Re: Fusebox seemingly clearing contents of session variables on relocation
Cool beans. Always glad to help. Thanks for reporting back. :-) ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:342198 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Fusebox seemingly clearing contents of session variables on relocation
Thanks Matt your suggestion worked. " " Odd this is the first time I've encountered this specific behaviour in Coldfusion. Thanks a byunch was spinning my wheels on this. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:342190 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Fusebox seemingly clearing contents of session variables on relocation
Hi guys, just came in this morning. thanks for the responses will try out the suggested code and get back to you. I'm on CF9/Fusebox 5.5 ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:342189 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Fusebox seemingly clearing contents of session variables on relocation
On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 8:58 PM, Matt Quackenbush wrote: > I have two different CF9 installations that behave the way I described. Odd. I couldn't repro on CF9.0.1 locally. Do you have a small test case that shows form scope behaving like that for you? I'd love to try it on my setup. Thanx! -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/ An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive." -- Margaret Atwood ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:342187 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Fusebox seemingly clearing contents of session variables on relocation
I have two different CF9 installations that behave the way I described. It actually caught me out on a quickie application I did for someone awhile back, because I did not expect that behavior. But that's exactly what it does on two different installations. ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:342186 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Fusebox seemingly clearing contents of session variables on relocation
On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 7:59 PM, Sean Corfield wrote: > I tried it on Railo and discovered that the form scope is somehow > reused across multiple requests - so on Railo, your logic would be > correct. That's interesting and I'll have to take that up with > engineering to find out why / how it's different. Some experimentation yields the answer. In ACF, form is a fairly regular struct object that is created and populated afresh on each request with whatever is posted into that request. In Railo, form is a smart object that behaves like a proxy to the current request's form data so, whilst the contents of the form scope are populated afresh on each request, the "form scope" itself is a proxy to that data rather than actually containing it. -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/ An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive." -- Margaret Atwood ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:342185 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Fusebox seemingly clearing contents of session variables on relocation
On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 9:36 AM, Matt Quackenbush wrote: > Dave, as you well know I usually agree with you. However, in this case, I > do not agree with you at all. Why? Because you are 100% wrong in your > statement. What I showed is **exactly** how references work. Well, yes, your code was about references but unfortunately form scope is created anew on each request in ACF so whilst > leaves session.myvariable pointing at a struct (that was the form scope on that request), by the time you do this: > The name form is bound to a new struct and the original session.myvariable is unchanged. I tried it on Railo and discovered that the form scope is somehow reused across multiple requests - so on Railo, your logic would be correct. That's interesting and I'll have to take that up with engineering to find out why / how it's different. Which begs the question of the Original Poster: Don / Dan - are you running on ACF or Railo? -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/ An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive." -- Margaret At ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:342184 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Fusebox seemingly clearing contents of session variables on relocation
On Sun, Feb 13, 2011 at 11:36 AM, Matt Quackenbush wrote: > The only way to pass a structure in CF by reference is by using > duplicate(). > Oops. That is suppose to say The only way to pass a structure in CF by value is by using duplicate(). ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:342175 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Fusebox seemingly clearing contents of session variables on relocation
Dave, as you well know I usually agree with you. However, in this case, I
do not agree with you at all. Why? Because you are 100% wrong in your
statement. What I showed is **exactly** how references work.
1) If you create a _reference_ to something as my code example did...
2) and then you change the original...
3) the reference **will** be updated to match the value to which it is
pointing at.
In ColdFusion, structures are passed _by reference_ rather than _by value_.
The only way to pass a structure in CF by reference is by using
duplicate(). Can it be an expensive operation? Ayep. Is it necessary when
you want to pass by value rather than reference? Ayep.
The 'form' scope, like all others in CF, is a structure. Therefore the
rules about reference and value apply to it just as though you had created
the structure yourself with structNew().
Test the code I wrote. You'll see that I am right.
Now then, if you are setting your session values like so...
session.myvariable = {};
for ( key IN form )
{
session.myvariable[key] = form[key];
}
... then you are creating brand new variables that will are _value_ based
rather than simply a reference to the form scope. If this is what you are
doing, then, of course, changing the form scope (of form-scoped variables)
will have no bearing on the session variables you created.
HTH
~|
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Re: Fusebox seemingly clearing contents of session variables on relocation
> Presumably you are doing something like so... > > > > > I have not tested it, but I am guessing that you are "loosing" the session > variables because you are creating a _reference_ to the form scope. When > you redirect, the form scope is now empty, and therefore, any and all > references to it will be empty. To create a session variable that actually > holds the *value* (rather than the reference), use duplicate(). > > > This is not how references work. You can safely create a reference to the form (which is itself just a reference) and when the form goes out of scope, the reference you subsequently created will still be available. There's no need to use Duplicate here, and it's unnecessarily expensive. Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ http://training.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software is a Veteran-Owned Small Business (VOSB) on GSA Schedule, and provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers, online, or onsit ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:342173 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
Re: Fusebox seemingly clearing contents of session variables on relocation
Presumably you are doing something like so... I have not tested it, but I am guessing that you are "loosing" the session variables because you are creating a _reference_ to the form scope. When you redirect, the form scope is now empty, and therefore, any and all references to it will be empty. To create a session variable that actually holds the *value* (rather than the reference), use duplicate(). HTH ~| Order the Adobe Coldfusion Anthology now! http://www.amazon.com/Adobe-Coldfusion-Anthology/dp/1430272155/?tag=houseoffusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:342171 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/unsubscribe.cfm
RE: fusebox layout adding to csv?
What version of fusebox is it?
You should be able to swap or suppress the layout around the csv content.
-Original Message-
From: Glyn Jackson [mailto:glyn.jack...@newebia.co.uk]
Sent: Friday, December 04, 2009 9:12 AM
To: cf-talk
Subject: fusebox layout adding to csv?
Hi I have an old fusebox app i am working on. it outputs a csv file with
data however the html (layout) is also getting added to the csv? anyone know
why.
function cleanField(sField){
sField = (replace(sField,",",";","All"));
sField = (replace(sField,chr(13)&chr(10),";","All"));
sField = (replace(sField,chr(13),";","All"));
sField = (replace(sField,chr(10),";","All"));
sField = (replace(sField,";;",";","All"));
return sField;
}
#variables.colName#=#variables.colVal#,
#csv_TextBuffer.toString()#
~|
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Re: Fusebox book?
24th of this month is a class "Intro to Fusebox" and next month is "Intermediate Fusebox 5" http://teratech.com/go/training/class-schedule?trainingaction=detail&TID=358 $400 class and a $300 plane ticket... I'm sure you'll make up that $700 in productivity in the next few months. Greg Luce Luce Consulting Services, Inc. www.luceconsulting.net (863) 273-0289 On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 7:28 PM, John M Bliss wrote: > > SEE thread from earlier today for my 2 cents: > > http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58671#318786 > > On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 6:23 PM, Joe wrote: > > > > > I've been asked to start on a new project from the ground up and I'm > > interested in using FB55 for this project. I haven't been able to find > any > > good tutorials on it and I've spent the last cpl of weeks trying to > reverse > > engineer the Cat Club samples on the Fusebox site with limited success. > > Can > > anyone recommend any online resources that they've used previously? I'm > > considering buying the following book: > > > > http://www.cafepress.com/protonarts.297794563 > > > > Any opinions? > > > > tia, > > > > - Joe > > > > > > > > ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:318812 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Fusebox book?
SEE thread from earlier today for my 2 cents: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/thread.cfm/threadid:58671#318786 On Tue, Feb 3, 2009 at 6:23 PM, Joe wrote: > > I've been asked to start on a new project from the ground up and I'm > interested in using FB55 for this project. I haven't been able to find any > good tutorials on it and I've spent the last cpl of weeks trying to reverse > engineer the Cat Club samples on the Fusebox site with limited success. > Can > anyone recommend any online resources that they've used previously? I'm > considering buying the following book: > > http://www.cafepress.com/protonarts.297794563 > > Any opinions? > > tia, > > - Joe > > > ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;207172674;29440083;f Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/message.cfm/messageid:318804 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/cf-talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: fusebox vs model glue
hi, apologies for the delayed thanks! - but thanks very much there are some excellent points here and really made me understand. seeing as we are doing everything to understand OO and change our applications into OO it sounds like we should stick with it - it is really helping us understand it further thanks again for your comments > hi > > we have just reviewed model glue, and have also looked into fusebox > very briefly > > is fusebox similiar to model glue? and if so is it a case of using one > or the other? and if so then what are your feelings on which one is > better? > > thanks for your help > > richard ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;203748912;27390454;j Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:312070 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: TDD vs. Big Ball of Mud (was Re: fusebox vs model glue)
I don't know anyone who thinks that TDD is the be-all-end-all of software development. The reality is that it does offer some very tangible benefits: - Everyone writes some kind of test. It might be a scribble pad that you run to make sure something works. It might be that you write code and then run the application and try to confirm that the code does what it should. Unit testing simply formalizes this and makes it a process that can be easily documented and repeated. - Writing a test first does help you determine the design of the code you're going to write. If you're writing a new block of code or a new method, writing the test helps you look at it from an API perspective: What do I have to pass in? What do I expect to get back? What can go wrong? - In a dynamic language like ColdFusion, unit tests pretty quickly become essential. Since we have no compiler, we can't catch any errors until runtime. And since values can be nearly any type, without tests that enforce input and output requirements it is extremely easy to write code that seems to work fine on the surface, or at least doesn't throw an error when you run it. It might be much later that something goes wrong. Tests help reduce the likelihood of this. - When a bug is found, if you add it to the test you make it far more unlikely that that bug can reappear. - Perhaps most importantly, creating and maintaining a suite of unit tests makes ongoing development much, much easier. If you make a change, it is incredibly useful to be able to run all of your tests and be fairly confident that you didn't break something else. Of course this isn't a guarantee, but it is vastly more reassuring than having no tests at all. Now, should TDD give one complete confidence? Of course not. But it offers a lot of benefits anyway, and it offers far more confidence than not having any tests. It is for these reasons (which I would call very pragmatic reasons) that I would recommend that everyone follow TDD. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;203748912;27390454;j Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:312024 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: TDD vs. Big Ball of Mud (was Re: fusebox vs model glue)
Well, it's kind of cool that cf-talk is having the TDD argument. Don't really mind how it turns out. Makes me feel good about being a CF programmer. @Bill, Thanks for the links. The thing that intrigues me about a lot of the TDD debate, including these articles you point to, is that most of the anti-TDD side of the argument ends up espousing pretty much all of the principles of TDD in the very act of trying to refute it. So a lot of the debate is actually about people reacting to what they see as extremism and overly prescriptive statements. IMHO, there's nothing wrong with strongly stating a principle - everyone knows that principles get modified in application - but it's true that some people get way too personal about it. The rest of the debate is along the lines of "I blindly followed the letter of the TDD law while ignoring the principles and it didn't work for me - therefore TDD is flawed." The poster then lays out how they manage to apply all the principles of TDD in some other way that is superficially different from "cookbook" TDD. So leaving those two smokescreens aside, I have yet to see anyone even attempt to seriously contradict the principles of TDD - but I'm still looking! Jaime > -Original Message- > From: Bill Shelton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, 4 September 2008 1:59 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: TDD vs. Big Ball of Mud (was Re: fusebox vs model glue) > > I'm not going to get into the discussion of whether or not TDD is good, > bad, or should be done lest you are just stupid and ugly. Anytime, or > anyway, you think hard about the software you deliver, it's is going to be > better than if you just bang it out with one eye open and hope no one sees > it's shortcomings. TDD kind of forces you to open both eyes. TDD seems to > work for some and others it does not - why is that? > > This one has been floating around this year, and with good cause: "The > Flawed Theory Behind Unit Testing" - > http://michaelfeathers.typepad.com/michael_feathers_blog/2008/06/the- > flawed-theo.html > > > Here's some other really interesting debates on TDD: > > Cedric Beust wrote the TestNG framework, with others, and though a total > hard-core tester, openly criticizes TDD: > http://beust.com/weblog/archives/000477.html > > "Uncle" Bob Martin has some good responses to Cedric as well as some other > good points: http://butunclebob.com/ArticleS.UncleBob > > > I hope I have few illusions about the quality of my software. Today, I > truly believe my delivered software is only as good as the tests that have > executed it. In other words, the number of defects is directly > proportionals to how thoroughly it's been tested - either manually or > through automation. > > best, > bill > > > > > >> It's actually switching over, to where the tests come first, that's > >> the hard part, for me. Due to a lot of the reasons listed in that > >> article about big balls of mud. :] > > > >I'm not entirely convinced that writing the test before writing the code > >is the best strategy... or at least that it's the best strategy for > >everyone. Development work by its nature means doing things that (we > >hope anyway) haven't been done before. And while you may have some ideas > >about how to accomplish those things ahead of time, the human brain is > >really just not equipped to map out large numbers of variables > >accurately in advance. > > > > snip ... > > >-- > >s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch > > isn't it time for a change? > > ph: 781.769.0723 > > > >http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog > > ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;203748912;27390454;j Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:312012 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: TDD vs. Big Ball of Mud (was Re: fusebox vs model glue)
I'm not going to get into the discussion of whether or not TDD is good, bad, or should be done lest you are just stupid and ugly. Anytime, or anyway, you think hard about the software you deliver, it's is going to be better than if you just bang it out with one eye open and hope no one sees it's shortcomings. TDD kind of forces you to open both eyes. TDD seems to work for some and others it does not - why is that? This one has been floating around this year, and with good cause: "The Flawed Theory Behind Unit Testing" -http://michaelfeathers.typepad.com/michael_feathers_blog/2008/06/the-flawed-theo.html Here's some other really interesting debates on TDD: Cedric Beust wrote the TestNG framework, with others, and though a total hard-core tester, openly criticizes TDD: http://beust.com/weblog/archives/000477.html "Uncle" Bob Martin has some good responses to Cedric as well as some other good points: http://butunclebob.com/ArticleS.UncleBob I hope I have few illusions about the quality of my software. Today, I truly believe my delivered software is only as good as the tests that have executed it. In other words, the number of defects is directly proportionals to how thoroughly it's been tested - either manually or through automation. best, bill >> It's actually switching over, to where the tests come first, that's >> the hard part, for me. Due to a lot of the reasons listed in that >> article about big balls of mud. :] > >I'm not entirely convinced that writing the test before writing the code >is the best strategy... or at least that it's the best strategy for >everyone. Development work by its nature means doing things that (we >hope anyway) haven't been done before. And while you may have some ideas >about how to accomplish those things ahead of time, the human brain is >really just not equipped to map out large numbers of variables >accurately in advance. > snip ... >-- >s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch > isn't it time for a change? > ph: 781.769.0723 > >http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;203748912;27390454;j Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:311992 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: TDD vs. Big Ball of Mud (was Re: fusebox vs model glue)
I like that you've been thinking about thinking while writing your framework, Isaac. I dig that. :-) The way I'm currently tackling the tests, is to try to work them into my routine. That hard part is, as been mentioned, not having to go back a lot to keep it all in sync. I wonder if this ties into keeping branches synced up with trunk and whatnot with SVN... heh. Somehow similar... Anyways, where I'd, before, just keep doing stuff in a scribble file, sorta testing, building, testing (but not saving any tests), I now try to save the tests, sorta. It is hard to write tests that are easy to refactor, but it's getting easier as time goes by. There are sweeping changes sometimes, and I'm a sweeping changer, for all my not much changing... but it really does save time having those old tests, of the various bits. If just in having that history/memory refresher... I'm still working on the testing of the behaviors, I guess, because I'm quite often including stuff in later tests that are tested themselves, but should be stubs (instead of the real things), just to verify the behavior, but that's still sorta beyond me. Basically I can see cascading fails, where I don't think you'd have that with stubs and whatnot. It still works, but I could see how it would work better to keep it strictly to interactions, vs. creating and whatnot. If that makes sense. Probably didn't explain it too clear since I'm still twirling the ideas around in my head, sorta. I get the failure aspect of overthinking, or overengineering, and I battle those twin demons (or maybe it's just one demon with two heads), and other, more Rube Goldberg-ish impulses, but I have actually seen some pretty good return on tests, even with poor style, as it were. What sells me, is projects like the javascript toolkit "dojo". That thing is verbose, but put together really well. It's a snap to read the sources, and there are some good standards, and *various* types of tests, from your more literal "it passed!" to your, "here a few random examples". I've had really good luck refactoring and keeping up-to date with it, and I attribute the majority there to well written code. It has been really interesting to watch it evolve. Same with projects like Eclipse and whatnot. Apache, hell, it's been ages. I think that part of the reason open source is kicking ass, is because it's really tackled the problems of the future, you know? There's a lot of history, too, that we can learn from, all the various flavors of OSes.. Mozilla... from sources open to closed to a mix of the two... but, heh, the battle of big balls of mud... Maybe it's fundamental. Part of nature. Something about entropy or whatnot, ya know? Chaos and order, a spinning yin-yang of seasons. :] Balance. I'm trying to hold it, but it still sorta feels like jumping from one side to the other, versus just sorta maintaining. Not exactly smooth... but not too rough. Hmmm... maybe it will be easier if I go faster! HaHA! -- There is no such thing as a 'self-made' man. We are made up of thousands of others. George Matthew Adams ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;203748912;27390454;j Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:311897 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: fusebox vs model glue
