Re: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
When I built my system I gave this a lot of thought. Here are the features that I've built that I think are important for such a system: The DP Libraries system focuses on three fundamental aspects of a user in a security context: 1) Credential: This is the information the user needs to log in. Username/password for example. 2) Entitlements: This is the information about what the user is able to do based on their credentials. This may include roles (like editor, Admin, etc) or tasks (like Add User, Delete Article) or a combination of both. 3) Profile: This is non-security related information about the user. Name, phone number, address, etc. Each of these three concepts is represented by a CFC in the system. Although the system comes with these it allows you to replace any of them with one of your own. For example if the provided Entitlement CFC doesn't represent what you need you can build your own (or extend the provided one) and use that very easily. These are then managed by collection CFCs called mediators - any request for this information comes through the mediator (so that any updates are immediately reflected in the system - none of this changes will take affect next login BS). The system runs as a service - you start it up (it can live in either the Application or Server scopes) and access it's services, but it provides no interface, no standard look, etc. The system provides all persistence access via defined broker components (DAO CFCs). Providing support for a different persistence entity means writing a new set of brokers - no changes to the core system are required at all. (You might have a set of brokers which interact with Active Directory or another that work with LDAP or any kind of database or flat file - the system doesn't care as long as the brokers return the date in the format expected). The system provides support for common security measures like three strikes and your out login management and can enforce one active login per credential easily. All told I'm very proud of it. ;^) When it still needs is lots of documentation. It also doesn't (yet) have many methods to manage user communities (you can do some things, but not others). But all of the basic infrastructure is there and open source - feel free to borrow or steal from it. Jim Davis This sounds very similar to my login framework I built a while back for all of my websites that is included in COAL as the glogin service, but it isnt quite as intricate as what you are talking about. It is a simple component that has a dao, it handles login, logout, roles (like your entitlements) and other information about the user. Basically whenever a new session is started it instantiates a new object in the session scope and as they log in it updates the object. It doesn't handle user management, I take care of that with a different set of components because I wanted this to be as lightweight as possible, but It would be pretty easy to create a login gateway that creates and hands off the session.login object as well as provides all of the user management needs. Ill definately take a look at what you have got (as soon as I get the chance :S) and see if we can develop something similar. Feel free to email me off list if you want to talk about it some more as well. thanks! -- Ryan Guill BlueEyesDevelopment [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ryanguill.com (270) 217.2399 The Coldfusion Open Application Library - COAL - http://coal.ryanguill.com www.ryanguill.com/ The Roman Empire: www.ryanguill.com/blog/ ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:217321 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
These are then managed by collection CFCs called mediators - any request for this information comes through the mediator (so that any updates are immediately reflected in the system - none of this changes will take affect next login BS). Members onTap does that too, although it's compatible with CF5 ... All role and permission data is stored in the application scope, so that if you modify a user's roles they're effective on the next request containing their memberid in the session. s. isaac dealey 954.522.6080 new epoch : isn't it time for a change? add features without fixtures with the onTap open source framework http://www.fusiontap.com http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/author/4806Dealey.htm ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:217322 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
-Original Message- From: S. Isaac Dealey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2005 11:57 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library These are then managed by collection CFCs called mediators - any request for this information comes through the mediator (so that any updates are immediately reflected in the system - none of this changes will take affect next login BS). Members onTap does that too, although it's compatible with CF5 ... All role and permission data is stored in the application scope, so that if you modify a user's roles they're effective on the next request containing their memberid in the session. 'Xactly - to me that's a fundamental requirement of any security system. When I say no I mean NO NOW. ;^) Jim Davis ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:217323 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
-Original Message- From: Ryan Guill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 6:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library Hey guys, sorry to keep resurecting this thread, but wanted some input. I have had a lot of people that are still unsure of the concept of COAL and so I would like to develop a useful service for COAL and then I can do a tutorial or article explaining how this will help developers. So my question is, what is something that many of us developers do every day or every project. The possibilities are endless really, I can think of a many, but I want to see what you guys come up with to see if there are any trends. Something that can be useful immediately would be a better benefit to the community. The main for me is a security system... everything wants to be locked down. (This was the first real application available in the DP Libraries.) Jim Davis ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:217196 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
-Original Message- From: Ryan Guill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 6:19 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library Hey guys, sorry to keep resurecting this thread, but wanted some input. I have had a lot of people that are still unsure of the concept of COAL and so I would like to develop a useful service for COAL and then I can do a tutorial or article explaining how this will help developers. So my question is, what is something that many of us developers do every day or every project. The possibilities are endless really, I can think of a many, but I want to see what you guys come up with to see if there are any trends. Something that can be useful immediately would be a better benefit to the community. The main for me is a security system... everything wants to be locked down. (This was the first real application available in the DP Libraries.) It's a good suggestion... I think it's one of the first considerations with any new framework... I know that I've heard of at least 2 security systems / plugins designed for FuseBox 3 and 4... I've probably heard of more than that, but I can think of 2 for certain off the top of my head. I expect similar in the Mach-II and Model-Glue communities (although I've had less exposure to them). The Members onTap plugin was the first project for the framework, and I remember having a conversation with one of the authors of something called iiFramework in which he seemed surprised that it was even a separate application (from the core framework). Apparently iiFramework included member management security as part of the core framework components -- and I expect that's probably also true of PLUM. So I think that reasoanbly establishes the utility / demand for a security component(s)/service(s). s. isaac dealey 954.522.6080 new epoch : isn't it time for a change? add features without fixtures with the onTap open source framework http://www.fusiontap.com http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/author/4806Dealey.htm ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:217210 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
