Re: [Computer-go] Ataxx
> Thanks for sharing this information. I will implement Ataxx in my generic > Crazy Zero framework as soon as I have a little free time. Even your test-program is already a great succes: when I checked it won all the games! I'm very curious how it will work against ataxxzero en lelax. http://server.ataxx.org/xtable.php?xt=crazyzero_test > By the way, I have revived the game AI forum, and re-organized it a bit: > https://www.game-ai-forum.org/ > I posted your link there. I will also report about my experiments in that > forum. cool! ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] Ataxx
Hi, Slightly off-topic but I'm hoping there are Go-lovers out there who may be interested. Especially as it looks to my untrained eyes that Ataxx and Go are somewhat similar. Ataxx has been around for a while. Strangely enough there was no real community around it for developing an AI like the Chess and Go games have. There have been plenty of GUI implementations of it, but no machine against machine battles. That has changed. On IRC, we have ##chessprogramming (on webchat.freenode.net) in which people mostly discuss Ataxx (yes). Also a website has been put up that will discuss how to make an Ataxx-AI (like the Chess Programming Wiki): https://www.ataxx.org I'm hoping others will chime in with their implementation of Ataxx and start the battle with us! Folkert van Heusden -- ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] scoring
Hi, For my toy Go program I'm currently working on scoring. I've implemented the Tromp Taylor algorithm. As a comparison I use gnugo. Now something odd is happening. If I setup a board of size 11 (boardsize 11), then put a stone (play b a1) and then ask it to run the scoring (final_score), then it takes minutes before it finishes. That alone is kind of strange with only 1 stone? Furthermore it returns a score of "B+9.0". I would expect a score of B+121.0 there. Where am I going wrong here? Folkert van Heusden ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] looking for positions to test scoring
Hi, I'm writing a Go program. When writing difficult code I implement unit-tests also. Now I'm looking for test positions to verify that I've implemented scoring correctly. Googling for such did not bring up a lot. Thanks in advance. Folkert van Heusden -- -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] what would $gtp-program do
Quite a few fixes have been done; time-management and communication with gtp engines has been improved. Also proper command-line handling. > I was curious what gnugo would do when presented with the moves from > alpha go. > To be honest I did not google for software that can compare this. I > wrote a small python-script (only tested on Linux) which loads in an > .sgf-file and then "asks" a GTP protocol compatible Go-program what it > would to in each board-setup. > Time-management is a bit dodgy and I may have taken maybe too many > shortcuts for implementing sgf parsing and gtp-chatting but sofar it > worked fine with an sgf posted on this mailinglist together with gnugo > 3.8. > The output is for each move the move performed by the sgf-player and > the move played by the gtp-program you use. At the end it emits: > Compared 90 black and 90 white moves. 19 (21.1%) black moves ok, 20 (22.2%) > white moves ok (total: 21.7%) Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail ist eine flexible Applikation um Logfiles und Kommando Eingaben zu überprüfen. Inkl. Filter, Farben, Zusammenführen, Ansichten etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] what would $gtp-program do
I was curious what gnugo would do when presented with the moves from alpha go. To be honest I did not google for software that can compare this. I wrote a small python-script (only tested on Linux) which loads in an .sgf-file and then "asks" a GTP protocol compatible Go-program what it would to in each board-setup. Time-management is a bit dodgy and I may have taken maybe too many shortcuts for implementing sgf parsing and gtp-chatting but sofar it worked fine with an sgf posted on this mailinglist together with gnugo 3.8. The output is for each move the move performed by the sgf-player and the move played by the gtp-program you use. At the end it emits: Compared 90 black and 90 white moves. 19 (21.1%) black moves ok, 20 (22.2%) white moves ok (total: 21.7%) The sourcecode can be found on github: https://github.com/flok99/go-compare Folkert van Heusden -- https://www.vanheusden.com/stop/ ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Fwd: mental imagery in Go
It is a collection of evaluations. They are applied to each cross. Then the cross with the highest evaluation sum is chosen. On Sat, Aug 01, 2015 at 09:11:29PM -0700, Igor Polyakov wrote: > I'm very curious about your bot because I haven't seen how exactly it works. > What algorithm does it use to generate moves? > > On 2015-08-01 7:08, folkert wrote: > >Hi, > > > >You can take a look at https://youtu.be/c3wbE1V4bTc > >It shows the thought proces of my Go program called Stop: > >http://www.vanheusden.com/stop/ > > > >Note that it is, to say the leat, rather weak. > > > > > >On Sat, Aug 01, 2015 at 02:46:49PM +1000, djhbrown . wrote: > >>i'm looking for people with expertise in > >>???art, ??? > >>computer graphics > >>???,??? > >>and/or AI software to help me make a video series about mental imagery in > >>Go, partly with a view to expressing mental images in the form of heuristic > >>rules that a program could use to generate and evaluate candidate moves. > >> > >>any takers? > >> > >>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om_CVAevU8o > >> > >>-- > >>???personal website <http://sites.google.com/site/djhbrown2/home> > >>___ > >>Computer-go mailing list > >>Computer-go@computer-go.org > >>http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > > > > > >Folkert van Heusden > > > > ___ > Computer-go mailing list > Computer-go@computer-go.org > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go Folkert van Heusden -- You've probably gotten really fed up with never winning in the Mega- Millions lottery. Well, weep no longer: www.smartwinning.info tells you everything that might help you deciding what numbers to choose. With nice graphs and pretty animations! ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Fwd: mental imagery in Go
Hi, You can take a look at https://youtu.be/c3wbE1V4bTc It shows the thought proces of my Go program called Stop: http://www.vanheusden.com/stop/ Note that it is, to say the leat, rather weak. On Sat, Aug 01, 2015 at 02:46:49PM +1000, djhbrown . wrote: > i'm looking for people with expertise in > ???art, ??? > computer graphics > ???,??? > and/or AI software to help me make a video series about mental imagery in > Go, partly with a view to expressing mental images in the form of heuristic > rules that a program could use to generate and evaluate candidate moves. > > any takers? > > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Om_CVAevU8o > > -- > ???personal website <http://sites.google.com/site/djhbrown2/home> > ___ > Computer-go mailing list > Computer-go@computer-go.org > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go Folkert van Heusden -- Want to finally win in the MegaMillions lottery? www.smartwinning.info -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Strange GNU Go ladder behavior
