Re: [Community_garden] Mulch vs gravel paths
Mulch will disintegrate within a year if the conditions are right (rain and foot traffic). It smells great for a little while but it will quickly oxidize, once again depending on the elements. Gravel will scatter quickly depending on the angle of the path, a flat path is best. Also both will work better if there are short borders along the path to keep the materials from getting kicked around. Over the years our garden tried both but we gave up and have either used bricks or slate stones on pathways. William Hohauser President Sixth Street and Avenue B Garden www.6bgarden.org On Jun 30, 2009, at 6:17 PM, Magali Regis wrote: Hello all, I wanted to ask you a question - maybe some of you have an opinion: 1. Mulch vs. gravel path: We have a lovely community garden on East 6th Street in the East Village in NYC with a gravel path and some of the gardeners would like to see it replaced with mulch (wood chips). I happen to like the gravel path a lot and would be sorry to see it go. There is something very 'zen' about it. They say the mulch will be softer, easier to maintain, smell really good etc...It is a lot of work to make that change. I was wondering if you anyone out there has experience with mulch and has an opinion, one way or another, about it? Or if there is any place I could go for advice. I want to make sure we do the right thing. Thanks, Magali ___ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden@list.communitygarden.org To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org ___ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden@list.communitygarden.org To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org
Re: [Community_garden] What to do about old gasoline?
Many auto repair shops have a place to store old gasoline and oil until the disposal tanker shows up. Where it goes after that I can't say. William Hohauser President Sixth Street and Avenue B Garden [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Nov 14, 2008, at 6:52 AM, Alliums wrote: Hi, Folks! Here's another "what's best for the environment" question. Someone donated an old rototiller to the community garden which my husband thinks with some work, he can get working again. However, it's got gasoline in the tank that is probably at least 5 years old and contaminated by draining from places it shouldn't. (My husband is planning to change the hoses as he thinks they have been leaking). What do we do with the old gasoline? We estimate there is about a quart in the rototiller and we don't want to use it in another vehicle because we believe it's got "stuff" in it. Any suggestions? Thanks! Dorene Pasekoff, Coordinator St. John's United Church of Christ Organic Community Garden and Labyrinth A mission of St. John's United Church of Christ, 315 Gay Street, Phoenixville, PA 19460 -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <http://list.communitygarden.org/pipermail/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org/attachments/20081114/2e7be874/attachment.html > ___ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden@list.communitygarden.org To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org ___ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden@list.communitygarden.org To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org
Re: [Community_garden] Liability Issues on Public Land
First of all you must find out the insurance status of the land you are using. Especially regarding injuries as this is the most likely area of liability. The insurance policy may not cover certain structures you might be considering for the garden and that would have to be addressed by the college. Bad vegetables are a very distant concern. All the liability issues I've ever heard about in community gardens have been regarding injuries. In fact, I've never heard of anyone sickened by properly prepared vegetables from a community garden, has anyone else? William Hohauser President Sixth Street and Avenue B Garden, NYC [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Sep 11, 2008, at 10:16 AM, Lizie, Arthur wrote: > Hi, > > I am planning on starting two community gardens on campus (we're a > public college). I am working on this through our Sustainability > center and, honestly, have no experience in this arena. So, I have > two concerns/questions that I'd like to throw out to the group for > public or off-list discussion. > > First, if you've started a garden on public land, how have you dealt > with liability issues? A person in the school paid to say no has > given me a laundry list of concerns, including "what happens if > someone gets sick from the vegetables - who's liable?" While we can > control for that to a degree through gardening techniques, the > concern, or at least the perception of concern is there. Any ideas? > > > Arthur Lizie, Ph.D. > Associate Professor > Communication Studies > Maxwell 215J > Bridgewater State College > Bridgewater, MA 02325 > 508-531-2170 :: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://list.communitygarden.org/pipermail/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org/attachments/20080911/cc98e9c2/attachment.html > ___ > The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one > of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the > ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org > > To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden@list.communitygarden.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: > http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org ___ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden@list.communitygarden.org To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org
Re: [Community_garden] Locking garden gates?
On Jul 23, 2008, at 5:54 PM, Don Boekelheide wrote: > 1. Making sure that the whole community knows that they are welcome > (if they don't rip things off), and discouraging the perception that > the community garden is one group "taking advantage" of public > resources for personal gain? We have been locked nearly since the founding of the garden 25 years ago. In a once poor urban area, we would experience some bad vandalism and theft. Now that the area is gentrified beyond belief ($5000 per month one bedroom apts), we still have to keep the place locked when empty or the new rich party people come in and expect a servant to come clean up after them. We post signs that explain the nature of the garden and when the garden gates are open. Most people understand once they see that the garden is built by volunteers from the community. > > > 2. Addressing problems of rotting produce left by gardeners who > don't harvest (I liked Doreen's answer to this). Gardeners who don't tend their plots are put on probation and then expelled if the situation isn't addressed. > > > 3. Dealing with "inside" unauthorized harvesting? We haven't figured a way to deal with this in all our years. How can it be proved without real evidence? Accusing people without evidence is a very good way to destroy a community garden. > > > 4. Addressing problems of security- are gardens safer with locked > gates? Yes. We don't have to worry about coming into the garden and finding a drug deal under way. > > > 5. Dealing with hungry and impoverished people who see the food and > are tempted by it? We try to direct them to the local food pantry which is getting less and less food these days. Seems the new rich in New York City have little money to help the unfortunate these days. William Hohauser Sixth Street and Avenue B Garden, NYC ___ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden@list.communitygarden.org To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org
Re: [Community_garden] Locking garden gates?
No, a vote is taken after the issues are discussed in an open forum. Our garden operates like this and the discussions/debates get quite lively. Most of the time the decisions made have been very good for the garden as a whole. In community gardens, garden members must feel free to propose ideas and changes to the garden at meetings. Meetings should happen on a regular basis, monthly or bi-monthly depending on the garden's size. And a member's vote should count! As elected president of a garden, I get a lot of ideas and suggestions from members on how the garden should operate. As president I can't impose these suggestions no matter how much I agree with them. My method is to have the person personally bring it up at a meeting or present it to me in a written statement so as president I can present the idea as they have it. If the idea is good, it usually moves forward in some way. If the idea is daft, usually the person suggesting it will not even bring it to a meeting. If they do the idea is almost always voted down. A group is a group. Group decisions can be horrible at times. This country is occasionally a very good example of that. Individuals get tromped on by groups all the time. But sometimes an individual isn't acting in anyone's interest just their own self-interest. Sometimes the "other side" is right but the "group" has collectively made a mistake. The mistake can be fixed but the other side must approach the problem with a collective spirit of trust and hope not a combative spirit of war. War isn't necessary among a family. What a community garden can do is show that a full democracy can work in the long run. William Hohauser Sixth Street and Avenue B Garden On Jul 24, 2008, at 4:51 PM, Diana Liu wrote: > So, who is in "the group" and "the other side"? So is true > "democracy" in effect when "the group" as whole agree single- > mindedly without taking into any consideration of "the other side"? > > William Hohauser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Democracy is democracy. If the decision has been made by the group as > a whole then individuals or factions have little to say except to try > and state their case at a later date or leave the garden and find > another place that fits their needs better. It's that simple. There > are gardens that have a board of directors or other methods of self- > government but only a straight single vote democracy can keep the > garden stable for the long term. > > If the garden has voted for locks then the other side must abide by > it. If the locks turn out to be a bad decision then the other side can > show why locks are no good and the garden can vote again. Who knows, > the vote might go their way. > > > > > "Any thoughts on how to handle it when one "faction" gets its way > > and really > > doesn't feel like listening to the "other side", such as an > > individual or > > "counterfaction", who persistently keeps raising questions, > > alternatives and > > objections even after a decision has been made?" > > > > ___ > The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one > of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the > ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org > > To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden@list.communitygarden.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: > http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org > > > > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > Kindness in words creates confidence. > Kindness in thinking creates profoundness. > Kindness in giving creates love. >- Lao Tzu > ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: http://list.communitygarden.org/pipermail/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org/attachments/20080724/0eb59223/attachment.html ___ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden@list.communitygarden.org To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org
Re: [Community_garden] Locking garden gates?