Alright, sounds good. So what type of security are we talking about? Things like authentication and login models? Or are we talking more like encryption? Sorry, but I havent really had a chance to check out those libraries yet. -- Ryan Guill BlueEyesDevelopment [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ryanguill.com (270) 217.2399 The Coldfusion Open Application Library - COAL - http://coal.ryanguill.com www.ryanguill.com/ The Roman Empire: www.ryanguill.com/blog/ ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:217215 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
Alright, sounds good. So what type of security are we talking about? Things like authentication and login models? Or are we talking more like encryption? Sorry, but I havent really had a chance to check out those libraries yet. login model / user authentication -- roles and permissions would be what I would focus on... I don't think encryption is nearly as hot an issue, although yes, some folks use it. s. isaac dealey 954.522.6080 new epoch : isn't it time for a change? add features without fixtures with the onTap open source framework http://www.fusiontap.com http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/author/4806Dealey.htm ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:217231 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
Sorry, but I havent really had a chance to check out those libraries yet. Was this comment specifically about my framework? If so don't sweat it. Everybody's busy, I understand. :) s. isaac dealey 954.522.6080 new epoch : isn't it time for a change? add features without fixtures with the onTap open source framework http://www.fusiontap.com http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/author/4806Dealey.htm ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:217273 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
-Original Message- From: Ryan Guill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 11:11 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library Alright, sounds good. So what type of security are we talking about? Things like authentication and login models? Or are we talking more like encryption? Sorry, but I havent really had a chance to check out those libraries yet. When I built my system I gave this a lot of thought. Here are the features that I've built that I think are important for such a system: The DP Libraries system focuses on three fundamental aspects of a user in a security context: 1) Credential: This is the information the user needs to log in. Username/password for example. 2) Entitlements: This is the information about what the user is able to do based on their credentials. This may include roles (like editor, Admin, etc) or tasks (like Add User, Delete Article) or a combination of both. 3) Profile: This is non-security related information about the user. Name, phone number, address, etc. Each of these three concepts is represented by a CFC in the system. Although the system comes with these it allows you to replace any of them with one of your own. For example if the provided Entitlement CFC doesn't represent what you need you can build your own (or extend the provided one) and use that very easily. These are then managed by collection CFCs called mediators - any request for this information comes through the mediator (so that any updates are immediately reflected in the system - none of this changes will take affect next login BS). The system runs as a service - you start it up (it can live in either the Application or Server scopes) and access it's services, but it provides no interface, no standard look, etc. The system provides all persistence access via defined broker components (DAO CFCs). Providing support for a different persistence entity means writing a new set of brokers - no changes to the core system are required at all. (You might have a set of brokers which interact with Active Directory or another that work with LDAP or any kind of database or flat file - the system doesn't care as long as the brokers return the date in the format expected). The system provides support for common security measures like three strikes and your out login management and can enforce one active login per credential easily. All told I'm very proud of it. ;^) When it still needs is lots of documentation. It also doesn't (yet) have many methods to manage user communities (you can do some things, but not others). But all of the basic infrastructure is there and open source - feel free to borrow or steal from it. Jim Davis ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:217274 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
Hey guys, sorry to keep resurecting this thread, but wanted some input. I have had a lot of people that are still unsure of the concept of COAL and so I would like to develop a useful service for COAL and then I can do a tutorial or article explaining how this will help developers. So my question is, what is something that many of us developers do every day or every project. The possibilities are endless really, I can think of a many, but I want to see what you guys come up with to see if there are any trends. Something that can be useful immediately would be a better benefit to the community. Thanks, On 8/30/05, Ryan Guill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well guys I wanted to take a chance now that the thread has started to die down a little to thank you for your support and interest so far. Please continue to ask any questions you may have. If you are interested in helping with the project, let me encourage you to sign up for the google group for COAL. You can do this from the COAL homepage at http://coal.ryanguill.com. Thanks again, and hope to be turning out a great asset to you guys soon! -- Ryan Guill BlueEyesDevelopment [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ryanguill.com (270) 217.2399 The Coldfusion Open Application Library - COAL - http://coal.ryanguill.com www.ryanguill.com/ The Roman Empire: www.ryanguill.com/blog/ -- Ryan Guill BlueEyesDevelopment [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ryanguill.com (270) 217.2399 The Coldfusion Open Application Library - COAL - http://coal.ryanguill.com www.ryanguill.com/ The Roman Empire: www.ryanguill.com/blog/ ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:217165 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
