[cctalk] Re: what to do with our "treasures"

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Thu, 27 Jun 2024, js--- via cctalk wrote:

I'm interested in this, but..

- How would they be compensated?


presumably by some sort of percentage commission, such as done by art 
brokers, real estate agents, etc.


- How would it be ensured that they didn't have a conflict of 
interest, or bias, (or an actual interest in the collection)?


There may be occasional ethics issues.  If it is composed of multiple 
"agents", then an agent who has personal lust for part of the collection 
should have to recuse themselves?  If it is a single entity, then they 
should openly negotiate with the owners.  How is that currently handled in 
art and real estate?


I trust Sellam, at least with that stuff;  those who do not will have to 
find other venues.




- How much would such a service cost, or be priced?


THAT's a tough one, and it is likely to go up or down, as things develop. 
And in fact, it might be necessary to have that be a function of how 
difficult it will be to move the stuff.
Most inheritors, and even owners, of collections would probably be willing 
to accept fairly substantial commission percentages.  There will probably 
even be more than a few who will effectively say, "I don't care!  If you 
remove ALL of it, we'lll be happy!"



I'm for it.
Wanna do a test run with a truckload of my crap^h^h^h^h treasures?

--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

[cctalk] Re: what to do with our "treasures"

[js--- via cctalk]

On 6/27/2024 10:09 PM, Bill Degnan via cctalk wrote:

Regardless I think Sellam is on to something here, there is need for a
service to manage the vintage computing collections of this who are not
predisposed to do so themselves.   At a minimum an objective consultation
and report produced by an educated appraiser of vintage computing /
electronics that can be referenced by the collector's surviving family.
Something that says, here is what you have, here are your options.

Bill



I'm interested in this, but..

- How would they be compensated?

- How would it be ensured that they didn't have a conflict of interest, 
or bias, (or an actual interest in the collection)?


- How much would such a service cost, or be priced?

JohnS.

[cctalk] Re: what to do with our "treasures"

[Bill Degnan via cctalk]

On Thu, Jun 27, 2024, 10:53 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk 
wrote:

> >> I generally don't like "make an offer", unless the seller has already
> >> stated an offer.  If so,then I can decide whether what I want to pay is
> in
> >> a range that they would discuss it.
> >> Otherwise,it is usually futile to start a discussion.
>
> On Thu, 27 Jun 2024, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:
> > I make offers on eBay all the time and more often than not they are
> > accepted (or a reasonable counter-offer comes as a reply).  Maybe it's
> > because I'm not chasing what everyone else is after.
>
> absolutely
> eBay "make an offer" is actually a "counter-offer", since the seller has
> already posted some sort of price.  Those can be quite productive.
>
> The ones that I don't like are ones (particularly flea-market) where the
> seller refuses to give any indication of what they want, and demands that
> the potential buyer make the first offer.
>
> --
> Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com


Regardless I think Sellam is on to something here, there is need for a
service to manage the vintage computing collections of this who are not
predisposed to do so themselves.   At a minimum an objective consultation
and report produced by an educated appraiser of vintage computing /
electronics that can be referenced by the collector's surviving family.
Something that says, here is what you have, here are your options.

Bill

>
>

[cctalk] Re: what to do with our "treasures"

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

I generally don't like "make an offer", unless the seller has already
stated an offer.  If so,then I can decide whether what I want to pay is in
a range that they would discuss it.
Otherwise,it is usually futile to start a discussion.


On Thu, 27 Jun 2024, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:

I make offers on eBay all the time and more often than not they are
accepted (or a reasonable counter-offer comes as a reply).  Maybe it's
because I'm not chasing what everyone else is after.


absolutely
eBay "make an offer" is actually a "counter-offer", since the seller has 
already posted some sort of price.  Those can be quite productive.


The ones that I don't like are ones (particularly flea-market) where the 
seller refuses to give any indication of what they want, and demands that 
the potential buyer make the first offer.


--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

[cctalk] Re: what to do with our "treasures"

[Sellam Abraham via cctalk]

On Thu, Jun 27, 2024 at 7:04 PM John Herron via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> One thing (if not already making some hardware list and maybe a description
> of the history and price of the item for your family) that was recommended
> was just walking around with a video camera and talking about what what. An
> archive video of the collection will be a huge help to family if they know
> about the video. At least you could say "btw, this is an x .. it's worth
> finding a buyer and not trashing"


This is a really good idea.

And then upload it to YouTube.

Sellam

[cctalk] Re: what to do with our "treasures"

[Sellam Abraham via cctalk]

On Thu, Jun 27, 2024 at 1:35 PM Fred Cisin via cctalk 
wrote:

> >>> Sounds like we more need a "make offer" page.  Is there somewhere on
> >>> the net that already does this?
>
> On Thu, 27 Jun 2024, Ali via cctalk wrote:
> > The problem with this is it gets tedious from a buyer's perspective. The
> way I see it either of three scenarios are occurring when I see make an
> offer:
>
> I generally don't like "make an offer", unless the seller has already
> stated an offer.  If so,then I can decide whether what I want to pay is in
> a range that they would discuss it.
> Otherwise,it is usually futile to start a discussion.
>

I make offers on eBay all the time and more often than not they are
accepted (or a reasonable counter-offer comes as a reply).  Maybe it's
because I'm not chasing what everyone else is after.

Sellam

[cctalk] Re: what to do with our "treasures"

[John Herron via cctalk]

One thing (if not already making some hardware list and maybe a description
of the history and price of the item for your family) that was recommended
was just walking around with a video camera and talking about what what. An
archive video of the collection will be a huge help to family if they know
about the video. At least you could say "btw, this is an x .. it's worth
finding a buyer and not trashing"

On Thu, Jun 27, 2024, 10:59 AM Mark Linimon via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> > On 06/27/2024 9:36 AM CDT Bill Gunshannon via cctalk
> > To date, I have sold nothing.  I once went back to the list that
> > suggested I use ebay to report my failure only to be greeted with,
> > "Well, what did you expect.  You are not an established seller."
>
> I also have a whole pile of stuff that needs to go "somewhere".
>
> Sounds like we more need a "make offer" page.  Is there somewhere on the
> net that already does this?
>
> mcl
>

[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

[Jon Elson via cctalk]

On 6/27/24 10:41, ben via cctalk wrote:

On 2024-06-27 9:22 a.m., Jim Brain via cctalk wrote:

The idea of leaving these items behind and thinking our 
loved ones will see any value from selling is ludicrous, 
though, and I question the sanity of those who seriously 
believe this. While I am sure there are exceptions to the 
rule, I do not believe there are many.


