RE: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725]
YES it is worth it when you complete your goal. If you goal is not CCIE then don't spend the money. -Original Message- From: Michael L. Williams [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, May 31, 2001 6:32 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725] Reply is inline. "Robert Padjen" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > My $.02. > > I have always been disenchanted with the > certifications offered and I would like to believe > that some others in the industry feel the same. This > may be the case here. IMHO, most of the people I know personally that are disenhanted with certifications are that way because they didn't like the idea that someone could, in a year or two of hard studying, learn as much about networking as it took them 10 years to learn. I'm not knocking good old experience, and I'm in the process of getting more and more experience everyday to truly fill out my skillset with the knowledge of problems and issues that you don't read about in textbooks. I realize the value of experience versus book knowledge. > Basically, look at the certification tests. Many are > old, poorly written, irrelevant to production > environments, simple (low percentage of redundancy or > complex scenario questions) and an overall difficulty > not related to technological issues but grammar, > construct and marketing. As such, passing proves that > you can do one thing - pass the test. It doesn't mean > that you can troubleshoot, design, deploy or manage > anything. Is Erlang-B important in routing and > switching? Is knowing the port density on the Z series > router valuable when the product was replaced two > years ago? I have to disagree to some of your points here. Some of the exams, have dated information, but Cisco makes an effort to make sure the exams are updated so that you're not dealing with totally antiquated technologies. For instance, a friend who completed CCNP a year before I started the CCNP 2.0, said that his switching exam didn't cover any multicast or multilayer switching. While going through the CCNP 2.0, my switching exam was filled with multilayer switching and multicast/multicasting routing protocols, which is STILL not being utilized in many environments because "it's too new". I will admit that many of the scenarios proposed in the exams are by no means complex compared to real life situations. However, what you're failing to recognize (or admit) is that passing the exam proves more than you can pass an exam. If what you're saying were true, no college degree would considered valid because college as a whole is just a bunch of exams to pass. This logic escapes me. One thing that passing exams gives you that even years of real world experience cannot is the details and background to understand why things are the way they are. Sure theory isn't always = real world, but it never is. I work with a network engineer who has been such for FIVE YEARS. He was looking in a router the other day and noticed some multicast traffic and said "We don't run any multicast on our network" and me, the "book learned green horn", simply said "We're running EIGRP on our network, aren't we?" (which we are). He didn't have a clue what I was implying. So I just left "the engineer" to figure it out. The company I am with is a very large, multinational, Cisco-only company with (literally) teams of (probably over 100) engineers that all have great experience, and hardly any of them is certified. I don't have any disrespect for them because of that. However, when someone with ZERO real-world experience, like me, can walk in on a 6-month contract armed with no more than a sharp mind and a CCNA (1/2 of the CCNP finished =), make many suggestions and modifications to their network that have had global impact and improved performance or solved long-time problems, and have gained the respect of every engineer that works there, that proves to me and should prove to everyone that attaining these certifications is much more than proving you can pass exams. My father-in-law once told me that "Sometimes 10 years experience isn't always 10 years experience. It's the same 1 year of experience over and over". There are sooo many people that learn just what they need to get by and then "look down" at a hungry young go-getter that has certifications because they feel that the youngster "surely can't know things that I don't know", not realizing they know RIP inside and out, but are clueless about OSPF, EIGRP, BGP, etc. They understand setting up a VLAN perfectly, but have no clue how to route between them. They understand HSRP, but have no clue that the preempt de
Re: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725]
ed. Its not I'm certified > (along with X others) and I'm one of many. > > Also, I know a lot of people who will not disclose > their certs, including CCIE, unless asked. It's being > humble. For me, being "green" in the field, I need my certs at the TOP of my resume. But it gets attention and brings in job offers I wouldn't get otherwise. Someday my experience will say enough, and that point I will either downplay or not mention the certs. But not now. > I don't think that anyone is incapable of passing the > X test/exam. Its a matter of time, money, pain and > desire. A lot of great people in this industry are > great because they are good - not because a test told > the world that they were. To to reiterate, I have plenty of respect for people in the field with years of experience that have (or had) the desire to truly understand networking on it's finest levels. I do not reserve such respect for those only with certs. Matter of fact, I've ran into plenty of people with the certs that seemed to have learned nothing. That's the way it is > --- Donald B Johnson jr > wrote: > > I don't agree, people who write technically, their > > reputation is centered > > around how accurate their writing is, and where > > mistakes are made how > > quickly they fix those errors. I don't see where > > failing a test, would > > invalidate anyone's writing or lessen their > > reputation. The quoted > > explanation may be true I am not disputing that, it > > probably is a factor, I > > just think it is unfounded. > > > > > > - Original Message - > > From: "Kevin Schwantz" > > To: > > Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 8:07 AM > > Subject: Re: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725] > > > > > > > Did you know that many of the top Cisco engineers > > are not CCIE qualified? > > I > > > have always wondered why people like Sam Halabi > > and the likes do not get > > > certified.A Cisco employee told me that these > > people have everything to > > lose > > > and nothing to gain if they take the CCIE exam. If > > they refrain from > > taking > > > the tests, their reputation stays intact. If they > > take the test and fail, > > > people will start to question their credibility. > > > > > > Kevin > > > > > > ""Morabito Joe"" wrote in message > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > I want to ask a question to those already CCIEs. > > Is it really worth it? > > > > Don't get me wrong, I love the work and the > > learning. I actually plan > > to > > > > take the lab by july of next year, but how has > > your life changed since > > > > obtaining your ccie? Was it what you expected? > > Better or worse? > > > > > > > > Please share your life experience after reaching > > the big goal. > > Personally > > > I > > > > can't wait to achieve CCIE status. > > > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > > > Joe Morabito > > > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > > > > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations > > to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > > > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > = > Robert Padjen > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices > http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=6690&t=5725 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725]