i make admins to manage database tables. (add, update, delete functionality) tw On 9/1/05, Ryan Guill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey guys, sorry to keep resurecting this thread, but wanted some input. I have had a lot of people that are still unsure of the concept of COAL and so I would like to develop a useful service for COAL and then I can do a tutorial or article explaining how this will help developers. So my question is, what is something that many of us developers do every day or every project. The possibilities are endless really, I can think of a many, but I want to see what you guys come up with to see if there are any trends. Something that can be useful immediately would be a better benefit to the community. Thanks, On 8/30/05, Ryan Guill [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well guys I wanted to take a chance now that the thread has started to die down a little to thank you for your support and interest so far. Please continue to ask any questions you may have. If you are interested in helping with the project, let me encourage you to sign up for the google group for COAL. You can do this from the COAL homepage at http://coal.ryanguill.com. Thanks again, and hope to be turning out a great asset to you guys soon! -- Ryan Guill BlueEyesDevelopment [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ryanguill.com (270) 217.2399 The Coldfusion Open Application Library - COAL - http://coal.ryanguill.com www.ryanguill.com/ The Roman Empire: www.ryanguill.com/blog/ -- Ryan Guill BlueEyesDevelopment [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ryanguill.com (270) 217.2399 The Coldfusion Open Application Library - COAL - http://coal.ryanguill.com www.ryanguill.com/ The Roman Empire: www.ryanguill.com/blog/ ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:217182 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
Well guys I wanted to take a chance now that the thread has started to die down a little to thank you for your support and interest so far. Please continue to ask any questions you may have. If you are interested in helping with the project, let me encourage you to sign up for the google group for COAL. You can do this from the COAL homepage at http://coal.ryanguill.com. Thanks again, and hope to be turning out a great asset to you guys soon! -- Ryan Guill BlueEyesDevelopment [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ryanguill.com (270) 217.2399 The Coldfusion Open Application Library - COAL - http://coal.ryanguill.com www.ryanguill.com/ The Roman Empire: www.ryanguill.com/blog/ ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:216818 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
I think your reinventing the wheel here. There is already the macromedia developers exchange, and cflib.org to name but two free repository of reusable coldfusion code. Snake -Original Message- From: Ryan Guill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 28 August 2005 18:56 To: CF-Talk Subject: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library Hi, My name is Ryan Guill and I am developing an open-source framework for ColdFusion called COAL, which stands for the ColdFusion Open Application Library. It is intended to be similar to PHP's PEAR or PERL's CPAN libraries, although there are several differences. The basic idea is to create a free repository of reusable and flexible components for use as services and objects. Its purpose is to allow ColdFusion developers to develop their applications quicker and easier, reducing the time to market. It's a way to standardize the components as well and provide documentation for them, so that if anyone is having trouble with a COAL component, any other developer using COAL will instantly be on the same page. This project is just getting started, although a lot of work and effort has been invested already. But the project cannot continue without some help and support from the community. So here is my plea for help. What COAL currently needs is three things. We need ColdFusion developers coming up with ideas for components to include in COAL. The opportunities are endless really. Anything that you do often in your applications and can be encapsulated into components and objects would be a perfect fit for COAL. COAL is also flexible enough to have multiple components (called services) in its library that do the same thing only in different ways, allowing the end developers to choose the service that best fits their needs. The second thing is that we need developers creating these components for COAL, as well as testing and using them, making sure that they are stable and bug-free. We have the ability to add components of an alpha, beta or stable stage so that the end developers will know what is fine to use in production without question and what they may need to take a look at to make sure. Also, components submitted to the COAL library are encouraged to be open source, although they are not required to be. You can encrypt the source if you like. And then finally, we just need ColdFusion developers using COAL and talking about COAL and just spreading the word! Here are some links to some COAL resources. Feel free to reply to this message with any questions or comments. Thank you for your time, and hopefully, we will have a great platform, making ColdFusion development even easier and enjoyable than it already is! COAL website: http://coal.ryanguill.com COAL Google Group Email List: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/CF_COAL Getting Started with COAL: http://coal.ryanguill.com/docs/tutorials/gettingstarted.cfm COAL Tutorials including How does COAL work: http://coal.ryanguill.com/docs/tutorials/ There is also a PowerPoint presentation I used to present COAL to the ColdFusion Online Meetup Group a few months back. Thanks again! -- Ryan Guill BlueEyesDevelopment [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ryanguill.com (270) 217.2399 The Coldfusion Open Application Library - COAL - http://coal.ryanguill.com www.ryanguill.com/ The Roman Empire: www.ryanguill.com/blog/ ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:216642 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
This doesn't sound to dissimilar to the libraries I've been publishing and poorly documenting here: http://www.depressedpress.com/depressedpress/Content/Development/ColdFusion/ DPLibraries/Index.cfm The idea here being the creation of service applications which lack interfaces but provide abstraction for some complex or annoying tasks. I've been distracted by other things and haven't documented as much as I would have liked but all of the Component Catalogs are documented (they're self-documenting... which is why they're done). If you see anything you can use feel free - everything's under the (non-viral) BSD license. I'm particularly pleased with the Security Library. Thanks Jim, this does sound similar. I will definately take a look! -- Ryan Guill BlueEyesDevelopment [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ryanguill.com (270) 217.2399 The Coldfusion Open Application Library - COAL - http://coal.ryanguill.com www.ryanguill.com/ The Roman Empire: www.ryanguill.com/blog/ ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:216644 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
On 8/29/05, Snake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think your reinventing the wheel here. There is already the macromedia developers exchange, and cflib.org to name but two free repository of reusable coldfusion code. Snake Snake, I think youre missing the idea here. It is not only to have a repository of free code for developers but to package it into a framework thats very usable at any time, and can start to standardize some of the code, to keep you from having to reinvent the wheel. On your note though, I have never really like macromedia developers exchange, mostly because I cant find anything on there that I need or want, and because their interface for searching and browsing the exchange is hard to use IMO. But the CFLib.org libraries are included in COAL by default. Again the idea is not only to put this code out there and available, but to package it in such a way that its very easy to plug it in and start playing from any application. -- Ryan Guill BlueEyesDevelopment [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ryanguill.com (270) 217.2399 The Coldfusion Open Application Library - COAL - http://coal.ryanguill.com www.ryanguill.com/ The Roman Empire: www.ryanguill.com/blog/ ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:216645 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