I still say, if you think it is worth something, make 
sure you sell it yourself while you are still alive.


Jim
How many computers here, have been pulled out of the 
dumpster I wonder?
Politics and management can be real ASSES on the value of 
something
like computers. I grumble about the loss of knowledge in 
libraries
as older computer books get trashed.A lot computers must 
get tossed also

do to lack of software.
Ben.
Get a C64 now with a free dumpster.


I dragged an SGI IRIS 2020 off the loading dock at work (one 
step away from the dumpster). The boot manager came up right 
away (it was a minimal Unix system that could access the 
hard drive.)  but, it would not boot the full SGI Unix OS 
due to failures in the geometry engine board.  A guy in 
Germany sold me all his boards for a small fee, and his 
geometry engine board worked.  I played around with the SGI 
flight sim for a while, and eventually the geometry engine 
went out again.  I sold all the boards to an outfit that 
maintained old SGI machines at an air force base in Alaska.


I have dragged a big box of DEC books to the VCF MW twice, 
and I really was not able to even GIVE them away!


Jon

[cctalk] Re: wanted: HP-UX 11i v1 (11.11) install media or images

[Eric Smith via cctalk]

On Tue, Jun 25, 2024, 22:33 Robert Johnson via cctalk 
wrote:

> I’m all but certain that the 16500 series is a 68k not PA-RISC though.
>

Yes. It is the 16700 series that uses a PA7300LC CPU.

Nevertheless, for reverse-engineering the module interface, working with a
16500 will be easier.

[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

[Ali via cctalk]

> If something is sold for parts then unless there is a big difference in
> the
> pictures compared to what you actually receive you are SOL.

Not true at all.  

> And even stuff sold as used working isn't working because the seller
> doesn't
> spend a minute to even bothering checking and will issue a refund if
> they
> have to.

Exactly. All these games sellers try to play never work out. People are willing 
to buy on eBay because at the end of the day you rarely have to worry about a 
seller successfully scamming you. If you want to avoid refunds there are only 
two choices:

1. Sell what you are advertising and don't over hype it trying to get more money
2. Sell real cheap so that the hassle of committing fraud, returning the item, 
waiting weeks for a refund is not worth it to the fraudsters.

So I ask again using these tactics have you sold your really popular and 
expensive board yet? Or are people 
passing it buy because it isn't working and costs way too much for "non-working 
parts"?

-Ali

[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

[Ali via cctalk]

> For some vintage computers, one has limited opportunity to purchase and
> may need to buy what’s available.
> 

Which is exactly what is driving the predatory pricing and massive increase in 
the cost of items. The sellers know this and are banking on it. Also to be 
clear my original points were made when the discussion was talking about "our" 
personal collections and what future heirs could/would do with them. When you 
start talking about businesses who have no skin in the game (i.e. they don't 
care if they are recycling an IBM 5100, an Apple IIc, or a microwave) it’s a 
whole different ball game with its own set of rules.

-Ali

[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

[Alan Perry via cctalk]

It isn’t simple.

A company gets a lot of stuff that includes vintage computer equipment. They 
have no idea how to test it other than to power it on. They have no facilities 
to repair returned computers. But they are a business and need to make money to 
continue being a business.

Do you really want them selling stuff at scrap prices and see things get 
scrapped, depending on who is looking when the item goes up for sale? 

About a year ago a Tatung COMPstation 40 (a SPARCstation 2 clone) came up on 
eBay. I have never seen one before, let alone had a chance to buy one. I 
negotiated the price down a bit but still had to buy a “disk” (SCSI2SD) and 
IDPROM and add memory from my stash to make a working computer.

Six months after that an Axil 220 (a SS LX clone) came up. Again, I have never 
seen one before. I negotiated the 220 down to the same price as the Tatung (but 
it was more of a price drop from the asking price). I am still trying to get it 
to run (re-cap’ed the PSU, voltages look good around the board, but it doesn’t 
power up).

A couple weeks ago, a “untested” Sun 3/80 system board and PSU came up. I 
offered the same as the systems above. He came down a third between the asking 
price and my offer. If it were something I “needed” I would have taken the 
offer. The next day someone else did.

For some vintage computers, one has limited opportunity to purchase and may 
need to buy what’s available.

alan

> On Jun 27, 2024, at 14:49, Teo Zenios via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> Simple really.
> If you list something as used then it better work, EVERYTHING on it better 
> work or buyer can get a refund.
> 
> If I have a very popular PR440FX dual Pentium Pro motherboard for sale and 
> wanted to list it as used I would have to check every interface on the board 
> to make sure it all worked or it will come back. And even then if somebody 
> tried to use something on the USB port (which are so early in USB life 
> nothing works on it) they can say its broken. The boards go for hundreds bare.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message- From: Chuck Guzis via cctalk
> Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2024 4:56 PM
> To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
> Cc: Chuck Guzis
> Subject: [cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors
> 
> I see a lot of listings with "not working or for parts" with the tag
> "seller does not accept returns".   I don't understand how a seller can
> ask for more than scrap value in these cases, yet I see outrageous
> asking prices.
> 
> One born every minute?
> 
> --Chuck
> 
> --
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> www.avast.com

[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

[Teo Zenios via cctalk]

If something is sold for parts then unless there is a big difference in the 
pictures compared to what you actually receive you are SOL.


I think people put too much BS into the description when they don't have to. 
And even stuff sold as used working isn't working because the seller doesn't 
spend a minute to even bothering checking and will issue a refund if they 
have to.




-Original Message- 
From: Ali via cctalk

Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2024 5:57 PM
To: 'General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts'
Cc: Ali
Subject: [cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors


Simple really.
If you list something as used then it better work, EVERYTHING on it
better
work or buyer can get a refund.



Well if it is for parts then you better also describe it as such. None of 
that "it worked the last time I used it", looks real clean, stored well, 
etc. etc. because a buyer can also return it for those reasons (it worked 
the last time you used it great then when I use it, it better work as well). 
I actually see some of the Japanese sellers play at this BS. They just put 
down junk, trash, not working for description and list for 100s to 1000s of 
dollars. Of course for some reason their stuff never sells and keeps getting 
relisted? LOL.


