RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328]
I didn't realize you sent this to the group so, I will post my response here. Harold, You have nothing to apologize for. I thought the hot vendor thing was funny. I am glad I found a place where people are in the same position I am in. It was really lonely trying to go through all these tests, reading, and studying on my own. I get the impression you are going through the same thing I am. You have experience in the IT field, your talented, motivated, passed some tests and your frustrated to find out its hard to break into the Cisco world. I hope things work out for you. In a way, I see us as in this togehter. If you ever need anything, don't hesitate to ask. If you live in New York City, I would be happy to share my lab. If you want resume help, just forward it to me. I haven't set a date. I have been working on the CCDP and the CSS-1. I think it will help my short term job hunting potential. I am taking a CCIE Lab class hopefully in July or August. I would like to attempt the test before my wife and I have a baby at the end of September. X -Original Message- From: Logan, Harold [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 2:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328] x, I apologize if my email insinuated that you aren't talented or qualified; that wasn't my intent. I applaud your motives for pursuing the IE; they aren't far from my own. I think you should be prepared though, as should I, to find out after we get our numbers that the CCIE is going to be listed for many jobs as a minimum requirement. The job market is governed by supply and demand; it always has been, it always will be. The demand for IE's has dropped, while the supply is steadily increasing. Good luck with your job hunt, and likewise I hope your lab goes well. Have you set a date yet? -Original Message- From: x [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thu 4/4/2002 12:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Subject: RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328] I guess I wasn't completely clear in my original post. I am not a recent CCNA graduate with no experience in the field or a "street vendor"(this one is pretty funny to me living in New York). I am looking for Cisco career advice. Judging from the responses, I am not the only person who wants to make the leap from a job that is part time Cisco to full time Cisco. I have been in the IT field for 6 years and moved from desktop, to Novell, to NT, to Unix. I passed the CNE and got a junior Novell position. I passed the MCSE and then got a junior position. I worked on learning OpenBSD, FreeBSD, Solaris, and Redhat Linux and got a NT/Unix job that included Cisco switches, a vpn concentrator, a PIX and a PIX to PIX vpn. I also passed the CCDA, CCNA, CCNP, and the CCIE written. I am planning on taking the CCDP and CSS-1 before finishing my CCIE. I have my own home lab complete with 6 routers and a Catalyst 5000. I would like to get more hands on Cisco experience in the real world before I try the CCIE Lab. I am in a position now where I am certified to a degree, have some experience, and a home lab. Usually at this point I can land a junior position and get real experience to move into a senior position. It just seems like a huge gap in the job market. All the job ads from Hotjobs, monster, and headhunter are looking for Cisco people are asking for CCIE's or people with 5+ years experience. These people had to get that experience somewhere and there must be Cisco positions that don't require a CCIE. I am going to go out on a limb assuming there are company's with 10 to 20 routers or resellers that need CCNPs or companies that can't afford to hire a CCIE, but need Cisco help. Where are these jobs posted? Do I need to know a secret handshake? hehe If you are a CCIE or have 5+ years Cisco experience how did you get it(Priscilla Openhiemer might have spelled that wrong or any other CCIEs or highly experienced people on the list)? I would like to hear your story of how you "made it." Maybe it can give me an idea of what I need to do. This brings me to why I want to be a CCIE. I first heard the CCIE was the most difficult certification to achieve when I was just starting in networking. I was told the CCIE Lab is almost impossible and there were only about 5,000 CCIEs compared to 80,000 MCSEs or CNEs. I was hooked. Its not about the money, because anyone can make plenty of money just doing Microsoft, N
RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328]
This is a good question and definitely a big part of the question I am trying to ask. -Original Message- From: Andy Wu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 2:42 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328] Maybe your question should be: Do most CCIEs obtain their current job because of their extensive experience and CCIE cert came later or do they get their CCIE cert first with some experience similar to yours and then the job doors start openning up for them? The answer to this question will probably give you a better idea on how to approach/shape your current job or start looking! Andy This e-mail and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the person(s) to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete the message and all copies of it from your system, destroy any hard copies of it and contact the sender by return e-mail. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=40511&t=40328 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328]
Maybe your question should be: Do most CCIEs obtain their current job because of their extensive experience and CCIE cert came later or do they get their CCIE cert first with some experience similar to yours and then the job doors start openning up for them? The answer to this question will probably give you a better idea on how to approach/shape your current job or start looking! Andy Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=40510&t=40328 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328]
x,
I apologize if my email insinuated that you aren't talented or qualified;
that wasn't my intent. I applaud your motives for pursuing the IE; they
aren't far from my own. I think you should be prepared though, as should I,
to find out after we get our numbers that the CCIE is going to be listed for
many jobs as a minimum requirement. The job market is governed by supply and
demand; it always has been, it always will be. The demand for IE's has
dropped, while the supply is steadily increasing.
