Stus-List Re-Bedding / Filling Drilling w_Epoxy
Happy weekend all, I am going to start re-bedding some hardware on our boat. I’m going with butyl tape, but wanted to see what folks were using for “filling and drilling” holes in the deck/core with epoxy, etc. Is *Git Rot* appropriate for this job? I am looking for something easy to work with for when I have a spare hour or two, i.e. less mixing/disposing cleanup the better. Send suggestions and / or links to YouTube videos or other “How To” sites. Thanks, Kevin 30-2 PDX Kevin Driscoll Portland, Oregon 503 // 875 // 3493 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re-Bedding / Filling Drilling w_Epoxy
I basically follow the article on PBase to the letter...http://www.pbase.com/mainecruising/rebedding_hardware -- Original Message -- From: Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com To: CC List cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Stus-List Re-Bedding / Filling Drilling w_Epoxy Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2014 08:41:55 -0700 Happy weekend all, I am going to start re-bedding some hardware on our boat. Irsquo;m going with butyl tape, but wanted to see what folks were using for ldquo;filling and drillingrdquo; holes in the deck/core with epoxy, etc. Is Git Rot appropriate for this job? I am looking for something easy to work with for when I have a spare hour or two, i.e. less mixing/disposing cleanup the better. Send suggestions and / or links to YouTube videos or other ldquo;How Tordquo; sites. Thanks, Kevin 30-2 PDX Kevin Driscoll Portland, Oregon 503 // 875 // 3493___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re-Bedding / Filling Drilling w_Epoxy
Git-Rot is the exact opposite of a hole-filler. It is very low viscosity and is designed to soak into wood and migrate. Joe Della Barba Coquina From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List Sent: Friday, August 08, 2014 11:42 AM To: CC List Subject: Stus-List Re-Bedding / Filling Drilling w_Epoxy Happy weekend all, I am going to start re-bedding some hardware on our boat. I’m going with butyl tape, but wanted to see what folks were using for “filling and drilling” holes in the deck/core with epoxy, etc. Is Git Rot appropriate for this job? I am looking for something easy to work with for when I have a spare hour or two, i.e. less mixing/disposing cleanup the better. Send suggestions and / or links to YouTube videos or other “How To” sites. Thanks, Kevin 30-2 PDX Kevin Driscoll Portland, Oregon 503 // 875 // 3493 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re-Bedding / Filling Drilling w_Epoxy
Kevin, I'd use West Six/10 epoxy cartridges. Easy to work with and no waste except for what is left in the tip. Buy lots of tips if you are doing it over several weeks. I don't know if GitRot is strong enough. Joel 35/3 Annapolis On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 11:41 AM, Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Happy weekend all, I am going to start re-bedding some hardware on our boat. I’m going with butyl tape, but wanted to see what folks were using for “filling and drilling” holes in the deck/core with epoxy, etc. Is *Git Rot* appropriate for this job? I am looking for something easy to work with for when I have a spare hour or two, i.e. less mixing/disposing cleanup the better. Send suggestions and / or links to YouTube videos or other “How To” sites. Thanks, Kevin 30-2 PDX Kevin Driscoll Portland, Oregon 503 // 875 // 3493 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com -- Joel 301 541 8551 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Stus-List Re-Bedding / Filling Drilling w_Epoxy
Joel, +1 on the West Six/10 thickened epoxy, and the PBase info. I changed 4 cowl vents last weekend. One of them had been leaking for years apparently, so the core was wet. Very wet. I was able to scoop out the softened wood with a finger and screwdriver, dried it with everything from paper towels, newspaper, sun, air, and time. Then used the syringe to inject the epoxy into the gap between deck and liner. The result was better than I could have imagined. After letting it set, and re-drilling the screw holes that were now filled with epoxy, I installed the flashy new plastic Nicro cowls using silicone sealant. (Had it been Stainless hardware I would have used butyl tape as per PBase). I did take a few photos of the process. If anyone is interested, I will be happy to e-mail. Peter Delean 1980 CC 30 Mk1 Penetanguishene, ON ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re-Bedding / Filling Drilling w_Epoxy
