Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to - now reefing
Agree with Andrew... Of course, that's easier to say when you're sailing a bigger boat. I have no problem going forward on Bojangles while at sea, but then the boat (at ~40,000 pounds fully loaded) is pretty stable, the foredeck is huge, the lifelines are high, and the toerail is 4 high. If I had to do the same in my J/24, I might be a bit reluctant. Cheers Colin On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 9:54 AM, Andrew Burton a.burton.sai...@gmail.comwrote: At sea, leaving a sail up and luffing is not an option, Dwight. Such is my comfort level on deck that I find that if I take care, I am in no particular danger when I go forward to reef. That comfort level is worth cultivating for the day when you have no choice but to go forward. Not that I fault your thinking in the least; it sounds a well-considered decision for coastal sailing. In extreme conditions, I would have the main and jib furled flying only a storm staysail or a towel-sized bit of jib unrolled. Andy CC 40 Peregrine On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 9:44 AM, dwight dwight...@gmail.com wrote: Andrew When it's time to reef on the fly (heavy weather) I prefer not to go up on deck myself or to ask anyone else to go there...I let her flap...its safer that way, I can afford a new sail if need be but I can't afford to lose a man overboard -- *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Andrew Burton *Sent:* February 7, 2014 10:36 AM *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to - now reefing If I don't feel like tying up the reef, I will pull (at least) the forward part of the excess sail to the weather side of the boom. That's puts an end to the flapping in most cases. If I put two reefs in, I make sure I pull on the first reef as well so the sail there's not as much sail hanging down. Andy CC 40 Peregrine On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 9:29 AM, sam.c.sal...@gmail.com wrote: And because they are not supposed to carry any load, the grommets for the nettles are placed about 3 to 4 below a line drawn between tack cringle and clew cringle. That way they just neaten up the flapping, lower piece of sail that's just been reefed. That's why there is only 1 or 2 thicknesses of Dacron to strengthen that area where the reefing grommets are. sam :-) *From: *dwight *Sent: *Friday, February 7, 2014 7:16 AM *To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Reply To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject: *Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to - now reefing Absolutely correct Marek -- *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Marek Dziedzic *Sent:* February 7, 2014 10:02 AM *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to - now reefing From what I know, the reef lines (going through cringles in the middle of the sail) are not supposed to carry any load. They are there only to prevent the reefed part of the sail from catching the wind and flying around. Only the tack (reefing hook/Cunningham) and the clew (outhaul plus lashing to the boom) are supposed to carry any loads. These little reef lines can be done later if needed. Marek -- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 19:01:30 -0500 From: Rick Brass rickbr...@earthlink.net To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Message-ID: 030e01cf2397$c1cee7b0$456cb710$@net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dwight; I get that you use a reef tack cringle like a Cunningham to tension the luff of the sail. My main has dog bones for both the 1st and 2nd reef that go over reef hooks on the gooseneck. What do you do about the outhaul for the reef cringle on the leach of the sail? And don't you need to put reef lines through cringles in the sail and tied around the boom to gather up and control the foot of the sail? Seems the sail would be pretty baggy with the foot loose to billow out, when the point in reefing is to keep the sail tight and flat. Rick Brass ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com -- Andrew Burton 61 W Narragansett Ave Newport, RI USA 02840 http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ phone +401 965 5260 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com -- Andrew Burton 61 W Narragansett Ave Newport, RI USA 02840 http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ phone +401 965 5260 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to - now reefing
One thing I try to do when neatening up a reefed sail is use ties of a contrasting color. That way they are pretty easy to see when it's time to shake the reef. I usually use sail ties for the job. Andy CC 40 Peregrine On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 9:01 AM, Marek Dziedzic dziedzi...@hotmail.comwrote: From what I know, the reef lines (going through cringles in the middle of the sail) are not supposed to carry any load. They are there only to prevent the reefed part of the sail from catching the wind and flying around. Only the tack (reefing hook/Cunningham) and the clew (outhaul plus lashing to the boom) are supposed to carry any loads. These little reef lines can be done later if needed. Marek -- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 19:01:30 -0500 From: Rick Brass rickbr...@earthlink.net To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Message-ID: 030e01cf2397$c1cee7b0$456cb710$@net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dwight; I get that you use a reef tack cringle like a Cunningham to tension the luff of the sail. My main has dog bones for both the 1st and 2nd reef that go over reef hooks on the gooseneck. What do you do about the outhaul for the reef cringle on the leach of the sail? And don't you need to put reef lines through cringles in the sail and tied around the boom to gather up and control the foot of the sail? Seems the sail would be pretty baggy with the foot loose to billow out, when the point in reefing is to keep the sail tight and flat. Rick Brass ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com -- Andrew Burton 61 W Narragansett Ave Newport, RI USA 02840 http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ phone +401 965 5260 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to - now reefing
Absolutely correct Marek _ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Marek Dziedzic Sent: February 7, 2014 10:02 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to - now reefing From what I know, the reef lines (going through cringles in the middle of the sail) are not supposed to carry any load. They are there only to prevent the reefed part of the sail from catching the wind and flying around. Only the tack (reefing hook/Cunningham) and the clew (outhaul plus lashing to the boom) are supposed to carry any loads. These little reef lines can be done later if needed. Marek -- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 19:01:30 -0500 From: Rick Brass rickbr...@earthlink.net To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Message-ID: 030e01cf2397$c1cee7b0$456cb710$@net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dwight; I get that you use a reef tack cringle like a Cunningham to tension the luff of the sail. My main has dog bones for both the 1st and 2nd reef that go over reef hooks on the gooseneck. What do you do about the outhaul for the reef cringle on the leach of the sail? And don't you need to put reef lines through cringles in the sail and tied around the boom to gather up and control the foot of the sail? Seems the sail would be pretty baggy with the foot loose to billow out, when the point in reefing is to keep the sail tight and flat. Rick Brass ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to - now reefing
And because they are not supposed to carry any load, the grommets for the nettles are placed about 3" to 4" below a line drawn between tack cringle and clew cringle. âThat way they just neaten up the flapping, lower piece of sail that's just been reefed. That's why there is only 1 or 2 thicknesses of Dacron to strengthen that area where the reefing grommets are. sam :-) From: dwightSent: Friday, February 7, 2014 7:16 AMTo: cnc-list@cnc-list.comReply To: cnc-list@cnc-list.comSubject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to - now reefing Absolutely correct Marek From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Marek Dziedzic Sent: February 7, 2014 10:02 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to - now reefing From what I know, the reef lines (going through cringles in the middle of the sail) are not supposed to carry any load. They are there only to prevent the reefed part of the sail from catching the wind and flying around. Only the tack (reefing hook/Cunningham) and the clew (outhaul plus lashing to the boom) are supposed to carry any loads. These little reef lines can be done âlaterâ if needed. Marek -- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 19:01:30 -0500 From: "Rick Brass" rickbr...@earthlink.net To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Message-ID: 030e01cf2397$c1cee7b0$456cb710$@net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Dwight; I get that you use a reef tack cringle like a Cunningham to tension the luff of the sail. My main has "dog bones" for both the 1st and 2nd reef that go over reef hooks on the gooseneck. What do you do about the outhaul for the reef cringle on the leach of the sail? And don't you need to put reef lines through cringles in the sail and tied around the boom to gather up and control the foot of the sail? Seems the sail would be pretty baggy with the foot loose to billow out, when the point in reefing is to keep the sail tight and flat. Rick Brass ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to
John I think if you use padeyes just below (about 6 inches) the gooseneck and forward of the center of the mast you may be able to get your reefed tack closer to the mast than with your setup _ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of j...@svpaws.net Sent: February 6, 2014 9:29 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Pretty much the same setup on Paws. The only difference is we run the tack line (Cunningham) from the mast base up through the cringle and then back to the mast base where it is tied off. Eliminates the figure eight knot but does create a chafe point. Never thought of eight knot - interesting idea. Will try it. We also removed the bones as they do get in the way. Does it tend to pull the sail to one side? John Sent from my iPad On Feb 6, 2014, at 7:25 PM, dwight dwight...@gmail.com wrote: Rick My sail has dog bones too.I run a high Cunningham, I put a figure 8 stooper knot in the line and run it up through a padeye on the port side of the mast below and forward of the boom, then up through the first reef cringle (dog bones still installed) and down to and through another padeye similarly installed on the starboard side of the mast to a block at the base of the mast to turning blocks on deck and then to a Lemar clutch on the coach house that I can tension from the cockpit with or without winch assistance, depends if I need the winch to get proper tension..I have not set up the second reef.If I needed that much main reef I would get rid of the main altogether and go headsail alone. I removed the hooks at the gooseneck, because I do not need them with this setup and the did get in the way sometimes. The outhaul for the first reef is fasten starboard side of boom and aft of first cringle when reefed, from there up through cringle and down to turning block on port side of boom and from there inside boom to gooseneck and down to turning block at base of mast, aft through deck organizer to similar Lewmar clutch on coach house which I can tension with the same winch. Both lines are led aft on starboard side of deck and my main halyard is on that side too, so all 3 needed control lines are on starboard side coach house and can be with the same winch, one after the other. I have a backup winch that I can use if the primary breaks. I have 4 winches on the coach house, 2 on each side. Maybe hard to visualize and I don't really have a good photo, but believe me this setup works like a charm for the first reef. I have autopilot but if I reef going to weather I have found that the boat will hold the course on her own while I reef.if she didn't I would engage the autopilot. Dwight CC 35 MKII, Alianna _ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rick Brass Sent: February 6, 2014 8:02 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Dwight; I get that you use a reef tack cringle like a Cunningham to tension the luff of the sail. My main has dog bones for both the 1st and 2nd reef that go over reef hooks on the gooseneck. What do you do about the outhaul for the reef cringle on the leach of the sail? And don't you need to put reef lines through cringles in the sail and tied around the boom to gather up and control the foot of the sail? Seems the sail would be pretty baggy with the foot loose to billow out, when the point in reefing is to keep the sail tight and flat. Rick Brass From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 8:28 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to I don't and I do it alone from the cockpit.drop the main off with the main sheet, let it flog, lower the halyard to predetermined spot, tension the high Cunningham on the mast to get the new tack in place, tension the main halyard, tension the main sheet.it's a little noisy with sail flap but isn't it always that way when you need to reef the main? Dwight CC 35 MKII, Alianna _ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Stevan Plavsa Sent: February 6, 2014 9:17 AM To: w...@wbryant.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Don't you guys heave to when you need to reef the main? Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 4:57 AM, Wally Bryant w...@wbryant.com wrote: I'm on the wrong boat. Jim Watts wrote: No, you just need somebody to make French Toast. Gale? What gale? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPOL8C4FPdc ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to - now reefing