They all have their ups and downs, I would imagine. I can vouch for the fact that well-written MG apps, as I assume is the same for the other frameworks, are pretty easy to debug and whatnot. Poorly written, however, sucks donkey balls. And I've written some code that deserves to be flushed. I'd love to see it do that little circle... well, guess it's more of a spiral... :-) Seems like that's just how it goes. A lot depends on your background, strengths, weakness, etc., as to which you'd be able to get up to speed with faster. And there are some cool choices out there. It ain't just FB and MG, and yes, it all takes time, but ideas can be worth, like, millions-- and everyone seems to say that trying new things gives them "new" ideas. I know, I know... time is money, and there is a bottom line, and that cold hard logic we all must at least pay some sort of tribute to... But there's more to it than just the... machine mentality, or whatever. Time is funky-- sometimes a little investment frees up more than you'd think, later on... whatever you choose to invest in.. or maybe it's sorta like art, and some kinds are more appealing, just cause. Eh, I'm not really sure where I'm going with this. Heh. It can all be crap, and it can all be roses, and somehow there's a relation? Bah. :-) :D -- There is no such thing as a 'self-made' man. We are made up of thousands of others. George Matthew Adams On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 2:59 PM, Eric Roberts wrote: > Which I have run into with MG...most of what we are doing is made overly > complex by using MG, which in turns made it overly difficult to debug when > we had probs. I can see where MG would be very useful for a very complex > application...but I don't think it is the solution for everyone. I > personally prefer the ease of use and flow of FB (or more specifically, my > bastardized version of FB ;-) which based on a combination of my personal > coding style that is very close to a fusebox-esque style and a version that > we were forced to use due to draconian server restrictions at > AT&T ). > > Eric ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;203748912;27390454;j Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:311896 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: TDD vs. Big Ball of Mud (was Re: fusebox vs model glue)
> Whoa, hold it right there. Show me the TDD advocate who promotes > writing all tests before writing code and I'll personally have their > card revoked! TDD means write a test, then write some code, then write > another testby the time you write your last test, you've written > all your code bar that last function. You will actually rewrite less > of your stuff than otherwise, because writing tests first really > brings a poorly factored design into the spotlight much earlier than > would otherwise happen. That's probably true some of the time... I'm not necessarily convinced it's true most of the time... And I'm going to delve a bit into the land of personal anecdote (yeah yeah) to comment on this one here, rather than citing other cognitive studies. My own experience at various companies has been that "big picture" changes to the system often have to be made mid-project. It seems to happen because in the initial planning stages there's a certain kind of inherent myopia that we all seem to fall prey to where we're focusing on getting the design fleshed out for a small part of the system and because we're focused on that small "unit" we don't notice a larger interoperability issue. On my last project we had clients who were probably fairly typical in wanting the application to read their minds. (And I'll be the first to say I love really good intuitive designs that seem like they're actually doing that.) Except on this project mind reading had been promised up front. So we've got this application with a multi-page form and two things are demanded. 1) never under any circumstances should the application ever forget anything that a person has typed into any field, even if they abandon that page of the form 2) never under any circumstances should the application ever display information in a form field that the user doesn't want in that field. So right off the bat, if the user changes their mind, hits back then goes forward again, the system is supposed to magically know that they changed their mind. I'm not just griping to gripe, there's a point to this. :) So this multi-page form actually has a 2nd multi-page form embedded in the middle of it. It's a custom project management app and each project has phases. Up to this point, the user enters the info on a particular page, that gets saved to the database (if valid) before they go back to a previous tab or before they go forward to the next tab. In a normal, intelligent design you would think the name of the phase should be somewhere on the first page of the multi-page form to enter phases, so that, if nothing else there is at least a label to identify it. Not so. It's part of the spec that the name of the phase is entered on page 2. And I'm told in no uncertain terms that this decision is from the client and therefore set in stone. It's also part of the spec that they should be able to go "back" to previous pages of the form and then return and as previously mentioned, the application should never ever forget anything under any circumstances... So since the data on page 1 of the form is saved to the database and has no label, I add the label "unnamed" when they're looking at the list of phases to indicate that a particular phase was abandoned halfway. This maintains 1) remembering the information they entered and 2) gives them the opportunity to delete the item if they really had decided they didn't want it. Then the problem -- "it should never say 'unnamed' in the list of phases... if they change their mind about entering a phase, it should just throw it away"... ummm... this violates the first few principles of the design. That it should always remember everything and it should allow them to go "back" to previous pages in the form without forgetting. And of course nobody noticed this major design flaw because everyone was focused on small units of the design and didn't notice the big picture. We went round and round trying to get the thing settled. And had I written behavioral tests for these things I'm sure a lot of them would have had to be rewritten because of mid-project design changes that were a result of thinking about things as isolated "units" in the early part of the design. (Which seems to catch us all off-guard, myself included.) Now I'm not necessarily saying that's the majority of projects or even that it's the way things should be. It's just been my experience that these kinds of things happen ... well they've happened to just about every project I can remember having worked on... More of the ubiquitous forces behind that "big ball of mud" design pattern that's so popular. When I worked for SiteManageware in Ft Lauderdale we were working on an overhaul of the pricing system and I think we ended up essentially going back to scratch on the technique two or three times. I don't even necessarily mind the idea of "thinking outloud into a test case"... but to be the devil's advocate, I'm not convinced it results
Re: TDD vs. Big Ball of Mud (was Re: fusebox vs model glue)
> TDD advocate here... I really think folks are going into TDD with > this mindset that it's just write a test before you write code (so yes > your are somewhat right). Doing this is going to result in frustration > and an eventual failure and abandonment of TDD. Focusing on just > writing a test is really the wrong approach The fact is some > very smart folks have realized TDD was a horrible name for a great > idea as it put us into this mind set of testing a unit. This is > why many folks (mostly outside of the CF community) are "evolving" TDD > into BDD (behaviour driven development). I could ramble on more > probably but I think I've said enough for now, maybe this deserves a > blog post? Thanks Adam, I'd be interested in reading more about that. :) I hadn't heard about the shift in thinking from TDD to BDD. There's an old apocryphal story I like about how language helps to shape thought. The story goes that the people in a particular area (let's say it was an island) were having a problem in which people were falling into unexplained comas and they feared people were being burried alive. They wanted to resolve this problem, so they assigned the task of devising a solution to two teams and would then choose the best of the two. One team produced a solution that was complicated, time consuming, labor intensive, questionably effective and expensive. The other team produced a solution that was unquestionably fast, cheap and effective (you might call this an "elegant solution"). The complicated solution was to burry each person with a small amount of food and water and raise a pipe from the coffin up to ground level so that if the person woke from their coma they could call up to someone monitoring the grave sites and help would rush to pull them out. After a few days they could be reasonably assured the person had died and fill in the pipe. Problems involved rain flooding the coffin, etc. The question posed to the team who produced this solution: how to we keep from burrying people who are still alive? The "elegant" solution was to mount a 6-inch spike to the inside of the coffin lid at roughly chest-height. When you closed the lid of the coffin, you would remove all doubt that the person could still be alive. The question posed to the team who produced this solution: how to we ensure that everyone we bury is dead? I've been trying to come up with a good way of explaining a similar kind of shift in thinking with regard to the notion of a "front controller" and I'm not sure how well I've done in that regard. It's posted on the onTap framework wiki as "The Rear Controller and You". The basic premise of my calling this a new design pattern (as opposed to simply describing it as a sub-set of the front controller) is to flip the thinking involved in the "front controller" away from forcing everything to deal with the challenges of the front controller (the application says "I INSIST you speak to me THIS WAY") and instead allow the controller to do the work more seamlessly by saying something to the effect of "I don't know X but if you hum a few bars I can fake it". :P The system accomodates both the traditional front controller index.cfm?event=company.about style urls as well as more traditional /company/about.cfm style urls which makes it a trivial matter to move pages into or out of the framework without changing any existing URLs. For anyone interested in the Rear Controller design pattern, you can find more information here: http://ontap.wikispaces.com/The+Rear+Controller+and+You -- s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch isn't it time for a change? ph: 781.769.0723 http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;203748912;27390454;j Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:311888 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: TDD vs. Big Ball of Mud (was Re: fusebox vs model glue)
> -Original Message- > From: s. isaac dealey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Tuesday, 2 September 2008 3:06 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: TDD vs. Big Ball of Mud (was Re: fusebox vs model glue) > > And so it's an assumed that the TDD advocates who talk about writing all > your tests before writing your code will be overconfident about their > design. Whoa, hold it right there. Show me the TDD advocate who promotes writing all tests before writing code and I'll personally have their card revoked! TDD means write a test, then write some code, then write another testby the time you write your last test, you've written all your code bar that last function. You will actually rewrite less of your stuff than otherwise, because writing tests first really brings a poorly factored design into the spotlight much earlier than would otherwise happen. The assertion is that if you can't write a test you don't *have* a design, or indeed a clear intention. And if your tests are hard to write, it's because you have a bad design. So given all of this, it's hard to argue that the right thing to do in this situation is to go ahead and write some code anyway. "Thinking out loud" in code is fine, but thinking out loud into a test case is even better. @Adam: Agreed that "behaviour" is a better word. I also like the last "D" to stand for "design". "Test driven design" takes away some of the quality-control mindset that's introduced by the word "test". Jaime ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;203748912;27390454;j Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:311887 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: fusebox vs model glue
> Eric sometime we should talk about these draconian restrictions and > what you've had to do with Fusebox, drop me a line sometime. I imagine you were thinking something like I was... What was it in Fusebox (of all things) that would be anathema to the server managers at AT&T? FB's always struck me as being pretty non-invasive from the standpoint of server requirements, irrespective of the fact that it's generally not my tool of choice. -- s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch isn't it time for a change? ph: 781.769.0723 http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;203748912;27390454;j Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:311886 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: TDD vs. Big Ball of Mud (was Re: fusebox vs model glue)
TDD advocate here... I really think folks are going into TDD with this mindset that it's just write a test before you write code (so yes your are somewhat right). Doing this is going to result in frustration and an eventual failure and abandonment of TDD. Focusing on just writing a test is really the wrong approach, hell the fact you get some tests out of TDD is just a nicity. Use TDD or do not the value to me is the thought process involved this is the indispensable part of TDD. The problem comes in to the fact that how do I teach a group of people good TDD in a 1 hour (hell 2 hour) session at a conference? I am attempting it at bFusion, hopefully it will turn out well and I can take it on the road so to speak ;) Here's my short synopsis of how we stand with TDD: Proper TDD seeks to break down that 80% failure by focusing on putting more thought into your *design*. We can either write, rewrite and rewrite production code, or we can write and rewrite test cases until we are more confident with the design. Then we may only write and refactor production code once or twice. I'd much rather see that happen. The fact is some very smart folks have realized TDD was a horrible name for a great idea as it put us into this mind set of testing a unit. With this mindset we focus on asserting simple values and string, or looking at booleans of a unit. What the hell is a unit anyway? A CFC? A Method? The whole concept of a unit is based off its context. Really what TDD should be about is testing the behavior and (more importantly in many systems) the interaction of objects in the system. This is why many folks (mostly outside of the CF community) are "evolving" TDD into BDD (behaviour driven development). It's the same thing just worded differently. Instead of using a word like testing which someone assumes oh just write tests first, this name sort of smacks you in the face. FOCUS ON BEHAVIOUR, yet if you read up on BDD its all about validating your design (fancy way of saying test ;) ). I could ramble on more probably but I think I've said enough for now, maybe this deserves a blog post? Adam On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 1:05 PM, s. isaac dealey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > It's actually switching over, to where the tests come first, that's > > the hard part, for me. Due to a lot of the reasons listed in that > > article about big balls of mud. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;203748912;27390454;j Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:311882 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: fusebox vs model glue
Eric sometime we should talk about these draconian restrictions and what you've had to do with Fusebox, drop me a line sometime. Adam On Mon, Sep 1, 2008 at 4:59 PM, Eric Roberts < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Which I have run into with MG...most of what we are doing is made > overly > complex by using MG, which in turns made it overly difficult to debug when > we had probs. I can see where MG would be very useful for a very complex > application...but I don't think it is the solution for everyone. I > personally prefer the ease of use and flow of FB (or more specifically, my > bastardized version of FB ;-) which based on a combination of my personal > coding style that is very close to a fusebox-esque style and a version that > we were forced to use due to draconian server restrictions at > AT&T ). > > Eric > > /*-Original Message- > /*From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > /*Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 11:01 AM > /*To: CF-Talk > /*Subject: Re: fusebox vs model glue > /* > /*>denstar wrote: > /*>> Sounds like with FB you could end up with a Pretty Entertaining > /*Environment. > /*> > /*>*groans* > /*> > /*>> Is there a down side to all the flexibility? :-) > /*> > /*>Yes. It means that no 2 application developers will develop websites the > /*>same way. Though IMHO, that's not much of a downside. > /* > /*It could also mean that you end up with it going down the TOtally > /*Ineffective Ludicrous Entertaining Technology or TOILET. > /* > /*ok its been a long weekend. > /* > /* > > ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;203748912;27390454;j Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:311881 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: fusebox vs model glue
Which I have run into with MG...most of what we are doing is made overly complex by using MG, which in turns made it overly difficult to debug when we had probs. I can see where MG would be very useful for a very complex application...but I don't think it is the solution for everyone. I personally prefer the ease of use and flow of FB (or more specifically, my bastardized version of FB ;-) which based on a combination of my personal coding style that is very close to a fusebox-esque style and a version that we were forced to use due to draconian server restrictions at AT&T ). Eric /*-Original Message- /*From: Larry Lyons [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] /*Sent: Monday, September 01, 2008 11:01 AM /*To: CF-Talk /*Subject: Re: fusebox vs model glue /* /*>denstar wrote: /*>> Sounds like with FB you could end up with a Pretty Entertaining /*Environment. /*> /*>*groans* /*> /*>> Is there a down side to all the flexibility? :-) /*> /*>Yes. It means that no 2 application developers will develop websites the /*>same way. Though IMHO, that's not much of a downside. /* /*It could also mean that you end up with it going down the TOtally /*Ineffective Ludicrous Entertaining Technology or TOILET. /* /*ok its been a long weekend. /* /* ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;203748912;27390454;j Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:311879 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
TDD vs. Big Ball of Mud (was Re: fusebox vs model glue)
