Re: cider status
Good news for the Marmalade users here! Nic Ferrier has fixed the package upload problem that plagued cider 0.4 and it’s now available for installation from there. -- Cheers, Bozhidar On Tuesday, December 17, 2013 at 12:31 PM, Phillip Lord wrote: > Gary Johnson mailto:gwjoh...@uvm.edu)> writes: > > As another hacker who lives in Emacs, I found the nrepl -> cider transition > > > > to be quite painless. It took me maybe an hour of reading the website docs, > > > > installing/uninstalling packages with package.el, and updating the relevant > > > > sections of my .emacs.d/init.el file. > > > > > Well, it's an interesting opinion, but in to my mind, "an hour of > reading and updating" != "relatively painless". > > > Not to poo-poo on anyone's parade, but it really did seem pretty > > straightforward to me. > > > > > I also had to port my own nrepl dependencies. Only of the unfortunate > things about Emacs is that hook name changes don't get picked up > automatically. > > Still, pain in the ass though it was, hopefully, it should be over. I > think changing the name to distinguish between the protocol and the > environment is no bad thing, even if it was hard work. > > Phil -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: cider status
Gary Johnson writes: > As another hacker who lives in Emacs, I found the nrepl -> cider transition > to be quite painless. It took me maybe an hour of reading the website docs, > installing/uninstalling packages with package.el, and updating the relevant > sections of my .emacs.d/init.el file. Well, it's an interesting opinion, but in to my mind, "an hour of reading and updating" != "relatively painless". > Not to poo-poo on anyone's parade, but it really did seem pretty > straightforward to me. I also had to port my own nrepl dependencies. Only of the unfortunate things about Emacs is that hook name changes don't get picked up automatically. Still, pain in the ass though it was, hopefully, it should be over. I think changing the name to distinguish between the protocol and the environment is no bad thing, even if it was hard work. Phil -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: cider status
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Gary Johnson wrote: > It took me maybe an hour of reading the website docs, > installing/uninstalling packages with package.el, and updating the relevant > sections of my .emacs.d/init.el file. Not to poo-poo on anyone's parade, > but it really did seem pretty straightforward to me. > I thought I read the website docs thoroughly, I thought I uninstalled the proper packages and I thought I edited my .emacs file correctly. But the repl refused to start-up so I returned to nrepl. I am not even remotely an emacs expert, but until this incident I had years of trouble-free emacs/leningen/nrepl/slime/swank use. regards, naipmoro -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: cider status
On Mon, Dec 16, 2013 at 12:27 PM, Gary Johnson wrote: > Just to inject another sample into the population: > > As another hacker who lives in Emacs, I found the nrepl -> cider > transition to be quite painless. It took me maybe an hour of reading the > website docs, installing/uninstalling packages with package.el, and > updating the relevant sections of my .emacs.d/init.el file. Not to poo-poo > on anyone's parade, but it really did seem pretty straightforward to me. > Interesting, isn't it, what emacs users consider to be "quite painless". Users of non-legacy tools tend to set the bar rather higher, needless to say, typically expecting upgrading something (other than the operating system itself) to take a few minutes, tops, with most of that spent doing something else while progress meters (first "downloading", then "installing") crawl to 100% and the result working OOTB without manual config changes or other nursemaiding. > So maybe some of the pain points people are feeling have to do with > general challenges with configuring Emacs rather than specific problems > with following the online cider docs. > That much is quite believable. :) -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: cider status
Just to inject another sample into the population: As another hacker who lives in Emacs, I found the nrepl -> cider transition to be quite painless. It took me maybe an hour of reading the website docs, installing/uninstalling packages with package.el, and updating the relevant sections of my .emacs.d/init.el file. Not to poo-poo on anyone's parade, but it really did seem pretty straightforward to me. So maybe some of the pain points people are feeling have to do with general challenges with configuring Emacs rather than specific problems with following the online cider docs. As a final note, ac-nrepl is documented on the cider page as working with cider. The nrepl-ritz package incompatibility is the only real issue missing from the docs. On the other hand, it's come up repeatedly on this mailing list, so at least some of us are likely to be aware of it at this