As a consultant, you'd better believe it's important, and becoming moreso all the time. Here's an example. A couple of weeks ago, a buddy of mine (who is a CCIE) and I were at our office. Our sales guy got a call about a problem at a bank, and he called me into the office so I could get some information about the problem. Token Ring environment, with some DLSW. After I'd gotten as much as I could over the phone, they asked how quickly I could be at the site. We told them about a half hour... They asked specifically for a CCIE. My buddy got the call. Fortunately, I went along too, as I wasn't doing anything important at the time. It's good thing I did too, because in a previous life, I had a ton of Token Ring experience, and my co-worker had virtually none. As it turned out, I was the one that did most of the talking while on site, and I was the one that gave them the troubleshooting strategy that ended up getting the problem identified, and ultimately solved. Did they ask which of us had more experience? (I have 8+ years of Cisco, my friend has about 4.) No, they didn't ask that. Did they ask which of us had experience relevant to their specific environment? (I have a great deal of Token Ring, and alot of production DLSW; my friend has virtually no Token Ring experience, and only enough DLSW to have passed the lab) No, they didn't ask that. They asked if I was a CCIE. No, I'm not yet a CCIE. My co-worker is though, and they wanted him to come solve their problem. This is the unfortunate reality of the marketplace. The certification talks, and the experience is being overlooked. I only decided to get my CCIE about a year ago, because I saw this kind of thing starting to happen more frequently. Because of the waiting list for the lab, I haven't yet had a chance to take it. Had I begun a year earlier, I'd probably have had a chance to take it 2 or 3 times by now. I don't view the CCIE as some sort of life changing event in my life... I'm getting it out of self-defense. If I am being compared to another candidate, I want to be certain that the number of years, and the diversity of my experience, are factored into the comparison. Right now, if the other candidate is a CCIE, I can't be sure that my resume will even be read. My pursuit of the CCIE is motivated by the need to be taken seriously. When the number of CCIEs was very low, this wasn't much of a problem. Now that it's become a little more common, I find that I'm losing my competitive edge "on paper," and that's going to change. Alan - Original Message ----- From: "Duncan Stuart" To: Sent: Monday, May 28, 2001 11:05 AM Subject: RE: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725] [snip] > I believe in the contracting market it is important to combine > the experience with recognized certification. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=6120&t=5725 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725]
Question, Is it the experts that kill networks in real life? (probably) When does it become worth it?... How about the period (today) where companies are paying vast amounts of money for CCIE's to be part of their network team. That's when it becomes worth it. If you are good enough then prove it, 2 days out of your life to do a lab test is not a long time. I spent a little more than 7 years of my life at university doing a PHD in Physics but was unable to get a job so went into IT (was all that education worth it), some might argue that it was. Certifications will always exist and if it sells then you got to have one. I believe in the contracting market it is important to combine the experience with recognised certification. >= Original Message From "Robert Padjen" = >Chuck - > >I always enjoy the positions you present. You are >correct, although I am concerned with the posture that >a CCIE is an expert-regardless of the title on the >certification. My issue is that an expert would know >better than to create a small network with OSPF, RIP, >BGP, EIGRP and IGRP, while then killing themselves to >fix it. In the same vain, a test, and success on that >test, would at best show mastery of the materials on >that test. The hard and soft skills needed to be an >expert in this field are well beyond any certification >exam. > >For example, I work as an expert witness in legal >matters. I carry the title 'expert' as I am >knowledgeable, certified, published and practiced in >the area of expertise. Even with all this, I need to >learn and integrate legal concepts and technical ones >in order to do the job well. > >My perception of the CCIE (and other certs) is that >many networkers feel that its a one-time deal. I got a >840/1000 - I'm hot *$&@. ;) This is the construct >that bothers me the most. In the absence of a better >alternative it's what we have, but it still concerns >me and I think as an industry we can do better. > > >--- Chuck Larrieu wrote: >> As someone who has devoted a bit of time and more >> than a couple of dollars >> pursuing certification, and as someone who has >> failed one lab attempt, and >> as someone who collects good advice from CCIE's and >> others, I can no longer >> resist opening my big mouth on this. >> >> The CCIE Lab exam is a test. Nothing more. Nothing >> less. It has nothing to >> do with good practice. It has nothing to do with >> real world. >> >> Consider: Cisco wants you to be able to redistribute >> between any two >> protocols. How do you test this, given the >> constraints of the lab? >> >> Cisco wants you to understand routing protocol >> behaviour. How do you test >> that? Do bizarre redistribution requirements and >> constraints provide just >> such a means? >> >> Cisco wants you to understand the implications of >> NMBA on Cisco routers. How >> do you test that? >> >> Cisco wants you to understand how OSPF works? How do >> you test that, >> particularly in conjunction with NMBA? >> >> Cisco wants you to understand how routing works. How >> do you test a >> candidate's real understanding if you can fake your >> way through by using >> static routes? >> >> Cisco wants you to understand a number of >> alternative solutions to a number >> of problems. So they create scenarios which require >> a number of > >__ >Do You Yahoo!? >Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices >http://auctions.yahoo.com/ >FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html >Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- The Totalise Email system, probably the most flexible email system in the world. To register for an account goto http://www.totalise.net Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=6116&t=5725 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725]
