs.


Lindsay Cowell





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Re: [blind-gamers] Muds

[Oriol Gómez]

Alter aeon! Have you tried it? I haven't played in months but my
character should still be there.

On 2/21/23, Lindsay Cowell  wrote:
> Hi
>
>
>
> I feel like creating a character on a mud that is easy to follow. I know
> how
> to move around in a mud, but I don't want anything too complicated, as a
> lot
> of them don't have sound packs.
>
>
>
> Lindsay Cowell
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>


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Re: [blind-gamers] muds and graphical maps

[Jude DaShiell]

Likely for compound directions n/ could be northwest and n* could be
northeast and s/ could be southwest and s* could be southeast.  That way
these extra characters don't get confused with the hyphens between
direction groups.



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Re: [blind-gamers] muds and graphical maps

[Jude DaShiell]

When I can get useable directions for a route I record the directions in
braille in groups of 4 with hyphens between the groups.  That way once I
do a group I can mentally check it off and find the next group quickly on
the braille paper.  The strategy is like the way Microsoft has windows
activation keys written down. For those that don't use braille, this will
be useless.


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Re: [blind-gamers] MUDs

[dark]

Hi. 

Alter does have keys to move and other things, and of course with the amounts 
of sounds and such it’s virtually an audiogame in it’s own right and is thus 
highly worth a go. 
However, bare in mind most muds don’t work like your traditional interactive 
fiction game. 
For example, instead of  typing out the directions to move, you can usually 
just  n s e w. 
You don’t have to type out full commands like open box with key, op bo key (or 
in some games op bo with key), will usually do. 

In some muds you can even use numbers instead, eg in one mud I know for  
equipping items you just look in your inventory where each item has a number by 
hitting I, and if  sword were in slot 12 and so instead of typing out “ready 
sword” or something like that you could just type eq 12. 

It’s actually one of the things I like about muds, that the typing is far 
easier than in traditional if, which also usually means less of those annoying 
“guess the syntax” type of puzzles. 

Hth. 

All the best, 

Dark.
 

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

From: Paul Lemm
Sent: 08 December 2017 22:48
To: blind-gamers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] MUDs

Hi Damien ,

You mentioned about not being able to use things like cursor keys to move about 
in Muds, but I believe in alter if you are using the Mush client that pressing 
the cursor keys will actually move you about rather than having to type the 
commands to move. I have to confess to not really playing a lot of muds for 
similar reasons to you as not keen on typing lots of text to play a game, but I 
have tried alter with mush-Z and it does seem a lot of work has been put in 
with hot keys for certain things and with all the built in sounds  it does make 
it seem less like a text adventure and slightly more like an audio game. when 
you do get mush-Z working though, the intro to alter has a mini storyline that 
talks you through some of the basic commands and is really helpful, plus there 
is a read me file  that comes with mush-z and this has a lot of helpful info if 
you haven’t played before  along with some of the mush-z hot keys you can use 
in alter that will help. Actually, at some point when I have more time on my 
hands I do mean to go take another look at alter myself

Paul


From: blind-gamers@groups.io [mailto:blind-gamers@groups.io] On Behalf Of john
Sent: 06 December 2017 12:00
To: blind-gamers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] MUDs

Hi Damien,
There's a lot to cover here, so I'll try to answer a few of your questions and 
see where to go from there.
Muds are, yes, somewhat similar to text adventures. In this case though, 
there's no "guess the verb" issue, since you can type help  and get a 
description of what it does.
On alter Aeon, you play as a combination of the six classes, picking one to be 
your primary. Which class you choose will determine what style of character you 
end up with - a mage is going to have a lot of offensive spells but not a lot 
of health, whereas a warrior will focus on physical skills and be more sturdy. 
You can apply a bit of Dungeons and Dragons-esc logic to your choice, if you're 
familiar with that.
As for the connection bit, its worth pointing out that this is not an 
audiogame. Its purely text-based. Muds, in their simplest form, are telnet 
applications. The reason people recommend mush-z is because MushClient, the 
program that runs it, is a really, really powerful telnet client. Its where 
most of the work happens: processing the text you receive from the mud and 
acting on it, for example to play a sound or tell you that you're injured.
If you're running on windows 10, it'd probably be worthwhile for you to install 
mush-z to your documents folder, rather than program files. This may resolve 
some of the technical difficulties.
I know this hasn't covered all your questions, so let me know what else you 
need to know, and I'll see if I can help you get up and running.
 
Best,
John

From: Damien Sykes 
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 21:39
To: blind-gamers@groups.io 
Subject: [blind-gamers] MUDs

Hi there.
You know, I wasn’t sure if Alter Aeon was discussed on here much any more. 
Given that updates are still posted here that sends me a clear message that it 
is still popular.
I have been hesitant to try MUDs for a while due to the fact that I always knew 
them to be mainly textual, leading to a lot of confusion and frustration for 
beginners of the text gaming world, and a slight sense of anticlimax for those 
more used to real-time gaming such as myself.
However I was recently informed that MUDs have now become more than just the 
traditional text adventure style game and can now include audio, action hotkeys 
etc, like any other audio game might.
To that end, I have been recommended to, and trying to get into, AA. However so 
far I have found the whole concept confusing and almost advanced.
I know something like Crazy Party is no comparison to something like AA, but 
this is how clueless I am in that

Re: [blind-gamers] MUDs

[Richard Sherman]

HI,

been playing alter for almost 5 years now. I use mush z for my client. you 
can use both the cursor keys and the numpad to move. The 0 key will make you 
sleep. the period key is to cast refresh if you know the spell. the minus 
and plus keys make you climb up and down respectively. also the numbpad can 
be reconfigured any way you deem fit for your likings.

