Re: [Cooker] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION

[Harry Henry Gebel]

On Fri, May 26, 2000 at 10:59:37PM -0700, Randy Welch wrote:
> I'm kind of surprised that V.90 users would download a whole linux
> distribution these days anyway.  I tried that once.   Before DSL I would
> download the distro image at work toss it on a jaz disk ( or burn a CD
> at work )  and then install it at home.

I am downloading Cooker using a connection that tops out at 26.6, I have no
choice since the are no higher speed connections available in this area,
and I do not know anyone who lives or works anywhere where higher speed
connections are available (actually I know some people who work in Dover,
but none of them are employed by companies that have high speed connections
or CD burners for that matter) This is why I want to download individual
RPMs instead of ISOs, they allow me to skip large RPMs that I have no need
for such as theme sets and locale related files, saving me considerable
amounts of download time.

-- 
Harry Henry Gebel, Senior Developer, Landon House SBS
West Dover Hundred, Delaware

[Cooker] Beta3 install issues

[Vincent Danen]

Ok, I took the plunge and tried to upgrade my main (non-server devel
machine) Mandrake 7.0 machine to 7.1.  The upgrade system still has a long
way to go... it was 4x as long as an install!  Anyways, here are a few
install issues with the upgrade:

When you upgrade the Crypto stuff, I get this error:

An error occured Net::FTP: Bad peer address... propogated.

This happens regardless of what server I pick.  Next, when I select grub
for the bootloader (I assume this would happen with just LILO too) I get
this:

Installation of LILO failed.  The following error occurred:
Syntax error near line 8 in file /etc/lilo.conf

FYI, this is what it picked up to add:

failsafe (/boot/vmlinuz)
floppy (/dev/fd0)
linux (/boot/vmlinuz) *
linux-beta (/mnt/stuff2/boot/vmlinuz)
old1_windows (/dev/hda2)
old_linux (/boot/vmlinuz-2.2.14-15mdk)
windows (/dev/hda2)

After I removed floppy and linux-beta it worked.  Obviously /mnt/stuff2
didn't exist (this is where I had originally installed 7.1beta), so it
should be smart enough to realize this and not add it.  Also, I have only
an LS-120 on this machine, so why make a floppy entry for /dev/fd0?  Can't
we tell the difference yet?  There's nothing on /dev/fd0, so why include
it?

When I went to try XFree 4.0, the test worked good, but it hung on the
exit of the test (back to installer).  I couldn't switch to anything and
only the three-finger-salute fixed it (but then it made a mess of the
install).  So I went and installed it from scratch, which was ok, and put
reiserfs on the / partition.  So far so good.

Only issue now is that it didn't install joe even though I told it
too.  When I went to check, RPM told me that joe wasn't an RPM package, so
there must be an error with it somewhere (incomplete file?).  I downloaded
the same package from cooker and it installed fine.  Now, I don't know if
this problem is there for other packages, but joe was corrupt on the beta3
ISO.

Also, as a side note, the Crypto install worked on the install, but not on
the Upgrade.

I'll most likely have more reports since I am now going to be using beta3
live.

-- 
[EMAIL PROTECTED], OpenPGP key available on www.keyserver.net
Freezer Burn BBS:  telnet://bbs.freezer-burn.org . ICQ: 54924721
Webmaster for the Linux Portal Site Freezer Burn:  http://www.freezer-burn.org

Re: [Cooker] [discuss] Default config suggestion

[Randy Welch]

Hoyt wrote:
> 
> Make "Transparent Text for Desktop Icons" the default in KDE. It look
> prettier.
> 

Seconded...

If one wants to add a few more defaults, I'd like title animation turned
off and focus set to classic sloppy focus.

-randy

Re: [Cooker] Gnome 1.2 & gcombust

[Randy Welch]

Matias Griese wrote:
> 
> I would like to see Gnome 1.2 and gcombust in the upcoming version
> of Mandrake.
> 

gcombust *is* in the 7.1 beta 3, but you have to either have to go
through manual package selection or add it after install.

I'd much rather see gcombust installed by default than gtoaster.  I
can't figure out how to build a cd with gtoaster.  kisocd isn't bad,
though my favorite X windows burning program is a Tcl/TK script called
cdrtoaster, covers about everything I'd want to do in burning a cd.  Not
the prettiest interface but it works.

-randy

Re: [Cooker] app-defaults for XEmacs?

[Randy Welch]

Guillaume Cottenceau wrote:

> In 7.0, the default background for Emacs was white, it was unreadable. Now
> it's hopefully better. For XEmacs, well, I don't know exactly how much
> work has been done since the 7.0 on color scheme..
> 
I like black on white.
 
Certainly beats the Gold on green IMHO...

-randy

Re: [Cooker] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION

[Randy Welch]

Ron Stodden wrote:

> 
> I cannot see any way of avoiding the initial download of that much
> data, other than mailing out CDs, but for V90 access it is a killer
> (gone from 50 hours to 77 hours, all going perfectly).I thing
> most V90 beta testers will have little option but to walk away.
> 
I'm kind of surprised that V.90 users would download a whole linux
distribution these days anyway.  I tried that once.   Before DSL I would
download the distro image at work toss it on a jaz disk ( or burn a CD
at work )  and then install it at home.

> Distribution by iso images is NOT practical yet for people without CD
> burners or inadequate disk space.  So you will lose another major
> group of beta testers, unless the ability to install directly from
> the two iso images (does not yet exist) is made available.

I actually think that you find the beta testers are those with spare
disk space.  And one can get other testers by being nice to co workers
and friends and burning CD's if one is so equipped ( I did that today
for a co worker who I've raved about Mandrake about.)

> 
> That aside, a concerted effort should be made to devise an efficient
> beta update distribution process.  I strongly recomment rsync, since
> it will make updates within files (such as iso images) practical,
> using an absolute minimum of server and client bandwidth.  This makes
> keeping up to date quite practical for the V90-equipped beta
> testers.   However, there are three requirements on Mandrake:
> 

I agree here.  Though perhaps in the beta test distributions one could
use Mandrake Update that gets the changes from the cooker distribution
sites.

-randy

Re: [Cooker] Suugestion for new utility

[Werner Trobin]

Hoyt wrote:
> 
> - Original Message -
> From: "John Cavan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 5:20 PM
> Subject: Re: [Cooker] Suugestion for new utility
> 
> > The program you are looking for is called "tee".
> >
> 
> Maybe-  how would I use "tee" to run "startx" and save the error messages to
> a text file?

startx 2>&1 | tee foo.log

> 
> Hoyt

-- 
Werner Trobin - [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: crypto stuff on 2nd cd ; was: [Cooker] GET READY FORADISCUSSION- Include the contents ofthe mandrakeusr.org sit onthesecond CD

[Randy Welch]

Gael Duval wrote:

> 
> By the way, what is all your opinion about xv? do you use it often?
> what do you use for fast-viewing pictures? (I don't mean processing it
> with Gimp for example)

A program called qiv.  It's light, fast and does the job quite nicely. 
I've long since quit running xv.  Include it in the distro and I won't
have anything to compile after doing an install! ;-)


If I want to monkey around with a picture I'll let ee do it or bring out
the big guns with gimp.

-randy

Re: [Cooker] Suugestion for new utility

[Hoyt]

- Original Message -
From: "John Cavan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 5:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Cooker] Suugestion for new utility


> The program you are looking for is called "tee".
>

Maybe-  how would I use "tee" to run "startx" and save the error messages to
a text file?

Hoyt

[Cooker] xmms kills X on Beta 3

[Allen Bolderoff]

if I start xmms, it kills my XF 4.0 session
-- 
+++
Allen Bolderoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
LNC -  Linux, help and commentary http://linux.netnerve.com
CTPC - Caffeine - get it here: http://www.coffee-tea-pots-cups.com/
+++
GPG fingerprint = CBB0 8626 702C 3D01 B5AD  A54A DC2C 93B7 3E4B 6472
+++

[Cooker] Suggestion: More Monitoring software

[Allen Bolderoff]

Ie,

trafshow - I always have that on my boxen

netcat


things that give realtime stats for what is going on on a network.
-- 
+++
Allen Bolderoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
LNC -  Linux, help and commentary http://linux.netnerve.com
CTPC - Caffeine - get it here: http://www.coffee-tea-pots-cups.com/
+++
GPG fingerprint = CBB0 8626 702C 3D01 B5AD  A54A DC2C 93B7 3E4B 6472
+++

Re: [Cooker] Re: GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION

[Harry Henry Gebel]

On Fri, May 26, 2000 at 10:56:30AM -0400, Trelfa, Jonathon wrote:
> What I hate:  There is no "common" copy,cut and paste commands.  For
> example:  I want to copy a URL from a text file in kedit and paste it into
> netscape...doesn't work.  I want to cut some text from an email in kmail and
> paste it into PAN to post in a newsgroup...doesn't work.  Is there a way to

Using the "automatic copy by selecting text, paste with middle mouse
button"  (I don't know it's official name) feature works for me in 99% of
cases. To get the Copy and Paste commands from the Edit menu to work would
require that every program agree on the clipboard protocol to use (a similar
problem exists with drag and drop, but is getting less.)

-- 
Harry Henry Gebel, Senior Developer, Landon House SBS
West Dover Hundred, Delaware

Re: crypto stuff on 2nd cd ; was: [Cooker] GET READY FORADISCUSSION- Include the contents ofthe mandrakeusr.org sit onthesecond CD

[John Grange]

Gael Duval wrote:

> Daniel Hammer a écrit :
> >
> > BS''D
> >
> > Guillaume Cottenceau wrote:
> > > For the moment our politics are to limit as much as possible the amount of
> > > non open-source stuff on main installation CD [which is, now, CD
> > > Installation and CD Extension]
> >
> > ... which is a very good decision
>
> ...and as soon as we have good replacements for proprietary, we can
> have a 100% true-open source system! I've promised it to RMS and you
> know him: he won't forget such a thing ;)
>
> By the way, what is all your opinion about xv? do you use it often?
> what do you use for fast-viewing pictures? (I don't mean processing it
> with Gimp for example)
>
> Gael.
> --
> < Gael DUVAL http://www.mandrake.com >

I don't find ee, or eog , or any of the other programs that match the features of
xv yet.

I think that it should stay, and leave it up to us weither we use it or not.

-DarkWlf

Re: crypto stuff on 2nd cd ; was: [Cooker] GET READY FORADISCUSSION- Include the contents ofthe mandrakeusr.org sit on thesecondCD

[John Grange]

Allen Bolderoff wrote:

> [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
> > By the way, what is all your opinion about xv? do you use it often?
> > what do you use for fast-viewing pictures? (I don't mean processing it
> > with Gimp for example)
>
> I use ee for fast viewing pictures
>
> I use gqview to see thumbnail catalog style
>
> I have not used xv since redhat 4.2 or thereabouts.
>
> --
> +++
> Allen Bolderoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> LNC -  Linux, help and commentary http://linux.netnerve.com
> CTPC - Caffeine - get it here: http://www.coffee-tea-pots-cups.com/
> +++
> GPG fingerprint = CBB0 8626 702C 3D01 B5AD  A54A DC2C 93B7 3E4B 6472
> +++

I use XV alot on this system, i would rather that it stayed. i perfer it for
the slideshow features

Re: [Cooker] Discussion : better stabilit

[Gael Duval]

diablero wrote:
> 
> Can you add better stability ?
> Netscape often crash and get my box down.

we can't do much for this - wait for Mozilla & Konqueror.

> This bash line crash also my box (under a normal account):
> :(){ :|:&};
> :

ugh - quite efficient!

G.

