Re: Misplaced mail, interesting neighbor, snake
Jon Gabriel wrote: From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Misplaced mail, interesting neighbor, snake Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 22:42:37 -0500 snip Oh, and the neighbor that Dan's most friendly with came over on the weekend to help Dan dispose of a snake. Turned out to just be a rat snake, and it probably wouldn't have messed with our dogs, but Dan didn't want to take any chances. (He doesn't know how to identify a rattler by sight, and assumes that all snakes are dangerous. I can recognize some snakes as harmless, and he'll leave the little ones be on my say-so.) It was over 5' long. Five FEET?!? Is that normal? I don't have a phobia about snakes, but can't imagine being too pleased to see one 5 feet long in my backyard. Sheesh. I *can* imagine Robin's reaction though. I'd find her wrapped around any ceiling fixture secured more than 15 feet in the air. :) Jon GSV It Was THIS Big (Mutant Freak Snake Class) 5' isn't that big, is it? I've seen king snakes bigger than that around here and I've seen a few rattlers that had to be around that size. None of them anywhere near the house though, I've only seen them while hiking. My daughter saw a large lion within a 100 yards of my parent's place in the Sierra last winter. Now _that's_ a bit scary. Doug Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: 2003 NFL Preview
Bryon Daly wrote: From: Doug Pensinger [EMAIL PROTECTED] Julia Thompson wrote: (I was living in New England in the mid-1980s. 'Nuff said. At least I was used to that sort of thing, being a Red Sox fan and all) You should hate the Raiders too then, eh? Doesn't everyone hate the Raiders? ;-) I used to be a Raider hater, but after all their fans have gone through, I don't hate them anymore. I even think that they got robbed in the AFC championship a couple years ago on that bogus not a fumble call. I do hate Al Davis though. Not only is he continually f**king his fans - some of the most faithful in football, but he completely ruined the Oakland Coliseum for baseball with the Mt. Davis addition when the Raiders came back to Oakland. One of the biggest a**holes in sports. Doug Who as a t an A's game at said stadium tonight. A's defeat Angels 8-1 behind a rookie pitcher and jacks from Tejada, Hernandez and Dye, opening up a 2 1/2 game lead in the AL West over Seattle who lost to Texas in 10. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Misplaced mail, interesting neighbor, snake
On 10 Sep 2003 at 0:53, Jon Gabriel wrote: From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Misplaced mail, interesting neighbor, snake Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 22:42:37 -0500 snip Oh, and the neighbor that Dan's most friendly with came over on the weekend to help Dan dispose of a snake. Turned out to just be a rat snake, and it probably wouldn't have messed with our dogs, but Dan didn't want to take any chances. (He doesn't know how to identify a rattler by sight, and assumes that all snakes are dangerous. I can recognize some snakes as harmless, and he'll leave the little ones be on my say-so.) It was over 5' long. Five FEET?!? Is that normal? I don't have a phobia about snakes, but can't imagine being too pleased to see one 5 feet long in my backyard. Sheesh. I *can* imagine Robin's reaction though. I'd find her wrapped around any ceiling fixture secured more than 15 feet in the air. :) Heh. We only have a few types of snakes over here, and the only poisenous one (Adder) is rare and generally confined to certain terrain (gorse scrub). Grass snakes, on the other hand, are common just round here, and I've been bitten by several including one especially large seven inch example. Ow. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Scouted: The South Will Rise Again!
For someone to want to restore a men only institution could well be a desire to return to misogyny, but it might not. I'm not sure that we should immediately assume they're just a bunch of scumbag racists. And sexists. And almost certainly anti-Semites. I can't expect someone in Australia to understand the dynamic of the American South, just as I can't be expected to understand Australian social dynamics. Let me assure you, the men proposing to start this new Southern Military Institute are definitely racist and sexist, and based on what I know of similar people, I have no doubt they harbor anti-Jewish feelings too. As far as people saying, Well, I didn't cause the previous discrimination, so why should I be discriminated against? - funny, innit, how these people never PROTESTED the previous discrimination either? How they never said a word AGAINST discrimination until they became (in their own self-pitying minds) victims? You get (up here, at least) racist scum like Trent Lott and Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms and Bob Barr who not once in their lives ever said a single word against Jim Crow, and have even benefitted politically from pandering to the racist resentment of the good ol' boys, but who get all hot and bothered by what they call reverse discrimination. In my eyes, they would at least have a tiny semblance of moral authority if they had ever, even once, sincerely condemned the racism and discrimination they themselves once publicly exhibited, and basically still do, even if they try to dissemble when they think no one from the New York Times is listening. People who say, Well, racism is bad, but I didn't do it, and reverse discrimination is worse, to me know nothing about real discrimination (and have a responsibility to learn), don't really object to racism, and are basically selfish, self-pitying, mean-spirited immature little creeps who need a scapegoat to blame for their own problems. And politicians who pander to them are even worse; it's a lot easier just to tell these jerks that they're 100% right and all their problems are someone else's fault than it is to take responsibility for not doing anything to help anybody, for not owning up to and truly repenting for their own racist pasts (and, in most cases, racist presents), and for attempting to lead the way toward true reconciliation for everyone. Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last. - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Scouted: The Ultimate Roleplaying Purity Score
At 08:01 AM 9/8/03 -0500, Horn, John wrote: From: Julia Thompson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] tangent When I was in grade school, we did soap carvings once. Everyone had to bring in a bar of soap and a pocketknife. (I'm guessing the pocketknife would be forbidden these days) I managed to carve a passable fish out of a bar of Ivory. In fact, Ivory was the recommended soap, but someone came in with another brand because she was allergic to Ivory. /tangent I made a somewhat passable carving of the state of New Jersey out of Ivory when I was in school. Must be something that was done in a lot of different schools. Bet you're glad you didn't grow up in Hawaii. Or even Alaska. Colorado or Wyoming, OTOH . . . -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: strange snail mail
