Re: why is cf_builder so expensive?

[denstar]

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 5:22 PM, Michael Grant wrote:
>
> I can sleep, no worries mate.

The strength of your opinion belies that statement.  You know you lie
awake at night, tossing and turning over this in agony.  Admit it.  =)
...
> I feel masking the use of php on any CF branded Adobe pages (NOT "rewriting
> dozens of apps in CF") could probably be done for under 20k of internal
> resourcing. There's a number of ways to handle this either through code or
> through the webserver. URL rewrite anyone? To me that's a worthwhile
> decision. You may not think so. And that's fine. I won't be recommending you
> for a marketing manager any time soon. ;)

Maybe they're short on webmasters.  Or are worried about the search ranking.  :)

I'll do the rewrites for a mere 10k!

Hell, I'd do it for free, just to never see this raised as a topic
again.  And to avoid that "ugh" feeling whenever I see .php at the end
of a CF-related page.

No offense to PHP, which is a fine language- just less totes awesome than CFML.

...
>
> "Well no one knows their business better than Adobe. They know what they're
> doing much better than you. You are handsome Mr. Grant."
>

You forgot modest.  I always include that in my responses when
speaking of your handsomeness, just for completeness.

:Den

-- 
Happiness: a good bank account, a good cook, and a good digestion.
Jean-Jacques Rousseau

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Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?

[denstar]

On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 9:00 AM, Brian Kotek wrote:
>
> The reality is that Railo and Open BlueDragon are not growing the market for
> CFML. No one is *switching to* CFML from PHP, .NET, Ruby, or Java because of
> the OSS engines. To the extent that this might happen, it is an
> infinitesimally small number of projects. If any of the OSS engines have
> data to contradict that assertion, I'd love to see it.

Railo publishes stats rather regularly.  Mailing list activity, survey
results, etc..

I'm thinking they said that in 100 people who complete the survey on
download, 17 say they're coming from other language.

Not /exactly/ infinitesimal, but it ain't no flood of newbs, neither.

I predict that this number will increase over time.  Maybe even exponentially!

> The OSS engines, particularly Railo, were initially touted as a gateway for
> people working on other platforms, which is why their partnership with JBoss
> created such hope and expectation. This has not happened. What *has*

I for one, was not expecting thousands of new converts within the this
time-span.  =)

JBoss already had Seam, which is in a similar (but not as awesome) space.

As the quality open source CFML applications mature, I think we'll see
more converts.

I have been *very* pleased with the number and quality of open source
CFML projects hitting the streets in the last couple of years though.
I don't know how much that has to do with the entrance of the open
source engines as viable alternatives, but I feel it's factor.  It was
for me, anecdotal-y.

I see the availability of quality open source CFML software as a
forerunner to wider adoption.

Maybe Ray can publish some numbers from RIAForge?  I know Sean put
some data out there, not too long ago, which painted a pretty picture
of the transition from like 5 open source CFML projects to like 50
over the span of a year, or whathaveyou.

I attribute some of that to CFers realizing the *awesome* power of
open source, but again, I think the engine alternatives have gone a
long way towards helping as well.

CFML devs are no longer beholden to some commercial entity's
well-being, which adds a *huge* bit of stability to the language that
was just plain *not there* prior.

> happened is that a small but noticeable number of existing ColdFusion users
> have moved to the OSS engines. As an Adobe Community Professional, I'm privy
> to more "internal" information and direct communication with the Adobe
> employees. The primary drain on the Adobe ColdFusion user base is people
> moving to one of the OSS CFML engines. Not people leaving for PHP or .NET.
> People do leave for other platforms, and new people do come in, but that
> just means that the total size of the CFML community as a whole is fairly
> static in size. And now that total pie is being divided between CF, Railo,
> and OBD.

Perhaps.  Personally, I was about to ditch CFML.  If it wasn't for the
open source engines, I would have.

I don't know how often my story is repeated with others, but I know
I'm not alone.

I don't think we would have been (if indeed we are) "static" in number
without the open source alternatives.

> I personally like most of the individual people involved in the OSS
> projects. I've known many of them for years. So this is not personal at all.
> But if the biggest drain on the ColdFusion user base is coming from the OSS
> engines, then Adobe is absolutely right to treat them as their top
> competitors. To NOT do this would be foolish. If the OSS engines were
> actually pulling in droves of new users from other platforms, this whole
> dynamic would probably be much different. But that is simply not the case.

I don't know about "top".  Unless the "target" is the existing
"static" community, which would seem a rather backwards plan, IMHO.

I look at is as more of a break dancing crew scenario:  We battle each
other to push ourselves, so that we can go out there and form like
Voltron when battling the other "crews" (PHP, .NET, etc.).

It doesn't need to be contentious.  Friendly competition is where it's at, yo.

Anyways, an open engine alone isn't going to pull in droves of people.
 We need that eye-candy (which, I'll add, I feel we're getting, in the
form of quality open source applications) to rope 'em in.

I dunno.  I look at it from a CFML developer's perspective.  If I had
stock in Adobe, perhaps I'd see things differently...  but I doubt it.

For me, it's not about the engine, or sales, or popularity, even.
It's about *us*.  And open source CFML engines are *nothing* but good
for us, as CFML devs, in my opinion.  Somehow, I feel that makes it
good for Adobe, too.

But I could quite possibly be mad as the hatter.  :)

:Den

-- 
God made me and broke the mold.
Jean-Jacques Rousseau

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Re: why is cf_builder so expensive?

[Dave Watts]

> I do wonder though why do so many of you seem to take the tack that if a
> company does (or doesn't do) something that it's both a) a fully thought out
> and analyzed decision and b) the right one.

Maybe, maybe not. I don't think I mentioned a "master plan". What I
did mention, was that they have a better vantage point on their own
business than you or I do. They've almost certainly done more market
research on their business than you or I have - I don't know about
you, but I haven't done any.

If they don't have a master plan, maybe you should be happy - if they
did, it would probably involve one of their other products. Again,
Adobe has a LOT of server products. CF is just one among many.

> Here, let me fill in your responses:

I can do that too:

"I know so much about marketing from my experience with small/midtier
companies in completely different lines of business that I can
accurately make a cost-benefit analysis without any background
information other than my own wild-ass guesses."

That's kind of fun!

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on
GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite.

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Re: Dynamic form fields part two

[Monique Boea]

If anyone is interested here is how I got this to work FINALLY!!





 

INSERT INTO nonproductivetime (
employeeID,
reason,
time,
addedby)
VALUES (
#form["employeeID#i#"]#,
'#form["reason#i#"]#',
#form["time#i#"]#,
'#session.user.username#'
)

 

 






On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 7:46 PM, Monique Boea  wrote:

> Hello all.
>
> I have been trying to figure this out all day. Any assistance would be
> appreciated.
>
> I have a dynamic form that is in grid format:
>
> 
>  cellpadding="5" cellspacing="5">
>   Use the form below to
> enter non-productive time for agents. NOTE: Please enter time as
> minutes
> 
> 
> 
> 
> AGENTREASON
> CODEMINUTES
> 
> 
> 
>  value="#users.employeeID#"> #users.firstname# #users.lastname#
> 
> 
> 
> Personal
> Gone Home
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>  value="submit">
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
> When the form is submitted, I need to be able to insert the variables in
> the db:
>
> I have the following code that I am able to get the values of the form vars
> with but I don't know where to go from here:
>
> 
> 
>
>  
>
>
>   NEQ "FIELDNAMES">
>  #fname# - #form[fname]#
> 
>
>
>
> INSERT INTO nonproductivetime (
>  employeeID,
> code,
> minutes)
> VALUES (
>  ,
>
>  ,
> value="#form[fname]#">
>  )
> 
>
> 
>
>  
>
>
>
>


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RE: Should I build my app as an API?

[andy matthews]

Also, consider looking into ColdBox. It's built from the ground up to allow
for REST:

http://www.simonfree.com/presentations/

-Original Message-
From: Eric Cobb [mailto:cft...@ecartech.com] 
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 8:20 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Should I build my app as an API?


I'm getting ready to start working on what I hope is to become a pretty 
large side project.  Right now I'm in the planning phases, and one of 
the (eventual) plans is to have a full API that others can use to 
interact with the site.  When thinking about this, I came up with an 
idea that I wanted to run by you guys to get some opinions.

Instead of taking the usual approach of building the site like I want 
then adding an API to it, what if I were to just build out the API 
first, then build my site off of that API?  Has anyone ever done this, 
or have any ideas on this?

I'm really hoping to get a good discussion going on this, so please let 
me know what you think!

-- 

Thanks,

Eric Cobb
ECAR Technologies, LLC
http://www.ecartech.com
http://www.cfgears.com





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RE: Should I build my app as an API?

[andy matthews]

Eric...

I like the idea of building out the API from the beginning. That would have
the benefit of having your API almost fully tested before it's publicly
released.

Simon Free has some great presentations on the Do's and Don't's of writing
APIs. Check them out:

http://www.simonfree.com/presentations/



andy

-Original Message-
From: Eric Cobb [mailto:cft...@ecartech.com] 
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 8:20 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Should I build my app as an API?


I'm getting ready to start working on what I hope is to become a pretty 
large side project.  Right now I'm in the planning phases, and one of 
the (eventual) plans is to have a full API that others can use to 
interact with the site.  When thinking about this, I came up with an 
idea that I wanted to run by you guys to get some opinions.

Instead of taking the usual approach of building the site like I want 
then adding an API to it, what if I were to just build out the API 
first, then build my site off of that API?  Has anyone ever done this, 
or have any ideas on this?

I'm really hoping to get a good discussion going on this, so please let 
me know what you think!

-- 

Thanks,

Eric Cobb
ECAR Technologies, LLC
http://www.ecartech.com
http://www.cfgears.com





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Re: Should I build my app as an API?

[Michael Grant]

I've done this approach a number of times and quite like it. The parent site
is just a consumer of your api. You become your own first beta tester and
helps identify issues before you roll out to the public. Plus if you need
changes made you make them directly to the api and not just your own site.
That way you can always be sure what you are experiencing is the same as
what a client is.

+1 for this approach.

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Eric Cobb  wrote:

>
> I'm getting ready to start working on what I hope is to become a pretty
> large side project.  Right now I'm in the planning phases, and one of
> the (eventual) plans is to have a full API that others can use to
> interact with the site.  When thinking about this, I came up with an
> idea that I wanted to run by you guys to get some opinions.
>
> Instead of taking the usual approach of building the site like I want
> then adding an API to it, what if I were to just build out the API
> first, then build my site off of that API?  Has anyone ever done this,
> or have any ideas on this?
>
> I'm really hoping to get a good discussion going on this, so please let
> me know what you think!
>
> --
>
> Thanks,
>
> Eric Cobb
> ECAR Technologies, LLC
> http://www.ecartech.com
> http://www.cfgears.com
>
>
>
> 

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Dynamic form fields part two

[Monique Boea]

Hello all.

I have been trying to figure this out all day. Any assistance would be
appreciated.

I have a dynamic form that is in grid format:



  Use the form below to
enter non-productive time for agents. NOTE: Please enter time as
minutes




AGENTREASON
CODEMINUTES



 #users.firstname# #users.lastname#



Personal
Gone Home














When the form is submitted, I need to be able to insert the variables in the
db:

I have the following code that I am able to get the values of the form vars
with but I don't know where to go from here:




 


 
#fname# - #form[fname]#



   
INSERT INTO nonproductivetime (
 employeeID,
code,
minutes)
VALUES (
 ,

 ,
   
 )







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Re: ajax tutorials for form objects

[Michael Grant]

I generally prefer to use JQuery over CF's built in stuff. I find it to be
more steamlined. Plus I think you can probably find more tuts for the JQuery
approach.

This tut has a nice approach and actually explains ajax a bit. Might be a
good start: http://articles.sitepoint.com/article/ajax-jquery
Ofcourse the JQuery website has great api docs.



On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Teed Younger wrote:

>
> Hi, once again seeking some advice/help with a project. Can anyone direct
> me to a good ajax tutorial that covers how to take form inputs/values and
> then display results using an click event.
>
> What I have is a form with only two inputs. The user types in numeric
> values in each form field, then several mathmatical calculations are
> performed and the results are shown.
>
> Anyway, still very new to ajax, and not even sure I can do this with just a
> simple ajax script, but any nudges in the right direction would be greatly
> appreciated.
>
> 

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Re: why is cf_builder so expensive?

[Michael Grant]

I can sleep, no worries mate.

It does however ring as a shortsighted and an inconsistent message of the
brand. But that's just my opinion as a guy who makes these types of
decisions. Though for much smaller clients than Adobe.

I feel masking the use of php on any CF branded Adobe pages (NOT "rewriting
dozens of apps in CF") could probably be done for under 20k of internal
resourcing. There's a number of ways to handle this either through code or
through the webserver. URL rewrite anyone? To me that's a worthwhile
decision. You may not think so. And that's fine. I won't be recommending you
for a marketing manager any time soon. ;)

I do wonder though why do so many of you seem to take the tack that if a
company does (or doesn't do) something that it's both a) a fully thought out
and analyzed decision and b) the right one. Many many companies, even
monster companies, don't have a consistent corporate message. Many times
things are half thought out if even that. It's not always a master plan as
many here would indicate. "Oh Adobe did x? Well that's clearly because
they've had exhaustive analysis and a master plan." Maybe they do have a
master plan that includes using PHP on CF related pages. If so, I think it's
a poor one.

Here, let me fill in your responses:

"Well no one knows their business better than Adobe. They know what they're
doing much better than you. You are handsome Mr. Grant."


