Stus-List September NE rendezvous

[Maturo, John via CnC-List]

Any more on this years rendezvous   I seem to remember that Newport is the 
site. 

John Maturo
Ashe Baltic 39
Branford ct
203-494-6782

> On May 3, 2014, at 12:01, "via CnC-List"  wrote:
> 
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> 
> Today's Topics:
> 
>  1. Re:  Making a winch backing plate (Chuck S via CnC-List)
>  2. Re:  Spring prep (M Bod via CnC-List)
>  3. Re:  List (Rick Brass via CnC-List)
>  4. Re:  List (Frederick G Street via CnC-List)
>  5. Re:  List (Tom Buscaglia via CnC-List)
>  6. Re:  trekies? (Chuck S via CnC-List)
>  7. Re:  trekies? (Frederick G Street via CnC-List)
>  8.  Leet's get back on topic (Stu via CnC-List)
>  9. Re:  Making a winch backing plate (Martin DeYoung via CnC-List)
> 10. Re:  Leet's get back on topic (via CnC-List)
> 11. Re:  thanks for all your effort
> (John and Maryann Read via CnC-List)
> 12. Re:  Spring prep (Graham Collins via CnC-List)
> 13. Re:  Spring prep (M Bod via CnC-List)
> 
> 
> --
> 
> Message: 1
> Date: Fri, 2 May 2014 22:37:13 + (UTC)
> From: Chuck S via CnC-List 
> To: "Dennis C." ,"CNC boat owners, cnc-list"
>   
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Making a winch backing plate
> Message-ID:
>   <2056620315.920382.1399070233894.javamail.r...@comcast.net>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> I like it. Sounds very strong. You could also paint the aluminum backing 
> plates to match the interior? 
> 
> 
> 
> Chuck 
> Resolute 
> 1990 C&C 34R 
> Atlantic City, NJ 
> 
> - Original Message -
> 
> From: "CNC boat owners, cnc-list"  
> To: "CNC boat owners, cnc-list"  
> Sent: Friday, May 2, 2014 6:11:58 PM 
> Subject: Stus-List Making a winch backing plate 
> 
> Just thought I'd share my current project. 
> 
> I'm repairing a boat with a ripped off cabin top winch. The winch was mounted 
> on a pad molded in the deck. Molded in the deck under the pad was an aluminum 
> disc. The winch fasteners were tapped into the disc. The cabin liner was 
> immediately under that. The winch, pad and disc all separated from the deck. 
> 
> Since there was no access to the underside of the pad, there was no easy way 
> to get beneath the pad and add structure for strength. The plan was to clean 
> up the pad, re-attach it with epoxy. Simply epoxying the pad down would have 
> very little strength so the winch needs to be through bolted. (Of course a 
> minor gelcoat repair is required to cosmetically finish the pad.) 
> 
> Since the backing plate will be visible from the cabin, it needs to be nice. 
> 
> Anyway, I ordered a couple of pieces of 1/4 inch aluminum plate on eBay. (You 
> can find cut scraps fairly cheap there.) I used my Bosch jigsaw with a metal 
> cutting blade to size the pad and rough trim the corners. Then I shaped the 
> corners with a belt sander with 80 grit and then finished all the edges with 
> the belt sander and 120 grit. The edges were hand sanded with 320 grit. The 
> exposed flat surface was hand sanded with 1000 grit wet/dry then polished 
> with a buffing wheel and polishing compound. Looks nice!! 
> 
> Whole process took about 30-40 minutes. The winch will be re-installed with 
> washers, lock washers and cap nuts for a nice finished look. 
> 
> Dennis C. 
> Touche' 35-1 #83 
> Mandeville, LA 
> 
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> Message: 2
> Date: Fri, 02 May 2014 19:40:17 -0300
> From: M Bod via CnC-List 
> To: C&C list 
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Spring prep
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8
> 
> I was thinking the same thing. 
> Hopefully its in good shape. Not expecting I'd want to try and change it out 
> my first time while its in the water! But a quick haul is not that bad.
> 
> And I've wondered about the thru hull valves - exercised them all back and 
> forth a few times. They 'seem' OK, and the hoses appear OK as well. 
> I expect the hoses and thru hulls will get replaced over the next few years 
> (hopefully I won't regret waiting!)
> 
> Mark
> 
>> On 2 May 2014 19:07, Graham Collins  wrote:
>> 
>> I'd leave it alone without reason to change it.? My boat had been on the 
>> hard a while before launch, stuffing box 

Re: Stus-List Halyard

[Tim Goodyear via CnC-List]

I just ordered a new (2nd) jib halyard and a replacement line for the
second reef from them - pretty good prices and free shipping!  I got 5/16"
Yale Crystalyne - I'll let you know how it goes.  We went out for a quick
sail on Sunday - lots of wind!  Now back in the yard to let them mount the
new winches, hopefully "fully launched" next weekend.

Tim
Mojito
C&C 35-3
Branford, CT


On Sat, May 3, 2014 at 7:51 PM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> I agree that APS is a good source.  With your main you obviously want low
> stretch.  If I were to replace my 7/16 VPC I would do 1/4 inch dyneema with
> a dyneema cover for the shackle end and a poly cover for the clutch.  Low
> stretch, light weight affordable and easy to DIY.
>
> Joel
> 35/3
> Annapolis
>
>
> On Saturday, May 3, 2014, Chuck S via CnC-List 
> wrote:
>
>> Checkout apsltd.com
>> You can contact them for advice on the latest line for halyards.  There
>> are so many choices.
>> They can make it to length and splice the ends for you however you want
>> them.
>>
>>
>> Chuck
>> Resolute
>> 1990 C&C 34R
>> Atlantic City, NJ
>>
>> --
>> *From: *"CNC boat owners, cnc-list" 
>> *To: *"CNC boat owners, cnc-list" 
>> *Sent: *Saturday, May 3, 2014 3:42:48 PM
>> *Subject: *Stus-List Halyard
>>
>>
>> I must replace my main halyard due to improper winter storage, I guess by
>> me, and significant chafing.
>> Interested in recommendations for type and vendor.  Do use UK Kevlar tape
>> drive main for racing.
>> Bill Walker
>> C n C 36
>> Sent from my HTC
>>
>>
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>>
>>
>
> --
> Joel
> 301 541 8551
>
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>
>
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Stus-List Mixed batteries

[via CnC-List]

In a pinch, I recently bought a 'starting' battery (Group 27) per my earlier 
post (no marine stores open after 6 on Saturdays)
 
Then I decided to get a replacement for my dead Lifeline AGM battery.
 
Of course, Murphy lurking about, I realized that my Zantrex Truecharge 40 wants 
all the batteries it charges to be the same since
its charging schemes apply to all three outputs to the batteries.
 
Before I pull the 'rope-a-dope' of returning the starting battery, I need some 
list advice:
 
A lot of sailors suggest using a 'starting' battery exclusively for starting 
and using the house batteries for the house. I am aware that
an AGM can be used for starting as well.
 
However, if a 'starting' battery is better for this job (CCA, etc.) and the AGM 
is better for its job, how does one use a single charger like mine
to satisfy different charging schemes?  

2 chargers, a smarter charger that has outputs for different battery 
characteristics, or 'forgetaboutit" and charge both batteries as though
the were both AGMs?

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb
 
cenel...@aol.com

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Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

Two choices:

1.   Buy a cheap small charger for the house battery.

2.   Sacrifice the long term well-being of the cheap wet-cell starting 
battery and set your charging parameters for the expensive AGM house bank. AGM 
voltages are close enough that the start battery lifespan will likely be pretty 
close to optimal anyway.



Here is an example start-bank charger 
(http://www.ebay.com/itm/ProMariner-ProSport-Gen-2-6-12v-Boat-Battery-Charger-1-Bank-Waterproof-/161291965003?pt=Boat_Parts_Accessories_Gear&vxp=mtr&hash=item258dc0124b#ht_3309wt_1366)

Joe Della Barba
Coquina
C&C 35 MK I
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 9:48 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Mixed batteries

In a pinch, I recently bought a 'starting' battery (Group 27) per my earlier 
post (no marine stores open after 6 on Saturdays)

Then I decided to get a replacement for my dead Lifeline AGM battery.

Of course, Murphy lurking about, I realized that my Zantrex Truecharge 40 wants 
all the batteries it charges to be the same since
its charging schemes apply to all three outputs to the batteries.

Before I pull the 'rope-a-dope' of returning the starting battery, I need some 
list advice:

A lot of sailors suggest using a 'starting' battery exclusively for starting 
and using the house batteries for the house. I am aware that
an AGM can be used for starting as well.

However, if a 'starting' battery is better for this job (CCA, etc.) and the AGM 
is better for its job, how does one use a single charger like mine
to satisfy different charging schemes?

2 chargers, a smarter charger that has outputs for different battery 
characteristics, or 'forgetaboutit" and charge both batteries as though
the were both AGMs?

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb

cenel...@aol.com
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Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

[Paul Fountain via CnC-List]

Use an echo charger to charge the starting battery, and the Xantrex for the 
house bank.

http://www.xantrex.com/power-products/power-accessories/auxiliary-battery-charger.aspx


From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of via CnC-List
Sent: May 5, 2014 9:48 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Stus-List Mixed batteries

In a pinch, I recently bought a 'starting' battery (Group 27) per my earlier 
post (no marine stores open after 6 on Saturdays)

Then I decided to get a replacement for my dead Lifeline AGM battery.

Of course, Murphy lurking about, I realized that my Zantrex Truecharge 40 wants 
all the batteries it charges to be the same since
its charging schemes apply to all three outputs to the batteries.

Before I pull the 'rope-a-dope' of returning the starting battery, I need some 
list advice:

A lot of sailors suggest using a 'starting' battery exclusively for starting 
and using the house batteries for the house. I am aware that
an AGM can be used for starting as well.

However, if a 'starting' battery is better for this job (CCA, etc.) and the AGM 
is better for its job, how does one use a single charger like mine
to satisfy different charging schemes?

2 chargers, a smarter charger that has outputs for different battery 
characteristics, or 'forgetaboutit" and charge both batteries as though
the were both AGMs?

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb

cenel...@aol.com
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Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

Charlie,

You would need both a smart charger and a smart regulator.  Stick to one
kind.  You can buy a lot of batteries for the price of all that!

Joel
35/3
Annapolis


On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 9:47 AM, via CnC-List  wrote:

> In a pinch, I recently bought a 'starting' battery (Group 27) per my
> earlier post (no marine stores open after 6 on Saturdays)
>
> Then I decided to get a replacement for my dead Lifeline AGM battery.
>
> Of course, Murphy lurking about, I realized that my Zantrex Truecharge 40
> wants all the batteries it charges to be the same since
> its charging schemes apply to all three outputs to the batteries.
>
> Before I pull the 'rope-a-dope' of returning the starting battery, I need
> some list advice:
>
> A lot of sailors suggest using a 'starting' battery exclusively for
> starting and using the house batteries for the house. I am aware that
> an AGM can be used for starting as well.
>
> However, if a 'starting' battery is better for this job (CCA, etc.) and
> the AGM is better for its job, how does one use a single charger like mine
> to satisfy different charging schemes?
>
> 2 chargers, a smarter charger that has outputs for different battery
> characteristics, or 'forgetaboutit" and charge both batteries as though
> the were both AGMs?
>
> Charlie Nelson
> Water Phantom
> C&C 36 XL/kcb
>
> cenel...@aol.com
>
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
>
>


-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

[Rich Knowles via CnC-List]

The best method I have found and the least problematic from all points of view 
is to have a dedicated starting battery that does nothing else but start the 
engine, and a house battery that can be several batteries in parallel. Ideally 
the house batteries will all be identical. I feed the alternator directly to 
the house battery and use a device such as a Xantrex EchoCharge, a small 
regulator, to keep the start battery charged. A simple 1/both/2 off switch 
feeds the house load from either battery and acts as a combiner switch if 
needed. I have a diagram I can send you if you wish. 

I have wired many boats this way with no complaints or incidents. 

Rich Knowles
Indigo. LF38
Halifax. NS

> On May 5, 2014, at 10:47, via CnC-List  wrote:
> 
> In a pinch, I recently bought a 'starting' battery (Group 27) per my earlier 
> post (no marine stores open after 6 on Saturdays)
>  
> Then I decided to get a replacement for my dead Lifeline AGM battery.
>  
> Of course, Murphy lurking about, I realized that my Zantrex Truecharge 40 
> wants all the batteries it charges to be the same since
> its charging schemes apply to all three outputs to the batteries.
>  
> Before I pull the 'rope-a-dope' of returning the starting battery, I need 
> some list advice:
>  
> A lot of sailors suggest using a 'starting' battery exclusively for starting 
> and using the house batteries for the house. I am aware that
> an AGM can be used for starting as well.
>  
> However, if a 'starting' battery is better for this job (CCA, etc.) and the 
> AGM is better for its job, how does one use a single charger like mine
> to satisfy different charging schemes? 
>  
> 2 chargers, a smarter charger that has outputs for different battery 
> characteristics, or 'forgetaboutit" and charge both batteries as though
> the were both AGMs?
>  
> Charlie Nelson
> Water Phantom
> C&C 36 XL/kcb
>  
> cenel...@aol.com
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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Stus-List Midnight Mistress

[Joel Aronson via CnC-List]

There's a nice shot of Jake's 35/3 on page 90 of the current edition of
Spinsheet.

-- 
Joel
301 541 8551
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Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

[John Pennie via CnC-List]

I would just charge the wet cell as an AGM - very similar parameters anyway.  
It won’t live as long but it’s not exactly the biggest investment you’ll ever 
make.

