Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
I would add my 2c: comments (first one moderated so we wont have how do i? comments ie - only tips etc) on manual.cakephp.org (ala php.net or something like http://www.djangobook.com/comment-help/) as for the wiki - we all know how it looked - it was really outdated. No one was mainataining it - it probably would be a smaller problem right now... greets, PS: i would go for some Creative Commons license ;) On Jun 19, 10:24 pm, Dérico Filho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Anderson, That's why I posted before: I plan to talk to CakePHP core team in order to offer the tool I made for commenting to be hosted on manual.cakephp.org... If they refuse the offer, surely I'll make it available on some sort of mirroring system... Thus it would be hosted either on cirello.org or cakephp.nu... I haven't spoken to them yet because I am working on the tool to improve its robustness. I don't want to provoke a fork... I just want to be able to enhance the available docs with common knowledge of all developers... I got very crossed when Mr. Woodworth said For one, you did not talk to anyone on the development team before doing this. Hey... please guys, visitwww.cakephp.organd find a SINGLE LINK named CONTACT US or something similar... There's none... and by then, I did not know that GWOO was one of the founders of Cake Foundation. I POSTED here just the beginning of the idea. I *wanted* to talk to anyone of the core team, first. So much I did, that I filed a Documentation Enhancement in trac's. In the day following I opened this thread. Dérico On Jun 19, 3:58 pm, John David Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 19, 2007, at 11:43 AM, Dérico Filho wrote: Hi Jonathan, I am not sure... But I think the CakePHP Manual and CakePHP logo are intellectual property of Cake Software Foundation, which is the back- company of CakePHP. CakePHP is MIT Licensed, however that's not the case of their documentation and logo... But that's OK, mr. Woodworth told me they are going to make a similar application soon... Thus we'll be very well served. Rights and junk aside - its really better we have a central clearing house for cakephp-related information. If we have a bunch of side efforts, its harder to get anything of consequence done, much less get everyone to it. If you've got some great ideas for how to improve cakephp please come and contact us! If we can coordinate efforts, that will streamline the way information is disseminated, and avoid duplicate efforts. -- John Dérico On Jun 19, 12:43 pm, Jonathan Langevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How was the intellectual property misused? Not arguing or doubting, just wondering On 6/19/07, Dérico Filho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, everyone! I've been contacted by Mr. Woodworth, President for Cake Software Foundation. I seems I misused Cake's Intellectual Property. I play by the rules, and therefore, I had to shutdown the free-to-comment version of the manual. I managed to talk to Mr. Woodworth and we are on talks to see whether this initiative might be used for benefit for Cake Software Foundation and its community of developers. Until then, I can only add I am sorry. Dérico Filho On Jun 18, 1:32 pm, Dérico Filho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also... the comment area was too short in the database... Just changed it to store longer texts. On 18 jun, 13:07, Sonic Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Out with ya! Sonic- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
For all: I would high recommend for everyone to take sometime off and think about documentation. First of all, free to comment documentation is win-win for the company behind cakephp/the community, look at Php.net it is the reason it worked, the main site is the documentation, we should also look at django project. http://www.djangobook.com/ 1. PHP.net manual comments are one of the best resource for solutions and answers. 2. Django book project, well i am sure every one will have to agree the inline-comments just worked. it won't distract the main content. cakePHP has been long regard as *late of documentation*, which i don't agree, it is just some really valuable information sitting all over the internet. 2. wiki ending up replaced by bakery for good. 3. official manual is good but still lacking. 4. The Api htmlHelper, formHelper, Model.. etc, they are all pretty sweet, but it happen quite often to me the API only tells us to pass in option array as second parameter without identifying all available options. take a look at mootools project http://docs.mootools.net/, you will expect to find all available options to pass-in to that array. We are lack of good management and organization, User of CakePHP are well disciplined software coders. how hard it is to implement free inline-commenting on official manual. give access to passionate and responsible coders to join the documentation team. someday we can finally *USE* the API as a useful resource with all options identified Sorry for the rant, hope you understand it is for the good. Thanks for reading, until next time On Jun 18, 12:25 am, Dérico Filho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Jonathan... I've made a Linux Shell Script using sed which replaces HTML in the page's bottom lines to a Javascript which runs the comment system... Thus, when a new release of the manual is shipped, I just have to download it, run the script and upload the new version... Now the remarks, I think I will insert a version tag on them... So when, the Manual version changes, people will know to which version the remark would refer to. Anyway... There will always be a work of cleaning up the flames, the useless comments or too old to make sense anymore... www.cakemanual.org, perhaps? LOL Uldérico On Jun 16, 11:05 pm, Jonathan Langevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: nice addition, just a shame comments aren't available on manual.cakephp.org it seems that your version of the manual deserves it's own domain btw :-) out of curiosity, how will you keep the manual updated properly, and still maintain the comments properly? On 6/16/07, Dérico Filho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Everyone, I've made available at my site a free-to-comment version of CakePHP Manual... Please, feel free to access it. http://www.cirello.org/cakephp-manual/ Uldérico- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
On Jun 20, 11:34 am, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: For all: I would high recommend for everyone to take sometime off and think about documentation. I thought about it, thanks for the tip. Can this thread die now please? Cheers, AD --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
Hi, everyone! I've been contacted by Mr. Woodworth, President for Cake Software Foundation. I seems I misused Cake's Intellectual Property. I play by the rules, and therefore, I had to shutdown the free-to-comment version of the manual. I managed to talk to Mr. Woodworth and we are on talks to see whether this initiative might be used for benefit for Cake Software Foundation and its community of developers. Until then, I can only add I am sorry. Dérico Filho On Jun 18, 1:32 pm, Dérico Filho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also... the comment area was too short in the database... Just changed it to store longer texts. On 18 jun, 13:07, Sonic Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Out with ya! Sonic- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