On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 6:54 PM, Russ Michaels  wrote:

>
> Of course Michael we can see the advantage, it just isn;t keeping the rest
> of us awake at night worrying about it. Your also still missing the point I
> think. Sometimes it is simply not viable, economical, a good business
> decision etc to do what you want.
>
> If you have the choice between a solution that can be deployed right now or
> a solution that would take 12 months work and cost you shed loads of money,
> which do you choose?
> OK so you would probably choose the 12 month loads of $ solution, but in
> those 12 months you have nothing running and are missing out on potential
> business.
>
> And as has been pointed out, most of Adobe's site is actually written in
> CF.
> Honestly I think you are in a very small minority of people who cannot
> sleep
> because part of Adobe's site is not in CF.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Michael Grant [mailto:mgr...@modus.bz]
> Sent: 28 January 2011 23:43
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: Re: why is cf_builder so expensive?
>
>
> Am I in bizarro land? No one can see an advantage to (as others have
> stated)
> eating your own dog food?
>
> Before you know it Steve Jobs will be telling me to use Windows.
>
> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Russ Michaels 
> wrote:
>
> >
> > I don't really think your analogy is relevant, No company would change
> > their
> > logo just because a couple of people don't like it but hat is hardly even
> > similar. I know enough about marketing to know that you need a good
> > business
> > case to warrant spending lots of cash and man hours on something, it
> needs
> > to be a viable idea in some way, either to drive sales, profit, brand
> > awareness. Usually "Because 3 people thinks it is a good idea", would not
> > be
> > considered a good business decision.
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Michael Grant [mailto:mgr...@modus.bz]
> > Sent: 28 January 2011 14:11
> > To: cf-talk
> > Subject: Re: why is cf_builder so expensive?
> >
> >
> > I've already explained why to bother. The same argument could be made
> about
> > "Why bother changing a logo or a corporate brand?" I doubt any company
> gets
> > thousands of complaints about their current brand or logo. The reason is
> > optics. If you aren't into marketing you likely won't "get" it.
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 9:07 AM, Russ Michaels 
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Yes but why bother? I'm sure if they were getting thousands of
> > > complaints then they would do so just for some peace and quiet, but my
> > > bet is that not many people really care.
> > > My old cfdeveloper.co.uk  site ran on ASP because I found a community
> > > portal app that did the job, I received the odd comment from people
> > > because it was ASP and not CFML, but out of the thousands of members
> > > the site had, this was insignificant and not enough to bother me or
> > > warrant me changing it.
> > >
> > > Russ
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Michael Grant [mailto:mgr...@modus.bz]
> > > Sent: 28 January 2011 14:00
> > > To: cf-talk
> > > Subject: Re: why is cf_builder so expensive?
> > >
> > >
> > > Fair enough. Though it's still kind of missing my point. My point is
> > > that is Adobe doesn't use CF it should at least mask the use of other
> > > technologies.
> > > That's easy to do and fairly cheap. You can _look_ like you aren't
> > > using php without much trouble.
> > >
> > > On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Russ Michaels 
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Wow, this is way off topic now eh!
> > > >

RE: why is cf_builder so expensive?

[Russ Michaels]

Of course Michael we can see the advantage, it just isn;t keeping the rest
of us awake at night worrying about it. Your also still missing the point I
think. Sometimes it is simply not viable, economical, a good business
decision etc to do what you want.

If you have the choice between a solution that can be deployed right now or
a solution that would take 12 months work and cost you shed loads of money,
which do you choose?
OK so you would probably choose the 12 month loads of $ solution, but in
those 12 months you have nothing running and are missing out on potential
business.

And as has been pointed out, most of Adobe's site is actually written in CF.
Honestly I think you are in a very small minority of people who cannot sleep
because part of Adobe's site is not in CF.

-Original Message-
From: Michael Grant [mailto:mgr...@modus.bz] 
Sent: 28 January 2011 23:43
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: why is cf_builder so expensive?


Am I in bizarro land? No one can see an advantage to (as others have stated)
eating your own dog food?

Before you know it Steve Jobs will be telling me to use Windows.

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Russ Michaels  wrote:

>
> I don't really think your analogy is relevant, No company would change
> their
> logo just because a couple of people don't like it but hat is hardly even
> similar. I know enough about marketing to know that you need a good
> business
> case to warrant spending lots of cash and man hours on something, it needs
> to be a viable idea in some way, either to drive sales, profit, brand
> awareness. Usually "Because 3 people thinks it is a good idea", would not
> be
> considered a good business decision.
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Michael Grant [mailto:mgr...@modus.bz]
> Sent: 28 January 2011 14:11
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: Re: why is cf_builder so expensive?
>
>
> I've already explained why to bother. The same argument could be made
about
> "Why bother changing a logo or a corporate brand?" I doubt any company
gets
> thousands of complaints about their current brand or logo. The reason is
> optics. If you aren't into marketing you likely won't "get" it.
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 9:07 AM, Russ Michaels 
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Yes but why bother? I'm sure if they were getting thousands of
> > complaints then they would do so just for some peace and quiet, but my
> > bet is that not many people really care.
> > My old cfdeveloper.co.uk  site ran on ASP because I found a community
> > portal app that did the job, I received the odd comment from people
> > because it was ASP and not CFML, but out of the thousands of members
> > the site had, this was insignificant and not enough to bother me or
> > warrant me changing it.
> >
> > Russ
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Michael Grant [mailto:mgr...@modus.bz]
> > Sent: 28 January 2011 14:00
> > To: cf-talk
> > Subject: Re: why is cf_builder so expensive?
> >
> >
> > Fair enough. Though it's still kind of missing my point. My point is
> > that is Adobe doesn't use CF it should at least mask the use of other
> > technologies.
> > That's easy to do and fairly cheap. You can _look_ like you aren't
> > using php without much trouble.
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Russ Michaels 
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Wow, this is way off topic now eh!
> > >
> > >
> > > There is a well known saying "use the best tool for the job". And as
> > > Dave will agree, CF is not always the best tool for the job, and I
> > > guess Adobe themselves even know that, even Microsoft don't claim
> > > that Winodws/IIS is the best solution for every job.
> > >
> > > For example, If I want to write a custom app from scratch, or it
> > > needs to be something I can easily update myself then I would use CF
> > > every time of course as I know CF and I love CF.
> > > However if I simply want an App that does a specific/common job and
> > > I don't plan to get my own hands dirty in the code, I will first
> > > look to the open source world, and usually I will find a PHP solution.
> > > For example, if you wanted to build a social networking community
> > > then there is really nothing like this for CF, you would have to
> > > write it yourself, which is a lot of work/time/cost. Or you could go
> > > and download ELGG, Dolphin or one of the many well-known PHP
> > > solutions and be up and running in no time.
> > > If you have the time and thousands of $ available to roll your own
> > > exactly how you want, then awesome, otherwise it is really a no
> > > brainer. And this particular scenario covers so many apps and
> > > situations, if you have a client who doesn't have the budget for you
> > > to write a CF solution and there is no open source CF solution, what
> > > do you do? Look outside the box for a solution that will fit the
> > > job/budget.
> > >
> > > It would be gr8 if CF had as many open source apps as PHP, but
> > > CFdevelopers tend to want to be paid for their work, which I guess
> > > is only fai

Re: why is cf_builder so expensive?

[Michael Grant]

Am I in bizarro land? No one can see an advantage to (as others have stated)
eating your own dog food?

Before you know it Steve Jobs will be telling me to use Windows.

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:44 AM, Russ Michaels  wrote:

>
> I don't really think your analogy is relevant, No company would change
> their
> logo just because a couple of people don't like it but hat is hardly even
> similar. I know enough about marketing to know that you need a good
> business
> case to warrant spending lots of cash and man hours on something, it needs
> to be a viable idea in some way, either to drive sales, profit, brand
> awareness. Usually "Because 3 people thinks it is a good idea", would not
> be
> considered a good business decision.
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Michael Grant [mailto:mgr...@modus.bz]
> Sent: 28 January 2011 14:11
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: Re: why is cf_builder so expensive?
>
>
> I've already explained why to bother. The same argument could be made about
> "Why bother changing a logo or a corporate brand?" I doubt any company gets
> thousands of complaints about their current brand or logo. The reason is
> optics. If you aren't into marketing you likely won't "get" it.
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 9:07 AM, Russ Michaels 
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Yes but why bother? I'm sure if they were getting thousands of
> > complaints then they would do so just for some peace and quiet, but my
> > bet is that not many people really care.
> > My old cfdeveloper.co.uk  site ran on ASP because I found a community
> > portal app that did the job, I received the odd comment from people
> > because it was ASP and not CFML, but out of the thousands of members
> > the site had, this was insignificant and not enough to bother me or
> > warrant me changing it.
> >
> > Russ
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Michael Grant [mailto:mgr...@modus.bz]
> > Sent: 28 January 2011 14:00
> > To: cf-talk
> > Subject: Re: why is cf_builder so expensive?
> >
> >
> > Fair enough. Though it's still kind of missing my point. My point is
> > that is Adobe doesn't use CF it should at least mask the use of other
> > technologies.
> > That's easy to do and fairly cheap. You can _look_ like you aren't
> > using php without much trouble.
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Russ Michaels 
> > wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Wow, this is way off topic now eh!
> > >
> > >
> > > There is a well known saying "use the best tool for the job". And as
> > > Dave will agree, CF is not always the best tool for the job, and I
> > > guess Adobe themselves even know that, even Microsoft don't claim
> > > that Winodws/IIS is the best solution for every job.
> > >
> > > For example, If I want to write a custom app from scratch, or it
> > > needs to be something I can easily update myself then I would use CF
> > > every time of course as I know CF and I love CF.
> > > However if I simply want an App that does a specific/common job and
> > > I don't plan to get my own hands dirty in the code, I will first
> > > look to the open source world, and usually I will find a PHP solution.
> > > For example, if you wanted to build a social networking community
> > > then there is really nothing like this for CF, you would have to
> > > write it yourself, which is a lot of work/time/cost. Or you could go
> > > and download ELGG, Dolphin or one of the many well-known PHP
> > > solutions and be up and running in no time.
> > > If you have the time and thousands of $ available to roll your own
> > > exactly how you want, then awesome, otherwise it is really a no
> > > brainer. And this particular scenario covers so many apps and
> > > situations, if you have a client who doesn't have the budget for you
> > > to write a CF solution and there is no open source CF solution, what
> > > do you do? Look outside the box for a solution that will fit the
> > > job/budget.
> > >
> > > It would be gr8 if CF had as many open source apps as PHP, but
> > > CFdevelopers tend to want to be paid for their work, which I guess
> > > is only fair if they had to pay for CF, plus of course the
> > > proportion of cfdeveloper compared to php developers is tiny, so
> > > clearly there is not as many people out there with the time or
> > > inclination to write OSS apps.
> > > Perhaps Railo/OBD will change this, but not by very much I reckon.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwa...@figleaf.com]
> > > Sent: 28 January 2011 06:40
> > > To: cf-talk
> > > Subject: Re: why is cf_builder so expensive?
> > >
> > >
> > > > This isn't actually true at all, Dave. To give one high profile
> > > > example, take Hotmail. Microsoft got a huge amount of shit for the
> > > > fact that Hotmail ran on Linux (or BSD? I think BSD) with Apache.
> > > > Sure, they bought Hotmail and that was the primary reason. But
> > > > people kept saying "oh, Windows and IIS can't handle the load so
> > > > they have to stick with BSD".  There were plenty of tech 

RE: Coldfusion Hosting

[William Seiter]

Yeah, you're dreaming.  But you can check out gearhost.com.  I moved to them
a couple years ago and have never had a problem creating robust OO based
coldfusion 8 websites there.

William

-Original Message-
From: Adam Bourg [mailto:adam.bo...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 10:49 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Coldfusion Hosting


Can anyone recommend a decent yet cheap web host for ColdFusion? 

Right now I'm hosting my site at DreamHost (Simple wordpress as CMS site). 

I'm looking for
SQL
PHP 5
and Coldfusion 8 support
all under $6. 

Am I dreaming? 



~|
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http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion
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RE: Coldfusion Hosting

[Rick Eidson]

Hostek.com 

Setup a Reseller account for $25 and you get 5 sites... Then each site is
$5. They have been great, I have been with them for many years now. 



Rick

-Original Message-
From: Eric Roberts [mailto:ow...@threeravensconsulting.com] 
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 2:13 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: RE: Coldfusion Hosting


Depends on your needs...if you don't mind having your wings clipped a bit,
places like GoDaddy are pretty good...but there are restrictions on the tags
that can be used.

-Original Message-
From: Eric Cobb [mailto:cft...@ecartech.com] 
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 13:02 
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Coldfusion Hosting


To quote our great Jedi Master:

"You probably won't find a 5 dollar a month hosting option for CF like you
can with PHP. But basing your business on a host that charges as much as an
imported beer is probably not a good idea."

(quote can be found in the comments here: 
http://net.tutsplus.com/tutorials/other/rapid-development-with-coldfusion-an
d-cfml/)


Thanks,

Eric Cobb
ECAR Technologies, LLC
http://www.ecartech.com
http://www.cfgears.com


On 1/28/2011 12:49 PM, Adam Bourg wrote:
> Can anyone recommend a decent yet cheap web host for ColdFusion?
>
> Right now I'm hosting my site at DreamHost (Simple wordpress as CMS site).
>
> I'm looking for
> SQL
> PHP 5
> and Coldfusion 8 support
> all under $6.
>
> Am I dreaming?
>
> 





~|
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RE: Subtracting two dates

[Bobby Hartsfield]

Note that there is a datediff in SQL Server as well. It works the same way,
just slightly different dateparts
 
.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.:.
Bobby Hartsfield
http://acoderslife.com

 
-Original Message-
From: Charlie Griefer [mailto:charlie.grie...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 1:55 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Subtracting two dates


On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:45 AM, Adam Bourg  wrote:
>
> I'm trying to figure out how to subtract two dates and return the number
of days between then.
>
> My dates are cprAdultExp, which is a database column, I typically write it
as: #dateformat(cprAdultExp,"mm/dd/")#
>
> The other is Now()
> Which I also format as: #dateformat(Now(),"mm/dd/")#
>
> What's the easy way to do this?

http://www.cfquickdocs.com/cf9/#datediff

-- 
Charlie Griefer
http://charlie.griefer.com/

I have failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my life. I love
my wife. And I wish you my kind of success.