Bryon Daly wrote: From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] (I'm part of a branch of a family that was found in the past few years. Got a call right after a Super Bowl, from my father's second cousin. Guy lives in Gonzales. Never met him yet, but we e-mail a lot. I got my favorite cousin in touch with him last year, and she's very happy about that.) My family was recently found as well. It turns out my grandfather's brother, Anthony, had a fling with a woman while stationed in Europe as WWII ended. He was then shipped home, apparently never learning she had gotten pregnant by him. The woman then moved to Canada, where she met and married someone else, who raised the baby girl, Julie, as his, along with several children he did father. Only when the woman was on her death bed, (when Julie was in her late 50's!) did she reveal to Julie that her 'father' actually wasn't her biological parent, and who her father really was, along with a few old photos of him. It took Julie a while, but she finally managed to track our family down. Unfortunately, her father, my Uncle Tony, had died a number of years earlier, and neither of his two children she reached wanted anything to do with her (mostly I guess they both had some other issues going on and didn't want to deal with her). But Julie stuck with it and with more research, she tracked down my mother and a few other relatives, who were fascinated by the story and much more welcoming. Just 2 weeks ago, Julie came down to NJ for my cousin's wedding, so I got to meet her, 2 of her daughters, and her grandaughter. Very fun. Cool! Our lost branch wasn't quite as dramatic a story as that; one of the daughters in a family which was in Arkansas at the time married a man working in Texas, and then they left Texas a number of years later. So the folks following the trail in Texas came up empty-handed, but someone managed to find records elsewhere about the family relocating to Virginia. I'm not sure that Cousin William has managed to find any living part of that family besides my grandfather's descendents, but that's *something*, at least. (My grandfather was the youngest, and born in Virginia. So I had ancestors *in* Texas before Dan did, but he had ancestors *born* in Texas, which is more than *I* can say.) None of my father's family made it to my wedding. My sister will be getting married next year, and it looks like she's going to manage to get at least some of our uncles, aunts and cousins from that side. (At the very least, our cousin Margaret, whom I've never met, lives works close enough to where the wedding will be that I'm fairly certain *she'll* show, and then I'll get to meet her!) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Misplaced mail, interesting neighbor, snake
Jon Gabriel wrote: From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Misplaced mail, interesting neighbor, snake Date: Tue, 09 Sep 2003 22:42:37 -0500 snip Oh, and the neighbor that Dan's most friendly with came over on the weekend to help Dan dispose of a snake. Turned out to just be a rat snake, and it probably wouldn't have messed with our dogs, but Dan didn't want to take any chances. (He doesn't know how to identify a rattler by sight, and assumes that all snakes are dangerous. I can recognize some snakes as harmless, and he'll leave the little ones be on my say-so.) It was over 5' long. Five FEET?!? Is that normal? I don't have a phobia about snakes, but can't imagine being too pleased to see one 5 feet long in my backyard. Sheesh. I *can* imagine Robin's reaction though. I'd find her wrapped around any ceiling fixture secured more than 15 feet in the air. :) It's not *ab*normal around here. 6' rattlers are not unheard of. (I think that's about as long as the one that was in the road that some neighbors were trying to kill at one point. Dan ran over it a couple of times with his car, to see if that would help.) Actually, Dan initially thought it might be 2 snakes, because the diameter of the snake wasn't large enough for him to be confident that it was just the one snake. If he'd known it was just one, he probably would have dealt with it himself, but he wanted someone for backup, just in case. Now he's wanting to get something with which to sharpen the hoe, so he's better prepared next time. (Easier to do that than to invest in a BB gun and ammo.) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Decline in SF?
-Original Message- From: Bryon Daly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 1:34 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Decline in SF? This article by Spider Robinson laments the decline in SF, replaced by backwards-looking Fantasy: http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20 030908/COSPIDER08/ or: http://makeashorterlink.com/?L565156D5 Would you guys agree? Is this an indicator that young people no longer find the real future exciting? Or is it more just an indicator of book publishers overzealously adhering to the latest trends, while potentially great SF authors languish unpublished? I would agree. I find it very hard to find good sci-fi that strikes me in the same way as say Pournelle, Asimov, Heinlein, Poul or Niven (and more recently Brin :-)). I have a co-worker who has read more Sci-fi than anyone I have ever known, but the bulk of what he reads is popularized pulp, usually serialized. In fact, he is the only person I know who has read the COMPLETE Battlefield Earth series (yuk!). He laments on how long Jordan's books are, he knows its pulp, but he reads it anyway. I read a non-fiction book by Orson Scott Card, where he wrote an essay on how to write Sci-Fi. He made a point that no matter what new idea/plot/twist you may think of, it has already been done. This leads me to believe that Sci-fi has matured, and in the process, become popularized for the non sci-fi reader. Perhaps this is a form of sci-fi being marginalized. Regardless, there is good, new innovative sci-fi out there, you just have to really go by word of mouth from old school Sci-fi enthusiasts. When I go to the Sci-fi rack, it is difficult to judge a book by its cover, since they all look exciting. Frankly I have a confession - I have not read any new sci-fi, other than Brin for about a year. I am looking for good recommendations. Would anyone on the list have any ideas for a good book to read :-) (Please limit your suggestion to one per person. - thank you) As a side topic, Spider also laments the uncertainty of seeing manned exploration of Mars within his lifetime. This got me thinking - didn't either Bush or Clinton at some point announce intent to fund an apollo-like manned Mars mission project, which was then immediately pooh-poohed by the scientific community as a waste of money that would be better spent on other scientific projects (ie: superconducting supercollider)? Anyone remember more details on that? Agree or disagree with it? It does seem to be an ego thing, for NASA to attempt to recapture the excitement and support during the Apollo era. While we can technically do it, I am against it until we have space elevators operational. Nerd From Hell _ Get a FREE computer virus scan online from McAfee. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Edward Teller, 1908-2003
http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/10/obituaries/10TELL.html?hp ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Decline in SF?