So have you sold your really popular and expensive board yet? Or are people 
passing it buy because it isn't working and costs way too much for 
"non-working parts"?


-Ali 



--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

[Ali via cctalk]

> It can be important at the other end of the scale.
> If a seller has too many negative reviews, I read every one of those,
> and
> decide whether the risk is worthwhile.

Fred,

I agree if the seller has really crappy ratings (80s or lower) then that may
matter if it is an easily found commodity. However, because of the eBay
driven manipulation most sellers have stellar ratings. For example there is
one seller that keeps listing a IBM 5100 with free shipping and a starting
price of 99cents. However, if you actually look at the listing hidden in the
text and pictures he states the item is for sale at a specific price to be
paid on a different site with a spoofed eBay URL. I have reported him a
number of times and most of the time eBay takes the listing off but recently
because of the wording he is using the eBay AI is too stupid to figure it
out. However, throughout the process and multiple listings he has maintained
his 100% FB score. So I ask again what is the FB worth? I bid/buy items I am
interested in at a price I think is fair/I can afford; I lose no biggie and
if I win great. If the seller screws around after sale eBay Money Back
Gurantee is filed immediately no matter what the sellers FB score.

-Ali

[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

[Ali via cctalk]

> Buyers aren't stupid,  quality listings where it is clear that the
> seller
> has put time and effort into creating the listing are appealing.

I never said they were. In fact I argued the opposite that buyers are very 
savvy.

> If I list an item as "used" under eBay then I make sure it's clean,  I
> make
> sure that I have tested it and I state this.  I also provide as many
> photographs as eBay allows and they are of good quality.If I can't
> fully test it,

Great. That is all you need to know as a buyer. The seller's reputation doesn't 
really work into it - i.e. a seller with 10K FB and 20 year history on eBay who 
takes grainy photos and can't be bothered to say anything about the item is not 
about to get more love just because they are established or their reputation.


>  I list it as condition "for parts or repair" and state
> what
> I've tested and what I've not.

As long as you also price it as such (i.e. Pennies on the Dollar or lower). 
Many sellers pull all that crap and list it as if they were selling a Kidney

> 
> I see so many sellers listing stuff as "used" with poor photos and
> often
> some "as-is" disclaimer in the text body.   I don't know why sellers do
> this as eBay is going to force them to take an item back at their own
> expense.

"Wired for Service" anyone? LOL. Yeah lots of crappy established sellers on 
eBay (see above).

> I don't sell much on eBay for entirely different reasons; I find their
> fees
> to be BS.

Well they got to eat too. I don't buy as much as used to because of the total 
and utter lack of CSR for the customer now a days. eBay seems to forget that 
the guy with the cash is the customer to be catered to not the guy listing on 
twenty different platforms...

-Ali

[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

[Ali via cctalk]

> Simple really.
> If you list something as used then it better work, EVERYTHING on it
> better
> work or buyer can get a refund.
> 

Well if it is for parts then you better also describe it as such. None of that 
"it worked the last time I used it", looks real clean, stored well, etc. etc. 
because a buyer can also return it for those reasons (it worked the last time 
you used it great then when I use it, it better work as well). I actually see 
some of the Japanese sellers play at this BS. They just put down junk, trash, 
not working for description and list for 100s to 1000s of dollars. Of course 
for some reason their stuff never sells and keeps getting relisted? LOL.

So have you sold your really popular and expensive board yet? Or are people 
passing it buy because it isn't working and costs way too much for "non-working 
parts"?

-Ali

[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

[Teo Zenios via cctalk]

Simple really.
If you list something as used then it better work, EVERYTHING on it better 
work or buyer can get a refund.


If I have a very popular PR440FX dual Pentium Pro motherboard for sale and 
wanted to list it as used I would have to check every interface on the board 
to make sure it all worked or it will come back. And even then if somebody 
tried to use something on the USB port (which are so early in USB life 
nothing works on it) they can say its broken. The boards go for hundreds 
bare.




-Original Message- 
From: Chuck Guzis via cctalk

Sent: Thursday, June 27, 2024 4:56 PM
To: cctalk@classiccmp.org
Cc: Chuck Guzis
Subject: [cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

I see a lot of listings with "not working or for parts" with the tag
"seller does not accept returns".   I don't understand how a seller can
ask for more than scrap value in these cases, yet I see outrageous
asking prices.

One born every minute?

--Chuck 



--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com

[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

[Alan Perry via cctalk]

On 6/27/24 2:09 PM, Fred Cisin via cctalk wrote:

On Thu, 27 Jun 2024, Ali via cctalk wrote:
And how does that help? Let's say seller has 98% rating what does 
that tell you? Or said in another way how does it affect your 
decision making process? I.E. would you pay 30% or even 10% more for 
the same item with a seller who has 100% rating (for whatever that is 
worth as ratings are very much manipulated by sellers and eBay).


It can be important at the other end of the scale.
If a seller has too many negative reviews, I read every one of those, 
and decide whether the risk is worthwhile.




The feedback mechanism is biased towards giving positive feedback, so I 
read a lot of feedback comments.


I bid on the item and, within my budget and what I think is reasonable, 
the price is what it is. Most of what I am looking for is sun3 and 
non-Sun SPARC systems which don't come up often. I look at what the 
seller has sold before to help judge whether the description is accurate.



alan

[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

[Andrei Kudryavtsev via cctalk]

Some sellers are also doing that to protect themselves from a massive
buyer's fraud. I can say, nobody is standing for sellers and that's the
reason you could see this. Have to say, I had the situation where I
actually sold broken gear for parts. Buyer received it, took the part he
wanted and then filed a claim. He won it despite those conditions and
returned it. eBay forced to take my money, however I filed the appeal, once
I got the package back and recognized a fraud. Didn't lead anywhere...