Democracy is democracy. If the decision has been made by the group as a whole then individuals or factions have little to say except to try and state their case at a later date or leave the garden and find another place that fits their needs better. It's that simple. There are gardens that have a board of directors or other methods of self- government but only a straight single vote democracy can keep the garden stable for the long term. If the garden has voted for locks then the other side must abide by it. If the locks turn out to be a bad decision then the other side can show why locks are no good and the garden can vote again. Who knows, the vote might go their way. > "Any thoughts on how to handle it when one "faction" gets its way > and really > doesn't feel like listening to the "other side", such as an > individual or > "counterfaction", who persistently keeps raising questions, > alternatives and > objections even after a decision has been made?" > ___ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden@list.communitygarden.org To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org
Re: [Community_garden] theft prevention
Theft from within is really hard to address without direct evidence since it's usually done on the sly. Theft from without is easier if it's witnessed but usually it's discovered after the fact as well. We used to have a peach tree that would be picked clean in one night every year. The best you can do is to not have anything theft worthy left out and make sure members understand that as a community garden they have to expect community type incidents to happen. It's not private property. This includes vegetables, flowers and exotic plants. Garden tools should be locked up or chained if it's easy to exit with them (wheelbarrows). Sheds with special equipment should have a limited number of people with the key or combo. William Hohauser Sixth Street and Avenue B Garden On Jul 23, 2008, at 9:25 AM, Ian Kinross wrote: > Hello community gardeners, > My name is Ian Kinross and I am the volunteer coordinator of > Thorncliffe > Community Garden in Toronto. > We have plots for about 100 residents (and their families) of a > multicultural, high-rise neighborhood in Toronto's east end. > I would appreciate any advice you have on the issues of: > -- safety > -- theft prevention. > In particular, any best practices, and anything to avoid. I would > appreciate hearing about solutions that have worked well to minimize > theft. > We've had a number of thefts this year, and would like to step up > efforts to prevent them. Thefts may come from within and outside the > garden. > Any information would be helpful. > Regards, > Ian Kinross > Toronto > > > > This e-mail message is intended only for the person or entity to > which it is addressed and is confidential, subject to copyright and > may be legally privileged. Any unauthorized review, use or > disclosure is prohibited. If you received this in error,please > contact the sender and delete all copies of the e-mail together with > any attachments. > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://list.communitygarden.org/pipermail/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org/attachments/20080723/463eb770/attachment.html > ___ > The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one > of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the > ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org > > To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden@list.communitygarden.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: > http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org ___ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden@list.communitygarden.org To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org
Re: [Community_garden] Shade Structures in Community Gardens
Pros: Provides shade and a nice place to sit. Makes the garden more welcoming for visitors. Shade structures can provide a great place for flowering vines and small fruit bushes to grow. Cons: These need maintenance after a few years depending on the construction. Our garden has a couple of arbors (one has a grape vine that fruits every year!) that have settled over the years and needed shoring up. Shade structure cast shadows on other parts of the garden that might not thrive in shade. Poor design can create a shaded area that is dark and uninviting. William Hohauser Sixth Street and Avenue B Garden, NYC On Jul 21, 2008, at 11:58 PM, KBR wrote: > Does anyone have any experience with community gardens installing > shade structures in their gardens? I'd like to hear the pros and cons. > > Kate, Wisconsin"If at first the idea is not absurd, there is no hope > for it." > >~ > Albert Einstein~ > -- next part -- > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > URL: > http://list.communitygarden.org/pipermail/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org/attachments/20080721/0a99/attachment.html > ___ > The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one > of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the > ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org > > To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden@list.communitygarden.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: > http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org ___ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden@list.communitygarden.org To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org
Re: [Community_garden] property values
Since most evidence shows that property values go up in the presence of community gardens I would put for the notion that the "values" the neighbors are really worried about is the idea of community owned and maintained property. Community gardens sometimes disturb the "value" certain people place in the private property system of our society. Communal property is a tough notion. Our previous mayor, Giuliani, had a real problem with gardens mainly because he couldn't see beyond private ownership, a community run garden of volunteers really disturbed him. William Hohauser President Sixth Street and Avenue B Garden, New York City [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Jun 3, 2008, at 3:25 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I just found out that a nearby town council (Mtn. View, Calif.) voted > not to create a new community garden, despite the 140-person waiting > list, because neighbors campaigned vigorously against it. They > claimed it would reduce their property values. > > Has anyone found studies showing the effect of community gardens on > surrounding property values? > > ___ > The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one > of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the > ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org > > To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden@list.communitygarden.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: > http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org ___ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: community_garden@list.communitygarden.org To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: http://list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/community_garden_list.communitygarden.org
Re: [Community_garden] The City Hates Community Gardening
While this seems be a cynical attempt on the part of city officials to destroy the gardens, from my experience with other community organizations, it's possible it might be a misguided attempt by ignorant but ultimately fair minded politicians. As someone who was very involved with community television advocacy, many people were dismayed when, over a decade ago, the quasi- governmental agency in charge of community television in my county suddenly decided that nobody should have a weekly program for longer then six months. Just as it takes time to grow a plant, it takes time to grow an audience, especially when you are in community television. Six months just doesn't do it just as one year doesn't do it for a garden plot. My clematis took four years before it actually was able to grow over a foot. When a collective of community show producers approached the agency we found out why this draconian measure was being considered. They were very concerned about the real problem of people squatting on precious TV time by repeating very old shows and squeezing out new producers who needed time. They felt that many potential new producers were being permanently discouraged by the very long waiting times. Unfortunately there is no practical way to review every show. The producers collectively made an organized statement that included suggestions addressing agency concerns while protecting producers who were active and creating new shows. We also organized some very noticeable protests. While the result wasn't the best the working producers received some protection and the agency was able to change their policies without hurting a lot of people. My suggestion is to create a well written and reasoned response to these proposed rules. Organize protests in front of City Hall and be very sure to alert all the media; TV, radio and press. Appoint someone as the spokesperson for your plight. They should be comfortable in the spotlight and able to present themselves as much more rational then the people who proposed these ridiculous rules. Make sure that children from the gardens are visible at all protests. The media loves stories about children being deprived by heartless politicians. If this doesn't work and the rules are passed, reorganize the gardens so there aren't any plots anymore, just large communal gardening areas where members become part of a team. That will show City Hall down for a while. William Hohauser Sixth Street and Avenue B Garden, New York, NY [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Jan 11, 2008, at 12:27 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > A few weeks ago I queried ACGA membership via listserve about the > wisdom of > our gardens administrator (City of San Ramon, CA) deciding to > drastically > change the current procedure of assigning our garden plots on an > indefinite > duration basis. The City now proposes to rotate assigned garden > plots among > community gardeners each year on a “lottery” basis; ostensibly to > satisfy a long > "waiting list." [although in fact more than 10 percent of the > garden plots > remained vacant for the past year and were not assigned to anyone > on any > waiting list.] > The ACGA listserve response was unanimous and specific: Forcing > gardeners to > participate in a lottery each year to see if they will get a garden > plot for > the following season is against all principles of community > gardening and the > more appropriate municipal answer to a waiting list was to build more > gardens. > After discussing this issue with the City for the past several weeks, > however, some chilling insights have been gained among the > gardeners. What we local > community gardeners initially thought was simply an innocent, perhaps > incompetent, ignorance of organic gardening processes on the part of > the City has > now evolved into a suspicion that the City administrators know > exactly what > they are doing. > By demanding implementation of such ludicrous and inappropriate > gardening > procedures the City knows full well that it will ultimately chase > off all > serious organic gardeners, allowing the City to have an unfettered > hand in > utilizing the land now dedicated to community gardening for other, > more “ > municipally-desirable, tax-generating” pursuits such as office > buildings, commercial > enterprises, etc. [In fact the majority of gardeners, many of whom > have been > here for decades, have indeed indicated they will leave, rather > than try to > garden under such a "merry-go-round", rotational type of > environment.] > Has anyone in the membership dealt with such political situations > before? If > so, what are the most effective tactics we can
[Community_garden] How does your Community Garden Function?
Well you are off to a good start. Now here's a few suggestions from our little corner in the world > > I've just been appointed to head a new organic community garden. A great job and an infuriating one as well. As a past garden president here's a couple of presidential tips: Never use e-mail for any purpose but to alert garden members of meetings or issues of importance. Do not engage in a discussion by e- mail as rules of normal conversation seem to fall away rather quickly for some people and things get written that are hard to heal. Always refer people's concerns to a garden meeting where it can be discussed in the open. Believe me this really works in keeping the garden peaceful. Never make important decisions on your own, always bring it to a meeting for discussion and a vote. Of course in an emergency you'll have to make a snap decision on the behalf of the membership. > This is > the end of the first year, which has been energized with the > newness of the > garden and beautiful results we have achieved, but we now need a > way to make > our garden sustain itself through the work of the bed holders. We > have > about 100 primary gardeners. > This is a great number to start with! Now the work is to keep a large number of them active in the upkeep of the garden. Most gardens end up with a small percentage of people doing most of the work. Try to avoid this. > > > We would like to see more participation in the running of the > garden from > more of the gardeners and were thinking about requiring attendance at > several meetings and some volunteer hours as a part of the > agreement to have > a raised bed. > Our garden requires a minimum of four meetings a year and a minimum of four hours of community work a month during open months. The four hours can be any sort of garden work; from committee attendance to sweeping to xeroxing to monitoring the garden during open hours. People who can't fulfill this requirement are asked to reduce their membership (lose their plot) or leave. > > Do you require attendance at meetings? > > If so, what is your experiences with that, do people like it, > resent it, or > what? > > People who truly want to participate understand the rules and abide by them. The requirements are not outlandish, especially for gardens that receive little or no public money. There's always a chance for strife in an open community setting, as long as your garden sets out the rules clearly at the start no one can reasonably resent being held to the rules they accepted. Unreasonable people are always going to be there and the stress they cause can be lessened by having the garden meetings as a forum. > > For Organic Gardens - how do you manage compost? > > Test your soil first. Make sure it's clean. We compost but not organically since our soil is on landfill that's got 150 years of New York City under it. > > If you have any other advice or words of wisdom, etc, please let me > know. I > would rather benefit from someone else's experience than make all > the same > mistakes all over again. > > Make your garden by-laws and rules as soon as possible. Give everyone in the garden a chance to contribute to the process. One these documents are ratified by the membership, garden government will that much simpler. And number one, above all else: Keep the garden democratic! William Hohauser Sixth Street and Avenue B Garden New York, NY
[Community_garden] Plot fees in your city?