check the output of `dmesg' to see if it segfaulted and/or ulimit -c unlimited so that you will find a core file On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 03:45:18PM -0700, Peter Drake wrote: > Nope, we're still getting these crashes with more memory in the system. It > still looks like it's always GNU Go that's crashing, and it always happens > some way into a ladder that Orego shouldn't really be playing out. > > On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 3:24 PM, Peter Drake wrote: > > > I have no idea what GNU Go does for memory management, but that does offer > > up a possibility: maybe the machine in question (a Google Compute Engine > > instance) is running out of memory. I've been using the highcpu machine > > types; I'll try a standard one (which has more memory) and see if the same > > thing happens. > > > > > > On Thu, Jun 18, 2015 at 1:41 PM, uurtamo . wrote: > > > >> What does it do for memory management? Is it ungracefully failing while > >> evaluating the ladder itself due to ram issues? > >> > >> steve > >> On Jun 18, 2015 12:15 PM, "Peter Drake" wrote: > >> > >>> This list may not be able to help, but I'm running out of clues on this > >>> one. > >>> > >>> I'm trying to run an experiment playing Orego against GNU Go in many > >>> games. Some of the games don't end properly. As far as I can tell, here's > >>> what happens: > >>> > >>> 1) Orego plays out a losing ladder. (That needs to be fixed, but that's > >>> another problem.) > >>> 2) At some point in the ladder, GNU Go quietly dies without responding > >>> to the move request. > >>> > >>> Has anyone else encountered this? > >>> > >>> -- > >>> Peter Drake > >>> https://sites.google.com/a/lclark.edu/drake/ > >>> > >>> ___ > >>> Computer-go mailing list > >>> Computer-go@computer-go.org > >>> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > >>> > >> > >> ___ > >> Computer-go mailing list > >> Computer-go@computer-go.org > >> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Peter Drake > > https://sites.google.com/a/lclark.edu/drake/ > > > > > > -- > Peter Drake > https://sites.google.com/a/lclark.edu/drake/ > ___ > Computer-go mailing list > Computer-go@computer-go.org > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go Folkert van Heusden -- Ever wonder what is out there? Any alien races? Then please support the seti@home project: setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] CGOS
> > 24/7 is only useful, if other than open source bots are run on the > > server, otherwise the author can run it simply on gomill... > > While I agree that it is not ideal having so few programs running, > shutting down the server is even worse, or not? If it runs stable for a while, people will return. Folkert van Heusden -- -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] animated
Hi, I was curious if a board shown in a different way would give new insights. My first experiment can be seen here: http://vps001.vanheusden.com/~folkert/go-hon45_09.mpg What I did is update a board each move and then for each board draw it next to the previous board. So if you put a stone on a1, then you will eventually see a line from it. I did not remove dead stones here. Black is green, white is red. Folkert van Heusden -- -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] CGOS
So that bad players are not getting 0 elo. On Sat, May 02, 2015 at 11:59:17AM +0200, Erik van der Werf wrote: > Baseline for worst play? Why? > > Paris Hilton?? > Op 2 mei 2015 11:42 schreef "folkert" : > > > I'm running parishilton it now so that you have a baseline for the > > worst play. > > > > On Sat, May 02, 2015 at 07:21:05AM +0200, Detlef Schmicker wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > I set up a CGOS server at home. It is connected via dyndns, which is not > > > optimal of cause :( > > > > > > physik.selfhost.eu > > > > > > Ports: > > > 8080 (webinterface) > > > 8083 (19x19, GnuGo 3.8 set to ELO 1800 as anachor) > > > > > > This is mainly for testing, if I get CGOS up correctly, what to do to > > have > > > it permanently running still to be seen. > > > I am not able to test the connection from the outside, hopefully I set up > > > everything correctly. > > > I might stop the server for the tournament on sunday, as it is the same > > > machine > > > > > > future plan is: > > > 8081 for 9x9 8082 for 13x13 and 8084 for 25x25. > > > (you will see on the web interface, as soon as the other boardsizes are > > > switched on. > > > > > > > > > ___ > > > Computer-go mailing list > > > Computer-go@computer-go.org > > > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > > > > > > Folkert van Heusden > > > > -- > > MultiTail is een flexibele tool voor het volgen van logfiles en > > uitvoer van commando's. Filteren, van kleur voorzien, mergen, > > 'diff-view', etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ > > -- > > Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com > > ___ > > Computer-go mailing list > > Computer-go@computer-go.org > > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > ___ > Computer-go mailing list > Computer-go@computer-go.org > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go Folkert van Heusden -- Multitail - gibkaja utilita po sledovaniju log-fajlov i vyvoda kommand. Fil'trovanie, raskraivanie, slijanie, vizual'noe sravnenie, i t.d. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] CGOS
I'm running parishilton it now so that you have a baseline for the worst play. On Sat, May 02, 2015 at 07:21:05AM +0200, Detlef Schmicker wrote: > Hi, > > I set up a CGOS server at home. It is connected via dyndns, which is not > optimal of cause :( > > physik.selfhost.eu > > Ports: > 8080 (webinterface) > 8083 (19x19, GnuGo 3.8 set to ELO 1800 as anachor) > > This is mainly for testing, if I get CGOS up correctly, what to do to have > it permanently running still to be seen. > I am not able to test the connection from the outside, hopefully I set up > everything correctly. > I might stop the server for the tournament on sunday, as it is the same > machine > > future plan is: > 8081 for 9x9 8082 for 13x13 and 8084 for 25x25. > (you will see on the web interface, as soon as the other boardsizes are > switched on. > > > ___ > Computer-go mailing list > Computer-go@computer-go.org > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail is een flexibele tool voor het volgen van logfiles en uitvoer van commando's. Filteren, van kleur voorzien, mergen, 'diff-view', etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] running amigogtp using twogtp
I was a bit hessitant to use gogui (because java, always a hassle with classpaths etc) but it works really well - even on the command line! So I'm very happy now. On Mon, Apr 20, 2015 at 01:30:20PM +0200, Erik van der Werf wrote: > Just use GnuGo as referee. > > > I'm trying to run amigogtp using twogtp. This fails because it doesn't > > know final_score. > > Now I've read that it should be possible (with gogui-twogtp at least) > > to use a referree application. Is this true? Where can I find such a > > program (for linux)? > > Or is there an other way? > > I want to use amigogtp because its strength is not too far off compared > > to my own program (stop_0.9-2b: 627 and amigogtp-1.8: 811 on 13x13 > > cgos). > > myCtest-10k would be even better but there's no source of that > > available? Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail är ett flexibel redskap för att följa en eller flera logfiler, utföra kommandon, filtrera, färglägga, sammanfoga, o.s.v... -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] running amigogtp using twogtp
Hi, I'm trying to run amigogtp using twogtp. This fails because it doesn't know final_score. Now I've read that it should be possible (with gogui-twogtp at least) to use a referree application. Is this true? Where can I find such a program (for linux)? Or is there an other way? I want to use amigogtp because its strength is not too far off compared to my own program (stop_0.9-2b: 627 and amigogtp-1.8: 811 on 13x13 cgos). myCtest-10k would be even better but there's no source of that available? Folkert van Heusden -- ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] What's a good playout speed?
> > > I suspected you'd say something like this. ;) It is definitely on my list > > > of things to steal a few things from Michi. But maybe I'll start with > > > simpler and/or well defined things like RAVE or the hand picked MoGo 3x3 > > > patterns. That way it's easy to see if I really screwed something up. The > > > bot is still rather weak so adding some of those features should really > > > improve the strength. > > > > How many playouts (per move) does 'stop_0.9-2b??? do? > > 0 > > (none, zero, keine, geen) (to clarify: it is _not_ doing a monte carlo search) Folkert van Heusden -- www.vanheusden.com/multitail - win een vlaai van multivlaai! zorg ervoor dat multitail opgenomen wordt in Fedora Core, AIX, Solaris of HP/UX en win een vlaai naar keuze -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] What's a good playout speed?