--
< Gael DUVAL http://www.mandrake.com >

[Cooker] Re: crypto stuff on 2nd cd

[Harry Henry Gebel]

On Sat, May 27, 2000 at 12:54:30AM +0200, Gael Duval wrote:
> By the way, what is all your opinion about xv? do you use it often?
> what do you use for fast-viewing pictures? (I don't mean processing it
> with Gimp for example)

I have not used xv for a long time. I find gqview excellent for going
through large groups of pictures, and ee and kview are both nice for
viewing one at a time.

-- 
Harry Henry Gebel, Senior Developer, Landon House SBS
West Dover Hundred, Delaware

[Cooker] Next Distro Discussion-How about a features survey?

[Marc Sitkin]

It might be useful to seed the process of finding out what people want
by putting together a survey form. Put all of the features you think
people might want on it, and let them assign a weight to each. Also
allow net features to be added to the list, to seed new ideas.

It would also be helpful to set up discussion groups specific to each
feature to allow discourse among the community members interested in
that particular feature. The appropriate software developers could more
easily monitor a specific discussion than a general one . The mail list
format only goes so far, and has several drawbacks. Past threads can be
hard to get to among all the new postings, and the free-for -all aspect
of mingling topics makes it hard to focus on interesting information.

Take a look at www.photo.net for a look at how useful discussion groups
can be.

Now, for my personal opinion of mandrake: (like I'm sure your dying to
hear it : -) )

Of the distro's I've installed and tested, Mandrake is the best in
several respects.
It has the best install, good looking desktops, and a nice variety of
app' s and utilities.

It does fall short on quality control issues. Too many bugs that never
get fixed. Also, too little info in the form of FAQ's is available to an
interested user.

Stability issues sent me to explore Linux, and stability is still an
important issue to me.
I think more time should be spent fixing bugs than stuffing more
half-implimented apps into a distro. I also think that developers should
spend some time testing their product for usability  before moving on to
other projects. A little polish would go a long way in winning over the
public to Linux.

You guys are doing a great job overall, but you need to take some
vacation time!
There is much more to life than computers and computing. All artists
need to spend some time getting life experience if they are to become
masters.

Regards,

Marc Sitkin

Re: crypto stuff on 2nd cd ; was: [Cooker] GET READY FOR ADISCUSSION- Include the contents ofthe mandrakeusr.org sit on thesecond CD

[cteg]

On Sat, May 27, 2000 at 09:03:16AM +0930, Allen Bolderoff wrote:
> 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
> > By the way, what is all your opinion about xv? do you use it often?
> > what do you use for fast-viewing pictures? (I don't mean processing it
> > with Gimp for example)
> 
> I use ee for fast viewing pictures
> 
> I use gqview to see thumbnail catalog style
> 
> I have not used xv since redhat 4.2 or thereabouts.

there's another nice one for quick viewing pics:
called "feh", using imlib2.
cli interface. very fast.
feh should be listed on freshmeat. imlib2 is available via
cvs, enlightenment.org

:wq
-cteg

-- 
damn i'm looking good

Re: crypto stuff on 2nd cd ; was: [Cooker] GET READY FOR ADISCUSSION- Include the contents ofthe mandrakeusr.org sit on thesecond CD

[diablero]

On Sat, May 27, 2000 at 12:54:30AM +0200, Gael Duval wrote:
> Daniel Hammer a écrit :
> By the way, what is all your opinion about xv? do you use it often?
> what do you use for fast-viewing pictures? (I don't mean processing it
> with Gimp for example)

I use feh with imlib2
 
>   Gael.
> --
> < Gael DUVAL http://www.mandrake.com >
> 

-- 
Thomas Poindessous
EpX asso GNU/Linux de l'Epita
[EMAIL PROTECTED] && http://www.epita.fr/~epx

Re: crypto stuff on 2nd cd ; was: [Cooker] GET READY FOR ADISCUSSION- Include the contents ofthe mandrakeusr.org sit on thesecond CD

[Allen Bolderoff]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
> By the way, what is all your opinion about xv? do you use it often?
> what do you use for fast-viewing pictures? (I don't mean processing it
> with Gimp for example)

I use ee for fast viewing pictures

I use gqview to see thumbnail catalog style

I have not used xv since redhat 4.2 or thereabouts.




-- 
+++
Allen Bolderoff <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
LNC -  Linux, help and commentary http://linux.netnerve.com
CTPC - Caffeine - get it here: http://www.coffee-tea-pots-cups.com/
+++
GPG fingerprint = CBB0 8626 702C 3D01 B5AD  A54A DC2C 93B7 3E4B 6472
+++

Re: crypto stuff on 2nd cd ; was: [Cooker] GET READY FOR ADISCUSSION- Include the contents ofthe mandrakeusr.org sit on thesecond CD

[Gael Duval]

Daniel Hammer a écrit :
> 
> BS''D
> 
> Guillaume Cottenceau wrote:
> > For the moment our politics are to limit as much as possible the amount of
> > non open-source stuff on main installation CD [which is, now, CD
> > Installation and CD Extension]
> 
> ... which is a very good decision

...and as soon as we have good replacements for proprietary, we can
have a 100% true-open source system! I've promised it to RMS and you
know him: he won't forget such a thing ;) 

By the way, what is all your opinion about xv? do you use it often?
what do you use for fast-viewing pictures? (I don't mean processing it
with Gimp for example)

Gael.
--
< Gael DUVAL http://www.mandrake.com >

[Cooker] Discussion : better stabilit

[diablero]

Can you add better stability ?
Netscape often crash and get my box down.
This bash line crash also my box (under a normal account):
:(){ :|:&};
:


-- 
Thomas Poindessous
EpX asso GNU/Linux de l'Epita
[EMAIL PROTECTED] && http://www.epita.fr/~epx

Re: [Cooker] [discuss] Windows binaries in Mandrake

[diablero]

On Fri, May 26, 2000 at 11:46:56AM -0400, Hoyt wrote:
> Graham Percival schrieb:
> >I am absolutely _AGAINST_ the idea shipping an ext2fs browser with "our" 
> >distro!!! You have a security concept in UNIX/Linux that not everybody has 
> >the right/possibility to see and modify files.
> 
> >NOONE has an interrested in introducing workarounds, except some stupid 
> >win$uck users or some viruses. Why should we deliver those groups (which I 
> >considder of same danger-level) the tools needet for their destructive 
> >tasks 
> 
> You certainly make eloquent points, but GNU/Linux is all about choice,
> and Mandrake is all about producing a first rate distro and growing its
> market share. 

I don't see the need of a explore2fs, if you want to rescue your system you
only need the install CD.

> Hoyt
> 

-- 
Thomas Poindessous
EpX asso GNU/Linux de l'Epita
[EMAIL PROTECTED] && http://www.epita.fr/~epx

Re: [Cooker] Suugestion for new utility

[John Cavan]

The program you are looking for is called "tee".

Hoyt wrote:
> 
> There is a way to start a program that redirects the error messages to a
> text file. I' ve used it several times to debug X, but I always have to look
> it up. Couldn't it be put into a shell script called, for example, errlog,
> and then given the program name as the argument and have the text file
> written to /tmp as programnane.errlog ?
> 
> A small utility such as this would go a long way toward aiding newbies in
> diagnosing problems.
> 
> Hoyt

-- 
*

Tell me and I may forget,
Show me and I may remember,
Involve me and I will understand.

*

Re: [Cooker] A few urpmi-based improvements - APT

[diablero]

On Fri, May 26, 2000 at 06:40:09PM +0200, Stephane Gourichon wrote:

We need apt-get from Debian (update, upgrade) + the power of urpmi and regexp.

> --
> Stéphane Gourichon - Laboratoire d'Informatique de Paris 6 - Équipe AnimatLab

-- 
Thomas Poindessous
EpX asso GNU/Linux de l'Epita
[EMAIL PROTECTED] && http://www.epita.fr/~epx

RE: [Cooker] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION - Pay less attention to a dding features and more to fixing problems

[Don Head]

>>> Also, for bugs already cited and not been fixed, it often comes from the
>>> fact that either it seems a very minor bug and we're stuck to bigger
>>> problems, or, we don't know how to fix it.
>> 
>> Have you thought of using a bug tracking system for the distribution?
> 
> yep. we do now. we are in progress, to make it publicly available to you
> cookers. should be done within weeks.

Good to hear!

>> It could cut down the amount of traffic on this list, repeated 
>> problems, etc, ...
> 
> not true IMHO. just look at the number of things people ask even when we
> answer. there is too much traffic here so that people can read all. for
> the bug tracking system it's the same. when people have a bug they are
> lazy to consult the bug tracking system.

That is correct, in that people will still open a new bug.  But that does
not mean you have to re-type the answer again.  Someone "in-the-know" (bug
database maintainer) can do a simple search for the previous occurance of
the bug, mark the bug as a duplicate to that one, and then the bug submitter
can retrieve the previous solution.  MUCH less work than completely
redocumenting the bug and it's fix.

Don Head
Linux Mentor
Wave Technologies, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[AIM - Don Wave][ICQ - 18804935]
[IRC - EFnet, #WaveTech, Don-Wave]

Re: [Cooker] Netscape app-defaults & wheel

[Stephane Gourichon]

On Fri, 26 May 2000, Bobby Dowling wrote:

> On Thu, 25 May 2000, you wrote:
> > What X-resource entries do i put in "/usr/X11R6/lib/app-defaults/Netscape" to
> > get scroll to work ...where do i find this info?
> 
> 
> 
> Can someone send me what is supposed to go in this so that my dang scroll wheel
> works?
> 
> Thank You Very Much!!
> 
> Bobby

Do you really need to tamper with this file ?
I use netscape 4.70 included in 7.0, without imwheel and netscape window
(and gtk file dialog) scroll with the mouse button... I did not edit any
file.

This is part of my /etc/X11/XF86Config (yes, I have a MS intellimouse :-(,
and sometimes it bugs! The pointer on the screen shakes up and down, to
the screen edge...). Does yours have a ZAxisMapping also ? Perhaps you
should also put a "Buttons 5" of similar... ?

# **
# Pointer section
# **

Section "Pointer"
Protocol"IMPS/2"
Device  "/dev/psaux"
ZAxisMapping 4 5


# When using XQUEUE, comment out the above two lines, and uncomment
# the following line.

#Protocol   "Xqueue"

# Baudrate and SampleRate are only for some Logitech mice

#BaudRate   9600
#SampleRate 150

# Emulate3Buttons is an option for 2-button Microsoft mice
# Emulate3Timeout is the timeout in milliseconds (default is 50ms)
#Emulate3Buttons
#Emulate3Timeout50

# ChordMiddle is an option for some 3-button Logitech mice

#ChordMiddle

EndSection


--
Stéphane Gourichon - Laboratoire d'Informatique de Paris 6 - Équipe AnimatLab
"Bonjour, je suis un virus de signature de mail. Copiez moi dans votre
fichier signature pour que je me propage désormais avec vos mails. Merci."

Re: [Cooker] MIME types in KDE

[David Faure]

On Fri, May 26, 2000 at 10:14:14PM +0200, Denis HAVLIK wrote:
> :~>> Yes, David, but with our menu-system, all manually created kdelnk shall be
> :~>> deleted..
> :~>
> :~>Which shows a major flaw somewhere. That menu system is cool per se, but unless
> :~>all distributions adopt it, it creates a major incompatibility not only
> :~>between distributions but also compared to the core product,
> 
> AFAIK, "menu" system has been taken from debian, so at least in this case,
> we are not making the mess any biger by developing yet another manu
> system, but helping a good system to become a new standard in the future. 

Yeah, that's good - I learned that only today.
But from the questions I got about KDE's kdelnks, I doubt the debian one really
worked the same way, otherwise using it would have been straightforward ;-)

And as was pointed out, Mandrake was usually RH-compatible. Now it's kinda
hybrid between RH and debian, i.e. incompatible with both ;-)

Getting other distros to use the same system would be a good thing, indeed.