If I don't feel like tying up the reef, I will pull (at least) the forward part of the excess sail to the weather side of the boom. That's puts an end to the flapping in most cases. If I put two reefs in, I make sure I pull on the first reef as well so the sail there's not as much sail hanging down. Andy CC 40 Peregrine On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 9:29 AM, sam.c.sal...@gmail.com wrote: And because they are not supposed to carry any load, the grommets for the nettles are placed about 3 to 4 below a line drawn between tack cringle and clew cringle. That way they just neaten up the flapping, lower piece of sail that's just been reefed. That's why there is only 1 or 2 thicknesses of Dacron to strengthen that area where the reefing grommets are. sam :-) *From: *dwight *Sent: *Friday, February 7, 2014 7:16 AM *To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Reply To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject: *Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to - now reefing Absolutely correct Marek -- *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Marek Dziedzic *Sent:* February 7, 2014 10:02 AM *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to - now reefing From what I know, the reef lines (going through cringles in the middle of the sail) are not supposed to carry any load. They are there only to prevent the reefed part of the sail from catching the wind and flying around. Only the tack (reefing hook/Cunningham) and the clew (outhaul plus lashing to the boom) are supposed to carry any loads. These little reef lines can be done later if needed. Marek -- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 19:01:30 -0500 From: Rick Brass rickbr...@earthlink.net To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Message-ID: 030e01cf2397$c1cee7b0$456cb710$@net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dwight; I get that you use a reef tack cringle like a Cunningham to tension the luff of the sail. My main has dog bones for both the 1st and 2nd reef that go over reef hooks on the gooseneck. What do you do about the outhaul for the reef cringle on the leach of the sail? And don't you need to put reef lines through cringles in the sail and tied around the boom to gather up and control the foot of the sail? Seems the sail would be pretty baggy with the foot loose to billow out, when the point in reefing is to keep the sail tight and flat. Rick Brass ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com -- Andrew Burton 61 W Narragansett Ave Newport, RI USA 02840 http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ phone +401 965 5260 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to - now reefing
At sea, leaving a sail up and luffing is not an option, Dwight. Such is my comfort level on deck that I find that if I take care, I am in no particular danger when I go forward to reef. That comfort level is worth cultivating for the day when you have no choice but to go forward. Not that I fault your thinking in the least; it sounds a well-considered decision for coastal sailing. In extreme conditions, I would have the main and jib furled flying only a storm staysail or a towel-sized bit of jib unrolled. Andy CC 40 Peregrine On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 9:44 AM, dwight dwight...@gmail.com wrote: Andrew When it's time to reef on the fly (heavy weather) I prefer not to go up on deck myself or to ask anyone else to go there...I let her flap...its safer that way, I can afford a new sail if need be but I can't afford to lose a man overboard -- *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Andrew Burton *Sent:* February 7, 2014 10:36 AM *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to - now reefing If I don't feel like tying up the reef, I will pull (at least) the forward part of the excess sail to the weather side of the boom. That's puts an end to the flapping in most cases. If I put two reefs in, I make sure I pull on the first reef as well so the sail there's not as much sail hanging down. Andy CC 40 Peregrine On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 9:29 AM, sam.c.sal...@gmail.com wrote: And because they are not supposed to carry any load, the grommets for the nettles are placed about 3 to 4 below a line drawn between tack cringle and clew cringle. That way they just neaten up the flapping, lower piece of sail that's just been reefed. That's why there is only 1 or 2 thicknesses of Dacron to strengthen that area where the reefing grommets are. sam :-) *From: *dwight *Sent: *Friday, February 7, 2014 7:16 AM *To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Reply To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject: *Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to - now reefing Absolutely correct Marek -- *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Marek Dziedzic *Sent:* February 7, 2014 10:02 AM *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to - now reefing From what I know, the reef lines (going through cringles in the middle of the sail) are not supposed to carry any load. They are there only to prevent the reefed part of the sail from catching the wind and flying around. Only the tack (reefing hook/Cunningham) and the clew (outhaul plus lashing to the boom) are supposed to carry any loads. These little reef lines can be done later if needed. Marek -- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 19:01:30 -0500 From: Rick Brass rickbr...@earthlink.net To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Message-ID: 030e01cf2397$c1cee7b0$456cb710$@net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dwight; I get that you use a reef tack cringle like a Cunningham to tension the luff of the sail. My main has dog bones for both the 1st and 2nd reef that go over reef hooks on the gooseneck. What do you do about the outhaul for the reef cringle on the leach of the sail? And don't you need to put reef lines through cringles in the sail and tied around the boom to gather up and control the foot of the sail? Seems the sail would be pretty baggy with the foot loose to billow out, when the point in reefing is to keep the sail tight and flat. Rick Brass ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com -- Andrew Burton 61 W Narragansett Ave Newport, RI USA 02840 http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ phone +401 965 5260 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com -- Andrew Burton 61 W Narragansett Ave Newport, RI USA 02840 http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ phone +401 965 5260 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to
On my new UK main the tie points are lightly sewn web loops backed onto a stronger reinforcing point. The sailmaker explained that sooner or later something will go wrong and the web loops will let go before the main is damaged. The loops are easier to work with. The previous main had grommets pressed in, had to fish the line through and reach around. Michael Brown Windburn CC 30-1 Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 19:54:00 -0800 From: Lee Youngblood leeyoungbl...@earthlink.net To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Reeflines make it look pretty Message-ID: a0624080acf1a07dc2bc7@[192.168.1.109] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 ; format=flowed Reeflines are a clever sail-makers trick. You'll want those - it's traditional right? If you tie them around the boom, you are sure to rip them out of the sail and split your main! Buy another main, and ask for a loose footed main. if you have to tie them, only loosely tie them around the sail - NOT THE BOOM! Sorry, my sailmaker friends my not like this post, but they know me. . . 2 cents, Lee ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to - now flalttening reef
My main still has one, but it's an older sail. It also has a cunningham at the other end, I can use both together as a small reef as well if I want. I also have a sliding gooseneck so I'd guess this sail wasn't built for this boat specifically. I like the range of controls that gives me over the sail and boom, although I will likely fix the gooseneck in the not too distant future. Cheers, Paul Orange Crush, 27MkII, Sidney, BC ex Tangerine, 24. On 14-02-07 06:48 AM, Richard N. Bush wrote: I used to race on a J-29 which had a reef point about a foot above the clew which we called a flattening reef. Nothing was done to the tack of the sail, but it would really help with being over powered in short course racing; they have apparently gone out of vogue or are now called something different; anyone know why or what happened to them? Thanks Richard 1985 37 CB frozen on the cradle Richard N. Bush Law Offices 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite 9 Louisville, Kentucky 40220 502-584-7255 -Original Message- From: Andrew Burton a.burton.sai...@gmail.com To: cnc-list cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Fri, Feb 7, 2014 9:36 am Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to - now reefing If I don't feel like tying up the reef, I will pull (at least) the forward part of the excess sail to the weather side of the boom. That's puts an end to the flapping in most cases. If I put two reefs in, I make sure I pull on the first reef as well so the sail there's not as much sail hanging down. Andy CC 40 Peregrine On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 9:29 AM, sam.c.sal...@gmail.com mailto:sam.c.sal...@gmail.com wrote: And because they are not supposed to carry any load, the grommets for the nettles are placed about 3 to 4 below a line drawn between tack cringle and clew cringle. That way they just neaten up the flapping, lower piece of sail that's just been reefed. That's why there is only 1 or 2 thicknesses of Dacron to strengthen that area where the reefing grommets are. sam :-) *From: *dwight *Sent: *Friday, February 7, 2014 7:16 AM *To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Reply To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject: *Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to - now reefing Absolutely correct Marek *From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Marek Dziedzic *Sent:* February 7, 2014 10:02 AM *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to - now reefing From what I know, the reef lines (going through cringles in the middle of the sail) are not supposed to carry any load. They are there only to prevent the reefed part of the sail from catching the wind and flying around. Only the tack (reefing hook/Cunningham) and the clew (outhaul plus lashing to the boom) are supposed to carry any loads. These little reef lines can be done later if needed. Marek -- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 19:01:30 -0500 From: Rick Brass rickbr...@earthlink.net mailto:rickbr...@earthlink.net To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Message-ID: 030e01cf2397$c1cee7b0$456cb710$@net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dwight; I get that you use a reef tack cringle like a Cunningham to tension the luff of the sail. My main has dog bones for both the 1st and 2nd reef that go over reef hooks on the gooseneck. What do you do about the outhaul for the reef cringle on the leach of the sail? And don't you need to put reef lines through cringles in the sail and tied around the boom to gather up and control the foot of the sail? Seems the sail would be pretty baggy with the foot loose to billow out, when the point in reefing is to keep the sail tight and flat. Rick Brass ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/ CnC-List@cnc-list.com mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/ CnC-List@cnc-list.com mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com -- Andrew Burton 61 W Narragansett Ave Newport, RI USA 02840 http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ phone +401 965 5260 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com http://www.cncphotoalbum.com/ CnC-List@cnc-list.com mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to - now flalttening reef
