RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR
This thread is in context with CF. -Original Message- From: Joe Eugene [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 19:27 To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR I am seeing a lot of *FLASH* talk on here.. its kinda disturbing... was wondering if Michael can move all the FLASH talk to another discussion Group (CF-TALK-FLASH) or something like that. Joe - Original Message - From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 12:01 PM Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR OK then, will I get a super discount on Flash from MM - say 98% as I am only going to use 2% of its features? :-) nah, didnt think so.. N -Original Message- From: Ben Forta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 16:38 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR Actually, I think it makes a lot of sense. I just needed a form with side by side list boxes, make a selection in one and the second is populated with selections that change based on what was selected in the first. Try doing that simply and easily in HTML (without screen refreshes). Flash, ColdFusion CFCs, and Flash Remoting make it a no brainer. Did I use animation? Nope. Did I need the timeline? Nope. In fact, I don't even have it open - I used a single frame and a single layer. There is legitimate use for Flash beyond animation. --- Ben -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:57 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may just be a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and not HTML doesnt make sense... -Original Message- From: Mike Chambers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 15:35 To: CF-Talk Subject: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) I like Flash, dont get me wrong, but if all you are doing it linking to a DB for a static form or grid etc, then you may as well use HTML and no I am not anti Flash Remoting - far from it, I just dont see the business benefit (development time = cost) of using say Flash for things which could be developed in normal HTML. If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction, then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely, the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update the data view (or to submit data, etc). btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the server. What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of Participants' (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running. For what its worth, here is my workflow. 1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components. 2. send it to a designer to make it look pretty. btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a bunch of code that maintains client state across page views. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR
Igor, I certainly am 'broad' when it comes to Macromedia :p. I am well aware of who works for/with MM and indeed I have spent a great deal of time on all the mentioned application alpha and beta apps and indeed I have seen some cool stuff. But what I am saying it not dont use it but more like search your library for existing code before deciding the Flash option. Its easy to jump on the bandwagon but its even easier to fall off it. FYI : no I dont use IE as my FTP app, I use command prompt, even better! Oh and as for viewing text docs in IE, sure you can do it, but can you edit them? for that I will stick with Notepad. N -Original Message- From: Ilyinsky, Igor [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 21:35 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR YES, that is a great analogy. Using flash to present data IS like using IE for viewing Text Documents (sorta), but what's wrong with that? Viewing remote txt documents in IE is in no way inferior to notepad; in fact, I think it's better because you don't need to launch another application, and there are so many other things IE can do (as can Flash). Do you use IE for FTP? I think it is the best (and free-est) FTP Client I have ever used! What about IE for local folder browsing; or other web protocols? Like Flash, IE can be used for many things (and many out of the scope of what it is famous for). Neil, I think you need to broaden your thinking and see the big picture. These people are not just praising Flash because they work for Macromedia (although 3 of them do), but because of all of its powers. Flash will not redefine the possibilities of what can be done on the web; It will simply provide you a with the toolset to do it faster, cheaper, cleaner, and (most importantly) you will only need to do it ONCE for each release. IGOR ILYINSKY CREDIT|FIRST SUISSE|BOSTON GLOBAL WEB SERVICES -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:57 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may just be a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and not HTML doesnt make sense... -Original Message- From: Mike Chambers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 15:35 To: CF-Talk Subject: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) I like Flash, dont get me wrong, but if all you are doing it linking to a DB for a static form or grid etc, then you may as well use HTML and no I am not anti Flash Remoting - far from it, I just dont see the business benefit (development time = cost) of using say Flash for things which could be developed in normal HTML. If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction, then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely, the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update the data view (or to submit data, etc). btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the server. What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of Participants' (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running. For what its worth, here is my workflow. 1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components. 2. send it to a designer to make it look pretty. btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a bunch of code that maintains client state across page views. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR
If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction, then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely, the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update the data view (or to submit data, etc). I disagree. Things like the datasheet component are very useful for displaying data. I think any case where you have a large or complex amount of data to display could use Flash to make the UI easier to handle. Of course, you may have meant interaction to mean sorting or filtering of some kind. I took interaction to mean editing. -ray __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR
so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may just be a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and not HTML doesnt make sense... -Original Message- From: Mike Chambers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 15:35 To: CF-Talk Subject: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) I like Flash, dont get me wrong, but if all you are doing it linking to a DB for a static form or grid etc, then you may as well use HTML and no I am not anti Flash Remoting - far from it, I just dont see the business benefit (development time = cost) of using say Flash for things which could be developed in normal HTML. If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction, then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely, the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update the data view (or to submit data, etc). btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the server. What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of Participants' (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running. For what its worth, here is my workflow. 1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components. 2. send it to a designer to make it look pretty. btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a bunch of code that maintains client state across page views. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR
Hi, Mike. Your work sounds exactly like what I'm trying to make happen. Any resources you would point me to, to get an Intermediate CF coder familiar enough with Flash Remoting, especially ActionScript, to create some one-page apps? Rick -Original Message- From: Mike Chambers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:35 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) I like Flash, dont get me wrong, but if all you are doing it linking to a DB for a static form or grid etc, then you may as well use HTML and no I am not anti Flash Remoting - far from it, I just dont see the business benefit (development time = cost) of using say Flash for things which could be developed in normal HTML. If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction, then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely, the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update the data view (or to submit data, etc). btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the server. What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of Participants' (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running. For what its worth, here is my workflow. 1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components. 2. send it to a designer to make it look pretty. btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a bunch of code that maintains client state across page views. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR
Neil, do you see any advantage to one-page data presentation and maintenance interfaces as opposed to multiple-page interfaces? Rick -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:57 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may just be a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and not HTML doesnt make sense... -Original Message- From: Mike Chambers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 15:35 To: CF-Talk Subject: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) I like Flash, dont get me wrong, but if all you are doing it linking to a DB for a static form or grid etc, then you may as well use HTML and no I am not anti Flash Remoting - far from it, I just dont see the business benefit (development time = cost) of using say Flash for things which could be developed in normal HTML. If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction, then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely, the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update the data view (or to submit data, etc). btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the server. What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of Participants' (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running. For what its worth, here is my workflow. 1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components. 2. send it to a designer to make it look pretty. btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a bunch of code that maintains client state across page views. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR
It depends, yeah sure its 'cool', but do you really gain from using a flash movie? sure, you get the movie in the browser window and you dont have to reload the page persay - but you still have to load the information into the movie and this effectively is your page load. Multiple Page operations are simply by design, jeez if it was so cool to keep the user on one screen then you could expect to see it within your OS wouldnt you!? N -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 16:19 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR Neil, do you see any advantage to one-page data presentation and maintenance interfaces as opposed to multiple-page interfaces? Rick -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:57 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may just be a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and not HTML doesnt make sense... -Original Message- From: Mike Chambers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 15:35 To: CF-Talk Subject: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) I like Flash, dont get me wrong, but if all you are doing it linking to a DB for a static form or grid etc, then you may as well use HTML and no I am not anti Flash Remoting - far from it, I just dont see the business benefit (development time = cost) of using say Flash for things which could be developed in normal HTML. If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction, then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely, the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update the data view (or to submit data, etc). btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the server. What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of Participants' (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running. For what its worth, here is my workflow. 1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components. 2. send it to a designer to make it look pretty. btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a bunch of code that maintains client state across page views. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR
Oh and to add...you have a look at all the examples and SOTD etc.. and you see how many are cool, and have aninamation etc (I woudl say 100%) this is where the npower lies, but not everyone has this power.. funky and cool sells apps, there is nothing wrong with that, but on a whole; its beyond the reach of even the advanced CF'er with jackshit Flash skills (AS/Anim etc..) maybe I will take a trip to Degobah and see what I can learn.. -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 16:19 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR Neil, do you see any advantage to one-page data presentation and maintenance interfaces as opposed to multiple-page interfaces? Rick -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:57 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may just be a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and not HTML doesnt make sense... -Original Message- From: Mike Chambers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 15:35 To: CF-Talk Subject: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) I like Flash, dont get me wrong, but if all you are doing it linking to a DB for a static form or grid etc, then you may as well use HTML and no I am not anti Flash Remoting - far from it, I just dont see the business benefit (development time = cost) of using say Flash for things which could be developed in normal HTML. If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction, then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely, the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update the data view (or to submit data, etc). btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the server. What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of Participants' (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running. For what its worth, here is my workflow. 1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components. 2. send it to a designer to make it look pretty. btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a bunch of code that maintains client state across page views. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR
If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction, then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely, the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update the data view (or to submit data, etc). Depending on the browser, it doesn't need to refresh the entire page now -- and espcially less so with the advance of a standard DOM from the w3c ... Admittedly, there's less issue with browser inconsistency with Flash -- well, now that NS 7 supports MX anyway. btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a bunch of code that maintains client state across page views. Until the user hits their f5 key. S. Isaac Dealey Certified Advanced ColdFusion 5 Developer www.turnkey.to 954-776-0046 __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR
Actually, I think it makes a lot of sense. I just needed a form with side by side list boxes, make a selection in one and the second is populated with selections that change based on what was selected in the first. Try doing that simply and easily in HTML (without screen refreshes). Flash, ColdFusion CFCs, and Flash Remoting make it a no brainer. Did I use animation? Nope. Did I need the timeline? Nope. In fact, I don't even have it open - I used a single frame and a single layer. There is legitimate use for Flash beyond animation. --- Ben -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:57 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may just be a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and not HTML doesnt make sense... -Original Message- From: Mike Chambers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 15:35 To: CF-Talk Subject: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) I like Flash, dont get me wrong, but if all you are doing it linking to a DB for a static form or grid etc, then you may as well use HTML and no I am not anti Flash Remoting - far from it, I just dont see the business benefit (development time = cost) of using say Flash for things which could be developed in normal HTML. If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction, then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely, the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update the data view (or to submit data, etc). btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the server. What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of Participants' (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running. For what its worth, here is my workflow. 1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components. 2. send it to a designer to make it look pretty. btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a bunch of code that maintains client state across page views. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Flash for data views