~|
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RE: Coldfusion Hosting

[Eric Roberts]

Depends on your needs...if you don't mind having your wings clipped a bit,
places like GoDaddy are pretty good...but there are restrictions on the tags
that can be used.

-Original Message-
From: Eric Cobb [mailto:cft...@ecartech.com] 
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 13:02 
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Coldfusion Hosting


To quote our great Jedi Master:

"You probably won't find a 5 dollar a month hosting option for CF like you
can with PHP. But basing your business on a host that charges as much as an
imported beer is probably not a good idea."

(quote can be found in the comments here: 
http://net.tutsplus.com/tutorials/other/rapid-development-with-coldfusion-an
d-cfml/)


Thanks,

Eric Cobb
ECAR Technologies, LLC
http://www.ecartech.com
http://www.cfgears.com


On 1/28/2011 12:49 PM, Adam Bourg wrote:
> Can anyone recommend a decent yet cheap web host for ColdFusion?
>
> Right now I'm hosting my site at DreamHost (Simple wordpress as CMS site).
>
> I'm looking for
> SQL
> PHP 5
> and Coldfusion 8 support
> all under $6.
>
> Am I dreaming?
>
> 



~|
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Re: Coldfusion Hosting

[Guust Nieuwenhuis]

I'm hosting my websites at Hostek on a reseller account and until now I'm very 
happy with them.


Kind regards,

Guust Nieuwenhuis



On 28 Jan 2011, at 20:57, "Andrew Scott"  wrote:

> 
> +1 for Hostek, I have the $25 package.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Andrew Scott
> http://www.andyscott.id.au/
> 
> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Casey Dougall [mailto:ca...@uberwebsitesolutions.com]
>> Sent: Saturday, 29 January 2011 6:07 AM
>> To: cf-talk
>> Subject: Re: Coldfusion Hosting
>> 
>> 
>> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Adam Bourg 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> Can anyone recommend a decent yet cheap web host for ColdFusion?
>>> 
>>> Right now I'm hosting my site at DreamHost (Simple wordpress as CMS
>> site).
>>> 
>>> I'm looking for
>>> SQL
>>> PHP 5
>>> and Coldfusion 8 support
>>> all under $6.
>>> 
>>> Am I dreaming?
>>> 
>>> 
>> 
>> http://hostek.com/hosting/coldfusion/coldfusion-hosting.asp
>> 
>> Decent enough for your budget... I use them for some sites, they do ok for
>> me.
>> 
>> 
>> ~~
>> ~~~|
>> Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now!
>> http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-
>> Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion
>> Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-
>> talk/message.cfm/messageid:341651
>> Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm
>> Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-
>> talk/unsubscribe.cfm
> 
> 
> 

~|
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RE: ajax tutorials for form objects

[Andrew Scott]

So you want to use Ajax to go to the server and get some results?

Have a look at ColdFusions cfAjaxProxy tag.


Regards,
Andrew Scott
http://www.andyscott.id.au/


> -Original Message-
> From: Teed Younger [mailto:teedyoun...@hotmail.com]
> Sent: Saturday, 29 January 2011 6:22 AM
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: ajax tutorials for form objects
> 
> 
> Hi, once again seeking some advice/help with a project. Can anyone direct
> me to a good ajax tutorial that covers how to take form inputs/values and
> then display results using an click event.
> 
> What I have is a form with only two inputs. The user types in numeric
values
> in each form field, then several mathmatical calculations are performed
and
> the results are shown.
> 
> Anyway, still very new to ajax, and not even sure I can do this with just
a
> simple ajax script, but any nudges in the right direction would be greatly
> appreciated.
> 
> ~~
> ~~~|
> Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now!
> http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-
> Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion
> Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-
> talk/message.cfm/messageid:341665
> Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm
> Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-
> talk/unsubscribe.cfm


~|
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RE: Coldfusion Hosting

[Andrew Scott]

+1 for Hostek, I have the $25 package.


Regards,
Andrew Scott
http://www.andyscott.id.au/


> -Original Message-
> From: Casey Dougall [mailto:ca...@uberwebsitesolutions.com]
> Sent: Saturday, 29 January 2011 6:07 AM
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: Re: Coldfusion Hosting
> 
> 
> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Adam Bourg 
> wrote:
> 
> >
> > Can anyone recommend a decent yet cheap web host for ColdFusion?
> >
> > Right now I'm hosting my site at DreamHost (Simple wordpress as CMS
> site).
> >
> > I'm looking for
> > SQL
> > PHP 5
> > and Coldfusion 8 support
> > all under $6.
> >
> > Am I dreaming?
> >
> >
> 
> http://hostek.com/hosting/coldfusion/coldfusion-hosting.asp
> 
> Decent enough for your budget... I use them for some sites, they do ok for
> me.
> 
> 
> ~~
> ~~~|
> Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now!
> http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-
> Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion
> Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-
> talk/message.cfm/messageid:341651
> Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm
> Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-
> talk/unsubscribe.cfm


~|
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Re: Coldfusion Hosting

[Teed Younger]

http://www.crystaltech.com is very good. Its $17 a month, but their customer 
support MORE than makes up for the cost. They do have cheaper plans, but I 
think thats the cheapest plan with a CF server.


>Can anyone recommend a decent yet cheap web host for ColdFusion? 
>
>Right now I'm hosting my site at DreamHost (Simple wordpress as CMS site). 
>
>I'm looking for
>SQL
>PHP 5
>and Coldfusion 8 support
>all under $6. 
>
>Am I dreaming? 

~|
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Re: Coldfusion Hosting

[Peter Donahue]

Hello again everyone,

That sounds like an example of what I'm dealing with Host Department. 
Maybe those guys have a reseller account hosted by them which would explain 
the page weirdness.

Peter Donahue


- Original Message - 
From: "Charlie Griefer" 
To: "cf-talk" 
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 1:10 PM
Subject: Re: Coldfusion Hosting



Weird.  Comes up for me.  Came up for me a few minutes ago (I brought
the site up to check the price).  Hmm...

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 12:09 PM, DURETTE, STEVEN J (ATTASIAIT)
 wrote:
>
> That's funny, http://hostingatoz.com/ returns "FORBIDDEN" You don't have
> permission to access/ on this server!
>
> Steve
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Charlie Griefer [mailto:charlie.grie...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 2:03 PM
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: Re: Coldfusion Hosting
>
>
> Well, if you believe in the old adage of "you get what you pay for"...
> then "decent" and "cheap" are mutually exclusive :)
>
> That being said... since "decent" is a subjective term (altho I guess
> "cheap" is as well), a while back I hosted my blog at
> http://hostingatoz.com/. Their most expensive package (which includes
> ColdFusion 8) is $75 a year.
>
> When I was with them, it was... "decent". There were downtimes, but I
> sort of expected that going into a $75/yr host. I will say the
> downtimes weren't nearly as frequent as I expected, and the support
> was very good, at least in terms of responsiveness.
>
> I know others who used them (some at my recommendation back then), who
> didn't have as good of an experience.
>
> At $75/yr, you takes your chances :)
>
>
>



~|
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ajax tutorials for form objects

[Teed Younger]

Hi, once again seeking some advice/help with a project. Can anyone direct me to 
a good ajax tutorial that covers how to take form inputs/values and then 
display results using an click event.

What I have is a form with only two inputs. The user types in numeric values in 
each form field, then several mathmatical calculations are performed and the 
results are shown.

Anyway, still very new to ajax, and not even sure I can do this with just a 
simple ajax script, but any nudges in the right direction would be greatly 
appreciated. 

~|
Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now!
http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion
Archive: 
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Host Department Issues

[Peter Donahue]

Good afternoon everyone,

It's good to be back on this list and delving in to ColdFusion once 
more. I dropped out-of-sight due to a recent move but am glad to be back in 
the fold.

I'm curious to know if any of you have Web sites hosted on 
http://www.hostdepartment.com and are experiencing the same madness I've 
been dealing with since they upgraded their H-Sphere CP to a newer version?

I have a client's site hosted along with mine under their reseller plan. 
The client site was working properly prior to the CP upgrade. Now we're 
getting everything but our home pages. I've contacted their tech support. 
They told me they could view her site pages on their end but we can't get 
them to come up state-side. This is happening with various Web browsers on 
several computers in at least two sites, in two states,  and on different 
ISPS. I had Time-Warner check to see if HD'S IP address was blocked but they 
told me it was not.

 HD currently offers CFMX. I'm using index.cfm as my default home page and 
checked to be sure all site files were in the proper folder on the server. 
For some reason they're server is failing to locate the correct default home 
page. HD's tech support has not been fourth-coming in telling me if there is 
anything I need to do within the plan or her account to set the correct 
default home page so it displays once more. If any of you want to see what's 
going on for yourselves here are the site links:
URL: http://www.shellbells.net
Direct URL to default home page: http://www.shellbells.net/index.cfm


I was told to contact HD's server support but have yet to receive any 
answer from them. Mean while neither of us can view our Web sites.
We're getting very frustrated and I am about to pull the plug and find 
another hosting company if they don't get the site working very soon. Right 
now I'm paying around $30.00 per month and want to stay in that range. I've 
been looking at various hosting providers and see I can get a reseller plan 
for about the same monthly price. Some of these include CF9 hosting. . If 
push comes to shove and I can get hosting that includes CF9 I guess I can't 
complain. I wanted to see if any of you are experiencing similar issues with 
Host Department since the January 22, 2011 CP upgrade and if you've found a 
fix for them. All the best.

Peter Donahue


~|
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Re: Coldfusion Hosting

[Monique Boea]

I pay $15.99/month at A to Z hosting.



On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 2:21 PM, Charlie Griefer
wrote:

>
> When you're paying $75 a year for CF hosting, you don't get the luxury
> of folks getting to see it in multiple browsers :D
>
> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 12:16 PM, DURETTE, STEVEN J (ATTASIAIT)
>  wrote:
> >
> > Strange it came up for me in Firefox, but my Corporate version of IE8
> > gets the following error:
> >
> > Forbidden
> > You don't have permission to access / on this server.
> >
> > Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use
> > an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Charlie Griefer [mailto:charlie.grie...@gmail.com]
> > Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 2:10 PM
> > To: cf-talk
> > Subject: Re: Coldfusion Hosting
> >
> >
> > Weird.  Comes up for me.  Came up for me a few minutes ago (I brought
> > the site up to check the price).  Hmm...
> >
> >
>
> 

~|
Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now!
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Re: Coldfusion Hosting

[Charlie Griefer]

When you're paying $75 a year for CF hosting, you don't get the luxury
of folks getting to see it in multiple browsers :D

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 12:16 PM, DURETTE, STEVEN J (ATTASIAIT)
 wrote:
>
> Strange it came up for me in Firefox, but my Corporate version of IE8
> gets the following error:
>
> Forbidden
> You don't have permission to access / on this server.
>
> Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use
> an ErrorDocument to handle the request.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Charlie Griefer [mailto:charlie.grie...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 2:10 PM
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: Re: Coldfusion Hosting
>
>
> Weird.  Comes up for me.  Came up for me a few minutes ago (I brought
> the site up to check the price).  Hmm...
>
> 

~|
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RE: Insert without checking existance

[DURETTE, STEVEN J (ATTASIAIT)]

We have SQL2005 and SQL2008 servers. When we went to 2005 I thought
"This is great", with 2008 I think "How did I do this before"!

The MERGE function is really nice. It's also nice to be able to declare
a variable and set its value all in one statement.

Example:
2005 (and before):
declare @today datetime;
select @today = getDate();

2008:
Declare @today datetime = getDate();

I keep coming across new stuff that I like as well. Just don't have time
to read through all the changes and play with them until I need them.

Steve


-Original Message-
From: Michael Dinowitz [mailto:mdino...@houseoffusion.com] 
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 2:13 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Insert without checking existance


MSSQL 2000.
While this is for a client, a lot of what I'm doing here is going to
applied
to my own stuff. The client will be moving to MSSQL 2008 soon but I'm
assessing if I can stay on MSSQL 2000, can move to MSSQL 2008, or should
just move over to MySQL for my own stuff.

The licensing on MSSQL 2008 is kind of high, but it ranks high on my
personal priority scale.

As a total aside, I rank CFBuilder low on the scale as it doesn't give
me
more than I have with Homesite/CFEclipse. I'll reassess when the next
release comes out.


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Re: Grid like form with multiple inserts

[Monique Boea]

 *So each time the form is submitted, you'll be inserting new records into
a database table?  *

Yes


*Also, the first input is a checkbox that passes the
users.employeeID if checked - what is the expected value if the checkbox
is not checked?*

If its not checked it won't be submitted.

The structure of the table is simple. I just need to insert three columns.


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Re: Grid like form with multiple inserts

[Monique Boea]

*So each time the form is submitted, you'll be inserting new records into
a database table?  *

Yes


*Also, the first input is a checkbox that passes the
users.employeeID if checked - what is the expected value if the checkbox
is not checked?*

If its not checked it won't be submitted.