-- 
David FAURE, [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://home.clara.net/faure/
KDE, Making The Future of Computing Available Today
See http://www.kde.org/kde1-and-kde2.html for how to set up KDE 2

Re: [Cooker] MIME types in KDE

[Denis HAVLIK]

:~>> Yes, David, but with our menu-system, all manually created kdelnk shall be
:~>> deleted..
:~>
:~>Which shows a major flaw somewhere. That menu system is cool per se, but unless
:~>all distributions adopt it, it creates a major incompatibility not only
:~>between distributions but also compared to the core product,

AFAIK, "menu" system has been taken from debian, so at least in this case,
we are not making the mess any biger by developing yet another manu
system, but helping a good system to become a new standard in the future. 

cu
Denis
-- 
-
Dr. Denis Havlik
Mandrakesoft||| e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Quality Assurance  (@ @)(private: [EMAIL PROTECTED])
---oOO--(_)--OOo-

Re: [Cooker] Better availablilty of 486 distro

[Stephane Gourichon]

On Fri, 26 May 2000, Hoyt wrote:

> I should have made myself more clear. There does exist a 486 version of
> Mandrake 7.0, but it too low priority and is not available on fast servers.

I should also have made myself clear.
I downloaded and burned the 7.0 for my father's 486 laptop and already a
friend of mine asked me for it and installed it on a desktop 486 at home.



** What I meant was: please continue to offer 486 versions of your future
distributions, even if they are on very few mirrors. **



A side-effect of this is that people (newbie, journalists) will more
easily understand and spread the knowledge that:
1) Mandrake is optimized for Pentium or better processors
2) Linux and especially Mandrake Linux can also run on old hardware.
(Though you shouldn't try to launch Gnome + StarOffice on your 486 with 4
or 8Mb RAM, better stick with icewm or text mode or make it a
small server).

--
Stéphane Gourichon - Laboratoire d'Informatique de Paris 6 - Équipe AnimatLab
"Bonjour, je suis un virus de signature de mail. Copiez moi dans votre
fichier signature pour que je me propage désormais avec vos mails. Merci."

Re: crypto stuff on 2nd cd ; was: [Cooker] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION- Include the contents ofthe mandrakeusr.org sit on the second CD

[Daniel Hammer]

BS''D

Guillaume Cottenceau wrote:
> For the moment our politics are to limit as much as possible the amount of
> non open-source stuff on main installation CD [which is, now, CD
> Installation and CD Extension]

... which is a very good decision

Daniel.

[Cooker] Discussion: lack of stderr feedback under X: bring xconsole back!

[Stephane Gourichon]

Though Mandrake includes many improvements over previous distributions,
one user interface concern is still there: lack of stderr-like feedback
for X users.

Let me give some examples.

When a user under X runs a program from a broken window-manager menu
(still happens), the window-manager outputs an error message onto his
stderr, which is currently silently redirected by /etc/X11/xdm/Xsession to
the user's ~/.xsession-errors. Newbies don't know that, so they just see
that they click and nothing seems to happen.

When the user clicks on a terminal-based program in his file manager, the
program outputs a message on stderr/stdout. The file manager could offer a
"open in a terminal window" option, but not all do this. Same
problem. User wonders if something is broken, since nothing appears.

Suppose the user uses a floppy which happens to have bad sectors (am I
cursed ? This often happens to me, though I seldom use floppies). The
kernel will complain via syslog, which redirects to several places
(currently /dev/tty12 for example, but only if the user has chosen a
rather high security level). Again, the user has no clue why he cannot
retrieve his file.


Suggestion: bring xconsole back, with a suitable syslog/Xsession
configuration.
 
Currently /etc/X11/xdm/Xsetup_0 opens a console only if kdmdesktop isn't
available, which actually may be considered a bit illogical, unless you
considered that xconsole is good only for those who prefer old xdm instead
of kdm/gdm ?

Please do not include winbug-software-style read-then-click-to-close
dialog! xconsole is better: you can scroll back later and copy/paste, two
very important things that make those winbug-style dialogs lack.


A line like
kern.*  /dev/console
in /etc/syslog.conf, and a modification to /etc/X11/xdm/Xsession like
this should do the trick:

--- XsessionFri May 26 20:38:20 2000
+++ Xsession_modified   Fri May 26 20:51:36 2000
@@ -4,7 +4,7 @@
 
 # redirect errors to a file in user's home directory if we can
 
-for errfile in "$HOME/.xsession-errors" "${TMPDIR-/tmp}/xses-$USER" "/tmp/xses-$USER"
+for errfile in /dev/console "$HOME/.xsession-errors" "${TMPDIR-/tmp}/xses-$USER" 
+"/tmp/xses-$USER"
 do
 if ( cp /dev/null "$errfile" 2> /dev/null )
 then

Actually the best would be to log both into /dev/console for instant view,
and ~/.xsession-errors for reference log.

I've tried things like exec 2>&1 | tee "$errfile" >/dev/console 
but it didn't work and I couln't figure out an elegant solution.

(We could use 
mkfifo /tmp/somefifo
tee /dev/console
exec > /tmp/somefifo 2>&1
but this is ugly, there must be a better solution.)

What is your opinion ?


Also, a last thing: since I sometime switch to console mode, especially to
do things as root, or cd burning, I dislike that logging to /dev/console
clutters the text screen. Could a subtle /dev/(tty*|console) line do the
following trick ?
-syslog goes to xconsole if present
-syslog goes to /dev/tty11
/but/ syslog doesn't clutter other ttys.
I couldn't figure out how to do this...


--
Stéphane Gourichon - Laboratoire d'Informatique de Paris 6 - Équipe AnimatLab
"Bonjour, je suis un virus de signature de mail. Copiez moi dans votre
fichier signature pour que je me propage désormais avec vos mails. Merci."

[Cooker] Voodo 3 3000 and Xfree 86 4.0 issue

[B. K. Barley]

Ok,

I finally got the latest beta to install.  What a job.  However, in the
installation, I get the following error when I select the server:

(==)  Server Layout "layout1"
(xx)|-->Screen "Screen1"(0)
(xx)||-->Monitor = ""
(xx)||-->Device "Vodoo3 (generic)"
(xx)|-->Input Device "Keyboard1"
(xx) xkb:rules "xfree86"
(xx) xkb:FontPath set to "unix/: -1"
(xx) RgbPath set to "/usr/X11R6/lib/x11/rgb"
(==) Module Path set to "/usr/X11R6/Lib/Modules"
(--) Using UT Number 6

It also recomends going into change settings.  When I do this, it will not
let me retest the server.

When installation is complete, I reboot and X will not start.  Complains
with a fatal server error.

I need to get this up asap.  Any help would be greatly appriciated.

Bryan

RE: [Cooker] Denis: Shared Libs and better security model.

[Don Head]

I think that some of this may be beyond the scope of what Mandrake
would/should do, but it does need to be done.

There are currently two projects that I am aware of that are working on a
Linux filesystem access control list (ACL) implementation, similar to that
used by Windows.  I think that ACLs are one of the biggest problems with
Linux (and UNIX as a whole).  The one operating system that does have a
fairly decent implementation is Windows NT.  Is there anything Mandrake can
do to help further these two groups working on ACLs?

Linux Trustees:
http://www.braysystems.com/linux/trustees.html

Rule Set Based Access Control:
http://www.rsbac.de/

Don Head
Linux Mentor
Wave Technologies, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[AIM - Don Wave][ICQ - 18804935]
[IRC - EFnet, #WaveTech, Don-Wave]


-Original Message-
From: Denis HAVLIK [mailto: 
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 6:12 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Cooker] Denis: Shared Libs and better security model.


:~>Take a look at what Mac OS X is doing with it's shared libs by using 
:~>'bundles' and 'frameworks'.  I think this is a good idea and others might

:~>agree.  There is an article about it at:
:~>http://www.arstechnica.com/reviews/2q00/macos-x-dp4/macos-x-dp4-1.html
:~>
:~>I hate to say it, but as our systems get more complex we may need some
sort 
:~>of single point of configuration information, ala windows registry (or 
:~>something better).

This goes somewhat above the scope of what we currently want to
discuss. Major rewrites of standardised things like shared libraries can
not be decided upon here and now.

:~>More flexible & modern user/share security model like WinNT.

I want you to elaborate on this. Some security-related issues may be
addressed in a better way in NT than in Unix/Linux, other are definitively
worse... Which ones would you take from NT, why, and how.  

cu
Denis
-- 
-
Dr. Denis Havlik
Mandrakesoft||| e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Quality Assurance  (@ @)(private: [EMAIL PROTECTED])
---oOO--(_)--OOo-

Re: [Cooker] Netscape app-defaults & wheel

[Bobby Dowling]

On Thu, 25 May 2000, you wrote:
> What X-resource entries do i put in "/usr/X11R6/lib/app-defaults/Netscape" to
> get scroll to work ...where do i find this info?



Can someone send me what is supposed to go in this so that my dang scroll wheel
works?

Thank You Very Much!!

Bobby

[Cooker] Some thoughts

[Anton Graham]

Okay, sorry.  What was initially supposed to be a response to an
(IMHO) inapproprriate analogy turned into a statement about  why we
aren't really in competition with Redmond.

Submitted 26-May-00 by Hoyt:
 
| Fun to MS bash, but the reality is that MS is the competition and
| the poorer product has been known to win and the other die out (VHS
| vs. Beta?). 

In that particular case, the superior technology was far more
expensive for the end-user.  Additionally, to put it in software
terms, the ``Operating System'' (tape format) had to be licensed from
Sony.  This increased costs for ``developers'' (movie studios), who
chose to use the more freely available VHS.

In this case, we are not only superior, but less expensive (both in
terms of initial cost and TCO).  Furthermore, since the developers do
not have to support some would-be mega-corp's dreams of grandeur by
paying royalties on the use of the underlying technology.

Also, unlike the aforementioned videotapes, this is not a case of one
standard will survive.  As long as *anybody* uses Linux, development
will continue, if only by that single user.  That's part of the beuty
of it.

Microsoft achieved its dominant position in the market not because of
the quality of its product, but the lack of options.  Remember, Linux
has come further in the nine years since it was first envisioned than
Microsoft's OS offering did in the same time span.  Certainly a great
deal of that time has been spent ``catching up'' in terms of hardware
support, etc.

Microsoft successfully brought the computer to the masses with an easy
to use (if buggy) dress for good old 16 bit DOS.  We aren't competing
with that.  We are bringing choices, alternatives, and power.

Compared to Windows, our GUI projects are in their infancy.  Win has
been a commercial product in one form or another for longer than our
OS has existed.  This makes it the defacto standard by which our GUI
will be measured by potential users.  

There are a great many talented people working on improving both of
our dominant GUI's (notice the choice).  Theere are also many people,
like Daouda, who are working on making them play nice together and run
apps designed for the other smoothly.

Some of the coolest undocumented features in any given MS product can
not be reproduced exactly even in another MS product because of *how*
development there works.  They have teams competing with each other
and hiding the APIs they use to roll the product out.  Eventually,
nobody even knows how to use those undocumented APIs.

Here, if developer A sees an incredible feature in developer B's
product, he *can* find out how it works and incorporate it into his
own software.  Whithout opening the Open- vs Closed- Source can of
worms, it is apparent that any system in which the best features of
many products can be readily reproduced by annother with sufficient
skill will ultimately lead to better products.

Some of you still use Windows extensively, and that's fine.  We have
that choice.  For me, there are three pieces of software I run in
Windows, and all three are games.  One of them has viable Linux
alternatives, which I support, but find still inadequate to my needs.

While I do not hold out much hope of Linux ports of the three
particular games, I can now think of my $180 investment in Windows as
a game console.  My $50 investment in Mandrake was for an operating
system that works the way I like.

