[cfaussie] Re: CFUG Melbourne May 2010. REMINDER, POSTPONED TO NEXT WEEK
Peter,(me) Paul, Andrew and Frank will be there from Cogstate tonight. On May 26, 4:57 pm, "Dale Fraser" wrote: > We are located at 255 Bourke Street. > > Which is kinda in the Mall. As the mall starts half way down that block. > > The building is on the corner of Bourke & Swanston > > But the entrance is on the south side of Bourke, east of Swanston opposite > the Telstra T-Life store > > I will put a sign on the door, but if you cant find us, call me and I'll > come find you. > > 0407 861 089 > > Regards > Dale Fraser > > http://dale.fraser.id.auhttp://cfmldocs.comhttp://learncf.comhttp://flexcf.com > > -Original Message- > From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > > Of KC Kuok > Sent: Wednesday, 26 May 2010 4:44 PM > To: cfaussie > Subject: [cfaussie] Re: CFUG Melbourne May 2010. REMINDER, POSTPONED TO NEXT > WEEK > > Hi Peter, > > Could yourself or Dale give some sort of direction of which entrance/ > door to use to get into the office? > > Ta, > Chong > > On May 20, 10:13 am, Peter Robertson wrote: > > If you're attending the CFUG in Melbourne this month, please don't > > roll up tonight, we've postponed to next week to accommodate > > CogState's move and so there will also be a change of venue. Details > > follow: > > > This month Phil Haeusler is doing a presentation on FW/1 - Framework > > One, 'The Invisible Framework'. > > > FW/1 is a new framework lead by Sean Corfield. It leverages > > Application.cfc and some simple conventions to provide a 'full' MVC > > framework in a single file. > > > Intended to require near-zero configuration, FW/1 lets you build your > > application without worrying about a framework getting in your way. > > > The session will cover > > * Why bother with frameworks? > > * Yet another ColdFusion Framework > > * Getting started with FW/1 > > * Understanding the FW/1 lifecycle > > * But what is MVC? > > * Building a FW/1 app, and > > * Looking towards the next release of FW/1 v1.1 > > * So, should we bother with FW/1? > > > Phil has been an independant ColdFusion consultant in Melbourne for > > more than 10 years delivering on a vast number of solutions to public, > > private and startup clients predominately focusing on ColdFusion, Flex > > and other Adobe technologies. > > > Date: Thursday 27 May 2010 > > Time: 6:30 PM > > NEW Location: > > Level 2 > > 255 Bourke Street > > Melbourne, VIC, 3000 > > > RSVP: Please reply to this post if you are planning to attend so we > > know how many pizzas to order. > > > We look forward to seeing you all there. > > > Peter Robertson > > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "cfaussie" group. > > To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > For more options, visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "cfaussie" group. > To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group > athttp://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: CFUG Melbourne May 2010. REMINDER, POSTPONED TO NEXT WEEK
I'm here early, anyone around for a coffee? Sent from my mobile device On 27 May 2010 17:01, "sien" wrote: Peter,(me) Paul, Andrew and Frank will be there from Cogstate tonight. On May 26, 4:57 pm, "Dale Fraser" wrote: > We are located at 255 Bourke Street > http://dale.fraser.id.auhttp://cfmldocs.comhttp://learncf.comhttp:// flexcf.com > > -Original Message- > From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] ... > For more options, visit this group athttp:// groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To ... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
On 27/05/2010, at 11:59 AM, mpicker wrote: > We still haven't been able to fill your web developer position (for > those playing at home, Justin left here years ago), despite 3 or 4 > rounds of advertising. We only just finished another round. One of our contractors (lots of Flex and some CF experience) is based in Bathurst and hails from Dubbo*, send me a job description offline. On the other hand the whole point of CF is that it's easy to pick up, why not get someone experienced in another web langugage like PHP and train them up - if they're good they should start being useful after a few days. That's where new CF developers come from (Just in case you missed that talk with your parents). Robin * I actually used to live at the south end of Obley Rd, in fact so south that it was in Cumnock, sort of a satellite town of Dubbo... ROBIN HILLIARD Chief Technology Officer ro...@rocketboots.com.au RocketBoots Pty Ltd Level 11 189 Kent Street Sydney NSW 2001 Australia Phone +61 2 9323 2507 Facsimile +61 2 9323 2501 Mobile +61 418 414 341 www.rocketboots.com.au -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
On 27/05/2010, at 4:34 AM, Justin Carter wrote: > Adobe could solve > by getting their (existing) CF educational materials into colleges and > universities. This is easy to say, and much more complex in reality. Firstly I would be worried about a University that listened to vendors to decide what languages they were going to use to teach their students computer science and basic programming - and CF is not the language for this. Luckily I didn't come across one when I was at Macromedia trying to do this with CF. TAFEs have a different problem. Teaching specific technologies is part of their brief. There is some limited curriculum material available (based on the commercial courses) for vocational colleges to teach using the Adobe products, but what TAFEs need are teachers with the skills to teach these languages. For instance Crows Nest TAFE used to teach ColdFusion because they had someone there (I think Warren Finch?) who could. Adobe can't magic these people into being - they have to come from the community. If you're a contractor or a full timer looking to moonlight as an evening instructor, have you considered approaching your local TAFE or community college and offering to run a web development course? Emma Jones (nee Steer, some of you may remember her as the Canberra Macromedia UG manager for several years) has been having some success with Flash and the local TAFEs around Wangaratta. Maybe someone with some pedagogical bent could start a wiki for lesson plans and extra course material and ideas for people who wanted to get into this. > If the reason isn't due to a lack of available CF > developers then it's really something that is out of our hands as a > community (I think?) No, it's definitely something the community can do something about (if it really wants to) > Adobe either needs to get Evangelists or Sales > people talking to more CEO's/CIO's > or to spend some cash in relevant > publications to get the ColdFusion brand out there again. This is not how CEOs and CIOs make decisions, and Adobe don't put ads in papers because they know they don't work - it's a great way to spend a marketing budget, but not a good way to get results. I know, I tried with Macromedia's money once and it was rather embarrassing. Having active user groups and big conferences makes a big difference. Our presence at events in the broader web community helps. It's constant cosmic background radiation to reassure people that we're around. Robin ROBIN HILLIARD Chief Technology Officer ro...@rocketboots.com.au www.rocketboots.com.au RocketBoots Pty Ltd Level 11 189 Kent Street Sydney NSW 2001 Australia Phone +61 2 9323 2507 Facsimile +61 2 9323 2501 Mobile +61 418 414 341 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