On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 2:12 PM, Carl Von Stetten
wrote:

>
> So each time the form is submitted, you'll be inserting new records into
> a database table?  Also, the first input is a checkbox that passes the
> users.employeeID if checked - what is the expected value if the checkbox
> is not checked?
>
> What is the structure of the table you are inserting to?
>
> On 1/28/2011 10:46 AM, Monique Boea wrote:
> > New records. See code below.
> >
> > I need to parse through the submitted fields to insert them.
> >
> > I think I am making it much harder then what it is but I'm SO stuck.
> >
> > Here's the code that I am working with to process the form fields:
> >
> > 
> >  
> >  
> >   "">#Evaluate("form[fname]"&
> > i)#
> >  
> >  
> >
> > 
> >
> >
> > Here's the form
> >
> >
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >  value="#users.employeeID#">
> > #users.firstname# #users.lastname#
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Personal
> > Preceptor
> > Senior Resource Nurse
> > Special Project-Phone
> > System Down Time
> > Training-In Person
> > Training: Phone
> > Client Training Phone
> > Peer To Peer
> Consultation
> > Gone Home
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> >
> > On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 1:43 PM, Carl Von Stetten
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Some more information might be helpful.  Can we see the code of the form
> >> itself?  Also, are you just inserting new records into your database, or
> >> editing existing records?
> >>
> >> On 1/28/2011 10:34 AM, Monique Boea wrote:
> >>> Any sample code for a grid-like form?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 8:16 PM, Monique Boea
> >>   wrote:
> Hello All
> 
>  I have a form which is design like an excel spreadsheet with about 60
> >> input
>  rows.
> 
>  The user may enter values for some and not the others.
> 
>  I am stuck on entering the values into the database.
> 
>  I use the following code to loop through the forms vars but don't know
>  where to go after this.
> 
>  
>  
> #key# = #form[key]#
>  
>  
> 
> 
>  Any suggestions?
> 
>  P.S. Thank you guys for all of your help. It is appreciated.
> 
> >>>
> >>
> >
>
> 

~|
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RE: Coldfusion Hosting

[DURETTE, STEVEN J (ATTASIAIT)]

Strange it came up for me in Firefox, but my Corporate version of IE8
gets the following error:

Forbidden
You don't have permission to access / on this server.

Additionally, a 404 Not Found error was encountered while trying to use
an ErrorDocument to handle the request.

-Original Message-
From: Charlie Griefer [mailto:charlie.grie...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 2:10 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Coldfusion Hosting


Weird.  Comes up for me.  Came up for me a few minutes ago (I brought
the site up to check the price).  Hmm...

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Re: Coldfusion Hosting

[Kelly Matthews]

Not dreaming you can get that at Hostek but you will get what you pay for, 
their servers seem to get a bit bogged down at times.


>Can anyone recommend a decent yet cheap web host for ColdFusion? 
>
>Right now I'm hosting my site at DreamHost (Simple wordpress as CMS site). 
>
>I'm looking for
>SQL
>PHP 5
>and Coldfusion 8 support
>all under $6. 
>
>Am I dreaming? 

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Re: Insert without checking existance

[Michael Dinowitz]

MSSQL 2000.
While this is for a client, a lot of what I'm doing here is going to applied
to my own stuff. The client will be moving to MSSQL 2008 soon but I'm
assessing if I can stay on MSSQL 2000, can move to MSSQL 2008, or should
just move over to MySQL for my own stuff.

The licensing on MSSQL 2008 is kind of high, but it ranks high on my
personal priority scale.

As a total aside, I rank CFBuilder low on the scale as it doesn't give me
more than I have with Homesite/CFEclipse. I'll reassess when the next
release comes out.




On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 1:24 PM, DURETTE, STEVEN J (ATTASIAIT) <
sd1...@att.com> wrote:

>
> So just out of curiosity, is this on a SQL 2008 box?  If so then you can
> use merge and give different options for insert or update (even delete
> if you want)
>
> Steve
>
>
> 

~|
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Re: Grid like form with multiple inserts

[Carl Von Stetten]

So each time the form is submitted, you'll be inserting new records into 
a database table?  Also, the first input is a checkbox that passes the 
users.employeeID if checked - what is the expected value if the checkbox 
is not checked?

What is the structure of the table you are inserting to?

On 1/28/2011 10:46 AM, Monique Boea wrote:
> New records. See code below.
>
> I need to parse through the submitted fields to insert them.
>
> I think I am making it much harder then what it is but I'm SO stuck.
>
> Here's the code that I am working with to process the form fields:
>
> 
>  
>  
>  #Evaluate("form[fname]"&
> i)#
>  
>  
>
> 
>
>
> Here's the form
>
>
> 
> 
> 
> 
> #users.firstname# #users.lastname#
> 
> 
> 
> Personal
> Preceptor
> Senior Resource Nurse
> Special Project-Phone
> System Down Time
> Training-In Person
> Training: Phone
> Client Training Phone
> Peer To Peer Consultation
> Gone Home
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>
> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 1:43 PM, Carl Von Stetten
> wrote:
>
>> Some more information might be helpful.  Can we see the code of the form
>> itself?  Also, are you just inserting new records into your database, or
>> editing existing records?
>>
>> On 1/28/2011 10:34 AM, Monique Boea wrote:
>>> Any sample code for a grid-like form?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 8:16 PM, Monique Boea
>>   wrote:
Hello All

 I have a form which is design like an excel spreadsheet with about 60
>> input
 rows.

 The user may enter values for some and not the others.

 I am stuck on entering the values into the database.

 I use the following code to loop through the forms vars but don't know
 where to go after this.

 
 
#key# = #form[key]#
 
 


 Any suggestions?

 P.S. Thank you guys for all of your help. It is appreciated.

>>>
>>
> 

~|
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Re: Coldfusion Hosting

[Charlie Griefer]

Weird.  Comes up for me.  Came up for me a few minutes ago (I brought
the site up to check the price).  Hmm...

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 12:09 PM, DURETTE, STEVEN J (ATTASIAIT)
 wrote:
>
> That's funny, http://hostingatoz.com/ returns "FORBIDDEN" You don't have
> permission to access/ on this server!
>
> Steve
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Charlie Griefer [mailto:charlie.grie...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 2:03 PM
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: Re: Coldfusion Hosting
>
>
> Well, if you believe in the old adage of "you get what you pay for"...
> then "decent" and "cheap" are mutually exclusive :)
>
> That being said... since "decent" is a subjective term (altho I guess
> "cheap" is as well), a while back I hosted my blog at
> http://hostingatoz.com/.  Their most expensive package (which includes
> ColdFusion 8) is $75 a year.
>
> When I was with them, it was... "decent".  There were downtimes, but I
> sort of expected that going into a $75/yr host.  I will say the
> downtimes weren't nearly as frequent as I expected, and the support
> was very good, at least in terms of responsiveness.
>
> I know others who used them (some at my recommendation back then), who
> didn't have as good of an experience.
>
> At $75/yr, you takes your chances :)
>
>
> 

~|
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Re: Subtracting two dates

[rex]

As Charlie and Brian have pointed out, you can use that on the CF side.

You can also do on the SQL side, so since you are presumably getting 
cprAdultExp from a query anyway, it'll save some processing cycles hehe

SELECT cprAdultExp, DATEDIFF(DAY, cprAdultExp, GETDATE()) AS 
NumberOfDaysInBetween FROM tableX


On 1/28/2011 10:55 AM, Charlie Griefer wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:45 AM, Adam Bourg  wrote:
>> I'm trying to figure out how to subtract two dates and return the number of 
>> days between then.
>>
>> My dates are cprAdultExp, which is a database column, I typically write it 
>> as: #dateformat(cprAdultExp,"mm/dd/")#
>>
>> The other is Now()
>> Which I also format as: #dateformat(Now(),"mm/dd/")#
>>
>> What's the easy way to do this?
> http://www.cfquickdocs.com/cf9/#datediff
>

~|
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RE: Coldfusion Hosting

[DURETTE, STEVEN J (ATTASIAIT)]

That's funny, http://hostingatoz.com/ returns "FORBIDDEN" You don't have
permission to access/ on this server!

Steve

-Original Message-
From: Charlie Griefer [mailto:charlie.grie...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 2:03 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Coldfusion Hosting


Well, if you believe in the old adage of "you get what you pay for"...
then "decent" and "cheap" are mutually exclusive :)

That being said... since "decent" is a subjective term (altho I guess
"cheap" is as well), a while back I hosted my blog at
http://hostingatoz.com/.  Their most expensive package (which includes
ColdFusion 8) is $75 a year.

When I was with them, it was... "decent".  There were downtimes, but I
sort of expected that going into a $75/yr host.  I will say the
downtimes weren't nearly as frequent as I expected, and the support
was very good, at least in terms of responsiveness.

I know others who used them (some at my recommendation back then), who
didn't have as good of an experience.

At $75/yr, you takes your chances :)


~|
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Re: Coldfusion Hosting

[Casey Dougall]

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 1:49 PM, Adam Bourg  wrote:

>
> Can anyone recommend a decent yet cheap web host for ColdFusion?
>
> Right now I'm hosting my site at DreamHost (Simple wordpress as CMS site).
>
> I'm looking for
> SQL
> PHP 5
> and Coldfusion 8 support
> all under $6.
>
> Am I dreaming?
>
>

http://hostek.com/hosting/coldfusion/coldfusion-hosting.asp

Decent enough for your budget... I use them for some sites, they do ok for
me.


~|
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Re: Coldfusion Hosting

[Charlie Griefer]

Well, if you believe in the old adage of "you get what you pay for"...
then "decent" and "cheap" are mutually exclusive :)

That being said... since "decent" is a subjective term (altho I guess
"cheap" is as well), a while back I hosted my blog at
http://hostingatoz.com/.  Their most expensive package (which includes
ColdFusion 8) is $75 a year.

When I was with them, it was... "decent".  There were downtimes, but I
sort of expected that going into a $75/yr host.  I will say the
downtimes weren't nearly as frequent as I expected, and the support
was very good, at least in terms of responsiveness.

I know others who used them (some at my recommendation back then), who
didn't have as good of an experience.

At $75/yr, you takes your chances :)

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:49 AM, Adam Bourg  wrote:
>
> Can anyone recommend a decent yet cheap web host for ColdFusion?
>
> Right now I'm hosting my site at DreamHost (Simple wordpress as CMS site).
>
> I'm looking for
> SQL
> PHP 5
> and Coldfusion 8 support
> all under $6.
>
> Am I dreaming?
>
> 

~|
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Re: Coldfusion Hosting

[Eric Cobb]

To quote our great Jedi Master:

"You probably won't find a 5 dollar a month hosting option for CF like 
you can with PHP. But basing your business on a host that charges as 
much as an imported beer is probably not a good idea."

(quote can be found in the comments here: 
http://net.tutsplus.com/tutorials/other/rapid-development-with-coldfusion-and-cfml/)


Thanks,

Eric Cobb
ECAR Technologies, LLC
http://www.ecartech.com
http://www.cfgears.com


On 1/28/2011 12:49 PM, Adam Bourg wrote:
> Can anyone recommend a decent yet cheap web host for ColdFusion?
>
> Right now I'm hosting my site at DreamHost (Simple wordpress as CMS site).
>
> I'm looking for
> SQL
> PHP 5
> and Coldfusion 8 support
> all under $6.
>
> Am I dreaming?
>
> 

~|
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RE: Subtracting two dates

[DURETTE, STEVEN J (ATTASIAIT)]

Depends...  If you are looking at less than 31 days difference then you
can do it in the db. (only tried this in SQL Server).

Select cprAdultExp, getDate() as [now], day(getDate() - cprAdultExp) - 1
as dayDiff
>From table

You can get days, hours, minutes, seconds from this. Day is the only one
you have to -1 from.

In sql server they will all come back 1900-01-DD HH:MI:SS.xxx

Steve

-Original Message-
From: Adam Bourg [mailto:adam.bo...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 1:45 PM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Subtracting two dates


I'm trying to figure out how to subtract two dates and return the number
of days between then.

My dates are cprAdultExp, which is a database column, I typically write
it as: #dateformat(cprAdultExp,"mm/dd/")#

The other is Now()
Which I also format as: #dateformat(Now(),"mm/dd/")#

What's the easy way to do this? 





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Coldfusion Hosting

[Adam Bourg]

Can anyone recommend a decent yet cheap web host for ColdFusion? 

Right now I'm hosting my site at DreamHost (Simple wordpress as CMS site). 

I'm looking for
SQL
PHP 5
and Coldfusion 8 support
all under $6. 

Am I dreaming? 

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Re: Subtracting two dates

[Brian Cain]

Use the DateDiff function.

http://livedocs.adobe.com/coldfusion/8/htmldocs/help.html?content=functions_c-d_28.html
 

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Re: Subtracting two dates

[Charlie Griefer]

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:45 AM, Adam Bourg  wrote:
>
> I'm trying to figure out how to subtract two dates and return the number of 
> days between then.
>
> My dates are cprAdultExp, which is a database column, I typically write it 
> as: #dateformat(cprAdultExp,"mm/dd/")#
>
> The other is Now()
> Which I also format as: #dateformat(Now(),"mm/dd/")#
>
> What's the easy way to do this?

http://www.cfquickdocs.com/cf9/#datediff

-- 
Charlie Griefer
http://charlie.griefer.com/

I have failed as much as I have succeeded. But I love my life. I love
my wife. And I wish you my kind of success.

~|
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Subtracting two dates

[Adam Bourg]

I'm trying to figure out how to subtract two dates and return the number of 
days between then.

My dates are cprAdultExp, which is a database column, I typically write it as: 
#dateformat(cprAdultExp,"mm/dd/")#

The other is Now()
Which I also format as: #dateformat(Now(),"mm/dd/")#

What's the easy way to do this? 



~|
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Re: Grid like form with multiple inserts

[Monique Boea]

New records. See code below.

