RE: Very good web site for CCNA

[Systems Admin]

Title: RE: Very good web site for CCNA





Its a pure violation of copyright act Its an Osborne edition and a property of Global Knowledge Network Certification Press.

cheers!
Suresh
www.surehhomepage.com
A site about Cisco Certs.


--
From:   Neelanga Udash
Reply To:   Neelanga Udash
Sent:   Monday, 24 July, 2000 7:43 AM
To:     '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
Subject:    Very good web site for CCNA


Dear all,


Take a look at this site. There is a whole book of CCNA material written by
a CCIE,


http://www.rkingma.com/cisco/testhome.htm
<http://www.rkingma.com/cisco/testhome.htm> 






***
U.D. Neelanga Udash
Network Support Analyst


IT Division
The British Council
49 Alfred House Gardens
Colombo 00300
Sri Lanka


Tel:  +94 (0)1 581171 (ext.260)
Fax: +94 (0)1 587079
E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Web: http://www.britishcouncil.lk


***


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RE: Very good web site for CCNA

[Priscilla Oppenheimer]

I was really impressed when I first reviewed this online material. It's so 
much better than most of the crap that's out there. Then I realized it's 
the "CCNA Cisco Certified Network Associate Study Guide" by Syngress! How 
could someone publish this online?? It appears to be a flagrant example of 
theft.

Priscilla



>--  From:   Neelanga Udash  Reply To:   Neelanga 
>Udash  Sent:   Monday, 24 July, 2000 7:43 
>AM  To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'  Subject:Very good web site for 
>CCNA
>
>Dear all,
>
>Take a look at this site. There is a whole book of CCNA material written 
>by  a CCIE,
>
>http://www.rkingma.com/cisco/testhome.htm 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>***  U.D. Neelanga Udash  Network 
>Support Analyst
>
>IT Division  The British Council  49 Alfred House Gardens  Colombo 
>00300  Sri Lanka
>
>Tel:  +94 (0)1 581171 (ext.260)  Fax: +94 (0)1 587079  E-mail: 
>[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
>Web: http://www.britishcouncil.lk
>
>***
>
>___  UPDATED Posting Guidelines: 
>http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html 
>FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: 
>http://www.groupstudy.com  Report misconduct 
>and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]




Priscilla Oppenheimer
http://www.priscilla.com

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RE: Very good web site for CCNA

[Jean Stockton]

Not sure, but wouldn't it be considered obsolete by July 31 anyway.


mjs

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> Priscilla Oppenheimer
> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2000 3:40 PM
> To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; 'Neelanga Udash'
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: Very good web site for CCNA
>
>
> I was really impressed when I first reviewed this online
> material. It's so
> much better than most of the crap that's out there. Then I realized it's
> the "CCNA Cisco Certified Network Associate Study Guide" by Syngress! How
> could someone publish this online?? It appears to be a flagrant
> example of
> theft.
>
> Priscilla
>
>
>
> >--  From:   Neelanga Udash  Reply To:   Neelanga
> >Udash  Sent:   Monday, 24 July, 2000 7:43
> >AM  To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'  Subject:Very good
> web site for
> >CCNA
> >
> >Dear all,
> >
> >Take a look at this site. There is a whole book of CCNA material written
> >by  a CCIE,
> >
> ><http://www.rkingma.com/cisco/testhome.htm>http://www.rkingma.com
/cisco/testhome.htm
><http://www.rkingma.com/cisco/testhome.htm>
>
>
>
>
>
>***  U.D. Neelanga Udash  Network
>Support Analyst
>
>IT Division  The British Council  49 Alfred House Gardens  Colombo
>00300  Sri Lanka
>
>Tel:  +94 (0)1 581171 (ext.260)  Fax: +94 (0)1 587079  E-mail:
>[EMAIL PROTECTED]
><<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>mailto:neelanga.udash@britishcoun
cil.lk>
>Web: <http://www.britishcouncil.lk>http://www.britishcouncil.lk
>
>***
>
>___  UPDATED Posting Guidelines:
><http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html>http://www.groupstudy.com/list/g
uide.html
>FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
><http://www.groupstudy.com>http://www.groupstudy.com  Report misconduct
>and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]




Priscilla Oppenheimer
http://www.priscilla.com

___
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RE: Very good web site for CCNA

[Brian]

I am not for anyone commiting theft, so please don't get me wrong.  But
this brings up some interesting arguments.  Is someone putting a CD in a
publically accessable document root theft?  Or does it only become theft
when someone else out there on the Internet decides to download/view
it?  And then who is the theif, the person that owns and is exporting the
CD, or the person who does not own and is viewing?

In libraries most works are copywrited, yet they let people check and and
view the books without paying, how is this different?  I mean how are
libraries allowed to essentially buy books and then loan them to people
for freeonce again, don't take this the wrong way, I own all
my study materials and I find them a great reference, I like new shiny
books with hardcovers :)), but this is a modern day we live in and it
brings up new arguments for the digital millenium, and I don't know all
the answers.

