RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990]
I'm going to answer my own message. I was afraid I shot Ejay down too quickly. ;-] One remaining question is whether receiving a broadcast in an unsupported frame format causes a CPU interrupt. I said it would because I know that was the case with some implementations I worked on, but that was a long time ago. The real answer is that it depends on the Ethernet chip set, the driver software, and the operating system. The driver tells the Ethernet chip set which frame formats (and which multicasts) to listen to. A smart chip set would not pass anything else up. But, my experience has been that chip sets aren't smart. They pass unsupported frame types and some chip sets even pass multicasts for which the host is not registered. The definite answer is that the broadcast would disturb the station (counting the NIC as part of the station). To avoid that, you would have to move the station to a different physical broadcast domain (other side of a router) or different virtual broadcast domain (VLAN). Priscilla At 05:58 PM 7/12/01, Priscilla Oppenheimer wrote: At 04:29 PM 7/12/01, Hire, Ejay wrote: Perhaps I was unclear by my meaning. A station running Ethernet II that receives a ethernet_Snap frame discards it. It is unintelligible. The broadcast generates an interrupt though. Broadcast domains are not relevant to the question. Get them out of your head. ;-) The only things that can stop broadcasts are routers and VLANs. It has nothing to do with frame types. This is was what I meant by being in separate broadcast domains. A router or server advertising services to more than one frame type has to generate a separate advertisement broadcast for every frame type, thusly It is reasonable to say that each frame type creates a separate broadcast domain. (Same wire, separate domains.) That's not what is normally meant by a broadcast domain. Any station on the same switched or repeated network hears each of the broadcasts. If the device were on the other side of a router or in a different VLAN, it wouldn't hear them. The device would be in a different broadcast domain. The question is rather blurry though. If it truly is a separate broadcast domains, then the NIC should discard the frame without generating an interrupt. If it passes it to the o/s to discard, then I'm not sure what it is?! IMHO, fwiw -Ejay -Original Message- From: Priscilla Oppenheimer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 12:56 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990] Yes, each frame type is associated with a different network number. They are not different representations of the same network number. They are different networks. Broadcast domains have nothing to do with it. If all devices in these four networks are connected via hubs or switches, they see each other's broadcasts. They process the broadcasts at the data-link-layer and only process them further if they are running the same Ethernet frame type. If these are really internal network numbers, then the question is moot. Internal network numbers don't need a frame type!? Priscilla At 10:46 AM 7/12/01, Hire, Ejay wrote: Each different frame type acts as a separate broadcast domain, thus they have different network numbers. -Original Message- From: Elmer Deloso [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 8:41 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990] Thanks for all the responses. This is the only IPX speaking box on the wire and the first NW5.1 server to be brought up. I understand that it supports and automatically loads all IPX frame types by default if IPX is chosen along with the default and preferred IP protocol. From the replies it seems that each frame type would belong to a DIFFERENT IPX network? Or is it just DIFFERENT WAYS of writing out IPX network addresses depending on the frame type used? Again, thanks for the enlightenment. Elmer -Original Message- From: Priscilla Oppenheimer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 4:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990] Interesting. Why would it generate network numbers, though? Shouldn't network numbers be manually configured? Priscilla At 04:11 PM 7/11/01, Patricia Leeb-Hart wrote: I finally feel qualified to comment on a question on this list (having worked with NetWare for the past 6 years) The addresses you're seeing are generated automatically. What's happening here is that the new server has every single Ethernet frame type loaded, and as a result is using different IPX network number for every frame type. New 3.x and 4.x servers will do this if you perform an install using all the defaults. You need to run INSTALL (or NWCONFIG if 5.x), edit the AUTOEXEC.NCF and remove all BIND statements
RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990]
I have always thought that NetWare only auto-generated its internal network number (based on date and time of installation, which semi-gurantees uniqueness of the address), but the external network numbers had to be entered manually for each frame type. I may be wrong, but I don't think it auto-detects existing network numbers on the line. CM -Original Message- From: Priscilla Oppenheimer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 12 July 2001 03:18 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990] Cool. I know about the different frame formats and running multiple ones which means you'll have multiple network numbers. I didn't know NetWare would automatically assign network numbers. What does it do if there are other servers and/or routers sharing the segment and they have already assigned the network number(s)? Is it smart enough to pick up on this? Thanks Priscilla At 08:08 PM 7/11/01, Patricia Leeb-Hart wrote: While it's certainly preferable to assign network numbers manually, NetWare will assign a random unique 8-digit hex IPX network number, depending on the installation process you choose. The express installation is