On Thu, Jun 27, 2024 at 2:16 PM Tony Jones via cctalk 
wrote:

> On Thu, Jun 27, 2024 at 1:56 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
> cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
>
> > On 6/27/24 13:11, Tony Jones via cctalk wrote:
> > > I see so many sellers listing stuff as "used" with poor photos and
> often
> > > some "as-is" disclaimer in the text body.   I don't know why sellers do
> > > this as eBay is going to force them to take an item back at their own
> > > expense.
> >
> > I see a lot of listings with "not working or for parts" with the tag
> > "seller does not accept returns".   I don't understand how a seller can
> > ask for more than scrap value in these cases, yet I see outrageous
> > asking prices.
> >
> > One born every minute?
> >
>
> Depends on the item and the price."seller does not accept returns" just
> covers buyers remorse.You can still file a SNAD claim for "not working
> or for parts" if it arrives damaged,  or physically is somehow different
> than shown. You just can't file one because it didn't work,  though I'm
> sure eBay would still issue a return label and you'd have to dispute it.
>


-- 
Andrei Kudryavtsev,
Deftaudio www.deftaudio.com
Manufacturing Luma-1 Drum Machine


My last album *Two Match - The 1st Fill* on iTunes
 and Spotify

Follow me on Facebook ,
Instagram 

[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

[Tony Jones via cctalk]

On Thu, Jun 27, 2024 at 2:03 PM Ali via cctalk 
wrote:

> a seller who has 100% rating (for whatever that is worth as ratings are
> very much manipulated by sellers and eBay).
>

This is very true.  It's very hard to leave negative feedback that a seller
can't get removed (if they try).

[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

[Tony Jones via cctalk]

On Thu, Jun 27, 2024 at 1:56 PM Chuck Guzis via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:

> On 6/27/24 13:11, Tony Jones via cctalk wrote:
> > I see so many sellers listing stuff as "used" with poor photos and often
> > some "as-is" disclaimer in the text body.   I don't know why sellers do
> > this as eBay is going to force them to take an item back at their own
> > expense.
>
> I see a lot of listings with "not working or for parts" with the tag
> "seller does not accept returns".   I don't understand how a seller can
> ask for more than scrap value in these cases, yet I see outrageous
> asking prices.
>
> One born every minute?
>

Depends on the item and the price."seller does not accept returns" just
covers buyers remorse.You can still file a SNAD claim for "not working
or for parts" if it arrives damaged,  or physically is somehow different
than shown. You just can't file one because it didn't work,  though I'm
sure eBay would still issue a return label and you'd have to dispute it.

[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

On Thu, 27 Jun 2024, Ali via cctalk wrote:
And how does that help? Let's say seller has 98% rating what does that 
tell you? Or said in another way how does it affect your decision making 
process? I.E. would you pay 30% or even 10% more for the same item with 
a seller who has 100% rating (for whatever that is worth as ratings are 
very much manipulated by sellers and eBay).


It can be important at the other end of the scale.
If a seller has too many negative reviews, I read every one of those, and 
decide whether the risk is worthwhile.


--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

[Paul Koning via cctalk]

> On Jun 27, 2024, at 4:56 PM, Chuck Guzis via cctalk  
> wrote:
> 
> On 6/27/24 13:11, Tony Jones via cctalk wrote:
>> I see so many sellers listing stuff as "used" with poor photos and often
>> some "as-is" disclaimer in the text body.   I don't know why sellers do
>> this as eBay is going to force them to take an item back at their own
>> expense.
> 
> I see a lot of listings with "not working or for parts" with the tag
> "seller does not accept returns".   I don't understand how a seller can
> ask for more than scrap value in these cases, yet I see outrageous
> asking prices.
> 
> One born every minute?
> 
> --Chuck

Simple answer: price is what a buyer will give for the item, and the seller 
will accept.  It is a psychological thing, not an objective metric and not a 
constant or anything that can be determined by analyzing what the item is.

For example, consider "luxury goods".  The WSJ a few days ago had an article 
about luxury handbags (Hermes, I think), which have a list price of $12k or so, 
can be immediately resold on the used market for almost double that, but cost 
perhaps $1k to make.

Conversely, an RK05 may have had a list price over $10k new, a parts cost 
certainly of several thousands of dollars, a cost to reproduce that I can't 
guess at but is bound to be high, a sentimental value that's all over the map.  
But what can you sell it for, if anything?  Not much, I suspect.

Those asking prices are simply attempts to see if someone is willing to pay 
that.  If not, not much harm done, except to the extent that it turns away 
people who might be interested at a better price and now won't even bid.

You can call it an attempt to find suckers, but it might also be a realization 
that people vary wildly in what they will pay for weird things, and it may also 
in part be a case of the seller not having much of an idea about the market.

paul

[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

[Ali via cctalk]

> I am an expert occasional eBay buyer and seller. After joining in ‘97,
> I have a 100% positive rating with 370 feedbacks.

No comment ;)

 
> Unless it is something I haven’t seen elsewhere, I definitely look at
> the rating of the seller.

And how does that help? Let's say seller has 98% rating what does that tell 
you? Or said in another way how does it affect your decision making process? 
I.E. would you pay 30% or even 10% more for the same item with a seller who has 
100% rating (for whatever that is worth as ratings are very much manipulated by 
sellers and eBay).

-Ali

[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

[Chuck Guzis via cctalk]

On 6/27/24 13:11, Tony Jones via cctalk wrote:
> I see so many sellers listing stuff as "used" with poor photos and often
> some "as-is" disclaimer in the text body.   I don't know why sellers do
> this as eBay is going to force them to take an item back at their own
> expense.

I see a lot of listings with "not working or for parts" with the tag
"seller does not accept returns".   I don't understand how a seller can
ask for more than scrap value in these cases, yet I see outrageous
asking prices.

One born every minute?

--Chuck

[cctalk] Re: what to do with our "treasures"

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

Sounds like we more need a "make offer" page.  Is there somewhere on
the net that already does this?


It is important to realize that there are two kinds of shopping browsing:

have decided to buy one, and looking for best deal
or
looking for bargains, and will buy if there are any exceptional deals

"make an offer" is only suitable for the first of those.

[cctalk] Re: what to do with our "treasures"

[Fred Cisin via cctalk]

Sounds like we more need a "make offer" page.  Is there somewhere on
the net that already does this?


On Thu, 27 Jun 2024, Ali via cctalk wrote:

The problem with this is it gets tedious from a buyer's perspective. The way I 
see it either of three scenarios are occurring when I see make an offer:


I generally don't like "make an offer", unless the seller has already 
stated an offer.  If so,then I can decide whether what I want to pay is in 
a range that they would discuss it.

Otherwise,it is usually futile to start a discussion.

All too often, the seller wants far more than I would consider.
In flea markets (Foothill, etc.) I will sometimes say, "Would you be 
offended if I offered xx?"

Sometimes, they are.
But, sometimes they respond with "I wouldn't be offended, but I wouldn't 
accept that."  That at least gives a starting point for potential 
negotiation.


