Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference? [spamtrap bayes][spamtrap heur]
On Sun, Jan 30, 2011 at 10:34 PM, Paul Hastings wrote: On 1/31/2011 11:02 AM, denstar wrote: It was based on a percent. So I guess the real number would be 170 out of a 1000. I think. 17%? I suck at math. you said 17 out of 100 people who replied to that survey. that's a useless sample size. Yeah, but I worded it more to sound statistical-ish. Either way... freaking statistics, neh? Brian has a point about the survey, too. Still relatively useless, I reckon. It's all about perspective (or 1000 is a bit better but still tiny compared to the community. My overall point was that surely there's *some* non-zero number of people trying/using coldfusion that wouldn't before, if not just because of the fact that it was a closed architecture. If the number had been 0, perhaps. no, a sample of 1 is still not really worth mentioning besides the fact that it really can't be the only reason for the swap. Why not? Surely money is a factor most places? If you gotta choose between paying a coder, and paying a license... well I guess that sucks, and it should never be like that in Software Land, but hell, it happens. I'd rather have the coder. Even if CFML gives one coder the strength of ten. =) once again be the engine powering said crap. If I switch to PHP, there is, IMHO, markedly less of a chance for Adobe to ever be the engine powering my crap. perhaps but it's hard to say exactly why a shop would swap technologies. sometimes its a stupid a reason as what some clown wrote in one of those tech rags like sys-con. It can be all kinds of stuff. I see hiring CF coders come up quite often, but it's easy as snot to train folks. People like the stuff they like though, be it just cuz they like it, or they read about it in a blog or magazine or some such. Having open source engine alternatives is more ammo for folks fighting for CFML use, hands down. How someone could see this as bad for the language, or us, as coders in said language, is beyond me. And let us not forget that a lot of pointy-headed-bosses *love* big yes that's true but those same pointy-headed-bosses keep a lot of developers employed. Exactly. And a lot of corporate help line call center employees employed. And a lot of lawyers employed. And a lot of other big muckity-mucks gainfully employed. It's almost like a club or separate ecosystem. Super-huge-corp-X would probably naturally gravitate towards Adobe, as they'd be like, on the same team, sorta. I'd guess that it's there, where the Real Money is made anyways. In The Enterprise. I think there's plenty of room for both public and private. I still wouldn't mind seeing the figures. Anecdotal-ish-ly, it seems like the number of OSS projects has exploded over the last couple years. perhaps but it's just as likely that there is now a place to put publicize those OS projects (you know, the one that adobe sponsors). as i said my OS stuff has nothing to do w/either of those. and let me also point out that most of ray-the-OS-engine's apps predate railo/BD going OS. i don't see any causal relationship. Causation, correlation. Yeah. I can dig it. It personally effected me, but I'm just an individual, like everybody else. And to be clear, I'm not knocking Adobe. I'm not saying that they hate open source software or some such. I think they do a lot of stuff that's good. Way more than they get credit for in general, on the list. I like how if you search for CFML, the dev center is the second link on Google. No other language I looked at had that going for it. I like how they sponsor open source projects for incorporating AIR into things and whatnot. It would be cool if more of the sexy CFML apps were listed under Third Party Whatsists, and the category wasn't called Third Party Stuff or whatever. Sorta a showcase of sorts. Neither of the open source engines are pushing things like Mango Blog either, but hell, I could probably send either one a page to put up if I cared that much. That's what's awesome about open source. Well, really, it's that, when I'm like, why the hell is this doing that?, I don't have to get crazy with a decompiler (not that I'd ever decompile anything, this is just an example). Or, when I'm all like, I want this to do that /I can make it happen/! Self-reliance, even if you don't take advantage of it, is a wicked-cool thing to have. But so are stamp collections, to some people, so, take it with a grain of salt. Deadly seriously. =) you claim that prior to BD/railo failing as commercial projects there was no stability in CF? geez that's a stretch. The kind of stability I'm talking of? Obviously not, unless you think whoever owned it at the time would have open sourced it, so it would live on. Would you put money on that? Or would you just live with the bugs in the version that came out in 1999, as it were? 10 years later, saying it's not dead, the last version was just perfect? Do most companies
Re: Should I build my app as an API?
Thanks Michael, those were my initial thoughts on this as well. I'm glad to see someone else is doing it successfully. Just out of curiosity, are you doing this with any high traffic sites? Or, do you have any cases where other people/sites/services are also using your API? Thanks, Eric Cobb ECAR Technologies, LLC http://www.ecartech.com http://www.cfgears.com On 1/28/2011 6:49 PM, Michael Grant wrote: I've done this approach a number of times and quite like it. The parent site is just a consumer of your api. You become your own first beta tester and helps identify issues before you roll out to the public. Plus if you need changes made you make them directly to the api and not just your own site. That way you can always be sure what you are experiencing is the same as what a client is. +1 for this approach. On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Eric Cobbcft...@ecartech.com wrote: I'm getting ready to start working on what I hope is to become a pretty large side project. Right now I'm in the planning phases, and one of the (eventual) plans is to have a full API that others can use to interact with the site. When thinking about this, I came up with an idea that I wanted to run by you guys to get some opinions. Instead of taking the usual approach of building the site like I want then adding an API to it, what if I were to just build out the API first, then build my site off of that API? Has anyone ever done this, or have any ideas on this? I'm really hoping to get a good discussion going on this, so please let me know what you think! -- Thanks, Eric Cobb ECAR Technologies, LLC http://www.ecartech.com http://www.cfgears.com ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341709 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Should I build my app as an API?
Thanks Andy. I didn't realize that ColdBox had REST baked in, I'll have to look in to that. I know that there's been some buzz lately about REST with Mach-II as well, but I haven't had a chance to look into any of it either. Thanks, Eric Cobb ECAR Technologies, LLC http://www.ecartech.com http://www.cfgears.com On 1/28/2011 8:12 PM, andy matthews wrote: Also, consider looking into ColdBox. It's built from the ground up to allow for REST: http://www.simonfree.com/presentations/ -Original Message- From: Eric Cobb [mailto:cft...@ecartech.com] Sent: Friday, January 28, 2011 8:20 AM To: cf-talk Subject: Should I build my app as an API? I'm getting ready to start working on what I hope is to become a pretty large side project. Right now I'm in the planning phases, and one of the (eventual) plans is to have a full API that others can use to interact with the site. When thinking about this, I came up with an idea that I wanted to run by you guys to get some opinions. Instead of taking the usual approach of building the site like I want then adding an API to it, what if I were to just build out the API first, then build my site off of that API? Has anyone ever done this, or have any ideas on this? I'm really hoping to get a good discussion going on this, so please let me know what you think! ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341710 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Should I build my app as an API?
Not high traffic, no. Yes the service is being consumed by a number of other businesses. Not many, perhaps a few dozen. On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 9:17 AM, Eric Cobb cft...@ecartech.com wrote: Thanks Michael, those were my initial thoughts on this as well. I'm glad to see someone else is doing it successfully. Just out of curiosity, are you doing this with any high traffic sites? Or, do you have any cases where other people/sites/services are also using your API? Thanks, Eric Cobb ECAR Technologies, LLC http://www.ecartech.com http://www.cfgears.com On 1/28/2011 6:49 PM, Michael Grant wrote: I've done this approach a number of times and quite like it. The parent site is just a consumer of your api. You become your own first beta tester and helps identify issues before you roll out to the public. Plus if you need changes made you make them directly to the api and not just your own site. That way you can always be sure what you are experiencing is the same as what a client is. +1 for this approach. On Fri, Jan 28, 2011 at 9:19 AM, Eric Cobbcft...@ecartech.com wrote: I'm getting ready to start working on what I hope is to become a pretty large side project. Right now I'm in the planning phases, and one of the (eventual) plans is to have a full API that others can use to interact with the site. When thinking about this, I came up with an idea that I wanted to run by you guys to get some opinions. Instead of taking the usual approach of building the site like I want then adding an API to it, what if I were to just build out the API first, then build my site off of that API? Has anyone ever done this, or have any ideas on this? I'm really hoping to get a good discussion going on this, so please let me know what you think! -- Thanks, Eric Cobb ECAR Technologies, LLC http://www.ecartech.com http://www.cfgears.com ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341711 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
cffile within cflayout doesn't work?
Has anyone run into an issue when uploading a file within a cflayout? After submitting, I get a element is undefined in form. When I take my form out of cflayout it works fine. Any ideas?? Thanks! Tim ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341712 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: cffile within cflayout doesn't work?
When you have a form inside a cflayout, CF auto translates it to a Ajax based form. You can't (*) to file uploads with Ajax-based forms. * There are - of course - work arounds. On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 10:01 AM, Tim Do t...@wng.com wrote: Has anyone run into an issue when uploading a file within a cflayout? After submitting, I get a element is undefined in form. When I take my form out of cflayout it works fine. Any ideas?? Thanks! Tim ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341713 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: cffile within cflayout doesn't work?