really only useful for one-server environments and is an option I never used. Now, as to why it would assign multiple network numbers: normally only one frame type would be loaded (default is 802.3 with 3.2 and 4.x). However, it gives you the option to load them all, and often inexperienced admins will do so. So, if you loaded all the frame types and allowed NetWare to generate the network numbers, NetWare assumes that you'd do this in order to run multiple IPX networks. It's analogous to creating secondary addresses or sub-interfaces on a router, each with its unique network number and/or encapsulation. (i'd really like to see the AUTOEXEC.NCF for this particular server ) This isn't as much of an issue with 5.x, as the default protocol is IP. However, if you choose to install IPX compatibility, it will still offer you the choice of randomly generating the IPX network number. It's a NetWare thang. Priscilla Oppenheimer 07/11/01 01:28PM Interesting. Why would it generate network numbers, though? Shouldn't network numbers be manually configured? Priscilla At 04:11 PM 7/11/01, Patricia Leeb-Hart wrote: I finally feel qualified to comment on a question on this list (having worked with NetWare for the past 6 years) The addresses you're seeing are generated automatically. What's happening here is that the new server has every single Ethernet frame type loaded, and as a result is using different IPX network number for every frame type. New 3.x and 4.x servers will do this if you perform an install using all the defaults. You need to run INSTALL (or NWCONFIG if 5.x), edit the AUTOEXEC.NCF and remove all BIND statements referencing frame types you don't want to use. Ethernet_II is preferred. NetWare 5.x is more restrained and tries to use IP only. Ayers, Michael 07/11/01 12:12PM Those were either auto generated, or picked up from reading frames on the wire. -Original Message- From: Elmer Deloso [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 11:31 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:IPX Network addresses [7:11990] hi, group. I just noticed that after installing NetWare server, it gave me this info regarding types of IPX frames: Frame type Network address Ethernet_802.2 3D410DCD Ethernet_802.3 1E0F4F9E Ethernet_SNAP FF994BB0 Ethernet_II D393B805 For the IPX gurus in the group, can someone tell me if there is some type of logic as to how the network address is translated from the type of frame used? Just to answer my curiosity. Thank you. Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=12092t=11990 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990]
Thanks for all the responses. This is the only IPX speaking box on the wire and the first NW5.1 server to be brought up. I understand that it supports and automatically loads all IPX frame types by default if IPX is chosen along with the default and preferred IP protocol. From the replies it seems that each frame type would belong to a DIFFERENT IPX network? Or is it just DIFFERENT WAYS of writing out IPX network addresses depending on the frame type used? Again, thanks for the enlightenment. Elmer -Original Message- From: Priscilla Oppenheimer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 4:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990] Interesting. Why would it generate network numbers, though? Shouldn't network numbers be manually configured? Priscilla At 04:11 PM 7/11/01, Patricia Leeb-Hart wrote: I finally feel qualified to comment on a question on this list (having worked with NetWare for the past 6 years) The addresses you're seeing are generated automatically. What's happening here is that the new server has every single Ethernet frame type loaded, and as a result is using different IPX network number for every frame type. New 3.x and 4.x servers will do this if you perform an install using all the defaults. You need to run INSTALL (or NWCONFIG if 5.x), edit the AUTOEXEC.NCF and remove all BIND statements referencing frame types you don't want to use. Ethernet_II is preferred. NetWare 5.x is more restrained and tries to use IP only. Ayers, Michael 07/11/01 12:12PM Those were either auto generated, or picked up from reading frames on the wire. -Original Message- From: Elmer Deloso [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 11:31 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:IPX Network addresses [7:11990] hi, group. I just noticed that after installing NetWare server, it gave me this info regarding types of IPX frames: Frame type Network address Ethernet_802.2 3D410DCD Ethernet_802.3 1E0F4F9E Ethernet_SNAP FF994BB0 Ethernet_II D393B805 For the IPX gurus in the group, can someone tell me if there is some type of logic as to how the network address is translated from the type of frame used? Just to answer my curiosity. Thank you. Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=12112t=11990 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990]
Each different frame type acts as a separate broadcast domain, thus they have different network numbers. -Original Message- From: Elmer Deloso [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 8:41 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990] Thanks for all the responses. This is the only IPX speaking box on the wire and the first NW5.1 server to be brought up. I understand that it supports and automatically loads all IPX frame types by default if IPX is chosen along with the default and preferred IP protocol. From the replies it seems that each frame type would belong to a DIFFERENT IPX network? Or is it just DIFFERENT WAYS of writing out IPX network addresses depending on the frame type used? Again, thanks for the enlightenment. Elmer -Original Message- From: Priscilla Oppenheimer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 4:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990] Interesting. Why would it generate network numbers, though? Shouldn't network numbers be manually configured? Priscilla At 04:11 PM 