As for alter, a really good suggestion is to read the alter website. It goes 
into good detail as to what each class does. covers their strengths and 
weaknesses. As well as what skills and spell are in their class tree.

Once you create a character on alter a fairly well devised entrance way 
awaits you. Each one specific to that class on what initially you should 
know to get you started. There will be newbie tips that pop up from time to 
time to tell you helpful hints. You can also ask for assistance on the 
newbie channel.

I have only ever played one mudd, alter aeon. And I can safely say that no 
mudd is perfect. But many would agree that mush z does make a world of 
difference playing alter than not using it and playing other mudds.

not exactly sure why mush z is not installing correctly on your system. Hope 
you get that figured out. Happy Mudding.

Shermanator
- Original Message - 
From: Paul Lemm
Sent: Friday, December 08, 2017 3:48 PM


Hi Damien ,

You mentioned about not being able to use things like cursor keys to move 
about in Muds, but I believe in alter if you are using the Mush client that 
pressing the cursor keys will actually move you about rather than having to 
type the commands to move. I have to confess to not really playing a lot of 
muds for similar reasons to you as not keen on typing lots of text to play a 
game, but I have tried alter with mush-Z and it does seem a lot of work has 
been put in with hot keys for certain things and with all the built in 
sounds  it does make it seem less like a text adventure and slightly more 
like an audio game. when you do get mush-Z working though, the intro to 
alter has a mini storyline that talks you through some of the basic commands 
and is really helpful, plus there is a read me file  that comes with mush-z 
and this has a lot of helpful info if you haven’t played before  along with 
some of the mush-z hot keys you can use in alter that will help. Actually, 
at some point when I have more time on my hands I do mean to go take another 
look at alter myself

Paul


From: blind-gamers@groups.io [mailto:blind-gamers@groups.io] On Behalf Of 
john
Sent: 06 December 2017 12:00


Hi Damien,
There's a lot to cover here, so I'll try to answer a few of your questions 
and see where to go from there.
Muds are, yes, somewhat similar to text adventures. In this case though, 
there's no "guess the verb" issue, since you can type help  and get 
a description of what it does.
On alter Aeon, you play as a combination of the six classes, picking one to 
be your primary. Which class you choose will determine what style of 
character you end up with - a mage is going to have a lot of offensive 
spells but not a lot of health, whereas a warrior will focus on physical 
skills and be more sturdy. You can apply a bit of Dungeons and Dragons-esc 
logic to your choice, if you're familiar with that.
As for the connection bit, its worth pointing out that this is not an 
audiogame. Its purely text-based. Muds, in their simplest form, are telnet 
applications. The reason people recommend mush-z is because MushClient, the 
program that runs it, is a really, really powerful telnet client. Its where 
most of the work happens: processing the text you receive from the mud and 
acting on it, for example to play a sound or tell you that you're injured.
If you're running on windows 10, it'd probably be worthwhile for you to 
install mush-z to your documents folder, rather than program files. This may 
resolve some of the technical difficulties.
I know this hasn't covered all your questions, so let me know what else you 
need to know, and I'll see if I can help you get up and running.

Best,
John 


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-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Re: [blind-gamers] MUDs

[Paul Lemm]

Hi Damien ,

 

You mentioned about not being able to use things like cursor keys to move about 
in Muds, but I believe in alter if you are using the Mush client that pressing 
the cursor keys will actually move you about rather than having to type the 
commands to move. I have to confess to not really playing a lot of muds for 
similar reasons to you as not keen on typing lots of text to play a game, but I 
have tried alter with mush-Z and it does seem a lot of work has been put in 
with hot keys for certain things and with all the built in sounds  it does make 
it seem less like a text adventure and slightly more like an audio game. when 
you do get mush-Z working though, the intro to alter has a mini storyline that 
talks you through some of the basic commands and is really helpful, plus there 
is a read me file  that comes with mush-z and this has a lot of helpful info if 
you haven’t played before  along with some of the mush-z hot keys you can use 
in alter that will help. Actually, at some point when I have more time on my 
hands I do mean to go take another look at alter myself

 

Paul

 

 

From: blind-gamers@groups.io [mailto:blind-gamers@groups.io] On Behalf Of john
Sent: 06 December 2017 12:00
To: blind-gamers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] MUDs

 

Hi Damien,

There's a lot to cover here, so I'll try to answer a few of your questions and 
see where to go from there.

Muds are, yes, somewhat similar to text adventures. In this case though, 
there's no "guess the verb" issue, since you can type help  and get a 
description of what it does.

On alter Aeon, you play as a combination of the six classes, picking one to be 
your primary. Which class you choose will determine what style of character you 
end up with - a mage is going to have a lot of offensive spells but not a lot 
of health, whereas a warrior will focus on physical skills and be more sturdy. 
You can apply a bit of Dungeons and Dragons-esc logic to your choice, if you're 
familiar with that.

As for the connection bit, its worth pointing out that this is not an 
audiogame. Its purely text-based. Muds, in their simplest form, are telnet 
applications. The reason people recommend mush-z is because MushClient, the 
program that runs it, is a really, really powerful telnet client. Its where 
most of the work happens: processing the text you receive from the mud and 
acting on it, for example to play a sound or tell you that you're injured.