> TAFEs have a different problem. Teaching specific technologies is part of > their brief. There is some limited curriculum material available (based on > the commercial courses) for vocational colleges to teach using the Adobe > products, but what TAFEs need are teachers with the skills to teach these > languages. me me me. That's how I was brought, kicking and screaming, to CF - I had to teach it. I've been looking, Robin, but no TAFE's are looking for experienced and qualified CF teachers in my city. You hear of one? let me know, OK? > Adobe can't magic these people into being - they have to come from the > community. If you're a contractor or a full timer looking to moonlight as an > evening instructor, have you considered approaching your local TAFE or > community college and offering to run a web development course? Emma Jones > (nee Steer, some of you may remember her as the Canberra Macromedia UG > manager for several years) has been having some success with Flash and the > local TAFEs around Wangaratta. Maybe someone with some pedagogical bent could > start a wiki for lesson plans and extra course material and ideas for people > who wanted to get into this. I would have thought that a barometer to do that would be the strength of short courses delivering this. Brisbane North TAFE (my employer until earlier this year) has sewn up the TAFE short course scene with their Adult Community Education courses (over a weekend or so). But to be honest, they get more go from lead-lighting and wine appreciation than computer languages. It's a Micky-Mouse operation and practically anyone can offer something to them. If they reckon their cut is worthwhile, they might listen. The only other way courses could be delivered out of the TAFE system is either accredited (you get a qualification - CertIII,Cert IV, Dip) and CF would be one platform to learn on or non-accredited specialist short courses. Both delivered out of faculty, not third-party (you have teachers with tenure to consider here). FYI Brisbane Nth (Ithaca campus) has IMHO the best reputation for IT for all the Brisbane TAFE's. I've designed courses while at QANTM up to Diploma level (it's not hard if you know what you're doing) that incorporated CF. There is a real need to do pre-testing before admittance - an aptitude test. At QANTM any Diploma course, the hard break-even (class size/enrollments) was 12. 15 was a soft break-even that got you some cred to get resources. Class sizes of 20 or more guaranteed it would run next year. Two or more classes of 20 means they would look at a mid-year intake as well. I was never able to get those numbers so the course couldn't fly (and that was with 3 languages - CF, PHP and ASP.NET/C# - on two platforms - Linux and Win - with a decent section on Flash/Flex apps and a bit on video streaming). Half a dozen people sitting in a 3 day short-course delivered by a private training provider is as much as you can expect, methinks. You certainly couldn't do that every week for the instructor to pay their mortgage... my opinion only. No cents offered here. I've none left. barry.b -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
Interestingly enough we had the man himself that made this decision at the Melbourne ColdFusion User Group tonight. And he has valid reasons for moving on, the main one being that they already have a lot of .NET developers and have had trouble recruiting CF developers so made the decision to just have a single technology. I think this isn't such a bad decision, in that business. Regards Dale Fraser http://dale.fraser.id.au http://cfmldocs.com http://learncf.com http://flexcf.com -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Barry Beattie Sent: Thursday, 27 May 2010 9:52 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet > TAFEs have a different problem. Teaching specific technologies is part of their brief. There is some limited curriculum material available (based on the commercial courses) for vocational colleges to teach using the Adobe products, but what TAFEs need are teachers with the skills to teach these languages. me me me. That's how I was brought, kicking and screaming, to CF - I had to teach it. I've been looking, Robin, but no TAFE's are looking for experienced and qualified CF teachers in my city. You hear of one? let me know, OK? > Adobe can't magic these people into being - they have to come from the community. If you're a contractor or a full timer looking to moonlight as an evening instructor, have you considered approaching your local TAFE or community college and offering to run a web development course? Emma Jones (nee Steer, some of you may remember her as the Canberra Macromedia UG manager for several years) has been having some success with Flash and the local TAFEs around Wangaratta. Maybe someone with some pedagogical bent could start a wiki for lesson plans and extra course material and ideas for people who wanted to get into this. I would have thought that a barometer to do that would be the strength of short courses delivering this. Brisbane North TAFE (my employer until earlier this year) has sewn up the TAFE short course scene with their Adult Community Education courses (over a weekend or so). But to be honest, they get more go from lead-lighting and wine appreciation than computer languages. It's a Micky-Mouse operation and practically anyone can offer something to them. If they reckon their cut is worthwhile, they might listen. The only other way courses could be delivered out of the TAFE system is either accredited (you get a qualification - CertIII,Cert IV, Dip) and CF would be one platform to learn on or non-accredited specialist short courses. Both delivered out of faculty, not third-party (you have teachers with tenure to consider here). FYI Brisbane Nth (Ithaca campus) has IMHO the best reputation for IT for all the Brisbane TAFE's. I've designed courses while at QANTM up to Diploma level (it's not hard if you know what you're doing) that incorporated CF. There is a real need to do pre-testing before admittance - an aptitude test. At QANTM any Diploma course, the hard break-even (class size/enrollments) was 12. 15 was a soft break-even that got you some cred to get resources. Class sizes of 20 or more guaranteed it would run next year. Two or more classes of 20 means they would look at a mid-year intake as well. I was never able to get those numbers so the course couldn't fly (and that was with 3 languages - CF, PHP and ASP.NET/C# - on two platforms - Linux and Win - with a decent section on Flash/Flex apps and a bit on video streaming). Half a dozen people sitting in a 3 day short-course delivered by a private training provider is as much as you can expect, methinks. You certainly couldn't do that every week for the instructor to pay their mortgage... my opinion only. No cents offered here. I've none left. barry.b -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
Would have been a lively meeting i'm sure :) Not saying it applies in this case, I think there is a belief that if developers for a particular technology are scarce they cost more, if they're plentiful they cost less (in theory). .NET has appealed to some I've worked for because they can always tells us they are one day going to send all our work offshore. I don't necessarily subscribe to this point of view myself but I think it's how On 27/05/2010, at 10:38 PM, "Dale Fraser" wrote: Interestingly enough we had the man himself that made this decision at the Melbourne ColdFusion User Group tonight. And he has valid reasons for moving on, the main one being that they already have a lot of .NET developers and have had trouble recruiting CF developers so made the decision to just have a single technology. I think this isn't such a bad decision, in that business. Regards Dale Fraser http://dale.fraser.id.au http://cfmldocs.com http://learncf.com http://flexcf.com -Original Message- From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Barry Beattie Sent: Thursday, 27 May 2010 9:52 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet TAFEs have a different problem. Teaching specific technologies is part of their brief. There is some limited curriculum material available (based on the commercial courses) for vocational colleges to teach using the Adobe products, but what TAFEs need are teachers with the skills to teach these languages. me me me. That's how I was brought, kicking and screaming, to CF - I had to teach it. I've been looking, Robin, but no TAFE's are looking for experienced and qualified CF teachers in my city. You hear of one? let me know, OK? Adobe can't magic these people into being - they have to come from the community. If you're a contractor or a full timer looking to moonlight as an evening instructor, have you considered approaching your local TAFE or community college and offering to run a web development course? Emma Jones (nee Steer, some of you may remember her as the Canberra Macromedia UG manager for several years) has been having some success with Flash and the local TAFEs around Wangaratta. Maybe someone with some pedagogical bent could start a wiki for lesson plans and extra course material and ideas for people who wanted to get into this. I would have thought that a barometer to do that would be the strength of short courses delivering this. Brisbane North TAFE (my employer until earlier this year) has sewn up the TAFE short course scene with their Adult Community Education courses (over a weekend or so). But to be honest, they get more go from lead-lighting and wine appreciation than computer languages. It's a Micky-Mouse operation and practically anyone can offer something to them. If they reckon their cut is worthwhile, they might listen. The only other way courses could be delivered out of the TAFE system is either accredited (you get a qualification - CertIII,Cert IV, Dip) and CF would be one platform to learn on or non-accredited specialist short courses. Both delivered out of faculty, not third-party (you have teachers with tenure to consider here). FYI Brisbane Nth (Ithaca campus) has IMHO the best reputation for IT for all the Brisbane TAFE's. I've designed courses while at QANTM up to Diploma level (it's not hard if you know what you're doing) that incorporated CF. There is a real need to do pre-testing before admittance - an aptitude test. At QANTM any Diploma course, the hard break-even (class size/enrollments) was 12. 15 was a soft break-even that got you some cred to get resources. Class sizes of 20 or more guaranteed it would run next year. Two or more classes of 20 means they would look at a mid-year intake as well. I was never able to get those numbers so the course couldn't fly (and that was with 3 languages - CF, PHP and ASP.NET/C# - on two platforms - Linux and Win - with a decent section on Flash/Flex apps and a bit on video streaming). Half a dozen people sitting in a 3 day short-course delivered by a private training provider is as much as you can expect, methinks. You certainly couldn't do that every week for the instructor to pay their mortgage... my opinion only. No cents offered here. I've none left. barry.b -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