You can't upload a file via an ajax window. It's a browsr restriction as far as I know. The trick is to embed a hidden iframe and do the file upload there. Also, there's a handy jquery plugin which takes care of this: http://jquery.malsup.com/form/ -Jake Sent from my Droid On Jan 31, 2011 8:01 AM, Tim Do t...@wng.com wrote: Has anyone run into an issue when uploading a file within a cflayout? After submitting, I get a element is undefined in form. When I take my form out of cflayout it works fine. Any ideas?? Thanks! Tim ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341714 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
CFLoop query, break if condition met
I have this Cfloop over a query. In the loop I have 4 conditional statements that basically call a template that generates an email if the condition is met. Let's say condition 1 is met, is there a way to break the loop and go to the next index and start at the beginning of the code? Structure: cfloop query=getDate cfif some expression 1 !--- Some args and calling in a email template --- /cfif cfif some expression 2 !--- Some args and calling in a email template --- /cfif cfif some expression 3 !--- Some args and calling in a email template --- /cfif cfif some expression 4 !--- Some args and calling in a email template --- /cfif /cfloop ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341715 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: CFLoop query, break if condition met
use CFSWITCH instead of a sequence of CFIFs On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Adam Bourg adam.bo...@gmail.com wrote: I have this Cfloop over a query. In the loop I have 4 conditional statements that basically call a template that generates an email if the condition is met. Let's say condition 1 is met, is there a way to break the loop and go to the next index and start at the beginning of the code? Structure: cfloop query=getDate cfif some expression 1 !--- Some args and calling in a email template --- /cfif cfif some expression 2 !--- Some args and calling in a email template --- /cfif cfif some expression 3 !--- Some args and calling in a email template --- /cfif cfif some expression 4 !--- Some args and calling in a email template --- /cfif /cfloop ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341716 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: CFLoop query, break if condition met
cfbreak / On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Adam Bourg adam.bo...@gmail.com wrote: I have this Cfloop over a query. In the loop I have 4 conditional statements that basically call a template that generates an email if the condition is met. Let's say condition 1 is met, is there a way to break the loop and go to the next index and start at the beginning of the code? Structure: cfloop query=getDate cfif some expression 1 !--- Some args and calling in a email template --- /cfif cfif some expression 2 !--- Some args and calling in a email template --- /cfif cfif some expression 3 !--- Some args and calling in a email template --- /cfif cfif some expression 4 !--- Some args and calling in a email template --- /cfif /cfloop ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341717 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: CFLoop query, break if condition met
I need to make a revision. I have an if with a nested if. How do I do it with this? cfif LTE someCondition1 cfif GT someCondition2 !--- Code here --- /cfif /cfif I have this Cfloop over a query. In the loop I have 4 conditional statements that basically call a template that generates an email if the condition is met. Let's say condition 1 is met, is there a way to break the loop and go to the next index and start at the beginning of the code? Structure: cfloop query=getDate cfif some expression 1 !--- Some args and calling in a email template --- /cfif cfif some expression 2 !--- Some args and calling in a email template --- /cfif cfif some expression 3 !--- Some args and calling in a email template --- /cfif cfif some expression 4 !--- Some args and calling in a email template --- /cfif /cfloop ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341718 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: CFLoop query, break if condition met
Sorry, just read the rest of the comment. I got a little send happy. Try cfcontinue / On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 11:26 AM, Michael Grant mgr...@modus.bz wrote: cfbreak / On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 11:11 AM, Adam Bourg adam.bo...@gmail.com wrote: I have this Cfloop over a query. In the loop I have 4 conditional statements that basically call a template that generates an email if the condition is met. Let's say condition 1 is met, is there a way to break the loop and go to the next index and start at the beginning of the code? Structure: cfloop query=getDate cfif some expression 1 !--- Some args and calling in a email template --- /cfif cfif some expression 2 !--- Some args and calling in a email template --- /cfif cfif some expression 3 !--- Some args and calling in a email template --- /cfif cfif some expression 4 !--- Some args and calling in a email template --- /cfif /cfloop ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341719 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: CFLoop query, break if condition met
cfif LTE someCondition1 cfif GT someCondition2 !--- Code here --- cfcontinue / /cfif /cfif ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341720 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: CFLoop query, break if condition met
I should add, this is CF9. If you are using a version of CF that doesn't have cfcontinue you will have to go about it a different way. If it's really just as simple as meeting the two conditions to skip the current iteration you could just set a var. pseudo: var doContinue=false if condition1 and condition2 - set doContinue = true if not doContinue - do rest of code hth On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 11:40 AM, Michael Grant mgr...@modus.bz wrote: cfif LTE someCondition1 cfif GT someCondition2 !--- Code here --- cfcontinue / /cfif /cfif ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341721 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Query of query help
Hi all, hoping for some advice with querying a query - at least I think that's what's a good fit here but feel free to advise otherwise. I've got a folder which contains 35,000 folders. I've also got a table with lots of records, where the roomid column matches the name of one of the folders. I know some folders do not have a matching record, and I want to identify those records. cfdirectory action=list name=roomList type=dir directory=#roomsDir# cfquery datasource=#dsn# name=roomsDB SELECT roomid from rooms /cfquery I *think* I need to do something along these lines: cfquery name=orphanRooms dbtype=query select * from roomList WHERE name ... /cfquery But somehow I cannot figure out the correct syntax. The resultset from orphanRooms should contain all the records that are in roomList but not in roomsDB. Any help appreciated. Stefan ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341722 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: favorite coldfusion host
Curious to see what everybody's favorite coldfusion host is also? Hostek? CrystalTech? DailyRazor? I've had really good service from Enterhost. The difference of course is that I went the dedicated server, and a pumped-up one at that. I used to host with Viux, and while their support was pretty good, they required that you use the console software, which I detest, and charged you the extra $100/ mo for it. Just give me an RDP connection and I'm good. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341723 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Query of query help
Um, did you try the where clause? You said it didn't work - how did it not work? Can you show us the full code and the error? On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Stefan Richter ste...@flashcomguru.com wrote: Hi all, hoping for some advice with querying a query - at least I think that's what's a good fit here but feel free to advise otherwise. I've got a folder which contains 35,000 folders. I've also got a table with lots of records, where the roomid column matches the name of one of the folders. I know some folders do not have a matching record, and I want to identify those records. cfdirectory action=list name=roomList type=dir directory=#roomsDir# ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341724 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
re: Query of query help
Yes, QoQ will work here. !--- get your folders --- cfdirectory action=list name=roomList type=dir directory=#roomsDir# !--- get the rooms from the DB --- cfquery datasource=#dsn# name=roomsDB SELECT roomid FROM rooms /cfquery cfoutput query=roomList !--- loop through the folders and check against the rooms in the DB --- cfquery dbtype=query name=orphanRoom SELECT name FROM roomsDB WHERE roomid = '#name#' /cfquery cfif not orphanRoom.recordCount !--- flag this as a room without a folder --- /cfif /cfoutput ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341725 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Query of query help
I've got a folder which contains 35,000 folders. Setting aside your QoQ question, you may have problems simply traversing a folder with this many items in it. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341726 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: favorite coldfusion host
KickAssVPS Great support, very little down-time (occasional maintenance), RDP (which is all I use) Win 2008, CF 8/9, etc. -Original Message- From: Michael Muller [mailto:ad...@montaguema.net] Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 12:47 PM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: favorite coldfusion host Curious to see what everybody's favorite coldfusion host is also? Hostek? CrystalTech? DailyRazor? I've had really good service from Enterhost. The difference of course is that I went the dedicated server, and a pumped-up one at that. I used to host with Viux, and while their support was pretty good, they required that you use the console software, which I detest, and charged you the extra $100/ mo for it. Just give me an RDP connection and I'm good. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341727 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: favorite coldfusion host
+1,000,000 for Enterhost dedicated servers. I've been with them for many years now. Every year or so I shop around just to keep them honest, and every year or so I stay put. Why? They're unbeatable, both in service and price. The best thing about their service? I rarely ever need them, and on the odd occasion that I do, they're extremely responsive. And to clarify on price, when you're getting quotes, make sure you know what you're actually getting for the price you're being quoted. You can quickly find dozens of hosts that will give you cheaper pricing than Enterhost will, but when you look at the fine print you realize that you have to add all kinds of things (like firewalls, for example) to get a true setup. Enterhost includes everything in one up-front price. On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 11:46 AM, Michael Muller wrote: Curious to see what everybody's favorite coldfusion host is also? Hostek? CrystalTech? DailyRazor? I've had really good service from Enterhost. The difference of course is that I went the dedicated server, and a pumped-up one at that. I used to host with Viux, and while their support was pretty good, they required that you use the console software, which I detest, and charged you the extra $100/ mo for it. Just give me an RDP connection and I'm good. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341728 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
CFinput type=file validation on submit
Hi, I'm trying to create a input form that will only accept PDF's and images. I've tried validateat=onsubmit, but haven't had any luck returning an error to the user. Any suggestions? Here's the code: cfinput type=file required=no name=cprAdultImage value= accept=application/pdf,image/tiff,image/jpeg,image/x-png / ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341729 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: CFinput type=file validation on submit
Hi, I'm trying to create a input form that will only accept PDF's and images. accept=application/pdf,image/tiff,image/jpeg,image/x-png The accept attribute is used on CFFILE when it's performing the upload action on the target page, not within the CFINPUT tag itself. CFFILE compares the mime/type of the file as submitted by the browser against the list specified to see if there is a match. You would then need to wrap CFFILE with CFTRY/CFCATCH to catch the error and handle it appropriately. -Justin ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341730 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: SpoolLockTimeoutException
On Thu, Nov 4, 2010 at 10:41 AM, Tim Do wrote: An exception occurred when setting up mail server parameters. This exception was caused by: coldfusion.mail.MailSpooler$SpoolLockTimeoutException: A timeout occurred while waiting for the lock on the mail spool directory.. We've been getting this error recently and had to restart jrun to get it to start again. Reading that this is a common problem in versions 7/8 and can be fixed w/ hotfixes and even uninstalling latest updates but we're on 9 here. Hmm, after never seeing this error message before in my life (even way back on 6.x/7.x), this suddenly started happening to us on CF9.0.1. We've been on 9 for several months, even, but it just started happening sometime within the last 48-ish hours. After doing a bunch of reading I was unable to find any sure fire solution, or detail as to why it was occurring in the first place, but restarting the CF instance got it running again. Does anyone have any information on what the cause of this would be? Thanks! ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341731 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Query of query help
Thanks. Guess what I was trying to avoid was a loop with 35,000 queries... I was trying to come up wit a clever way to do this in one SQL statement. One issue I noticed is that QoQ does not to seem to (easily?) support joins. Then again I'm no SQL ninja by any means. S On 31 Jan 2011, at 17:54, Jason Fisher wrote: Yes, QoQ will work here. !--- get your folders --- cfdirectory action=list name=roomList type=dir directory=#roomsDir# !--- get the rooms from the DB --- cfquery datasource=#dsn# name=roomsDB SELECT roomid FROM rooms /cfquery cfoutput query=roomList !--- loop through the folders and check against the rooms in the DB --- cfquery dbtype=query name=orphanRoom SELECT name FROM roomsDB WHERE roomid = '#name#' /cfquery cfif not orphanRoom.recordCount !--- flag this as a room without a folder --- /cfif /cfoutput ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341732 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Query of query help
Thanks Dave, listing the folders performs a lot better than I expected, so that's not my issue here. Cheers Stefan On 31 Jan 2011, at 17:57, Dave Watts wrote: I've got a folder which contains 35,000 folders. Setting aside your QoQ question, you may have problems simply traversing a folder with this many items in it. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341733 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Spell check?