If you're running on windows 10, it'd probably be worthwhile for you to install 
mush-z to your documents folder, rather than program files. This may resolve 
some of the technical difficulties.

I know this hasn't covered all your questions, so let me know what else you 
need to know, and I'll see if I can help you get up and running.

 

Best,

John

 

From: Damien Sykes <mailto:dam...@dcpendleton.plus.com>

Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 21:39

To: blind-gamers@groups.io 

Subject: [blind-gamers] MUDs

 

Hi there.

You know, I wasn’t sure if Alter Aeon was discussed on here much any more. 
Given that updates are still posted here that sends me a clear message that it 
is still popular.

I have been hesitant to try MUDs for a while due to the fact that I always knew 
them to be mainly textual, leading to a lot of confusion and frustration for 
beginners of the text gaming world, and a slight sense of anticlimax for those 
more used to real-time gaming such as myself.

However I was recently informed that MUDs have now become more than just the 
traditional text adventure style game and can now include audio, action hotkeys 
etc, like any other audio game might.

To that end, I have been recommended to, and trying to get into, AA. However so 
far I have found the whole concept confusing and almost advanced.

I know something like Crazy Party is no comparison to something like AA, but 
this is how clueless I am in that I’ll have to use it to try and conceptualise 
things in my head, as it is the closest thing I’m aware of.

 

1. To connect to a Crazy Party server you use Crazy Party and wait for players 
to connect. With AA, it seems there are various applications that will support 
it and there are people there all the time. Is this because AA is centrally 
rather than individually hosted? What are people doing and what would I be 
expected to do? Last thing I want is to find myself logged in, clueless as to 
what to do and have someone say, “what are you doing just sat there?” or even 
worse getting killed.

2. In Crazy Party you simply choose a username and host a server or choose one 
to connect to. AA seems to want character types, skill levels etc, which goes 
way over my head. Seems like AA is taking real life concepts like priests and 
crafters and fighters and the like, none of which I’m good at in real 
life...Are these just game related? What is expected from each profession and 
how do you learn it? Is this specific to AA or are all MUDs like this?

3. De

Re: [blind-gamers] MUDs

[valiant8086]

Hi.


Think of your mud client, that would be mush z in your case, could be 
gMud, zMud, monkey term, vip mud, tintin, wintin, telnet, hyper 
terminal, putty, and a whole host of other ones, as sort of the web 
browser. When you go to a web page, you connect to a central server that 
serves up the content to your web browser, this is more or less the same 
concept. Once you get a client actually working, you'll connect to the 
mud in question, create a character and start learning to play. Alter 
Aeon for instance has a really big newbie area with lots of pretty safe 
things to do, if you get stuck you can ask newbie questions on the 
newbie channel by typing something like newbie can anybody tell me where 
this staff I'm supposed to be finding can be found? and hit enter.



As per your surrounding characters, most of them are non player 
characters (npcs), also known as mobiles or mobs for short. Computer 
controlled characters that gives you quests, sell you things, try to 
kill you, etc. The rest are player characters or (pcs) players just like 
you. On average Alter aeon has more than 60 players on at any given 
time. It is possible to complete against other players trying to kill 
them, but unless you enter the player killing arena using the specific 
command or turn on the temporary pk ok player killing is ok flag for 
your character, you're safe from being killed by other players. You'll 
probably find muds especially popular ones to be an unexpectedly vibrant 
and lively community. Think of a big game, now make it about 5 times 
bigger than that and then wonder if that's even big enough. Alter aeon 
for instance is freeking huge. We're talking thousands and thousands of 
rooms. We're talking I've been playing for about 13 years and there's a 
lot I don't know about. It's a whole new world that basically provides 
endless replay ability not just better replayability. If you've been 
playing as long as me sometimes you tend to just want to use it for a 
social platform, just log on and say hi to your very real friends that 
you've made on there through the years and the like, but I do still gain 
levels every now and then.



Once you work out your mud client difficulties and log in and have a 
setup where the mud is making your screen reader speak automatically and 
the like, the rest is likely smooth sailing. The help files, 
descriptions on areas and quest descriptions  gets you most of the way 
to knowing enough about what you're doing, and there's no problem asking 
other players via the newbie channel for instance how to do something. 
Every  popular mud has its fare share of buttheads who cause more 
trouble than they help, but for the most part everyone will be friendly 
and happy to help where they can.







Cheers:
Aaron Spears, A.K.A. valiant8086. General Partner - Valiant Galaxy Associates "We 
make Very Good Audiogames for the blind community - http://valiantGalaxy.com;



On 12/6/2017 3:01 PM, Damien Sykes wrote:

Hi,
UAC is disabled. When I installed MushZ, it ran two installers, one 
which wasn’t even relevant to me (JAWS scripts I believe), then it ran 
some kind of updater program. Then when I launch it, I get such as the 
following:

Run-time error
Plugin: AlterAeon (called from world: alter aeon)
Function/Sub: OnPluginInstall called by Plugin AlterAeon
Reason: Executing plugin AlterAeon sub OnPluginInstall
[string "Plugin"]:3178: attempt to index field '?' (a nil value)
stack traceback:
    [string "Plugin"]:3178: in function 'recastdefault_single_spell'
    [string "Plugin"]:3227: in function 'recastdefaults'
    [string "Plugin"]:2997: in function 'sanity_check_recast_vars'
    [string "Plugin"]:6585: in function <[string "Plugin"]:6530>
Error context in script:
3174 :   return t2
3175 : end
3176 :
3177 : function recastdefault_single_spell(setname, spellname)
3178*:   if recast[setname][spellname] == nil then
3179 : recast[setname][spellname]=false
3180 :   end
3181 : end
3182 :
Cannot open error log file: .\logs\script_error_log.txt
WARNING - referencing uninitialized config variable 'randomambience'.
WARNING - referencing uninitialized config variable 'enterinterrupt'.
WARNING - referencing uninitialized config variable 'tts'.
I got no errors during installation to say that files couldn’t be written.
Cheers.
Damien.
*From:* john <mailto:jpcarnemo...@gmail.com>
*Sent:* Wednesday, December 06, 2017 7:08 PM
*To:* blind-gamers@groups.io <mailto:blind-gamers@groups.io>
*Subject:* Re: [blind-gamers] MUDs

Hi Damien,

Alright, let's take this from the top.

Your class (or class structure, in AA) is sort of like professions or 
skills in real life. You can be a mage - an academic magic user with a 
lot of elemental power (think fireballs, lightning bolts, etc), you 
can be a warrior (think big, burly person with a giant axe or sword), 
a necromancer (think your own 

Re: [blind-gamers] MUDs

[john]

Hi Damien,
Those are some pretty ugly errors.
I'm not up-to-date on the mush-z code, but maybe somebody else on the list can 
help track down the bugs.

Best,
John


From: Damien Sykes 
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 15:01
To: blind-gamers@groups.io 
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] MUDs


Hi,
UAC is disabled. When I installed MushZ, it ran two installers, one which 
wasn’t even relevant to me (JAWS scripts I believe), then it ran some kind of 
updater program. Then when I launch it, I get such as the following:
Run-time error
Plugin: AlterAeon (called from world: alter aeon)
Function/Sub: OnPluginInstall called by Plugin AlterAeon
Reason: Executing plugin AlterAeon sub OnPluginInstall
[string "Plugin"]:3178: attempt to index field '?' (a nil value)
stack traceback:
[string "Plugin"]:3178: in function 'recastdefault_single_spell'
[string "Plugin"]:3227: in function 'recastdefaults'
[string "Plugin"]:2997: in function 'sanity_check_recast_vars'
[string "Plugin"]:6585: in function <[string "Plugin"]:6530>
Error context in script:
3174 :   return t2
3175 : end
3176 : 
3177 : function recastdefault_single_spell(setname, spellname)
3178*:   if recast[setname][spellname] == nil then
3179 : recast[setname][spellname]=false
3180 :   end
3181 : end
3182 : 
Cannot open error log file: .\logs\script_error_log.txt

WARNING - referencing uninitialized config variable 'randomambience'.
WARNING - referencing uninitialized config variable 'enterinterrupt'.
WARNING - referencing uninitialized config variable 'tts'.

I got no errors during installation to say that files couldn’t be written.
Cheers.
Damien.


From: john 
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 7:08 PM
To: blind-gamers@groups.io 
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] MUDs

Hi Damien,

Alright, let's take this from the top.

Your class (or class structure, in AA) is sort of like professions or skills in 
real life. You can be a mage - an academic magic user with a lot of elemental 
power (think fireballs, lightning bolts, etc), you can be a warrior (think big, 
burly person with a giant axe or sword), a necromancer (think your own personal 
army of undead) among others. Your proficiency in each of the six classes is 
determined by your level, so a high level warrior will be really good at 
bashing things to pieces, but maybe not so at throwing fireballs. Which class 
you choose will be determined by what kind of character you fancy yourself as.

The person you spoke too was only partially correct. At its core, a mud is a 
terminal connection to a server, but instead of sending OS commands you're 
saying what you want your character to do in-game. There are some very, very 
advanced telnet clients, though. They support aliases (similar to bash), 
triggers (doing something such as playing a sound when a certain line of text 
arrives) and even scripting. Mushclient in particular comes bundled with Lua, 
so anything you can do in that language you can do with the client, plus 
additional features. Thus, we have something like:

You type:

>c fir ant

(this expands out to "cast fireball ant" after server-side processing)

You see:

You conjure and throw a bright yellow fireball at A tiny black ant!

Because of Mushclient's features, there's a whole bunch of sounds for offensive 
spells. Thus, you hear your character yell a challenge to the left, and then 
the explosion of your fireball obliterating the ant.



The concern with the documents folder is UAC; if you have it disabled, then 
you're good to go. The program needs to be able to write to its installation 
directory.



My advice to you would be to re-download the program (mush-z.com), uninstall 
your current copy completely, install the new one and just try playing. There 
should be no errors out of the box.

Alter Aeon has a really, really good introductory setup, and the help system is 
exceptional.



I hope this clarified some of the confusion.