Hi Jonathan, I am not sure... But I think the CakePHP Manual and CakePHP logo are intellectual property of Cake Software Foundation, which is the back- company of CakePHP. CakePHP is MIT Licensed, however that's not the case of their documentation and logo... But that's OK, mr. Woodworth told me they are going to make a similar application soon... Thus we'll be very well served. Dérico On Jun 19, 12:43 pm, Jonathan Langevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How was the intellectual property misused? Not arguing or doubting, just wondering On 6/19/07, Dérico Filho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, everyone! I've been contacted by Mr. Woodworth, President for Cake Software Foundation. I seems I misused Cake's Intellectual Property. I play by the rules, and therefore, I had to shutdown the free-to-comment version of the manual. I managed to talk to Mr. Woodworth and we are on talks to see whether this initiative might be used for benefit for Cake Software Foundation and its community of developers. Until then, I can only add I am sorry. Dérico Filho On Jun 18, 1:32 pm, Dérico Filho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also... the comment area was too short in the database... Just changed it to store longer texts. On 18 jun, 13:07, Sonic Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Out with ya! Sonic- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
On 6/19/07, Dérico Filho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Jonathan, I am not sure... But I think the CakePHP Manual and CakePHP logo are intellectual property of Cake Software Foundation, which is the back- company of CakePHP. CakePHP is MIT Licensed, however that's not the case of their documentation and logo... But that's OK, mr. Woodworth told me they are going to make a similar application soon... Thus we'll be very well served. The very idea of calling gwoo Mr. Woodworth makes me laugh out loud! -- Chris Hartjes Senior Developer Cake Development Corporation My motto for 2007: Just build it, damnit! @TheBallpark - http://www.littlehart.net/attheballpark @TheKeyboard - http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
Ah, I can understand logo, surprised about the documentation itself though. So maybe there should be a 3rd-party documentation effort, GPL licensed, so that other sites can host the documentation, as many do with php.net's docs On 6/19/07, Dérico Filho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Jonathan, I am not sure... But I think the CakePHP Manual and CakePHP logo are intellectual property of Cake Software Foundation, which is the back- company of CakePHP. CakePHP is MIT Licensed, however that's not the case of their documentation and logo... But that's OK, mr. Woodworth told me they are going to make a similar application soon... Thus we'll be very well served. Dérico On Jun 19, 12:43 pm, Jonathan Langevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How was the intellectual property misused? Not arguing or doubting, just wondering On 6/19/07, Dérico Filho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, everyone! I've been contacted by Mr. Woodworth, President for Cake Software Foundation. I seems I misused Cake's Intellectual Property. I play by the rules, and therefore, I had to shutdown the free-to-comment version of the manual. I managed to talk to Mr. Woodworth and we are on talks to see whether this initiative might be used for benefit for Cake Software Foundation and its community of developers. Until then, I can only add I am sorry. Dérico Filho On Jun 18, 1:32 pm, Dérico Filho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also... the comment area was too short in the database... Just changed it to store longer texts. On 18 jun, 13:07, Sonic Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Out with ya! Sonic- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
On Jun 19, 2007, at 11:58 AM, Jonathan Langevin wrote: Ah, I can understand logo, surprised about the documentation itself though. So maybe there should be a 3rd-party documentation effort, GPL licensed, so that other sites can host the documentation, as many do with php.net's docs What's the drawback with helping on the official docs? -- John --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
On Jun 19, 2007, at 11:43 AM, Dérico Filho wrote: Hi Jonathan, I am not sure... But I think the CakePHP Manual and CakePHP logo are intellectual property of Cake Software Foundation, which is the back- company of CakePHP. CakePHP is MIT Licensed, however that's not the case of their documentation and logo... But that's OK, mr. Woodworth told me they are going to make a similar application soon... Thus we'll be very well served. Rights and junk aside - its really better we have a central clearing house for cakephp-related information. If we have a bunch of side efforts, its harder to get anything of consequence done, much less get everyone to it. If you've got some great ideas for how to improve cakephp please come and contact us! If we can coordinate efforts, that will streamline the way information is disseminated, and avoid duplicate efforts. -- John Dérico On Jun 19, 12:43 pm, Jonathan Langevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How was the intellectual property misused? Not arguing or doubting, just wondering On 6/19/07, Dérico Filho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, everyone! I've been contacted by Mr. Woodworth, President for Cake Software Foundation. I seems I misused Cake's Intellectual Property. I play by the rules, and therefore, I had to shutdown the free-to-comment version of the manual. I managed to talk to Mr. Woodworth and we are on talks to see whether this initiative might be used for benefit for Cake Software Foundation and its community of developers. Until then, I can only add I am sorry. Dérico Filho On Jun 18, 1:32 pm, Dérico Filho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also... the comment area was too short in the database... Just changed it to store longer texts. On 18 jun, 13:07, Sonic Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Out with ya! Sonic- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