Any suggestions on a decent spell check engine? (Preferably one that works for both English and Spanish.) Need one that runs entirely on the server in a closed environment, or at the least has the server making the API calls, not the client. Any ideas? -Justin ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341734 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Query of query help
Stefan, This might work ... can't remember if the IN () function works in QoQ or not. !--- get a list of all the rooms from the DB (after you query) --- cfset roomList = valueList(roomsDB.roomid) / !--- now query to get folders that are not in the rooms DB list --- cfquery dbtype=query name=roomsOK SELECT * FROM roomList WHERE name NOT IN ( cfqueryparam cfsqltype=cf_sql_varchar value=#roomList# list=true / ) /cfquery From: Stefan Richter ste...@flashcomguru.com Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 2:42 PM To: cf-talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: Re: Query of query help Thanks. Guess what I was trying to avoid was a loop with 35,000 queries... I was trying to come up wit a clever way to do this in one SQL statement. One issue I noticed is that QoQ does not to seem to (easily?) support joins. Then again I'm no SQL ninja by any means. S On 31 Jan 2011, at 17:54, Jason Fisher wrote: Yes, QoQ will work here. !--- get your folders --- cfdirectory action=list name=roomList type=dir directory=#roomsDir# !--- get the rooms from the DB --- cfquery datasource=#dsn# name=roomsDB SELECT roomid FROM rooms /cfquery cfoutput query=roomList !--- loop through the folders and check against the rooms in the DB --- cfquery dbtype=query name=orphanRoom SELECT name FROM roomsDB WHERE roomid = '#name#' /cfquery cfif not orphanRoom.recordCount !--- flag this as a room without a folder --- /cfif /cfoutput ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341735 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Spell check?
Jspell and ASpell is pretty popular/common spell check plugin. or take a look at http://www.spellchecker.net/ http://www.spellchecker.net/ On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 8:09 PM, Justin Scott leviat...@darktech.orgwrote: Any suggestions on a decent spell check engine? (Preferably one that works for both English and Spanish.) Need one that runs entirely on the server in a closed environment, or at the least has the server making the API calls, not the client. Any ideas? -Justin ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341736 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Query of query help
I was trying something like this: cfquery name=orphanRooms dbtype=query select * from roomList WHERE name = 'x' cfloop query=roomsDBOR roomList.name = '#roomid#' /cfloop /cfquery I think I am getting somewhere with it. Anything inherently wrong with this? Stefan On 31 Jan 2011, at 17:54, Raymond Camden wrote: Um, did you try the where clause? You said it didn't work - how did it not work? Can you show us the full code and the error? On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 11:48 AM, Stefan Richter ste...@flashcomguru.com wrote: Hi all, hoping for some advice with querying a query - at least I think that's what's a good fit here but feel free to advise otherwise. I've got a folder which contains 35,000 folders. I've also got a table with lots of records, where the roomid column matches the name of one of the folders. I know some folders do not have a matching record, and I want to identify those records. cfdirectory action=list name=roomList type=dir directory=#roomsDir# ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341737 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Query of query help
Ah great, an interesting approach. Many thanks. Stefan On 31 Jan 2011, at 20:10, Jason Fisher wrote: Stefan, This might work ... can't remember if the IN () function works in QoQ or not. !--- get a list of all the rooms from the DB (after you query) --- cfset roomList = valueList(roomsDB.roomid) / !--- now query to get folders that are not in the rooms DB list --- cfquery dbtype=query name=roomsOK SELECT * FROM roomList WHERE name NOT IN ( cfqueryparam cfsqltype=cf_sql_varchar value=#roomList# list=true / ) /cfquery ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341738 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Spell check?
We use Jspell as well. I am happy with it over all. However, we needed to have it check individual fields one at a time which the version we purchased did not do out of the box. I remember it being a *bear* to get it to work in that manner. I don't know if that is one of your requirements but I thought I would let you know beforehand that it can be difficult to get it to behave that way. G! On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 3:12 PM, Russ Michaels r...@michaels.me.uk wrote: Jspell and ASpell is pretty popular/common spell check plugin. or take a look at http://www.spellchecker.net/ http://www.spellchecker.net/ On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 8:09 PM, Justin Scott leviat...@darktech.org wrote: Any suggestions on a decent spell check engine? (Preferably one that works for both English and Spanish.) Need one that runs entirely on the server in a closed environment, or at the least has the server making the API calls, not the client. Any ideas? -Justin ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341739 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Query of query help
Nope, nothing wrong with it. There may be a limit on the number of statements in a QoQ WHERE clause, though I don't know. I know the old Microsoft JET database engine used to have a logical limit of 40 statements in the WHERE clause. Just something to note if it bombs on 30,000 statements ... From: Stefan Richter ste...@flashcomguru.com Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 3:21 PM To: cf-talk cf-talk@houseoffusion.com Subject: Re: Query of query help I was trying something like this: cfquery name=orphanRooms dbtype=query select * from roomList WHERE name = 'x' cfloop query=roomsDBOR roomList.name = '#roomid#' /cfloop /cfquery I think I am getting somewhere with it. Anything inherently wrong with this? Stefan ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341740 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
Denny, I think you see the world as you would hope it to be, not for the reality that it is. A commendable quality, but not one Adobe can choose to share with so many CFML careers on the line. It's been 3 years since OpenBD/Railo went open source and removed the price barrier to CFML adoption. 3 years since they gave up their attempts to compete with Adobe commercially. 3 years since they proclaimed CFML is not worth paying for. At any time Adobe could have made (or will make) ColdFusion free. Problem is, cost is not the only barrier to adoption -- a reality many seem to ignore. So, 3 years later, our community for all intensive purposes seems to be shrinking (we have more CF jobs than developers). On top of losing CFML developers, we now have a large amount a fragmentation. It would seem that anything Adobe does in the CFML space is directly combated by the Open CF movement. Because of this, CFML has increasingly become more and more toxic for Adobe. I can't tell you how hard it is to fight for this community within Adobe when a small external faction is recklessly trying to tear it down. How can I ask Adobe to invest $$$ into growing the CFML developer community when our ability to get a return is dramatically reduced? The fact is, the Donna Bing's of the world (and the rest of the Open CF community) have all but written off Adobe and ColdFusion. They've decided to no longer invest any money in CFML and won't even give Adobe guidance to change. This is an honest and genuine question: Are CFML developers better off today than they were 3 years ago? At the rate of which things are progressing, will they be better off in 2014? Would they be better of w/o Adobe ColdFusion? -Adam PS. Sorry to make this all about money, but that's one of the realities we have to face about our current ecosystem. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341741 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
for all intensive purposes Must.Resist. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341742 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
You want to know why I've been moving my projects from Adobe CF to Railo, Adam? It's quite simple, really. Railo is a better product for me. I've not had a very good experience with Adobe as a cfml developer and I've had a much better experience with Railo as a cfml developer. Yes, even with a support contract with Adobe. You can complain all you want about a small faction trying to recklessly tear down the community but that's bullshit. Railo performs faster as a product and the company is more responsive to developers. That's why I use it. If you want me as a developer (and it certainly seems like you don't), now you know how to get me back. I don't have anything against Adobe as a company, I'm not an angry, ranting open source purist. I'm happy for Adobe to make money off it's products and I'm glad of the things they have already done in the open source space (like the Flex SDK). End of the day, though, I'm here to develop great applications and hopefully to enjoy the process of doing so. Make developers more productive, their applications perform faster and be responsive to their concerns and I'm sure Adobe will do wonderfully. Complaining about open source projects isn't the way to woo me though, gotta say. Judah On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 1:47 PM, Adrocknaphobia adrocknapho...@gmail.com wrote: Denny, I think you see the world as you would hope it to be, not for the reality that it is. A commendable quality, but not one Adobe can choose to share with so many CFML careers on the line. It's been 3 years since OpenBD/Railo went open source and removed the price barrier to CFML adoption. 3 years since they gave up their attempts to compete with Adobe commercially. 3 years since they proclaimed CFML is not worth paying for. At any time Adobe could have made (or will make) ColdFusion free. Problem is, cost is not the only barrier to adoption -- a reality many seem to ignore. So, 3 years later, our community for all intensive purposes seems to be shrinking (we have more CF jobs than developers). On top of losing CFML developers, we now have a large amount a fragmentation. It would seem that anything Adobe does in the CFML space is directly combated by the Open CF movement. Because of this, CFML has increasingly become more and more toxic for Adobe. I can't tell you how hard it is to fight for this community within Adobe when a small external faction is recklessly trying to tear it down. How can I ask Adobe to invest $$$ into growing the CFML developer community when our ability to get a return is dramatically reduced? The fact is, the Donna Bing's of the world (and the rest of the Open CF community) have all but written off Adobe and ColdFusion. They've decided to no longer invest any money in CFML and won't even give Adobe guidance to change. This is an honest and genuine question: Are CFML developers better off today than they were 3 years ago? At the rate of which things are progressing, will they be better off in 2014? Would they be better of w/o Adobe ColdFusion? -Adam PS. Sorry to make this all about money, but that's one of the realities we have to face about our current ecosystem. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341743 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
What are we actually debating, again? The original issue at the root of all this was that Adobe is being abusive to the OSS engines. Highlighting the competitive advantages that Adobe feels they have over Railo or OpenBD, or the negative impact they feel it those engines have on the Adobe or CF community, is not abuse. It is exactly what competitors do. Everyone is free to agree or disagree with what Adobe is saying. But to call it abuse reveals, at best, a lack of understanding of what the word means, and at worst, an intentional misrepresentation. I keep asking for some examples of the horrible abuse that Adobe (or anyone, really) are directing at the OSS engines, but no one seems to be bothering to provide any. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341744 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
You have it exactly backwards, Brian. Adam accused the Open Source cfml community of being abusive toward Adobe. And I quote from Adam: The open CF side of the community couldn't be more abusive towards Adobe. It's laughable to think that the community holding the OS vendors accountable would make someone leave CF. I called Adam out on this statement and will continue to do so. The Railo and CFEclipse lists, at least, are quite far from abusive toward Adobe. I do not monitor the OpenBD lists, so perhaps there is something going on there that I am unaware of. But the accusation of abuse came from Adam, not the other way around. Judah On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 3:12 PM, Brian Kotek brian...@gmail.com wrote: What are we actually debating, again? The original issue at the root of all this was that Adobe is being abusive to the OSS engines. Highlighting the competitive advantages that Adobe feels they have over Railo or OpenBD, or the negative impact they feel it those engines have on the Adobe or CF community, is not abuse. It is exactly what competitors do. Everyone is free to agree or disagree with what Adobe is saying. But to call it abuse reveals, at best, a lack of understanding of what the word means, and at worst, an intentional misrepresentation. I keep asking for some examples of the horrible abuse that Adobe (or anyone, really) are directing at the OSS engines, but no one seems to be bothering to provide any. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341745 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