Brian


On Mon, 24 Jul 2000, Priscilla Oppenheimer wrote:

> I was really impressed when I first reviewed this online material. It's so 
> much better than most of the crap that's out there. Then I realized it's 
> the "CCNA Cisco Certified Network Associate Study Guide" by Syngress! How 
> could someone publish this online?? It appears to be a flagrant example of 
> theft.
> 
> Priscilla
> 
> 
> 
> >--  From:   Neelanga Udash  Reply To:   Neelanga 
> >Udash  Sent:   Monday, 24 July, 2000 7:43 
> >AM  To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'  Subject:Very good web site for 
> >CCNA
> >
> >Dear all,
> >
> >Take a look at this site. There is a whole book of CCNA material written 
> >by  a CCIE,
> >
> 
>>http://www.rkingma.com/cisco/testhome.htm 
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >***  U.D. Neelanga Udash  Network 
> >Support Analyst
> >
> >IT Division  The British Council  49 Alfred House Gardens  Colombo 
> >00300  Sri Lanka
> >
> >Tel:  +94 (0)1 581171 (ext.260)  Fax: +94 (0)1 587079  E-mail: 
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> ><mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> >Web: http://www.britishcouncil.lk
> >
> >***
> >
> >___  UPDATED Posting Guidelines: 
> 
>>http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html 
> >FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: 
> >http://www.groupstudy.com  Report misconduct 
> >and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Priscilla Oppenheimer
> http://www.priscilla.com
> 
> ___
> UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html
> FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com
> Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 

-- 
-
Brian Feeny, CCNA   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   
318-222-2638 x 109  http://www.shreve.net/~signal  
Network Administrator   ShreveNet Inc. (ASN 11881)

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RE: Very good web site for CCNA

[Ole Drews Jensen]

That's kind of an interesting subject we have going on here.

I do not know the answer, but I do remember years ago when I lived in
Denmark and was a very often user of ProComm and Telix where I daily dialed
in to various BBS's around the country.

At first, it was not against the law the put any copyrighted software on the
BBS server, but it was against the law to download it. Later on it got
changed so it was against the law to have it on a server, and if you dialed
in, you were not allowed to upload any copyrighted software.

This brings me even further back to when the Danish telco owned the rights
to phones. Well, it was not illegal for stores to sell other brands, but it
was illegal for customers to buy them.

No matter what the deal is, the fact that we all should remember is that it
is illegal to use copyrighted software without a license. I started out as a
programmer (I'm still programming), and I know how it would suck if people
just copied my software after I had put many hours into it.

Just my $0.02

Ole


 Ole Drews Jensen
 Systems Network Manager
 CCNA, MCSE, MCP+I
 RWR Enterprises, Inc.
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]




-Original Message-
From: Brian [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2000 3:43 PM
To: Priscilla Oppenheimer
Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; 'Neelanga Udash'; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Very good web site for CCNA



I am not for anyone commiting theft, so please don't get me wrong.  But
this brings up some interesting arguments.  Is someone putting a CD in a
publically accessable document root theft?  Or does it only become theft
when someone else out there on the Internet decides to download/view
it?  And then who is the theif, the person that owns and is exporting the
CD, or the person who does not own and is viewing?

In libraries most works are copywrited, yet they let people check and and
view the books without paying, how is this different?  I mean how are
libraries allowed to essentially buy books and then loan them to people
for freeonce again, don't take this the wrong way, I own all
my study materials and I find them a great reference, I like new shiny
books with hardcovers :)), but this is a modern day we live in and it
brings up new arguments for the digital millenium, and I don't know all
the answers.

Brian


On Mon, 24 Jul 2000, Priscilla Oppenheimer wrote:

> I was really impressed when I first reviewed this online material. It's so

> much better than most of the crap that's out there. Then I realized it's 
> the "CCNA Cisco Certified Network Associate Study Guide" by Syngress! How 
> could someone publish this online?? It appears to be a flagrant example of

> theft.
> 
> Priscilla
> 
> 
> 
> >--  From:   Neelanga Udash  Reply To:   Neelanga 
> >Udash  Sent:   Monday, 24 July, 2000 7:43 
> >AM  To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'  Subject:Very good web site
for 
> >CCNA
> >
> >Dear all,
> >
> >Take a look at this site. There is a whole book of CCNA material written 
> >by  a CCIE,
> >
>
><http://www.rkingma.com/cisco/testhome.htm>http://www.rkingma.com/cisco/tes
thome.htm 
> ><http://www.rkingma.com/cisco/testhome.htm>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >***  U.D. Neelanga Udash  Network