Paul, Why fix the gooseneck? The downhaul gives you more control. Not sure about the J29, but J30 class rules require a reef point. Many owners have an unreinforced grommet to satisfy the rule and they don't race if it is windy enough that they would need it. Joel 35/3 On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 10:44 AM, Paul Baker pauljba...@shaw.ca wrote: My main still has one, but it's an older sail. It also has a cunningham at the other end, I can use both together as a small reef as well if I want. I also have a sliding gooseneck so I'd guess this sail wasn't built for this boat specifically. I like the range of controls that gives me over the sail and boom, although I will likely fix the gooseneck in the not too distant future. Cheers, Paul Orange Crush, 27MkII, Sidney, BC ex Tangerine, 24. On 14-02-07 06:48 AM, Richard N. Bush wrote: I used to race on a J-29 which had a reef point about a foot above the clew which we called a flattening reef. Nothing was done to the tack of the sail, but it would really help with being over powered in short course racing; they have apparently gone out of vogue or are now called something different; anyone know why or what happened to them? Thanks Richard 1985 37 CB frozen on the cradle Richard N. Bush Law Offices 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite 9 Louisville, Kentucky 40220 502-584-7255 -Original Message- From: Andrew Burton a.burton.sai...@gmail.coma.burton.sai...@gmail.com To: cnc-list cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Fri, Feb 7, 2014 9:36 am Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to - now reefing If I don't feel like tying up the reef, I will pull (at least) the forward part of the excess sail to the weather side of the boom. That's puts an end to the flapping in most cases. If I put two reefs in, I make sure I pull on the first reef as well so the sail there's not as much sail hanging down. Andy CC 40 Peregrine On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 9:29 AM, sam.c.sal...@gmail.com wrote: And because they are not supposed to carry any load, the grommets for the nettles are placed about 3 to 4 below a line drawn between tack cringle and clew cringle. That way they just neaten up the flapping, lower piece of sail that's just been reefed. That's why there is only 1 or 2 thicknesses of Dacron to strengthen that area where the reefing grommets are. sam :-) *From: *dwight *Sent: *Friday, February 7, 2014 7:16 AM *To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Reply To: *cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject: *Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to - now reefing Absolutely correct Marek -- *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Marek Dziedzic *Sent:* February 7, 2014 10:02 AM *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to - now reefing From what I know, the reef lines (going through cringles in the middle of the sail) are not supposed to carry any load. They are there only to prevent the reefed part of the sail from catching the wind and flying around. Only the tack (reefing hook/Cunningham) and the clew (outhaul plus lashing to the boom) are supposed to carry any loads. These little reef lines can be done later if needed. Marek -- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 19:01:30 -0500 From: Rick Brass rickbr...@earthlink.net To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Message-ID: 030e01cf2397$c1cee7b0$456cb710$@net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dwight; I get that you use a reef tack cringle like a Cunningham to tension the luff of the sail. My main has dog bones for both the 1st and 2nd reef that go over reef hooks on the gooseneck. What do you do about the outhaul for the reef cringle on the leach of the sail? And don't you need to put reef lines through cringles in the sail and tied around the boom to gather up and control the foot of the sail? Seems the sail would be pretty baggy with the foot loose to billow out, when the point in reefing is to keep the sail tight and flat. Rick Brass ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com -- Andrew Burton 61 W Narragansett Ave Newport, RI USA 02840 http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ phone +401 965 5260 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Albumhttp://www.cncphotoalbum.comcnc-l...@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Albumhttp://www.cncphotoalbum.comcnc-l...@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to - now reefing
Andrew When it's time to reef on the fly (heavy weather) I prefer not to go up on deck myself or to ask anyone else to go there.I let her flap.its safer that way, I can afford a new sail if need be but I can't afford to lose a man overboard _ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Burton Sent: February 7, 2014 10:36 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to - now reefing If I don't feel like tying up the reef, I will pull (at least) the forward part of the excess sail to the weather side of the boom. That's puts an end to the flapping in most cases. If I put two reefs in, I make sure I pull on the first reef as well so the sail there's not as much sail hanging down. Andy CC 40 Peregrine On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 9:29 AM, sam.c.sal...@gmail.com wrote: And because they are not supposed to carry any load, the grommets for the nettles are placed about 3 to 4 below a line drawn between tack cringle and clew cringle. That way they just neaten up the flapping, lower piece of sail that's just been reefed. That's why there is only 1 or 2 thicknesses of Dacron to strengthen that area where the reefing grommets are. sam :-) From: dwight Sent: Friday, February 7, 2014 7:16 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Reply To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to - now reefing Absolutely correct Marek _ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Marek Dziedzic Sent: February 7, 2014 10:02 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to - now reefing From what I know, the reef lines (going through cringles in the middle of the sail) are not supposed to carry any load. They are there only to prevent the reefed part of the sail from catching the wind and flying around. Only the tack (reefing hook/Cunningham) and the clew (outhaul plus lashing to the boom) are supposed to carry any loads. These little reef lines can be done later if needed. Marek -- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 19:01:30 -0500 From: Rick Brass rickbr...@earthlink.net To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Message-ID: 030e01cf2397$c1cee7b0$456cb710$@net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dwight; I get that you use a reef tack cringle like a Cunningham to tension the luff of the sail. My main has dog bones for both the 1st and 2nd reef that go over reef hooks on the gooseneck. What do you do about the outhaul for the reef cringle on the leach of the sail? And don't you need to put reef lines through cringles in the sail and tied around the boom to gather up and control the foot of the sail? Seems the sail would be pretty baggy with the foot loose to billow out, when the point in reefing is to keep the sail tight and flat. Rick Brass ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com -- Andrew Burton 61 W Narragansett Ave Newport, RI USA 02840 http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ phone +401 965 5260 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to - now flalttening reef
I have seen that extra cringle offered by many sail makers (when I was shopping for the new sails last fall). Many included that extra cringle for no extra cost. Marek -- Message: 6 Date: Fri, 07 Feb 2014 07:44:03 -0800 From: Paul Baker pauljba...@shaw.ca To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to - now flalttening reef Message-ID: 52f4ff43.1000...@shaw.ca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; Format=flowed My main still has one, but it's an older sail. It also has a cunningham at the other end, I can use both together as a small reef as well if I want. I also have a sliding gooseneck so I'd guess this sail wasn't built for this boat specifically. I like the range of controls that gives me over the sail and boom, although I will likely fix the gooseneck in the not too distant future. Cheers, Paul ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to - now flalttening reef
I used to race on a J-29 which had a reef point about a foot above the clew which we called a flattening reef. Nothing was done to the tack of the sail, but it would really help with being over powered in short course racing; they have apparently gone out of vogue or are now called something different; anyone know why or what happened to them? Thanks Richard 1985 37 CB frozen on the cradle Richard N. Bush Law Offices 2950 Breckenridge Lane, Suite 9 Louisville, Kentucky 40220 502-584-7255 -Original Message- From: Andrew Burton a.burton.sai...@gmail.com To: cnc-list cnc-list@cnc-list.com Sent: Fri, Feb 7, 2014 9:36 am Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to - now reefing If I don't feel like tying up the reef, I will pull (at least) the forward part of the excess sail to the weather side of the boom. That's puts an end to the flapping in most cases. If I put two reefs in, I make sure I pull on the first reef as well so the sail there's not as much sail hanging down. Andy CC 40 Peregrine On Fri, Feb 7, 2014 at 9:29 AM, sam.c.sal...@gmail.com wrote: And because they are not supposed to carry any load, the grommets for the nettles are placed about 3 to 4 below a line drawn between tack cringle and clew cringle. That way they just neaten up the flapping, lower piece of sail that's just been reefed. That's why there is only 1 or 2 thicknesses of Dacron to strengthen that area where the reefing grommets are. sam :-) From: dwight Sent: Friday, February 7, 2014 7:16 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Reply To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to - now reefing Absolutely correct Marek From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Marek Dziedzic Sent: February 7, 2014 10:02 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to - now reefing From what I know, the reef lines (going through cringles in the middle of the sail) are not supposed to carry any load. They are there only to prevent the reefed part of the sail from catching the wind and flying around. Only the tack (reefing hook/Cunningham) and the clew (outhaul plus lashing to the boom) are supposed to carry any loads. These little reef lines can be done “later” if needed. Marek -- Message: 7 Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 19:01:30 -0500 From: Rick Brass rickbr...@earthlink.net To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Message-ID: 030e01cf2397$c1cee7b0$456cb710$@net Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Dwight; I get that you use a reef tack cringle like a Cunningham to tension the luff of the sail. My main has dog bones for both the 1st and 2nd reef that go over reef hooks on the gooseneck. What do you do about the outhaul for the reef cringle on the leach of the sail? And don't you need to put reef lines through cringles in the sail and tied around the boom to gather up and control the foot of the sail? Seems the sail would be pretty baggy with the foot loose to billow out, when the point in reefing is to keep the sail tight and flat. Rick Brass ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com -- Andrew Burton 61 W Narragansett Ave Newport, RI USA 02840 http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ phone +401 965 5260 ___ his List is provided by the CC Photo Album ttp://www.cncphotoalbum.com nc-l...@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to
DDrake 73 JH CC 26 On Feb 6, 2014, at 10:43 AM, Frederick G Street f...@postaudio.net wrote: Do they sell those at Defender? :^) Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( On Feb 5, 2014, at 10:57 PM, Jim Watts paradigmat...@gmail.com wrote: No, you just need somebody to make French Toast. Gale? What gale? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPOL8C4FPdc ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to
I'm on the wrong boat. Jim Watts wrote: No, you just need somebody to make French Toast. Gale? What gale? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPOL8C4FPdc ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to
Don't you guys heave to when you need to reef the main? Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 4:57 AM, Wally Bryant w...@wbryant.com wrote: I'm on the wrong boat. Jim Watts wrote: No, you just need somebody to make French Toast. Gale? What gale? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPOL8C4FPdc ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to
I don't and I do it alone from the cockpit.drop the main off with the main sheet, let it flog, lower the halyard to predetermined spot, tension the high Cunningham on the mast to get the new tack in place, tension the main halyard, tension the main sheet.it's a little noisy with sail flap but isn't it always that way when you need to reef the main? Dwight CC 35 MKII, Alianna _ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Stevan Plavsa Sent: February 6, 2014 9:17 AM To: w...@wbryant.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Don't you guys heave to when you need to reef the main? Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 4:57 AM, Wally Bryant w...@wbryant.com wrote: I'm on the wrong boat. Jim Watts wrote: No, you just need somebody to make French Toast. Gale? What gale? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPOL8C4FPdc ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to
Sometimes we'll heave to to reef. But if I have a Harken or Antal track or the like, I'm more likely to turn dead downwind and pull the sail down that way. The benefits to doing that include the fact that waves won't be sweeping the deck and the apparent wind is less. my old Dad always used to tell me that the best time to reef is when you first think about it. I've never regretted taking that advice. Andy CC 40 Peregrine On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Stevan Plavsa stevanpla...@gmail.comwrote: Don't you guys heave to when you need to reef the main? Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 4:57 AM, Wally Bryant w...@wbryant.com wrote: I'm on the wrong boat. Jim Watts wrote: No, you just need somebody to make French Toast. Gale? What gale? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPOL8C4FPdc ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com -- Andrew Burton 61 W Narragansett Ave Newport, RI USA 02840 http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ phone +401 965 5260 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to