Best,

John


From: Damien Sykes 
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 11:37
To: blind-gamers@groups.io 
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] MUDs

Hi John,
Nope, I’m not familiar with Dungeons and Dragons. I’ve heard of it but never 
played it. So in essence, the classes (are those the character types?) deal 
with stats rather than game play?
Yes, I did think that MUDs (or Muds?) were text-based, but someone told me that 
they have become more advanced and can provide the realism that an audio game 
could. You yourself mentioned sounds...How does this work if it is still purely 
text based?
Telnet: I thought that was for commanding operating systems, a bit like SSH? So 
let me get this straight...Alter Aeon is built on Telnet, connected to by 
MushZ, built on MushClient? Sounds like it could be part of a never ending 
chain to me.
I don’t run Windows 10, I’m on 7. However it did want to install to the 
documents folder. I never ever use that folder, and it’s not exactly 

Re: [blind-gamers] MUDs

[Damien Sykes]

Hi,
UAC is disabled. When I installed MushZ, it ran two installers, one which 
wasn’t even relevant to me (JAWS scripts I believe), then it ran some kind of 
updater program. Then when I launch it, I get such as the following:
Run-time error
Plugin: AlterAeon (called from world: alter aeon)
Function/Sub: OnPluginInstall called by Plugin AlterAeon
Reason: Executing plugin AlterAeon sub OnPluginInstall
[string "Plugin"]:3178: attempt to index field '?' (a nil value)
stack traceback:
[string "Plugin"]:3178: in function 'recastdefault_single_spell'
[string "Plugin"]:3227: in function 'recastdefaults'
[string "Plugin"]:2997: in function 'sanity_check_recast_vars'
[string "Plugin"]:6585: in function <[string "Plugin"]:6530>
Error context in script:
3174 :   return t2
3175 : end
3176 : 
3177 : function recastdefault_single_spell(setname, spellname)
3178*:   if recast[setname][spellname] == nil then
3179 : recast[setname][spellname]=false
3180 :   end
3181 : end
3182 : 
Cannot open error log file: .\logs\script_error_log.txt

WARNING - referencing uninitialized config variable 'randomambience'.
WARNING - referencing uninitialized config variable 'enterinterrupt'.
WARNING - referencing uninitialized config variable 'tts'.

I got no errors during installation to say that files couldn’t be written.
Cheers.
Damien.


From: john 
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 7:08 PM
To: blind-gamers@groups.io 
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] MUDs

Hi Damien,

Alright, let's take this from the top.

Your class (or class structure, in AA) is sort of like professions or skills in 
real life. You can be a mage - an academic magic user with a lot of elemental 
power (think fireballs, lightning bolts, etc), you can be a warrior (think big, 
burly person with a giant axe or sword), a necromancer (think your own personal 
army of undead) among others. Your proficiency in each of the six classes is 
determined by your level, so a high level warrior will be really good at 
bashing things to pieces, but maybe not so at throwing fireballs. Which class 
you choose will be determined by what kind of character you fancy yourself as.

The person you spoke too was only partially correct. At its core, a mud is a 
terminal connection to a server, but instead of sending OS commands you're 
saying what you want your character to do in-game. There are some very, very 
advanced telnet clients, though. They support aliases (similar to bash), 
triggers (doing something such as playing a sound when a certain line of text 
arrives) and even scripting. Mushclient in particular comes bundled with Lua, 
so anything you can do in that language you can do with the client, plus 
additional features. Thus, we have something like:

You type:

>c fir ant

(this expands out to "cast fireball ant" after server-side processing)

You see:

You conjure and throw a bright yellow fireball at A tiny black ant!

Because of Mushclient's features, there's a whole bunch of sounds for offensive 
spells. Thus, you hear your character yell a challenge to the left, and then 
the explosion of your fireball obliterating the ant.



The concern with the documents folder is UAC; if you have it disabled, then 
you're good to go. The program needs to be able to write to its installation 
directory.



My advice to you would be to re-download the program (mush-z.com), uninstall 
your current copy completely, install the new one and just try playing. There 
should be no errors out of the box.

Alter Aeon has a really, really good introductory setup, and the help system is 
exceptional.



I hope this clarified some of the confusion.



Best,

John


From: Damien Sykes 
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 11:37
To: blind-gamers@groups.io 
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] MUDs

Hi John,
Nope, I’m not familiar with Dungeons and Dragons. I’ve heard of it but never 
played it. So in essence, the classes (are those the character types?) deal 
with stats rather than game play?
Yes, I did think that MUDs (or Muds?) were text-based, but someone told me that 
they have become more advanced and can provide the realism that an audio game 
could. You yourself mentioned sounds...How does this work if it is still purely 
text based?
Telnet: I thought that was for commanding operating systems, a bit like SSH? So 
let me get this straight...Alter Aeon is built on Telnet, connected to by 
MushZ, built on MushClient? Sounds like it could be part of a never ending 
chain to me.
I don’t run Windows 10, I’m on 7. However it did want to install to the 
documents folder. I never ever use that folder, and it’s not exactly a 
conventional place to install something. To me, that’d be like saying a user 
application should be installed in windows/system32. The first place I look 
when I want to use a program is Program Files (I know I know, call me nerdy, 
but I don’t use shortcuts either. Bite me. Lol). Is 

Re: [blind-gamers] MUDs

[john]

Hi Damien,

Alright, let's take this from the top.

Your class (or class structure, in AA) is sort of like professions or skills in 
real life. You can be a mage - an academic magic user with a lot of elemental 
power (think fireballs, lightning bolts, etc), you can be a warrior (think big, 
burly person with a giant axe or sword), a necromancer (think your own personal 
army of undead) among others. Your proficiency in each of the six classes is 
determined by your level, so a high level warrior will be really good at 
bashing things to pieces, but maybe not so at throwing fireballs. Which class 
you choose will be determined by what kind of character you fancy yourself as.