From: Chad Cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Bryon Daly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] This article by Spider Robinson laments the decline in SF, replaced by backwards-looking Fantasy: http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20 030908/COSPIDER08/ or: http://makeashorterlink.com/?L565156D5 Would you guys agree? Is this an indicator that young people no longer find the real future exciting? Or is it more just an indicator of book publishers overzealously adhering to the latest trends, while potentially great SF authors languish unpublished? I would agree. I find it very hard to find good sci-fi that strikes me in the same way as say Pournelle, Asimov, Heinlein, Poul or Niven (and more recently Brin :-)). I have a co-worker who has read more Sci-fi than anyone I have ever known, but the bulk of what he reads is popularized pulp, usually serialized. In fact, he is the only person I know who has read the COMPLETE Battlefield Earth series (yuk!). Mission Earth. They are different. And I also have the 10 book series. It's not unbearably bad. He laments on how long Jordan's books are, he knows its pulp, but he reads it anyway. These newer ones aren't long enough. After Crown of swords every single book has been 1/2 the size of previous books. That's why a lot of people are whining about the new books. They are really only half books. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: 2003 NFL Preview
What owners are *not* hated by fans? New York Giants fans (of which I am proud to be a lifelong member) practically worship Wellington Mara. We're not as sure about Bob Tisch, but that may just be a sort of good cop/bad cop kind of thing, where Mara is the Grand Old Man (he just turned 87), while Tisch does the necessary dirty work of running the team on a day-to-day basis. Tom Beck www.prydonians.org www.mercerjewishsingles.org I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the last. - Dr Jerry Pournelle ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: 2003 NFL Preview
From: Julia Thompson [EMAIL PROTECTED] Doug Pensinger wrote: I used to be a Raider hater, but after all their fans have gone through, I don't hate them anymore. I even think that they got robbed in the AFC championship a couple years ago on that bogus not a fumble call. It was a pass attempt, really! OK, maybe not. A lot of people around here think it's some karmic recompense for a blown roughing the passer call that cost the Patriots the AFC championship vs the Raiders back in the 70's. And of course, Al Davis blamed it on a conspiracy against him by the NFL. I do hate Al Davis though. Not only is he continually f**king his fans - some of the most faithful in football, but he completely ruined the Oakland Coliseum for baseball with the Mt. Davis addition when the Raiders came back to Oakland. One of the biggest a**holes in sports. My mother-in-law hates the Raiders *because* of Al Davis. At this point, though, she might have to hate the Cowboys due to Jerry Jones, I think, and I'm not sure she's willing to go *that* far. Al Davis is my primary reason to hate the Raiders, too. What other owners are hated by fans? Robery Irsay, now-deceased owner of the (then) Baltimore Colts was hated by a lot of people when he snuck them out of Baltimore. Art Modell is hated similarly for moving the Browns from Cleveland (though he was forced to leave the team name behind). Mike Brown, the owner of the Bengals, is hated by some Bengals fans, mostly because they think he's inept at running the team. Dan Snyder, owner of the Redskins, is widely hated by Gregg Easterbrook (among others), who refers to him as Lord Voldemort. What owners are *not* hated by fans? I was going to mention Wellington Mara, but Tom beat me to it. Bob Kraft, owner of the Patriots, is generally considered a pretty good guy. Except the people of Hartford, who hate him because he made a deal to move the Pats there, but then backed out and kept them in Foxboro. Art/Dan Rooney, owners of the Steelers, are also generally considered good guys. _ Need more e-mail storage? Get 10MB with Hotmail Extra Storage. http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Edward Teller, 1908-2003
In a message dated 9/10/2003 10:11:46 AM US Mountain Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: From: Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/10/obituaries/10TELL.html?hp What will Penn do with the act, now that Teller is gone, I wonder... What? It's not *that* Teller? Oh, well, then *never mind*. :-) Yea. The one that's made the most bombs throughout his career is still living. Whose comedy routine involved calling Edward Teller to wish happy birthday to the H-bomb? William Taylor Why is that mouse roaring? ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Edward Teller, 1908-2003
From: Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Brin-L [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Edward Teller, 1908-2003 Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 10:30:05 -0500 http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/10/obituaries/10TELL.html?hp On a less Wibberly note... :) The final two paragraphs of this obituary were interesting to me. While, unlike many atomic scientists, Dr. Teller did not argue against dropping the bomb on Japanese cities, he repeatedly said afterward that doing so had been a mistake. Far better, he maintained, would have been to fire a bomb in the evening high enough above Tokyo to spare the city but to flood it in blinding light. Would this scenario have been possible? This might have been difficult to pull off physically. I can also If we only had a limited number of bombs, this option wouldn't necessarily have been considered realistic. But do any of the physicists or materials engineers on the list think this might have been do-able without killing the crew of the Enola Gay in the process? Jon Le Blog: http://zarq.livejournal.com _ Get a FREE computer virus scan online from McAfee. http://clinic.mcafee.com/clinic/ibuy/campaign.asp?cid=3963 ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Scouted: Lawyers are evil and must be destroyed . . .
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/338903.html Last Update: 10/09/2003 17:46 Egyptian lawyer to sue Jews for biblical 'plunder' By Reuters CAIRO - An Egyptian lawyer said on Wednesday he was planning to sue the world's Jews for plundering gold during the Exodus from Pharaonic Egypt thousands of years ago, based on information in the Bible. Nabil Hilmi, Dean of the Faculty of Law at Egypt's al-Zaqaziq University, said the legal basis for the case was under study by a group of lawyers in Egypt and Europe. This is serious, and should not be misread as being political against any race. We are just investigating if a debt is owed, Hilmi told Reuters in a telephone interview. The relevant passage from the Bible, Exodus 12 verses 35 to 36 reads: The Israelites had done as Moses told them; they had asked the Egyptians for jewelry of silver and gold, and for clothing...And so they plundered the Egyptians. This translation is in the New Revised Standard Version of the Bible. Some Jewish commentators say that while the Biblical passage may be fact, the Hebrews were enslaved by the Egyptians and therefore had a right to claim compensation for wages. Hilmi's assertion that the Hebrew Bible is fact has given Israel and Jews the world over a reason to rejoice. He has opened the door for all Jews to sue Egypt for over 400 years of slavery, writer Beth Goodman told Reuters. Tareq Zaghoul, a lawyer at the Egyptian Organisation for Human Rights in Cairo, said it would be difficult to prove historical fact in the passage that would stand up in court. This needs historical documents and evidence to back it up. It is rather far-fetched, he said. Hilmi said Egyptian and European historical and religious experts were trying to establish if the biblical passage could be taken as fact, and hence form the basis for a lawsuit. He said the argument that Jews could sue Egypt for enslaving them was also being studied by experts. Hilmi gave no details of which court he planned to file the case in or whether he thought such a case would be exempt from the sort of statute of limitations that in many countries rules out legal cases after a certain period of time. He also declined to put a value on the goods plundered. -- Ronn! :) ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Scouted: Lawyers are evil and must be destroyed . . .
From: Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Scouted: Lawyers are evil and must be destroyed . . . Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 14:02:56 -0500 http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/spages/338903.html Last Update: 10/09/2003 17:46 Egyptian lawyer to sue Jews for biblical 'plunder' By Reuters CAIRO - An Egyptian lawyer said on Wednesday he was planning to sue the world's Jews for plundering gold during the Exodus from Pharaonic Egypt thousands of years ago, based on information in the Bible. snip Hilmi's assertion that the Hebrew Bible is fact has given Israel and Jews the world over a reason to rejoice. He has opened the door for all Jews to sue Egypt for over 400 years of slavery, writer Beth Goodman told Reuters. LOL! Oops! Back to the ol' drawing board! Thanks for posting this. I needed the laugh. :-D Jon Le Blog: http://zarq.livejournal.com _ Send and receive larger attachments with Hotmail Extra Storage. http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Decline in SF?