point. ~Gary On Friday, December 13, 2013 4:04:08 PM UTC-5, Bozhidar Batsov wrote: > > On Friday, December 13, 2013 at 7:17 PM, Sean Corfield wrote: > > On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 11:43 PM, Adrian Mowat > > > wrote: > > Is cider just a new release of nrepl.el or a different thing entirely? > > > Well, it's a "new release" insofar as it's an updated version of > nrepl.el. In order to switch to it, however, you have to remove > nrepl.el _and all packages that depend on it_ (which packages are not > specified in the upgrade instructions so that would be a hit'n'miss > process) > > If someone is not clear it should be improved. I can’t know what problems > people encounter is they don’t tell me. cider has both an issue tracker and > it’s own mailing list. > > , then you install cider.el and then you also have to update > various parts of .emac.d/init.el depending on how you had customized > nrepl. And that part isn't really described in the upgrade > instructions either so that's also pretty hit'n'miss. > > All configuration options are documented in the README, so I’d say > updating the init.el is an easy task. > > > And then you > have to reinstall newer versions of the packages you deleted that > depended on nrepl.el and hope you get versions that depend on cider.el > instead (since there's no way of telling, based solely on their > package description I suspect). > > The list of package dependencies is more informative than a package's name. > > > > And if you use Ritz, that hasn't been updated so you have to stay with > nrepl.el anyway. > > Frankly, I think it was a mistake to rename it and rename various > functions in it, forcing breakage on dependent packages (which have > not changed their names as far as I can tell). > > You’re thinking short term, but you should be thinking long term. Nobody > will remember this transition is a few months. I’m confident that in the > greater scheme of things the rename was a good solution. > > > > I use ac-nrepl and the latest version still says it is for nrepl so > I've no idea whether it will work with cider. I also use nrepl-ritz > > ac-nrepl supports only cider. > > > but I could live without it. My nrepl-related init.el file contains: > > https://www.refheap.com/21729 > > and it's not clear how that would need changing and whether it would > continue to work properly. > > Your eval-in-repl function is obsolete, since similar functionality lives > in cider itself. > I have no idea why you’re modifying clojure-mode’s keymap when you should > be modifying cider-mode’s keymap instead (+ set-ns is bound to a keycombo > by default). Consulting the Changelog would reveal that `nrepl-mode` is now > named `cider-repl-mode` and `nrepl-interaction-mode` is now `cider-mode` > (it’s basically the same in SLIME). The migration is really simple and I > think that people are blowing this problem out of proportion. Of course, I > basically live in Emacs, so this is obviously affecting my POV. Less > experienced Emacs users might find even simple changes challenging. > > And this isn't just for me - my team all has the same base > configuration of Emacs and so we'd have to go thru this switch process > for each team member. > > > As I said previously - if you’re not certain about something you should > stop by either cider’s google group or the GitHub project. :-) > > > -- > Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN > An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ > World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/ > > "Perfection is the enemy of the good." > -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880) > > -- > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Clojure" group. > To post to this group, send email to clo...@googlegroups.com > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with > your first post. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > clojure+u...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > --- > You received this message because you
Re: cider status
Tim Visher writes: >> So, I have used MELPA before, but I found living on the bleeding edge >> for all of my packages is bit painful; the overall stability of my Emacs >> setup dropped considerably. I fear this will remain while many package >> developers use a "dirty head" versioning system (myself included). > > That has completely been my experience. Continuous Deployment > _requires_ Continuous Integration and pretty much all of the emacs > package developers out there don't have the time to do CI correctly so > Continuous Deployment simply equals lots of pain on the users end as > things get broken accidentally. I am not sure that I would say this. Pulling stuff out of people's repos without an understanding of how they use the repo is, I think, the problem. > >> I don't mind doing this for one or two packages where I want bleeding >> edge, but I haven't worked out how to get package.el to pick packages >> from different repos. > > You might consider playing with