[css-d] W3C CSS Validation Service

[Philip Taylor (Webmaster, Ret'd)]

I don't know if it is just a case of excessive nostalgia, but
am I alone in thinking that the W3C CSS service is not what it
once was (in terms of Q.A., that is) ?  I ask because I have
recently thrown a number of putatively CSS documents at it,
the most recent being :


http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?uri=http%3A%2F%2Flettershop.ehclients.com%2Fcss%2Fall.css&profile=css21&usermedium=all&warning=1&lang=en

and the results returned are, in the main, complete and utter
nonsense.  What, for example, does it mean by

2Value Error : font-family
Property font-family doesn't exist in CSS
level 2.1 but exists in : 'Titillium Text22L
Bold'  'Titillium Text22L Bold'

or

Property src doesn't exist :
url('../fonts/TitilliumText22L005-webfont.eot')
url('../fonts/TitilliumText22L005-webfont.eot')

The first is meaningful up to "but exists in", then drifts
off into nonsense, whilst the second makes references to
a property that doesn't occur in the cited text fragment.

I am convinced that it used to do considerably better than
this; what do others think ?

Philip Taylor
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Re: [css-d] W3C CSS Validation Service

[Alan Gresley]

On 31/12/2010 7:44 PM, Philip Taylor (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote:

I don't know if it is just a case of excessive nostalgia, but
am I alone in thinking that the W3C CSS service is not what it
once was (in terms of Q.A., that is) ? I ask because I have
recently thrown a number of putatively CSS documents at it,
the most recent being :

http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/validator?uri=http%3A%2F%2Flettershop.ehclients.com%2Fcss%2Fall.css&profile=css21&usermedium=all&warning=1&lang=en


and the results returned are, in the main, complete and utter
nonsense. What, for example, does it mean by

2 Value Error : font-family
Property font-family doesn't exist in CSS
level 2.1 but exists in : 'Titillium Text22L
Bold' 'Titillium Text22L Bold'

or

Property src doesn't exist :
url('../fonts/TitilliumText22L005-webfont.eot')
url('../fonts/TitilliumText22L005-webfont.eot')

The first is meaningful up to "but exists in", then drifts
off into nonsense, whilst the second makes references to
a property that doesn't occur in the cited text fragment.

I am convinced that it used to do considerably better than
this; what do others think ?

Philip Taylor



What do you inspect to happen with embed font? The validator sees your 
CSS as junk. Why don't you try to validate as CSS3.




Only one error. Cool. :-)



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[css-d] pc opera/11.0

[David Laakso]

I have had a report that the top and/or bottom  borders of the nav 
buttons are clipped in pc opera/11.0.
I am unable to test to see if the correction for this is working on a pc 
[it is ok in mac 10.4].



Please open the page in a full window and see if the borders hold on a 
slow drag to a 320px window.


Thanks.

Best,
~d

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[css-d] Styling a Twitter widget with CSS

[Gabriele Romanato]

I started using Twitter a little more only during these holidays.  
Here's my Xmas gift to css-d:


http://onwebdev.blogspot.com/2010/12/css-styling-twitter-widget.html

We're talking about JS that creates styles... oh my, so we have to  
override them! :-)


HTH :-)


http://www.css-zibaldone.com
http://www.css-zibaldone.com/test/  (English)
http://www.css-zibaldone.com/articles/  (English)
http://onwebdev.blogspot.com/  (English)








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Re: [css-d] pc opera/11.0

[eric vesque]

Le 31/12/2010 10:53, David Laakso a écrit :

I have had a report that the top and/or bottom borders of the nav buttons are
clipped in pc opera/11.0.
I am unable to test to see if the correction for this is working on a pc [it is
ok in mac 10.4].


Please open the page in a full window and see if the borders hold on a slow drag
to a 320px window.

Thanks.

Best,
~d


Seems to work fine from 1600 to 220px. Nothing disapearing or being clipped.

Best.

Eric Vesque

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Re: [css-d] pc opera/11.0

[David Laakso]

On 12/31/10 5:51 AM, eric vesque wrote:





~d



Seems to work fine from 1600 to 220px. Nothing disapearing or being 
clipped.


