[css-d] Alignment problem in IE

[Iorhael]

One final IE quirk to tweak.I have the content for this and other pages 
specified so that the title, arrows, and art all center align. But its not 
matching up in IE. Would this be another case of adding padding: 0 somewhere to 
correct IE?

http://www.drk-writing.com/northwesternesse/FanArt/ab_samgift.htm

Stylesheet:

body 
{ background-attachment: fixed;
  background-color: #fff;
  background-position: center;
  text-align: center;
  scrollbar-face-color: #030; 
  scrollbar-shadow-color: #66846A; 
  scrollbar-highlight-color: #66846A; 
  scrollbar-3dlight-color: #030; 
  scrollbar-darkshadow-color: #003300; 
  scrollbar-track-color: #fff; 
  scrollbar-arrow-color: #fff; 
}

p {
 font-family: 'Comic Sans MS', sans-serif;
 font-size: 14px; 
 color: #000;
 text-align: center;
}


h1 {
font-family: 'Comic Sans MS', sans-serif;
 font-size: 16px;
 text-align: center;
 color: #030;
 font-weight: normal;
}

.text {
text-align: left;
} 
 
  
#box {
 width: 740px;
 margin: 10px auto 10px auto;
 line-height: 115%;
 text-align: left;
 border: solid 1px #030;
 color: #000;
}

#banner {
 background-color: #030;
 border-bottom: 1px solid #030;
 width: 100%;
 margin-bottom: 0;
}

/*top menu*/

#menu {
 margin: 0 auto 0 auto;
 padding: .25em 0 .25em 0;
 border-bottom: solid 1px #030;
 text-align: center;
 width: 100%;
}

/*content for poems and art*/
 

#content {
padding: 1.5em 1.5em 2.5em 1.5em;
 width: 30em;
 margin: 0 auto 0 auto;
}

/*bottom links and copyright statement*/ 
  
#footer {
 clear: both;
 padding: .5em;
 border-top: 1px solid #030;
 text-align: center;
}
 
.navcopyright {
 display: inline;
 font-family: 'Comic Sans MS', sans-serif;
font-size: 10px;
 line-height: 14px;
text-align: center;
color: #030;
}

/*left-align text for poems*/

.text {
   text-align: left;
}   


/*art nav arrows*/

img.arrow {
   padding-left: .5em;
   padding-right: .5em;
}  

Is there a place that lists what fixes can be made in IE for different types of 
problems?

This will just about do it for all the sites I'm working on...thanks again to 
everyone for their abundance of help...I have been quite amazed at all the help 
I've gotten...I've been wanting to clear some of these issues up for a while 
now.


Thanks and Happy Holidays!

Debbie


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[css-d] Three Column Site - float problem

[Richard Brown]

Hi All

I am currently developing a three column site for Wordpress. However, I 
am having some problems with floating the columns.

The site is at:
http://www.swmug.co.uk/

The css is at:
http://www.swmug.co.uk/wp-content/themes/TimWordpress/style.css

Any ideas please what I need to do to get the columns to float side by 
side?

Many thanks.

-- 
Rich
http://www.cregy.co.uk
Embracing what God does for you is the best thing you can do for him. 
Romans 12 v 1

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Re: [css-d] Myspace

[Paul Walker]

Myspace and "Tom" are not interested in their markup as 80% of their 
response to to requests is not xhtml/css.  It's .jpg, .mov, .etc.  Get over 
the fact that http doesn't always mean the information you want to serve.


- Original Message - 
From: "D Ross" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Brian Cummiskey" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: "CSS" 
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 11:45 PM
Subject: Re: [css-d] Myspace


> This guy used to have an amazing myspace page but it appears they
> deleted it for some reason...I saw it before they did and was in awe
> that he could make all that table junk look like what he had it to. I
> checked out his code and he had used display: none and replaced table
> cells with divs and just replaced the content into the divs.
>
> Here's his site and about halfway down is a screenshot of what it
> looked like.
>
> http://www.timbenzinger.com/
>
>
>
>
>>
>>
>> I spent like 20 min on my page one night when i was bored, before i
>> got
>> frustrated with it.  You can't do anything good with it because 90% of
>> the tag-soup contains font tags and so forth that end up just
>> over-riding your css.
>>
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[css-d] [ADMIN] Re: Myspace

[Alex Robinson]

>  Loads of stuff about myspace <


If anyone wants to discuss the practicalities of actually styling 
myspace pages then go ahead, but other than that, we've had more than 
enough about myspace, kay?