> > I suspected you'd say something like this. ;) It is definitely on my list > > of things to steal a few things from Michi. But maybe I'll start with > > simpler and/or well defined things like RAVE or the hand picked MoGo 3x3 > > patterns. That way it's easy to see if I really screwed something up. The > > bot is still rather weak so adding some of those features should really > > improve the strength. > > How many playouts (per move) does 'stop_0.9-2b??? do? 0 (none, zero, keine, geen) Folkert van Heusden ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] CGOS future
> > BTW I am a Linux guy true and true since 1994. But I am DAMN tempted > > to write it in C#. > > I use mono on linux [1], and c# is an OK language for this kind of > thing. RestSharp is an interesting library for web service *clients*, > but of course you are writing a server. > > Lots of C++ programmers on this list, and C++11 is now quite a safe and > productive language. But socket support sucks. Asio is the best choice, I disagree with that. Why does it suck? For the web-part I would like to suggest libmicrohttpd by the way. > and it is not at all easy to use or debug; I feel I might just go for > low-level BSD sockets next time. At least then there is a huge body of > working code. > > If it was me, personally, I'd hack together a first version in PHP, > using mysql as a DB. You would not believe how many > "hacked-together-first-versions" in PHP are still running 5 or 10 years > later, because it is good enough. PHP? seriously? > But node.js might be a better choice. It handles multiple > connections/threads better than PHP, it has ready to go web server > modules and tons of example code, it is fashionable, and there are lots > of jobs for people who can show they've worked on a node.js > server/client project. > > > My goal is to move away from interpreted languages and release SOLID > > .exe or bin for unices. > > Are you talking about servers or clients there? For clients, PLEASE do not release binaries, release sources. No sane linux user installs random binaries. > Always go for a well-known interpreted language for a server-side > application, unless you are CPU or memory bound. (And if you are you, > you've done something very wrong: Facebook reached half a billion active > users running a PHP back-end; Wikipedia too...) true that > And using a clearly defined http web server protocol, probably built > around json, and then the clients will take care of themselves: all > modern languages, except C/C++, come with a good web client library, and > a good json library. Just hand out a helper C library, perhaps with a > C++ wrapper API. I agree! Folkert van Heusden -- Multitail est un outil permettant la visualisation de fichiers de journalisation et/ou le suivi de l'exécution de commandes. Filtrage, mise en couleur de mot-clé, fusions, visualisation de différences (diff-view), etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] CGOS future
Please write it in something common. If you target linux I think it is unusual to target .net. Why not just c++? Proven technology, simple to write in. On Thu, Apr 02, 2015 at 09:02:09PM -0400, Joshua Shriver wrote: > BTW I greatly appreciate all the input! and put in TODO.txt > > Since I do plan to make this open source and ON github. > > Guess I'm looking for "helper developers" > > I own like 12 servers so can host, while keeping the solid boardspace in tact. > > > In fact I just bought 2 more servers, 1 real 1 replication. > > Again I'm curios of language?? > > I'm top at C/Perl for "real contimplation" > > BTW I am a Linux guy true and true since 1994. But I am DAMN tempted > to write it in C#. Especially w/ MS OSS .Net framework. WE always had > mono but right now. That is where I am REALLY leaning. > > I don't even know C#, but good at JAVA despite my hatred for the language > lol. > > My goal is to move away from interpreted languages and release SOLID > .exe or bin for unices. > > Client viewer, client host for engine. > > > Seriously I am ok now, financially, and my hobby projects are mature. > I have time to REALLY drive in and make CGOS what it deserves. But > again it needs a pure re-write lol > > > BTW as the future maintainer, given any/all emails that come from this > thread. I ALSO appreciate emails from people recommending people. > > It's easy to get 20+ ppl saying OMG I want to help. But I need at > least 1-2 more core devs outside me, especially if I'm working in a > language outside my zone. > > So I also ask fellow devs to post comments on what language you think > would be good for now/future prospects. > > > -Josh > ___ > Computer-go mailing list > Computer-go@computer-go.org > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail är ett flexibel redskap för att följa en eller flera logfiler, utföra kommandon, filtrera, färglägga, sammanfoga, o.s.v... -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] April KGS bot tournament, 13x13
Hi Nick, Ah so that is possible! As I wrote in my previous e-mail that was not the case in ~2012. Can you persuede them to create a rated account for my program Stop? On cgos it has a rating of 618. On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 01:38:08PM +0100, Nick Wedd wrote: > Hi Urban, > > As a general guideline for how strong a bot must be to enter these events, > I say it should > only enter if it has a reasonable chance of beating GNU Go, which at KGS 7k > is weaker > than any of the regular players. If you have implemented kgsGtp, you could > run your bot > on KGS against human players to see how strong it is - if you want "rated > bot" status for > a stable version of it, I can encourage the admin who can assign this > status. > > Best wishes, > > Nick > > On 31 March 2015 at 13:00, Urban Hafner wrote: > > > Thank you for organising this for so many years, Nick! I think the email > > is a bit wrong though. > > > > Here's the link to the actual tournament: > > http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=955 > > > > It's also not 19x19, but (at least according to the KGS page) it's 13x13. > > :) > > > > Now on to my actual question: Are any of the other developers of new bots > > interested in joining? I JUST got around to implementing UCT and it would > > be rather boring to enter if I know with 100% certainty that I will loose > > all my games. > > > > Urban > > > > On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 12:29 PM, Nick Wedd wrote: > > > >> The April KGS bot tournament will be this Sunday, April 5th, starting at > >> 08:00 UTC and ending by 14:00 UTC. It will use 19x19 boards, with time > >> limits of 9 minutes each plus fast Canadian overtime, and komi of 7.5. > >> There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=95 > >> <http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=942>5 > >> > >> I apologise for the short notice. March seems to have passed unusually > >> fast. > >> > >> Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament > >> Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . > >> > >> -- > >> Nick Wedd mapr...@gmail.com > >> > >> ___ > >> Computer-go mailing list > >> Computer-go@computer-go.org > >> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Blog: http://bettong.net/ > > Twitter: https://twitter.com/ujh > > Homepage: http://www.urbanhafner.com/ > > > > ___ > > Computer-go mailing list > > Computer-go@computer-go.org > > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > > > > > > -- > Nick Wedd mapr...@gmail.com > ___ > Computer-go mailing list > Computer-go@computer-go.org > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go Folkert van Heusden -- Ever wonder what is out there? Any alien races? Then please support the seti@home project: setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] April KGS bot tournament, 13x13