Chuck - I always enjoy the positions you present. You are correct, although I am concerned with the posture that a CCIE is an expert-regardless of the title on the certification. My issue is that an expert would know better than to create a small network with OSPF, RIP, BGP, EIGRP and IGRP, while then killing themselves to fix it. In the same vain, a test, and success on that test, would at best show mastery of the materials on that test. The hard and soft skills needed to be an expert in this field are well beyond any certification exam. For example, I work as an expert witness in legal matters. I carry the title 'expert' as I am knowledgeable, certified, published and practiced in the area of expertise. Even with all this, I need to learn and integrate legal concepts and technical ones in order to do the job well. My perception of the CCIE (and other certs) is that many networkers feel that its a one-time deal. I got a 840/1000 - I'm hot *$&@. ;) This is the construct that bothers me the most. In the absence of a better alternative it's what we have, but it still concerns me and I think as an industry we can do better. --- Chuck Larrieu wrote: > As someone who has devoted a bit of time and more > than a couple of dollars > pursuing certification, and as someone who has > failed one lab attempt, and > as someone who collects good advice from CCIE's and > others, I can no longer > resist opening my big mouth on this. > > The CCIE Lab exam is a test. Nothing more. Nothing > less. It has nothing to > do with good practice. It has nothing to do with > real world. > > Consider: Cisco wants you to be able to redistribute > between any two > protocols. How do you test this, given the > constraints of the lab? > > Cisco wants you to understand routing protocol > behaviour. How do you test > that? Do bizarre redistribution requirements and > constraints provide just > such a means? > > Cisco wants you to understand the implications of > NMBA on Cisco routers. How > do you test that? > > Cisco wants you to understand how OSPF works? How do > you test that, > particularly in conjunction with NMBA? > > Cisco wants you to understand how routing works. How > do you test a > candidate's real understanding if you can fake your > way through by using > static routes? > > Cisco wants you to understand a number of > alternative solutions to a number > of problems. So they create scenarios which require > a number of __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=5968&t=5725 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725]
As someone who has devoted a bit of time and more than a couple of dollars pursuing certification, and as someone who has failed one lab attempt, and as someone who collects good advice from CCIE's and others, I can no longer resist opening my big mouth on this. The CCIE Lab exam is a test. Nothing more. Nothing less. It has nothing to do with good practice. It has nothing to do with real world. Consider: Cisco wants you to be able to redistribute between any two protocols. How do you test this, given the constraints of the lab? Cisco wants you to understand routing protocol behaviour. How do you test that? Do bizarre redistribution requirements and constraints provide just such a means? Cisco wants you to understand the implications of NMBA on Cisco routers. How do you test that? Cisco wants you to understand how OSPF works? How do you test that, particularly in conjunction with NMBA? Cisco wants you to understand how routing works. How do you test a candidate's real understanding if you can fake your way through by using static routes? Cisco wants you to understand a number of alternative solutions to a number of problems. So they create scenarios which require a number of alternatives in order to complete correctly. Is this real world.? Is this good practice? Any CCNA should be able to throw together a 10 router network over frame relay, and get it to work. But who do you call when you have something out of the ordinary you want to do? Suppose you have legacy protocols you want to transition from? Suppose you are migrating from 3com to Cisco? Suppose you are buying Cisco now, but in the past you bought 3com, Lucent, and Nortel. And you don't want to spend the money to replace it all? Suppose you acquire a company that runs RIPv1, and their address space overlaps your? Who's gonna solve your problem? The CCIE is not about passing a test. It is about becoming expert in routing and networking. It is about learning how to learn. It is about understanding, researching, thinking beyond the ordinary. JMHO Chuck -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Robert Padjen Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 11:20 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725] Louie - First congratulations. I think that, from what I know of the lab, there is a greater disconnect between the items on the lab and the real-world than your posting would reflect. This is not to say that there is no coorelation - rather it is thinner than some of us would like. I'm embarrased when CCIEs can't explain how to use the ARP and CAM tables to find a top talker, or when they can't implement redundancy in OSPF areas. The ones who can typically report that the lab (and its prep) had little to do with their knowledge in these areas. No exam can be everything, and I agree completely that the CCIE is one of the better ones, but I won't hire ANYONE because of the letters after their name - CCIE included. It's impressive, but only within the context of the challenge of the exam. --- Louie Belt wrote: > I respectfully disagree with some of your > assertions. The CCIE cert does > demonstrate that you have an ability to troubleshoot > a network, it also > demonstrates your ability to build a complex network > without leaving out the > details. That's why the CCIE is different from > almost any other cert. The > lab goes past theory and forces practical > application of that theory. > Additionally, it forces you to demonstrate an > ability to handle unknown > scenarios in a timely manner and under extreme > pressure. > > As for my opinion of whether it's worth it - I must > say it absolutely is!! > > Louie Belt > CCIE #7054 > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > Kane, Christopher A. > Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 6:08 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725] > > > I agree that a Cert is not necessarily who you are. > I also agree that a Cert > doesn't mean you can troubleshoot nor does it mean > that you are capable of > designing something that is clean and easily > supportable. But, I feel the > Cert does have a value. It shows that you took the > time to learn what > someone (presumably the vendor) suggested that you > learn in order to better > understand the capabilities of their product. It > shows that you've made the > effort to learn things that you don't normally deal > with on a day-to-day > basis. If you are willing to constantly learn and > grow not only adds to your > value as an employee, but also as a person. > > Further, for those of us who did not finish school, > it hopefully keeps t
RE: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725]