> It's actually switching over, to where the tests come first, that's > the hard part, for me. Due to a lot of the reasons listed in that > article about big balls of mud. :] I'm not entirely convinced that writing the test before writing the code is the best strategy... or at least that it's the best strategy for everyone. Development work by its nature means doing things that (we hope anyway) haven't been done before. And while you may have some ideas about how to accomplish those things ahead of time, the human brain is really just not equipped to map out large numbers of variables accurately in advance. I realize of course as soon as having said this a lot of TDD advocates will say "but you're not mapping out large numbers of variables in advance, you're mapping out small individual 'units'". Which is again what I think Hermes Conrad would call "technically correct... the best kind of correct". Even though you might be writing tests for a very small "unit" like an individual function, the reality is that you're still basically trying to start from E=MC2 and reverse engineer three gigantic chalk-boards full of equations to get to that solution. It works yes, I'm just not convinced it's the most efficient method. The reason I'm not convinced it's efficient is because I know there's a reason for the 80% failure rate in R&D. (Which not enough programmers are familiar with - good start on Wikipedia.) And don't treat programming as an R&D discipline like it should be treated. It's human nature to assume that things are easier than they are -- to be overconfident. You can't get around that, it just is. And humans are predisposed to be wrong about everything due to confirmation bias. The Wason Selection task proved that. And so it's an assumed that the TDD advocates who talk about writing all your tests before writing your code will be overconfident about their design. Over the course of development it will be necessary to rewrite about 80% of the initial design. And consequently about 80% of the tests... but if you write them in advance and you continue to rewrite them when the design changes, it's not just 80%, it will end up that in the best circumstances, you've (re)written something like 1000 lines of test code for every 20 lines of functional code. These are also forces that contribute significantly to the big ball of mud in spite of the fact that they're not described in Foote and Yoder's treatment of it. It's a shame that more of us in the IT industry haven't read up on cognitive bias. I'm not an expert, just saying based on what I've read it seems *really* important and the IT industry as a whole is almost completely unaware of any of it. I wanted to actually point to an example I know I saw where Matt Woodward had posted a comment on the Mach-II wiki about developers underestimating the challenges involved in maintaining code being a reason for one of their new features in 1.5. I'm having difficulty locating that particular comment at the moment. Anyway without using the term, he was describing precisely the effect of overconfidence bias. Showing really that you'll be affected by these things whether you're aware of them or not. Better imo to have at least an awareness of the research into cognitive bias even if you can't be an expert. > Maintaining the tests is what's hard for me. I don't do it right, so > I have to update them, instead of the other way around. So given what I've said above, I don't think this is just you. :) I think it's the approach to TDD. I think there's great promise in TDD though I'm not convinced the most effective approach to TDD is what's widely practiced (yet) in much the same way that most sold software in practice is in some kind of "big ball of mud" in spite of the fact that we have all this really good design available to us. > I'm sorta thinking that there should be some ways to automate a lot of > test creation. Or a way of flipping the problem on it's head... > something like introspection combined with a metasploit sorta deal... > hmm... sometimes the things I come up with are just pie in the sky > (or, not well thought out, conversely), See "overconfidence bias". :) > so I feel bad writing tests and stuff before I know the idea will work, > but I should stop that. Freaking throwaway code! But hey, maybe I'm > just planning on tossing at least the first version of everything. =] I'm thinking personally it may be better to work the tests into the middle, once you know it works and before it goes into maintenance mode. Not on an entire large application, but on a mid-sized logical bundle like a handful of CFCs that manage X. Though that leads to another problem in that once you're at that stage, there's a real risk of not getting around to writing the tests because either your boss sees what you've accomplished and insists that you immediately get on to the next section of the project without stopping to write the tests (because he doesn't u
Re: fusebox vs model glue
>denstar wrote: >> Sounds like with FB you could end up with a Pretty Entertaining Environment. > >*groans* > >> Is there a down side to all the flexibility? :-) > >Yes. It means that no 2 application developers will develop websites the >same way. Though IMHO, that's not much of a downside. It could also mean that you end up with it going down the TOtally Ineffective Ludicrous Entertaining Technology or TOILET. ok its been a long weekend. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;203748912;27390454;j Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:311877 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: fusebox vs model glue
On Sun, Aug 31, 2008 at 11:11 PM, s. isaac dealey wrote: > TDD is on my ever growing list of things to tackle. :) Not something I'm > doing currently, but it is something I plan to do at some point. It's cool, really, to have the computer do stuff it can do, while you're doing other stuff, so to speak. I like the idea of self-tests, actually, but I'm not quite "there" yet. > Hopefully it will also help when I start getting into TDD. Maintaining the tests is what's hard for me. I don't do it right, so I have to update them, instead of the other way around. I'm sure if you've got some structure going there, writing tests and whatnot will not be too hard. It's actually switching over, to where the tests come first, that's the hard part, for me. Due to a lot of the reasons listed in that article about big balls of mud. :] I might never do it, and just move to a higher level modeling language, and then just generate tests for stuff. Naw, I guess I've already sorta started using tests to flesh things out. I can't tell you how impressed I am with packages that have huge test suites... but I love watching stuff do other stuff, sorta. Those green or red marks churning by are titillating. Gives you a sense of confidence (false, of course, and moreso with poorly written tests, but still pretty swell ;] ). > Speaking of the big ball of mud I actually did sit down the other day > and read through the entire article written by Brian Foote and Joseph > Yoder. It's an interesting read and while it's not all entirely > practical (at least not right away), I think there's some good wisdom to > keep in mind in there. > > Full article at http://www.laputan.org/mud/ It's a fun one. Every time I come across it I read some/most of it again. Nice to see the problems laid out simply, with some, as you said, good ideas for handling them. Thanks for the link. I'm sorta thinking that there should be some ways to automate a lot of test creation. Or a way of flipping the problem on it's head... something like introspection combined with a metasploit sorta deal... hmm... sometimes the things I come up with are just pie in the sky (or, not well thought out, conversely), so I feel bad writing tests and stuff before I know the idea will work, but I should stop that. Freaking throwaway code! But hey, maybe I'm just planning on tossing at least the first version of everything. =] Well, this is getting well off the framework versus path. Although, this is exactly the stuff frameworks are on about, ain't it? Sorta. Heh. Apologies anyways, folks. |-} -- The key to wisdom is this - constant and frequent questioning, for by doubting we are led to question and by questioning we arrive at the truth. Peter Abelard ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;203748912;27390454;j Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:311872 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: fusebox vs model glue
> Hey, Isaac, you got unit tests being generated as well? I'd toss that > in there, while you're at generating stuff. > I'm loving my tests... TDD is on my ever growing list of things to tackle. :) Not something I'm doing currently, but it is something I plan to do at some point. As of yet I haven't been hit by any maintenance steamrollers tho... I'm generally able to switch tracks pretty quickly... For example, prior to this latest version (3.2) of the onTap framework and for as far back as I can remember, the bulk of the code in a framework application has been inside a /_components/ directory. In version 3.2 I made a sudden decision to change the name of that directory to /_tap/ ... I realize a lot of folks might say "wha?! what for?", but I was looking at it one day and some comments I had made about being surprised by some variable names in Galleon that weren't very specific (i.e. could result in namespace conflicts), and realizing that /_components/ might be somewhat confusing and perhaps a little less likely also be a directory someone else already had in their web root. And it occurred to me that /_tap/ might be a bit more specific, less confusing, etc. So I decided to make the change... A few days or maybe a week later (also amidst a 9-5 job) I think I had completely weeded out all references to /_components/. Now it's possible that I was able to do it that quickly because I really don't have a life and mostly spend my spare time sitting in front of this machine working on software. :P Though I like to think that the reason why I was able to make such a sweeping change so easily is really because although I know it has its faults (like any software system does) by and large the framework has never been a "big ball of mud". So I'm able to make "big" changes like that quickly becuase everything is so well encapsulated. It helps make maintenance and debugging easier. Hopefully it will also help when I start getting into TDD. Speaking of the big ball of mud I actually did sit down the other day and read through the entire article written by Brian Foote and Joseph Yoder. It's an interesting read and while it's not all entirely practical (at least not right away), I think there's some good wisdom to keep in mind in there. Full article at http://www.laputan.org/mud/ -- s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch isn't it time for a change? ph: 781.769.0723 http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;203748912;27390454;j Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:311868 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: fusebox vs model glue
On Sun, Aug 31, 2008 at 12:58 PM, Phillip M. Vector wrote: > denstar wrote: >> Sounds like with FB you could end up with a Pretty Entertaining Environment. > > *groans* First I was going to go with Pretty Incredible, Sophisticated and Simple-- but thought that it was a little much. =] >> Is there a down side to all the flexibility? :-) > > Yes. It means that no 2 application developers will develop websites the > same way. Though IMHO, that's not much of a downside. I was just having a gas, I wasn't really implying that X framework forces one to be organized. It's just as easy to Create Rockingly Applicable Performant code with any framework, I reckon. The key, IMO, is getting the concepts, more than the FWs themselves. FWs can help, but it takes real thinking, in the end, no matter what (well, I guess. Maybe there will be a point in time where I'm like "yes, this goes here, and that goes there!", and not have any question about where X should go... but I doubt it. I don't, (from years of watching) think that it works that way)). Hmmm, so long as we're talking acronyms, what about some TDD, folks? Hey, Isaac, you got unit tests being generated as well? I'd toss that in there, while you're at generating stuff. I'm loving my tests... But screw writing all that STUFF by hand. -- The history of philosophy is not, like the history of the sciences, to be studied with the intellect alone. That which is receptive in us and that which impinges upon us from history is the reality of man's being, unfolding itself in thought. Karl Jaspers ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;203748912;27390454;j Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:311859 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: fusebox vs model glue
> Hell yes there can be a downside to flexibility. That's one of the > things I've always complain about with fusebox, but I am not planning > on changing that flexibility. With a good set of best practices and > coding standards you can wrangle in the variations some and not loose > all your flexibility, unless you make a stupid standards that are too > rigid like you must always use CFCs. You can further alleviate > unneeded variance with code reviews and good design principles. I tend to agree with Adam's assessment. I've attempted to create an environment with the onTap framework which offers that similar flexibility to start out with quick procedural coding and then quickly and easily refactor it as needed into an OO/SOA approach. What I'm really working on mostly in the past month or two has been to grow the community more than anything else. I am still working on code, but it's not all for things I'll be using myself. Right now I'm working on something I always said I never cared for -- a code generator. Specifically a scaffolding tool I'm calling FireLadder. I probably won't use it for my own applications, however, I know that a lot of folks are interested in having it and so that's why I'm working to provide one. And while the scaffold tool will create cleanly separated models, views and controllers and hook them into the framework's IoC Manager (part of it's overall SOA design), the tool itself isn't quite that sophisticated because it really doesn't need to be, and because an application in production doesn't need the extra load of having a scaffolding tool loaded up into its SOA config since it should never be used by your clients or visitors. At least to me, it makes more sense for a "one time" building tool like this to simply build the infrastructure and then get out of your way. And I'm always excited to get more feedback at http://on.tapogee.com -- or on the new wiki or google group. We even added blog-style comments to the entire framework site. So the home page and every page of the documentation now has comments at the bottom to help us tweak them and make them better. :) -- s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch isn't it time for a change? ph: 781.769.0723 http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;203748912;27390454;j Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:311858 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: fusebox vs model glue
Hell yes there can be a downside to flexibility. That's one of the things I've always complain about with fusebox, but I am not planning on changing that flexibility. With a good set of best practices and coding standards you can wrangle in the variations some and not loose all your flexibility, unless you make a stupid standards that are too rigid like you must always use CFCs. You can further alleviate unneeded variance with code reviews and good design principles. Adam! On Sun, Aug 31, 2008 at 2:58 PM, Phillip M. Vector < [EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > denstar wrote: > > Sounds like with FB you could end up with a Pretty Entertaining > Environment. > > *groans* > > > Is there a down side to all the flexibility? :-) > > Yes. It means that no 2 application developers will develop websites the > same way. Though IMHO, that's not much of a downside. > > ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;203748912;27390454;j Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:311855 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: fusebox vs model glue
denstar wrote: > Sounds like with FB you could end up with a Pretty Entertaining Environment. *groans* > Is there a down side to all the flexibility? :-) Yes. It means that no 2 application developers will develop websites the same way. Though IMHO, that's not much of a downside. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;203748912;27390454;j Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:311854 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: fusebox vs model glue
Sounds like with FB you could end up with a Pretty Entertaining Environment. Is there a down side to all the flexibility? :-) -- The community of masses of human beings has produced an order of life in regulated channels which connects individuals in a technically functioning organisation, but not inwardly from the historicity of their souls. Karl Jaspers On Sun, Aug 31, 2008 at 9:00 AM, Adam Haskell wrote: > Disclaimer: I just took over the Fusebox core files so my opinion is most > likely slaned ;) > > > Well the easy answer here is no they are not similar and yes use one or the > other. The hard answer is that evil last one. What's the maturity level of > you/your group? Fusebox offers a vast bit more flexibility in how you code > (not forcing you into an OO, or pseudo OO approach) if you think you are > just doing CRUD applications most of the time you will most likely end up > with a Procedural Object Oriented Program (yep thats right you end up with > POOP) if you use MG. Thats not to say poop in this regard is always a bad > thing just know what you are heading for and accept that you will pay the OO > hit for all your applications regardless of the nessecity for OO. This is > one on of the reason I sort of like fusebox it can be made to compliment > different levels of applications. You have an application that is very > behaviour driven with a rich domain model? No problem model it out and use > Fusebox as a nice front end controller. You have a reporting app that is > chock full of complex queries but not much more? No problem write out your > queries in a coule of qry_ files and display them with some layouts and dsp_ > pages. Why take the OO hit for a reporting app? Fusebox is not the silver > bullet mind you, but it has not failed me yet in an enterprise with more > than 20 apps written in fusebox ranging from internal workflow apps to > enterprise level CMS apps. ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;203748912;27390454;j Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:311853 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: fusebox vs model glue
Disclaimer: I just took over the Fusebox core files so my opinion is most likely slaned ;) Well the easy answer here is no they are not similar and yes use one or the other. The hard answer is that evil last one. What's the maturity level of you/your group? Fusebox offers a vast bit more flexibility in how you code (not forcing you into an OO, or pseudo OO approach) if you think you are just doing CRUD applications most of the time you will most likely end up with a Procedural Object Oriented Program (yep thats right you end up with POOP) if you use MG. Thats not to say poop in this regard is always a bad thing just know what you are heading for and accept that you will pay the OO hit for all your applications regardless of the nessecity for OO. This is one on of the reason I sort of like fusebox it can be made to compliment different levels of applications. You have an application that is very behaviour driven with a rich domain model? No problem model it out and use Fusebox as a nice front end controller. You have a reporting app that is chock full of complex queries but not much more? No problem write out your queries in a coule of qry_ files and display them with some layouts and dsp_ pages. Why take the OO hit for a reporting app? Fusebox is not the silver bullet mind you, but it has not failed me yet in an enterprise with more than 20 apps written in fusebox ranging from internal workflow apps to enterprise level CMS apps. Adam On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 4:03 PM, Richard White <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > hi > > we have just reviewed model glue, and have also looked into fusebox very > briefly > > is fusebox similiar to model glue? and if so is it a case of using one or > the other? and if so then what are your feelings on which one is better? > > thanks for your help > > richard > > ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;203748912;27390454;j Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:311851 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: fusebox vs model glue
Oh... Beyond belief. :) I could try to explain HOW confusing... but I can't even begin to explain it. That's how confusing it is. :) But the last 5 contracts I did (with different people) had Model Glue with a "fusebox like" setup (or standard fusebox). Hopefully, I'm just unlucky and this isn't a trend. s. isaac dealey wrote: > I would expect that to be fairly confusing. :P ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;203748912;27390454;j Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:311698 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: fusebox vs model glue