On the AGM, look for one labeled “dual purpose”.  These are designed for the 
life and cycles of a deep discharge but offer near the CCA of a starting 
battery.  Most marine AGMs are dual purpose.  The catalog will list both CCA 
and reserve in Ah.

John



On May 5, 2014, at 10:07 AM, Joel Aronson via CnC-List  
wrote:

> Charlie,
> 
> You would need both a smart charger and a smart regulator.  Stick to one 
> kind.  You can buy a lot of batteries for the price of all that!
> 
> Joel
> 35/3
> Annapolis
> 
> 
> On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 9:47 AM, via CnC-List  wrote:
> In a pinch, I recently bought a 'starting' battery (Group 27) per my earlier 
> post (no marine stores open after 6 on Saturdays)
>  
> Then I decided to get a replacement for my dead Lifeline AGM battery.
>  
> Of course, Murphy lurking about, I realized that my Zantrex Truecharge 40 
> wants all the batteries it charges to be the same since
> its charging schemes apply to all three outputs to the batteries.
>  
> Before I pull the 'rope-a-dope' of returning the starting battery, I need 
> some list advice:
>  
> A lot of sailors suggest using a 'starting' battery exclusively for starting 
> and using the house batteries for the house. I am aware that
> an AGM can be used for starting as well.
>  
> However, if a 'starting' battery is better for this job (CCA, etc.) and the 
> AGM is better for its job, how does one use a single charger like mine
> to satisfy different charging schemes? 
>  
> 2 chargers, a smarter charger that has outputs for different battery 
> characteristics, or 'forgetaboutit" and charge both batteries as though
> the were both AGMs?
>  
> Charlie Nelson
> Water Phantom
> C&C 36 XL/kcb
>  
> cenel...@aol.com
> 
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Joel 
> 301 541 8551
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com

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Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

[Rich Knowles via CnC-List]

Also:  the AC charger, and any other charging devices such as wind or solar, 
are connected to the house bank in the same manner as the alternator, and will 
charge all batteries as needed. 

Rich

> On May 5, 2014, at 11:38, Rich Knowles via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> The best method I have found and the least problematic from all points of 
> view is to have a dedicated starting battery that does nothing else but start 
> the engine, and a house battery that can be several batteries in parallel. 
> Ideally the house batteries will all be identical. I feed the alternator 
> directly to the house battery and use a device such as a Xantrex EchoCharge, 
> a small regulator, to keep the start battery charged. A simple 1/both/2 off 
> switch feeds the house load from either battery and acts as a combiner switch 
> if needed. I have a diagram I can send you if you wish. 
> 
> I have wired many boats this way with no complaints or incidents. 
> 
> Rich Knowles
> Indigo. LF38
> Halifax. NS
> 
>> On May 5, 2014, at 10:47, via CnC-List  wrote:
>> 
>> In a pinch, I recently bought a 'starting' battery (Group 27) per my earlier 
>> post (no marine stores open after 6 on Saturdays)
>>  
>> Then I decided to get a replacement for my dead Lifeline AGM battery.
>>  
>> Of course, Murphy lurking about, I realized that my Zantrex Truecharge 40 
>> wants all the batteries it charges to be the same since
>> its charging schemes apply to all three outputs to the batteries.
>>  
>> Before I pull the 'rope-a-dope' of returning the starting battery, I need 
>> some list advice:
>>  
>> A lot of sailors suggest using a 'starting' battery exclusively for starting 
>> and using the house batteries for the house. I am aware that
>> an AGM can be used for starting as well.
>>  
>> However, if a 'starting' battery is better for this job (CCA, etc.) and the 
>> AGM is better for its job, how does one use a single charger like mine
>> to satisfy different charging schemes? 
>>  
>> 2 chargers, a smarter charger that has outputs for different battery 
>> characteristics, or 'forgetaboutit" and charge both batteries as though
>> the were both AGMs?
>>  
>> Charlie Nelson
>> Water Phantom
>> C&C 36 XL/kcb
>>  
>> cenel...@aol.com
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Rich,

Please do send around a diagram. I’m planning to do something similar — 
a 27 starting battery (as battery #2) and a 31 house bank (as battery#1).

When I want to start and run the engine, I will do so on ALL. That way 
the alternator will charge both batteries. When sailing and “hanging out”, I 
would switch to 1 only. 

I have a solar panel and a dual battery regulator, which would connect 
to both. 

Two weeks to launch and still much to do…..



All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log

On May 5, 2014, at 10:38 AM, Rich Knowles via CnC-List  
wrote:

> The best method I have found and the least problematic from all points of 
> view is to have a dedicated starting battery that does nothing else but start 
> the engine, and a house battery that can be several batteries in parallel. 
> Ideally the house batteries will all be identical. I feed the alternator 
> directly to the house battery and use a device such as a Xantrex EchoCharge, 
> a small regulator, to keep the start battery charged. A simple 1/both/2 off 
> switch feeds the house load from either battery and acts as a combiner switch 
> if needed. I have a diagram I can send you if you wish. 
> 
> I have wired many boats this way with no complaints or incidents. 
> 
> Rich Knowles
> Indigo. LF38
> Halifax. NS
> 
> On May 5, 2014, at 10:47, via CnC-List  wrote:
> 
>> In a pinch, I recently bought a 'starting' battery (Group 27) per my earlier 
>> post (no marine stores open after 6 on Saturdays)
>>  
>> Then I decided to get a replacement for my dead Lifeline AGM battery.
>>  
>> Of course, Murphy lurking about, I realized that my Zantrex Truecharge 40 
>> wants all the batteries it charges to be the same since
>> its charging schemes apply to all three outputs to the batteries.
>>  
>> Before I pull the 'rope-a-dope' of returning the starting battery, I need 
>> some list advice:
>>  
>> A lot of sailors suggest using a 'starting' battery exclusively for starting 
>> and using the house batteries for the house. I am aware that
>> an AGM can be used for starting as well.
>>  
>> However, if a 'starting' battery is better for this job (CCA, etc.) and the 
>> AGM is better for its job, how does one use a single charger like mine
>> to satisfy different charging schemes? 
>>  
>> 2 chargers, a smarter charger that has outputs for different battery 
>> characteristics, or 'forgetaboutit" and charge both batteries as though
>> the were both AGMs?
>>  
>> Charlie Nelson
>> Water Phantom
>> C&C 36 XL/kcb
>>  
>> cenel...@aol.com
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
> CnC-List@cnc-list.com

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Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

[Frank Woronkowicz via CnC-List]

Rich
Please e mail schematic. Thanks
Frank
LF 38 Annapolis

Sent from my iPhone

> On May 5, 2014, at 10:38 AM, Rich Knowles via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> The best method I have found and the least problematic from all points of 
> view is to have a dedicated starting battery that does nothing else but start 
> the engine, and a house battery that can be several batteries in parallel. 
> Ideally the house batteries will all be identical. I feed the alternator 
> directly to the house battery and use a device such as a Xantrex EchoCharge, 
> a small regulator, to keep the start battery charged. A simple 1/both/2 off 
> switch feeds the house load from either battery and acts as a combiner switch 
> if needed. I have a diagram I can send you if you wish. 
> 
> I have wired many boats this way with no complaints or incidents. 
> 
> Rich Knowles
> Indigo. LF38
> Halifax. NS
> 
>> On May 5, 2014, at 10:47, via CnC-List  wrote:
>> 
>> In a pinch, I recently bought a 'starting' battery (Group 27) per my earlier 
>> post (no marine stores open after 6 on Saturdays)
>>  
>> Then I decided to get a replacement for my dead Lifeline AGM battery.
>>  
>> Of course, Murphy lurking about, I realized that my Zantrex Truecharge 40 
>> wants all the batteries it charges to be the same since
>> its charging schemes apply to all three outputs to the batteries.
>>  
>> Before I pull the 'rope-a-dope' of returning the starting battery, I need 
>> some list advice:
>>  
>> A lot of sailors suggest using a 'starting' battery exclusively for starting 
>> and using the house batteries for the house. I am aware that
>> an AGM can be used for starting as well.
>>  
>> However, if a 'starting' battery is better for this job (CCA, etc.) and the 
>> AGM is better for its job, how does one use a single charger like mine
>> to satisfy different charging schemes? 
>>  
>> 2 chargers, a smarter charger that has outputs for different battery 
>> characteristics, or 'forgetaboutit" and charge both batteries as though
>> the were both AGMs?
>>  
>> Charlie Nelson
>> Water Phantom
>> C&C 36 XL/kcb
>>  
>> cenel...@aol.com
>> ___
>> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
>> http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
>> CnC-List@cnc-list.com
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Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

[Wally Bryant via CnC-List]

 Richwrote:

I feed the alternator directly to the house battery and use a device such as a 
Xantrex EchoCharge, a small regulator, to keep the start battery charged.


That's how I wired mine.  It works fine with both the alternator and 
battery charger.


Wal

--
s/v Stella Blue
www.wbryant.com


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Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

[Bruno Lachance via CnC-List]

Rich, is the relay via a the regulator to the start battery only in the case 
you have different type or size of battery or is there any advantage to add it 
with two lead-acid size 31, or any same size/type ? My alternator is wired to 
both 31 as my Guest chargepro 10 amp. Don't know if it adust output for each 
batt depending on state of charge.

 

I always start on 1 and then use 2 for instruments/house. Charging the two 
together without regulator, Am i toasting one battery here ?

 

I do have an isolator combiner.

 

I'm on a slip so shore power is available. no solar

 

Thanks.

 

Bruno Lachance

Becassine

33 mk II 87

Qc.

 

 

 


 

> Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 15:17:01 +
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries
> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> 
> Richwrote:
> > I feed the alternator directly to the house battery and use a device such 
> > as a Xantrex EchoCharge, a small regulator, to keep the start battery 
> > charged.
> 
> That's how I wired mine. It works fine with both the alternator and 
> battery charger.
> 
> Wal
> 
> -- 
> s/v Stella Blue
> www.wbryant.com
> 
> 
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
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Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

[Rich Knowles via CnC-List]

Hi Bruno. I sent you the diagram. There is no need to charge both batteries 
from the alternator or shore power charger with my suggested setup. If the 
starter battery needs charging, the EchoCharge takes care of it. Also, you 
don’t have to switch anything other than turning the battery switch to battery 
1, the house bank. You will note that battery 2 is always connected directly to 
the starter.

Rich

On May 5, 2014, at 13:29, Bruno Lachance via CnC-List  
wrote:

Rich, is the relay via a the regulator to the start battery only in the case 
you have different type or size of battery or is there any advantage to add it 
with two lead-acid size 31, or any same size/type ? My alternator is wired to 
both 31 as my Guest chargepro 10 amp. Don't know if it adust output for each 
batt depending on state of charge.
 
I always start on 1 and then use 2 for instruments/house. Charging the two 
together without regulator, Am i toasting one battery here ?
 
I do have an isolator combiner.
 
I'm on a slip so shore power is available. no solar
 
Thanks.
 
Bruno Lachance
Becassine
33 mk II 87
Qc.
 
 
 

 
> Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 15:17:01 +
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries
> From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> 
> Richwrote:
> > I feed the alternator directly to the house battery and use a device such 
> > as a Xantrex EchoCharge, a small regulator, to keep the start battery 
> > charged.
> 
> That's how I wired mine. It works fine with both the alternator and 
> battery charger.
> 
> Wal
> 
> -- 
> s/v Stella Blue
> www.wbryant.com
> 
> 
> ___
> This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
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Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Edd,

I don’t want to start a discussion on how to charge the batteries (as this 
would be off topic), but starting from the ALL position has some major 
disadvantages. One is that you might be hiding a problem with your starting 
battery; two is that if one battery is weak, you would be charging that weak 
battery from the strong one (you risk that if one is nearly dead, the other 
would not start the engine, either, but instead would discharge to equalise the 
voltage with the weak one).

No question (in my mind),  the best way is to start from the starting battery 
(hence the name) and have the echo charger making sure that both batteries are 
charged properly. 

Some advocate to have the batteries split into “main” and “spare”. Many good 
marine batteries can be used as dual purpose. If you design your system this 
way, you start on the “main”, it gets charged by the alternator and the echo 
charger maintains the “spare”.

If I remember correctly, you have a solar system, as well. Many charge 
controllers have a dual battery option and they can be setup to charge the 
“main” battery first and then charge the “spare” (mine has a selectable 50/50 
or 90/10 split).

If you are interested, you can check some of Main Sail’s articles on that topic 
at Sailboat Owners or at his web site (http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/). 

Marek (in Ottawa)

PS. Would “may the Force (May the 4th) be with you” apply, even if it is a day 
late? I know it is mixing the references...

From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 10:58 AM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

Rich, 

Please do send around a diagram. I’m planning to do something similar — a 27 
starting battery (as battery #2) and a 31 house bank (as battery#1).

When I want to start and run the engine, I will do so on ALL. That way the 
alternator will charge both batteries. When sailing and “hanging out”, I would 
switch to 1 only. 

I have a solar panel and a dual battery regulator, which would connect to both. 

Two weeks to launch and still much to do…..





All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log

On May 5, 2014, at 10:38 AM, Rich Knowles via CnC-List  
wrote:


  The best method I have found and the least problematic from all points of 
view is to have a dedicated starting battery that does nothing else but start 
the engine, and a house battery that can be several batteries in parallel. 
Ideally the house batteries will all be identical. I feed the alternator 
directly to the house battery and use a device such as a Xantrex EchoCharge, a 
small regulator, to keep the start battery charged. A simple 1/both/2 off 
switch feeds the house load from either battery and acts as a combiner switch 
if needed. I have a diagram I can send you if you wish. 

  I have wired many boats this way with no complaints or incidents. 