All, I've been doing Flash apps for a while now and I wanted to put in a couple cents to this thread about my experience. I would like to agree with Ray and Mike on a lot of their points. Flash does not necessarily equal more time. It has a learning curve no doubt, but so does HTML/CFML. If you were a Visual Basic programmer, you might say why should I build this application in ColdFusion when it would take me half the time in Visual Basic? We do Flash MX applications exclusively at my company and our project bids are not higher than the HTML equivalent and we usually offer more because the Flash interface simply offers more than HTML/DHTML ever could. As for animation, I can thankfully say that I have had to do almost zero tweening in my Flash history. It simply doesn't apply to applications for the most part. Everything is more event based and states are managed with AS. Personally, I used the Flash authoring tool like Visual Basic studio. If you think of it in that light, it makes much more sense. Most of the time, I forget that there's even a timeline in Flash. As for the Macromedia course, however, I would disagree on a few points. I haven't looked at the course so please correct me if I'm wrong on any of this. The course seems to give a good introduction to Flash but the one serious problem Flash has is that it has no application framework or standardized methodology for building applications. For example, Flash Remoting is great but it won't help you if you can't easily route calls and callbacks within your application. There was some work done on this with the Pet Market application, but there's definitely some quirky stuff within that application. Ray or Mike, are there any plans for any official methodology or app framework from Macromedia? Ben Johnson Information Architect www.architekture.com [p] 720.934.2179 __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR
Actually, I think it makes a lot of sense. I just needed a form with side by side list boxes, make a selection in one and the second is populated with selections that change based on what was selected in the first. Try doing that simply and easily in HTML (without screen refreshes). Flash, ColdFusion CFCs, and Flash Remoting make it a no brainer. Did I use animation? Nope. Did I need the timeline? Nope. In fact, I don't even have it open - I used a single frame and a single layer. There is legitimate use for Flash beyond animation. I just released a custom tag to do this - and I would have much rather done it in Flash. Since it's so easy to pass stuff in to Flash via code (ie, not remoting), I'm surprised no one has released a generic flash movie for this scenario that is controllable via CFML. Even a newbie like myself could write this rather quickly. (Of course, gotta find the time. ;) === Raymond Camden, ColdFusion Jedi Master for Hire Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo IM : morpheus My ally is the Force, and a powerful ally it is. - Yoda __ This list and all House of Fusion resources hosted by CFHosting.com. The place for dependable ColdFusion Hosting. FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR
OK then, will I get a super discount on Flash from MM - say 98% as I am only going to use 2% of its features? :-) nah, didnt think so.. N -Original Message- From: Ben Forta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 16:38 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR Actually, I think it makes a lot of sense. I just needed a form with side by side list boxes, make a selection in one and the second is populated with selections that change based on what was selected in the first. Try doing that simply and easily in HTML (without screen refreshes). Flash, ColdFusion CFCs, and Flash Remoting make it a no brainer. Did I use animation? Nope. Did I need the timeline? Nope. In fact, I don't even have it open - I used a single frame and a single layer. There is legitimate use for Flash beyond animation. --- Ben -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:57 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may just be a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and not HTML doesnt make sense... -Original Message- From: Mike Chambers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 15:35 To: CF-Talk Subject: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) I like Flash, dont get me wrong, but if all you are doing it linking to a DB for a static form or grid etc, then you may as well use HTML and no I am not anti Flash Remoting - far from it, I just dont see the business benefit (development time = cost) of using say Flash for things which could be developed in normal HTML. If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction, then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely, the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update the data view (or to submit data, etc). btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the server. What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of Participants' (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running. For what its worth, here is my workflow. 1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components. 2. send it to a designer to make it look pretty. btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a bunch of code that maintains client state across page views. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Flash for data views
Just to add a point about the learning curve... Actionscript and javascript are very close cousins. Many javascript programmers I know have been able to pick up Actionscript with minimal effort - the main conceptual difference is the time itself is an event in Flash, and you need to account for its passage. M -Original Message- From: Ben Johnson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 11:47 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views All, I've been doing Flash apps for a while now and I wanted to put in a couple cents to this thread about my experience. I would like to agree with Ray and Mike on a lot of their points. Flash does not necessarily equal more time. It has a learning curve no doubt, but so does HTML/CFML. If you were a Visual Basic programmer, you might say why should I build this application in ColdFusion when it would take me half the time in Visual Basic? We do Flash MX applications exclusively at my company and our project bids are not higher than the HTML equivalent and we usually offer more because the Flash interface simply offers more than HTML/DHTML ever could. .. Ben Johnson Information Architect www.architekture.com [p] 720.934.2179 __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR
Neil, Sure you will, as soon as Microsoft discounts most of the cost of Office and Word considering what percentage of its features that are actually used, and as soon as MM discounts CF considering 90%+ of usage is 5 tags (hey, we DID discount CF, oops! g) ... I don't think anyone here is saying that Flash should not be used for animation. Obviously it does very well in that space. But for us CFers (many of whom are design-challenged, starting with myself) Flash now has real uses beyond movies and animation. And by now I mean Flash MX for a few important reasons: Prebuilt components Better coding support Better CF integration Those of you who can do animation are not out of a job, they'll still be a need for that. But for those of us who want simple things (like the example I gave), Flash is now a very usable and viable option. --- Ben -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 12:02 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR OK then, will I get a super discount on Flash from MM - say 98% as I am only going to use 2% of its features? :-) nah, didnt think so.. N -Original Message- From: Ben Forta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 16:38 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR Actually, I think it makes a lot of sense. I just needed a form with side by side list boxes, make a selection in one and the second is populated with selections that change based on what was selected in the first. Try doing that simply and easily in HTML (without screen refreshes). Flash, ColdFusion CFCs, and Flash Remoting make it a no brainer. Did I use animation? Nope. Did I need the timeline? Nope. In fact, I don't even have it open - I used a single frame and a single layer. There is legitimate use for Flash beyond animation. --- Ben -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:57 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may just be a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and not HTML doesnt make sense... -Original Message- From: Mike Chambers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 15:35 To: CF-Talk Subject: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) I like Flash, dont get me wrong, but if all you are doing it linking to a DB for a static form or grid etc, then you may as well use HTML and no I am not anti Flash Remoting - far from it, I just dont see the business benefit (development time = cost) of using say Flash for things which could be developed in normal HTML. If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction, then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely, the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update the data view (or to submit data, etc). btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the server. What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of Participants' (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running. For what its worth, here is my workflow. 