I agree a central location would be best, but to also avoid any legal issues, is why I suggested a 3rd party GPL effort On 6/19/07, John David Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 19, 2007, at 11:43 AM, Dérico Filho wrote: Hi Jonathan, I am not sure... But I think the CakePHP Manual and CakePHP logo are intellectual property of Cake Software Foundation, which is the back- company of CakePHP. CakePHP is MIT Licensed, however that's not the case of their documentation and logo... But that's OK, mr. Woodworth told me they are going to make a similar application soon... Thus we'll be very well served. Rights and junk aside - its really better we have a central clearing house for cakephp-related information. If we have a bunch of side efforts, its harder to get anything of consequence done, much less get everyone to it. If you've got some great ideas for how to improve cakephp please come and contact us! If we can coordinate efforts, that will streamline the way information is disseminated, and avoid duplicate efforts. -- John Dérico On Jun 19, 12:43 pm, Jonathan Langevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How was the intellectual property misused? Not arguing or doubting, just wondering On 6/19/07, Dérico Filho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, everyone! I've been contacted by Mr. Woodworth, President for Cake Software Foundation. I seems I misused Cake's Intellectual Property. I play by the rules, and therefore, I had to shutdown the free-to-comment version of the manual. I managed to talk to Mr. Woodworth and we are on talks to see whether this initiative might be used for benefit for Cake Software Foundation and its community of developers. Until then, I can only add I am sorry. Dérico Filho On Jun 18, 1:32 pm, Dérico Filho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also... the comment area was too short in the database... Just changed it to store longer texts. On 18 jun, 13:07, Sonic Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Out with ya! Sonic- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
On 6/19/07, Jonathan Langevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree a central location would be best, but to also avoid any legal issues, is why I suggested a 3rd party GPL effort So you seem to think that the CakePHP developers themselves (disclaimer: I am one of them) aren't capable of providing documentation? Why does a 3rd party need to get involved? -- Chris Hartjes Senior Developer Cake Development Corporation My motto for 2007: Just build it, damnit! @TheBallpark - http://www.littlehart.net/attheballpark @TheKeyboard - http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
I'm not saying the developers aren't capable of providing documentation. Docs for 1.1 are probably the nicest I've seen (although since the group convinced me to try 1.2, I've become very frustrated with 1.2's lack of docs). my comment wasn't intended to put down anyone, my thinking is to keep trademark and legalities separated from open-source documentation. think about it like this: if I were to develop an application using CakePHP, and redistribute the application + cake along with documentation, there would apparently be a legal issue, as the Manual is considered the intellectual property of the Cake Foundation, correct? so if there were a truly unencumbered documentation repository, this situation could be avoided. additionally, if cake documentation were to ever fall into disrepair, a new initiative could be started for the documentation without infringing on someone's intellectual property i'm not saying that developers should be excluded by any means, so please don't be offended by my remarks On 6/19/07, Chris Hartjes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/19/07, Jonathan Langevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree a central location would be best, but to also avoid any legal issues, is why I suggested a 3rd party GPL effort So you seem to think that the CakePHP developers themselves (disclaimer: I am one of them) aren't capable of providing documentation? Why does a 3rd party need to get involved? -- Chris Hartjes Senior Developer Cake Development Corporation My motto for 2007: Just build it, damnit! @TheBallpark - http://www.littlehart.net/attheballpark @TheKeyboard - http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
On Jun 19, 2007, at 1:24 PM, Jonathan Langevin wrote: I agree a central location would be best, but to also avoid any legal issues, is why I suggested a 3rd party GPL effort How many third-party efforts would you suggest? :) I still don't see how diluting the effort in many parallel projects helps anyone. -- John On 6/19/07, John David Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 19, 2007, at 11:43 AM, Dérico Filho wrote: Hi Jonathan, I am not sure... But I think the CakePHP Manual and CakePHP logo are intellectual property of Cake Software Foundation, which is the back- company of CakePHP. CakePHP is MIT Licensed, however that's not the case of their documentation and logo... But that's OK, mr. Woodworth told me they are going to make a similar application soon... Thus we'll be very well served. Rights and junk aside - its really better we have a central clearing house for cakephp-related information. If we have a bunch of side efforts, its harder to get anything of consequence done, much less get everyone to it. If you've got some great ideas for how to improve cakephp please come and contact us! If we can coordinate efforts, that will streamline the way information is disseminated, and avoid duplicate efforts. -- John Dérico On Jun 19, 12:43 pm, Jonathan Langevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How was the intellectual property misused? Not arguing or doubting, just wondering On 6/19/07, Dérico Filho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, everyone! I've been contacted by Mr. Woodworth, President for Cake Software Foundation. I seems I misused Cake's Intellectual Property. I play by the rules, and therefore, I had to shutdown the free-to-comment version of the manual. I managed to talk to Mr. Woodworth and we are on talks to see whether this initiative might be used for benefit for Cake Software Foundation and its community of developers. Until then, I can only add I am sorry. Dérico Filho On Jun 18, 1:32 pm, Dérico Filho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also... the comment area was too short in the database... Just changed it to store longer texts. On 18 jun, 13:07, Sonic Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Out with ya! Sonic- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
I'm not suggesting multiple efforts, maybe 1 effort that is supported by cake, with no infringement :-) On 6/19/07, John David Anderson (_psychic_) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 19, 2007, at 1:24 PM, Jonathan Langevin wrote: I agree a central location would be best, but to also avoid any legal issues, is why I suggested a 3rd party GPL effort How many third-party efforts would you suggest? :) I still don't see how diluting the effort in many parallel projects helps anyone. -- John On 6/19/07, John David Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 19, 2007, at 11:43 AM, Dérico Filho wrote: Hi Jonathan, I am not sure... But I think the CakePHP Manual and CakePHP logo are intellectual property of Cake Software Foundation, which is the back- company of CakePHP. CakePHP is MIT Licensed, however that's not the case of their documentation and logo... But that's OK, mr. Woodworth told me they are going to make a similar application soon... Thus we'll be very well served. Rights and junk aside - its really better we have a central clearing house for cakephp-related information. If we have a bunch of side efforts, its harder to get anything of consequence done, much less get everyone to it. If you've got some great ideas for how to improve cakephp please come and contact us! If we can coordinate efforts, that will streamline the way information is disseminated, and avoid duplicate efforts. -- John Dérico On Jun 19, 12:43 pm, Jonathan Langevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How was the intellectual property misused? Not arguing or doubting, just wondering On 6/19/07, Dérico Filho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, everyone! I've been contacted by Mr. Woodworth, President for Cake Software Foundation. I seems I misused Cake's Intellectual Property. I play by the rules, and therefore, I had to shutdown the free-to-comment version of the manual. I managed to talk to Mr. Woodworth and we are on talks to see whether this initiative might be used for benefit for Cake Software Foundation and its community of developers. Until then, I can only add I am sorry. Dérico Filho On Jun 18, 1:32 pm, Dérico Filho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also... the comment area was too short in the database... Just changed it to store longer texts. On 18 jun, 13:07, Sonic Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Out with ya! Sonic- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