I would like to as well but when I asked (somewhere in 2012 iirc) I was told that it should first become a bit better :-) On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 02:00:18PM +0200, Urban Hafner wrote: > Thank you for organising this for so many years, Nick! I think the email is > a bit wrong though. > > Here's the link to the actual tournament: > http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=955 > > It's also not 19x19, but (at least according to the KGS page) it's 13x13. :) > > Now on to my actual question: Are any of the other developers of new bots > interested in joining? I JUST got around to implementing UCT and it would > be rather boring to enter if I know with 100% certainty that I will loose > all my games. > > Urban > > On Tue, Mar 31, 2015 at 12:29 PM, Nick Wedd wrote: > > > The April KGS bot tournament will be this Sunday, April 5th, starting at > > 08:00 UTC and ending by 14:00 UTC. It will use 19x19 boards, with time > > limits of 9 minutes each plus fast Canadian overtime, and komi of 7.5. > > There are details at http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=95 > > <http://www.gokgs.com/tournInfo.jsp?id=942>5 > > > > I apologise for the short notice. March seems to have passed unusually > > fast. > > > > Please register by emailing me, with the words "KGS Tournament > > Registration" in the email title, at mapr...@gmail.com . > > > > -- > > Nick Wedd mapr...@gmail.com > > > > ___ > > Computer-go mailing list > > Computer-go@computer-go.org > > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > > > > > > -- > Blog: http://bettong.net/ > Twitter: https://twitter.com/ujh > Homepage: http://www.urbanhafner.com/ > ___ > Computer-go mailing list > Computer-go@computer-go.org > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go Folkert van Heusden -- To MultiTail einai ena polymorfiko ergaleio gia ta logfiles kai tin eksodo twn entolwn. Prosferei: filtrarisma, xrwmatismo, sygxwneysi, diaforetikes provoles. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] evaluating number of wins versus looses
Hi, When performing a montecarlo search, we end up with a number of wins and number of looses for a position on the board. What is now the proven methology for comparing these values? I tried the method described here: http://www.evanmiller.org/how-not-to-sort-by-average-rating.html ...which not only looks at how much more wins than looses there were for a position but also the total number for that position. So that a difference x with 10 playouts may be evaluated lower than a difference y with 11 playouts, even if x > y. This does not seem to give good results altough other factors may be in play here (my program is in it's infant stage). Folkert van Heusden -- Finally want to win in the MegaMillions lottery? www.smartwinning.info -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Learning from CGOS
> What elements did you like about CGOS and what do you wish for? > > I've begun writing a new version from scratch that isn't TCL based. > With the aim for future use and also open source and open to public > commits. A simple json interface that enables people to do automated checks for elo rating, latest match played and failures. Oh and indeed failures: currently it says "illegal move"; it would be great if it also could say what is illegal about the move. Maybe create a logfile accessible via the web-interface for that. Folkert van Heusden -- Always wondered what the latency of your webserver is? Or how much more latency you get when you go through a proxy server/tor? The numbers tell the tale and with HTTPing you know them! http://www.vanheusden.com/httping/ --- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] fast + good RNG
For profiling I use callgrind. Afaik it is the most accurate as it simulates a processor and counts cycles etc. As others pointed out: my playout-code is somewhat lightweight. In that 40% version it only checked if a cross is empty. I added super-ko check which gave a 10% hit on the number of pps. Currently I'm looking into doing full validity checks. It currently does +/- 20-30k pps with one core on a HT-sibling. > 40% sounds pretty high. Are you sure its not an artefact of your profiling > implementation? > > I prefer not to instrument, but to sample stack traces. You can do this using > gdb by pressing ctrl-c, then type bt. Do this 10 times, and look for the > parts of the stack that occur often. Folkert van Heusden -- Ever wonder what is out there? Any alien races? Then please support the seti@home project: setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] fast + good RNG
Ah! But how do you make sure the numbers are uniformly distributed? On Sun, Mar 29, 2015 at 05:58:56PM +0800, remco.bloe...@singularityu.org wrote: > I switched to SFMT [0]. But that was some years ago, there might be faster > options now. > > I also generated it in megabyte batches and consume it from there, generating > a new megabyte as needed. > > Lastly, I had some code to make sure I did not consume more bits of entropy > than required. Two uniform choices, one bit. Three choices: fractional > bits. > > [0] > > http://www.math.sci.hiroshima-u.ac.jp/~m-mat/MT/SFMT/ > > ??? Remco > > -Original Message- > From: folkert > To: computer-go@computer-go.org > Sent: Sun, 29 Mar 2015 17:50 > Subject: [Computer-go] fast + good RNG > > Hi, > > I measured that std::mt19937_64 (the mersenne twister from the standard > c++ libraries) uses about 40% cpu time during playouts. > > So I wonder: is there a faster prng while still generating good enough > random? > > > Folkert van Heusden > > -- > Nagios user? Check out CoffeeSaint - the versatile Nagios status > viewer! http://www.vanheusden.com/java/CoffeeSaint/ > -- > Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com > ___ > Computer-go mailing list > Computer-go@computer-go.org > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > _______ > Computer-go mailing list > Computer-go@computer-go.org > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail er et flexible tool for å kontrolere Logfiles og commandoer. Med filtrer, farger, sammenføringer, forskeliger ansikter etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] fast + good RNG
Hi, I measured that std::mt19937_64 (the mersenne twister from the standard c++ libraries) uses about 40% cpu time during playouts. So I wonder: is there a faster prng while still generating good enough random? Folkert van Heusden -- Nagios user? Check out CoffeeSaint - the versatile Nagios status viewer! http://www.vanheusden.com/java/CoffeeSaint/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] monte carlo search; all valid moves?
> > Because I read here that people can do 25k playouts per second while my > > program can only do ~ 20 per second when doing full validity checks on > > all steps. > Do you have a reference, some context for the 25K playouts? Look for the topic "What's a good playout speed?" in the mailinglist archives. http://computer-go.org/pipermail/computer-go/ Folkert van Heusden -- Curious about the inner workings of your car? Then check O2OO: it'll tell you all that there is to know about your car's engine! http://www.vanheusden.com/O2OO/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] monte carlo search; all valid moves?
Well you could check if a field is empty or not but you could also check if you're putting stones in a dead area or if it would be a suicide, etc. On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 10:15:32AM +0100, ?lvaro Begu? wrote: > I am not sure I understand the question. The only thing that is typically > not checked in the playouts is superko. What other "validity checks" are > you performing? > > Álvaro. > > > > On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 9:54 AM, holger krekel wrote: > > > On Sat, Mar 28, 2015 at 08:51 +0100, folkert wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > > > For a monte carlo search, are only valid moves performed? Or does it > > > work from beginning to the end of a playout using whatever free position > > > is available on the board? > > > > I am also interested in the question. > > > > > Because I read here that people can do 25k playouts per second while my > > > program can only do ~ 20 per second when doing full validity checks on > > > all steps. > > > > Do you have a reference, some context for the 25K playouts? > > > > holger > > > > > > > > > > Folkert van Heusden > > > > > > -- > > > -- > > > Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com > > > ___ > > > Computer-go mailing list > > > Computer-go@computer-go.org > > > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > > > > -- > > about me:http://holgerkrekel.net/about-me/ > > contracting: http://merlinux.eu > > _______ > > Computer-go mailing list > > Computer-go@computer-go.org > > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > > > ___ > Computer-go mailing list > Computer-go@computer-go.org > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail is a versatile tool for watching logfiles and output of commands. Filtering, coloring, merging, diff-view, etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] monte carlo search; all valid moves?