Good luck with your job hunt, and likewise I hope your lab goes well. Have
you set a date yet?
-Original Message-
From: x [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thu 4/4/2002 12:29 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc:
Subject: RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328]
I guess I wasn't completely clear in my original post.
I am not a recent CCNA graduate with no experience in
the field or a "street vendor"(this one is pretty
funny to me living in New York). I am looking for
Cisco career advice. Judging from the responses, I am
not the only person who wants to make the leap from a
job that is part time Cisco to full time Cisco.
I have been in the IT field for 6 years and moved from
desktop, to Novell, to NT, to Unix. I passed the CNE
and got a junior Novell position. I passed the MCSE
and then got a junior position. I worked on learning
OpenBSD, FreeBSD, Solaris, and Redhat Linux and got a
NT/Unix job that included Cisco switches, a vpn
concentrator, a PIX and a PIX to PIX vpn. I also
passed the CCDA, CCNA, CCNP, and the CCIE written. I
am planning on taking the CCDP and CSS-1 before
finishing my CCIE. I have my own home lab complete
with 6 routers and a Catalyst 5000. I would like to
get more hands on Cisco experience in the real world
before I try the CCIE Lab. I am in a position now
where I am certified to a degree, have some
experience, and a home lab. Usually at this point I
can land a junior position and get real experience to
move into a senior position. It just seems like a huge
gap in the job market.
All the job ads from Hotjobs, monster, and headhunter
are looking for Cisco people are asking for CCIE's or
people with 5+ years experience. These people had to
get that experience somewhere and there must be Cisco
positions that don't require a CCIE. I am going to go
out on a limb assuming there are company's with 10 to
20 routers or resellers that need CCNPs or companies
that can't afford to hire a CCIE, but need Cisco help.
Where are these jobs posted? Do I need to know a
secret handshake? hehe If you are a CCIE or have 5+
years Cisco experience how did you get it(Priscilla
Openhiemer might have spelled that wrong or any other
CCIEs or highly experienced people on the list)? I
would like to hear your story of how you "made it."
Maybe it can give me an idea of what I need to do.
This brings me to why I want to be a CCIE. I first
heard the CCIE was the most difficult certification to
achieve when I was just starting in networking. I was
told the CCIE Lab is almost impossible and there were
only about 5,000 CCIEs compared to 80,000 MCSEs or
CNEs. I was hooked. Its not about the money, because
anyone can make plenty of money just doing Microsoft,
Novell and/or Unix with alot less effort. It isn't
because Cisco is "hot." Its because this is the
biggest challenge in networking and when I do
something I want to be the best.
-Original Message-
From: Logan, Harold [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 4:24 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs?
[7:40328]
I don't mean to offend anyone, but the job market
doesn't owe anyone a job,
and I include myself with that statement. Right now a
CCNA or NP with little
or no experience is going to have as much luck selling
that skillset as a
street vendor selling "September 11th - We will not
forget" stickers. There
was a heavy demand for them 6 months ago, but there's
hardly any demand for
them now. If you don't think that analogy applies to
IT, then there are some
COBOL programmers I'd like to introduce you to.