  Rich Knowles
  Indigo. LF38
  Halifax. NS

  On May 5, 2014, at 10:47, via CnC-List  wrote:


In a pinch, I recently bought a 'starting' battery (Group 27) per my 
earlier post (no marine stores open after 6 on Saturdays)

Then I decided to get a replacement for my dead Lifeline AGM battery.

Of course, Murphy lurking about, I realized that my Zantrex Truecharge 40 
wants all the batteries it charges to be the same since
its charging schemes apply to all three outputs to the batteries.

Before I pull the 'rope-a-dope' of returning the starting battery, I need 
some list advice:

A lot of sailors suggest using a 'starting' battery exclusively for 
starting and using the house batteries for the house. I am aware that
an AGM can be used for starting as well.

However, if a 'starting' battery is better for this job (CCA, etc.) and the 
AGM is better for its job, how does one use a single charger like mine
to satisfy different charging schemes?  

2 chargers, a smarter charger that has outputs for different battery 
characteristics, or 'forgetaboutit" and charge both batteries as though
the were both AGMs?

Charlie Nelson
Water Phantom
C&C 36 XL/kcb

cenel...@aol.com

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Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Marek,

Very interesting. What exactly is an echo charger and how would I 
connect it? 

The previous owner had two house bank 31s and a starter battery hooked 
up parallel to one of them. That starter battery turned out to be dead and was 
dragging the other down. 

I replaced all with two new 31s about 4 years ago. Now one of those two 
is dead and I don’t feel like dumping $300 on a replacement when I’m not 
running on batteries for more than a few hours on any given day. 


All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log

On May 5, 2014, at 1:01 PM, Marek Dziedzic  wrote:

> Edd,
>  
> I don’t want to start a discussion on how to charge the batteries (as this 
> would be off topic), but starting from the ALL position has some major 
> disadvantages. One is that you might be hiding a problem with your starting 
> battery; two is that if one battery is weak, you would be charging that weak 
> battery from the strong one (you risk that if one is nearly dead, the other 
> would not start the engine, either, but instead would discharge to equalise 
> the voltage with the weak one).
>  
> No question (in my mind),  the best way is to start from the starting battery 
> (hence the name) and have the echo charger making sure that both batteries 
> are charged properly.
>  
> Some advocate to have the batteries split into “main” and “spare”. Many good 
> marine batteries can be used as dual purpose. If you design your system this 
> way, you start on the “main”, it gets charged by the alternator and the echo 
> charger maintains the “spare”.
>  
> If I remember correctly, you have a solar system, as well. Many charge 
> controllers have a dual battery option and they can be setup to charge the 
> “main” battery first and then charge the “spare” (mine has a selectable 50/50 
> or 90/10 split).
>  
> If you are interested, you can check some of Main Sail’s articles on that 
> topic at Sailboat Owners or at his web site 
> (http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/).
>  
> Marek (in Ottawa)
>  
> PS. Would “may the Force (May the 4th) be with you” apply, even if it is a 
> day late? I know it is mixing the references...
>  
> From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List
> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 10:58 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries
>  
> Rich,
>  
> Please do send around a diagram. I’m planning to do something similar — a 27 
> starting battery (as battery #2) and a 31 house bank (as battery#1).
>  
> When I want to start and run the engine, I will do so on ALL. That way the 
> alternator will charge both batteries. When sailing and “hanging out”, I 
> would switch to 1 only.
>  
> I have a solar panel and a dual battery regulator, which would connect to 
> both.
>  
> Two weeks to launch and still much to do…..
>  
> 
> 
> All the best,
>  
> Edd
>  
>  
> Edd M. Schillay
> Starship Enterprise
> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> City Island, NY
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
>  
> On May 5, 2014, at 10:38 AM, Rich Knowles via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
>> The best method I have found and the least problematic from all points of 
>> view is to have a dedicated starting battery that does nothing else but 
>> start the engine, and a house battery that can be several batteries in 
>> parallel. Ideally the house batteries will all be identical. I feed the 
>> alternator directly to the house battery and use a device such as a Xantrex 
>> EchoCharge, a small regulator, to keep the start battery charged. A simple 
>> 1/both/2 off switch feeds the house load from either battery and acts as a 
>> combiner switch if needed. I have a diagram I can send you if you wish.
>>  
>> I have wired many boats this way with no complaints or incidents. 
>> 
>> Rich Knowles
>> Indigo. LF38
>> Halifax. NS
>> 
>> On May 5, 2014, at 10:47, via CnC-List  wrote:
>> 
>>> In a pinch, I recently bought a 'starting' battery (Group 27) per my 
>>> earlier post (no marine stores open after 6 on Saturdays)
>>>  
>>> Then I decided to get a replacement for my dead Lifeline AGM battery.
>>>  
>>> Of course, Murphy lurking about, I realized that my Zantrex Truecharge 40 
>>> wants all the batteries it charges to be the same since
>>> its charging schemes apply to all three outputs to the batteries.
>>>  
>>> Before I pull the 'rope-a-dope' of returning the starting battery, I need 
>>> some list advice:
>>>  
>>> A lot of sailors suggest using a 'starting' battery exclusively for 
>>> starting and using the house batteries for the house. I am aware that
>>> an AGM can be used for starting as well.
>>>  
>>> However, if a 'starting' battery is better for this job (CCA, etc.) and the 
>>> AGM is better for its job, how does one use a single charger like mine
>>> to satisfy different charging schemes? 
>>>  
>>> 2 chargers, a smarter charger that has outputs f

Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

[Wally Bryant via CnC-List]

Here's the manual.


if that's too long for your email



Very interesting. What exactly is an echo charger and how would I 
connect it?



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Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

[Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List]

Edd,

I am far from being an expert on charging systems, so whatever I say here is 
based on my personal experience and what I have found from others.

The echo charger is a Xantrex device (I bet that others make one like that, as 
well). WM sells it here: 
http://www.westmarine.com/triple-blocks/xantrex--echo-charge-battery-charger—333669;
 Defender here: 
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|328|2289962|2289976&id=93959 (for 
$10 less). 

It seems that it is a device that responds to exactly your issue – how to keep 
a starting battery charged and separated from the house without any overly 
complex (and costly) dual battery regulators.

Apparently, there is a caveat with it. You may want to read that rant by Main 
Sail: 
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/electrical-systems/72295-xantrex-echo-charger-rant.html.
 There is nothing wrong with the device; only with the instruction manual that 
comes with it.

Btw. Nothing is cheap (as usual with anything boat related). The Echo Charger 
sells for about $120. maybe I should not use the word “cheap”, because I think 
that this is a cheap insurance. But it is not necessarily a “low cost”. After 
all, you would be spending $120 plus installation, plus rewiring, plus some 
additional incidental costs in order to save a $100 battery or two.

Btw 2. I bet that a few of our (C&C List’s) electrical experts would have to 
say a word or two on the subject.

Marek (in Ottawa).

From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 1:10 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

Marek, 

Very interesting. What exactly is an echo charger and how would I connect it? 

The previous owner had two house bank 31s and a starter battery hooked up 
parallel to one of them. That starter battery turned out to be dead and was 
dragging the other down. 

I replaced all with two new 31s about 4 years ago. Now one of those two is dead 
and I don’t feel like dumping $300 on a replacement when I’m not running on 
batteries for more than a few hours on any given day. 



All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log

On May 5, 2014, at 1:01 PM, Marek Dziedzic  wrote:


  Edd,

  I don’t want to start a discussion on how to charge the batteries (as this 
would be off topic), but starting from the ALL position has some major 
disadvantages. One is that you might be hiding a problem with your starting 
battery; two is that if one battery is weak, you would be charging that weak 
battery from the strong one (you risk that if one is nearly dead, the other 
would not start the engine, either, but instead would discharge to equalise the 
voltage with the weak one).

  No question (in my mind),  the best way is to start from the starting battery 
(hence the name) and have the echo charger making sure that both batteries are 
charged properly. 

  Some advocate to have the batteries split into “main” and “spare”. Many good 
marine batteries can be used as dual purpose. If you design your system this 
way, you start on the “main”, it gets charged by the alternator and the echo 
charger maintains the “spare”.

  If I remember correctly, you have a solar system, as well. Many charge 
controllers have a dual battery option and they can be setup to charge the 
“main” battery first and then charge the “spare” (mine has a selectable 50/50 
or 90/10 split).

  If you are interested, you can check some of Main Sail’s articles on that 
topic at Sailboat Owners or at his web site 
(http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/). 

  Marek (in Ottawa)

  PS. Would “may the Force (May the 4th) be with you” apply, even if it is a 
day late? I know it is mixing the references...

  From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
  Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 10:58 AM
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

  Rich, 

  Please do send around a diagram. I’m planning to do something similar — a 27 
starting battery (as battery #2) and a 31 house bank (as battery#1).

  When I want to start and run the engine, I will do so on ALL. That way the 
alternator will charge both batteries. When sailing and “hanging out”, I would 
switch to 1 only. 

  I have a solar panel and a dual battery regulator, which would connect to 
both. 

  Two weeks to launch and still much to do…..





  All the best,

  Edd


  Edd M. Schillay
  Starship Enterprise
  C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
  City Island, NY 
  Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log

  On May 5, 2014, at 10:38 AM, Rich Knowles via CnC-List 
 wrote:


The best method I have found and the least problematic from all points of 
view is to have a dedicated starting battery that does nothing else but start 
the engine, and a house battery that can be several batteries in parallel. 
Ideally the house batteries will all be identical. I feed the alternator 
directly to the house battery and use a device such as a Xantrex EchoCharge, a 
small reg

Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

[dwight via CnC-List]

Save yourself some trouble.use all deep cycle batteries, 2 golf cart 6V
units connected in series if possible or 2 deep cycle group 27's, use the
selector switch to charge one bank at a time from the alternator.works for
me and seems quite simple.those 12V deep cycle batteries have way more than
enough cranking amps to start our sailboat engines in summer, so you can
alternate between bank 1 and bank 2 for starting or house, I do that
regularly to make sure both banks get taken down and require charging on a
semi regular basis.

 

  _  

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Marek
Dziedzic via CnC-List
Sent: May 5, 2014 2:02 PM
To: Edd Schillay; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

 

Edd,

 

I don't want to start a discussion on how to charge the batteries (as this
would be off topic), but starting from the ALL position has some major
disadvantages. One is that you might be hiding a problem with your starting
battery; two is that if one battery is weak, you would be charging that weak
battery from the strong one (you risk that if one is nearly dead, the other
would not start the engine, either, but instead would discharge to equalise
the voltage with the weak one).

 

No question (in my mind),  the best way is to start from the starting
battery (hence the name) and have the echo charger making sure that both
batteries are charged properly. 

 

Some advocate to have the batteries split into "main" and "spare". Many good
marine batteries can be used as dual purpose. If you design your system this
way, you start on the "main", it gets charged by the alternator and the echo
charger maintains the "spare".

 

If I remember correctly, you have a solar system, as well. Many charge
controllers have a dual battery option and they can be setup to charge the
"main" battery first and then charge the "spare" (mine has a selectable
50/50 or 90/10 split).

 

If you are interested, you can check some of Main Sail's articles on that
topic at Sailboat Owners or at his web site
(http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/). 

 

Marek (in Ottawa)

 

PS. Would "may the Force (May the 4th) be with you" apply, even if it is a
day late? I know it is mixing the references...

 

From: Edd Schillay   via CnC-List 

Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 10:58 AM

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 

Subject: Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

 

Rich, 

 

Please do send around a diagram. I'm planning to do something similar - a 27
starting battery (as battery #2) and a 31 house bank (as battery#1).

 

When I want to start and run the engine, I will do so on ALL. That way the
alternator will charge both batteries. When sailing and "hanging out", I
would switch to 1 only. 

 

I have a solar panel and a dual battery regulator, which would connect to
both. 

 

Two weeks to launch and still much to do...

 

 

All the best,

 

Edd

 

 

Edd M. Schillay

Starship Enterprise

C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B

City Island, NY 

Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log  

 

On May 5, 2014, at 10:38 AM, Rich Knowles via CnC-List
 wrote:





The best method I have found and the least problematic from all points of
view is to have a dedicated starting battery that does nothing else but
start the engine, and a house battery that can be several batteries in
parallel. Ideally the house batteries will all be identical. I feed the
alternator directly to the house battery and use a device such as a Xantrex
EchoCharge, a small regulator, to keep the start battery charged. A simple
1/both/2 off switch feeds the house load from either battery and acts as a
combiner switch if needed. I have a diagram I can send you if you wish. 

 

I have wired many boats this way with no complaints or incidents. 

Rich Knowles

Indigo. LF38

Halifax. NS


On May 5, 2014, at 10:47, via CnC-List  wrote:

In a pinch, I recently bought a 'starting' battery (Group 27) per my earlier
post (no marine stores open after 6 on Saturdays)

 

Then I decided to get a replacement for my dead Lifeline AGM battery.

 

Of course, Murphy lurking about, I realized that my Zantrex Truecharge 40
wants all the batteries it charges to be the same since

its charging schemes apply to all three outputs to the batteries.

 

Before I pull the 'rope-a-dope' of returning the starting battery, I need
some list advice:

 

A lot of sailors suggest using a 'starting' battery exclusively for starting
and using the house batteries for the house. I am aware that

an AGM can be used for starting as well.

 

However, if a 'starting' battery is better for this job (CCA, etc.) and the
AGM is better for its job, how does one use a single charger like mine

to satisfy different charging schemes?  

 

2 chargers, a smarter charger that has outputs for different battery
characteristics, or 'forgetaboutit" and charge both batteries as though

the were both AGMs?