Alex
css-d moderator
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[css-d] Two Column/Three Column Help

[Richard Brown]

Hi All

I recently asked for help for this site:
http://www.swmug.co.uk/
I was advised that my maths skills were somewhat out! Anyway, I have 
been thinking and realised that I could have made the site two column 
and place the image that is in the left column within the content and 
set a padding.

Please could I ask what would be the merits of creating:
1. Two column with background image and padding
2. Three column with a column dedicated to an image.

Many thanks

-- 
Rich
http://www.cregy.co.uk
Embracing what God does for you is the best thing you can do for him. 
Romans 12 v 1

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[css-d] Flash objects in MacIE5.2

[Phil Treble]

Hi all.

Could anyone please help with an IE5 Mac problem? I'm putting a site  
together at: http://townandcountry.philtreble.net/template.php (CSS  
within document). I've used two Flash objects... one for header  
banner and one for the LED display. On Mac IE5 the LED display gets  
put over the main navigation. I've tried inserting various 'clear:  
both;'s and 'display: block;'s but none have worked.  oh and Merry  
Christmas!

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Re: [css-d] firefox error?

[Spike Spencer]

Hi guys,

Another colleague problem here (seems I'm the officially elected rep for
css-d):

These three floats are level in Internet Explorer but not in Firefox for
some reason. Most baffling.

Due to privacy issues I'm unfortunately not able to share the site with you,
but I can show you a screenshot (off-list).

The columns look like this:

|--| ANNOYING GAP HERE
|  | |--| |--|
|  | |  | |  |
|  | |  | |  |


Here is the code:




   
   
   
   
   
  



   
   
   
   
   
  



  
  
  
  
  
 


Content






.gcol1
{
float: left;
text-align: center;
width: 260px;
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
}

.gcol2
{
float: left;
text-align: center;
width: 260px;
margin: 0;
padding: 0;

}

.gcol3
{
float: right;
text-align: center;
width: 260px;
margin: 0;
padding: 0;

}

.col1ul
{
list-style-type: none;
padding: 0;
margin: 0;
}

.col2ul
{
list-style-type: none;
padding: 0;
margin: 0;
}

.col3ul
{
list-style-type: none;
margin: 0;
padding: 0;
}

.gallery
{
width: 780px;
}

.gallerytext
{
width: 65%;
float: left;
text-align: justify;
background: #eee;
margin-left: 6px;
margin-top: 0;
}

#rest
{
clear: both;
}

Sorry not to be able to offer more. Thanks for any help.
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[css-d] IE 6 WIN - styled bleeding into

[Mike]

Greetings,

The first list entry in this page: http://mbreiding.us/fl_rt/all.html looks 
fine in FF 1.7 WIN


Baldwin to Jacksonville
RTC   FPBT
Region: Northern
Location: Baldwin to Jacksonville
Activities: Walking, Horseback Riding, Biking
Length: 14 miles 


In IE 6 WIN the styling from the  tag style is inherited ( if that is 
the right word ) by the following the  tag.

Solutions?

Thanks,
-Mike
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Re: [css-d] firefox error?

[Roger Roelofs]

Spike,

On Dec 22, 2005, at 7:56 AM, Spike Spencer wrote:

> Due to privacy issues I'm unfortunately not able to share the site  
> with you,
> but I can show you a screenshot (off-list).
>
> The columns look like this:
>
> |--| ANNOYING GAP HERE
> |  | |--| |--|
> |  | |  | |  |
> |  | |  | |  |

This may need a real page to diagnose.  Is there any way you can make  
a test case, or take a copy of the page and strip out the sensitive  
info?  This could be content sticking out of col1, or it could be  
something in the content above cols 2 and 3 whose margin is touching.