Kevin, The epoxy cartridges are nice and easy to use, but to do the job right one should wet out the hole with un-thickened epoxy before filling with thickened epoxy. Also, don't just fill an existing bolt hole. Over dill the hole and ream back any coring. That said, I prefer to mix the epoxy myself. First un-thickened for wetting out, then adding some colloidal silica to thicken for the filling via a syringe. For epoxy, I use either West System 105/205 or East System 1032/833. They are near identical except East costs 1/3 less. - Paul E. 1981 CC Landfall 38 S/V Johanna Rose Carrabelle, FL On Aug 8, 2014, at 11:51 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote: Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2014 11:46:16 -0400 From: Joel Aronson joel.aron...@gmail.com To: Kevin Driscoll kevindrisc...@gmail.com, cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re-Bedding / Filling Drilling w_Epoxy Message-ID: cael16p_z-clsxxvuvgysgb6fr6f-htsqnwb82f99ln6gvr2...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Kevin, I'd use West Six/10 epoxy cartridges. Easy to work with and no waste except for what is left in the tip. Buy lots of tips if you are doing it over several weeks. I don't know if GitRot is strong enough. Joel 35/3 Annapolis On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 11:41 AM, Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Happy weekend all, I am going to start re-bedding some hardware on our boat. I?m going with butyl tape, but wanted to see what folks were using for ?filling and drilling? holes in the deck/core with epoxy, etc. Is *Git Rot* appropriate for this job? I am looking for something easy to work with for when I have a spare hour or two, i.e. less mixing/disposing cleanup the better. Send suggestions and / or links to YouTube videos or other ?How To? sites. Thanks, Kevin 30-2 PDX Kevin Driscoll Portland, Oregon 503 // 875 // 3493 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re-Bedding / Filling Drilling w_Epoxy
Kevin, I keep this in my maintenance file. I just copy and paste to emails. I just overbored and filled my cockpit coaming for some new winches using the method below. Here's the soup to nuts way to best protect your boat if the penetration is through cored deck. If it's not cored, just do the chamfering. 1. Remove and mark all hardware as to location and orientation (i.e, port, forward, etc.) 2. Overbore each hole 1-2 drill sizes larger. 3. Tape underside or stick some Play Doh in hole 4. Mix a batch of West Systems epoxy with SLOW hardener. 5. Inject epoxy in hole with syringe. Insert tip of syringe to bottom of hole and inject epoxy from bottom to completely fill hole. Wiggle the tip of the syringe around a bit to ensure good coating of hole. Then suck the epoxy out. Repeat for each hole. Alternate method: use a Q-Tip to coat the hole. 6. If the epoxy hasn't begun to really kick, mix in some thickener, West Systems 403 or 404, thouroughly mix and inject into each hole as in No. 5 above. Allow to cure. 7. Redrill holes using hardware as template. If rebedding genoa tracks, enlarge the holes in the backing plate because they probably won't line up. 8. Using a cone shaped grinding stone in a drill, chamfer the square edge off the hole at the deck. This will let the caulk form a gasket around the bolt at the deck. 9. Rebed with 4200, 4000UV or Lifeseal. Just before bolt or screw bottoms out, back it off and retighten a couple of times. This will coat the fastener with caulk at the deck. If a bolt, tighten to just short of fully tight. Allow to cure 24 hours. 