The person you spoke too was only partially correct. At its core, a mud is a 
terminal connection to a server, but instead of sending OS commands you're 
saying what you want your character to do in-game. There are some very, very 
advanced telnet clients, though. They support aliases (similar to bash), 
triggers (doing something such as playing a sound when a certain line of text 
arrives) and even scripting. Mushclient in particular comes bundled with Lua, 
so anything you can do in that language you can do with the client, plus 
additional features. Thus, we have something like:

You type:

>c fir ant

(this expands out to "cast fireball ant" after server-side processing)

You see:

You conjure and throw a bright yellow fireball at A tiny black ant!

Because of Mushclient's features, there's a whole bunch of sounds for offensive 
spells. Thus, you hear your character yell a challenge to the left, and then 
the explosion of your fireball obliterating the ant.



The concern with the documents folder is UAC; if you have it disabled, then 
you're good to go. The program needs to be able to write to its installation 
directory.



My advice to you would be to re-download the program (mush-z.com), uninstall 
your current copy completely, install the new one and just try playing. There 
should be no errors out of the box.

Alter Aeon has a really, really good introductory setup, and the help system is 
exceptional.



I hope this clarified some of the confusion.



Best,

John



From: Damien Sykes 
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 11:37
To: blind-gamers@groups.io 
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] MUDs


Hi John,
Nope, I’m not familiar with Dungeons and Dragons. I’ve heard of it but never 
played it. So in essence, the classes (are those the character types?) deal 
with stats rather than game play?
Yes, I did think that MUDs (or Muds?) were text-based, but someone told me that 
they have become more advanced and can provide the realism that an audio game 
could. You yourself mentioned sounds...How does this work if it is still purely 
text based?
Telnet: I thought that was for commanding operating systems, a bit like SSH? So 
let me get this straight...Alter Aeon is built on Telnet, connected to by 
MushZ, built on MushClient? Sounds like it could be part of a never ending 
chain to me.
I don’t run Windows 10, I’m on 7. However it did want to install to the 
documents folder. I never ever use that folder, and it’s not exactly a 
conventional place to install something. To me, that’d be like saying a user 
application should be installed in windows/system32. The first place I look 
when I want to use a program is Program Files (I know I know, call me nerdy, 
but I don’t use shortcuts either. Bite me. Lol). Is there a reason why it works 
better in the documents folder rather than program files? Is there something I 
could perhaps change? Or is the documents folder pretty much hardcoded?
Also there is the reality factor. I’m guessing if it is still text based that 
won’t happen. For instance I won’t be using arrow keys to walk, space bar to 
shoot and hear enemies chasing me getting ready to fire, or in the space of a 
heart pounding moment with an intense ambience wondering if the security code 
you’re going to enter will let you pass or electrocute you...Besides the 
command issue, that’s another reason why I could never really get into text 
adventures. Again, it’s such a shame since it seems a lot of these types of 
games are a lot more replayable than standard audio games. Especially since 
they also seem to be able to be updated a lot more regularly than audio games 
as well.
Cheers.
Damien.


From: john 
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 11:59 AM
To: blind-gamers@groups.io 
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] MUDs

Hi Damien,
There's a lot to cover here, so I'll try to answer a few of your questions and 
see where to go from there.
Muds are, yes, somewhat similar to text adventures. In this case though, 
there's no "guess the verb" issue, since you can type help  and get a 
description of what it does.
On alter Aeon, you play as a combination of the six classes, picking one to be 
your primary. Which class you choose will determine what style of character you 
end up with - a mage is going to have a lot of offensi

Re: [blind-gamers] MUDs

[Damien Sykes]

Hi John,
Nope, I’m not familiar with Dungeons and Dragons. I’ve heard of it but never 
played it. So in essence, the classes (are those the character types?) deal 
with stats rather than game play?
Yes, I did think that MUDs (or Muds?) were text-based, but someone told me that 
they have become more advanced and can provide the realism that an audio game 
could. You yourself mentioned sounds...How does this work if it is still purely 
text based?
Telnet: I thought that was for commanding operating systems, a bit like SSH? So 
let me get this straight...Alter Aeon is built on Telnet, connected to by 
MushZ, built on MushClient? Sounds like it could be part of a never ending 
chain to me.
I don’t run Windows 10, I’m on 7. However it did want to install to the 
documents folder. I never ever use that folder, and it’s not exactly a 
conventional place to install something. To me, that’d be like saying a user 
application should be installed in windows/system32. The first place I look 
when I want to use a program is Program Files (I know I know, call me nerdy, 
but I don’t use shortcuts either. Bite me. Lol). Is there a reason why it works 
better in the documents folder rather than program files? Is there something I 
could perhaps change? Or is the documents folder pretty much hardcoded?
Also there is the reality factor. I’m guessing if it is still text based that 
won’t happen. For instance I won’t be using arrow keys to walk, space bar to 
shoot and hear enemies chasing me getting ready to fire, or in the space of a 
heart pounding moment with an intense ambience wondering if the security code 
you’re going to enter will let you pass or electrocute you...Besides the 
command issue, that’s another reason why I could never really get into text 
adventures. Again, it’s such a shame since it seems a lot of these types of 
games are a lot more replayable than standard audio games. Especially since 
they also seem to be able to be updated a lot more regularly than audio games 
as well.
Cheers.
Damien.