Hi Chris! I just wanted to be polite, not posh. :-) Well, he's the president... I was affraid of being uncivil towards him. :-) Uldérico On Jun 19, 2:52 pm, Chris Hartjes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/19/07, Dérico Filho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Jonathan, I am not sure... But I think the CakePHP Manual and CakePHP logo are intellectual property of Cake Software Foundation, which is the back- company of CakePHP. CakePHP is MIT Licensed, however that's not the case of their documentation and logo... But that's OK, mr. Woodworth told me they are going to make a similar application soon... Thus we'll be very well served. The very idea of calling gwoo Mr. Woodworth makes me laugh out loud! -- Chris Hartjes Senior Developer Cake Development Corporation My motto for 2007: Just build it, damnit! @TheBallpark -http://www.littlehart.net/attheballpark @TheKeyboard -http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
Hi Anderson, That's why I posted before: I plan to talk to CakePHP core team in order to offer the tool I made for commenting to be hosted on manual.cakephp.org... If they refuse the offer, surely I'll make it available on some sort of mirroring system... Thus it would be hosted either on cirello.org or cakephp.nu... I haven't spoken to them yet because I am working on the tool to improve its robustness. I don't want to provoke a fork... I just want to be able to enhance the available docs with common knowledge of all developers... I got very crossed when Mr. Woodworth said For one, you did not talk to anyone on the development team before doing this. Hey... please guys, visit www.cakephp.org and find a SINGLE LINK named CONTACT US or something similar... There's none... and by then, I did not know that GWOO was one of the founders of Cake Foundation. I POSTED here just the beginning of the idea. I *wanted* to talk to anyone of the core team, first. So much I did, that I filed a Documentation Enhancement in trac's. In the day following I opened this thread. Dérico On Jun 19, 3:58 pm, John David Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 19, 2007, at 11:43 AM, Dérico Filho wrote: Hi Jonathan, I am not sure... But I think the CakePHP Manual and CakePHP logo are intellectual property of Cake Software Foundation, which is the back- company of CakePHP. CakePHP is MIT Licensed, however that's not the case of their documentation and logo... But that's OK, mr. Woodworth told me they are going to make a similar application soon... Thus we'll be very well served. Rights and junk aside - its really better we have a central clearing house for cakephp-related information. If we have a bunch of side efforts, its harder to get anything of consequence done, much less get everyone to it. If you've got some great ideas for how to improve cakephp please come and contact us! If we can coordinate efforts, that will streamline the way information is disseminated, and avoid duplicate efforts. -- John Dérico On Jun 19, 12:43 pm, Jonathan Langevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How was the intellectual property misused? Not arguing or doubting, just wondering On 6/19/07, Dérico Filho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, everyone! I've been contacted by Mr. Woodworth, President for Cake Software Foundation. I seems I misused Cake's Intellectual Property. I play by the rules, and therefore, I had to shutdown the free-to-comment version of the manual. I managed to talk to Mr. Woodworth and we are on talks to see whether this initiative might be used for benefit for Cake Software Foundation and its community of developers. Until then, I can only add I am sorry. Dérico Filho On Jun 18, 1:32 pm, Dérico Filho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also... the comment area was too short in the database... Just changed it to store longer texts. On 18 jun, 13:07, Sonic Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Out with ya! Sonic- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
Hi Chris, I think the point here is not the ability of Cake Core Team providing documentation or not. You guys are excellent and have been doing a great job. The point is: Why can't I deal with the documentation on the same terms I do with the software? Officially the MIT License allows me to host, copy, modify and distribute (under few restrictions) the CakePHP source code. Why Documentation is not treated on the same way? That's why, I believe, Jonathan suggested a 3rd Party GPL'd licenced documentation. If it were GPL or MIT, I could have done what I did without having trouble with Cake Foundation through the person of its president Mr. Woodworth. I do not believe that a 3rd Party effort is the solution. I believe we must stick with Cake Foundation and it's current effort for documentation the awesome CakePHP. Dérico On Jun 19, 4:29 pm, Chris Hartjes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/19/07, Jonathan Langevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree a central location would be best, but to also avoid any legal issues, is why I suggested a 3rd party GPL effort So you seem to think that the CakePHP developers themselves (disclaimer: I am one of them) aren't capable of providing documentation? Why does a 3rd party need to get involved? -- Chris Hartjes Senior Developer Cake Development Corporation My motto for 2007: Just build it, damnit! @TheBallpark -http://www.littlehart.net/attheballpark @TheKeyboard -http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
Hi John, I don't see a matter of diluting the energy among several projects... But people that does not feel comfortable with restrictive licences (or restrictive behaviour of companies that hold their particular licences, which is my case) might want help only the free initiatives. Perhaps it is not open to discussion within Cake Core Team, but surely you guys should consider the idea of releasing the documentation with a licence that do not give people the fright I had, so as to allow them to modify and to host (taking the responsabilities for it, of course) with the modifications. Anyway, I repeat. I don't think starting a third and new documentation effort is the solution. Let us not fork. Dérico On Jun 19, 4:45 pm, John David Anderson (_psychic_) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 19, 2007, at 1:24 PM, Jonathan Langevin wrote: I agree a central location would be best, but to also avoid any legal issues, is why I suggested a 3rd party GPL effort How many third-party efforts would you suggest? :) I still don't see how diluting the effort in many parallel projects helps anyone. -- John On 6/19/07, John David Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 19, 2007, at 11:43 AM, Dérico Filho wrote: Hi Jonathan, I am not sure... But I think the CakePHP Manual and CakePHP logo are intellectual property of Cake Software Foundation, which is the back- company of CakePHP. CakePHP is MIT Licensed, however that's not the case of their documentation and logo... But that's OK, mr. Woodworth told me they are going to make a similar application soon... Thus we'll be very well served. Rights and junk aside - its really better we have a central clearing house for cakephp-related information. If we have a bunch of side efforts, its harder to get anything of consequence done, much less get everyone to it. If you've got some great ideas for how to improve cakephp please come and contact us! If we can coordinate efforts, that will streamline the way information is disseminated, and avoid duplicate efforts. -- John Dérico On Jun 19, 12:43 pm, Jonathan Langevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How was the intellectual property misused? Not arguing or doubting, just wondering On 6/19/07, Dérico Filho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, everyone! I've been contacted by Mr. Woodworth, President for Cake Software Foundation. I seems I misused Cake's Intellectual Property. I play by the rules, and therefore, I had to shutdown the free-to-comment version of the manual. I managed to talk to Mr. Woodworth and we are on talks to see whether this initiative might be used for benefit for Cake Software Foundation and its community of developers. Until then, I can only add I am sorry. Dérico Filho On Jun 18, 1:32 pm, Dérico Filho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also... the comment area was too short in the database... Just changed it to store longer texts. On 18 jun, 13:07, Sonic Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Out with ya! Sonic- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
See http://jquery.com/plugins/ This was a team effort from people outside the core team, that has been brought under the official site. It sits on top of a customized Drupal install, and provides an excellent resource for plugins, not just downloading but commenting, examples and scores. I'm working on a small project just now that is based on the design of this API site (http://jquery.bassistance.de/api-browser/) but sitting on top of a CakePHP application. It's aim is to import XML data from a documenter like Doxygen, and provide it as a view in the application. The app itself handles navigation, as well as addable examples (within the content of the API document), comments and source code view. The app also aims to output semantic markup, as well as alternative output (RSS, JSON, REST) I'm sure it could easily handle documentation added via a backend. You can see a screenshot here (http://tinyurl.com/3ypx94) currently I don't have more than the basic models, controllers and views for the app. But maybe a group project? I'm also not suggesting we take away document writing away from the core team, but this way it can be peer controlled and would provide a great way to track and develop code - early adopter would love that! On 6/19/07, Chris Hartjes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/19/07, Jonathan Langevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree a central location would be best, but to also avoid any legal issues, is why I suggested a 3rd party GPL effort So you seem to think that the CakePHP developers themselves (disclaimer: I am one of them) aren't capable of providing documentation? Why does a 3rd party need to get involved? -- Chris Hartjes Senior Developer Cake Development Corporation My motto for 2007: Just build it, damnit! @TheBallpark - http://www.littlehart.net/attheballpark @TheKeyboard - http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard -- Tane Piper http://digitalspaghetti.tooum.net This email is: [ ] blogable [ x ] ask first [ ] private --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
My only commnents: I wish we had a Wiki. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
Hi Tane, I've opened the link... Heed your link is almost exactly what Bakery and Cakeforge nowadays already do. But I understood the point, a outside effort that would meet the project documentation needs. I do not think it's the CakePHP case... CakePHP has active effort on documentation... The problems lays on what you *may* or *may not* do with the documentation. Dérico On Jun 19, 5:49 pm, Tane Piper [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Seehttp://jquery.com/plugins/ This was a team effort from people outside the core team, that has been brought under the official site. It sits on top of a customized Drupal install, and provides an excellent resource for plugins, not just downloading but commenting, examples and scores. I'm working on a small project just now that is based on the design of this API site (http://jquery.bassistance.de/api-browser/) but sitting on top of a CakePHP application. It's aim is to import XML data from a documenter like Doxygen, and provide it as a view in the application. The app itself handles navigation, as well as addable examples (within the content of the API document), comments and source code view. The app also aims to output semantic markup, as well as alternative output (RSS, JSON, REST) I'm sure it could easily handle documentation added via a backend. You can see a screenshot here (http://tinyurl.com/3ypx94) currently I don't have more than the basic models, controllers and views for the app. But maybe a group project? I'm also not suggesting we take away document writing away from the core team, but this way it can be peer controlled and would provide a great way to track and develop code - early adopter would love that! On 6/19/07, Chris Hartjes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/19/07, Jonathan Langevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree a central location would be best, but to also avoid any legal issues, is why I suggested a 3rd party GPL effort So you seem to think that the CakePHP developers themselves (disclaimer: I am one of them) aren't capable of providing documentation? Why does a 3rd party need to get involved? -- Chris Hartjes Senior Developer Cake Development Corporation My motto for 2007: Just build it, damnit! @TheBallpark -http://www.littlehart.net/attheballpark @TheKeyboard -http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard -- Tane Piperhttp://digitalspaghetti.tooum.net This email is: [ ] blogable [ x ] ask first [ ] private- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
I wonder, why Wiki was replaced by Bakery? On Jun 19, 5:52 pm, rtconner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My only commnents: I wish we had a Wiki. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
On 6/19/07, rtconner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My only commnents: I wish we had a Wiki. Are you volunteering to maintain it? My impression was that last time CakePHP had a wiki that it was terrible and didn't contribute anything. Maintaining a wiki is a critically important job. -- Chris Hartjes Senior Developer Cake Development Corporation My motto for 2007: Just build it, damnit! @TheBallpark - http://www.littlehart.net/attheballpark @TheKeyboard - http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