> Hell of a well-thought out post. I was going to snip it down and > keep only relevant bits, but it was all pretty relevant (so um yeah... > i snipped it all) :) Thanks Chuck! Actually I do appreciate the complement. :) > i think once you grok the basics of one, learning others won't be > *nearly* as daunting or intimidating. that's not to say > they're "interchangeable", but it's definitely easier to learn your > 2nd framework than your first. so, with all due respect to > both you and Brian... i'd still stick with that response. yes, it > *is* confusing and difficult if you are new to a frameworks and OO. > but you're only new to frameworks the first time :) > obviously, there's still learning to do. and everyone's time is at a > premium. i'm not suggesting building something along the lines of a > full-blown CMS application with each framework. for my foray into > ColdBox, i took a page from Dan Wilson's book and did a simple contact > manager. I will actually nod general agreement to everything you've said here. :) Though I will also say that as an individual developer and having already had a good deal of experience with Fusebox 3 and 4 it still took me a good 2 weeks or maybe a little more of solid work to get those Galleon Ports done and the Model-Glue and Mach-II versions weren't quite finished. A few things to note about that 1) I did take a day out to swap Ray's cfqueries for my own ORM, which I did not do for any of the other frameworks (ColdBox, Fusebox, etc.) because none of them had built-in ORMs. (I didn't do FarCry, sorry. Didn't occur to me at the time, though it does have a built-in ORM called FourQ.) 2) I'm not sure if most developers would have put the kind of time I put into that. That's not intended as any kind of disrespect to other developers... Sean Corfield may be a notable exception, since I know he's done similar things in the past... but I really wouldn't expect most programmers to have the kind of lack of sleep or social life that I usually have (largely due to autism). In the end I think I might prefer not to be autistic and have a social life, but that's not the set of cards I've been dealt. 3) I personally consider Galleon to be a pretty small application... I'm not sure if it qualifies as being as small as the theoretical contact manager, but that's my take on it anyway. There are only about 4 or 5 tables in the database - users, conferences, forums, threads and messages. So I'm not sure how that compares to the contact manager for size. All that being said, even though the Model-Glue and Mach-II ports were never really completed, the purpose really was to show that knowledge of frameworks does transfer from one to the next like you said, so that having a general understanding of frameworks is ultimately more important than which framework you choose to start with. And moreover that learning any framework will help give you that general understanding. The article merely gives you a way to read through the side-by-side comparisons to help you get a generalized understanding up-front without necessarily having to start by building something in each framework yourself. More like a primer. Once you've read it, that should help make the transition a bit smoother. And yes I do promote my own framework a lot in the article. :) -- s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch isn't it time for a change? ph: 781.769.0723 http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;203748912;27390454;j Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:311697 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: fusebox vs model glue
On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 5:24 PM, s. isaac dealey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hey Ike: Hell of a well-thought out post. I was going to snip it down and keep only relevant bits, but it was all pretty relevant (so um yeah... i snipped it all) :) the one point i'd like to try and make in response is that, yes... learning a single framework can be daunting and/or intimidating... so suggesting "learn them all and pick the one that feels right" might seem like bad advice (or, at the very least, less good advice). but here's the thing... i think once you grok the basics of one, learning others won't be *nearly* as daunting or intimidating. as i had alluded to... the fact that i had somewhat of a grasp of fusebox definitely helped me in picking up model-glue. that's not to say they're "interchangeable", but it's definitely easier to learn your 2nd framework than your first. i've recently started to play around with ColdBox and again... understanding the concepts behind a front-controller MVC framework has made it much easier. so, with all due respect to both you and Brian... i'd still stick with that response. yes, it *is* confusing and difficult if you are new to a frameworks and OO. but you're only new to frameworks (maybe less the OO piece) the first time :) after that it's more "hmm... i'm used to doing it -this way- in "framework x"... i see that "framework y" does it like -this-. obviously, there's still learning to do. and everyone's time is at a premium. i'm not suggesting building something along the lines of a full-blown CMS application with each framework. for my foray into ColdBox, i took a page from Dan Wilson's book and did a simple contact manager. the investment of time, and the frustration of trying to grasp something new... that's all part of learning. it's not always fun, but i've generally found it to be well worth the pain when the light bulb does finally go off :) -- A byte walks into a bar and orders a pint. Bartender asks him "What's wrong?" Byte says "Parity error." Bartender nods and says "Yeah, I thought you looked a bit off." ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;203748912;27390454;j Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:311692 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: fusebox vs model glue
> I may be in the minority here, but I've come into several projects that > use Model Glue AND fusebox (turning it into a confusing mess for us > developers who don't know much OO programing). > > If you do happen to pick a framework, if possible, please try to stick > to that one. :) I would expect that to be fairly confusing. :P -- s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch isn't it time for a change? ph: 781.769.0723 http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;203748912;27390454;j Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:311691 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: fusebox vs model glue
I may be in the minority here, but I've come into several projects that use Model Glue AND fusebox (turning it into a confusing mess for us developers who don't know much OO programing). If you do happen to pick a framework, if possible, please try to stick to that one. :) ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;203748912;27390454;j Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:311689 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: fusebox vs model glue
> Richard White said: > is fusebox similiar to model glue? and if so is it a case of using > one or the other? and if so then what are your feelings on which one > is better? Although it might not mean much right now, I'll say very briefly that Model-Glue is an OO framework, meaning that, if you're not using OO now, you WILL use OO if you start using MG, because the framework doesn't give you a choice in the matter. That's not intended to be derogatory, some people consider this a benefit. Fusebox on the other hand offers a variety of different ways to develop your application that can actually be used interchangeably. So one circuit may be designed in an OO manner while others are designed in a procedural manner. That's also not necessarily an endorsement of Fusebox either. Some people consider this a drawback. :) > Charlie (Good) Griefer said: > that being said, your best bet as to determining which one is "better" > (for you) would be to build small sample apps with both, and see which > one feels better for you. This is an answer that a lot of folks give when the question of "best framework" crops up. (In addition of course to the variety of people who answer to say "Fusebox" or "ColdBox" or "FarCry".) A while back Brian Rinaldi had this comment about that approach: "Personally, I dislike the advice of building sample apps with each Framework. It is confusing and difficult if you are new to a frameworks and OO and it is time consuming. Therefore completely unrealistic unless you have lots of spare time." Sean Corfield of course always gives the answer "it depends", which if I'm being pragmatic is pretty appropriate. If you've got a group of programmers who're comfortable with a particular style of development, you're liable to lose productivity if you try the "sink or swim" approach with a framework that uses a really different approach. So it makes sense in general to choose a framework that your team is comfortable with. If you're new to frameworks in general though, often the array of available frameworks can be rather intimidating, and a lot of folks end up putting off learning frameworks in general in the hopes that soon the "one true (standard) framework" will come along and be the obvious choice for every project. Although if you find yourself in that position, the thing to remember is this: it won't. That's not a criticism either, it's just human nature to be indecisive for fear of losing options. Here's a blog I wrote about natural indecisiveness with regard to frameworks: http://ontap.riaforge.org/blog/index.cfm/2008/5/2/Indecisive Shortly after that I started working on a project that may interest you in which I ported Ray Camden's Galleon forums to several different frameworks. I chose Model-Glue, Mach-II, ColdBox, 2-flavors of Fusebox and my own onTap framework. The article here shows a comparison of how different common tasks are accomplished with each framework and you can download the archive with all the ports of Galleon if you want to see the actual code used to port them: http://on.tapogee.com/galleonproject/ That should give you a birds-eye view of the different frameworks without having to take the time to redevelop the same application several times, since I've already done that. :) Although it doesn't get into some of the more specific details of the other frameworks, like it won't explain what addResult() is in Model-Glue or why you need it (a very OO concept). Lastly I will say that the other four frameworks are all "front controller" frameworks, so urls like index.cfm?event=yadda.yadda will be common across the board. The onTap framework on the other hand is a "rear controller" framework, and while it will *allow* urls like that, it's designed to offer the flexibility to allow you to write URLs however you prefer. As a matter of fact, pages can be easily moved into or out of the framework without changing their URL at all and without the person visiting your site needing to know that you're even using any kind of framework. There's an article about the "rear controller" design pattern on the framework wiki here: http://ontap.wikispaces.com/The+Rear+Controller+and+You Good luck in your selection process :) ike -- s. isaac dealey ^ new epoch isn't it time for a change? ph: 781.769.0723 http://onTap.riaforge.org/blog ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;203748912;27390454;j Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:311688 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: fusebox vs model glue
> hi > > we have just reviewed model glue, and have also looked into fusebox > very briefly It might be good to also review Coldbox. www.coldboxframework.com Will ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;203748912;27390454;j Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:311680 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: fusebox vs model glue
On Wed, Aug 27, 2008 at 1:03 PM, Richard White <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > hi > > we have just reviewed model glue, and have also looked into fusebox very > briefly > > is fusebox similiar to model glue? and if so is it a case of using one or > the other? and if so then what are your feelings on which one is better? > > thanks for your help > > richard > wow. this should be interesting :) which one is "better" is going to be highly *highly* subjective. the first framework that I learned was Fusebox (4.1). it did make learning Model-Glue easier, as there are a number of similarities, and I could take MG concepts and think of it as, "oh... this would be ___ in fusebox". personally, i'm a huge proponent of the concept of frameworks (whether it's a community-supported one or your own home-grown). they help standardize your development, promote a consistent way of coding, and if done right, do make smaller bits of reusable code. so IMHO, there's no "wrong" answer to which is "better". whichever framework you choose, if implemented properly, will give you these benefits. that being said, your best bet as to determining which one is "better" (for you) would be to build small sample apps with both, and see which one feels better for you. -- A byte walks into a bar and orders a pint. Bartender asks him "What's wrong?" Byte says "Parity error." Bartender nods and says "Yeah, I thought you looked a bit off." ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;203748912;27390454;j Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:311678 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Fusebox 4.1 Conditionals
Hi, Chris, I know for a fact that you could not nest tags like that in Fusebox 4.0. I'm pretty sure that you have to use Fusebox 5 or later to do that. -- Brian Swartzfager [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~| Adobe® ColdFusion® 8 software 8 is the most important and dramatic release to date Get the Free Trial http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;160198600;22374440;w Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:301328 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Fusebox - is there a trick to following the flow?
On 7/25/07, Mike Kear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Is it a simple/trivial thing to convert to fusebox 5+ ? Well, in *theory* it's just a matter of installing the FB51 core files under your webroot (or elsewhere and add a /fusebox5 mapping) and then you just change your application's index.cfm to /fusebox5/fusebox5.cfm instead of the Fuebox 4 runtime. In theory. There are one or two incompatibilities but they are in corner cases so it will depend on whether your scary FB4 app uses exotic plugins or has odd FB code in it. Happy to help you offlist (you know my email / IMs right? :) - we can figure out some suitable approach... -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive." -- Margaret Atwood ~| Enterprise web applications, build robust, secure scalable apps today - Try it now ColdFusion Today ColdFusion 8 beta - Build next generation apps Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:284612 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: Fusebox - is there a trick to following the flow?
You might want to start by flow charting the site (physically speaking). This will give you a map of what the page flow is. Eric -Original Message- From: Mike Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 7:29 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Fusebox - is there a trick to following the flow? I have inherited a fusebox4.0 app to maintain that has dozens of circuits that are reused all over the place. I know that's how fusebox is supposed to work, and it makes sense to reuse the fuses, but wow it takes AGES to follow the flow of the program. And i end up with dozens of files open, all called circuit.xml.cfm so its easy to make a mistake following it all along. For example I have to figure out how something works, so i can maintain it, or build something else similar. In order to find out how the task works, i follow one xml file through, seeing dozens of fuses, all of which i have to go to, open the circuits.xml.cfm relating to it, follow that one along, then open more. By the time i've got to the final, actual coldfusoin type tags relating to the functionality, i've almost forgotten what it was i started out to do. Is there a shortcut to working out how everything's bolted together? If i keep taking hours to work out the simplest things i'm not going to last long on this assignment. -- Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month ~| Get the answers you are looking for on the ColdFusion Labs Forum direct from active programmers and developers. http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/webforums/forum/categories.cfm?forumid-72&catid=648 Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:284607 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Fusebox - is there a trick to following the flow?
I would investigate migrating it to FB5 because the FB debug is awesome. You can turn the CFdebug off then. Greg On 7/25/07, Sandra Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Development mode forces a reload of the circuit files, parsed files and > the > fusebox with each call. Production mode will only reload the parsed files > if they aren't there and it won't pick up changes in the circuit files > either. The problem is that forcing the recall from production mode to > pick > up the changes requires the url variables I mentioned. > > Use development mode now, change to production mode once you are ready to > deploy to the production server. Development modes are not thread safe. > > > Sandra Clark > = > http://www.shayna.com > Training and Consulting in CSS and Accessibility > Team Fusebox > > > -Original Message- > From: Mike Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 10:56 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: Fusebox - is there a trick to following the flow? > > Sandra, thank you!That looks extremely helpful. > > What does do? Does it > force a reload of the XML files every page view? If so, that's what > i've been looking for for days now! > > And yes, this app seems pretty well written by the previous guy. IT > reuses code a LOT. It is built on MVC archtecture everywhere. > > But it's big though.In the main folder there are 29,547 files to > come to grips with! > > Cheers > Mike Kear > Windsor, NSW, Australia > Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer > AFP Webworks > http://afpwebworks.com > ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month > > > > On 7/26/07, Sandra Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Couple of things that will help in Debugging a Fusebox 4+ app. > > > > 1) Validate the XML in circuit.xml.cfm. Fusebox will burp on bad XML. > > > > If an error shows up in the parsed file. (circuit.fuseaction.cfm) then > the > > error is in the circuit. > > > > Most well done FB4+ apps usually use MVC. The controller will act as > your > > traffic cop. Noting which parsed file is throwing the error, will > enable > > you to quickly move to the controller circuit and fuseaction. > > > > In fusebox.xml.cfm make sure that in the section that > > . This will turn on some > debugging > > in your parsed files so that you can go down to where the error is and > find > > out which circuit file and lines are throwing the actual error. Make > sure > > to turn this off once you go into production. > > > > Always develop in (for > > Fusebox 4) and > (for > > Fusebox 5+) > > > > Once you go into production /> > if > > you need to change something in your circuits, delete all parsed files, > and > > call your page with > > http://yourwebsite/index.cfm?fusebox.load=true&fusebox.password= (you > set > > your password in the parameters section of fusebox.xml.cfm using > > name="password" value=""/>. > > > > > > Sandra Clark > > = > > http://www.shayna.com > > Training and Consulting in CSS and Accessibility > > Team Fusebox > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: Mike Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 8:29 AM > > To: CF-Talk > > Subject: Fusebox - is there a trick to following the flow? > > > > I have inherited a fusebox4.0 app to maintain that has dozens of > > circuits that are reused all over the place. I know that's how > > fusebox is supposed to work, and it makes sense to reuse the fuses, > > but wow it takes AGES to follow the flow of the program. And i end > > up with dozens of files open, all called circuit.xml.cfm so its easy > > to make a mistake following it all along. > > > > For example I have to figure out how something works, so i can > > maintain it, or build something else similar. In order to find out > > how the task works, i follow one xml file through, seeing dozens of > > fuses, all of which i have to go to, open the circuits.xml.cfm > > relating to it, follow that one along, then open more. By the time > > i've got to the final, actual coldfusoin type tags relating to the > > functionality, i've almost forgotten what it was i started out to do. > > > > Is there a shortcut to working out how everything's bolted together? > > If i keep taking hours to work out the simplest things i'm not going > > to last long on this assignment. > > &g
Re: Fusebox - is there a trick to following the flow?
Thanks Sean. Your advice is very welcome. It's a Fusebox 4.0.2 app. The circuits folder has 28,000 files in it! Took 45 minutes just to unzip onto my dev PC. Is it a simple/trivial thing to convert to fusebox 5+ ?It's not going to be something i'm going to be paid to do, so it needs to be trivial or I wont be able to do it. I like to stay up with the times - just a step behind the cutting edge. But to tell the truth I'm starting to see the benefits of fusebox as i've gradually got familiar with it. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month On 7/26/07, Sean Corfield <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 7/25/07, Mike Kear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > What does do? Does it > > force a reload of the XML files every page view? > > Yup. It'll makes things run slowly (since the framework is reloading > on every request) but it will enable you to test the changes you are > making more easily. > > If you are using Fusebox 5.x core files, you probably want > development-circuit-load for mode instead since that will be faster > (but won't pick up changes to fusebox.xml.cfm - you need to force a > fusebox.load for that). > > Also, if you used the Fusebox 5.x core files, you can enable > debug/tracing by adding: > > > > In fusebox.xml.cfm make sure that in the section that > > > . > > This will show a couple trace of every fuseaction in a request which > can be very helpful (but it's a new option in Fusebox 5). > > Fusebox tries hard not to get in your way as a developer and the > downside of that is that it does not place many restrictions on you in > terms of structure. That makes it possible to create very complex, > unstructured workflows :( > > A well-structured Fusebox app is a joy to maintain - as long as > circuit and fuseaction names have been well chosen and the "call tree" > (of ) is top-down. It sounds like neither of those are true in the > app you've inherited, especially with calls from low-level circuits > being made back to higher-level circuits which is definitely poor > practice. It would be like having model CFCs trying to call controller > CFCs in Model-Glue or Mach II. > -- > Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN > An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ > > "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive." > -- Margaret Atwood > > ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade to ColdFusion 8 and integrate with Adobe Flex http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:284582 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: Fusebox - is there a trick to following the flow?