From: john 
Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 11:59 AM
To: blind-gamers@groups.io 
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] MUDs

Hi Damien,
There's a lot to cover here, so I'll try to answer a few of your questions and 
see where to go from there.
Muds are, yes, somewhat similar to text adventures. In this case though, 
there's no "guess the verb" issue, since you can type help  and get a 
description of what it does.
On alter Aeon, you play as a combination of the six classes, picking one to be 
your primary. Which class you choose will determine what style of character you 
end up with - a mage is going to have a lot of offensive spells but not a lot 
of health, whereas a warrior will focus on physical skills and be more sturdy. 
You can apply a bit of Dungeons and Dragons-esc logic to your choice, if you're 
familiar with that.
As for the connection bit, its worth pointing out that this is not an 
audiogame. Its purely text-based. Muds, in their simplest form, are telnet 
applications. The reason people recommend mush-z is because MushClient, the 
program that runs it, is a really, really powerful telnet client. Its where 
most of the work happens: processing the text you receive from the mud and 
acting on it, for example to play a sound or tell you that you're injured.
If you're running on windows 10, it'd probably be worthwhile for you to install 
mush-z to your documents folder, rather than program files. This may resolve 
some of the technical difficulties.
I know this hasn't covered all your questions, so let me know what else you 
need to know, and I'll see if I can help you get up and running.
Best,
John


From: Damien Sykes 
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 21:39
To: blind-gamers@groups.io 
Subject: [blind-gamers] MUDs

Hi there.
You know, I wasn’t sure if Alter Aeon was discussed on here much any more. 
Given that updates are still posted here that sends me a clear message that it 
is still popular.
I have been hesitant to try MUDs for a while due to the fact that I always knew 
them to be mainly textual, leading to a lot of confusion and frustration for 
beginners of the text gaming world, and a slight sense of anticlimax for those 
more used to real-time gaming such as myself.
However I was recently informed that MUDs have now become more than just the 
traditional text adventure style game and can now include audio, action hotkeys 
etc, like any other audio game might.
To that end, I have been recommended to, and trying to get into, AA. However so 
far I have found the whole concept confusing and almost advanced.
I know something like Crazy Party is no comparison to something like AA, but 
this is how clueless I am in that I’ll have to use it to try and conceptualise 
things in my head, as it is the closest thing I’m aware of.

1. To connect to a Crazy Party server you use Crazy Party and wait for players 
to connect. With AA, it seems there are various applications that wi

Re: [blind-gamers] MUDs

[john]

Hi Damien,
There's a lot to cover here, so I'll try to answer a few of your questions and 
see where to go from there.
Muds are, yes, somewhat similar to text adventures. In this case though, 
there's no "guess the verb" issue, since you can type help  and get a 
description of what it does.
On alter Aeon, you play as a combination of the six classes, picking one to be 
your primary. Which class you choose will determine what style of character you 
end up with - a mage is going to have a lot of offensive spells but not a lot 
of health, whereas a warrior will focus on physical skills and be more sturdy. 
You can apply a bit of Dungeons and Dragons-esc logic to your choice, if you're 
familiar with that.
As for the connection bit, its worth pointing out that this is not an 
audiogame. Its purely text-based. Muds, in their simplest form, are telnet 
applications. The reason people recommend mush-z is because MushClient, the 
program that runs it, is a really, really powerful telnet client. Its where 
most of the work happens: processing the text you receive from the mud and 
acting on it, for example to play a sound or tell you that you're injured.
If you're running on windows 10, it'd probably be worthwhile for you to install 
mush-z to your documents folder, rather than program files. This may resolve 
some of the technical difficulties.
I know this hasn't covered all your questions, so let me know what else you 
need to know, and I'll see if I can help you get up and running.

Best,
John


From: Damien Sykes 
Sent: Tuesday, December 05, 2017 21:39
To: blind-gamers@groups.io 
Subject: [blind-gamers] MUDs


Hi there.
You know, I wasn’t sure if Alter Aeon was discussed on here much any more. 
Given that updates are still posted here that sends me a clear message that it 
is still popular.
I have been hesitant to try MUDs for a while due to the fact that I always knew 
them to be mainly textual, leading to a lot of confusion and frustration for 
beginners of the text gaming world, and a slight sense of anticlimax for those 
more used to real-time gaming such as myself.
However I was recently informed that MUDs have now become more than just the 
traditional text adventure style game and can now include audio, action hotkeys 
etc, like any other audio game might.
To that end, I have been recommended to, and trying to get into, AA. However so 
far I have found the whole concept confusing and almost advanced.
I know something like Crazy Party is no comparison to something like AA, but 
this is how clueless I am in that I’ll have to use it to try and conceptualise 
things in my head, as it is the closest thing I’m aware of.