7/11/01, Patricia Leeb-Hart wrote: I finally feel qualified to comment on a question on this list (having worked with NetWare for the past 6 years) The addresses you're seeing are generated automatically. What's happening here is that the new server has every single Ethernet frame type loaded, and as a result is using different IPX network number for every frame type. New 3.x and 4.x servers will do this if you perform an install using all the defaults. You need to run INSTALL (or NWCONFIG if 5.x), edit the AUTOEXEC.NCF and remove all BIND statements referencing frame types you don't want to use. Ethernet_II is preferred. NetWare 5.x is more restrained and tries to use IP only. Ayers, Michael 07/11/01 12:12PM Those were either auto generated, or picked up from reading frames on the wire. -Original Message- From: Elmer Deloso [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 11:31 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:IPX Network addresses [7:11990] hi, group. I just noticed that after installing NetWare server, it gave me this info regarding types of IPX frames: Frame type Network address Ethernet_802.2 3D410DCD Ethernet_802.3 1E0F4F9E Ethernet_SNAP FF994BB0 Ethernet_II D393B805 For the IPX gurus in the group, can someone tell me if there is some type of logic as to how the network address is translated from the type of frame used? Just to answer my curiosity. Thank you. Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=12132t=11990 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990]
Elmer, Novell just randomly picks numbers, probably a function of the hardware's SN, and maybe Date Time. Point is, I would prefer to use a coherent scheme for net ID's, and would be removing any Frame types I'm not using. If you ever add another Novell server, you MUST make sure that the new server is set with these hardware ID's. The best way to understand this is to read the Cisco material for CCNA on IPX sub interfaces. It explains that each frame type must be a separate network, and if you have older systems running Novell_ether(802.3...No LLC) and newer ones running SAP (802.3+802.2LLC) on the same segment, you can have the router route between sub-interfaces by encapsulating 2 sub-ifs, one with novell_ether, and the other with sap. You do have to specify the network ID's per sub-if. Thank You, Michael Ayers Network Engineer OneNeck IT Services (480) 539-2203 (800) 272-3077 -Original Message- From: Elmer Deloso [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 5:41 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990] Thanks for all the responses. This is the only IPX speaking box on the wire and the first NW5.1 server to be brought up. I understand that it supports and automatically loads all IPX frame types by default if IPX is chosen along with the default and preferred IP protocol. From the replies it seems that each frame type would belong to a DIFFERENT IPX network? Or is it just DIFFERENT WAYS of writing out IPX network addresses depending on the frame type used? Again, thanks for the enlightenment. Elmer -Original Message- From: Priscilla Oppenheimer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 4:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990] Interesting. Why would it generate network numbers, though? Shouldn't network numbers be manually configured? Priscilla At 04:11 PM 7/11/01, Patricia Leeb-Hart wrote: I finally feel qualified to comment on a question on this list (having worked with NetWare for the past 6 years) The addresses you're seeing are generated automatically. What's happening here is that the new server has every single Ethernet frame type loaded, and as a result is using different IPX network number for every frame type. New 3.x and 4.x servers will do this if you perform an install using all the defaults. You need to run INSTALL (or NWCONFIG if 5.x), edit the AUTOEXEC.NCF and remove all BIND statements referencing frame types you don't want to use. Ethernet_II is preferred. NetWare 5.x is more restrained and tries to use IP only. Ayers, Michael 07/11/01 12:12PM Those were either auto generated, or picked up from reading frames on the wire. -Original Message- From: Elmer Deloso [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 11:31 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:IPX Network addresses [7:11990] hi, group. I just noticed that after installing NetWare server, it gave me this info regarding types of IPX frames: Frame type Network address Ethernet_802.2 3D410DCD Ethernet_802.3 1E0F4F9E Ethernet_SNAP FF994BB0 Ethernet_II D393B805 For the IPX gurus in the group, can someone tell me if there is some type of logic as to how the network address is translated from the type of frame used? Just to answer my curiosity. Thank you. Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message or attachments hereto. Please advise immediately if you or your employer do not consent to Internet email for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of this company shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=12153t=11990 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990]