 

Charlie Nelson

Water Phantom

C&C 36 XL/kcb

Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

[Rich Knowles via CnC-List]

In short, an Echo Charge is a simple regulator that derives it's input voltage 
from a battery connected to a charging source. It's output is connected to a 
secondary battery such as an engine start or windlass battery. If the input 
voltage rises above 3.4 volts, as I recall, the 

Rich

> On May 5, 2014, at 14:10, Edd Schillay via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Marek,
> 
>   Very interesting. What exactly is an echo charger and how would I 
> connect it? 
> 
>   The previous owner had two house bank 31s and a starter battery hooked 
> up parallel to one of them. That starter battery turned out to be dead and 
> was dragging the other down. 
> 
>   I replaced all with two new 31s about 4 years ago. Now one of those two 
> is dead and I don’t feel like dumping $300 on a replacement when I’m not 
> running on batteries for more than a few hours on any given day. 
> 
> 
>   All the best,
> 
>   Edd
> 
> 
>   Edd M. Schillay
>   Starship Enterprise
>   C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>   City Island, NY 
>   Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
> 
>> On May 5, 2014, at 1:01 PM, Marek Dziedzic  wrote:
>> 
>> Edd,
>>  
>> I don’t want to start a discussion on how to charge the batteries (as this 
>> would be off topic), but starting from the ALL position has some major 
>> disadvantages. One is that you might be hiding a problem with your starting 
>> battery; two is that if one battery is weak, you would be charging that weak 
>> battery from the strong one (you risk that if one is nearly dead, the other 
>> would not start the engine, either, but instead would discharge to equalise 
>> the voltage with the weak one).
>>  
>> No question (in my mind),  the best way is to start from the starting 
>> battery (hence the name) and have the echo charger making sure that both 
>> batteries are charged properly.
>>  
>> Some advocate to have the batteries split into “main” and “spare”. Many good 
>> marine batteries can be used as dual purpose. If you design your system this 
>> way, you start on the “main”, it gets charged by the alternator and the echo 
>> charger maintains the “spare”.
>>  
>> If I remember correctly, you have a solar system, as well. Many charge 
>> controllers have a dual battery option and they can be setup to charge the 
>> “main” battery first and then charge the “spare” (mine has a selectable 
>> 50/50 or 90/10 split).
>>  
>> If you are interested, you can check some of Main Sail’s articles on that 
>> topic at Sailboat Owners or at his web site 
>> (http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/).
>>  
>> Marek (in Ottawa)
>>  
>> PS. Would “may the Force (May the 4th) be with you” apply, even if it is a  
>> day late? I know it is mixing the references...
>>  
>> From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List
>> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 10:58 AM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries
>>  
>> Rich,
>>  
>> Please do send around a diagram. I’m planning to do something similar — a 27 
>> starting battery (as battery #2) and a 31 house bank (as battery#1).
>>  
>> When I want to start and run the engine, I will do so on ALL. That way the 
>> alternator will charge both batteries. When sailing and “hanging out”, I 
>> would switch to 1 only.
>>  
>> I have a solar panel and a dual battery regulator, which would connect to 
>> both.
>>  
>> Two weeks to launch and still much to do…..
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> All the best,
>>  
>> Edd
>>  
>>  
>> Edd M. Schillay
>> Starship Enterprise
>> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>> City Island, NY
>> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
>>  
>>> On May 5, 2014, at 10:38 AM, Rich Knowles via CnC-List 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
>>> The best method I have found and the least problematic from all points of 
>>> view is to have a dedicated starting battery that does nothing else but 
>>> start the engine, and a house battery that can be several batteries in 
>>> parallel. Ideally the house batteries will all be identical. I feed the 
>>> alternator directly to the house battery and use a device such as a Xantrex 
>>> EchoCharge, a small regulator, to keep the start battery charged. A simple 
>>> 1/both/2 off switch feeds the house load from either battery and acts as a 
>>> combiner switch if needed. I have a diagram I can send you if you wish.
>>>  
>>> I have wired many boats this way with no complaints or incidents. 
>>> 
>>> Rich Knowles
>>> Indigo. LF38
>>> Halifax. NS
>>> 
 On May 5, 2014, at 10:47, via CnC-List  wrote:
 
 In a pinch, I recently bought a 'starting' battery (Group 27) per my 
 earlier post (no marine stores open after 6 on Saturdays)
  
 Then I decided to get a replacement for my dead Lifeline AGM battery.
  
 Of course, Murphy lurking about, I realized that my Zantrex Truecharge 40 
 wants all the batteries it charges to be the same since
 its charging schemes apply to all three outputs to the batteries.
  
 Before I pull the 'rope-a-dope' of returning the starting batte

Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

[Rich Knowles via CnC-List]

To 

Rich

> On May 5, 2014, at 15:52, Rich Knowles via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> In short, an Echo Charge is a simple regulator that derives it's input 
> voltage from a battery connected to a charging source. It's output is 
> connected to a secondary battery such as an engine start or windlass battery. 
> If the input voltage rises above 3.4 volts, as I recall, the 
> 
> Rich
> 
>> On May 5, 2014, at 14:10, Edd Schillay via CnC-List  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Marek,
>> 
>>  Very interesting. What exactly is an echo charger and how would I 
>> connect it? 
>> 
>>  The previous owner had two house bank 31s and a starter battery hooked 
>> up parallel to one of them. That starter battery turned out to be dead and 
>> was dragging the other down. 
>> 
>>  I replaced all with two new 31s about 4 years ago. Now one of those two 
>> is dead and I don’t feel like dumping $300 on a replacement when I’m not 
>> running on batteries for more than a few hours on any given day. 
>> 
>> 
>>  All the best,
>> 
>>  Edd
>> 
>> 
>>  Edd M. Schillay
>>  Starship Enterprise
>>  C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>>  City Island, NY 
>>  Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
>> 
>>> On May 5, 2014, at 1:01 PM, Marek Dziedzic  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Edd,
>>>  
>>> I don’t want to start a discussion on how to charge the batteries (as this 
>>> would be off topic), but starting from the ALL position has some major 
>>> disadvantages. One is that you might be hiding a problem with your starting 
>>> battery; two is that if one battery is weak, you would be charging that 
>>> weak battery from the strong one (you risk that if one is nearly dead, the 
>>> other would not start the engine, either, but instead would discharge to 
>>> equalise the voltage with the weak one).
>>>  
>>> No question (in my mind),  the best way is to start from the starting 
>>> battery (hence the name) and have the echo charger making sure that both 
>>> batteries are charged properly.
>>>  
>>> Some advocate to have the batteries split into “main” and “spare”. Many 
>>> good marine batteries can be used as dual purpose. If you design your 
>>> system this way, you start on the “main”, it gets charged by the alternator 
>>> and the echo charger maintains the “spare”.
>>>  
>>> If I remember correctly, you have a solar system, as well. Many charge 
>>> controllers have a dual battery option and they can be setup to charge the 
>>> “main” battery first and then charge the “spare” (mine has a selectable 
>>> 50/50 or 90/10 split).
>>>  
>>> If you are interested, you can check some of Main Sail’s articles on that 
>>> topic at Sailboat Owners or at his web site 
>>> (http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/).
>>>  
>>> Marek (in Ottawa)
>>>  
>>> PS. Would “may the Force (May the 4th) be with you” apply, even if it is a 
>>> day late? I know it is mixing the references...
>>>  
>>> From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List
>>> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 10:58 AM
>>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries
>>>  
>>> Rich,
>>>  
>>> Please do send around a diagram. I’m planning to do something similar — a 
>>> 27 starting battery (as battery #2) and a 31 house bank (as battery#1).
>>>  
>>> When I want to start and run the engine, I will do so on ALL. That way the 
>>> alternator will charge both batteries. When sailing and “hanging out”, I 
>>> would switch to 1 only.
>>>  
>>> I have a solar panel and a dual battery regulator, which would connect to 
>>> both.
>>>  
>>> Two weeks to launch and still much to do…..
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> All the best,
>>>  
>>> Edd
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Edd M. Schillay
>>> Starship Enterprise
>>> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>>> City Island, NY
>>> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
>>>  
 On May 5, 2014, at 10:38 AM, Rich Knowles via CnC-List 
  wrote:
 
 The best method I have found and the least problematic from all points of 
 view is to have a dedicated starting battery that does nothing else but 
 start the engine, and a house battery that can be several batteries in 
 parallel. Ideally the house batteries will all be identical. I feed the 
 alternator directly to the house battery and use a device such as a 
 Xantrex EchoCharge, a small regulator, to keep the start battery charged. 
 A simple 1/both/2 off switch feeds the house load from either battery and 
 acts as a combiner switch if needed. I have a diagram I can send you if 
 you wish.
  
 I have wired many boats this way with no complaints or incidents. 
 
 Rich Knowles
 Indigo. LF38
 Halifax. NS
 
> On May 5, 2014, at 10:47, via CnC-List  wrote:
> 
> In a pinch, I recently bought a 'starting' battery (Group 27) per my 
> earlier post (no marine stores open after 6 on Saturdays)
>  
> Then I decided to get a replacement for my dead Lifeline AGM battery.
>  
> Of course, Murphy lurking about, I realized that my Zantrex Truecharge 40

Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

Rich,

I think I get it now. If I have my starter battery as #2, I start the 
engine with #2 only (not ALL). This echo-charger could take the Alternator 
charge going into #2 and also charge #1. 

Do I have that right? 

If so, I gots me some wiring to do…. 



All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log

On May 5, 2014, at 2:52 PM, Rich Knowles  wrote:

> In short, an Echo Charge is a simple regulator that derives it's input 
> voltage from a battery connected to a charging source. It's output is 
> connected to a secondary battery such as an engine start or windlass battery. 
> If the input voltage rises above 3.4 volts, as I recall, the 
> 
> Rich
> 
> On May 5, 2014, at 14:10, Edd Schillay via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
>> Marek,
>> 
>>  Very interesting. What exactly is an echo charger and how would I 
>> connect it? 
>> 
>>  The previous owner had two house bank 31s and a starter battery hooked 
>> up parallel to one of them. That starter battery turned out to be dead and 
>> was dragging the other down. 
>> 
>>  I replaced all with two new 31s about 4 years ago. Now one of those two 
>> is dead and I don’t feel like dumping $300 on a replacement when I’m not 
>> running on batteries for more than a few hours on any given day. 
>> 
>> 
>>  All the best,
>> 
>>  Edd
>> 
>> 
>>  Edd M. Schillay
>>  Starship Enterprise
>>  C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>>  City Island, NY 
>>  Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
>> 
>> On May 5, 2014, at 1:01 PM, Marek Dziedzic  wrote:
>> 
>>> Edd,
>>>  
>>> I don’t want to start a discussion on how to charge the batteries (as this 
>>> would be off topic), but starting from the ALL position has some major 
>>> disadvantages. One is that you might be hiding a problem with your starting 
>>> battery; two is that if one battery is weak, you would be charging that 
>>> weak battery from the strong one (you risk that if one is nearly dead, the 
>>> other would not start the engine, either, but instead would discharge to 
>>> equalise the voltage with the weak one).
>>>  
>>> No question (in my mind),  the best way is to start from the starting 
>>> battery (hence the name) and have the echo charger making sure that both 
>>> batteries are charged properly.
>>>  
>>> Some advocate to have the batteries split into “main” and “spare”. Many 
>>> good marine batteries can be used as dual purpose. If you design your 
>>> system this way, you start on the “main”, it gets charged by the alternator 
>>> and the echo charger maintains the “spare”.
>>>  
>>> If I remember correctly, you have a solar system, as well. Many charge 
>>> controllers have a dual battery option and they can be setup to charge the 
>>> “main” battery first and then charge the “spare” (mine has a selectable 
>>> 50/50 or 90/10 split).
>>>  
>>> If you are interested, you can check some of Main Sail’s articles on that 
>>> topic at Sailboat Owners or at his web site 
>>> (http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/).
>>>  
>>> Marek (in Ottawa)
>>>  
>>> PS. Would “may the Force (May the 4th) be with you” apply, even if it is a 
>>> day late? I know it is mixing the references...
>>>  
>>> From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List
>>> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 10:58 AM
>>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries
>>>  
>>> Rich,
>>>  
>>> Please do send around a diagram. I’m planning to do something similar — a 
>>> 27 starting battery (as battery #2) and a 31 house bank (as battery#1).
>>>  
>>> When I want to start and run the engine, I will do so on ALL. That way the 
>>> alternator will charge both batteries. When sailing and “hanging out”, I 
>>> would switch to 1 only.
>>>  
>>> I have a solar panel and a dual battery regulator, which would connect to 
>>> both.
>>>  
>>> Two weeks to launch and still much to do…..
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> All the best,
>>>  
>>> Edd
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Edd M. Schillay
>>> Starship Enterprise
>>> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>>> City Island, NY
>>> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
>>>  
>>> On May 5, 2014, at 10:38 AM, Rich Knowles via CnC-List 
>>>  wrote:
>>> 
 The best method I have found and the least problematic from all points of 
 view is to have a dedicated starting battery that does nothing else but 
 start the engine, and a house battery that can be several batteries in 
 parallel. Ideally the house batteries will all be identical. I feed the 
 alternator directly to the house battery and use a device such as a 
 Xantrex EchoCharge, a small regulator, to keep the start battery charged. 
 A simple 1/both/2 off switch feeds the house load from either battery and 
 acts as a combiner switch if needed. I have a diagram I can send you if 
 you wish.
  
 I have wired many boats this way with no complain

Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

[Rich Knowles via CnC-List]

To finish, doggone phones, if the input voltage rises above a preset threshold 
voltage indicating charge current is available, and the auxiliary battery 
voltage is below a preset level, the Echo Charge will send up to 15 Amps of 
charge current to the auxiliary battery. Once it is charged, the current flow 
is turned off. Simple and works. Only three wires to hook up. 