don't forget that Microsoft actively woo University tutors, young instructors and students with various programs. The relationship between the teaching staff at Q.U.T and Microsoft is a bit too close for my liking as far as probity, but I've lost my links to demonstrate this, and it might be old outdated news. It's been a few years since I worked there. but I mean, how can Adobe do anything with the likes of this? Especially since it's a good relationship/deal for students. http://www.mquter.qut.edu.au/ http://www.itnews.com.au/News/103828,microsoft-giving-away-dev-tools-to-uni-students-for-free.aspx https://student-partners.com/default.aspx barry.b On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 11:08 PM, Andrew Myers wrote: > Would have been a lively meeting i'm sure :) > > Not saying it applies in this case, I think there is a belief that if > developers for a particular technology are scarce they cost more, if they're > plentiful they cost less (in theory). .NET has appealed to some I've worked > for because they can always tells us they are one day going to send all our > work offshore. > > I don't necessarily subscribe to this point of view myself but I think it's > how > > On 27/05/2010, at 10:38 PM, "Dale Fraser" wrote: > >> Interestingly enough we had the man himself that made this decision at the >> Melbourne ColdFusion User Group tonight. >> >> And he has valid reasons for moving on, the main one being that they >> already >> have a lot of .NET developers and have had trouble recruiting CF >> developers >> so made the decision to just have a single technology. >> >> I think this isn't such a bad decision, in that business. >> >> Regards >> Dale Fraser >> >> http://dale.fraser.id.au >> http://cfmldocs.com >> http://learncf.com >> http://flexcf.com >> >> -Original Message- >> From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] On >> Behalf >> Of Barry Beattie >> Sent: Thursday, 27 May 2010 9:52 PM >> To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com >> Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet >> >>> TAFEs have a different problem. Teaching specific technologies is part of >> >> their brief. There is some limited curriculum material available (based on >> the commercial courses) for vocational colleges to teach using the Adobe >> products, but what TAFEs need are teachers with the skills to teach these >> languages. >> >> me me me. That's how I was brought, kicking and screaming, to CF - I >> had to teach it. I've been looking, Robin, but no TAFE's are looking >> for experienced and qualified CF teachers in my city. You hear of one? >> let me know, OK? >> >> >>> Adobe can't magic these people into being - they have to come from the >> >> community. If you're a contractor or a full timer looking to moonlight as >> an evening instructor, have you considered approaching your local TAFE or >> community college and offering to run a web development course? Emma >> Jones >> (nee Steer, some of you may remember her as the Canberra Macromedia UG >> manager for several years) has been having some success with Flash and the >> local TAFEs around Wangaratta. Maybe someone with some pedagogical bent >> could start a wiki for lesson plans and extra course material and ideas >> for >> people who wanted to get into this. >> >> >> I would have thought that a barometer to do that would be the strength >> of short courses delivering this. >> >> Brisbane North TAFE (my employer until earlier this year) has sewn up >> the TAFE short course scene with their Adult Community Education >> courses (over a weekend or so). But to be honest, they get more go >> from lead-lighting and wine appreciation than computer languages. It's >> a Micky-Mouse operation and practically anyone can offer something to >> them. If they reckon their cut is worthwhile, they might listen. >> >> The only other way courses could be delivered out of the TAFE system >> is either accredited (you get a qualification - CertIII,Cert IV, Dip) >> and CF would be one platform to learn on >> >> or non-accredited specialist short courses. >> >> Both delivered out of faculty, not third-party (you have teachers with >> tenure to consider here). FYI Brisbane Nth (Ithaca campus) has IMHO >> the best reputation for IT for all the Brisbane TAFE's. >> >> I've designed courses while at QANTM up to Diploma level (it's not >> hard if you know what you're doing) that incorporated CF. >> >> There is a real need to do pre-testing before admittance - an aptitude >> test. At QANTM any Diploma course, the hard break-even (class >> size/enrollments) was 12. 15 was a soft break-even that got you some >> cred to get resources. Class sizes of 20 or more guaranteed it would >> run next year. Two or more classes of 20 means they would look at a >> mid-year intake as well. I was never able to get those numbers so the >> course couldn't fly (and that was with 3 languages - CF, PHP and >> ASP.NET/C# - on two platforms - Linux and Win - with a decent section >> on Flash/Flex apps a
[cfaussie] Last nights CFUG
Thanks to everyone who turned up last night. Was great to see some new faces around the table If anyone has some interesting topics they would either like to see presented or can present themselves please let up know Steve -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
[cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
@Dale and Andrew I don't think he made the call by himself, he definitely gave the reasons why though, well only 1 really, can't find enough CF developers... @ Robin I think getting into Uni is not so much get them using as a base for teaching the programming, pascal -> C++/Java does a fantastic job already. But maybe encourage students to use it for their projects (esp final year projects). @mpicker Thanks for that nugget of info of adobe not throwing in CF into the deal, adds to the case that Adobe can do a lot more in these parts... On May 27, 11:32 pm, Barry Beattie wrote: > don't forget that Microsoft actively woo University tutors, young > instructors and students with various programs. The relationship > between the teaching staff at Q.U.T and Microsoft is a bit too close > for my liking as far as probity, but I've lost my links to demonstrate > this, and it might be old outdated news. It's been a few years since I > worked there. > > but I mean, how can Adobe do anything with the likes of this? > Especially since it's a good relationship/deal for students. > > http://www.mquter.qut.edu.au/http://www.itnews.com.au/News/103828,microsoft-giving-away-dev-tools-...https://student-partners.com/default.aspx > > barry.b > > On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 11:08 PM, Andrew Myers wrote: > > Would have been a lively meeting i'm sure :) > > > Not saying it applies in this case, I think there is a belief that if > > developers for a particular technology are scarce they cost more, if they're > > plentiful they cost less (in theory). .NET has appealed to some I've worked > > for because they can always tells us they are one day going to send all our > > work offshore. > > > I don't necessarily subscribe to this point of view myself but I think it's > > how > > > On 27/05/2010, at 10:38 PM, "Dale Fraser" wrote: > > >> Interestingly enough we had the man himself that made this decision at the > >> Melbourne ColdFusion User Group tonight. > > >> And he has valid reasons for moving on, the main one being that they > >> already > >> have a lot of .NET developers and have had trouble recruiting CF > >> developers > >> so made the decision to just have a single technology. > > >> I think this isn't such a bad decision, in that business. > > >> Regards > >> Dale Fraser > > >>http://dale.fraser.id.au > >>http://cfmldocs.com > >>http://learncf.com > >>http://flexcf.com > > >> -Original Message- > >> From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] On > >> Behalf > >> Of Barry Beattie > >> Sent: Thursday, 27 May 2010 9:52 PM > >> To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com > >> Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet > > >>> TAFEs have a different problem. Teaching specific technologies is part of > > >> their brief. There is some limited curriculum material available (based on > >> the commercial courses) for vocational colleges to teach using the Adobe > >> products, but what TAFEs need are teachers with the skills to teach these > >> languages. > > >> me me me. That's how I was brought, kicking and screaming, to CF - I > >> had to teach it. I've been looking, Robin, but no TAFE's are looking > >> for experienced and qualified CF teachers in my city. You hear of one? > >> let me know, OK? > > >>> Adobe can't magic these people into being - they have to come from the > > >> community. If you're a contractor or a full timer looking to moonlight as > >> an evening instructor, have you considered approaching your local TAFE or > >> community college and offering to run a web development course? Emma > >> Jones > >> (nee Steer, some of you may remember her as the Canberra Macromedia UG > >> manager for several years) has been having some success with Flash and the > >> local TAFEs around Wangaratta. Maybe someone with some pedagogical bent > >> could start a wiki for lesson plans and extra course material and ideas > >> for > >> people who wanted to get into this. > > >> I would have thought that a barometer to do that would be the strength > >> of short courses delivering this. > > >> Brisbane North TAFE (my employer until earlier this year) has sewn up > >> the TAFE short course scene with their Adult Community Education > >> courses (over a weekend or so). But to be honest, they get more go > >> from lead-lighting and wine appreciation than computer languages. It's > >> a Micky-Mouse operation and practically anyone can offer something to > >> them. If they reckon their cut is worthwhile, they might listen. > > >> The only other way courses could be delivered out of the TAFE system > >> is either accredited (you get a qualification - CertIII,Cert IV, Dip) > >> and CF would be one platform to learn on > > >> or non-accredited specialist short courses. > > >> Both delivered out of faculty, not third-party (you have teachers with > >> tenure to consider here). FYI Brisbane Nth (Ithaca campus) has IMHO > >> the best reputation for IT for all the Brisbane TAFE's. > > >> I've designed courses while at QAN
[cfaussie] Just spotted on Railo google groups... Amazon S3 plugin for Railo now free!
http://groups.google.com.au/group/railo/browse_thread/thread/3be511e9635d943b -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
On a job i was working last year, the person i was reporting to, i think their title was "web properties manager", was doing a TAFE course ...somewhere in melbourne, maybe south-west, not sure... an introduction to programming, because they thought (rightly) that it would be easier to communicate with people like me if they knew a few things themself. the course offered a choice of PHP and CF (and maybe one or two others). i think almost everybody chose PHP, only one or two (including my friend) chose CF. so someone is doing it, somewhere in victoria. asdff On 27/05/10 21:51, Barry Beattie wrote: >> TAFEs have a different problem. Teaching specific technologies is part of >> their brief. There is some limited curriculum material available (based on >> the commercial courses) for vocational colleges to teach using the Adobe >> products, but what TAFEs need are teachers with the skills to teach these >> languages. >> > me me me. That's how I was brought, kicking and screaming, to CF - I > had to teach it. I've been looking, Robin, but no TAFE's are looking > for experienced and qualified CF teachers in my city. You hear of one? > let me know, OK? > > > >> Adobe can't magic these people into being - they have to come from the >> community. If you're a contractor or a full timer looking to moonlight as >> an evening instructor, have you considered approaching your local TAFE or >> community college and offering to run a web development course? Emma Jones >> (nee Steer, some of you may remember her as the Canberra Macromedia UG >> manager for several years) has been having some success with Flash and the >> local TAFEs around Wangaratta. Maybe someone with some pedagogical bent >> could start a wiki for lesson plans and extra course material and ideas for >> people who wanted to get into this. >> > > I would have thought that a barometer to do that would be the strength > of short courses delivering this. > > Brisbane North TAFE (my employer until earlier this year) has sewn up > the TAFE short course scene with their Adult Community Education > courses (over a weekend or so). But to be honest, they get more go > from lead-lighting and wine appreciation than computer languages. It's > a Micky-Mouse operation and practically anyone can offer something to > them. If they reckon their cut is worthwhile, they might listen. > > The only other way courses could be delivered out of the TAFE system > is either accredited (you get a qualification - CertIII,Cert IV, Dip) > and CF would be one platform to learn on > > or non-accredited specialist short courses. > > Both delivered out of faculty, not third-party (you have teachers with > tenure to consider here). FYI Brisbane Nth (Ithaca campus) has IMHO > the best reputation for IT for all the Brisbane TAFE's. > > I've designed courses while at QANTM up to Diploma level (it's not > hard if you know what you're doing) that incorporated CF. > > There is a real need to do pre-testing before admittance - an aptitude > test. At QANTM any Diploma course, the hard break-even (class > size/enrollments) was 12. 15 was a soft break-even that got you some > cred to get resources. Class sizes of 20 or more guaranteed it would > run next year. Two or more classes of 20 means they would look at a > mid-year intake as well. I was never able to get those numbers so the > course couldn't fly (and that was with 3 languages - CF, PHP and > ASP.NET/C# - on two platforms - Linux and Win - with a decent section > on Flash/Flex apps and a bit on video streaming). > > > Half a dozen people sitting in a 3 day short-course delivered by a > private training provider is as much as you can expect, methinks. You > certainly couldn't do that every week for the instructor to pay their > mortgage... > > my opinion only. No cents offered here. I've none left. > > barry.b > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion 9 and Windows server 2008 64bit
Kym, just to be clear, Barry's observations weren't from his logs. They were from him taking stack traces, so if you don't do that, you wouldn't have seen the problem he did. Would you agree, Barry? /charlie > -Original Message- > From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf > Of > Kym Kovan > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:52 AM > To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion 9 and Windows server 2008 64bit > > On 27/05/2010 13:22, BarryC wrote: > > Hi, > > > > After some more testing, thread dumps and operating system process > > monitoring, we have found that there seems to be a performance issue > > with files when accessed via NFS. > > The slow part is when file attributes are being requested for a file > > on the NFS (this was also shown in the thread dumps with the > > getBooleanAttributes() function coming up a lot). > > We have a client with a setup of a NAS (running FreeNas which is > FreeBSD) with lots of files behind a few servers and so I took a peek > into their CF logs and can see nothing like you are talking about below. > > The files are mainly just being served up or saved by these servers so > it is not quite the same as code files. It makes me wonder if the > permissions aspect is the important one. You say NFS, do you mean that > literally, not NTFS via samba (SMB) or something? > > I might ask them if they mind us running some tests at the weekend when > its quiet for them and see what we get. > > Kym K > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Just spotted on Railo google groups... Amazon S3 plugin for Railo now free!