something that I've had in my > incubator file for awhile: > https://github.com/timvisher/.emacs.d/blob/c8fa14315825f722f9995e8dd1e888c6b81321e9/timvisher/timvisher_incubator.el#L16-L28 > Yeah, that's interesting, although I would be worried about getting duplicates of dependencies. >> I agree with you about problems with marmalade. What we need is a way >> for devs to specify the latest stable version (by commit, branch or tag) >> in their Emacs packages. That would mean that, like marmalade, the >> developer would control which version is considered stable, but could do >> so purely with their VC. Wordpress plugins use something similar. > > I assume you mean something over and above the `Version` ELPA header? > Obviously, that depends on package maintainers following things like > SNAPSHOT versioning (which ELPA doesn't accept) or Semantic Versioning > to tip people off as to what is considered stable. So, the way wordpress use their subversion is that head is dirty, and that tags are stable (not a bad way to do things!). At the same time, though, you put a stable tag into your file. Now, with "Version" it means "the current version", so when you have a dirty head this will point either to a snap version or the next version. With the wordpress approach you know where the head is (because it's, er, the head) and you know what the last stable version was (because you look at the head, and it tells you). > I think the general attitude I'm seeing amongst some of the package > maintainers out there is that the idea of versioning is a farse > because they always intend to maintain stable HEADs so HEAD is as > stable as your ever going to get. That's a shame, but I get the > sentiment. For me, I maintain the sentiment that my version control system is, well, mine. I use it to support my development. I am happy to use it as a distribution system so long as that does not interfere. Github generates releases from tag information. This isn't a bad technique, but works on a repo basis while I maintain all of my emacs in one repo. Phil -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: cider status
> I can’t know what problems people encounter is they don’t tell me. You may ask somebody to test your changes before you publish them. Pardon me in case you did so. It seems like people were not listening. Anyway you should be prepared for this eventuality too and have an undo-scenario. Bost -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: cider status
On Friday, December 13, 2013 at 7:17 PM, Sean Corfield wrote: > On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 11:43 PM, Adrian Mowat (mailto:adrian.mo...@gmail.com)> wrote: > > Is cider just a new release of nrepl.el or a different thing entirely? > > > Well, it's a "new release" insofar as it's an updated version of > nrepl.el. In order to switch to it, however, you have to remove > nrepl.el _and all packages that depend on it_ (which packages are not > specified in the upgrade instructions so that would be a hit'n'miss > process) > > If someone is not clear it should be improved. I can’t know what problems people encounter is they don’t tell me. cider has both an issue tracker and it’s own mailing list. > , then you install cider.el and then you also have to update > various parts of .emac.d/init.el depending on how you had customized > nrepl. And that part isn't really described in the upgrade > instructions either so that's also pretty hit'n'miss. > > All configuration options are documented in the README, so I’d say updating the init.el is an easy task. > And then you > have to reinstall newer versions of the packages you deleted that > depended on nrepl.el and hope you get versions that depend on cider.el > instead (since there's no way of telling, based solely on their > package description I suspect). > > The list of package dependencies is more informative than a package's name. > > And if you use Ritz, that hasn't been updated so you have to stay with > nrepl.el anyway. > > Frankly, I think it was a mistake to rename it and rename various > functions in it, forcing breakage on dependent packages (which have > not changed their names as far as I can tell). > > You’re thinking short term, but you should be thinking long term. Nobody will remember this transition is a few months. I’m confident that in the greater scheme of things the rename was a good solution. > > I use ac-nrepl and the latest version still says it is for nrepl so > I've no idea whether it will work with cider. I also use nrepl-ritz > > ac-nrepl supports only cider. > but I could live without it. My nrepl-related init.el file contains: > > https://www.refheap.com/21729 > > and it's not clear how that would need changing and whether it would > continue to work properly. > > Your eval-in-repl function is obsolete, since similar functionality lives in cider itself. I have no idea why you’re modifying clojure-mode’s keymap when you should be modifying cider-mode’s keymap instead (+ set-ns is bound to a keycombo by default). Consulting