When I did my CYA basic heaving to was one of the first things we learned, then we learned to reef the main while hove to. No flapping. Not saying it's the right way, just the way I was taught. When I was learning I took everything the instructor said as gospel. I'm still learning and now, mostly off of this list :) Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 8:30 AM, Andrew Burton a.burton.sai...@gmail.comwrote: Sometimes we'll heave to to reef. But if I have a Harken or Antal track or the like, I'm more likely to turn dead downwind and pull the sail down that way. The benefits to doing that include the fact that waves won't be sweeping the deck and the apparent wind is less. my old Dad always used to tell me that the best time to reef is when you first think about it. I've never regretted taking that advice. Andy CC 40 Peregrine On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Stevan Plavsa stevanpla...@gmail.comwrote: Don't you guys heave to when you need to reef the main? Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 4:57 AM, Wally Bryant w...@wbryant.com wrote: I'm on the wrong boat. Jim Watts wrote: No, you just need somebody to make French Toast. Gale? What gale? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPOL8C4FPdc ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com -- Andrew Burton 61 W Narragansett Ave Newport, RI USA 02840 http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ phone +401 965 5260 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to
I really can't say you shouldn't do just as the instructor said. Like most things in sailing there is more than one way to be successful. I like my way because it doesn't involve turning across the waves. and it keeps the deck fairly dry. One of the things I love about sailing is that we are all still learning; that's one of the things that makes it such an entertaining and life-long sport. Andy CC 40 Peregrine On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 8:51 AM, Stevan Plavsa stevanpla...@gmail.comwrote: When I did my CYA basic heaving to was one of the first things we learned, then we learned to reef the main while hove to. No flapping. Not saying it's the right way, just the way I was taught. When I was learning I took everything the instructor said as gospel. I'm still learning and now, mostly off of this list :) Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 8:30 AM, Andrew Burton a.burton.sai...@gmail.comwrote: Sometimes we'll heave to to reef. But if I have a Harken or Antal track or the like, I'm more likely to turn dead downwind and pull the sail down that way. The benefits to doing that include the fact that waves won't be sweeping the deck and the apparent wind is less. my old Dad always used to tell me that the best time to reef is when you first think about it. I've never regretted taking that advice. Andy CC 40 Peregrine On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Stevan Plavsa stevanpla...@gmail.comwrote: Don't you guys heave to when you need to reef the main? Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 4:57 AM, Wally Bryant w...@wbryant.com wrote: I'm on the wrong boat. Jim Watts wrote: No, you just need somebody to make French Toast. Gale? What gale? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPOL8C4FPdc ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com -- Andrew Burton 61 W Narragansett Ave Newport, RI USA 02840 http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ phone +401 965 5260 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com -- Andrew Burton 61 W Narragansett Ave Newport, RI USA 02840 http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ phone +401 965 5260 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to
You lose headway that way, it's not necessary to heave to in order to reef safely and the flap won't hurt your sail that much but if heaving to works for you and you like it then go for it.I was just saying what I do.bear in mind, I don't reef often.I will carry a fisherman's reef a long time before biting the bullet Dwight CC 35 MKII, Alianna _ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Stevan Plavsa Sent: February 6, 2014 9:51 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to When I did my CYA basic heaving to was one of the first things we learned, then we learned to reef the main while hove to. No flapping. Not saying it's the right way, just the way I was taught. When I was learning I took everything the instructor said as gospel. I'm still learning and now, mostly off of this list :) Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 8:30 AM, Andrew Burton a.burton.sai...@gmail.com wrote: Sometimes we'll heave to to reef. But if I have a Harken or Antal track or the like, I'm more likely to turn dead downwind and pull the sail down that way. The benefits to doing that include the fact that waves won't be sweeping the deck and the apparent wind is less. my old Dad always used to tell me that the best time to reef is when you first think about it. I've never regretted taking that advice. Andy CC 40 Peregrine On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Stevan Plavsa stevanpla...@gmail.com wrote: Don't you guys heave to when you need to reef the main? Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 4:57 AM, Wally Bryant w...@wbryant.com wrote: I'm on the wrong boat. Jim Watts wrote: No, you just need somebody to make French Toast. Gale? What gale? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPOL8C4FPdc ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com -- Andrew Burton 61 W Narragansett Ave Newport, RI USA 02840 http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ phone +401 965 5260 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to
No, she's on the wrong boat! What a cute cook! Younger than my daughters, though ;^( Bill Coleman CC 39 -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Wally Bryant Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 4:57 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to I'm on the wrong boat. Jim Watts wrote: No, you just need somebody to make French Toast. Gale? What gale? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPOL8C4FPdc ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to
Do they sell those at Defender? :^) Fred Street -- Minneapolis S/V Oceanis (1979 CC Landfall 38) -- on the hard in Bayfield, WI :^( On Feb 5, 2014, at 10:57 PM, Jim Watts paradigmat...@gmail.com wrote: No, you just need somebody to make French Toast. Gale? What gale? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPOL8C4FPdc ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to
Two questions Steve - what was the reason the CYA folks taught you to heave-to in order to reef? I would never think to do that but am sure there must be a situation where it makes sense, eg single handed and no autohelm? Andy - whats the Harken or Antal track do? When you head down isn't the main going to be on your spreaders and shrouds? I have always reefed by staying on course, and letting the main shake while putting in the reef. It seems to me that a shaking sail is easiest to get down due to loose cars/slugs, and the boat's also heeling less at that point. One thing DG does not have is a tack reef so that is a small project for this year, ie to completely manage the main from the cockpit. We generally have good wind where we are and I do find the 34 needs a reef fairly often. Cheers Steve Hood S/V Diamond Girl CC 34 Lions Head ON -- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 08:51:03 -0500 From: Stevan Plavsa stevanpla...@gmail.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Message-ID: caddevn6ugjcu0o92jfsk1nek6qfgecpy7p-tzcugcxwz3nh...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 When I did my CYA basic heaving to was one of the first things we learned, then we learned to reef the main while hove to. No flapping. Not saying it's the right way, just the way I was taught. When I was learning I took everything the instructor said as gospel. I'm still learning and now, mostly off of this list :) Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 8:30 AM, Andrew Burton a.burton.sai...@gmail.comwrote: Sometimes we'll heave to to reef. But if I have a Harken or Antal track or the like, I'm more likely to turn dead downwind and pull the sail down that way. The benefits to doing that include the fact that waves won't be sweeping the deck and the apparent wind is less. my old Dad always used to tell me that the best time to reef is when you first think about it. I've never regretted taking that advice. Andy CC 40 Peregrine On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Stevan Plavsa stevanpla...@gmail.comwrote: Don't you guys heave to when you need to reef the main? Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to
Having the Harken, Antal, or Strong track allows the main to come down without binding in the track. If it's plastered too hard against the spreaders, I just sheet it in a bit. If this isn't possible, then yes, I head up to unload the sail. But it's a much calmer operation to do it while heading off the breeze. A mistake that a lot of people make is trying to make way while maneuvering. Unless you're racing or have land to leeward, that's just not necessary and can actually lose you time if the conditions are bad enough. In 20 knots of breeze, heading away from the wind rather than into it changes your apparent wind speed from 25 to14; that's a huge difference. I would think the reason CYA taught to heave to while reefing was for a similar reason; everything on the boat is much calmer when hove to. Andy CC 40 Peregrine On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 11:45 AM, OldSteveH oldste...@sympatico.ca wrote: Two questions Steve - what was the reason the CYA folks taught you to heave-to in order to reef? I would never think to do that but am sure there must be a situation where it makes sense, eg single handed and no autohelm? Andy - whats the Harken or Antal track do? When you head down isn't the main going to be on your spreaders and shrouds? I have always reefed by staying on course, and letting the main shake while putting in the reef. It seems to me that a shaking sail is easiest to get down due to loose cars/slugs, and the boat's also heeling less at that point. One thing DG does not have is a tack reef so that is a small project for this year, ie to completely manage the main from the cockpit. We generally have good wind where we are and I do find the 34 needs a reef fairly often. Cheers Steve Hood S/V Diamond Girl CC 34 Lions Head ON -- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 08:51:03 -0500 From: Stevan Plavsa stevanpla...@gmail.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Message-ID: caddevn6ugjcu0o92jfsk1nek6qfgecpy7p-tzcugcxwz3nh...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 When I did my CYA basic heaving to was one of the first things we learned, then we learned to reef the main while hove to. No flapping. Not saying it's the right way, just the way I was taught. When I was learning I took everything the instructor said as gospel. I'm still learning and now, mostly off of this list :) Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 8:30 AM, Andrew Burton a.burton.sai...@gmail.comwrote: Sometimes we'll heave to to reef. But if I have a Harken or Antal track or the like, I'm more likely to turn dead downwind and pull the sail down that way. The benefits to doing that include the fact that waves won't be sweeping the deck and the apparent wind is less. my old Dad always used to tell me that the best time to reef is when you first think about it. I've never regretted taking that advice. Andy CC 40 Peregrine On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Stevan Plavsa stevanpla...@gmail.comwrote: Don't you guys heave to when you need to reef the main? Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com -- Andrew Burton 61 W Narragansett Ave Newport, RI USA 02840 http://sites.google.com/site/andrewburtonyachtservices/ phone +401 965 5260 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to
Steve, If I remember the explanation correctly it was because the boat settles right down and there's no drama with flogging sails, you can relax and take your time, even when short handed. If staying on course to reef, does that count when the wind is aft of the beam or does one head up? Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 11:45 AM, OldSteveH oldste...@sympatico.ca wrote: Two questions Steve - what was the reason the CYA folks taught you to heave-to in order to reef? I would never think to do that but am sure there must be a situation where it makes sense, eg single handed and no autohelm? Andy - whats the Harken or Antal track do? When you head down isn't the main going to be on your spreaders and shrouds? I have always reefed by staying on course, and letting the main shake while putting in the reef. It seems to me that a shaking sail is easiest to get down due to loose cars/slugs, and the boat's also heeling less at that point. One thing DG does not have is a tack reef so that is a small project for this year, ie to completely manage the main from the cockpit. We generally have good wind where we are and I do find the 34 needs a reef fairly often. Cheers Steve Hood S/V Diamond Girl CC 34 Lions Head ON -- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 08:51:03 -0500 From: Stevan Plavsa stevanpla...@gmail.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Message-ID: caddevn6ugjcu0o92jfsk1nek6qfgecpy7p-tzcugcxwz3nh...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 When I did my CYA basic heaving to was one of the first things we learned, then we learned to reef the main while hove to. No flapping. Not saying it's the right way, just the way I was taught. When I was learning I took everything the instructor said as gospel. I'm still learning and now, mostly off of this list :) Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 8:30 AM, Andrew Burton a.burton.sai...@gmail.comwrote: Sometimes we'll heave to to reef. But if I have a Harken or Antal track or the like, I'm more likely to turn dead downwind and pull the sail down that way. The benefits to doing that include the fact that waves won't be sweeping the deck and the apparent wind is less. my old Dad always used to tell me that the best time to reef is when you first think about it. I've never regretted taking that advice. Andy CC 40 Peregrine On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 8:17 AM, Stevan Plavsa stevanpla...@gmail.comwrote: Don't you guys heave to when you need to reef the main? Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to