Hi, For a monte carlo search, are only valid moves performed? Or does it work from beginning to the end of a playout using whatever free position is available on the board? Because I read here that people can do 25k playouts per second while my program can only do ~ 20 per second when doing full validity checks on all steps. Folkert van Heusden -- -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] [ANN] Michi - 15x15 ~6k KGS in 540 lines of Python?code
> > Windows 7 on a I5 processor, and I'm quite sure multiprocesses is OK (I see > > 5 python processes running when michi is thinking). Maybe it's multicore > > usage not working properly. I will investigate that. > > I just realized - you mentioned that you are using Python to run it - if > you use PyPy instead, you should get about 3x speedup or more. Have you tried ShedSkin? It compiles python code to c++ code. http://code.google.com/p/shedskin/ Folkert van Heusden -- www.TrustedTimestamping.com is a service that enables you to show that at a certain point in time, you had access to a hash-value reflecting the contents of a file (this file can be a word document, a jpeg image, everything). -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] looking for tromp/taylor scoring testcases
Hi, It looks like I got the tromp/taylor scoring working in my program. I'm now looking for testcases. Sofar I only found the ones at http://codegolf.stackexchange.com/questions/6693/score-a-game-of-go Do I suck at googling and are there more? thanks in advance Folkert van Heusden -- -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Tromp Taylor rules http://senseis.xmp.net/?LogicalRules
Alvaro, Urban, thanks! I've got an additional question. It may be obvious but it is written a bit ambiguous imho on senseis.xmp.net: "A player's score is the number of points of her color, plus the number of empty points that reach only her color." So an empty point that can reach the border of the board doesn't count, right? On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 12:48:59PM +0100, Urban Hafner wrote: > As Alvaro said, you should just implement Tromp Taylor and if you want to > play on CGOS or KGS (chinese rules only) you just need to make suicide > illegal and you're good to go. > > Urban > > On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 12:44 PM, Álvaro Begué > wrote: > > > Ko is not missing: It is a particular case of the prohibition to repeat > > positions. Making suicide illegal is an easy patch. > > > > Álvaro. > > > > > > > > On Wed, Mar 11, 2015 at 7:08 AM, folkert wrote: > > > >> Hi, > >> > >> After 3 years of not working on my Go software, I decided to tinker > >> again a bit on it. > >> First thing I noticed is that it is very slow. I have a feeling that my > >> implementation of the rules is way too complex. I did it all from > >> scratch and as I never played a game of Go before, it may have a clumsy > >> design. > >> So I'm considering rewriting things. > >> I read back in the archives of this mailinglist and I read about the > >> Tromp/Taylor rules. If I implement those, will I really have a program > >> that plays valid Go and can participate in CGOS maybe even KGS one day? > >> Because things like KO and suicide etc are missing? > >> > >> > >> thanks > >> > >> Folkert van Heusden > >> > >> -- > >> You've probably gotten really fed up with never winning in the Mega- > >> Millions lottery. Well, weep no longer: www.smartwinning.info tells > >> you everything that might help you deciding what numbers to choose. > >> With nice graphs and pretty animations! > >> ___ > >> Computer-go mailing list > >> Computer-go@computer-go.org > >> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > > > > > > > > ___ > > Computer-go mailing list > > Computer-go@computer-go.org > > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > > > > > > -- > Blog: http://bettong.net/ > Twitter: https://twitter.com/ujh > Homepage: http://www.urbanhafner.com/ > ___ > Computer-go mailing list > Computer-go@computer-go.org > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go Folkert van Heusden -- www.vanheusden.com/multitail - win een vlaai van multivlaai! zorg ervoor dat multitail opgenomen wordt in Fedora Core, AIX, Solaris of HP/UX en win een vlaai naar keuze -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] Tromp Taylor rules http://senseis.xmp.net/?LogicalRules
Hi, After 3 years of not working on my Go software, I decided to tinker again a bit on it. First thing I noticed is that it is very slow. I have a feeling that my implementation of the rules is way too complex. I did it all from scratch and as I never played a game of Go before, it may have a clumsy design. So I'm considering rewriting things. I read back in the archives of this mailinglist and I read about the Tromp/Taylor rules. If I implement those, will I really have a program that plays valid Go and can participate in CGOS maybe even KGS one day? Because things like KO and suicide etc are missing? thanks Folkert van Heusden -- You've probably gotten really fed up with never winning in the Mega- Millions lottery. Well, weep no longer: www.smartwinning.info tells you everything that might help you deciding what numbers to choose. With nice graphs and pretty animations! ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Weak bots to run on CGOS
I have a small cluster of raspberry pi-s (7) that normally run a distributed chess engine. Since they're mostly idle, I can a couple of Go engines on them if you like. They're the 512MB rpi1 models. There's +/- 256MB of ram available on them. (it plays as `DBPPuppetMaster' on fics (freechess.org)) Folkert van Heusden -- You've probably gotten really fed up with never winning in the Mega- Millions lottery. Well, weep no longer: www.smartwinning.info tells you everything that might help you deciding what numbers to choose. With nice graphs and pretty animations! ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] Weak bots to run on CGOS
> I'm currently running Brown (random bot) and GnuGo on CGOS 13x13. Mainly to > get a feel for the strength of my own bot. And my bot is really bad. ;) So > bad that it looses all games against GnuGo, but wins all games against > Brown. So, the rating is a bit useless I assume as there are no bots that > are in strength between GnuGo and the random player. Are there any bots in > that range out there? I'd be willing to run them myself on CGOS. `Stop' is definately between brown and maybe a tiny bit better than that. http://www.vanheusden.com/stop/ I'll see if I can connecct it to the 13x13 server. Folkert van Heusden -- You've probably gotten really fed up with never winning in the Mega- Millions lottery. Well, weep no longer: www.smartwinning.info tells you everything that might help you deciding what numbers to choose. With nice graphs and pretty animations! ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] cgos.computergo.org down?
It is not working. After a connect the programs sit there, waiting forever. On Mon, Mar 02, 2015 at 09:55:33AM -0500, Joshua Shriver wrote: > It was migrated back to the original boardspace. Please try there. > cgos.boardspace.net > > -Josh > > On Sun, Mar 1, 2015 at 4:14 PM, folkert wrote: > > Hi, > > > > It looks like cgos.computergo.org is down? > > All bots fail to connect over here. > > > > > > Folkert van Heusden > > > > -- > > You've probably gotten really fed up with never winning in the Mega- > > Millions lottery. Well, weep no longer: www.smartwinning.info tells > > you everything that might help you deciding what numbers to choose. > > With nice graphs and pretty animations! > > ___ > > Computer-go mailing list > > Computer-go@computer-go.org > > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go > _______ > Computer-go mailing list > Computer-go@computer-go.org > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go Folkert van Heusden -- You've probably gotten really fed up with never winning in the Mega- Millions lottery. Well, weep no longer: www.smartwinning.info tells you everything that might help you deciding what numbers to choose. With nice graphs and pretty animations! ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
[Computer-go] cgos.computergo.org down?
