Re: [CTRL] THE HIDDEN TYRANNY
-Caveat Lector- On 11 Dec 98 , Jim wrote: If you wonder why this stuff is rising everywhere on the internet, check out the insulting "defense" being given by Clinton's defenders (heavily Jews such as Woody Allen Body Double Alan Dershowitz and the vicious Margaret Holtzman, Charles Schumer, Lanny Davis, Rahm, Emanuel, Barnie Frank, Jerry Adler etc. etc. etc.). There are others who are not Jewish, but only the brain dead fail to see how over-represented this one small fraction of the population is in so many evil movements. There is much, much smaller group of articulate and, I would say, courageous Jews who are opposing this crowd, such as those who are helping to bring eveyone the Middle East Realities (MER) list on the web. I gather these intrepid souls are paid for their trouble to express their honest opinions with ostracism from many elite circles. Just to remind you that 68% of the American population does NOT want Clinton impeached. Only 3% are Jewish. What you are saying reflects a strong bias. Schumer and the whole crowd of super-zionists would send 1,000,000 American boys to their death to defend the anti-Christian state of Israel if necessary, without batting an eye; and myself and a growing number Americans just aren't going to remain silent while complete the hi-jacking of this nation. As one elderly gentlemen I knew asked years ago in rhetorical fashion, "Who are these people who want to be above criticism? Jim Condit Jr. Did it ever occur to you that the US couldn't care less about Israel. or Jews. That the real interest is Mid-Eastern oil and the balance of power in that part of the world? Israel is the lynch-pin to US power in that area. Wm Turnstill gave an excellent, balanced reply to your post. I just wanted to add this as something to think about. sno0wl DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] The Wonderful Wizard of Oz
-Caveat Lector-
Most interesting of all is how we instinctively respond to these
stories with a sense of awe and magic. They touch "something" deep
within us which seems real and not external "propaganda."
The very best of children's literature seems to resonate with
"something" we already know--rather than imposing or teaching
external principles.
Curiously, too, M.P.Travers, author of Mary Poppins, was a Sufi
mystic and later in her life wrote many interesting essays for
Parabola, a journal dedicated to mythological and spiritual issues.
I think one can only see this as dangerous or "evil" if one is
entirely wedded to a religious dogma that considers the ideas
in these stories heretical.
On 11 Dec 98 , John wrote:
-Caveat Lector-
Pro McClelland of Harvard once stated that childerns stories are where the values
imparted from one generation to the next are the most clearly seen.
John
TheDawning of the the new age new world order
D L Cuddy
Chapter Four
The Wonderful Wizard of Oz
Masons are supposed to be engaged in a search for "light" (Ahura-Mazda is the
"spirit of light") with all of their"heart, mind, and strength."ln L. Frank Baum's
The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, the tin ma L. Frank Baum (possibly a Buddhist)
was int
erested in Theosophy (which he and his wife joined in 1896), and The Wonderful Wizard
of Oz is on page 36 of the Theosophical University Press 1989- Concerning
Theosophy, Baum pronounced, "God is Nature, and Nature God, " and in the Aberdeen, So
uth Dakota Saturday Pioneer (January 25,1890), he wrote of "an eager longing to
penetrate the s Baum believed in reincarnation, in karma, that there was no Devil,
and "that man on earth was only, one step on a ladder through many states of
consciousness
, through mans 'universes, to a final sta "The author of The Wonderful Wizard of 0Z
was well read in the occult sciences. .Paracelsus, the sixteenth century) Swiss
alchemist and physician, divided all spirits into , four categorie
s: Air the gnomes are the Nomes (the Nome king of The Life and Adventures of Santa
Claus und Ozma of Oz);
and the salamanders are the ,fairies of energy' (the Demon of Electricity of
TheMaster Key; the Lovely Lady of light of Tik-Tok of 0z).
Baum seems to have created a highly sophisticated cosmology by interpreting
this theory of spirits of elementals' in terms of tradirional fairies. This is
basically a religion of Nature.