Ryan, You might also want to align your initiative to the OpenXCF thing: http://sourceforge.net/projects/openxcf (not sure of the status) To me it sounds like you are building another framework, but just going another route/approach. Using Mach-II I have a standard Api for plugins and filters that I can re-use among my applications, and it is also very easy for me to re-use other peoples filters and applications (from the Mach-II exchange). There are similar functionality existing for other frameworks as well. /Hugo -- Hugo Ahlenius - Hugo Ahlenius E-Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Project OfficerPhone: +46 8 412 1427 UNEP GRID-Arendal Fax:+46 8 723 0348 Stockholm Office Mobile: +46 733 467111 WWW: http://www.grida.no Skype:callto:fraxxinus PLEASE NOTE: NEW PHONE AND FAX NUMBERS FROM SEPT 1ST 2005 - | -Original Message- | From: Ryan Guill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] | Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 14:28 | To: CF-Talk | Subject: Re: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library | | On 8/29/05, Snake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: | I think your reinventing the wheel here. | | There is already the macromedia developers exchange, and | cflib.org to | name but two free repository of reusable coldfusion code. | | Snake | | Snake, I think youre missing the idea here. It is not only to have a | repository of free code for developers but to package it into a | framework thats very usable at any time, and can start to standardize | some of the code, to keep you from having to reinvent the wheel. | | On your note though, I have never really like macromedia developers | exchange, mostly because I cant find anything on there that I need or | want, and because their interface for searching and browsing the | exchange is hard to use IMO. | | But the CFLib.org libraries are included in COAL by default. | Again the idea is not only to put this code out there and available, | but to package it in such a way that its very easy to plug it in and | start playing from any application. | -- | Ryan Guill | BlueEyesDevelopment | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | www.ryanguill.com | (270) 217.2399 | | The Coldfusion Open Application Library - COAL - | http://coal.ryanguill.com | | www.ryanguill.com/ | The Roman Empire: www.ryanguill.com/blog/ | | ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:216646 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
Thanks for the link Hugo. Its also worth pointing out that this isnt a new framework in the sense of mach-ii, model-glue or fusebox. This is not a framework for building sites, its basically like a utilitiy framework that allows you quick and easy access to the components. Also, the framework itself, an example of the service locator pattern, has many benefits that you can leverage such as caching of the objects. I didnt point that out in the original post and I guess I probably should have. On 8/29/05, Hugo Ahlenius [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ryan, You might also want to align your initiative to the OpenXCF thing: http://sourceforge.net/projects/openxcf (not sure of the status) To me it sounds like you are building another framework, but just going another route/approach. Using Mach-II I have a standard Api for plugins and filters that I can re-use among my applications, and it is also very easy for me to re-use other peoples filters and applications (from the Mach-II exchange). There are similar functionality existing for other frameworks as well. /Hugo -- Ryan Guill BlueEyesDevelopment [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ryanguill.com (270) 217.2399 The Coldfusion Open Application Library - COAL - http://coal.ryanguill.com www.ryanguill.com/ The Roman Empire: www.ryanguill.com/blog/ ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:216647 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
Ryan, I like the idea and I quite share the vision behind what you are trying to do. I hope you will keep driving the project forward. After looking into COAL I have two comments: - It's not clear under which license you distribute the code. When you just say code copywright respective authors it basically means I am not allowed to use it on any project without permission from the authors (apart from personal use/learning). It's nothing more than the default copywright that apply to any content on the web. That's, at least, under italian laws. Being more explicit about license issues would be useful forusers and potential contributors. - At first glance it seems to me using COAL on a shared server could be problematic. Naming/versions clashes among CFCs under shared boxes can be nasty. I am not sure if you ever considered the issue. Keep up the good work Massimo Foti Tools for ColdFusion and Dreamweaver developers: http://www.massimocorner.com ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:216649 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
On 8/29/05, Massimo Foti [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ryan, I like the idea and I quite share the vision behind what you are trying to do. I hope you will keep driving the project forward. Thanks massimo, I appreciate that! After looking into COAL I have two comments: - It's not clear under which license you distribute the code. When you just say code copywright respective authors it basically means I am not allowed to use it on any project without permission from the authors (apart from personal use/learning). It's nothing more than the default copywright that apply to any content on the web. That's, at least, under italian laws. Being more explicit about license issues would be useful forusers and potential contributors. You are right, and that is something I hope to address soon. I dont know anything when it comes to licenses and so I hope to get some advice on that and update that part soon. Basically what I assume is that the COAL framework itself will be a very open license, you can basically do what you want with it, but we may have to have individual licenses for each of the components. Again, I encourage all services or components submitted to COAL to be open and open source, but they do not have to be, and you could potentially even offer services for sale to plug into COAL. I just need to get some help with that. - At first glance it seems to me using COAL on a shared server could be problematic. Naming/versions clashes among CFCs under shared boxes can be nasty. I am not sure if you ever considered the issue. Well, it could be problematic yes, but all you would really have to do is to create a mapping of a different name. Also, unless you are putting custom or proprietary components into COAL for your own use, and as long as the services are design correctly, it shouldn't be a problem in a shared environment because all instance data should be set when the objects are instantiated, or they should be real services. So unless there was proprietary or some sort of specific logic or data in a component, it really shouldnt matter in theory if it is in a shared environment. But again, if there was a problem, you could just make a coal2 mapping instead and use it. the coal mapping is just a suggestion. Keep up the good work Massimo Foti Tools for ColdFusion and Dreamweaver developers: http://www.massimocorner.com Thank you! I hope to! ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:216652 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