> >Support Analyst
> >
> >IT Division  The British Council  49 Alfred House Gardens  Colombo 
> >00300  Sri Lanka
> >
> >Tel:  +94 (0)1 581171 (ext.260)  Fax: +94 (0)1 587079  E-mail: 
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>
><<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>mailto:neelanga.udash@britishcoun
cil.lk> 
> >Web: <http://www.britishcouncil.lk>http://www.britishcouncil.lk
> >
> >***
> >
> >___  UPDATED Posting Guidelines: 
>
><http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html>http://www.groupstudy.com/list/g
uide.html 
> >FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: 
> ><http://www.groupstudy.com>http://www.groupstudy.com  Report misconduct 
> >and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Priscilla Oppenheimer
> http://www.priscilla.com
> 
> ___
> UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html
> FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com
> Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 

-- 
-
Brian Feeny, CCNA   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   
318-222-2638 x 109  http://www.shreve.net/~signal  
Network Administrator   ShreveNet 

RE: Very good web site for CCNA

[Priscilla Oppenheimer]

  04:20 PM 7/24/00, you wrote:
>Not sure, but wouldn't it be considered obsolete by July 31 anyway.


The material in the book is not obsolete. It's all still relevant for 
someone who supports a typical Cisco internetwork.

Even if were obsolete, it's not legal to publish it without the publisher's 
permission.

Publishing houses and authors try to scrape out a living writing books. We 
aren't Stephen King. We can't afford to give away our writing for $1. We 
need people to buy the books. ;-)

The same applies to CertificationZone, by the way. They SELL their 
material. What gives someone the right to give it away for free?

If you want free stuff, it's out there. A lot of it sucks, but some of it's 
pretty good.

Priscilla



>mjs
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> > Priscilla Oppenheimer
> > Sent: Monday, July 24, 2000 3:40 PM
> > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; 'Neelanga Udash'
> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: RE: Very good web site for CCNA
> >
> >
> > I was really impressed when I first reviewed this online
> > material. It's so
> > much better than most of the crap that's out there. Then I realized it's
> > the "CCNA Cisco Certified Network Associate Study Guide" by Syngress! How
> > could someone publish this online?? It appears to be a flagrant
> > example of
> > theft.
> >
> > Priscilla
> >
> >
> >
> > >--  From:   Neelanga Udash  Reply To:   Neelanga
> > >Udash  Sent:   Monday, 24 July, 2000 7:43
> > >AM  To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'  Subject:Very good
> > web site for
> > >CCNA
> > >
> > >Dear all,
> > >
> > >Take a look at this site. There is a whole book of CCNA material written
> > >by  a CCIE,
> > >
> > ><http://www.rkingma.com/cisco/testhome.htm>http://www.rkingma.com
>/cisco/testhome.htm
> ><http://www.rkingma.com/cisco/testhome.htm>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >***  U.D. Neelanga Udash  Network
> >Support Analyst
> >
> >IT Division  The British Council  49 Alfred House Gardens  Colombo
> >00300  Sri Lanka
> >
> >Tel:  +94 (0)1 581171 (ext.260)  Fax: +94 (0)1 587079  E-mail:
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ><<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>mailto:neelanga.udash@britishcoun
>cil.lk>
> >Web: <http://www.britishcouncil.lk>http://www.britishcouncil.lk
> >
> >***
> >
> >___  UPDATED Posting Guidelines:
> ><http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html>http://www.groupstudy.com/list/g
>uide.html
> >FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
> ><http://www.groupstudy.com>http://www.groupstudy.com Report misconduct
> >and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
>Priscilla Oppenheimer
>http://www.priscilla.com
>
>___
>UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html
>FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com
>Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]




Priscilla Oppenheimer
http://www.priscilla.com

___
UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html
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RE: Very good web site for CCNA

[Priscilla Oppenheimer]

To paraphrase Stephen King, think of it this way:

You can't walk into a bookstore and say, "Hey, I bought a copy of 'CCNA 
Study Guide' yesterday so now I'm taking 10,000 more copies to give to my 
friends." Right?

So you can't publish on the Internet the copy that you bought either.

A library is not a good analogy. A library buys one or two copies and 
serially lends it to one person after another. That's pretty different than 
giving it to thousands of people all at once. A library has special rights 
under the copyright law, but they don't extend to providing the material to 
numerous people that would have otherwise bought the book (perhaps).

The publishing industry definitely needs to think of new ways of creatively 
making money on the Internet. But let's hope people don't stymie those 
efforts by giving away material that is not theirs to give.

OK, let's get back to Cisco questions now.