10. After cure, have a helper hold the bolt from turning and fully tighten the nut. If you're doing handrails and they're screwed in from underneath, it might be better to overbore 1 drill size and simply coat with unthickened epoxy. It will be difficult to match the angle of the hole when you rebore. Also chamfer the hole in the handrail. Dennis C. Touche' 35-1 #83 mandeville, LA On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 10:41 AM, Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Happy weekend all, I am going to start re-bedding some hardware on our boat. I’m going with butyl tape, but wanted to see what folks were using for “filling and drilling” holes in the deck/core with epoxy, etc. Is *Git Rot* appropriate for this job? I am looking for something easy to work with for when I have a spare hour or two, i.e. less mixing/disposing cleanup the better. Send suggestions and / or links to YouTube videos or other “How To” sites. Thanks, Kevin 30-2 PDX Kevin Driscoll Portland, Oregon 503 // 875 // 3493 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re-Bedding / Filling Drilling w_Epoxy
I re bedded the majority of my deck hardware with butyl tape 5 years ago and I'm very pleased with the results. I drilled and filled as required and used the thinnest butyl I could find. So far no problems other than a slight tightening of the hardware over time. This is not a maintenance ending procedure, the parts will have to be pulled eventually and reseated once all the butyl squishes out but at least the core will be preserved thanks to the epoxy fill. Water leaks will be just that. Water leaks. Just a nuisance and not an issue. Brent D 27-5 s/v Wild Rover Aka Feral Dog Sent from my iPhone On Aug 8, 2014, at 10:41 AM, Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Happy weekend all, I am going to start re-bedding some hardware on our boat. I’m going with butyl tape, but wanted to see what folks were using for “filling and drilling” holes in the deck/core with epoxy, etc. Is Git Rot appropriate for this job? I am looking for something easy to work with for when I have a spare hour or two, i.e. less mixing/disposing cleanup the better. Send suggestions and / or links to YouTube videos or other “How To” sites. Thanks, Kevin 30-2 PDX Kevin Driscoll Portland, Oregon 503 // 875 // 3493 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re-Bedding / Filling Drilling w_Epoxy
The epoxy cartridges are nice and easy to use, but to do the job right one should wet out the hole with un-thickened epoxy before filling with thickened epoxy. Also, don't just fill an existing bolt hole. Over dill the hole and ream back any coring. That said, I prefer to mix the epoxy myself. First un-thickened for wetting out, then adding some colloidal silica to thicken for the filling via a syringe. For epoxy, I use either West System 105/205 or East System 1032/833. They are near identical except East costs 1/3 less. Add to that what Dennis C (Touché CC 35-1) so clearly detailed in his great response pretty much captures what we used / are using on Calypso’s deck repair and restoration project now underway. We have drilled/filled over 250 holes in Calypso’s deck. Some were from the boat’s early years as a SORC level pure race boat with deck hardware being moved about in search of competitive advantage. The next two owners also moved, added, subtracted deck hardware, stanchion, and dodger mounting fasteners. All the past holes (mid 70’s to mid 80’s) were filled, some with softer materials, some with good quality polyester or epoxy based filler. All the soft or polyester based filler filled holes failed (some lasted 20 years); the epoxy filled holes are still in good shape. Many of the hole fillers lasted a little longer owing to the deck paint protecting the filler. Few if any of the failed hole repairs included the chamfering of the top and bottom of the hole or any balsa core removal. We are using West System’s 105/205 (206 in summer), the Six10 cartridges, G/Flex, and 5 minute epoxy. For fillers, we have onboard: Cabosil, ground glass powder, chopped glass strands, and several types of micro-balloon based powders for fairing filler. We have been very aggressive with wet/compromised balsa core removal and drying. Often an area we thought had dried was found to be still wet just ½” further back from the leak. In the 70’s era CCs there are a few “channels” that allow water to travel some distance from a leak. We found “channels” where the original 12V “zip” cords were laminated into the deck allowing water to move/wick up to 3’. Another area that allowed water to flow was where the deck transitions from horizontal to