Roger,

Roger Roelofs
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: [css-d] IE 6 WIN - styled bleeding into

[Mike]

At 08:22 AM 12/22/2005 , Thomas Peklak wrote:
>Hi!
>Mayby it helps, when you write the valid html-code for the list-element:
>
> > 
> > Baldwin to Jacksonville
>
>
> > RTC   FPBT
>
>
> > Region: Northern
> > Location: Baldwin to Jacksonville
> > Activities: Walking, Horseback Riding, Biking
> > Length: 14 miles 
> > 
>
>Hope this helps. Best regards,   Thomas

Yes!
New CSS:

#wrapper ul, li
{display: inline;
margin-left: 30px;
background-color:white;
list-style-type:none;
font-size:13px;
font-family:Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, Helv, sans-serif;
line-height: 25px;
font-weight:bold;
padding: 0 6px 0 6px}

Correct (?) HTML

Baldwin to Jacksonville Rail-Trail

14 milesRTC   FPBT

Region: Northern
Location: Baldwin to Jacksonville
Activities: Walking, Horseback Riding, Biking



Thanks to all,
-Mike


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Re: [css-d] clearing a float without using a float

[CJ Larson]

> > Roger Roelofs wrote:
> > As Zoe said, you need a new 'block formatting context'  All of the
> > following will do that
> >
> > float: left;
> > position: absolute;
> > display: table;
> >
> > But, all of these cause the container to 'shrink-wrap'  Floating
> > .inside seems the most typical approach, but other approaches may be
> > better in your circumstances.  There are always trade-offs...

> Aditionally:
> 
> * display:inline-block (not Gecko)
> * the overflow property (other than visible, the default).
> * display:table-cell (weak in Safari)
> 
> Each have strengths and weaknesses.
> 
> for IE win, you can also use 'hasLayout' winIE property (setting a
> width/height on the container).

Thanks, that's exactly the information I needed.  I didn't know what
constituted a "new block formatting context", which makes it hard to do
that.  I wish there was an option "block-format: new;" or something.
O:-)

Roger - I agree, it seems my inside div is my best bet from what you
both say.  I need that outside content div just right for the other divs
I show/hide, and getting *that* layout working in different browsers was
fun...  Yeah, "fun"...  [PS: thanks Georg!]

Philippe - the browser check for the properties you gave will come in
handy and hopefully I'll be able to find one that displays well in them
all.  Fortunately I must have already triggered haslayout for IE, since
it's displaying just fine.  Whew.

Many thanks again,
cj
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Re: [css-d] Challenging layout - can this be done?

[Tom Dell'Aringa]

- Original Message 
From: Gunlaug Sørtun <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:
> http://www.pixelmech.com/rev/tile.html

Not sure if I got it right, but...

...was the only thing I could think of.
Maybe you can change it into something useful.

IE/win needs a bit of help on the basics (hover all), but the other
browsers should be fine.

Son of a Gun George, you always nail it :) I don't know why the z-index thing 
would not work for me, but this works fine in Mozzy. (I can deal with using 
only one browser at least for now). I can definitely work with this. Thanks!
 
 Tom






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Re: [css-d] Two Column/Three Column Help

[David Laakso]

Richard Brown wrote:

>I recently asked for help for this site:
>http://www.swmug.co.uk/
>I was advised that my maths skills were somewhat out! Anyway, I have 
>been thinking and realised that I could have made the site two column 
>and place the image that is in the left column within the content and 
>set a padding.
>Please could I ask what would be the merits of creating:
>1. Two column with background image and padding
>2. Three column with a column dedicated to an image.
>
I do not know, Rich. Despite 1 css error and 38 markup errors, whatever 
it is you've got now(I did not look at the code or markup, other than 
the body declaration) is working fairly well in XP and 
cross-browser..The 
page is only centered in IE. Adding margin: 0 auto; to the outermost 
container may do it for good browsers. You need a background-color on 
the body. Your page is fuchsia w/images disabled on my version of 
Opera(add html to the body declaration w/ a background color). You've 
got a 40px scroll bar at 800. The site functions with it, but you'll 
need to trim widths if you want to get rid of it.
Best,
~dL
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[css-d] Negative margins in IE

[Jonathan Carter]

I've got a container div with a 10px padding set on it, and inside of 
the container I have hr's whose margin-left and margin-right I've set to 
-10px so that they would "break" out of the padding and give the feeling 
of seperating the content within the container while keeping the padding 
for the text. This works nicely in FF, and in IE the hr stretches 100% 
of the available space but doesn't "break" out of the padding. Is there 
anyway to acheive what I'm trying to do? If there's a better approach 
than I've taken please let me know. Thanks.

Psuedocode:



   Sample text



   Sample text



-
Jonathan Carter
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Re: [css-d] Negative margins in IE

[Rowan @ Jetboy]

On the containing div, try either:

position: relative;

and/or:

height: 0;

The latter to give the  layout (as in hasLayout). I had to use both to
drag s out of s with negative margins, but it may be different in
your circumstances.