--
Grumpy Ol' Fred ci...@xenosoft.com

[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

[Alan Perry via cctalk]

> On Jun 27, 2024, at 12:53, Ali via cctalk  wrote:
> 
> 
>> 
>> Hogwash.  I have attempted many times to sell stuff on ebay.  Even at
>> the suggestion of people I would have thought were potential buyers.
>> To date, I have sold nothing.  I once went back to the list that
>> suggested I use ebay to report my failure only to be greeted with,
>> "Well, what did you expect.  You are not an established seller."
>> I have tried non-computer stuff, too.  I offered a Chilton Automotive
>> Repair Manual for a classic car.  I listed the cost of a USPS "If it
>> fits, It ships" padded envelope for postage.  Ebay denied my listing
>> saying I was asking to much for shipping.  At that point I quit trying
>> to sell anything on ebay.
> 
> Price rules first. I NEVER look at an eBay seller's rep or newness before 
> buying/bidding. If what you offer is a good price/value then that is all I 
> care about it. If you end up being a shitty seller, not packing right, or 
> whatever, then there is eBay Money Back Guarantee. Your trash is coming right 
> back to you at your expense. I may be disappointed and lose some time but I 
> am not losing any money on the deal so I take the risk. Sometimes it pays off 
> sometimes it doesn't.

I am an expert occasional eBay buyer and seller. After joining in ‘97, I have a 
100% positive rating with 370 feedbacks.

Unless it is something I haven’t seen elsewhere, I definitely look at the 
rating of the seller.

As a seller, I avoid eBay because of the excess fees but sometimes things will 
sell at enough of a premium there to absorb the fee. For some stuff, based on 
my conversations with other sellers, that is where the market is (anyone want 
to buy some signed, first edition Harlan Ellison books ;) ), so one has no 
choice.

Most of the vintage computers that I have sold (mostly early 90s SPARC 
systems), I sold through group mailings lists, FB pages, etc.

alan

[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

[Tony Jones via cctalk]

On Thu, Jun 27, 2024 at 12:53 PM Ali via cctalk 
wrote:

> > Hogwash.  I have attempted many times to sell stuff on ebay.  Even at
> > the suggestion of people I would have thought were potential buyers.
> > To date, I have sold nothing.  I once went back to the list that
> > suggested I use ebay to report my failure only to be greeted with,
> > "Well, what did you expect.  You are not an established seller."
> > I have tried non-computer stuff, too.  I offered a Chilton Automotive
> > Repair Manual for a classic car.  I listed the cost of a USPS "If it
> > fits, It ships" padded envelope for postage.  Ebay denied my listing
> > saying I was asking to much for shipping.  At that point I quit trying
> > to sell anything on ebay.
>
> Price rules first. I NEVER look at an eBay seller's rep or newness before
> buying/bidding. If what you offer is a good price/value then that is all I
> care about it. If you end up being a shitty seller, not packing right, or
> whatever, then there is eBay Money Back Guarantee. Your trash is coming
> right back to you at your expense. I may be disappointed and lose some time
> but I am not losing any money on the deal so I take the risk. Sometimes it
> pays off sometimes it doesn't.
>

Buyers aren't stupid,  quality listings where it is clear that the seller
has put time and effort into creating the listing are appealing.

If I list an item as "used" under eBay then I make sure it's clean,  I make
sure that I have tested it and I state this.  I also provide as many
photographs as eBay allows and they are of good quality.If I can't
fully test it,  I list it as condition "for parts or repair" and state what
I've tested and what I've not.

I see so many sellers listing stuff as "used" with poor photos and often
some "as-is" disclaimer in the text body.   I don't know why sellers do
this as eBay is going to force them to take an item back at their own
expense.

I don't sell much on eBay for entirely different reasons; I find their fees
to be BS.
.

[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

[Brad H via cctalk]

The Great Vintage Computing Heist???  

And yes on the time it takes.  There is a guy on ebay called scifiman.  He has 
been unloading an absolutely massive vintage computer collection, especially 
rare commodores, for like 6 or 7 years now.  He is being kind of firm on a lot 
of his prices though.  I do dread the idea of having to package and ship this 
stuff.  Never enjoyed that process.

-Original Message-
From: Sellam Abraham via cctalk  
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2024 10:00 AM
To: General Discussion: On-Topic and Off-Topic Posts 
Cc: Sellam Abraham 
Subject: [cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

On Wed, Jun 26, 2024 at 9:31 AM Teo Zenios via cctalk 
wrote:

> Ditching a collection is a full time job. It took you so many years to 
> put it together and it will take the same amount of time to part it 
> out if you expect to get any real money out of it (unless you sell the 
> most wanted items and recycle the rest).
>

This is very true, as I discovered when I began selling off (what remained
of) my collection in 2017.  I thought I'd get it all out in a year or so.
It's been 7 years and I'm still at it, with no real end in sight.  Granted I 
haven't been working on it diligently, and I still ended up with 40 pallets of 
stuff after the Great Vintage Computing Heist of 2012, but disgorging a large 
collection is in fact a major undertaking, unless you're willing to sell it all 
at one price, and can find such a buyer to take it in one lot.

Sellam

[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

[Ali via cctalk]

> Hogwash.  I have attempted many times to sell stuff on ebay.  Even at
> the suggestion of people I would have thought were potential buyers.
> To date, I have sold nothing.  I once went back to the list that
> suggested I use ebay to report my failure only to be greeted with,
> "Well, what did you expect.  You are not an established seller."
> I have tried non-computer stuff, too.  I offered a Chilton Automotive
> Repair Manual for a classic car.  I listed the cost of a USPS "If it
> fits, It ships" padded envelope for postage.  Ebay denied my listing
> saying I was asking to much for shipping.  At that point I quit trying
> to sell anything on ebay.

Price rules first. I NEVER look at an eBay seller's rep or newness before 
buying/bidding. If what you offer is a good price/value then that is all I care 
about it. If you end up being a shitty seller, not packing right, or whatever, 
then there is eBay Money Back Guarantee. Your trash is coming right back to you 
at your expense. I may be disappointed and lose some time but I am not losing 
any money on the deal so I take the risk. Sometimes it pays off sometimes it 
doesn't. 

-Ali

[cctalk] Re: what to do with our "treasures"

[Ali via cctalk]

> > Sounds like we more need a "make offer" page.  Is there somewhere on
> the
> > net that already does this?