Hi, It looks like cgos.computergo.org is down? All bots fail to connect over here. Folkert van Heusden -- You've probably gotten really fed up with never winning in the Mega- Millions lottery. Well, weep no longer: www.smartwinning.info tells you everything that might help you deciding what numbers to choose. With nice graphs and pretty animations! ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] CGOS back online
Hi, I've connected a couple of programs but nothing happens. They login and that's about it. On Wed, Jan 14, 2015 at 04:14:31AM -0500, Joshua Shriver wrote: > CGOS is back on boardspace.net and running. Please feel free to try > and connect like you use to and let me know. I'll be monitoring it. > It's just as it was when it was taken down after Mr. Daileys passing. > > I'm grateful for Dave Dyer for hosting it in the past, and for > keeping a clean copy of the system as Don originally wrote it. > > Originally I wanted to host it myself but the code is rather delicate > and I never could get it running properly. I'll still be maintaining > it and keep track of it's ups and downs but for all intent and > purposes it "just worked" back then so that's why I asked to use > boardspace again to get things rolling again. > > Thank you for your understanding, > -Josh > ___ > Computer-go mailing list > Computer-go@computer-go.org > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail är ett flexibel redskap för att följa en eller flera logfiler, utföra kommandon, filtrera, färglägga, sammanfoga, o.s.v... -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [Computer-go] alternative for cgos
Very cool!
What I would like:
- a networked protocol so that you can also run them from your own
computer
- with clients that talk the usual gtp protocol
- the program interfacing between the server and the client-engine in
something like c/c++/python and open source so that one can more
easily run it everywhere. also please not difficult to setup, eg no
oauth and other stuff requiring gui's (I usually run my chess/go
engines on systems that do not even have a video card)
- elo is my current preferred rating as I "know it" but I could "learn"
kyu/dan as well
- make a simple json emitting page that one can poll to collect
statistics, e.g. { "stop" : "1300" } where stop is the name of my
program and 1300 a not very realistic (it plays very bad) elo-rating
On Mon, Jan 12, 2015 at 05:34:44PM -0800, Chris LaRose wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I'm actually working on something similar at http://baduk.io. Right now,
> you can log in an play against a handful of bots over the web, but one day
> I'd love to make it so you can add your own bots to let them compete
> against the others. It's not quite ready for the public, but I'm working to
> get something small working quickly. Unlike CGOS, the bots are all
> hosted--they all run inside Docker (http://docker.io/) containers. The
> Dockerfiles I've written for a few public bots are available at my github
> repository https://github.com/baduk-io/ai-dockerfiles.
>
> What sorts of things would you expect from such a service? I was planning
> on modeling baduk.io after CGOS in a lot of ways as far as the rules that
> are used (area scoring, no dead stones removed, etc), and distinct ratings
> for 9x9, 13x13, and 19x19 boards. What sorts of improvements do you think
> could be made in a new service? Do you have a preference for ELO ratings
> over kyu/dan ratings?
>
> Chris LaRose
>
> On Fri, Jan 9, 2015 at 2:47 AM, folkert wrote:
>
> > Hi,
> >
> > I have the feeling that cgos won't come back in even the distant future
> > so I was wondering if there are any alternatives?
> > E.g. a server that constantly lets go engines play against each other
> > and then determines an elo rating for them.
> >
> >
> > Folkert van Heusden
> >
> > --
> > Afraid of irssi? Scared of bitchx? Does xchat gives you bad shivers?
> > In all these cases take a look at http://www.vanheusden.com/fi/ maybe
> > even try it or use it for all your day-to-day IRC conversations!
> > ---
> > Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com
> > ___
> > Computer-go mailing list
> > Computer-go@computer-go.org
> > http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
> ___
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> Computer-go@computer-go.org
> http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Folkert van Heusden
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[Computer-go] alternative for cgos
Hi, I have the feeling that cgos won't come back in even the distant future so I was wondering if there are any alternatives? E.g. a server that constantly lets go engines play against each other and then determines an elo rating for them. Folkert van Heusden -- Afraid of irssi? Scared of bitchx? Does xchat gives you bad shivers? In all these cases take a look at http://www.vanheusden.com/fi/ maybe even try it or use it for all your day-to-day IRC conversations! --- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ Computer-go mailing list Computer-go@computer-go.org http://computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go
Re: [computer-go] monte carlo
> > What method are you guys using for the monte carlo search? What do you > > do? > > I pick at random a move, then for the resulting board that comes out of > > that pick another move and so on. > > Then, after that I evaulate the number of stones etc. > > Do you mean you count the score? Make sure you actually count the stone > right, and (quite important) that you are picking out moves really at > random, not skewed in any way. Yes, the score indeed. Well, only the number of stones removed from the board. I did not implement an algorithm to count areas belonging to a color yet. > > What do you guys look at to select a move using monte carlo? > People use heuristics to prefer captures, escaping atari, play local > moves that match certain 3x3 patterns etc. - there is plenty of papers > covering this, I recommend you look at them. It's fairly important to > have all the heuristics somewhat randomized (depending on other parts of > my engine, I've found any value between 60% to 90% probability of > applying each heuristic optimal). Yeah, I rated most of them equally. Some are weighted in depending on applicability. May I ask: how many board-settings (one move + all evaluation) do your programs calculate per second? Folkert van Heusden -- Ever wonder what is out there? Any alien races? Then please support the s...@home project: setiathome.ssl.berkeley.edu -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] monte carlo
What method are you guys using for the monte carlo search? What do you do? I pick at random a move, then for the resulting board that comes out of that pick another move and so on. Then, after that I evaulate the number of stones etc. What do you guys look at to select a move using monte carlo? On Sat, Oct 17, 2009 at 05:02:33PM +0200, Folkert van Heusden wrote: > People, > > I'm trying to implement a monthecarlo algorithm in my go program. Now > the results are dramatic: the elo-rating of my go program drops from > 1150 to below 700. I tried: > - evaluate the number of captured stone > - evaluate strategic elements (without MC this strategic eval gives >that 1150 elo). > Currently my program can evaluate 500 scenes per second and I let it > "think" for 5 seconds. > What could be the cause of this dramatic results? Wrong evaluation? Not > enough nodes processed? Folkert van Heusden -- www.vanheusden.com/multitail - multitail is tail on steroids. multiple windows, filtering, coloring, anything you can think of -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
[computer-go] monte carlo
People, I'm trying to implement a monthecarlo algorithm in my go program. Now the results are dramatic: the elo-rating of my go program drops from 1150 to below 700. I tried: - evaluate the number of captured stone - evaluate strategic elements (without MC this strategic eval gives that 1150 elo). Currently my program can evaluate 500 scenes per second and I let it "think" for 5 seconds. What could be the cause of this dramatic results? Wrong evaluation? Not enough nodes processed? Folkert van Heusden -- To MultiTail einai ena polymorfiko ergaleio gia ta logfiles kai tin eksodo twn entolwn. Prosferei: filtrarisma, xrwmatismo, sygxwneysi, diaforetikes provoles. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] cgosview?