Modern science itself has its origin in The Wonder full world of Oz the occult
sciences, in the search for the secrets of nature. It is nor by mistake that the
Shaggy Man in The Patchwork Girl of
In many of Baum's works, there are revealing references. In The Master Key,
a boy summons up the "Demon of Electricity," and A Kidnapped Santa Claus refers to a
"Demon of Repentance." The Tin A similar message ("The Power Is Yours") is
delivered today by Ted Turner's (1990 Humanist of the Year) "Cap-tain Planet" cartoon
program on television, where Gaia (the spirit of "Mother Eart
These all lead one to consider the possibility that Baum selected the word
"Oz" because it sounded like "us" (Baum wrote a poem rhyming Oz" with the word
"was"), meaning that if the heart (ti It is also possible that Baum chose
the nam
e "Oz" from the "0" in Oscar Wilde (famous author and Mason, born just two years
before Baum and died in the year 1900, when the Oz books began) and A third
possibility for Baum's selection of the word "0z" is that according to writer Jack
Snow,
Baum once wrote that he always enjoyed stories that caused the reader to exclaim with
"Ohs" an
Baum dedicated Wonderful Wizard of' Oz;( 1900) to his wife, whom he called
"my good friend and comrade." When Baum and his wife traveled to Europe in 1906, they
also went on to Egypt, where M The land of Oz, with its four countries, is
rectangular in shape like the state of Kansas. In the city of Wichita in south
central Kansas, about ten years ago a pyramid was built at 3100 Nort White Light. The
first issue of the comic was called "The Tale of the Kingdom of Light," as the author (
Pamela Wunder Myers) says: "A paradigm [referring to a cultural change] shift occurs
when a 'be In the first comic issue, Sir Cosmic searches for the Land of
"Awes" where he finds the Wonderful Wizard who describes their "Divine Science of Natur
e "and gives a riddle to Merlin that says, Love and cooperation rule in Oz, and
Masons seek light and harmony. Before meeting the Wizard in Oz, the cowardly lion says
he will do what's necessary until the Wizard "promises to give US wha
t we d There is also a certain existentialist and gnostic (transcendental
"self") aspect to The Wonderful Wizard of Oz. The Wizard in Oz tells Dorothy's
companions that what they most desire is alr says: "Baum's concern is with the
presentatio
n of reality and worth and of the power of the
Re: [CTRL] Fwd: Art Bell caught in HOAX! Update Thee Under Ground
-Caveat Lector- Thee Underground Net - http://www.theeunderground.net Hi, It's JP Essene editor of http://www.theeunderground.net Well we caught Art Bell in another HOAX. He posted FAKE MJ 12 docs on his site. [snip] You'll laugh at Art for being such a TWIT. Another HOAX with Art Bell in it. First Hale Bop, then his retirement now MJ 12. ART YOU SUCK Later JP Editor http://www.theeunderground.net (I'm not getting on the person who forwarded this email to let you know...) This person "JP" who doesn't have the courage to sign his full name is yelling at Art Bell for posting something on his site. Art has his own right to do whatever he wants with his site. I have never heard him (Art) say "Okay, these docs are real!" He just says things like they could be real or maybe not. He lets the viewers and listeners decide. Art at least has the guts to put something like that up if it's real or not. And JP caught Art in another HOAX! Oh god, let me go call the Nat'l Enquirer and go tell them this nice 2 page story. BIG DEAL!! If it is a hoax or not makes no diffrence, life goes on. This person, JP needs to get outside of his little apartment room and see that life is about more than just badgering someone waiting for them to slip up and laugh at them. Some people have better things to do, apparently he doesn't. Jesse Dolan (Art Bell Listener) DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] New multi million dollar republicans
-Caveat Lector- On 9 Dec 98 , [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Caveat Lector- With in months from not there will be a new group of multi million dollar republicans. This big sack may not appear in the congressmen bank accounts, it will be laundered through the best route the political mob has. The name of these republicans come under the "undecided" republicans. #1 The democrats will count to see how many republicans they need to stop the impeachment ... #2 And it will be those republicans who will (a) see the light of clinton and (b) have millions of dollars drop from heaven on them. Where would the Democrats get that kind of money? Everyone knows that they have so much trouble raising any, they have to go overseas to get it. When Clinton was accused of getting $7 million illegally, Dole was accused of getting $17 million illegally--but this Dole business was just mentioned as an afterthought. If you blinked, you would have missed it. Republicans, as Prudy and I know, can do no wrong. And never have sex either. Used to be if you had sex, you had to worry about getting pregnant. Then you had to worry about getting AIDS. Now you have to worry about incurring million dollar legal bills. Wonder where all the fun has gone. sno0wl DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Pike's Plan for Three World Wars
-Caveat Lector- from: BACK TO THE USSR -- WITH A VENGEANCE! http://www.inforamp.net/~jwhitley/russ.htm The following amazing revelations are abstracted from William T. Still's remarkable and detailed book, NEW WORLD ORDER: THE ANCIENT PLAN OF SECRET SOCIETIES [ordering information is given at the end of this extracted item]. It's well worth buying and reading! Still was a sceptical former newspaper editor and publisher when he first began, because of an interest sparked by some incredible confidences shared with him by his father [a senior U.S. Air Force officer], to seriously research this book. For those who are unaware of the importance of the two men introduced below, Mazzini and Pike were, respectively, the most influential men of their time in European and world Masonry: THE PLAN FOR THREE WORLD WARS Although they had finally united Italy, Mazzini and Pike realized that the unification of all Europe under the banner of Illuminism would be extremely difficult, if not impossible. Nationalism runs strongly in the human spirit and is very difficult to erase, especially on a continent divided by warfare for many centuries. Therefore, they set to work on their greatest plan, a plan