Rich

> On May 5, 2014, at 15:52, Rich Knowles via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> In short, an Echo Charge is a simple regulator that derives it's input 
> voltage from a battery connected to a charging source. It's output is 
> connected to a secondary battery such as an engine start or windlass battery. 
> If the input voltage rises above 3.4 volts, as I recall, the 
> 
> Rich
> 
>> On May 5, 2014, at 14:10, Edd Schillay via CnC-List  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Marek,
>> 
>>  Very interesting. What exactly is an echo charger and how would I 
>> connect it? 
>> 
>>  The previous owner had two house bank 31s and a starter battery hooked 
>> up parallel to one of them. That starter battery turned out to be dead and 
>> was dragging the other down. 
>> 
>>  I replaced all with two new 31s about 4 years ago. Now one of those two 
>> is dead and I don’t feel like dumping $300 on a replacement when I’m not 
>> running on batteries for more than a few hours on any given day. 
>> 
>> 
>>  All the best,
>> 
>>  Edd
>> 
>> 
>>  Edd M. Schillay
>>  Starship Enterprise
>>  C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>>  City Island, NY 
>>  Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
>> 
>>> On May 5, 2014, at 1:01 PM, Marek Dziedzic  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Edd,
>>>  
>>> I don’t want to start a discussion on how to charge the batteries (as this 
>>> would be off topic), but starting from the ALL position has some major 
>>> disadvantages. One is that you might be hiding a problem with your starting 
>>> battery; two is that if one battery is weak, you would be charging that 
>>> weak battery from the strong one (you risk that if one is nearly dead, the 
>>> other would not start the engine, either, but instead would discharge to 
>>> equalise the voltage with the weak one).
>>>  
>>> No question (in my mind),  the best way is to start from the starting 
>>> battery (hence the name) and have the echo charger making sure that both 
>>> batteries are charged properly.
>>>  
>>> Some advocate to have the batteries split into “main” and “spare”. Many 
>>> good marine batteries can be used as dual purpose. If you design your 
>>> system  this way, you start on the “main”, it gets charged by the 
>>> alternator and the echo charger maintains the “spare”.
>>>  
>>> If I remember correctly, you have a solar system, as well. Many charge  
>>> controllers have a dual battery option and they can be setup to charge the 
>>> “main” battery first and then charge the “spare” (mine has a selectable 
>>> 50/50 or 90/10 split).
>>>  
>>> If you are interested, you can check some of Main Sail’s articles on that 
>>> topic at Sailboat Owners or at his web site 
>>> (http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/).
>>>  
>>> Marek (in Ottawa)
>>>  
>>> PS. Would “may the Force (May the 4th) be with you” apply, even if it is a 
>>> day late? I know it is mixing the references...
>>>  
>>> From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List
>>> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 10:58 AM
>>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries
>>>  
>>> Rich,
>>>  
>>> Please do send around a diagram. I’m planning to do something similar — a 
>>> 27 starting battery (as battery #2) and a 31 house bank (as battery#1).
>>>  
>>> When I want to start and run the engine, I will do so on ALL. That way the 
>>> alternator will charge both batteries. When sailing and “hanging out”, I 
>>> would switch to 1 only.
>>>  
>>> I have a solar panel and a dual battery regulator, which would connect to 
>>> both.
>>>  
>>> Two weeks to launch and still much to do…..
>>>  
>>> 
>>> 
>>> All the best,
>>>  
>>> Edd
>>>  
>>>  
>>> Edd M. Schillay
>>> Starship Enterprise
>>> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>>> City Island, NY
>>> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
>>>  
 On May 5, 2014, at 10:38 AM, Rich Knowles via CnC-List 
  wrote:
 
 The best method I have found and the least problematic from all points of 
 view is to have a dedicated starting battery that does nothing else but 
 start the engine, and a house battery that can be several batteries in 
 parallel. Ideally the house batteries will all be identical. I feed the 
 alternator directly to the house battery and use a device such as a 
 Xantrex EchoCharge, a small regulator, to keep the start battery charged. 
 A simple 1/both/2 off switch feeds the house load from either battery and 
 acts as a combiner switch if needed. I have a diagram I can send you if 
 you wish.
  
 I have wired many boats this way with no complaints or incidents. 
 
 Rich Knowles
 Indigo. LF38
 Halifax. NS
 

Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

OK… maybe I don’t get it. I just read the manual and could use some collective 
wisdom from the group. 

Here goes.. The House battery is #1 (a deep cycle 31) and the starter battery 
is #2 (a 27). The manual says I should connect this to the House battery, which 
will, when charging, send power to the starter battery. 

I have a solar setup, but that never brings the battery to over 13.0 volts 
(which is the “ON” point for the echo charger), so the only way to really get 
the Echo thing going, and my main way of charging the batteries, is by engine 
power. 

But I should really only start and run the engine with the starter battery, 
right? And the echo doesn’t reverse, right?

So, should I set it up backwards? That way, when I start the engine on #2, the 
alternator charges #2 and then the echo will charge the house #1. And, move my 
solar charging to #2 also? 

Confused….. 




All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log

On May 5, 2014, at 3:28 PM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List  
wrote:

> Rich,
> 
>   I think I get it now. If I have my starter battery as #2, I start the 
> engine with #2 only (not ALL). This echo-charger could take the Alternator 
> charge going into #2 and also charge #1. 
> 
>   Do I have that right? 
> 
>   If so, I gots me some wiring to do…. 
>   
> 
> 
>   All the best,
> 
>   Edd
> 
> 
>   Edd M. Schillay
>   Starship Enterprise
>   C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>   City Island, NY 
>   Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
> 
> On May 5, 2014, at 2:52 PM, Rich Knowles  wrote:
> 
>> In short, an Echo Charge is a simple regulator that derives it's input 
>> voltage from a battery connected to a charging source. It's output is 
>> connected to a secondary battery such as an engine start or windlass 
>> battery. If the input voltage rises above 3.4 volts, as I recall, the 
>> 
>> Rich
>> 
>> On May 5, 2014, at 14:10, Edd Schillay via CnC-List  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Marek,
>>> 
>>> Very interesting. What exactly is an echo charger and how would I 
>>> connect it? 
>>> 
>>> The previous owner had two house bank 31s and a starter battery hooked 
>>> up parallel to one of them. That starter battery turned out to be dead and 
>>> was dragging the other down. 
>>> 
>>> I replaced all with two new 31s about 4 years ago. Now one of those two 
>>> is dead and I don’t feel like dumping $300 on a replacement when I’m not 
>>> running on batteries for more than a few hours on any given day. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> All the best,
>>> 
>>> Edd
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Edd M. Schillay
>>> Starship Enterprise
>>> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>>> City Island, NY 
>>> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
>>> 
>>> On May 5, 2014, at 1:01 PM, Marek Dziedzic  wrote:
>>> 
 Edd,
  
 I don’t want to start a discussion on how to charge the batteries (as this 
 would be off topic), but starting from the ALL position has some major 
 disadvantages. One is that you might be hiding a problem with your 
 starting battery; two is that if one battery is weak, you would be 
 charging that weak battery from the strong one (you risk that if one is 
 nearly dead, the other would not start the engine, either, but instead 
 would discharge to equalise the voltage with the weak one).
  
 No question (in my mind),  the best way is to start from the starting 
 battery (hence the name) and have the echo charger making sure that both 
 batteries are charged properly.
  
 Some advocate to have the batteries split into “main” and “spare”. Many 
 good marine batteries can be used as dual purpose. If you design your 
 system this way, you start on the “main”, it gets charged by the 
 alternator and the echo charger maintains the “spare”.
  
 If I remember correctly, you have a solar system, as well. Many charge 
 controllers have a dual battery option and they can be setup to charge the 
 “main” battery first and then charge the “spare” (mine has a selectable 
 50/50 or 90/10 split).
  
 If you are interested, you can check some of Main Sail’s articles on that 
 topic at Sailboat Owners or at his web site 
 (http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/).
  
 Marek (in Ottawa)
  
 PS. Would “may the Force (May the 4th) be with you” apply, even if it is a 
 day late? I know it is mixing the references...
  
 From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List
 Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 10:58 AM
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries
  
 Rich,
  
 Please do send around a diagram. I’m planning to do something similar — a 
 27 starting battery (as battery #2) and a 31 house bank (as battery#1).
  
 When I want to start and run the engine, I will do so on AL

Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

[Rich Knowles via CnC-List]

Almost:) connect the alternator directly to your house battery and make that 
battery 1. 

Rich

> On May 5, 2014, at 16:28, Edd Schillay via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Rich,
> 
>   I think I get it now. If I have my starter battery as #2, I start the 
> engine with #2 only (not ALL). This echo-charger could take the Alternator 
> charge going into #2 and also charge #1. 
> 
>   Do I have that right? 
> 
>   If so, I gots me some wiring to do…. 
>   
> 
> 
>   All the best,
> 
>   Edd
> 
> 
>   Edd M. Schillay
>   Starship Enterprise
>   C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>   City Island, NY 
>   Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
> 
>> On May 5, 2014, at 2:52 PM, Rich Knowles  wrote:
>> 
>> In short, an Echo Charge is a simple regulator that derives it's input 
>> voltage from a battery connected to a charging source. It's output is 
>> connected to a secondary battery such as an engine start or windlass 
>> battery. If the input voltage rises above 3.4 volts, as I recall, the 
>> 
>> Rich
>> 
>>> On May 5, 2014, at 14:10, Edd Schillay via CnC-List  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Marek,
>>> 
>>> Very interesting. What exactly is an echo charger and how would I 
>>> connect it? 
>>> 
>>> The previous owner had two house bank 31s and a starter battery hooked 
>>> up parallel to one of them. That starter battery turned out to be dead and 
>>> was dragging the other down. 
>>> 
>>> I replaced all with two new 31s about 4 years ago. Now one of those two 
>>> is dead and I don’t feel like dumping $300 on a replacement when I’m not 
>>> running on batteries for more than a few hours on any given day. 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> All the best,
>>> 
>>> Edd
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Edd M. Schillay
>>> Starship Enterprise
>>> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>>> City Island, NY 
>>> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
>>> 
 On May 5, 2014, at 1:01 PM, Marek Dziedzic  wrote:
 
 Edd,
  
 I don’t want to start a discussion on how to charge the batteries (as this 
 would be off topic), but starting from the ALL position has some major 
 disadvantages. One is that you might be hiding a problem with your 
 starting battery; two is that if one battery is weak, you would be 
 charging that weak battery from the strong one (you risk that if one is 
 nearly dead, the other would not start the engine, either, but instead 
 would discharge to equalise the voltage with the weak one).
  
 No question (in my mind),  the best way is to start from the starting 
 battery (hence the name) and have the echo charger making sure that both 
 batteries are charged properly.
  
 Some advocate to have the batteries split into “main” and “spare”. Many 
 good marine batteries can be used as dual purpose. If you design your 
 system this way, you start on the “main”, it gets charged by the 
 alternator and the echo charger maintains the “spare”.
  
 If I remember correctly, you have a solar system, as well. Many charge 
 controllers have a dual battery option and they can be setup to charge the 
 “main” battery first and then charge the “spare” (mine has a selectable 
 50/50 or 90/10 split).
  
 If you are interested, you can check some of Main Sail’s articles on that 
 topic at Sailboat Owners or at his web site 
 (http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/).
  
 Marek (in Ottawa)
  
 PS. Would “may the Force (May the 4th) be with you” apply, even if it is a 
 day late? I know it is mixing the references...
  
 From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List
 Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 10:58 AM
 To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
 Subject: Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries
  
 Rich,
  
 Please do send around a diagram. I’m planning to do something similar — a 
 27 starting battery (as battery #2) and a 31 house bank (as battery#1).
  
 When I want to start and run the engine, I will do so on ALL. That way the 
 alternator will charge both batteries. When sailing and “hanging out”, I 
 would switch to 1 only.
  
 I have a solar panel and a dual battery regulator, which would connect to 
 both.
  
 Two weeks to launch and still much to do…..
  
 
 
 All the best,
  
 Edd
  
  
 Edd M. Schillay
 Starship Enterprise
 C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
 City Island, NY
 Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
  
> On May 5, 2014, at 10:38 AM, Rich Knowles via CnC-List 
>   wrote:
> 
> The best method I have found and the least problematic from all points of 
> view is to have a dedicated starting battery that does nothing else but 
> start the engine, and a house battery that can be several batteries in 
> parallel. Ideally the house batteries will all be identical. I feed the 
> alternator directly to the house battery and use a device such as a 
> Xant

Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

[Tim Goodyear via CnC-List]

Edd,

I just added an automatic charging relay (available in this kit
http://www.bluesea.com/products/7650/Add-A-Battery_Kit_-_120A) to replace
the two separate banks that I had previously (2 x 27 deep cycle / 1 x 24).
 This is similar to the echo charge.  Rewiring wasn't too complicated as
the positives for the starter / engine side were already separately led
from the breaker panel.

Tim
Mojito
C&C 35-3
Branford, CT


On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 3:28 PM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List <
cnc-list@cnc-list.com> wrote:

> Rich,
>
> I think I get it now. If I have my starter battery as #2, I start the
> engine with #2 only (not ALL). This echo-charger could take the Alternator
> charge going into #2 and also charge #1.
>
> Do I have that right?
>
> If so, I gots me some wiring to do….
>
>
>
> All the best,
>
> Edd
>
>
> Edd M. Schillay
> Starship Enterprise
> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> City Island, NY
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log 
>
>
>
___
This List is provided by the C&C Photo Album
http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
CnC-List@cnc-list.com

Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

I think my alternator is set up to charge whatever batteries I have on my 
selector switch… Any way to do this without running new wires from my 
alternator? 