Yes, each frame type is associated with a different network number. They are not different representations of the same network number. They are different networks. Broadcast domains have nothing to do with it. If all devices in these four networks are connected via hubs or switches, they see each other's broadcasts. They process the broadcasts at the data-link-layer and only process them further if they are running the same Ethernet frame type. If these are really internal network numbers, then the question is moot. Internal network numbers don't need a frame type!? Priscilla At 10:46 AM 7/12/01, Hire, Ejay wrote: Each different frame type acts as a separate broadcast domain, thus they have different network numbers. -Original Message- From: Elmer Deloso [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 8:41 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990] Thanks for all the responses. This is the only IPX speaking box on the wire and the first NW5.1 server to be brought up. I understand that it supports and automatically loads all IPX frame types by default if IPX is chosen along with the default and preferred IP protocol. From the replies it seems that each frame type would belong to a DIFFERENT IPX network? Or is it just DIFFERENT WAYS of writing out IPX network addresses depending on the frame type used? Again, thanks for the enlightenment. Elmer -Original Message- From: Priscilla Oppenheimer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 4:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990] Interesting. Why would it generate network numbers, though? Shouldn't network numbers be manually configured? Priscilla At 04:11 PM 7/11/01, Patricia Leeb-Hart wrote: I finally feel qualified to comment on a question on this list (having worked with NetWare for the past 6 years) The addresses you're seeing are generated automatically. What's happening here is that the new server has every single Ethernet frame type loaded, and as a result is using different IPX network number for every frame type. New 3.x and 4.x servers will do this if you perform an install using all the defaults. You need to run INSTALL (or NWCONFIG if 5.x), edit the AUTOEXEC.NCF and remove all BIND statements referencing frame types you don't want to use. Ethernet_II is preferred. NetWare 5.x is more restrained and tries to use IP only. Ayers, Michael 07/11/01 12:12PM Those were either auto generated, or picked up from reading frames on the wire. -Original Message- From: Elmer Deloso [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 11:31 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:IPX Network addresses [7:11990] hi, group. I just noticed that after installing NetWare server, it gave me this info regarding types of IPX frames: Frame type Network address Ethernet_802.2 3D410DCD Ethernet_802.3 1E0F4F9E Ethernet_SNAP FF994BB0 Ethernet_II D393B805 For the IPX gurus in the group, can someone tell me if there is some type of logic as to how the network address is translated from the type of frame used? Just to answer my curiosity. Thank you. Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=12165t=11990 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990]
Thanks all. Does makes sense now. I still like IPX better than IP for small LANs. At least no ICMP attacks / DDOS to worry about. Elmer -Original Message- From: Ayers, Michael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 12:21 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990] Elmer, Novell just randomly picks numbers, probably a function of the hardware's SN, and maybe Date Time. Point is, I would prefer to use a coherent scheme for net ID's, and would be removing any Frame types I'm not using. If you ever add another Novell server, you MUST make sure that the new server is set with these hardware ID's. The best way to understand this is to read the Cisco material for CCNA on IPX sub interfaces. It explains that each frame type must be a separate network, and if you have older systems running Novell_ether(802.3...No LLC) and newer ones running SAP (802.3+802.2LLC) on the same segment, you can have the router route between sub-interfaces by encapsulating 2 sub-ifs, one with novell_ether, and the other with sap. You do have to specify the network ID's per sub-if. Thank You, Michael Ayers Network Engineer OneNeck IT Services (480) 539-2203 (800) 272-3077 -Original Message- From: Elmer Deloso [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 5:41 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990] Thanks for all the responses. This is the only IPX speaking box on the wire and the first NW5.1 server to be brought up. I understand that it supports and automatically loads all IPX frame types by default if IPX is chosen along with the default and preferred IP protocol. From the replies it seems that each frame type would belong to a DIFFERENT IPX network? Or is it just DIFFERENT WAYS of writing out IPX network addresses depending on the frame type used? Again, thanks for the enlightenment. Elmer -Original Message- From: Priscilla Oppenheimer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 4:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990] Interesting. Why would it generate network numbers, though? Shouldn't network numbers be manually configured? Priscilla At 04:11 PM 7/11/01, Patricia Leeb-Hart wrote: I finally feel qualified to comment on a question on this list (having worked with NetWare for the past 6 years) The addresses you're seeing are generated automatically. What's happening here is that the new server has every single Ethernet frame type loaded, and as a result is using different IPX network number for every frame type. New 3.x and 4.x servers will do this if you perform an install using all the defaults. You need to run INSTALL (or NWCONFIG if 5.x), edit the AUTOEXEC.NCF and remove all BIND statements referencing frame types you don't want to use. Ethernet_II is preferred. NetWare 5.x is more restrained and tries to use IP only. Ayers, Michael 07/11/01 12:12PM Those were either auto generated, or picked up from reading frames on the wire. -Original Message- From: Elmer Deloso [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 11:31 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:IPX Network addresses [7:11990] hi, group. I just noticed that after installing NetWare server, it gave me this info regarding types of IPX frames: Frame type Network address Ethernet_802.2 3D410DCD Ethernet_802.3 1E0F4F9E Ethernet_SNAP FF994BB0 Ethernet_II D393B805 For the IPX gurus in the group, can someone tell me if there is some type of logic as to how the network address is translated from the type of frame used? Just to answer my curiosity. Thank you. Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message or attachments hereto. Please advise immediately if you or your employer do not consent to Internet email for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of this company shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=12166t=11990 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990]