Development mode forces a reload of the circuit files, parsed files and the fusebox with each call. Production mode will only reload the parsed files if they aren't there and it won't pick up changes in the circuit files either. The problem is that forcing the recall from production mode to pick up the changes requires the url variables I mentioned. Use development mode now, change to production mode once you are ready to deploy to the production server. Development modes are not thread safe. Sandra Clark = http://www.shayna.com Training and Consulting in CSS and Accessibility Team Fusebox -Original Message- From: Mike Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 10:56 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox - is there a trick to following the flow? Sandra, thank you!That looks extremely helpful. What does do? Does it force a reload of the XML files every page view? If so, that's what i've been looking for for days now! And yes, this app seems pretty well written by the previous guy. IT reuses code a LOT. It is built on MVC archtecture everywhere. But it's big though.In the main folder there are 29,547 files to come to grips with! Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month On 7/26/07, Sandra Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Couple of things that will help in Debugging a Fusebox 4+ app. > > 1) Validate the XML in circuit.xml.cfm. Fusebox will burp on bad XML. > > If an error shows up in the parsed file. (circuit.fuseaction.cfm) then the > error is in the circuit. > > Most well done FB4+ apps usually use MVC. The controller will act as your > traffic cop. Noting which parsed file is throwing the error, will enable > you to quickly move to the controller circuit and fuseaction. > > In fusebox.xml.cfm make sure that in the section that > . This will turn on some debugging > in your parsed files so that you can go down to where the error is and find > out which circuit file and lines are throwing the actual error. Make sure > to turn this off once you go into production. > > Always develop in (for > Fusebox 4) and (for > Fusebox 5+) > > Once you go into production if > you need to change something in your circuits, delete all parsed files, and > call your page with > http://yourwebsite/index.cfm?fusebox.load=true&fusebox.password= (you set > your password in the parameters section of fusebox.xml.cfm using name="password" value=""/>. > > > Sandra Clark > = > http://www.shayna.com > Training and Consulting in CSS and Accessibility > Team Fusebox > > > -Original Message- > From: Mike Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 8:29 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Fusebox - is there a trick to following the flow? > > I have inherited a fusebox4.0 app to maintain that has dozens of > circuits that are reused all over the place. I know that's how > fusebox is supposed to work, and it makes sense to reuse the fuses, > but wow it takes AGES to follow the flow of the program. And i end > up with dozens of files open, all called circuit.xml.cfm so its easy > to make a mistake following it all along. > > For example I have to figure out how something works, so i can > maintain it, or build something else similar. In order to find out > how the task works, i follow one xml file through, seeing dozens of > fuses, all of which i have to go to, open the circuits.xml.cfm > relating to it, follow that one along, then open more. By the time > i've got to the final, actual coldfusoin type tags relating to the > functionality, i've almost forgotten what it was i started out to do. > > Is there a shortcut to working out how everything's bolted together? > If i keep taking hours to work out the simplest things i'm not going > to last long on this assignment. > > -- > Cheers > Mike Kear > Windsor, NSW, Australia > Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer > AFP Webworks > http://afpwebworks.com > ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month > > > > ~| ColdFusion 8 beta - Build next generation apps today, with easy PDF and Ajax features - download now http://download.macromedia.com/pub/labs/coldfusion/cf8_beta_whatsnew_052907.pdf Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:284560 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Fusebox - is there a trick to following the flow?
On 7/25/07, Mike Kear <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > What does do? Does it > force a reload of the XML files every page view? Yup. It'll makes things run slowly (since the framework is reloading on every request) but it will enable you to test the changes you are making more easily. If you are using Fusebox 5.x core files, you probably want development-circuit-load for mode instead since that will be faster (but won't pick up changes to fusebox.xml.cfm - you need to force a fusebox.load for that). Also, if you used the Fusebox 5.x core files, you can enable debug/tracing by adding: > > In fusebox.xml.cfm make sure that in the section that > > . This will show a couple trace of every fuseaction in a request which can be very helpful (but it's a new option in Fusebox 5). Fusebox tries hard not to get in your way as a developer and the downside of that is that it does not place many restrictions on you in terms of structure. That makes it possible to create very complex, unstructured workflows :( A well-structured Fusebox app is a joy to maintain - as long as circuit and fuseaction names have been well chosen and the "call tree" (of ) is top-down. It sounds like neither of those are true in the app you've inherited, especially with calls from low-level circuits being made back to higher-level circuits which is definitely poor practice. It would be like having model CFCs trying to call controller CFCs in Model-Glue or Mach II. -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive." -- Margaret Atwood ~| Enterprise web applications, build robust, secure scalable apps today - Try it now ColdFusion Today ColdFusion 8 beta - Build next generation apps Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:284557 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: Fusebox - is there a trick to following the flow?
I'd recommend that you call the fuseaction in question, rather than copy the file itself. You would do this using the verb. That way the core files will take care of making sure your dependencies are all there, and you will have very little editing to do. Even if the logic is similar but not identical it might be easier to add conditional logic to the original circuit that would expose your new functionality, rather than essentially duplicating functionality in your application. -Original Message- From: Mike Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 10:52 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox - is there a trick to following the flow? Thanks for your suggestion Phillip. Actually what I am currently tasked with is duplicate part of the functionality of one circuit in a new circuit. At first sight, all i have to do is copy that circuit to a new folder, tweak the circuit.xml.cfm files a bit and change the dsp files to show the new presentation stuff since the business logic is much the same. Not identical but quite similar. However the existing circuit uses lots of other circuits - reusing code as it's supposed to. So figuring out what they all do is not easy.A fuse for example might have 6-8 http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month On 7/26/07, Phillip M. Vector <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It wasn't that steep when I tried learning it, but then again, I learned > on FB3. :) > > The idea is that you only open up 1 circuit.xml file at a time. trace > down the error that's causing a fuseaction to go kaput and then move > onto the next. > > It shoulds like you are opening all the pages that have errors and > trying to fix them all in one fell swoop. You can't do that with fusebox > (and not lose your sanity). Just fix each problem one at a time until > the whole app works. > > Hopefully, that helps. > > ~| ColdFusion is delivering applications solutions at at top companies around the world in government. Find out how and where now http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/showcase/index.cfm?event=finder&productID=1522&loc=en_us Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:284550 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Fusebox - is there a trick to following the flow?
Thanks for your suggestion Phillip. Actually what I am currently tasked with is duplicate part of the functionality of one circuit in a new circuit. At first sight, all i have to do is copy that circuit to a new folder, tweak the circuit.xml.cfm files a bit and change the dsp files to show the new presentation stuff since the business logic is much the same. Not identical but quite similar. However the existing circuit uses lots of other circuits - reusing code as it's supposed to. So figuring out what they all do is not easy.A fuse for example might have 6-8 http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month On 7/26/07, Phillip M. Vector <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It wasn't that steep when I tried learning it, but then again, I learned > on FB3. :) > > The idea is that you only open up 1 circuit.xml file at a time. trace > down the error that's causing a fuseaction to go kaput and then move > onto the next. > > It shoulds like you are opening all the pages that have errors and > trying to fix them all in one fell swoop. You can't do that with fusebox > (and not lose your sanity). Just fix each problem one at a time until > the whole app works. > > Hopefully, that helps. > > ~| Check out the new features and enhancements in the latest product release - download the "What's New PDF" now http://download.macromedia.com/pub/labs/coldfusion/cf8_beta_whatsnew_052907.pdf Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:284548 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: Fusebox - is there a trick to following the flow?
Couple of things that will help in Debugging a Fusebox 4+ app. 1) Validate the XML in circuit.xml.cfm. Fusebox will burp on bad XML. If an error shows up in the parsed file. (circuit.fuseaction.cfm) then the error is in the circuit. Most well done FB4+ apps usually use MVC. The controller will act as your traffic cop. Noting which parsed file is throwing the error, will enable you to quickly move to the controller circuit and fuseaction. In fusebox.xml.cfm make sure that in the section that . This will turn on some debugging in your parsed files so that you can go down to where the error is and find out which circuit file and lines are throwing the actual error. Make sure to turn this off once you go into production. Always develop in (for Fusebox 4) and (for Fusebox 5+) Once you go into production if you need to change something in your circuits, delete all parsed files, and call your page with http://yourwebsite/index.cfm?fusebox.load=true&fusebox.password= (you set your password in the parameters section of fusebox.xml.cfm using . Sandra Clark = http://www.shayna.com Training and Consulting in CSS and Accessibility Team Fusebox -Original Message- From: Mike Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 8:29 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Fusebox - is there a trick to following the flow? I have inherited a fusebox4.0 app to maintain that has dozens of circuits that are reused all over the place. I know that's how fusebox is supposed to work, and it makes sense to reuse the fuses, but wow it takes AGES to follow the flow of the program. And i end up with dozens of files open, all called circuit.xml.cfm so its easy to make a mistake following it all along. For example I have to figure out how something works, so i can maintain it, or build something else similar. In order to find out how the task works, i follow one xml file through, seeing dozens of fuses, all of which i have to go to, open the circuits.xml.cfm relating to it, follow that one along, then open more. By the time i've got to the final, actual coldfusoin type tags relating to the functionality, i've almost forgotten what it was i started out to do. Is there a shortcut to working out how everything's bolted together? If i keep taking hours to work out the simplest things i'm not going to last long on this assignment. -- Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month ~| Check out the new features and enhancements in the latest product release - download the "What's New PDF" now http://download.macromedia.com/pub/labs/coldfusion/cf8_beta_whatsnew_052907.pdf Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:284547 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Fusebox - is there a trick to following the flow?
Sandra, thank you!That looks extremely helpful. What does do? Does it force a reload of the XML files every page view? If so, that's what i've been looking for for days now! And yes, this app seems pretty well written by the previous guy. IT reuses code a LOT. It is built on MVC archtecture everywhere. But it's big though.In the main folder there are 29,547 files to come to grips with! Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month On 7/26/07, Sandra Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Couple of things that will help in Debugging a Fusebox 4+ app. > > 1) Validate the XML in circuit.xml.cfm. Fusebox will burp on bad XML. > > If an error shows up in the parsed file. (circuit.fuseaction.cfm) then the > error is in the circuit. > > Most well done FB4+ apps usually use MVC. The controller will act as your > traffic cop. Noting which parsed file is throwing the error, will enable > you to quickly move to the controller circuit and fuseaction. > > In fusebox.xml.cfm make sure that in the section that > . This will turn on some debugging > in your parsed files so that you can go down to where the error is and find > out which circuit file and lines are throwing the actual error. Make sure > to turn this off once you go into production. > > Always develop in (for > Fusebox 4) and (for > Fusebox 5+) > > Once you go into production if > you need to change something in your circuits, delete all parsed files, and > call your page with > http://yourwebsite/index.cfm?fusebox.load=true&fusebox.password= (you set > your password in the parameters section of fusebox.xml.cfm using name="password" value=""/>. > > > Sandra Clark > = > http://www.shayna.com > Training and Consulting in CSS and Accessibility > Team Fusebox > > > -Original Message- > From: Mike Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 8:29 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Fusebox - is there a trick to following the flow? > > I have inherited a fusebox4.0 app to maintain that has dozens of > circuits that are reused all over the place. I know that's how > fusebox is supposed to work, and it makes sense to reuse the fuses, > but wow it takes AGES to follow the flow of the program. And i end > up with dozens of files open, all called circuit.xml.cfm so its easy > to make a mistake following it all along. > > For example I have to figure out how something works, so i can > maintain it, or build something else similar. In order to find out > how the task works, i follow one xml file through, seeing dozens of > fuses, all of which i have to go to, open the circuits.xml.cfm > relating to it, follow that one along, then open more. By the time > i've got to the final, actual coldfusoin type tags relating to the > functionality, i've almost forgotten what it was i started out to do. > > Is there a shortcut to working out how everything's bolted together? > If i keep taking hours to work out the simplest things i'm not going > to last long on this assignment. > > -- > Cheers > Mike Kear > Windsor, NSW, Australia > Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer > AFP Webworks > http://afpwebworks.com > ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month > > > > ~| Get the answers you are looking for on the ColdFusion Labs Forum direct from active programmers and developers. http://www.adobe.com/cfusion/webforums/forum/categories.cfm?forumid-72&catid=648 Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:284549 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Fusebox - is there a trick to following the flow?
It wasn't that steep when I tried learning it, but then again, I learned on FB3. :) The idea is that you only open up 1 circuit.xml file at a time. trace down the error that's causing a fuseaction to go kaput and then move onto the next. It shoulds like you are opening all the pages that have errors and trying to fix them all in one fell swoop. You can't do that with fusebox (and not lose your sanity). Just fix each problem one at a time until the whole app works. Hopefully, that helps. Mike Kear wrote: > Thanks Michael, that sounds interesting. I'd like to have a look at > that. I'm new to fusebox, and I have to say I'm yet to be convinced > it's better than the way I do my own sites. But i inherited it, and > it's not going to be rebuilt any time soon, so I have to roll my > sleeves up and learn everything there is to know about it. That wont > do me any harm, so I'm not complaining. > > But as i said in my original post, I"m not sure how long the client's > going to tolerate my being slow as a wet week getting even the > simplest things done while i learn fusebox4.And my body can't take > too many more all-nighters just because I'm slow getting things done. > > So i am under a lot of pressure to find a quicker way to get across > this app. the previous guy used all the tricks and techniques in the > fusebox arsenal, so it looks nothing like the tutorials I've done > either. I've faced steep learning curves before, but this is about > the steepest I've ever come across. > > Thanks for your help Michael. Any help is much appreciated. > > Cheers > Mike Kear > Windsor, NSW, Australia > Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer > AFP Webworks > http://afpwebworks.com > ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month > > > On 7/25/07, Michael Dinowitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> If you have debug access I have an enhanced debug template that shows the >> full flow of an application. It includes standard templates, components, >> custom tags and includes in a full tree view. >> >> > > ~| Get involved in the latest ColdFusion discussions, product development sharing, and articles on the Adobe Labs wiki. http://labs/adobe.com/wiki/index.php/ColdFusion_8 Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:284539 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: Fusebox - is there a trick to following the flow?
He said it's a custom template. Like you set in the administrator. -Original Message- From: Tom Chiverton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 10:10 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox - is there a trick to following the flow? On Wednesday 25 Jul 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Michael, is this available somewhere? > > I'd really like to check it out. Turn on the relevant debug option in the CF admin. -- Tom Chiverton This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at St James's Court Brown Street Manchester M2 2JF. A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by the Law Society. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents. If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 8008. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com. ~| Get involved in the latest ColdFusion discussions, product development sharing, and articles on the Adobe Labs wiki. http://labs/adobe.com/wiki/index.php/ColdFusion_8 Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:284540 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Fusebox - is there a trick to following the flow?
On Wednesday 25 Jul 2007, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Michael, is this available somewhere? > > I'd really like to check it out. Turn on the relevant debug option in the CF admin. -- Tom Chiverton This email is sent for and on behalf of Halliwells LLP. Halliwells LLP is a limited liability partnership registered in England and Wales under registered number OC307980 whose registered office address is at St James's Court Brown Street Manchester M2 2JF. A list of members is available for inspection at the registered office. Any reference to a partner in relation to Halliwells LLP means a member of Halliwells LLP. Regulated by the Law Society. CONFIDENTIALITY This email is intended only for the use of the addressee named above and may be confidential or legally privileged. If you are not the addressee you must not read it and must not use any information contained in nor copy it nor inform any person other than Halliwells LLP or the addressee of its existence or contents. If you have received this email in error please delete it and notify Halliwells LLP IT Department on 0870 365 8008. For more information about Halliwells LLP visit www.halliwells.com. ~| Download the latest ColdFusion 8 utilities including Report Builder, plug-ins for Eclipse and Dreamweaver updates. http;//www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs%5adobecf8%5Fbeta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:284534 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: Fusebox - is there a trick to following the flow?
Michael, is this available somewhere? I'd really like to check it out. -Original Message- From: Michael Dinowitz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 9:13 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox - is there a trick to following the flow? If you have debug access I have an enhanced debug template that shows the full flow of an application. It includes standard templates, components, custom tags and includes in a full tree view. ~| Check out the new features and enhancements in the latest product release - download the "What's New PDF" now http://download.macromedia.com/pub/labs/coldfusion/cf8_beta_whatsnew_052907.pdf Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:284531 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Fusebox - is there a trick to following the flow?
Thanks Michael, that sounds interesting. I'd like to have a look at that. I'm new to fusebox, and I have to say I'm yet to be convinced it's better than the way I do my own sites. But i inherited it, and it's not going to be rebuilt any time soon, so I have to roll my sleeves up and learn everything there is to know about it. That wont do me any harm, so I'm not complaining. But as i said in my original post, I"m not sure how long the client's going to tolerate my being slow as a wet week getting even the simplest things done while i learn fusebox4.And my body can't take too many more all-nighters just because I'm slow getting things done. So i am under a lot of pressure to find a quicker way to get across this app. the previous guy used all the tricks and techniques in the fusebox arsenal, so it looks nothing like the tutorials I've done either. I've faced steep learning curves before, but this is about the steepest I've ever come across. Thanks for your help Michael. Any help is much appreciated. Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month On 7/25/07, Michael Dinowitz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > If you have debug access I have an enhanced debug template that shows the > full flow of an application. It includes standard templates, components, > custom tags and includes in a full tree view. > > ~| Download the latest ColdFusion 8 utilities including Report Builder, plug-ins for Eclipse and Dreamweaver updates. http;//www.adobe.com/cfusion/entitlement/index.cfm?e=labs%5adobecf8%5Fbeta Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:284523 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Fusebox - is there a trick to following the flow?
If you have debug access I have an enhanced debug template that shows the full flow of an application. It includes standard templates, components, custom tags and includes in a full tree view. ~| Get involved in the latest ColdFusion discussions, product development sharing, and articles on the Adobe Labs wiki. http://labs/adobe.com/wiki/index.php/ColdFusion_8 Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:284521 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: Fusebox - is there a trick to following the flow?