The only abuse I've seen from Adobehttp://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=For%20all%20intensive%20purposeswas abuse of the English language. /me runs On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 6:12 PM, Brian Kotek brian...@gmail.com wrote: What are we actually debating, again? The original issue at the root of all this was that Adobe is being abusive to the OSS engines. Highlighting the competitive advantages that Adobe feels they have over Railo or OpenBD, or the negative impact they feel it those engines have on the Adobe or CF community, is not abuse. It is exactly what competitors do. Everyone is free to agree or disagree with what Adobe is saying. But to call it abuse reveals, at best, a lack of understanding of what the word means, and at worst, an intentional misrepresentation. I keep asking for some examples of the horrible abuse that Adobe (or anyone, really) are directing at the OSS engines, but no one seems to be bothering to provide any. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341746 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
I agree with you, who really cares what Adobe say about Railo or vice versa, as you say this is normal competitive practice and any company need to prove their product is the best and normal practice is to say our product does this, theirs doesn't, so no-one is doing anything wrong there. The blurred line however seems to be whether it is the OSS or the people who use it getting the abuse. From what I have seen and experienced it is the users dishing out most of the abuse, and many of them really should know better. On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 11:12 PM, Brian Kotek brian...@gmail.com wrote: What are we actually debating, again? The original issue at the root of all this was that Adobe is being abusive to the OSS engines. Highlighting the competitive advantages that Adobe feels they have over Railo or OpenBD, or the negative impact they feel it those engines have on the Adobe or CF community, is not abuse. It is exactly what competitors do. Everyone is free to agree or disagree with what Adobe is saying. But to call it abuse reveals, at best, a lack of understanding of what the word means, and at worst, an intentional misrepresentation. I keep asking for some examples of the horrible abuse that Adobe (or anyone, really) are directing at the OSS engines, but no one seems to be bothering to provide any. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341747 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
You have it exactly backwards, Brian. Adam accused the Open Source cfml community of being abusive toward Adobe. And I quote from Adam: The open CF side of the community couldn't be more abusive towards Adobe. It's laughable to think that the community holding the OS vendors accountable would make someone leave CF. I called Adam out on this statement and will continue to do so. The Railo and CFEclipse lists, at least, are quite far from abusive toward Adobe. I do not monitor the OpenBD lists, so perhaps there is something going on there that I am unaware of. But the accusation of abuse came from Adam, not the other way around. That's a response from Adam to a post by Russ. You may want to read that post. To save you the trouble of finding it, here's the relevant line: Attitude of the CF community (mainly caused by certain people being abusive to Railo/BD) Attitude of Adobe Now, I don't really have a dog in this fight - while I'm an Adobe partner, and resell Adobe products, I simply haven't seen any impact on that business from the open-source engines. But I haven't seen anything I'd qualify as abuse coming from either Adobe or anyone speaking on Adobe's behalf, even indirectly. It's not abuse to point out the cannibalistic effect that competing open-source engines may have on the ColdFusion market. It strikes me as kind of absurd for the people arguing in favor of these engines to say that they'll draw new developers to CF; perhaps they'll keep people on CF who would otherwise leave, but those are two different things. To me, really only one thing is certain - if ColdFusion does not continue to make money for Adobe, they'll drop it like yesterday's news. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341748 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 1:47 PM, Adrocknaphobia adrocknapho...@gmail.com wrote: So, 3 years later, our community for all intensive purposes seems to be shrinking (we have more CF jobs than developers). But didn't you hold up the Evans Data Corp analysis, as recently as CFUnited 2010, to show that the number of CF developers has been increasing over recent years? According to those numbers, the community doubled from 400k to 800k since the Adobe acquisition of Macromedia (and had gone from 250k to 400k in the year prior to the Adobe acquisition): http://beacon.wharton.upenn.edu/brainstorm/files/2009/06/cf_dev_pop_increase.jpg Are you now saying that the numbers have decreased since 2008 (the last year shown in that graph)? The ColdFusion Evangelist Kit (last updated March 18, 2010) on the Adobe site includes the EDC numbers and states: * 12,000+ companies (20% increase since 2007) * 778,000 developers * 1,089,000 applications * 350+ user groups * 11,000 downloads per month Those seem pretty health numbers to me - are you now saying those numbers aren't accurate? Railo's mailing list has just under 900 developers and the download statistics indicate 2,500 - 3,000 downloads a months. Unless Adobe's downloads have dropped to 8,000 downloads per month since March 18, 2010, doesn't that indicate that more people than ever are downloading a CFML engine which would mean the market is growing, not shrinking? And this doesn't include an OpenBD numbers. On top of losing CFML developers, we now have a large amount a fragmentation. What do you see as fragmentation? I see open source projects deliberately supporting all three major engines so code portability can be maintained. I see Adobe and Railo both sponsoring conferences, helping the community reach more developers. I see a lot of developers using multiple CFML engines rather than using some other technology for projects where they couldn't afford Adobe ColdFusion. Using CFML for all projects is better than using PHP for some projects, yes? It would seem that anything Adobe does in the CFML space is directly combated by the Open CF movement. I'm not quite sure what you mean by the Open CF movement nor what you think is being directly combated. Can you provide some specific examples of something Adobe has done that has been directly combated? Do you feel that JBoss or Apache Geronimo are destroying IBM (WebSphere) or Oracle (WebLogic, Oracle AS) or that the OpenJDK project is harming the proprietary JVM vendors? This is an honest and genuine question: Are CFML developers better off today than they were 3 years ago? Well, the economy has hurt a lot of people in all walks of life so that might have to be factored into any answers - but I'll be interested to see what people say about this. PS. Sorry to make this all about money, but that's one of the realities we have to face about our current ecosystem. Have you read The Cathedral and the Bazaar? Just curious. -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/ An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341749 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
Thank you, Dave, I missed that bit. When I read Adam's post he wasn't directly quoting another post so I had not connected his statement to that of Russ' Personally, I don't think that anyone has been terribly mean to anyone else by historic tech debate standards. I did challenge Adam on his statement and I've yet to see where he has identified the abuse being heaped on Adobe from people involved with the other engines. It seemed rather unprofessional to me but that is neither here nor there. I cannot make a comment about the OS engines cannibalizing sales or creating new cfml developers and such, I don't have the data. I can comment on my perceptions of Railo versus Adobe as a developer and have. I think that some things get rather personal rather too quickly on mailing lists and that is a shame. And I do agree with you about Adobe dropping CF if they don't make money on it, that's just a fact of business life. Thanks again, Dave. Judah On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 3:40 PM, Dave Watts dwa...@figleaf.com wrote: You have it exactly backwards, Brian. Adam accused the Open Source cfml community of being abusive toward Adobe. And I quote from Adam: The open CF side of the community couldn't be more abusive towards Adobe. It's laughable to think that the community holding the OS vendors accountable would make someone leave CF. I called Adam out on this statement and will continue to do so. The Railo and CFEclipse lists, at least, are quite far from abusive toward Adobe. I do not monitor the OpenBD lists, so perhaps there is something going on there that I am unaware of. But the accusation of abuse came from Adam, not the other way around. That's a response from Adam to a post by Russ. You may want to read that post. To save you the trouble of finding it, here's the relevant line: Attitude of the CF community (mainly caused by certain people being abusive to Railo/BD) Attitude of Adobe Now, I don't really have a dog in this fight - while I'm an Adobe partner, and resell Adobe products, I simply haven't seen any impact on that business from the open-source engines. But I haven't seen anything I'd qualify as abuse coming from either Adobe or anyone speaking on Adobe's behalf, even indirectly. It's not abuse to point out the cannibalistic effect that competing open-source engines may have on the ColdFusion market. It strikes me as kind of absurd for the people arguing in favor of these engines to say that they'll draw new developers to CF; perhaps they'll keep people on CF who would otherwise leave, but those are two different things. To me, really only one thing is certain - if ColdFusion does not continue to make money for Adobe, they'll drop it like yesterday's news. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341750 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
Judah, I'm not complaining, I'm stating the facts. I've been a CF developer since I was 18. I married a CF developer and the best man at my wedding is a CF developer. My intentions aren't to make Adobe rich, they are to ensure that the thousands of people who built their career on CFML can continue to be employed. You can choose to ignore what I'm saying, but it doesn't change the facts. -Adam On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 5:20 PM, Judah McAuley ju...@wiredotter.com wrote: You want to know why I've been moving my projects from Adobe CF to Railo, Adam? It's quite simple, really. Railo is a better product for me. I've not had a very good experience with Adobe as a cfml developer and I've had a much better experience with Railo as a cfml developer. Yes, even with a support contract with Adobe. You can complain all you want about a small faction trying to recklessly tear down the community but that's bullshit. Railo performs faster as a product and the company is more responsive to developers. That's why I use it. If you want me as a developer (and it certainly seems like you don't), now you know how to get me back. I don't have anything against Adobe as a company, I'm not an angry, ranting open source purist. I'm happy for Adobe to make money off it's products and I'm glad of the things they have already done in the open source space (like the Flex SDK). End of the day, though, I'm here to develop great applications and hopefully to enjoy the process of doing so. Make developers more productive, their applications perform faster and be responsive to their concerns and I'm sure Adobe will do wonderfully. Complaining about open source projects isn't the way to woo me though, gotta say. Judah On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 1:47 PM, Adrocknaphobia adrocknapho...@gmail.com wrote: Denny, I think you see the world as you would hope it to be, not for the reality that it is. A commendable quality, but not one Adobe can choose to share with so many CFML careers on the line. It's been 3 years since OpenBD/Railo went open source and removed the price barrier to CFML adoption. 3 years since they gave up their attempts to compete with Adobe commercially. 3 years since they proclaimed CFML is not worth paying for. At any time Adobe could have made (or will make) ColdFusion free. Problem is, cost is not the only barrier to adoption -- a reality many seem to ignore. So, 3 years later, our community for all intensive purposes seems to be shrinking (we have more CF jobs than developers). On top of losing CFML developers, we now have a large amount a fragmentation. It would seem that anything Adobe does in the CFML space is directly combated by the Open CF movement. Because of this, CFML has increasingly become more and more toxic for Adobe. I can't tell you how hard it is to fight for this community within Adobe when a small external faction is recklessly trying to tear it down. How can I ask Adobe to invest $$$ into growing the CFML developer community when our ability to get a return is dramatically reduced? The fact is, the Donna Bing's of the world (and the rest of the Open CF community) have all but written off Adobe and ColdFusion. They've decided to no longer invest any money in CFML and won't even give Adobe guidance to change. This is an honest and genuine question: Are CFML developers better off today than they were 3 years ago? At the rate of which things are progressing, will they be better off in 2014? Would they be better of w/o Adobe ColdFusion? -Adam PS. Sorry to make this all about money, but that's one of the realities we have to face about our current ecosystem. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341751 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
