subject:"A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for\: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux."

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

2012-06-23 Thread Moritz Ulrich

Because emacs is traditionally THE editor for lispy programming languages
and is so versatile. Of course there are other IDEs out there and you
should try a few, but Emacs is easily the most common tool when programming
lisp and therefore has the biggest variety of helpers available.

-- 
Sent from my mobile
Am 23.06.2012 07:52 schrieb Qiu Xiafei qiuxia...@gmail.com:

 p.s. I think idea + la enclosure works quite wellwhy beginners are
 always introduced to emacs solution?

 On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 4:45 AM, fenton fenton.trav...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Brad, I've updated my doc with your questions.  Here is how I
 responded to your particular queries.  Note the answer may not be correct
 as I'm a clojure newbie myself.

 -

 Leiningen is a build tool like maven for java, or rake (i think) for
 ruby.  You can use it to publish your jar into maven repositories for
 example.

 Slime is a protocol that lets you communicate from emacs to a
 listening server.  In clojure, we start a swank server, which is the
 clojure REPL process, and connect to it from emacs, speaking 'slime'.
 The net effect is that we can have a REPL inside our emacs editor.

 -


 On Thursday, June 21, 2012 5:58:23 PM UTC-7, brad bowman wrote:

 On Thursday, June 21, 2012 12:58:19 PM UTC+10, John Gabriele wrote:

 On Jun 18, 10:23 pm, Chris Zheng zcaud...@gmail.com wrote:
  {snip}
  So basically, if a 'lead clojure evangelist' can either 'officially'
 or
  'unofficially' recommend ONE emacs setup, along with a bunch of
  videos/tutorials that demonstrate how to code and how fast it is to
 design
  and code using the repl. Then that be enough to get people at least
  interested.

 People are very opinionated about their editor/IDE. I think the Getting
 +Started docs are good --- they separate:

   * if you want just Emacs plus the repl, here you go (clojure-mode
 readme)
   * if you want Emacs + inferior-lisp, do this (this doc needs work)
   * if you want Emacs + swank/slime, do this (swank-clojure readme)

 and of course also info on Eclipse, Clooj, and other editors/ide's as
 well.


 I'm right at the start of this process, completely unfamiliar with
 Clojure,
 Leiningen, Emacs, Java and all of the projects with cute names.
 I don't even know what I want.

 I've cut and pasted various git-clone and lein commands, but have no idea
 about the bigger picture.  I'm happy to dawdle along on my own, but if my
 current (and hopefully temporary) ignorance can provide feedback on a
 start-up guide then let me know.

 At present I'm often wondering what is this thing? why do I want it?.
 Slime for example.  I don't especially want answers here, but something
 like
 a glossary for the clojure ecosystem would be handy (not that I've
 looked hard).

 Another document that might useful is a platform Rosetta stone
 matching clojure tools and libraries to those that fill a similar role
 in other
 languages (Java and Ruby for starters).  This is more of a nice to
 have.

 Thanks,

 Brad

  --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
 Groups Clojure group.
 To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
 Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with
 your first post.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
 clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
 For more options, visit this group at
 http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en


  --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
 Groups Clojure group.
 To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
 Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with
 your first post.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
 clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
 For more options, visit this group at
 http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

2012-06-22 Thread brad bowman

On Thursday, June 21, 2012 12:58:19 PM UTC+10, John Gabriele wrote:

 On Jun 18, 10:23 pm, Chris Zheng zcaud...@gmail.com wrote: 
  {snip} 
  So basically, if a 'lead clojure evangelist' can either 'officially' or 
  'unofficially' recommend ONE emacs setup, along with a bunch of 
  videos/tutorials that demonstrate how to code and how fast it is to 
 design 
  and code using the repl. Then that be enough to get people at least 
  interested. 

 People are very opinionated about their editor/IDE. I think the Getting 
 +Started docs are good --- they separate: 

   * if you want just Emacs plus the repl, here you go (clojure-mode 
 readme) 
   * if you want Emacs + inferior-lisp, do this (this doc needs work) 
   * if you want Emacs + swank/slime, do this (swank-clojure readme) 

 and of course also info on Eclipse, Clooj, and other editors/ide's as 
 well. 


I'm right at the start of this process, completely unfamiliar with Clojure,
Leiningen, Emacs, Java and all of the projects with cute names.
I don't even know what I want.

I've cut and pasted various git-clone and lein commands, but have no idea
about the bigger picture.  I'm happy to dawdle along on my own, but if my
current (and hopefully temporary) ignorance can provide feedback on a
start-up guide then let me know.

At present I'm often wondering what is this thing? why do I want it?.
Slime for example.  I don't especially want answers here, but something like
a glossary for the clojure ecosystem would be handy (not that I've looked 
hard).

Another document that might useful is a platform Rosetta stone
matching clojure tools and libraries to those that fill a similar role in 
other
languages (Java and Ruby for starters).  This is more of a nice to have.

Thanks,

Brad

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

2012-06-22 Thread fenton

Hi Brad, I've updated my doc with your questions.  Here is how I responded 
to your particular queries.  Note the answer may not be correct as I'm a 
clojure newbie myself.

-

Leiningen is a build tool like maven for java, or rake (i think) for
ruby.  You can use it to publish your jar into maven repositories for 
example.

Slime is a protocol that lets you communicate from emacs to a
listening server.  In clojure, we start a swank server, which is the
clojure REPL process, and connect to it from emacs, speaking 'slime'.
The net effect is that we can have a REPL inside our emacs editor.

-

On Thursday, June 21, 2012 5:58:23 PM UTC-7, brad bowman wrote:

 On Thursday, June 21, 2012 12:58:19 PM UTC+10, John Gabriele wrote:

 On Jun 18, 10:23 pm, Chris Zheng zcaud...@gmail.com wrote: 
  {snip} 
  So basically, if a 'lead clojure evangelist' can either 'officially' or 
  'unofficially' recommend ONE emacs setup, along with a bunch of 
  videos/tutorials that demonstrate how to code and how fast it is to 
 design 
  and code using the repl. Then that be enough to get people at least 
  interested. 

 People are very opinionated about their editor/IDE. I think the Getting 
 +Started docs are good --- they separate: 

   * if you want just Emacs plus the repl, here you go (clojure-mode 
 readme) 
   * if you want Emacs + inferior-lisp, do this (this doc needs work) 
   * if you want Emacs + swank/slime, do this (swank-clojure readme) 

 and of course also info on Eclipse, Clooj, and other editors/ide's as 
 well. 


 I'm right at the start of this process, completely unfamiliar with Clojure,
 Leiningen, Emacs, Java and all of the projects with cute names.
 I don't even know what I want.

 I've cut and pasted various git-clone and lein commands, but have no idea
 about the bigger picture.  I'm happy to dawdle along on my own, but if my
 current (and hopefully temporary) ignorance can provide feedback on a
 start-up guide then let me know.

 At present I'm often wondering what is this thing? why do I want it?.
 Slime for example.  I don't especially want answers here, but something 
 like
 a glossary for the clojure ecosystem would be handy (not that I've looked 
 hard).

 Another document that might useful is a platform Rosetta stone
 matching clojure tools and libraries to those that fill a similar role in 
 other
 languages (Java and Ruby for starters).  This is more of a nice to have.

 Thanks,

 Brad


-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

2012-06-22 Thread Qiu Xiafei

p.s. I think idea + la enclosure works quite wellwhy beginners are
always introduced to emacs solution?

On Sat, Jun 23, 2012 at 4:45 AM, fenton fenton.trav...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Brad, I've updated my doc with your questions.  Here is how I responded
 to your particular queries.  Note the answer may not be correct as I'm a
 clojure newbie myself.