I agree that no one will master Cisco by passing the lab and getting their number. People should consider the CCIE a starting point not a destination. The sheer amount of prep and practice you must do to prepare for and pass the lab gaurantees a certain level of proficiency that is not present in the written test world. Do I know it all - absolutely not. Do I know how to ask the right questions and quickly find the answers to most things I don't know - absolutely. Am I a better engineer today than the day I passed my CCIE - absolutley. Are there CCIE's who were given lab scenarios too similar to the real lab that passed them when they were not really ready - Yes a few. Do the lab scenarios reflect the real world? - NO, but it makes the real world seem simple in comparison because the real world scenarios make sense and don't ask you to not use method x in your solution. In the real world you are not going to face the possibility of 5 routing protocols on 6 routers, but being able to do so in the lab means that when I'm using OSPF as my IGP and BGP as my EGP in the real world I probably know how to do it without much wasted effort. That being said, I too would never hire anyone based soley on a cert. I would however, put the CCIE at the top of the list when interview time came around. In addition to a certain level of proficiency, a CCIE has also demonstrated the tenacity to reach difficult goals and accept challenges. Now if they would only include a "people skills" section in the lab . Louie -Original Message- From: Robert Padjen To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 5/25/01 1:19 AM Subject: RE: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725] Louie - First congratulations. I think that, from what I know of the lab, there is a greater disconnect between the items on the lab and the real-world than your posting would reflect. This is not to say that there is no coorelation - rather it is thinner than some of us would like. I'm embarrased when CCIEs can't explain how to use the ARP and CAM tables to find a top talker, or when they can't implement redundancy in OSPF areas. The ones who can typically report that the lab (and its prep) had little to do with their knowledge in these areas. No exam can be everything, and I agree completely that the CCIE is one of the better ones, but I won't hire ANYONE because of the letters after their name - CCIE included. It's impressive, but only within the context of the challenge of the exam. --- Louie Belt wrote: > I respectfully disagree with some of your > assertions. The CCIE cert does > demonstrate that you have an ability to troubleshoot > a network, it also > demonstrates your ability to build a complex network > without leaving out the > details. That's why the CCIE is different from > almost any other cert. The > lab goes past theory and forces practical > application of that theory. > Additionally, it forces you to demonstrate an > ability to handle unknown > scenarios in a timely manner and under extreme > pressure. > > As for my opinion of whether it's worth it - I must > say it absolutely is!! > > Louie Belt > CCIE #7054 > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > Kane, Christopher A. > Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 6:08 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725] > > > I agree that a Cert is not necessarily who you are. > I also agree that a Cert > doesn't mean you can troubleshoot nor does it mean > that you are capable of > designing something that is clean and easily > supportable. But, I feel the > Cert does have a value. It shows that you took the > time to learn what > someone (presumably the vendor) suggested that you > learn in order to better > understand the capabilities of their product. It > shows that you've made the > effort to learn things that you don't normally deal > with on a day-to-day > basis. If you are willing to constantly learn and > grow not only adds to your > value as an employee, but also as a person. > > Further, for those of us who did not finish school, > it hopefully keeps the > recruiter from shutting the door in our face. I have > had a great time in the > 4 years that I have been in this field. I've > received recognition from not > only my peers and immediate management, but also > from senior directors. I've > gained vast amounts of experience, starting at the > NOC level and working up > through the higher levels of support and > engineering. Experience along with > the Cert/s, should allow me to at least talk to the > IT group of a potential > new employer so that I may demonstrate what I am > capable
Re: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725]
This has been a great thread. Can anyone elaborate on how their life has changed since getting the CCIE? Did offers come piling in, did you get promoted, did you have to job search a lot? Thanks. - Original Message - From: "Robert Padjen" > To: > Sent: Friday, May 25, 2001 2:19 AM Subject: RE: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725] > Louie - > > First congratulations. I think that, from what I know > of the lab, there is a greater disconnect between the > items on the lab and the real-world than your posting > would reflect. This is not to say that there is no > coorelation - rather it is thinner than some of us > would like. I'm embarrased when CCIEs can't explain > how to use the ARP and CAM tables to find a top > talker, or when they can't implement redundancy in > OSPF areas. The ones who can typically report that the > lab (and its prep) had little to do with their > knowledge in these areas. No exam can be everything, > and I agree completely that the CCIE is one of the > better ones, but I won't hire ANYONE because of the > letters after their name - CCIE included. It's > impressive, but only within the context of the > challenge of the exam. > > > --- Louie Belt wrote: > > I respectfully disagree with some of your > > assertions. The CCIE cert does > > demonstrate that you have an ability to troubleshoot > > a network, it also > > demonstrates your ability to build a complex network > > without leaving out the > > details. That's why the CCIE is different from > > almost any other cert. The > > lab goes past theory and forces practical > > application of that theory. > > Additionally, it forces you to demonstrate an > > ability to handle unknown > > scenarios in a timely manner and under extreme > > pressure. > > > > As for my opinion of whether it's worth it - I must > > say it absolutely is!! > > > > Louie Belt > > CCIE #7054 > > > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > > Kane, Christopher A. > > Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 6:08 PM > > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Subject: RE: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725] > > > > > > I agree that a Cert is not necessarily who you are. > > I also agree that a Cert > > doesn't mean you can troubleshoot nor does it mean > > that you are capable of > > designing something that is clean and easily > > supportable. But, I feel the > > Cert does have a value. It shows that you took the > > time to learn what > > someone (presumably the vendor) suggested that you > > learn in order to better > > understand the capabilities of their product. It > > shows that you've made the > > effort to learn things that you don't normally deal > > with on a day-to-day > > basis. If you are willing to constantly learn and > > grow not only adds to your > > value as an employee, but also as a person. > > > > Further, for