Face it, there is little if any demand forpeople with
just a CCNA, or even
an NP without much work experience. I feel bad f
RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328]
Great email, x -- if I was in a position to hire someone right now, you'd be at the top of my list. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of x Sent: Thursday, April 04, 2002 9:29 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328] I guess I wasn't completely clear in my original post. I am not a recent CCNA graduate with no experience in the field or a "street vendor"(this one is pretty funny to me living in New York). I am looking for Cisco career advice. Judging from the responses, I am not the only person who wants to make the leap from a job that is part time Cisco to full time Cisco. I have been in the IT field for 6 years and moved from desktop, to Novell, to NT, to Unix. I passed the CNE and got a junior Novell position. I passed the MCSE and then got a junior position. I worked on learning OpenBSD, FreeBSD, Solaris, and Redhat Linux and got a NT/Unix job that included Cisco switches, a vpn concentrator, a PIX and a PIX to PIX vpn. I also passed the CCDA, CCNA, CCNP, and the CCIE written. I am planning on taking the CCDP and CSS-1 before finishing my CCIE. I have my own home lab complete with 6 routers and a Catalyst 5000. I would like to get more hands on Cisco experience in the real world before I try the CCIE Lab. I am in a position now where I am certified to a degree, have some experience, and a home lab. Usually at this point I can land a junior position and get real experience to move into a senior position. It just seems like a huge gap in the job market. All the job ads from Hotjobs, monster, and headhunter are looking for Cisco people are asking for CCIE's or people with 5+ years experience. These people had to get that experience somewhere and there must be Cisco positions that don't require a CCIE. I am going to go out on a limb assuming there are company's with 10 to 20 routers or resellers that need CCNPs or companies that can't afford to hire a CCIE, but need Cisco help. Where are these jobs posted? Do I need to know a secret handshake? hehe If you are a CCIE or have 5+ years Cisco experience how did you get it(Priscilla Openhiemer might have spelled that wrong or any other CCIEs or highly experienced people on the list)? I would like to hear your story of how you "made it." Maybe it can give me an idea of what I need to do. This brings me to why I want to be a CCIE. I first heard the CCIE was the most difficult certification to achieve when I was just starting in networking. I was told the CCIE Lab is almost impossible and there were only about 5,000 CCIEs compared to 80,000 MCSEs or CNEs. I was hooked. Its not about the money, because anyone can make plenty of money just doing Microsoft, Novell and/or Unix with alot less effort. It isn't because Cisco is "hot." Its because this is the biggest challenge in networking and when I do something I want to be the best. -Original Message- From: Logan, Harold [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 4:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328] I don't mean to offend anyone, but the job market doesn't owe anyone a job, and I include myself with that statement. Right now a CCNA or NP with little or no experience is going to have as much luck selling that skillset as a street vendor selling "September 11th - We will not forget" stickers. There was a heavy demand for them 6 months ago, but there's hardly any demand for them now. If you don't think that analogy applies to IT, then there are some COBOL programmers I'd like to introduce you to. Face it, there is little if any demand forpeople with just a CCNA, or even an NP without much work experience. I feel bad for you, I really do. So adapt; look to see what there is a demand for, and more importantly what there will be a demand for, and work towards fitting that mold. Sorry if I sound bitter, but here's my perspective - every year my school kicks out at least a dozen CCNA's, and that's considered low. Original Message----- From: Lomker, Michael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wed 4/3/2002 2:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Subject: RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328] > How do I get a job that works with Cisco products, > without alot of experience or a CCIE? No kidding and good luck. Even when the economy was good I couldn't find a job. If you have a BSEE your odds are a lot better, but my business degree didn't get me anywhere. My current position is 75% NT and 25% Cisco. You might have to find a job like mine at a company that will give you some exposure to the Cisco equipment. [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - onl
RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328]