I'd strongly suggest you put at least the height declaration in a
conditional comment to avoid breaking real browsers. ;)




I've got a container div with a 10px padding set on it, and inside of the
container I have hr's whose margin-left and margin-right I've set to -10px
so that they would "break" out of the padding and give the feeling of
seperating the content within the container while keeping the padding for
the text. This works nicely in FF, and in IE the hr stretches 100% of the
available space but doesn't "break" out of the padding. Is there anyway to
acheive what I'm trying to do? If there's a better approach than I've taken
please let me know. Thanks.

Psuedocode:



   Sample text



   Sample text





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Re: [css-d] Myspace

[Brian Cummiskey]

D Ross wrote:
> This guy used to have an amazing myspace page but it appears they 
> deleted it for some reason...

They deleted it because he removed the ads from display.  That's the big 
thing in myspace terms of service.  You can do anything you want to your 
design, but you cannot cover up the ads.

> I saw it before they did and was in awe 
> that he could make all that table junk look like what he had it to. I 
> checked out his code and he had used display: none and replaced table 
> cells with divs and just replaced the content into the divs.

yup, thats the easy way to do it...


> Here's his site and about halfway down is a screenshot of what it looked 
> like.

> http://www.timbenzinger.com/


That's very nice, but again, it breaks the TOS, so it was rightfully 
deleted.  Perhaps they should have simply warned him to put the ads back 
in instead of just deleting it?   I don't know...


But, this is starting to get seriously off-topic.

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Re: [css-d] Myspace

[Alex Robinson]

>But, this is starting to get seriously off-topic.


OK, just to reiterate, when I wrote earlier today

   "we've had more than enough about myspace, kay?"

what I meant was for people not to continue this thread.

This thread is over. Is that clear enough?


Alex
css-d moderator
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[css-d] IE7 support for min-height.

[Tony Crockford]

does anyone know the current position regarding min-height support in IE7?

or more specifically, what will happen to CSS rules written thus:

div.headline{
 height: 40px;
 min-height: 40px;
 padding: 1px 0 0 0;
}

html>body div.headline{
height: auto;
}

where height set to 40px in the first declaration is reset to auto 
using a child selector, so that *good* browsers allow the div to grow 
with larger fonts or more content... (height acting as min-height in 
IE which can't see the child selector)

AIUI IE7 will support child selectors which will mean without 
min-height support my headline will collapse to the size of it's 
content...

(I have a lot of style sheets using this)

TIA

Tony

-- 
Join me: http://wiki.workalone.co.uk/
Thank me: http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/registry/1VK42TQL7VD2F
Engage me: http://www.boldfish.co.uk/portfolio/

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[css-d] Interesting IE bug with overflow inside an anchor

[Mike Purvis]

I don't know if anyone's seen this before, but I ran into it recently 
working on a photo gallery site for a friend: http://gallery.marshallweb.ca/

In FF, the images in the little square boxes are clickable, in IE5/6, 
they aren't. A span inside the anchor is being set to overflow:hidden, 
and then that's being used to crop a rectangular thumbnail into the 
square shape (with negative margins to center on the middle of the thumb).

The simplest solution, I think, is to just move the anchor INSIDE the 
cropping element, instead of wrapped around it, but it's kind of a 
baffling problem. (particularly creepy that draping a 
second---absolutely positioned---anchor in front of the whole business 
appeared to have no effect.)

Anyone seen this documented anywhere? (the miniboxes are also present on 
single-view pages: eg, 
http://gallery.marshallweb.ca/georgian-bay-august-2004/dsc_0092 )

Mike
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Re: [css-d] Challenging layout - can this be done?

[Gunlaug Sørtun]

Tom Dell'Aringa wrote:
>  

or 

> IE/win needs a bit of help on the basics (hover all), but the other 
> browsers should be fine.
> 
> Son of a Gun George, you always nail it :) I don't know why the
> z-index thing would not work for me, but this works fine in Mozzy. (I
> can deal with using only one browser at least for now). I can
> definitely work with this. Thanks!

You created overlaps in your original page. I took out half of the 
elements in each row and avoided overlaps. I also avoided using 
'position: absolute' since that tends to force layering and overlaps. I 
am more comfortable with 'floats' and 'negative margins'.