- Original Message - From: The Fool [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 10:28 AM Subject: Re: Decline in SF? From: Chad Cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] From: Bryon Daly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] This article by Spider Robinson laments the decline in SF, replaced by backwards-looking Fantasy: http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20 030908/COSPIDER08/ or: http://makeashorterlink.com/?L565156D5 Would you guys agree? Is this an indicator that young people no longer find the real future exciting? Or is it more just an indicator of book publishers overzealously adhering to the latest trends, while potentially great SF authors languish unpublished? I would agree. I find it very hard to find good sci-fi that strikes me in the same way as say Pournelle, Asimov, Heinlein, Poul or Niven (and more recently Brin :-)). I have a co-worker who has read more Sci-fi than anyone I have ever known, but the bulk of what he reads is popularized pulp, usually serialized. In fact, he is the only person I know who has read the COMPLETE Battlefield Earth series (yuk!). Mission Earth. They are different. And I also have the 10 book series. It's not unbearably bad. He laments on how long Jordan's books are, he knows its pulp, but he reads it anyway. These newer ones aren't long enough. After Crown of swords every single book has been 1/2 the size of previous books. That's why a lot of people are whining about the new books. They are really only half books. Which people are you talking about? The main complaint on UseNet has been that nothing happens but sniffing and folding of arms across one's bosom for page after page after page. Winter's Heart has as many pages (to with 5) of Path of Daggers. The type set is slightly larger (39 vs. 37 lines per page), but that doesn't afford a factor of two. Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Decline in SF?
At 08:17 AM 9/10/2003 -0700, you wrote: -Original Message- From: Bryon Daly [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 1:34 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Decline in SF? This article by Spider Robinson laments the decline in SF, replaced by backwards-looking Fantasy: http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20 030908/COSPIDER08/ or: http://makeashorterlink.com/?L565156D5 Would you guys agree? Is this an indicator that young people no longer find the real future exciting? Or is it more just an indicator of book publishers overzealously adhering to the latest trends, while potentially great SF authors languish unpublished? I would agree. I find it very hard to find good sci-fi that strikes me in the same way as say Pournelle, Asimov, Heinlein, Poul or Niven (and more recently Brin :-)). I have a co-worker who has read more Sci-fi than anyone I have ever known, but the bulk of what he reads is popularized pulp, usually serialized. In fact, he is the only person I know who has read the COMPLETE Battlefield Earth series (yuk!). He laments on how long Jordan's books are, he knows its pulp, but he reads it anyway. Frankly I have a confession - I have not read any new sci-fi, other than Brin for about a year. I am looking for good recommendations. Would anyone on the list have any ideas for a good book to read :-) (Please limit your suggestion to one per person. - thank you) Nerd From Hell Over 1,000 pages of thrills, spills, vicious aliens and noble humans. I found Battlefield Earth un-put-downable. Neil Gaiman My brother has all the books also, in hard back. Him and his wife has read them. I did three or four, but wow it got bad. (It started bad too) The *ulture people recommended Chasm City http://thebestreviews.com/review3937 and Revelation Space by Alastair Reynolds I liked Gaiman's American Gods. Not Sci-Fi. Philip Pullman Dark Materials trilogy. Not hard sci-fi but good story. Kevin T. - VRWC Whoops I recommended more than one. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Brin: Forward, into the past
I read this one completely and agree. It sometimes can make me sad. Regards Armin Freiberg -- From: The Fool[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply To: Killer Bs Discussion Sent: Dienstag, 9. September 2003 13:24 To: Brin-L Subject: Brin: Forward, into the past http://www.globeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20030908/COSPI DER08/ Forward, into the past Why are our imaginations retreating from science and space, and into fantasy? asks SPIDER ROBINSON By SPIDER ROBINSON Monday, September 8, 2003 - Page A17 I've recently returned from Torcon 3, the 61st World Science Fiction Convention, held at the end of August in Toronto. I left it deeply concerned for the future -- not merely of my chosen genre or my chosen country, but my species. I served this Worldcon as its toastmaster, and presiding over our annual Hugo Awards ceremony required me to make a speech. This being the 50th year that Hugos have been given for excellence in SF, I devoted my remarks to the present depressing state of the field. Three short steps into the New Millennium, written SF is paradoxically in sharp decline. My genre has always had its ups and downs, but this is by far its worst, longest downswing. Sales are down, magazines are languishing, our stars are aging and not being replaced. And the reason is depressingly clear: Those few readers who haven't defected to Tolkienesque fantasy cling only to Star Trek, Star Wars, and other Sci Fi franchises. Incredibly, young people no longer find the real future exciting. They no longer find science admirable. They no longer instinctively lust to go to space. Just as we've committed ourselves inextricably to a high-tech world (and thank God, for no other kind will feed five billion), we appear to have become nearly as terrified of technology, of science -- of change -- as the Arab world, or the Vatican. We are proud both of our VCRs, and our claimed inability to program them. I'm not knocking fantasy, but if we look only backward instead of forward, too, one day we will find ourselves surrounded by an electorate that has never willingly thought a single thought their great-grandparents would not have recognized. That's simply not acceptable. That way lies inconceivable horror, a bin Laden future for our grandchildren. SF's central metaphor and brightest vision, lovingly polished and presented as entertainingly as we knew how to make it, has been largely rejected by the world we meant to save. Because I was born in 1948, the phrase I'll probably always use to indicate something is futuristic is space age. There were doubtless grown adults at Torcon 3 who were born after the space age ended. The very existence of the new Robert A. Heinlein Awards, given for the first time at Torcon to honour works that inspire manned exploration of space, proves a need was perceived to foster such works. About the only part of our shared vision of the future that actually came to pass was the part where America just naturally took over the world. But while it's prepared to police (parts of) a planet, the new Terran Federation is so far not interested enough to even glance at another one. Inconceivable wealth and limitless energy lie right over our heads, within easy reach, and we're too dumb to go get them -- using perfectly good rockets to kill each other, instead. The day Apollo 11 landed, I knew for certain men would walk on Mars in my lifetime. So did the late Robert Heinlein -- I just saw him say so to Walter Cronkite last weekend, on kinescope. I'm no longer nearly so sure. The Red Planet is as close as it's been in 60,000 years -- and the last budget put forward in Canada contained not a penny for Mars. (Please, go to http://www.marssociety.com and sign the protest petition there.) At Torcon 3, I caught up with Michael Lennick, co-producer of a superb Canadian documentary series about manned spaceflight, Rocket Science. His next project examines the growing phenomenon of people who refuse to believe we ever landed on the moon. Not because he sees them as amusing cranks . . . but because they're becoming as common as Elvis-nuts. And it's hard to argue with their logic: It beggars belief, they say, that we could possibly have achieved moon flight . . . and given it up. On the other hand, I take heart that SF still exists, 50 years after the first Hugo was awarded. My wife's family are Portuguese fisherfolk from Provincetown, Mass., where every summer they've held a ceremony called the Blessing of the Fleet, in which the harbour fills with boats and the archbishop blesses their labours. The 50th-ever blessing was the last. There's no fishing fleet left. For the first time in living memory, there is not a single working fishing boat in P-town . . . because there are no cod or haddock left on the Grand Banks. For all its present problems, science
Re: Scouted: The South Will Rise Again!