> I guess I wasn't completely clear in my original post. I think you were clear, but topics seem to drift as they move along. > I have been in the IT field for 6 years and moved from > desktop, to Novell, to NT, to Unix. I passed the CNE > and got a junior Novell position. I passed the MCSE That's the same progression that I made. I started with a CNE in March of `94, went to Microsoft, and now onto Cisco. I've never cared for Unix, though (unless you consider OS-X to be Unix). > finishing my CCIE. I have my own home lab complete > with 6 routers and a Catalyst 5000. I would like to You're ahead of many folks. I need to find the money for a home lab. > out on a limb assuming there are company's with 10 to > 20 routers or resellers that need CCNPs or companies There should be quite a few, actually. Most resellers are not interesting in paying for a CCIE, but they want the skillset. With you breadth of experience I should think you'd be a good candidate. However, much of your time at resellers isn't going to be Cisco work...I spent a lot more time doing NT installs. My recommendation would be to "network" and try to get yourself into a telco or other telecom company. A lot of those jobs are like you said...people that recommend their friends/acquaintences. > only about 5,000 CCIEs compared to 80,000 MCSEs or > CNEs. I was hooked. Its not about the money, because There are a lot of MCSE's but not so many MCSE+I's or MCSE's that are also CNE's, CCNP's, etc. It is the breadth of your skills that matters with many jobs. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=40495&t=40328 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328]
I guess I wasn't completely clear in my original post. I am not a recent CCNA graduate with no experience in the field or a "street vendor"(this one is pretty funny to me living in New York). I am looking for Cisco career advice. Judging from the responses, I am not the only person who wants to make the leap from a job that is part time Cisco to full time Cisco. I have been in the IT field for 6 years and moved from desktop, to Novell, to NT, to Unix. I passed the CNE and got a junior Novell position. I passed the MCSE and then got a junior position. I worked on learning OpenBSD, FreeBSD, Solaris, and Redhat Linux and got a NT/Unix job that included Cisco switches, a vpn concentrator, a PIX and a PIX to PIX vpn. I also passed the CCDA, CCNA, CCNP, and the CCIE written. I am planning on taking the CCDP and CSS-1 before finishing my CCIE. I have my own home lab complete with 6 routers and a Catalyst 5000. I would like to get more hands on Cisco experience in the real world before I try the CCIE Lab. I am in a position now where I am certified to a degree, have some experience, and a home lab. Usually at this point I can land a junior position and get real experience to move into a senior position. It just seems like a huge gap in the job market. All the job ads from Hotjobs, monster, and headhunter are looking for Cisco people are asking for CCIE's or people with 5+ years experience. These people had to get that experience somewhere and there must be Cisco positions that don't require a CCIE. I am going to go out on a limb assuming there are company's with 10 to 20 routers or resellers that need CCNPs or companies that can't afford to hire a CCIE, but need Cisco help. Where are these jobs posted? Do I need to know a secret handshake? hehe If you are a CCIE or have 5+ years Cisco experience how did you get it(Priscilla Openhiemer might have spelled that wrong or any other CCIEs or highly experienced people on the list)? I would like to hear your story of how you "made it." Maybe it can give me an idea of what I need to do. This brings me to why I want to be a CCIE. I first heard the CCIE was the most difficult certification to achieve when I was just starting in networking. I was told the CCIE Lab is almost impossible and there were only about 5,000 CCIEs compared to 80,000 MCSEs or CNEs. I was hooked. Its not about the money, because anyone can make plenty of money just doing Microsoft, Novell and/or Unix with alot less effort. It isn't because Cisco is "hot." Its because this is the biggest challenge in networking and when I do something I want to be the best. -Original Message- From: Logan, Harold [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 4:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328] I don't mean to offend anyone, but the job market doesn't owe anyone a job, and I include myself with that statement. Right now a CCNA or NP with little or no experience is going to have as much luck selling that skillset as a street vendor selling "September 11th - We will not forget" stickers. There was a heavy demand for them 6 months ago, but there's hardly any demand for them now. If you don't think that analogy applies to IT, then there are some COBOL programmers I'd like to introduce you to. Face it, there is little if any demand forpeople with just a CCNA, or even an NP without much work experience. I feel bad for you, I really do. So adapt; look to see what there is a demand for, and more importantly what there will be a demand for, and work towards fitting that mold. Sorry if I sound bitter, but here's my perspective - every year my school kicks out at least a dozen CCNA's, and that's considered low. Original Message- From: Lomker, Michael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wed 4/3/2002 2:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Subject: RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328] > How do I get a job that works with Cisco products, > without alot of experience or a CCIE? No kidding and good luck. Even when the economy was good I couldn't find a job. If you have a BSEE your odds are a lot better, but my business degree didn't get me anywhere. My current position is 75% NT and 25% Cisco. You might have to find a job like mine at a company that will give you some exposure to the Cisco equipment. [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=40491&t=40328 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328]
If you are a new CCNA/CCNP with no hands on experience, get a lab, get a
router, even a router simulor if you have to. Its better then nothing.