Priscilla, As usual you have such eloquent ways in explaining concepts. But as you mentioned earlier that the IPX net addresses are manually configured (preferred method?), you're implying that i can change these different addresses to be the same IPX network address but with different encapsulations, corrext? I think i'll put this to the test as soon as i have time to get Sniffer running again. Thanks for your insight. Elmer -Original Message- From: Priscilla Oppenheimer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 12:56 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990] Yes, each frame type is associated with a different network number. They are not different representations of the same network number. They are different networks. Broadcast domains have nothing to do with it. If all devices in these four networks are connected via hubs or switches, they see each other's broadcasts. They process the broadcasts at the data-link-layer and only process them further if they are running the same Ethernet frame type. If these are really internal network numbers, then the question is moot. Internal network numbers don't need a frame type!? Priscilla At 10:46 AM 7/12/01, Hire, Ejay wrote: Each different frame type acts as a separate broadcast domain, thus they have different network numbers. -Original Message- From: Elmer Deloso [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 8:41 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990] Thanks for all the responses. This is the only IPX speaking box on the wire and the first NW5.1 server to be brought up. I understand that it supports and automatically loads all IPX frame types by default if IPX is chosen along with the default and preferred IP protocol. From the replies it seems that each frame type would belong to a DIFFERENT IPX network? Or is it just DIFFERENT WAYS of writing out IPX network addresses depending on the frame type used? Again, thanks for the enlightenment. Elmer -Original Message- From: Priscilla Oppenheimer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 4:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990] Interesting. Why would it generate network numbers, though? Shouldn't network numbers be manually configured? Priscilla At 04:11 PM 7/11/01, Patricia Leeb-Hart wrote: I finally feel qualified to comment on a question on this list (having worked with NetWare for the past 6 years) The addresses you're seeing are generated automatically. What's happening here is that the new server has every single Ethernet frame type loaded, and as a result is using different IPX network number for every frame type. New 3.x and 4.x servers will do this if you perform an install using all the defaults. You need to run INSTALL (or NWCONFIG if 5.x), edit the AUTOEXEC.NCF and remove all BIND statements referencing frame types you don't want to use. Ethernet_II is preferred. NetWare 5.x is more restrained and tries to use IP only. Ayers, Michael 07/11/01 12:12PM Those were either auto generated, or picked up from reading frames on the wire. -Original Message- From: Elmer Deloso [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 11:31 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:IPX Network addresses [7:11990] hi, group. I just noticed that after installing NetWare server, it gave me this info regarding types of IPX frames: Frame type Network address Ethernet_802.2 3D410DCD Ethernet_802.3 1E0F4F9E Ethernet_SNAP FF994BB0 Ethernet_II D393B805 For the IPX gurus in the group, can someone tell me if there is some type of logic as to how the network address is translated from the type of frame used? Just to answer my curiosity. Thank you. Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=12183t=11990 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990]
Perhaps I was unclear by my meaning. A station running Ethernet II that receives a ethernet_Snap frame discards it. It is unintelligible. This is was what I meant by being in separate broadcast domains. A router or server advertising services to more than one frame type has to generate a separate advertisement broadcast for every frame type, thusly It is reasonable to say that each frame type creates a separate broadcast domain. (Same wire, separate domains.) The question is rather blurry though. If it truly is a separate broadcast domains, then the NIC should discard the frame without generating an interrupt. If it passes it to the o/s to discard, then I'm not sure what it is?! IMHO, fwiw -Ejay -Original Message- From: Priscilla Oppenheimer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 12:56 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990] Yes, each frame type is associated with a different network number. They are not different representations of the same network number. They are different networks. Broadcast domains have nothing to do with it. If all devices in these four networks are connected via hubs or switches, they see each other's broadcasts. They process the broadcasts at the data-link-layer and only process them further if they are running the same Ethernet frame type. If these are really internal network numbers, then the question is moot. Internal network numbers don't need a frame type!? Priscilla At 10:46 AM 7/12/01, Hire, Ejay wrote: Each different frame type acts as a separate broadcast domain, thus they have different network numbers. -Original Message- From: Elmer Deloso [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 8:41 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990] Thanks for all the responses. This is the only IPX speaking box on the wire and the first NW5.1 server to be brought up. I understand that it supports and automatically loads