You are right, and that is something I hope to address soon. I dont know anything when it comes to licenses and so I hope to get some advice on that and update that part soon. I feel your pain :-) I would suggest this: http://www.phptr.com/title/0131487876 Or: http://www.oreilly.com/catalog/osfreesoft/ I am sure there is plenty of good material online too. I just like reading books. I hope somebody may post some useful link. Well, it could be problematic yes, but all you would really have to do is to create a mapping of a different name. Yes, mapping sounds like the easier/savier route on a shared box. You may want to add this to the Getting Started page, unique mapping on a shared server would prevent clashes with other COAL users Massimo Foti Tools for ColdFusion and Dreamweaver developers: http://www.massimocorner.com ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:216654 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
This is borderline thread crapping. It's far from reinventing the wheel but why should it matter anyway? Why not say Hey Ryan, thanks for spending your time away from family/work/school to contribute something to the community. I wish there were more people like you. Thanks Ryan. Emmet -Original Message- From: Snake [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 3:03 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library I think your reinventing the wheel here. There is already the macromedia developers exchange, and cflib.org to name but two free repository of reusable coldfusion code. Snake -Original Message- From: Ryan Guill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 28 August 2005 18:56 To: CF-Talk Subject: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library Hi, My name is Ryan Guill and I am developing an open-source framework for ColdFusion called COAL, which stands for the ColdFusion Open Application Library. It is intended to be similar to PHP's PEAR or PERL's CPAN libraries, although there are several differences. The basic idea is to create a free repository of reusable and flexible components for use as services and objects. Its purpose is to allow ColdFusion developers to develop their applications quicker and easier, reducing the time to market. It's a way to standardize the components as well and provide documentation for them, so that if anyone is having trouble with a COAL component, any other developer using COAL will instantly be on the same page. This project is just getting started, although a lot of work and effort has been invested already. But the project cannot continue without some help and support from the community. So here is my plea for help. What COAL currently needs is three things. We need ColdFusion developers coming up with ideas for components to include in COAL. The opportunities are endless really. Anything that you do often in your applications and can be encapsulated into components and objects would be a perfect fit for COAL. COAL is also flexible enough to have multiple components (called services) in its library that do the same thing only in different ways, allowing the end developers to choose the service that best fits their needs. The second thing is that we need developers creating these components for COAL, as well as testing and using them, making sure that they are stable and bug-free. We have the ability to add components of an alpha, beta or stable stage so that the end developers will know what is fine to use in production without question and what they may need to take a look at to make sure. Also, components submitted to the COAL library are encouraged to be open source, although they are not required to be. You can encrypt the source if you like. And then finally, we just need ColdFusion developers using COAL and talking about COAL and just spreading the word! Here are some links to some COAL resources. Feel free to reply to this message with any questions or comments. Thank you for your time, and hopefully, we will have a great platform, making ColdFusion development even easier and enjoyable than it already is! COAL website: http://coal.ryanguill.com COAL Google Group Email List: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/CF_COAL Getting Started with COAL: http://coal.ryanguill.com/docs/tutorials/gettingstarted.cfm COAL Tutorials including How does COAL work: http://coal.ryanguill.com/docs/tutorials/ There is also a PowerPoint presentation I used to present COAL to the ColdFusion Online Meetup Group a few months back. Thanks again! -- Ryan Guill BlueEyesDevelopment [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ryanguill.com (270) 217.2399 The Coldfusion Open Application Library - COAL - http://coal.ryanguill.com www.ryanguill.com/ The Roman Empire: www.ryanguill.com/blog/ ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:216679 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
The stuff on exchange isn't necessarily free either. -Original Message- From: Ryan Guill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 8:28 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library On 8/29/05, Snake [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think your reinventing the wheel here. There is already the macromedia developers exchange, and cflib.org to name but two free repository of reusable coldfusion code. Snake Snake, I think youre missing the idea here. It is not only to have a repository of free code for developers but to package it into a framework thats very usable at any time, and can start to standardize some of the code, to keep you from having to reinvent the wheel. On your note though, I have never really like macromedia developers exchange, mostly because I cant find anything on there that I need or want, and because their interface for searching and browsing the exchange is hard to use IMO. But the CFLib.org libraries are included in COAL by default. Again the idea is not only to put this code out there and available, but to package it in such a way that its very easy to plug it in and start playing from any application. -- Ryan Guill BlueEyesDevelopment [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ryanguill.com (270) 217.2399 The Coldfusion Open Application Library - COAL - http://coal.ryanguill.com www.ryanguill.com/ The Roman Empire: www.ryanguill.com/blog/ ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:216685 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
Thanks for the kind words Emmet. Its okay though, its easy to think at first glance that it is similar or the same thing that others have done, and at the surface it definately can seem that way, but it gives me a chance to explain how it is different and/or better. But I really appreciate your words. On 8/29/05, Emmet McGovern [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is borderline thread crapping. It's far from reinventing the wheel but why should it matter anyway? Why not say Hey Ryan, thanks for spending your time away from family/work/school to contribute something to the community. I wish there were more people like you. Thanks Ryan. Emmet -Original Message- From: Snake [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 3:03 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library I think your reinventing the wheel here. There is already the macromedia developers exchange, and cflib.org to name but two free repository of reusable coldfusion code. Snake -Original Message- From: Ryan Guill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 28 August 2005 18:56 To: CF-Talk Subject: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library Hi, My name is Ryan Guill and I am developing an open-source framework for ColdFusion called COAL, which stands for the ColdFusion Open Application Library. It is intended to be similar to PHP's PEAR or PERL's CPAN libraries, although there are several differences. The basic idea is to create a free repository of reusable and flexible components for use as services and objects. Its purpose is to allow ColdFusion developers to develop their applications quicker and easier, reducing the time