the Changelog would reveal that `nrepl-mode` is now named `cider-repl-mode` and `nrepl-interaction-mode` is now `cider-mode` (it’s basically the same in SLIME). The migration is really simple and I think that people are blowing this problem out of proportion. Of course, I basically live in Emacs, so this is obviously affecting my POV. Less experienced Emacs users might find even simple changes challenging. > And this isn't just for me - my team all has the same base > configuration of Emacs and so we'd have to go thru this switch process > for each team member. > > As I said previously - if you’re not certain about something you should stop by either cider’s google group or the GitHub project. :-) > -- > Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN > An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ > World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/ > > "Perfection is the enemy of the good." > -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880) > > -- > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Clojure" group. > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > (mailto:clojure@googlegroups.com) > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your > first post. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > (mailto:clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com) > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google > Groups "Clojure" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/clojure/LTQd2zmy-MY/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > (mailto:clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com). > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You receive
Re: cider status
On Thu, Dec 12, 2013 at 11:43 PM, Adrian Mowat wrote: > Is cider just a new release of nrepl.el or a different thing entirely? Well, it's a "new release" insofar as it's an updated version of nrepl.el. In order to switch to it, however, you have to remove nrepl.el _and all packages that depend on it_ (which packages are not specified in the upgrade instructions so that would be a hit'n'miss process), then you install cider.el and then you also have to update various parts of .emac.d/init.el depending on how you had customized nrepl. And that part isn't really described in the upgrade instructions either so that's also pretty hit'n'miss. And then you have to reinstall newer versions of the packages you deleted that depended on nrepl.el and hope you get versions that depend on cider.el instead (since there's no way of telling, based solely on their package description I suspect). And if you use Ritz, that hasn't been updated so you have to stay with nrepl.el anyway. Frankly, I think it was a mistake to rename it and rename various functions in it, forcing breakage on dependent packages (which have not changed their names as far as I can tell). I use ac-nrepl and the latest version still says it is for nrepl so I've no idea whether it will work with cider. I also use nrepl-ritz but I could live without it. My nrepl-related init.el file contains: https://www.refheap.com/21729 and it's not clear how that would need changing and whether it would continue to work properly. And this isn't just for me - my team all has the same base configuration of Emacs and so we'd have to go thru this switch process for each team member. -- Sean A Corfield -- (904) 302-SEAN An Architect's View -- http://corfield.org/ World Singles, LLC. -- http://worldsingles.com/ "Perfection is the enemy of the good." -- Gustave Flaubert, French realist novelist (1821-1880) -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: cider status
On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 2:43 AM, Adrian Mowat wrote: > > > Is cider just a new release of nrepl.el or a different thing entirely? > The former. Sorry to be a noob, but this is awfully confusing to the uninitiated. > Of course it is -- it's emacs. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: cider status
Hi Phil, On Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 4:57 AM, Phillip Lord wrote: > Bozhidar Batsov writes: >> On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 4:56:05 PM UTC+2, Phillip Lord wrote: >>> I discovered one of the reasons for my issues with stability yesterday. >>> The version of clojure-test-mode on marmalade still depends on nrepl >>> (rather than cider), so, despite my best efforts to remove nrepl.el it >>> was still getting pulled back in. >> >> Marmalade is a huge problem these days - frequent outages, not to mention >> many package uploads (including cider 0.4) got corrupted and Nic hasn't >> been able to figure out what's going on there. >> I'd suggest to everyone to use MELPA for the time being. > > So, I have used MELPA before, but I found living on the bleeding edge > for all of my packages is bit painful; the overall stability of my Emacs > setup dropped considerably. I fear this will remain while many package > developers use a "dirty head" versioning system (myself included). That has