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 8:21 AM, KC Kuok wrote: > http://groups.google.com.au/group/railo/browse_thread/thread/3be511e9635d943b Our basic position on features is that if it's part of Adobe ColdFusion Standard edition, we won't charge for it. With the recent announcements from Adobe about adding S3 support in CF9.0.1, we decided to immediately stop charging for the S3 extension - and we'll roll it into one of the next patch releases as a core part of Railo's server so all Railo users will automatically get S3 integration for free. We also refunded a user who'd just bought the S3 extension from us. We're finalizing the grace period on that but we're happy to refund anyone who bought the extension in the last 30 days - we may go back further but that's under discussion. Information about S3 support in ACF9.0.1: http://www.coldfusionjedi.com/index.cfm/2010/5/24/Two-new-ColdFusion-901-Gems As I note in a comment there, Railo's ORM implementation already has HSQL support in so we're glad to see that being added to ACF9.0.1 as well since that provides greater compatibility across CFML engines. -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/ An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive." -- Margaret Atwood -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion 9 and Windows server 2008 64bit
Yes, that's correct Charlie. Kym, the NFS is a proper NFS. If you could run a simple test, it would be handy.All you have to do is run a loop that loops over a handful of directories and does a fileExists() on each file in there, and compare the overall time between local files and NFS files. Obviously the directory you loop over needs to be the same on the NFS as it is on the local drive. You won't see the WinNTFileSystem.getBooleanAttributes(Native Method) stuff unless you take thread dumps while the test is running, or you use a monitor tool like 'process monitor'. Here is a code example of the kind of loop I do, you could take that, bung it in a cfc file and run it (you'd need to set up the bit that calls getDirFiles() obviously. The counter and limit are just used to restrict the number of directories that get looped over. If Kai could run the same kind of test, that would also be very handy :) On May 28, 6:58 am, "charlie arehart" wrote: > Kym, just to be clear, Barry's observations weren't from his logs. They were > from him > taking stack traces, so if you don't do that, you wouldn't have seen the > problem he > did. Would you agree, Barry? > > /charlie > > > -Original Message- > > From: cfaussie@googlegroups.com [mailto:cfaus...@googlegroups.com] On > > Behalf Of > > Kym Kovan > > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 1:52 AM > > To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com > > Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion 9 and Windows server 2008 64bit > > > On 27/05/2010 13:22, BarryC wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > After some more testing, thread dumps and operating system process > > > monitoring, we have found that there seems to be a performance issue > > > with files when accessed via NFS. > > > The slow part is when file attributes are being requested for a file > > > on the NFS (this was also shown in the thread dumps with the > > > getBooleanAttributes() function coming up a lot). > > > We have a client with a setup of a NAS (running FreeNas which is > > FreeBSD) with lots of files behind a few servers and so I took a peek > > into their CF logs and can see nothing like you are talking about below. > > > The files are mainly just being served up or saved by these servers so > > it is not quite the same as code files. It makes me wonder if the > > permissions aspect is the important one. You say NFS, do you mean that > > literally, not NTFS via samba (SMB) or something? > > > I might ask them if they mind us running some tests at the weekend when > > its quiet for them and see what we get. > > > Kym K -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 6:08 AM, Andrew Myers wrote: > Not saying it applies in this case, I think there is a belief that if > developers for a particular technology are scarce they cost more, if they're > plentiful they cost less (in theory). .NET has appealed to some I've worked > for because they can always tells us they are one day going to send all our > work offshore. I can confirm that at least here in the US (certainly on the West Coast but almost certainly elsewhere too), CFers earn a lot more than PHPers. Dealing with various web agencies - and sometimes with clients directly - I've heard that over and over again. The problem is that to folks who are not well informed about PHP vs CFML, they view them both as "web scripting languages" and thus the $$ difference is significant. CFML's biggest problem is that it doesn't really sell itself - folks have to be educated as to why it's better than PHP (or ASP.NET) in terms of productivity. And, to be honest, that's something that falls squarely on the shoulders of the community - because we're the ones out in the trenches. What we need to be careful about is a closed mind - "CFML is best!" - without good arguments to back that up. As for cross-training developers, I'll definitely speak in favor of that since that's how I came to CFML, from a background of Java / C++, along with me team (back at Macromedia). Definitely easy to pick up CFML when you know other languages and these days, with the extended cfscript support, it's a relatively easy transition. FWIW, Railo sees a steady stream of new-to-CFML folks downloading the server. A good percentage come to us from jboss.org - Java developers looking for a more effective scripting language language for the JVM (and CFML definitely kicks JSP / JSF ass) - and we see quite a few .NET developers as well. We don't have more detailed info because that's based on the voluntary survey form on the download page. -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/ An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive." -- Margaret Atwood -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion 9 and Windows server 2008 64bit
On 28/05/2010 06:59, BarryC wrote: Yes, that's correct Charlie. Kym, the NFS is a proper NFS. and I've been googling and it seems in a lot of contexts NFS on 2008 is faster than most linux versions. It used to run like a dog and MS brought a new stack in 2008 that goes like a train. So NFS per se should not be an issue. If you could run a simple test, it would be handy I'll see what I can do. -- Yours, Kym Kovan mbcomms.net.au -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion 9 and Windows server 2008 64bit
Did those references you found say anything about the specific version of windows server 2008, or just in general? There is 2008 R2 for example, but we are on the standard 2008 - not sure if there would be any difference there? Barry On May 28, 1:11 pm, Kym Kovan wrote: > On 28/05/2010 06:59, BarryC wrote: > > > Yes, that's correct Charlie. > > > Kym, the NFS is a proper NFS. > > and I've been googling and it seems in a lot of contexts NFS on 2008 is > faster than most linux versions. It used to run like a dog and MS > brought a new stack in 2008 that goes like a train. So NFS per se should > not be an issue. > > > If you could run a simple test, it would be handy > > I'll see what I can do. > > -- > > Yours, > > Kym Kovan > mbcomms.net.au -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion 9 and Windows server 2008 64bit
On 28/05/2010 11:38, BarryC wrote: Did those references you found say anything about the specific version of windows server 2008, or just in general? There is 2008 R2 for example, but we are on the standard 2008 - not sure if there would be any difference there? The changes came in with straight 2008. -- Yours, Kym Kovan mbcomms.net.au -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