Priscilla




At 03:43 PM 7/24/00, Brian wrote:

>I am not for anyone commiting theft, so please don't get me wrong.  But
>this brings up some interesting arguments.  Is someone putting a CD in a
>publically accessable document root theft?  Or does it only become theft
>when someone else out there on the Internet decides to download/view
>it?  And then who is the theif, the person that owns and is exporting the
>CD, or the person who does not own and is viewing?
>
>In libraries most works are copywrited, yet they let people check and and
>view the books without paying, how is this different?  I mean how are
>libraries allowed to essentially buy books and then loan them to people
>for freeonce again, don't take this the wrong way, I own all
>my study materials and I find them a great reference, I like new shiny
>books with hardcovers :)), but this is a modern day we live in and it
>brings up new arguments for the digital millenium, and I don't know all
>the answers.
>
>Brian
>
>
>On Mon, 24 Jul 2000, Priscilla Oppenheimer wrote:
>
> > I was really impressed when I first reviewed this online material. It's so
> > much better than most of the crap that's out there. Then I realized it's
> > the "CCNA Cisco Certified Network Associate Study Guide" by Syngress! How
> > could someone publish this online?? It appears to be a flagrant example of
> > theft.
> >
> > Priscilla
> >
> >
> >
> > >--  From:   Neelanga Udash  Reply To:   Neelanga
> > >Udash  Sent:   Monday, 24 July, 2000 7:43
> > >AM  To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'  Subject:Very good web site 
> for
> > >CCNA
> > >
> > >Dear all,
> > >
> > >Take a look at this site. There is a whole book of CCNA material written
> > >by  a CCIE,
> > >
> > >http://www.rkingma.com/cisco 
> /testhome.htm
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >***  U.D. Neelanga Udash  Network
> > >Support Analyst
> > >
> > >IT Division  The British Council  49 Alfred House Gardens  Colombo
> > >00300  Sri Lanka
> > >
> > >Tel:  +94 (0)1 581171 (ext.260)  Fax: +94 (0)1 587079  E-mail:
> > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > ><mailto:neelanga.udash@british 
> council.lk>
> > >Web: http://www.britishcouncil.lk
> > >
> > >***
> > >
> > >___  UPDATED Posting Guidelines:
> > >http://www.groupstudy.com/li 
> st/guide.html
> > >FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
> > >http://www.groupstudy.com  Report misconduct
> > >and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> > 
> >
> > Priscilla Oppenheimer
> > http://www.priscilla.com
> >
> > ___
> > UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html
> > FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com
> > Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
>
>--
>-
>Brian Feeny, CCNA   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>318-222-2638 x 109  http://www.shreve.net/~signal
>Network Administrator   ShreveNet Inc. (ASN 11881)
>
>___
>UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html
>FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com
>Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]




Priscilla Oppenheimer
http://www.priscilla.com

___
UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html
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RE: Very good web site for CCNA

[m. jean stockton]

The information at that website is great!   What a great RIPful  way for
Syngress to advertise.  As you said in your previous post, it is not
obsolete info but it is geared for the 640-407.  Who knows what his next
publications will be, but perhaps people will tend to purchase based on how
well the info is presented at that website.  So, who told anybody that the
publisher did not give his permission to publish the information on the web.
Did he do it himself?

mjs

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
Priscilla Oppenheimer
Sent: Monday, July 24, 2000 8:09 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Very good web site for CCNA


To paraphrase Stephen King, think of it this way:

You can't walk into a bookstore and say, "Hey, I bought a copy of 'CCNA
Study Guide' yesterday so now I'm taking 10,000 more copies to give to my
friends." Right?

So you can't publish on the Internet the copy that you bought either.

A library is not a good analogy. A library buys one or two copies and
serially lends it to one person after another. That's pretty different than
giving it to thousands of people all at once. A library has special rights
under the copyright law, but they don't extend to providing the material to
numerous people that would have otherwise bought the book (perhaps).

The publishing industry definitely needs to think of new ways of creatively
making money on the Internet. But let's hope people don't stymie those
efforts by giving away material that is not theirs to give.

OK, let's get back to Cisco questions now.

Priscilla




At 03:43 PM 7/24/00, Brian wrote:

>I am not for anyone commiting theft, so please don't get me wrong.  But
>this brings up some interesting arguments.  Is someone putting a CD in a
>publically accessable document root theft?  Or does it only become theft
>when someone else out there on the Internet decides to download/view
>it?  And then who is the theif, the person that owns and is exporting the
>CD, or the person who does not own and is viewing?
>
>In libraries most works are copywrited, yet they let people check and and
>view the books without paying, how is this different?  I mean how are
>libraries allowed to essentially buy books and then loan them to people
>for freeonce again, don't take this the wrong way, I own all
>my study materials and I find them a great reference, I like new shiny
>books with hardcovers :)), but this is a modern day we live in and it
>brings up new arguments for the digital millenium, and I don't know all
>the answers.
>
>Brian
>
>
>On Mon, 24 Jul 2000, Priscilla Oppenheimer wrote:
>
> > I was really impressed when I first reviewed this online material. It's
so
> > much better than most of the crap that's out there. Then I realized it's
> > the "CCNA Cisco Certified Network Associate Study Guide" by Syngress!
How
> > could someone publish this online?? It appears to be a flagrant example
of
> > theft.
> >
> > Priscilla
> >
> >
> >
> > >--  From:   Neelanga Udash  Reply To:   Neelanga
> > >Udash  Sent:   Monday, 24 July, 2000 7:43
> > >AM  To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'  Subject:Very good web site
> for
> > >CCNA
> > >
> > >Dear all,
> > >
> > >Take a look at this site. There is a whole book of CCNA material
written
> > >by  a CCIE,
> > >
> > ><http://www.rkingma.com/cisco/testhome.htm>http://www.rkingma.com/cisco
> /testhome.htm
> > ><http://www.rkingma.com/cisco/testhome.htm>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >***  U.D. Neelanga Udash
Network
> > >Support Analyst
> > >
> > >IT Division  The British Council  49 Alfred House Gardens  Colombo
> > >00300  Sri Lanka
> > >
> > >Tel:  +94 (0)1 581171 (ext.260)  Fax: +94 (0)1 587079  E-mail:
> > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > ><<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>mailto:neelanga.udash@british
> council.lk>
> > >Web: <http://www.britishcouncil.lk>http://www.britishcouncil.lk
> > >
> > >***
> > >
> > >___  UPDATED Posting Guidelines:
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> st/guide.html
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> > >and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> >
> > 