If your young energetic, positive attitude, employers will notice.
No matter what people tell you, companies are looking for Junior
Engineers now more then anytime ever. If you have a "go getter"
attitude, they might take notice. That is what is needed, because a lot
of places look at you as an entire package. One advantage you have is
you cost less then a senior engineer. As long as you have a "willing to
learn" attitude, they know your going to work hard. I have a "don't take
no as an answer attitude", Ill take 1000 no's to get one yes. If you
take an approach like "I am going to get this job by any means necessary
(keep it legal though)", you're going to get noticed. Call the mail
room, get a phone list. If one person in HR tells you no, find someone
else. Call 500 times, Call the CEO. If they see you want in that bad,
there going to let you in. Tell them your work extra hours, weekends,
holidays, travel to wherever.
The market has been down, and I haven't let that discourage me. I see
other people slacking with there certs (not this group), and that makes
me work twice as hard. I don't want to make excuses, and I don't want to
look back 2 years from now saying "I shoulda" and "only if". Nothing in
my life has been handed to be, and in reality, a CCNP router job is not
going to come knock on your door for anyone. And either is anything else
in life, its amazing how some people thing that.
Your going to fail, your going to get some "NO's". As a matter of a
fact, a recruiter told me, (after I didn't take job from them).
"Companies are not going to look at you, You don't have Enterprise
experience." He was angry that I didn't take a contract. Ironicly, the
same guy called me back 2 weeks later saying he had a position for one
of his largest companies. Event though the recruiter talked to me like a
piece of ###, I didn't lash back. One of the main reason was I didn't
want to get "Blacklisted", or even take a chance of getting a bad rap.
Your going to get a few slaps in the face as well.
Well I hope this helps you out a little, if you believe in yourself, you
will be fine.
>>> "Lomker, Michael" 04/03/02 02:49PM >>>
> How do I get a job that works with Cisco products,
> without alot of experience or a CCIE?
No kidding and good luck. Even when the economy was good I couldn't
find a
job. If you have a BSEE your odds are a lot better, but my business
degree
didn't get me anywhere.
My current position is 75% NT and 25% Cisco. You might have to find a
job
like mine at a company that will give you some exposure to the Cisco
equipment.