vertical. The bend/radius was not filled correctly or the filler (orange colored polyester “bog”) cracked/failed allowing water to migrate. Tapping around with a light hammer has been one of our least invasive methods of defining where the core/deck laminate bond has failed. When we needed to define the outer edges of a very wet area we drilled 3/8” holes and tested the balsa for damp, color and smell. The Baltek’s web site has some very good information on how wet balsa core can be before it fails or loses significant strength. IIRC it is around 30% moisture before the risk of failure is significant. We are not making major repairs if we find slightly damp but good color/smelling balsa. We are removing soaked, rotten, or failed bond balsa core and replacing with new + lotsa epoxy. Using heated air (or Seattle summer weather) and fans it can take a week or so to dry an area through small holes. At the risk of overstating the obvious, wet balsa core will not dry thoroughly though 3/8” holes except around the immediate hole core interface. We have not started the re-bedding portion of the project and have yet to make the decisions of what bedding compound to use where. If I had to decide today the 3M 4200UV would be used under most deck hardware, butyl tape possibly under a spot or two, and a yet to be chosen sealant with a low adhesive component for those fittings we expect to remove often. Kevin, if you use Git Rot or similar very low viscosity resins to penetrate back into compromised balsa or plywood core, following up with a filled epoxy (after the Git Rot has cured) will provide a longer lasting repair. Martin Calypso 1971 CC 43 Seattle [Description: Description: Description: cid:D1BF9853-22F7-47FB-86F2-4115CE0BAF2F] From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List Sent: Friday, August 08, 2014 8:42 AM To: CC List Subject: Stus-List Re-Bedding / Filling Drilling w_Epoxy Happy weekend all, I am going to start re-bedding some hardware on our boat. I’m going with butyl tape, but wanted to see what folks were using for “filling and drilling” holes in the deck/core with epoxy, etc. Is Git Rot appropriate for this job? I am looking for something easy to work with for when I have a spare hour or two, i.e. less mixing/disposing cleanup the better. Send suggestions and / or links to YouTube videos or other “How To” sites. Thanks, Kevin 30-2 PDX Kevin Driscoll Portland, Oregon 503 // 875 // 3493 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list
Re: Stus-List Re-Bedding / Filling Drilling w_Epoxy
This past winter, I pulled my sanitation pump out fitting and found some significant rot. Dug it out and used Smiths clear penetrating epoxy to seal and fix the open wood grain. They recommend rewetting frequently over the course of a few days to a week. After it was curred I used west system to wet out the hole then west + colliodal silica to fill the hole. Everything else pretty much according to PBase. I chose the Smith's because I could mix small batches as needed and have NO waste. I bought their syringe too and really couldn't be happier. Better price too. I'm suprised no one else mentioned this but one thing I probably should have done is made sure to remove any amine blush before applying sealant...time will tell. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 CC 37+ Solomons, MD On Aug 8, 2014 11:42 AM, Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Happy weekend all, I am going to start re-bedding some hardware on our boat. I'm going with butyl tape, but wanted to see what folks were using for filling and drilling holes in the deck/core with epoxy, etc. Is *Git Rot* appropriate for this job? I am looking for something easy to work with for when I have a spare hour or two, i.e. less mixing/disposing cleanup the better. Send suggestions and / or links to YouTube videos or other How To sites. Thanks, Kevin 30-2 PDX Kevin Driscoll Portland, Oregon 503 // 875 // 3493 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re-Bedding / Filling Drilling w_Epoxy