so vast in scope that only a reader familiar with the great power wielded by the secret societies could begin to believe it. In 1871, Mazzini issued a letter in which he outlined the final three-part plan of the Illuminati: their grand design for ridding not just Europe, but the entire world of Christianity, and bringing it under the "Illuminated" dictatorship of Luciferianism. This remarkable letter was for many years on display in the British Museum Library in London. Mazzini proposed a series of world wars. These wars were to embroil every nation in a conflict so bloody and chaotic that eventually every nation would surrender its national sovereignty to an international government, like the League of Nations, or the second attempt -- current United Nations -- in order to prevent subsequent global bloodletting. One Masonic scholar wrote in 1987: The true birth of World Democracy from its prenatal national confinement is even now in progress. A war-torn, bleeding World is in the midst of labour-pains, preceding the ordeal of birth. Labor-pains in the birth of a New Age! However, knowing that national sovereignty would certainly die hard, three of these world wars were proposed by Mazzini and Pike in their original plan. The first of these world wars, they hoped, would topple the Czarist government of Russia and establish an Illuminized dictatorship -- a new level in the game of control of populations. This would give the Illuminists a secure base from which to operate, with a large population and vast natural resources to fuel the new engine of Illuminism. The second World War would allow the new Soviet Russia to capture Europe -- or as it turned out, half of it. The third World War would be in the Middle East between the Moslems and the Jews, and would bring about the Biblical Armageddon. Certainly by the end of the Third World War, the battle-wearied nations would be ready to accept any proposal as long as it promised peace, uniting the entire world under the fatal banner of the Luciferian New World Order. Pike wrote to Mazzini about the consequences of the Third World War in 1871: It will provoke a formidable social cataclysm... and the most bloody turmoil. Then everywhere, the citizens, obliged to defend themselves against the world minority of revolutionaries, will exterminate those destroyers of civilization, and the multitude, disillusioned with Christianity, ...will be without a compass, anxious for an ideal, but without knowing where to render its adoration will receive the true light through the universal manifestation of the pure doctrine of Lucifer, brought finally into public view, a manifestation which will result from the general reactionary movement which will follow the destruction of Christianity and atheism, both conquered and exterminated at the same time. Mazzini and Pike may have planned three World Wars in 1871, but the two authors of the Communist Manifesto, Marx and Engels, both spoke of the First World War twenty-three years before that. Karl Marx wrote in 1848 that the "Slavic riffraff," referring to the Russian people, as well as the Czechs, and Croats, were "retrograde" races whose only function in the world history of the future was to be cannon fodder. Marx said, The coming world war will cause not only reactionary classes and dynasties, but entire reactionary peoples, to disappear from the face of the earth. And that will be progress. As though merely repeating Marx's lead,
Re: [CTRL] Clinton
-Caveat Lector- Your subject line should have read: More deranged commentary from dr. quack quack. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Re-Post-Narco Hypocrisy
-Caveat Lector- The late great Ace R. Hayes. Gavin. www.radio4all.org/pfp/hypocrisy.html Narco Hypocrisy by Ace R. Hayes The term "narco democracy" is an insult hurled at Latin American countries by U.S. federal officials. In the field of psychology this is termed projection: seeing in someone else the negative characteristic one is emotionally unable to recognize as actually true about himself. The absolute truth is that the U.S. is the largest, most important narco democracy on planet earth. The DoD-CIA-DEA-FBI-Customs Mob is the General Motors of global drug production, distribution and marketing. This mob investigates itself when public reports appear and, of course, finds itself innocent of all charges. The war on drugs would be a farce if it were not so damned tragic in its effects on everything and every person it touches. No nation can survive on lies and wars with itself. Government abrogation of its social contract with the people is the road to disaster. The drug economy funds not only secret services that rape, pillage and burn all over the globe, it funds transnational banks and corporations. Can anyone even pretend that Mexico, etc., would be making payments on their loans from Wall Street banks without narco dollars? Nor would any of those narco dollars exist if there was not a market for drugs. No mass market could exist without the existence of mass production and distribution. Neither the Crips nor the Bloods has C-130's that can fly tons of drugs into the U.S. from all points of the compass and never be detected by U.S. government military or civilian agencies. Now, who could possibly run such a program? Obviously it is the government, and only the government, that can run the drug transport system. Want to see a real narco democracy? Look in the mirror, look in Washington, D.C., look in Wall Street, look into the FLEA's (Federal Law Enforcement Agencies). As Pogo was fond of saying, "We has met the enemy and he is us." The sanctimonious hypocrisy of the U.S. government "certifying" other countries as valiant drug warriors is such an absurdity it belongs in Alice in Wonderland or "Wag the Dog." The anti-Commie Cold War of government lies, spies and counter-insurgency around the world and here at home was institutionalized. This Moloch [definition: a deity who was propitiated by the sacrificial burning of children] can not be eliminated because it employs far too many people. Too many people have their careers, paychecks and world view at stake to simply say, "Wow, we won the Cold War! Let's shut down the imperial war machine, bring the troops home, stop pouring a quarter-trillion dollars a year into killing machines, and cut the 27-billion-dollar-a-year spook budget." No way could any "peace dividend" end up in Joe Lunchbucket's mailbox. To avoid the catastrophic consequences of victory and peace, new bogeymen had to be concocted. Roll out the "rogue nations," "narco democracies," "international terrorism" -- bring on the new wars on crime, drugs, terrorism, pornography, violence -- anything to save the money machine that pollutes the planet, destroys lives and corrupts every society. The war on drugs is the new pretext for precisely the same counter-revolutionary programs for killing the poor that were once justified by anti-Communism. This old wine in a new bottle seems to be selling quite well. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Lawyers Unconstitutional Control of the Nation