 -

 Leiningen is a build tool like maven for java, or rake (i think) for
 ruby.  You can use it to publish your jar into maven repositories for
 example.

 Slime is a protocol that lets you communicate from emacs to a
 listening server.  In clojure, we start a swank server, which is the
 clojure REPL process, and connect to it from emacs, speaking 'slime'.
 The net effect is that we can have a REPL inside our emacs editor.

 -


 On Thursday, June 21, 2012 5:58:23 PM UTC-7, brad bowman wrote:

 On Thursday, June 21, 2012 12:58:19 PM UTC+10, John Gabriele wrote:

 On Jun 18, 10:23 pm, Chris Zheng zcaud...@gmail.com wrote:
  {snip}
  So basically, if a 'lead clojure evangelist' can either 'officially'
 or
  'unofficially' recommend ONE emacs setup, along with a bunch of
  videos/tutorials that demonstrate how to code and how fast it is to
 design
  and code using the repl. Then that be enough to get people at least
  interested.

 People are very opinionated about their editor/IDE. I think the Getting
 +Started docs are good --- they separate:

   * if you want just Emacs plus the repl, here you go (clojure-mode
 readme)
   * if you want Emacs + inferior-lisp, do this (this doc needs work)
   * if you want Emacs + swank/slime, do this (swank-clojure readme)

 and of course also info on Eclipse, Clooj, and other editors/ide's as
 well.


 I'm right at the start of this process, completely unfamiliar with
 Clojure,
 Leiningen, Emacs, Java and all of the projects with cute names.
 I don't even know what I want.

 I've cut and pasted various git-clone and lein commands, but have no idea
 about the bigger picture.  I'm happy to dawdle along on my own, but if my
 current (and hopefully temporary) ignorance can provide feedback on a
 start-up guide then let me know.

 At present I'm often wondering what is this thing? why do I want it?.
 Slime for example.  I don't especially want answers here, but something
 like
 a glossary for the clojure ecosystem would be handy (not that I've looked
 hard).

 Another document that might useful is a platform Rosetta stone
 matching clojure tools and libraries to those that fill a similar role in
 other
 languages (Java and Ruby for starters).  This is more of a nice to have.

 Thanks,

 Brad

  --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
 Groups Clojure group.
 To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
 Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with
 your first post.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
 clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
 For more options, visit this group at
 http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en


-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

2012-06-21 Thread Jim - FooBar();


On 21/06/12 03:58, John Gabriele wrote:

Sometimes you need to spend time with an editor + repl to see the
value in something more sophisticated.

Also, I suppose sometimes you end up sticking with the editor + repl
anyway.:)


exactlypersonally I'm sticking to editor + embedded repl until 
light-table comes out!


Jim

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

2012-06-21 Thread John Stevenson

I created a guide from my recent experience with Clojure + Leiningen2 +
Emacs (on Linux and Mac OSX) that hopefully makes it very easy for
developers to get a productive environment.

http://clojure.jr0cket.co.uk/perfect-environment

I would be willing to contribute any or all of this if its useful to the
official docs on Confluence.  I will have a look at what is required to
contribute to dev.clojure.org.

Thanks
| About http://john.jr0cket.co.uk/ | Blog http://blog.jr0cket.co.uk/ |
@JR0cket http://http//twitter.com/#%21/JR0cket |
Google+http://gplus.to/JR0cket|
LinkedIn http://uk.linkedin.com/in/jr0cket |


On 13 June 2012 20:33, fenton fenton.trav...@gmail.com wrote:


 https://github.com/ftravers/PublicDocumentation/blob/master/clojure-development-setup.md

 An index to other clojure tutorials:


 https://github.com/ftravers/PublicDocumentation/blob/master/clojure-index.md



-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

2012-06-20 Thread Chris Zheng

I was using textmate and a repl for the longest time because I was put off 
by the intricacies of emacs.. and then I found this:

https://github.com/overtone/emacs-live

and the tutorial that recommended it

http://www.vijaykiran.com/2012/01/11/web-application-development-with-clojure-part-1/

It's great. I'm completely sold on emacs.. On any computer, I install 
emacs, install lein, run one command: 

$ git clone https://github.com/overtone/emacs-live ~/emacs.d 

Now I have everything I need to develop in clojure like hinting, 
autocomplete and docs. Most importantly, it has a black background and 
fluro text by default. NO CUSTOMISATIONS!

I remember how difficult it was for me as a complete newbie coming into the 
language. Thinking in a functional style was hard enough, let alone trying 
to get swank working and then frustrating over every aspect of emacs 
banging my head against the wall would have been more productive.

It was so frusting because I just wanted something that worked and a bunch 
of tutorials that showed me how to get started. Things like autocomplete 
and documentation are essential for learning the concepts quickly. Its only 
recently that a spate of them has come out for the joe programmer and its 
really good to see that happening. 

My 2 cents:
 - New users don't want complication. Give them one 'product' to start off 
with and then slowly introduce them to more concepts later

 - Videos and Tutorials are a must. Its not about showing off about look 
how short I can make my code man... Its about helping others see a new way 
to think about the problem. The only way to do that besides sitting down 
with them is through tutorials. Longer tutorials and demonstrations that 
work through a complete problem are more helpful than short ones that are 
demonstrating the 'feature.. Hats off in particular to Brian Marick 
(http://vimeo.com/19404746), Chas Emerick 
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVd4ow-ZcX0), and Phil Hagelburg 
(https://peepcode.com/products/functional-programming-with-clojure) for 
taking the time to show the world how they worked through a 'real-world' 
problem.

So basically, if a 'lead clojure evangelist' can either 'officially' or 
'unofficially' recommend ONE emacs setup, along with a bunch of 
videos/tutorials that demonstrate how to code and how fast it is to design 
and code using the repl. Then that be enough to get people at least 
interested. 

Expanding on that idea, If there were a set of peepcode-like 1 to 1.5h 
tutorials for clojure and its libraries (an episode on ring, an episode on 
agents futures and watches, an episode on incanter, an episode on writing a 
dsl, an episode on aleph..., an episode on writing a clojurescript 
application and also doing 'play-by-play' videos with top clojure 
developers), I'm sure newbies are going to take up the language much faster 
because they will have the crutches to allow them to explore the clojure 
landscape without worrying about how to go about entering text into 
a arcane text-editor.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

2012-06-20 Thread László Török

+1, I had the same experience as Chris, lot of frustration until I found
Emacs-live
On Jun 20, 2012 1:54 PM, Chris Zheng zcaud...@gmail.com wrote:

 I was using textmate and a repl for the longest time because I was put off
 by the intricacies of emacs.. and then I found this:

 https://github.com/overtone/emacs-live

 and the tutorial that recommended it


 http://www.vijaykiran.com/2012/01/11/web-application-development-with-clojure-part-1/

 It's great. I'm completely sold on emacs.. On any computer, I install
 emacs, install lein, run one command:

 $ git clone https://github.com/overtone/emacs-live ~/emacs.d

 Now I have everything I need to develop in clojure like hinting,
 autocomplete and docs. Most importantly, it has a black background and
 fluro text by default. NO CUSTOMISATIONS!

 I remember how difficult it was for me as a complete newbie coming into
 the language. Thinking in a functional style was hard enough, let alone
 trying to get swank working and then frustrating over every aspect of
 emacs banging my head against the wall would have been more productive.

 It was so frusting because I just wanted something that worked and a bunch
 of tutorials that showed me how to get started. Things like autocomplete
 and documentation are essential for learning the concepts quickly. Its only
 recently that a spate of them has come out for the joe programmer and its
 really good to see that happening.