Best.

Eric Vesque





Thanks, Eric...

~d

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Re: [css-d] W3C CSS Validation Service

[Philip Taylor (Webmaster, Ret'd)]

Alan Gresley wrote:


What do you inspect to happen with embed font? The validator sees your
CSS as junk. Why don't you try to validate as CSS3.




Only one error. Cool. :-)


What the validator sees it as is not my point; what I was
expecting was a meaningful diagnostic, such as


2 Value Error : font-family
Property font-family doesn't exist in CSS
level 2.1 but exists in CSS level 3


and/or


Property src doesn't exist :
src: url('../fonts/TitilliumText22L005-webfont.eot');


rather than the apparently arbitrary strings that the
validator is currently issuing.

Philip Taylor






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Re: [css-d] W3C CSS Validation Service

[Alan Gresley]

On 31/12/2010 10:16 PM, Philip Taylor (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote:



Alan Gresley wrote:


What do you inspect to happen with embed font? The validator sees
your CSS as junk. Why don't you try to validate as CSS3.



Only one error. Cool. :-)


What the validator sees it as is not my point; what I was expecting
was a meaningful diagnostic, such as


2 Value Error : font-family Property font-family doesn't exist in
CSS level 2.1 but exists in CSS level 3


Firstly it treats this as valid CSS2.1.

  @font-face {  }

It say this is a value error.

  @font-face { font-family: ; }


So for the first block we have this,

Parse Error [: "'Titillium Text22L Bold'"; src : 
url('../fonts/TitilliumText22L005-webfont.eot'); src : local('O')]


Parse Error [ url('../fonts/TitilliumText22L005-webfont.woff') 
format('woff')]


Parse Error [ url('../fonts/TitilliumText22L005-webfont.svg#Titillium 
Text22L Bold') format('svg')]


Parse Error [ url('../fonts/TitilliumText22L005-webfont.otf') 
format('opentype'); ]


via direct input.




Since it is being parsed as CSS2.1, it is looking for syntax like the 
following.


font-family:"lucida grande",tahoma,verdana,arial,sans-serif;




and/or


Property src doesn't exist : src:
url('../fonts/TitilliumText22L005-webfont.eot');



If you have this via direct input.

body {
margin: 10px;
src: url('../fonts/TitilliumText22L005-webfont.eot');
padding: 20px;
}

You get this.

Property src doesn't exist : 
url('../fonts/TitilliumText22L005-webfont.eot') 
url('../fonts/TitilliumText22L005-webfont.eot')


Which is almost the same as you were seeking.



rather than the apparently arbitrary strings that the validator is
currently issuing.

Philip Taylor



It not so arbitrary since different snippets via direct input will give 
different errors.



--
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Re: [css-d] W3C CSS Validation Service

[Philip Taylor (Webmaster, Ret'd)]

Alan Gresley wrote:


What the validator sees it as is not my point; what I was expecting
was a meaningful diagnostic, such as


2 Value Error : font-family Property font-family doesn't exist in
CSS level 2.1 but exists in CSS level 3


Firstly it treats this as valid CSS2.1.


(snip)

OK, but this still seems to be ignoring the main issue.

The validator says "Value error : Property 
doesn't exist in CSS 2.1 but exists in ...".  At that
point, the user would reasonably expect to be told in
which dialect(s) of CSS "Property " exists;
instead, he is told "exist in ..." a string from his
CSS, not containing said property, which is then repeated
for no apparent reason whatsoever.


If you have this via direct input.

body {
margin: 10px;
src: url('../fonts/TitilliumText22L005-webfont.eot');
padding: 20px;
}

You get this.

Property src doesn't exist :
url('../fonts/TitilliumText22L005-webfont.eot')
url('../fonts/TitilliumText22L005-webfont.eot')

Which is almost the same as you were seeking.


No it's not : it's totally different.  What I am seeking
is a mention of this property "src" that does not exist,
not a quasi-random snippet of the CSS that (a) does not
contain "src", and (b) is once again repeated for no
apparent reason whatsoever.