All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log

On May 5, 2014, at 3:44 PM, Rich Knowles  wrote:

> Almost:) connect the alternator directly to your house battery and make that 
> battery 1. 
> 
> Rich
> 
> On May 5, 2014, at 16:28, Edd Schillay via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
>> Rich,
>> 
>>  I think I get it now. If I have my starter battery as #2, I start the 
>> engine with #2 only (not ALL). This echo-charger could take the Alternator 
>> charge going into #2 and also charge #1. 
>> 
>>  Do I have that right? 
>> 
>>  If so, I gots me some wiring to do…. 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>>  All the best,
>> 
>>  Edd
>> 
>> 
>>  Edd M. Schillay
>>  Starship Enterprise
>>  C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>>  City Island, NY 
>>  Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
>> 
>> On May 5, 2014, at 2:52 PM, Rich Knowles  wrote:
>> 
>>> In short, an Echo Charge is a simple regulator that derives it's input 
>>> voltage from a battery connected to a charging source. It's output is 
>>> connected to a secondary battery such as an engine start or windlass 
>>> battery. If the input voltage rises above 3.4 volts, as I recall, the 
>>> 
>>> Rich
>>> 
>>> On May 5, 2014, at 14:10, Edd Schillay via CnC-List  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 Marek,
 
Very interesting. What exactly is an echo charger and how would I 
 connect it? 
 
The previous owner had two house bank 31s and a starter battery hooked 
 up parallel to one of them. That starter battery turned out to be dead and 
 was dragging the other down. 
 
I replaced all with two new 31s about 4 years ago. Now one of those two 
 is dead and I don’t feel like dumping $300 on a replacement when I’m not 
 running on batteries for more than a few hours on any given day. 
 
 
All the best,
 
Edd
 
 
Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
 
 On May 5, 2014, at 1:01 PM, Marek Dziedzic  wrote:
 
> Edd,
>  
> I don’t want to start a discussion on how to charge the batteries (as 
> this would be off topic), but starting from the ALL position has some 
> major disadvantages. One is that you might be hiding a problem with your 
> starting battery; two is that if one battery is weak, you would be 
> charging that weak battery from the strong one (you risk that if one is 
> nearly dead, the other would not start the engine, either, but instead 
> would discharge to equalise the voltage with the weak one).
>  
> No question (in my mind),  the best way is to start from the starting 
> battery (hence the name) and have the echo charger making sure that both 
> batteries are charged properly.
>  
> Some advocate to have the batteries split into “main” and “spare”. Many 
> good marine batteries can be used as dual purpose. If you design your 
> system this way, you start on the “main”, it gets charged by the 
> alternator and the echo charger maintains the “spare”.
>  
> If I remember correctly, you have a solar system, as well. Many charge 
> controllers have a dual battery option and they can be setup to charge 
> the “main” battery first and then charge the “spare” (mine has a 
> selectable 50/50 or 90/10 split).
>  
> If you are interested, you can check some of Main Sail’s articles on that 
> topic at Sailboat Owners or at his web site 
> (http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/).
>  
> Marek (in Ottawa)
>  
> PS. Would “may the Force (May the 4th) be with you” apply, even if it is 
> a day late? I know it is mixing the references...
>  
> From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List
> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 10:58 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries
>  
> Rich,
>  
> Please do send around a diagram. I’m planning to do something similar — a 
> 27 starting battery (as battery #2) and a 31 house bank (as battery#1).
>  
> When I want to start and run the engine, I will do so on ALL. That way 
> the alternator will charge both batteries. When sailing and “hanging 
> out”, I would switch to 1 only.
>  
> I have a solar panel and a dual battery regulator, which would connect to 
> both.
>  
> Two weeks to launch and still much to do…..
>  
> 
> 
> All the best,
>  
> Edd
>  
>  
> Edd M. Schillay
> Starship Enterprise
> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> City Island, NY
> Starship Ente

Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

[Prime Interest via CnC-List]

The Echo Charger has an input and an output side. As Rich mentions the input
side is connected to the batteries which are receiving the charge via
alternator and charger. The output side connected to the battery which
typically has no other charging source. The additional comments are that the
primary charging sources and the EchoCharge input be connected to the house
side and the EchoCharge output to the starting battery. The EchoCharge is a
one-way thing . input to output charging. Edd, in you example I think the
normal setup would be to take the alternator to #1 and EchoCharge to #2 (
the 'input' from #1 and 'output' to #2 ). You can still have some combiner
set-up for emergency house/starter switching.

 

 

 

thanks

 

ed vanderkruk

 

 

s/v Prime Interest

1982 C&C 38 Landfall

Toronto, Canada

 

cid:image001.jpg@01C8A05F.9AF64FF0
LF 38, S/N: 229

 

primeinter...@gmail.com

www.primeinterest.blogspot.com

 

From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Edd
Schillay via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 3:29 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

 

Rich,

 

I think I get it now. If I have my starter battery as #2, I
start the engine with #2 only (not ALL). This echo-charger could take the
Alternator charge going into #2 and also charge #1. 

 

Do I have that right? 

 

If so, I gots me some wiring to do.. 



 

All the best,

 

Edd

 

 

Edd M. Schillay

Starship Enterprise

C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B

City Island, NY 

Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
 

 

On May 5, 2014, at 2:52 PM, Rich Knowles  wrote:





In short, an Echo Charge is a simple regulator that derives it's input
voltage from a battery connected to a charging source. It's output is
connected to a secondary battery such as an engine start or windlass
battery. If the input voltage rises above 3.4 volts, as I recall, the 

Rich


On May 5, 2014, at 14:10, Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
wrote:

Marek,

 

Very interesting. What exactly is an echo charger and how would
I connect it? 

 

The previous owner had two house bank 31s and a starter battery
hooked up parallel to one of them. That starter battery turned out to be
dead and was dragging the other down. 

 

I replaced all with two new 31s about 4 years ago. Now one of
those two is dead and I don't feel like dumping $300 on a replacement when
I'm not running on batteries for more than a few hours on any given day. 

 

All the best,

 

Edd

 

 

Edd M. Schillay

Starship Enterprise

C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B

City Island, NY 

Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
 

 

On May 5, 2014, at 1:01 PM, Marek Dziedzic  wrote:





Edd,

 

I don't want to start a discussion on how to charge the batteries (as this
would be off topic), but starting from the ALL position has some major
disadvantages. One is that you might be hiding a problem with your starting
battery; two is that if one battery is weak, you would be charging that weak
battery from the strong one (you risk that if one is nearly dead, the other
would not start the engine, either, but instead would discharge to equalise
the voltage with the weak one).

 

No question (in my mind),  the best way is to start from the starting
battery (hence the name) and have the echo charger making sure that both
batteries are charged properly. 

 

Some advocate to have the batteries split into "main" and "spare". Many good
marine batteries can be used as dual purpose. If you design your system this
way, you start on the "main", it gets charged by the alternator and the echo
charger maintains the "spare".

 

If I remember correctly, you have a solar system, as well. Many charge
controllers have a dual battery option and they can be setup to charge the
"main" battery first and then charge the "spare" (mine has a selectable
50/50 or 90/10 split).

 

If you are interested, you can check some of Main Sail's articles on that
topic at Sailboat Owners or at his web site
(http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/). 

 

Marek (in Ottawa)

 

PS. Would "may the Force (May the 4th) be with you" apply, even if it is a
day late? I know it is mixing the references...

 

From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List   

Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 10:58 AM

To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 

Subject: Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

 

Rich, 

 

Please do send around a diagram. I'm planning to do something similar - a 27
starting battery (as battery #2) and a 31 house bank (as battery#1).

 

When I want to start and run the engine, I will do so on ALL. That way the
alternator will charge both batteries. When sa

Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

[Rich Knowles via CnC-List]

Bottom line is that the house battery is the one that gets discharged and will 
soak up most of any available charge current. The engine start battery on an 
average max. 5 second start cycle will be depleted about 1 or two amp hours, an 
insignificant amount that is probably replenished in a few minutes of engine 
run time. 

In other words, stop worrying about the engine start battery as long as it is 
just used for that purpose, and concentrate on replenishing the house bank 
which is the one taking the daily beating. 

Rich

> On May 5, 2014, at 16:44, Edd Schillay via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> OK… maybe I don’t get it. I just read the manual and could use some 
> collective wisdom from the group. 
> 
> Here goes.. The House battery is #1 (a deep cycle 31) and the starter battery 
> is #2 (a 27). The manual says I should connect this to the House battery, 
> which will, when charging, send power to the starter battery. 
> 
> I have a solar setup, but that never brings the battery to over 13.0 volts 
> (which is the “ON” point for the echo charger), so the only way to really get 
> the Echo thing going, and my main way of charging the batteries, is by engine 
> power. 
> 
> But I should really only start and run the engine with the starter battery, 
> right? And the echo doesn’t reverse, right?
> 
> So, should I set it up backwards? That way, when I start the engine on #2, 
> the alternator charges #2 and then the echo will charge the house #1. And, 
> move my solar charging to #2 also? 
> 
> Confused….. 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>   All the best,
> 
>   Edd
> 
> 
>   Edd M. Schillay
>   Starship Enterprise
>   C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>   City Island, NY 
>   Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
> 
>> On May 5, 2014, at 3:28 PM, Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
>>  wrote:
>> 
>> Rich,
>> 
>>  I think I get it now. If I have my starter battery as #2, I start the 
>> engine with #2 only (not ALL). This echo-charger could take the Alternator 
>> charge going into #2 and also charge #1. 
>> 
>>  Do I have that right? 
>> 
>>  If so, I gots me some wiring to do…. 
>>  
>> 
>> 
>>  All the best,
>> 
>>  Edd
>> 
>> 
>>  Edd M. Schillay
>>  Starship Enterprise
>>  C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>>  City Island, NY 
>>  Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
>> 
>>> On May 5, 2014, at 2:52 PM, Rich Knowles  wrote:
>>> 
>>> In short, an Echo Charge is a simple regulator that derives it's input 
>>> voltage from a battery connected to a charging source. It's output is 
>>> connected to a secondary battery such as an engine start or windlass 
>>> battery. If the input voltage rises above 3.4 volts, as I recall, the 
>>> 
>>> Rich
>>> 
 On May 5, 2014, at 14:10, Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
  wrote:
 
 Marek,
 
Very interesting. What exactly is an echo charger and how would I 
 connect it? 
 
The previous owner had two house bank 31s and a starter battery hooked 
 up parallel to one of them. That starter battery turned out to be dead and 
 was dragging the other down. 
 
I replaced all with two new 31s about 4 years ago. Now one of those two 
 is dead and I don’t feel like dumping $300 on a replacement when I’m not 
 running on batteries for more than a few hours on any given day. 
 
 
All the best,
 
Edd
 
 
Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
 
> On May 5, 2014, at 1:01 PM, Marek Dziedzic  wrote:
> 
> Edd,
>  
> I don’t want to start a discussion on how to charge the batteries (as 
> this would be off topic), but starting from the ALL position has some 
> major disadvantages. One is that you might be hiding a problem with your 
> starting battery; two is that if one battery is weak, you would be 
> charging that weak battery from the strong one (you risk that if one is 
> nearly dead, the other would not start the engine, either, but instead 
> would discharge to equalise the  voltage with the weak one).
>  
> No question (in my mind),  the best way is to start from the starting 
> battery (hence the name) and have the echo charger making sure that both 
> batteries are charged properly.
>  
> Some advocate to have the batteries split into “main” and “spare”. Many 
> good marine batteries can be used as dual purpose. If you design your 
> system this way, you start on the “main”, it gets charged by the 
> alternator and the echo charger maintains the “spare”.
>  
> If I remember correctly, you have a solar system, as well. Many charge 
> controllers have a dual battery option and they can be setup to charge 
> the “main” battery first and then charge the “spare” (mine has a 
> selectable 50/50 or 90/10 split).
>  
> If you are 

Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

[Edd Schillay via CnC-List]

A-ha That’s the piece of the puzzle I wasn’t getting. 

OK… time to rewire. 

Rich Knowles?? I don’t think so, From now on you’ll be Rich Knowmore to me. 

Hot damn, I love this list. Thanks to Stu, too. 


All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log

On May 5, 2014, at 4:00 PM, Rich Knowles  wrote:

> No. On most factory supplied engines, the alternator output is tied to the 
> large + battery connector on the starter or solenoid. Disconnect the wire in 
> the back of the alternator and run a new cable from the alternator output 
> terminal to the house bank positive terminal. The cable should be sized for 
> the expected current and distance. Usually a #4 or #6 should be adequate. 
> 
> Rich
> 
> On May 5, 2014, at 16:50, Edd Schillay  wrote:
> 
>> I think my alternator is set up to charge whatever batteries I have on my 
>> selector switch… Any way to do this without running new wires from my 
>> alternator? 
>> 
>> 
>>  All the best,
>> 
>>  Edd
>> 
>> 
>>  Edd M. Schillay
>>  Starship Enterprise
>>  C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>>  City Island, NY 
>>  Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
>> 
>> On May 5, 2014, at 3:44 PM, Rich Knowles  wrote:
>> 
>>> Almost:) connect the alternator directly to your house battery and make 
>>> that battery 1. 
>>> 
>>> Rich
>>> 
>>> On May 5, 2014, at 16:28, Edd Schillay via CnC-List  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
 Rich,
 
I think I get it now. If I have my starter battery as #2, I start the 
 engine with #2 only (not ALL). This echo-charger could take the Alternator 
 charge going into #2 and also charge #1. 
 
Do I have that right? 
 