I'd say the debugging information with order of execution and execution times and templates and paths is most useful for this. It tells you what templates are being executed and where. -Original Message- From: Mike Kear [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, July 25, 2007 8:29 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: Fusebox - is there a trick to following the flow? I have inherited a fusebox4.0 app to maintain that has dozens of circuits that are reused all over the place. I know that's how fusebox is supposed to work, and it makes sense to reuse the fuses, but wow it takes AGES to follow the flow of the program. And i end up with dozens of files open, all called circuit.xml.cfm so its easy to make a mistake following it all along. For example I have to figure out how something works, so i can maintain it, or build something else similar. In order to find out how the task works, i follow one xml file through, seeing dozens of fuses, all of which i have to go to, open the circuits.xml.cfm relating to it, follow that one along, then open more. By the time i've got to the final, actual coldfusoin type tags relating to the functionality, i've almost forgotten what it was i started out to do. Is there a shortcut to working out how everything's bolted together? If i keep taking hours to work out the simplest things i'm not going to last long on this assignment. -- Cheers Mike Kear Windsor, NSW, Australia Adobe Certified Advanced ColdFusion Developer AFP Webworks http://afpwebworks.com ColdFusion, PHP, ASP, ASP.NET hosting from AUD$15/month ~| Enterprise web applications, build robust, secure scalable apps today - Try it now ColdFusion Today ColdFusion 8 beta - Build next generation apps Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:284520 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Fusebox 4 question
Aaaa... Ok. That makes sense. :) Thanks. Barney Boisvert wrote: > The problem is that in development mode, the whole memory structure is > rebuilt from scratch (after being deleted) each request. If a request > builds it's version, and then during processing the next request > thrashes it, you get lots of weird errors. That's what you were > seeing. > > cheers, > barneyb ~| Macromedia ColdFusion MX7 Upgrade to MX7 & experience time-saving features, more productivity. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJW Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:283762 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Fusebox 4 question
You *think* you were the only one accesssing it. ;) The problem you describe (corrupted memory structures) is exactly the symptom of multi-threaded access to a non-production Fusebox app. Why I didn't mention that up front, I can't say, guess I just assumed (and when you assume...). The problem is that in development mode, the whole memory structure is rebuilt from scratch (after being deleted) each request. If a request builds it's version, and then during processing the next request thrashes it, you get lots of weird errors. That's what you were seeing. cheers, barneyb On 7/13/07, Phillip M. Vector <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Got it fixed by putting it from development to production. > > I didn't think it really mattered due to either it's on the local > machine or on a live server if I was the only one accessing it and I > didn't mind waiting the longer time while it compiles. > > I guess it does matter. :) Thanks for the help. :) > > Phillip M. Vector wrote: > > Yup. It's loading the correct files. > > > > and yeah, with identical code, the only thing I can figure is the server > > somehow blocking something. > > > > Barney Boisvert wrote: > >> Sounds like it's looking for the main circuit inside it's internal > >> data structures, and not finding it. How that could happen with > >> identical code, I'm not sure. You've double checked that all the > >> files you think you're using are the ones that are actually being > >> used? > >> > >> On 7/13/07, Phillip M. Vector <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> I did the structDelete and that fixed the main error. Thank you. :) > >>> > >>> Now, if you are up to it, is another error I'm now getting (again, I'm > >>> not getting it in the local server). > >>> > >>> "Element Main is undefined in a CFML structure referenced as part of an > >>> expression." > >>> > >>> Can you explain this in laymens terms? :) > >>> > >>> I believe the code doing this is.. > >>> > >>> >>> framespacing="0"> > >>> >>> framespacing="0"> > >>> >>> scrolling=Auto noresize> > >>> >>> scrolling=No noresize> > >>> > >>>>>> noresize> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> with self being = "index.cfm?fuseaction=" > >>> > >>> > >>> Barney Boisvert wrote: > Are you reloading the fusebox when you deploy? Or you might try > putting structDelete(application, "fusebox", false) in index.cfm, > running it once, and then removing it, just to ensure you've got a > pristine memory state. > > cheers, > barneyb > > On 7/13/07, Phillip M. Vector <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > The parameter is there. Also, the core files are a direct copy from my > > local. So logically, it should work. > > > > > >> > > > > > > ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:283759 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Fusebox 4 question
Got it fixed by putting it from development to production. I didn't think it really mattered due to either it's on the local machine or on a live server if I was the only one accessing it and I didn't mind waiting the longer time while it compiles. I guess it does matter. :) Thanks for the help. :) Phillip M. Vector wrote: > Yup. It's loading the correct files. > > and yeah, with identical code, the only thing I can figure is the server > somehow blocking something. > > Barney Boisvert wrote: >> Sounds like it's looking for the main circuit inside it's internal >> data structures, and not finding it. How that could happen with >> identical code, I'm not sure. You've double checked that all the >> files you think you're using are the ones that are actually being >> used? >> >> On 7/13/07, Phillip M. Vector <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> I did the structDelete and that fixed the main error. Thank you. :) >>> >>> Now, if you are up to it, is another error I'm now getting (again, I'm >>> not getting it in the local server). >>> >>> "Element Main is undefined in a CFML structure referenced as part of an >>> expression." >>> >>> Can you explain this in laymens terms? :) >>> >>> I believe the code doing this is.. >>> >>> >> framespacing="0"> >>> >> framespacing="0"> >>> >> scrolling=Auto noresize> >>> >> scrolling=No noresize> >>> >>> >> noresize> >>> >>> >>> >>> with self being = "index.cfm?fuseaction=" >>> >>> >>> Barney Boisvert wrote: Are you reloading the fusebox when you deploy? Or you might try putting structDelete(application, "fusebox", false) in index.cfm, running it once, and then removing it, just to ensure you've got a pristine memory state. cheers, barneyb On 7/13/07, Phillip M. Vector <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The parameter is there. Also, the core files are a direct copy from my > local. So logically, it should work. > > >> > > ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade & integrate Adobe Coldfusion MX7 with Flex 2 http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:283701 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Fusebox 4 question
Yup. It's loading the correct files. and yeah, with identical code, the only thing I can figure is the server somehow blocking something. Barney Boisvert wrote: > Sounds like it's looking for the main circuit inside it's internal > data structures, and not finding it. How that could happen with > identical code, I'm not sure. You've double checked that all the > files you think you're using are the ones that are actually being > used? > > On 7/13/07, Phillip M. Vector <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> I did the structDelete and that fixed the main error. Thank you. :) >> >> Now, if you are up to it, is another error I'm now getting (again, I'm >> not getting it in the local server). >> >> "Element Main is undefined in a CFML structure referenced as part of an >> expression." >> >> Can you explain this in laymens terms? :) >> >> I believe the code doing this is.. >> >> > framespacing="0"> >> > framespacing="0"> >> > scrolling=Auto noresize> >> > scrolling=No noresize> >> >> >> >> >> >> with self being = "index.cfm?fuseaction=" >> >> >> Barney Boisvert wrote: >>> Are you reloading the fusebox when you deploy? Or you might try >>> putting structDelete(application, "fusebox", false) in index.cfm, >>> running it once, and then removing it, just to ensure you've got a >>> pristine memory state. >>> >>> cheers, >>> barneyb >>> >>> On 7/13/07, Phillip M. Vector <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: The parameter is there. Also, the core files are a direct copy from my local. So logically, it should work. >> > > ~| ColdFusion MX7 and Flex 2 Build sales & marketing dashboard RIAâs for your business. Upgrade now http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2?sdid=RVJT Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:283689 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Fusebox 4 question
Sounds like it's looking for the main circuit inside it's internal data structures, and not finding it. How that could happen with identical code, I'm not sure. You've double checked that all the files you think you're using are the ones that are actually being used? On 7/13/07, Phillip M. Vector <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I did the structDelete and that fixed the main error. Thank you. :) > > Now, if you are up to it, is another error I'm now getting (again, I'm > not getting it in the local server). > > "Element Main is undefined in a CFML structure referenced as part of an > expression." > > Can you explain this in laymens terms? :) > > I believe the code doing this is.. > > > framespacing="0"> > noresize> > scrolling=No noresize> > > > > > > with self being = "index.cfm?fuseaction=" > > > Barney Boisvert wrote: > > Are you reloading the fusebox when you deploy? Or you might try > > putting structDelete(application, "fusebox", false) in index.cfm, > > running it once, and then removing it, just to ensure you've got a > > pristine memory state. > > > > cheers, > > barneyb > > > > On 7/13/07, Phillip M. Vector <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >> The parameter is there. Also, the core files are a direct copy from my > >> local. So logically, it should work. > >> > >> > > > > ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 & MX7 integration & create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJQ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:283687 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Fusebox 4 question
I did the structDelete and that fixed the main error. Thank you. :) Now, if you are up to it, is another error I'm now getting (again, I'm not getting it in the local server). "Element Main is undefined in a CFML structure referenced as part of an expression." Can you explain this in laymens terms? :) I believe the code doing this is.. with self being = "index.cfm?fuseaction=" Barney Boisvert wrote: > Are you reloading the fusebox when you deploy? Or you might try > putting structDelete(application, "fusebox", false) in index.cfm, > running it once, and then removing it, just to ensure you've got a > pristine memory state. > > cheers, > barneyb > > On 7/13/07, Phillip M. Vector <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> The parameter is there. Also, the core files are a direct copy from my >> local. So logically, it should work. >> >> > ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:283685 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Fusebox 4 question
Are you reloading the fusebox when you deploy? Or you might try putting structDelete(application, "fusebox", false) in index.cfm, running it once, and then removing it, just to ensure you've got a pristine memory state. cheers, barneyb On 7/13/07, Phillip M. Vector <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The parameter is there. Also, the core files are a direct copy from my > local. So logically, it should work. > > -- Barney Boisvert [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.barneyb.com/ Got Gmail? I have 100 invites. ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 & Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:283684 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Fusebox 4 question
The parameter is there. Also, the core files are a direct copy from my local. So logically, it should work. Barney Boisvert wrote: > Why you're getting this error, I'm not 100% sure, but I'd bet it's > because you have different versions of the core files. If you add a > parameter in fusebox.xml named 'parseWithComments', that should take > care of the issue, however. > > cheers, > banreyb > > On 7/13/07, Phillip M. Vector <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> When I run an app I made on my local server, it works fine. >> >> But when I upload it to a server I host with, I get this error. >> >> "Element FUSEBOX.PARSEWITHCOMMENTS is undefined in APPLICATION." >> >> The layout I have is >> >> www >>-- index.cfm >> Application.cfm >> Data >>-- fusebox.xml and all fusebox/circuit files and such. >> >> I don't know if that is the problem or not.. Can someone point me to >> where it sets fusebox.parsewithcomments so I can perhaps see what is >> wrong? I may have to set it manually or move it from the data directory >> to the www directory. >> >> BTW, my index file includes.. >> >> >> >> >> So I already set it to look in the data directory. >> > > ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 & Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:283683 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Fusebox 4 question
Why you're getting this error, I'm not 100% sure, but I'd bet it's because you have different versions of the core files. If you add a parameter in fusebox.xml named 'parseWithComments', that should take care of the issue, however. cheers, banreyb On 7/13/07, Phillip M. Vector <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > When I run an app I made on my local server, it works fine. > > But when I upload it to a server I host with, I get this error. > > "Element FUSEBOX.PARSEWITHCOMMENTS is undefined in APPLICATION." > > The layout I have is > > www >-- index.cfm > Application.cfm > Data >-- fusebox.xml and all fusebox/circuit files and such. > > I don't know if that is the problem or not.. Can someone point me to > where it sets fusebox.parsewithcomments so I can perhaps see what is > wrong? I may have to set it manually or move it from the data directory > to the www directory. > > BTW, my index file includes.. > > > > > So I already set it to look in the data directory. > -- Barney Boisvert [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.barneyb.com/ Got Gmail? I have 100 invites. ~| ColdFusion MX7 and Flex 2 Build sales & marketing dashboard RIAâs for your business. Upgrade now http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2?sdid=RVJT Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:283681 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Fusebox 5 install problem - help, please
On 5/18/07, Sandra Clark <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Make sure your Fusebox_application_path in index.cfm points to the skeleton > path. > > If I am reading your email message correctly. Thanks, Sandra I think the problem, which I didn't probably provide enough details for, was that this issue occurs when the virtual directory points to a location on a network share on another computer. I don't have any problems if everything is on the same machine and accessed via localhost. Thanks to Sean Corfield for this information. Stephen ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:278702 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Fusebox Help
Also for FB4, make sure you don't have multiple fusebox apps using the same CF application name. FB4 and 4.1 store the application settings etc. from fusebox.xml and circuit.xml files in the structure Application.fusebox -- only one per cf applicationname. If 2 fusebox apps share the same application name, they will overwrite each other's app structure. - David On 5/15/07, Jordan Michaels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Just to follow up on this, I think Qasim's suggestion was right on the > mark. I updated that Fusebox setting, cleared all the parsed files, and > started surfing the site again. The random errors we were getting no > longer appear present, and I'm crossing my fingers hoping they don't > return. > > Thanks Qasim! > > Warm regards, > Jordan Michaels > Vivio Technologies > http://www.viviotech.net/ > BlueDragon Alliance Member > > > Jordan Michaels wrote: > > Hello Qasim, > > > > Thank you for this. I'm learning a lot about Fusebox as I work on this > > project. =) > > > > The fusebox.xml.cfm has the mode set to Development. I will try to do my > > research on what effect this has on the application as a while, but any > > additional pointers you could provide would be greatly appreciated! > > > > Thank you for this! > > > > Warm regards, > > Jordan Michaels > > Vivio Technologies > > http://www.viviotech.net/ > > BlueDragon Alliance Member > ~| Create Web Applications With ColdFusion MX7 & Flex 2. Build powerful, scalable RIAs. Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJS Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:278666 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: Fusebox 5 install problem - help, please
Make sure your Fusebox_application_path in index.cfm points to the skeleton path. If I am reading your email message correctly. Sandra Clark = http://www.shayna.com Training and Consulting in CSS and Accessibility Team Fusebox -Original Message- From: Stephen Hait [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, May 18, 2007 5:07 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: OT: Fusebox 5 install problem - help, please Sorry if this is off-topic. I wanted to install and try Fusebox 5. On my development system I've got a virtual directory configured named cf2 using IE6 running CFMX. I downloaded the FB 5.1 core files, extracted them from the archive and copied the fusebox5 directory to the root of the cf2 directory. Then I downloaded the FB5 skeleton app files, extracted them from the archive and copied the skeleton directory also to the root of the cf2 directory as per the readme.txt files (I think). I have both index.html and index.cfm files in the root of the cf2 directory and I can open both successfully in a browser at http://cf2/index.html and http://cf2/index.cfm. If I try to open http://cf2/skeleton/ I get an error: "missing fusebox.xml" The file "fusebox.xml" could not be found in the directory /ralj/cf2/skeleton/. Any idea what I'm doing wrong or how to get this working? Thanks in advance for any ideas. Stephen ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 & MX7 integration & create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJQ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:278653 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Fusebox Help