Sorry Medic, my brain says intents while my fingers type intensive. Spell check fails me. -Adam On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 6:23 PM, Medic hofme...@gmail.com wrote: The only abuse I've seen from Adobe http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=For%20all%20intensive%20purposes was abuse of the English language. /me runs On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 6:12 PM, Brian Kotek brian...@gmail.com wrote: What are we actually debating, again? The original issue at the root of all this was that Adobe is being abusive to the OSS engines. Highlighting the competitive advantages that Adobe feels they have over Railo or OpenBD, or the negative impact they feel it those engines have on the Adobe or CF community, is not abuse. It is exactly what competitors do. Everyone is free to agree or disagree with what Adobe is saying. But to call it abuse reveals, at best, a lack of understanding of what the word means, and at worst, an intentional misrepresentation. I keep asking for some examples of the horrible abuse that Adobe (or anyone, really) are directing at the OSS engines, but no one seems to be bothering to provide any. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341752 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
Judah, You can complain all you want about a small faction trying to recklessly tear down the community but that's bullshit. All I did was explain what's at risk for CFML developers. You didn't argue any of what I said other than to cal it bullshit. I'd say that's fairly abusive. -Adam On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 6:23 PM, Judah McAuley ju...@wiredotter.com wrote: You have it exactly backwards, Brian. Adam accused the Open Source cfml community of being abusive toward Adobe. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341753 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
Finally my trolling pays off! Yes! It's all in good fun Adrock. On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 7:12 PM, Adrocknaphobia adrocknapho...@gmail.comwrote: Sorry Medic, my brain says intents while my fingers type intensive. Spell check fails me. -Adam On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 6:23 PM, Medic hofme...@gmail.com wrote: The only abuse I've seen from Adobe http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=For%20all%20intensive%20purposes was abuse of the English language. /me runs On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 6:12 PM, Brian Kotek brian...@gmail.com wrote: What are we actually debating, again? The original issue at the root of all this was that Adobe is being abusive to the OSS engines. Highlighting the competitive advantages that Adobe feels they have over Railo or OpenBD, or the negative impact they feel it those engines have on the Adobe or CF community, is not abuse. It is exactly what competitors do. Everyone is free to agree or disagree with what Adobe is saying. But to call it abuse reveals, at best, a lack of understanding of what the word means, and at worst, an intentional misrepresentation. I keep asking for some examples of the horrible abuse that Adobe (or anyone, really) are directing at the OSS engines, but no one seems to be bothering to provide any. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341754 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 6:23 PM, Judah McAuley ju...@wiredotter.com wrote: You have it exactly backwards, Brian. Adam accused the Open Source cfml community of being abusive toward Adobe. Actually, Judah, I don't have it backwards. You do. That's why I'm pointing this out and asking if anyone knows what the point of this discussion is any longer. Adam was RESPONDING to this: On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 7:35 AM, Russ Michaels r...@michaels.me.uk wrote: Attitude of the CF community (mainly caused by certain people being abusive to Railo/BD) Attitude of Adobe ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341755 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
yes which got twisted into adobe being abusive and Russ having a dig at Adobe's attitude to the community which I immediately pointed out to Adam is not what it said. The comments about Adobe being abusive to the community came from others replies. On Tue, Feb 1, 2011 at 12:25 AM, Brian Kotek brian...@gmail.comwrousivete: On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 6:23 PM, Judah McAuley ju...@wiredotter.com wrote: You have it exactly backwards, Brian. Adam accused the Open Source cfml community of being abusive toward Adobe. Actually, Judah, I don't have it backwards. You do. That's why I'm pointing this out and asking if anyone knows what the point of this discussion is any longer. Adam was RESPONDING to this: On Thu, Jan 20, 2011 at 7:35 AM, Russ Michaels r...@michaels.me.uk wrote: Attitude of the CF community (mainly caused by certain people being abusive to Railo/BD) Attitude of Adobe ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341756 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 4:25 PM, Brian Kotek brian...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 6:23 PM, Judah McAuley ju...@wiredotter.com wrote: You have it exactly backwards, Brian. Adam accused the Open Source cfml community of being abusive toward Adobe. Actually, Judah, I don't have it backwards. You do. That's why I'm pointing this out and asking if anyone knows what the point of this discussion is any longer. Adam was RESPONDING to this: Dave pointed out Russ' comment, which I missed as it was not part of Adam's rant. Thank you for pointing it out as well. My call out of Adam still stands, however. The open source community, as far as I can tell, is not abusive of Adobe. Cheers, Judah ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341757 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
Sean, I'm confused about whether you disagree with what I've said, or are just trying to redirect the conversation away from my question. You openly admit that as Chief Technical Officer of Railo you are not paid. So what's gone wrong? Surely you should be able to turn 2,500 - 3,000 downloads a month into a healthy consulting business. Your anecdotal numbers about downloads and mailing list subscribers aren't filling CFML jobs. Are you disagreeing with my statement that the CFML market isn't big enough to share between multiple vendors? If I said that EDG was wrong and there are only 1000 ColdFusion developers in the world, would Railo stop actively marketing to ColdFusion developers? Is that all it would take? Would Railo concede that having an open source and free CFML isn't moving the needle? I stand by my original question, is the CFML developer better off today than they were 3 years ago? If you think we are in a better place, then please ignore me. Just please don't get bent out of shape when Adobe recognizes Railo/OpenBD as a direct competitor. I think Judah provided a perfect example of why that's so. -Adam On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 7:00 PM, Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.comwrote: On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 1:47 PM, Adrocknaphobia adrocknapho...@gmail.com wrote: So, 3 years later, our community for all intensive purposes seems to be shrinking (we have more CF jobs than developers). But didn't you hold up the Evans Data Corp analysis, as recently as CFUnited 2010, to show that the number of CF developers has been increasing over recent years? According to those numbers, the community doubled from 400k to 800k since the Adobe acquisition of Macromedia (and had gone from 250k to 400k in the year prior to the Adobe acquisition): http://beacon.wharton.upenn.edu/brainstorm/files/2009/06/cf_dev_pop_increase.jpg Are you now saying that the numbers have decreased since 2008 (the last year shown in that graph)? The ColdFusion Evangelist Kit (last updated March 18, 2010) on the Adobe site includes the EDC numbers and states: * 12,000+ companies (20% increase since 2007) * 778,000 developers * 1,089,000 applications * 350+ user groups * 11,000 downloads per month Those seem pretty health numbers to me - are you now saying those numbers aren't accurate? Railo's mailing list has just under 900 developers and the download statistics indicate 2,500 - 3,000 downloads a months. Unless Adobe's downloads have dropped to 8,000 downloads per month since March 18, 2010, doesn't that indicate that more people than ever are downloading a CFML engine which would mean the market is growing, not shrinking? And this doesn't include an OpenBD numbers. On top of losing CFML developers, we now have a large amount a fragmentation. What do you see as fragmentation? I see open source projects deliberately supporting all three major engines so code portability can be maintained. I see Adobe and Railo both sponsoring conferences, helping the community reach more developers. I see a lot of developers using multiple CFML engines rather than using some other technology for projects where they couldn't afford Adobe ColdFusion. Using CFML for all projects is better than using PHP for some projects, yes? It would seem that anything Adobe does in the CFML space is directly combated by the Open CF movement. I'm not quite sure what you mean by the Open CF movement nor what you think is being directly combated. Can you provide some specific examples of something Adobe has done that has been directly combated? Do you feel that JBoss or Apache Geronimo are destroying IBM (WebSphere) or Oracle (WebLogic, Oracle AS) or that the OpenJDK project is harming the proprietary JVM vendors? This is an honest and genuine question: Are CFML developers better off today than they were 3 years ago? Well, the economy has hurt a lot of people in all walks of life so that might have to be factored into any answers - but I'll be interested to see what people say about this. PS. Sorry to make this all about money, but that's one of the realities we have to face about our current ecosystem. Have you read The Cathedral and the Bazaar? Just curious. -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/ An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341758 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 4:19 PM, Adrocknaphobia adrocknapho...@gmail.com wrote: Judah, You can complain all you want about a small faction trying to recklessly tear down the community but that's bullshit. All I did was explain what's at risk for CFML developers. You didn't argue any of what I said other than to cal it bullshit. I'd say that's fairly abusive. Then you have my apologies, Adam. I find your entire behavior in this thread to be disturbing but if salty language directed at your discussion points (not at you) are deemed abusive, then I shall attempt to refrain from using such language in your direction in the future. I can now see how you feel that there has been abuse heaped on Adobe. Judah ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341759 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Adrocknaphobia adrocknapho...@gmail.com wrote: If you think we are in a better place, then please ignore me. Just please don't get bent out of shape when Adobe recognizes Railo/OpenBD as a direct competitor. I think Judah provided a perfect example of why that's so. I am a perfect example of why Railo is a competitor, yes. You also seem to fail to acknowledge any of the reasons *why* Railo is a competitor in my situation. If you want to look at the problems Adobe has, you might start there instead of complaining. Judah ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341760 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
I do not monitor the OpenBD lists, so perhaps there is something going on there that I am unaware of. Judah, I've been a subscriber to the Open BlueDragon list on Google groups since it started. I do not recall any anyone being abusive or very hostile to Adobe on it at any time. Mind you I'm the first to admit that my memory is faulty, but don't take my word for it, you can do the searches yourselves: http://groups.google.com/group/openbd/topics ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341761 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference? [spamtrap bayes][spamtrap heur]