those of us who did not finish school, > > it hopefully keeps the > > recruiter from shutting the door in our face. I have > > had a great time in the > > 4 years that I have been in this field. I've > > received recognition from not > > only my peers and immediate management, but also > > from senior directors. I've > > gained vast amounts of experience, starting at the > > NOC level and working up > > through the higher levels of support and > > engineering. Experience along with > > the Cert/s, should allow me to at least talk to the > > IT group of a potential > > new employer so that I may demonstrate what I am > > capable of. I've seen > > things on this list that concern me. Such as HR > > personnel preferring to talk > > to a CCNA rather than a CCNP because they've been > > told to find the CCNA and > > are not aware of what a CCNP is. Until I can finish > > school, my chances of > > gaining new employment (should I seek it) could be > > greatly diminished > > without something else to show, such as the Cert. > > > > A degree doesn't guarantee that you are a quality > > employee, nor does a Cert. > > But I need all the ammo I can amass should the time > > come that I have to > > polish the resume and start knocking on doors. Maybe > > the CCIE does contain > > some outdated material and maybe it could use some > > tweaking, regardless, my > > major concern lies on the dependence of Cisco to
RE: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725]
Louie - First congratulations. I think that, from what I know of the lab, there is a greater disconnect between the items on the lab and the real-world than your posting would reflect. This is not to say that there is no coorelation - rather it is thinner than some of us would like. I'm embarrased when CCIEs can't explain how to use the ARP and CAM tables to find a top talker, or when they can't implement redundancy in OSPF areas. The ones who can typically report that the lab (and its prep) had little to do with their knowledge in these areas. No exam can be everything, and I agree completely that the CCIE is one of the better ones, but I won't hire ANYONE because of the letters after their name - CCIE included. It's impressive, but only within the context of the challenge of the exam. --- Louie Belt wrote: > I respectfully disagree with some of your > assertions. The CCIE cert does > demonstrate that you have an ability to troubleshoot > a network, it also > demonstrates your ability to build a complex network > without leaving out the > details. That's why the CCIE is different from > almost any other cert. The > lab goes past theory and forces practical > application of that theory. > Additionally, it forces you to demonstrate an > ability to handle unknown > scenarios in a timely manner and under extreme > pressure. > > As for my opinion of whether it's worth it - I must > say it absolutely is!! > > Louie Belt > CCIE #7054 > > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of > Kane, Christopher A. > Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 6:08 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: RE: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725] > > > I agree that a Cert is not necessarily who you are. > I also agree that a Cert > doesn't mean you can troubleshoot nor does it mean > that you are capable of > designing something that is clean and easily > supportable. But, I feel the > Cert does have a value. It shows that you took the > time to learn what > someone (presumably the vendor) suggested that you > learn in order to better > understand the capabilities of their product. It > shows that you've made the > effort to learn things that you don't normally deal > with on a day-to-day > basis. If you are willing to constantly learn and > grow not only adds to your > value as an employee, but also as a person. > > Further, for those of us who did not finish school, > it hopefully keeps the > recruiter from shutting the door in our face. I have > had a great time in the > 4 years that I have been in this field. I've > received recognition from not > only my peers and immediate management, but also > from senior directors. I've > gained vast amounts of experience, starting at the > NOC level and working up > through the higher levels of support and > engineering. Experience along with > the Cert/s, should allow me to at least talk to the > IT group of a potential > new employer so that I may demonstrate what I am > capable of. I've seen > things on this list that concern me. Such as HR > personnel preferring to talk > to a CCNA rather than a CCNP because they've been > told to find the CCNA and > are not aware of what a CCNP is. Until I can finish > school, my chances of > gaining new employment (should I seek it) could be > greatly diminished > without something else to show, such as the Cert. > > A degree doesn't guarantee that you are a quality > employee, nor does a Cert. > But I need all the ammo I can amass should the time > come that I have to > polish the resume and start knocking on doors. Maybe > the CCIE does contain > some outdated material and maybe it could use some > tweaking, regardless, my > major concern lies on the dependence of Cisco to > help maintain that > certification on the level of respect that it > currently holds. > > Thanks for the thread, this is a great discussion. I > enjoy hearing the > opinions of other technicians/engineers. > > Christopher A. Kane, CCNP > Senior Network Control Tech > Router Ops Center/Hilliard NOC > UUNET > (614)723-7877 > > > > -Original Message- > From: Robert Padjen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 6:01 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725] > > > My $.02. > > I have always been disenchanted with the > certifications offered and I would like to believe > that some others in the industry feel the same. This > may be the case here. > > Basically, look at the certification tests. Many are > old,
RE: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725]
Yes, just like military experience, the certifications can augment the 'experience' one brings to the table. But, if I read correctly, we're saying that the cert. gets you in the door, just as a BA or MBA would... --- "Kane, Christopher A." wrote: > I agree that a Cert is not necessarily who you are. > I also agree that a Cert > doesn't mean you can troubleshoot nor does it mean > that you are capable of > designing something that is clean and easily > supportable. But, I feel the > Cert does have a value. It shows that you took the > time to learn what > someone (presumably the vendor) suggested that you > learn in order to better > understand the capabilities of their product. It > shows that you've made the > effort to learn things that you don't normally deal > with on a day-to-day > basis. If you are willing to constantly learn and > grow not only adds to your > value as an employee, but also as a person. > > Further, for those of us who did not finish school, > it hopefully keeps the > recruiter from shutting the door in our face. I have > had a great time in the > 4 years that I have been in this field. I've > received recognition from not > only my peers and immediate management, but also > from senior directors. I've > gained vast amounts of experience, starting at the > NOC level and working up > through the higher levels of support and > engineering. Experience along with > the Cert/s, should allow me to at least talk to the > IT group of a potential > new employer so that I may demonstrate what I am > capable of. I've seen > things on this list that concern me. Such as HR > personnel preferring to talk > to a CCNA rather than a CCNP because they've been > told to find the CCNA and > are not aware of what a CCNP is. Until I can finish > school, my chances of > gaining new employment (should I seek it) could be > greatly diminished > without something else to show, such as the Cert. > > A degree doesn't guarantee that you are a quality > employee, nor does a Cert. > But I need all the ammo I can amass should the time > come that I have to > polish the resume and start knocking on doors. Maybe > the CCIE does contain > some outdated material and maybe it could use some > tweaking, regardless, my > major concern lies on the dependence of Cisco to > help maintain that > certification on the level of respect that it > currently holds. > > Thanks for the thread, this is a great discussion. I > enjoy hearing the > opinions of other technicians/engineers. > > Christopher A. Kane, CCNP > Senior Network Control Tech > Router Ops Center/Hilliard NOC > UUNET > (614)723-7877 > > > > -Original Message- > From: Robert Padjen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 6:01 PM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725] > > > My $.02. > > I have always been disenchanted with the > certifications offered and I would like to believe > that some others in the industry feel the same. This > may be the case here. > > Basically, look at the certification tests. Many are > old, poorly written, irrelevant to production > environments, simple (low percentage of redundancy > or > complex scenario questions) and an overall > difficulty > not related to technological issues but grammar, > construct and marketing. As such, passing proves > that > you can do one thing - pass the test. It doesn't > mean > that you can troubleshoot, design, deploy or manage > anything. Is Erlang-B important in routing and > switching? Is knowing the port density on the Z > series > router valuable when the product was replaced two > years ago? > > It's not sour grapes - I'm certified. But, its on > the > last page of my resume, and its not who I am. I'm > me, > and I happen to be certified. Its not I'm certified > (along with X others) and I'm one of many. > > Also, I know a lot of people who will not disclose > their certs, including CCIE, unless asked. It's > being > humble. > > I don't think that anyone is incapable of passing > the > X test/exam. Its a matter of time, money, pain and > desire. A lot of great people in this industry are > great because they are good - not because a test > told > the world that they were. > > > > --- Donald B Johnson jr > wrote: > > I don't agree, people who write technically, their > > reputation is centered > > around how accurate their writing is, and where > > mistakes are made how > > quickly they fix those e
RE: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725]
I respectfully disagree with some of your assertions. The CCIE cert does demonstrate that you have an ability to troubleshoot a network, it also demonstrates your ability to build a complex network without leaving out the details. That's why the CCIE is different from almost any other cert. The lab goes past theory and forces practical application of that theory. Additionally, it forces you to demonstrate an ability to handle unknown scenarios in a timely manner and under extreme pressure. As for my opinion of whether it's worth it - I must say it absolutely is!! Louie Belt CCIE #7054 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Kane, Christopher A. Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 6:08 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725] I agree that a Cert is not necessarily who you are. I also agree that a Cert doesn't mean you can troubleshoot nor does it mean that you are capable of designing something that is clean and easily supportable. But, I feel the Cert does have a value. It shows that you took the time to learn what someone (presumably the vendor) suggested that you learn in order to better understand the capabilities of their product. It shows that you've made the effort to learn things that you don't normally deal with on a day-to-day basis. If you are willing to constantly learn and grow not only adds to your value as an employee, but also as a person. Further, for those of us who did not finish school, it hopefully keeps the recruiter from shutting the door in our face. I have had a great time in the 4 years that I have been in this field. I've received recognition from not only my peers and immediate management, but also from senior directors. I've gained vast amounts of experience, starting at the NOC level and working up through the higher levels of support and engineering. Experience along with the Cert/s, should allow me to at least talk to the IT group of a potential new employer so that I may demonstrate what I am capable of. I've seen things on this list that concern me. Such as HR personnel preferring to talk to a CCNA rather than a CCNP because they've been told to find the CCNA and are not aware of what a CCNP is. Until I can finish school, my chances of gaining new employment (should I seek it) could be greatly diminished without something else to show, such as the Cert. A degree doesn't guarantee that you are a quality employee, nor does a Cert. But I need all the ammo I can amass should the time come that I have to polish the resume and start knocking on doors. Maybe the CCIE does contain some outdated material and maybe it could use some tweaking, regardless, my major concern lies on the dependence of Cisco to help maintain that certification on the level of respect that it currently holds. Thanks for the thread, this is a great discussion. I enjoy hearing the opinions of other technicians/engineers. Christopher A. Kane, CCNP Senior Network Control Tech Router Ops Center/Hilliard NOC UUNET (614)723-7877 -Original Message- From: Robert Padjen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 6:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725] My $.02. I have always been disenchanted with the certifications offered and I would like to believe that some others in the industry feel the same. This may be the case here. Basically, look at the certification tests. Many are old, poorly written, irrelevant to production environments, simple (low percentage of redundancy or complex scenario questions) and an overall difficulty not related to technological issues but grammar, construct and marketing. As such, passing proves that you can do one thing - pass the test. It doesn't mean that you can troubleshoot, design, deploy or manage anything. Is Erlang-B important in routing and switching? Is knowing the port density on the Z series router valuable when the product was replaced two years ago? It's not sour grapes - I'm certified. But, its on the last page of my resume, and its not who I am. I'm me, and I happen to be certified. Its not I'm certified (along with X others) and I'm one of many. Also, I know a lot of people who will not disclose their certs, including CCIE, unless asked. It's being humble. I don't think that anyone is incapable of passing the X test/exam. Its a matter of time, money, pain and desire. A lot of great people in this industry are great because they are good - not because a test told the world that they were. --- Donald B Johnson jr wrote: > I don't agree, people who write technically, their > reputation is centered > around how accurate their writing is, and where > mistakes are made how > quickly they fix those errors. I don't see where > failing a test, would > invalidate anyone'