to market. It's a way to standardize the components as well and provide documentation for them, so that if anyone is having trouble with a COAL component, any other developer using COAL will instantly be on the same page. This project is just getting started, although a lot of work and effort has been invested already. But the project cannot continue without some help and support from the community. So here is my plea for help. What COAL currently needs is three things. We need ColdFusion developers coming up with ideas for components to include in COAL. The opportunities are endless really. Anything that you do often in your applications and can be encapsulated into components and objects would be a perfect fit for COAL. COAL is also flexible enough to have multiple components (called services) in its library that do the same thing only in different ways, allowing the end developers to choose the service that best fits their needs. The second thing is that we need developers creating these components for COAL, as well as testing and using them, making sure that they are stable and bug-free. We have the ability to add components of an alpha, beta or stable stage so that the end developers will know what is fine to use in production without question and what they may need to take a look at to make sure. Also, components submitted to the COAL library are encouraged to be open source, although they are not required to be. You can encrypt the source if you like. And then finally, we just need ColdFusion developers using COAL and talking about COAL and just spreading the word! Here are some links to some COAL resources. Feel free to reply to this message with any questions or comments. Thank you for your time, and hopefully, we will have a great platform, making ColdFusion development even easier and enjoyable than it already is! COAL website: http://coal.ryanguill.com COAL Google Group Email List: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/CF_COAL Getting Started with COAL: http://coal.ryanguill.com/docs/tutorials/gettingstarted.cfm COAL Tutorials including How does COAL work: http://coal.ryanguill.com/docs/tutorials/ There is also a PowerPoint presentation I used to present COAL to the ColdFusion Online Meetup Group a few months back. Thanks again! -- Ryan Guill BlueEyesDevelopment [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ryanguill.com (270) 217.2399 The Coldfusion Open Application Library - COAL - http://coal.ryanguill.com www.ryanguill.com/ The Roman Empire: www.ryanguill.com/blog/ ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:216681 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
-Original Message- From: Emmet McGovern [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 2:52 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library This is borderline thread crapping. It's far from reinventing the wheel Well... very borderline. but why should it matter anyway? The poster may not have had a whole lot of tact, which is unfortunate, but the underlying sentiment was valid (at least I thought). Personally one of the main reasons I post stuff up for the community is to receive criticism on it. ;^) I enjoy the opportunity to defend my decisions and explain my reasons. Accolades are nice... but heck - I'd much rather argue with somebody about one of my contributions that get nice, but contextually empty praise. The former may not always be pleasant but it's almost always constructive. Jim Davis ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:216687 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
Accolades are nice... but heck - I'd much rather argue with somebody about one of my contributions that get nice, but contextually empty praise. The former may not always be pleasant but it's almost always constructive. Speaking of which, hey Jim, I've been meaning to tell you your CFC's suck! :P s. isaac dealey 954.522.6080 new epoch : isn't it time for a change? add features without fixtures with the onTap open source framework http://www.fusiontap.com http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/author/4806Dealey.htm ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:216719 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
The stuff on exchange isn't necessarily free either. Yeah, that's not really an argument for COAL as I understand it tho... iirc and if I'm reading him correctly, his intent is for the licensing (once it's finalized) to allow commercial components to be integrated into the otherwise open-source framework... Yes, there's an active interest in OS components, but I believe his intent is to structure it such that it's not required that they be OS components. s. isaac dealey 954.522.6080 new epoch : isn't it time for a change? add features without fixtures with the onTap open source framework http://www.fusiontap.com http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/author/4806Dealey.htm ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:216721 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
On 8/29/05, S. Isaac Dealey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The stuff on exchange isn't necessarily free either. Yeah, that's not really an argument for COAL as I understand it tho... iirc and if I'm reading him correctly, his intent is for the licensing (once it's finalized) to allow commercial components to be integrated into the otherwise open-source framework... Yes, there's an active interest in OS components, but I believe his intent is to structure it such that it's not required that they be OS components. Well Isaac, yes and no. My intent and recomendation is that all services be both open source and free, but the system is flexible enough to allow for commercial components as well. The authors of commercial components would be required to provide all information and support for the components, include how they work with COAL, and would not be included with the COAL download. It is not my intent to make money off of COAL, not at all. It is my intent to provide an efficient and reliable library of common components for all coldfusion developers to use freely. But there will never be a retail component to the COAL project itself. -- Ryan Guill BlueEyesDevelopment [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ryanguill.com (270) 217.2399 The Coldfusion Open Application Library - COAL - http://coal.ryanguill.com www.ryanguill.com/ The Roman Empire: www.ryanguill.com/blog/ ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:216724 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
On 8/29/05, S. Isaac Dealey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The stuff on exchange isn't necessarily free either. Yeah, that's not really an argument for COAL as I understand it tho... iirc and if I'm reading him correctly, his intent is for the licensing (once it's finalized) to allow commercial components to be integrated into the otherwise open-source framework... Yes, there's an active interest in OS components, but I believe his intent is to structure it such that it's not required that they be OS components. Well Isaac, yes and no. My intent and recomendation is that all services be both open source and free, but the system is flexible enough to allow for commercial components as well. The authors of commercial components would be required to provide all information and support for the components, include how they work with COAL, and would not be included with the COAL download. It is not my intent to make money off of COAL, not at all. It is my intent to provide an efficient and reliable library of common components for all coldfusion developers to use freely. But there will never be a retail component to the COAL project itself. Yeah, that was my interpretation... I didn't mean to imply that I thought commercial components would be included in the COAL download -- merely that it would be permissible for commercial components to be implemented via COAL. s. isaac dealey 954.522.6080 new epoch : isn't it time for a change? add features without fixtures with the onTap open source framework http://www.fusiontap.com http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/author/4806Dealey.htm ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:216725 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
