Re: So what SHOULD a CCIE know?
the first and most important thing is ...NEVER NEVER talk to strangerslike those naughty,scary people from Foundry and eXtemeNO NO Naughty boy bad boy in your bed. ? ? ? if we talking about CCIE`s i think they should know what`s is relevant today AND more importantly tomorrow...I.E...VPN, Voice over FR/ATM,layer 4 switching .If no-one is using X25,DLSW,Token ring why waste time bieng tested on somthing you may not come across everyday... 2 penny`s worth steve From: "Chuck Larrieu" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: "Chuck Larrieu" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Cisco Mail List" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: So what SHOULD a CCIE know? Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 11:39:43 -0800 We've all seen a number of comments about the CCIE written and the CCIE Lab, regarding content. Most of those comments have been negative. So, what SHOULD be tested? What SHOULD a CCIE know? Anyone? Chuck -- I am Locutus, a CCIE Lab Proctor. Xx_Brain_dumps_xX are futile. Your life as it has been is over ( if you hope to pass ) From this time forward, you will study US! ( apologies to the folks at Star Trek TNG ) _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get Your Private, Free E-mail from MSN Hotmail at http://www.hotmail.com. _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: So what SHOULD a CCIE know?
I would like to see the CCIE even more specilized, I don't think that there should be VoIP, VPN and security in a RS designation they should be a seperate designation. Seems like what ever is hot cisco puts in the RS cert. I don't think that Layer 1 and 2 should be a big part of the RS except for general connection requirements. That should also be a designation. There sould be at least 10-12 maybe 15 designations not just 5. The wider in scope the subject matter the less of an expert you become so I feel that adding too many topics to a designation dilutes its impact. Duck - Original Message - From: Howard C. Berkowitz [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 12:31 PM Subject: Re: So what SHOULD a CCIE know? We've all seen a number of comments about the CCIE written and the CCIE Lab, regarding content. Most of those comments have been negative. So, what SHOULD be tested? What SHOULD a CCIE know? Anyone? Chuck I'll make a few observations, some of which may be controversial. I realize many people look at CCIE as the ultimate, but I can't consider it such. It is meaningful, but there are lots of jobs that require more and/or more specialized knowledge and experience. CCIE (RS) indicates a solid understanding of routing and switching, from a deployment and support standpoint, for medium to large enterprises and small ISPs. It does not indicate significant competence in: -- requirements analysis and large network architecture -- product evaluation/selection -- global Internet routing -- protocol architecture, design, and implementation -- formal performance specification, analysis, and tuning; capacity planning -- security requirements and planning (i.e., why you select which IPsec, etc., parameters) -- large-scale network management It appears to be including a good deal of VoIP, but it is not a general telecom certification. The basic CCIE shows substantial competence in workgroup protocols, but not SNA. It considers hosts only in the manner to which they interface to the routing and switching system. _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: So what SHOULD a CCIE know?
I feel that a CCIE should know everything in his technology specialty (i.e. routed global networks with enterprise switching) like he ate it for breakfast. For everything else a CCIE should have a general knowledge and know exactly how and where to find more information on the subject. About the tests: I think they are good, though they could be a bit more in depth (maybe more questions on certain topics). When I took the written the first time I came out of it with a headache and a clear path of what I needed to work on. I'm glad to see that they are retiring some of the older protocols, but for those that work strictly in the IP area it can be a burden to learn things we have never touched and don't work with. -j Chuck Larrieu wrote: We've all seen a number of comments about the CCIE written and the CCIE Lab, regarding content. Most of those comments have been negative. So, what SHOULD be tested? What SHOULD a CCIE know? Anyone? Chuck -- I am Locutus, a CCIE Lab Proctor. Xx_Brain_dumps_xX are futile. Your life as it has been is over ( if you hope to pass ) From this time forward, you will study US! ( apologies to the folks at Star Trek TNG ) _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: So what SHOULD a CCIE know?