The problem with this is it gets tedious from a buyer's perspective. The way I 
see it either of three scenarios are occurring when I see make an offer:

1. You are fishing to see what the highest price you can get is
2. You have a price in mind but it is high/eBay level and you just don't want 
to say it
3. You are not serious

Every time I have engaged in this BS it has been a waste of time. Most recently 
was two weeks ago. Someone posted an item on VCF about five months ago. I make 
a very fair offer for the item. It is obvious I am the only one interested but 
the guys goes radio silent after the offer (insulted, ego bruised, thinks it is 
too low, whatever). No one else is making an offer/showing interest so two 
weeks ago he comes back accepting my offer. And this isn't the only time this 
has happened. Had a guys come back to me with an offer I had made him 
pre-covid. So basically with inflation he ended up taking even less money than 
if he had sold to me initially.

At least the guys on VCF are somewhat sane for the most part. The eBay sellers? 
Forget about it. Even 10% off of asking price offers are ignored/declined. 

If you want to sell something list your price and sell it. If your goal is for 
someone to take something and have it preserved then just come out and say it: 
free to good home for cost of shipping. Just my two cents...

-Ali

[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

[Ali via cctalk]

> Sheets page, and met with a lot of success there.  My terms were always
> payment through PayPal via "Friends & Family" (based on my previous
> reputation) and it worked out fine, I never had a problem with anyone.

I am not sure how good of advice this is. 

This is also why I never buy from you. Reputation means you are (more than 
likely) reliable, are advertising what you are selling, have an idea of what 
you are talking about and your pricing is reasonable. It does not protect 
against random acts of BS (e.g. item getting lost by carrier - something I have 
had happen to me when I have shipped stuff out). Plus when it comes to money, 
especially when someone is trying to make a profit, in my experience everything 
changes. I would never buy PP friends and family/Venmo/Zelle/Cash etc. unless 
you are local, I am picking up or you are delivering, and there is 
testing/inspection before exchange of goods for money or we are talking about 
what to me is fudge around money (i.e. under a $50). Of course others may be 
less risk averse or have much more resources so they don't blink an eye at 
losing a couple of grand so their calculations may be different.

-Ali

[cctalk] Re: what to do with our "treasures"

[Johan Helsingius via cctalk]

On 27/06/2024 19:30, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:


As I previously stated I tried that just a month or two ago.
Got zero offers. Scrapped a whole bunch of stuff cause keeping
everything I have now just isn't an option anymore.


An extra problem for us living outside the US is that freight/
postage charges often makes even interested people go "no
thanks".

Julf

[cctalk] Re: what to do with our "treasures"

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 6/27/2024 11:46 AM, Mark Linimon wrote:

On 06/27/2024 9:36 AM CDT Bill Gunshannon via cctalk
To date, I have sold nothing.  I once went back to the list that
suggested I use ebay to report my failure only to be greeted with,
"Well, what did you expect.  You are not an established seller."


I also have a whole pile of stuff that needs to go "somewhere".

Sounds like we more need a "make offer" page.  Is there somewhere on the
net that already does this?




As I previously stated I tried that just a month or two ago.
Got zero offers. Scrapped a whole bunch of stuff cause keeping
everything I have now just isn't an option anymore.

bill

[cctalk] Re: what to do with our "treasures"

[Mike Katz via cctalk]

Look in the for sale forums at vcfed.org.
'
The Vintage Computer Federation.

On 6/27/2024 10:46 AM, Mark Linimon via cctalk wrote:

On 06/27/2024 9:36 AM CDT Bill Gunshannon via cctalk
To date, I have sold nothing.  I once went back to the list that
suggested I use ebay to report my failure only to be greeted with,
"Well, what did you expect.  You are not an established seller."

I also have a whole pile of stuff that needs to go "somewhere".

Sounds like we more need a "make offer" page.  Is there somewhere on the
net that already does this?

mcl

[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

[Sellam Abraham via cctalk]

On Thu, Jun 27, 2024 at 8:22 AM Jim Brain via cctalk 
wrote:

> On 6/27/2024 9:36 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:
>
> Bill, I empathize with your comments.
>
> As you note, to successfully realize financial value from these items,
> one needs to be willing to put them into the various marketplaces,
> potential customers need to be comfortable with you as a seller, and
> customers need to find your pricing reasonable.
>
> I'm a business concern and even I am loathe to try to list items I have
> on the various marketplaces, for the reasons you note. Some people on
> this list have the "presence" and patience to see good results, but I
> don't think many of us do.
>

Over the years I have more often than not been critical of eBay for one
reason or another, but since I re-established an account and began selling
off my remaining collection (aside from a slightly rocky start due to
PayPal always withholding payments because of the newness of my account,
and similar with eBay for sales over $1,000) I've had pretty much nothing
but a positive experience with it.  I don't know if I've hit the right
formula or am just very conscientious with my listings and sales (I am) but
it works for me and I really have no complaints.  eBay has actually been
very good to me with disputes as well (pretty much haven't lost any, even
when the stupid buyer in one instance tried to do an end-run around eBay
and cancelled the transaction through his bank), especially after I became
a "Top Rated Seller" (I only lost that status due to inactivity from being
in and out of the hospital for most of the past 9 months).

I actually first began selling from my own "website" (the afore-linked
Google Sheets "store" I set up) which I would flog here and on VCFed
forums, and through which I initially sold quite a bit.  I then learned
that there was a lot of vintage computing activity on Facebook, so I logged
in there and started finding all the vintage computing groups, set up my
own page to sell, and started advertising it around, as well as my Google
Sheets page, and met with a lot of success there.  My terms were always
payment through PayPal via "Friends & Family" (based on my previous
reputation) and it worked out fine, I never had a problem with anyone.
Anything that didn't sell on FB within a certain amount of time I would
eventually list on eBay (for much higher).

The idea of leaving the

se items behind and thinking our loved ones will
> see any value from selling is ludicrous, though, and I question the
> sanity of those who seriously believe this. While I am sure there are
> exceptions to the rule, I do not believe there are many.
>

I don't think it's as bad as you and Bill make it out to be.  But then, I
have a vision.


> I still say, if you think it is worth something, make sure you sell it
> yourself while you are still alive.
>

Not bad advice at all.

Sellam

[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

[Jim Brain via cctalk]

On 6/27/2024 10:41 AM, ben via cctalk wrote:

How many computers here, have been pulled out of the dumpster I wonder?
Politics and management can be real ASSES on the value of something
like computers. I grumble about the loss of knowledge in libraries
as older computer books get trashed.A lot computers must get tossed also
do to lack of software.
Ben.
Get a C64 now with a free dumpster.