all IPX frame types by default if IPX is chosen along with the default and preferred IP protocol. From the replies it seems that each frame type would belong to a DIFFERENT IPX network? Or is it just DIFFERENT WAYS of writing out IPX network addresses depending on the frame type used? Again, thanks for the enlightenment. Elmer -Original Message- From: Priscilla Oppenheimer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 4:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990] Interesting. Why would it generate network numbers, though? Shouldn't network numbers be manually configured? Priscilla At 04:11 PM 7/11/01, Patricia Leeb-Hart wrote: I finally feel qualified to comment on a question on this list (having worked with NetWare for the past 6 years) The addresses you're seeing are generated automatically. What's happening here is that the new server has every single Ethernet frame type loaded, and as a result is using different IPX network number for every frame type. New 3.x and 4.x servers will do this if you perform an install using all the defaults. You need to run INSTALL (or NWCONFIG if 5.x), edit the AUTOEXEC.NCF and remove all BIND statements referencing frame types you don't want to use. Ethernet_II is preferred. NetWare 5.x is more restrained and tries to use IP only. Ayers, Michael 07/11/01 12:12PM Those were either auto generated, or picked up from reading frames on the wire. -Original Message- From: Elmer Deloso [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 11:31 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:IPX Network addresses [7:11990] hi, group. I just noticed that after installing NetWare server, it gave me this info regarding types of IPX frames: Frame type Network address Ethernet_802.2 3D410DCD Ethernet_802.3 1E0F4F9E Ethernet_SNAP FF994BB0 Ethernet_II D393B805 For the IPX gurus in the group, can someone tell me if there is some type of logic as to how the network address is translated from the type of frame used? Just to answer my curiosity. Thank you. Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=12196t=11990 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990]
At 02:51 PM 7/12/01, Elmer Deloso wrote: Priscilla, As usual you have such eloquent ways in explaining concepts. But as you mentioned earlier that the IPX net addresses are manually configured (preferred method?), you're implying that i can change these different addresses to be the same IPX network address but with different encapsulations, corrext? No. They are different networks. They must have different IPX network addresses. I think i'll put this to the test as soon as i have time to get Sniffer running again. Thanks for your insight. Elmer -Original Message- From: Priscilla Oppenheimer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 12:56 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990] Yes, each frame type is associated with a different network number. They are not different representations of the same network number. They are different networks. Broadcast domains have nothing to do with it. If all devices in these four networks are connected via hubs or switches, they see each other's broadcasts. They process the broadcasts at the data-link-layer and only process them further if they are running the same Ethernet frame type. If these are really internal network numbers, then the question is moot. Internal network numbers don't need a frame type!? Priscilla At 10:46 AM 7/12/01, Hire, Ejay wrote: Each different frame type acts as a separate broadcast domain, thus they have different network numbers. -Original Message- From: Elmer Deloso [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 8:41 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990] Thanks for all the responses. This is the only IPX speaking box on the wire and the first NW5.1 server to be brought up. I understand that it supports and automatically loads all IPX frame types by default if IPX is chosen along with the default and preferred IP protocol. From the replies it seems that each frame type would belong to a DIFFERENT IPX network? Or is it just DIFFERENT WAYS of writing out IPX network addresses depending on the frame type used? Again, thanks for the enlightenment. Elmer -Original Message- From: Priscilla Oppenheimer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 4:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990] Interesting. Why would it generate network numbers, though? Shouldn't network numbers be manually configured? Priscilla At 04:11 PM 7/11/01, Patricia Leeb-Hart wrote: I finally feel qualified to comment on a question on this list (having worked with NetWare for the past 6 years) The addresses you're seeing are generated automatically. What's happening here is that the new server has every single Ethernet frame type loaded, and as a result is using different IPX network number for every frame type. New 3.x and 4.x servers will do this if you perform an install using all the defaults. You need to run INSTALL (or NWCONFIG if 5.x), edit the AUTOEXEC.NCF and remove all BIND statements referencing frame types you don't want to use. Ethernet_II is preferred. NetWare 5.x is more restrained and tries to use IP only. Ayers, Michael 07/11/01 12:12PM Those were either auto generated, or picked up from reading frames on the wire. -Original Message- From: Elmer Deloso [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 11:31 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:IPX Network addresses [7:11990] hi, group. I just noticed that after installing NetWare server, it gave me this info regarding types of IPX frames: Frame type Network address Ethernet_802.2 3D410DCD Ethernet_802.3 1E0F4F9E Ethernet_SNAP FF994BB0 Ethernet_II D393B805 For the IPX gurus in the group, can someone tell me if there is some type of logic as to how the network address is translated from the type of frame used? Just to answer my curiosity. Thank you. Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=12204t=11990 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990]