completely been my experience. Continuous Deployment _requires_ Continuous Integration and pretty much all of the emacs package developers out there don't have the time to do CI correctly so Continuous Deployment simply equals lots of pain on the users end as things get broken accidentally. > I don't mind doing this for one or two packages where I want bleeding > edge, but I haven't worked out how to get package.el to pick packages > from different repos. You might consider playing with something that I've had in my incubator file for awhile: https://github.com/timvisher/.emacs.d/blob/c8fa14315825f722f9995e8dd1e888c6b81321e9/timvisher/timvisher_incubator.el#L16-L28 > I agree with you about problems with marmalade. What we need is a way > for devs to specify the latest stable version (by commit, branch or tag) > in their Emacs packages. That would mean that, like marmalade, the > developer would control which version is considered stable, but could do > so purely with their VC. Wordpress plugins use something similar. I assume you mean something over and above the `Version` ELPA header? Obviously, that depends on package maintainers following things like SNAPSHOT versioning (which ELPA doesn't accept) or Semantic Versioning to tip people off as to what is considered stable. I think the general attitude I'm seeing amongst some of the package maintainers out there is that the idea of versioning is a farse because they always intend to maintain stable HEADs so HEAD is as stable as your ever going to get. That's a shame, but I get the sentiment. So the responsibility for deciding what is stable or not falls to us, the package users. That's, unfortunately, an area where ELPA is woefully inadequate at this time. We have no way of specifying that we want a particular version of a package. That's a basic requirement of any true dependency management system and for whatever reason the Emacs devs did not deign to include it yet. I, at this point, would be fine with specifying a version _or_ commit depending on what package repo I'm pointing at. Didn't realize I'd rant this morning. :( -- In Christ, Timmy V. http://blog.twonegatives.com/ http://five.sentenc.es/ -- Spend less time on mail -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: cider status
Bozhidar Batsov writes: > On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 4:56:05 PM UTC+2, Phillip Lord wrote: >> >> >> I discovered one of the reasons for my issues with stability yesterday. >> The version of clojure-test-mode on marmalade still depends on nrepl >> (rather than cider), so, despite my best efforts to remove nrepl.el it >> was still getting pulled back in. >> > > Marmalade is a huge problem these days - frequent outages, not to mention > many package uploads (including cider 0.4) got corrupted and Nic hasn't > been able to figure out what's going on there. > I'd suggest to everyone to use MELPA for the time being. So, I have used MELPA before, but I found living on the bleeding edge for all of my packages is bit painful; the overall stability of my Emacs setup dropped considerably. I fear this will remain while many package developers use a "dirty head" versioning system (myself included). I don't mind doing this for one or two packages where I want bleeding edge, but I haven't worked out how to get package.el to pick packages from different repos. I agree with you about problems with marmalade. What we need is a way for devs to specify the latest stable version (by commit, branch or tag) in their Emacs packages. That would mean that, like marmalade, the developer would control which version is considered stable, but could do so purely with their VC. Wordpress plugins use something similar. Phil -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: cider status
nrepl.el was renamed to cider after version 0.2. You should be using cider :-) -- Cheers, Bozhidar On Friday, December 13, 2013 at 9:43 AM, Adrian Mowat wrote: > > > Is cider just a new release of nrepl.el or a different thing entirely? > > Sorry to be a noob, but this is awfully confusing to the uninitiated. > > > > -- > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Clojure" group. > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > (mailto:clojure@googlegroups.com) > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your > first post. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > (mailto:clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com) > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the Google > Groups "Clojure" group. > To unsubscribe from this topic, visit > https://groups.google.com/d/topic/clojure/LTQd2zmy-MY/unsubscribe. > To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > (mailto:clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com). > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: cider status
Is cider just a new release of nrepl.el or a different thing entirely? Sorry to be a noob, but this is awfully confusing to the uninitiated. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: cider status