Hi Sean, I agree with what you say about us being the ones "in the trenches". Like I said in an earlier post, I sometimes have to try and justify even within my organisation the use of CF, and it's not always easy - I would really benefit from some kind of "support resources" to help me with this. Perhaps they are out there and I just haven't found them. A lot of the anti CF people also don't like it because it's a proprietary technology. This is where I really think things like Railo can really help the uptake of CF. Sometimes it seems to me there is the Microsoft camp and the open source camp. And CF is off to the side somewhere struggling for relevance. Sorry to be negative, but I'm having one of those days... On Fri, 28 May 2010 07:22:26 +1000, Sean Corfield wrote: On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 6:08 AM, Andrew Myers wrote: Not saying it applies in this case, I think there is a belief that if developers for a particular technology are scarce they cost more, if they're plentiful they cost less (in theory). .NET has appealed to some I've worked for because they can always tells us they are one day going to send all our work offshore. I can confirm that at least here in the US (certainly on the West Coast but almost certainly elsewhere too), CFers earn a lot more than PHPers. Dealing with various web agencies - and sometimes with clients directly - I've heard that over and over again. The problem is that to folks who are not well informed about PHP vs CFML, they view them both as "web scripting languages" and thus the $$ difference is significant. CFML's biggest problem is that it doesn't really sell itself - folks have to be educated as to why it's better than PHP (or ASP.NET) in terms of productivity. And, to be honest, that's something that falls squarely on the shoulders of the community - because we're the ones out in the trenches. What we need to be careful about is a closed mind - "CFML is best!" - without good arguments to back that up. As for cross-training developers, I'll definitely speak in favor of that since that's how I came to CFML, from a background of Java / C++, along with me team (back at Macromedia). Definitely easy to pick up CFML when you know other languages and these days, with the extended cfscript support, it's a relatively easy transition. FWIW, Railo sees a steady stream of new-to-CFML folks downloading the server. A good percentage come to us from jboss.org - Java developers looking for a more effective scripting language language for the JVM (and CFML definitely kicks JSP / JSF ass) - and we see quite a few .NET developers as well. We don't have more detailed info because that's based on the voluntary survey form on the download page. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Just spotted on Railo google groups... Amazon S3 plugin for Railo now free!
On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 06:47, Sean Corfield wrote: > As I note in a comment there, Railo's ORM implementation already has > HSQL support in so we're glad to see that being added to > ACF9.0.1 as well since that provides greater compatibility across CFML > engines. When you talk about HSQL, is in http://hsqldb.org/ or HQL as in the Hiberate Query Language? Chris -- Chris Velevitch Manager - Adobe Platform Users Group, Sydney m: 0415 469 095 www.apugs.org.au Adobe Platform Users Group, Sydney May 2010: OpenZoom and DVCSes Date: 31st May 6pm for 6:30 start Details and RSVP on http://apugs.groups.adobe.com/index.cfm?event=post.display&postid=22263 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
[cfaussie] Re: Coldfusion 9 and Windows server 2008 64bit
Hi Barry, Might be to do with Windows itself We had this problem awhile back where too many connections were running through, our network guy went on to explain how windows would just cut off connections and start up again a few seconds later in dealing when there are too many connections... we have since swapped around where the drives are and mounted from the SAN the drives to other parts of the network, haven't had that issue where the app would stall momentarily when it was under load... Though if you think about it, it is a good problem to have :) So if you problem seem remote similar might be worth while swapping around how ur drives are mapped to spread the load around abit... Just My 2 cents, Chong On May 28, 11:38 am, BarryC wrote: > Did those references you found say anything about the specific version > of windows server 2008, or just in general? > There is 2008 R2 for example, but we are on the standard 2008 - not > sure if there would be any difference there? > > Barry > > On May 28, 1:11 pm, Kym Kovan wrote: > > > On 28/05/2010 06:59, BarryC wrote: > > > > Yes, that's correct Charlie. > > > > Kym, the NFS is a proper NFS. > > > and I've been googling and it seems in a lot of contexts NFS on 2008 is > > faster than most linux versions. It used to run like a dog and MS > > brought a new stack in 2008 that goes like a train. So NFS per se should > > not be an issue. > > > > If you could run a simple test, it would be handy > > > I'll see what I can do. > > > -- > > > Yours, > > > Kym Kovan > > mbcomms.net.au -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Just spotted on Railo google groups... Amazon S3 plugin for Railo now free!
On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 9:27 PM, Chris Velevitch wrote: > When you talk about HSQL, is in http://hsqldb.org/ or HQL as in the > Hiberate Query Language? Sorry, that was a typo and I meant HQL - Hibernate Query Language - the ability to write HQL inside and get back either a record set (as with regular SQL) or an array of entities (specific to Hibernate datasources). -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN Railo Technologies, Inc. -- http://getrailo.com/ An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ "If you're not annoying somebody, you're not really alive." -- Margaret Atwood -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
[cfaussie] [ANN-SYD] Monday: Introduction to OpenZoom and An Introduction To DVCSes With Mercurial
Meet on Monday, 31st April at 6pm for 6:30 start. Introduction to the OpenZoom as3 sdk Openzoom is an open-source flash/flex sdk for displaying and interacting with zoomable images or image pyraminds. It is basically an actionscript 3 port of seadragon - the js library that got bought by Microsoft and was turned into the killer feature of silverlight. Openzoom is very still very rough, with major parts of the code missing and hardly any documentation, but it worked well enough for use on http://www.weatherchannel.com.au This talk will give a brief introduction to image pyramids and the architecture of the openzoom sdk so that you can go and use it, abuse it, then fix some bugs so I can use it some more :). Introduction to DVCSes With Mercurial Mercurial is a Distributed Version Control System (DVCS). DVCSes are starting to gain acceptance among developers from lone hackers to globally dispersed mega teams. It doesn't matter what langauge you use, you'll get a introduction to DVCSes, and specifically Mercurial, and be up an running in no time. We'll be meeting at a venue courtesy of Rocketboots. Please RVSP to help with the cartering. Food and drink provided, courtesy of Adobe. Note: In order to be eligible for the major software prize, valued at $US2100, drawn at the June meeting you must have attended at least 3 meeting since the November major software prize draw. Previous major software winners within the last 2 years are ineligible. Chris -- Chris Velevitch Manager - Adobe Platform Users Group, Sydney m: 0415 469 095 www.apugs.org.au Adobe Platform Users Group, Sydney May 2010: OpenZoom and DVCSes Date: 31st May 6pm for 6:30 start Details and RSVP on http://apugs.groups.adobe.com/index.cfm?event=post.display&postid=22263 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
[cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