Well let's start with the obvious. It's well documented that if a CCIE candidate has limited knot-tying hands-on experience to go along with his/her book knowledge, the probability of a "tripping mishap" is increased dramatically. Imagine the embarassment of the candidate, when he/she injurs themselves while entering the Lab examination roomall because of an untied shoelace which could have been easily avoided had the candidate spent more time with "hands-on" exercises. Lance From: "Chuck Larrieu" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: "Chuck Larrieu" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: "Cisco Mail List" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: So what SHOULD a CCIE know? Date: Wed, 27 Dec 2000 11:39:43 -0800 We've all seen a number of comments about the CCIE written and the CCIE Lab, regarding content. Most of those comments have been negative. So, what SHOULD be tested? What SHOULD a CCIE know? Anyone? Chuck -- I am Locutus, a CCIE Lab Proctor. Xx_Brain_dumps_xX are futile. Your life as it has been is over ( if you hope to pass ) From this time forward, you will study US! ( apologies to the folks at Star Trek TNG ) _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: So what SHOULD a CCIE know?
We've all seen a number of comments about the CCIE written and the CCIE Lab, regarding content. Most of those comments have been negative. So, what SHOULD be tested? What SHOULD a CCIE know? Anyone? Chuck I'll make a few observations, some of which may be controversial. I realize many people look at CCIE as the ultimate, but I can't consider it such. It is meaningful, but there are lots of jobs that require more and/or more specialized knowledge and experience. CCIE (RS) indicates a solid understanding of routing and switching, from a deployment and support standpoint, for medium to large enterprises and small ISPs. It does not indicate significant competence in: -- requirements analysis and large network architecture -- product evaluation/selection -- global Internet routing -- protocol architecture, design, and implementation -- formal performance specification, analysis, and tuning; capacity planning -- security requirements and planning (i.e., why you select which IPsec, etc., parameters) -- large-scale network management It appears to be including a good deal of VoIP, but it is not a general telecom certification. The basic CCIE shows substantial competence in workgroup protocols, but not SNA. It considers hosts only in the manner to which they interface to the routing and switching system. _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: So what SHOULD a CCIE know?
Humm... interesting question. From one point of view... What should be tested (or not tested): In over 10 years of IT work I have only ran across AppleTalk once, so drop AppleTalk (which they are doing). In the same time frame I have only ran across one IPX network that wasn't either in the process of being converted to 100BaseT or was only being used in the DC to connect to a Novell server that was a file server which had it's drives mapped to NT drives. So IPX should take a big back seat to IP. TR, well personally I like it, but again I have only seen one network with TR that wasn't planned to be changed to 100BaseT. Come to think of it, they announced the upgrade a couple of months after I left there. So TR should also be in the back seat. Bridging, humm... well in some respects it is rarely used in the networks I have seen, mostly to get to SNA servers. But then again you had better know your IRB pretty well with all of the L3 switching that companies are being sold these days. L3 switching, better know that pretty well. There are just too many companies being sold L3 that it had better take a bigger role in the lab. The R/S written and lab should take on more of the service provider element. I am not saying that the new SP track should be rolled into the RS track. But with outsourcing and the Internet with VPN, dial and the like taking a bigger and bigger role in most companies, better know your ATM, dial, VPN, BGP, etc, etc. The same can be said for security. Not having taken the lab, I can not really say as to how IPX, TR, or bridging is tested. It could be that it is tested as a primary thing and not as a secondary, e.g. "well looks like we are going to have to deal with that TR segment over rather we want to or not". The same could be said for ATM, maybe it should be a primary and not a secondary. Well there is $0.02 from one point of view, HTH. -- John Hardman CCNP MCSE+I ""Chuck Larrieu"" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message 002c01c0703c$c2ef8680$[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:002c01c0703c$c2ef8680$[EMAIL PROTECTED]... We've all seen a number of comments about the CCIE written and the CCIE Lab, regarding content. Most of those comments have been negative. So, what SHOULD be tested? What SHOULD a CCIE know? Anyone? Chuck -- I am Locutus, a CCIE Lab Proctor. Xx_Brain_dumps_xX are futile. Your life as it has been is over ( if you hope to pass ) From this time forward, you will study US! ( apologies to the folks at Star Trek TNG ) _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: So what SHOULD a CCIE know?