 My 2 cents:
  - New users don't want complication. Give them one 'product' to start off
 with and then slowly introduce them to more concepts later

  - Videos and Tutorials are a must. Its not about showing off about look
 how short I can make my code man... Its about helping others see a new way
 to think about the problem. The only way to do that besides sitting down
 with them is through tutorials. Longer tutorials and demonstrations that
 work through a complete problem are more helpful than short ones that are
 demonstrating the 'feature.. Hats off in particular to Brian Marick (
 http://vimeo.com/19404746), Chas Emerick (
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VVd4ow-ZcX0), and Phil Hagelburg (
 https://peepcode.com/products/functional-programming-with-clojure) for
 taking the time to show the world how they worked through a 'real-world'
 problem.

 So basically, if a 'lead clojure evangelist' can either 'officially' or
 'unofficially' recommend ONE emacs setup, along with a bunch of
 videos/tutorials that demonstrate how to code and how fast it is to design
 and code using the repl. Then that be enough to get people at least
 interested.

 Expanding on that idea, If there were a set of peepcode-like 1 to 1.5h
 tutorials for clojure and its libraries (an episode on ring, an episode on
 agents futures and watches, an episode on incanter, an episode on writing a
 dsl, an episode on aleph..., an episode on writing a clojurescript
 application and also doing 'play-by-play' videos with top clojure
 developers), I'm sure newbies are going to take up the language much faster
 because they will have the crutches to allow them to explore the clojure
 landscape without worrying about how to go about entering text into
 a arcane text-editor.

  --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
 Groups Clojure group.
 To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
 Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with
 your first post.
 To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
 clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
 For more options, visit this group at
 http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

2012-06-20 Thread John Gabriele

On Jun 18, 10:23 pm, Chris Zheng zcaud...@gmail.com wrote:
 I was using textmate and a repl for the longest time because I was put off
 by the intricacies of emacs.. and then {snip}

 Now I have everything I need to develop in clojure like hinting,
 autocomplete and docs. Most importantly, it has a black background and
 fluro text by default. NO CUSTOMISATIONS!

Sometimes you need to spend time with an editor + repl to see the
value in something more sophisticated.

Also, I suppose sometimes you end up sticking with the editor + repl
anyway. :)

 {snip}
 So basically, if a 'lead clojure evangelist' can either 'officially' or
 'unofficially' recommend ONE emacs setup, along with a bunch of
 videos/tutorials that demonstrate how to code and how fast it is to design
 and code using the repl. Then that be enough to get people at least
 interested.

People are very opinionated about their editor/IDE. I think the Getting
+Started docs are good --- they separate:

  * if you want just Emacs plus the repl, here you go (clojure-mode
readme)
  * if you want Emacs + inferior-lisp, do this (this doc needs work)
  * if you want Emacs + swank/slime, do this (swank-clojure readme)

and of course also info on Eclipse, Clooj, and other editors/ide's as
well.

But I certainly agree with you that screencasts/videos/tutorials for
each of those are very useful. Categorized links to such presentations
are just what wiki's are good at providing. I don't know what the
attitude is toward links like that on the confluence wiki, but I hope
they're welcomed. It's not so bad keeping links on wiki's up to date.
Now keeping full docs coherent in wikis is another matter ... :)

---John

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

2012-06-16 Thread fenton



 Sorry to be an absolute pain, but could we not have a single page that
 has (almost everything) that a newbie might want to know.  Can't we be
 a bit opinionated, like: 

 editor: emacs
 builder: leiningen
 repl: swank
 emacs packages: clojure-mode, paredit, highlight-parens, autocomplete, 
 ac-slime

 Newbies don't want choices for options they don't understand.  Can we
 decide on a canonical (or several canonical) solutions.  Like
 packaging.  When they get more advanced and want to swap components
 out, great.  Maybe clojure-mode isn't the place for this.  Can we
 create a repo that is for this type of thing?  By we I mean Phil or
 Sean, since you guys are known to the community.  I picture a single
 page for each of these canonical setups, so the user doesn't have to
 click somewhere else.  A page that brings it all together.  People go
 buy books for this type of thing.  They don't want the book saying:
 Now go buy this other book for this step in the process.

 What I'm really asking for is does the community (anyone) see value in 
 this type of thing, and if so can we create a github repo dedicated to the 
 purpose?


-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

2012-06-16 Thread Sean Corfield

On Sat, Jun 16, 2012 at 8:49 AM, fenton fenton.trav...@gmail.com wrote:
 Sorry to be an absolute pain, but could we not have a single page that
 has (almost everything) that a newbie might want to know.  Can't we be
 a bit opinionated, like:

This has been discussed at length on several occasions and - whilst
many Clojurians end up with Emacs / Leiningen / Swank - the consensus
seems to be that is unreasonable as a first experience of Clojure.
Hence the Getting Started page suggests Try Clojure (no install at
all), Clooj, Leiningen and only then does it talk about IDEs.

For folks coming from a Java world, Eclipse or IntelliJ is going to be
a better experience than Emacs. For folks coming from Ruby or Python,
Leiningen and TextMate/Sublime Text 2 is probably the best
introductory experience (although there's no longer a page covering
those editors). Or vim.

For all Emacs' power, making it the default choice for newbies is
going to create a huge barrier to entry for people coming to Clojure.

 Newbies don't want choices for options they don't understand.

The current Getting Started page is a vast simplification from what
was there before - and is the result of several rounds of refinement
by the community, with a lot of input from Clojure newbies.

 What I'm really asking for is does the community (anyone) see value in
 this type of thing, and if so can we create a github repo dedicated to the
 purpose?

It might be useful to go back thru the list archives and read some of
the getting started threads that have got us where we are today. We
can definitely improve the documentation around Getting Started but
gaining consensus on how to do that has not proved easy so far :)
-- 
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/

Perfection is the enemy of the good.
-- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880)

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

2012-06-16 Thread fenton



 So if someone wants to setup the best environment for developing
 clojure, like serious Java developers who want to make clojure their
 new home, the community doesn't think having a single page for those
 people to use to setup their environment, as a good idea?

 There should be several one stop shops.  A single page where someone
 can go to, to setup their whole system.  I'm already maintaining this
 for emacs/clojure-mode/leiningen, etc...

 I don't think having this all over the zoo is a great idea, it's a
 good idea, but should be supplemented by the above.

 Phil, objects, because he see's the duplication...totally fair
 comment, but there are different needs, that aren't met by just having
 lein/clojure-more/marmelade, etc... all in their respective homes.

 Initially, I asked if posting links to the docs I was writing was
 socially acceptable, and now I think it is, and will continue to do
 what I am doing, I think it has a lot of value.  Sure it has problems,
 duplicate data, etc..., but it also has a lot of value too I think.

 Shall I clone clojure-mode, and update that doc you referenced to have
 stuff about Leiningen? ...and all the other things...I'm happy to do
 that.  However, I suspect, this argument around: single source of
 truth, and having fragmented getting started scenario, is a little
 intractable.  I think you have to live with the fact that you'll have
 somewhere that pulls together single sources of truth to package them
 in a way that is targetted at certain users.

 This is a typical problem that constantly crops up all over the
 place.  The best way would be for each section to be function that you
 referenced and it got included inline, then people could mix and match
 each section they needed to create documents that were nothing but
 references back to the single source of truth.

 However, until we get to a place like that, people are going to opt
 for copying information (that will go stale).  Heck often the single
 source of truth is out of date!

 What I'd suggest is that a git repo gets openned for this purpose.
 Make contributing easy.  

 Until someone in the community does that, I'll tool away at creating
 docs that I need and I think can benefit others.  Should I not post
 them into the clojure group, because maybe they can confuse people
 from the official docs?  No, I don't think so, but I should reference
 back to the official docs in my docs.  I think that is a reasonable
 alternative.