At 04:29 PM 7/12/01, Hire, Ejay wrote: Perhaps I was unclear by my meaning. A station running Ethernet II that receives a ethernet_Snap frame discards it. It is unintelligible. The broadcast generates an interrupt though. Broadcast domains are not relevant to the question. Get them out of your head. ;-) The only things that can stop broadcasts are routers and VLANs. It has nothing to do with frame types. This is was what I meant by being in separate broadcast domains. A router or server advertising services to more than one frame type has to generate a separate advertisement broadcast for every frame type, thusly It is reasonable to say that each frame type creates a separate broadcast domain. (Same wire, separate domains.) That's not what is normally meant by a broadcast domain. Any station on the same switched or repeated network hears each of the broadcasts. If the device were on the other side of a router or in a different VLAN, it wouldn't hear them. The device would be in a different broadcast domain. The question is rather blurry though. If it truly is a separate broadcast domains, then the NIC should discard the frame without generating an interrupt. If it passes it to the o/s to discard, then I'm not sure what it is?! IMHO, fwiw -Ejay -Original Message- From: Priscilla Oppenheimer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 12:56 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990] Yes, each frame type is associated with a different network number. They are not different representations of the same network number. They are different networks. Broadcast domains have nothing to do with it. If all devices in these four networks are connected via hubs or switches, they see each other's broadcasts. They process the broadcasts at the data-link-layer and only process them further if they are running the same Ethernet frame type. If these are really internal network numbers, then the question is moot. Internal network numbers don't need a frame type!? Priscilla At 10:46 AM 7/12/01, Hire, Ejay wrote: Each different frame type acts as a separate broadcast domain, thus they have different network numbers. -Original Message- From: Elmer Deloso [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 8:41 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990] Thanks for all the responses. This is the only IPX speaking box on the wire and the first NW5.1 server to be brought up. I understand that it supports and automatically loads all IPX frame types by default if IPX is chosen along with the default and preferred IP protocol. From the replies it seems that each frame type would belong to a DIFFERENT IPX network? Or is it just DIFFERENT WAYS of writing out IPX network addresses depending on the frame type used? Again, thanks for the enlightenment. Elmer -Original Message- From: Priscilla Oppenheimer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 4:29 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990] Interesting. Why would it generate network numbers, though? Shouldn't network numbers be manually configured? Priscilla At 04:11 PM 7/11/01, Patricia Leeb-Hart wrote: I finally feel qualified to comment on a question on this list (having worked with NetWare for the past 6 years) The addresses you're seeing are generated automatically. What's happening here is that the new server has every single Ethernet frame type loaded, and as a result is using different IPX network number for every frame type. New 3.x and 4.x servers will do this if you perform an install using all the defaults. You need to run INSTALL (or NWCONFIG if 5.x), edit the AUTOEXEC.NCF and remove all BIND statements referencing frame types you don't want to use. Ethernet_II is preferred. NetWare 5.x is more restrained and tries to use IP only. Ayers, Michael 07/11/01 12:12PM Those were either auto generated, or picked up from reading frames on the wire. -Original Message- From: Elmer Deloso [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 11:31 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:IPX Network addresses [7:11990] hi, group. I just noticed that after installing NetWare server, it gave me this info regarding types of IPX frames: Frame type Network address Ethernet_802.2 3D410DCD Ethernet_802.3 1E0F4F9E Ethernet_SNAP FF994BB0 Ethernet_II D393B805 For the IPX gurus in the group, can someone tell me if there is some type of logic as to how the network address is translated from the type of frame used? Just to answer my curiosity. Thank you. Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com
RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990]
Those were either auto generated, or picked up from reading frames on the wire. -Original Message- From: Elmer Deloso [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 11:31 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:IPX Network addresses [7:11990] hi, group. I just noticed that after installing NetWare server, it gave me this info regarding types of IPX frames: Frame type Network address Ethernet_802.2 3D410DCD Ethernet_802.3 1E0F4F9E Ethernet_SNAP FF994BB0 Ethernet_II D393B805 For the IPX gurus in the group, can someone tell me if there is some type of logic as to how the network address is translated from the type of frame used? Just to answer my curiosity. Thank you. Elmer Privileged/Confidential Information may be contained in this message or attachments hereto. Please advise immediately if you or your employer do not consent to Internet email for messages of this kind. Opinions, conclusions and other information in this message that do not relate to the official business of this company shall be understood as neither given nor endorsed by it. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=12006t=11990 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990]