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RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328]
I completely understand what you're dealing with. I'm a CCNP, and I'm fortunate to be doing Network Engineering/Unix infrastructure administration for an AT&T subsidiary in No. Virginia. However, I'll probably be looking elsewhere in the not too distant future so that I can broaden my exposure to some technologies that we aren't using here but that I need hands-on time with to increase my networking skills. I'm prepared to meet with a hostile experience as employers weed out all but the brightest Engineers on the market. I'm certain that some of them will weed me out, too! Here's something I try to include as a selling point when I interview and I hint to it in the objective statement of my resume: I consider myself very fortunate to truly enjoy the work that I do, and the more of it I can get my hands on, the better. I'm sure to tell them that I have a well-formed lab in my home. If something stumps me, I go and beat my head against a router in the evenings until I understand it. This is not a 9-to-5 occupation for me. From an employer's prospective, finding someone who is passionate about the work they do is very important, especially considering that Network Engineers tend to endure some not so ideal working conditions (cold data-centers, lots of travel, weird hours, etc.) A person who does this work solely for the money is more of a liability than an assett. One piece of advice that I have for you, especially in the tough job market we are currently experiencing...Never describe yourself as a CCNP, CCDA with, as you put it, "a little router experience". This may be a completely true fact, but to an employer, a statement like that completely nullifies your certifications and all the hard work you have put into them. After all, hands-on is what it's all about in their eyes. The job-hunting game is much like selling cars; you have to make the customer (in this case your prospective employer) think that the car (you) they are looking at is the hottest thing on the road. I'm not saying that you should make up skills that you don't have (dishonesty almost always come back to haunt you (especially on a resume or job interview)), but certainly don't advertise the fact that your certifications were gained through books and classroom training alone (not that this is the case for you). If you have a can-do, can-learn-anything kind of attitude, you might just get them to see past some of your short-comings (like lack of years of experience). When I started my current job, I was an MCSE and brand-new CCNA who barely knew what OSPF or BGP stood for, let alone how to design and administer a network that uses them. The guy who interviewed me told me after I had been hired that I was chosen over another candidate who had a little more experience than me because I expressed such enjoyment in my work and a strong willingness to do whatever it took to become fluent in the technologies they were using. He said it was apparent that this was a career, not just a paycheck to me. Sorry, I know that this is way OT, I just thought it was important to point out that you may be making an impression that you don't want to make, and that confidence and passion on an interview (and your resume, for that matter) might be just the ticket to get you past some of the hurdles in front of you. Best of luck in your search and my apologies to the list for the lost bandwidth. Kelly Cobean, CCNP, CCSA, ACSA, MCSE, MCP+I Network Engineer GRC International, Inc., an AT&T company -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of x Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 9:12 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328] I live in the US. I have been casually looking for a new job while I have been working on my CCDP and CSS-1. I already have the CCNP, CCDA, MCSE, CNE, Unix experience, a little router experience, VPN conncentrator 3005, hands on switch and PIX experience. I have put all this on my resume. Am I missing some certification or training? It seems like all the Cisco related jobs require 5+ years of hands on experience or a CCIE. This creates a chicken and the egg problem for me. I want to get more hands on experience than my current job offers to prepare for the CCIE, but in order to get the experience you need to be a CCIE. I realize the economy isn't very good right now, but where are the junior level Cisco positions? How did the current CCIEs become CCIEs? How do I get a job that works with Cisco products, without alot of experience or a CCIE? Just Frustrated... __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax http://taxes.yahoo.com/ Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=40463&t=40328 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct
RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328]