-Caveat Lector- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Lawyers are amoral by definition and necessity, and as such should not be making the rules for the rest of society to live by. snip I contend that we can do without 95% of the minutia many laws have evolved into largely because lawyers write them. Again we have courts to resort to when necessary. snip I have full confidence in my fellow (non-lawyer) citizens to maintain a system that will meet our needs as well (or better) as our current one had up until the last 30 years or so, about when the legal profession proliferated uncontrollably and the ENTITY that is the legal profession began tweaking the system to protect itself via legislation. I find it helpful to think of the legal community as a Living Organism (An organism's highest duty is to survive) where the individual cells go about doing their own thing and are not (necessarily) aware of the survival purpose of the Organism or how it manipulates its environment for its own purpose. Nor do they see their contribution to that manipulation or how it may damage others outside their environment. Incidentally, the "Organism Theory" (OT as I call it) works well to explain bureaucracies and other seemingly senseless or contradictory ENTITIES. I always got bogged down trying to make sense of them until I came up with the OT. I was focusing on the individual parts and missing "The Big Picture". + I don't particularly care for lawyers myself, even though I happen to be one, as are some of my very good friends. I find this statement to be totally asinine. Amoral by whose definition? It's not lawyers per se who are to blame for "making the rules for the rest of society to live by" (as though lawyers are not themselves a part of that society); it's the belief of the public that legislation is the answer to everything. There was a time when a person could learn the law simply by working as an apprentice to a practicing attorney to find out how to research judicial precedents and making a cogent argument before a judge and jury about equity and fairness, coupled with legal consistency. Not so any more. Law no longer consists of well-reasoned opinions based on the study of jurisprudence and justice. Everything is statutory (intricately detailed) or even more detailed in the form of administrative regulations. No lawyer can keep up with all the changes in the law. A person who wants to fight for justice finds himself trapped in a quagmire of meaningless verbiage. The problem is greater than the fact that laws are written and interpreted by men and women trained to speak and write in a particular style. The real problem is the microcosm mentality which overlooks the Big Picture, the historical perspective. That problem is endemic in every facet of American life today. In Texas the State Bar this year increased the mandatory continuing legal education requirement for ethics from one to three hours a year. That means we have to attend seminars analyzing the code of professional ethics, which are silly rules passed to control how lawyers deal with their clients. The reason this seems necessary to the powers that be is that most people don't know the difference between right and wrong; they don't have the vaguest idea about honesty, truth or fairness. So somebody decided to write rules that set up a standard of behavior. The more rules there are, the easier it is to selectively enforce them against enemies of those in power. Without that system of detailed statutory law, this contrived impeachment would not be taking place. The inquiry is not about morality, perjury, obstruction of "justice" or anything else other than raw power politics and gamesmanship. It is selective manipulation of rules of conduct to advance a particular agenda. If this inquiry was really concerned with justice, we'd be hearing about what went on at Mena. But then that would bring up the CIA's role in the crack-cocaine trafficking which was so easily swept under the rug in San Jose. Even with Lawrence Walsh's Iran-Contra report detailing the crimes of the Reagan-Bush cabinet, there was the Big Pardon, and then everyone forgot all about what really happened and who did what. The acts of those men were traitorous, and they were all let off. Those guys weren't lawyers; they were engineers, businessmen, and most of all securities peddlers. The word "attorney" simply means a person who acts on behalf of someone else; an agent. The biggest problem with lawyers is that they believe in the adversary process--that they represent the person who pays them to the best of their ability. Do you seriously think your proposal would keep the vested interests, who don't want their interests divested, from finding someone else to protect them? What's ironic about your entire article is that you're trying to do exactly what you're ranting against--writing insipid legislation that doesn't really address the evil but just further
Re: [CTRL] Court bans questions on Anne Frank veracity (Reuters)