RE: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725]
I agree that a Cert is not necessarily who you are. I also agree that a Cert doesn't mean you can troubleshoot nor does it mean that you are capable of designing something that is clean and easily supportable. But, I feel the Cert does have a value. It shows that you took the time to learn what someone (presumably the vendor) suggested that you learn in order to better understand the capabilities of their product. It shows that you've made the effort to learn things that you don't normally deal with on a day-to-day basis. If you are willing to constantly learn and grow not only adds to your value as an employee, but also as a person. Further, for those of us who did not finish school, it hopefully keeps the recruiter from shutting the door in our face. I have had a great time in the 4 years that I have been in this field. I've received recognition from not only my peers and immediate management, but also from senior directors. I've gained vast amounts of experience, starting at the NOC level and working up through the higher levels of support and engineering. Experience along with the Cert/s, should allow me to at least talk to the IT group of a potential new employer so that I may demonstrate what I am capable of. I've seen things on this list that concern me. Such as HR personnel preferring to talk to a CCNA rather than a CCNP because they've been told to find the CCNA and are not aware of what a CCNP is. Until I can finish school, my chances of gaining new employment (should I seek it) could be greatly diminished without something else to show, such as the Cert. A degree doesn't guarantee that you are a quality employee, nor does a Cert. But I need all the ammo I can amass should the time come that I have to polish the resume and start knocking on doors. Maybe the CCIE does contain some outdated material and maybe it could use some tweaking, regardless, my major concern lies on the dependence of Cisco to help maintain that certification on the level of respect that it currently holds. Thanks for the thread, this is a great discussion. I enjoy hearing the opinions of other technicians/engineers. Christopher A. Kane, CCNP Senior Network Control Tech Router Ops Center/Hilliard NOC UUNET (614)723-7877 -Original Message- From: Robert Padjen [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 6:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725] My $.02. I have always been disenchanted with the certifications offered and I would like to believe that some others in the industry feel the same. This may be the case here. Basically, look at the certification tests. Many are old, poorly written, irrelevant to production environments, simple (low percentage of redundancy or complex scenario questions) and an overall difficulty not related to technological issues but grammar, construct and marketing. As such, passing proves that you can do one thing - pass the test. It doesn't mean that you can troubleshoot, design, deploy or manage anything. Is Erlang-B important in routing and switching? Is knowing the port density on the Z series router valuable when the product was replaced two years ago? It's not sour grapes - I'm certified. But, its on the last page of my resume, and its not who I am. I'm me, and I happen to be certified. Its not I'm certified (along with X others) and I'm one of many. Also, I know a lot of people who will not disclose their certs, including CCIE, unless asked. It's being humble. I don't think that anyone is incapable of passing the X test/exam. Its a matter of time, money, pain and desire. A lot of great people in this industry are great because they are good - not because a test told the world that they were. --- Donald B Johnson jr wrote: > I don't agree, people who write technically, their > reputation is centered > around how accurate their writing is, and where > mistakes are made how > quickly they fix those errors. I don't see where > failing a test, would > invalidate anyone's writing or lessen their > reputation. The quoted > explanation may be true I am not disputing that, it > probably is a factor, I > just think it is unfounded. > > > ----- Original Message - > From: "Kevin Schwantz" > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 8:07 AM > Subject: Re: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725] > > > > Did you know that many of the top Cisco engineers > are not CCIE qualified? > I > > have always wondered why people like Sam Halabi > and the likes do not get > > certified.A Cisco employee told me that these > people have everything to > lose > > and nothing to gain if they take the CCIE exam. If > they refrain from > taking > > the tests, their reputation stays intact. If they > take th
Re: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725]
My $.02. I have always been disenchanted with the certifications offered and I would like to believe that some others in the industry feel the same. This may be the case here. Basically, look at the certification tests. Many are old, poorly written, irrelevant to production environments, simple (low percentage of redundancy or complex scenario questions) and an overall difficulty not related to technological issues but grammar, construct and marketing. As such, passing proves that you can do one thing - pass the test. It doesn't mean that you can troubleshoot, design, deploy or manage anything. Is Erlang-B important in routing and switching? Is knowing the port density on the Z series router valuable when the product was replaced two years ago? It's not sour grapes - I'm certified. But, its on the last page of my resume, and its not who I am. I'm me, and I happen to be certified. Its not I'm certified (along with X others) and I'm one of many. Also, I know a lot of people who will not disclose their certs, including CCIE, unless asked. It's being humble. I don't think that anyone is incapable of passing the X test/exam. Its a matter of time, money, pain and desire. A lot of great people in this industry are great because they are good - not because a test told the world that they were. --- Donald B Johnson jr wrote: > I don't agree, people who write technically, their > reputation is centered > around how accurate their writing is, and where > mistakes are made how > quickly they fix those errors. I don't see where > failing a test, would > invalidate anyone's writing or lessen their > reputation. The quoted > explanation may be true I am not disputing that, it > probably is a factor, I > just think it is unfounded. > > > - Original Message ----- > From: "Kevin Schwantz" > To: > Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 8:07 AM > Subject: Re: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725] > > > > Did you know that many of the top Cisco engineers > are not CCIE qualified? > I > > have always wondered why people like Sam Halabi > and the likes do not get > > certified.A Cisco employee told me