Lightening the mood a bit:

I assume it's different from systems of different eras, but I remember 
some of the early home game consoles being in boxes at garage sales in 
the late 1980s for pennies.  Then, in the early 2000s, I drove around to 
many widows' and "downsizing so I can move into a retirement apt" users' 
homes and "rescued" home computers.


Some of the duplicate items that were obviously of value I sold, but I 
kept most since I didn't see a path to selling and realizing a profit.


Time moved on, and companies relocated me to different states, packing 
and dragging all of this stuff to new homes.


When we arrived in our current home, the movers moved so many computer 
monitors they started taking bets on how many I had (I didn't know, I 
just stacked them up as I rescued them).  I think they tallied 44 in total.


Now, of course the market for home computers has greatly expanded, and 
what was once given away is now worth a tidy some of money.


I do wonder, though, when the market will fall back down on certain era 
machines.  It appears classic cars (well kept and restored, of course) 
continue to appreciate in value, but I am not sure the same will apply 
to computing technology.


Jim


--
Jim Brain
br...@jbrain.com
www.jbrain.com

[cctalk] Re: what to do with our "treasures"

[Mark Linimon via cctalk]

> On 06/27/2024 9:36 AM CDT Bill Gunshannon via cctalk
> To date, I have sold nothing.  I once went back to the list that
> suggested I use ebay to report my failure only to be greeted with,
> "Well, what did you expect.  You are not an established seller."

I also have a whole pile of stuff that needs to go "somewhere".

Sounds like we more need a "make offer" page.  Is there somewhere on the
net that already does this?

mcl

[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

[ben via cctalk]

On 2024-06-27 9:22 a.m., Jim Brain via cctalk wrote:

The idea of leaving these items behind and thinking our loved ones will 
see any value from selling is ludicrous, though, and I question the 
sanity of those who seriously believe this. While I am sure there are 
exceptions to the rule, I do not believe there are many.


I still say, if you think it is worth something, make sure you sell it 
yourself while you are still alive.


Jim

How many computers here, have been pulled out of the dumpster I wonder?
Politics and management can be real ASSES on the value of something
like computers. I grumble about the loss of knowledge in libraries
as older computer books get trashed.A lot computers must get tossed also
do to lack of software.
Ben.
Get a C64 now with a free dumpster.

[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

[Jim Brain via cctalk]

On 6/27/2024 9:36 AM, Bill Gunshannon via cctalk wrote:

Bill, I empathize with your comments.

As you note, to successfully realize financial value from these items, 
one needs to be willing to put them into the various marketplaces, 
potential customers need to be comfortable with you as a seller, and 
customers need to find your pricing reasonable.


I'm a business concern and even I am loathe to try to list items I have 
on the various marketplaces, for the reasons you note. Some people on 
this list have the "presence" and patience to see good results, but I 
don't think many of us do.


Still, as long as we're talking about those of us here pricing, packing, 
and selling items, I wish everyone great transactions and positive 
experiences.


The idea of leaving these items behind and thinking our loved ones will 
see any value from selling is ludicrous, though, and I question the 
sanity of those who seriously believe this. While I am sure there are 
exceptions to the rule, I do not believe there are many.


I still say, if you think it is worth something, make sure you sell it 
yourself while you are still alive.


Jim

[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 6/27/2024 1:29 AM, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:

On Wed, Jun 26, 2024 at 9:17 PM Doc Shipley via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:


Much, much more important than the money, though, is the impact leaving
a large collection would have on my descendants. News Flash:

THESE TREASURES ARE THEIR TRASH.

It would be unconscionable for me to put any expectation on them to
"properly" dispose of my computers.  To do so would require a silly
amount of self-education for them to know even what these things ARE,
much less what they're worth and where to sell them.



Not necessarily.  It depends on the trash in question.  The second-hand
market is huge, and the computer collecting hobby is currently a thriving
part of it.


Only if the individual involved knows what the stuff is and is familiar
with that second hand market.  My wife has no idea what any of the stuff
in my basement is.



As long as there's time and worth (there is) to list everything on eBay,
doing so at the very least will ensure that the stuff ends up in
appreciative hands.  I don't subscribe to this idea that just because stuff
gets sold on eBay means it'll never again see the light of day.  First of
all, it's better than going into a dumpster.  And second, it takes money to
buy stuff on eBay.  The trend is up, and this stuff ain't cheap anymore.
And third, the people buying stuff on eBay are people like me, people who
work at computer museums, or run their own, etc.  The stuff on eBay is
probably going to a collector that's probably going to make use of it or
appreciate it.  LGR and Brad Hodges (YouTubers) are two people that
regularly feature stuff they buy off eBay on their channels.


Hogwash.  I have attempted many times to sell stuff on ebay.  Even at
the suggestion of people I would have thought were potential buyers.
To date, I have sold nothing.  I once went back to the list that
suggested I use ebay to report my failure only to be greeted with,
"Well, what did you expect.  You are not an established seller."
I have tried non-computer stuff, too.  I offered a Chilton Automotive
Repair Manual for a classic car.  I listed the cost of a USPS "If it
fits, It ships" padded envelope for postage.  Ebay denied my listing
saying I was asking to much for shipping.  At that point I quit trying
to sell anything on ebay.



Bottom line is that vintage computer stuff now has a lot of value, and


And yet, as recently as a couple months ago I couldn't garner any
interest in some items (mostly DEC) I had.


there's a generation of younger people coming up behind my generation that
has a definite interest in this stuff, from the 1990s PCs all the way back
to 1940s mainframes.  So even if they were to hire one of those companies
that comes and hauls everything away and sells it all on eBay and gives a
cut back to the owner, it will still result in much of your effort to
preserve historical computer stuff not at all being in vain.  Bonus if you
leave behind a detailed inventory with historical notes.



That sounds a lot to me like a DNR.  I am still waiting for someone
to explain to me why they think the EMT is going to go thru my pockets
looking for it when I am lying on the floor after having a heart attack.
If I left a detailed list of everything I have my wife would still not
have a clue what it was other than junk.

bill

PS.  My wife is a ham radio operator just like me and all the old Ham
gear I have would be in the same boat.