I didn't give it a test, but I think you can improve things by adding a 
"Whatever:hover"  to 
let IE6 in on the game. Other variants around...

My latest version (test_9311.html) does work in some older 
Opera-versions (and I regard all versions older than Opera9prev1 as old 
:-) ) Older Opera can't layer floats, while Opera9prev1 can.

A tip: no need to use large z-index values to lift layers on hover. They 
only have to be larger than the ones surrounding them. 1 - 2 - 3 will do 
just fine in most cases, or else the cases should be reviewed.
And, yes, IE/win do have some peculiar reactions to z-index when 
compared to other browsers. Not /too/ bad on simple layouts though.

regards
Georg
-- 
http://www.gunlaug.no
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[css-d] Peekaboo bug?

[Jonathan Berry]

I am reposting this only because I don't know what the protocol is for
placing "Site Check" in your subject line is, i.e. I didn't know if that was
to get comments or to show a problem. Anyway, we are on deadline and wanted
to get help with this possible bug:
http://www.haroldstevens.com/redesign/contact.html
We are having a problem with one of our sites wherein the left nav shifts
either on load or refresh (i.e. if you cannot get it immediately then
refresh and you will see the probelm). This is only in IE and looks like it
might be an instance of the Peekaboo bug. But we already have code in place
to handle that. Can you check it for us? Thanks in advance.
--
Jonathan Berry, M.A.
IT Consultant
619.306.1712(m)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.mindarc.com

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Re: [css-d] IE7 support for min-height.

[Eric A. Meyer]

At 7:20 PM + 12/22/05, Tony Crockford wrote:

>does anyone know the current position regarding min-height support in IE7?

Nobody outside Microsoft does.  In the various IE team postings 
about what will be added or fixed in IE7, 'min-height' (along with 
its cousins) has not been mentioned.  I have taken this to mean that 
their addition is unlikely, but not absolutely ruled out.  We'll just 
have to wait to see what happens.

-- 
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"CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously."
   -- Martina Kosloff (http://mako4css.com/)
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Re: [css-d] Peekaboo bug? - harolds

[Felix Miata]

Jonathan Berry wrote:
 
> http://www.haroldstevens.com/redesign/contact.html

http://mrmazda.no-ip.com/SS/jonab1.jpg

I wouldn't worry so much about peekaboo as your visitors' first reaction
hitting the back button. Who can or wants to read text 3/8 the size of
their default (.text-box {font-size: 62%;})?
http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/area60.html

Browser makers provide users with a preference adjustment precisely so
that they can optimize to the size that best suits them. So, defer to
what your users prefer, leaving your content's P text unsized, or
reinforcing it with an explicit font-size: medium. Too small text is the
#1 complaint from web users:
http://www.useit.com/alertbox/designmistakes.html 

See also: 
http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/defaultsize.html
http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/Font/font-size-quotes.html
http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/accessibility.html
-- 
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 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata  ***  http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/

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Re: [css-d] Peekaboo bug? - harolds

[Pringle, Ron]

> Browser makers provide users with a preference adjustment precisely so
> that they can optimize to the size that best suits them. So, defer to
> what your users prefer, leaving your content's P text unsized, or
> reinforcing it with an explicit font-size: medium. Too small 
> text is the
> #1 complaint from web users:
> http://www.useit.com/alertbox/designmistakes.html 
> 

> Felix Miata

The phrase "Too small text is the #1 complaint from web users", while it may
or may not be true, is a gross extrapolation from the link provided as
support.

It would be more accurate to say that "the #1 complaint of subscribers to
Jakob Nielson's Newsletter who responded to a survey directed at them is..."

Regards,
Ron
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Re: [css-d] Peekaboo bug?

[Ingo Chao]

Jonathan Berry wrote:
> http://www.haroldstevens.com/redesign/contact.html

Trying to access your page with text zoom maximized freezes IE here. 
With zoom set to middle the page loads and shows the problem you 
described. Changing the zoom by one step, reloading the page and changin 
again freezes it here too.

If it freezes at your side too with this manipulations, you should try 
to minimize your page, drop all that js stuff, remove all html comments. 
Then remove the elements step by step to encircle the problem.

Such a freeze/loop is often caused in IE by tight float settings which 
tend to cause duplicated chars.