Thanks everybody. Great information as usual. KD Kevin Driscoll Portland, Oregon 503 // 875 // 3493 On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 11:55 AM, Josh Muckley muckl...@gmail.com wrote: This past winter, I pulled my sanitation pump out fitting and found some significant rot. Dug it out and used Smiths clear penetrating epoxy to seal and fix the open wood grain. They recommend rewetting frequently over the course of a few days to a week. After it was curred I used west system to wet out the hole then west + colliodal silica to fill the hole. Everything else pretty much according to PBase. I chose the Smith's because I could mix small batches as needed and have NO waste. I bought their syringe too and really couldn't be happier. Better price too. I'm suprised no one else mentioned this but one thing I probably should have done is made sure to remove any amine blush before applying sealant...time will tell. Josh Muckley S/V Sea Hawk 1989 CC 37+ Solomons, MD On Aug 8, 2014 11:42 AM, Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Happy weekend all, I am going to start re-bedding some hardware on our boat. I’m going with butyl tape, but wanted to see what folks were using for “filling and drilling” holes in the deck/core with epoxy, etc. Is *Git Rot* appropriate for this job? I am looking for something easy to work with for when I have a spare hour or two, i.e. less mixing/disposing cleanup the better. Send suggestions and / or links to YouTube videos or other “How To” sites. Thanks, Kevin 30-2 PDX Kevin Driscoll Portland, Oregon 503 // 875 // 3493 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
Re: Stus-List Re-Bedding / Filling Drilling w_Epoxy
Just a note - My experience is to tape the hole below deck and pour in a small amount of thickened epoxy which does not drip past the tape to form a new epoxy seal or bottom layer when cured and then wet the cored out area and then fill with thickened epoxy. John Arpeggio CC 32 Norwalk, CT From: CnC-List [mailto:cnc-list-boun...@cnc-list.com] On Behalf Of PME via CnC-List Sent: Friday, August 08, 2014 12:52 PM To: cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re-Bedding / Filling Drilling w_Epoxy Kevin, The epoxy cartridges are nice and easy to use, but to do the job right one should wet out the hole with un-thickened epoxy before filling with thickened epoxy. Also, don't just fill an existing bolt hole. Over dill the hole and ream back any coring. That said, I prefer to mix the epoxy myself. First un-thickened for wetting out, then adding some colloidal silica to thicken for the filling via a syringe. For epoxy, I use either West System 105/205 or East System 1032/833. They are near identical except East costs 1/3 less. - Paul E. 1981 CC Landfall 38 S/V Johanna Rose Carrabelle, FL On Aug 8, 2014, at 11:51 AM, cnc-list-requ...@cnc-list.com wrote: Date: Fri, 8 Aug 2014 11:46:16 -0400 From: Joel Aronson mailto:joel.aron...@gmail.com joel.aron...@gmail.com To: Kevin Driscoll mailto:kevindrisc...@gmail.com kevindrisc...@gmail.com, mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com Subject: Re: Stus-List Re-Bedding / Filling Drilling w_Epoxy Message-ID: mailto:cael16p_z-clsxxvuvgysgb6fr6f-htsqnwb82f99ln6gvr2...@mail.gmail.com cael16p_z-clsxxvuvgysgb6fr6f-htsqnwb82f99ln6gvr2...@mail.gmail.com Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Kevin, I'd use West Six/10 epoxy cartridges. Easy to work with and no waste except for what is left in the tip. Buy lots of tips if you are doing it over several weeks. I don't know if GitRot is strong enough. Joel 35/3 Annapolis On Fri, Aug 8, 2014 at 11:41 AM, Kevin Driscoll via CnC-List mailto:cnc-list@cnc-list.com cnc-list@cnc-list.com wrote: Happy weekend all, I am going to start re-bedding some hardware on our boat. I?m going with butyl tape, but wanted to see what folks were using for ?filling and drilling? holes in the deck/core with epoxy, etc. Is *Git Rot* appropriate for this job? I am looking for something easy to work with for when I have a spare hour or two, i.e. less mixing/disposing cleanup the better. Send suggestions and / or links to YouTube videos or other ?How To? sites. Thanks, Kevin 30-2 PDX Kevin Driscoll Portland, Oregon 503 // 875 // 3493 ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com ___ This List is provided by the CC Photo Album Email address: CnC-List@cnc-list.com To change your list preferences, including unsubscribing -- go bottom of page at: http://cnc-list.com/mailman/listinfo/cnc-list_cnc-list.com