Our garden is $12 a year for a plot (includes a garden key) and $5 for supporting membership but no key. We have roughly 80 active plots. Elderly members get a reduced rate. Local community organizations can get a free plot but it must be utilized. We can keep the rates low due to our active fundraising with grants, donations, t-shirt sales or events. All plot holding members must contribute 4 hours of community garden work per month and attend a minimum number of monthly garden meetings. William Hohauser 6th Street & Avenue B Garden New York City On Nov 2, 2006, at 12:36 PM, Janet Parker wrote: > Dear ACGA friends, > > What are plot fees for gardens in your city? > > Here in Madison, Wisconsin we use a sliding scale so that people of > all > income levels can be part of the gardens and pay each according to > her/his ability. We are looking at raising rates and wondering what > plot fees are in other places. > > I imagine that in some cities each individual garden sets its fees, > and > in places with citywide programs there is a standard fee. What's your > garden's situation? We'd also be interested to hear the size of your > plots. > > Thank you! > > Peace, > > Janet Parker > Community Gardens - CAC Food & Gardens > 1717 N. Stoughton Road > Madison, WI 53704 > janetp at cacscw.org > 608-246-4730 ext. 218 > www.cacscw.org/gardens > > > ___ > The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one > of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the > ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http:// > www.communitygarden.org > > To post an e-mail to the list: > community_garden at list.communitygarden.org > > To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: http:// > list.communitygarden.org/mailman/listinfo/ > community_garden_list.communitygarden.org
[cg] The List Serve is apparently broken - Please do not put your unsubscribe requests on the list
The list serve is clearly broken in regards to "unsubscribe" requests. I am only an observer and am not in any way in charge of the list so please don't e-mail me. Go to the web site at http://www.communitygarden.org and contact the proper parties that way. By posting an unsubscribe request here you are making the list serve even more intolerable for those of us who use it. In the meantime, if the community garden list is getting too active for you and the list server has been fixed yet, please mark all e- mails from the list serve as junk mail in your e-mail program! That will take care of some of the clutter. William Hohauser 6th Street & Avenue B Garden __ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden
Re: [cg] rats, solutions to
Our garden is close to several restaurants, a deli and lots of apartment buildings so we are never going to get rid of rats with a compost bin around. Unfortunately, compost is nice and warm during the winter and the rats are quite happy borrowing in it. Our problem will never go away but we found it got worse when a local vegetarian restaurant started to put oily scraps and things made with dairy products into our compost. The rats thrived and grew large. We had to tell them to stop which the employees couldn't understand no matter how we tried to explain. "It's vegetarian", they would say. The restaurant is now gone but others food establishments have moved in. We now have a garden members only policy for the compost. Even then the fruit and vegetables that end up in there are food for the rats but they don't grow very large. Aside from building or purchasing a rat proof compost bin you'll have a time keeping the compost vermin free. William Hohauser Sixth Street & Avenue B Garden New York City On Sep 11, 2006, at 4:52 PM, Emily wrote: The community garden I belong to has recently developed a problem with rats around our compost bins for the first time in many many years. We're trying to find out what other community gardens have done to successfully get rid of rodents - hopefully without using poison or traps (we have other wildlife, squirrels, a resident cat, small children, birds, etc.) that we'd like NOT to negatively impact Emily __ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http:// www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: https:// secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden __ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden
Re: [cg] Question: Environmental Benefits of Community Gardens
Air quality I can't say but I do know that the community gardens in Manhattan attract all sorts of wildlife that normally stay away from urban areas. Our garden was surveyed for insect species and it was discovered that several varieties of wild bees had made their home in the garden. Our neighborhood has thriving communities of mockingbirds, nuthatches, catbirds, woodpeckers, wrens and other small birds that you would have never seen in a dense space like Manhattan only a decade ago. Some gardens with ponds have occasional heron visits which doesn't please them too much as the birds are looking for koi to eat. William Hohauser 6th Street & Avenue B Garden On Aug 29, 2006, at 9:26 AM, Kanthor, David wrote: What are the environmental benefits of community gardens? I am soliciting citations and links to academic studies with information that I can include for a project I am working on called GreenPlan Philadelphia, which is an open space plan. I would be interested in any studies that discuss stormwater runoff coefficients, air quality benefits - especially CO2 sequestration, albedo levels, and possibly any general information about increased habitat for birds, insects, and other biodiversity. I know that is a lot of information to ask, but if you have answers or suggestions for any of these questions, that would be extremely helpful. Thank you, David Kanthor __ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http:// www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: https:// secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden __ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden
[cg] Fwd: Sharing other garden news - thx for keep 'em coming
Begin forwarded message: > From: William Hohauser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: August 22, 2006 12:14:35 AM EDT > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [cg] Fwd: Sharing other garden news - thx for keep 'em > coming > > Yup, that's a lot of articles suddenly. A good sign for the > community garden movement. Each one of these articles might have a > nugget of priceless info that a garden might need for it's > survival, so why the problem? It's easy to skip them or read them > or delete them. > > Don't blame the mailman for the mail. Especially if it's a > volunteer mailman whose extra effort benefits the entire community > garden movement. > > William Hohauser > Sixth Street and Avenue B Garden > New York city > > > > On Aug 21, 2006, at 11:20 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Sent: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 10:16 AM >> Subject: RE: Sharing other garden news - thx for keep 'em coming >> >> >> Don: Adam, as always, is on target. I join his ranks in supporting >> your sharing news from other gardens. I particularly appreciate your >> sending the whole article rather than the URL. I can scan every >> article, flag those that I need, file the others to search later. If >> you send URLs, it slows down my perusing and encumbers later >> searches. >> Thank you, and keep on sending the whole news (~: B >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of >> [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 8:32 AM >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Subject: Re: [cg] List as 'news service' as well as 'forum' >> >> Lookit - Don, >> >> You've made the assumption that people who subscribe to a community >> garden list-serv are interested in reading about community gardens. >> >> Some are. Many would like to be. Many are lurkers and feel guilty >> when >> they don't read the content. >> >> There are some who have reading disabilities, got into gardening >> because >> they are "differently abled," and find having all this material to >> read >> on community gardening onorous. They would prefer pictures - so >> would >> I, but we don't have the money or resources to do this. >> >> >> Others, the complainers, the passive-aggressives, feel the need to >> whine >> about "all of that content," instead of clicking the "delete key," >> when >> the flow becomes too heavy, or they are tired, or want to watch >> "American Idol," re-runs, or the "news flash," on the latest >> kiddie porn >> sex scandal. >> >> FOR THOSE WHO DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS: THIS ACGA LIST SERV IS A FREE >> SERVICE RUN BY VOLUNTEERS. >> >> IF YOU WERE TO COUNT NOSES, MOST OF THE SUBSCRIBERS ARE NOT ACGA >> MEMBERS. >> >> I SERIOUSLY DOUBT IF THE WHINERS, IN SPECIFIC, HAVE EVER BEEN DUES >> PAYING ACGA MEMBERS OR PLAN TO BE. THEY JUST LIKE TO COMPLAIN. >> >> The people who care about community gardens are really grateful >> for the >> content, to read about what is going on in places like our own, in >> places where we have never been. We are looking for new ways to >> build >> membership, deal with compost, deal with vandalism, create community, >> save our gardens, the best way to espalier pears in a small space >> - the >> whole works. >> >> >> Thank you for what you do, Don, >> >> Best regards, >> Adam Honigman >> NYC Community Gardener >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -Original Message- >> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Sent: Mon, 21 Aug 2006 12:06 AM >> Subject: [cg] List as 'news service' as well as 'forum' >> >> >> Hi, all, >> >> I'm sympathetic to recent comments that I'm posting >> too many articles about community gardening. This list >> didn't feature that many before (though some were >> posted from time to time, mostly from New York - no >> conspiracy, just some wide-awake people in NYC, and a >> lot of community gardens, over 1000 of them). >> >> I'm doubly sympathetic since I'm personally most >> interested in the technical growing and design >> questions of community gar
Re: [cg] community gardens- dealing with liability issues
This is a big, big issue. First of all we live in a country where lawsuits are dispensed like disposable cups. You could find an insurance policy by yourselves or thru an organization that helps non-profits with their insurance or you could see if the museum's insurance already covers the garden. They must have a policy that includes coverage of their grounds. Unfortunately the museum may have changed it's mind about the arrangement with the advocacy group and is using the insurance as a way to say get lost. There are precedents with lawsuits against community gardens. They have happened, a few legitimate lawsuits and others not. A few resulted in monetary awards to the plantiff. In New York City most of the gardens are now covered by the city's Parks Dept. or have an arrangement thru a non-profit organization. Without coverage, individual garden members could become the focus of a lawsuit. That would be a big problem. You may have to reassess whether this museum is a good partner after all. If they refuse to cover the garden (of course it may not be them, insurance companies are always looking to reduce their responsibilities) and the advocacy group can't raise the money, this project may have to be moved elsewhere. William Hohauser 6th Street and Avenue B Garden New York City On Jul 12, 2006, at 7:16 PM, Molly MacDonald wrote: Hi everyone I am part of an organization that links groups that want to start a community garden with community partners who have land to offer. We're a brand new group and are still learning the ins and outs of community gardening. We've recently linked an anti-poverty advocacy group with a local museum that has land in their courtyard. The land has been tilled and plots prepared, but the museum has now said that planting cannot take place unless the gardeners come up with insurance. Since all of them are on welfare or disability this is hardly a fair request. I was just wondering what other people's experience has been with this sort of issue. Is there a precedent for lawsuits in community gardens? Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to quell the museum's fears, navigate this situation etc? Thank you. Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com __ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http:// www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: https:// secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden __ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden
[cg] Re: [NYC-GardensCoalition] 6TH + B PLANT AND BAKE SALE!!!!!!!!