No flames please, but ... Considering the enormous wait time for the lab now, and our desire to keep this cert revered, I think the written should be more difficult - I don't know if that means more questions, tougher questions, higher passing score, or all of the above ... I haven't taken the lab yet (Jan 4-5), but we've all heard that you'll have to do things that nobody would dare implement in a real network. I can understand that to some extent, to test depth of knowledge, but I think a CCIE also should have proved that he/she can build a network that makes a whole crapload of sense. (I guess that also means I believe that when Cisco went up to 5 CCIE tracks, they were off their nut, and maybe now they're starting to come to their senses) "Chuck Larrieu" [EMAIL PROTECTED] 12/27 11:39 AM We've all seen a number of comments about the CCIE written and the CCIE Lab, regarding content. Most of those comments have been negative. So, what SHOULD be tested? What SHOULD a CCIE know? Anyone? Chuck -- I am Locutus, a CCIE Lab Proctor. Xx_Brain_dumps_xX are futile. Your life as it has been is over ( if you hope to pass ) From this time forward, you will study US! ( apologies to the folks at Star Trek TNG ) _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: So what SHOULD a CCIE know?
Hi, I still seem to strike the odd AppleTalk network, certainly a lot of IPX. I am usually called on when the client IT people are confused. Often the equipment is not Cisco. I guess we each have a different need but it is important that things such as the CCIE have a high level of regard in the IT world. Therefore I would think a CCIE needs to know a lot about a lot. The CCIE needs to be an "expert" on things "internetworking". This to me means if there is something the CCIE does not know he needs to be able to quickly identify what is not known and know who to talk to or where to get the info. As an "expert" the CCIE should then be able to share the acquired knowledge without fear of his or her position. Teunis Hobart, Tasmania Australia On Wednesday, December 27, 2000 at 01:47:38 PM, John Hardman wrote: Humm... interesting question. From one point of view... What should be tested (or not tested): In over 10 years of IT work I have only ran across AppleTalk once, so drop AppleTalk (which they are doing). In the same time frame I have only ran across one IPX network that wasn't either in the process of being converted to 100BaseT or was only being used in the DC to connect to a Novell server that was a file server which had it's drives mapped to NT drives. So IPX should take a big back seat to IP. TR, well personally I like it, but again I have only seen one network with TR that wasn't planned to be changed to 100BaseT. Come to think of it, they announced the upgrade a couple of months after I left there. So TR should also be in the back seat. Bridging, humm... well in some respects it is rarely used in the networks I have seen, mostly to get to SNA servers. But then again you had better know your IRB pretty well with all of the L3 switching that companies are being sold these days. L3 switching, better know that pretty well. There are just too many companies being sold L3 that it had better take a bigger role in the lab. The R/S written and lab should take on more of the service provider element. I am not saying that the new SP track should be rolled into the RS track. But with outsourcing and the Internet with VPN, dial and the like taking a bigger and bigger role in most companies, better know your ATM, dial, VPN, BGP, etc, etc. The same can be said for security. Not having taken the lab, I can not really say as to how IPX, TR, or bridging is tested. It could be that it is tested as a primary thing and not as a secondary, e.g. "well looks like we are going to have to deal with that TR segment over rather we want to or not". The same could be said for ATM, maybe it should be a primary and not a secondary. Well there is $0.02 from one point of view, HTH. -- John Hardman CCNP MCSE+I ""Chuck Larrieu"" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message 002c01c0703c$c2ef8680$[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:002c01c0703c$c2ef8680$[EMAIL PROTECTED]... We've all seen a number of comments about the CCIE written and the CCIE Lab, regarding content. Most of those comments have been negative. So, what SHOULD be tested? What SHOULD a CCIE know? Anyone? Chuck -- I am Locutus, a CCIE Lab Proctor. Xx_Brain_dumps_xX are futile. Your life as it has been is over ( if you hope to pass ) From this time forward, you will study US! ( apologies to the folks at Star Trek TNG ) _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- www.tasmail.com _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: So what SHOULD a CCIE know?