I need to parse through the submitted fields to insert them.

I think I am making it much harder then what it is but I'm SO stuck.

Here's the code that I am working with to process the form fields:




#Evaluate("form[fname]" &
i)#






Here's the form






#users.firstname# #users.lastname#



Personal
Preceptor
Senior Resource Nurse
Special Project-Phone
System Down Time
Training-In Person
Training: Phone
Client Training Phone
Peer To Peer Consultation
Gone Home







On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 1:43 PM, Carl Von Stetten
wrote:

>
> Some more information might be helpful.  Can we see the code of the form
> itself?  Also, are you just inserting new records into your database, or
> editing existing records?
>
> On 1/28/2011 10:34 AM, Monique Boea wrote:
> > Any sample code for a grid-like form?
> >
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 8:16 PM, Monique Boea
>  wrote:
> >
> >>   Hello All
> >>
> >> I have a form which is design like an excel spreadsheet with about 60
> input
> >> rows.
> >>
> >> The user may enter values for some and not the others.
> >>
> >> I am stuck on entering the values into the database.
> >>
> >> I use the following code to loop through the forms vars but don't know
> >> where to go after this.
> >>
> >> 
> >> 
> >>   #key# = #form[key]#
> >> 
> >> 
> >>
> >>
> >> Any suggestions?
> >>
> >> P.S. Thank you guys for all of your help. It is appreciated.
> >>
> >
> >
>
> 

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Re: Grid like form with multiple inserts

[Carl Von Stetten]

Some more information might be helpful.  Can we see the code of the form 
itself?  Also, are you just inserting new records into your database, or 
editing existing records?

On 1/28/2011 10:34 AM, Monique Boea wrote:
> Any sample code for a grid-like form?
>
>
>
> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 8:16 PM, Monique Boea  wrote:
>
>>   Hello All
>>
>> I have a form which is design like an excel spreadsheet with about 60 input
>> rows.
>>
>> The user may enter values for some and not the others.
>>
>> I am stuck on entering the values into the database.
>>
>> I use the following code to loop through the forms vars but don't know
>> where to go after this.
>>
>> 
>> 
>>   #key# = #form[key]#
>> 
>> 
>>
>>
>> Any suggestions?
>>
>> P.S. Thank you guys for all of your help. It is appreciated.
>>
>
> 

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Re: Grid like form with multiple inserts

[Monique Boea]

Any sample code for a grid-like form?



On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 8:16 PM, Monique Boea  wrote:

>  Hello All
>
> I have a form which is design like an excel spreadsheet with about 60 input
> rows.
>
> The user may enter values for some and not the others.
>
> I am stuck on entering the values into the database.
>
> I use the following code to loop through the forms vars but don't know
> where to go after this.
>
> 
> 
>  #key# = #form[key]#
> 
> 
>
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> P.S. Thank you guys for all of your help. It is appreciated.
>


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RE: Insert without checking existance

[DURETTE, STEVEN J (ATTASIAIT)]

So just out of curiosity, is this on a SQL 2008 box?  If so then you can
use merge and give different options for insert or update (even delete
if you want)

Steve


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Re: Insert without checking existance

[Mike Chabot]

Yes, there is a small gap between existence checking and the actual insert.

Unless you specifically commit the transaction early, all the statements
would be in the same transaction. That is true with all the possible
methods. Transactions are not the issue. Locking is, but it is only an issue
on very busy servers. I use the EXISTS function all the time without fear,
even though it is not inherently protected from concurrency issues. If two
events happen at the same microsecond, you might see an error.

If you are worried about the thread-safety issue, there are two approaches.
1. set the desired locking level to prevent concurrency problems. 2. handle
the rare error event. If you set wider locks, you will punish every insert,
plus the reads from that table, for what is a rare event. There are a couple
methods of error handling, try/catch and inspecting @@error. If you want to
specifically do something in case there is a error, I believe the T-SQL
would be IF (@@ERROR = 2627). In your case you would probably be ignoring
the error. I'm sure others would prefer the locking approach to the error
handling approach. With SQL there is often a tradeoff between speed and
safety.

BEGIN TRY
  INSERT INTO table
  VALUES (@val)
END TRY
BEGIN CATCH
  IF (@@ERROR = 2627) print 'duplicate insert attempted.'
  ELSE print 'an unexpected error occurred'
END CATCH

I should mention that another assumption I am making is that you are not
deleting items from that table very often. If there are a lot of deletes and
updates, locking becomes more important.

-Mike Chabot

http://www.linkedin.com/in/chabot

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 10:58 AM, Michael Dinowitz <
mdino...@houseoffusion.com> wrote:

>
> Yes.
>
> if exists(statement)
>   something
> else
>   something else
>
> The question I have to look up is if the whole operation is one 'unit' or
> does it have to have transaction control. Is there a 'gap' between the
> exists() check and the actual sql operation?
>
>
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 9:15 AM, Che Vilnonis  wrote:
>
> >
> > Could this be combined with an "ELSE" statement in SQL? That is, insert
> if
> > new, update if existing? Thanks, Che
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > This is what I'm using at the moment but I'm going to read what you have
> as
> > well. I want fast and safe.
> >
> > 
> >if not exists(
> >Select keywordid
> >from keywords
> >where keyword =  > cfsqltype="cf_sql_varchar">)
> >Insert into keywords(keyword)
> >values( > cfsqltype="cf_sql_varchar">)
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> 

~|
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Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?

[Russ Michaels]

That information is still very limited and ambiguous though Brian. Adobe are
only going to be aware of direct customers migrating to OSS or those who
announce it on twitter or forums, they wont be aware of customers using
shared hosting who don't own a cf license and are not in contact with adobe
and do not use lists or groups.
This is a very large proportion of the user base, probably the majority of
it in fact.
We have customers all the time moving their hosting because they rewrite the
site in PHP, and  this is usually just because they got a new developer who
doesn't know/hates cf or because they wanted to save themselves some money
by using Joomla, Wordpress, Drupal or some other super popular free OSS app
that does everything they need out of the box.
The move to Railo so far for our customers has only been so that they have
run their own VPS without the CF license cost.

Russ



On Tue, Jan 25, 2011 at 4:00 PM, Brian Kotek  wrote:

>
> The reality is that Railo and Open BlueDragon are not growing the market
> for
> CFML. No one is *switching to* CFML from PHP, .NET, Ruby, or Java because
> of
> the OSS engines. To the extent that this might happen, it is an
> infinitesimally small number of projects. If any of the OSS engines have
> data to contradict that assertion, I'd love to see it.
>
> The OSS engines, particularly Railo, were initially touted as a gateway for
> people working on other platforms, which is why their partnership with
> JBoss
> created such hope and expectation. This has not happened. What *has*
> happened is that a small but noticeable number of existing ColdFusion users
> have moved to the OSS engines. As an Adobe Community Professional, I'm
> privy
> to more "internal" information and direct communication with the Adobe
> employees. The primary drain on the Adobe ColdFusion user base is people
> moving to one of the OSS CFML engines. Not people leaving for PHP or .NET.
> People do leave for other platforms, and new people do come in, but that
> just means that the total size of the CFML community as a whole is fairly
> static in size. And now that total pie is being divided between CF, Railo,
> and OBD.
>
> I personally like most of the individual people involved in the OSS
> projects. I've known many of them for years. So this is not personal at
> all.
> But if the biggest drain on the ColdFusion user base is coming from the OSS
> engines, then Adobe is absolutely right to treat them as their top
> competitors. To NOT do this would be foolish. If the OSS engines were
> actually pulling in droves of new users from other platforms, this whole
> dynamic would probably be much different. But that is simply not the case.
>
> Brian
>
>
> On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 9:59 AM, Larry Lyons 
> wrote:
>
> >
> > The point being FOSS complements and expands the market for CFML, and by
> > extension Adobe. If anything Adobe should be promoting the FOSS engines
> as a
> > low cost entry point. That is something it has been criticized about for
> > years. Once the customer realizes how much more is available with the
> Adobe
> > engine they will make that sale. Its a model that's been followed in
> quite a
> > few successful operations, such as Zend with PHP and RedHat with Linux
> and
> > JBoss. In both these cases having an open source entry  point has not
> hurt
> > their bottom line.
> >
> >
> >
>
>
> 

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RE: why is cf_builder so expensive?

[Russ Michaels]

I don't really think your analogy is relevant, No company would change their
logo just because a couple of people don't like it but hat is hardly even
similar. I know enough about marketing to know that you need a good business
case to warrant spending lots of cash and man hours on something, it needs
to be a viable idea in some way, either to drive sales, profit, brand
awareness. Usually "Because 3 people thinks it is a good idea", would not be
considered a good business decision.




-Original Message-
From: Michael Grant [mailto:mgr...@modus.bz] 
Sent: 28 January 2011 14:11
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: why is cf_builder so expensive?


I've already explained why to bother. The same argument could be made about
"Why bother changing a logo or a corporate brand?" I doubt any company gets
thousands of complaints about their current brand or logo. The reason is
optics. If you aren't into marketing you likely won't "get" it.


On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 9:07 AM, Russ Michaels  wrote:

>
> Yes but why bother? I'm sure if they were getting thousands of 
> complaints then they would do so just for some peace and quiet, but my 
> bet is that not many people really care.
> My old cfdeveloper.co.uk  site ran on ASP because I found a community 
> portal app that did the job, I received the odd comment from people 
> because it was ASP and not CFML, but out of the thousands of members 
> the site had, this was insignificant and not enough to bother me or 
> warrant me changing it.
>
> Russ
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Michael Grant [mailto:mgr...@modus.bz]
> Sent: 28 January 2011 14:00
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: Re: why is cf_builder so expensive?
>
>
> Fair enough. Though it's still kind of missing my point. My point is 
> that is Adobe doesn't use CF it should at least mask the use of other 
> technologies.
> That's easy to do and fairly cheap. You can _look_ like you aren't 
> using php without much trouble.
>
> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Russ Michaels 
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Wow, this is way off topic now eh!
> >
> >
> > There is a well known saying "use the best tool for the job". And as 
> > Dave will agree, CF is not always the best tool for the job, and I 
> > guess Adobe themselves even know that, even Microsoft don't claim 
> > that Winodws/IIS is the best solution for every job.
> >
> > For example, If I want to write a custom app from scratch, or it 
> > needs to be something I can easily update myself then I would use CF 
> > every time of course as I know CF and I love CF.
> > However if I simply want an App that does a specific/common job and 
> > I don't plan to get my own hands dirty in the code, I will first 
> > look to the open source world, and usually I will find a PHP solution.
> > For example, if you wanted to build a social networking community 
> > then there is really nothing like this for CF, you would have to 
> > write it yourself, which is a lot of work/time/cost. Or you could go 
> > and download ELGG, Dolphin or one of the many well-known PHP 
> > solutions and be up and running in no time.
> > If you have the time and thousands of $ available to roll your own 
> > exactly how you want, then awesome, otherwise it is really a no 
> > brainer. And this particular scenario covers so many apps and 
> > situations, if you have a client who doesn't have the budget for you 
> > to write a CF solution and there is no open source CF solution, what 
> > do you do? Look outside the box for a solution that will fit the 
> > job/budget.
> >
> > It would be gr8 if CF had as many open source apps as PHP, but 
> > CFdevelopers tend to want to be paid for their work, which I guess 
> > is only fair if they had to pay for CF, plus of course the 
> > proportion of cfdeveloper compared to php developers is tiny, so 
> > clearly there is not as many people out there with the time or 
> > inclination to write OSS apps.
> > Perhaps Railo/OBD will change this, but not by very much I reckon.
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwa...@figleaf.com]
> > Sent: 28 January 2011 06:40
> > To: cf-talk
> > Subject: Re: why is cf_builder so expensive?
> >
> >
> > > This isn't actually true at all, Dave. To give one high profile 
> > > example, take Hotmail. Microsoft got a huge amount of shit for the 
> > > fact that Hotmail ran on Linux (or BSD? I think BSD) with Apache.
> > > Sure, they bought Hotmail and that was the primary reason. But 
> > > people kept saying "oh, Windows and IIS can't handle the load so 
> > > they have to stick with BSD".  There were plenty of tech articles 
> > > about whether Microsoft could actually run Hotmail on Windows, how 
> > > expensive it would be, etc.  Finally, MS eventually moved it over 
> > > but they had to put significant time and energy into the project.
> > > They even announced that they had moved it to Windows only to have 
> > > to retract that statement a couple days later, admitting that some 
> > > of the bits still ran

RE: Insert without checking existance

[DURETTE, STEVEN J (ATTASIAIT)]

If you are just doing an insert, why don't you do it like this

Insert into table(keyword)
Select @keyword -- Variable containing the keyword
Where not exists(select keyword from table where keyword=@keyword);

Keeps it all in one block/transaction.

-Original Message-
From: Michael Dinowitz [mailto:mdino...@houseoffusion.com] 
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 11:13 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Insert without checking existance


I was doing the @@rowcount version to check then insert but I was
unhappy
with the performance. I was looking for some something a little better.
Still not happy.

I've got a keywords table with 2 columns - an ID (int) and a keyword
(varchar). With an index on keyword, it should be very quick to do the
check/insert operation.

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Che Vilnonis  wrote:

>
> Michael, I found this using Google...
>
> UPDATE Table1
>SET (...)
>WHERE Column1='SomeValue'
>
> IF @@ROWCOUNT=0
>
> INSERT INTO Table1
>VALUES (...)
>
> Might be better? Che
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Michael Dinowitz [mailto:mdino...@houseoffusion.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 10:58 AM
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: Re: Insert without checking existance
>
>
> Yes.
>
> if exists(statement)
>   something
> else
>   something else
>
> The question I have to look up is if the whole operation is one 'unit'
or
> does it have to have transaction control. Is there a 'gap' between the
> exists() check and the actual sql operation?
>
>
>
> 



~|
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Re: Insert without checking existance

[Donnie Carvajal]

>Is exists() more efficient than this?