That wasn't us. Must have been a slip of the return button. Here is the info for our garden 6TH AND B PLANT AND BAKE SALE BENIFIT THIS SATURDAY AND SUNDAY MAY 6TH AND 7TH 11AM TO 5PM WE WILL BE HAVING OUR ANNUAL BENIFIT PLEASE STOP BUY AND SUPPORT OUR GARDEN THIS YEAR WE HAVE SOME VERY SPECIAL PLANTS WE HAVE INCLUDED ALOT OF HOUSE PLANTS AND UNUSUAL ONES AND AS ALWAYS DELPHINES' CHOCOLATE CAKE!! (THINK SHE MIGHT MAKE 2 THIS YEAR) ALSO SALLY'S SPECIAL DOG BISQUITS and KRISS PROMISED TO MAKE QUICHE HOPE EVERYONE CAN STOP BUY : ) Plus we have some very nifty T-Shirts and hats emblazoned with our garden logo for sale. All sales go directly to garden operations and help fund our summer free to the public events. - William Hohauser 6th Street and Avenue B Garden New York, NY On May 4, 2006, at 1:46 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: <001501c66fa2$b104ba60$017f> __ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden
[cg] European Honeybees and native species - the scientific perspective
As I promised, here are some bit of info regarding the honeybee vs native bee situation. Our garden's resident scientist had this to say, "According to Jerry Rosen, the bee curator at AMNH (American Museum of Natural History), in the bee world honey bees are known as 'pollen hogs.' In general, social animals have an edge that enables them to build up large population densities relative to non-social animals, so they require a bigger slice of the pie... and their 'strength in numbers' enables them to successfully defend their outsized slice. I personally don't much care for the social bullies, and feel that the sampling we get in community gardens is sufficient (honeybees ARE good milkweed pollinators...). One advantage to keeping honeybees in a community garden is that bigger bullies can then remove the honey... The second advantage is educational potential, which is substantial. Although you also end up with increased risk of stings." And here is a very academic list of papers about the subject. A summary of the summaries reveals this; 1) Studies have not yet conclusively proved that honeybees out-compete native bees but there is evidence that competition occurs and in one study honeybees do negatively effect native bees. 2) This topic is of great interest to Australians. William Hohauser Sixth Street and Avenue B Garden New York City Notes: Honey bee competition FN ISI Export Format VR 1.0 PT J AU Paini, DR TI Impact of the introduced honey bee (Apis mellifera) (Hymenoptera : Apidae) on native bees: A review SO AUSTRAL ECOLOGY AB Interspecific competition for a limited resource can result in the reduction of survival, growth and/or reproduction in one of the species involved. The introduced honey bee (Apis mellifera Linnaeus) is an example of a species that can compete with native bees for floral resources. Often, research into honey bee/native bee competition has focused on floral resource overlap, visitation rates or resource harvesting, and any negative interaction has been interpreted as a negative impact. Although this research can be valuable in indicating the potential for competition between honey bees and native bees, to determine if the long-term survival of a native bee species is threatened, fecundity, survival or population density needs to be assessed. The present review evaluates research that has investigated all these measurements of honey bee/native bee competition and finds that many studies have problems with sample size, confounding factors or data interpretation. Guidelines for future research include increasing replication and using long-term studies to investigate the impact of both commercial and feral honey bees. PD AUG PY 2004 VL 29 IS 4 BP 399 EP 407 UT ISI:00022305755 ER PT J AU Goulson, D TI Effects of introduced bees on native ecosystems SO ANNUAL REVIEW OF ECOLOGY EVOLUTION AND SYSTEMATICS AB Bees are generally regarded as beneficial insects for their role in pollination, and in the case of the honeybee Apis mellifera, for production of honey. As a result several bee species have been introduced to countries far beyond their home range, including A. mellifera, bumblebees (Bombus sp.), the alfalfa leafcutter bee Megachile rotundata, and various other solitary species. Possible negative consequences of these introductions include: competition with native pollinators for floral resources; competition for nest sites; co-introduction of natural enemies, particularly pathogens that may infect native organisms; pollination of exotic weeds; and disruption of pollination of native plants. For most exotic bee species little or nothing is known of these possible effects. Research to date has focused mainly on A. mellifera, and has largely been concerned with detecting competition with native flower visitors. Considerable circumstantial evidence has accrued that competition does occur, but no experiment has clearly demonstrated long-term reductions in populations of native organisms. Most researchers agree that this probably reflects the difficulty of carrying out convincing studies of competition between such mobile organisms, rather than a genuine absence of competitive effects. Effects on seed set of exotic weeds are easier to demonstrate. Exotic bees often exhibit marked preferences for visiting flowers of exotic plants. For example, in Australia and New Zealand many weeds from Europe are now visited by European honeybees and bumblebees. Introduced bees are primary pollinators of a number of serious weeds. Negative impacts of exotic bees need to be carefully assessed before further introductions are carried out. PY 2003 VL 34 BP 1 EP 26 UT ISI:000220102
Re: [cg] mosquito control
Cover all your standing water! That's the best solution. Mosquito dunks are the next line of attack. You can also put a few drops of Dr. Bronner's peppermint soap in the water barrels. The soap doesn't harm plants but it drowns the larvae. It wears out a day or two so it's not a long term solution. Bats and birds and fish are fun solutions but not always dependable or effective. Mosquito fish will devour the larvae but if the barrel gets too warm the fish will expire. And people will probably end up watering their plants with fish by accident. William Hohauser President Sixth Street and Avenue B Garden Manhattan, NY On Apr 9, 2006, at 10:40 PM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Our community garden (6/15 Green) in Park Slope, Brooklyn, has been plagued by a phenomenal mosquito population over the past two years. We're trying to get a head start this year on covering out water barrels and other measures to avoid having as much of a problem this year. Have any other community gardens had success stories related to combating mosquitoes? One of the things we want to do is install a batbox or two. Has anyone had a success story with attracting a bat population? Care to share it with us? Thanks, Emily Brown __ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http:// www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: https:// secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden __ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden
Re: [cg] The NYC Garden Insurance Press Release
Thank you for posting this. I'm sure a number of gardens in New York City don't know the good news yet. William Hohauser President Sixth Street and Avenue B Garden New York City On Apr 9, 2006, at 10:12 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE Thursday, March 23, 2006 No. 17 http://www.nyc.gov/parks City Drops Liability Insurance Requirements For Community Gardeners Parks & Recreation Commissioner Adrian Benepe announced this week that the City would now extend municipal liability protection to community gardeners, thereby no longer requiring garden organizations to pay for private insurance policies. Previously gardeners were provided with affordable group insurance by the Neighborhood Open Space Coalition (NOSC), but, after years of rising costs, NOSC could no longer bear the financial and administrative burden. The announcement was first made to a gathering of hundreds of community gardeners at the annual GreenThumb "Grow Together" conference last Saturday at Hostos Community College. "This decision affects thousands of gardeners who maintain over 500 gardens on City-owned land," said Commissioner Benepe. "We look forward to providing gardeners the support they need in order for our gardens to bloom for years to come." Gardeners have been required to carry private liability insurance since the beginning of the GreenThumb program in 1978. The GreenThumb program is funded entirely by Federal Community Development Block Grant monies, which are disseminated throughout the City's low-income communities. For years, NOSC provided insurance to each garden at the cost of $250 per year. However, after a series of manmade and natural disasters, the cost per garden rose to $425 per year. "We want the gardeners planting flowers, not planning bake sales to pay for liability insurance," said Edie Stone, the head of GreenThumb. Since August 2005, the City has explored alternatives to the group insurance provided by NOSC. According to NOSC, only seven claims have ever been filed, and only three have resulted in payments to injured parties. Moreover, the City has repaired sidewalks and/or fences at dozens of gardens over the last year to reduce the likelihood of future injury claims. In the future, claims against the City resulting from injuries suffered in gardens will be treated the same as claims arising from incidents on all other City land. The City is self-insured and pays valid claims out of current tax revenue. __ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http:// www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: https:// secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden __ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden
Re: [cg] Good bee/bad bee