On 1/31/2011 3:05 PM, denstar wrote: Yeah, but I worded it more to sound statistical-ish. Either way... you worded it to make it sound better and that actually doesn't make it any more factual. My overall point was that surely there's *some* non-zero number of people trying/using coldfusion that wouldn't before, if not just because of the fact that it was a closed architecture. you have no proof of that. by your logic i can equally say that having open architecture drove away as many as it attracted. a way of thinking is not facts, that's another form of woo. Why not? Surely money is a factor most places? If you gotta choose between paying a coder, and paying a license... well I guess that if a cf license is going to force a company NOT to pay salaries then that company is in deep deep shit, even in the 3rd world. I'd rather have the coder. Even if CFML gives one coder the strength of ten. =) yeah i guess if you can grab a decent coder for the price of a cf license. but that's not even remotely true. Having open source engine alternatives is more ammo for folks fighting for CFML use, hands down. ammo doesn't mean squat if it's not used to hit what you're supposed to be aiming at. How someone could see this as bad for the language, or us, as coders in said language, is beyond me. it's been explained to you over over. you even acknowledged it said you didn't care (on twitter). muckity-mucks gainfully employed. It's almost like a club or separate ecosystem. those other parts are but a cf developer there is just as important to the cf community as a cf developer in a small shop. btw i don't see *you* declaring some vow of poverty, so might as well stop with these kinds of comparisons until you do. where the Real Money is made anyways. In The Enterprise. why do you think enterprise is some kind of swear word? we built enterprise level systems for municipalities here that helped increase their tax rolls (by helping make everybody who was supposed to pay taxes, actually pay them) silly little things like track school kid vaccinations. the tax justice we helped with allowed those cities to buy more toys like fire trucks have more money to waste on things like parks youth programs. And to be clear, I'm not knocking Adobe. I'm not saying that they some of your previous remarks kind of sound like that. Well, really, it's that, when I'm like, why the hell is this doing that?, I don't have to get crazy with a decompiler (not that I'd ever or you could just ask the cf team. if you don't take advantage of it, is a wicked-cool thing to have. sure but 99.99% of developers aren't going to go that deep or need to. and from what i've seen w/other OS projects some of the stuff produced from that 0.01% shouldn't be touched w/a 10 foot pole. Would you put money on that? obviously since i'm a cf developer, i have. Or would you just live with the bugs in the version that came out in 1999, as it were? 10 years later, saying it's not dead, the last version was just perfect? what high impact bugs are in cf since 1999? So they both closed up shop, eh? I hadn't heard, but I'm not privy to insider information. they failed as businesses selling s/w. Why the venom? Even if that was the case, I'd still cheer my heart out. statements of facts are not in of themselves venomous. why fall back to that as an argument? Do you have so little faith in the language? more nonsense from you. try again. I don't. I know you say it's not true, but I haven't seen the evidence. Can you clue me in to anything solid? you acknowledged this on twitter said you didn't care. remember? Maybe it also depends on the number of servers you're running? Not-free is not-free, and at some point, enough not-free adds up to, well, a number more than zero. i have no idea of your business but developing cf has never been very costly, geez we do it here it the 3rd world just fine. hosting/deploying has some cost but so does railo/BD. servers cost money. bandwidth cost money. backups cost money. no such thing as free. Whatever you want to believe, I think it's a happier world with open source CFML engines. i would agree if they were bringing in new developers instead of munching on the cf community's liver. Have you even looked at the open source engines? They're pretty swell. yes i have indeed. so what? having money, or caring but getting bought out. as i said you already know the reasons for me having issues w/the way railo is doing things. who's going to take over if adobe buys out railo? what happens to railo's customers in practice? they just might be the ones getting stuck w/stagnant s/w. If you want to see it that way, you can. I don't, but who am I to say? a fanboy ;-) what's good for the goose is good for the gander. l think it will all work out for the best in the end (and I have proof!). no you don't.
RE: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
I officially nominate this thread as the least productive on cf-talk ever. --- Ben -Original Message- From: Judah McAuley [mailto:ju...@wiredotter.com] Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 7:58 PM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference? On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Adrocknaphobia adrocknapho...@gmail.com wrote: If you think we are in a better place, then please ignore me. Just please don't get bent out of shape when Adobe recognizes Railo/OpenBD as a direct competitor. I think Judah provided a perfect example of why that's so. I am a perfect example of why Railo is a competitor, yes. You also seem to fail to acknowledge any of the reasons *why* Railo is a competitor in my situation. If you want to look at the problems Adobe has, you might start there instead of complaining. Judah ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341763 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
I officially nominate this thread as the least productive on cf-talk ever. I'm sorry, Ben, but this one isn't even close. Are you forgetting all the why isn't CF/CFB free threads? Or the is CF dying threads? This one will need at least twenty more replies before it's even in the same category. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341764 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 4:54 PM, Adrocknaphobia adrocknapho...@gmail.com wrote: I'm confused about whether you disagree with what I've said, or are just trying to redirect the conversation away from my question. I was asking for confirmation / clarification on your position. I'll try to be more specific (below). If I said that EDG was wrong and there are only 1000 ColdFusion developers in the world Well, on one hand you're saying the CFML market is healthy and growing - and that's what the evangelist kit is meant to support - yet on the other hand you're saying that the market is shrinking - and blaming the FOSS engines. It can't be both so I'm asking you which it is? If more downloads is a measure of health then Adobe's 11k + Railo's 3k should indicate better health than just Adobe's 11k alone. If you're saying that the market is shrinking, then either downloads are no measure of health (and the 11k figure in the evangelist kit is fluff) or we would expect to see the overall downloads decrease - in which case Adobe's downloads must have dropped by over 3k a month for that to be true. Which is it? If you're claiming the community is shrinking, presumably you believe that the upward trend shown in the EDC numbers has reversed (even tho' you're still using those numbers to present an encouraging picture of the CFML community)? If the overall community is shrinking, that would have to mean that developers are leaving Adobe ColdFusion for other technologies - and doing so in large numbers, far beyond any number who might be using the FOSS engines. Let's suppose that the 900 developers on the Railo list have completely stopped using Adobe ColdFusion (they haven't - many of them use ACF for some projects and Railo for others). Out of nearly 800k developers, that would mean about 1% have adopted Railo, assuming zero growth in the community since 2008 - and for that to actually be an overall reduction in the community, Adobe must be losing developers faster than Railo is gaining them. Where are those other developers going and why? Even if you argue that Railo's download numbers indicate a faster flow of developers away from ACF to Railo, the only way the numbers support a shrinking of the overall community is if Adobe's download numbers have dropped dramatically since mid-March 2010. At 11k per month, you'd be on target to have 130k downloads a year. Railo had about 30k in the last year. Have Adobe's numbers really dropped so far that the total community downloads is shrinking? Yes, I can accept that Adobe's revenue might be impacted by competing tools, but I don't really buy the shrinking community argument and I certainly don't buy that competition within a community causes that community to shrink. If it really is shrinking, it's doing so for other reasons. Is the graphics / photography market shrinking because PhotoShop has competitors (both commercial and FOSS)? Hopefully that's less confusing? I stand by my original question, is the CFML developer better off today than they were 3 years ago? OK, I'll answer: yes, allowing for the overall impact of the economy, I do think the average CFML developer is better off today than in early 2008. I believe the trend shown in the EDC numbers has continued (although I think the economy has slowed growth of the CFML community somewhat). I believe developers are able to use CFML on projects where they had to use other technologies before. I believe that where some developers would have been forced to migrate to other technologies - for a variety of reasons - they now have a viable option to remain CFML developers and to stay within the ecosystem that surrounds the various CFML engines and tools. I think CF9 was a great release (as was CF8) and I think the teasers about CFX indicate even bigger / better things are in store for CFML developers. We have a great dedicated IDE in CFBuilder with solid plans for versions 2.0 and 3.0. To me, that all adds up to a very positive environment for our community. Just please don't get bent out of shape when Adobe recognizes Railo/OpenBD as a direct competitor. I have no problem with Adobe and Railo and OpenBD being considered competitors. Most people consider competition to be healthy in a free market economy. -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/ An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341765 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
Good point, I guess I blocked those from my memory. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to ignore this pointless banter up for a few more days before the thread makes it to the CF-Talk Rogues Gallery. --- Ben -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwa...@figleaf.com] Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 8:58 PM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference? I officially nominate this thread as the least productive on cf-talk ever. I'm sorry, Ben, but this one isn't even close. Are you forgetting all the why isn't CF/CFB free threads? Or the is CF dying threads? This one will need at least twenty more replies before it's even in the same category. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341766 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
Wait, is CF dying? andy -Original Message- From: Ben Forta [mailto:b...@forta.com] Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 8:15 PM To: cf-talk Subject: RE: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference? Good point, I guess I blocked those from my memory. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to ignore this pointless banter up for a few more days before the thread makes it to the CF-Talk Rogues Gallery. --- Ben -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwa...@figleaf.com] Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 8:58 PM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference? I officially nominate this thread as the least productive on cf-talk ever. I'm sorry, Ben, but this one isn't even close. Are you forgetting all the why isn't CF/CFB free threads? Or the is CF dying threads? This one will need at least twenty more replies before it's even in the same category. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341767 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
Rather than ignore it... is it worth trying to steer in a more productive direction? Can it be a productive discussion? I've gone on record before as saying I don't think the existence of the alternate engines spells the doom of Adobe ColdFusion. I may be wrong, but lord I hope not. Adobe ColdFusion has been -very- good to me over the past 15 years, not just professionally, but personally. Many of the people that I consider my best friends are friends that I've made in the CF community. So I've got both a personal and professional interest in this, and it's a subject that I care about quite a bit. If it can't be done here... so be it. Just seems that we have representation from all sides, and nobody seems to be too shy about sharing how they feel. All we need to do is steer the discussion in a direction where it's more productive and constructive. Assuming that direction... y'know... exists. On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 7:14 PM, Ben Forta b...@forta.com wrote: Good point, I guess I blocked those from my memory. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to ignore this pointless banter up for a few more days before the thread makes it to the CF-Talk Rogues Gallery. --- Ben -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwa...@figleaf.com] Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 8:58 PM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference? I officially nominate this thread as the least productive on cf-talk ever. I'm sorry, Ben, but this one isn't even close. Are you forgetting all the why isn't CF/CFB free threads? Or the is CF dying threads? This one will need at least twenty more replies before it's even in the same category. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341768 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
Wow, Adobe is getting all bent out of shape because people are realising that Railo updates their engine more frequently. And can be rest assured that they aren't waiting for 2-3 years before a problem is fixed. Seems like Adobe should be looking into what's wrong in their own backyard before throwing sticks. Regards, Andrew Scott http://www.andyscott.id.au/ -Original Message- From: Adrocknaphobia [mailto:adrocknapho...@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, 1 February 2011 11:54 AM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference? If you think we are in a better place, then please ignore me. Just please don't get bent out of shape when Adobe recognizes Railo/OpenBD as a direct competitor. I think Judah provided a perfect example of why that's so. -Adam ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341769 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
On 01/31/2011 06:27 PM, Charlie Griefer wrote: Rather than ignore it... is it worth trying to steer in a more productive direction? Can it be a productive discussion? Agreed. Maybe we could address the other barriers to adoption that exist now besides cost? -Jordan ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341770 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