 I know someone suggested I try to keep up the docs that are already in
 place, but I'm not super comfortable with that.  1 - they are just
 fragments that I try to understand, and I'm not really the best person
 to understand and document those things I think.  I do better by just
 putting what little I have succeeded (relatively speaking) down and
 then having pros like Phil or whoever tell me where I'm doing things
 wrong/stupidly, like he already did.  Thats about all the value I can
 add at this point.


-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

2012-06-15 Thread fenton

What I'd suggest is that there be a git repo for clojure docs, where things 
can be brought together like the types of articles i'm writing, but tended 
by the clojure community.  So i wouldn't suggest putting: Getting started 
with emacs (for clojure) sic. in the clojure-mode repo, but perhaps a git 
repo, owned by yourself or Rich or something, could be created where you 
can pull contributions into.  Then I could clone that repo, make changes 
and submit pull requests to you, which you could then reject with comments 
or approve, and then pull the changes into that repo.  Possible?  Others c 
this having value?  What are the issues with this approach?

On Thursday, June 14, 2012 4:12:10 PM UTC-7, Phil Hagelberg wrote:

 On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 2:09 PM, fenton fenton.trav...@gmail.com wrote 
  I'm not going to give up the wonderful prettiness that github does with 
 a 
  line like: 
  
  ```clojure 
  (defn myfunc [x] (+ 2 x)) 
  ``` 
  
  which i can't do with confluence.  This group is about a programming 
  language, nice colorizing is really great for documentation. 

 Hmm... while I agree that Confluence is bad for this sort of thing, I 
 don't see the Clojure maintainers changing their mind and accepting 
 pull requests since they've been pretty staunchly opposed to them for 
 ages. 

 However, I would be perfectly happy moving the Getting Started with 
 Emacs tutorial into the clojure-mode repository and changing the 
 Confluence wiki page to point to there. The Getting Started with 
 Leiningen page already points off to Github, and I think we're likely 
 to get higher quality contributions that way. I'll put it on my todo 
 list, but if you're interested in helping a pull request would make it 
 happen more quickly. 

 thanks, 
 Phil 


-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

2012-06-15 Thread Sean Corfield

On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 11:28 PM, fenton fenton.trav...@gmail.com wrote:
 What I'd suggest is that there be a git repo for clojure docs, where things
 can be brought together like the types of articles i'm writing, but tended
 by the clojure community.

Phil has streamlined
http://dev.clojure.org/display/doc/Getting+Started+with+Emacs and now
all the actual documentation is in the clojure-mode repo (and the
swank-clojure repo - for SLIME/Swank setup). That means anyone can
fork, update and send a pull request.
-- 
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/

Perfection is the enemy of the good.
-- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880)

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

2012-06-14 Thread David Della Costa

Just saw this thread.  I went through something similar recently: I'm
a long-time emacs user just getting into Clojure, so naturally I set
it up with emacs.  I set it up with Leiningen (a 2.0.0 preview
version), and while I found it relatively painless, I did have a few
problems mostly with Emacs.  I think the stuff about getting
sidetracked with emacs configuration/package-management is pretty
true; it's very easy to get lost in the emacs wilderness, which is
much hoarier than Clojure.

I also think that, at present, while coming in through Leiningen is
definitely the most painless way to do things (I'm really loving it
actually, as a Ruby dev it kind of seems like rvm + bundler + rake all
wrapped up in one handy package), trying to navigate whether to use
1.x or 2.x preview is a bit confusing--and the variety of docs
available for setting things up is confusing.  Similarly, it's easy to
get lost (as a beginner) between namespace issues with packages and
how to set things up properly with Leiningen.  It'd be good to have
some documentation on that.

Getting testing up and running with midje was also a bit of a
challenge--I still haven't figured out how to get automated testing
going smoothly in emacs with the nice midje stuff Mr. Marick has
added, but I'll go back and tackle that some day.  At the least, I
finally got testing working via lein.

And at the danger of digressing wildly, as a beginner namespace and
file loading stuff is really hard to wrap my head around, but that
could be my own particular weakness.

All of that said, maybe I'll take a look at the docs and see if I can
add anything constructive, since I've set it up now a few times on
Macs.

In any case, I'm really loving playing with Clojure.  I hope to start
sneaking it into some real applications at work this year, and infect
some other devs with the Clojure bug...

Cheers,
Dave D.

2012/6/14 Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.com:
 On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 6:27 PM, fenton fenton.trav...@gmail.com wrote:
 I totally understand the value of having a single source of truth (DRY
 principle).  My main problem was that to get from 0-60 for doing clojure
 development is quite challenging.

 Which is why the official documentations needs contributions from
 folks who've gone thru this process recently... It's a bit of a
 chicken and egg situation: if the current docs aren't good enough,
 folks go off into the Internet wilderness and try to piece together
 the experience themselves. And then what they go thru often doesn't
 even come close to what _should_ be in the official documentation as
 the simplest solution. And of course we each typically only set up one
 machine (our own) so we don't have much incentive to repeat the
 process over and over to refine it for the official documentation. I
 sympathize with the process you've gone thru. I went thru it too. I
 created this document for Emacs + Leiningen on Windows -
 http://corfield.org/articles/emacs_win.html - and I have not
 publicized it because it's already out of date. And that was the third
 time I'd been thru the process: first on Mac, then on Ubuntu, then
 Windows XP.

 I had a major piss around trying to get the marmelade repo working.
  Finally, someone suggested emacs 24, which itself is fairly hard to find
 without a link to alpa.

 The kind folks on #clojure on IRC ensured I started with a prerelease
 of Emacs 24 which helped. Emacs 24 is now the current stable version,
 which makes discovery much easier.

 So say I start at: http://marmalade-repo.org/, well then it says: Install
 package.el, it doesn't say how to install package.el, so now I gotta google

 Yup, that was my initial complaint.

 I still don't know if I
 need both clojure and clojure-contrib in my project.clj files or not.  They
 are different versions, should they be in sync?

 Monolithic Clojure Contrib was deprecated when Clojure 1.3 appeared
 and is no longer maintained. See
 http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Where+Did+Clojure.Contrib+Go

 I did find myself getting a bit angry writing this, because I'd really like
 to see clojure displace java, but I think its fair to say that there is a
 gap in helping people who have little
 emacs/clojure/leiningen/swank/slime/cdt/lisp exposure getting on board.

 Yup. This complaint is very valid and comes up fairly regularly, and
 each time the official documentation gets a bit better (but it still
 has a long way to go).

 I think github is a better place to document this stuff than confluence.

 The Clojure project uses JIRA / Confluence for issue tracking and
 documentation - and Github for code. Pull requests are not allowed.
 See http://clojure.org/contributing and http://clojure.org/patches -
 also see 
 http://dev.clojure.org/display/doc/Guidelines+for+Clojure+Contrib+committers
 for the mechanics of getting onboard as a contributor and getting your
 accounts / permissions set up.

 We definitely need improvements in the official getting started
 documentation.

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

2012-06-14 Thread John Gabriele

On Jun 13, 10:58 pm, Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 7:45 PM, Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.com wrote:
  We definitely need improvements in the official getting started
  documentation. Starting here -
 http://dev.clojure.org/display/doc/Getting+Started- any specific
  problems / improvements that folks identify will generally get fixed
  fairly quickly if they're brought up on this list. There are a couple
  of list members who are pretty motivated around improving the newbie
  experience...

 And of course the official clojure-mode and swank-clojure
 documentation *is* on Github so fork/update/pull request is the
 natural workflow there.