On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 4:56:05 PM UTC+2, Phillip Lord wrote: > > > I discovered one of the reasons for my issues with stability yesterday. > The version of clojure-test-mode on marmalade still depends on nrepl > (rather than cider), so, despite my best efforts to remove nrepl.el it > was still getting pulled back in. > Marmalade is a huge problem these days - frequent outages, not to mention many package uploads (including cider 0.4) got corrupted and Nic hasn't been able to figure out what's going on there. I'd suggest to everyone to use MELPA for the time being. > > Fun and games! > > Phil > > Phillip Lord > writes: > > > I have tried it a couple of times and keep reverting back to nrepl. One > > of the biggest issues is nrepl-ritz which depends on nrepl and not > > nrepl-client. So switching to cider appears to mean ditching ritz. > -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: cider status
On Wednesday, November 13, 2013 1:50:32 AM UTC+2, Tim Visher wrote: > > While I'm glad to hear that there are users out there for whom cider > is working great, I would still say based on following the project on > GitHub that there are far too many issues being filed based on > function names not being defined etc. to consider the current release > stable. > > I'm fairly certain that those problems are behind us now. > As always, YMMV. > > On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 12:37 PM, Gary Trakhman > > > wrote: > > Stable for me, the only outside tool I use that relies on it is > ac-nrepl, > > but switching the hooks over for cider was painless. > > > > > > On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 12:35 PM, Norman Richards > > > > > > wrote: > >> > >> > >> On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Phillip Lord > >> > wrote: > >>> > >>> I have tried it a couple of times and keep reverting back to nrepl. > One > >>> of the biggest issues is nrepl-ritz which depends on nrepl and not > >>> nrepl-client. So switching to cider appears to mean ditching ritz. > >> > >> > >> Although I don't understand why anyone thought it was a good idea to > >> change package names, I can confirm that for my daily clojure > development, > >> the transition was fairly painless (uninstall/reinstall packages and > update > >> some init.el configuration) and has not caused any problems with the > set of > >> emacs clojure tools I use. (which does not include ritz) I don't > remember > >> when I made the move, but it's been at least a week. > >> > >> -- > >> -- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > >> Groups "Clojure" group. > >> To post to this group, send email to clo...@googlegroups.com > >> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with > >> your first post. > >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > >> clojure+u...@googlegroups.com > >> For more options, visit this group at > >> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > >> --- > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > >> "Clojure" group. > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an > >> email to clojure+u...@googlegroups.com . > >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > > > > -- > > -- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > Groups "Clojure" group. > > To post to this group, send email to clo...@googlegroups.com > > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with > your > > first post. > > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > > clojure+u...@googlegroups.com > > For more options, visit this group at > > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > > --- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups > > "Clojure" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > an > > email to clojure+u...@googlegroups.com . > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: cider status
On Tuesday, November 12, 2013 5:10:43 PM UTC+2, John Hume wrote: > > The last (non-authoritative) word on cider on this mailing list[1] was > that it is unstable. Is that really the case? Is it just a matter of many > packages that depend on it not being updated? > I'm cider's primary maintainer. My opinion is that it's very stable at the moment. More stable and less buggy than nrepl.el ever was. Most packages that used to depend on nrepl.el, now depend on cider. nrepl-ritz is only notable exception. > > I tried checking the official mailing list[2] and was surprised to find > that it's private. > That was an accidental mistake (it seems google groups are private by default). > > I'm trying to understand this because I submitted a recipe to MELPA, and > they will no longer accept packages that depend on nrepl.el. > > Thanks. > -hume. > > [1] > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/clojure/cider/clojure/JfS7ZzePtA4/ZAPHHn1zS5gJ > Tim > Visher: "Also, Cider is _unstable_ at this point. I'm still using nrepl > 0.2.0 and it's working fine. I would _not_ recommend upgrading to Cider > at this point." > [2] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cider-emacs > > -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: cider status