You forgot the link: http://instantrimshot.com/ http://instantrimshot.com/This thread reminds me of the movie Inception. Multiple layers and some confused people. I think Donna fell into limbo. It started out ok. -Mike Chabot On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 9:24 PM, andy matthews li...@commadelimited.comwrote: Wait, is CF dying? andy -Original Message- From: Ben Forta [mailto:b...@forta.com] Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 8:15 PM To: cf-talk Subject: RE: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference? Good point, I guess I blocked those from my memory. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to ignore this pointless banter up for a few more days before the thread makes it to the CF-Talk Rogues Gallery. --- Ben -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwa...@figleaf.com] Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 8:58 PM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference? I officially nominate this thread as the least productive on cf-talk ever. I'm sorry, Ben, but this one isn't even close. Are you forgetting all the why isn't CF/CFB free threads? Or the is CF dying threads? This one will need at least twenty more replies before it's even in the same category. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341771 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
Charlie, I'd love to have a productive discussion on this subject. And yes, I have opinions on this one, I've shared them before and am happy to do so again. And no, as much as I admire Adam's passion for ColdFusion (it's why I nudged him into the role), I don't fully agree with his take on things. But regardless, I don't think this thread can be steered anywhere. When conversations denigrate to emotional rants and accusations and unsubstantiated sweeping generalizations, that's when I back away. --- Ben -Original Message- From: Charlie Griefer [mailto:charlie.grie...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 9:28 PM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference? Rather than ignore it... is it worth trying to steer in a more productive direction? Can it be a productive discussion? I've gone on record before as saying I don't think the existence of the alternate engines spells the doom of Adobe ColdFusion. I may be wrong, but lord I hope not. Adobe ColdFusion has been -very- good to me over the past 15 years, not just professionally, but personally. Many of the people that I consider my best friends are friends that I've made in the CF community. So I've got both a personal and professional interest in this, and it's a subject that I care about quite a bit. If it can't be done here... so be it. Just seems that we have representation from all sides, and nobody seems to be too shy about sharing how they feel. All we need to do is steer the discussion in a direction where it's more productive and constructive. Assuming that direction... y'know... exists. On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 7:14 PM, Ben Forta b...@forta.com wrote: Good point, I guess I blocked those from my memory. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to ignore this pointless banter up for a few more days before the thread makes it to the CF-Talk Rogues Gallery. --- Ben -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwa...@figleaf.com] Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 8:58 PM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference? I officially nominate this thread as the least productive on cf-talk ever. I'm sorry, Ben, but this one isn't even close. Are you forgetting all the why isn't CF/CFB free threads? Or the is CF dying threads? This one will need at least twenty more replies before it's even in the same category. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341772 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
Wow, Adobe is getting all bent out of shape because people are realising that Railo updates their engine more frequently. And can be rest assured that they aren't waiting for 2-3 years before a problem is fixed. Seems like Adobe should be looking into what's wrong in their own backyard before throwing sticks. I wonder what kind of regression testing Railo does before releasing an update? That's not intended as a dig, but there are differences between expectations for open-source software and commercial software, between large vendors and small, etc. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341773 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
When conversations denigrate to emotional rants and accusations and unsubstantiated sweeping generalizations, that's when I back away. You're no fun any more. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341774 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
Hi Adam! I dream reality. We all do. Our perception of it is as powerful as whatever it, in fact, is. :) I proclaim CFML is worth sharing!. What you see as fragmentation, I see as coalescentation. What you see as an attempt to tear down, I see as an attempt to build up. We'll have to put all our data together now, to see the numbers, I reckon. Working in a big corporation can suck. I hate all the politics and whatnot that seems to come with the territory. Having to *repeatedly* show folks what is quite obviously good logic, instead of them just getting it the first time. I honestly think that the open source engines can be leveraged to make more money for Adobe than Adobe would have made otherwise, and in turn, make more money for CFML devs that we would have made otherwise. I don't want to see tons of jobs with low wages-- nobody at our diner because there's too many people there, so to speak-- but I wouldn't mind seeing CFML be a bit more visible. It's probably gonna happen just because of evolution. Our language is swell, and keeps getting sweller. It's got that je ne sais quoi. The free that comes with open source is not the kind of free that most people attribute to it. There's nothing wrong with making money, or making various corporations money. Frankly, it seems the most successful open source projects currently have some type of corporate partnership. I think that's evolved, because it makes money. It's easier to have sorta separate entities than to wrap your head around what open source is really all about. But that's just speculation. What I'm trying to get at, and probably achieving poorly, is the idea that it's not an either/or proposition. There's space for both, and indeed, together more can be achieved than separate. At least that's the way it looks. I could be seeing things incorrectly though. Or processing them wrong. It seems logical though. =) The software landscape seems to be changing. It took a while, but you can't deny that Open Source is playing a major role now, when years and years ago so many people proclaimed it couldn't work, even when faced with the data which made the extrapolation pretty straightforward. People need money to eat, and drink, and be merry. Sadly, currency is not going to go away anytime soon, even though we should just skip the middle man and trade in time. Is your time worth my time? Or something like that. Haven't quite worked that bit out, but what I'm saying is there's plenty of loot out there to be had. I guess I'm a poor example, loot-wise, but that's my bad. :) I genuinely feel that CFML developers are much better off today than they were 3 years ago. And 3 years before that. And 3 years before... money-wise, I miss the dot com bubble, even though I never took advantage of it myself, but code-wise, it's all positive feelings. The language continues get more fantastic, which is fabulous, we've got that $$ option for people with $$, and the open source element which seems so hip these days. We're covered. I think the work Adobe your team has done on CFB is awesome. There're not many people who know just how hard developing an IDE for our lovely language can be (even when standing on the shoulders of giants), but I'm one. Kudos, to your team for making it happen, and to Adobe for making it possible. I think that the power lies in our hands. Adobe is in a place plenty of other corps wish they were in. The positioning is swell... it's their game to throw. Played right, the future's bright. But I guess if I knew all that and a bag of chips, I'd be rolling in the dough, so... eh. I keep meaning to make money a priority... =) :Den -- It is a mania shared by philosophers of all ages to deny what exists and to explain what does not exist. Jean-Jacques Rousseau On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 2:47 PM, Adrocknaphobia wrote: Denny, I think you see the world as you would hope it to be, not for the reality that it is. A commendable quality, but not one Adobe can choose to share with so many CFML careers on the line. It's been 3 years since OpenBD/Railo went open source and removed the price barrier to CFML adoption. 3 years since they gave up their attempts to compete with Adobe commercially. 3 years since they proclaimed CFML is not worth paying for. At any time Adobe could have made (or will make) ColdFusion free. Problem is, cost is not the only barrier to adoption -- a reality many seem to ignore. So, 3 years later, our community for all intensive purposes seems to be shrinking (we have more CF jobs than developers). On top of losing CFML developers, we now have a large amount a fragmentation. It would seem that anything Adobe does in the CFML space is directly combated by the Open CF movement. Because of this, CFML has increasingly become more and more toxic for Adobe. I can't tell you how hard it is to fight for this community within Adobe when a small external faction is recklessly trying to
RE: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
Good question Dave, but I have cases where Adobe hasn't done any regression testing as well. Especially when it came to the addition of adding the new ExtJS stuff, and how much backward compatibility went out the window. One should not have to spend 3 months rewriting parts of an Application because of new bugs introduced into ColdFusion either, and be told we are not going to fix it either which forced us to do the rewrite and remove the dependency on ColdFusion. Regards, Andrew Scott http://www.andyscott.id.au/ -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwa...@figleaf.com] Sent: Tuesday, 1 February 2011 1:48 PM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference? I wonder what kind of regression testing Railo does before releasing an update? That's not intended as a dig, but there are differences between expectations for open-source software and commercial software, between large vendors and small, etc. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341776 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 4:40 PM, Dave Watts wrote: ... Now, I don't really have a dog in this fight - while I'm an Adobe partner, and resell Adobe products, I simply haven't seen any impact on that business from the open-source engines. But I haven't seen anything I'd qualify as abuse coming from either Adobe or anyone speaking on Adobe's behalf, even indirectly. It's not abuse to point out the cannibalistic effect that competing open-source engines may have on the ColdFusion market. It strikes me as kind of absurd for the people arguing in favor of these engines to say that they'll draw new developers to CF; perhaps they'll keep people on CF who would otherwise leave, but those are two different things. To me, really only one thing is certain - if ColdFusion does not continue to make money for Adobe, they'll drop it like yesterday's news. My kind of dog fight involves air planes. :) Cannibalistic sounds rather grim, but I guess grim is pretty hot these days. Like Open Source-- The kids love it, and the girls go wild for it. Patience doesn't seem to be a very popular virtue. It's a shame, but it's natural. Why do you think it's absurd to think that open source engines will bring more people? Do you think the only thing that makes a language worth something, is how much it costs? What about my argument about one in the bush, vs. none in the bush? Is that illogical? Different, sure, but... everything's different, relatively generally speakingly. And say Adobe did drop CF-- do you think that would spell the end of the language? I don't consider myself outgoing, but I end up in various circles, and pay a bit of attention... and the various circles, to me, seem to be pointing at Adobe hanging with CFML to be a good idea. Because, obviously, I don't think it will go away if they drop it. On the contrary, I think they're in a good position to maybe, just maybe, keep up with the evolution of the software industry. At least as far as CFML is concerned, but take a look at the landscape here- the writing is on the wall. There's a battle going on, re public/private, open/closed, but it's not about the existence of one or the other anymore-- it's about balance. Adobe knows this. They haven't been contributing AIR stuff to open source projects just to get warm fuzzies. Bah. I love to talk and talk. Who really knows WTF is going on. Not I, surely... but at least I didn't say mindshare. =) FWIW, Railo follows the general theme of software development. The stable version gets more testing than the beta, which gets more testing than the alpha, etc.. Bugs are part of the game. Even Apple products fail sometimes, though they do a pretty good job of downplaying it, IMHO. Amazing; the power of perception! /me looks amazed, emphasistically :Den -- Man is born free and everywhere he is in chains. Jean-Jacques Rousseau ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341777 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