Ingo


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Re: [css-d] External CSS caching

[David Hucklesby]

Hi Troy,
You wrote:

> Normally, the fact that the browser caches the external style sheet
> benefits the user. But while working on a large, commercial site,
> the problem of browsers recalling old external CSS from their cache
> has come up.
>
>
> If the external style sheet has changed, and the browser uses a
> cached version, the user will likely see some display problems.
>
Assuming you are talking about a testing environment, there are several 
solutions. Most simple is to use a browser's options. In IE, from the menu at 
the top, choose Tools > Internet options > General, then use the "Delete files" 
button. Firefox? Easiest way - get the Web Developer's Tool Bar, open the 
"Miscellaneous" item, and select "Clear Cache" from the list (#1). Opera - 
Preferences > Advanced > History. For the Disk Cache item, either use the 
"Empty 
Now" button, or check the "Empty on exit" checkbox and close / open Opera every 
time you suspect a cacheing problem. (Opera opens fast, and you can even reopen 
it at the original set of pages.)

The other alternative is to configure Apache (if that's what you are using) to 
set HTTP headers to expire CSS files. You may be able to do this with 
"htaccess" 
files[1] - but we are heading WAY off topic. I am sending this to the list only 
because cache control can mess up CSS testing, as you say.

[1] 

Cordially,
David
-- 
David Hucklesby, on 12/22/2005

--



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Re: [css-d] Two Column/Three Column Help

[Christian Montoya]

On 12/22/05, Richard Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi All
>
> I recently asked for help for this site:
> http://www.swmug.co.uk/
> I was advised that my maths skills were somewhat out! Anyway, I have
> been thinking and realised that I could have made the site two column
> and place the image that is in the left column within the content and
> set a padding.
>
> Please could I ask what would be the merits of creating:
> 1. Two column with background image and padding
> 2. Three column with a column dedicated to an image.

You do not want a column dedicated to an image. That's not semantic at all.

Just have the background image on the left column or the wrapper for
both columns, and yes, have padding. Beware of box model problems with
old browsers like IE 5: to avoid this, you can have a fixed width
wrapper with the background image, and an inner div with a left margin
equal to the background image and an auto width.

--
--
Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com ... cssliquid.com
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Re: [css-d] firefox error?

[Christian Montoya]

On 12/22/05, Spike Spencer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hi guys,
>
> Another colleague problem here (seems I'm the officially elected rep for
> css-d):
>
> These three floats are level in Internet Explorer but not in Firefox for
> some reason. Most baffling.
>
> Due to privacy issues I'm unfortunately not able to share the site with you,
> but I can show you a screenshot (off-list).
>
> The columns look like this:
>
> |--| ANNOYING GAP HERE
> |  | |--| |--|
> |  | |  | |  |
> |  | |  | |  |
>
>

The only fix I can suggest is to float all the columns in the same
direction, such as left.

--
--
Christian Montoya
christianmontoya.com ... rdpdesign.com ... cssliquid.com
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Re: [css-d] Peekaboo bug? - harolds -> Jakob's -> OT

[Felix Miata]

(My original reply was an accidental CC here, sorry.)

Pringle, Ron wrote:
 
> It would be more accurate to say that "the #1 complaint of subscribers to
> Jakob Nielson's Newsletter who responded to a survey directed at them is..."

Precisely the kind of people who care about web accessibility and
usability, hardly a bad sample, and certainly a better sample than one
taken entirely from among the population of web designers. It certainly
agrees with my experience discussing the issue with people whose puters
I'm fixing.
-- 
Jesus Christ is the reason for the season.

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409

Felix Miata  ***  http://members.ij.net/mrmazda/auth/

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Re: [css-d] Peekaboo bug?

[Pringle, Ron]

> Jonathan Berry wrote:
> > http://www.haroldstevens.com/redesign/contact.html
> 
> Trying to access your page with text zoom maximized freezes IE here. 
> With zoom set to middle the page loads and shows the problem you 
> described. Changing the zoom by one step, reloading the page 
> and changin 
> again freezes it here too.
> 
> If it freezes at your side too with this manipulations, you 
> should try 
> to minimize your page, drop all that js stuff, remove all 
> html comments. 
> Then remove the elements step by step to encircle the problem.
> 
> Such a freeze/loop is often caused in IE by tight float 
> settings which 
> tend to cause duplicated chars.
> 
> Ingo

+1 on Ingo's observations. I get the same freezing effect when changing the
zoom levels in IE. As the page draws the header in, I'd look at the comments
right before, and then the code pertaining to the main table you're using
for layout (and the div enclosing it), followed by the code for that
lefthand nav.