It is obvious that with the explosion of the Internet that networks and networking, in general, are moving to a more unified approach. We are seeing legacy protocols that could not stand the test of time give way and die in the face of TCP/IP. All of this is good news for CCIE's among others. The more things standardize on tried and true open standards, the better off our jobs will be, not to mention the experience of the customers we service. Imagine a world with no Appletalk, IPX, SNA, LAT, etc. Imagine that there are a few base protocols like TCP/IP working in tandem with Routing Protocols like OSPF and BGP. I beleive that when that day arrives, the CCIE should be a true expert in the pared down world wide standards that emerge as the dominant players. The less needless complexity that we need to grapple with, the better we can become and hone our skills to the expert level. Just my 2 cents Joseph -Original Message- From: Chuck Larrieu [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 11:40 AM To: Cisco Mail List Subject: So what SHOULD a CCIE know? We've all seen a number of comments about the CCIE written and the CCIE Lab, regarding content. Most of those comments have been negative. So, what SHOULD be tested? What SHOULD a CCIE know? Anyone? Chuck -- I am Locutus, a CCIE Lab Proctor. Xx_Brain_dumps_xX are futile. Your life as it has been is over ( if you hope to pass ) From this time forward, you will study US! ( apologies to the folks at Star Trek TNG ) _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: So what SHOULD a CCIE know?
Howard: I agree and disagree. I think you are right on the money with your observations, but only as they pertain to the R/S CCIE. I think Cisco should (and is beginning to) address the more specialized knowledge areas by offering multiple certification tracks. (eg. SNA, ISP, Voice???). Once these other tracks really catch hold, I think you will see more people moving away from the R/S tracks and into the areas of specialized knowledge and experience required for their particular jobs, as you so deftly stated. Scott McClure ""Howard C. Berkowitz"" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message I'll make a few observations, some of which may be controversial. I realize many people look at CCIE as the ultimate, but I can't consider it such. It is meaningful, but there are lots of jobs that require more and/or more specialized knowledge and experience. _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: So what SHOULD a CCIE know?
""John Hardman"" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message 92dofu$av3$[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:92dofu$av3$[EMAIL PROTECTED]... Humm... interesting question. From one point of view... What should be tested (or not tested): In over 10 years of IT work I have only ran across AppleTalk once, so drop AppleTalk (which they are doing). In the same time frame I have only ran across one IPX network that wasn't either in the process of being converted to 100BaseT or was only being used in the DC to connect to a Novell server that was a file server which had it's drives mapped to NT drives. So IPX should take a big back seat to IP. That's a pretty cool trick. Tell me how to convert my IPX network to 100BaseT and how I map my Novell server's drive to NT drives. WOW! My $.02 Scott McClure, MCNE, CCDA, CCNP, (+Written) TR, well personally I like it, but again I have only seen one network with TR that wasn't planned to be changed to 100BaseT. Come to think of it, they announced the upgrade a couple of months after I left there. So TR should also be in the back seat. Bridging, humm... well in some respects it is rarely used in the networks I have seen, mostly to get to SNA servers. But then again you had better know your IRB pretty well with all of the L3 switching that companies are being sold these days. L3 switching, better know that pretty well. There are just too many companies being sold L3 that it had better take a bigger role in the lab. The R/S written and lab should take on more of the service provider element. I am not saying that the new SP track should be rolled into the RS track. But with outsourcing and the Internet with VPN, dial and the like taking a bigger and bigger role in most companies, better know your ATM, dial, VPN, BGP, etc, etc. The same can be said for security. Not having taken the lab, I can not really say as to how IPX, TR, or bridging is tested. It could be that it is tested as a primary thing and not as a secondary, e.g. "well looks like we are going to have to deal with that TR segment over rather we want to or not". The same could be said for ATM, maybe it should be a primary and not a secondary. Well there is $0.02 from one point of view, HTH. -- John Hardman CCNP MCSE+I ""Chuck Larrieu"" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message 002c01c0703c$c2ef8680$[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:002c01c0703c$c2ef8680$[EMAIL PROTECTED]... We've all seen a number of comments about the CCIE written and the CCIE Lab, regarding content. Most of those comments have been negative. So, what SHOULD be tested? What SHOULD a CCIE know? Anyone? Chuck -- I am Locutus, a CCIE Lab Proctor. Xx_Brain_dumps_xX are futile. Your life as it has been is over ( if you hope to pass ) From this time forward, you will study US! ( apologies to the folks at Star Trek TNG ) _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: So what SHOULD a CCIE know?