On Jun 19, 2007, at 1:42 PM, Jonathan Langevin wrote: I'm not saying the developers aren't capable of providing documentation. Docs for 1.1 are probably the nicest I've seen (although since the group convinced me to try 1.2, I've become very frustrated with 1.2 's lack of docs). my comment wasn't intended to put down anyone, my thinking is to keep trademark and legalities separated from open-source documentation. think about it like this: if I were to develop an application using CakePHP, and redistribute the application + cake along with documentation, there would apparently be a legal issue, as the Manual is considered the intellectual property of the Cake Foundation, correct? Why would you need to distribute the docs when they're already freely available? \so if there were a truly unencumbered documentation repository, this situation could be avoided. additionally, if cake documentation were to ever fall into disrepair, a new initiative could be started for the documentation without infringing on someone's intellectual property i'm not saying that developers should be excluded by any means, so please don't be offended by my remarks We're just trying to understand your concerns - please don't take disagreement as anything more than disagreement. :) -- John --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
I think you'll agree Chris that the CakePHP community has grown a lot recently, maybe there would be more people willing to take it on. There are certainly quite a few regulars on the IRC channel and here in the group. I for one would volunteer some time. On 6/19/07, Chris Hartjes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/19/07, rtconner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My only commnents: I wish we had a Wiki. Are you volunteering to maintain it? My impression was that last time CakePHP had a wiki that it was terrible and didn't contribute anything. Maintaining a wiki is a critically important job. -- Chris Hartjes Senior Developer Cake Development Corporation My motto for 2007: Just build it, damnit! @TheBallpark - http://www.littlehart.net/attheballpark @TheKeyboard - http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard -- Tane Piper http://digitalspaghetti.tooum.net This email is: [ ] blogable [ x ] ask first [ ] private --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
Hi John! Why would you need to distribute the docs when they're already freely available? Free - chmod 0444??? Free to read, you mean, I guess. :-) Let's us take a hypotetic project (not so hypothetic, because I am doing one with CakePHP). I make a Project using CakePHP. MIT Licence allows me to change it according to my needs. But my customer wants the documentation, oh NOT ONLY what I've done, but also the CakePHP and the modifications... Well, what I problem I got now, wouldn't you say? Mr. Woodworth told me the Documentation and the Logo is Cake Foundation's intellectual property! Alas, I will have to rewrite Cake's doc from the scratch, Oh nooo First, I can't produce an altered version of the manual and distribute it. Second, I can't also store the manual in the same CD of my project, I have to instruct my customer to read or download it from the Cake website. OK, stopping the sarcams now. You see the point? Or even, I want to make my own version of commented manual, I just cannot. Or for instance, I live in Brazil, people here simply don't talk english... I would like to provide them a version of commented manual with Portuguese comments, but this also is not allowed. I cannot do ANYTHING with CakePHP manual because it's Cake Software Foundation intellectual property. please! chmod 777 CAKEMANUAL. Uldérico On Jun 19, 6:03 pm, John David Anderson (_psychic_) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 19, 2007, at 1:42 PM, Jonathan Langevin wrote: I'm not saying the developers aren't capable of providing documentation. Docs for 1.1 are probably the nicest I've seen (although since the group convinced me to try 1.2, I've become very frustrated with 1.2 's lack of docs). my comment wasn't intended to put down anyone, my thinking is to keep trademark and legalities separated from open-source documentation. think about it like this: if I were to develop an application using CakePHP, and redistribute the application + cake along with documentation, there would apparently be a legal issue, as the Manual is considered the intellectual property of the Cake Foundation, correct? Why would you need to distribute the docs when they're already freely available? \so if there were a truly unencumbered documentation repository, this situation could be avoided. additionally, if cake documentation were to ever fall into disrepair, a new initiative could be started for the documentation without infringing on someone's intellectual property i'm not saying that developers should be excluded by any means, so please don't be offended by my remarks We're just trying to understand your concerns - please don't take disagreement as anything more than disagreement. :) -- John --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
On Jun 19, 3:03 pm, John David Anderson (_psychic_) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why would you need to distribute the docs when they're already freely available? Because they are, like the wiki apparently was, outdated. The manual is great, but there is a LOT of stuff in there that is out of date. And most of it has been addressed by bug submissions to trac.cakephp.org. Why are these bug reports ignored? Who knows, but all this complaining about the outdatedness of the wiki also applies to the current manual as it stands now. Honestly, Derico, if The Powers That Be are giving you the old stinkeye, then you could create something like what Pennypacker does for the Penny Arcade comic. It's a Firefox add-on that allows tagging and commenting of the Penny Arcade comics and writes that HTML directly to the Penny-Arcade.com website when you view the comics. You could do the same thing with the manual. Then, no one's license *ptoo* is getting infringed, and people can still comment and tag, etc. I highly encourage you to check it out: http://phasetwo.org/pennypacker/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
On Jun 19, 2007, at 3:32 PM, Dérico Filho wrote: Hi John! Why would you need to distribute the docs when they're already freely available? Free - chmod 0444??? Free to read, you mean, I guess. :-) Yes. There's a reason we don't allow everyone to post freely to an official CakePHP website. :) Let's us take a hypotetic project (not so hypothetic, because I am doing one with CakePHP). I make a Project using CakePHP. MIT Licence allows me to change it according to my needs. But my customer wants the documentation, oh NOT ONLY what I've done, but also the CakePHP and the modifications... Well, what I problem I got now, wouldn't you say? Mr. Woodworth told me the Documentation and the Logo is Cake Foundation's intellectual property! Alas, I will have to rewrite Cake's doc from the scratch, Oh nooo First, I can't produce an altered version of the manual and distribute it. IANAL, but I don't see the issue with you writing whatever you want about CakePHP, as long as you tell people you're not official, and who is. Secondly, is there a problem with handing this client a link to the existing manual, or a PDF of it? Second, I can't also store the manual in the same CD of my