Yes. I use it all of the time. Exists() will look for until it finds a record 
and as soon as it finds it, it stops because the criteria is met.  A normal 
Select statement will look at all records and finish once all records have been 
parsed.  It's really more efficient when the possibility of multiple records 
returned is there.

Hope this helps. 

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Re: why is cf_builder so expensive?

[Mike Chabot]

I fully agree. The pace of change in Microsoft land is very stressful to
developers. They kill off and deprecate multiple technologies and product
features each year. Microsoft scrapping DTS sent many database developers
back into training classes. Adobe also has a history of killing off
products. GoLive, Freehand and Spectra come to mind. Granted, Adobe is
nowhere near as bad as Microsoft in this regard.

-Mike Chabot

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 9:55 AM, Dave Watts  wrote:

>
> > Microsoft's uncertain commitment to Silverlight is the biggest area of
> > concern for many Microsoft developers at present.
>
> Well, to put this in a larger context, Microsoft has a history of
> throwing things out into the marketplace, then dropping them if they
> don't go anywhere, or killing them without giving them a chance to
> grow, or superseding them with newer incompatible products.
>
> PlaysForSure
> Windows Mobile
> ASP 3
> The ASP predecessor (IDX? I forget what it was called)
> Visual FoxPro
>
> Those five are literally off the top of my head, and I happen to have
> personal experience with them. So I can see why MS developers might be
> a little leery.
>
> Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
> http://www.figleaf.com/
> http://training.figleaf.com/
>
> Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on
> GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
> instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite.
>
> 

~|
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Re: Insert without checking existance

[Michael Dinowitz]

I was doing the @@rowcount version to check then insert but I was unhappy
with the performance. I was looking for some something a little better.
Still not happy.

I've got a keywords table with 2 columns - an ID (int) and a keyword
(varchar). With an index on keyword, it should be very quick to do the
check/insert operation.

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 11:02 AM, Che Vilnonis  wrote:

>
> Michael, I found this using Google...
>
> UPDATE Table1
>SET (...)
>WHERE Column1='SomeValue'
>
> IF @@ROWCOUNT=0
>
> INSERT INTO Table1
>VALUES (...)
>
> Might be better? Che
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Michael Dinowitz [mailto:mdino...@houseoffusion.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 10:58 AM
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: Re: Insert without checking existance
>
>
> Yes.
>
> if exists(statement)
>   something
> else
>   something else
>
> The question I have to look up is if the whole operation is one 'unit' or
> does it have to have transaction control. Is there a 'gap' between the
> exists() check and the actual sql operation?
>
>
>
> 

~|
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RE: Insert without checking existance

[Che Vilnonis]

Michael, I found this using Google...

UPDATE Table1
SET (...)
WHERE Column1='SomeValue'

IF @@ROWCOUNT=0

INSERT INTO Table1
VALUES (...)

Might be better? Che

-Original Message-
From: Michael Dinowitz [mailto:mdino...@houseoffusion.com] 
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 10:58 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: Insert without checking existance


Yes.

if exists(statement)
   something
else
   something else

The question I have to look up is if the whole operation is one 'unit' or
does it have to have transaction control. Is there a 'gap' between the
exists() check and the actual sql operation?



~|
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Re: Insert without checking existance

[Michael Dinowitz]

Yes.

if exists(statement)
   something
else
   something else

The question I have to look up is if the whole operation is one 'unit' or
does it have to have transaction control. Is there a 'gap' between the
exists() check and the actual sql operation?




On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 9:15 AM, Che Vilnonis  wrote:

>
> Could this be combined with an "ELSE" statement in SQL? That is, insert if
> new, update if existing? Thanks, Che
>
> -Original Message-
> This is what I'm using at the moment but I'm going to read what you have as
> well. I want fast and safe.
>
> 
>if not exists(
>Select keywordid
>from keywords
>where keyword =  cfsqltype="cf_sql_varchar">)
>Insert into keywords(keyword)
>values( cfsqltype="cf_sql_varchar">)
>
>
>
>
>
> 

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Re: why is cf_builder so expensive?

[Adrocknaphobia]

All,

Are there bugs in ColdFusion Builder? Yes. Will there be bugs in the next
release? Yes. I hope that as professional software developers we can
understand that software ships with defects. Some bugs are known, some
unknown. Some are critical to many, some are critical to just a few.

-Adam







On Wed, Jan 26, 2011 at 7:39 PM, Andrew Scott wrote:

>
> Ray,
>
> You really don't want me to get started on Adobe and the pricing off CFB.
>
> Screw it
>
> It is overpriced, I use it because I was given a copy for home and it was
> bought for me at work. Would I buy the next version, no I am going to be
> very reserved on that. The reason being is that while other products in the
> Adobe range get constant updates, and other software vendors release
> constant updates.
>
> ColdFusion and ColdFusion Builder get let me see 1 update, in other words
> unless you pay for the support to get your problem fixed it is not fixed
> nor
> is it released in a subsequent update. Adam is clear in saying in the
> latest
> CFhour that it is in his team's best interests to move straight onto the
> next release, and that means that if you are waiting for bugs you are
> forced
> to fork out money for another product release.
>
> This is wrong, and something adobe should take under consideration. If the
> current release is actually stopping people from using the product, as
> people have described, would it not make more sense to be proactive and
> release more updates and get the product to a more stable product. Hell
> these bugs have to be fixed sooner or later, and Adobe's attitude is later,
> and if that means alienating customers they don't seem to care.
>
> I strongly advise Adam to listen to his customers, and begin to release
> more
> updates/fixes during the 2 years between ColdFusion releases, and to begin
> releasing more updates for ColdFusion Builder. Otherwise I don't care how
> good the next version of Builder is I personally will not be buying it, I
> don't like greed in a company, and this model comes across as greed.
>
>
>
> Regards,
> Andrew Scott
> http://www.andyscott.id.au/
>


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Re: why is cf_builder so expensive?

[Dave Watts]

> I've already explained why to bother. The same argument could be made about
> "Why bother changing a logo or a corporate brand?" I doubt any company gets
> thousands of complaints about their current brand or logo. The reason is
> optics. If you aren't into marketing you likely won't "get" it.

I'm not into marketing. But I assume that for a given marketing
endeavor, one can decide whether the cost is worth the benefit. You
and I have no way to accurately identify the cost or the benefit.
You're speculating that the cost is low and the benefit is high. I'm
speculating that the cost is higher than you think, and the benefit is
lower than you think. Presumably, Adobe has better insight into both
than we do.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on
GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite.

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Re: why is cf_builder so expensive?

[Dave Watts]

> Microsoft's uncertain commitment to Silverlight is the biggest area of
> concern for many Microsoft developers at present.

Well, to put this in a larger context, Microsoft has a history of
throwing things out into the marketplace, then dropping them if they
don't go anywhere, or killing them without giving them a chance to
grow, or superseding them with newer incompatible products.

PlaysForSure
Windows Mobile
ASP 3
The ASP predecessor (IDX? I forget what it was called)
Visual FoxPro

Those five are literally off the top of my head, and I happen to have
personal experience with them. So I can see why MS developers might be
a little leery.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on
GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized
instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite.

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Re: why is cf_builder so expensive?

[Scott Stroz]

But they both sell software...they must be identical. 

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 9:46 AM, Mark A. Kruger  wrote:
>
> Mike,
>
> But Microsoft owns the whole stack from the OS down to the programming
> languages themselves Adobe is a different sort of company.
>
> -Mark
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Mike Chabot [mailto:mcha...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 12:15 AM
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: Re: why is cf_builder so expensive?
>
>
> I disagree with the suggestion that the technologies major companies decide
> to use is unimportant to developers. I am active in the Microsoft developer
> and database communities and I can say with certainty that Microsoft makes a
> big deal about how they use their own technologies to power their company.
> The phrase "we eat our own dog food" is used all the time in Microsoft
> presentations. Scott Guthrie seems to mention this in every talk he gives. I
> have heard "we use the technology ourselves" used as a selling point for SQL
> Server 2008, Exchange 2010, IIS 7, Visual Studio 2010, WPF, Silverlight, SQL
> Azure, and other well known technologies. In fact, for every Microsoft
> technology I can think of that is targeted at IT people, one of the main
> selling points is "we use this product ourselves so we are motivated to make
> it better by our own internal IT staff." When Microsoft does not use one of
> their own promoted in-house technologies for something, such as not using
> WPF for MS Office 2010, the criticism is loud and widespread. The Microsoft
> developer community erupted with criticism a couple months ago when Bob
> Muglia, who was one of the top guys at MS until recently, publicly expressed
> Microsoft's commitment for HTML 5, a non-Microsoft technology and a direct
> competitor to Microsoft's in-house technologies.
>
> If you don't typically see these types of issues discussed with tech
> companies other than Adobe, it is because publicly using competing products
> normally should not happen. When Steve Jobs appears on stage, he has an iPod
> in his pocket, a MacBook on the podium, and a Keynote presentation on the
> big screen. If he showed up with a Zune, a computer running Windows 7, and a
> PowerPoint presentation, it would absolutely be a popular topic of
> conversation.
>
>
>
> The fact that Microsoft uses their own technologies is a big deal to me.
> Upgrading a mission critical database is always risky. The fact that
> Microsoft used SQL Server 2008 to power their own Web sites and
> applications, even while the product was still under development, gave me
> added confidence that SQL Server 2008 was stable enough to use right after
> it was released for sale. One of the reasons a Microsoft manager said that
> Silverlight/WPF advanced as fast as it did was because Visual Studio 2010
> was built on the Windows Presentation Foundation framework, and
> feedback/pressure from their own VS2010 development team was used to rapidly
> advance Silverlight to the v4 version.
>
>
>
> Based on my knowledge of the inner workings of certain large organizations,
> there is typically huge pressure on managers to not be seen using competing
> products. The CEO of Coca-Cola will never be seen enjoying a Pepsi. Steve
> Balmer will never be seen talking on an iPhone. If someone handed him one he
> would smash it on the ground as quickly and as forcefully as he could. Adobe
> appears to lack the same internal pressure and competitive spirit that
> exists in other successful large corporations. Adobe has an excuse in that
> they acquired most of their major development products, but that excuse
> cannot be used forever.
>
>
> -Mike Chabot
>
>
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/chabot
>  
> On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 10:44 PM, Dave Watts  wrote:
>
>> if you go on mailing lists for those other products,
>> you don't find developers talking about what's used on what web sites,
>> and how that reflects on anything meaningful.
>
>
>
>
> 

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RE: why is cf_builder so expensive?

[Mark A. Kruger]

Mike,

But Microsoft owns the whole stack from the OS down to the programming
languages themselves Adobe is a different sort of company.

-Mark


-Original Message-
From: Mike Chabot [mailto:mcha...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 12:15 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: why is cf_builder so expensive?


I disagree with the suggestion that the technologies major companies decide
to use is unimportant to developers. I am active in the Microsoft developer
and database communities and I can say with certainty that Microsoft makes a
big deal about how they use their own technologies to power their company.
The phrase "we eat our own dog food" is used all the time in Microsoft
presentations. Scott Guthrie seems to mention this in every talk he gives. I
have heard "we use the technology ourselves" used as a selling point for SQL
Server 2008, Exchange 2010, IIS 7, Visual Studio 2010, WPF, Silverlight, SQL
Azure, and other well known technologies. In fact, for every Microsoft
technology I can think of that is targeted at IT people, one of the main
selling points is "we use this product ourselves so we are motivated to make
it better by our own internal IT staff." When Microsoft does not use one of
their own promoted in-house technologies for something, such as not using
WPF for MS Office 2010, the criticism is loud and widespread. The Microsoft
developer community erupted with criticism a couple months ago when Bob
Muglia, who was one of the top guys at MS until recently, publicly expressed
Microsoft's commitment for HTML 5, a non-Microsoft technology and a direct
competitor to Microsoft's in-house technologies.

If you don't typically see these types of issues discussed with tech
companies other than Adobe, it is because publicly using competing products
normally should not happen. When Steve Jobs appears on stage, he has an iPod
in his pocket, a MacBook on the podium, and a Keynote presentation on the
big screen. If he showed up with a Zune, a computer running Windows 7, and a
PowerPoint presentation, it would absolutely be a popular topic of
conversation.



The fact that Microsoft uses their own technologies is a big deal to me.
Upgrading a mission critical database is always risky. The fact that
Microsoft used SQL Server 2008 to power their own Web sites and
applications, even while the product was still under development, gave me
added confidence that SQL Server 2008 was stable enough to use right after
it was released for sale. One of the reasons a Microsoft manager said that
Silverlight/WPF advanced as fast as it did was because Visual Studio 2010
was built on the Windows Presentation Foundation framework, and
feedback/pressure from their own VS2010 development team was used to rapidly
advance Silverlight to the v4 version.



Based on my knowledge of the inner workings of certain large organizations,
there is typically huge pressure on managers to not be seen using competing
products. The CEO of Coca-Cola will never be seen enjoying a Pepsi. Steve
Balmer will never be seen talking on an iPhone. If someone handed him one he
would smash it on the ground as quickly and as forcefully as he could. Adobe
appears to lack the same internal pressure and competitive spirit that
exists in other successful large corporations. Adobe has an excuse in that
they acquired most of their major development products, but that excuse
cannot be used forever.


-Mike Chabot


http://www.linkedin.com/in/chabot
 
On Thu, Jan 27, 2011 at 10:44 PM, Dave Watts  wrote:

> if you go on mailing lists for those other products,
> you don't find developers talking about what's used on what web sites,
> and how that reflects on anything meaningful.