I am sorry, Alan, the validator seems to be a complete
and utter mess at the moment, no matter how generously
you seek to defend its aberrant behaviour.

Philip Taylor
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Re: [css-d] W3C CSS Validation Service

[David Laakso]

On 12/31/10 7:31 AM, Philip Taylor (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote:


I am sorry, Alan, the validator seems to be a complete
and utter mess at the moment, no matter how generously
you seek to defend its aberrant behaviour.

Philip Taylor



"How to provide feedback on w3c's CSS Validation Service"


~d


--
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http://chelseacreekstudio.com/fa/

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Re: [css-d] W3C CSS Validation Service

[Alan Gresley]

On 31/12/2010 11:31 PM, Philip Taylor (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote:



Alan Gresley wrote:

[snip]

If you have this via direct input.

body {
margin: 10px;
src: url('../fonts/TitilliumText22L005-webfont.eot');
padding: 20px;
}

You get this.

Property src doesn't exist :
url('../fonts/TitilliumText22L005-webfont.eot')
url('../fonts/TitilliumText22L005-webfont.eot')

Which is almost the same as you were seeking.


No it's not : it's totally different. What I am seeking
is a mention of this property "src" that does not exist,
not a quasi-random snippet of the CSS that (a) does not
contain "src", and (b) is once again repeated for no
apparent reason whatsoever.



But that is what it says.

  Property src doesn't exist



I am sorry, Alan, the validator seems to be a complete
and utter mess at the moment, no matter how generously
you seek to defend its aberrant behaviour.

Philip Taylor



I'm not defending the validator. What I saying is that the validator see 
your syntax as junk and spit out junk in the error report. If you come 
back a month later it may be slightly different.


I do believe the onus is on the author to use the correct level of CSS 
for a correct report since CSS doesn't have a thing called a Doctype.



--
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Re: [css-d] W3C CSS Validation Service

[Philip Taylor (Webmaster, Ret'd)]

Before providing feedback, David, I am trying to establish
whether there is a real problem or whether there is an
error of perception.  Which is why it would be nice to
try and achieve consensus on this list as to whether or
not the validator is behaving aberrantly before raising
it with the W3C Validator team.

Philip Taylor

David Laakso wrote:


"How to provide feedback on w3c's CSS Validation Service"


~d

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Re: [css-d] W3C CSS Validation Service

[Philip Taylor (Webmaster, Ret'd)]

Alan Gresley wrote:


Property src doesn't exist :
url('../fonts/TitilliumText22L005-webfont.eot')
url('../fonts/TitilliumText22L005-webfont.eot')

Which is almost the same as you were seeking.


No it's not : it's totally different. What I am seeking
is a mention of this property "src" that does not exist,
not a quasi-random snippet of the CSS that (a) does not
contain "src", and (b) is once again repeated for no
apparent reason whatsoever.



But that is what it says.

Property src doesn't exist


Yes, but NOT (apologies for shouting) in the fragment that
it then echoes, and then -- for no apparent reason -- repeats.


I do believe the onus is on the author to use the correct level of CSS
for a correct report since CSS doesn't have a thing called a Doctype.


There may well be merit in that argument, but are beginning authors
such as Rory likely to be aware of which level of CSS they are
apparently trying to use, particularly when recycling code fragments
from other sites ?

Philip Taylor
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Re: [css-d] W3C CSS Validation Service

[Bjoern Hoehrmann]

* Philip Taylor (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote:
>What, for example, does it mean by
>
>   2Value Error : font-family
>   Property font-family doesn't exist in CSS
>   level 2.1 but exists in : 'Titillium Text22L
>   Bold'  'Titillium Text22L Bold'
>
>or
>
>   Property src doesn't exist :
>   url('../fonts/TitilliumText22L005-webfont.eot')
>   url('../fonts/TitilliumText22L005-webfont.eot')

These two are rubbish, as you say in the first one you'd expect the CSS
variant where this does exist, and the second one (and by extension the
first one aswell) is rubbish because @font-face doesn't encapsulate
properties, but font descriptors. The pretty printed version of the
style sheet is broken aswell with empty blocks.
-- 
Björn Höhrmann · mailto:bjo...@hoehrmann.de · http://bjoern.hoehrmann.de
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Re: [css-d] W3C CSS Validation Service