RE: Very good web site for CCNA

[William E Gragido]

Priscilla,

On the one hand, its a definite ethical error, on the flipside(gotta play
the devil's advocate here), is it any different than what thousands of
technical sites do?  I am not justifying it, from a legal perspective
however I would like to point out that some the best sites on the internet
dedicated to networking and data communications have or are doing the same
thing.  Take Ben Lovegrove's site, which by the way, I love!  He has links
to several other sites containing entire volumes of information(see the
Syngress link).  Is it wrong?  To some perhaps, if copyright and credit are
not giving their due, but I would be curious to see how many of who utilize
these resources would actively campaign against them.  Just a few thoughts!
By the way, your books are great!

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> Priscilla Oppenheimer
> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2000 2:40 PM
> To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; 'Neelanga Udash'
> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: Very good web site for CCNA
>
>
> I was really impressed when I first reviewed this online
> material. It's so
> much better than most of the crap that's out there. Then I realized it's
> the "CCNA Cisco Certified Network Associate Study Guide" by Syngress! How
> could someone publish this online?? It appears to be a flagrant
> example of
> theft.
>
> Priscilla
>
>
>
> >--  From:   Neelanga Udash  Reply To:   Neelanga
> >Udash  Sent:   Monday, 24 July, 2000 7:43
> >AM  To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'  Subject:Very good
> web site for
> >CCNA
> >
> >Dear all,
> >
> >Take a look at this site. There is a whole book of CCNA material written
> >by  a CCIE,
> >
> ><http://www.rkingma.com/cisco/testhome.htm>http://www.rkingma.com
> /cisco/testhome.htm
> ><http://www.rkingma.com/cisco/testhome.htm>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >***  U.D. Neelanga Udash
>  Network
> >Support Analyst
> >
> >IT Division  The British Council  49 Alfred House Gardens  Colombo
> >00300  Sri Lanka
> >
> >Tel:  +94 (0)1 581171 (ext.260)  Fax: +94 (0)1 587079  E-mail:
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> ><<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>mailto:neelanga.udash@b
ritishcouncil.lk>
>Web: <http://www.britishcouncil.lk>http://www.britishcouncil.lk
>
>***
>
>___  UPDATED Posting Guidelines:
><http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html>http://www.groupstudy.com/list/g
uide.html
>FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
><http://www.groupstudy.com>http://www.groupstudy.com  Report misconduct
>and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]




Priscilla Oppenheimer
http://www.priscilla.com

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RE: Very good web site for CCNA

[Priscilla Oppenheimer]

Ben Lovegrove's Web site links to Amazon's site so you can buy the books. 
Of course, that's completely different than what this other person did. 
This other person posted the whole book online on what appears to be his 
own personal Web site. He doesn't appear to be associated with the 
publisher. I don't think he's one of the authors either, though that's 
generally irrelevant. The publisher usually owns the copyright.

The publisher, Syngress, got what they deserved possibly, since they 
published the whole book on the included CD. But when you open that CD you 
agree to use it for your own personal use only. (At least that's usually 
the case. Does anyone have the book with the original CD packaging? Could 
you tell us what it says?)