At 09:30 AM 9/10/2003 -0400, you wrote: For someone to want to restore a men only institution could well be a desire to return to misogyny, but it might not. I'm not sure that we should immediately assume they're just a bunch of scumbag racists. And sexists. And almost certainly anti-Semites. I can't expect someone in Australia to understand the dynamic of the American South, just as I can't be expected to understand Australian social dynamics. Let me assure you, the men proposing to start this new Southern Military Institute are definitely racist and sexist, and based on what I know of similar people, I have no doubt they harbor anti-Jewish feelings too. As far as people saying, Well, I didn't cause the previous discrimination, so why should I be discriminated against? - funny, innit, how these people never PROTESTED the previous discrimination either? How they never said a word AGAINST discrimination until they became (in their own self-pitying minds) victims? You get (up here, at least) racist scum like Trent Lott and Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms and Bob Barr who not once in their lives ever said a single word against Jim Crow, and have even benefitted politically from pandering to the racist resentment of the good ol' boys, but who get all hot and bothered by what they call reverse discrimination. In my eyes, they would at least have a tiny semblance of moral authority if they had ever, even once, sincerely condemned the racism and discrimination they themselves once publicly exhibited, and basically still do, even if they try to dissemble when they think no one from the New York Times is listening. People who say, Well, racism is bad, but I didn't do it, and reverse discrimination is worse, to me know nothing about real discrimination (and have a responsibility to learn), don't really object to racism, and are basically selfish, self-pitying, mean-spirited immature little creeps who need a scapegoat to blame for their own problems. And politicians who pander to them are even worse; it's a lot easier just to tell these jerks that they're 100% right and all their problems are someone else's fault than it is to take responsibility for not doing anything to help anybody, for not owning up to and truly repenting for their own racist pasts (and, in most cases, racist presents), and for attempting to lead the way toward true reconciliation for everyone. Tom Beck Tom knows all! Tom sees all! He knows the evil that dwells in men's hearts. Who are you to question his views? He is right now, he has always been right in the past, and he will forever be right in the future. He just forgot to mention Robert Byrd, George Wallace, Jesse Jackson...oh he can't be racist, he's black. Kevin T. - VRWC No more tears ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Scouted: The South Will Rise Again!
- Original Message - From: Kevin Tarr [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, September 10, 2003 3:26 PM Subject: Re: Scouted: The South Will Rise Again! Tom knows all! Tom sees all! He knows the evil that dwells in men's hearts. Who are you to question his views? He is right now, he has always been right in the past, and he will forever be right in the future. He just forgot to mention Robert Byrd, George Wallace, Jesse Jackson...oh he can't be racist, he's black. Out of curiosity, do you think that the Republican Southern strategy is just a liberal myth? Dan M. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Scouted: The South Will Rise Again!
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Scouted: The South Will Rise Again! Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 09:30:11 EDT For someone to want to restore a men only institution could well be a desire to return to misogyny, but it might not. I'm not sure that we should immediately assume they're just a bunch of scumbag racists. And sexists. And almost certainly anti-Semites. I can't expect someone in Australia to understand the dynamic of the American South, just as I can't be expected to understand Australian social dynamics. Let me assure you, the men proposing to start this new Southern Military Institute are definitely racist and sexist, and based on what I know of similar people, I have no doubt they harbor anti-Jewish feelings too. *general noises of agreement* These institutions prided themselves on hating everybody who wasn't a southern gentleman, which included (at various times) Blacks, Jews, Latins, Catholics, women, Muslims, immigrants, Asians, the Irish, etc., etc. I doubt their intentions are honorable, and there's a lot of historical precedent to back you up. As far as people saying, Well, I didn't cause the previous discrimination, so why should I be discriminated against? - funny, innit, how these people never PROTESTED the previous discrimination either? Sometimes. Not always. If you paint them all with the same brush, then I'd disagree. I personally object to affirmative action because I think it could discriminate against people who are better suited for a job, but will be passed over because another applicant got lucky. I don't think that pov makes me a racist. How they never said a word AGAINST discrimination until they became (in their own self-pitying minds) victims? You get (up here, at least) racist scum like Trent Lott and Strom Thurmond and Jesse Helms and Bob Barr who not once in their lives ever said a single word against Jim Crow, and have even benefitted politically from pandering to the racist resentment of the good ol' boys, but who get all hot and bothered by what they call reverse discrimination. In my eyes, they would at least have a tiny semblance of moral authority if they had ever, even once, sincerely condemned the racism and discrimination they themselves once publicly exhibited, and basically still do, even if they try to dissemble when they think no one from the New York Times is listening. Al Sharpton is a good example of this process working in a pro-black/anti-white way. Malcolm X. Jesse Jackson. Khalil Abdul Muhammad. Remember that it goes both ways. There are plenty of racists to go around on both sides of the fence. Didn't Lott and Thurmond support anti-discrimination legislation in later years? They may not have been able to erase history, but iirc, they were working to change the future. I know for sure that Thurmond apologized. People who say, Well, racism is bad, but I didn't do it, and reverse discrimination is worse, to me know nothing about real discrimination (and have a responsibility to learn), don't really object to racism, and are basically selfish, self-pitying, mean-spirited immature little creeps who need a scapegoat to blame for their own problems. This I disagree with. Discrimination is vile in all its forms, even that which masquerades as ethnocentrism. And reverse discrimination *is* worse, because it's being done by people who have full knowledge of what being discriminated against is like. What the heck is wrong with people being judged on merit rather than the color of their skin, or their religion, anyway? And politicians who pander to them are even worse; it's a lot easier just to tell these jerks that they're 100% right and all their problems are someone else's fault than it is to take responsibility for not doing anything to help anybody, for not owning up to and truly repenting for their own racist pasts (and, in most cases, racist presents), and for attempting to lead the way toward true reconciliation for everyone. So... by that logic, politicians who are pro-affirmative action could merely be pandering to the people in this country who want to blame others for their own lacks. I may be misunderstanding or reading you wrong, but I think you're contradicting yourself here? Jon Le Blog: http://zarq.livejournal.com _ Express yourself with MSN Messenger 6.0 -- download now! http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_general ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Edward Teller, 1908-2003
On 10 Sep 2003 at 15:19, Jan Coffey wrote: Copy and past. I refuse to give NYT my info. login: brinl / brinl Handy, neh? Andy --- Ronn!Blankenship [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/10/obituaries/10TELL.html?hp ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l = _ Jan William Coffey _ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Scouted: Lawyers are evil and must be destroyed . . .