Just dropping a line to say I read this thread in it's entirety and I sympathize. I wish I could offer a silver-bullet solution, but one does not exist. It's also unfortunate, but these problems are not unique to ANZ. I'll be sharing these sentiments with Alison (Marketing Manager) and point her to this thread, but alas, it's things we were already aware of. It's still early, but we are really hoping our new resellers/partners in ANZ step up and promote ColdFusion in the manner Firmware was. It's hard to put into perspective, but Adobe has well over 125+ products. The Adobe AU office is small and only focuses on the big ticket items (LiveCycle, Connect, CS, etc.). This is really conundrum. If we want Adobe AU (or just Adobe in general) to be more involved w/ CF, then we would have to dramatically raise the price. Of course, other the other hand a significant portion of the market thinks ColdFusion is too expensive as it is and screamed bloody murder when we released CB. This is all underlined by a failing world economy and we can't ignore it's effect on the ColdFusion community. For every customer who doesn't upgrade or migrates to another technology like PHP, .NET or Railo, it's money that leave our ecosystem. Which means less money for marketing, conferences, user groups, documentation... this is what hurts the most about a company like JB-HI leaving CF. It's a vicious circle for sure, but I do believe we can turn it around... I'm planning on coming to Melbourne for cf.obj(ANZ). By then, I should be allowed to share some details on our strategy for ColdFusion X (albeit under NDA). To share a comment Shantanu Narayen made about CF X, "Go big, or go home". We certainly don't intend to go home. :-) -Adam ColdFusion Product Manager Long-time fan of ColdFusion in ANZ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
I guess the question I would ask then is what is Adobe doing to try and retain these customers? And not only retain them but get new customers? -Original Message- From: Adrock [mailto:adrocknapho...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, 28 May 2010 10:36 AM To: cfaussie Subject: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet Just dropping a line to say I read this thread in it's entirety and I sympathize. I wish I could offer a silver-bullet solution, but one does not exist. It's also unfortunate, but these problems are not unique to ANZ. I'll be sharing these sentiments with Alison (Marketing Manager) and point her to this thread, but alas, it's things we were already aware of. It's still early, but we are really hoping our new resellers/partners in ANZ step up and promote ColdFusion in the manner Firmware was. It's hard to put into perspective, but Adobe has well over 125+ products. The Adobe AU office is small and only focuses on the big ticket items (LiveCycle, Connect, CS, etc.). This is really conundrum. If we want Adobe AU (or just Adobe in general) to be more involved w/ CF, then we would have to dramatically raise the price. Of course, other the other hand a significant portion of the market thinks ColdFusion is too expensive as it is and screamed bloody murder when we released CB. This is all underlined by a failing world economy and we can't ignore it's effect on the ColdFusion community. For every customer who doesn't upgrade or migrates to another technology like PHP, .NET or Railo, it's money that leave our ecosystem. Which means less money for marketing, conferences, user groups, documentation... this is what hurts the most about a company like JB-HI leaving CF. It's a vicious circle for sure, but I do believe we can turn it around... I'm planning on coming to Melbourne for cf.obj(ANZ). By then, I should be allowed to share some details on our strategy for ColdFusion X (albeit under NDA). To share a comment Shantanu Narayen made about CF X, "Go big, or go home". We certainly don't intend to go home. :-) -Adam ColdFusion Product Manager Long-time fan of ColdFusion in ANZ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
Hi Adam, thanks for weighing in on this. You know I love you, but... :) We have to pay to be partners, as well as meet certain criteria. We don't then actually get anything from adobe, except some base level downloads of software - but the expectation we're getting is to spend our own money doing the marketing. As a partner I got no contact from anyone unless I initiated it, and that didn't lead to anything either. I believe the intent is there, but frankly the partner program isn't doing much for a lot of people... Toby On 28/05/2010, at 10:36 AM, Adrock wrote: Just dropping a line to say I read this thread in it's entirety and I sympathize. I wish I could offer a silver-bullet solution, but one does not exist. It's also unfortunate, but these problems are not unique to ANZ. I'll be sharing these sentiments with Alison (Marketing Manager) and point her to this thread, but alas, it's things we were already aware of. It's still early, but we are really hoping our new resellers/partners in ANZ step up and promote ColdFusion in the manner Firmware was. It's hard to put into perspective, but Adobe has well over 125+ products. The Adobe AU office is small and only focuses on the big ticket items (LiveCycle, Connect, CS, etc.). This is really conundrum. If we want Adobe AU (or just Adobe in general) to be more involved w/ CF, then we would have to dramatically raise the price. Of course, other the other hand a significant portion of the market thinks ColdFusion is too expensive as it is and screamed bloody murder when we released CB. This is all underlined by a failing world economy and we can't ignore it's effect on the ColdFusion community. For every customer who doesn't upgrade or migrates to another technology like PHP, .NET or Railo, it's money that leave our ecosystem. Which means less money for marketing, conferences, user groups, documentation... this is what hurts the most about a company like JB-HI leaving CF. It's a vicious circle for sure, but I do believe we can turn it around... I'm planning on coming to Melbourne for cf.obj(ANZ). By then, I should be allowed to share some details on our strategy for ColdFusion X (albeit under NDA). To share a comment Shantanu Narayen made about CF X, "Go big, or go home". We certainly don't intend to go home. :-) -Adam ColdFusion Product Manager Long-time fan of ColdFusion in ANZ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com . For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en . -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
On 28/05/2010 15:29, Toby Tremayne wrote: We have to pay to be partners, as well as meet certain criteria. We don't then actually get anything from adobe, except some base level downloads of software - but the expectation we're getting is to spend our own money doing the marketing. As a partner I got no contact from anyone unless I initiated it, and that didn't lead to anything either. I believe the intent is there, but frankly the partner program isn't doing much for a lot of people... Which is why we, and other older partners from Macromedia or earlier days, are no longer partners, absolutely no value in it. -- Yours, Kym Kovan mbcomms.net.au -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
RE: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
Totally agree with you Toby. In my opinion it should be Adobe doing the leg work to maintain these clients and then work with local partners to assist in supporting these customers, giving them direct access to the partners for software updates and providing support for them, otherwise what is the point of being classed as a partner -Original Message- From: Toby Tremayne [mailto:t...@lyricist.com.au] Sent: Friday, 28 May 2010 3:30 PM To: cfaussie@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet Hi Adam, thanks for weighing in on this. You know I love you, but... :) We have to pay to be partners, as well as meet certain criteria. We don't then actually get anything from adobe, except some base level downloads of software - but the expectation we're getting is to spend our own money doing the marketing. As a partner I got no contact from anyone unless I initiated it, and that didn't lead to anything either. I believe the intent is there, but frankly the partner program isn't doing much for a lot of people... Toby On 28/05/2010, at 10:36 AM, Adrock wrote: > Just dropping a line to say I read this thread in it's entirety and I > sympathize. I wish I could offer a silver-bullet solution, but one > does not exist. It's also unfortunate, but these problems are not > unique to ANZ. I'll be sharing these sentiments with Alison (Marketing > Manager) and point her to this thread, but alas, it's things we were > already aware of. > > It's still early, but we are really hoping our new resellers/partners > in ANZ step up and promote ColdFusion in the manner Firmware was. It's > hard to put into perspective, but Adobe has well over 125+ products. > The Adobe AU office is small and only focuses on the big ticket items > (LiveCycle, Connect, CS, etc.). This is really conundrum. If we want > Adobe AU (or just