[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

[Bill Gunshannon via cctalk]

On 6/26/2024 9:47 PM, Wayne S via cctalk wrote:

Everyone have their collections appraised and see what their worth. Might be 
eye-opening.



You are right.  Especially when the number comes in around $0.00.

I have attempted to sell off parts of my collection at various times
when situations forced it.  So far I have made a grand total of $0.00
selling vintage computer equipment.  I was once offered $100 for all
of my DEC Modules.  They wouldn't take things like tape drives, disk
drives or racks which made up the bulk of the stuff I really needed
to dispose of.  And to add insult to injury included in that collection
were two UNIBUS Ethernet Modules, brand new, still in the original
packing which the person offering the $100 was currently selling for
$1800 per.

I suspect when I go (and I expect to go before my wife) all of my
remaining stuff will go in the dumpster she will need to clean out
the house so she can sell it.

Value is seldom what people expect. My mother collected all that
crap that people like the Bradbury Mint and many other places sold
to unwitting spinsters and widows.  She also collected "First Day
Covers" from the USPS.  Buying Block Sheets with the Engraving
Numbers to match them.  She probably spent over $80,000 on that junk
in her lifetime.  When she died an appraiser was brought in.  The
estate got $1000 for everything.


bill

[cctalk] Re: SMECC museum status

[Christian Corti via cctalk]

On Wed, 26 Jun 2024, Fred Cisin wrote:

Here is what was on the list:
 Subject: Re: Fwd: [GreenKeys] FW: [cca] Ed Sharpe, KF7RWW, SK


Not a subject line that would get my attention on this list.

Christian

[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

[Sellam Abraham via cctalk]

All very good points. This is why I'm putting together the organization
I've described. It is to fill in where the surviving family members can't
take on the burden.

Sellam

On Wed, Jun 26, 2024, 11:25 PM Doc Shipley via cctalk 
wrote:

> On 6/27/24 00:29, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:
> > On Wed, Jun 26, 2024 at 9:17 PM Doc Shipley via cctalk <
> > cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:
> >
> >> Much, much more important than the money, though, is the impact leaving
> >> a large collection would have on my descendants. News Flash:
> >>
> >> THESE TREASURES ARE THEIR TRASH.
> >>
> >> It would be unconscionable for me to put any expectation on them to
> >> "properly" dispose of my computers.  To do so would require a silly
> >> amount of self-education for them to know even what these things ARE,
> >> much less what they're worth and where to sell them.
> >>
> >>
> > Not necessarily.  It depends on the trash in question.  The second-hand
> > market is huge, and the computer collecting hobby is currently a thriving
> > part of it.
> >
> >
> > Bottom line is that vintage computer stuff now has a lot of value, and
> > there's a generation of younger people coming up behind my generation
> that
> > has a definite interest in this stuff, from the 1990s PCs all the way
> back
> > to 1940s mainframes.  So even if they were to hire one of those companies
> > that comes and hauls everything away and sells it all on eBay and gives a
> > cut back to the owner, it will still result in much of your effort to
> > preserve historical computer stuff not at all being in vain.  Bonus if
> you
> > leave behind a detailed inventory with historical notes.
>
> >
> > Sellam
>
> My point was, and is, that my heirs must get a choice in all that.  Even
> casual listing on ebay takes time and attention, and in the case of
> computers there's a significant up-front expense just *housing* them,
> even temporarily.
>
> All my kids have kids of their own and not a lot of available time and
> attention.  It's on me as a responsible father to make it available if,
> and only if, they feel it's worth their time.  Otherwise I'm leaving
> them a burden that's not of their choosing.
>
> I should add that organizing and making coherent the physical storage of
> all this is a big part of my goal.
>
> *I* know what that open topped cardboard carton of circuit boards is,
> but J Random Helper will have no idea how to tell the ISA adapters from
> the AGB cards from the QBus RAM boards, and even if there's a detailed
> inventory, somebody would have to find the *correct* set of characters
> on the silkscreens and look them up.
>
> I feel that just sorting for some kind of coherency and consistently
> labeling all the little parts and pieces, and packing them in stackable
> cartons or tubs, will go a very long way toward making my collection an
> asset to the heirs instead of a giant pain in the butt.
>
>
> Doc
>

[cctalk] Re: Revocable Living Trust for Computer Collectors

[Doc Shipley via cctalk]

On 6/27/24 00:29, Sellam Abraham via cctalk wrote:

On Wed, Jun 26, 2024 at 9:17 PM Doc Shipley via cctalk <
cctalk@classiccmp.org> wrote:


Much, much more important than the money, though, is the impact leaving
a large collection would have on my descendants. News Flash:

THESE TREASURES ARE THEIR TRASH.

It would be unconscionable for me to put any expectation on them to
"properly" dispose of my computers.  To do so would require a silly
amount of self-education for them to know even what these things ARE,
much less what they're worth and where to sell them.



Not necessarily.  It depends on the trash in question.  The second-hand
market is huge, and the computer collecting hobby is currently a thriving
part of it.


Bottom line is that vintage computer stuff now has a lot of value, and
there's a generation of younger people coming up behind my generation that
has a definite interest in this stuff, from the 1990s PCs all the way back
to 1940s mainframes.  So even if they were to hire one of those companies
that comes and hauls everything away and sells it all on eBay and gives a
cut back to the owner, it will still result in much of your effort to
preserve historical computer stuff not at all being in vain.  Bonus if you
leave behind a detailed inventory with historical notes.




Sellam


My point was, and is, that my heirs must get a choice in all that.  Even 
casual listing on ebay takes time and attention, and in the case of 
computers there's a significant up-front expense just *housing* them, 
even temporarily.


All my kids have kids of their own and not a lot of available time and 
attention.  It's on me as a responsible father to make it available if, 
and only if, they feel it's worth their time.  Otherwise I'm leaving 
them a burden that's not of their choosing.


I should add that organizing and making coherent the physical storage of 
all this is a big part of my goal.


*I* know what that open topped cardboard carton of circuit boards is, 
but J Random Helper will have no idea how to tell the ISA adapters from 
the AGB cards from the QBus RAM boards, and even if there's a detailed 
inventory, somebody would have to find the *correct* set of characters 
on the silkscreens and look them up.


I feel that just sorting for some kind of coherency and consistently 
labeling all the little parts and pieces, and packing them in stackable 
cartons or tubs, will go a very long way toward making my collection an 
asset to the heirs instead of a giant pain in the butt.



Doc