I think it is turning around, my phone has just recently been ringing a lot for contracts. And they know not to call with Mc Donald's hamburger contracts. I am in a bad area for tech PA. And if you are in Florida, that is not a great area either for tech. Like I said, everyone moved out of here, so what is left is just the exact amount of engineers with the exact amount of jobs. 1 to 1, everyone is settled in. What happens when demand comes up? There not going to get engineers that moved to Virginia, TX and California to move back to PA in a day. The economy is coming back, the best part about it is that there is going to be an upset for employers. This translates into to more money again for consultants. Ever notice when a consultant needs a job, he usually is smart enough to have enough money for 4-5 months worth of rent food etc. Not really an emergency. Now, Ever seen when a company needs someone? They don't think at all, they just call someone and yell "I NEED A MCSE/CCNA/CCNP/CCIE right NOW!" Most times they are filling positions because of an emergency, or a project that needs to get done ASAP. Companies are going to get blindsided by this. A lot of people are leaving the tech industry for other fields. I know we all have come to a point where we wanted to do something else when serious problems occur. Soon Consultants will be the ones laughing, and they will have employers fighting over them. That's when you sit back and deal on your terms. Tell them you will call them back when you are ready. I have been in IT for over 10 years, and I can tell that sometimes the companies decides what employees/contractors they want, sometimes the consultants decide what companies they want. -Original Message- From: Logan, Harold [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 4:24 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328] I don't mean to offend anyone, but the job market doesn't owe anyone a job, and I include myself with that statement. Right now a CCNA or NP with little or no experience is going to have as much luck selling that skillset as a street vendor selling "September 11th - We will not forget" stickers. There was a heavy demand for them 6 months ago, but there's hardly any demand for them now. If you don't think that analogy applies to IT, then there are some COBOL programmers I'd like to introduce you to. Face it, there is little if any demand forpeople with just a CCNA, or even an NP without much work experience. I feel bad for you, I really do. So adapt; look to see what there is a demand for, and more importantly what there will be a demand for, and work towards fitting that mold. Sorry if I sound bitter, but here's my perspective - every year my school kicks out at least a dozen CCNA's, and that's considered low. Original Message- From: Lomker, Michael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wed 4/3/2002 2:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Subject: RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328] > How do I get a job that works with Cisco products, > without alot of experience or a CCIE? No kidding and good luck. Even when the economy was good I couldn't find a job. If you have a BSEE your odds are a lot better, but my business degree didn't get me anywhere. My current position is 75% NT and 25% Cisco. You might have to find a job like mine at a company that will give you some exposure to the Cisco equipment. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=40401&t=40328 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328]
To be honest, this was a problem even when the tech market was hot. Someone would graduate from a "CCNA bootcamp" but the problem was getting into the job. The trick is you have to know someone. Or place some bids on contracts for like 15$ an hour. Now the economy is not so hot, so employers are big on filtering, like using MCSE 2k as a gauge or other certs and degrees. They basicly are hiring the cream of the crop now. Another trick is get in a large company with a lower responsibility, like "Help Desk" or "PC Support" "PC Janitor". Companies always promote people within first, and they should have a database of jobs for you. Beside your working there, so you know the setup. Then get familiar with the network guys, buy them lunch :) Or just ask questions about the network etc. When I fail to find something, I just try twice as hard next time. There is no free lunch though, so you gotta work your way up the ladder. But don't give up. >>> "Lomker, Michael" 04/03/02 02:49PM >>> > How do I get a job that works with Cisco products, > without alot of experience or a CCIE? Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=40394&t=40328 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328]
I don't mean to offend anyone, but the job market doesn't owe anyone a job, and I include myself with that statement. Right now a CCNA or NP with little or no experience is going to have as much luck selling that skillset as a street vendor selling "September 11th - We will not forget" stickers. There was a heavy demand for them 6 months ago, but there's hardly any demand for them now. If you don't think that analogy applies to IT, then there are some COBOL programmers I'd like to introduce you to. Face it, there is little if any demand forpeople with just a CCNA, or even an NP without much work experience. I feel bad for you, I really do. So adapt; look to see what there is a demand for, and more importantly what there will be a demand for, and work towards fitting that mold. Sorry if I sound bitter, but here's my perspective - every year my school kicks out at least a dozen CCNA's, and that's considered low. Original Message- From: Lomker, Michael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wed 4/3/2002 2:49 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Subject: RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328] > How do I get a job that works with Cisco products, > without alot of experience or a CCIE? No kidding and good luck. Even when the economy was good I couldn't find a job. If you have a BSEE your odds are a lot better, but my business degree didn't get me anywhere. My current position is 75% NT and 25% Cisco. You might have to find a job like mine at a company that will give you some exposure to the Cisco equipment. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=40390&t=40328 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328]