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Re: Should I build my app as an API?

[Dorioo]

If you plan to expose the API anyway, then it's a solid idea. It's a great
candidate for RESTful web services for the API.

You'd need to authenticate requests to the API so I'd look at stuff like
Google Checkout integration or Amazon S3 authentication for ideas you can
emulate to secure the API calls.

- Gabriel

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Eric Cobb  wrote:

>
> I'm getting ready to start working on what I hope is to become a pretty
> large side project.  Right now I'm in the planning phases, and one of
> the (eventual) plans is to have a full API that others can use to
> interact with the site.  When thinking about this, I came up with an
> idea that I wanted to run by you guys to get some opinions.
>
> Instead of taking the usual approach of building the site like I want
> then adding an API to it, what if I were to just build out the API
> first, then build my site off of that API?  Has anyone ever done this,
> or have any ideas on this?
>
> I'm really hoping to get a good discussion going on this, so please let
> me know what you think!
>
> --
>
> Thanks,
>
> Eric Cobb
> ECAR Technologies, LLC
> http://www.ecartech.com
> http://www.cfgears.com
>
>
>
> 

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Re: nested SQL update statement to replace CF script

[Jason Durham]

If _all_ children _aways_ get published (like your pseudocode indicates),
why not just flag the parent category?

If you want to do it all in SQL, try...
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms186243.aspx

Jason Durham


On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 1:16 AM, wabba  wrote:

>
> Hi all, read a lot, post rarely. Anyway, try to keep this simple as
> possible
> - I have a database of items stored within nested categories using a pivot
> table to establish parent/childs for the categories (the can virtually nest
> indefinitely, one child cat can be under multiple parents, etc). There are
> roughly 30,000 items within 3,000 categories. There are a handful of top
> level categories. One of the top level categories gets published to an
> external site regularly, while the others don't. I use a bit flag on the
> items to determine which items get published and which don't, so that only
> the items we want published get transferred.
>
> Currently I use a nested CF custom tag to set the publish flags - I feed it
> a top level categoryID, it sets Publish=1 on the items in that category,
> then calls itself in a loop with all of the CategoryID where the
> ParentCatID=CategoryID. Something like this:
>
> (cf_pushlishtree custom tag):
> 
> Update item SET Publish=1 WHERE CategoryID=CurrentCat
> 
> 
> Select CategoryID FROM CatPivot WHERE ParentCatID=CurrentCat
> 
>
> 
>
> 
>
>
> ...It works fine but is slow and will timeout before it finishes, and I
> can't restart it where it leaves off. I would think this could be done
> right
> in MS SQL by having a nested function or stored procedure that can do the
> update and then loop itself from the select, but I can't figure out how - I
> don't think an UPDATE is allowed in a function, and a stored procedure
> can't
> be called from a select statement. I considered adding a "TopCategoryID" to
> the item or category table as it would make publishing very simple, but we
> can't as categories can exist anywhere in the category structure, often
> under multiple parents simultaneously.
>
>
>
> 

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Should I build my app as an API?

[Eric Cobb]

I'm getting ready to start working on what I hope is to become a pretty 
large side project.  Right now I'm in the planning phases, and one of 
the (eventual) plans is to have a full API that others can use to 
interact with the site.  When thinking about this, I came up with an 
idea that I wanted to run by you guys to get some opinions.

Instead of taking the usual approach of building the site like I want 
then adding an API to it, what if I were to just build out the API 
first, then build my site off of that API?  Has anyone ever done this, 
or have any ideas on this?

I'm really hoping to get a good discussion going on this, so please let 
me know what you think!

-- 

Thanks,

Eric Cobb
ECAR Technologies, LLC
http://www.ecartech.com
http://www.cfgears.com



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Re: Need 2nd pair of eyes: why doesn't this code work?

[Jerry Milo Johnson]

Just point to the time, and claim lack of caffeine. Plus, it is Friday.

You are officially off the hook.

Jerry Milo Johnson

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 9:07 AM, Dave Burns  wrote:

>
> Sigh. FML. Thank you. Now, how to delete this thread or at least remove my
> name from it?
>
>
> 

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Re: Need 2nd pair of eyes: why doesn't this code work?

[Dave Burns]

Sigh. FML. Thank you. Now, how to delete this thread or at least remove my name 
from it?


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RE: Insert without checking existance

[Che Vilnonis]

Could this be combined with an "ELSE" statement in SQL? That is, insert if
new, update if existing? Thanks, Che

-Original Message-
This is what I'm using at the moment but I'm going to read what you have as
well. I want fast and safe.


if not exists(
Select keywordid
from keywords
where keyword = )
Insert into keywords(keyword)
values()





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Re: Need 2nd pair of eyes: why doesn't this code work?

[Jerry Milo Johnson]

isDefined("attributes.year")

in quotes?

Jerry Milo Johnson

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 9:01 AM, Dave Burns  wrote:

>
> I'm having one of those moments where something seemingly trivial isn't
> working. I'm sure I'm missing something obvious. I have a custom tag that
> takes and attribute named "year" and outputs the number of years since then.
> So, my test.cfm looks like this:
>
> 
>
> I'd expect that to output "41". I tried to be smart though and put code in
> the custom tag to detect whether year was passed in and if not, output an
> error. It didn't work and it boils down to my use of IsDefined on the
> attribute. Here's the current code for the tag:
>
> 
> year is definedyear is NOT
> Defined
> #year(now()) - ATTRIBUTES.year#
>
> When you run it, the cfdump line shows that the attributes scope contains a
> value named "YEAR". The 2nd line though says that year is NOT defined. But
> the 3rd line works anyway. So, what am I doing wrong in the 2nd line re
> testing that the attribute exists?
>
>
> 

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Re: why is cf_builder so expensive?

[Michael Grant]

I've already explained why to bother. The same argument could be made about
"Why bother changing a logo or a corporate brand?" I doubt any company gets
thousands of complaints about their current brand or logo. The reason is
optics. If you aren't into marketing you likely won't "get" it.


On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 9:07 AM, Russ Michaels  wrote:

>
> Yes but why bother? I'm sure if they were getting thousands of complaints
> then they would do so just for some peace and quiet, but my bet is that not
> many people really care.
> My old cfdeveloper.co.uk  site ran on ASP because I found a community
> portal
> app that did the job, I received the odd comment from people because it was
> ASP and not CFML, but out of the thousands of members the site had, this
> was
> insignificant and not enough to bother me or warrant me changing it.
>
> Russ
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Michael Grant [mailto:mgr...@modus.bz]
> Sent: 28 January 2011 14:00
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: Re: why is cf_builder so expensive?
>
>
> Fair enough. Though it's still kind of missing my point. My point is that
> is
> Adobe doesn't use CF it should at least mask the use of other technologies.
> That's easy to do and fairly cheap. You can _look_ like you aren't using
> php
> without much trouble.
>
> On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Russ Michaels 
> wrote:
>
> >
> > Wow, this is way off topic now eh!
> >
> >
> > There is a well known saying "use the best tool for the job". And as
> > Dave will agree, CF is not always the best tool for the job, and I
> > guess Adobe themselves even know that, even Microsoft don't claim that
> > Winodws/IIS is the best solution for every job.
> >
> > For example, If I want to write a custom app from scratch, or it needs
> > to be something I can easily update myself then I would use CF every
> > time of course as I know CF and I love CF.
> > However if I simply want an App that does a specific/common job and I
> > don't plan to get my own hands dirty in the code, I will first look to
> > the open source world, and usually I will find a PHP solution.
> > For example, if you wanted to build a social networking community then
> > there is really nothing like this for CF, you would have to write it
> > yourself, which is a lot of work/time/cost. Or you could go and
> > download ELGG, Dolphin or one of the many well-known PHP solutions and
> > be up and running in no time.
> > If you have the time and thousands of $ available to roll your own
> > exactly how you want, then awesome, otherwise it is really a no
> > brainer. And this particular scenario covers so many apps and
> > situations, if you have a client who doesn't have the budget for you
> > to write a CF solution and there is no open source CF solution, what
> > do you do? Look outside the box for a solution that will fit the
> > job/budget.
> >
> > It would be gr8 if CF had as many open source apps as PHP, but
> > CFdevelopers tend to want to be paid for their work, which I guess is
> > only fair if they had to pay for CF, plus of course the proportion of
> > cfdeveloper compared to php developers is tiny, so clearly there is
> > not as many people out there with the time or inclination to write OSS
> > apps.
> > Perhaps Railo/OBD will change this, but not by very much I reckon.
> >
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwa...@figleaf.com]
> > Sent: 28 January 2011 06:40
> > To: cf-talk
> > Subject: Re: why is cf_builder so expensive?
> >
> >
> > > This isn't actually true at all, Dave. To give one high profile
> > > example, take Hotmail. Microsoft got a huge amount of shit for the
> > > fact that Hotmail ran on Linux (or BSD? I think BSD) with Apache.
> > > Sure, they bought Hotmail and that was the primary reason. But
> > > people kept saying "oh, Windows and IIS can't handle the load so
> > > they have to stick with BSD".  There were plenty of tech articles
> > > about whether Microsoft could actually run Hotmail on Windows, how
> > > expensive it would be, etc.  Finally, MS eventually moved it over
> > > but they had to put significant time and energy into the project.
> > > They even announced that they had moved it to Windows only to have
> > > to retract that statement a couple days later, admitting that some
> > > of the bits still ran on BSD. I seem to recall that MS totally
> > > fucked up Hotmail in the move as well but that could have been some
> > > of their other major screw ups.
> >
> > Microsoft acquired Hotmail in 1997. They migrated it to Windows in
> > 2000/2001. Apparently, they didn't feel the need to do this very quickly.
> > And I think there's a significant difference. At the time, there was a
> > real, open question about whether Windows could fill this niche.
> > Current versions really couldn't. NT 4 and IIS 3 and 4 weren't capable
> > of doing this. But no one doubts that, say, the free RIA tools site
> > could be written in CF. Large parts of the main Adobe site are, in
> > fact, written 

Need 2nd pair of eyes: why doesn't this code work?

[Dave Burns]

I'm having one of those moments where something seemingly trivial isn't 
working. I'm sure I'm missing something obvious. I have a custom tag that takes 
and attribute named "year" and outputs the number of years since then. So, my 
test.cfm looks like this:



I'd expect that to output "41". I tried to be smart though and put code in the 
custom tag to detect whether year was passed in and if not, output an error. It 
didn't work and it boils down to my use of IsDefined on the attribute. Here's 
the current code for the tag:


year is definedyear is NOT 
Defined
#year(now()) - ATTRIBUTES.year#

When you run it, the cfdump line shows that the attributes scope contains a 
value named "YEAR". The 2nd line though says that year is NOT defined. But the 
3rd line works anyway. So, what am I doing wrong in the 2nd line re testing 
that the attribute exists?


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RE: why is cf_builder so expensive?

[Russ Michaels]

Yes but why bother? I'm sure if they were getting thousands of complaints
then they would do so just for some peace and quiet, but my bet is that not
many people really care.
My old cfdeveloper.co.uk  site ran on ASP because I found a community portal
app that did the job, I received the odd comment from people because it was
ASP and not CFML, but out of the thousands of members the site had, this was
insignificant and not enough to bother me or warrant me changing it.

Russ


-Original Message-
From: Michael Grant [mailto:mgr...@modus.bz] 
Sent: 28 January 2011 14:00
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: why is cf_builder so expensive?


Fair enough. Though it's still kind of missing my point. My point is that is
Adobe doesn't use CF it should at least mask the use of other technologies.
That's easy to do and fairly cheap. You can _look_ like you aren't using php
without much trouble.

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Russ Michaels  wrote:

>
> Wow, this is way off topic now eh!
>
>
> There is a well known saying "use the best tool for the job". And as 
> Dave will agree, CF is not always the best tool for the job, and I 
> guess Adobe themselves even know that, even Microsoft don't claim that 
> Winodws/IIS is the best solution for every job.
>
> For example, If I want to write a custom app from scratch, or it needs 
> to be something I can easily update myself then I would use CF every 
> time of course as I know CF and I love CF.
> However if I simply want an App that does a specific/common job and I 
> don't plan to get my own hands dirty in the code, I will first look to 
> the open source world, and usually I will find a PHP solution.
> For example, if you wanted to build a social networking community then 
> there is really nothing like this for CF, you would have to write it 
> yourself, which is a lot of work/time/cost. Or you could go and 
> download ELGG, Dolphin or one of the many well-known PHP solutions and 
> be up and running in no time.
> If you have the time and thousands of $ available to roll your own 
> exactly how you want, then awesome, otherwise it is really a no 
> brainer. And this particular scenario covers so many apps and 
> situations, if you have a client who doesn't have the budget for you 
> to write a CF solution and there is no open source CF solution, what 
> do you do? Look outside the box for a solution that will fit the 
> job/budget.
>
> It would be gr8 if CF had as many open source apps as PHP, but  
> CFdevelopers tend to want to be paid for their work, which I guess is 
> only fair if they had to pay for CF, plus of course the proportion of 
> cfdeveloper compared to php developers is tiny, so clearly there is 
> not as many people out there with the time or inclination to write OSS 
> apps.
> Perhaps Railo/OBD will change this, but not by very much I reckon.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwa...@figleaf.com]
> Sent: 28 January 2011 06:40
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: Re: why is cf_builder so expensive?
>
>
> > This isn't actually true at all, Dave. To give one high profile 
> > example, take Hotmail. Microsoft got a huge amount of shit for the 
> > fact that Hotmail ran on Linux (or BSD? I think BSD) with Apache.
> > Sure, they bought Hotmail and that was the primary reason. But 
> > people kept saying "oh, Windows and IIS can't handle the load so 
> > they have to stick with BSD".  There were plenty of tech articles 
> > about whether Microsoft could actually run Hotmail on Windows, how 
> > expensive it would be, etc.  Finally, MS eventually moved it over 
> > but they had to put significant time and energy into the project. 
> > They even announced that they had moved it to Windows only to have 
> > to retract that statement a couple days later, admitting that some 
> > of the bits still ran on BSD. I seem to recall that MS totally 
> > fucked up Hotmail in the move as well but that could have been some 
> > of their other major screw ups.
>
> Microsoft acquired Hotmail in 1997. They migrated it to Windows in 
> 2000/2001. Apparently, they didn't feel the need to do this very quickly.
> And I think there's a significant difference. At the time, there was a 
> real, open question about whether Windows could fill this niche. 
> Current versions really couldn't. NT 4 and IIS 3 and 4 weren't capable 
> of doing this. But no one doubts that, say, the free RIA tools site 
> could be written in CF. Large parts of the main Adobe site are, in 
> fact, written in CF.
>
> > Eating your own dogfood is still an important concept in the tech 
> > world and I think you sell it short.
>
> Adobe has a lot of different dog food, though. They have CF, 
> LiveCycle, Day Software, and Contribute/Dreamweaver. Which one of those
should they pick?
> As a tools vendor, they make products that explicitly are designed to 
> interact with Java, ASP.NET and PHP:
> Dreamweaver, Flash Builder, LiveCycle Workbench. The Flex team 
> probably has more customers using PHP

Re: why is cf_builder so expensive?