What's its url then? On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 08:17:06AM -0400, Jason House wrote: > *sigh* > > I made a wiki for CGOS as part of the sourceforge project. I should just > take it down since it never became the official home page. I don't even > think it has a link to it from the official home page! Even things like > download links are duplicated... > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Sep 29, 2009, at 8:09 AM, Petr Baudis wrote: > >> Hi! >> >> On Tue, Sep 29, 2009 at 01:45:40PM +0200, Lars Schäfers wrote: >>> I remeber a version where the call was just >>> >>> ./cgosview-linux-x86_32 cgos.boardspace.net 6819 >> >> Ahh, thanks, that works. I think the website should be fixed then. :-) >> >>Petr "Pasky" Baudis >> ___ >> computer-go mailing list >> computer-go@computer-go.org >> http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ > _______ > computer-go mailing list > computer-go@computer-go.org > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail na wan makriki wrokosani fu tan luku den logfile nanga san den commando spiti puru. Piki puru spesrutu sani, wroko nanga difrenti kroru, tya kon makandra, nanga wan lo moro. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
[computer-go] webbased version of my go program
Hi, For those who like to test the latest version of my Go program (current rating around 1100 elo points on cgos), it is now also webbased available: http://vanheusden.com/stop/applet.php Folkert van Heusden -- -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Orego 6.09 posted
Great! Will you let it play on cgos? On Fri, Sep 18, 2009 at 10:57:12AM -0700, Peter Drake wrote: > By far the strongest, cleanest code yet. If you're looking to get > started in computer Go and prefer to work in Java, this is the code for > you! > > See command-line-options.txt in the doc directory. > > http://legacy.lclark.edu/~drake/Orego.html > > Enjoy! > > Peter Drake > http://www.lclark.edu/~drake/ > > > > ___ > computer-go mailing list > computer-go@computer-go.org > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ Folkert van Heusden -- Temperature outside:Not Found The requested URL /temp.php was not found on this server. __ Apache/2.2.11 (Debian) DAV/2 mod_jk/1.2.28 PHP/5.2.9-4 withSuhosin-Patch mod_python/3.3.1 Python/2.5.4 mod_ssl/2.2.11OpenSSL/0.9.8k mod_perl/2.0.4 Perl/v5.10.0 Server at 192.168.64.1Port 80, temperature livingroom: -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] IGS?
> I watched a game of your bot, and it still fills its own eyes, killing Which version did you check? Stop-test2 is the most recent one. It has checks for preventing placing stones in an eye. > alive groups. I suggest you strictly forbid eye-filling moves until the > bot is much stronger (I think it is needed in very few cases to kill > groups). Also it plays many, many bad self-atari moves into the tiger > mouth shape. If you evaluate positions and give them a score, these moves > should receive a worse score. ok, thanks for evaluating this tuesday i'm going to bring a visit to the local Go-club to get them to teach me how to really play Go, beyond placing stones on the board following the most basic rules. > Do you have an account on KGS? (Human, not bot :) > That said, I think you have enough testing opportunities on KGS and > CGOS. It's probably not worth the hassle if IGS doesn't support normal > GTP for bots. :p ok Folkert van Heusden -- www.biglumber.com <- site where one can exchange PGP key signatures -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
[computer-go] IGS?
Hi, Does anyone know how to interface your go program to IGS? It is already on KGS and CGOS but would like to have it play on IGS as well. Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail ist eine flexible Applikation um Logfiles und Kommando Eingaben zu überprüfen. Inkl. Filter, Farben, Zusammenführen, Ansichten etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] Dynamic komi at high handicaps
> My suggestion is to modify a program such as fuego to follow one of the > algorithms as suggested - then test it with a large sample of games. If How? At CGOS? Because i noticed that twogtp.pl says eg constantly that stop-0.4 wins of 0.5 while at cgos I see the opposite. Folkert van Heusden -- Feeling generous? -> http://www.vanheusden.com/wishlist.php -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
[computer-go] when
test Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail is een flexibele tool voor het volgen van logfiles en uitvoer van commando's. Filteren, van kleur voorzien, mergen, 'diff-view', etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] new kid on the block
> > Yes, known problem :-( I'm still trying to find a method to see if a > > point is in an eye. Should not be too difficult in theory but in > > practice i have not found a method yet. > > Are you talking about 1 point eyes? For this I think most programs use > the same definition, which is quite good and safe. As far as I know there > is no perfect rule but this is close to perfect. I added an evaluation routine that gives points for [number of my stones around me] - [number of opponent stones around me] and then give poioints for that, but that caused a significant drop in elo on cgos (see 00:00 at 13/8 at http://keetweej.vanheusden.com/stats/stop-all-elo-cgos.png ) Maybe I should change the evaluation to [number of my stones] + [number of empty crosses around me] - [opponent stones around me] Don; are you the maintainer of the CGOS server? Tried getting it to work on my system at home but it seems the current TCLKit is not compatible with it. Am trying to run it at home as well so that I can quickly do a testrun to see if a change has a negative or positive effect. > The definition of an eye we use is this: > An empty point whose direct neighbors are all of the same color AND whose > diagonal neighbors contain no more than 1 stone of the opposite color. > This definition must be modified slightly if the point in question is on the > edge of the board - in which case there must be NO diagonal enemy stones. > To know if a point is inside a bigger eye - that's much more speculative I > think. Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail is a versatile tool for watching logfiles and output of commands. Filtering, coloring, merging, diff-view, etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] new kid on the block
> Congrats for breaking the 1000 elo mark on cgos. ;) Thanks! Version 0.5 made quiet a difference compared to version 0.4. I'm graphing the elo ratings of the versions running at cgos here: http://keetweej.vanheusden.com/stats/stop-all-elo-cgos.png > Some things I noticed when watching 2 games: > -stop plays on the first line/corner in the beginning. maybe this helps: > http://computer-go.org/pipermail/computer-go/2008-December/017340.html > or this: > http://computer-go.org/pipermail/computer-go/2008-December/017457.html Ok, will read that. > -stop fills its own eyes, killing alive groups. you should prevent moves > that fill own eyes. look here: > http://computer-go.org/pipermail/computer-go/2008-May/014929.html Yes, known problem :-( I'm still trying to find a method to see if a point is in an eye. Should not be too difficult in theory but in practice i have not found a method yet. After a side puts a stone on a cross, I collect all stones and put those in seperate arrays; each chain in a seperate array. Now what I should do is finding out if such a chain makes a circle and then with a simple is-a-point-in-a-polygon-algorithm check if the point is in an eye. Still failing on that. Any tips are welcome! Folkert van Heusden -- Multi tail barnamaj mowahib li mora9abat attasjilat wa nataij awamir al 7asoub. damj, talwin, mora9abat attarchi7 wa ila akhirih. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
[computer-go] place_free_handicap/set_free_handicap
Hi, I might've asked this already but I kind of forgot it: place/set_free_handicap set the locations for black stones, right? stop is now playing as stop-0.5 on gcos and stopgo on kgs Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail ist eine flexible Applikation um Logfiles und Kommando Eingaben zu überprüfen. Inkl. Filter, Farben, Zusammenführen, Ansichten etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: Superko vs transposition table (was Re: [computer-go] Double/Triple Ko situation)