Ben - if you think there's a venue in which the discussion *could* be had productively, I'd love to be a part of it, or at the very least, do whatever I could to help make it happen. Just say the word. On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 7:46 PM, Ben Forta b...@forta.com wrote: Charlie, I'd love to have a productive discussion on this subject. And yes, I have opinions on this one, I've shared them before and am happy to do so again. And no, as much as I admire Adam's passion for ColdFusion (it's why I nudged him into the role), I don't fully agree with his take on things. But regardless, I don't think this thread can be steered anywhere. When conversations denigrate to emotional rants and accusations and unsubstantiated sweeping generalizations, that's when I back away. --- Ben -Original Message- From: Charlie Griefer [mailto:charlie.grie...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 9:28 PM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference? Rather than ignore it... is it worth trying to steer in a more productive direction? Can it be a productive discussion? I've gone on record before as saying I don't think the existence of the alternate engines spells the doom of Adobe ColdFusion. I may be wrong, but lord I hope not. Adobe ColdFusion has been -very- good to me over the past 15 years, not just professionally, but personally. Many of the people that I consider my best friends are friends that I've made in the CF community. So I've got both a personal and professional interest in this, and it's a subject that I care about quite a bit. If it can't be done here... so be it. Just seems that we have representation from all sides, and nobody seems to be too shy about sharing how they feel. All we need to do is steer the discussion in a direction where it's more productive and constructive. Assuming that direction... y'know... exists. On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 7:14 PM, Ben Forta b...@forta.com wrote: Good point, I guess I blocked those from my memory. Oh well, I guess I'll just have to ignore this pointless banter up for a few more days before the thread makes it to the CF-Talk Rogues Gallery. --- Ben -Original Message- From: Dave Watts [mailto:dwa...@figleaf.com] Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 8:58 PM To: cf-talk Subject: Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference? I officially nominate this thread as the least productive on cf-talk ever. I'm sorry, Ben, but this one isn't even close. Are you forgetting all the why isn't CF/CFB free threads? Or the is CF dying threads? This one will need at least twenty more replies before it's even in the same category. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341778 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
Why do you think it's absurd to think that open source engines will bring more people? Because it doesn't seem to have done so, so far. Because the niche in which CF is popular doesn't seem to care that much about open source or free. Because there are plenty of other open source engines in other languages, and people who care a lot about that seem to have mostly already moved to one of those. Do you think the only thing that makes a language worth something, is how much it costs? No. I'm not sure where you got that from my previous responses. What about my argument about one in the bush, vs. none in the bush? That's not an argument, it's speculation. And say Adobe did drop CF-- do you think that would spell the end of the language? Yeah, I do. I don't think that everyone would switch to comparatively unknown, new alternatives. If a big company like Adobe can't guarantee the future of CF, why would anyone think that these other people can? Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsite. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341779 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference? [spamtrap bayes][spamtrap heur]
First off, this portion of the discussion probably belongs on cf-community. There is a whole 'nother portion that I, like Charlie, think should be discussed technically (or constructively). I applaud the folks doing so. On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 6:27 PM, Paul Hastings wrote: On 1/31/2011 3:05 PM, denstar wrote: ... My overall point was that surely there's *some* non-zero number of people trying/using coldfusion that wouldn't before, if not just because of the fact that it was a closed architecture. you have no proof of that. by your logic i can equally say that having open architecture drove away as many as it attracted. a way of thinking is not facts, that's another form of woo. All I have is educated guesses. Does it seem more logical to you that folks would abandon a good language because there was an open source variant? ... I'd rather have the coder. Even if CFML gives one coder the strength of ten. =) yeah i guess if you can grab a decent coder for the price of a cf license. but that's not even remotely true. And that's not what I said. If I'm incorrect, at least let me be incorrect about what I was talking about. :) Having open source engine alternatives is more ammo for folks fighting for CFML use, hands down. ammo doesn't mean squat if it's not used to hit what you're supposed to be aiming at. The public numbers I've seen look good. You keep telling me about how you're on the inside, and what I see in not the reality, but all I have is your word. Or woo, if you prefer. :) And it only seems to be focused more on Adobe than CFML. Are we talking about different things? How someone could see this as bad for the language, or us, as coders in said language, is beyond me. it's been explained to you over over. you even acknowledged it said you didn't care (on twitter). Ugh. :) You said something that sounded like hearsay, and I said even it it were true, I felt that open source alternatives were good for the language. muckity-mucks gainfully employed. It's almost like a club or separate ecosystem. those other parts are but a cf developer there is just as important to the cf community as a cf developer in a small shop. btw i don't see *you* declaring some vow of poverty, so might as well stop with these kinds of comparisons until you do. Heh. I guess if I lied and called it intentional... ;) where the Real Money is made anyways. In The Enterprise. why do you think enterprise is some kind of swear word? we built enterprise level systems for municipalities here that helped increase their tax rolls (by helping make everybody who was supposed to pay taxes, actually pay them) silly little things like track school kid vaccinations. the tax justice we helped with allowed those cities to buy more toys like fire trucks have more money to waste on things like parks youth programs. Not at all. Didn't you watch that South Park episode? Enterprise ain't evil. Hell, it's the name of a mighty fine starship. And to be clear, I'm not knocking Adobe. I'm not saying that they some of your previous remarks kind of sound like that. You can be pro X without implying anti Y. I can't control how you see what I type, but I've tried to type stuff that's pro-CFML, regardless of who's behind it, and emotion, belief, etc.. ... sure but 99.99% of developers aren't going to go that deep or need to. and from what i've seen w/other OS projects some of the stuff produced from that 0.01% shouldn't be touched w/a 10 foot pole. You think some of that can be bad, you should see my closed-source stuff. =) ... Why the venom? Even if that was the case, I'd still cheer my heart out. statements of facts are not in of themselves venomous. why fall back to that as an argument? I wasn't arguing, I was hinting that we don't *really* need to be angry in our conversation. Do you have so little faith in the language? more nonsense from you. try again. I worded it harshly, but I really don't understand the idea that good ideas need huge corporations behind them to be successful in the ways that matter. I don't. I know you say it's not true, but I haven't seen the evidence. Can you clue me in to anything solid? you acknowledged this on twitter said you didn't care. remember? I remember saying that even if what you said you'd heard through the back channels was true, I would still be happy we ended up with an open source engine out of the deal. That does not make what you said you heard true and non-woo. Do you have any data? I asked on twitter too. ... Whatever you want to believe, I think it's a happier world with open source CFML engines. i would agree if they were bringing in new developers instead of munching on the cf community's liver. Do you have some kind of numbers to back up this claim that open source engines *aren't* bringing new people into the fold? Looking at mailing list traffic, and other non-direct
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 6:47 PM, Dave Watts dwa...@figleaf.com wrote: I wonder what kind of regression testing Railo does before releasing an update? That's not intended as a dig, but there are differences between expectations for open-source software and commercial software, between large vendors and small, etc. A perfectly reasonable question. Railo has three update providers: * Bleeding Edge / Development * Preview * Stable For the Stable provider, every test engineering has is run and must pass. Since every JIRA ticket creates at least one new test, that body of tests is constantly increasing. This is recommended for production servers. For the Preview provider, consider that equivalent to 'beta' versions that have had manual testing on bug fixes or small changes to the stable version and may have had limited regression testing but haven't been run thru the full suite. This is recommended for users comfortable with testing bug fixes to verify that a reported fix is indeed correct. The BER provider is for early 'alpha' or even 'pre-alpha' testing of new features and has had only limited testing. For example, this provider currently offers early builds of the next point release of Railo - 3.3 - and partial features are made available here so users can provide early feedback and help shape them as they evolve. Once 3.3 hits release candidate state, builds will be offered on the Preview provider in preparation for it becoming the next Stable version, at which point BER will switch to early builds of 4.0. There's actually another level, not offered thru a provider, and that's Build from source for the more adventurous souls - and folks who want to dig deep into features (or bugs) and offer their own patches. I hope that answers your question. Let me know if you'd like more detail. -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/ An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive. -- Margaret Atwood ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341781 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference?
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 9:38 PM, Dave Watts wrote: Why do you think it's absurd to think that open source engines will bring more people? Because it doesn't seem to have done so, so far. Because the niche in which CF is popular doesn't seem to care that much about open source or free. Because there are plenty of other open source engines in other languages, and people who care a lot about that seem to have mostly already moved to one of those. There must be a lot of hard data out there that I'm not privy to. :) As far as the niche, /things are changing/. Not that they're not constantly changing, but you have to see what I'm talking about. Open source software is not going to go away. Or maybe it will. Hell, who really knows what the future will bring? It /seems/ to be making more and more inroads, even though for years people predicted it wouldn't, and indeed, couldn't. Maybe it's all smoke and mirrors? It doesn't look that way to me, but I also think that we really *did* go to the moon. I'm not infallible. Those other open source engines aren't CFML. I believe there is a difference. But I'm a CFML fanboi. :) Do you think the only thing that makes a language worth something, is how much it costs? No. I'm not sure where you got that from my previous responses. The bit about it being absurd to think that open source might affect adoption. I What about my argument about one in the bush, vs. none in the bush? That's not an argument, it's speculation. It's not speculation, it's probability. One is more probable than the other. Anything is possible though, so... maybe it is speculation? And say Adobe did drop CF-- do you think that would spell the end of the language? Yeah, I do. I don't think that everyone would switch to comparatively unknown, new alternatives. If a big company like Adobe can't guarantee the future of CF, why would anyone think that these other people can? Because they have the right ingredients? Big companies fuck up all the time. I still don't get this magical power attributed to 'em. Success isn't about the size of the boat, it's about the motion of the ocean. Or something of similar sentiment. :)p :Den -- No man has any natural authority over his fellow men. Jean-Jacques Rousseau ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341782 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Anyone know anything about this new ColdFusion conference? [spamtrap bayes][spamtrap heur]
On 2/1/2011 12:46 PM, denstar wrote: First off, this portion of the discussion probably belongs on cf-community. then move it there. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:341783 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Is the Atlanta ColdFusion users group still active?
Hi all, I was just wondering if the Atlanta CF Users Group was still active. I still see the site up but no monthly meeting scheduled. Thanks in advance for any help! MIke ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/message.cfm/messageid:4419 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-jobs-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