I finally feel qualified to comment on a question on this list (having worked with NetWare for the past 6 years) The addresses you're seeing are generated automatically. What's happening here is that the new server has every single Ethernet frame type loaded, and as a result is using different IPX network number for every frame type. New 3.x and 4.x servers will do this if you perform an install using all the defaults. You need to run INSTALL (or NWCONFIG if 5.x), edit the AUTOEXEC.NCF and remove all BIND statements referencing frame types you don't want to use. Ethernet_II is preferred. NetWare 5.x is more restrained and tries to use IP only. Ayers, Michael 07/11/01 12:12PM Those were either auto generated, or picked up from reading frames on the wire. -Original Message- From: Elmer Deloso [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 11:31 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:IPX Network addresses [7:11990] hi, group. I just noticed that after installing NetWare server, it gave me this info regarding types of IPX frames: Frame type Network address Ethernet_802.2 3D410DCD Ethernet_802.3 1E0F4F9E Ethernet_SNAP FF994BB0 Ethernet_II D393B805 For the IPX gurus in the group, can someone tell me if there is some type of logic as to how the network address is translated from the type of frame used? Just to answer my curiosity. Thank you. Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=12015t=11990 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990]
Interesting. Why would it generate network numbers, though? Shouldn't network numbers be manually configured? Priscilla At 04:11 PM 7/11/01, Patricia Leeb-Hart wrote: I finally feel qualified to comment on a question on this list (having worked with NetWare for the past 6 years) The addresses you're seeing are generated automatically. What's happening here is that the new server has every single Ethernet frame type loaded, and as a result is using different IPX network number for every frame type. New 3.x and 4.x servers will do this if you perform an install using all the defaults. You need to run INSTALL (or NWCONFIG if 5.x), edit the AUTOEXEC.NCF and remove all BIND statements referencing frame types you don't want to use. Ethernet_II is preferred. NetWare 5.x is more restrained and tries to use IP only. Ayers, Michael 07/11/01 12:12PM Those were either auto generated, or picked up from reading frames on the wire. -Original Message- From: Elmer Deloso [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 11:31 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:IPX Network addresses [7:11990] hi, group. I just noticed that after installing NetWare server, it gave me this info regarding types of IPX frames: Frame type Network address Ethernet_802.2 3D410DCD Ethernet_802.3 1E0F4F9E Ethernet_SNAP FF994BB0 Ethernet_II D393B805 For the IPX gurus in the group, can someone tell me if there is some type of logic as to how the network address is translated from the type of frame used? Just to answer my curiosity. Thank you. Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=12017t=11990 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: IPX Network addresses [7:11990]
While it's certainly preferable to assign network numbers manually, NetWare will assign a random unique 8-digit hex IPX network number, depending on the installation process you choose. The express installation is really only useful for one-server environments and is an option I never used. Now, as to why it would assign multiple network numbers: normally only one frame type would be loaded (default is 802.3 with 3.2 and 4.x). However, it gives you the option to load them all, and often inexperienced admins will do so. So, if you loaded all the frame types and allowed NetWare to generate the network numbers, NetWare assumes that you'd do this in order to run multiple IPX networks. It's analogous to creating secondary addresses or sub-interfaces on a router, each with its unique network number and/or encapsulation. (i'd really like to see the AUTOEXEC.NCF for this particular server ) This isn't as much of an issue with 5.x, as the default protocol is IP. However, if you choose to install IPX compatibility, it will still offer you the choice of randomly generating the IPX network number. It's a NetWare thang. Priscilla Oppenheimer 07/11/01 01:28PM Interesting. Why would it generate network numbers, though? Shouldn't network numbers be manually configured? Priscilla At 04:11 PM 7/11/01, Patricia Leeb-Hart wrote: I finally feel qualified to comment on a question on this list (having worked with NetWare for the past 6 years) The addresses you're seeing are generated automatically. What's happening here is that the new server has every single Ethernet frame type loaded, and as a result is using different IPX network number for every frame type. New 3.x and 4.x servers will do this if you perform an install using all the defaults. You need to run INSTALL (or NWCONFIG if 5.x), edit the AUTOEXEC.NCF and remove all BIND statements referencing frame types you don't want to use. Ethernet_II is preferred. NetWare 5.x is more restrained and tries to use IP only. Ayers, Michael 07/11/01 12:12PM Those were either auto generated, or picked up from reading frames on the wire. -Original Message- From: Elmer Deloso [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 11:31 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject:IPX Network addresses [7:11990] hi, group. I just noticed that after installing NetWare server, it gave me this info regarding types of IPX frames: Frame type Network address Ethernet_802.2 3D410DCD Ethernet_802.3 1E0F4F9E Ethernet_SNAP FF994BB0 Ethernet_II D393B805 For the IPX gurus in the group, can someone tell me if there is some type of logic as to how the network address is translated from the type of frame used? Just to answer my curiosity. Thank you. Priscilla Oppenheimer http://www.priscilla.com Message Posted at: http://www.groupstudy.com/form/read.php?f=7i=12042t=11990 -- FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