>> What is superko? >> My program keeps a list of all board-positions and then if it whants to >> do a move it checks if the new board-position is in the list. If so, it >> throws that move away. Are there other checks I need to do as well? > > Superko involves repeating a previous board position. Various forms of > this are forbidden by various rulesets, see > http://www.britgo.org/rules/compare.html#threeKK > What you are doing ensures that your program will never violate any form > of the rule. Not this one, does it? "Restatement of the ko rule. One may not capture just one stone, if that stone was played on the previous move, and that move also captured just one stone." (from wikipedia) Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail is a versatile tool for watching logfiles and output of commands. Filtering, coloring, merging, diff-view, etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: Superko vs transposition table (was Re: [computer-go] Double/Triple Ko situation)
>> What is superko? >> My program keeps a list of all board-positions and then if it whants to >> do a move it checks if the new board-position is in the list. If so, it >> throws that move away. Are there other checks I need to do as well? > > Superko involves repeating a previous board position. Various forms of > this are forbidden by various rulesets, see > http://www.britgo.org/rules/compare.html#threeKK > What you are doing ensures that your program will never violate any form > of the rule. Ah ok! Odd is though that CGOS complains about Illegal KO attempted. Folkert van Heusden -- Multitail es una herramienta flexible que permite visualizar los "log file" y seguir la ejecución de comandos. Permite filtrar, añadir colores, combinar archivos, la visualización de diferencias (diff- view), etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: Superko vs transposition table (was Re: [computer-go] Double/Triple Ko situation)
> I fixed allowing multiple suicide in playouts, but it didn't make the > many wasted playouts go away on Sheppard's position. > On further investivation, the problem has to do with the interaction > between superko and the transposition table. > Currently, Orego checks only simple ko most of the time. Superko is only > checked at the top level, before playing a "real" move (as opposed to a > move in a playout). This means that, within the transposition table, > superko can lead to an actual cycle. Orego does have a max number of > moves per playout, so it doesn't crash, but it does throw away such > playouts. What is superko? My program keeps a list of all board-positions and then if it whants to do a move it checks if the new board-position is in the list. If so, it throws that move away. Are there other checks I need to do as well? Folkert van Heusden -- Feeling generous? -> http://www.vanheusden.com/wishlist.php -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] matching 2 engines with sanity checks
Yes, that's it. Checks if an engine does an illegal ko, puts a piece where already is a piece, etc. On Tue, Aug 04, 2009 at 04:15:18PM -0400, Joshua Shriver wrote: > What do you mean by sanity checks? Such as legal moves? > > I wrote a chess engine vs engine app, could gut and reuse it for go and > possible add legal move checking to it. > > -Josh > > On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 4:39 AM, Folkert van Heusden > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > CGOS does sanity checks on the moves played by the engines that are > > matched. Problem is that it might take a few hours before bugs get > > triggered (due to scheduling of matches). > > GoGui can let an engine play against itself and then does also does > > sanity-checks but it is possible that certain bugs in an engine won't > > get triggered. > > So I was wondering: are there any other tools available for matching > > engines WITH validity-checks? > > > > > > Folkert van Heusden > > > > -- > > MultiTail è uno flexible tool per seguire di logfiles e effettuazione > > di commissioni. Feltrare, provedere da colore, merge, 'diff-view', > > etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ > > -- > > Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com > > ___ > > computer-go mailing list > > computer-go@computer-go.org > > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ > > > ___ > computer-go mailing list > computer-go@computer-go.org > http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/ Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail cok yonlu kullanimli bir program, loglari okumak, verilen kommandolari yerine getirebilen. Filter, renk verme, merge, 'diff- view', vs. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
[computer-go] matching 2 engines with sanity checks
Hi, CGOS does sanity checks on the moves played by the engines that are matched. Problem is that it might take a few hours before bugs get triggered (due to scheduling of matches). GoGui can let an engine play against itself and then does also does sanity-checks but it is possible that certain bugs in an engine won't get triggered. So I was wondering: are there any other tools available for matching engines WITH validity-checks? Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail è uno flexible tool per seguire di logfiles e effettuazione di commissioni. Feltrare, provedere da colore, merge, 'diff-view', etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
[computer-go] processor power available
If you people like, I can run other Go engines on my pc here as well on GCOS? Because I saw that for example Brown is not playing over there. Folkert van Heusden -- -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] new kid on the block
> I think the problem is yours, there is no known problem anything like this > in Ggogui and I have been using it for a long time. > Is your notation correct? In Go there is no 'i' file, we go from h to j > skipping i.You may already know that of course if you are a go player Unfortunately I'm a total newbie/beginner for Go, I started reading it last sunday. So I might hit on some more issues. > but it still leads to bugs if you don't code it correctly. Ah darn, I didn't know that and it seems I missed that in the documentation of the protocol. This explains why for example a 5x5 board always ran fine. [somewhat later] Yes now it fully works! Thanks for the help! Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail è uno flexible tool per seguire di logfiles e effettuazione di commissioni. Feltrare, provedere da colore, merge, 'diff-view', etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
Re: [computer-go] new kid on the block
> Welcome. :) thanks! > Consider implementing GTP so that your program can be used with nice > GUIs such as GoGui. Got problems using GoGui: after a few moves (mostly after around 30 moves) GoGui says "Stop played on a non-empty point". But I verified both in the logging of my program (which is called 'Stop') and in the logging of GoGui itself (Tools -> Save Log) that no moves are repeated. Using GoGui 1.1.10. Can it be a known problem? Folkert van Heusden -- -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
[computer-go] new kid on the block
I started yesterday to create a new Go program. It is called 'Stop' and is written in Java. The .jar-file can be found on my website: http://www.vanheusden.com/stop/ It is console-only (i.e. text-only) and can be invoked like this: java -jar stop-0.2.jar It is still very much in the beginning of development so some bugs may still exist. All feedback is welcome! Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail cok yonlu kullanimli bir program, loglari okumak, verilen kommandolari yerine getirebilen. Filter, renk verme, merge, 'diff- view', vs. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
[computer-go] libraries
Hi, Are there any libraries in c/c++/java for development of a go-brain? I imagine that things like finding connected areas has been implemented a million times? Folkert van Heusden -- MultiTail is a versatile tool for watching logfiles and output of commands. Filtering, coloring, merging, diff-view, etc. http://www.vanheusden.com/multitail/ -- Phone: +31-6-41278122, PGP-key: 1F28D8AE, www.vanheusden.com ___ computer-go mailing list computer-go@computer-go.org http://www.computer-go.org/mailman/listinfo/computer-go/