I'll ask the person as soon as I can. They worked for the Museum of Natural History at the time. Now they are doing research for a major university, don't remember the name. I rather take an expert's word then rely on observation. It's hard for us as casual observers to see exactly what's going on with bees, especially when native species are superficially similar to European honeybees. Our garden is definitely visited by domesticated bees from nearby. It's also good to remember that different flowers are pollinated by different animals: flies, beetles, ants, moths, butterflies. You could have a bee hive but the bees are flying off to find the right flowers. They come back of course. On Apr 6, 2006, at 11:28 AM, Mike McGrath wrote: I am a huge fan of native bees and in fact proposed making them more welcome in community gardens as an alternative to honeybee hives back when this thread started. But in 20 years of being professionally curious about bees and pollinators and reading and writing extensively about it, I've never heard this and really doubt it happens. (Of course, up till recently I thought bats ate lots of mosquitoes too, only to have the nation's leading expert explain otherwise to me a few weeks ago.) But those honeybees have enough problems already; and the natives often work other 'shifts'. Be interested to know that experts' source here ---Mike McG - Original Message - From: "William Hohauser" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, April 04, 2006 6:49 PM Subject: Re: [cg] seeking advice on integrating beekeeping into urban community gardening Just a note to gardens considering domesticated bees:: Please have an experienced entomologist study the existing bee population in your area. Honeybees will force out native species that are already using the garden. We are fortunate to have an experienced entomologist (major museum) as a member and she alerted us that we already had several native species visiting and living in our garden so our bee-related pollination needs were already covered. Honeybees are aggressive and will reduce resources for other bee species. The honey is nice but we voted to not have a hive. Perhaps honeybees work out fine in other areas. William Hohauser 6th Street & Avenue B Garden www.6bgarden.org On Apr 4, 2006, at 9:17 AM, Mike McGrath wrote: The thread isn't too old--Adam and I are! I like this angle a lot better than the garden going out looking for trouble. Very different when dedicated beekeepers looking for their own little 'community plot' come by and say "Hey lady--want a hive"? Then they have a place to play and the gardeners get the extra pollination. That's 'win-win'! ---Mike McG - Original Message - From: "Andrea Jadwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 11:16 PM Subject: Re: [cg] seeking advice on integrating beekeeping into urban community gardening I hope this thread is not too old because I'd like to add my two cents in support of beekeeping in community gardens. Here in San Francisco at my local community garden, we have two beekeepers (and a waiting list) who supply us with pollination and honey. In four years of beekeeping in the garden, we have never had a single gardener stung by a honey bee. It is a lot of work for the beekeepers (Varroa mites, mice, foulbrood) but they enjoy their avocation and know how to deal with the challenges (without pesticides). And the majority of gardeners are fascinated by the bees and very interested in learning about them. Honey bees' ability to adapt to dense urban areas is something that every city gardener can relate to! We did have some initial resistance from a couple of gardeners but experience has proven out the benefits vs the risks. If you're interested in attracting beekeepers to your garden, contact your local beekeeping association (there's one in every town) and get somebody who is experienced and responsible. This is key - inexperienced beekeepers are not the right fit for community gardens. Happy beekeeping, Andrea Jadwin White Crane Springs Community Garden San Francisco On Mar 23, 2006, at 7:17 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Beekeeping at the Clinton Community Garden in NYC It's a hoot having a working beehive, 8 blocks away from where the ball drops during the New Year's festivities in Times Square. While we love the honey, and sell it as a fundraiser and give it
Re: [cg] seeking advice on integrating beekeeping into urban community gardening
Just a note to gardens considering domesticated bees:: Please have an experienced entomologist study the existing bee population in your area. Honeybees will force out native species that are already using the garden. We are fortunate to have an experienced entomologist (major museum) as a member and she alerted us that we already had several native species visiting and living in our garden so our bee-related pollination needs were already covered. Honeybees are aggressive and will reduce resources for other bee species. The honey is nice but we voted to not have a hive. Perhaps honeybees work out fine in other areas. William Hohauser 6th Street & Avenue B Garden www.6bgarden.org On Apr 4, 2006, at 9:17 AM, Mike McGrath wrote: The thread isn't too old--Adam and I are! I like this angle a lot better than the garden going out looking for trouble. Very different when dedicated beekeepers looking for their own little 'community plot' come by and say "Hey lady--want a hive"? Then they have a place to play and the gardeners get the extra pollination. That's 'win-win'! ---Mike McG - Original Message - From: "Andrea Jadwin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, April 03, 2006 11:16 PM Subject: Re: [cg] seeking advice on integrating beekeeping into urban community gardening I hope this thread is not too old because I'd like to add my two cents in support of beekeeping in community gardens. Here in San Francisco at my local community garden, we have two beekeepers (and a waiting list) who supply us with pollination and honey. In four years of beekeeping in the garden, we have never had a single gardener stung by a honey bee. It is a lot of work for the beekeepers (Varroa mites, mice, foulbrood) but they enjoy their avocation and know how to deal with the challenges (without pesticides). And the majority of gardeners are fascinated by the bees and very interested in learning about them. Honey bees' ability to adapt to dense urban areas is something that every city gardener can relate to! We did have some initial resistance from a couple of gardeners but experience has proven out the benefits vs the risks. If you're interested in attracting beekeepers to your garden, contact your local beekeeping association (there's one in every town) and get somebody who is experienced and responsible. This is key - inexperienced beekeepers are not the right fit for community gardens. Happy beekeeping, Andrea Jadwin White Crane Springs Community Garden San Francisco On Mar 23, 2006, at 7:17 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Beekeeping at the Clinton Community Garden in NYC It's a hoot having a working beehive, 8 blocks away from where the ball drops during the New Year's festivities in Times Square. While we love the honey, and sell it as a fundraiser and give it away to political dignitaries, and "ahem," radio show hosts like Mike McGrath, we are able to run this garden in the midst of diesel particulate thick midtown Manhattan without toxic pesticides and with organic fertilizers BECAUSE of their pollinating power. Honey is sweet, natural pollination is sweeter. We are so fortunate in having a retired NYC High School teacher named Sid Glazer who trained as a beekeeper before a post- retirement stint in Central America as a Peace Corp Volunteer? Remember the Peace Corps? When Americans were known for exports of non-military technical assistance? Anyway, Sid Glazer is our head beekeeper who also works as a volunteer at the world famous Wave Hill Garden in Riverdale. We had tried it earlier with another volunteer - but beekeeping requires someone who really pays attention to the bees, and will get their fanny to the garden ASAP when there is a swarm. Hedigus is another fine volunteer and as I'm the resident "Honigman," I sometimes put on the beekeeper's helmet and help out. The Clinton Community Garden DOES NOT use pesticides, because they'd kill the bees. But you need to have beekeeping equipment and the understanding that sometimes your colony of tame Italiain bees will be killed by mites, or not survive the winter. But when it works, and you have new clean "supers," fresh bees and luck, keeping bees is well worth it. Bees and neighbors: We keep the beehive next to a solid brick wall, in our Native American Bed, not close to neighbors windows. We also get on swarms with a smoker right away. There are risks to bees - some folks are deathly allergic to them, so we tell folks that we have a beehive, and tell people not to let their kids play
Re: [cg] Help! Dealing with an ADA ramp
This can be tough or easy depending on the way your local authorities interpret the act and the way the garden is. For example, in our garden we had a problem with making the main entrance reliably accessible. The garden is on a 10% incline towards the sidewalk and that creates a lot of erosion. We have an entrance that a truck can (and does) drive into but the soil kept washing out and creating a very un-wheelchair friendly surface. The prevailing interpretation of the law is that if it's easily accessible by wheelchair, you've made the grade. We first tried flattening down the ground and using gravel but that would get kicked out into the street and wash away during heavy rains. We also tried setting slate slabs down ourselves but once again the rain and snow would ruin it in a year or less. Eventually we came to realization that a professional installation would probably be the only way to go. An industrious garden member applied for a grant which was awarded so we could hire a pro. The contractor excavated the ground which was compacted landfill. Their back-hoe had a tough time. They constructed a drainage system, placed several layers of different size gravel and topped it with custom cut slate and rock brick borders. The result? A wheelchair friendly pathway that has lasted three years without any wear or erosion damage. The best result is that we are now regularly visited by residents of the local nursing home who previously found the garden path tough to negotiate. Cost? $14,000. Not far from your estimate. If you can demonstrate that the garden in it's existing condition is wheelchair accessible or with minor work could be, you should be good to go. The path should be flat and lump free. No place for a small wheel or a cane to get stuck. Borrow a wheelchair, weigh it down if you can't find someone to sit in it, and try to manuever it around. It should have enough room to turn around easily. William Hohauser President 6th Street & Avenue B Garden New York, NY On Apr 1, 2006, at 7:48 AM, Don Boekelheide wrote: Hi, 'green brain trust', Our garden project serving the homeless faces a decision-making crisis coping with a ramp required by the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). Has anyone met ADA ramp requirements in a cost-effective way, especially through contributions, sweat-equity work on construction, or smart design? Has anyone used a lift (I know, it sounds nuts to me, too) where a ramp wouldn't work or cost too much? Anyone have any good contacts or resources on ramps and access? - the how-to, since the 'why' is obvious. In a nutshell (the whole story follows), city zoning will revoke the current temporary certificate of occupancy for the Urban Ministry Center's new building - effectively shutting down services to the homeless - unless the Center creates an ADA ramp to their new garden behind the new building. The contractor says an ADA ramp will cost a cool $16,000. Center management has responded by advancing two options: Plan A, formally shut down the Center's garden program, wall off the garden space, and at least on paper call it quits (while maybe having 'some kind of garden' 'appear' in the space at some later date...); or Plan B, get influential political contacts within the community to put pressure on Zoning to drop the requirement. Currently, if Plan B fails, we do Plan A. No one in senior management or among the professionals seems to be seriously considering building the access ramp. Drawings of the architect and contractor's expensive plan do not even show the garden in total, it appears to be a slapdash effort simply to meet the zoning requirement. There has been only one brief formal (and unproductive) meeting between garden staff, management and the contractor (months ago), and no design charette or design meeting at all involving the architect and garden staff. Simply put, the garden does need a ramp - now more than ever, as they say. But the garden manager (a small and fairly new fish) and garden supporters have to 'sell' it to skeptical management within the Center, and get buy-in abd engagement from the architect and contractor. And, now, the ramp has to meet zoning/ADA requirements. HELP! For anyone interested, here's the background. It reads like one of those case studies in the ACGA Growing Communities workshop: Urban Ministry Center just built a fancy new multimillion dollar building (it's nice!) for our soup kitchen, counseling and other services. The building (of course) sits directly atop where our old community garden used to be. We relocated the garden to a sloping area behind the new building, and the developer carved a 3000 ft2 flat area out of the hillside to create a new garden space. With much fanfare, we formed a 'Garden Angels' support group and raised a bunch of mone