project, I have to instruct my customer to read or download it from the Cake website. ...which is probably more updated than a PDF on a CD... OK, stopping the sarcams now. You see the point? Or even, I want to make my own version of commented manual, I just cannot. I suppose you can, but you'd need to write your own content for it. But if everyone does that... Or for instance, I live in Brazil, people here simply don't talk english... I would like to provide them a version of commented manual with Portuguese comments, but this also is not allowed. We're working on that, as I've explained in another thread. If you like to help with that, let me know. I cannot do ANYTHING with CakePHP manual because it's Cake Software Foundation intellectual property. Why is that? So we can maintain a level of quality. Nothing is stopping you from making your own manual, as long as you write it yourself and don't make it appear as an official document. This is legal - that's why you see all these missing manual series on the bookshelves. I just don't think it's a good idea. please! chmod 777 CAKEMANUAL. That'll never happen because I expect a level of quality and accuracy that a wiki-type approach simply cannot (and did not) provide. I also think that creating your own version of the manual really isn't as productive as contributing to the official effort. --- John --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
On Jun 19, 2007, at 3:45 PM, Finster wrote: On Jun 19, 3:03 pm, John David Anderson (_psychic_) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why would you need to distribute the docs when they're already freely available? Because they are, like the wiki apparently was, outdated. The manual is great, but there is a LOT of stuff in there that is out of date. And most of it has been addressed by bug submissions to trac.cakephp.org. Why are these bug reports ignored? Who knows, but all this complaining about the outdatedness of the wiki also applies to the current manual as it stands now. Maybe it does, but there's a limited amount of resources helping out on the docs. Last month there was one person working on it. Thanks to some great people, that's now up to 5 or 6. I've made the decision to place most of our efforts towards the 1.2 manual rewrite. Maybe I'll have to rethink that, but I think we can limp along with what we've got until 1.2 comes out. -- John --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
Hi John! As I have stressed few threads ago, I do agree with you, we should not fork or split our efforts on documenting CakePHP. I am just worried about licensing issues, which would - at least in my thoughs - give a fright on independent initiatives; and availability of resources, such commenting and some sort of professional knowledge networking. I speak Portuguese, as mother tongue, and I would be very glad on joining you guys either producing documents in english as much as translating them into portuguese. Uldérico On 19 jun, 19:14, John David Anderson (_psychic_) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Jun 19, 2007, at 3:45 PM, Finster wrote: On Jun 19, 3:03 pm, John David Anderson (_psychic_) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why would you need to distribute the docs when they're already freely available? Because they are, like the wiki apparently was, outdated. The manual is great, but there is a LOT of stuff in there that is out of date. And most of it has been addressed by bug submissions to trac.cakephp.org. Why are these bug reports ignored? Who knows, but all this complaining about the outdatedness of the wiki also applies to the current manual as it stands now. Maybe it does, but there's a limited amount of resources helping out on the docs. Last month there was one person working on it. Thanks to some great people, that's now up to 5 or 6. I've made the decision to place most of our efforts towards the 1.2 manual rewrite. Maybe I'll have to rethink that, but I think we can limp along with what we've got until 1.2 comes out. -- John --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
It seems to me that there are a lot of good arguments on both sides of the wiki style debate (wikipedia seems to work, but only through shear number of managers). However, the point here is more fundamental to Cake in my opinion. It's already been raised that it can be difficult to identify and directly contact the Cake team, and that communication - especially in the area of documentation - has been limited of late. Endless thanks to John for clarifying that (Cf. State of the Docs thread). Of course, when you don't tell people how to find the tools, and you don't give them the tools (decent 1.2 docs) they will tend to go and do their own thing. vide the excellent commented manual idea. Is there anything the Cake core team can do to embrace the community's ideas more enthusiatically, and open up the cabal a bit. Cease and desist tactics, and snotty comments in groups like this are the domain of the closed source world, and defy the spirit of free and open source software. Cake is a great platform, but we could be nicer to people who are trying to use it. I will certainly try and do so myself in this forum now I've figured it all out. S --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
On Jun 19, 2007, at 8:06 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
It seems to me that there are a lot of good arguments on both sides of
the wiki style debate (wikipedia seems to work, but only through shear
number of managers).
However, the point here is more fundamental to Cake in my opinion.
It's already been raised that it can be difficult to identify and
directly contact the Cake team, and that communication - especially in
the area of documentation - has been limited of late. Endless thanks
to John for clarifying that (Cf. State of the Docs thread).
Most of us hang out in IRC during the US working day. Besides, we all
follow this mailing list as well.
We're not too hard to get a hold of. We don't bite very often, so
you're pretty safe contacting us with questions. :)
Of course, when you don't tell people how to find the tools, and you
don't give them the tools (decent 1.2 docs) they will tend to go and
do their own thing. vide the excellent commented manual idea.
I've tried to communicate this better, but please note: there will be
*no* docs for 1.2 until it is finally released. It is a development
version. Please please please realize that 1.2 has no official docs
until it has been officially released.
Is there anything the Cake core team can do to embrace the community's
ideas more enthusiatically, and open up the cabal a bit. Cease and
desist tactics, and snotty comments in groups like this are the domain
of the closed source world, and defy the spirit of free and open
source software.
I'm very open to ideas on this. We try to keep on trac tickets,
though I haven't done a very good job of that lately. I suppose
that's the easiest way to formally review new ideas.
Don't be surprised if we push back on your ideas, and please don't
take it personally. We're only trying to do what we think is best.
Cake is a great platform, but we could be nicer to people who are
trying to use it. I will certainly try and do so myself in this forum
now I've figured it all out.
while(1)
{
$simon-clone();
}
Thanks,
John
--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake
PHP group.