[Philip Taylor (Webmaster, Ret'd)]

So : I have simplified Rory's "all.css" down to the shortest
fragment than can generate a diagnostic from the validator :

@font-face
{
font-family:foo;
}

Here is what the validator says :


Property font-family doesn't exist in CSS level 2.1 but exists in : foo  foo


Would other CSS-D members agree that

(a) A diagnostic "Property X does not exist in CSS level Y
but exists in : " could reasonably be expected to continue by
citing the dialect(s) of CSS in which Property X /does/ exist ?

(b) The statement "Property X doesn't exist in CSS level Y
but exists in : foo  foo" is completely wrong
   (it does /not/ "exist" in "foo  foo ") and would appear
to be the result of an error in the coding of the validator ?

and

(c) That the repetition in "foo foo", which does not occur
in the source, is also an indication of an apparent error
in the coding of the validator ?

If there is some degree of agreement on this, I will submit feedback
to the W3C Validator team.

Philip Taylor



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Re: [css-d] W3C CSS Validation Service

[Alan Gresley]

On 1/01/2011 12:26 AM, Philip Taylor (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote:

So : I have simplified Rory's "all.css" down to the shortest
fragment than can generate a diagnostic from the validator :

@font-face
{
font-family:foo;
}

Here is what the validator says :


Property font-family doesn't exist in CSS level 2.1 but exists in :
foo foo


Would other CSS-D members agree that

(a) A diagnostic "Property X does not exist in CSS level Y
but exists in : " could reasonably be expected to continue by
citing the dialect(s) of CSS in which Property X /does/ exist ?

(b) The statement "Property X doesn't exist in CSS level Y
but exists in : foo foo" is completely wrong
(it does /not/ "exist" in "foo foo ") and would appear
to be the result of an error in the coding of the validator ?


Then this is what feedback you can give.

Take this string.

  svg {opacity:0.5}

The report back is.

  Property opacity doesn't exist in CSS level 2.1 but exists in : 0.5 0.5

A little over a week ago, it did say "but exists in CSS level 3"


--
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Re: [css-d] W3C CSS Validation Service

[Philippe Wittenbergh]

On Dec 31, 2010, at 10:26 PM, Philip Taylor (Webmaster, Ret'd) wrote:

> @font-face
> {
>   font-family:foo;
> }
> 
> Here is what the validator says :
> 
>> Property font-family doesn't exist in CSS level 2.1 but exists in : foo  foo

I would argue that the first error _per CSS 2.1_ in this is '@font-face'
that @rule is not defined in CSS 2.1 (but is grammatically valid). From there 
on I'd expect the validator to ignore everything between the opening '{' and 
closing '}'.

Philippe
---
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http://l-c-n.com/





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Re: [css-d] W3C CSS Validation Service

[Philip Taylor (Webmaster, Ret'd)]

Alan Gresley wrote:


Then this is what feedback you can give.

Take this string.

svg {opacity:0.5}

The report back is.

Property opacity doesn't exist in CSS level 2.1 but exists in : 0.5 0.5

A little over a week ago, it did say "but exists in CSS level 3"


Fine, so we agree : the validator has (once again) taken a backward
step.  That was the premiss on which I started this thread, so I am
glad that there is now agreement that this is indeed the case and
a suitable error report can therefore be submitted.

Philip Taylor
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Re: [css-d] A good site for font-face

[Rob Emenecker]

The links Chetan provided gave me info to get started. I was not looking for
specific fonts, per se. I was looking for information on creating "families"
for webfonts, so that I could specify:

font-weight: bold;
font-style: italic;

And have it substitute in the correct webfont for the specific variant of a
given family. 

So that if I had, 

font-family: 'mywebfont', sans-serif;
font-weight: bold;
font-style: italic;

It was actually using, 

"mywebfont bolditalic"

The info at the links from Chetan had all of the details needed to build a
set of family styles for a given "webfont"!