Priscilla



At 09:30 PM 7/24/00, William E Gragido wrote:
>Priscilla,
>
>On the one hand, its a definite ethical error, on the flipside(gotta play
>the devil's advocate here), is it any different than what thousands of
>technical sites do?  I am not justifying it, from a legal perspective
>however I would like to point out that some the best sites on the internet
>dedicated to networking and data communications have or are doing the same
>thing.  Take Ben Lovegrove's site, which by the way, I love!  He has links
>to several other sites containing entire volumes of information(see the
>Syngress link).  Is it wrong?  To some perhaps, if copyright and credit are
>not giving their due, but I would be curious to see how many of who utilize
>these resources would actively campaign against them.  Just a few thoughts!
>By the way, your books are great!
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> > Priscilla Oppenheimer
> > Sent: Monday, July 24, 2000 2:40 PM
> > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; 'Neelanga Udash'
> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Subject: RE: Very good web site for CCNA
> >
> >
> > I was really impressed when I first reviewed this online
> > material. It's so
> > much better than most of the crap that's out there. Then I realized it's
> > the "CCNA Cisco Certified Network Associate Study Guide" by Syngress! How
> > could someone publish this online?? It appears to be a flagrant
> > example of
> > theft.
> >
> > Priscilla
> >
> >
> >
> > >--  From:   Neelanga Udash  Reply To:   Neelanga
> > >Udash  Sent:   Monday, 24 July, 2000 7:43
> > >AM  To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'  Subject:Very good
> > web site for
> > >CCNA
> > >
> > >Dear all,
> > >
> > >Take a look at this site. There is a whole book of CCNA material written
> > >by  a CCIE,
> > >
> > ><http://www.rkingma.com/cisco/testhome.htm>http://www.rkingma.com
> > /cisco/testhome.htm
> > ><http://www.rkingma.com/cisco/testhome.htm>
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >***  U.D. Neelanga Udash
> >  Network
> > >Support Analyst
> > >
> > >IT Division  The British Council  49 Alfred House Gardens  Colombo
> > >00300  Sri Lanka
> > >
> > >Tel:  +94 (0)1 581171 (ext.260)  Fax: +94 (0)1 587079  E-mail:
> > >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > ><<mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>mailto:neelanga.udash@b
>ritishcouncil.lk>
> >Web: <http://www.britishcouncil.lk>http://www.britishcouncil.lk
> >
> >***
> >
> >___  UPDATED Posting Guidelines:
> ><http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html>http://www.groupstudy.com/list/g
>uide.html
> >FAQ, list archives, and subscription info:
> ><http://www.groupstudy.com>http://www.groupstudy.com  Report misconduct
> >and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>
>
>
>Priscilla Oppenheimer
>http://www.priscilla.com
>
>___
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>FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com
>Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]




Priscilla Oppenheimer
http://www.priscilla.com

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RE: Very good web site for CCNA

[William E Gragido]

I could be wrong, and do correct me if thats the case, but I was under the
impression that once someone has purchased a book, that they have the right
to share that book with others provided that no monetary exchange is taking
place.  If there is such an exchange then I could see how an author could
get his/her feathers in an uproar, but if there is no exchange what is the
harm?  If what you are proposing was truly the case, than the disbursement
of knowledge via books(that in centuries past were hand copied), would never
had occurred.  Furthermore, what you are proposing directly targets the
largest offenders this sort of breach of ethics.libraries, schools,
colleges and universities.  Not trying to start another flame war, simply
striving for more clarity.  Tell me this, have you ever leant a book to
someone?  Any book, doesn't have to be a technical book necessarily, just a
book.  If so, I would encourage you to discipline yourself!  :-)

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> Priscilla Oppenheimer
> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2000 11:34 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: Very good web site for CCNA
>
>
> Ben Lovegrove's Web site links to Amazon's site so you can buy the books.
> Of course, that's completely different than what this other person did.
> This other person posted the whole book online on what appears to be his
> own personal Web site. He doesn't appear to be associated with the
> publisher. I don't think he's one of the authors either, though that's
> generally irrelevant. The publisher usually owns the copyright.
>
> The publisher, Syngress, got what they deserved possibly, since they
> published the whole book on the included CD. But when you open
> that CD you
> agree to use it for your own personal use only. (At least that's usually
> the case. Does anyone have the book with the original CD packaging? Could
> you tell us what it says?)
>
> Priscilla
>
>
>
> At 09:30 PM 7/24/00, William E Gragido wrote:
> >Priscilla,
> >
> >On the one hand, its a definite ethical error, on the flipside(gotta play
> >the devil's advocate here), is it any different than what thousands of
> >technical sites do?  I am not justifying it, from a legal perspective
> >however I would like to point out that some the best sites on
> the internet
> >dedicated to networking and data communications have or are
> doing the same
> >thing.  Take Ben Lovegrove's site, which by the way, I love!  He
> has links
> >to several other sites containing entire volumes of information(see the
> >Syngress link).  Is it wrong?  To some perhaps, if copyright and
> credit are
> >not giving their due, but I would be curious to see how many of
> who utilize
> >these resources would actively campaign against them.  Just a
> few thoughts!
> >By the way, your books are great!
> >
> > > -Original Message-----
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> > > Priscilla Oppenheimer
> > > Sent: Monday, July 24, 2000 2:40 PM
> > > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; 'Neelanga Udash'
> > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: RE: Very good web site for CCNA
> > >
> > >
> > > I was really impressed when I first reviewed this online
> > > material. It's so
> > > much better than most of the crap that's out there. Then I
> realized it's
> > > the "CCNA Cisco Certified Network Associate Study Guide" by
> Syngress! How
> > > could someone publish this online?? It appears to be a flagrant
> > > example of
> > > theft.
> > >
> > > Priscilla
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >--  From:   Neelanga Udash  Reply To:   Neelanga
> > > >Udash  Sent:   Monday, 24 July, 2000 7:43
> > > >AM  To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'  Subject:Very good
> > > web site for
> > > >CCNA
> > > >
> > > >Dear all,
> > > >
> > > >Take a look at this site. There is a whole book of CCNA
> material written
> > > >by  a CCIE,
> > > >
> > > ><http://www.rkingma.com/cisco/testhome.htm>http://www.rkingma.com
> > > /cisco/testhome.htm
> > > ><http://www.rkingma.com/cisco/testhome.htm>
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >***  U.D. Neelanga Udash
> > >  Network
> > > >Support Analys