To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en
-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
I've been using http://docs.cakephp.nu/, but I haven't seen any comments yet. The front page there mentions RSS feeds to all discussions, but I couldn't find the feed. Any chance of adding an RSS feed to user discussions on http://www.cirello.org/cakephp-manual/? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
Or even better, set up each comment to start a thread in the newsgroup :-D then capture comments on the comment, lol On 6/18/07, NOSLOW [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been using http://docs.cakephp.nu/, but I haven't seen any comments yet. The front page there mentions RSS feeds to all discussions, but I couldn't find the feed. Any chance of adding an RSS feed to user discussions on http://www.cirello.org/cakephp-manual/? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
bah humbug, i was joking, although it would be a good idea to have comments on the manual moderated by the users (have users respond to whether the comment is valid or not) On 6/18/07, Chris Hartjes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/18/07, Jonathan Langevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or even better, set up each comment to start a thread in the newsgroup :-D then capture comments on the comment, lol You should be kicked off this group for merely suggesting such a thing... -- Chris Hartjes My motto for 2007: Just build it, damnit! @TheBallpark - http://www.littlehart.net/attheballpark @TheKeyboard - http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
You should be kicked off this group for merely suggesting such a thing... I agree. Henceforth all bad ideas shall result in the banning of at least one person who contributed to said idea. Furthermore, there shall be no exception for jokes, sarcasm, or grumpiness. Ha! ;-) On Jun 18, 10:53 am, Jonathan Langevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: bah humbug, i was joking, although it would be a good idea to have comments on the manual moderated by the users (have users respond to whether the comment is valid or not) On 6/18/07, Chris Hartjes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 6/18/07, Jonathan Langevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Or even better, set up each comment to start a thread in the newsgroup :-D then capture comments on the comment, lol You should be kicked off this group for merely suggesting such a thing... -- Chris Hartjes My motto for 2007: Just build it, damnit! @TheBallpark -http://www.littlehart.net/attheballpark @TheKeyboard -http://www.littlehart.net/atthekeyboard- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
Out with ya! Sonic --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
BTW, I've posted a Doc Ticket at trac.cakephp offering the system to cakephp core team. On 18 jun, 13:07, Sonic Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Out with ya! Sonic --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
Also... the comment area was too short in the database... Just changed it to store longer texts. On 18 jun, 13:07, Sonic Baker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Out with ya! Sonic --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
Hi Jonathan... I've made a Linux Shell Script using sed which replaces HTML in the page's bottom lines to a Javascript which runs the comment system... Thus, when a new release of the manual is shipped, I just have to download it, run the script and upload the new version... Now the remarks, I think I will insert a version tag on them... So when, the Manual version changes, people will know to which version the remark would refer to. Anyway... There will always be a work of cleaning up the flames, the useless comments or too old to make sense anymore... www.cakemanual.org, perhaps? LOL Uldérico On Jun 16, 11:05 pm, Jonathan Langevin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: nice addition, just a shame comments aren't available on manual.cakephp.org it seems that your version of the manual deserves it's own domain btw :-) out of curiosity, how will you keep the manual updated properly, and still maintain the comments properly? On 6/16/07, Dérico Filho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Everyone, I've made available at my site a free-to-comment version of CakePHP Manual... Please, feel free to access it. http://www.cirello.org/cakephp-manual/ Uldérico- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
Nice idea , lets hope it will get a lot of comments and with time turn into a great resource :) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
RE: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
If its not going to be official accepted by cakephp.org - I can host it on cakephp.nu ( I have http://docs.cakephp.nu already ) and http://logs.cakephp.nu ( IRC logs ) You can contact me by email or from IRC ( Jippi ) if you like the idea -Original Message- From: cake-php@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of rdoggsv Sent: 17. juni 2007 17:26 To: Cake PHP Subject: Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual Nice idea , lets hope it will get a lot of comments and with time turn into a great resource :) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
Hi Christian, Well, my host is very idle, I think I can keep hosting it... I think it's good idea crossing link between cirello.org/cakephp-manual and docs.cakephp.nu, because one is focused on API and the other is a more use-oriented documentation. I plan to talk to CakePHP core team in order to offer the tool I made for commenting to be hosted on manual.cakephp.org... If they refuse the offer, surely I'll make it available on some sort of mirroring system... Thus it would be hosted either on cirello.org or cakephp.nu... I haven't spoken to them yet because I am working on the tool to improve its robustness. Uldérico. On 17 jun, 12:59, Christian Winther [Cwi.dk] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If its not going to be official accepted by cakephp.org - I can host it on cakephp.nu ( I havehttp://docs.cakephp.nualready ) andhttp://logs.cakephp.nu( IRC logs ) You can contact me by email or from IRC ( Jippi ) if you like the idea -Original Message- From: cake-php@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of rdoggsv Sent: 17. juni 2007 17:26 To: Cake PHP Subject: Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual Nice idea , lets hope it will get a lot of comments and with time turn into a great resource :)- Ocultar texto entre aspas - - Mostrar texto entre aspas - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
i think cakemanual.org would be nice :-) On 6/17/07, Dérico Filho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Christian, Well, my host is very idle, I think I can keep hosting it... I think it's good idea crossing link between cirello.org/cakephp-manual and docs.cakephp.nu, because one is focused on API and the other is a more use-oriented documentation. I plan to talk to CakePHP core team in order to offer the tool I made for commenting to be hosted on manual.cakephp.org... If they refuse the offer, surely I'll make it available on some sort of mirroring system... Thus it would be hosted either on cirello.org or cakephp.nu... I haven't spoken to them yet because I am working on the tool to improve its robustness. Uldérico. On 17 jun, 12:59, Christian Winther [Cwi.dk] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If its not going to be official accepted by cakephp.org - I can host it on cakephp.nu ( I havehttp://docs.cakephp.nualready ) andhttp://logs.cakephp.nu( IRC logs ) You can contact me by email or from IRC ( Jippi ) if you like the idea -Original Message- From: cake-php@googlegroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of rdoggsv Sent: 17. juni 2007 17:26 To: Cake PHP Subject: Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual Nice idea , lets hope it will get a lot of comments and with time turn into a great resource :)- Ocultar texto entre aspas - - Mostrar texto entre aspas - --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Commented Version of CakePHP Manual
nice addition, just a shame comments aren't available on manual.cakephp.org it seems that your version of the manual deserves it's own domain btw :-) out of curiosity, how will you keep the manual updated properly, and still maintain the comments properly? On 6/16/07, Dérico Filho [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Everyone, I've made available at my site a free-to-comment version of CakePHP Manual... Please, feel free to access it. http://www.cirello.org/cakephp-manual/ Uldérico --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Cake PHP group. To post to this group, send email to cake-php@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cake-php?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