-- 
   _
 _|_|_
  ( )   *Anton Graham
  /v\  / <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
/(   )X
 (m_m)   GPG ID: 18F78541
Penguin Powered!

[Cooker] Beta3 ISO mirrors anyone?

[Colin Fowler]

(Apologies if this mail comes through twice later on - one of our servers
is having problems sending mail)

Hi does anyone know of a mirror of the beta3 iso's?
I can only find it at linuxberg.com. Cant find it on any 
mirrors or the usual ftp site. Google throws up a blank too
Im only getting 15k a sec here. Ive been downloading for hours
and searching for a mirror for that long too!.

regards,
Colin Fowler

Re: [Cooker] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION - Pay less attention to adding features and more to fixing problems

[Hoyt]

- Original Message -
From: "Stuart Krivis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 1:20 PM
Subject: Re: [Cooker] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION - Pay less attention to
adding features and more to fixing problems


> On Fri, 26 May 2000, Hoyt wrote:
>
> > With the current publicity about Win2k being shipped with LOTS of
> > bugs, shouldn't Mandrake get some good press for shipping with NONE?
>
> Having _no_ bugs is not possible. A distro that now takes up 2 CDs and
> includes code that wasn't written by MandrakeSoft guarantees that there
> will be some bugs. Hell, gcc and glibc have bugs, and everything is built
> on those. The bugs are built-in. :-)
>

Yes, but minimizing bugs is possible.

If there are documented bugs in the foundations of the OS, why isn't anyone
interested in getting them fixed? Well, it's because the developers are too
busy adding features because it's more fun than fixing bugs.

Hoyt

RE: [Cooker] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION - Provide a bare-bones in stall choice

[Don Head]

This to me sounds like an excellent idea, and I would really like to see
something like this.  I can think of MANY instances where it could be
useful.

I still think there are a number of dependency issues that need to be
resolved, mostly in that some packages require WAY to many packages that may
only been needed by one, small feature.  A real "bare bones" install should
have enough dependencies to get running, but not so many to bloat the size
and simplicity.  I ran across a really bad (IMHO) dependency issue one the
other day, I wish I could remember it to use as an example.

I think this has more to do with a problem in RPM itself, in the way it is
implemented (which is great, I'm not puting it down!).  How to implement it
a little better is a really hard chore.


Don Head
Linux Mentor
Wave Technologies, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[AIM - Don Wave][ICQ - 18804935]
[IRC - EFnet, #WaveTech, Don-Wave]


-Original Message-
From: Hoyt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2000 11:57 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Cooker] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION - Provide a bare-bones
install choice


Mandrake is becoming larger with each install  -- at least give us a choice
to install the bare minumum to get a functioning system and then add what we
need afterwards. There seems to be too much installed in the base system. If
I can get Linux plus X plus tools on a 50MB CD from the LinuxCare BBC
project, why must a minimal  install of Madrake take three to four times
that much space?

Hoyt

Re: [Cooker] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION - Dependencies

[Jonathan Prigot]

Even so. Could there not be a utility that recursively looks at the
dependencies the of RPM that you requested, and resolves each in turn? Come to
think of it, RedHat does that very thing with their graphical patching tool
(whose name I forget.) The only danger is that while the package you asked for
is listed at, for example, 5MB, it ends up growing to 50MB after all
dependencies are resolved.
---
On Fri, 26 May 2000, you wrote:
> 
> The ports system does this, since you don't stand much chance of
> successfully compiling something without the dependencies.  For
> binary packages, pkg_add is not that smart and only warns you about
> dependencies.
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
>  
> 
> Stuart Krivis[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
>  Fourth law of programming:
>Anything that can go wrong wi
> sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped
-- 
Jonathan M. Prigot (617-278-0794)
Brigham and Women's Hospital
900 Commonwealth Avenue, East
Boston, MA 02215-1213

Re: [Cooker] Beta3 bugs (please, fix this bugs)

[Civileme]

On Fri, 26 May 2000, you wrote:

Well, a post in html doesn't help matters.  Many people on this list cannot
read it on their mail clients.  Some people have filters to throw it away.  For
example, I found your mail in my trash bin, purely by accident.

XFree86 3.3.6 should work with your intel 810.  Please realize that the 810 is
not very good hardware and has presented problems for all linux distros. 
XFree86 version 4 is still an experimentally supported thing in this version,
and bug reports for 3.3.6 will receive attention while 4.0 will probably
receive attention in future distributions.  I strongly recommend use of 3.3.6
until 4.0 matures a bit more.

You could try SuSE or Debian.  I doubt if you will find the results much
better.  The 810 is a problematic chipset, and you may know that intel has
recalled the 820 boards altogether and that RESPONSIBLE resellers offer memory
specifically certified for the 810 because quite a lot of the SDRAM DIMM memory
out there will not work with the 810.  I built a few 810 Chipset computers,
installed windows 98 for my customers, and gave them a warranty that covered
ONLY windows use, for a bargain price--my cost, just to get rid of them. I
also warned my customers about the deficiencies and shortcomings of the
technology employed in those computers. I won't be building any more of them.

What you are using is a Beta version  Which means that your bug report was
seen and will be given attention before the final release.  Sending an
acknowledgement for bugs is not always done  It would be wasteful of
bandwidth. 

Actually your English is understandable and you have no need to apologize for
it.  Your expectations of the distribution seem to be quite a bit more advanced
along the "bleeding edge" than the distribution is.

So, try 3.3.6 for XFree86 and most of your problems should disappear.  The
partitioning errors I have seen myself and come from duplicate mount names more
frequently than anything else, though a more graceful way of handling that
error is desirable.  It is important to assure that each partition has its
own mount point (except for swap partitions).

Civileme

Re: [Cooker] [discuss] wine configuration

[Graham Percival]

On Fri, May 26, 2000 at 08:04:07AM -0400, Gallagher wrote:
> 1. Preconfigured Wine
> 2. Associated Wine with .exe files in KDE/Gnome
> 3. Graphical config for Wine

This is something that should be done eventually (though I'm expecting it to be
hooked into the "support for other binaries" at the kernel level, rather than
associations in file managers) but not in
the very near future.  The Wine group is currently discussing whether they can
shoot for a version 1.0 and what needs to be done first; I don't think that
they expect to reach that by the end of the year.  I think that Wine is too
volatile right now (not that it's a bad project; far from it.)

-- 
  Graham Percival

Re: [Cooker] cooker dir is 987M ?

[Colin Fowler]

Hi ppl,
I sent a mail a while ago but it didnt seem to get through.
Ive been downloading the iso for hours now and searching for a mirror
with no luck. Has anyone got a mirror or knows of an alternate?

regards,
Colin Fowler

[Cooker] [discuss] Default config suggestion

[Hoyt]

Make "Transparent Text for Desktop Icons" the default in KDE. It look
prettier.

Hoyt

Re: [Cooker] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION - Pay less attention to adding features and more to fixing problems

[David Aspinall]

 > yep. we do now. we are in progress, to make it publicly available to you
 > cookers. should be done within weeks.

Good news!

 > not true IMHO. just look at the number of things people ask even when we
 > answer. there is too much traffic here so that people can read all. for
 > the bug tracking system it's the same. when people have a bug they are
 > lazy to consult the bug tracking system.

Maybe right.  But I'd be happy to look first at the tracking system if
it's good (e.g. has search facilities and a record of resolved issues,
etc).

 - D.

[Cooker] bug with rpmdrake ?

[Guillaume Rousse]

latest rpmdrake package seems to be incompatible with the one that goes woth
mandrake 7.02 : it is unable to get the package list. The only way to get it
back is to switch back to previous version.
Also, it seems to be impossible to connect to a remote package dir with ftp,
for just a syntax problem :
name : rpmfind
url : ftp://rpmfind.net/linux/MandrakeCooker/cooker/Mandrake/RPMS/
relative url : ../base/hdlist.cz.2
always product " `with' missing for ftp media " rpmi.addmedia error message

-- 
Guillaume Rousse
Iremia - Université de la Réunion

Sleep doesn't exists. Just lack of cafeine.

Re: [Cooker] Better availablilty of 486 distro

[Hoyt]

- Original Message -
From: "Stephane Gourichon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 12:45 PM
Subject: Re: [Cooker] Better availablilty of 486 distro


On Fri, 26 May 2000, Hoyt wrote:

> Once the 586 distro has gone gold, it should be trivial to re-compile
> and produce the 486 distro. You lock yourself out of a large market by
> not making the 486 version as available as the 586. I would love to
> use it.

I need it, too :-), for my 200Mb-hard-disk 486 laptop.
A 486 version is an idea to keep, and get automatically done with every
stable release.

Many thanks!


I should have made myself more clear. There does exist a 486 version of
Mandrake 7.0, but it too low priority and is not available on fast servers.

Hoyt

Re: [Cooker] MIME types in KDE

[David Aspinall]

 > yes.. but also look at the menu system we produce with the 7.1 ; all your
 > apps get a menu entry, it's much more neat than ever for "standard" [eg
 > shipped by mandrake installation cd 7.1] apps.

Yep, that's good.

But couldn't you check the wmconfig directory too to support "legacy"
apps for a while (until you persuade RH to follow your way, 8-)

 - D.

[Cooker] Beta3 mirrors anyone?

[Colin Fowler]

Hi does anyone know of a mirror of the beta3 iso's?
I can only find it at linuxberg.com. Cant find it on any 
mirrors or the usual ftp site. Google throws up a blank too
Im only getting 15k a sec here. Ive been downloading for hours
and searching for a mirror for that long too!.

regards,
Colin Fowler

[Cooker] HOT KEYS SUGGESTION - Guillaume Cottenceau

[Lorne Shantz]

This is one of the biggest obstacles to overcome somehow. What needs to
be done is a standards committee ought to get together and tell the
developers "this is what needs to be done to make your application meet
this standard", and then distros like you guys would give them favorable
status over the non standard ones I guess. Hell... we are so much
farther down the road than we were just 1 year ago though, it is
amazing. I'm not complaining, just thinking out loud. After all... you
asked for it. 

Guillaume Cottenceau wrote:
> 
> Lorne Shantz <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > Sorry..I should have made the clearer.
> >
> > Yes I'm thinking it is probably related more to the apps than the
> > windows itself. For instance.. if I use the "windows" icon key it will
> > bring up the menu... then I went to the control panel. I wanted to
> > modify the mouse settings, but there needs to be a hot key under say the
> > F for File, and then a hot key for each command under that, so you could
> > get around and make commands. A few apps allow it but not very many. For
> > instance,  I'm using the netscape email program. There is File with the
> > F hot keyed, Edit with the E, View with the V, Tools with the T, etc.
> 
> yep. we're all dreaming of the perfect apps world for Linux!.
> unfortunately, apps are very heterogeneous. most of the time, there are
> hotkeys, often undocumented..
> 
> i don't really know how we could solve this problem; we cannot tell the
> people to respect KDE or Gnome or anything else hotkeys conventions.. we
> can encourage people to add hotkeys, but you know, even in opensource
> software, putting your hands on a program just to add hotkeys, and then
> leave the development team, is not a so good idea..
> 
> --
> Guillaume Cottenceau

Re: [Cooker] A few urpmi-based improvements

[John Grange]

Stephane Gourichon wrote:

> (I wrote about several ideas in this mail, but they are all about urpmi
> and friends, so I think it is ok to have them in one mail.)
>
> (Also, I use 7.0 but have not fiddled with 7.1 beta or cooker a lot, so
> please pardon if I ask for something already done)
>
> On Fri, 26 May 2000, Hoyt wrote:
>
> > Install of rpm "foo" fails because it depends on rpm "bar". Install of
> > rpm "bar" fails because of libs.so.o which is included in
> > jhgy-1.0.rpm.
>
> Why don't you just "urpmi foo" or use rpmdrake ?
>
> (To mandrake people: urpmi is a *real* improvement to an rpm-based
> distribution! Thanks!)
>
> rpmdrake (because it is based on urpmi) is really more powerful than
> gnorpm or kpackage (though I haven't tried them recently). It is really
> clean to have un/install of package automatically propagate un/install of
> other to respect dependencies.
>
> urpmi needs some remarks, though:
>
> -It is a bit slow, even on a fast machine when there are complicated
> dependencies.
> -It doesn't process everything when you put many (say, 30 or more) rpms to
> install at the same time. I had to re-issue the command several times
> until it installs all.
>
> -/WISH/ a uninstall feature in urpmi command line.
>
> -/WISH/ Some urpmi-based tool that help keep a bunch of machine's
> installation consistent. (I used to have autorpm, but things could be
> better, thanks to urpmi.) Basically, the slave machines would contact (or
> be contacted by) the "master" machine to get the canonical "rpm -qa" list,
> compare with the local list, install what you don't have (with automatic
> dependencies), uninstall what you have but shouldn't, =but= have a config
> file that says "don't install/uninstall things such as
> XFree86-, kernel, nfs, samba-server..." (BTW,
> XFree86-Mach64|SVGA|... could be renamed to XFree86-server-*.rpm ...
> perhaps you did this already for XFree 4.0)
>
> -/WISH/ that urpmi handles dependencies for alien rpms: say, I find
> package gluz-blabla.i386.rpm on the web, that needs libmesa or whatever
> and Mesa gets installed automatically when I say :
> urpmi ftp://gluz.org/gluz-blabla.i386.rpm
>
> -/DREAM/ that urpmi handles dependencies when I find an alien .=SRC=.rpm
> (or .tar.gz, but I never "make install" of a tar.gz as root). In the
> former example it would install Mesa and Mesa-devel to compile gluz
> automatically.

already avail with autourpmi
:)
works great do ./configure and it will install deps to satisfy the configure
requires
not prefect yet though you have to reisue the ./confiugre most of the time to
get to then find it

Re: [Cooker] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION

[Dalton Calford]

I have always found the greatest problem with Linux installs have always 
been around the selection of hardware and hardware choices.
I know that sometimes, one modual will support different cards from the 
same vendor, or, even from different vendors.  If you are using a
particular 
network card for example, and you do not know that tulip is the driver
needed,
you can spend hours trying to find out the appropriate modual to use.
I personally have a SMC card that does not use any of the SMC drivers,
it uses(used)
the epic100 driver. 

Many times a user has no idea of what chipset is on the particular card
they have, but they do know the brand and product name.

If the configuration tools (netconfig for example) gave a breakdown of
manufactures/models vs a dropdown list of modual names, life would be
alot easier for those who are just starting out.

Although we all love to hate MS, their method of allowing the user to
choose a catagory, then a manufacturer from that catagory, then a
product name is a simpler method than what is currently available.

As for the autodetection routines, they are not the most reliable and
should have some way to directly select your choices without needing to
directly edit any files in /etc

One prime example of this is configuring multi-headed X configurations
without needing to edit the configuration files. 

best regards

Dalton

Re: [Cooker] [discuss] Add a quick-expert install mode

[Jonathan Prigot]

How would this differ from the current autoinstall/kickstart scheme of setting
up a template machine and using the created auto_inst.pl file to set up other
machines?
---
On Fri, 26 May 2000, you wrote:
> 
> [Dream]
> With the "quick-expert mode" it should be possible to select manually in a
> single screen, without automatic detections, *all* the options at the very
> beginning of install (language, hardware, networks options, and so on). Then
> the rest of the install would be without human intervention until the end.
> (May be there will have problems with hard drive partition... we must think
> carefully about it).
> 
> Charles Népote.
> (Thanks for listening users !)
> 


Content-Type: text/html; name="unnamed"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Content-Description: 


-- 
Jonathan M. Prigot (617-278-0794)
Brigham and Women's Hospital
900 Commonwealth Avenue, East
Boston, MA 02215-1213

[Cooker] Squid problem

[Eduardas Paulavicius]

Hi,
I downloaded the 7.1 beta3 CD and performed upgrade from 7.0

Now I have the problem starting Squid version 2.3.STABLE2.

Executing: /etc/rc.d/init.d/squid start
> Starting squid: init_cache_dir /var/spool/squid... squid
* FATAL: Unknown cache_dir type '/var/spool/squid'
* 
* Squid Cache (Version 2.3.STABLE2): Terminated abnormally.
* CPU Usage: 0.010 seconds = 0.010 user + 0.000 sys
* Maximum Resident Size: 0 KB
* Page faults with physical i/o: 188

The usage of "cache_dir" option has been changed since they have a storage interface 
API.

What type of storage system I now need to specify to use with the cache directory ?

Thanks,
Eduardas

Re: [Cooker] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION - Pay less attention to adding features and more to fixing problems

[Stuart Krivis]

On Fri, 26 May 2000, Hoyt wrote:

> With the current publicity about Win2k being shipped with LOTS of
> bugs, shouldn't Mandrake get some good press for shipping with NONE?

Having _no_ bugs is not possible. A distro that now takes up 2 CDs and
includes code that wasn't written by MandrakeSoft guarantees that there
will be some bugs. Hell, gcc and glibc have bugs, and everything is built
on those. The bugs are built-in. :-)



-- 
 

Stuart Krivis[EMAIL PROTECTED]


 Fourth law of programming:
   Anything that can go wrong wi
sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped

Re: [Cooker] app-defaults for XEmacs?

[David Aspinall]

 > nothing set the default colors from XEmacs.

Theres a chance that XEmacs is responding to generic Emacs.*
resources, while it would ignore emacs.* ones?  Have you
edited those?

Re: [Cooker] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION : NEW PACKAGES

[Guillaume Cottenceau]

Olivier Dugeon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Hi,
> 
> Can you add some package from contrib and over : 
> 
> a2ps: usefull (and beautiful)  to print into PS printer

noticed this one [and packaged yesterday]. it'll make its way in our
distro very soon.

> atm support : Now ATM network is in upcomming 2.4 kernel
> acroread: Is it possible ?

is in comm cd AFAIK

> open-motif  : it's just been release under opensource 

under work.

> ethereal: in remplement of tcpdump ? or complement ?
> xforms  : many prog. used libforms
> xgfe: nice frontend for gnuplot
> 
> Themes for Gnome and Enligthment 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Olivier
> 
> -- 
>  FTR&D/DAC/ARP
>  Technopole Anticipa | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>  2, Avenue Pierre Marzin | Phone:  +(33) 2 96 05 28 80
>  F-22307 LANNION | Fax:+(33) 2 96 05 37 84
> 

-- 
Guillaume Cottenceau

Re: [Cooker] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION - Dependencies

[Stuart Krivis]

On Fri, 26 May 2000, Jonathan Prigot wrote:

> One thing that I have always admired in FreeBSD is the way that dependencies
> are automatically handled. If one package is needed by another, then it is
> automatically installed and the installation moves on.

The ports system does this, since you don't stand much chance of
successfully compiling something without the dependencies.  For
binary packages, pkg_add is not that smart and only warns you about
dependencies.



-- 
 

Stuart Krivis[EMAIL PROTECTED]


 Fourth law of programming:
   Anything that can go wrong wi
sendmail: segmentation violation - core dumped

Re: [Cooker] netscape (and other) fonts mess

[David Aspinall]

Pablo,

Thanks for the suggestion, but no, as I said, whatever I select I get
huge fonts.  Scalable or no.

My impression was that it was font server related rather than netscape
(but I may be wrong).

 - D.




Pablo Saratxaga writes:
 > Kaixo!
 > 
 > On Fri, May 26, 2000 at 04:20:38PM +0100, David Aspinall wrote:
 > > Okay, this was discussed a while back but still isn't fixed for me.
 > > 
 > > Since beta-2 or so I have huge fonts in Netscape.  Changing the fonts
 > > menu doesn't help whatever I select.
 > 
 > Have you checked the "allow scaling" for scalable fonts ?
 > 
 > > How do I fix it?  (More to the point, why isn't it working by default?)
 > 
 > Netscape is know to, when a scalable font is available, use it at the biggest
 > size by default. Specially for unicode pages.
 > 
 > 
 > -- 
 > Ki ça vos våye bén,
 > Pablo Saratxaga
 > 
 > http://www.srtxg.easynet.be/ PGP Key available, key ID: 0x8F0E4975

Re: [Cooker] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION - Pay less attention to adding features and more to fixing problems

[Guillaume Cottenceau]

David Aspinall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>  > Also, for bugs already cited and not been fixed, it often comes from the
>  > fact that either it seems a very minor bug and we're stuck to bigger
>  > problems, or, we don't know how to fix it.
> 
> Have you thought of using a bug tracking system for the distribution?

yep. we do now. we are in progress, to make it publicly available to you
cookers. should be done within weeks.

> It could cut down the amount of traffic on this list, repeated 
> problems, etc, ...

not true IMHO. just look at the number of things people ask even when we
answer. there is too much traffic here so that people can read all. for
the bug tracking system it's the same. when people have a bug they are
lazy to consult the bug tracking system.


-- 
Guillaume Cottenceau

[Cooker] Beta3 bugs on system with Intel CA810EAL mainboard

[Mantas Kriauciunas]

 I DON'T UNTERSTAND WHY NOBODY 
ANSWERS ME.
 
maybe I should use Suse or Debian insdead Mandrake 
?
 
Does anybody read my messages 
?
sorry for my terrible english 
:(
If this bugs wil be not fixed, I can't use Linux Mandrake 7.1 and switch to 
Suse 6.4, whith works fine on my system.
 
In my opinion Linux Mandrake 7.1 beta 3 is very unstable 
(Mandrake 7.0-2 too) and we must very hard work to fix these problems, otherwise 
Linux Mandrake los many potential users (for example me).
 
1. Text installer displays no lithuanian 
symbols (if I use graphical installer all is OK and after install i see all 
lithuanian symbols in console)
 
2. when I try to mount any partition 
(exclude linux swap) I got this  error: * warning: 
prijungimas nepavyko: No such file or directory  at 
/usr/bin/perl-install/fs.pm line 209. (in lithuanian 'prijungimas 
nepavyko' mean 'mount not successfull' 
or  something)  It happened in all previous betas 
also, but error was at line 208: * warning: prijungimas nepavyko: No 
such file or directory at /usr/bin/perl-install/fs.pm line 
208. 3. If I try setup remote printer (on ethernet 
LAN) installer fully hangs and only reset helps me :( (keyboard not 
work)
 
4. after install, when starting Mandrake 
7.1 beta3 system fully hangs (last message is about eth0 or something) and again 
only reset helps me :(
 
5. I have Intel 810e onboard video, but 
XF86 4.0 does not start :(
 
Can anybody help me ? Please, help me, 
otherwise I can't use Linux Mandrake 7.1 :(
 
/var/log/XFree86.0.log is 
attached.
 XFree86.0.log

Re: [Cooker] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION

[Larry Sword]

Denis HAVLIK wrote:

> Hi, folks!
>
> What follows is probably a single most important letter I ever posted on
> these mailing lists, so please read it very carefully!
>
> [ANNOUNCEMENT]
>
> We (Mandrakesoft) are starting internal discussions about future of
> our distributions NOW. We want you to take part in the process of
> improving our next distro.
> [
>
>
> [TOPICS]
>
> Topics we are particularly interested in at this moment include:
>
> 1) ergonomics: What should our user interfaces look like in the
> future, what should we improve in our desktop configuration, which things
> need polishing...

How about a "Linux Neighborhood Icon". Yes, something like which "that other
os" has. This would allow home networks to easily share resources on other
computers. This could be supermounted and displayed.