Yeah, that was my interpretation... I didn't mean to imply that I thought commercial components would be included in the COAL download -- merely that it would be permissible for commercial components to be implemented via COAL. Yes, thats true. Honestly the way COAL is set up though, there isn't much I could do to keep that from being a possibility ;) But it is a good option for some to have I suppose. -- Ryan Guill BlueEyesDevelopment [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ryanguill.com (270) 217.2399 The Coldfusion Open Application Library - COAL - http://coal.ryanguill.com www.ryanguill.com/ The Roman Empire: www.ryanguill.com/blog/ ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:216727 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
Yeah, that was my interpretation... I didn't mean to imply that I thought commercial components would be included in the COAL download -- merely that it would be permissible for commercial components to be implemented via COAL. Yes, thats true. Honestly the way COAL is set up though, there isn't much I could do to keep that from being a possibility ;) But it is a good option for some to have I suppose. Well asside from licensing... You could very well declare in the license that it's not permissible to integrate commercial components through COAL, although I would think that would be contrary to the desire for increased involvement in the project. I figured COAL would probably be going more toward something like an OpenBSD license which scarcely says anything other than tell people you use it, tell people we made it, and tell people we're not responsible if they have problems with it. s. isaac dealey 954.522.6080 new epoch : isn't it time for a change? add features without fixtures with the onTap open source framework http://www.fusiontap.com http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/author/4806Dealey.htm ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:216729 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
Well asside from licensing... You could very well declare in the license that it's not permissible to integrate commercial components through COAL, although I would think that would be contrary to the desire for increased involvement in the project. I figured COAL would probably be going more toward something like an OpenBSD license which scarcely says anything other than tell people you use it, tell people we made it, and tell people we're not responsible if they have problems with it. You're right. It may not be something I go around talking about or necessarily encouraging, but it would not hurt at all and could definately be beneficial to the platform as long as it wasn't abused. I can see it being analogus in this respect to the eclipse platform. Many open source components (plug-ins in thier case) and many that you can buy, although the core of the open source components (any that offered any value to a large enough group of people) would be included in the framework by default. As far as the openBSD license, that is pretty much the idea, Something very similar to CFLib's notice at the top of all of their code saying who the authors were to give credit, give COAL the credit for the framework, and yeah, with this sort of open source project there wouldnt be any support for it except for what the community and developers could offer. -- Ryan Guill BlueEyesDevelopment [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ryanguill.com (270) 217.2399 The Coldfusion Open Application Library - COAL - http://coal.ryanguill.com www.ryanguill.com/ The Roman Empire: www.ryanguill.com/blog/ ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:216730 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
-Original Message- From: S. Isaac Dealey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 7:30 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library Accolades are nice... but heck - I'd much rather argue with somebody about one of my contributions that get nice, but contextually empty praise. The former may not always be pleasant but it's almost always constructive. Speaking of which, hey Jim, I've been meaning to tell you your CFC's suck! :P Wel... I guess now that Isaac's, as per usual, lowered the bar I'll have to specify constructive criticism. ;^) Jim Davis ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:216732 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
-Original Message- From: S. Isaac Dealey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, August 29, 2005 7:30 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library Accolades are nice... but heck - I'd much rather argue with somebody about one of my contributions that get nice, but contextually empty praise. The former may not always be pleasant but it's almost always constructive. Speaking of which, hey Jim, I've been meaning to tell you your CFC's suck! :P Wel... I guess now that Isaac's, as per usual, lowered the bar I'll have to specify constructive criticism. ;^) You're welcome. I'm just glad I could help. :) s. isaac dealey 954.522.6080 new epoch : isn't it time for a change? add features without fixtures with the onTap open source framework http://www.fusiontap.com http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/author/4806Dealey.htm ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:216734 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
Hi, My name is Ryan Guill and I am developing an open-source framework for ColdFusion called COAL, which stands for the ColdFusion Open Application Library. It is intended to be similar to PHP's PEAR or PERL's CPAN libraries, although there are several differences. The basic idea is to create a free repository of reusable and flexible components for use as services and objects. Its purpose is to allow ColdFusion developers to develop their applications quicker and easier, reducing the time to market. It's a way to standardize the components as well and provide documentation for them, so that if anyone is having trouble with a COAL component, any other developer using COAL will instantly be on the same page. This project is just getting started, although a lot of work and effort has been invested already. But the project cannot continue without some help and support from the community. So here is my plea for help. What COAL currently needs is three things. We need ColdFusion developers coming up with ideas for components to include in COAL. The opportunities are endless really. Anything that you do often in your applications and can be encapsulated into components and objects would be a perfect fit for COAL. COAL is also flexible enough to have multiple components (called services) in its library that do the same thing only in different ways, allowing the end developers to choose the service that best fits their needs. The second thing is that we need developers creating these components for COAL, as well as testing and using them, making sure that they are stable and bug-free. We have the ability to add components of an alpha, beta or stable stage so that the end developers will know what is fine to use in production without question and what they may need to take a look at to make sure. Also, components submitted to the COAL library are encouraged to be open source, although they are not required to be. You can encrypt the source if you like. And