 The information in the comments 
 onhttp://dev.clojure.org/display/doc/Getting+Started+with+Emacsneeds to
 be folded into the main instructions (and the comments deleted, IMO,
 since they just add to the noise and confusion).

 The page should start with links to install the current stable version
 of Emacs for Windows, Linux, Mac. The latest version of swank-clojure
 should be referenced (1.4.2).

It's difficult to keep wiki docs nice and up-to-date.

Writing good (and concise) docs is hard work.

Some potential contributors may not want to go through the time to
register and send in the CCA (or whatever the confluence wiki
requires).

Others may not want to take the time to contribute a magnum opus to
the wiki because they're not crazy about the idea of someone coming
around after them and making sweeping changes to their work.

I know I like to keep my own magnum opi sequestered off in my own docs
directory (for example, 
http://www.unexpected-vortices.com/clojure/10-minute-emacs-for-clojure.html
).

Wiki's have a tendency to become cluttered and disorganized. Same with
individual wiki pages, for that matter.

A great strength of wikis is that there's a lot of eyeballs that can
(or should be able to) easily fix typos  broken-links, update out-of-
date links, and so on.

IMO:

* core docs should be a focused set of .md files that contributors
work on by cloning, editing, and sending pull-requests.

* wiki docs should be easy to contribute to and should encourage links
to outside docs (though, include last-modified dates for those!).
Users can sort out which external articles and blog-posts are most
useful, which can then bubble to the top, so to speak.

Just my 2¢.

---John

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

2012-06-14 Thread Phil Hagelberg

On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 8:01 PM, David Della Costa
ddellaco...@gmail.com wrote:
I also think that, at present, while coming in through Leiningen is
definitely the most painless way to do things (I'm really loving it
actually, as a Ruby dev it kind of seems like rvm + bundler + rake all
wrapped up in one handy package), trying to navigate whether to use
1.x or 2.x preview is a bit confusing--and the variety of docs
available for setting things up is confusing.

Yeah, as of the last release we're pretty much advising everyone to go
with 2.x, but the docs still need to be updated to reflect that. What
are some of the confusing docs you mention? Most people have said the
install process is pretty simple.

Similarly, it's easy to
get lost (as a beginner) between namespace issues with packages and
how to set things up properly with Leiningen. It'd be good to have
some documentation on that.

Maybe if the Leiningen tutorial linked to
http://blog.8thlight.com/colin-jones/2010/12/05/clojure-libs-and-namespaces-require-use-import-and-ns.html?

All of that said, maybe I'll take a look at the docs and see if I can
add anything constructive, since I've set it up now a few times on
Macs.

That would be great; thanks. We could also use some help improving
http://leiningen.org; it's pretty messy right now.

-Phil

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

2012-06-14 Thread fenton

I like the idea of taking care of copyright properly, thanks Sean for the
links to those pages. I think the black and white split, docs =
confluence, code = github, is not so good. I think John's point about the
*.md files being a very good place for documentation. I think the right
way to do the documentation is like this:

1 - github with *.md.
2 - take care of copyright like you are now.
3 - have a trusted person be the owner of the repo...Phil/Sean or someone
else like that.
4 - let folks clone, edit and then send pull requests back to the site
owner.

my personal approach would be to give commit access to whoever seemed
reasonable, though I know that freaks some people out.

I'm not going to give up the wonderful prettiness that github does with a
line like:

```clojure
(defn myfunc [x] (+ 2 x))
```

which i can't do with confluence. This group is about a programming
language, nice colorizing is really great for documentation.

I think having directed tutorials one for each of mac/linux/windows. Then
these tutorials should go start to finish with the canonical implementation
for that platform. Yes emacs is very weird for newbies, but most
clojurians use it. There are reasons why they use it, and as long as we
can have good docs around these things, then its okay. It's like
standardization. I can sympathize with the concept of only teaching one
thing at a time. I totally agree with that. But I also am not a big fan
of teaching people something that they'd then throw away.

If anyone wants commit permissions to my repo, just send me your github
name, and I'll add u. I'd prefer that the clojure community took up some
documentation inside of github with *.md files and that repo used instead,
obviously tho.

Cheers.

On Thursday, June 14, 2012 10:31:44 AM UTC-7, Phil Hagelberg wrote:

Similarly, it's easy to
get lost (as a beginner) between namespace issues with packages and
how to set things up properly with Leiningen. It'd be good to have
some documentation on that.

Maybe if the Leiningen tutorial linked to

http://blog.8thlight.com/colin-jones/2010/12/05/clojure-libs-and-namespaces-require-use-import-and-ns.html?

All of that said, maybe I'll take a look at the docs and see if I can
add anything constructive, since I've set it up now a few times on
Macs.

That would be great; thanks. We could also use some help improving
http://leiningen.org; it's pretty messy right now.

-Phil

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

2012-06-14 Thread Phil Hagelberg

On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 2:09 PM, fenton fenton.trav...@gmail.com wrote
 I'm not going to give up the wonderful prettiness that github does with a
 line like:

 ```clojure
 (defn myfunc [x] (+ 2 x))
 ```

 which i can't do with confluence.  This group is about a programming
 language, nice colorizing is really great for documentation.

Hmm... while I agree that Confluence is bad for this sort of thing, I
don't see the Clojure maintainers changing their mind and accepting
pull requests since they've been pretty staunchly opposed to them for
ages.

However, I would be perfectly happy moving the Getting Started with
Emacs tutorial into the clojure-mode repository and changing the
Confluence wiki page to point to there. The Getting Started with
Leiningen page already points off to Github, and I think we're likely
to get higher quality contributions that way. I'll put it on my todo
list, but if you're interested in helping a pull request would make it
happen more quickly.

thanks,
Phil

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

2012-06-14 Thread Tim Jones

On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 10:31:44AM -0700, Phil Hagelberg wrote:

 On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 8:01 PM, David Della Costa
 ddellaco...@gmail.com wrote:
  Similarly, it's easy to
  get lost (as a beginner) between namespace issues with packages and
  how to set things up properly with Leiningen.  It'd be good to have
  some documentation on that.
 
 Maybe if the Leiningen tutorial linked to
 http://blog.8thlight.com/colin-jones/2010/12/05/clojure-libs-and-namespaces-require-use-import-and-ns.html?

I'm new to SLIME and spent about a day before I figured out C-x M-p to switch 
namespaces within a project.

Tim



-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

2012-06-14 Thread Korny Sietsma

Yes emacs is very weird for newbies, but most clojurians use it.

I tend to think this is an unnecessary barrier for entry - yes, people
would be more productive in the long run using emacs, but it has it's own
big learning curve, and is definitely not necessary to get started in
clojure. It's great to have comprehensive instructions for people who want
the full power of emacs - but we should also make sure there are clear
getting started instructions for people who are happy with a smart text
editor and a repl.

- Korny

On 15 June 2012 07:09, fenton fenton.trav...@gmail.com wrote:

my personal approach would be to give commit access to whoever seemed
reasonable, though I know that freaks some people out.

I'm not going to give up the wonderful prettiness that github does with a
line like:

```clojure
(defn myfunc [x] (+ 2 x))
```

which i can't do with confluence. This group is about a programming
language, nice colorizing is really great for documentation.

Cheers.

On Thursday, June 14, 2012 10:31:44 AM UTC-7, Phil Hagelberg wrote:

Similarly, it's easy to
get lost (as a beginner) between namespace issues with packages and
how to set things up properly with Leiningen. It'd be good to have
some documentation on that.

Maybe if the Leiningen tutorial linked to
http://blog.8thlight.com/**colin-jones/2010/12/05/**
clojure-libs-and-namespaces-**require-use-import-and-ns.htmlhttp://blog.8thlight.com/colin-jones/2010/12/05/clojure-libs-and-namespaces-require-use-import-and-ns.html
**?