:-)


Rob Emenecker @ Hairy Dog Digital
www.hairydogdigital.com
 
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[css-d] Web typography with CSS3

[Gabriele Romanato]

CSS3 can actually turn a bunch of text into a masterpiece or work of  
art:


http://onwebdev.blogspot.com/2010/12/web-typography-with-css3.html

HTH :-)

http://www.css-zibaldone.com
http://www.css-zibaldone.com/test/  (English)
http://www.css-zibaldone.com/articles/  (English)
http://onwebdev.blogspot.com/  (English)








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Re: [css-d] Web typography with CSS3

[Mark Kelly]

Hi.

On Friday 31 Dec 2010 at 16:47 Gabriele Romanato wrote:
> CSS3 can actually turn a bunch of text into a masterpiece or work of
> art:

Thanks for the link, but how about including a live demo to click on instead 
of just a PNG? 

I suspect a lot of readers in here have multiple browsers installed and would 
be interested in seeing the results "live" as it were, rather than having to 
copy and paste your code into an example file to see what happens.

Cheers,

Mark
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Re: [css-d] Web typography with CSS3

[Gabriele Romanato]

I know but I'm in a hurry... preparing for the New Year night :-D
On Dec 31, 2010, at 6:08 PM, Mark Kelly wrote:


Hi.

On Friday 31 Dec 2010 at 16:47 Gabriele Romanato wrote:

CSS3 can actually turn a bunch of text into a masterpiece or work of
art:


Thanks for the link, but how about including a live demo to click on  
instead

of just a PNG?

I suspect a lot of readers in here have multiple browsers installed  
and would
be interested in seeing the results "live" as it were, rather than  
having to

copy and paste your code into an example file to see what happens.

Cheers,

Mark
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http://www.css-zibaldone.com
http://www.css-zibaldone.com/test/  (English)
http://www.css-zibaldone.com/articles/  (English)
http://onwebdev.blogspot.com/  (English)








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Re: [css-d] Web typography with CSS3

[Alan Gresley]

On 1/01/2011 4:27 AM, Gabriele Romanato wrote:

I know but I'm in a hurry... preparing for the New Year night :-D






Very rushed transforms with transitions, hiccup.


--
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Armies Cannot Stop An Idea Whose Time Has Come. - Victor Hugo
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Re: [css-d] Web typography with CSS3

[Chris F.A. Johnson]

On Sat, 1 Jan 2011, Alan Gresley wrote:


On 1/01/2011 4:27 AM, Gabriele Romanato wrote:

I know but I'm in a hurry... preparing for the New Year night :-D






Very rushed transforms with transitions, hiccup.


   Nice and snappy in Firefox, but slow as molasses in Opera.

--
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   Author:
   Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress)
   Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
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Re: [css-d] Web typography with CSS3

[Guy K. Haas]

On Fri, December 31, 2010 10:49 am, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
> On Sat, 1 Jan 2011, Alan Gresley wrote:
>
>> On 1/01/2011 4:27 AM, Gabriele Romanato wrote:
>>> I know but I'm in a hurry... preparing for the New Year night :-D
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>> Very rushed transforms with transitions, hiccup.
>
> Nice and snappy in Firefox, but slow as molasses in Opera.
>

Also slow in Chrome.

--Guy K. Haas
  Software Exegete in Silicon Valley

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Re: [css-d] Web typography with CSS3

[David Laakso]

On 12/31/10 2:00 PM, Guy K. Haas wrote:

On Fri, December 31, 2010 10:49 am, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:

On Sat, 1 Jan 2011, Alan Gresley wrote:


On 1/01/2011 4:27 AM, Gabriele Romanato wrote:

I know but I'm in a hurry... preparing for the New Year night :-D





Very rushed transforms with transitions, hiccup.

 Nice and snappy in Firefox, but slow as molasses in Opera.


Also slow in Chrome.