1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components. 2. send it to a designer to make it look pretty. btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a bunch of code that maintains client state across page views. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR
I'm not sure by what you mean by see it in your OS, but it would be similar to using, say Excel. Instead of jumping around to different pages to add, update, delete info, you just type directly in the field and it changes, without having to go to an Action page for processing. One screen is all the user has to deal with. The display of data and form for processing are integrated. With a Flash interface, the experience would be the same: you would have a live dataview which would allow for updating, adding, and deleting information without changing screens. No going to another page for an update form, etc. It's not the cool effect that's significant. I remember when I first started browsing websites, it was very confusing jumping around all over the place, not knowing where I was in relation to where I'd been, etc...jumping around in cyberspace. For business owners, whose experience is more with using software than HTMLware, jumping between pages to process info is confusing, until they get the hang of it. But that first impression for a prospective client can make or break the sale of a project. The hurdles I'm trying to overcome by using a single-page app interface are those experienced by users who are used to doing everything, as much as possible, on one page of an app, like Excel, or Word... For these users, avoiding the Click here to update this information, then going to a form, editing the info, submitting, getting confirmation and another Click here to update another record, etc., can be replaced by live editing of info onscreen, while other information on the screen is automatically updated. It's a process that is simpler for users to understand initially. And, too, Flash can create the beautiful graphic interfaces which provide the finishing touch to any great app... ;o) Rick -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 11:22 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR It depends, yeah sure its 'cool', but do you really gain from using a flash movie? sure, you get the movie in the browser window and you dont have to reload the page persay - but you still have to load the information into the movie and this effectively is your page load. Multiple Page operations are simply by design, jeez if it was so cool to keep the user on one screen then you could expect to see it within your OS wouldnt you!? N -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 16:19 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR Neil, do you see any advantage to one-page data presentation and maintenance interfaces as opposed to multiple-page interfaces? Rick -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:57 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may just be a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and not HTML doesnt make sense... -Original Message- From: Mike Chambers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 15:35 To: CF-Talk Subject: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) I like Flash, dont get me wrong, but if all you are doing it linking to a DB for a static form or grid etc, then you may as well use HTML and no I am not anti Flash Remoting - far from it, I just dont see the business benefit (development time = cost) of using say Flash for things which could be developed in normal HTML. If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction, then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely, the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update the data view (or to submit data, etc). btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the server. What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of Participants' (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running. For what its worth, here is my workflow. 1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components. 2. send it to a designer to make it look pretty. btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a bunch of code that maintains client state across page
RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR
I wouldn't expect many of the Flash SOTD's to not use animation to get recognized as cool. But even Pet Market's use of animation is more functional than eye candy. They move the images into different areas of the screen to make room for new info, not so much to make the app attractive. If they didn't move them, the app couldn't do its job. And one of the main apps that is used to promote Flash as a tool instead of cool has no animation at all... The Broadmoor.com Online Reservation System. No amination at all, but a great piece of programming. Instead of 5 or more drill-down pages everything from start to finish on one page...brilliant! That's what I'm talking about...it's not so cool to look at but it is extremely cool to use! Rick -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 11:25 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR Oh and to add...you have a look at all the examples and SOTD etc.. and you see how many are cool, and have aninamation etc (I woudl say 100%) this is where the npower lies, but not everyone has this power.. funky and cool sells apps, there is nothing wrong with that, but on a whole; its beyond the reach of even the advanced CF'er with jackshit Flash skills (AS/Anim etc..) maybe I will take a trip to Degobah and see what I can learn.. -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 16:19 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR Neil, do you see any advantage to one-page data presentation and maintenance interfaces as opposed to multiple-page interfaces? Rick -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:57 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may just be a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and not HTML doesnt make sense... -Original Message- From: Mike Chambers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 15:35 To: CF-Talk Subject: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) I like Flash, dont get me wrong, but if all you are doing it linking to a DB for a static form or grid etc, then you may as well use HTML and no I am not anti Flash Remoting - far from it, I just dont see the business benefit (development time = cost) of using say Flash for things which could be developed in normal HTML. If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction, then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely, the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update the data view (or to submit data, etc). btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the server. What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of Participants' (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running. For what its worth, here is my workflow. 1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components. 2. send it to a designer to make it look pretty. btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a bunch of code that maintains client state across page views. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Your ad could be here. Monies from ads go to support these lists and provide more resources for the community. http://www.fusionauthority.com/ads.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR
Also, I'm trying to say, that in the business world, funky and cool *don't* sell many business apps...functionality and ease of use sell more apps... and that's what many of us see as the strength of Flash now... Rick -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 11:25 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR Oh and to add...you have a look at all the examples and SOTD etc.. and you see how many are cool, and have aninamation etc (I woudl say 100%) this is where the npower lies, but not everyone has this power.. funky and cool sells apps, there is nothing wrong with that, but on a whole; its beyond the reach of even the advanced CF'er with jackshit Flash skills (AS/Anim etc..) maybe I will take a trip to Degobah and see what I can learn.. -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 16:19 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR Neil, do you see any advantage to one-page data presentation and maintenance interfaces as opposed to multiple-page interfaces? Rick -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:57 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may just be a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and not HTML doesnt make sense... -Original Message- From: Mike Chambers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 15:35 To: CF-Talk Subject: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) I like Flash, dont get me wrong, but if all you are doing it linking to a DB for a static form or grid etc, then you may as well use HTML and no I am not anti Flash Remoting - far from it, I just dont see the business benefit (development time = cost) of using say Flash for things which could be developed in normal HTML. If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction, then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely, the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update the data view (or to submit data, etc). btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the server. What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of Participants' (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running. For what its worth, here is my workflow. 1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components. 2. send it to a designer to make it look pretty. btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a bunch of code that maintains client state across page views. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR
Exactly! -Original Message- From: Ben Forta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 11:38 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR Actually, I think it makes a lot of sense. I just needed a form with side by side list boxes, make a selection in one and the second is populated with selections that change based on what was selected in the first. Try doing that simply and easily in HTML (without screen refreshes). Flash, ColdFusion CFCs, and Flash Remoting make it a no brainer. Did I use animation? Nope. Did I need the timeline? Nope. In fact, I don't even have it open - I used a single frame and a single layer. There is legitimate use for Flash beyond animation. --- Ben -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:57 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may just be a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and not HTML doesnt make sense... -Original Message- From: Mike Chambers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 15:35 To: CF-Talk Subject: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) I like Flash, dont get me wrong, but if all you are doing it linking to a DB for a static form or grid etc, then you may as well use HTML and no I am not anti Flash Remoting - far from it, I just dont see the business benefit (development time = cost) of using say Flash for things which could be developed in normal HTML. If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction, then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely, the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update the data view (or to submit data, etc). btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the server. What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of Participants' (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running. For what its worth, here is my workflow. 1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components. 2. send it to a designer to make it look pretty. btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a bunch of code that maintains client state across page views. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR
Wish I could figure out how to do that... :o( I'm still trying... Rick -Original Message- From: Ben Forta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 11:38 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR Actually, I think it makes a lot of sense. I just needed a form with side by side list boxes, make a selection in one and the second is populated with selections that change based on what was selected in the first. Try doing that simply and easily in HTML (without screen refreshes). Flash, ColdFusion CFCs, and Flash Remoting make it a no brainer. Did I use animation? Nope. Did I need the timeline? Nope. In fact, I don't even have it open - I used a single frame and a single layer. There is legitimate use for Flash beyond animation. --- Ben -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:57 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may just be a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and not HTML doesnt make sense... -Original Message- From: Mike Chambers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 15:35 To: CF-Talk Subject: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) I like Flash, dont get me wrong, but if all you are doing it linking to a DB for a static form or grid etc, then you may as well use HTML and no I am not anti Flash Remoting - far from it, I just dont see the business benefit (development time = cost) of using say Flash for things which could be developed in normal HTML. If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction, then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely, the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update the data view (or to submit data, etc). btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the server. What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of Participants' (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running. For what its worth, here is my workflow. 1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components. 2. send it to a designer to make it look pretty. btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a bunch of code that maintains client state across page views. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR
Rick, I like that Trio car company ap better than the broadmoor application. Have you seen that one? It does use a little animation for the drill down engine, but it's got a great examples of both the select box component, calendar component and the tree component. -mk -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 12:00 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR I wouldn't expect many of the Flash SOTD's to not use animation to get recognized as cool. But even Pet Market's use of animation is more functional than eye candy. They move the images into different areas of the screen to make room for new info, not so much to make the app attractive. If they didn't move them, the app couldn't do its job. And one of the main apps that is used to promote Flash as a tool instead of cool has no animation at all... The Broadmoor.com Online Reservation System. No amination at all, but a great piece of programming. Instead of 5 or more drill-down pages everything from start to finish on one page...brilliant! That's what I'm talking about...it's not so cool to look at but it is extremely cool to use! Rick -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 11:25 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR Oh and to add...you have a look at all the examples and SOTD etc.. and you see how many are cool, and have aninamation etc (I woudl say 100%) this is where the npower lies, but not everyone has this power.. funky and cool sells apps, there is nothing wrong with that, but on a whole; its beyond the reach of even the advanced CF'er with jackshit Flash skills (AS/Anim etc..) maybe I will take a trip to Degobah and see what I can learn.. -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 16:19 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR Neil, do you see any advantage to one-page data presentation and maintenance interfaces as opposed to multiple-page interfaces? Rick -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:57 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may just be a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and not HTML doesnt make sense... -Original Message- From: Mike Chambers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 15:35 To: CF-Talk Subject: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) I like Flash, dont get me wrong, but if all you are doing it linking to a DB for a static form or grid etc, then you may as well use HTML and no I am not anti Flash Remoting - far from it, I just dont see the business benefit (development time = cost) of using say Flash for things which could be developed in normal HTML. If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction, then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely, the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update the data view (or to submit data, etc). btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the server. What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of Participants' (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running. For what its worth, here is my workflow. 1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components. 2. send it to a designer to make it look pretty. btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a bunch of code that maintains client state across page views. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR
I am wrapping an article on just this for next months CFDJ. Also, there will be lots of this type of stuff covered at DevCon next month. --- Ben -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 1:06 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR Wish I could figure out how to do that... :o( I'm still trying... Rick -Original Message- From: Ben Forta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 11:38 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR Actually, I think it makes a lot of sense. I just needed a form with side by side list boxes, make a selection in one and the second is populated with selections that change based on what was selected in the first. Try doing that simply and easily in HTML (without screen refreshes). Flash, ColdFusion CFCs, and Flash Remoting make it a no brainer. Did I use animation? Nope. Did I need the timeline? Nope. In fact, I don't even have it open - I used a single frame and a single layer. There is legitimate use for Flash beyond animation. --- Ben -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:57 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may just be a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and not HTML doesnt make sense... -Original Message- From: Mike Chambers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 15:35 To: CF-Talk Subject: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) I like Flash, dont get me wrong, but if all you are doing it linking to a DB for a static form or grid etc, then you may as well use HTML and no I am not anti Flash Remoting - far from it, I just dont see the business benefit (development time = cost) of using say Flash for things which could be developed in normal HTML. If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction, then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely, the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update the data view (or to submit data, etc). btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the server. What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of Participants' (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running. For what its worth, here is my workflow. 1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components. 2. send it to a designer to make it look pretty. btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a bunch of code that maintains client state across page views. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR
i think this is where our disconnect is. I don't see Flash as just an animation tool. I also see it as a development tool to create rich user interfaces, which do not necessarily have to include animation. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:57 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR Importance: High so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may just be a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and not HTML doesnt make sense... __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR
i agree. I was thinking more of static views of data. If you need to sort and filter that data, then there are advantages to using flash. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Raymond Camden [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:41 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR Importance: High If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction, then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely, the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update the data view (or to submit data, etc). I disagree. Things like the datasheet component are very useful for displaying data. I think any case where you have a large or complex amount of data to display could use Flash to make the UI easier to handle. Of course, you may have meant interaction to mean sorting or filtering of some kind. I took interaction to mean editing. -ray __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR
Hi, Mark. No, I haven't downloaded and viewed that app, yet. I plan to, and will. Hopefully I can learn something from it. At least it'll probably inspire me to keep struggling! Thanks for the tip! Rick -Original Message- From: Mark A. Kruger - CFG [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 1:02 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR Rick, I like that Trio car company ap better than the broadmoor application. Have you seen that one? It does use a little animation for the drill down engine, but it's got a great examples of both the select box component, calendar component and the tree component. -mk -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 12:00 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR I wouldn't expect many of the Flash SOTD's to not use animation to get recognized as cool. But even Pet Market's use of animation is more functional than eye candy. They move the images into different areas of the screen to make room for new info, not so much to make the app attractive. If they didn't move them, the app couldn't do its job. And one of the main apps that is used to promote Flash as a tool instead of cool has no animation at all... The Broadmoor.com Online Reservation System. No amination at all, but a great piece of programming. Instead of 5 or more drill-down pages everything from start to finish on one page...brilliant! That's what I'm talking about...it's not so cool to look at but it is extremely cool to use! Rick -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 11:25 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR Oh and to add...you have a look at all the examples and SOTD etc.. and you see how many are cool, and have aninamation etc (I woudl say 100%) this is where the npower lies, but not everyone has this power.. funky and cool sells apps, there is nothing wrong with that, but on a whole; its beyond the reach of even the advanced CF'er with jackshit Flash skills (AS/Anim etc..) maybe I will take a trip to Degobah and see what I can learn.. -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 16:19 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR Neil, do you see any advantage to one-page data presentation and maintenance interfaces as opposed to multiple-page interfaces? Rick -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:57 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may just be a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and not HTML doesnt make sense... -Original Message- From: Mike Chambers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 15:35 To: CF-Talk Subject: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) I like Flash, dont get me wrong, but if all you are doing it linking to a DB for a static form or grid etc, then you may as well use HTML and no I am not anti Flash Remoting - far from it, I just dont see the business benefit (development time = cost) of using say Flash for things which could be developed in normal HTML. If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction, then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely, the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update the data view (or to submit data, etc). btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the server. What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of Participants' (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running. For what its worth, here is my workflow. 1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components. 2. send it to a designer to make it look pretty. btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a bunch of code that maintains client state across page views. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Get
RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR
Rick, well, we have ton of examples (on DesDev and the DRK) but I believe that you said you do not like to learn via examples. We also have a lot of tutorials on examples on desdev: http://www.macromedia.com/desdev/mx/flash/ http://www.macromedia.com/desdev/mx/coldfusion/ here is what i would suggest: 1. forget flash is frame based. (i usually only ever use 1 frame). 2. think of ActionScript as JavaScript. 3. start simple. create a simple form in flash that submits data to CF, and then has CF return data to flash. 4. ask questions. the flash community is huge and very helpful. other than that, we have heard the input from you and other developers and are aiming to provide more tutorials on getting started with flash / actionscript. are there any particular areas you would like covered? mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 11:09 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR Importance: High Hi, Mike. Your work sounds exactly like what I'm trying to make happen. Any resources you would point me to, to get an Intermediate CF coder familiar enough with Flash Remoting, especially ActionScript, to create some one-page apps? Rick -Original Message- From: Mike Chambers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:35 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) I like Flash, dont get me wrong, but if all you are doing it linking to a DB for a static form or grid etc, then you may as well use HTML and no I am not anti Flash Remoting - far from it, I just dont see the business benefit (development time = cost) of using say Flash for things which could be developed in normal HTML. If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction, then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely, the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update the data view (or to submit data, etc). btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the server. What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of Participants' (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running. For what its worth, here is my workflow. 1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components. 2. send it to a designer to make it look pretty. btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a bunch of code that maintains client state across page views. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR
Got any scholarships, for independent developers? ;o) Rick -Original Message- From: Ben Forta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 12:59 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR I am wrapping an article on just this for next months CFDJ. Also, there will be lots of this type of stuff covered at DevCon next month. --- Ben -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 1:06 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR Wish I could figure out how to do that... :o( I'm still trying... Rick -Original Message- From: Ben Forta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 11:38 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR Actually, I think it makes a lot of sense. I just needed a form with side by side list boxes, make a selection in one and the second is populated with selections that change based on what was selected in the first. Try doing that simply and easily in HTML (without screen refreshes). Flash, ColdFusion CFCs, and Flash Remoting make it a no brainer. Did I use animation? Nope. Did I need the timeline? Nope. In fact, I don't even have it open - I used a single frame and a single layer. There is legitimate use for Flash beyond animation. --- Ben -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:57 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may just be a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and not HTML doesnt make sense... -Original Message- From: Mike Chambers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 15:35 To: CF-Talk Subject: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) I like Flash, dont get me wrong, but if all you are doing it linking to a DB for a static form or grid etc, then you may as well use HTML and no I am not anti Flash Remoting - far from it, I just dont see the business benefit (development time = cost) of using say Flash for things which could be developed in normal HTML. If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction, then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely, the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update the data view (or to submit data, etc). btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the server. What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of Participants' (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running. For what its worth, here is my workflow. 1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components. 2. send it to a designer to make it look pretty. btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a bunch of code that maintains client state across page views. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR
Thanks, Mike. I'll check out more of the DesDev and the DRK stuff... The Flash interface doesn't bother me, I do timeline based video editing all the time, so I'm confortable with the timeline. The graphic design is very simple, too. It's the ActionScript that I can't deal with unless I start from the beginning. I have no experience with Javascript to draw on, either. I just need some good training wheels ActionScript/CF tutorials to get me started on just what you described in your message, then I can elaborate from there. I'm not interested, as so many have advised, at this point, in learning everything there is to know about ActionScript...I just want the minimum to work with CF for now. I'm still evaluating Flash as a tool, except that my trial has now expired... :o( One of the things that's confusing about how Flash handles data is how it receives it. Does it receive it as a set of variables or does each Result represent a separate variable from CF? I haven't figured out how Flash handles what it gets from CF. I see the code, but don't understand it... Rick -Original Message- From: Mike Chambers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 1:18 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR Rick, well, we have ton of examples (on DesDev and the DRK) but I believe that you said you do not like to learn via examples. We also have a lot of tutorials on examples on desdev: http://www.macromedia.com/desdev/mx/flash/ http://www.macromedia.com/desdev/mx/coldfusion/ here is what i would suggest: 1. forget flash is frame based. (i usually only ever use 1 frame). 2. think of ActionScript as JavaScript. 3. start simple. create a simple form in flash that submits data to CF, and then has CF return data to flash. 4. ask questions. the flash community is huge and very helpful. other than that, we have heard the input from you and other developers and are aiming to provide more tutorials on getting started with flash / actionscript. are there any particular areas you would like covered? mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 11:09 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR Importance: High Hi, Mike. Your work sounds exactly like what I'm trying to make happen. Any resources you would point me to, to get an Intermediate CF coder familiar enough with Flash Remoting, especially ActionScript, to create some one-page apps? Rick -Original Message- From: Mike Chambers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:35 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) I like Flash, dont get me wrong, but if all you are doing it linking to a DB for a static form or grid etc, then you may as well use HTML and no I am not anti Flash Remoting - far from it, I just dont see the business benefit (development time = cost) of using say Flash for things which could be developed in normal HTML. If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction, then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely, the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update the data view (or to submit data, etc). btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the server. What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of Participants' (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running. For what its worth, here is my workflow. 1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components. 2. send it to a designer to make it look pretty. btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a bunch of code that maintains client state across page views. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
Re: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR
I am seeing a lot of *FLASH* talk on here.. its kinda disturbing... was wondering if Michael can move all the FLASH talk to another discussion Group (CF-TALK-FLASH) or something like that. Joe - Original Message - From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: CF-Talk [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 12:01 PM Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR OK then, will I get a super discount on Flash from MM - say 98% as I am only going to use 2% of its features? :-) nah, didnt think so.. N -Original Message- From: Ben Forta [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 16:38 To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR Actually, I think it makes a lot of sense. I just needed a form with side by side list boxes, make a selection in one and the second is populated with selections that change based on what was selected in the first. Try doing that simply and easily in HTML (without screen refreshes). Flash, ColdFusion CFCs, and Flash Remoting make it a no brainer. Did I use animation? Nope. Did I need the timeline? Nope. In fact, I don't even have it open - I used a single frame and a single layer. There is legitimate use for Flash beyond animation. --- Ben -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:57 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may just be a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and not HTML doesnt make sense... -Original Message- From: Mike Chambers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 15:35 To: CF-Talk Subject: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) I like Flash, dont get me wrong, but if all you are doing it linking to a DB for a static form or grid etc, then you may as well use HTML and no I am not anti Flash Remoting - far from it, I just dont see the business benefit (development time = cost) of using say Flash for things which could be developed in normal HTML. If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction, then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely, the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update the data view (or to submit data, etc). btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the server. What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of Participants' (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running. For what its worth, here is my workflow. 1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components. 2. send it to a designer to make it look pretty. btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a bunch of code that maintains client state across page views. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR
-Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] One of the things that's confusing about how Flash handles data is how it receives it. Does it receive it as a set of variables or does each Result represent a separate variable from CF? I haven't figured out how Flash handles what it gets from CF. I see the code, but don't understand it... it depends on the code. If you like, you can send me the code snippet offline and i can answer your question. basically, though, when using Flash remoting you can call ColdFusion components from Flash as if they were local ActionScript methods. Flash will receive whatever the component returns (with the result converted into an ActionScript data type). each Result represents the data returned from calling a method in a ColdFusion component. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Signup for the Fusion Authority news alert and keep up with the latest news in ColdFusion and related topics. http://www.fusionauthority.com/signup.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR
Thanks, Mike. I can tell I've got a lot to learn... Would you be interested in writing an example of code here that shows how a piece of data, say a name is queried from CF, sent to Flash, the code that Flash uses to receive it and translates it into an ActionScript datatype? Just so I can see one example of everything working together? It looks like we've got three things going: a .cfm file, a .cfc file, and the ActionScript page. I've seen the coded examples, and the CF makes sense, but the ActionScript...hmmm. It's just a lack of knowledge in how the AS works in conjunction with Flash Remoting and CF. If there's already an example of this somewhere, just point me to it, or if this takes too much time, just let me know. I'll completely understand... Rick -Original Message- From: Mike Chambers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 2:39 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR -Original Message- From: Rick Faircloth [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] One of the things that's confusing about how Flash handles data is how it receives it. Does it receive it as a set of variables or does each Result represent a separate variable from CF? I haven't figured out how Flash handles what it gets from CF. I see the code, but don't understand it... it depends on the code. If you like, you can send me the code snippet offline and i can answer your question. basically, though, when using Flash remoting you can call ColdFusion components from Flash as if they were local ActionScript methods. Flash will receive whatever the component returns (with the result converted into an ActionScript data type). each Result represents the data returned from calling a method in a ColdFusion component. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Get the mailserver that powers this list at http://www.coolfusion.com FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR
YES, that is a great analogy. Using flash to present data IS like using IE for viewing Text Documents (sorta), but what's wrong with that? Viewing remote txt documents in IE is in no way inferior to notepad; in fact, I think it's better because you don't need to launch another application, and there are so many other things IE can do (as can Flash). Do you use IE for FTP? I think it is the best (and free-est) FTP Client I have ever used! What about IE for local folder browsing; or other web protocols? Like Flash, IE can be used for many things (and many out of the scope of what it is famous for). Neil, I think you need to broaden your thinking and see the big picture. These people are not just praising Flash because they work for Macromedia (although 3 of them do), but because of all of its powers. Flash will not redefine the possibilities of what can be done on the web; It will simply provide you a with the toolset to do it faster, cheaper, cleaner, and (most importantly) you will only need to do it ONCE for each release. IGOR ILYINSKY CREDIT|FIRST SUISSE|BOSTON GLOBAL WEB SERVICES -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Monday, September 30, 2002 10:57 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course t o be offered by MACR so you are using an animation tool and doing no an animation? I may just be a tad blinkered, but its like using IE to browser text files and not HTML doesnt make sense... -Original Message- From: Mike Chambers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 30 September 2002 15:35 To: CF-Talk Subject: Flash for data views : WAS Ben's J2EE Book, now new course to be offered by MACR -Original Message- From: Robertson-Ravo, Neil (REC) I like Flash, dont get me wrong, but if all you are doing it linking to a DB for a static form or grid etc, then you may as well use HTML and no I am not anti Flash Remoting - far from it, I just dont see the business benefit (development time = cost) of using say Flash for things which could be developed in normal HTML. If all you are doing is presenting data to the user with no interaction, then there is not much advantage to using Flash. However, if the users interacts with that data in any way, then there are advantages. Namely, the fact that the entire page will not need to be refreshed to update the data view (or to submit data, etc). btw, that workflow requires no animation. I have been working with Flash for about 4 years now, and I dont think i have done any animation for about 2 years. All of my Flash applications consists of one Frame which a bunch of components, and data going back and forth from Flash and the server. What I am driving at is this : there is no real 'Spectrum of Participants' (sorry Ray) of how to get a movie up and running. For what its worth, here is my workflow. 1. create functionality of movie using ActionScript and components. 2. send it to a designer to make it look pretty. btw, as far as time and costs, in a lot of cases i think the developing in Flash is easier / faster than in HTML since I don't have to write a bunch of code that maintains client state across page views. mike chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Structure your ColdFusion code with Fusebox. Get the official book at http://www.fusionauthority.com/bkinfo.cfm FAQ: http://www.thenetprofits.co.uk/coldfusion/faq Archives: http://www.mail-archive.com/cf-talk@houseoffusion.com/ Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/index.cfm?sidebar=lists