Ronn!Blankenship wrote: CAIRO - An Egyptian lawyer said on Wednesday he was planning to sue the world's Jews for plundering gold during the Exodus from Pharaonic Egypt thousands of years ago, based on information in the Bible. Umm - a couple of obvious things - you can't sue a race of people, you have to bring your suit against a specific entity - be it a government, corporation, association, individual or any combination of the above. I mean, who is going to defend, or pay? The first jewish person the process server runs into on the day? Secondly, I think that a statute of limitations applies on simple plundering pretty much everywhere - only capital crimes are ever excluded, and the exclusions vary too much to be useful. Thirdly, none of the people who are being asked to answer for this crime actually committed this crime. The accused have been dead for thousands of years. Even if stupendous discoveries of incontrovertible evidence was suddenly discovered, it's not going to point at anyone around today... The world's gone mad - is this the best thing they can think of to do with their time and energy? Cheers Russell C. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Misplaced mail, interesting neighbor, snake
Andrew Crystall wrote: Grass snakes, on the other hand, are common just round here, and I've been bitten by several including one especially large seven inch example. Ow. Phhbbbt... Seven inches is the size of the fangs on our snakes... :-) I'm curious about being bitten - (Being bitten by a snake in Aus tends to be a one-off thing...) Do these snakes actually inject poison? What's the physiological reaction like? I suppose Brits have a whole different psyche to Aussies when it comes to snakes, but the idea of being bitten by more than one snake just fills me with fear... Cheers Russell C. ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Scouted: Lawyers are evil and must be destroyed . . .
--- Russell Chapman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ronn!Blankenship wrote: CAIRO - An Egyptian lawyer said on Wednesday he was planning to sue the world's Jews for plundering gold during the Exodus from Pharaonic Egypt thousands of years ago, based on information in the Bible. Umm - a couple of obvious things - you can't sue a race of people, you have to bring your suit against a specific entity - be it a government, corporation, association, individual or any combination of the above. I mean, who is going to defend, or pay? The first jewish person the process server runs into on the day? Secondly, I think that a statute of limitations applies on simple plundering pretty much everywhere - only capital crimes are ever excluded, and the exclusions vary too much to be useful. Thirdly, none of the people who are being asked to answer for this crime actually committed this crime. The accused have been dead for thousands of years. Even if stupendous discoveries of incontrovertible evidence was suddenly discovered, it's not going to point at anyone around today... What if your gradfather, knowing that he and my grandfather are both near death, were to rob my grandfather buy gold with the money and put it into an offshore bank under your name. Further more he writes in his journal that he did this. No one is around any more who was originaly involved. Now what if it was your great grandfather and the only way you were to recover it was that he made sure you (who was not yet born) got the journal, so you would know where to get your gold. Now what if it was his father, or his father before him? Where does one draw the line? The world's gone mad - Yes it has. = _ Jan William Coffey _ __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Scouted: Lawyers are evil and must be destroyed . . .
Jan Coffey wrote: --- Russell Chapman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ronn!Blankenship wrote: CAIRO - An Egyptian lawyer said on Wednesday he was planning to sue the world's Jews for plundering gold during the Exodus from Pharaonic Egypt thousands of years ago, based on information in the Bible. Umm - a couple of obvious things - you can't sue a race of people, you have to bring your suit against a specific entity - be it a government, corporation, association, individual or any combination of the above. I mean, who is going to defend, or pay? The first jewish person the process server runs into on the day? Secondly, I think that a statute of limitations applies on simple plundering pretty much everywhere - only capital crimes are ever excluded, and the exclusions vary too much to be useful. Thirdly, none of the people who are being asked to answer for this crime actually committed this crime. The accused have been dead for thousands of years. Even if stupendous discoveries of incontrovertible evidence was suddenly discovered, it's not going to point at anyone around today... What if your gradfather, knowing that he and my grandfather are both near death, were to rob my grandfather buy gold with the money and put it into an offshore bank under your name. Further more he writes in his journal that he did this. No one is around any more who was originaly involved. Now what if it was your great grandfather and the only way you were to recover it was that he made sure you (who was not yet born) got the journal, so you would know where to get your gold. Now what if it was his father, or his father before him? Where does one draw the line? Well, can we say that the *maximum* for statute of limitations is 1000 years? 2000? 3000? What figure would you set? If it's 1000 years, then clearly in *this* case, the statute of limitations has been passed. Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Decline in SF?
Chad Cooper wrote: snip Frankly I have a confession - I have not read any new sci-fi, other than Brin for about a year. I am looking for good recommendations. Would anyone on the list have any ideas for a good book to read :-) (Please limit your suggestion to one per person. - thank you) --- In general: any Hugo winner. Specific:Evolution by Stephen Baxter George A ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Decline in SF?
Dan wrote: snip Which people are you talking about? The main complaint on UseNet has been that nothing happens but sniffing and folding of arms across one's bosom for page after page after page. Winter's Heart has as many pages (to with 5) of Path of Daggers. The type set is slightly larger (39 vs. 37 lines per page), but that doesn't afford a factor of two. - Case in point: Jordan ain't SF. George A ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Decline in SF?
Frankly I have a confession - I have not read any new sci-fi, other than
Brin for about a year. I am looking for good recommendations. Would anyone
on the list have any ideas for a good book to read :-) (Please limit your
suggestion to one per person. - thank you)
His Dark Materials (trilogy: The Golden Compass {Northern Lights in the UK},
The Subtle Knife, The Amber Spyglass) by Philip Pullman.