Re: [Cooker] MIME types in KDE

[Guillaume Cottenceau]

David Aspinall <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

>  > The current behaviour, instead, is quite ... aggressive. I suppose
>  > this was to make the migration easier (deleting the existing kdelnk/desktop
>  > files), but rpm -U could have done that instead, no ?
> 
> I wondered why my system listed about a hundred missing .desktop files
> when I did rpm -Va
> 
> Hmm, very naughty.
> 
> And the wmconfig mechanism is thrown out?  
> 
> Redhat compatibility was a very useful asset, you shouldn't discard it
> willy nilly.  All these bad changes make me think of switching back to
> plain RH.

yes.. but also look at the menu system we produce with the 7.1 ; all your
apps get a menu entry, it's much more neat than ever for "standard" [eg
shipped by mandrake installation cd 7.1] apps.

-- 
Guillaume Cottenceau

RE: [Cooker] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION rpmdrake improvment

[Guillaume Rousse]

rpmdrake is a very practical program, but it is somewhat limited to new package
installation and search by name or content. I'm not sure that newer or older
version of already installed package are also displayed. And query options are
somewhat limited in regard with those available with on-line command.

In fact, when i'm looking for packages to remove in order to gain free space, i
use rpm -query-by option, and sort the result by size. Or by the number
dependencies, and first i look at those whose presence isn't required by any
other. This could also be realised easily in a GUI such as rpmdrake, no ?
-- 
Guillaume Rousse
Iremia - Université de la Réunion

Sleep doesn't exists. Just lack of cafeine.

Re: [Cooker] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION - Address dependency issue better

[Hoyt]

- Original Message -
From: "Stephane Gourichon" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 11:55 AM
Subject: Re: [Cooker] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION - Address dependency issue
better


On Fri, 26 May 2000, Hoyt wrote:


>But that's a job to extend the rpm standard and should be discussed with
>the rpm maintainers, it goes beyond the work of a distribution maker,
>doesn't it ?

Not if they assume a leadership role in the industry, which MandrakeSoft
seems destined to do.

Hoyt

[Cooker] Beta3 bugs (please, fix this bugs)

[Mantas Kriauciunas]

 I DON'T UNTERSTAND WHY NOBODY 
ANSWERS ME.
 
maybe I should use Suse or Debian insdead Mandrake 
?
 
Does anybody read my messages 
?
sorry for my terrible english 
:(
If this bugs wil be not fixed, I can't use Linux Mandrake 7.1 and switch to 
Suse 6.4, whith works fine on my system.
 
In my opinion Linux Mandrake 7.1 beta 3 is very unstable 
(Mandrake 7.0-2 too) and we must very hard work to fix these problems, otherwise 
Linux Mandrake los many potential users (for example me).
 
1. Text installer displays no lithuanian 
symbols (if I use graphical installer all is OK and after install i see all 
lithuanian symbols in console)
 
2. when I try to mount any partition 
(exclude linux swap) I got this  error: * warning: 
prijungimas nepavyko: No such file or directory  at 
/usr/bin/perl-install/fs.pm line 209. (in lithuanian 'prijungimas 
nepavyko' mean 'mount not successfull' 
or  something)  It happened in all previous betas 
also, but error was at line 208: * warning: prijungimas nepavyko: No 
such file or directory at /usr/bin/perl-install/fs.pm line 
208. 3. If I try setup remote printer (on ethernet 
LAN) installer fully hangs and only reset helps me :( (keyboard not 
work)
 
4. after install, when starting Mandrake 
7.1 beta3 system fully hangs (last message is about eth0 or something) and again 
only reset helps me :(
 
5. I have Intel 810e onboard video, but 
XF86 4.0 does not start :(
 
Can anybody help me ? Please, help me, 
otherwise I can't use Linux Mandrake 7.1 :(
 
/var/log/XFree86.0.log is 
attached.
 XFree86.0.log

Re: [Cooker] Better availablilty of 486 distro

[Stephane Gourichon]

On Fri, 26 May 2000, Hoyt wrote:

> Once the 586 distro has gone gold, it should be trivial to re-compile
> and produce the 486 distro. You lock yourself out of a large market by
> not making the 486 version as available as the 586. I would love to
> use it.

I need it, too :-), for my 200Mb-hard-disk 486 laptop.
A 486 version is an idea to keep, and get automatically done with every
stable release.

Many thanks!

--
Stéphane Gourichon - Laboratoire d'Informatique de Paris 6 - Équipe AnimatLab
"Bonjour, je suis un virus de signature de mail. Copiez moi dans votre
fichier signature pour que je me propage désormais avec vos mails. Merci."

Re: [Cooker] app-defaults for XEmacs?

[Chmouel Boudjnah]

Guillaume Cottenceau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> In 7.0, the default background for Emacs was white, it was unreadable. Now
> it's hopefully better. For XEmacs, well, I don't know exactly how much

nothing set the default colors from XEmacs.

> work has been done since the 7.0 on color scheme..

-- 
MandrakeSoft Inchttp://www.mandrakesoft.com
In travel.--Chmouel

RE: [Cooker] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION initial RPM choice

[Guillaume Rousse]

Initial RPM choice is all but practical.
When you select any package, depending packages are also installed, but without
be signaled. So, if you change your mind and unselect the first one, there is
no way to unselect the others. rpmdrake does it, so why not the install
programm ?
Also, there should be a way to store the chosen rpm list in a file
automatically, so as to retrieve it later, for example.
All this comes from my first experience with SuSE, which was more functional
for this :-)

-- 
Guillaume Rousse
Iremia - Université de la Réunion

Sleep doesn't exists. Just lack of cafeine.

[Cooker] A few urpmi-based improvements

[Stephane Gourichon]

(I wrote about several ideas in this mail, but they are all about urpmi
and friends, so I think it is ok to have them in one mail.)

(Also, I use 7.0 but have not fiddled with 7.1 beta or cooker a lot, so
please pardon if I ask for something already done)

On Fri, 26 May 2000, Hoyt wrote:

> Install of rpm "foo" fails because it depends on rpm "bar". Install of
> rpm "bar" fails because of libs.so.o which is included in
> jhgy-1.0.rpm.

Why don't you just "urpmi foo" or use rpmdrake ?

(To mandrake people: urpmi is a *real* improvement to an rpm-based
distribution! Thanks!)

rpmdrake (because it is based on urpmi) is really more powerful than
gnorpm or kpackage (though I haven't tried them recently). It is really
clean to have un/install of package automatically propagate un/install of
other to respect dependencies.


urpmi needs some remarks, though:

-It is a bit slow, even on a fast machine when there are complicated
dependencies.
-It doesn't process everything when you put many (say, 30 or more) rpms to
install at the same time. I had to re-issue the command several times
until it installs all.

-/WISH/ a uninstall feature in urpmi command line.

-/WISH/ Some urpmi-based tool that help keep a bunch of machine's
installation consistent. (I used to have autorpm, but things could be
better, thanks to urpmi.) Basically, the slave machines would contact (or
be contacted by) the "master" machine to get the canonical "rpm -qa" list,
compare with the local list, install what you don't have (with automatic
dependencies), uninstall what you have but shouldn't, =but= have a config
file that says "don't install/uninstall things such as
XFree86-, kernel, nfs, samba-server..." (BTW,
XFree86-Mach64|SVGA|... could be renamed to XFree86-server-*.rpm ...
perhaps you did this already for XFree 4.0)

-/WISH/ that urpmi handles dependencies for alien rpms: say, I find
package gluz-blabla.i386.rpm on the web, that needs libmesa or whatever
and Mesa gets installed automatically when I say :
urpmi ftp://gluz.org/gluz-blabla.i386.rpm

-/DREAM/ that urpmi handles dependencies when I find an alien .=SRC=.rpm
(or .tar.gz, but I never "make install" of a tar.gz as root). In the
former example it would install Mesa and Mesa-devel to compile gluz
automatically.

This will be of most importance for user John McLambda with non-intel
architecture (Mac, for example... ? John like to have an
easy-to-feed-with-software OS, like the one he used before Linux, but
those i386.rpm from the web are useless, and John fears a .src.rpm is too
complicated because at the moment no urpmi-like tools handles dependencies
for compilation ... )

I know this one is tough, you'll probably have to process output from the
make process of .src.rpm ... but, hey, a source package (or .tar.gz with a
.spec file included) is a really relevant form for distributing free
software.


-/WISH/ Integrate rpm/urpmi/rpmdrake with the desktop and file manager (a
bit like TkStep does).

Easing two-way navigation between file tree and rpm tree within a single
file manager environment could be *really* comfortable for the end user.
For now, some people I've installed Linux gave up because they found it
too cumbersome to look for documentation.

Right-click on a file could say to which package it belongs, you can then
jump to the list of files that this package includes, with several tabs
"documentation files" "other files", so the user can at a glance see if
the package include others executable and docs. I imagine them like the
"panelize" function of mc: just a normal window of the file manager like
any other, that allows double-click or right click like any other file
icon, but files are shown with they full path. Of course, double-clicking
on any doc file should bring a powerful and comfortable doc browser
(customizable, also. I still prefer "man" in a terminal and "less
/usr/doc/gluz/*" to browse the doc over all gnome-help-browser of kdehelp)

Oops ! I hope I wasn't to verbose ! :-)
Please tell me what you think.

--
Stéphane Gourichon - Laboratoire d'Informatique de Paris 6 - Équipe AnimatLab
"Bonjour, je suis un virus de signature de mail. Copiez moi dans votre
fichier signature pour que je me propage désormais avec vos mails. Merci."

Re: [Cooker] netscape (and other) fonts mess

[Pablo Saratxaga]

Kaixo!

On Fri, May 26, 2000 at 04:20:38PM +0100, David Aspinall wrote:
> Okay, this was discussed a while back but still isn't fixed for me.
> 
> Since beta-2 or so I have huge fonts in Netscape.  Changing the fonts
> menu doesn't help whatever I select.

Have you checked the "allow scaling" for scalable fonts ?

> How do I fix it?  (More to the point, why isn't it working by default?)

Netscape is know to, when a scalable font is available, use it at the biggest
size by default. Specially for unicode pages.


-- 
Ki ça vos våye bén,
Pablo Saratxaga

http://www.srtxg.easynet.be/PGP Key available, key ID: 0x8F0E4975

Re: [Cooker] [discuss] wine configuration

[Chmouel Boudjnah]

Guillaume Cottenceau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> A good idea -- only problem is that [IMHO, i almost never used wine] you
> must be root to run wine no?

noip.

-- 
MandrakeSoft Inchttp://www.mandrakesoft.com
In travel.--Chmouel

Re: [Cooker] Better availablilty of 486 distro

[Alan Shoemaker]

Hoythttp://www.LLand.com/ carries version 7.0-2.i486 on
GPL CD.

Alan


Hoyt wrote:
> 
> Once the 586 distro has gone gold, it should be trivial to re-compile and produce 
>the 486 distro. You lock yourself out of a large market by not making the 486 version 
>as available as the 586. I would love to use it.
> 
> Hoyt

Re: [Cooker] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION : NEW PACKAGES

[Olivier Dugeon]

Hi,

Can you add some package from contrib and over : 

a2ps: usefull (and beautiful)  to print into PS printer
atm support : Now ATM network is in upcomming 2.4 kernel
acroread: Is it possible ?
open-motif  : it's just been release under opensource 
ethereal: in remplement of tcpdump ? or complement ?
xforms  : many prog. used libforms
xgfe: nice frontend for gnuplot

Themes for Gnome and Enligthment 

Thanks

Olivier

-- 
 FTR&D/DAC/ARP
 Technopole Anticipa | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 2, Avenue Pierre Marzin | Phone:  +(33) 2 96 05 28 80
 F-22307 LANNION | Fax:+(33) 2 96 05 37 84

Re: [Cooker] [discuss] HOWTOS

[Chmouel Boudjnah]

"Geoffrey Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> a easy way is to write a frontend rpm -qal or something to check fro a list

-qald should be better or implementing the dwww system from debian.