Adobe in general) to be more involved w/ CF, then we > would have to dramatically raise the price. Of course, other the other > hand a significant portion of the market thinks ColdFusion is too > expensive as it is and screamed bloody murder when we released CB. > > This is all underlined by a failing world economy and we can't ignore > it's effect on the ColdFusion community. For every customer who > doesn't upgrade or migrates to another technology like PHP, .NET or > Railo, it's money that leave our ecosystem. Which means less money for > marketing, conferences, user groups, documentation... this is what > hurts the most about a company like JB-HI leaving CF. It's a vicious > circle for sure, but I do believe we can turn it around... > > I'm planning on coming to Melbourne for cf.obj(ANZ). By then, I should > be allowed to share some details on our strategy for ColdFusion X > (albeit under NDA). To share a comment Shantanu Narayen made about CF > X, "Go big, or go home". We certainly don't intend to go home. :-) > > -Adam > ColdFusion Product Manager > Long-time fan of ColdFusion in ANZ > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "cfaussie" group. > To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en > . > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
[cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
Also just another thing to note, where adobe does not officially run any form of MAX like MS does... I will probably be at ReMix next week, the ticket costs me only 195(early bird get 100 off) and there are numerous competition. ReMix is relatively cheap, gives you a chance to update on the new things that MS is bring out this year, and a place where the local evangelists try to spread the word and convert the masses over. Adobe doesn't even have any australian run events which they run themselves, I think Adobe AU or even ANZ will benefit from a compact conference where they can have a show and tell what has just recently come out and what is going to come out...To put it bluntly marketing wise in Adobe Regards, Chong On May 28, 12:56 pm, "Andrew Myers" wrote: > Hi Sean, > > I agree with what you say about us being the ones "in the trenches". Like > I said in an earlier post, I sometimes have to try and justify even within > my organisation the use of CF, and it's not always easy - I would really > benefit from some kind of "support resources" to help me with this. > Perhaps they are out there and I just haven't found them. > > A lot of the anti CF people also don't like it because it's a proprietary > technology. This is where I really think things like Railo can really > help the uptake of CF. > > Sometimes it seems to me there is the Microsoft camp and the open source > camp. And CF is off to the side somewhere struggling for relevance. > Sorry to be negative, but I'm having one of those days... > > On Fri, 28 May 2010 07:22:26 +1000, Sean Corfield > wrote: > > > On Thu, May 27, 2010 at 6:08 AM, Andrew Myers wrote: > >> Not saying it applies in this case, I think there is a belief that if > >> developers for a particular technology are scarce they cost more, if > >> they're > >> plentiful they cost less (in theory). .NET has appealed to some I've > >> worked > >> for because they can always tells us they are one day going to send all > >> our > >> work offshore. > > > I can confirm that at least here in the US (certainly on the West > > Coast but almost certainly elsewhere too), CFers earn a lot more than > > PHPers. Dealing with various web agencies - and sometimes with clients > > directly - I've heard that over and over again. The problem is that to > > folks who are not well informed about PHP vs CFML, they view them both > > as "web scripting languages" and thus the $$ difference is > > significant. > > > CFML's biggest problem is that it doesn't really sell itself - folks > > have to be educated as to why it's better than PHP (or ASP.NET) in > > terms of productivity. And, to be honest, that's something that falls > > squarely on the shoulders of the community - because we're the ones > > out in the trenches. What we need to be careful about is a closed mind > > - "CFML is best!" - without good arguments to back that up. > > > As for cross-training developers, I'll definitely speak in favor of > > that since that's how I came to CFML, from a background of Java / C++, > > along with me team (back at Macromedia). Definitely easy to pick up > > CFML when you know other languages and these days, with the extended > > cfscript support, it's a relatively easy transition. > > > FWIW, Railo sees a steady stream of new-to-CFML folks downloading the > > server. A good percentage come to us from jboss.org - Java developers > > looking for a more effective scripting language language for the JVM > > (and CFML definitely kicks JSP / JSF ass) - and we see quite a few > > .NET developers as well. We don't have more detailed info because > > that's based on the voluntary survey form on the download page. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 16:27, KC Kuok wrote: > ... Adobe > doesn't even have any australian run events which they run themselves, > I think Adobe AU or even ANZ will benefit from a compact conference > where they can have a show and tell what has just recently come out > and what is going to come out...To put it bluntly marketing wise in > Adobe That's not true. Adobe just finished running an event in Perth. They've been to all the major cities in Australian and New Zealand. Sure it for CS5, but you can't say they're not doing anything here. Plus they did sponsor WebDu and Cf Object (ANZ). Chris -- Chris Velevitch Manager - Adobe Platform Users Group, Sydney m: 0415 469 095 www.apugs.org.au Adobe Platform Users Group, Sydney May 2010: OpenZoom and DVCSes Date: 31st May 6pm for 6:30 start Details and RSVP on http://apugs.groups.adobe.com/index.cfm?event=post.display&postid=22263 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
And the local REFRESH events are held all over Australia, and I don't think I haven't been to one in which CF wasn't mentioned. So actually - that is something that they do do to push CF to non-CF'ers in ANZ. Mark On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 4:32 PM, Chris Velevitch wrote: > On Fri, May 28, 2010 at 16:27, KC Kuok wrote: > > ... Adobe > > doesn't even have any australian run events which they run themselves, > > I think Adobe AU or even ANZ will benefit from a compact conference > > where they can have a show and tell what has just recently come out > > and what is going to come out...To put it bluntly marketing wise in > > Adobe > > That's not true. Adobe just finished running an event in Perth. > They've been to all the major cities in Australian and New Zealand. > Sure it for CS5, but you can't say they're not doing anything here. > Plus they did sponsor WebDu and Cf Object (ANZ). > > > > Chris > -- > Chris Velevitch > Manager - Adobe Platform Users Group, Sydney > m: 0415 469 095 > www.apugs.org.au > > Adobe Platform Users Group, Sydney > May 2010: OpenZoom and DVCSes > Date: 31st May 6pm for 6:30 start > Details and RSVP on > http://apugs.groups.adobe.com/index.cfm?event=post.display&postid=22263 > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "cfaussie" group. > To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > . > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en. > > -- E: mark.man...@gmail.com T: http://www.twitter.com/neurotic W: www.compoundtheory.com cf.Objective(ANZ) - Nov 18, 19 - Melbourne Australia http://www.cfobjective.com.au Hands-on ColdFusion ORM Training www.ColdFusionOrmTraining.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
Re: [cfaussie] Re: JB-HI Moving to dotnet
On 27/05/2010, at 9:51 PM, Barry Beattie wrote: > Half a dozen people sitting in a 3 day short-course delivered by a > private training provider is as much as you can expect, methinks. You > certainly couldn't do that every week for the instructor to pay their > mortgage... And I'm reasonably familiar with how well that works as a business ;-). Robin -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "cfaussie" group. To post to this group, send email to cfaus...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to cfaussie+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/cfaussie?hl=en.