Steve, I have seldom ever wanted to reef with the wind aft, usually am shaking out the reef. But needing to get it back in again before changing course to windward, and then yes I would try to head up enough to get the main shaking and put in the reef. If it's that windy I'm not likely to be flying a chute, so the whole process is not complicated. Andy I get that now - nice system. I did run into a situation two years ago where my wife and I were racing (short handed). We had a strong quartering sea, flying our #3 and full main on a beam to broad reach. Auto does not do well at the helm in those conditions and we needed to get a reef in before the leeward mark. Other boats with full mains were rounding up, we were doing ok, but definitely needed that reef really soon. Because I couldn't leave the helm (my wife was a learning sailor at the time) we couldn't reef and ended up retiring from the race. In hindsight could we have hove to and put in the reef? Maybe but again it was a race, that would have lost a lot of time. Like other posters, I will be experimenting with heaving-to this summer to see how it works. Having learned to sail first by racing, I don't naturally consider heaving to or heading off my course to put in a reef, but they certainly all work, and some with less stress than others! Just don't tell my wife there's an easier way . . . ;-) When cruising I guess I suffer the curse of a racer - always trying to get the boat trimmed the best it can be and to steer the shortest course between A and B. Cheers, Steve Hood S/V Diamond Girl CC 34 Lions Head ON -- Message: 6 Date: Thu, 6 Feb 2014 11:55:18 -0500 From: Stevan Plavsa stevanpla...@gmail.com To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Message-ID: CADdEvn5zWk0Dgh6B-AWaWsZ8jwxoi-eSHxio+C40cWDrU=p...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 Steve, If I remember the explanation correctly it was because the boat settles right down and there's no drama with flogging sails, you can relax and take your time, even when short handed. If staying on course to reef, does that count when the wind is aft of the beam or does one head up? Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 11:45 AM, OldSteveH oldste...@sympatico.ca wrote: Two questions Steve - what was the reason the CYA folks taught you to heave-to in order to reef? I would never think to do that but am sure there must be a situation where it makes sense, eg single handed and no autohelm? Andy - whats the Harken or Antal track do? When you head down isn't the main going to be on your spreaders and shrouds? I have always reefed by staying on course, and letting the main shake while putting in the reef. It seems to me that a shaking sail is easiest to get down due to loose cars/slugs, and the boat's also heeling less at that point. One thing DG does not have is a tack reef so that is a small project for this year, ie to completely manage the main from the cockpit. We generally have good wind where we are and I do find the 34 needs a reef fairly often. Cheers Steve Hood S/V Diamond Girl CC 34 Lions Head ON -- ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to
... I have seldom ever wanted to reef with the wind aft ... On a delivery of a 56' modern fast cruiser (carbon mast/boom etc.) from Seattle to San Francisco we had 20 hours of fast downwind sailing with winds in the 35 to 45 range with seas to match. All four aboard were experience racers and offshore sailors (the owner had seen 250K offshore miles). There was heated competition for high speed of the day while avoiding making a pile of carbon splinters. (I had held one day's speed record at 24 knots on an extended surf in the middle of a 45 knot gust.) The sail plan for those conditions was 1 or 2 reefs and a poled out #3, sometimes partially rolled up. IIRC the boat had an Antal system on the mast with full battens. We were able to add or shake reefs downwind at will to keep the boat moving fast but within the abilities of boat and crew to handle the conditions. With larger, powerful sail plans the lower friction mainsail luff systems (Calypso has the Harken Batt cars) I consider the ability to quickly reduce sail area upwind or down is a safety and seamanship issue. I am able to singlehandedly put the first reef in Calypso's mainsail in less than 3 minutes under most conditions. I did heave to reef once while sailing singlehanded in what started as a nice 20 TWS that quickly became 30 with gusts to 35. I rolled up some of the #3, tacked without releasing the sheet. Once the boat settle in a little I was able to put in the reef (all lines at the mast) with significantly less motion on deck. I do recall thinking to myself that setting out on Calypso, singlehanded in these conditions could be my last mistake and have been more conservative since. It was not the actual sailing, it was the ability to recover from a mistake or equipment failure so close to land that was a concern. Martin Calypso 1971 CC 43 Seattle -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of OldSteveH Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 10:08 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Steve, I have seldom ever wanted to reef with the wind aft, usually am shaking out the reef. But needing to get it back in again before changing course to windward, and then yes I would try to head up enough to get the main shaking and put in the reef. If it's that windy I'm not likely to be flying a chute, so the whole process is not complicated. Andy I get that now - nice system. I did run into a situation two years ago where my wife and I were racing (shorthanded). We had a strong quartering sea, flying our #3 and full main on a beam to broad reach. Auto does not do well at the helm in those conditions and we needed to get a reef in before the leeward mark. Other boats with full mains were rounding up, we were doing ok, but definitely needed that reef really soon. Because I couldn't leave the helm (my wife was a learning sailor at the time) we couldn't reef and ended up retiring from the race. In hindsight could we have hove to and put in the reef? Maybe but again it was a race, that would have lost a lot of time. Like other posters, I will be experimenting with heaving-to this summer to see how it works. Having learned to sail first by racing, I don't naturally consider heaving to or heading off my course to put in a reef, but they certainly all work, and some with less stress than others! Just don't tell my wife there's an easier way . . . ;-) When cruising I guess I suffer the curse of a racer - always trying to get the boat trimmed the best it can be and to steer the shortest course between A and B. Cheers, Steve Hood S/V Diamond Girl CC 34 Lions Head ON ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to
Dwight; I get that you use a reef tack cringle like a Cunningham to tension the luff of the sail. My main has dog bones for both the 1st and 2nd reef that go over reef hooks on the gooseneck. What do you do about the outhaul for the reef cringle on the leach of the sail? And don't you need to put reef lines through cringles in the sail and tied around the boom to gather up and control the foot of the sail? Seems the sail would be pretty baggy with the foot loose to billow out, when the point in reefing is to keep the sail tight and flat. Rick Brass From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 8:28 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to I don't and I do it alone from the cockpit.drop the main off with the main sheet, let it flog, lower the halyard to predetermined spot, tension the high Cunningham on the mast to get the new tack in place, tension the main halyard, tension the main sheet.it's a little noisy with sail flap but isn't it always that way when you need to reef the main? Dwight CC 35 MKII, Alianna _ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Stevan Plavsa Sent: February 6, 2014 9:17 AM To: w...@wbryant.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Don't you guys heave to when you need to reef the main? Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 4:57 AM, Wally Bryant w...@wbryant.com wrote: I'm on the wrong boat. Jim Watts wrote: No, you just need somebody to make French Toast. Gale? What gale? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPOL8C4FPdc ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to
I have to agree, Andrew. Sailing is a lot like golf, the saying goes. Anyone can do it. And everyone can do it better. When Tiger Woods was burning up the tour, he still hit 300 practice balls every day. Rick Brass From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Burton Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 8:57 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to One of the things I love about sailing is that we are all still learning; that's one of the things that makes it such an entertaining and life-long sport. Andy CC 40 Peregrine ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to
I never want to reef with the wind coming in over the stern...In fact I think that would be a very hard way to do it -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Martin DeYoung Sent: February 6, 2014 7:58 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to ... I have seldom ever wanted to reef with the wind aft ... On a delivery of a 56' modern fast cruiser (carbon mast/boom etc.) from Seattle to San Francisco we had 20 hours of fast downwind sailing with winds in the 35 to 45 range with seas to match. All four aboard were experience racers and offshore sailors (the owner had seen 250K offshore miles). There was heated competition for high speed of the day while avoiding making a pile of carbon splinters. (I had held one day's speed record at 24 knots on an extended surf in the middle of a 45 knot gust.) The sail plan for those conditions was 1 or 2 reefs and a poled out #3, sometimes partially rolled up. IIRC the boat had an Antal system on the mast with full battens. We were able to add or shake reefs downwind at will to keep the boat moving fast but within the abilities of boat and crew to handle the conditions. With larger, powerful sail plans the lower friction mainsail luff systems (Calypso has the Harken Batt cars) I consider the ability to quickly reduce sail area upwind or down is a safety and seamanship issue. I am able to singlehandedly put the first reef in Calypso's mainsail in less than 3 minutes under most conditions. I did heave to reef once while sailing singlehanded in what started as a nice 20 TWS that quickly became 30 with gusts to 35. I rolled up some of the #3, tacked without releasing the sheet. Once the boat settle in a little I was able to put in the reef (all lines at the mast) with significantly less motion on deck. I do recall thinking to myself that setting out on Calypso, singlehanded in these conditions could be my last mistake and have been more conservative since. It was not the actual sailing, it was the ability to recover from a mistake or equipment failure so close to land that was a concern. Martin Calypso 1971 CC 43 Seattle -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of OldSteveH Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 10:08 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Steve, I have seldom ever wanted to reef with the wind aft, usually am shaking out the reef. But needing to get it back in again before changing course to windward, and then yes I would try to head up enough to get the main shaking and put in the reef. If it's that windy I'm not likely to be flying a chute, so the whole process is not complicated. Andy I get that now - nice system. I did run into a situation two years ago where my wife and I were racing (shorthanded). We had a strong quartering sea, flying our #3 and full main on a beam to broad reach. Auto does not do well at the helm in those conditions and we needed to get a reef in before the leeward mark. Other boats with full mains were rounding up, we were doing ok, but definitely needed that reef really soon. Because I couldn't leave the helm (my wife was a learning sailor at the time) we couldn't reef and ended up retiring from the race. In hindsight could we have hove to and put in the reef? Maybe but again it was a race, that would have lost a lot of time. Like other posters, I will be experimenting with heaving-to this summer to see how it works. Having learned to sail first by racing, I don't naturally consider heaving to or heading off my course to put in a reef, but they certainly all work, and some with less stress than others! Just don't tell my wife there's an easier way . . . ;-) When cruising I guess I suffer the curse of a racer - always trying to get the boat trimmed the best it can be and to steer the shortest course between A and B. Cheers, Steve Hood S/V Diamond Girl CC 34 Lions Head ON ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to