All of that said, maybe I'll take a look at the docs and see if I can
add anything constructive, since I've set it up now a few times on
Macs.

That would be great; thanks. We could also use some help improving
http://leiningen.org; it's pretty messy right now.

-Phil

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with
your first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en

--
Kornelis Sietsma korny at my surname dot com http://korny.info
We do not quit playing because we grow old, we grow old because we quit
playing - O.W. Holmes

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

2012-06-14 Thread Sean Corfield

On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 6:52 PM, Korny Sietsma ko...@sietsma.com wrote:
  It's great to have comprehensive instructions for people who want the full
 power of emacs - but we should also make sure there are clear getting
 started instructions for people who are happy with a smart text editor and
 a repl.

And the Getting Started page suggests that:
http://dev.clojure.org/display/doc/Getting+Started
-- 
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/

Perfection is the enemy of the good.
-- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880)

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

2012-06-14 Thread David Della Costa

Hey Phil, thanks for the response.

trying to navigate whether to use
1.x or 2.x preview is a bit confusing--and the variety of docs
available for setting things up is confusing.

To be fair, I probably had problems based on how I am used to using
github rather than any failure of the docs. The actual process is
simple, you are right. I was trying to set up 2.0.0 preview but the
docs focus(ed) on the 1.x version, and it wasn't quite clear how that
worked at the time I set it up (a few weeks ago)--the link wasn't
obvious, and when pulling from git I wasn't sure what version I was
getting. And in any case I see that someone updated the Leiningen
readme on github to promote 2.x first and foremost since last time I
checked: nice. That should help if anyone has confusion similar to
mine, so this is probably moot.

The variety of docs just refers to all the random tutorials out there
if you do a Google search. Again, not really fair to compare to the
official Leiningen docs, which are pretty helpful.

More generally, I think a certain amount of this is unavoidable; newbs
will always be confused, there will always be a variety of conflicting
third-party tutorials available for any framework, and transitioning
from one major version to the next is always painful. So I expect
this will smooth out as the community continues to grow and get more
folks coming in.

Similarly, it's easy to
get lost (as a beginner) between namespace issues with packages and
how to set things up properly with Leiningen. It'd be good to have
some documentation on that.

Maybe if the Leiningen tutorial linked to
http://blog.8thlight.com/colin-jones/2010/12/05/clojure-libs-and-namespaces-require-use-import-and-ns.html?

Warning, digression: you know, I read that, and I still find the
differences between use and require confusing. I have to go back and
re-read it, and practice more. But, for example, I had trouble
figuring out how to include new directories so that midje test files
were picked up in my lein projects, with properly named namespaces.
There is probably a smart and Clojure-esque way to handle all of this.
But I found it hard to figure out at first, and I think I'm still not
doing it right--I'm using the load-file function, which doesn't really
have anything to do with namespaces.

Again, I apologize, I know that was a digression. In fact, I like
slogging through things and figuring out the best practices in
somewhat indirect ways, getting that aha moment when something I
read a month ago finally clicks, like I expect Mr. Jones' article to
do at some point. But I also realize not everyone has that level of
patience...or perhaps more accurately, masochism.

All of that said, maybe I'll take a look at the docs and see if I can
add anything constructive, since I've set it up now a few times on
Macs.

That would be great; thanks. We could also use some help improving
http://leiningen.org; it's pretty messy right now.

Cool, I'll see what I can contribute!

-Phil

A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

2012-06-13 Thread fenton

https://github.com/ftravers/PublicDocumentation/blob/master/clojure-development-setup.md

An index to other clojure tutorials:

https://github.com/ftravers/PublicDocumentation/blob/master/clojure-index.md

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

2012-06-13 Thread Phil Hagelberg

On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 12:33 PM, fenton fenton.trav...@gmail.com wrote:
 https://github.com/ftravers/PublicDocumentation/blob/master/clojure-development-setup.md

Have you considered evaluating the official documentation and
improving it so that effort goes to a place in which it can be updated
by others in the future?

-Phil

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

2012-06-13 Thread fenton

Sure would love to.  Could you point me to the right location?  

Here:

http://clojuredocs.org/  ?

or here:

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Clojure_Programming  ?

or somewhere else?

On Wednesday, June 13, 2012 1:13:20 PM UTC-7, Phil Hagelberg wrote:

 On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 12:33 PM, fenton  wrote: 
  
 https://github.com/ftravers/PublicDocumentation/blob/master/clojure-development-setup.md
  

 Have you considered evaluating the official documentation and 
 improving it so that effort goes to a place in which it can be updated 
 by others in the future? 

 -Phil 


-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

2012-06-13 Thread fenton

Or likely you mean here:

http://dev.clojure.org/display/doc/Getting+Started+with+Emacs

I'm not sure I can edit this page???  Seems to only leave comments there.

On Wednesday, June 13, 2012 12:33:38 PM UTC-7, fenton wrote:


 https://github.com/ftravers/PublicDocumentation/blob/master/clojure-development-setup.md

 An index to other clojure tutorials:


 https://github.com/ftravers/PublicDocumentation/blob/master/clojure-index.md


On Wednesday, June 13, 2012 12:33:38 PM UTC-7, fenton wrote:


 https://github.com/ftravers/PublicDocumentation/blob/master/clojure-development-setup.md

 An index to other clojure tutorials:


 https://github.com/ftravers/PublicDocumentation/blob/master/clojure-index.md


-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

2012-06-13 Thread Phil Hagelberg

On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 1:58 PM, fenton fenton.trav...@gmail.com wrote:
 Or likely you mean here:

 http://dev.clojure.org/display/doc/Getting+Started+with+Emacs

 I'm not sure I can edit this page???  Seems to only leave comments there.

I think that's the best place for an overview. Unfortunately edits are
restricted to people who have mailed in a Contributors Agreement.

Documentation for each individual piece should go in the appropriate
project: rather than explain how to install Leiningen it would be
better to link to its documentation so it can be updated for
consistency when things change. For instance, your document doesn't
mention Leiningen 2, encourages the use of monolithic contrib, and
says that Emacs 24 hasn't been released yet.

The exception here is the documentation for Emacs itself; it's a very
slow-moving project with a lot of political baggage, which is why
general how to use a 3rd-party package source stuff is currently on
the Confluence wiki.

 I'm not exactly sure how I should contribute.

Identifying what it is you found lacking in the official docs would be
a great place to start. Pointing people to the official
dev.clojure.org docs also helps.

-Phil

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

2012-06-13 Thread fenton

I totally understand the value of having a single source of truth (DRY 
principle).  My main problem was that to get from 0-60 for doing clojure 
development is quite challenging.

Say you want to do what my document describes, that is setup Leiningen, 
setup emacs, etc..., it took me weeks to get it working.  That is going to 
turn off a lot of people who'd like to get started.

I'm sure I've made many misguided recommendations, I'm a newbie myself. 
 But I've been tasked to help other people get on board with Clojure and I 
need to be able to send them to one link.

I had a major piss around trying to get the marmelade repo working. 
 Finally, someone suggested emacs 24, which itself is fairly hard to find 
without a link to alpa.