Tom Beck
www.prydonians.org
www.mercerjewishsingles.org
I always knew I'd see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed I'd see the
last. - Dr Jerry Pournelle
___
http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Misplaced mail, interesting neighbor, snake
On 11 Sep 2003 at 9:01, Russell Chapman wrote: Andrew Crystall wrote: Grass snakes, on the other hand, are common just round here, and I've been bitten by several including one especially large seven inch example. Ow. Phhbbbt... Seven inches is the size of the fangs on our snakes... :-) I'm curious about being bitten - (Being bitten by a snake in Aus tends to be a one-off thing...) Do these snakes actually inject poison? What's the physiological reaction like? I suppose Brits have a whole different psyche to Aussies when it comes to snakes, but the idea of being bitten by more than one snake just fills me with fear... As I said, the only poisenous snake is the adder, and there's nothing like it's usual teratory arround here. I go for jump up, yow, and run for the tap to stop bleeding... (grass snake bites are quite deep, and they take a while to stop bleeding. Think really bad papercut..) Our Grass Snakes are usually 3-4 inches long, green and only bite if you're trying to say toss em out your garden with a rake. Andy Dawn Falcon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Scouted: The Ultimate Roleplaying Purity Score
John Horn wrote: I made a somewhat passable carving of the state of New Jersey out of Ivory when I was in school. Must be something that was done in a lot of different schools. Ronn! replied: Bet you're glad you didn't grow up in Hawaii. Or even Alaska. Colorado or Wyoming, OTOH . . . Even Kansas isn't so bad. Just make a rectangle and break off a corner... Reggie Bautista Chewed Off by Rats Maru GSV Or Was That The Missouri River? Maybe River Rats Class _ Try MSN Messenger 6.0 with integrated webcam functionality! http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_webcam ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: 2003 NFL Preview
Bryon Daly wrote: Doesn't everyone hate the Raiders? ;-) You mean Kansas City isn't the only city where you can by Raider Hater t-shirts and sweatshirts? Reggie Bautista GO CHIEFS! Maru _ Express yourself with MSN Messenger 6.0 -- download now! http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_general ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Scouted: The South Will Rise Again!
--- Jon Gabriel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] snippage throughout [Russell I think?] For someone to want to restore a men only institution could well be a desire to return to misogyny, but it might not. I'm not sure that we should immediately assume they're just a bunch of scumbag racists. And sexists. And almost certainly anti-Semites. I can't expect someone in Australia to understand the dynamic of the American South, just as I can't be expected to understand Australian social dynamics. Let me assure you, the men proposing to start this new Southern Military Institute are definitely racist and sexist, and based on what I know of similar people, I have no doubt they harbor anti-Jewish feelings too. *general noises of agreement* These institutions prided themselves on hating everybody who wasn't a southern gentleman, which included (at various times) Blacks, Jews, Latins, Catholics, women, Muslims, immigrants, Asians, the Irish, etc., etc. I doubt their intentions are honorable, and there's a lot of historical precedent to back you up. While I mostly agree with these points [my qualifications for generalizing about Southern maledom include 13 years of living in Louisiana and 8 in Texas (I'm not counting childhood years in the latter case, which would bring the total to 13 also)], I do think there are some who _would_ enter such an institute with honorable intentions -- they might become sorely disillusioned and leave when the nastiness of the majority manifested. Worse, they could succumb (?sp) to the uglinessbut I don't really think that single-gender groups are a bad thing (although a sister-or-brother group is a good idea, as already pointed out previously). Discrimination is vile in all its forms, even that which masquerades as ethnocentrism. Agreed. Debbi who never gets up on the wrong side of the stall herself, oh, n/\/` (that's supposed to be a lightning-bolt :} ) __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Scouted: The South Will Rise Again!
There was a very funny book called _Andrew the Big Deal_ (juvenile fiction), in which the geeky Air Force brat discovers that one of his new classmates is a Chinese descendent of Robert E. Lee, and yelps I mean, the South will rise again Ma'am! as he's extracting himself from an elderly lady's rosebushes... OK, it doesn't translate well, but it was a good book for a frequently-transplanted geeky kid to read herself - the episode with Grover the toad and the naming of the mealworms was hysterical. Debbi Guess You Had To Have Read It Yourself Maru :) __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Decline in SF?
Chad Cooper wrote: I would agree. I find it very hard to find good sci-fi that strikes me in the same way as say Pournelle, Asimov, Heinlein, Poul or Niven (and more recently Brin :-)). I think this is pure nonsense. Generations come, generations go. We are all fans of a past generation of science fiction. Probably our kids are shaping the next generation of science fiction, something that might look as horrible to us as our science fiction looked to our parents. I lost a quote that dealt with this phenomenon: someone was complaining about the young people, with all complains that we heard our parents say about us, and that we say about our kids. It was dated from before Christ, IIRC. Alberto Monteiro ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Farewell to the Werewolves of London
On Tuesday, Sep 9, 2003, at 21:37 America/New_York, G. D. Akin wrote: John Garcia wrote Apologies if this has been posted already Warren Zevon died on Sunday past from lung cancer. New York Times obituary at http://www.nytimes.com/2003/09/09/arts/music/09ZEVO.html Maybe Letterman will re-broadcast the show he did with Zevon a few months ago. --- On Letterman's Tuesday Show, after his usual short opening monologe, Letterman gave a very moving, heartfelt goodbye to Warren Zevon. Very well done, and he did show part of Zevon's last appearance--when he knew he was dying. May not be precise quotes below, but close. Letterman: Because of all this, is there anything you know about life and death that I don't know. Zevon: ...you should enjoy every sandwich. George A Ah, classic Zevon. john ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Decline in SF?
Chad Cooper wrote: I am looking for good recommendations. Would anyone on the list have any ideas for a good book to read :-) (Please limit your suggestion to one per person. - thank you) Simmons' Illium - in hardcover now. Doug About 60 pages into it, so far so good ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Scouted: The South Will Rise Again!