-Caveat Lector- Gee, nurev (josh2), you have no end of tolerance for anything if that "anything" supports a certain faction, and no end of intolerance and abuse if that "anything" questions or criticizes a certain faction. Jim Condit Jr. On Friday, December 11, 1998 9:17 PM, nurev [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: -Caveat Lector- "Jim Condit Jr." wrote: -Caveat Lector- Is this a subject that falls under revisionism and therefore can only be discussed from one side on this list? Looks like we have a de facto state religion forming in Amsterdam and elsewhere -- together with is own "dogmas" that cannot be questioned without penalties and maybe jail time, Why don't you assume that the Dutch are at least as smart as you are. Their state may not be organized the way the USA is. They may not think it important to have a separation of church and state. You are so incredibally presumtuious to think that way. Furthermore, they have a far better understanding of the issue than you apparently do. And lastly, there is no ADL for racists to hide behind in Holland. eh? Jim Condit Jr. P.S. Upon re-reading the above questions sounds sarcastic, but it is meant to be serious. On Thursday, December 10, 1998 3:15 PM, Robert Tatman [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: -Caveat Lector- Court bans questions on Anne Frank veracity AMSTERDAM (Reuters) - A Dutch court on Wednesday slapped a ban on all publications questioning the authenticity of Jewish teenager Anne Frank's wartime diary, saying they insulted and offended Jews. The case, brought by Amsterdam's Anne Frank Foundation and the Anne Frank Fund in Basle, stems from the unsolicited distribution to Dutch libraries in 1992 of a book alleging Frank's father Otto was the real writer of her journal, which chronicles her family's years in hiding from the Nazis. snip The court ruled on Wednesday that Frank's diary should be seen as authentic and that it was unlawful to cast doubts on its veracity. It ruled that the publisher and authors of the book in question, ``Anne Frank: a critical approach'' were banned from distributing the book or any material of a similar content on pain of a 25,000 guilder fine per breach. ``The Anne Frank Foundation welcomes the court's judgement that the denial of the diary's authenticity and the accusations directed at Otto Frank are insulting and hurtful to Jews in general and to the Anne Frank Foundation and...Fund in particular,'' the foundation said in a statement. It said the book, by Frenchman Robert Faurisson and Belgian Siegfried Verbeke, had been published by a Belgian publisher specialising in so-called 'revisionist' literature which questions whether the Holocaust really happened. Similar trials have been held in Germany, the statement said. = Do you even know who Robert Faurisson is? Joshua2 DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Heads Up: Bill Clinton Is Finished
-Caveat Lector- "HEADS UP": BILL CLINTON IS FINISHED (CNNS, 12/11/98) -- Most valued CNNS (Conspiracy Nation News Service) source "Rhea Fortean" (pseudonym) has tilted the scales. This news service had planned to hold back on the following announcement, until a communique from "Rhea Fortean" persuaded us that we are not being premature. CNNS IS NOW CALLING IT THAT BILL CLINTON IS FINISHED. Today, Bill Clinton gave his final good-bye to America in an abrupt Rose Garden speech where he reiterated his apologies for misdeeds, both the implied specific and the unmentioned general. In the normal context, his speech made no sense, coming as it did synchronous to the House committee having approved the first article of impeachment. What an odd time to apologize (in the normal context)! But suppose Bill Clinton is about to disappear, in one manner or another. This news service cannot say whether a FAKED DEATH of Bill Clinton is on the horizon. We hesitate to mention the possibility, since by mentioning it we ourselves step into the realm of FATE and FUTURE: By stepping into the near future, do we somehow alter it??? And if by so doing we prevent the FAKED DEATH of Bill Clinton, is our action noble or ignominius? "NOT TO ALTER THE FUTURE" was the warning given by Lor-el. Yet that warning, in one fictional account, was finally ignored. Bob Schiffer, on the CBS Network News broadcast of 12/11/98, was all choked up -- really all choked up and not faking it -- when he reported on Bill Clinton's abrupt FINAL GOOD-BYE speech today in the Rose Garden. CBS News deemed that FINAL GOOD-BYE speech to be so important that they time-slotted it, in its entirety, into the brief time span of its nightly news broadcast. A key CNNS source, DOUBLE CODE-NAMED "Slim Bacall," had privately speculated that a FAKED DEATH of Bill Clinton was on the horizon, probably in Israel. This had been pondered upon. Now, with the eerie FINAL GOOD-BYE speech in the Rose Garden today; with the Bob Schiffer emotions; with the CBS News precious time-slot allocation; and finally, tilting the scales, "Rhea Fortean's" observations (below), CNNS must defy Lor-el's warning and possibly alter the future, although we do so wondering whether we are acting wisely. In closing, we include portions of "Rhea Fortean's" observations: I get a strong feeling that more Dems will vote for impeachment than people believe. Jay Servin of MSNBC thinks so too. The threats and arm-twisting is angering the Dems. The continued denials are making them angry. This last minute speech of BC with another apology may also make them more mad. LIke the DNA on the dress, no admissions are done unless he is made to do so. Also the trip to Israel --when they don't want him---that will cause security problems in Israel and may cause citizen's to be killed is another "in your face" act that some say will make Dems (and Mod Reps) mad. Heads up. I "feel" that a movement for resignation is in the works. There were calls for resignation in the Opening Remarks by both sides. Or references that because he didn't resign, we are here today. The strong remarks of what would happen if we had a trial...and then thrown in are remarks that if BC had any honor he would resign if the impeachment passes. I have heard/read remarks when Dems say don't be too sure it would fail in the Senate. Also remarks by the Dems give a clue. All say that impeachment will happen. They say of course, the impeachment by the Reps but they always say the impeachment as a done deal. It can't be a done deal w/out some Dems. Heads up. On Fox last night they talked that after Reno turns down the Ind Counsel on Ickes, she will resign. They said it was the talk of DC. Could it have anything to do with the investigation of her by the Jud Comte and her mob connections. As i said, things are going on in the Jud Comte with the Dems learning things that they are having BAD problems with. They have promised to tow the line to make the process look partisan but some are learning very disturbing things about BC. I just wonder with all the hints being given out if the impeachment vote won't be large instead of close and therefore, some Dems will ask for his resignation. An odd remark was made last night on the Fox news. Said that WH people were saying that BC is "still in denial"--pathetically so about what is about to happen to him. What does That sound like to you? I believe Schipper's remarks about their "being more" was a warning to BC and the Dems. I think that Critical Mass fits in here. Behind the scenes things are happening to impeach but