If so, I gots me some wiring to do…. 

 
 
All the best,
 
Edd
 
 
Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
 
 On May 5, 2014, at 2:52 PM, Rich Knowles  wrote:
 
> In short, an Echo Charge is a simple regulator that derives it's input 
> voltage from a battery connected to a charging source. It's output is 
> connected to a secondary battery such as an engine start or windlass 
> battery. If the input voltage rises above 3.4 volts, as I recall, the 
> 
> Rich
> 
> On May 5, 2014, at 14:10, Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
>> Marek,
>> 
>>  Very interesting. What exactly is an echo charger and how would I 
>> connect it? 
>> 
>>  The previous owner had two house bank 31s and a starter battery hooked 
>> up parallel to one of them. That starter battery turned out to be dead 
>> and was dragging the other down. 
>> 
>>  I replaced all with two new 31s about 4 years ago. Now one of those two 
>> is dead and I don’t feel like dumping $300 on a replacement when I’m not 
>> running on batteries for more than a few hours on any given day. 
>> 
>> 
>>  All the best,
>> 
>>  Edd
>> 
>> 
>>  Edd M. Schillay
>>  Starship Enterprise
>>  C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>>  City Island, NY 
>>  Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
>> 
>> On May 5, 2014, at 1:01 PM, Marek Dziedzic  
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Edd,
>>>  
>>> I don’t want to start a discussion on how to charge the batteries (as 
>>> this would be off topic), but starting from the ALL position has some 
>>> major disadvantages. One is that you might be hiding a problem with 
>>> your starting battery; two is that if one battery is weak, you would be 
>>> charging that weak battery from the strong one (you risk that if one is 
>>> nearly dead, the other would not start the engine, either, but instead 
>>> would discharge to equalise the voltage with the weak one).
>>>  
>>> No question (in my mind),  the best way is to start from the starting 
>>> battery (hence the name) and have the echo charger making sure that 
>>> both batteries are charged properly.
>>>  
>>> Some advocate to have the batteries split into “main” and “spare”. Many 
>>> good marine batteries can be used as dual purpose. If you design your 
>>> system this way, you start on the “main”, it gets charged by the 
>>> alternator and the echo charger maintains the “spare”.
>>>  
>>> If I remember correctly, you have a solar system, as well. Many charge 
>>> controllers have a dual battery option and they can be setup to charge 
>>> the “main” battery first and then charge the “spare” (mine has a 
>>> selectable 50/50 or 90/10 split).
>>>  
>>> If you are interested, you can check some of Main Sail’s articles on 
>>> that topic at Sailboat Owners or at his web site 
>>> (http://www.pbase.co

Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

[Rich Knowles via CnC-List]

Nothing wrong with that.  It works for those who pay good attention to 
switching and consumption. For those who don't, it's an invitation for trouble. 

Rich

> On May 5, 2014, at 15:07, dwight via CnC-List  wrote:
> 
> Save yourself some trouble…use all deep cycle batteries, 2 golf cart 6V units 
> connected in series if possible or 2 deep cycle group 27’s, use the selector 
> switch to charge one bank at a time from the alternator…works for me and 
> seems quite simple…those 12V deep cycle batteries have way more than enough 
> cranking amps to start our sailboat engines in summer, so you can alternate 
> between bank 1 and bank 2 for starting or house, I do that regularly to make 
> sure both banks get taken down and require charging on a semi regular basis.
>  
> From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Marek 
> Dziedzic via CnC-List
> Sent: May 5, 2014 2:02 PM
> To: Edd Schillay; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries
>  
> Edd,
>  
> I don’t want to start a discussion on how to charge the batteries (as this 
> would be off topic), but starting from the ALL position has some major 
> disadvantages. One is that you might be hiding a problem with your starting 
> battery; two is that if one battery is weak, you would be charging that weak 
> battery from the strong one (you risk that if one is nearly dead, the other 
> would not start the engine, either, but instead would discharge to equalise 
> the voltage with the weak one).
>  
> No question (in my mind),  the best way is to start from the starting battery 
> (hence the name) and have the echo charger making sure that both batteries 
> are charged properly.
>  
> Some advocate to have the batteries split into “main” and “spare”. Many good 
> marine batteries can be used as dual purpose. If you design your system this 
> way, you start on the “main”, it gets charged by the alternator and the echo 
> charger maintains the “spare”.
>  
> If I remember correctly, you have a solar system, as well. Many charge 
> controllers have a dual battery option and they can be setup to charge the 
> “main” battery first and then charge the “spare” (mine has a selectable 50/50 
> or 90/10 split).
>  
> If you are interested, you can check some of Main Sail’s articles on that 
> topic at Sailboat Owners or at his web site 
> (http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/).
>  
> Marek (in Ottawa)
>  
> PS. Would “may the Force (May the 4th) be with you” apply, even if it is a 
> day late? I know it is mixing the references...
>  
> From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List
> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 10:58 AM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries
>  
> Rich,
>  
> Please do send around a diagram. I’m planning to do something similar — a 27 
> starting battery (as battery #2) and a 31 house bank (as battery#1).
>  
> When I want to start and run the engine, I will do so on ALL. That way the 
> alternator will charge both batteries. When sailing and “hanging out”, I 
> would switch to 1 only.
>  
> I have a solar panel and a dual battery regulator, which would connect to 
> both.
>  
> Two weeks to launch and still much to do…..
>  
>  
> 
> All the best,
>  
> Edd
>  
>  
> Edd M. Schillay
> Starship Enterprise
> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> City Island, NY
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
>  
> On May 5, 2014, at 10:38 AM, Rich Knowles via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> 
> The best method I have found and the least problematic from all points of 
> view is to have a dedicated starting battery that does nothing else but start 
> the engine, and a house battery that can be several batteries in parallel. 
> Ideally the house batteries will all be identical. I feed the alternator 
> directly to the house battery and use a device such as a Xantrex EchoCharge, 
> a small regulator, to keep the start battery charged. A simple 1/both/2 off 
> switch feeds the house load from either battery and acts as a combiner switch 
> if needed. I have a diagram I can send you if you wish.
>  
> I have wired many boats this way with no complaints or incidents. 
> 
> Rich Knowles
> Indigo. LF38
> Halifax. NS
> 
>> On May 5, 2014, at 10:47, via CnC-List  wrote:
>> In a pinch, I recently bought a 'starting' battery (Group 27) per my earlier 
>> post (no marine stores open after 6 on Saturdays)
>>  
>> Then I decided to get a replacement for my dead Lifeline AGM battery.
>>  
>> Of course, Murphy lurking about, I realized that my Zantrex Truecharge 40 
>> wants all the batteries it charges to be the same since
>> its charging schemes apply to all three outputs to the batteries.
>>  
>> Before I pull the 'rope-a-dope' of returning the starting battery, I need 
>> some list advice:
>>  
>> A lot of sailors suggest using a 'starting' battery exclusively for starting 
>> and using the house batteries for the house. I am aware that
>> an AGM can be used for starting as well.
>>  
>> However, if a 'starting' battery is better for thi

Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

[Rich Knowles via CnC-List]

Marek, this is not a money issue. It's merely a way of making sure that all 
batteries get due attention and are properly charged. All the people I've 
converted to this system have never been stuck for power to start their 
engines. 

The rant is just that. A rant. Nothing is really wrong, it's just that Xantrex 
assumes we are not all ignorant. 

Rich

> On May 5, 2014, at 14:52, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List  
> wrote:
> 
> Edd,
>  
> I am far from being an expert on charging systems, so whatever I say here is 
> based on my personal experience and what I have found from others.
>  
> The echo charger is a Xantrex device (I bet that others make one like that, 
> as well). WM sells it here: 
> http://www.westmarine.com/triple-blocks/xantrex--echo-charge-battery-charger—333669;
>  Defender here: 
> http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|328|2289962|2289976&id=93959 (for 
> $10 less).
>  
> It seems that it is a device that responds to exactly your issue – how to 
> keep a starting battery charged and separated from the house without any 
> overly complex (and costly) dual battery regulators.
>  
> Apparently, there is a caveat with it. You may want to read that rant by Main 
> Sail: 
> http://www.sailnet.com/forums/electrical-systems/72295-xantrex-echo-charger-rant.html.
>  There is nothing wrong with the device; only with the instruction manual 
> that comes with it.
>  
> Btw. Nothing is cheap (as usual with anything boat related). The Echo Charger 
> sells for about $120. maybe I should not use the word “cheap”, because I 
> think that this is a cheap insurance. But it is not necessarily a “low cost”. 
> After all, you would be spending $120 plus installation, plus rewiring, plus 
> some additional incidental costs in order to save a $100 battery or two.
>  
> Btw 2. I bet that a few of our (C&C List’s) electrical experts would have to 
> say a word or two on the subject.
>  
> Marek (in Ottawa).
>  
> From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List
> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 1:10 PM
> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
> Subject: Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries
>  
> Marek,
>  
> Very interesting. What exactly is an echo charger and how would I connect it?
>  
> The previous owner had two house bank 31s and a starter battery hooked up 
> parallel to one of them. That starter battery turned out to be dead and was 
> dragging the other down.
>  
> I replaced all with two new 31s about 4 years ago. Now one of those two is 
> dead and I don’t feel like dumping $300 on a replacement when I’m not running 
> on batteries for more than a few hours on any given day.
> 
> 
> All the best,
>  
> Edd
>  
>  
> Edd M. Schillay
> Starship Enterprise
> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
> City Island, NY
> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
>  
>> On May 5, 2014, at 1:01 PM, Marek Dziedzic  wrote:
>> 
>> Edd,
>>  
>> I don’t want to start a discussion on how to charge the batteries (as this 
>> would be off topic), but starting from the ALL position has some major 
>> disadvantages. One is that you might be hiding a problem with your starting 
>> battery; two is that if one battery is weak, you would be charging that weak 
>> battery from the strong one (you risk that if one is nearly dead, the other 
>> would not start the engine, either, but instead would discharge to equalise 
>> the voltage with the weak one).
>>  
>> No question (in my mind),  the best way is to start from the starting 
>> battery (hence the name) and have the echo charger making sure that both 
>> batteries are charged properly.
>>  
>> Some advocate to have the batteries split into “main” and “spare”. Many good 
>> marine batteries can be used as dual purpose. If you design your system this 
>> way, you start on the “main”, it gets charged by the alternator and the echo 
>> charger maintains the “spare”.
>>  
>> If I remember correctly, you have a solar system, as well. Many charge 
>> controllers have a dual battery option and they can be setup to charge the 
>> “main” battery first and then charge the “spare” (mine has a selectable 
>> 50/50 or 90/10 split).
>>  
>> If you are interested, you can check some of Main Sail’s articles on that 
>> topic at Sailboat Owners or at his web site 
>> (http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/).
>>  
>> Marek (in Ottawa)
>>  
>> PS. Would “may the Force (May the 4th) be with you” apply, even if it is a 
>> day late? I know it is mixing the references...
>>  
>> From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List
>> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 10:58 AM
>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries
>>  
>> Rich,
>>  
>> Please do send around a diagram. I’m planning to do something similar — a 27 
>> starting battery (as battery #2) and a 31 house bank (as battery#1).
>>  
>> When I want to start and run the engine, I will do so on ALL. That way the 
>> alternator will charge both batteries. When sailing and “hanging out”, I 
>> would switch to 1 only.
>>  
>> I have a solar panel and a dual battery regulator, which would connect to

Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

[Della Barba, Joe via CnC-List]

There are any number of ways to wire a boat. I have changed a few things, but I 
have always stuck with the principle that I can turn every light on, go ashore 
for a few days, and then come back to a dead house battery and hit the starter 
button and have the engine start right up and charge both banks without having 
to set any switches. The last time we were stuck with a dead battery was during 
hurricane Charlie and that was because one of them cracked and the acid leaked 
out.
I’ll post how mine are wired tonight sometime.
Joe Della Barba
Coquina
C&C 35 MK I
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rich Knowles 
via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 4:20 PM
To: Marek Dziedzic; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

Marek, this is not a money issue. It's merely a way of making sure that all 
batteries get due attention and are properly charged. All the people I've 
converted to this system have never been stuck for power to start their engines.

The rant is just that. A rant. Nothing is really wrong, it's just that Xantrex 
assumes we are not all ignorant.

Rich

On May 5, 2014, at 14:52, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List 
mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com>> wrote:
Edd,

I am far from being an expert on charging systems, so whatever I say here is 
based on my personal experience and what I have found from others.

The echo charger is a Xantrex device (I bet that others make one like that, as 
well). WM sells it here: 
http://www.westmarine.com/triple-blocks/xantrex--echo-charge-battery-charger—333669;
 Defender here: 
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|328|2289962|2289976&id=93959 (for 
$10 less).

It seems that it is a device that responds to exactly your issue – how to keep 
a starting battery charged and separated from the house without any overly 
complex (and costly) dual battery regulators.

Apparently, there is a caveat with it. You may want to read that rant by Main 
Sail: 
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/electrical-systems/72295-xantrex-echo-charger-rant.html.
 There is nothing wrong with the device; only with the instruction manual that 
comes with it.

Btw. Nothing is cheap (as usual with anything boat related). The Echo Charger 
sells for about $120. maybe I should not use the word “cheap”, because I think 
that this is a cheap insurance. But it is not necessarily a “low cost”. After 
all, you would be spending $120 plus installation, plus rewiring, plus some 
additional incidental costs in order to save a $100 battery or two.

Btw 2. I bet that a few of our (C&C List’s) electrical experts would have to 
say a word or two on the subject.

Marek (in Ottawa).

From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 1:10 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

Marek,

Very interesting. What exactly is an echo charger and how would I connect it?