[Michael Grant]

Fair enough. Though it's still kind of missing my point. My point is that is
Adobe doesn't use CF it should at least mask the use of other technologies.
That's easy to do and fairly cheap. You can _look_ like you aren't using php
without much trouble.

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 8:32 AM, Russ Michaels  wrote:

>
> Wow, this is way off topic now eh!
>
>
> There is a well known saying "use the best tool for the job". And as Dave
> will agree, CF is not always the best tool for the job, and I guess Adobe
> themselves even know that, even Microsoft don’t claim that Winodws/IIS is
> the best solution for every job.
>
> For example, If I want to write a custom app from scratch, or it needs to
> be
> something I can easily update myself then I would use CF every time of
> course as I know CF and I love CF.
> However if I simply want an App that does a specific/common job and I don’t
> plan to get my own hands dirty in the code, I will first look to the open
> source world, and usually I will find a PHP solution.
> For example, if you wanted to build a social networking community then
> there
> is really nothing like this for CF, you would have to write it yourself,
> which is a lot of work/time/cost. Or you could go and download ELGG,
> Dolphin
> or one of the many well-known PHP solutions and be up and running in no
> time.
> If you have the time and thousands of $ available to roll your own exactly
> how you want, then awesome, otherwise it is really a no brainer. And this
> particular scenario covers so many apps and situations, if you have a
> client
> who doesn’t have the budget for you to write a CF solution and there is no
> open source CF solution, what do you do? Look outside the box for a
> solution
> that will fit the job/budget.
>
> It would be gr8 if CF had as many open source apps as PHP, but
>  CFdevelopers
> tend to want to be paid for their work, which I guess is only fair if they
> had to pay for CF, plus of course the proportion of cfdeveloper compared to
> php developers is tiny, so clearly there is not as many people out there
> with the time or inclination to write OSS apps.
> Perhaps Railo/OBD will change this, but not by very much I reckon.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwa...@figleaf.com]
> Sent: 28 January 2011 06:40
> To: cf-talk
> Subject: Re: why is cf_builder so expensive?
>
>
> > This isn't actually true at all, Dave. To give one high profile
> > example, take Hotmail. Microsoft got a huge amount of shit for the
> > fact that Hotmail ran on Linux (or BSD? I think BSD) with Apache.
> > Sure, they bought Hotmail and that was the primary reason. But people
> > kept saying "oh, Windows and IIS can't handle the load so they have to
> > stick with BSD".  There were plenty of tech articles about whether
> > Microsoft could actually run Hotmail on Windows, how expensive it
> > would be, etc.  Finally, MS eventually moved it over but they had to
> > put significant time and energy into the project. They even announced
> > that they had moved it to Windows only to have to retract that
> > statement a couple days later, admitting that some of the bits still
> > ran on BSD. I seem to recall that MS totally fucked up Hotmail in the
> > move as well but that could have been some of their other major screw
> > ups.
>
> Microsoft acquired Hotmail in 1997. They migrated it to Windows in
> 2000/2001. Apparently, they didn't feel the need to do this very quickly.
> And I think there's a significant difference. At the time, there was a
> real,
> open question about whether Windows could fill this niche. Current versions
> really couldn't. NT 4 and IIS 3 and 4 weren't capable of doing this. But no
> one doubts that, say, the free RIA tools site could be written in CF. Large
> parts of the main Adobe site are, in fact, written in CF.
>
> > Eating your own dogfood is still an important concept in the tech
> > world and I think you sell it short.
>
> Adobe has a lot of different dog food, though. They have CF, LiveCycle, Day
> Software, and Contribute/Dreamweaver. Which one of those should they pick?
> As a tools vendor, they make products that explicitly are designed to
> interact with Java, ASP.NET and PHP:
> Dreamweaver, Flash Builder, LiveCycle Workbench. The Flex team probably has
> more customers using PHP than CF. The Flash team certainly does.
>
> Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
> http://www.figleaf.com/
> http://training.figleaf.com/
>
> Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule,
> and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our
> training centers, online, or onsit
>
>
>
> 

~|
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Re: why is cf_builder so expensive?

[Mike Chabot]

You are pointing out another example where Microsoft developers have been
highly critical of Microsoft. One of the loudest calls is for Microsoft to
integrate Silverlight into MSIE so users don't need to download a separate
plugin. Silverlight does not have the widespread penetration that the Flash
plugin has, which is holding back that platform.

Microsoft's uncertain commitment to Silverlight is the biggest area of
concern for many Microsoft developers at present. Some developers,
development firms, and entire companies have abandoned Silverlight in the
past couple months because one Microsoft manager gave a brief impression
that they were not investing as much as they could into the platform. In
response, Microsoft has been paying a heavy price to turn that perception
around, by hosting free day long Silverlight conferences, writing numerous
blog posts, giving advanced previews of new tools that use Silverlight,
making their development road map public, etc.

Developers definitely do care about a company showing commitment to the
products they sell. Look no further than the Silverlight mess that is still
unfolding. It certainly caused me to scale back my enthusiasm for the
Silverlight platform. If someone is reading this and has no idea what the
Silverlight controversy is, you can start with this blog post where Bob
Muglia first tries to publicly address the developer backlash.
http://team.silverlight.net/announcement/pdc-and-silverlight/
You could also Google http://www.google.com/search?q=silverlight+dead

One of the most famous phrases in the history of marketing: "I'm not only
the Hair Club President, but I'm also a client." Jonas Salk famously tested
his new Polio vaccine on himself and his family to help assure a nervous
public that it was safe. The "I use the product myself" method of
persuasion/sales can be very effective in any industry.

-Mike Chabot

On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 1:42 AM, Dave Watts  wrote:

>
> > I disagree with the suggestion that the technologies major companies
> decide
> > to use is unimportant to developers. I am active in the Microsoft
> developer
> > and database communities and I can say with certainty that Microsoft
> makes a
> > big deal about how they use their own technologies to power their
> company.
>
> Here's a handy Google search:
>
> filetype:swf site:microsoft.com
> estimated results: 11,700
>
> I wonder why that's not all Silverlight?
>
> Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
> http://www.figleaf.com/
> http://training.figleaf.com/
>


~|
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RE: favorite coldfusion host [spamtrap bayes][spamtrap heur]

[Russ Michaels]

CFDynamics do not try to be cheap, which is an advantage in some ways as it
means they can put less customers per server.
When a host has to compete to be the cheapest, they have to try and pile as
many sites per server as possible to make it cost effective, which is where
the problems start.

There are so many issues people are not aware of which can cause issues,
some of which are not even CF related.

For example, badly designed databases being hit with badly written queries
can cause a big bottleneck on the DB server, which in turn causes a
bottleneck on the web servers as requests to the database server start to
queue up.
In this scenario, a site written in ASP/PHP can cause problems for CF sites
and vice versa, on every server with a site connecting to that db server.

This is just pot luck whether you share a server with a customer causing
such problems.

-Original Message-
From: Paul Hastings [mailto:p...@sustainablegis.com] 
Sent: 28 January 2011 01:58
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: favorite coldfusion host [spamtrap bayes][spamtrap heur]


On 1/28/2011 2:07 AM, Larry Lyons wrote:
>
> I've had a lot of good experience with CFDynamics. They're not the 
> cheapest, but they're pretty reasonable. The tech support is first 
> rate however, with the techs actually knowing CF.

yeah, cfdynamics are so reliable i often forget who we host with. pretty
much no drama ever.



~|
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RE: why is cf_builder so expensive?

[Russ Michaels]

Wow, this is way off topic now eh!


There is a well known saying "use the best tool for the job". And as Dave
will agree, CF is not always the best tool for the job, and I guess Adobe
themselves even know that, even Microsoft don’t claim that Winodws/IIS is
the best solution for every job.

For example, If I want to write a custom app from scratch, or it needs to be
something I can easily update myself then I would use CF every time of
course as I know CF and I love CF.
However if I simply want an App that does a specific/common job and I don’t
plan to get my own hands dirty in the code, I will first look to the open
source world, and usually I will find a PHP solution.
For example, if you wanted to build a social networking community then there
is really nothing like this for CF, you would have to write it yourself,
which is a lot of work/time/cost. Or you could go and download ELGG, Dolphin
or one of the many well-known PHP solutions and be up and running in no
time.
If you have the time and thousands of $ available to roll your own exactly
how you want, then awesome, otherwise it is really a no brainer. And this
particular scenario covers so many apps and situations, if you have a client
who doesn’t have the budget for you to write a CF solution and there is no
open source CF solution, what do you do? Look outside the box for a solution
that will fit the job/budget.

It would be gr8 if CF had as many open source apps as PHP, but  CFdevelopers
tend to want to be paid for their work, which I guess is only fair if they
had to pay for CF, plus of course the proportion of cfdeveloper compared to
php developers is tiny, so clearly there is not as many people out there
with the time or inclination to write OSS apps.
Perhaps Railo/OBD will change this, but not by very much I reckon.



-Original Message-
From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwa...@figleaf.com] 
Sent: 28 January 2011 06:40
To: cf-talk
Subject: Re: why is cf_builder so expensive?


> This isn't actually true at all, Dave. To give one high profile 
> example, take Hotmail. Microsoft got a huge amount of shit for the 
> fact that Hotmail ran on Linux (or BSD? I think BSD) with Apache.
> Sure, they bought Hotmail and that was the primary reason. But people 
> kept saying "oh, Windows and IIS can't handle the load so they have to 
> stick with BSD".  There were plenty of tech articles about whether 
> Microsoft could actually run Hotmail on Windows, how expensive it 
> would be, etc.  Finally, MS eventually moved it over but they had to 
> put significant time and energy into the project. They even announced 
> that they had moved it to Windows only to have to retract that 
> statement a couple days later, admitting that some of the bits still 
> ran on BSD. I seem to recall that MS totally fucked up Hotmail in the 
> move as well but that could have been some of their other major screw 
> ups.

Microsoft acquired Hotmail in 1997. They migrated it to Windows in
2000/2001. Apparently, they didn't feel the need to do this very quickly.
And I think there's a significant difference. At the time, there was a real,
open question about whether Windows could fill this niche. Current versions
really couldn't. NT 4 and IIS 3 and 4 weren't capable of doing this. But no
one doubts that, say, the free RIA tools site could be written in CF. Large
parts of the main Adobe site are, in fact, written in CF.

> Eating your own dogfood is still an important concept in the tech 
> world and I think you sell it short.

Adobe has a lot of different dog food, though. They have CF, LiveCycle, Day
Software, and Contribute/Dreamweaver. Which one of those should they pick?
As a tools vendor, they make products that explicitly are designed to
interact with Java, ASP.NET and PHP:
Dreamweaver, Flash Builder, LiveCycle Workbench. The Flex team probably has
more customers using PHP than CF. The Flash team certainly does.

Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software
http://www.figleaf.com/
http://training.figleaf.com/

Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule,
and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our
training centers, online, or onsit



~|
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Re: Application.cfc & cfinclude

[Will Tomlinson]

> Hi Folks - 
> 
> I am feeling dumb and either I am missing something simple or it's way 
> above me.
> 
> In my application.cfc, I was going to have a cfinclude that would pull 
> in my DB Name, user name, and password.
> 

I would store those variables in application scope in onApplicationStart(). 
Then reference them from there. 

But I pass them into data access cfc objects in my init()'s in 
onApplicationStart(), and save to variables in the data access cfc. Then in 
your queries, it'll look like http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion
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Re: why is cf_builder so expensive?

[Michael Grant]

haha. what a great way to start the day! ha. Thanks for that.


On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 2:55 AM, rex  wrote:

>
> I hope this is funny for you guys because it was funny for me
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwzklHZqkbE
>
> Ballmer seems like a nice guy.  It wasn't an iPhone, so he didn't smash
> it ;-)
>
>
> On 1/27/2011 10:14 PM, Mike Chabot wrote:
> > products. The CEO of Coca-Cola will never be seen enjoying a Pepsi. Steve
> > Balmer will never be seen talking on an iPhone. If someone handed him one
> he
> > would smash it on the ground as quickly and as forcefully as he could.
> Adobe
> > appears to lack the same internal pressure and competitive spirit that
> >
>
> 

~|
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