that these > people have everything to > lose > > and nothing to gain if they take the CCIE exam. If > they refrain from > taking > > the tests, their reputation stays intact. If they > take the test and fail, > > people will start to question their credibility. > > > > Kevin > > > > ""Morabito Joe"" wrote in message > > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > > Hi, > > > > > > I want to ask a question to those already CCIEs. > Is it really worth it? > > > Don't get me wrong, I love the work and the > learning. I actually plan > to > > > take the lab by july of next year, but how has > your life changed since > > > obtaining your ccie? Was it what you expected? > Better or worse? > > > > > > Please share your life experience after reaching > the big goal. > Personally > > I > > > can't wait to achieve CCIE status. > > > > > > Thanks. > > > > > > Joe Morabito > > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > > > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations > to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] = Robert Padjen __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=5799&t=5725 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725]
I'd agree there is nothing to gain, either for people who are writers/advanced support (as Halabi was -- he no longer works for Cisco), or are development engineers. The skills tested for in CCIE aren't all that relevant to what developers do. The skills tested for in CCIE don't have much to do with how clearly someone can explain a topic. I don't know Cisco's internal incentives programs, but I would strongly suspect that writing RFCs, having patents awarded, or generally being recognized as an industry expert is far more important than a certification. As far as the value of having a CCIE, it depends what you want to do professionally. I personally would gain no benefit from it, but I'm principally a developer, designer, and author. Some of the skills, though, are like the proverbial never forgetting how to ride a bicycle--a friend called me a couple of weekends ago with an EIGRP-OSPF conversion in complete chaos, and I straightened out the network in about 3 hours, both configuring some routers myself and telling others how to fix their configs. >I don't agree, people who write technically, their reputation is centered >around how accurate their writing is, and where mistakes are made how >quickly they fix those errors. I don't see where failing a test, would >invalidate anyone's writing or lessen their reputation. The quoted >explanation may be true I am not disputing that, it probably is a factor, I >just think it is unfounded. > > >- Original Message - >From: "Kevin Schwantz" >To: >Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 8:07 AM >Subject: Re: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725] > > >> Did you know that many of the top Cisco engineers are not CCIE qualified? >I >> have always wondered why people like Sam Halabi and the likes do not get >> certified.A Cisco employee told me that these people have everything to >lose >> and nothing to gain if they take the CCIE exam. If they refrain from >taking >> the tests, their reputation stays intact. If they take the test and fail, >> people will start to question their credibility. >> >> Kevin >> >> ""Morabito Joe"" wrote in message >> [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... >> > Hi, >> > >> > I want to ask a question to those already CCIEs. Is it really worth it? >> > Don't get me wrong, I love the work and the learning. I actually plan >to >> > take the lab by july of next year, but how has your life changed since >> > obtaining your ccie? Was it what you expected? Better or worse? >> > >> > Please share your life experience after reaching the big goal. >Personally >> I >> > can't wait to achieve CCIE status. >> > >> > Thanks. >> > >> > Joe Morabito > > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=5791&t=5725 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725]
I don't agree, people who write technically, their reputation is centered around how accurate their writing is, and where mistakes are made how quickly they fix those errors. I don't see where failing a test, would invalidate anyone's writing or lessen their reputation. The quoted explanation may be true I am not disputing that, it probably is a factor, I just think it is unfounded. - Original Message - From: "Kevin Schwantz" To: Sent: Thursday, May 24, 2001 8:07 AM Subject: Re: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725] > Did you know that many of the top Cisco engineers are not CCIE qualified? I > have always wondered why people like Sam Halabi and the likes do not get > certified.A Cisco employee told me that these people have everything to lose > and nothing to gain if they take the CCIE exam. If they refrain from taking > the tests, their reputation stays intact. If they take the test and fail, > people will start to question their credibility. > > Kevin > > ""Morabito Joe"" wrote in message > [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > > Hi, > > > > I want to ask a question to those already CCIEs. Is it really worth it? > > Don't get me wrong, I love the work and the learning. I actually plan to > > take the lab by july of next year, but how has your life changed since > > obtaining your ccie? Was it what you expected? Better or worse? > > > > Please share your life experience after reaching the big goal. Personally > I > > can't wait to achieve CCIE status. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Joe Morabito > > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: > http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=5783&t=5725 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725]
Did you know that many of the top Cisco engineers are not CCIE qualified? I have always wondered why people like Sam Halabi and the likes do not get certified.A Cisco employee told me that these people have everything to lose and nothing to gain if they take the CCIE exam. If they refrain from taking the tests, their reputation stays intact. If they take the test and fail, people will start to question their credibility. Kevin ""Morabito Joe"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > Hi, > > I want to ask a question to those already CCIEs. Is it really worth it? > Don't get me wrong, I love the work and the learning. I actually plan to > take the lab by july of next year, but how has your life changed since > obtaining your ccie? Was it what you expected? Better or worse? > > Please share your life experience after reaching the big goal. Personally I > can't wait to achieve CCIE status. > > Thanks. > > Joe Morabito > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=5742&t=5725 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Is it really worth it? "CCIE" [7:5725]
Hi, I want to ask a question to those already CCIEs. Is it really worth it? Don't get me wrong, I love the work and the learning. I actually plan to take the lab by july of next year, but how has your life changed since obtaining your ccie? Was it what you expected? Better or worse? Please share your life experience after reaching the big goal. Personally I can't wait to achieve CCIE status. Thanks. Joe Morabito Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=5725&t=5725 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