I consider that knowing how to heave-to is one of the most important things I have learned especially when single-handing in a boat that does not have a reliable Otto. Tack without moving the jib over, then rudder/tiller hard over towards the boom and secured, then balance the two sails to reduce the speed as much as possible. In some conditions I have still been covering ground so you need to have plenty of sea-room. I've used this manoeuvre for many of the things that others have mentioned, but have to say that at 74 I think the red-head window is closing fast.. Patrick Wesley, The Boat, 24, Sidney BC On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 4:01 PM, Rick Brass rickbr...@earthlink.net wrote: Dwight; I get that you use a reef tack cringle like a Cunningham to tension the luff of the sail. My main has dog bones for both the 1st and 2nd reef that go over reef hooks on the gooseneck. What do you do about the outhaul for the reef cringle on the leach of the sail? And don't you need to put reef lines through cringles in the sail and tied around the boom to gather up and control the foot of the sail? Seems the sail would be pretty baggy with the foot loose to billow out, when the point in reefing is to keep the sail tight and flat. Rick Brass *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of * dwight *Sent:* Thursday, February 06, 2014 8:28 AM *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to I don't and I do it alone from the cockpit...drop the main off with the main sheet, let it flog, lower the halyard to predetermined spot, tension the high Cunningham on the mast to get the new tack in place, tension the main halyard, tension the main sheet...it's a little noisy with sail flap but isn't it always that way when you need to reef the main? Dwight CC 35 MKII, Alianna -- *From:* CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.comcnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Stevan Plavsa *Sent:* February 6, 2014 9:17 AM *To:* w...@wbryant.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Don't you guys heave to when you need to reef the main? Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 4:57 AM, Wally Bryant w...@wbryant.com wrote: I'm on the wrong boat. Jim Watts wrote: No, you just need somebody to make French Toast. Gale? What gale? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPOL8C4FPdc ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com -- Patrick H. Wesley 4068 Licorice Lane, Victoria BC Canada V8X 0A2 1 250 370 0547; mobile 1 250 380 8959 hickl...@telus.net ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to
reef lines tied around the boom I've never done that and consider it more a make it look pretty thing. You're only talking about a few feet of sail controlled by the original outhaul and the new outhaul at the reef point. It's pretty well sandwiched in there. Same for the second reef although that does get a bit sloppy. What Dwight describes is pretty much textbook for a double line reefing system. John Sent from my iPad On Feb 6, 2014, at 7:01 PM, Rick Brass rickbr...@earthlink.net wrote: Dwight; I get that you use a reef tack cringle like a Cunningham to tension the luff of the sail. My main has “dog bones” for both the 1st and 2nd reef that go over reef hooks on the gooseneck. What do you do about the outhaul for the reef cringle on the leach of the sail? And don’t you need to put reef lines through cringles in the sail and tied around the boom to gather up and control the foot of the sail? Seems the sail would be pretty baggy with the foot loose to billow out, when the point in reefing is to keep the sail tight and flat. Rick Brass From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 8:28 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to I don’t and I do it alone from the cockpit…drop the main off with the main sheet, let it flog, lower the halyard to predetermined spot, tension the high Cunningham on the mast to get the new tack in place, tension the main halyard, tension the main sheet…it’s a little noisy with sail flap but isn’t it always that way when you need to reef the main? Dwight CC 35 MKII, Alianna From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Stevan Plavsa Sent: February 6, 2014 9:17 AM To: w...@wbryant.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Don't you guys heave to when you need to reef the main? Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 4:57 AM, Wally Bryant w...@wbryant.com wrote: I'm on the wrong boat. Jim Watts wrote: No, you just need somebody to make French Toast. Gale? What gale? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPOL8C4FPdc ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to
Rick My sail has dog bones too.I run a high Cunningham, I put a figure 8 stooper knot in the line and run it up through a padeye on the port side of the mast below and forward of the boom, then up through the first reef cringle (dog bones still installed) and down to and through another padeye similarly installed on the starboard side of the mast to a block at the base of the mast to turning blocks on deck and then to a Lemar clutch on the coach house that I can tension from the cockpit with or without winch assistance, depends if I need the winch to get proper tension..I have not set up the second reef.If I needed that much main reef I would get rid of the main altogether and go headsail alone. I removed the hooks at the gooseneck, because I do not need them with this setup and the did get in the way sometimes. The outhaul for the first reef is fasten starboard side of boom and aft of first cringle when reefed, from there up through cringle and down to turning block on port side of boom and from there inside boom to gooseneck and down to turning block at base of mast, aft through deck organizer to similar Lewmar clutch on coach house which I can tension with the same winch. Both lines are led aft on starboard side of deck and my main halyard is on that side too, so all 3 needed control lines are on starboard side coach house and can be with the same winch, one after the other. I have a backup winch that I can use if the primary breaks. I have 4 winches on the coach house, 2 on each side. Maybe hard to visualize and I don't really have a good photo, but believe me this setup works like a charm for the first reef. I have autopilot but if I reef going to weather I have found that the boat will hold the course on her own while I reef.if she didn't I would engage the autopilot. Dwight CC 35 MKII, Alianna _ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rick Brass Sent: February 6, 2014 8:02 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Dwight; I get that you use a reef tack cringle like a Cunningham to tension the luff of the sail. My main has dog bones for both the 1st and 2nd reef that go over reef hooks on the gooseneck. What do you do about the outhaul for the reef cringle on the leach of the sail? And don't you need to put reef lines through cringles in the sail and tied around the boom to gather up and control the foot of the sail? Seems the sail would be pretty baggy with the foot loose to billow out, when the point in reefing is to keep the sail tight and flat. Rick Brass From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 8:28 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to I don't and I do it alone from the cockpit.drop the main off with the main sheet, let it flog, lower the halyard to predetermined spot, tension the high Cunningham on the mast to get the new tack in place, tension the main halyard, tension the main sheet.it's a little noisy with sail flap but isn't it always that way when you need to reef the main? Dwight CC 35 MKII, Alianna _ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Stevan Plavsa Sent: February 6, 2014 9:17 AM To: w...@wbryant.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Don't you guys heave to when you need to reef the main? Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 4:57 AM, Wally Bryant w...@wbryant.com wrote: I'm on the wrong boat. Jim Watts wrote: No, you just need somebody to make French Toast. Gale? What gale? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPOL8C4FPdc ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to
I never want to reef with the wind coming in over the stern... The conditions I described below were such we did not want to turn into the wind for any reason. The seas were averaging 24' and the big ones were in the 40' range with breaking tops. (Not unusual in June/July south of the Oregon/Calif border, north of San Francisco. This area is often called the Squash Zone owing to the Northwesterly winds being squashed between inshore and offshore high pressure cells.) This is the same area that more than a few new cruisers, often an older couple, are airlifted off a perfectly good boat because they have become exhausted and can no longer safely sail their boat. The first time (1977) I experienced the Squash Zone was aboard a CC 39 with the typical mainsail plastic slugs in a track. That mainsail would not reef downwind at any time. We spent a very exciting night over powered, unwilling to head back upwind to reef. IIRC that sail was tough to reef upwind, especially when wet. Sometimes it would take two crew to pull the sail down. One of the things to watch closely when reefing downwind with full battens is how they are located in relationship to the spreaders. In boisterous conditions with the wind aft the sail and battens will be pressed against the spreaders and rigging. On Calypso we will sheet in a little to pull the battens off the spreaders. Sheeting in does load the sail up a little but the Harken Batt cars have so little friction that the extra load does not create the need for more down force. Martin Calypso 1971 CC 43 Seattle -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 4:06 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to I never want to reef with the wind coming in over the stern...In fact I think that would be a very hard way to do it -Original Message- From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Martin DeYoung Sent: February 6, 2014 7:58 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to ... I have seldom ever wanted to reef with the wind aft ... On a delivery of a 56' modern fast cruiser (carbon mast/boom etc.) from Seattle to San Francisco we had 20 hours of fast downwind sailing with winds in the 35 to 45 range with seas to match. All four aboard were experience racers and offshore sailors (the owner had seen 250K offshore miles). There was heated competition for high speed of the day while avoiding making a pile of carbon splinters. (I had held one day's speed record at 24 knots on an extended surf in the middle of a 45 knot gust.) The sail plan for those conditions was 1 or 2 reefs and a poled out #3, sometimes partially rolled up. IIRC the boat had an Antal system on the mast with full battens. We were able to add or shake reefs downwind at will to keep the boat moving fast but within the abilities of boat and crew to handle the conditions. With larger, powerful sail plans the lower friction mainsail luff systems (Calypso has the Harken Batt cars) I consider the ability to quickly reduce sail area upwind or down is a safety and seamanship issue. I am able to singlehandedly put the first reef in Calypso's mainsail in less than 3 minutes under most conditions. I did heave to reef once while sailing singlehanded in what started as a nice 20 TWS that quickly became 30 with gusts to 35. I rolled up some of the #3, tacked without releasing the sheet. Once the boat settle in a little I was able to put in the reef (all lines at the mast) with significantly less motion on deck. I do recall thinking to myself that setting out on Calypso, singlehanded in these conditions could be my last mistake and have been more conservative since. It was not the actual sailing, it was the ability to recover from a mistake or equipment failure so close to land that was a concern. Martin Calypso 1971 CC 43 Seattle ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to
The 24 was pretty easy to heave to, nice big rudder meant I could heave to in 15+ true with the 115% genoa still up. Nice way to settle things down to catch a breath, sort out some boat issue or put a reef in when single handed. The 27 MkII on the other hand is a bit of a swine to get to heave to nicely, in anything more than about 8kts true I have to pull the genoa in to about 80% or less or it just overpowers the little rudder and I find myself with the wind coming over the rear quarter, heeling about 20degrees, not ideal. Unless I'm doing something wrong of course. At 40, the redhead would be fine, aside from any objections from the wife of course. Cheers, Paul Orange Crush, 27MkII, Sidney, BC. Ex. Tangerine, 24 On 14-02-06 04:11 PM, Patrick H. Wesley wrote: I consider that knowing how to heave-to is one of the most important things I have learned especially when single-handing in a boat that does not have a reliable Otto. Tack without moving the jib over, then rudder/tiller hard over towards the boom and secured, then balance the two sails to reduce the speed as much as possible. In some conditions I have still been covering ground so you need to have plenty of sea-room. I've used this manoeuvre for many of the things that others have mentioned, but have to say that at 74 I think the red-head window is closing fast.. Patrick Wesley, The Boat, 24, Sidney BC On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 4:01 PM, Rick Brass rickbr...@earthlink.net mailto:rickbr...@earthlink.net wrote: Dwight; I get that you use a reef tack cringle like a Cunningham to tension the luff of the sail. My main has dog bones for both the 1^st and 2^nd reef that go over reef hooks on the gooseneck. What do you do about the outhaul for the reef cringle on the leach of the sail? And don't you need to put reef lines through cringles in the sail and tied around the boom to gather up and control the foot of the sail? Seems the sail would be pretty baggy with the foot loose to billow out, when the point in reefing is to keep the sail tight and flat. Rick Brass *From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *dwight *Sent:* Thursday, February 06, 2014 8:28 AM *To:* cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to I don't and I do it alone from the cockpit...drop the main off with the main sheet, let it flog, lower the halyard to predetermined spot, tension the high Cunningham on the mast to get the new tack in place, tension the main halyard, tension the main sheet...it's a little noisy with sail flap but isn't it always that way when you need to reef the main? Dwight CC 35 MKII, Alianna *From:*CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] *On Behalf Of *Stevan Plavsa *Sent:* February 6, 2014 9:17 AM *To:* w...@wbryant.com mailto:w...@wbryant.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com *Subject:* Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Don't you guys heave to when you need to reef the main? Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 4:57 AM, Wally Bryant w...@wbryant.com mailto:w...@wbryant.com wrote: I'm on the wrong boat. Jim Watts wrote: No, you just need somebody to make French Toast. Gale? What gale? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPOL8C4FPdc ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com mailto:CnC-List@cnc-list.com -- Patrick H. Wesley 4068 Licorice Lane, Victoria BC Canada V8X 0A2 1 250 370 0547; mobile 1 250 380 8959 hickl...@telus.net mailto:hickl...@telus.net ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to