> of documents avaialble on the system. the usual search directories
> should be included of course, i.e. /usr/doc /usr/info.
-- 
MandrakeSoft Inchttp://www.mandrakesoft.com
In travel.--Chmouel

Re: [Cooker] Re: crypto stuff on 2nd cd

[Chmouel Boudjnah]

Guillaume Cottenceau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> xv is also known for its bad licence. i just saw that jade and jadetex are
> strange also.

not the last openjade version uploaded in cooker.

-- 
MandrakeSoft Inchttp://www.mandrakesoft.com
In travel.--Chmouel

Re: [Cooker] MIME types in KDE

[Chmouel Boudjnah]

Guillaume Cottenceau <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I don't know the position of Redhat, Suse, etc, about this Debian-designed
> menusystem. I personally think it's good, it adds more useability to
> end-user.

i'll do a proposition to the LSB to adopt it.

-- 
MandrakeSoft Inchttp://www.mandrakesoft.com
In travel.--Chmouel

[Cooker] Suugestion for new utility

[Hoyt]

There is a way to start a program that redirects the error messages to a
text file. I' ve used it several times to debug X, but I always have to look
it up. Couldn't it be put into a shell script called, for example, errlog,
and then given the program name as the argument and have the text file
written to /tmp as programnane.errlog ?

A small utility such as this would go a long way toward aiding newbies in
diagnosing problems.

Hoyt

Re: [Cooker] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION - Address dependency issue better

[Hoyt]

- Original Message -
From: "Geoffrey Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 12:02 PM
Subject: RE: [Cooker] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION - Address dependency issue
better


>
> though i must admit that it's a litle hard to understand the dependency if
> there are .so. files installed, because say you need libfoo.so.1 for a
> particular package, you might not know what package provides that ...
> not even knows how to do a for i in *;do rpm rpm -qpl $i | grep -qi
> 'libfoo.so.1' && echo $i
> done ...
>
>


So if you were to create a shell script to do this named, for example,
"whatrpmprovides", what would it look like? (I'm a writer, not a
programmer).

Hoyt

RE: [Cooker] Graphical installer

[Don Head]

One thing I do like, which Red Hat as been doing for a while, is allowing
the selection and deselection of package groups.

I can do a custom Red Hat 6.2 install, select "Web Server, FTP Server, SMB
Server, NFS Server, Development, and Utilities", change one or two
individual packages, and do the install, getting exactly what I'm looking
for.  I know then that I'm not getting the Mars-NWE/Novell connectivity
packages which I don't want even though this machine is a server, I'm not
getting multimedia and X because this machine is a server, and I'm not
getting the printing stuff because I don't have a printer.  I also then know
that I'm getting the development and utilities that I want, because this is
a telnet/SSH server that I use a lot remotely, and I need those tools.
Being able to add them to the install with a click of a mouse is excellent.

The package groups give you a lot of control over the installation, and can
select and deselect entire categories of software for those that need to
make machines with specific purposes in mind.  I think this is one thing
that Red Hat has over a number of other distributions.  You're not stuck
with their "Server, Workstation, or Custom" selection, and you're not stuck
with a giant list of 1,000 packages to choose from.  It's a good balance.
And for those that like that, it's there, even an "Everything" selection, so
that you can go through the list of 1,000 packages.


For those anti-Red Hatters, I don't use Red Hat for my personal systems, or
even my work systems.  I do support Red Hat though, and started with them
before I discovered Mandrake.  They are a good distribution.  I am a big
Mandrake proponent, as anyone that knows me will admit.


I guess that was a little more than 2 cents worth.


Don Head
Linux Mentor
Wave Technologies, Inc.
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[AIM - Don Wave][ICQ - 18804935]
[IRC - EFnet, #WaveTech, Don-Wave]


-Original Message-
From: Guillaume Cottenceau [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 9:27 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Cooker] Graphical installer


Anton Graham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> Submitted 26-May-00 by Denis HAVLIK:
> | At the moment, we offer three ways of choosing packages:
> | 
> | 1) you trust us to give you a nice set of packages.
> | 2) step 1: you tell the installer what kind of packages you are
> |interested in, and trust us that we know which packages 
> |go in which group
> |step 2: by moving a slider left-right, you decide how many MB
> | of packages you really want, and trust us to give you only "the
> | best of" if you move the slider to the left. 
> | 3) you want to choose the packages individually
> | 
> | I beleive that 1 and 2 are fine, but 3 is a kind of stupid with 1000+
> | packages. This is a major problem, but at the moment noone knows how to
> | improve the process - we are completely open for sugestions here. 
> 
> The problem with 1 and 2 is the scoring system used.  As an example,
> the vast majority of people do not have Palm Pilots, but the various
> pilot-linking apps are scored very highly.  At the same time, a great
> number of libraries are scored as ``garbage''.  If you don't do an
> expert install and select packages individually (a time consuming
> task) you frequently find need for something that wasn't installed and
> scratch your head in wonder at the things that were included.
> 
> The scoring system needs to be built around utility (and obviously
> different for each class of install).  Joe User on his desktop machine
> isn't likely to require inn or Zope.  Dennis Developer probably has
> little use for fax software on his build box.
> 
> When you trust somebody else to give you ``the best of'' you are
> dealing not only with the quality of the software involved, but the
> opinion of the person(s) who did the scoring.

Yes, but how to solve this ? The choices will never match anyone's needs.

But, what we can do right now is to rework the coring system with the help
of you cookers. We are waiting for your suggestions.


-- 
Guillaume Cottenceau

Re: [Cooker] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION -Provide a script to delete the many internationalization files that bloats the install

[Hoyt]

- Original Message -
From: "Pablo Saratxaga" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 10:43 AM
Subject: Re: [Cooker] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION -Provide a script to delete
the many internationalization files that bloats the install


Well, you can do it manually:

cd /usr/share/locale
for i in * ; do
case "$i" in
# ones to always keep; add your language if other than English
iso*|en*|C*) ;;
# delete all the rest
*) rm -rf $i ;;
esac
done

>
> Hoyt



Then you have written  the script to include in the distro or made available
through MUO

Thanks,
Hoyt

Re: [Cooker] [discuss] Windows binaries in Mandrake

[Hoyt]

- Original Message - 
From: "Pablo Saratxaga" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 10:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Cooker] [discuss] Windows binaries in Mandrake


Kaixo!

On Fri, May 26, 2000 at 01:14:45AM -0400, Hoyt wrote:

>> Explore2fs by J. Newbigin should be on there. There are  freeware ssh
>> programs, but no free X servers for MS Windows.

>There is a free X server (but it is one of the most difficult to setup and use
>on Windows).

>Another possibility would be to include win32 and java clients of VNC;
>that will also work both ways.



Good idea. What is the free X server? If its development is open, it can always be 
improved upon.

Hoyt

Re: [Cooker] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION - Pay less attention to adding features and more to fixing problems

[Hoyt]

- Original Message - 
From: "Geoffrey Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 11:48 AM
Subject: RE: [Cooker] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION - Pay less attention to adding 
features and more to fixing problems


> > >
> >
> > Mandrake has been able to tap a huge talent of volunteers because
> > they offer such a good product. I suggest coordinating these
> > "minor" bugfixes through MUO and/or having a bugfix discussion forum.
> >
> 
> yeh, but you still have to get people to issue the patches /fixes and fix
> them. the problemw ith that is that everyone is scremign to get things
> fixed, and patches are floating around on the ML. giving too many people
> permissions to touch the patches is not good since it'll be really messy.
> 

Then it's just an administrative issue. 


> > With the current publicity about Win2k being shipped with LOTS of
> > bugs, shouldn't Mandrake get some good press for shipping with NONE?
> >
> 
> 
> what ?? isn't win2k  a bug itself? :)
> 
> 

Fun to MS bash, but the reality is that MS is the competition and the poorer product 
has been known to win and the other die out (VHS vs. Beta?).

Quality and reliability can go a long way towards making market inroads.

Hoyt

Re: [Cooker] [discuss] Add a quick-expert install mode

[Hoyt]

- Original Message - 
From: "Guillaume Cottenceau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 9:16 AM
Subject: Re: [Cooker] [discuss] Add a quick-expert install mode


> "NEPOTE Charles (Neuilly Gestion)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > [Dream]
> > With the "quick-expert mode" it should be possible to select manually in a
> > single screen, without automatic detections, *all* the options at the very
> > beginning of install (language, hardware, networks options, and so on). Then
> > the rest of the install would be without human intervention until the end.
> > (May be there will have problems with hard drive partition... we must think
> > carefully about it).
> 
> We could add a GUI, you're right, but your proposition makes me thinking
> of the auto_install option, which just does the thing you're asking for.
> [you edit a text file which contains all the options for an automatic
> install as a Perl hash]
> 


This could be a component of  a corporate desktop focus, a place I see as the next 
frontier for Linux. 

I recently wrote a review of PowerQuest's Drive Image Pro (MaximumLinux July/August 
issue- with a Linux perspective) since it is MS only, it didn't do too well. But what 
a great tool this would be in a corporate environment if it worked for Linux. Then if 
there were easy and organized admin tools to work on the clients and even an 
X-workstation install option . . .

There's some $$$ there.

Hoyt

Re: [Cooker] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION - Pay less attention to adding features and more to fixing problems

[David Aspinall]

 > Also, for bugs already cited and not been fixed, it often comes from the
 > fact that either it seems a very minor bug and we're stuck to bigger
 > problems, or, we don't know how to fix it.

Have you thought of using a bug tracking system for the distribution?

It could cut down the amount of traffic on this list, repeated 
problems, etc, ...

Re: [Cooker] app-defaults for XEmacs?

[David Aspinall]

Guillaume Cottenceau writes:

 > > Colours on XEmacs have changed to something horrendous and ugly.  The
 > > ordinary defaults that blend well with the rest of the desktop are
 > > *much* better.  Could you change back, please, please?
 > 
 > You Should Use Emacs (tm) :-).

Good, you *are* joking!

 > In 7.0, the default background for Emacs was white, it was
 > unreadable.  Now it's hopefully better. For XEmacs, well, I don't
 > know exactly how much
 > work has been done since the 7.0 on color scheme..

Not sure this is correct.  On 7.0 I had the redhat-style
yellow-on-grey scheme for Emacs (bizarre but fine) and the default
black-on-grey scheme for XEmacs (also fine, and works nicely with KDE
if you select "use kde colours for non-kde apps").

On the beta just now, the grey/yellow scheme has extended to XEmacs
and it is terrible.

Summary: just leave the default for XEmacs.  Users who really want
something with a grey background...

 - D.

Re: [Cooker] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION - Address dependency issue better

[Stephane Gourichon]

On Fri, 26 May 2000, Hoyt wrote:

> > just use rpm --force ...e.g. i don't insall the mandrake_desk package becuse
> > i don't ened it so i use --force for wmaker. it's only in some cases that
> > you should use --force anyway.

--nodeps is less ... forcing.

> I often do just that =if= I understand what the dependency is all
> about, and for the average new user, that will be never.

Perhaps dependencies should be treated on several levels:

-critical dependencies (i.e. the binaries won't work at all but say
"shared library not found ...")

-need for optional features (does pam always need cracklib ? does mpg123
always need esd  ? [esd is too slow for a small pentium] ...)


Sometimes a packages needs another only if certain hardware is used
sndconfig doesn't need playmidi if your card doesn't support midi (okay,
it doesn't take too much space and can be removed with --nodeps, only you
have to /know/ that).


But that's a job to extend the rpm standard and should be discussed with
the rpm maintainers, it goes beyond the work of a distribution maker,
doesn't it ?