Re: [CTRL] THE HIDDEN TYRANNY
-Caveat Lector- Dear WHT, I agree with you on all points except your first. I'm focusing on a faction of the Jewish community who persecutes their own who disagree much more than those outside their community. But when an overwhelming amount of major media outlets are owned by this faction of Jews -- and when 50% of Clinton's major appointments have been from this faction of Jews, when 100% of his Supreme Court appointments have been from this faction of Jews, it is not comparable to bring up Presbyterians or Kiwanis Club members. Also, reading of the Talmud cause you to realize there is plenty unedifying in Judaism that does not find its counterpart in the other major religions. The extent of the brainwashing by the big media in America is shown by the fact that no other group could have attained one tenth of this influence without being fair game for widespread scrutiny and criticism --- but (more tribute to the brain-washing) those of us who dare to raise a peep of criticism are still the ones being widely scrutinzied and criticized. Oh, well . . . Jim Condit Jr. On Friday, December 11, 1998 1:55 PM, William Hugh Tunstall [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: -Caveat Lector- Why is it relevant that some of the supporters of President Clinton happen to be Jewish? Should we be concerned about the number of Presbyterians who condemn or support him? What exactly is the point? I think you will find that the American Jewish community is as equally divided on the merits of impeachment as everyone else is There are many Jewish critics of the President: Bruce Herschenson (LA commentator), Sam Wattenberg, the New Republic editors so what? Being upset about anti-semitic posts? Absolutely.. It's offensive to all of us on the list... just as J2's disparaging remarks about women were offensive. No. I'm not Jewish. And I don't think you are an anti-semite for criticizing Israel..or critizing people who happen to be Jewish. Go for it. There are historical reasons why Jews tend to be social activists.. or take a progressive stance on a variety of issues... It is a complex issue that would take us into Jewish conceptions of God and morality.. of what it is to be a human being (a mensch)... a study in itself. I would encourage you to read some of Martin Buber's works...or Spinoza. or Rabbi Hillel. And you will find that Judaism, like Islam and Christianity, or any other world religion, has much that a non-Jew would find admirable and beautiful Just as there are positive points about every other religious faith... On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Jim Condit Jr. wrote: -Caveat Lector- One could just as easily ask why this list attracts people who start name calling whenever something is posted which puts Jewish power structures in a bad light. Ben Freedman's work is well known and he was Jewish himself. I'm part Italian, but I don't take high racial offense when someone starts detailing the evils of the Mafia kingpins. The definitive works, in my judgement, on the tension between Jews and other Europeans throughout history is the work of Fr. Denis Fahey -- which was reviewed a few years back in Lloyd Miller's a-albionic newsletter. In it Fr. Fahey condemns the Nazis and the dominant Jewish leadership, pointing out that they are both naturalistic (anti-supernatural) forces. If you wonder why this stuff is rising everywhere on the internet, check out the insulting "defense" being given by Clinton's defenders (heavily Jews such as Woody Allen Body Double Alan Dershowitz and the vicious Margaret Holtzman, Charles Schumer, Lanny Davis, Rahm, Emanuel, Barnie Frank, Jerry Adler etc. etc. etc.). There are others who are not Jewish, but only the brain dead fail to see how over-represented this one small fraction of the population is in so many evil movements. There is much, much smaller group of articulate and, I would say, courageous Jews who are opposing this crowd, such as those who are helping to bring eveyone the Middle East Realities (MER) list on the web. I gather these intrepid souls are paid for their trouble to express their honest opinions with ostracism from many elite circles. Anyway, when the more alert of the Christian elements begin to react to try to salvage decency for the nation, then cries of "hater" and "anti-Semite" ring loudly and rise to the clouds. This slogan's "control" value is wearing thin, and the clique of Jews running the 4 networks blew the "anti-Semite" charge when they tried to pin it on Pat Buchanan after he won in the New Hampshire, 1996 GOP primary. . . . I absolutely condemn Nazism, but I also condemn Jewish supremicists who pretend to be "just loyal Americans" when they so obviously are agents of influence for Israel and proponents of every anti-Christian and destructive policy that comes along, including the current campaign to save Clinton by saying perjury, lying under
[CTRL] Indoctrinating our Kids
-Caveat Lector- Fwd. Gavin. I highly recommend reading any of Gatto's writings (I believe he has a collection in a book something like "Dumbing Down..."). He was voted Teacher of the Year in NY. In his speech he mentioned his "loathing" and that he actively sabotaged the system whenever necessary to get his students what they needed. As I recall, he still received Teacher of the Year the next year:) Lauren Scheffers The Public School Nightmare: Why fix a system designed to destroy individual thought? by John Taylor Gatto http://www.netizen.org/Progressive/proglib/gato.html snip "...In another article Gatto confesses to being 'the 7-lesson schoolteacher.' To keep his job as a teacher he is compelled to teach the seven lessons: 1.Confusion. Gatto admits that everything he teaches is out of context. 2.Class position. Children must know their place and stay in the class where they belong. "The children are numbered so that if any get away they can be returned to the right class." 3.Indifference. "Nothing important is ever finished in my class nor in any class I know of." 4.Emotional dependency. Gatto says that he teaches children to surrender their will to the chain of command, using "stars and red checks, smiles and frowns, prizes, honors and isgraces." 