Jordan, I am glad to be of help. There are several execution modes that govern a fusebox application lifecyle. It would definitely help you to look into this brief documenation. http://www.fusebox.org/index.cfm?fuseaction=documentation.WhatsNewInFusebox5 Although this mainly discusses Fusebox 5, but you will see various execution option for Fusebox 4 under "Execution Mode" section. Thanks Qasim On 5/15/07, Jordan Michaels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Just to follow up on this, I think Qasim's suggestion was right on the > mark. I updated that Fusebox setting, cleared all the parsed files, and > started surfing the site again. The random errors we were getting no > longer appear present, and I'm crossing my fingers hoping they don't > return. > > Thanks Qasim! > > Warm regards, > Jordan Michaels > Vivio Technologies > http://www.viviotech.net/ > BlueDragon Alliance Member > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Jordan Michaels wrote: > > Hello Qasim, > > > > Thank you for this. I'm learning a lot about Fusebox as I work on this > > project. =) > > > > The fusebox.xml.cfm has the mode set to Development. I will try to do my > > research on what effect this has on the application as a while, but any > > additional pointers you could provide would be greatly appreciated! > > > > Thank you for this! > > > > Warm regards, > > Jordan Michaels > > Vivio Technologies > > http://www.viviotech.net/ > > BlueDragon Alliance Member > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Qasim Rasheed wrote: > >> Jordan, > >> > >> The autogenerated files should be in the parsed directory under your > >> application root. This is where fusebox keeps generated files after it > has > >> gone through the compile process. If your site in development mode ( > i.e. > >> mode parameter in fusebox.xml.cfm file? > >> > >> Thanks > >> > >> Qasim > >> > >> On 5/14/07, Jordan Michaels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>> There we go. Fusebox 4. Thanks Josh. > >>> > >>> I completely agree with your comments as well. I'm not trying to imply > >>> anything about the stability of fusebox, but since neither I, or > anyone > >>> in my shop has spent any large amounts of time working with Fusebox. I > >>> guess I was just wondering if anyone had seen this kind of behavior > >>> before. > >>> > >>> My (limited?) understanding of fusebox suggests that there are some > >>> pages which are interpreted, then written to the file system. I'm > >>> wondering if these seemingly random errors have anything to do with > that > >>> process. Like perhaps wherever the problem lies is in the process that > >>> creates these files? Perhaps this process is not able to finish, or is > >>> finishing incorrectly each time the page is hit... and that results in > >>> the random code errors? > >>> > >>> That is where my thoughts are taking me at the moment anyway... > >>> > >>> Any insights anyone has would be immensely appreciated. ;) > >>> > >>> Warm regards, > >>> Jordan Michaels > >>> Vivio Technologies > >>> http://www.viviotech.net/ > >>> BlueDragon Alliance Member > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>> > >>> > >>> Josh Nathanson wrote: > > Has anyone seen this kind of behavior in a Fusebox site before? Any > > suggestions on where I should start looking for a problem cause? > Since > > the errors appear to be random (go to page, click a link, get random > > error - go to page, click same link, get different random error) I'm > >>> not > > sure where to even begin. > Jordan - the best way to at least figure out the version is to look > for > index.cfm in the root, open that file and see which core file it's > >>> calling > (assuming they're using index.cfm as the main template). > > Fusebox in itself is not inherently buggy, but like any other > framework, > poor coding will lead to poor results. > > -- Josh > > > > >> > > > > > > ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:278238 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: Fusebox Help
Jordan, For Fusebox 4, as a precaution, when you move a site to production, make sure you change the mode to Production and remove all Parsed files before running them. When in production mode, certain items are not checked and parsed files are run as is. Do not run a production environment in development mode. It is not thread safe and you will run into problems. Sandra Clark = http://www.shayna.com Training and Consulting in CSS and Accessibility Team Fusebox -Original Message- From: Jordan Michaels [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 15, 2007 5:40 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox Help Just to follow up on this, I think Qasim's suggestion was right on the mark. I updated that Fusebox setting, cleared all the parsed files, and started surfing the site again. The random errors we were getting no longer appear present, and I'm crossing my fingers hoping they don't return. Thanks Qasim! Warm regards, Jordan Michaels Vivio Technologies http://www.viviotech.net/ BlueDragon Alliance Member [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jordan Michaels wrote: > Hello Qasim, > > Thank you for this. I'm learning a lot about Fusebox as I work on this > project. =) > > The fusebox.xml.cfm has the mode set to Development. I will try to do my > research on what effect this has on the application as a while, but any > additional pointers you could provide would be greatly appreciated! > > Thank you for this! > > Warm regards, > Jordan Michaels > Vivio Technologies > http://www.viviotech.net/ > BlueDragon Alliance Member > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Qasim Rasheed wrote: >> Jordan, >> >> The autogenerated files should be in the parsed directory under your >> application root. This is where fusebox keeps generated files after it has >> gone through the compile process. If your site in development mode (i.e. >> mode parameter in fusebox.xml.cfm file? >> >> Thanks >> >> Qasim >> >> On 5/14/07, Jordan Michaels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> There we go. Fusebox 4. Thanks Josh. >>> >>> I completely agree with your comments as well. I'm not trying to imply >>> anything about the stability of fusebox, but since neither I, or anyone >>> in my shop has spent any large amounts of time working with Fusebox. I >>> guess I was just wondering if anyone had seen this kind of behavior >>> before. >>> >>> My (limited?) understanding of fusebox suggests that there are some >>> pages which are interpreted, then written to the file system. I'm >>> wondering if these seemingly random errors have anything to do with that >>> process. Like perhaps wherever the problem lies is in the process that >>> creates these files? Perhaps this process is not able to finish, or is >>> finishing incorrectly each time the page is hit... and that results in >>> the random code errors? >>> >>> That is where my thoughts are taking me at the moment anyway... >>> >>> Any insights anyone has would be immensely appreciated. ;) >>> >>> Warm regards, >>> Jordan Michaels >>> Vivio Technologies >>> http://www.viviotech.net/ >>> BlueDragon Alliance Member >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >>> >>> Josh Nathanson wrote: >>>>> Has anyone seen this kind of behavior in a Fusebox site before? Any >>>>> suggestions on where I should start looking for a problem cause? Since >>>>> the errors appear to be random (go to page, click a link, get random >>>>> error - go to page, click same link, get different random error) I'm >>> not >>>>> sure where to even begin. >>>> Jordan - the best way to at least figure out the version is to look for >>>> index.cfm in the root, open that file and see which core file it's >>> calling >>>> (assuming they're using index.cfm as the main template). >>>> >>>> Fusebox in itself is not inherently buggy, but like any other framework, >>>> poor coding will lead to poor results. >>>> >>>> -- Josh >>>> >>>> >>>> >> > > ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 The most significant release in over 10 years. Upgrade & see new features. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJR Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:278236 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Fusebox Help
Just to follow up on this, I think Qasim's suggestion was right on the mark. I updated that Fusebox setting, cleared all the parsed files, and started surfing the site again. The random errors we were getting no longer appear present, and I'm crossing my fingers hoping they don't return. Thanks Qasim! Warm regards, Jordan Michaels Vivio Technologies http://www.viviotech.net/ BlueDragon Alliance Member [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jordan Michaels wrote: > Hello Qasim, > > Thank you for this. I'm learning a lot about Fusebox as I work on this > project. =) > > The fusebox.xml.cfm has the mode set to Development. I will try to do my > research on what effect this has on the application as a while, but any > additional pointers you could provide would be greatly appreciated! > > Thank you for this! > > Warm regards, > Jordan Michaels > Vivio Technologies > http://www.viviotech.net/ > BlueDragon Alliance Member > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Qasim Rasheed wrote: >> Jordan, >> >> The autogenerated files should be in the parsed directory under your >> application root. This is where fusebox keeps generated files after it has >> gone through the compile process. If your site in development mode (i.e. >> mode parameter in fusebox.xml.cfm file? >> >> Thanks >> >> Qasim >> >> On 5/14/07, Jordan Michaels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>> There we go. Fusebox 4. Thanks Josh. >>> >>> I completely agree with your comments as well. I'm not trying to imply >>> anything about the stability of fusebox, but since neither I, or anyone >>> in my shop has spent any large amounts of time working with Fusebox. I >>> guess I was just wondering if anyone had seen this kind of behavior >>> before. >>> >>> My (limited?) understanding of fusebox suggests that there are some >>> pages which are interpreted, then written to the file system. I'm >>> wondering if these seemingly random errors have anything to do with that >>> process. Like perhaps wherever the problem lies is in the process that >>> creates these files? Perhaps this process is not able to finish, or is >>> finishing incorrectly each time the page is hit... and that results in >>> the random code errors? >>> >>> That is where my thoughts are taking me at the moment anyway... >>> >>> Any insights anyone has would be immensely appreciated. ;) >>> >>> Warm regards, >>> Jordan Michaels >>> Vivio Technologies >>> http://www.viviotech.net/ >>> BlueDragon Alliance Member >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >>> >>> >>> Josh Nathanson wrote: > Has anyone seen this kind of behavior in a Fusebox site before? Any > suggestions on where I should start looking for a problem cause? Since > the errors appear to be random (go to page, click a link, get random > error - go to page, click same link, get different random error) I'm >>> not > sure where to even begin. Jordan - the best way to at least figure out the version is to look for index.cfm in the root, open that file and see which core file it's >>> calling (assuming they're using index.cfm as the main template). Fusebox in itself is not inherently buggy, but like any other framework, poor coding will lead to poor results. -- Josh >> > > ~| Deploy Web Applications Quickly across the enterprise with ColdFusion MX7 & Flex 2 Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:278220 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Fusebox Help
Hello Qasim, Thank you for this. I'm learning a lot about Fusebox as I work on this project. =) The fusebox.xml.cfm has the mode set to Development. I will try to do my research on what effect this has on the application as a while, but any additional pointers you could provide would be greatly appreciated! Thank you for this! Warm regards, Jordan Michaels Vivio Technologies http://www.viviotech.net/ BlueDragon Alliance Member [EMAIL PROTECTED] Qasim Rasheed wrote: > Jordan, > > The autogenerated files should be in the parsed directory under your > application root. This is where fusebox keeps generated files after it has > gone through the compile process. If your site in development mode (i.e. > mode parameter in fusebox.xml.cfm file? > > Thanks > > Qasim > > On 5/14/07, Jordan Michaels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> There we go. Fusebox 4. Thanks Josh. >> >> I completely agree with your comments as well. I'm not trying to imply >> anything about the stability of fusebox, but since neither I, or anyone >> in my shop has spent any large amounts of time working with Fusebox. I >> guess I was just wondering if anyone had seen this kind of behavior >> before. >> >> My (limited?) understanding of fusebox suggests that there are some >> pages which are interpreted, then written to the file system. I'm >> wondering if these seemingly random errors have anything to do with that >> process. Like perhaps wherever the problem lies is in the process that >> creates these files? Perhaps this process is not able to finish, or is >> finishing incorrectly each time the page is hit... and that results in >> the random code errors? >> >> That is where my thoughts are taking me at the moment anyway... >> >> Any insights anyone has would be immensely appreciated. ;) >> >> Warm regards, >> Jordan Michaels >> Vivio Technologies >> http://www.viviotech.net/ >> BlueDragon Alliance Member >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >> >> Josh Nathanson wrote: Has anyone seen this kind of behavior in a Fusebox site before? Any suggestions on where I should start looking for a problem cause? Since the errors appear to be random (go to page, click a link, get random error - go to page, click same link, get different random error) I'm >> not sure where to even begin. >>> Jordan - the best way to at least figure out the version is to look for >>> index.cfm in the root, open that file and see which core file it's >> calling >>> (assuming they're using index.cfm as the main template). >>> >>> Fusebox in itself is not inherently buggy, but like any other framework, >>> poor coding will lead to poor results. >>> >>> -- Josh >>> >>> >>> >> > > ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade & integrate Adobe Coldfusion MX7 with Flex 2 http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:278183 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Fusebox Help
Jordan, The autogenerated files should be in the parsed directory under your application root. This is where fusebox keeps generated files after it has gone through the compile process. If your site in development mode (i.e. mode parameter in fusebox.xml.cfm file? Thanks Qasim On 5/14/07, Jordan Michaels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > There we go. Fusebox 4. Thanks Josh. > > I completely agree with your comments as well. I'm not trying to imply > anything about the stability of fusebox, but since neither I, or anyone > in my shop has spent any large amounts of time working with Fusebox. I > guess I was just wondering if anyone had seen this kind of behavior > before. > > My (limited?) understanding of fusebox suggests that there are some > pages which are interpreted, then written to the file system. I'm > wondering if these seemingly random errors have anything to do with that > process. Like perhaps wherever the problem lies is in the process that > creates these files? Perhaps this process is not able to finish, or is > finishing incorrectly each time the page is hit... and that results in > the random code errors? > > That is where my thoughts are taking me at the moment anyway... > > Any insights anyone has would be immensely appreciated. ;) > > Warm regards, > Jordan Michaels > Vivio Technologies > http://www.viviotech.net/ > BlueDragon Alliance Member > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Josh Nathanson wrote: > >> Has anyone seen this kind of behavior in a Fusebox site before? Any > >> suggestions on where I should start looking for a problem cause? Since > >> the errors appear to be random (go to page, click a link, get random > >> error - go to page, click same link, get different random error) I'm > not > >> sure where to even begin. > > > > Jordan - the best way to at least figure out the version is to look for > > index.cfm in the root, open that file and see which core file it's > calling > > (assuming they're using index.cfm as the main template). > > > > Fusebox in itself is not inherently buggy, but like any other framework, > > poor coding will lead to poor results. > > > > -- Josh > > > > > > > > ~| Macromedia ColdFusion MX7 Upgrade to MX7 & experience time-saving features, more productivity. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJW Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:278113 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Fusebox Help
> There we go. Fusebox 4. Thanks Josh. Unfortunately my experience is with FB3. FB4 is quite different in that it uses XML files to configure the logic flow. That's about all I know about it. I don't know anything about it writing files to the file system, although it may well do that. I seem to recall hearing something about that. Maybe you could post one of these random error messages, and someone with more FB4+ experience could help out. Also check out Fusebox.org, there's lots of information there. -- Josh ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 & MX7 integration & create powerful cross-platform RIAs http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJQ Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:278101 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Fusebox Help
There we go. Fusebox 4. Thanks Josh. I completely agree with your comments as well. I'm not trying to imply anything about the stability of fusebox, but since neither I, or anyone in my shop has spent any large amounts of time working with Fusebox. I guess I was just wondering if anyone had seen this kind of behavior before. My (limited?) understanding of fusebox suggests that there are some pages which are interpreted, then written to the file system. I'm wondering if these seemingly random errors have anything to do with that process. Like perhaps wherever the problem lies is in the process that creates these files? Perhaps this process is not able to finish, or is finishing incorrectly each time the page is hit... and that results in the random code errors? That is where my thoughts are taking me at the moment anyway... Any insights anyone has would be immensely appreciated. ;) Warm regards, Jordan Michaels Vivio Technologies http://www.viviotech.net/ BlueDragon Alliance Member [EMAIL PROTECTED] Josh Nathanson wrote: >> Has anyone seen this kind of behavior in a Fusebox site before? Any >> suggestions on where I should start looking for a problem cause? Since >> the errors appear to be random (go to page, click a link, get random >> error - go to page, click same link, get different random error) I'm not >> sure where to even begin. > > Jordan - the best way to at least figure out the version is to look for > index.cfm in the root, open that file and see which core file it's calling > (assuming they're using index.cfm as the main template). > > Fusebox in itself is not inherently buggy, but like any other framework, > poor coding will lead to poor results. > > -- Josh > > > ~| Create robust enterprise, web RIAs. Upgrade & integrate Adobe Coldfusion MX7 with Flex 2 http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJP Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:278097 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Fusebox Help
> Has anyone seen this kind of behavior in a Fusebox site before? Any > suggestions on where I should start looking for a problem cause? Since > the errors appear to be random (go to page, click a link, get random > error - go to page, click same link, get different random error) I'm not > sure where to even begin. Jordan - the best way to at least figure out the version is to look for index.cfm in the root, open that file and see which core file it's calling (assuming they're using index.cfm as the main template). Fusebox in itself is not inherently buggy, but like any other framework, poor coding will lead to poor results. -- Josh ~| Create Web Applications With ColdFusion MX7 & Flex 2. Build powerful, scalable RIAs. Free Trial http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=RVJS Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:278095 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Fusebox and .swf problem
On 4/1/07, John Beynon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > just make sure you reference your swf relative to the root index.cfm - > if your use httpwatch (http://www.httpwatch.com/) to show you what is > being loaded and you'll see the problem immediately, Yeah, it's almost certainly a path issue - Fusebox display fuses are executed in the context of the application root, not the directory containing the fuse, so you need to take that into account. -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive." -- Margaret Atwood ~| ColdFusion MX7 and Flex 2 Build sales & marketing dashboard RIAâs for your business. Upgrade now http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2?sdid=RVJT Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:274289 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Fusebox and .swf problem
just make sure you reference your swf relative to the root index.cfm - if your use httpwatch (http://www.httpwatch.com/) to show you what is being loaded and you'll see the problem immediately, john. On 4/1/07, Tom Rainey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Standard code below for embeding .swf file will not work within fusebox > application. It works fine as a static .cfm file. Any help greatly > appreciated. > > > codebase=" > http://fpdownload.macromedia.com/pub/shockwave/cabs/flash/swflash.cab#version=8,0,0,0 > " width="410" height="310" id="test6" align="middle"> > > > > > > value="#ff" /> > height="310" name="test6" align="middle" allowScriptAccess="sameDomain" > type="application/x-shockwave-flash" pluginspage=" > http://www.macromedia.com/go/getflashplayer"; /> > > > > ~| Macromedia ColdFusion MX7 Upgrade to MX7 & experience time-saving features, more productivity. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJW Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:274276 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Fusebox 5.1 + J2EE WAR deployment fails with encrypted templates.