--
Stéphane Gourichon - Laboratoire d'Informatique de Paris 6 - Équipe AnimatLab
"Bonjour, je suis un virus de signature de mail. Copiez moi dans votre
fichier signature pour que je me propage désormais avec vos mails. Merci."

Re: [Cooker] [discuss] Windows binaries in Mandrake

[Hoyt]

- Original Message - 
From: "Stefan Siegel" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 3:28 AM
Subject: Re: [Cooker] [discuss] Windows binaries in Mandrake


Graham Percival schrieb:
>I am absolutely _AGAINST_ the idea shipping an ext2fs browser with "our" 
>distro!!! You have a security concept in UNIX/Linux that not everybody has 
>the right/possibility to see and modify files.

>NOONE has an interrested in introducing workarounds, except some stupid 
>win$uck users or some viruses. Why should we deliver those groups (which I 
>considder of same danger-level) the tools needet for their destructive 
>tasks 

You certainly make eloquent points, but GNU/Linux is all about choice, and Mandrake is 
all about producing a first rate distro and growing its market share. 

Hoyt

RE: [Cooker] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION - Address dependency issue better

[Geoffrey Lee]

>
> >
> > you are saying because package foo requires package bar so you must also
> > download package bar to satisfy pacakge foo right ??
> >
> >
> > just use rpm --force ...e.g. i don't insall the mandrake_desk
> package becuse
> > i don't ened it so i use --force for wmaker. it's only in some
> cases that
> > you should use --force anyway.
> >
> >
>
> I often do just that =if= I understand what the dependency is all
> about, and for the average new user, that will be never.
>



force is there because you get flexibility with rpm, dependencies aren't
meant to be broken, though i often break mine


don't worryt oo much, the average new user probably can't live without X.
things like gnorpm warn the user that breaking the dependency isn ot a good
idea  but it still allow you to do it. not sure about kpackage though.


though i must admit that it's a litle hard to understand the dependency if
there are .so. files installed, because say you need libfoo.so.1 for a
particular package, you might not know what package provides taht ...
not even knows how to do a for i in *;do rpm rpm -qpl $i | grep -qi
'libfoo.so.1' && echo $i
done ...


this is the only prob that i have ever had with dependency, otherwise it is
fine.


> Hoyt
>

Re: [Cooker] [discuss] Windows binaries in Mandrake

[Hoyt]

- Original Message - 
From: "Guillaume Cottenceau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 8:17 AM
Subject: Re: [Cooker] [discuss] Windows binaries in Mandrake


> "Hoyt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> > True, but in a "MS Windows world", anything that makes migration easier should be 
>embraced.
> > 
> > Explore2fs by J. Newbigin should be on there.
> 
> Yes, this one is quite good, however is a little bit bugged [for example
> you have to "right-click/export" the files to have a good version, if you
> drag n drop the files have garbage at the end].
> 

I'm certain John would welcome the support/encouragement of LM to continue improving 
the program. You already distribute his Win version of rawrite (  a little bug in it 
also - if you do not re-select drive A even when it is shown as the default, it will 
sometimes fail to write until A is re-selected).

Hoyt

Re: [Cooker] MIME types in KDE

[David Faure]

On Fri, May 26, 2000 at 05:17:15PM +0200, Guillaume Cottenceau wrote:
> David Faure <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > Well it should be fairly simple in theory: the menu system should only
> > deal with what it knows about, and leave untouched the .kdelnk or .desktop
> > files that come from external packages.
> > The current behaviour, instead, is quite ... aggressive. I suppose
> > this was to make the migration easier (deleting the existing kdelnk/desktop
> > files), but rpm -U could have done that instead, no ?
> 
> The problem if we leave the user's files unchanged, is that we come with a
> menu completely screw up. -> entries at the root level, duplicate entries,
> "apps" and "applications" groups, etc..

Because of the files in ~/.kde/share/applnk ?
Ok, the _first_ time, user's files could be removed (or rather backed up),
but once that's done, the user should be allowed to add kdelnks back again,
where he wants to...
And this doesn't apply to 'external' packages, which install into the global
dirs anyway.

-- 
David FAURE
[EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://home.clara.net/faure/
KDE, Making The Future of Computing Available Today

[Cooker] bug avec la Mandrake 7.0

[Roger Espel Llima]

pour information, j'ai eu des gros problèmes avec le package "msec" de
la Mandrake 7.0.  voici en gros ce qui m'est arrivé:

je lis la doc de msec, je tente "custom"; le script me pose quelques
questions, puis plante avec un "file not found".  petit tour dans le
source (c'est du sh), et on trouve la ligne:

tmpfile=`mktemp tmp/secure.XX`

bon, je rajoute le / qui manque, et apres quelques tentatives, je
confiture mon niveau de sécurité.  peu après, cron commence à me spammer
avec des find qui ratent, des messages d'erreur ou de debug, au rythme
d'une dizaine par heure (désolé, je les ai effacés, sinon j'en enverrais
bien une copie...).  je blaste quelques crontabs, je kille tous les
'find' qui tournent, et c'est bon.

quelques heures plus tard, je vais partir, et "shutdown -h" se plante.
j'éteins par l'interrupteur.

ce matin, au boot, al machine me demande "enter runlevel", puis sort
"INIT: entering runlevel 3", "INIT: no more processes in this runlevel",
et en reste là.  heureusement, un "linux single" depuis LILO me donne un
shell.  après quelques tentatives et plein de "e2fsck /dev/hda5" et
"mount / -o remount -rw" et autres joyausetés, un effacement sauvage
puis réinstallation des RPM "initscripts" et "SysVinit", et c'est bon.
il ne me reste plus qu'à remettre mes customisations de /etc/rc.d/*
depuis une copie d'/etc avant les changements.

je ne sais pas si la disparition du contenu de /etc/inittab a
quelque-chose à voir avec mes tentatives de faire marcher msec, ou si
c'est une coincidence, mais en tout cas, ce morceau-là de configuration
est particulièrement instable.

si des scripts appelés par msec font des modifs à des fichiers critiques
comme /etc/inittab, je suggèrerais d'écrire la version modifiée sous un
autre nom, pour ensuite faire un
rename("/etc/inittab.tmp","/etc/inittab").

franchement, je suis assez content de la mandrake en général, mais ce
"msec" est vraiment ridiculement buggé.

-- 
Roger Espel Llima, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.iagora.com/~espel/index.html

Re: [Cooker] [discuss] wine configuration

[Hoyt]

- Original Message - 
From: "Gallagher" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 8:04 AM
Subject: [Cooker] [discuss] wine configuration


> Suggestions:
> 
> 1. Preconfigured Wine

Excellent idea.

> 2. Associated Wine with .exe files in KDE/Gnome

Search C:\ drive for apps that are known to work and install in menu.

> 3. Graphical config for Wine
> 

Doesn't this already exist or am I thinking of dosemu, which BTW with the release of 
version 1.0 could use this same treatment.

Hoyt

[Cooker] Mandrake is not Redhat, but make certain you watch them

[Hoyt]

LM has a number of advantages over RedHat, but one of its strenghths is RedHat 
compatabiltiy. Please continue to follow RedHat conventions and maintain compatability.

Also, do you guys follow KRUD http://www.tummy.com/krud/?

Hoyt

Re: [Cooker] Re: GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION

[Daouda LO]

"Trelfa, Jonathon" a écrit :

> >NOW is a time to ask us whatever you want: tell us what you
> >like, tell us what you hate, tell us what you dream of!
>
> What I like:  Drakfont.  That program alone has made me one of the most
> happy people.
>
> What I hate:  There is no "common" copy,cut and paste commands.  For
> example:  I want to copy a URL from a text file in kedit and paste it into
> netscape...doesn't work.

This work and have nothing to do with OLE support !


> I want to cut some text from an email in kmail and
> paste it into PAN to post in a newsgroup...doesn't work.  Is there a way to
> make some sort of OLE (object linking and exchange) that allows all the
> programs to share a common clipboard and support drag-and-drop?

AFAIK dnd is different to the process of cut and paste !

some OLE like system exist (bonobo in GNOME ) and KPARTs in kde .
There are some works currently done to make this to objects models
interoperate.



>
>
> What I dream of:  Better support for mice with extra buttons (like my
> logitech cordless mouse man wheel).  I want to have a universal scroll and a
> button that double-clicks.  I dream that I can set this up without editing
> my XF86Config.

--
 --^^/°°\^^--
| Daouda LOemail:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
| workin' on KDE-GNOME interoperability

[Cooker] Better availablilty of 486 distro

[Hoyt]

Once the 586 distro has gone gold, it should be trivial to re-compile and produce the 
486 distro. You lock yourself out of a large market by not making the 486 version as 
available as the 586. I would love to use it.

Hoyt

RE: [Cooker] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION - Pay less attention to adding features and more to fixing problems

[Geoffrey Lee]

> >
>
> Mandrake has been able to tap a huge talent of volunteers because
> they offer such a good product. I suggest coordinating these
> "minor" bugfixes through MUO and/or having a bugfix discussion forum.
>




yeh, but you still have to get people to issue the patches /fixes and fix
them. the problemw ith that is that everyone is scremign to get things
fixed, and patches are floating around on the ML. giving too many people
permissions to touch the patches is not good since it'll be really messy.




> With the current publicity about Win2k being shipped with LOTS of
> bugs, shouldn't Mandrake get some good press for shipping with NONE?
>


what ?? isn't win2k  a bug itself? :)


> The reality is that what gets fixed depends on what priority
> Mandrake puts on it and how they want to be percieved in the community.
>



yop


> Hoyt
>

Re: [Cooker] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION - Kudos

[Hoyt]

- Original Message - 
From: "Guillaume Cottenceau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 6:31 AM
Subject: Re: [Cooker] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION


> Denis HAVLIK <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > 
> > I am going to spend a lot of time in reading "newbie" and "expert" mailing
> > lists during next two weeks. Guillaume  will do the same on the
> > "cooker" list, and other members of the company may pop-up and take 
> > part in discussion too, for topics they may be particularly interested in
> > (and if they get time to do it, our schedule is bursting).
> 


I am impressed with your approach. It is no wonder that Mandrake is as successful as 
it is.

A search of the recent archives and a look at the usenet group archives would also be 
useful. I assume that the comments on programs like KDE and GNOME that have their own 
large development groups will be shared with them.

Hoyt

Re: [Cooker] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION - Address dependency issue better

[Hoyt]

- Original Message - 
From: "Guillaume Cottenceau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, May 26, 2000 8:45 AM
Subject: Re: [Cooker] GET READY FOR A DISCUSSION - Address dependency issue better


> "Hoyt" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> > Nothing is more annoying than to try and intall an rpm and have it fail
> > because of a dependency issue, only to 1)have =that= rpm fial because of
> > another dependency issue, or 2) have the dependency be some library
> > buried in an rpm that isn't easily discernable. The program ezrpm
> > address some of these issues, some other approaches to package
> > management seem to be able to address these issues.
> 
> I can see the 2nd point, but can you make the 1st point a little bit more
> clear to me ? thanks a lot :-).
> 


Install of rpm "foo" fails because it depends on rpm "bar". Install of rpm "bar" fails 
because of libs.so.o which is included in jhgy-1.0.rpm.

Yes, a knowlegable person can find their way and a HOWTO may help the rest, but it 
shouldn't have to be that way.

Hoyt

[Cooker] netscape (and other) fonts mess

[David Aspinall]

Okay, this was discussed a while back but still isn't fixed for me.

Since beta-2 or so I have huge fonts in Netscape.  Changing the fonts
menu doesn't help whatever I select.

How do I fix it?  (More to the point, why isn't it working by default?)

While others are raving about drakfont, I've had nothing but trouble.
Every upgrade has needed me to do something to /etc/X11/fs/config
or /usr/X11R6/lib/fonts/misc before the fontserver will keep going.
This is very bad.

 - David.