5.Intellectual dependency. The most important lesson. Children must wait for the expert authority to make all the important decisions, to tell them what to study. There is no place for curiosity, only conformity. 6.Provisional self-esteem. Because it is so difficult to make self-confident spirits conform, children must be taught that their self-respect depends on expert opinion. They must be constantly tested, evaluated, judged, graded, and reported on by certified officials. Self-evaluation is irrelevant - "people must be told what they are worth." 7.You can't hide. Children are always watched. No privacy. People can't be trusted. "According to Gatto, these are the consequences of the seven lessons: The private Self is almost non-existent; children develop a superficial personality borrowed from TV shows. Desperate dependence. Unease with intimacy or candor; dislike for parents; no real close friends; lust replaces love. Indifference to the adult world; very little curiosity about anything; boredom. A poor sense of the future; consciousness limited to the present. Cruelty to each other. Striking materialism. The expectation to fail; the idea that success has to be stolen. "Gatto says it takes about 100 hours for most children to learn the three Rs (reading, writing, and arithmetic). He also says: After years of wrestling the obstacles standing between children and education I came to believe that government monopoly schools, compulsion and all, are structurally unreformable. They cannot function if their central myths are abandoned, so no amount of tinkering will correct what is wrong, although the danger is that tinkering can make these places more cosmetic. They are corrupt: like a rotten pear they have lost integrity and cannot be made whole. "John Taylor Gatto's two books, The Exhausted School and Dumbing Us Down, are available via mail-order, postpaid at $12.50 each, by writing to 235 W. 76th Street, New York, NY 10023, USA" One had to cram all this stuff into one's mind, whether one liked it or not. This coercion had such a deterring effect that, after I had passed the final examination, I found the consideration of any scientific problems distasteful to me for an entire year... It is in fact nothing short of a miracle that the modern methods of instruction have not yet entirely strangled the holy curiosity of inquiry; for this delicate little plant, aside from stimulation, stands mainly in need of freedom; without this it goes to wrack and ruin without fail. It is a very grave mistake to think that the enjoyment of seeing and searching can be promoted by means of coercion and a sense of duty. --Albert Einstein A general State education is a mere contrivance for moulding people to be exactly like one another; and the mould in which it casts them is that which pleases the predominant power in the government, whether this be a monarch, a priesthood, an aristocracy, or the majority of the existing generation; in proportion as it is efficient and successful, it establishes a despotism over the mind, leading by natural tendency to one over the
Re: [CTRL] Court bans questions on Anne Frank veracity (Reuters)
-Caveat Lector- Oh, Jerry Harp, what a disgustingly hypocritical post! Would you be writing the same sentence is the "Dutch" court had but a ban on anyone publishing something supporting the authenticity of the Anne Frank Diary ??? I think not. Jim Condit Jr. On Friday, December 11, 1998 9:53 AM, Gerald Harp [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/10/98 3:15:46 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: AMSTERDAM (Reuters) - A Dutch court on Wednesday slapped a ban on all publications questioning the authenticity of Jewish teenager Anne Frank's wartime diary, saying they insulted and offended Jews. Now maybe the simpering whiners on this list who bleat about curbs on their hate speech will realize how good they have it. Jerry Harp DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Question about list Rules
-Caveat Lector- Whoa, Teo1000 -- that's a bombshell -- I mean the whole list being limited to 100 posts. I think the List Manager should add that to little explanatory paragraph at the bottom of each post -- for I had no idea. If that's the case, then I will quit posting "debate" type responses and limit to research related stuff. Although, quite frankly, the list seems to be more debate than research tips (that will make nurev happy!). That's why I joined in. Jim Condit Jr. On Friday, December 11, 1998 9:55 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: -Caveat Lector- Kris is the one who referred people to the site in question (Nizkor)which debunks much anti-jew propaganda particularly the holocaust revisionists. This list is limited to 100 posts per day total, for all members. Teo1000 DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] The Holocaust
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/11/98 10:16:42 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: a. ) a neologism -- term that came into use only in the late 1960's around the time that President Carter created a "Presidential Commission on The Holocaust". Your own sophistry is clear enough, a long structured series that adds up to obfuscation. Fortunately for us, your ignorance is glaring. Jerry harp DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] THE HIDDEN TYRANNY
-Caveat Lector- These guys are s easy. It doesn't take much to flush them out. Joshua2 == "Jim Condit Jr." wrote: -Caveat Lector- One could just as easily ask why this list attracts people who start name calling whenever something is posted which puts Jewish power structures in a bad light. Ben Freedman's work is well known and he was Jewish himself. I'm part Italian, but I don't take high racial offense when someone starts detailing the evils of the Mafia kingpins. The definitive works, in my judgement, on the tension between Jews and other Europeans throughout history is the work of Fr. Denis Fahey -- which was reviewed a few years back in Lloyd Miller's a-albionic newsletter. In it Fr. Fahey condemns the Nazis and the dominant Jewish leadership, pointing out that they are both naturalistic (anti-supernatural) forces. If you wonder why this stuff is rising everywhere on the internet, check out the insulting "defense" being given by Clinton's defenders (heavily Jews such as Woody Allen Body Double Alan Dershowitz and the vicious Margaret Holtzman, Charles Schumer, Lanny