owww... Like HE ate for breakfast... I am telling -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Jim Healis Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 1:53 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: So what SHOULD a CCIE know? I feel that a CCIE should know everything in his technology specialty (i.e. routed global networks with enterprise switching) like he ate it for breakfast. For everything else a CCIE should have a general knowledge and know exactly how and where to find more information on the subject. About the tests: I think they are good, though they could be a bit more in depth (maybe more questions on certain topics). When I took the written the first time I came out of it with a headache and a clear path of what I needed to work on. I'm glad to see that they are retiring some of the older protocols, but for those that work strictly in the IP area it can be a burden to learn things we have never touched and don't work with. -j Chuck Larrieu wrote: We've all seen a number of comments about the CCIE written and the CCIE Lab, regarding content. Most of those comments have been negative. So, what SHOULD be tested? What SHOULD a CCIE know? Anyone? Chuck -- I am Locutus, a CCIE Lab Proctor. Xx_Brain_dumps_xX are futile. Your life as it has been is over ( if you hope to pass ) From this time forward, you will study US! ( apologies to the folks at Star Trek TNG ) _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: So what SHOULD a CCIE know?
Bridging... DSL is making a comeback in bridging... I have also had to use it in some routers for a period of time as a workaround -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of John Hardman Sent: Wednesday, December 27, 2000 2:48 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: So what SHOULD a CCIE know? Humm... interesting question. From one point of view... What should be tested (or not tested): In over 10 years of IT work I have only ran across AppleTalk once, so drop AppleTalk (which they are doing). In the same time frame I have only ran across one IPX network that wasn't either in the process of being converted to 100BaseT or was only being used in the DC to connect to a Novell server that was a file server which had it's drives mapped to NT drives. So IPX should take a big back seat to IP. TR, well personally I like it, but again I have only seen one network with TR that wasn't planned to be changed to 100BaseT. Come to think of it, they announced the upgrade a couple of months after I left there. So TR should also be in the back seat. Bridging, humm... well in some respects it is rarely used in the networks I have seen, mostly to get to SNA servers. But then again you had better know your IRB pretty well with all of the L3 switching that companies are being sold these days. L3 switching, better know that pretty well. There are just too many companies being sold L3 that it had better take a bigger role in the lab. The R/S written and lab should take on more of the service provider element. I am not saying that the new SP track should be rolled into the RS track. But with outsourcing and the Internet with VPN, dial and the like taking a bigger and bigger role in most companies, better know your ATM, dial, VPN, BGP, etc, etc. The same can be said for security. Not having taken the lab, I can not really say as to how IPX, TR, or bridging is tested. It could be that it is tested as a primary thing and not as a secondary, e.g. "well looks like we are going to have to deal with that TR segment over rather we want to or not". The same could be said for ATM, maybe it should be a primary and not a secondary. Well there is $0.02 from one point of view, HTH. -- John Hardman CCNP MCSE+I ""Chuck Larrieu"" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote in message 002c01c0703c$c2ef8680$[EMAIL PROTECTED]">news:002c01c0703c$c2ef8680$[EMAIL PROTECTED]... We've all seen a number of comments about the CCIE written and the CCIE Lab, regarding content. Most of those comments have been negative. So, what SHOULD be tested? What SHOULD a CCIE know? Anyone? Chuck -- I am Locutus, a CCIE Lab Proctor. Xx_Brain_dumps_xX are futile. Your life as it has been is over ( if you hope to pass ) From this time forward, you will study US! ( apologies to the folks at Star Trek TNG ) _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED] _ FAQ, list archives, and subscription info: http://www.groupstudy.com/list/cisco.html Report misconduct and Nondisclosure violations to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