then finally, we just need ColdFusion developers using COAL and talking about COAL and just spreading the word! Here are some links to some COAL resources. Feel free to reply to this message with any questions or comments. Thank you for your time, and hopefully, we will have a great platform, making ColdFusion development even easier and enjoyable than it already is! COAL website: http://coal.ryanguill.com COAL Google Group Email List: http://groups-beta.google.com/group/CF_COAL Getting Started with COAL: http://coal.ryanguill.com/docs/tutorials/gettingstarted.cfm COAL Tutorials including How does COAL work: http://coal.ryanguill.com/docs/tutorials/ There is also a PowerPoint presentation I used to present COAL to the ColdFusion Online Meetup Group a few months back. Thanks again! -- Ryan Guill BlueEyesDevelopment [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ryanguill.com (270) 217.2399 The Coldfusion Open Application Library - COAL - http://coal.ryanguill.com www.ryanguill.com/ The Roman Empire: www.ryanguill.com/blog/ ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:216626 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Fwd: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
I think I replied to Isaac instead of the list, so this is what I said: I had not heard of onTap, I will defiantely take a look! Thanks, On 8/28/05, S. Isaac Dealey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The basic idea is to create a free repository of reusable and flexible components for use as services and objects. Its purpose is to allow ColdFusion developers to develop their applications quicker and easier, reducing the time to market. It's a way to standardize the components as well and provide documentation for them, so that if anyone is having trouble with a COAL component, any other developer using COAL will instantly be on the same page. Hi Ryan, I've had a look at COAL. It's not bad. This paragraph here of course describes some of the hopes that have been behind the onTap framework for a long time as well... it hasn't really worked out that way -- at least not yet. Mostly because I haven't been able to generate the interest amongst the developer community. For myself, I'm now able to produce good quality app work very quickly (think Ruby on Rails for CF), like the Blogs onTap plugin which I built in a week and is way more feature-rich than BlogCFC. I was kind of wondering if you'd seen the onTap framework and if so if you had any thoughts on it in particular? COAL is certainly not mutually exclusive -- all I'd have to do is put the coal include in my application stage and viola - integrated funcationality. If you get a few minutes, have a look at the Power onTap presentation (it's about 18 minutes) at http://www.fusiontap.com/docs/index.cfm?netaction=articlesarticle=200 and/or install the Blogs onTap sample application (http://www.fusiontap.com/download - it requires all 4 of the currently available modules -- framework core, plugin manager, members onTap and the blog). I'd be interested to know what you think. :) s. isaac dealey 954.522.6080 new epoch : isn't it time for a change? add features without fixtures with the onTap open source framework http://www.fusiontap.com http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/author/4806Dealey.htm -- Ryan Guill BlueEyesDevelopment [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ryanguill.com (270) 217.2399 The Coldfusion Open Application Library - COAL - http://coal.ryanguill.com www.ryanguill.com/ The Roman Empire: www.ryanguill.com/blog/ -- Ryan Guill BlueEyesDevelopment [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ryanguill.com (270) 217.2399 The Coldfusion Open Application Library - COAL - http://coal.ryanguill.com www.ryanguill.com/ The Roman Empire: www.ryanguill.com/blog/ ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:216634 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
On 8/28/05, Tony [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: thats kinda funny, i bought www.coalfusion.com just a couple months ago cause where i live, thats how the idiot rednecks pronounce coldfusion :) coalfusion. Ah, so youre the reason I had so much trouble whe I tried to find a domain name for coal! ;) If you're not using it for something, would you consider donating it to the cause? ;) -- Ryan Guill BlueEyesDevelopment [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.ryanguill.com (270) 217.2399 The Coldfusion Open Application Library - COAL - http://coal.ryanguill.com www.ryanguill.com/ The Roman Empire: www.ryanguill.com/blog/ ~| Logware (www.logware.us): a new and convenient web-based time tracking application. Start tracking and documenting hours spent on a project or with a client with Logware today. Try it for free with a 15 day trial account. http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=67 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:216635 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
Re: Fwd: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
I think I replied to Isaac instead of the list, so this is what I said: I had not heard of onTap, I will defiantely take a look! Sorry about that -- nah, I had sent that message off-list... Not that I mind it being on the list, but there's been a fair amount of talk about my framework on the list recently anyway, and I figured it made more sense for me to email you directly rather than continue to flood the list :) and potentially upset a bunch of nice folks like I accidentally did with a thread about PLUM a while ago. (My diplomatic skills seem to be rather hit or miss unfortunately.) Thanks for the reply in any event. :) s. isaac dealey 954.522.6080 new epoch : isn't it time for a change? add features without fixtures with the onTap open source framework http://www.fusiontap.com http://coldfusion.sys-con.com/author/4806Dealey.htm ~| Find out how CFTicket can increase your company's customer support efficiency by 100% http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=49 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:216637 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
RE: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library
-Original Message- From: Ryan Guill [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, August 28, 2005 1:56 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: COAL- the Coldfusion Open Application Library Hi, My name is Ryan Guill and I am developing an open-source framework for ColdFusion called COAL, which stands for the ColdFusion Open Application Library. It is intended to be similar to PHP's PEAR or PERL's CPAN libraries, although there are several differences. This doesn't sound to dissimilar to the libraries I've been publishing and poorly documenting here: http://www.depressedpress.com/depressedpress/Content/Development/ColdFusion/ DPLibraries/Index.cfm The idea here being the creation of service applications which lack interfaces but provide abstraction for some complex or annoying tasks. I've been distracted by other things and haven't documented as much as I would have liked but all of the Component Catalogs are documented (they're self-documenting... which is why they're done). If you see anything you can use feel free - everything's under the (non-viral) BSD license. I'm particularly pleased with the Security Library. Jim Davis ~| Discover CFTicket - The leading ColdFusion Help Desk and Trouble Ticket application http://www.houseoffusion.com/banners/view.cfm?bannerid=48 Message: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=i:4:216638 Archives: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/threads.cfm/4 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/lists.cfm/link=s:4 Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4 Donations Support: http://www.houseoffusion.com/tiny.cfm/54