From: Deborah Harrell [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Killer Bs Discussion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Scouted: The South Will Rise Again! Date: Wed, 10 Sep 2003 17:28:09 -0700 (PDT) There was a very funny book called _Andrew the Big Deal_ (juvenile fiction), in which the geeky Air Force brat discovers that one of his new classmates is a Chinese descendent of Robert E. Lee, and yelps I mean, the South will rise again Ma'am! as he's extracting himself from an elderly lady's rosebushes... OK, it doesn't translate well, but it was a good book for a frequently-transplanted geeky kid to read herself - the episode with Grover the toad and the naming of the mealworms was hysterical. Debbi Guess You Had To Have Read It Yourself Maru :) Wow, I remember reading and enjoying that book!!! I must either still have it somewhere on my shelf or it's at my mom's house collecting dust. :-D Jon Le Blog: http://zarq.livejournal.com _ Use custom emotions -- try MSN Messenger 6.0! http://www.msnmessenger-download.com/tracking/reach_emoticon ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Decline in SF?
--- Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which people are you talking about? The main complaint on UseNet has been that nothing happens but sniffing and folding of arms across one's bosom for page after page after page. Winter's Heart has as many pages (to with 5) of Path of Daggers. The type set is slightly larger (39 vs. 37 lines per page), but that doesn't afford a factor of two. Dan M. And _nothing_ happened. It was ridiculous. I cannot think of a _single_ plot point of any significance that occurred in the entire book. Heck, I can't think of a single plot point from the entire book. I can't remember the last time I was so disappointed by a book. = Gautam Mukunda [EMAIL PROTECTED] Freedom is not free http://www.mukunda.blogspot.com __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Decline in SF?
The Fool wrote: He laments on how long Jordan's books are, he knows its pulp, but he reads it anyway. These newer ones aren't long enough. After Crown of swords every single book has been 1/2 the size of previous books. That's why a lot of people are whining about the new books. They are really only half books. Long ain't the problem. The problem is they suck. The first one was great, but they became less and less substantial until by the time I quit reading them (either book 6 or 16, it doesn't much matter) they were boring as hell. I always thought that he should have ended that series and done a prequel series - the historical references he makes are intriguing. Too bad, there was a lot of potential there. Doug ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Decline in SF?
On Wed, Sep 10, 2003 at 07:54:24PM -0700, Gautam Mukunda wrote: And _nothing_ happened. It was ridiculous. I cannot think of a _single_ plot point of any significance that occurred in the entire book. Heck, I can't think of a single plot point from the entire book. I can't remember the last time I was so disappointed by a book. If you prefer quality to quantity, go for George R. R. Martin. He'll release no book before its time... -- Erik Reuter http://www.erikreuter.net/ ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
RE: Decline in SF?
From: Kevin Tarr [EMAIL PROTECTED] Over 1,000 pages of thrills, spills, vicious aliens and noble humans. I found Battlefield Earth un-put-downable. Neil Gaiman Did Neil Gaiman really say that about Battlefield Earth? He's not a Scientologist, is he? I read BE when it first came out, back in high school, and remember enjoying it enough to recommend it to two friends (though definitely not enjoying it as much as Gaiman apparently did). Both of those friends quit reading it partway through (too boring!) and told me they'd never listen to my recommendations again. _ Get 10MB of e-mail storage! Sign up for Hotmail Extra Storage. http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Dastardly spammer
From: Nick Arnett [EMAIL PROTECTED] Wish there was more to the story, but not yet. I can't even quite figure out where to report this spammer, since he's going through proxy servers. I guess there needs to be proxy server black hole list. You said this was effectively a DOS attack, and DOS attacks are illegal, aren't they? Does the spammer's home city have a police computer crime division? Perhaps the FBI? If you describe the attack as by hackers rather than spammers and put some high dollar figure on the damages, you might actually get some law enforcement response. Law enforcement seems to tend to be rather overzealous in persuing computer crime in some instances. _ Need more e-mail storage? Get 10MB with Hotmail Extra Storage. http://join.msn.com/?PAGE=features/es ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Decline in SF?
Gautam Mukunda wrote: --- Dan Minette [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Which people are you talking about? The main complaint on UseNet has been that nothing happens but sniffing and folding of arms across one's bosom for page after page after page. Winter's Heart has as many pages (to with 5) of Path of Daggers. The type set is slightly larger (39 vs. 37 lines per page), but that doesn't afford a factor of two. Dan M. And _nothing_ happened. It was ridiculous. I cannot think of a _single_ plot point of any significance that occurred in the entire book. Heck, I can't think of a single plot point from the entire book. I can't remember the last time I was so disappointed by a book. See, that's the sort of comment that helped reinforce my being off fantasy for a few years. :) Thank goodness for Elizabeth Moon If you want a *fantasy* recommendation, I recommend the books in the Deed of Paksinarrion (sp?) trilogy, and the 2 prequels, as well. For SF recommendations, can't really recommend anything *new*, as I'm working through the backlog of paperbacks acquired before we moved last year, but my mother has really been enjoying the James White Sector General books I have. She read a few of the stories in the 1960s, and now seems to be working hard to get caught up. It wouldn't surprise me in the least if she had *all* of them finished before the end of the weekend. (She stopped reading SF when I was born. I figure I at *least* owe her helping her have access to a series she enjoyed a bit of before then.) Julia ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Decline in SF?
Erik Reuter snip If you prefer quality to quantity, go for George R. R. Martin. He'll release no book before its time... As evidenced by his A Feast for Crows being shifted from a September '03 to a Spring '04 release date. George A ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Decline in SF?
Bryon Daly wrote Over 1,000 pages of thrills, spills, vicious aliens and noble humans. I found Battlefield Earth un-put-downable. - Neil Gaiman Did Neil Gaiman really say that about Battlefield Earth? He's not a Scientologist, is he? I read BE when it first came out, back in high school, and remember enjoying it enough to recommend it to two friends (though definitely not enjoying it as much as Gaiman apparently did). Both of those friends quit reading it partway through (too boring!) and told me they'd never listen to my recommendations again. --- I agree with Neil Gaiman and Bryon. BE is pure SF, a fine book to read; I've read it 3 or 4 times and probably will again. 'Tis a shame it was made into such a woefully poor movie (and only half the book). George A ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
Re: Decline in SF?
Doug Pensinger wrote snip Long ain't the problem. The problem is they suck. The first one was great, but they became less and less substantial until by the time I quit reading them (either book 6 or 16, it doesn't much matter) they were boring as hell. I always thought that he should have ended that series and done a prequel series - the historical references he makes are intriguing. Too bad, there was a lot of potential there. - A few months back, one the of the reviewers in Locus was lamenting the length of these epic fantasies and, by implication, the length of the epics. Close quote: Reader:Oh, boy! Another 1000 pages in my favorite universe by my favorite author. Reviewer:Another 1000 pages of the same old stuff. George A ___ http://www.mccmedia.com/mailman/listinfo/brin-l