RE: Very good web site for CCNA

[Ray Mosely]

You are correct.  You have the right to share THAT book.
You do not have the right to reproduce the book.  Copyright
laws prohibit unauthorized reproduction.  Publishing the
digital copy of the book on the Web is unauthorized reproduction.
It is NOT lending.

I like Priscilla's suggestion.  Let's get back to our namesake: cisco at
groupstudy,
and drop this thread.  It is up to the author and the publisher to pursue
the
legal problem.

Ray Mosely, CCNA, MCSE

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
William E Gragido
Sent: Tuesday, July 25, 2000 6:08 PM
To: Priscilla Oppenheimer; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: RE: Very good web site for CCNA


I could be wrong, and do correct me if thats the case, but I was under the
impression that once someone has purchased a book, that they have the right
to share that book with others provided that no monetary exchange is taking
place.  If there is such an exchange then I could see how an author could
get his/her feathers in an uproar, but if there is no exchange what is the
harm?  If what you are proposing was truly the case, than the disbursement
of knowledge via books(that in centuries past were hand copied), would never
had occurred.  Furthermore, what you are proposing directly targets the
largest offenders this sort of breach of ethics.libraries, schools,
colleges and universities.  Not trying to start another flame war, simply
striving for more clarity.  Tell me this, have you ever leant a book to
someone?  Any book, doesn't have to be a technical book necessarily, just a
book.  If so, I would encourage you to discipline yourself!  :-)

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> Priscilla Oppenheimer
> Sent: Monday, July 24, 2000 11:34 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: RE: Very good web site for CCNA
>
>
> Ben Lovegrove's Web site links to Amazon's site so you can buy the books.
> Of course, that's completely different than what this other person did.
> This other person posted the whole book online on what appears to be his
> own personal Web site. He doesn't appear to be associated with the
> publisher. I don't think he's one of the authors either, though that's
> generally irrelevant. The publisher usually owns the copyright.
>
> The publisher, Syngress, got what they deserved possibly, since they
> published the whole book on the included CD. But when you open
> that CD you
> agree to use it for your own personal use only. (At least that's usually
> the case. Does anyone have the book with the original CD packaging? Could
> you tell us what it says?)
>
> Priscilla
>
>
>
> At 09:30 PM 7/24/00, William E Gragido wrote:
> >Priscilla,
> >
> >On the one hand, its a definite ethical error, on the flipside(gotta play
> >the devil's advocate here), is it any different than what thousands of
> >technical sites do?  I am not justifying it, from a legal perspective
> >however I would like to point out that some the best sites on
> the internet
> >dedicated to networking and data communications have or are
> doing the same
> >thing.  Take Ben Lovegrove's site, which by the way, I love!  He
> has links
> >to several other sites containing entire volumes of information(see the
> >Syngress link).  Is it wrong?  To some perhaps, if copyright and
> credit are
> >not giving their due, but I would be curious to see how many of
> who utilize
> >these resources would actively campaign against them.  Just a
> few thoughts!
> >By the way, your books are great!
> >
> > > -----Original Message-----
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> > > Priscilla Oppenheimer
> > > Sent: Monday, July 24, 2000 2:40 PM
> > > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; 'Neelanga Udash'
> > > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Subject: RE: Very good web site for CCNA
> > >
> > >
> > > I was really impressed when I first reviewed this online
> > > material. It's so
> > > much better than most of the crap that's out there. Then I
> realized it's
> > > the "CCNA Cisco Certified Network Associate Study Guide" by
> Syngress! How
> > > could someone publish this online?? It appears to be a flagrant
> > > example of
> > > theft.
> > >
> > > Priscilla
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > >--  From:   Neelanga Udash  Reply To:   Neelanga
> > > >Udash  Sent:   Monday, 24 July, 2000 7:43
> > > >AM  To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'  Subject:Very good
> > > web s

RE: Very good web site for CCNA

[michael]

Ditto


>I like Priscilla's suggestion.  Let's get back to our namesake: cisco at
>groupstudy,and drop this thread.  It is up to the author and the publisher
to >pursue the legal problem.