Re: [cg] Fwd: [tb-cybergardens]: Insurance/No Insurance
Has there been a formal announcement of this new policy? William Hohauser President 6th Street and Avenue B Garden New York City On Mar 22, 2006, at 1:49 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's Jon Crow's intial message on Community Garden Insurance from Parks -Original Message- From: jon crow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wed, 22 Mar 2006 13:12:37 -0500 (GMT-05:00) Subject: [tb-cybergardens]: Insurance/No Insurance News from the tb-cybergardens mailing list - The biggest news to gardeners at the Annual GrowTogether this past weekend was that the Parks department will no longer require gardens to carry insurance. In the future, as has been the case since our previous insurance policies expired, anyone hurt in the gardens will have to take their cases through the city lawsuit process (maybe Edie can explain more). As you can imagine, the announcement was followed by cheers of happiness and relief, as the rising costs of insuring the gardens was getting unaffordable for groups with little outside resources. Not to mention our beloved NOSC, which almost went broke trying to fund the effort. Many wondered why sports players were never asked to anti-up with their aggressive use of Parks property, while we passive gardeners were expected to empty our banks. One convincing reason was always that, unlike Parks, city employees were not constant visitors to our garden sites. So, to maintain the autonomy of deciding how we use our spaces, we were being asked to make the investment. Now, it seems that no insurance carrier could be found to make coverage affordable to the garden groups (NOSC found the same roadblock when it tried) and Parks concluded it would make better sense to treat the gardens more like b?oparksb? , and let injuries be settled with lawsuits against the City. Note to garden groups from Benepe: please KEEP YOUR GARDENS SAFE!!! Big thanks to Parks for figuring this out to our advantage, for trusting us to continue stewarding our gardens in a responsible manner, and for making the "Parks" Gardens feel a big step closer to being recognized as legitimate City Parks properties. Also, a million thanks go to NOSC for being there for the gardens over the years. I was sad that no one from NOSC was at the GrowTogether this year. In my mind, they will ALWAYS be part of the heart and soul of the Community Garden Movement in NYC. Left out in this process are the Land Trust Gardens, which continue to look for an affordable coverage for the properties they will soon own. NYRP will continue covering their sites, but when TPL passes ownership on to the 3 land trust, theyb?Tll need to carry that burden themselves. crow - To add or remove yourself from this list, please send a message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word SUBSCRIBE or UNSUBSCRIBE in the BODY of the message. To receive a reference guide to this mailing list, send a message to tb-cybergardens- [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the word HELP in the BODY of the message. __ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http:// www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: https:// secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden __ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden
Re: [cg] Barrels to store rainwater for greenhouse gardening
It's an interesting question. I am only guessing that a plastic designed to house acidic food stuffs would be more resistant to leaching but for how long? In our garden we are more worried about the rainwater itself as it carries city soot and other unknown pollutants. A rain barrel can serve as a place where these rain carried contaminants can build up over the course of the year. We have access to city tap water so our vegetable growers tend to use that more. WH Sixth Street & Avenue B Garden NYC On Feb 15, 2006, at 8:35 AM, Fred Conrad wrote: like Judy said, i'm thinking that the "leakage" is carcinogenic chemicals into the water. softer plastics leak more and faster and at all temperatures. most cancer survivors that have done any research about environmental exposure know that nobody ever should ever use a microwave oven to heat food that is in or covered by plastic - especially not to cover the food with that stretchy soft plastic wrap to keep it from splattering. at high temps there is measurable transference into the food. these are serious health issues. on the question of uptake of these chemicals by vegetables via water... who knows? rain barrels probably don't get hot enough to change the emission rate, but even at room temperature they might be leaking something. multiplied by how long the water stays in the barrels? i use plastic rainbarrels, by the way! fgc -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Garth Taylor Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 10:56 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [cg] Barrels to store rainwater for greenhouse gardening Does anyone have advice on the best type of barrel to use to capture rainwater from the roof, bring it inside a greenhouse, and use it to water fruits and vegetables. I have been using 55-gallon blue plastic barrels that were once used for some kind of food transport. I like the barrels because they are easy to work with - I can use PVC materials to install spigots and overflow drains; and because they are low cost. But someone told me there is a risk of leakage from the plastic into the water where there is a high temperature. Has anyone heard about this problem? How high does the temperature have to be? Are we talking about the temperature of the water in the barrel (which is always pretty low because it is a heat/cold sink), or the temperature of the air? What would be a better system? Also, where can I get more of these blue barrels? Thanks, =Garth Taylor Chicago / Southwest Michigan __ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http:// www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: https:// secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden __ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http:// www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: https:// secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden __ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden
Re: [cg] Barrels to store rainwater for greenhouse gardening
High temperature leakage is a new one on me. The likelihood for a leak comes from letting water freeze in the barrel. The best thing is to empty the barrels in late fall and turn them upside-down. Our garden barrels were once used to transport olives or pickles and they have us lasted over 15 years. I suggest contacting a local food warehouse or supermarket that might have a few leftover barrels. Barrels like these tend to get re-used so it might be hard to find some. William Hohauser 6th Street & Avenue B Garden New York City On Feb 14, 2006, at 10:56 AM, Garth Taylor wrote: Does anyone have advice on the best type of barrel to use to capture rainwater from the roof, bring it inside a greenhouse, and use it to water fruits and vegetables. I have been using 55-gallon blue plastic barrels that were once used for some kind of food transport. I like the barrels because they are easy to work with - I can use PVC materials to install spigots and overflow drains; and because they are low cost. But someone told me there is a risk of leakage from the plastic into the water where there is a high temperature. Has anyone heard about this problem? How high does the temperature have to be? Are we talking about the temperature of the water in the barrel (which is always pretty low because it is a heat/cold sink), or the temperature of the air? What would be a better system? Also, where can I get more of these blue barrels? Thanks, =Garth Taylor Chicago / Southwest Michigan __ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http:// www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: https:// secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden __ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden
Re: [cg] Question of Usage
This is a tough one since virtually every community garden experiences a different usage pattern, even ones a few steps away from another. Your garden design will dictate occupancy and usage more than anything else. If you build a large community area with benches and tables and plan to hold events in the garden you can expect a number of people, especially during the events. How large depends on your assessment of your community. If the majority of the garden is raised beds, you can figure that the garden will be more of a stroll and you will not have a large number of people at any one time. The 6th Street and Avenue B Garden in New York is about 60% raised beds and the rest open community areas, a children's play area and an event stage. We have a number of benches and other sitting areas. Over the years we have found that we get about the same amount of people for events (average 50) but the past few years we have more casual visitors who like to sit and spend the afternoon. Open the gates on a modestly warm day and people come in. 10 years ago the same warm day might bring only a few people the whole day. This is due to the changing character of our neighborhood. Our garden is right on a main street and lots of people walk by all the time. We have a reasonably large space for New York and I'll venture that the most we've had in the garden is about 200 people and this was very unusual and very crowded. You have to see how visible and accessible your garden is to the public, this will dramatically effect how many people show up. Hours of operation should be factored into your plan. William Hohauser President 6th Street and Avenue B Garden New York, NY On Jan 21, 2006, at 12:12 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Friends, The Sunnyvale City Council found wisdom last week as they voted to give our fledgling non-profit, Sustainable Community Gardens, the land that we have been seeking for nearly two years, right smack in the heart of our civic center, for a community garden. We have five years to make it something they won't want to take away from us. My task and the reason I am writing, is to determine the USAGE patterns of the garden without my ever having experienced a community garden. How many people attend your gardens at any given time? What is the maximum and what percentage of the maximum occupancy of your garden is this number? We are planning 87 raised garden beds and I need to pro-actively report to the city before getting our USE permit, what I think the maximum usage at any given time will be. Your experienced feedback would be much appreciated. Thank you, Josh Salans Sunnyvale, CA __ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http:// www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: https:// secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden __ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden
[cg] Re: Open Letter On More Important Things - Making Our Gardens Worth Saving.