Quasim, after you said it it seems so obvious. Thanks Tero On Mar 26, 2007, at 4:59 PM, Qasim Rasheed wrote: > Tero, > > It seems that you have encrypted fusebox.xml.cfm and other > circuit.xml.cfmfiles. Those are essentially just XML which has a .cfm > extension. > > HTH > > Qasim > > On 3/26/07, Tero Pikala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> >> Hi >> >> I'm testing Fusebox 5.1 application deployment as a WAR to JRun 4.0 >> >> I have recent FB 5.1 files and skeleton Fusebox 5.1 application from >> www.fusebox.org >> >> If I deploy it without encrypting source it works just fine. If I >> encrypt >> source I'm getting following error message: >> >> - >> - >> Element fusebox is undefined in a Java object of type class >> coldfusion.runtime.ApplicationScope referenced as >> >> The error occurred in >> C:\webroot\servletfilter\errortemplates\genericErrorMessage.cfm: >> line 2 >> Called from >> C:\webroot\servletfilter\errortemplates >> \fusebox.fuseboxXMLError.cfm: line >> 1 >> Called from C:\webroot\servletfilter\fusebox5 >> \fuseboxApplication.cfc: line >> 541 >> Called from C:\webroot\servletfilter\fusebox5\fusebox5.cfm: line 198 >> Called from C:\webroot\servletfilter\index.cfm: line 2 >> >> 1 : >> 2 : This is the template >> >> "#application >> [FUSEBOX_APPLICATION_KEY].errortemplatesPath##cfcatch.type#.cfm >> " >> 3 : An Error of type "#cfcatch.type#" has occurred >> 4 : #cfcatch.message# >> - >> - >> >> >> Is anybody familiar with this? In its potential usage we would >> definitely >> prefer encrypted templates if it can be fixed easily. >> >> >> Thanks >> >> >> >> Tero Pikala >> >> >> >> > > ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 The most significant release in over 10 years. Upgrade & see new features. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJR Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:273806 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Fusebox 5.1 + J2EE WAR deployment fails with encrypted templates.
Tero, It seems that you have encrypted fusebox.xml.cfm and other circuit.xml.cfmfiles. Those are essentially just XML which has a .cfm extension. HTH Qasim On 3/26/07, Tero Pikala <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi > > I'm testing Fusebox 5.1 application deployment as a WAR to JRun 4.0 > > I have recent FB 5.1 files and skeleton Fusebox 5.1 application from > www.fusebox.org > > If I deploy it without encrypting source it works just fine. If I encrypt > source I'm getting following error message: > > -- > Element fusebox is undefined in a Java object of type class > coldfusion.runtime.ApplicationScope referenced as > > The error occurred in > C:\webroot\servletfilter\errortemplates\genericErrorMessage.cfm: line 2 > Called from > C:\webroot\servletfilter\errortemplates\fusebox.fuseboxXMLError.cfm: line > 1 > Called from C:\webroot\servletfilter\fusebox5\fuseboxApplication.cfc: line > 541 > Called from C:\webroot\servletfilter\fusebox5\fusebox5.cfm: line 198 > Called from C:\webroot\servletfilter\index.cfm: line 2 > > 1 : > 2 : This is the template > > "#application[FUSEBOX_APPLICATION_KEY].errortemplatesPath##cfcatch.type#.cfm > " > 3 : An Error of type "#cfcatch.type#" has occurred > 4 : #cfcatch.message# > -- > > > Is anybody familiar with this? In its potential usage we would definitely > prefer encrypted templates if it can be fixed easily. > > > Thanks > > > > Tero Pikala > > > > ~| ColdFusion MX7 by Adobe® Dyncamically transform webcontent into Adobe PDF with new ColdFusion MX7. Free Trial. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion?sdid=RVJV Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:273738 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Fusebox and IIS6
Fixed. SESconverter.cfm has something in it that cf7 and IIS6 together don't
like (The code runs fine on CF7 on IIS5 and CF6 on IIS5). I replaced the file
with this bit of code at the top of the index.cfm file and it works now.
// note that you might have to manipulate the string first before you
can use it as an array
// note also that cgi.path_info might not be the right key on your
version of CF server
SESquerystring = cgi.path_info;
arQuerystring = ListToArray(SESquerystring,'/');
for ( qs = 1 ; qs lte ArrayLen(arQuerystring) ; qs = qs + 2 ) {
if ( qs lt ArrayLen(arQuerystring)-1 ) {
url[arQuerystring[qs]] = arQuerystring[qs+1];
}
}
~|
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Re: Fusebox 4 - What am I doing wrong?
Nevermind. It seems it was a ID-10-T error on my side. On 3/9/07, Chris Ditty <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I am trying to start a new project with FB4. No matter what I do, it > only pulls up the main circuit. I did something similar with FB3 a > few years ago, but I never had issues like this. > > fusebox.xml.cfm > > > > > > -- snip -- > > > circuit.xml.cfm > > http://www.yahoo.com/"; /> > > > > > > Calling url - /index.cfm?do.authID > > What am I missing? > ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 The most significant release in over 10 years. Upgrade & see new features. http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:272228 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Fusebox session wackiness in WWW.domainname.com and domainname.com
If the problem isn't solved, a band-aid fix might be to just redirect domainname.com/ to www.domainname.com/in your application.cfm >Sessions work fine when someone is on http://www.domainname.com. >However, the Flash developer added a link to an ad on the home page >that uses http://domainname.com (without the WWW). ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 & MX7 integration & create powerful cross-platform RIAs http:http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;56760587;14748456;a?http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=LVNU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:269871 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Fusebox Web Site Design Contest Announced
To echo what Matt said, I agree with you on Spec Work as well. What we disagree on is whether or not this specific contest is considered spec work. You feel it is, I feel it is not. Scott Stroz ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 & MX7 integration & create powerful cross-platform RIAs http:http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;56760587;14748456;a?http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=LVNU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:269595 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Fusebox Web Site Design Contest Announced
Andy, I apologize for replying before thinking about my replies. I was not meaning to get personal, although I can certainly understand that I came across as such. Again, I apologize. You are certainly entitled to your opinion, as am I entitled to mine. What angered me, and I would guess most others as well, is how you are telling us what's best for us, the community, based upon your personal belief/value system. Simply put, neither you, nor I, nor any other -individual- is entitled to determine what is best for the -community-. That is reserved for the community as a whole to decide. Now then, when it comes to spec work, I actually agree with you. Recently, one of my clients, after we had agreed to terms, pricing, etc on another new project for them, comes back a couple of weeks later and says "okay, I need a spec doc by in the morning". I told him that a spec doc wasn't part of the agreement, and it was going to cost X amount in addition to get it done. As hard as that is to do to a returning client, I did it because, like you, I won't do spec work for free. The problem here (other than the whole "what's good for the community" aspect) is that I cannot for the life me understand how you can consider a -community- project to be spec work. It isn't anything even close to spec work. It's a group of individuals, in this case designers, who are submitting their "ideas", which may or may not be used (as is the case in ALL -community- projects), in an effort to give back to the -community- out of gratitude for what the -community- has done for them in the past. Again, my apologies for making it personal, as that was most definitely not my intent. I responded *incorrectly* out of anger over being told by someone else what was good (or not good) for me. Matt On 2/12/07, Andy Matthews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I apologize for the last two emails I sent out. This conversation was > obviously over with and I started it up again. > > Please don't responsd to either of these. I'm the one being a jerk. > > -Original Message- > From: Andy Matthews [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 8:18 AM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: RE: Fusebox Web Site Design Contest Announced > > Matt... > > Why are you being a jerk? It's obvious to me that all you're trying to do > is > to stir up trouble. If you had taken even a few moments to read the links > that I posted in my second email, you would have read that there are LOADS > of orgranizations who feel the same way I do about spec work. > > So do ME a favor and don't make this personal. If you don't agree with me, > that's fine...I won't lose any sleep over it. > ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 & MX7 integration & create powerful cross-platform RIAs http:http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;56760587;14748456;a?http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=LVNU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:269580 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Fusebox Web Site Design Contest Announced
Well, I liked the idea. I am not a designer by no means of the word, but thought it would be fun to enter. I do not know how my design will fair against others with alot more experience than me, but hey at least I tried. I have never tried to design a page before and it made me think outside the box a little. After awhile coding gets a little mundane and this allowed for something new. I think contests are just fine, and the payment for the winner will be very good exposure, which in itself is priceless. Here is my submittals if anyone wants a peak. Take it easy on me thoughI am a noob at this :) http://www.shayna.com/fuseboxorgcontest/DougBrown_a.gif http://www.shayna.com/fuseboxorgcontest/DougBrown_b.gif Doug B. - Original Message - From: "Andy Matthews" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "CF-Talk" Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 7:19 AM Subject: RE: Fusebox Web Site Design Contest Announced > Again... > > Take a few moments to read what Jeffrey Zeldman has to say about "design > contests"? I'm sorry...did you say Jeffrey Who? Maybe I'm not the only one > who should be looking for another career. > > -Original Message- > From: Matt Quackenbush [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 4:15 PM > To: CF-Talk > Subject: Re: Fusebox Web Site Design Contest Announced > > Anyone with *any* business sense at all knows that contests are an > *extremely* good marketing/growth tool. Only the completely id10Tic people > in this world can even consider the notion that contests are bad. > > > On 2/9/07, Eric Haskins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > I just hope others that were thinking about contests don't pick this > > thread up on google searches. I really feel contests like these help > > all who participate > > > > Eric > > > > > > > ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 & MX7 integration & create powerful cross-platform RIAs http:http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;56760587;14748456;a?http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=LVNU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:269498 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: Fusebox Web Site Design Contest Announced
I apologize for the last two emails I sent out. This conversation was obviously over with and I started it up again. Please don't responsd to either of these. I'm the one being a jerk. -Original Message- From: Andy Matthews [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, February 12, 2007 8:18 AM To: CF-Talk Subject: RE: Fusebox Web Site Design Contest Announced Matt... Why are you being a jerk? It's obvious to me that all you're trying to do is to stir up trouble. If you had taken even a few moments to read the links that I posted in my second email, you would have read that there are LOADS of orgranizations who feel the same way I do about spec work. So do ME a favor and don't make this personal. If you don't agree with me, that's fine...I won't lose any sleep over it. -Original Message- From: Matt Quackenbush [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 4:13 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox Web Site Design Contest Announced Hell, if I had any design talent (which I unfortunately do not, and have given up trying to acquire it), I'd enter the contest just to make sure my name was published. That way I could be guaranteed that you would never call me for work. ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 & MX7 integration & create powerful cross-platform RIAs http:http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;56760587;14748456;a?http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=LVNU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:269497 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: Fusebox Web Site Design Contest Announced
Again... Take a few moments to read what Jeffrey Zeldman has to say about "design contests"? I'm sorry...did you say Jeffrey Who? Maybe I'm not the only one who should be looking for another career. -Original Message- From: Matt Quackenbush [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 4:15 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox Web Site Design Contest Announced Anyone with *any* business sense at all knows that contests are an *extremely* good marketing/growth tool. Only the completely id10Tic people in this world can even consider the notion that contests are bad. On 2/9/07, Eric Haskins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I just hope others that were thinking about contests don't pick this > thread up on google searches. I really feel contests like these help > all who participate > > Eric > ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 & MX7 integration & create powerful cross-platform RIAs http:http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;56760587;14748456;a?http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=LVNU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:269496 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
RE: Fusebox Web Site Design Contest Announced
Matt... Why are you being a jerk? It's obvious to me that all you're trying to do is to stir up trouble. If you had taken even a few moments to read the links that I posted in my second email, you would have read that there are LOADS of orgranizations who feel the same way I do about spec work. So do ME a favor and don't make this personal. If you don't agree with me, that's fine...I won't lose any sleep over it. -Original Message- From: Matt Quackenbush [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 09, 2007 4:13 PM To: CF-Talk Subject: Re: Fusebox Web Site Design Contest Announced Hell, if I had any design talent (which I unfortunately do not, and have given up trying to acquire it), I'd enter the contest just to make sure my name was published. That way I could be guaranteed that you would never call me for work. ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 & MX7 integration & create powerful cross-platform RIAs http:http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;56760587;14748456;a?http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=LVNU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:269495 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
Re: Fusebox Web Site Design Contest Announced
On 2/9/07, Andy Matthews <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > This is basically asking people to work for free, with only a chance of > the > possibility of winning the contest. It's called Spec Work and it's a bad > practice. > > no, it's called a *contest*. Enter it, don't enter it, it's up to you. I don't do spec work either, but there's nothing wrong with a design contest for a site that serves all of us. -- mac jordan home: www.kestrel.org work: www.webhorus.net them: www.jordan-cats.org ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 & MX7 integration & create powerful cross-platform RIAs http:http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;56760587;14748456;a?http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=LVNU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:269395 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Fusebox Web Site Design Contest Announced
OK, I've watched this thread all day, reading the various posts, cringing at the various name calling and what not, and (though we've moved far into community territory) I want to chime in. Andy Matthews is a fine developer, designer, and an all around nice guy. A month ago my employer hired Andy as another Senior Developer, who sits next to me everyday. I've known Andy for a little over a year, since I moved to Nashville, because he is a very active member of our ColdFusion User Group. He has a passion for development, a great love of good design, and actively supports many open source projects in some way shape and fashion, typically in an evangelical way and in sharing his knowledge. I read the various links he passed on today, paying attention to the message of each, and agree with most of what is put forth in the posts, when put into the context of a commercial venture. I don't think that this situation/contest is in line with Andy's fears. I am very much supporting Sean's (and other's) standpoints, in that this contest is in support of a widely accepted and utilized open source framework. Fusebox may now be under the stewardship of TeraTech, but it has never been about commercial profit or gain, in and of itself, and I doubt that TeraTech has any intentions of doing anything differently in that respect. 'Spec Work' in support of an entirely non-commercial venture, to the benefit of any community et al, is Pro Bono work, even within the context of a contest. Andy, I understand and agree with your overall view point, but I disagree with your stance in this context. And, I may be wrong, but I'm fairly sure many here probably feel the same way. The beautiful thing is, we have a right to our own opinions. I'll step off my soapbox now. If anyone wants to throw some mud in my direction, then please do it off list so everyone can get back to the core purpose of CF-Talk: Discussion on development with ColdFusion. P.S. Good Luck to anyone who participates in the contest. I'm not much of a designer (other than a love of CSS layout), otherwise I'd be all over it. I think the prizes being offered are outstanding, and should definitely make for some nice competition. -- Steve 'Cutter' Blades Adobe Certified Professional Macromedia ColdFusion MX 7 Advanced Developer http://blog.cutterscrossing.com "The Past is a Memory The Future a Dream But Today is a Gift That's why they call it The Present" ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 & MX7 integration & create powerful cross-platform RIAs http:http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;56760587;14748456;a?http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=LVNU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:269394 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=11502.10531.4
Re: Fusebox Web Site Design Contest Announced
On 2/9/07, Dave Watts <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Subject: Re: Fusebox Web Site Design Contest Announced > > Maybe this topic, being completely non-technical, could go to cf-community? ok technically speaking, Claude's a ah, nevermind. of course, you're right :) -- Charlie Griefer "...All the world shall be your enemy, Prince with a Thousand Enemies, and whenever they catch you, they will kill you. But first they must catch you, digger, listener, runner, prince with a swift warning. Be cunning and full of tricks and your people shall never be destroyed." ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 & MX7 integration & create powerful cross-platform RIAs http:http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;56760587;14748456;a?http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=LVNU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:269387 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
RE: Fusebox Web Site Design Contest Announced
> Subject: Re: Fusebox Web Site Design Contest Announced Maybe this topic, being completely non-technical, could go to cf-community? Dave Watts, CTO, Fig Leaf Software http://www.figleaf.com/ Fig Leaf Software provides the highest caliber vendor-authorized instruction at our training centers in Washington DC, Atlanta, Chicago, Baltimore, Northern Virginia, or on-site at your location. Visit http://training.figleaf.com/ for more information! ~| Upgrade to Adobe ColdFusion MX7 Experience Flex 2 & MX7 integration & create powerful cross-platform RIAs http:http://ad.doubleclick.net/clk;56760587;14748456;a?http://www.adobe.com/products/coldfusion/flex2/?sdid=LVNU Archive: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/message.cfm/messageid:269385 Subscription: http://www.houseoffusion.com/groups/CF-Talk/subscribe.cfm Unsubscribe: http://www.houseoffusion.com/cf_lists/unsubscribe.cfm?user=89.70.4