--Guy K. Haas
   Software Exegete in Silicon Valley





Faster than a speeding bullet.
Safari
Mac OS X 10.4


--
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http://chelseacreekstudio.com/fa/

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Re: [css-d] Web typography with CSS3

[Al Sparber]

On 12/31/2010 2:00 PM, Guy K. Haas wrote:

On Fri, December 31, 2010 10:49 am, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:

On Sat, 1 Jan 2011, Alan Gresley wrote:


On 1/01/2011 4:27 AM, Gabriele Romanato wrote:

I know but I'm in a hurry... preparing for the New Year night :-D






Very rushed transforms with transitions, hiccup.


 Nice and snappy in Firefox, but slow as molasses in Opera.


I'm not sure if CSS animations or transforms will ever be viable unless 
and until browser rendering engines are re-written from the ground up to 
support them smoothly. Some folks might not care that a design looks 
"rough around the edges", but it would never pass muster with a good 
designer. We've been playing around with CSS3 effects, but not 
transitions/transformations. Here's a quick example:


http://www.projectseven.com/peeks/tpm2/demos/

And another:
http://www.projectseven.com/peeks/tpm2/demos/page5.htm

--
Al Sparber - PVII
http://www.projectseven.com
Dreamweaver Menus | Galleries | Widgets
http://www.projectseven.com/go/hgm
The Ultimate Web 2.0 Carousel
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Re: [css-d] Web typography with CSS3

[David McGlone]

On Friday, December 31, 2010 02:00:15 pm Guy K. Haas wrote:
> On Fri, December 31, 2010 10:49 am, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
> > On Sat, 1 Jan 2011, Alan Gresley wrote:
> >> On 1/01/2011 4:27 AM, Gabriele Romanato wrote:
> >>> I know but I'm in a hurry... preparing for the New Year night :-D
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> Very rushed transforms with transitions, hiccup.
> >> 
> > Nice and snappy in Firefox, but slow as molasses in Opera.

I get the same results in the these 2 browsers, but I like the molasses in 
Opera, it give is more of a "feel" instead of "bam!" :-)
> 
> Also slow in Chrome.

Chrome? Ah gotta go!

-- 
Blessings
David M.
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Re: [css-d] Web typography with CSS3

[Chris F.A. Johnson]

On Fri, 31 Dec 2010, David McGlone wrote:


On Friday, December 31, 2010 02:00:15 pm Guy K. Haas wrote:

On Fri, December 31, 2010 10:49 am, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:

...

Nice and snappy in Firefox, but slow as molasses in Opera.


I get the same results in the these 2 browsers, but I like the molasses in
Opera, it give is more of a "feel" instead of "bam!" :-)


   It's so slow in Opera that I wouldn't even see the effect if I were
   really using the links.

--
   Chris F.A. Johnson, 
   Author:
   Pro Bash Programming: Scripting the GNU/Linux Shell (2009, Apress)
   Shell Scripting Recipes: A Problem-Solution Approach (2005, Apress)
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Re: [css-d] Web typography with CSS3

[David McGlone]

On Friday, December 31, 2010 02:50:40 pm Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
> On Fri, 31 Dec 2010, David McGlone wrote:
> > On Friday, December 31, 2010 02:00:15 pm Guy K. Haas wrote:
> >> On Fri, December 31, 2010 10:49 am, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:
> ...
> 
> >>> Nice and snappy in Firefox, but slow as molasses in Opera.
> > 
> > I get the same results in the these 2 browsers, but I like the molasses
> > in Opera, it give is more of a "feel" instead of "bam!" :-)
> 
> It's so slow in Opera that I wouldn't even see the effect if I were
> really using the links.

Hmm, it wasn't that slow over here. It transistioned pretty smoothly.

-- 
Blessings
David M.
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[css-d] Can anyone suggest a better solution for tightening up this layout?