Yous just answered your own question (the tech economy is bad-- very bad), and many people face or have faced the same "chicken and egg" problem. I have often wondered the same thing, about there being almost no ads for junior network engineers, and very few for midl-levels, even. I can speculate about the possible answers, but I not the old pro, so I could wrong. I am convinced that almost no one advertises for junior network engineer positions. They advertise for seniors and then hire the juniors from some of the folks who applied for the senior positions with too little experience. Perhaps they go to some local provider of contract labor (like Teksystems in our area), and hire contract folks who may not even accrue vaction time until they are hired permanently. I would not be surprised if a few juniors are folks that the seniors recruit from their acquaintances. I wonder if companies don't want the public to get the idea that they employ anything but seasoned professionals with 5+ years experience working for them. ""x"" wrote in message [EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]... > I live in the US. I have been casually looking for a > new job while I have been working on my CCDP and > CSS-1. I already have the CCNP, CCDA, MCSE, CNE, Unix > experience, a little router experience, VPN > conncentrator 3005, hands on switch and PIX > experience. I have put all this on my resume. Am I > missing some certification or training? > > It seems like all the Cisco related jobs require 5+ > years of hands on experience or a CCIE. This creates > a chicken and the egg problem for me. I want to get > more hands on experience than my current job offers to > prepare for the CCIE, but in order to get the > experience you need to be a CCIE. I realize the > economy isn't very good right now, but where are the > junior level Cisco positions? How did the current > CCIEs become CCIEs? > > How do I get a job that works with Cisco products, > without alot of experience or a CCIE? > > Just Frustrated... > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Tax Center - online filing with TurboTax > http://taxes.yahoo.com/ Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=40389&t=40328 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328]
the only way to get a good job and keep it is to work your way upin ANY
industry... experience is the key. The job we are hiring for now does not
require any degree or cert but it is not an entry level position. knowledge
is key! and don't limit yourself to cisco just because it's the buzz
Honestly, consulting is where the $$$ in and if you only work with cisco,
you short change yourself... Find a small to medium size company with some
nt servers, and some novell servers and a hodge podge of core equipment. Get
yourself and mcse (it's one of the fastest/easiest wambam thank you mam
certs) Learn subnetting and get your ccna. Troubleshoot basic ipx and ip
issues for a year or so and learn the equipment as you go. My advice is to
NOT get tunnel vision and think Cisco has all the answers... They are
certainly not the best of breed in too many products they offer. They are
usually however the best overall solution in a single vendor environment.
(actualy, them, and 3com I think are the only single vendor solutions that
can tie in voip/wireless/core/edge/wan/etc...) And if you have a choice
between 3com and cisco, thinkback 2 years when 3com dropped their core line!
heh
anyway... 'nuff rant peace
-Patrick
>>> "Lomker, Michael" 04/03/02 02:49PM >>>
> How do I get a job that works with Cisco products,
> without alot of experience or a CCIE?
No kidding and good luck. Even when the economy was good I couldn't find a
job. If you have a BSEE your odds are a lot better, but my business degree
didn't get me anywhere.
My current position is 75% NT and 25% Cisco. You might have to find a job
like mine at a company that will give you some exposure to the Cisco
equipment.
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RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328]
Michael's position is what the usual route of getting into the network business is about. The usual way is a help desk support, sys admin and then a network position. In my last position we hired people from the outside to do desktop support or network admins, then moved them the entry level network positions when the time came. Its the same for the most part in the internal lan/wan support inside cisco. The last 5 engineers here were moved over from internal positions. Larry Letterman Cisco Systems [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Lomker, Michael Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2002 11:50 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328] > How do I get a job that works with Cisco products, > without alot of experience or a CCIE? No kidding and good luck. Even when the economy was good I couldn't find a job. If you have a BSEE your odds are a lot better, but my business degree didn't get me anywhere. My current position is 75% NT and 25% Cisco. You might have to find a job like mine at a company that will give you some exposure to the Cisco equipment. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=40379&t=40328 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Are all the Cisco jobs for CCIEs? [7:40328]
> How do I get a job that works with Cisco products, > without alot of experience or a CCIE? No kidding and good luck. Even when the economy was good I couldn't find a job. If you have a BSEE your odds are a lot better, but my business degree didn't get me anywhere. My current position is 75% NT and 25% Cisco. You might have to find a job like mine at a company that will give you some exposure to the Cisco equipment. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7&i=40363&t=40328 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