I have to agree that this community board is better suited to discussing garden issues than personal attacks. E-mail and board posting, by it's impersonal nature, can unwittingly lead to vitriolic verbiage that nobody would normally say to another's face. This has been a problem in my garden for a while and it has come to the point that, as garden president, I will not advance community discussion by e-mail anymore. It quickly degenerates into name calling if the topic is the slightest bit controversial. I tell people to come to the monthly meeting or if they can't be there, have someone represent their opinion. I will only use e-mail for one-on-one communications or important announcements. In defense of Edie Stone and Greenthumb, she is running an underfunded organization that is answering to a very large bureaucracy (Edie, please correct me if I say something inaccurate). She has always treated the 6 & B Garden with respect and courtesy. Our gardens are an example of the people taking over from government and private ownership and creating a community service. The gardens are an anomaly in the structure of the city and in a society that reacts fearfully to community ownership, it's going to be a hard trek to finally secure the gardens permanently. In some ways it's amazing that we are where we are now. Every major move Greenthumb (and Parks) is taking now is a step into uncharted territory. The insurance problem was an example. I say "was" because I don't see a problem anymore. Yes, I expressed the garden's discomfort with the handling of communication but we see it as something that's now in the past. Edie is on our side, we have to work together or watch another beautiful part of our city go down the drain of commercialism and blind profits.. Boards like this are great. Gardeners don't have enough opportunity to interact with each other in their own city much less with gardeners from around the country. Let's keep this board working in a positive way. William Hohauser President 6th Street & Avenue B Garden New York City __ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden
Re: [cg] Fencing, theft & vandalism
It's very interesting to hear the different approaches to fences from around the country. Here in Manhattan a fence is a necessity since without it we would have: 1) Homeless people sleeping all over (our sympathies are with the homeless but the garden is not the right place). 2) Illegal drug dealing and drug taking. 3) Rampant vandalism. With the fence very little or none of the above happens. Our garden started when the avenue we are on was a notorious drug supermarket. Once the fence went up the garden became a sanctuary from the desperation and crime outside the gate. We also have to light parts of the garden at night to prevent people from using the children's area as a drug den. It happened a few years ago, people were climbing the fence and using the children's area all night long. In the morning, parents would find needles and other unsavory things. A strategically placed, energy efficient light ended that, but we have to pay the increased electric bill. Some gardens in our area open the garden and leave it unmonitored all day but our experience tells us not to do it that way. William Hohauser 6th Street & Avenue B Garden New York, NY __ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden
Re: [cg] Fencing
Here in New York City every community garden I have seen is fenced in. Of course NY has it's unique set of problems that require a fence, theft definitely being one of them. Even with a tall fence we loose our peaches every year. The tree is bursting with peaches at night, next morning the tree is stripped bare of fruit. We have never discovered the thief who must be a courageous tree climber to get all the fruit. In our garden: - Every plot holder gets a key and we change the locks every few years. - By agreement with the city we obliged to be open 10 hours a week. However we keep the garden open at other times additionally, as long as someone is willing to monitor the garden. Some ideas: - A group of three people is effectively an association, have a meeting to discuss how to have the garden open. - Check with your municipality and see if a fence is acceptable to them as it is a public park. There might be factors that will prevent the construction of a fence. - If you can't build a fence, consider growing plants that are less likely to be stolen or accidentally destroyed. Flowers and fruit are prime picking temptations. Delicate ground plants are prime victims of errant feet. Tall plants, bushes, raised beds can help prevent accidental plant damage. William Hohauser 6th Street & Avenue B Garden New York, NY On Oct 24, 2005, at 1:04 PM, Cary Oshins wrote: Neither of the two gardens (both around 10 plots) that I manage have fencing, and theft is the #1 problem. They are both situated on public parks, and neither has an effective association. My question to those with fences: Are they locked? Does every plot-holder get a key? Are there limited access hours? I'd be interested to hear how these and related details are worked out. Cary Lehigh County, PA -Original Message- From: Jim Call [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 10:18 PM To: eliz Cc: ACGA listserve Subject: RE: [cg] Fencing Elizabeth, If you cruise ACGA links page (http://www.communitygarden.org/ links.php) viewing various CG(s), you will notice most have some type of security fence. At our old location in a high tech research park, we did not have a fence. There was very little pedestrian traffic except for an occasional runner. We had virtually no vandalism and only a couple of times I caught someone illegally harvesting. When the city moved our garden to an urban environment, I insisted on having a 6' high fence to surround it. Presently, we keep the gates unlocked and we haven't had a problem. One shed is unlocked and the tool shed's doors are completely off. Who would want to steal some hoes, shovels, and other gardening tools... especially when it means they would have to do some physical work to use them? I wouldn't worry about school kids stealing vegetables and they will not be interested in gardening materials as well. Of course, if you put up scarecrows, that may intice their interest to vandalize them. Jim -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of eliz Sent: Saturday, October 22, 2005 8:06 PM Cc: ACGA listserve Subject: [cg] Fencing Are there any community gardens who have not had to put up a fence for security? We are building a community garden behind a church in our predominantly low-income neighborhood. We were hoping to avoid putting up a fence as many people use the site as a short-cut to school, library and businesses. With very little out there so far, we have already experienced some vandalism. Any suggestions? Elizabeth Austin, Texas __ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden __ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden __ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http:// www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: https://
[cg] NYC Gardens Insurance Update - IMPORTANT!