I encountered a similar bug on my site which Ingo was thankfully able to
isolate after much teeth gnashing. In my case it turned out to be the
duplicate characters bug trying to apply itself to an empty div, causing
some sort of infinite loop.

That may not apply in your case, but I'd pay attention to those comments I
mentioned above as a possible first step.

Regards,
Ron
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Re: [css-d] Peekaboo bug? - harolds -> Jakob's -> OT

[Alex Robinson]

  Felix and Ron wrote stuff about fonts and usability which 
essentially has nothing to do with CSS 

STOP!

You have entered holy war territory.

Proceed directly to the wiki pages and channel your energy into 
expanding the pages there on using fonts. Feel free to add as much 
opinion as you like but please refrain from continuing this thread.

Remember: every time a moderator is compelled to send an essentially 
pointless "Don't post a message that you know you shouldn't" warning 
to every single member of the list (that's 6808 right here, right 
now), a kitten dies.

Seriously, please stick to the practical application of css and 
actually answer the specific questions that people ask.


Alex
css-d moderator
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Re: [css-d] Peekaboo bug?

[Ian Anderson]

Jonathan Berry wrote:

> We are having a problem with one of our sites wherein the left nav shifts
> either on load or refresh (i.e. if you cannot get it immediately then
> refresh and you will see the probelm). This is only in IE and looks like it
> might be an instance of the Peekaboo bug. But we already have code in place
> to handle that. Can you check it for us? Thanks in advance.

Well, it does look like the Peekaboo bug, but as you say, there seem to 
be several things in place that should fix it such as fixed width and 
height and position: relative  in likely places, not to mention the 
Holly hack popping up here and there.

Since your html doesn't validate, can't validate your CSS either. 
Perhaps this would be somewhere to start, since obvious causes elude 
detection?

Best I can humbly offer is to consider what other elements could be 
triggering it, and put position: relative on everything with angle 
brackets...

(like seriously - spray a copy of the page with it, and see if the 
problem goes away. Then you can prune it all back and see if the 
offending element becomes obvious. Not so scientific, but could be worth 
a go if time is short?)

Also perhaps worth investigating - what happens if you remove the 
backgrounds from the elements concerned? Can these be applied anywhere else?

hth

Cheers

Ian

PS - What's with the float: none; on the .Nav-Box element?

-- 
_
zStudio - Web development and accessibility
http://zStudio.co.uk

Snippetz.net BETA - Online code library
File, manage and re-use your code snippets online
http://snippetz.net

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[css-d] Problems with nested s used for tabbed navigation in IE 6.0

[Allison Bloodworth]

Hi, 

I recently adapted Adam Kalsey's CSS tabs with nested submenus made up of
s (http://www.kalsey.com/tools/csstabs/) to create three levels of
navigation for a calendar. For some reason, my page
(http://mms.media.berkeley.edu:8901/UCBCNUsabilityMockups/Gateway/New/sports
-ucb-nested.htm) looks great in Firefox 1.5 but horrible in IE 6.0 and I
can't figure out why. The page is no longer centered and the second and
third level navigation is rendering vertically instead of horizontally. I've
used s to create this navigation and I've made sure all the s and
s in the submenus are marked "display:inline". Anyone have any
suggestions for me?

Thanks very much!

Allison Bloodworth
Principal Administrative Analyst
e-Berkeley Program Office
University of California, Berkeley
(415) 377-8243
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: [css-d] Problems with nested s used for tabbed navigation in IE 6.0

[Steve Clason]

On 12/22/2005 5:39 PM Allison Bloodworth wrote:

> I recently adapted Adam Kalsey's CSS tabs with nested submenus made up of
> s (http://www.kalsey.com/tools/csstabs/) to create three levels of
> navigation for a calendar. For some reason, my page
> (http://mms.media.berkeley.edu:8901/UCBCNUsabilityMockups/Gateway/New/sports
> -ucb-nested.htm) looks great in Firefox 1.5 but horrible in IE 6.0 and I
> can't figure out why. The page is no longer centered and the second and
> third level navigation is rendering vertically instead of horizontally. I've
> used s to create this navigation and I've made sure all the s and
> s in the submenus are marked "display:inline". Anyone have any
> suggestions for me?