The previous owner had two house bank 31s and a starter battery hooked up 
parallel to one of them. That starter battery turned out to be dead and was 
dragging the other down.

I replaced all with two new 31s about 4 years ago. Now one of those two is dead 
and I don’t feel like dumping $300 on a replacement when I’m not running on 
batteries for more than a few hours on any given day.

All the best,

Edd


Edd M. Schillay
Starship Enterprise
C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY
Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log

On May 5, 2014, at 1:01 PM, Marek Dziedzic 
mailto:dziedzi...@hotmail.com>> wrote:


Edd,

I don’t want to start a discussion on how to charge the batteries (as this 
would be off topic), but starting from the ALL position has some major 
disadvantages. One is that you might be hiding a problem with your starting 
battery; two is that if one battery is weak, you would be charging that weak 
battery from the strong one (you risk that if one is nearly dead, the other 
would not start the engine, either, but instead would discharge to equalise the 
voltage with the weak one).

No question (in my mind),  the best way is to start from the starting battery 
(hence the name) and have the echo charger making sure that both batteries are 
charged properly.

Some advocate to have the batteries split into “main” and “spare”. Many good 
marine batteries can be used as dual purpose. If you design your system this 
way, you start on the “main”, it gets charged by the alternator and the echo 
charger maintains the “spare”.

If I remember correctly, you have a solar system, as well. Many charge 
controllers have a dual battery option and they can be setup to charge the 
“main” battery first and then charge the “spare” (mine has a selectable 50/50 
or 90/10 split).

If you are interested, you can check some of Main Sail’s articles on that topic 
at Sailboat Owners or at his web site (http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/).

Marek (in Ottawa)

PS. Would “may the Force (May the 4th)

Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

[David via CnC-List]

I installed a Balmar Digital Duo.  Same as Echo Charger but apparently without 
the BS of a poorly written Manual.

It has been a fool proof system for over 7 years

David F. Risch
1981 40-2
(401) 419-4650 (cell)


Date: Mon, 5 May 2014 17:20:12 -0300
To: dziedzi...@hotmail.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries
From: cnc-list@cnc-list.com

Marek, this is not a money issue. It's merely a way of making sure that all 
batteries get due attention and are properly charged. All the people I've 
converted to this system have never been stuck for power to start their 
engines. 
The rant is just that. A rant. Nothing is really wrong, it's just that Xantrex 
assumes we are not all ignorant. 

Rich
On May 5, 2014, at 14:52, Marek Dziedzic via CnC-List  
wrote:






Edd,
 
I am far from being an expert on charging systems, so whatever I say here 
is based on my personal experience and what I have found from others.
 
The echo charger is a Xantrex device (I bet that others make one like that, 
as well). WM sells it here: 
http://www.westmarine.com/triple-blocks/xantrex--echo-charge-battery-charger—333669;
 
Defender here: 
http://www.defender.com/product.jsp?path=-1|328|2289962|2289976&id=93959 
(for $10 less). 
 
It seems that it is a device that responds to exactly your issue – how to 
keep a starting battery charged and separated from the house without any overly 
complex (and costly) dual battery regulators.
 
Apparently, there is a caveat with it. You may want to read that rant by 
Main Sail: 
http://www.sailnet.com/forums/electrical-systems/72295-xantrex-echo-charger-rant.html.
 
There is nothing wrong with the device; only with the instruction manual that 
comes with it.
 
Btw. Nothing is cheap (as usual with anything boat related). The Echo 
Charger sells for about $120. maybe I should not use the word “cheap”, because 
I 
think that this is a cheap insurance. But it is not necessarily a “low cost”. 
After all, you would be spending $120 plus installation, plus rewiring, plus 
some additional incidental costs in order to save a $100 battery or two.
 
Btw 2. I bet that a few of our (C&C List’s) electrical experts would 
have to say a word or two on the subject.
 
Marek (in Ottawa).


 

From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 1:10 PM
To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries
 
Marek, 

 
Very 
interesting. What exactly is an echo charger and how would I connect it? 
 
The previous 
owner had two house bank 31s and a starter battery hooked up parallel to one of 
them. That starter battery turned out to be dead and was dragging the other 
down. 
 
I replaced all 
with two new 31s about 4 years ago. Now one of those two is dead and I don’t 
feel like dumping $300 on a replacement when I’m not running on batteries for 
more than a few hours on any given day. 




All the best,
 
Edd
 
 
Edd M. 
Schillay
Starship 
Enterprise
C&C 37+ | 
Sail No: NCC-1701-B
City Island, NY 

Starship Enterprise's Captain's 
Log
 

On May 5, 2014, at 1:01 PM, Marek Dziedzic  
wrote:

  
  
  
  Edd,
   
  I don’t want to start a discussion on how to charge the batteries (as 
  this would be off topic), but starting from the ALL position has some major 
  disadvantages. One is that you might be hiding a problem with your starting 
  battery; two is that if one battery is weak, you would be charging that weak 
  battery from the strong one (you risk that if one is nearly dead, the other 
  would not start the engine, either, but instead would discharge to equalise 
  the voltage with the weak one).
   
  No question (in my mind),  the best way is to start from the 
  starting battery (hence the name) and have the echo charger making sure that 
  both batteries are charged properly. 
   
  Some advocate to have the batteries split into “main” and “spare”. Many 
  good marine batteries can be used as dual purpose. If you design your system 
  this way, you start on the “main”, it gets charged by the alternator and the 
  echo charger maintains the “spare”.
   
  If I remember correctly, you have a solar system, as well. Many charge 
  controllers have a dual battery option and they can be setup to charge the 
  “main” battery first and then charge the “spare” (mine has a selectable 50/50 
  or 90/10 split).
   
  If you are interested, you can check some of Main Sail’s articles on that 
  topic at Sailboat Owners or at his web site 
(http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/). 
  
   
  Marek (in Ottawa)
   
  PS. Would “may the Force (May the 4th) be with you” apply, even if it is 
  a day late? I know it is mixing the references...
  
  
   
  
  From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List 
  Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 10:58 AM
  To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com 
  Subject: Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries
   
  Rich, 

   
  Please do send 
  around a diagram. I’m planning to do something similar — a 27 starting 
battery 
  (as battery #2) and a 31 house bank (as battery#1).
   
  When I want 

Re: Stus-List CnC-List Digest, Vol 100, Issue 17

[Adam Marks via CnC-List]

attery; two is that if one battery is weak, you would be charging that 
>>> weak battery from the strong one (you risk that if one is nearly dead, the 
>>> other would not start the engine, either, but instead would discharge to 
>>> equalise the voltage with the weak one).
>>> 
>>> No question (in my mind),  the best way is to start from the starting 
>>> battery (hence the name) and have the echo charger making sure that both 
>>> batteries are charged properly.
>>> 
>>> Some advocate to have the batteries split into ?main? and ?spare?. Many 
>>> good marine batteries can be used as dual purpose. If you design your 
>>> system this way, you start on the ?main?, it gets charged by the alternator 
>>> and the echo charger maintains the ?spare?.
>>> 
>>> If I remember correctly, you have a solar system, as well. Many charge 
>>> controllers have a dual battery option and they can be setup to charge the 
>>> ?main? battery first and then charge the ?spare? (mine has a selectable 
>>> 50/50 or 90/10 split).
>>> 
>>> If you are interested, you can check some of Main Sail?s articles on that 
>>> topic at Sailboat Owners or at his web site 
>>> (http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/).
>>> 
>>> Marek (in Ottawa)
>>> 
>>> PS. Would ?may the Force (May the 4th) be with you? apply, even if it is a 
>>> day late? I know it is mixing the references...
>>> 
>>> From: Edd Schillay via CnC-List
>>> Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 10:58 AM
>>> To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>> Subject: Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries
>>> 
>>> Rich,
>>> 
>>> Please do send around a diagram. I?m planning to do something similar ? a 
>>> 27 starting battery (as battery #2) and a 31 house bank (as battery#1).
>>> 
>>> When I want to start and run the engine, I will do so on ALL. That way the 
>>> alternator will charge both batteries. When sailing and ?hanging out?, I 
>>> would switch to 1 only.
>>> 
>>> I have a solar panel and a dual battery regulator, which would connect to 
>>> both.
>>> 
>>> Two weeks to launch and still much to do?..
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> All the best,
>>> 
>>> Edd
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Edd M. Schillay
>>> Starship Enterprise
>>> C&C 37+ | Sail No: NCC-1701-B
>>> City Island, NY
>>> Starship Enterprise's Captain's Log
>>> 
>>>> On May 5, 2014, at 10:38 AM, Rich Knowles via CnC-List 
>>>>  wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> The best method I have found and the least problematic from all points 
>>>>  of view is to have a dedicated starting battery that does nothing else 
>>>> but start the engine, and a house battery that can be several batteries in 
>>>> parallel. Ideally the house batteries will all be identical. I feed the 
>>>> alternator directly to the house battery and use a device such as a 
>>>> Xantrex EchoCharge, a small regulator, to keep the start battery charged. 
>>>> A simple 1/both/2 off switch feeds the house load from either battery and 
>>>> acts as a combiner switch if needed. I have a diagram I can send you if 
>>>> you wish.
>>>> 
>>>> I have wired many boats this way with no complaints or incidents. 
>>>> 
>>>> Rich Knowles
>>>> Indigo. LF38
>>>> Halifax. NS
>>>> 
>>>>> On May 5, 2014, at 10:47, via CnC-List  wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> In a pinch, I recently bought a 'starting' battery (Group 27) per my 
>>>>> earlier post (no marine stores open after 6 on Saturdays)
>>>>> 
>>>>> Then I decided to get a replacement for my dead Lifeline AGM battery.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Of course, Murphy lurking about, I realized that my Zantrex Truecharge 40 
>>>>> wants all the batteries it charges to be the same since
>>>>> its charging schemes apply to all three outputs to the batteries.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Before I pull the 'rope-a-dope' of returning the starting battery, I need 
>>>>> some list advice:
>>>>> 
>>>>> A lot of sailors suggest using a 'starting' battery exclusively for 
>>>>> starting and using the house batteries for the house. I am aware that
>>>>> an AGM can be used for starting as well

Re: Stus-List CnC-List Digest, Vol 100, Issue 17

[Frederick G Street via CnC-List]

Adam — read directly below your email below:


Fred Street -- Minneapolis
S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(

On May 5, 2014, at 4:07 PM, Adam Marks via CnC-List  
wrote:

> Can I stop these somehow? Did not realize I would get so  many emails  
> everyday 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> On May 5, 2014, at 5:04 PM, via CnC-List  wrote:
> 
>> Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to
>>   cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>> 
>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>   http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>   cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com

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Re: Stus-List CnC-List Digest, Vol 100, Issue 17

[Rich Knowles via CnC-List]

Hope springs

Rich

> On May 5, 2014, at 18:19, Frederick G Street via CnC-List 
>  wrote:
> 
> Adam — read directly below your email below:
> 
> 
> Fred Street -- Minneapolis
> S/V Oceanis (1979 C&C Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI   :^(
> 
>> On May 5, 2014, at 4:07 PM, Adam Marks via CnC-List  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Can I stop these somehow? Did not realize I would get so  many emails  
>> everyday 
>> 
>> Sent from my iPhone
>> 
>>> On May 5, 2014, at 5:04 PM, via CnC-List  wrote:
>>> 
>>> Send CnC-List mailing list submissions to
>>>   cnc-list@cnc-list.com
>>> 
>>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit
>>>   http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
>>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to
>>>   cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com
> 
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Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

[Wally Bryant via CnC-List]

Yeah, I read it and agree with all points.  I just thought it was 
intuitively obvious, but then again most manuals say things like "to 
avoid electrocution, don't connect this equipment on a live circuit" 
 so he probably has a point.



You wrote:

The rant is just that. A rant. Nothing is really wrong, it's just that Xantrex 
assumes we are not all ignorant.



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Re: Stus-List CnC-List Digest, Vol 100, Issue 17

[Wally Bryant via CnC-List]

you wrote:

Can I stop these somehow? Did not realize I would get so  many emails  everyday


Well, you can set up your email system so you don't get them on your 
telephone.   Call me a Luddite, but I think telephones are for talking 
and computers are for email.


On a computer, you can delete emails en-mass.  I actually don't think 
there are that many emails.  Sometimes a thread goes viral, but then you 
can sort by subject and move on.


Wal

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Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

[Rich Knowles via CnC-List]

His rant made me think that a box of nails should include instructions on how 
to build a house.

Rich


On May 5, 2014, at 20:12, Wally Bryant via CnC-List  
wrote:

Yeah, I read it and agree with all points.  I just thought it was intuitively 
obvious, but then again most manuals say things like "to avoid electrocution, 
don't connect this equipment on a live circuit"  so he probably has a 
point.


You wrote:
> The rant is just that. A rant. Nothing is really wrong, it's just that 
> Xantrex assumes we are not all ignorant.


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Stus-List how to build a house

[dwight via CnC-List]

The instructions come with the hammer

-Original Message-
From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rich
Knowles via CnC-List
Sent: May 6, 2014 2:22 AM
To: w...@wbryant.com; cnc-list Cnc-List
Subject: Re: Stus-List Mixed batteries

His rant made me think that a box of nails should include instructions on
how to build a house.

Rich


On May 5, 2014, at 20:12, Wally Bryant via CnC-List 
wrote:

Yeah, I read it and agree with all points.  I just thought it was
intuitively obvious, but then again most manuals say things like "to avoid
electrocution, don't connect this equipment on a live circuit"  so he
probably has a point.


You wrote:
> The rant is just that. A rant. Nothing is really wrong, it's just that
Xantrex assumes we are not all ignorant.


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