So say I start at: http://marmalade-repo.org/, well then it says: Install 
package.el, it doesn't say how to install package.el, so now I gotta 
google that.  So say eventually I figure that out.  Well it says to add it 
to your ~/.emacs.  I was helping someone out the other day, and in their 
instance it needed to go into ~/.emacs.d/init.el.  Another face plant. 
 Then if they aren't on emacs 24, there is a chance that their 23 won't 
load more than one repo, that happened to me.  Face plant.  Then I head 
over to lein: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen, well this one is 
better than most install instructions, but still IMO, isn't as simple to 
follow as my instructions.  Which I'd agree I should update to use Lein 2. 
 However it doesn't talk about the dependencies of Lein, like rlwrap, since 
understandably that is out of scope, but for a newbie, it's darn handy to 
have that stuff.  Say you were running the jre instead of the jdk, which I 
was, and my swank-cdt debugger wasn't working, again I have a note for 
that.  Then we get back to marmalade.  The steps to install package.el are 
quite a few.  You should put ~/.emacs.d/ on your load path, you've got to 
(require 'package).  It doesn't mention anything about 
(package-initialize), which seems to be helpful.  Next I want to get 
swank-slime-clojure server going.  Do I need slime?  I don't really know. 
 So I head over to: https://github.com/technomancy/swank-clojure, which is 
not bad, but it doesn't tell me that I have to do a 'lein deps' after I put 
the entry into my emacs.  It doesn't tell me that if I jack-in and then 
modify my project.clj that I need to re-jack-in.  Face plant.  I still 
don't know if I need both clojure and clojure-contrib in my project.clj 
files or not.  They are different versions, should they be in sync?  After 
that I don't even know where I found the info about how to setup my *.clj 
files so that they'd auto load into the REPL after saving them, certainly 
another website.  Did it also have the nice tip that: C-c A-p is what you 
can use to update the namespace in your REPL.  Now I want debugging, off to 
somewhere else.  Here: http://georgejahad.com/clojure/swank-cdt.html.  Well 
it doesn't tell me that swank-clojure is NOT a plugin, but rather a 
dependency.  Face plant.  Didn't help with JDK/JRE issue.

And I'm not even listing all the other issues which would bore anyone on 
this list to tears.  Maybe an appropriate solution is the one you alluded 
to, which is to have a link to the websites I mentioned about at each point 
in the 0-60 doc?

I did find myself getting a bit angry writing this, because I'd really like 
to see clojure displace java, but I think its fair to say that there is a 
gap in helping people who have little 
emacs/clojure/leiningen/swank/slime/cdt/lisp exposure getting on board.  I 
think there is value in reducing that complexity as far as possible to let 
them get going doing some coding.

I think github is a better place to document this stuff than confluence. 
 Confluence just doesn't have the prettifying abilities of github.  Also, 
whats the right solution around contributors, etc...?  Well again git is 
pretty good.  Someone could clone this stuff, put it somewhere legitimate, 
and accept patches to the documentation.  Github also makes it quite 
trivial to share contribution permissions and to manage revisions.

I don't want to piss of the good people of this community that I'd like to 
be accepted into...is that possible?  I hope so. :)

ft

On Wednesday, June 13, 2012 12:33:38 PM UTC-7, fenton wrote:


 https://github.com/ftravers/PublicDocumentation/blob/master/clojure-development-setup.md

 An index to other clojure tutorials:


 https://github.com/ftravers/PublicDocumentation/blob/master/clojure-index.md


-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

2012-06-13 Thread Qiu Xiafei

how about add something about auto completion, it's pretty useful for
working around large project or java interop.

On Thu, Jun 14, 2012 at 9:27 AM, fenton fenton.trav...@gmail.com wrote:

I totally understand the value of having a single source of truth (DRY
principle). My main problem was that to get from 0-60 for doing clojure
development is quite challenging.

Say you want to do what my document describes, that is setup Leiningen,
setup emacs, etc..., it took me weeks to get it working. That is going to
turn off a lot of people who'd like to get started.

I'm sure I've made many misguided recommendations, I'm a newbie myself.
But I've been tasked to help other people get on board with Clojure and I
need to be able to send them to one link.

I had a major piss around trying to get the marmelade repo working.
Finally, someone suggested emacs 24, which itself is fairly hard to find
without a link to alpa.

So say I start at: http://marmalade-repo.org/, well then it says:
Install package.el, it doesn't say how to install package.el, so now I
gotta google that. So say eventually I figure that out. Well it says to
add it to your ~/.emacs. I was helping someone out the other day, and in
their instance it needed to go into ~/.emacs.d/init.el. Another face
plant. Then if they aren't on emacs 24, there is a chance that their 23
won't load more than one repo, that happened to me. Face plant. Then I
head over to lein: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen, well this
one is better than most install instructions, but still IMO, isn't as
simple to follow as my instructions. Which I'd agree I should update to
use Lein 2. However it doesn't talk about the dependencies of Lein, like
rlwrap, since understandably that is out of scope, but for a newbie, it's
darn handy to have that stuff. Say you were running the jre instead of the
jdk, which I was, and my swank-cdt debugger wasn't working, again I have a
note for that. Then we get back to marmalade. The steps to install
package.el are quite a few. You should put ~/.emacs.d/ on your load path,
you've got to (require 'package). It doesn't mention anything about
(package-initialize), which seems to be helpful. Next I want to get
swank-slime-clojure server going. Do I need slime? I don't really know.
So I head over to: https://github.com/technomancy/swank-clojure, which
is not bad, but it doesn't tell me that I have to do a 'lein deps' after I
put the entry into my emacs. It doesn't tell me that if I jack-in and then
modify my project.clj that I need to re-jack-in. Face plant. I still
don't know if I need both clojure and clojure-contrib in my project.clj
files or not. They are different versions, should they be in sync? After
that I don't even know where I found the info about how to setup my *.clj
files so that they'd auto load into the REPL after saving them, certainly
another website. Did it also have the nice tip that: C-c A-p is what you
can use to update the namespace in your REPL. Now I want debugging, off to
somewhere else. Here: http://georgejahad.com/clojure/swank-cdt.html.
Well it doesn't tell me that swank-clojure is NOT a plugin, but rather a
dependency. Face plant. Didn't help with JDK/JRE issue.

And I'm not even listing all the other issues which would bore anyone on
this list to tears. Maybe an appropriate solution is the one you alluded
to, which is to have a link to the websites I mentioned about at each point
in the 0-60 doc?

I did find myself getting a bit angry writing this, because I'd really
like to see clojure displace java, but I think its fair to say that there
is a gap in helping people who have little
emacs/clojure/leiningen/swank/slime/cdt/lisp exposure getting on board. I
think there is value in reducing that complexity as far as possible to let
them get going doing some coding.

I think github is a better place to document this stuff than confluence.
Confluence just doesn't have the prettifying abilities of github. Also,
whats the right solution around contributors, etc...? Well again git is
pretty good. Someone could clone this stuff, put it somewhere legitimate,
and accept patches to the documentation. Github also makes it quite
trivial to share contribution permissions and to manage revisions.

I don't want to piss of the good people of this community that I'd like to
be accepted into...is that possible? I hope so. :)

On Wednesday, June 13, 2012 12:33:38 PM UTC-7, fenton wrote:

https://github.com/ftravers/**PublicDocumentation/blob/**
master/clojure-development-**setup.mdhttps://github.com/ftravers/PublicDocumentation/blob/master/clojure-development-setup.md

An index to other clojure tutorials:

https://github.com/ftravers/**PublicDocumentation/blob/**
master/clojure-index.mdhttps://github.com/ftravers/PublicDocumentation/blob/master/clojure-index.md

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

2012-06-13 Thread Phil Hagelberg

On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 6:27 PM, fenton fenton.trav...@gmail.com wrote:
 Then I head over to
 lein: https://github.com/technomancy/leiningen, well this one is better than
 most install instructions, but still IMO, isn't as simple to follow as my
 instructions.  Which I'd agree I should update to use Lein 2.  However it
 doesn't talk about the dependencies of Lein, like rlwrap, since
 understandably that is out of scope, but for a newbie, it's darn handy to
 have that stuff.

rlwrap is actually only needed for lein1, and if you try to use lein1
without it, it will warn you and tell you that you should install it
when you run it.