Get your free email at www.friendlyemail.com

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Re: Very good web site for CCNA

[Clayton Dukes]

There is also a plethora of Cisco Cheat Sheets/Study Guides at
http://www.gdd.net/cisco



- Original Message -
From: Neelanga Udash <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, July 23, 2000 10:13 PM
Subject: Very good web site for CCNA


> Dear all,
>
> Take a look at this site. There is a whole book of CCNA material written
by
> a CCIE,
>
> http://www.rkingma.com/cisco/testhome.htm
> 
>
>
>
>
>
> ***
> U.D. Neelanga Udash
> Network Support Analyst
>
> IT Division
> The British Council
> 49 Alfred House Gardens
> Colombo 00300
> Sri Lanka
>
> Tel:  +94 (0)1 581171 (ext.260)
> Fax: +94 (0)1 587079
> E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> Web: http://www.britishcouncil.lk
>
> ***
>
> ___
> UPDATED Posting Guidelines: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/guide.html
> FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com
> Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Fwd: Re: Very good web site for CCNA

[Priscilla Oppenheimer]

Thanks for sending the legal wording that came with the Syngress book and 
CD. It sounds like they covered themselves. They do not allow someone to 
post the book on a server where multiple people could read it at once.

In answer to your question, no, the poster has not added comments, though 
he did make the self tests more interactive. Comments wouldn't matter 
anyway. It's still illegal and unethical to post huge chunks of someone 
else's work without permission or even any acknowledgement.

You could have sent your response to the list!? ;-) People need to be 
educated. I couldn't believe the person who thought it was the same as 
linking to someone else's page!?!

OK, no more messages on this topic. Let's get back to cisco questions!

Priscilla


>From: "Dick Silva" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: "Priscilla Oppenheimer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: Very good web site for CCNA
>Date: Tue, 25 Jul 2000 07:51:43 -0400
>X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4
>
>/
>Priscilla...
>
>Reading from the page facing the CD
>
>Copyright Statement
>This software is protected by both United States copyright law and
>international
>..
>Except as noted in the contents of the CD-ROM, you must treat this software
>just like a book.  However, you may copy it into a computer to be used and
>you may make archival copies of the software for the sole purpose of backing
>up the software and protecting your investment from loss.  By saying, "just
>like a book," The McGraw-Hill Companies, Inc. ("Osborne/McGraw") means, for
>example, that this software may be used by any number of people and may be
>freely moved from one computer location to  another, so long as there is no
>possibility of its being used at one location or on one computer while it is
>being used at another.  Just as a book cannot be read by two different
>people in two different places at the same time, neither can the software be
>used by two different people in two different places at the same time.
>
>A thought occurred to me.  Has the individual at the web site made comments
>along the way as one is reading the contents on the web site?
>
>"Just an old dog trying to learn new tricks".
>dsilva
>
>
>
>-Original Message-
>From: Priscilla Oppenheimer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: Tuesday, July 25, 2000 1:00 AM
>Subject: RE: Very good web site for CCNA
>
>
> >Ben Lovegrove's Web site links to Amazon's site so you can buy the books.
> >Of course, that's completely different than what this other person did.
> >This other person posted the whole book online on what appears to be his
> >own personal Web site. He doesn't appear to be associated with the
> >publisher. I don't think he's one of the authors either, though that's
> >generally irrelevant. The publisher usually owns the copyright.
> >
> >The publisher, Syngress, got what they deserved possibly, since they
> >published the whole book on the included CD. But when you open that CD you
> >agree to use it for your own personal use only. (At least that's usually
> >the case. Does anyone have the book with the original CD packaging? Could
> >you tell us what it says?)
> >
> >Priscilla
> >
> >
> >
> >At 09:30 PM 7/24/00, William E Gragido wrote:
> >>Priscilla,
> >>
> >>On the one hand, its a definite ethical error, on the flipside(gotta play
> >>the devil's advocate here), is it any different than what thousands of
> >>technical sites do?  I am not justifying it, from a legal perspective
> >>however I would like to point out that some the best sites on the internet
> >>dedicated to networking and data communications have or are doing the same
> >>thing.  Take Ben Lovegrove's site, which by the way, I love!  He has links
> >>to several other sites containing entire volumes of information(see the
> >>Syngress link).  Is it wrong?  To some perhaps, if copyright and credit
>are
> >>not giving their due, but I would be curious to see how many of who
>utilize
> >>these resources would actively campaign against them.  Just a few
>thoughts!
> >>By the way, your books are great!
> >>
> >> > -Original Message-
> >> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
> >> > Priscilla Oppenheimer
> >> > Sent: Monday, July 24, 2000 2:40 PM
> >> > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]'; 'Neelanga Udash'
> >> > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>