[Steve dell]

I am wondering if there is a better way for positioning this example of auto
generated content from an sqlite database.
http:www.stephengdell.com/links/

As some floats get longer, once a new row starts everything stays level with
the new row and there will end up being a lot of wasted space.
Is there any way to get the floats to rise up to fill in the empty space?

the rule I'm using on the modules is

div.section {
display:block;
float:left;
 clear: none;

width:13%;
border-radius:15px;
-webkit-border-radius:15px;
-moz-border-radius:15px;
padding:1.5em;
border:1px solid #3792b3;
margin:1em;
background-color: #FFF;
}

I also tried just
  display:inline-block;

but pretty similar result

thanks
steve
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Re: [css-d] Trouble with Opacity / Nav Menu in IE

[Chetan Crasta]

> Sure, keep in mind this is not a production level site as of now, so I
> ask that anyone please be respectful in not sharing/using it beyond
> debugging/inspecting the HTML/CSS.
>
> https://www.moremagicpoints.com/

The page has a lot of errors like incorrect nesting of elements,
nonstandard attributes etc. Always validate your html at
validator.w3.org and your css at jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator .
Also, keep in mind that a webpage is not only read by humans, but also
by computers (search engine bots). A page that might look OK to a
human might look horrible to a bot. This is why your HTML needs to be
semantic if you value a good rank in search engines.

Here is an example of how the page might be correctly coded:
http://roughtech.com/t/magic.html

Regards,
~Chetan
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Re: [css-d] google hosted font question

[Rory Bernstein]

I am grateful for all the activity about my question (@font-face). I am too 
sick today to really take it all in; but I wanted to quickly respond. I will 
get back to you early next week.
Happy New Year everyone!
Rory
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Re: [css-d] Web typography with CSS3

[David Laakso]

Homage to Gabriele

Dr Lakra
Oaxaca, Mexico

--
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http://chelseacreekstudio.com/fa/

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[css-d] text-shadow

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

I put some experimental text-shadow codes in a css file that *seems* to work
as intended in
Firefox, Chrome and IE8. Not sure about IE7 just yet.

.bshadow
{
  color: white;
  text-shadow: #22 1px 1px 0px;
}

So, although the browsers seem to honor it, the w3c validator
complains: Property text-shadow doesn't exist in CSS level 2.1 but exists in
: #ff 1px 1px 0 #ff 1px 1px 0 #ff 1px 1px 0 #ff 1px 1px 0

I'm not sure what the issues are here.

-- 

/*  Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh  >--oO0> */
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Re: [css-d] text-shadow

[Philippe Wittenbergh]

On Jan 1, 2011, at 9:19 AM, Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh wrote:

> I put some experimental text-shadow codes in a css file that *seems* to work
> as intended in
> Firefox, Chrome and IE8. Not sure about IE7 just yet.

IE 8 and older do _not_ support the text-shadow property (and IE 9b doesn't 
support it either, afaik).

> .bshadow
> {
>  color: white;
>  text-shadow: #22 1px 1px 0px;
> }
> 
> So, although the browsers seem to honor it, the w3c validator
> complains: Property text-shadow doesn't exist in CSS level 2.1 but exists in
> : #ff 1px 1px 0 #ff 1px 1px 0 #ff 1px 1px 0 #ff 1px 1px 0
> 
> I'm not sure what the issues are here.

The validator is correct: the text-shadow property is part of the CSS 3 text 
module (not CSS 2.1)
http://www.w3.org/TR/css3-text/#text-shadow

When you validate you stylesheet, you have to choose the correct css level, 
under options.
http://jigsaw.w3.org/css-validator/#validate_by_uri+with_options

The rest of the error output is a bug in the validator, see the recent thread 
'W3C CSS Validation Service'

Philippe
---
Philippe Wittenbergh
http://l-c-n.com/





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[css-d] seasonal type/transform

[Philippe Wittenbergh]

Camellia as an homage to six limes  by David Laakso.

… and a happy new year!

Philippe
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http://l-c-n.com/





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Re: [css-d] text-shadow

[Alan Gresley]

On 1/01/2011 3:15 PM, Tim Climis wrote:

On Friday, December 31, 2010 08:01:36 pm Philippe Wittenbergh wrote:

On Jan 1, 2011, at 9:19 AM, Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh wrote:

I put some experimental text-shadow codes in a css file that *seems* to
work as intended in
Firefox, Chrome and IE8. Not sure about IE7 just yet.




If it's really working for you in IE8, we'd all really love to know how.