Your DOCTYPE puts IE into quirks mode.  Try this (with the URI):

http://www.w3.org/TR/html4/loose.dtd";>

It seemed to take care of most of the issues you mentioned, though I'll 
admit I didn't look at everything.

-- 
Steve Clason
Web Design and Development
Boulder, Colorado, USA
www.topdogstrategy.com
(303)818-8590

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Re: [css-d] Peekaboo bug? - harolds

[david]

> Jonathan Berry wrote:
>  
>>http://www.haroldstevens.com/redesign/contact.html

When I kick the font size up one step in Firefox 1.5, the "Click here to 
  view a printable version starts to hide under the "Visit our showroom" 
area. Another step makes the printable version link disappear completely 
and a vertical scroll bar appear beside the images.

At my default font size, the Diamond Technology link cuts off at the "g" 
(it doesn't wrap).

-- 
David
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
authenticity, honesty, community
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Re: [css-d] Peekaboo bug?

[Jonathan Berry]

Thank you to all who commented. This site is one of our templated sites from
our "Infosites" group. They use the same code/CSS for all their sites, but
something was disturbed with this new one. The issues about font
size/zooming are something that I will have to investigate with our other
sites in this category and talk to their design team about. (The designer of
this particular site is on vacation so I was left with trying to help them
with this.) I will try the fixes tomorrow and post back my results. Thank
you again for all the help.

On 12/22/05, Ian Anderson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Jonathan Berry wrote:
>
> > We are having a problem with one of our sites wherein the left nav
> shifts
> > either on load or refresh (i.e. if you cannot get it immediately then
> > refresh and you will see the probelm). This is only in IE and looks like
> it
> > might be an instance of the Peekaboo bug. But we already have code in
> place
> > to handle that. Can you check it for us? Thanks in advance.
>
> Well, it does look like the Peekaboo bug, but as you say, there seem to
> be several things in place that should fix it such as fixed width and
> height and position: relative  in likely places, not to mention the
> Holly hack popping up here and there.
>
> Since your html doesn't validate, can't validate your CSS either.
> Perhaps this would be somewhere to start, since obvious causes elude
> detection?
>
> Best I can humbly offer is to consider what other elements could be
> triggering it, and put position: relative on everything with angle
> brackets...
>
> (like seriously - spray a copy of the page with it, and see if the
> problem goes away. Then you can prune it all back and see if the
> offending element becomes obvious. Not so scientific, but could be worth
> a go if time is short?)
>
> Also perhaps worth investigating - what happens if you remove the
> backgrounds from the elements concerned? Can these be applied anywhere
> else?
>
> hth
>
> Cheers
>
> Ian
>
> PS - What's with the float: none; on the .Nav-Box element?
>
> --
> _
> zStudio - Web development and accessibility
> http://zStudio.co.uk
>
> Snippetz.net BETA - Online code library
> File, manage and re-use your code snippets online
> http://snippetz.net
>
>


--
Jonathan Berry, M.A.
IT Consultant
619.306.1712(m)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.mindarc.com

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Re: [css-d] Peekaboo bug?

[bill scheider]

Hi Jonathan,

What I get here when I reload the page in IE6 is a crash. Once the initial
load crashed the browser. The second time, the page loaded ok (probably from
the cache) but when re-loaded the browser hung up after loading the header. 

In Firefox, I get a flicker when the page loads. In the past when I've had
this problem, it was due to not having image heights and widths specified.
Once I fixed that, no more flicker.

HTH,
Bill

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jonathan Berry
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 12:21 PM
To: css-d@lists.css-discuss.org
Subject: [css-d] Peekaboo bug?

I am reposting this only because I don't know what the protocol is for
placing "Site Check" in your subject line is, i.e. I didn't know if that was
to get comments or to show a problem. Anyway, we are on deadline and wanted
to get help with this possible bug:
http://www.haroldstevens.com/redesign/contact.html
We are having a problem with one of our sites wherein the left nav shifts
either on load or refresh (i.e. if you cannot get it immediately then
refresh and you will see the probelm). This is only in IE and looks like it
might be an instance of the Peekaboo bug. But we already have code in place
to handle that. Can you check it for us? Thanks in advance.
--
Jonathan Berry, M.A.
IT Consultant
619.306.1712(m)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.mindarc.com

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Jonathan Berry, M.A.
IT Consultant
619.306.1712(m)
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.mindarc.com

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