I don't normally use test-mode as it happens -- my main library fails to test correctly in test-mode while working when run through lein for reasons that I have never determined. Clean tests feel nicer anyway. I'm hoping ritz updates soon -- name changes have to happen sometimes, and making the fall out as short as possible has to be a good thing! Now to fix my own nrepl dependencies! Colin Yates writes: > That's the culprit - I was wondering why nrepl wouldn't disappear! > > For me, cider has been rock solid with midje-mode, but I am not really > exercising it too much. > > On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 2:56:05 PM UTC, Phillip Lord wrote: >> >> >> I discovered one of the reasons for my issues with stability yesterday. >> The version of clojure-test-mode on marmalade still depends on nrepl >> (rather than cider), so, despite my best efforts to remove nrepl.el it >> was still getting pulled back in. >> >> Fun and games! >> >> Phil >> >> Phillip Lord > writes: >> >> > I have tried it a couple of times and keep reverting back to nrepl. One >> > of the biggest issues is nrepl-ritz which depends on nrepl and not >> > nrepl-client. So switching to cider appears to mean ditching ritz. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: cider status
That's the culprit - I was wondering why nrepl wouldn't disappear! For me, cider has been rock solid with midje-mode, but I am not really exercising it too much. On Tuesday, November 19, 2013 2:56:05 PM UTC, Phillip Lord wrote: > > > I discovered one of the reasons for my issues with stability yesterday. > The version of clojure-test-mode on marmalade still depends on nrepl > (rather than cider), so, despite my best efforts to remove nrepl.el it > was still getting pulled back in. > > Fun and games! > > Phil > > Phillip Lord > writes: > > > I have tried it a couple of times and keep reverting back to nrepl. One > > of the biggest issues is nrepl-ritz which depends on nrepl and not > > nrepl-client. So switching to cider appears to mean ditching ritz. > -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: cider status
I discovered one of the reasons for my issues with stability yesterday. The version of clojure-test-mode on marmalade still depends on nrepl (rather than cider), so, despite my best efforts to remove nrepl.el it was still getting pulled back in. Fun and games! Phil Phillip Lord writes: > I have tried it a couple of times and keep reverting back to nrepl. One > of the biggest issues is nrepl-ritz which depends on nrepl and not > nrepl-client. So switching to cider appears to mean ditching ritz. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: cider status
Norman Richards writes: > On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Phillip Lord > wrote: >> >> I have tried it a couple of times and keep reverting back to nrepl. One >> of the biggest issues is nrepl-ritz which depends on nrepl and not >> nrepl-client. So switching to cider appears to mean ditching ritz. > > > Although I don't understand why anyone thought it was a good idea to change > package names, The discussion is here: https://github.com/clojure-emacs/cider/issues/375 Basically, there was lots of confusion between nrepl.el (the client) and nREPL (the server). Added to switch nrepl.el had lots of functionality which wasn't just the client -- all of that's in nrepl-client.el now. Probably a long term win, but a bit of a pain in the short term. Phil -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: cider status
While I'm glad to hear that there are users out there for whom cider is working great, I would still say based on following the project on GitHub that there are far too many issues being filed based on function names not being defined etc. to consider the current release stable. As always, YMMV. On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 12:37 PM, Gary Trakhman wrote: > Stable for me, the only outside tool I use that relies on it is ac-nrepl, > but switching the hooks over for cider was painless. > > > On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 12:35 PM, Norman Richards > wrote: >> >> >> On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Phillip Lord >> wrote: >>> >>> I have tried it a couple of times and keep reverting back to nrepl. One >>> of the biggest issues is nrepl-ritz which depends on nrepl and not >>> nrepl-client. So switching to cider appears to mean ditching ritz. >> >> >> Although I don't understand why anyone thought it was a good idea to >> change package names, I can confirm that for my daily clojure development, >> the transition was fairly painless (uninstall/reinstall packages and update >> some init.el configuration) and has not caused any problems with the set of >> emacs clojure tools I use. (which does not include ritz) I don't remember >> when I made the move, but it's been at least a week. >> >> -- >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "Clojure" group. >> To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com >> Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with >> your first post. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send email to >> clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> For more options, visit this group at >> http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Clojure" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > > > -- > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Clojure" group. > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your > first post. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Clojure" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: cider status
Stable for me, the only outside tool I use that relies on it is ac-nrepl, but switching the hooks over for cider was painless. On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 12:35 PM, Norman Richards wrote: > > On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Phillip Lord < > phillip.l...@newcastle.ac.uk> wrote: >> >> I have tried it a couple of times and keep reverting back to nrepl. One >> of the biggest issues is nrepl-ritz which depends on nrepl and not >> nrepl-client. So switching to cider appears to mean ditching ritz. > > > Although I don't understand why anyone thought it was a good idea to > change package names, I can confirm that for my daily clojure development, > the transition was fairly painless (uninstall/reinstall packages and update > some init.el configuration) and has not caused any problems with the set of > emacs clojure tools I use. (which does not include ritz) I don't remember > when I made the move, but it's been at least a week. > > -- > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > Groups "Clojure" group. > To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com > Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with > your first post. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Clojure" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. > -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: cider status
On Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 10:22 AM, Phillip Lord wrote: > > I have tried it a couple of times and keep reverting back to nrepl. One > of the biggest issues is nrepl-ritz which depends on nrepl and not > nrepl-client. So switching to cider appears to mean ditching ritz. Although I don't understand why anyone thought it was a good idea to change package names, I can confirm that for my daily clojure development, the transition was fairly painless (uninstall/reinstall packages and update some init.el configuration) and has not caused any problems with the set of emacs clojure tools I use. (which does not include ritz) I don't remember when I made the move, but it's been at least a week. -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: cider status
I have tried it a couple of times and keep reverting back to nrepl. One of the biggest issues is nrepl-ritz which depends on nrepl and not nrepl-client. So switching to cider appears to mean ditching ritz. Name changes always cause a significant amount of distruption. I understand the rationale but only a short time after the slime/swank split it's a little unwelcome. Especially as I have code (https://github.com/phillord/tawny-owl/blob/master/emacs/tawny-mode.el) that I use daily and which depends on nrepl. Phil "John D. Hume" writes: > The last (non-authoritative) word on cider on this mailing list[1] was that > it is unstable. Is that really the case? Is it just a matter of many > packages that depend on it not being updated? > > I tried checking the official mailing list[2] and was surprised to find > that it's private. > > I'm trying to understand this because I submitted a recipe to MELPA, and > they will no longer accept packages that depend on nrepl.el. > > Thanks. > -hume. > > [1] > https://groups.google.com/forum/#!searchin/clojure/cider/clojure/JfS7ZzePtA4/ZAPHHn1zS5gJ > Tim > Visher: "Also, Cider is _unstable_ at this point. I'm still using nrepl > 0.2.0 and it's working fine. I would _not_ recommend upgrading to Cider at > this > point." > [2] https://groups.google.com/forum/#!forum/cider-emacs > > -- -- Phillip Lord, Phone: +44 (0) 191 222 7827 Lecturer in Bioinformatics, Email: phillip.l...@newcastle.ac.uk School of Computing Science, http://homepages.cs.ncl.ac.uk/phillip.lord Room 914 Claremont Tower, skype: russet_apples Newcastle University, twitter: phillord NE1 7RU -- -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To post to this group, send email to clojure@googlegroups.com Note that posts from new members are moderated - please be patient with your first post. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/clojure?hl=en --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Clojure" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to clojure+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