Are the dog bones referred to metal loops connected by a strap that are threaded through a cringle on the luff of the main? I have not heard that term used before. Charlie Nelson Water Phantom 36 XL/kcb Sent from my iPad On Feb 6, 2014, at 7:01 PM, Rick Brass rickbr...@earthlink.net wrote: Dwight; I get that you use a reef tack cringle like a Cunningham to tension the luff of the sail. My main has “dog bones” for both the 1st and 2nd reef that go over reef hooks on the gooseneck. What do you do about the outhaul for the reef cringle on the leach of the sail? And don’t you need to put reef lines through cringles in the sail and tied around the boom to gather up and control the foot of the sail? Seems the sail would be pretty baggy with the foot loose to billow out, when the point in reefing is to keep the sail tight and flat. Rick Brass From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 8:28 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to I don’t and I do it alone from the cockpit…drop the main off with the main sheet, let it flog, lower the halyard to predetermined spot, tension the high Cunningham on the mast to get the new tack in place, tension the main halyard, tension the main sheet…it’s a little noisy with sail flap but isn’t it always that way when you need to reef the main? Dwight CC 35 MKII, Alianna From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Stevan Plavsa Sent: February 6, 2014 9:17 AM To: w...@wbryant.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Don't you guys heave to when you need to reef the main? Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 4:57 AM, Wally Bryant w...@wbryant.com wrote: I'm on the wrong boat. Jim Watts wrote: No, you just need somebody to make French Toast. Gale? What gale? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPOL8C4FPdc ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to
Yes, which attach to the horns at the gooseneck. Dogs, geese and cattle apparently. John Sent from my iPad On Feb 6, 2014, at 9:01 PM, Charles Nelson cenel...@aol.com wrote: Are the dog bones referred to metal loops connected by a strap that are threaded through a cringle on the luff of the main? I have not heard that term used before. Charlie Nelson Water Phantom 36 XL/kcb Sent from my iPad On Feb 6, 2014, at 7:01 PM, Rick Brass rickbr...@earthlink.net wrote: Dwight; I get that you use a reef tack cringle like a Cunningham to tension the luff of the sail. My main has “dog bones” for both the 1st and 2nd reef that go over reef hooks on the gooseneck. What do you do about the outhaul for the reef cringle on the leach of the sail? And don’t you need to put reef lines through cringles in the sail and tied around the boom to gather up and control the foot of the sail? Seems the sail would be pretty baggy with the foot loose to billow out, when the point in reefing is to keep the sail tight and flat. Rick Brass From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 8:28 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to I don’t and I do it alone from the cockpit…drop the main off with the main sheet, let it flog, lower the halyard to predetermined spot, tension the high Cunningham on the mast to get the new tack in place, tension the main halyard, tension the main sheet…it’s a little noisy with sail flap but isn’t it always that way when you need to reef the main? Dwight CC 35 MKII, Alianna From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Stevan Plavsa Sent: February 6, 2014 9:17 AM To: w...@wbryant.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Don't you guys heave to when you need to reef the main? Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 4:57 AM, Wally Bryant w...@wbryant.com wrote: I'm on the wrong boat. Jim Watts wrote: No, you just need somebody to make French Toast. Gale? What gale? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPOL8C4FPdc ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to
Rick: If you're talking about the reef clew being secured to the boom before running through the cringle then absolutely agree. If you're suggesting that tying the foot of the sail to the boom every couple of feet with little pieces of line will somehow enhance sail shape, well... if you say so. It's just a loose footed sail. Use the usual techniques to flatten. Don't measure wind in true. 18-20 true going downwind probably won't require a reef (or a flat sail). It's all about apparent. Link to nice piece on various reefing configurations http://offshore-sailor.com/seamanship-and-boat-handling/5-reefing-systems.html Best John Sent from my iPad On Feb 6, 2014, at 9:34 PM, Rick Brass rickbr...@earthlink.net wrote: John; On my 38, the distance from the tack cringle to the outhaul cringle of the first reef is about 11 ½ feet. My first reef is somewhere between 4 and 5 feet above the loose foot of the sail, and amounts to just under 25% of the area of the main. So there is a lot of canvas that can belly out in the wind and add to the draft of the sail. If its blowing hard enough for me to reef the main – say something around 18-20 knots true – I want to get the sail as flat as possible. So I’ve never considered the reef lines tied around the boom to be a cosmetic thing. Rick Brass From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of j...@svpaws.net Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 7:20 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to reef lines tied around the boom I've never done that and consider it more a make it look pretty thing. You're only talking about a few feet of sail controlled by the original outhaul and the new outhaul at the reef point. It's pretty well sandwiched in there. Same for the second reef although that does get a bit sloppy. ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to
Pretty much the same setup on Paws. The only difference is we run the tack line (Cunningham) from the mast base up through the cringle and then back to the mast base where it is tied off. Eliminates the figure eight knot but does create a chafe point. Never thought of eight knot - interesting idea. Will try it. We also removed the bones as they do get in the way. Does it tend to pull the sail to one side? John Sent from my iPad On Feb 6, 2014, at 7:25 PM, dwight dwight...@gmail.com wrote: Rick My sail has dog bones too…I run a high Cunningham, I put a figure 8 stooper knot in the line and run it up through a padeye on the port side of the mast below and forward of the boom, then up through the first reef cringle (dog bones still installed) and down to and through another padeye similarly installed on the starboard side of the mast to a block at the base of the mast to turning blocks on deck and then to a Lemar clutch on the coach house that I can tension from the cockpit with or without winch assistance, depends if I need the winch to get proper tension..I have not set up the second reef…If I needed that much main reef I would get rid of the main altogether and go headsail alone. I removed the hooks at the gooseneck, because I do not need them with this setup and the did get in the way sometimes. The outhaul for the first reef is fasten starboard side of boom and aft of first cringle when reefed, from there up through cringle and down to turning block on port side of boom and from there inside boom to gooseneck and down to turning block at base of mast, aft through deck organizer to similar Lewmar clutch on coach house which I can tension with the same winch. Both lines are led aft on starboard side of deck and my main halyard is on that side too, so all 3 needed control lines are on starboard side coach house and can be with the same winch, one after the other. I have a backup winch that I can use if the primary breaks. I have 4 winches on the coach house, 2 on each side. Maybe hard to visualize and I don’t really have a good photo, but believe me this setup works like a charm for the first reef. I have autopilot but if I reef going to weather I have found that the boat will hold the course on her own while I reef…if she didn’t I would engage the autopilot. Dwight CC 35 MKII, Alianna From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rick Brass Sent: February 6, 2014 8:02 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Dwight; I get that you use a reef tack cringle like a Cunningham to tension the luff of the sail. My main has “dog bones” for both the 1st and 2nd reef that go over reef hooks on the gooseneck. What do you do about the outhaul for the reef cringle on the leach of the sail? And don’t you need to put reef lines through cringles in the sail and tied around the boom to gather up and control the foot of the sail? Seems the sail would be pretty baggy with the foot loose to billow out, when the point in reefing is to keep the sail tight and flat. Rick Brass From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 8:28 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to I don’t and I do it alone from the cockpit…drop the main off with the main sheet, let it flog, lower the halyard to predetermined spot, tension the high Cunningham on the mast to get the new tack in place, tension the main halyard, tension the main sheet…it’s a little noisy with sail flap but isn’t it always that way when you need to reef the main? Dwight CC 35 MKII, Alianna From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Stevan Plavsa Sent: February 6, 2014 9:17 AM To: w...@wbryant.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Don't you guys heave to when you need to reef the main? Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 4:57 AM, Wally Bryant w...@wbryant.com wrote: I'm on the wrong boat. Jim Watts wrote: No, you just need somebody to make French Toast. Gale? What gale? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPOL8C4FPdc ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to
Ok. You hadn't mentioned the outhaul in earlier posts (including an discussion some time ago about reefing from the cockpit vs. going to the cabin top), so I wondered what you did about the reef outhaul. Your setup sounds pretty conventional. On both my boats, the reef lines for the leach (I have both 1st and 2nd rigged on both boats) go to a winch mounted on the STBD side of the boom about 18 aft of the gooseneck. I actually prefer reefing from the cabin top - guess it's just what I'm used to. In Pamlico Sound and the Neuse, it can get pretty bouncy when the wind kicks up because the water is relatively shallow. Thin 4 foot waves spaced 12 feet apart. Two or three times a year I end up motor sailing with the main double reefed; it puts a bit of heel on the boat and the wind pressure makes the ride smoother. I make it a practice of tying reef lines around the boom to control the foot of the reefed main. Otherwise the draft of the sail becomes excessive. Rick Brass Imzadi -1976 CC 38 mk1 la Belle Aurore -1975 CC 25 mk1 Washington, NC From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 7:25 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Rick My sail has dog bones too.I run a high Cunningham, I put a figure 8 stooper knot in the line and run it up through a padeye on the port side of the mast below and forward of the boom, then up through the first reef cringle (dog bones still installed) and down to and through another padeye similarly installed on the starboard side of the mast to a block at the base of the mast to turning blocks on deck and then to a Lemar clutch on the coach house that I can tension from the cockpit with or without winch assistance, depends if I need the winch to get proper tension..I have not set up the second reef.If I needed that much main reef I would get rid of the main altogether and go headsail alone. I removed the hooks at the gooseneck, because I do not need them with this setup and the did get in the way sometimes. The outhaul for the first reef is fasten starboard side of boom and aft of first cringle when reefed, from there up through cringle and down to turning block on port side of boom and from there inside boom to gooseneck and down to turning block at base of mast, aft through deck organizer to similar Lewmar clutch on coach house which I can tension with the same winch. Both lines are led aft on starboard side of deck and my main halyard is on that side too, so all 3 needed control lines are on starboard side coach house and can be with the same winch, one after the other. I have a backup winch that I can use if the primary breaks. I have 4 winches on the coach house, 2 on each side. Maybe hard to visualize and I don't really have a good photo, but believe me this setup works like a charm for the first reef. I have autopilot but if I reef going to weather I have found that the boat will hold the course on her own while I reef.if she didn't I would engage the autopilot. Dwight CC 35 MKII, Alianna _ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rick Brass Sent: February 6, 2014 8:02 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Dwight; I get that you use a reef tack cringle like a Cunningham to tension the luff of the sail. My main has dog bones for both the 1st and 2nd reef that go over reef hooks on the gooseneck. What do you do about the outhaul for the reef cringle on the leach of the sail? And don't you need to put reef lines through cringles in the sail and tied around the boom to gather up and control the foot of the sail? Seems the sail would be pretty baggy with the foot loose to billow out, when the point in reefing is to keep the sail tight and flat. Rick Brass From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 8:28 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to I don't and I do it alone from the cockpit.drop the main off with the main sheet, let it flog, lower the halyard to predetermined spot, tension the high Cunningham on the mast to get the new tack in place, tension the main halyard, tension the main sheet.it's a little noisy with sail flap but isn't it always that way when you need to reef the main? Dwight CC 35 MKII, Alianna _ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Stevan Plavsa Sent: February 6, 2014 9:17 AM To: w...@wbryant.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Don't you guys heave to when you need to reef the main? Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 4:57 AM, Wally Bryant w...@wbryant.com wrote: I'm on the wrong boat. Jim Watts wrote: No, you just need somebody to make French Toast. Gale? What gale? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPOL8C4FPdc