1. To connect to a Crazy Party server you use Crazy Party and wait for players 
to connect. With AA, it seems there are various applications that will support 
it and there are people there all the time. Is this because AA is centrally 
rather than individually hosted? What are people doing and what would I be 
expected to do? Last thing I want is to find myself logged in, clueless as to 
what to do and have someone say, “what are you doing just sat there?” or even 
worse getting killed.
2. In Crazy Party you simply choose a username and host a server or choose one 
to connect to. AA seems to want character types, skill levels etc, which goes 
way over my head. Seems like AA is taking real life concepts like priests and 
crafters and fighters and the like, none of which I’m good at in real 
life...Are these just game related? What is expected from each profession and 
how do you learn it? Is this specific to AA or are all MUDs like this?
3. Despite the fact I was told that it was like a regular audio game, I’m still 
being asked to type in text commands. I always found this a little daunting in 
offline text adventures, given you have to know all the commands, what you can 
do with each command etc. Whereas an adventure game like Chillingham gives you 
a set list, a text adventure could have a whole host of relevant options. While 
I suppose this gives more replay value to those who are used to such systems, 
to those who have had little, if any, experience with this form of gaming it 
can be very confusing. Especially if you don’t know how movement works. To give 
an example, “Forward is not recognised as a valid exit”? I didn’t get that 
message on AA, but a text adventure I tried to see if I could get used to the 
system before deciding whether to try out MUDs.
4. Now for the software...AA seems to guide blind players to something called 
“MushZ”, which I believe is some derivative of another gaming system that is 
designed in such a way as to make it easier for us to play. Problem is, I’m 
getting tons of errors regarding TTS and sounds, and even more warnings about 
uninitialised variables. There’s nothing in the docs regarding this leading me 
to assume that I’m one of a few, if not alone, in having these errors.

Needless to say. MUDs still seem like a whole planet away from audio 

Re: [blind-gamers] MUDs

[Damien Sykes]

Hi,
Yes, I think the package I was led to was MushZ. But that was also the one 
that kept giving me the error messages.
Also, it asked me what character type I wanted to create without even really 
going into detail about what they were. Needless to say it was all very 
alien to me. Unfortunately I haven't got all the output (to be honest I 
didn't think to explore the options to see if I could save the logs).

Cheers.
Damien.
-Original Message- 
From: Oriol Gómez

Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2017 4:17 AM
To: blind-gamers@groups.io
Subject: Re: [blind-gamers] MUDs

Hi Damien:
If you want to try AA, just go to mush-z.org, download the main client
and run it. it should connect you. once you create a character, there
are man tutorials and helpful explanations inside the game itself, you
won't be just sitting around.

just try it and let me know. mush-z is currently the most popular
option as it has a really good audio environment but there are others.

hth

On 12/6/17, Damien Sykes <dam...@dcpendleton.plus.com> wrote:

Hi there.
You know, I wasn’t sure if Alter Aeon was discussed on here much any more.
Given that updates are still posted here that sends me a clear message 
that

it is still popular.
I have been hesitant to try MUDs for a while due to the fact that I always
knew them to be mainly textual, leading to a lot of confusion and
frustration for beginners of the text gaming world, and a slight sense of
anticlimax for those more used to real-time gaming such as myself.
However I was recently informed that MUDs have now become more than just 
the

traditional text adventure style game and can now include audio, action
hotkeys etc, like any other audio game might.
To that end, I have been recommended to, and trying to get into, AA. 
However

so far I have found the whole concept confusing and almost advanced.
I know something like Crazy Party is no comparison to something like AA, 
but

this is how clueless I am in that I’ll have to use it to try and
conceptualise things in my head, as it is the closest thing I’m aware of.

1. To connect to a Crazy Party server you use Crazy Party and wait for
players to connect. With AA, it seems there are various applications that
will support it and there are people there all the time. Is this because 
AA
is centrally rather than individually hosted? What are people doing and 
what

would I be expected to do? Last thing I want is to find myself logged in,
clueless as to what to do and have someone say, “what are you doing just 
sat

there?” or even worse getting killed.
2. In Crazy Party you simply choose a username and host a server or choose
one to connect to. AA seems to want character types, skill levels etc, 
which

goes way over my head. Seems like AA is taking real life concepts like
priests and crafters and fighters and the like, none of which I’m good at 
in

real life...Are these just game related? What is expected from each
profession and how do you learn it? Is this specific to AA or are all MUDs
like this?
3. Despite the fact I was told that it was like a regular audio game, I’m
still being asked to type in text commands. I always found this a little
daunting in offline text adventures, given you have to know all the
commands, what you can do with each command etc. Whereas an adventure game
like Chillingham gives you a set list, a text adventure could have a whole
host of relevant options. While I suppose this gives more replay value to
those who are used to such systems, to those who have had little, if any,
experience with this form of gaming it can be very confusing. Especially 
if

you don’t know how movement works. To give an example, “Forward is not
recognised as a valid exit”? I didn’t get that message on AA, but a text
adventure I tried to see if I could get used to the system before deciding
whether to try out MUDs.
4. Now for the software...AA seems to guide blind players to something
called “MushZ”, which I believe is some derivative of another gaming 
system
that is designed in such a way as to make it easier for us to play. 
Problem

is, I’m getting tons of errors regarding TTS and sounds, and even more
warnings about uninitialised variables. There’s nothing in the docs
regarding this leading me to assume that I’m one of a few, if not alone, 
in

having these errors.

Needless to say. MUDs still seem like a whole planet away from audio 
gaming
and so I feel something a bit more is needed for beginners than, here’s 
the
software, get playing. During the short spell I actually played MUDs 
several
years ago, someone was practically holding my hand and guiding me every 
step

of the way, so that when I lost contact with this person I pretty much had
to stop because I still didn’t know what I was doing. Is there something I
am missing? Are there thoughts from other beginners in this area? Or is it
one of these merky areas where it’s hard for people to get into it unless
you were practically brought up with it, kind of thing?