 Then we get back to marmalade.  The steps to install package.el are quite a
 few.  You should put ~/.emacs.d/ on your load path, you've got to (require
 'package).  It doesn't mention anything about (package-initialize), which
 seems to be helpful.

The first thing on the dev.clojure.org Emacs page is a link to
clojure-mode that has all these steps in the readme. I've reported an
issue with the Marmalade maintainer about the misleading instructions
on his site, (http://code.google.com/p/marmalade/issues/detail?id=20)
but so far that has been ignored, so this is one place where the
working instructions can't be kept in the canonical place.

 Next I want to get swank-slime-clojure server going.
  Do I need slime?  I don't really know.  So I head over
 to: https://github.com/technomancy/swank-clojure, which is not bad, but it
 doesn't tell me that I have to do a 'lein deps' after I put the entry into
 my emacs.

If you had to do `lein deps` at this point that would be a bug in
Leiningen; it should never be necessary to run that manually. If this
is reproducible can you report it in the issue tracker?

 It doesn't tell me that if I jack-in and then modify my
 project.clj that I need to re-jack-in.  Face plant.  I still don't know if I
 need both clojure and clojure-contrib in my project.clj files or not.

This is another place where people are often mislead by out-of-date
documentation. The official docs have the story:
http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Where+Did+Clojure.Contrib+Go

 I did find myself getting a bit angry writing this, because I'd really like
 to see clojure displace java, but I think its fair to say that there is a
 gap in helping people who have little
 emacs/clojure/leiningen/swank/slime/cdt/lisp exposure getting on board.  I
 think there is value in reducing that complexity as far as possible to let
 them get going doing some coding.

It's also very important not to get people sidetracked into learning
Emacs when they want to learn Clojure. People who know their way
around Emacs can generally figure out how to install packages, but
people who want to learn Clojure need to focus on that and only learn
one thing at a time.

 I think github is a better place to document this stuff than confluence.
 Confluence just doesn't have the prettifying abilities of github.

I agree with this; Confluence is not very good. However, having
documentation under the *.clojure.org umbrella makes it much more
likely to be found.

 I don't want to piss of the good people of this community that I'd like to
 be accepted into...is that possible?  I hope so. :)

I appreciate that you're trying to help. It's just that if you hang
around enough in IRC you find a lot of confused newcomers who are
following out of date information they read on a blog somewhere that
made perfect sense a year ago but is just misleading now. I think a
lot of the pain will be reduced now that Emacs 24 is out, but if there
are other places where the docs need improvement let's focus on that.
It sounds like CDT is one of those places? I don't use it myself, but
the Swank readme probably needs more detailed coverage of it.

-Phil

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

2012-06-13 Thread Sean Corfield

On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 6:27 PM, fenton fenton.trav...@gmail.com wrote:
 I totally understand the value of having a single source of truth (DRY
 principle).  My main problem was that to get from 0-60 for doing clojure
 development is quite challenging.

Which is why the official documentations needs contributions from
folks who've gone thru this process recently... It's a bit of a
chicken and egg situation: if the current docs aren't good enough,
folks go off into the Internet wilderness and try to piece together
the experience themselves. And then what they go thru often doesn't
even come close to what _should_ be in the official documentation as
the simplest solution. And of course we each typically only set up one
machine (our own) so we don't have much incentive to repeat the
process over and over to refine it for the official documentation. I
sympathize with the process you've gone thru. I went thru it too. I
created this document for Emacs + Leiningen on Windows -
http://corfield.org/articles/emacs_win.html - and I have not
publicized it because it's already out of date. And that was the third
time I'd been thru the process: first on Mac, then on Ubuntu, then
Windows XP.

 I had a major piss around trying to get the marmelade repo working.
  Finally, someone suggested emacs 24, which itself is fairly hard to find
 without a link to alpa.

The kind folks on #clojure on IRC ensured I started with a prerelease
of Emacs 24 which helped. Emacs 24 is now the current stable version,
which makes discovery much easier.

 So say I start at: http://marmalade-repo.org/, well then it says: Install
 package.el, it doesn't say how to install package.el, so now I gotta google

Yup, that was my initial complaint.

 I still don't know if I
 need both clojure and clojure-contrib in my project.clj files or not.  They
 are different versions, should they be in sync?

Monolithic Clojure Contrib was deprecated when Clojure 1.3 appeared
and is no longer maintained. See
http://dev.clojure.org/display/design/Where+Did+Clojure.Contrib+Go

 I did find myself getting a bit angry writing this, because I'd really like
 to see clojure displace java, but I think its fair to say that there is a
 gap in helping people who have little
 emacs/clojure/leiningen/swank/slime/cdt/lisp exposure getting on board.

Yup. This complaint is very valid and comes up fairly regularly, and
each time the official documentation gets a bit better (but it still
has a long way to go).

 I think github is a better place to document this stuff than confluence.

The Clojure project uses JIRA / Confluence for issue tracking and
documentation - and Github for code. Pull requests are not allowed.
See http://clojure.org/contributing and http://clojure.org/patches -
also see 
http://dev.clojure.org/display/doc/Guidelines+for+Clojure+Contrib+committers
for the mechanics of getting onboard as a contributor and getting your
accounts / permissions set up.

We definitely need improvements in the official getting started
documentation. Starting here -
http://dev.clojure.org/display/doc/Getting+Started - any specific
problems / improvements that folks identify will generally get fixed
fairly quickly if they're brought up on this list. There are a couple
of list members who are pretty motivated around improving the newbie
experience...
-- 
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/

Perfection is the enemy of the good.
-- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880)

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

2012-06-13 Thread Sean Corfield

On Wed, Jun 13, 2012 at 7:45 PM, Sean Corfield seancorfi...@gmail.com wrote:
 We definitely need improvements in the official getting started
 documentation. Starting here -
 http://dev.clojure.org/display/doc/Getting+Started - any specific
 problems / improvements that folks identify will generally get fixed
 fairly quickly if they're brought up on this list. There are a couple
 of list members who are pretty motivated around improving the newbie
 experience...

And of course the official clojure-mode and swank-clojure
documentation *is* on Github so fork/update/pull request is the
natural workflow there.

The information in the comments on
http://dev.clojure.org/display/doc/Getting+Started+with+Emacs needs to
be folded into the main instructions (and the comments deleted, IMO,
since they just add to the noise and confusion).

The page should start with links to install the current stable version
of Emacs for Windows, Linux, Mac. The latest version of swank-clojure
should be referenced (1.4.2).

The Getting Started with Leiningen page should be updated to cover
Windows and Linux/Mac separately (and therefore deal with wget/curl on
Windows etc, if that's still needed with lein2?).

Part of the frustration stems from it being a bit of a link chase
because there's no one page setup and part stems from various
choices being offered as mostly equal (SLIME vs inferior-lisp; manual
package.el install vs Marmalade; etc). It's all gradually getting
better but newbies are generally the only folks who can provide the
right feedback and they're usually too early in the Clojure adoption
cycle to know how / where to provide that feedback (and often they're
not sure what the docs should say, only that they got into a mess by
following them).
-- 
Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN
An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/
World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/

Perfection is the enemy of the good.
-- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880)

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups Clojure group.
To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com
Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your 
first post.
To unsubscribe from this group, send email to
clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at
http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

Re: A tutorial for how to setup your clojure development environment for: Emacs, Leiningen and Linux.

33 matches

Site Navigation

Mail list logo

Footer information