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to
John; On my 38, the distance from the tack cringle to the outhaul cringle of the first reef is about 11 ½ feet. My first reef is somewhere between 4 and 5 feet above the loose foot of the sail, and amounts to just under 25% of the area of the main. So there is a lot of canvas that can belly out in the wind and add to the draft of the sail. If its blowing hard enough for me to reef the main – say something around 18-20 knots true – I want to get the sail as flat as possible. So I’ve never considered the reef lines tied around the boom to be a cosmetic thing. Rick Brass From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of j...@svpaws.net Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 7:20 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to reef lines tied around the boom I've never done that and consider it more a make it look pretty thing. You're only talking about a few feet of sail controlled by the original outhaul and the new outhaul at the reef point. It's pretty well sandwiched in there. Same for the second reef although that does get a bit sloppy. ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to
What I refer to is a woven strap through the cringle with a ss ring attached on each side so it can't be removed without cutting the strap _ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Charles Nelson Sent: February 6, 2014 10:01 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Cc: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Are the dog bones referred to metal loops connected by a strap that are threaded through a cringle on the luff of the main? I have not heard that term used before. Charlie Nelson Water Phantom 36 XL/kcb Sent from my iPad On Feb 6, 2014, at 7:01 PM, Rick Brass rickbr...@earthlink.net wrote: Dwight; I get that you use a reef tack cringle like a Cunningham to tension the luff of the sail. My main has dog bones for both the 1st and 2nd reef that go over reef hooks on the gooseneck. What do you do about the outhaul for the reef cringle on the leach of the sail? And don't you need to put reef lines through cringles in the sail and tied around the boom to gather up and control the foot of the sail? Seems the sail would be pretty baggy with the foot loose to billow out, when the point in reefing is to keep the sail tight and flat. Rick Brass From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 8:28 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to I don't and I do it alone from the cockpit.drop the main off with the main sheet, let it flog, lower the halyard to predetermined spot, tension the high Cunningham on the mast to get the new tack in place, tension the main halyard, tension the main sheet.it's a little noisy with sail flap but isn't it always that way when you need to reef the main? Dwight CC 35 MKII, Alianna _ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Stevan Plavsa Sent: February 6, 2014 9:17 AM To: w...@wbryant.com; cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Don't you guys heave to when you need to reef the main? Steve Suhana, CC 32 Toronto On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 4:57 AM, Wally Bryant w...@wbryant.com wrote: I'm on the wrong boat. Jim Watts wrote: No, you just need somebody to make French Toast. Gale? What gale? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPOL8C4FPdc ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to
I am a fan of conventional for some things.tying reef lines through the reef points is not these easiest thing to do when the weather is rough.on Alianna I would have to get up on the deck to do it.If I reef before leaving the mooring and I expect to use the reef all day, then I might do it _ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rick Brass Sent: February 6, 2014 10:23 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Ok. You hadn't mentioned the outhaul in earlier posts (including an discussion some time ago about reefing from the cockpit vs. going to the cabin top), so I wondered what you did about the reef outhaul. Your setup sounds pretty conventional. On both my boats, the reef lines for the leach (I have both 1st and 2nd rigged on both boats) go to a winch mounted on the STBD side of the boom about 18 aft of the gooseneck. I actually prefer reefing from the cabin top - guess it's just what I'm used to. In Pamlico Sound and the Neuse, it can get pretty bouncy when the wind kicks up because the water is relatively shallow. Thin 4 foot waves spaced 12 feet apart. Two or three times a year I end up motor sailing with the main double reefed; it puts a bit of heel on the boat and the wind pressure makes the ride smoother. I make it a practice of tying reef lines around the boom to control the foot of the reefed main. Otherwise the draft of the sail becomes excessive. Rick Brass Imzadi -1976 CC 38 mk1 la Belle Aurore -1975 CC 25 mk1 Washington, NC From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 7:25 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Rick My sail has dog bones too.I run a high Cunningham, I put a figure 8 stooper knot in the line and run it up through a padeye on the port side of the mast below and forward of the boom, then up through the first reef cringle (dog bones still installed) and down to and through another padeye similarly installed on the starboard side of the mast to a block at the base of the mast to turning blocks on deck and then to a Lemar clutch on the coach house that I can tension from the cockpit with or without winch assistance, depends if I need the winch to get proper tension..I have not set up the second reef.If I needed that much main reef I would get rid of the main altogether and go headsail alone. I removed the hooks at the gooseneck, because I do not need them with this setup and the did get in the way sometimes. The outhaul for the first reef is fasten starboard side of boom and aft of first cringle when reefed, from there up through cringle and down to turning block on port side of boom and from there inside boom to gooseneck and down to turning block at base of mast, aft through deck organizer to similar Lewmar clutch on coach house which I can tension with the same winch. Both lines are led aft on starboard side of deck and my main halyard is on that side too, so all 3 needed control lines are on starboard side coach house and can be with the same winch, one after the other. I have a backup winch that I can use if the primary breaks. I have 4 winches on the coach house, 2 on each side. Maybe hard to visualize and I don't really have a good photo, but believe me this setup works like a charm for the first reef. I have autopilot but if I reef going to weather I have found that the boat will hold the course on her own while I reef.if she didn't I would engage the autopilot. Dwight CC 35 MKII, Alianna _ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Rick Brass Sent: February 6, 2014 8:02 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to Dwight; I get that you use a reef tack cringle like a Cunningham to tension the luff of the sail. My main has dog bones for both the 1st and 2nd reef that go over reef hooks on the gooseneck. What do you do about the outhaul for the reef cringle on the leach of the sail? And don't you need to put reef lines through cringles in the sail and tied around the boom to gather up and control the foot of the sail? Seems the sail would be pretty baggy with the foot loose to billow out, when the point in reefing is to keep the sail tight and flat. Rick Brass From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of dwight Sent: Thursday, February 06, 2014 8:28 AM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to I don't and I do it alone from the cockpit.drop the main off with the main sheet, let it flog, lower the halyard to predetermined spot, tension the high Cunningham on the mast to get the new tack in place, tension the main halyard, tension the main sheet.it's a little noisy with sail flap but isn't it always that way when you need to reef the main? Dwight CC 35 MKII, Alianna _ From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com
Stus-List Re- heaving to
I've never tried heaving to - hope to test it out this summer gpfor practice. Now I just need a red head. Found this video - may be helpful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQTOfns6OjUfeature=youtube_gdata_player Mark On 5 Feb 2014 10:42, Della Barba, Joe joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov wrote: Heaving to is pretty easy to practice. Tack but don’t let the jib sheet go. On the new tack turn the wheel to windward. The rudder is trying to head you up and the backwinded jib is doing the opposite, so the boat kind of just sits there. Useful for making lunch or taking a dump if you have no autopilot. I have never tried it in really bad weather though. Joe Della Barba Coquina CC 35 MK I From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David Knecht Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 9:20 AM To: CnC CnC discussion list Subject: Re: Stus-List CC 41...offshore cnc models- now heaving to Hi Andy- I have never been in a situation where I feel the need to heave to, but I feel like I want to practice it in less than extreme conditions next summer. Can you describe the details of getting into this state and staying there? What I have read sounds simple, but I doubt anything is simple in high winds and 12 foot seas and that detail devil is always lurking nearby. Thanks- Dave On Feb 5, 2014, at 9:06 AM, Andrew Burton a.burton.sai...@gmail.com wrote: I once took a Swan 651 to weather in 12 foot seas. It wasn't comfortable, either. I think you'd need a pretty big boat... Usually, if I have 12 foot seas on the nose (and I'm not racing), I'm hove to, relaxing and waiting for the wind to shift, while I have a cuppa tea under the dodger, watching the scenery roll by. Life at sea doesn't have to be an overly (physically) strenuous endeavor. Andy CC 40 Peregrine David Knecht Aries 1990 CC 34+ New London, CT ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re- heaving to
No, you just need somebody to make French Toast. Gale? What gale? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pPOL8C4FPdc Jim Watts Paradigm Shift CC 35 Mk III Victoria, BC On 5 February 2014 20:49, M Bod drbod...@accesswave.ca wrote: I've never tried heaving to - hope to test it out this summer gpfor practice. Now I just need a red head. Found this video - may be helpful. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQTOfns6OjUfeature=youtube_gdata_player Mark On 5 Feb 2014 10:42, Della Barba, Joe joe.della.ba...@ssa.gov wrote: Heaving to is pretty easy to practice. Tack but don't let the jib sheet go. On the new tack turn the wheel to windward. The rudder is trying to head you up and the backwinded jib is doing the opposite, so the boat kind of just sits there. Useful for making lunch or taking a dump if you have no autopilot. I have never tried it in really bad weather though. Joe Della Barba Coquina CC 35 MK I From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of David Knecht Sent: Wednesday, February 05, 2014 9:20 AM To: CnC CnC discussion list Subject: Re: Stus-List CC 41...offshore cnc models- now heaving to Hi Andy- I have never been in a situation where I feel the need to heave to, but I feel like I want to practice it in less than extreme conditions next summer. Can you describe the details of getting into this state and staying there? What I have read sounds simple, but I doubt anything is simple in high winds and 12 foot seas and that detail devil is always lurking nearby. Thanks- Dave On Feb 5, 2014, at 9:06 AM, Andrew Burton a.burton.sai...@gmail.com wrote: I once took a Swan 651 to weather in 12 foot seas. It wasn't comfortable, either. I think you'd need a pretty big boat... Usually, if I have 12 foot seas on the nose (and I'm not racing), I'm hove to, relaxing and waiting for the wind to shift, while I have a cuppa tea under the dodger, watching the scenery roll by. Life at sea doesn't have to be an overly (physically) strenuous endeavor. Andy CC 40 Peregrine David Knecht Aries 1990 CC 34+ New London, CT ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album http://www.cncphotoalbum.com CnC-List@cnc-list.com