IE 8 and older do _not_ support the text-shadow property (and IE 9b doesn't
support it either, afaik).



Yeah... which is really strange, because IE9b has box-shadow support -- just
not text-shadow.  Does anyone know why that is?

Also, wasn't text-shadow in the CSS level 2 spec (and then taken out for 2.1)
or am I misremembering that?

---Tim



It was taken out for a while since Safari had implemented the old syntax 
and the CSS WG though it would be better to leave it out of CSS2.1 since 
it was being worked on as CSS3.



See the spec and note the following question in red.



  | Should shadows be clipped to the glyph edges, like ‘box-shadow’
  | is clipped to the box edges, or should it be painted completely
  | underneath the text. (This makes a difference when the text is
  | partially transparent.)


I myself said on the CSS WG list that they should. It was good to have 
backup from David Hyatt.



Here is a simple example showing that the shadow is seen through the 
glyph edges.





Here are two quite elaborate examples.






After 2 or 3 years of this in the wild, I presume that text shadows will 
be seen through transparent text.


I presume the developers of IE are waiting for a formal decision from 
the CSS WG about the transparent issue and also text-shadow with inset 
or maybe they could only implement so much in a year or so.



--
Alan http://css-class.com/

Armies Cannot Stop An Idea Whose Time Has Come. - Victor Hugo
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Re: [css-d] text-shadow

[Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh]

>
>
>
> If it's really working for you in IE8, we'd all really love to know how.
>
>

It probably isn't working on IE8.  I boot Microflaccid as infrequently as I
can get away with.
If it looks at all acceptable I usually breath a sigh of relief, take the
clothes
pin off my nose and KVM back to Linux or Mac.  Sorry for passing bad
information
on a holiday.

:-((

-- 

/*  Colin (Sandy) Pittendrigh  >--oO0> */
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Re: [css-d] text-shadow

[Philippe Wittenbergh]

On Jan 1, 2011, at 1:15 PM, Tim Climis wrote:

> Yeah... which is really strange, because IE9b has box-shadow support -- just 
> not text-shadow.  Does anyone know why that is?

Probably because CSS3-text is still a draft, whereas CSS3 backgrounds and 
borders is basically CR.
(I expect rather fast progress if 2011 on CSS3 text and CSS3 writing-modes, 
given that epub 3.0 relies on it and is supposed to be released in spring 2011)

> Also, wasn't text-shadow in the CSS level 2 spec (and then taken out for 2.1) 
> or am I misremembering that?

Yes.
http://www.w3.org/TR/2008/REC-CSS2-20080411/text.html#propdef-text-shadow

(removed due to lack of implementations at the time, I suppose)

Philippe
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http://l-c-n.com/





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Re: [css-d] Web typography with CSS3

[Alan Gresley]

On 1/01/2011 6:07 AM, Al Sparber wrote:

On 12/31/2010 2:00 PM, Guy K. Haas wrote:

On Fri, December 31, 2010 10:49 am, Chris F.A. Johnson wrote:

[snip]

Nice and snappy in Firefox, but slow as molasses in Opera.



They are purposely slow for demonstration.



I'm not sure if CSS animations or transforms will ever be viable unless
and until browser rendering engines are re-written from the ground up to
support them smoothly.



Transforms can be smooth. Anyway rendering engines may need to be 
re-written grounds up to support CSS2.1 correctly. This may in turn 
cause the CSS 2.1 specs to be rewritten or more likely fixed up in as 
CSS3 or CSS4.




Some folks might not care that a design looks
"rough around the edges", but it would never pass muster with a good
designer.



As our list Chaperon says.

*CSS is much too interesting and elegant to be not taken seriously*



We've been playing around with CSS3 effects, but not
transitions/transformations. Here's a quick example:

http://www.projectseven.com/peeks/tpm2/demos/

And another:
http://www.projectseven.com/peeks/tpm2/demos/page5.htm



It took me a while to find what was transformed. These specs may be in 
draft form by when implemented, will revolutionize CSS.











--
Alan http://css-class.com/

Armies Cannot Stop An Idea Whose Time Has Come. - Victor Hugo
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