I had a phone meeting with Jack Linn from NYC Parks today. Good news to be shared. - First of all, the gardens in NYC are covered by city insurance right now. This is for "reasonable use" accidents which should cover 99% of any problems that might occur in a garden. "Reasonable use" are actions that are within the normal operation of a garden. Digging, moving wood, watering, etc. including garden construction. - Garden members are not personally liable for accidents on garden property unless they are behaving outside "reasonable use". Not alerting citizens to dangerous conditions might fall into this. - There will be a new insurance program that the gardens will have to make a modest contribution to. It should be less then what the last premium was. The city is right now researching the terms and insurance companies that will cover gardens. They will contact us through GreenThumb when the time is right. - All accidents requiring emergency services (police, ambulances) should be reported to GreenThumb immediately. - A few gardens might have to change structures depending on the insurance company's policy. Hope this relieves some of the worry. I also found out that the last insurance company wanted over $500 from each garden for the new policy which is why NOSC dropped the program. William Hohauser President 6th Street & Avenue B Garden __ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden
[cg] NYC Garden Insurance correction
There is no insurance coverage under NOSC as of NOW! This applies to all gardens with the NYC Parks emblem on their gates. Other gardens should call immediately NOSC or Greenthumb if they have not been presented with a bill for the premium for September 2005 to August 2006. The last insurance policy ran out at the end of it's term on August 30, 2005. NOSC decided not to extend it's blanket policy insurance program for the gardens due to the fact that it was ruining NOSC's own finances. Here are the reasons as I understand them: 1) The gardens that had accidents were not reporting them to NOSC who would pass the info on to the insurance carrier. The insurance carriers would learn about lawsuits by being served. This is a violation of the policy as signed by NOSC. NOSC had no control over the gardens' reporting yet was responsible for it. 2) There were several lawsuits against gardens over the past few years that resulted in the garden policy being dropped by different insurance carriers. NOSC did a commendable job getting new insurance coverage but it taxed their limited budget and resources. 3) The last insurance program was significantly more expensive due to the bad track record of the gardens over the years. According to NOSC, many gardens never paid the full premium leaving NOSC covering the bill. This is with the understanding that many gardens don't have the resources to raise the amount but NOSC can't do it any longer. 4) An accident in a garden early this year (not 6BC, I don't know who), not reported to NOSC, left the last insurance carrier with a bad taste. Whether the insurance carrier raised the premium or cancelled the policy, I also don't know. It is possible that if your garden is under NYC Parks that their insurance policy is now in effect, but guess what? They at NYC Parks don't know for sure! And it's possible that the terms of the policy will require many gardens will have to be inspected and impliment changes in the physical structures of their garden to comply with the policy. We were warned about this during the license renewal meetings and at the NYC garden seminar held at City College back in April. Please do your own investigations, as I said I'll be talking to Parks this week and will post the results of the meeting. William Hohauser President 6th Street & Avenue B Garden __ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden
Re: [cg] 6th Street & Avenue B Garden responds
I'm glad we have taken the level down a notch. One of my main imperatives as garden president for the last two years is to increase community interaction between the garden members and the community. While we do a great job with free events, our garden has historically been poor with other communications. That is being addressed now. Come down and see some of the signs we have installed. We created a "Natural History of the LES" sign that could be in a museum. It is right next to the Ave. B gate. Personally I spearheaded the creation of a garden brochure which explains the garden and the concept of community gardens for all the tourists we get here now. It is in it's finally stages, the whole garden is editing it! We'll have it printed for the spring. One person is not a community garden but one person can make or break a garden at times. On the issue of LES gardens. I don't know what the story with the LES is (and I have lived here for 20 years) but a lot of gardens have an outreach problem. It might have something to do with the large number of eccentrics around here (and I'm one of them!). I am the first to admit that there are a small number of prickly personalities in our garden who come off wrong. They also happen to do a lot of good work. It's a problem. Fifteen years ago, I was first involved with another garden that made my wife, child and I unwelcome simply because we had a child who was a year old! A friend of mine had to stage an overthrow at another garden just to get a functioning democratic committee going. Neighborhoods have their character and characters, the LES for some reason creates defensive sometimes nasty gardeners. Thanks for your invitation to the meeting. We hold our meetings in the garden rain or shine on the fourth Sunday of every month when the weather is warm enough. We always invite other gardens to observe our brand of democracy and be inspired to create their own version at their garden. From what I've heard, very few gardens in our vicinity have a functioning government like your garden or Liz Christy or ours. As much as I would like to lend a hand on the 15th, I am working in our garden doing some of the same work. Our maintenance chair had work issues and was forced to step down last month. As president, I am filling in the gap until a new chair is elected. Only so much energy. I don't know how you manage 5000 keyholders much less 500. When our garden keys get distributed beyond the membership the garden inevitably gets trashed, badly. We decided to tightly control key access. The insurance issue, believe me or not, is true. I talked to Toby Brant three weeks ago and had the news confirmed by Edie Stone. As I stated, nobody has told the gardens, I had to call. The reason I called NOSC was in reaction to the problem at 6BC Garden. In short, a woman sitting in the garden had her foot crushed by rocks falling off an unstable wheelbarrow. The garden was not being monitored by a garden member and the person operating the wheelbarrow was a non- member volunteer. The 6BC garden is temporarily closed now. I am now in discussion with NYC Parks about the garden insurance issue. I'll update the community garden board this week after my meeting with them. Until the garden insurance issue is resolved,"When the gate is closed the garden is closed". It's necessary evil but in the 6 & B Garden we'll discuss better ways to communicate it. WIlliam Hohauser President 6th Street & Avenue B Garden PS - If I was at the garden when the California visitor showed up and she identified herself as a fellow gardener, she would have been allowed in but that's me and I personally would have assumed responsibility for her. PPS - Please call me William, just an eccentricity on my part! On Oct 7, 2005, at 7:48 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > I'm glad I managed to get a rise out of you on this accessibilty > issue, Bill. I ain't the only keeper of the garden -we have 4,999 > + others too. :) > > I know, as a community gardener who has visited 6B on days when > gardeners are inside and the gates are locked, to come in and be > told, "when the gates are closed, we're closed," myself ,for years > (and I helped dig the place out with Liz Christy) and kept my mouth > shut about it - for the cause, that it's been our "dirty little > secret," > > The exception has been, when a great gardener, who respects other > visiting gardeners, like Carolyn Ratcliffe has been inside those > garden gates, and graciously showed folks about the place. > > Honest injun - over the years we've hasd garden visitors at the > CCG who've said, in reference to 6B, and some other LES gardens, > that they &q
[cg] 6th Street & Avenue B Garden responds
As president of the 6 & B Garden I have to respond to the e-mail posted earlier. First off I would like to apologize for the garden not being able to accommodate the poster when you were there. I don't wish to discount the disappointment of a person who wished to enter the garden during off hours but a reminder of the realities of running a community garden in New York City is appropriate at this point. First off, nobody gets paid to run a community garden. This might seem an obvious statement but it is even forgotten by the members of our garden. The people in the garden are volunteers who do all the work which is frequently hard to complete when the public is using the garden. Not opening the garden at times is necessary for the volunteers to do the needed maintenance so the garden can be open to the public. We have to remember that most of the volunteers are hard working people who put time into the garden AFTER working full time jobs. I don't know about other cities, but New York is a very demanding place that has not gotten easier in the 22 years of the garden's existence. We get no money from the city despite the city emblem on the fence. Everything in the garden is the result of very hard volunteer work. We administer the garden democratically with elected officers and monthly members meetings to discuss issues. Maybe insurance is not problem for community gardens elsewhere, but here in New York City it's a very big problem. Letting people in when hoses are out and wheelbarrows are being used is quite simply a big, big mistake. A nearby garden learned the hard way just a month ago and now they have to be closed until the lawsuit is settled. An insurance claim can ruin a garden. How are volunteers going to pay a large lawsuit award against a community garden? The city requires all community gardens to be open a minimum of 10 hours a week to the public and the hours be posted. This rule is to ensure that the gardens are open at some point during the week. We post our hours very clearly in two places. Our garden happens to be open well in excess of the minimum requirement but that's at the discretion of individual members who accept the responsibility of monitoring the garden. Our garden puts on nearly a hundred free events during the Spring, Summer and Fall. Music, dance, films, art projects, a Halloween haunted house, all free and open to anyone. Most of the time our visitors are happy people who enjoy the garden and we enjoy providing an urban oasis for them, however monitoring a garden in Manhattan's Lower East Side is a daunting task at times. We can't tell how many times drunks, drug addicts, drug dealers, mentally unstable individuals and other unfortunates have had to be dealt with in the garden. The partially naked pedophile that I and another garden member had to chase out and get a police officer after was one of the more unpleasant experiences of my life. A sizable minority come in and abuse the garden with trash, destructive behavior and unsupervised children (we blame the parents, not the children). We have people who come in and treat the garden as a free florist and fruit and vegetable stand. Confronting these people can be very disturbing for the average person. Even with these problems we keep the garden open as much as possible. The garden being closed at times is an unfortunate inconvenience and we apologize but there's no way to keep the garden open all the time. Letting one person in and not the next is the wrong way to go. Having clear open hours and door policies is the only way. Now if someone came to us and said, "Here's $60,000 a year. Hire people to keep the garden open, just like a city park", believe me, we would do it. Until then, our hours (and events) are posted at our web site, www. 6bgarden.org . I hope that everyone can come by. William Hohauser President 6 & B Garden, New York, NY 10009 __ The American Community Gardening Association listserve is only one of ACGA's services to community gardeners. To learn more about the ACGA and to find out how to join, please go to http://www.communitygarden.org To post an e-mail to the list: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To subscribe, unsubscribe or change your subscription: https://secure.mallorn.com/mailman/listinfo/community_garden