Davis, Rahm, Emanuel, Barnie Frank, Jerry Adler etc. etc. etc.). There are others who are not Jewish, but only the brain dead fail to see how over-represented this one small fraction of the population is in so many evil movements. There is much, much smaller group of articulate and, I would say, courageous Jews who are opposing this crowd, such as those who are helping to bring eveyone the Middle East Realities (MER) list on the web. I gather these intrepid souls are paid for their trouble to express their honest opinions with ostracism from many elite circles. Anyway, when the more alert of the Christian elements begin to react to try to salvage decency for the nation, then cries of "hater" and "anti-Semite" ring loudly and rise to the clouds. This slogan's "control" value is wearing thin, and the clique of Jews running the 4 networks blew the "anti-Semite" charge when they tried to pin it on Pat Buchanan after he won in the New Hampshire, 1996 GOP primary. . . . I absolutely condemn Nazism, but I also condemn Jewish supremicists who pretend to be "just loyal Americans" when they so obviously are agents of influence for Israel and proponents of every anti-Christian and destructive policy that comes along, including the current campaign to save Clinton by saying perjury, lying under oath, and felonies are suddenly hard to define or discern. Schumer and the whole crowd of super-zionists would send 1,000,000 American boys to their death to defend the anti-Christian state of Israel if necessary, without batting an eye; and myself and a growing number Americans just aren't going to remain silent while complete the hi-jacking of this nation. As one elderly gentlemen I knew asked years ago in rhetorical fashion, "Who are these people who want to be above criticism? Jim Condit Jr. On Wednesday, December 09, 1998 12:21 PM, Gerald Harp [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: -Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/9/98 10:14:39 AM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Mr. Freedman's information contains suppressed facts, including exactly how the US was tricked into WW-I -- due to Zionist fraud: If this isn't the official anti-Semite list of the US, why does this sort of mindless hate based baloney keep appearing? What is it about this list that attracts the darker elements? Don't get me wrong. I don't think this character hates the Jews. He just hates. The Jews and blacks are both preferred targets by these types since they are few in number and because it becomes tiresome, to healthy people, to continually answer baseless charges and suppositions. One encounters many interesting and provocative notions but it also requires one to comb thru a certain amount of psychic decay. This deterioration is not good, it is especially not good because it is obvious that RoadsEnd puts an enormous amount of work into keeping it lively and interesting. I have an idea. Why don't you out there who like to think of yourself as neo- fascists hold your lying scheming tongues for a few millennia? Jerry Harp DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substance-not soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
[CTRL] Fwd: [priory-of-sion] Re: Waiting for Giovanni
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Seeker1) I know that there are a lot of people (lately) which claim that they are PoS members or something like that and I am as skeptic about this as you. I am not even sure the PoS exists. But if you or me are contacted by, or could possibly make contact with, somebody who claims to be a PoS member how can you be sure that this is really true? Ask them who was present at the cutting of the Elm. I'm still waiting for the answer to this question. This event in 1188 was supposedly the most important event in the organization's history - its separation from the original Knights Templars. You would think they would have some records on such an important event. To this date, neither DM nor the Count has answered this question, but I suspect that there is a possibility that neither knows the answer because they are only peripherally involved - the Count with an adjunct neo-templar order, DM with a lower order. You could also ask them how many degrees the PoS has - does it have 5, 7, or 9? How many members? Different published accounts have given contradictory information. You could ask Sr. Giovanni the criteria for membership, since once again, whether membership is voluntary or hereditary seems to be somewhat contradictory, based on the published statutes. Most of all, you might ask Sr. Giovanni their address and phone number, since the one that appears in French records is false. Of course, a secret society would not give you that information by definition, but it's worth asking. Again, the 1956 statutes claim that the PoS is NOT a secret society, so I can't see why they SHOULDN'T be able to tell you. Most importantly, you might ask him who the current grandmaster/nautonnier is, since DM does not know who the current one is, and the Count has yet to answer that question. Ask him if the two GM's that succeeded Plantard were a Msr. Andre Barbeau and a Msr. Carl LaFleur. DM claims the Count has confirmed this information, but I've yet to see him state this so publicly. You might also ask him if he knows the whereabouts of the latter; DM would like to know. Ask him if there is currently a schism within the order and what the parameters of it are. Ask him if he also believes that the 'holy bloodline' began in the Middle East in 3500 BCE, as this is what the Count has told us. Ask him about the fleur-de-lys "seal" of the PoS. Ask him about ties to the Swiss Grand Loge Alpina, Alpha Galates, the Hieron du Val D'Or, and the Cercle Dagobert. Ask him just how many damn parchments Sauniere found, what was on them, and what he found by deciphering them. Information on this has also been contradictory. Verifiable, reasonable answers to those questions are a good place to begin. What kind of questions can you ask or what tests can you do to see if you have a true live PoS member on your hands? As long as we don't know how to seperate the real members from the fantasy members whe will never come any further. Maybe Steve "Seeker1" Mitzach can answer these questions as his goals sometimes seems to be to act as a kind of PoS member detector. Try and get them to give you answers that are a) verifiable b) reasonable c) not self-contradictory and d) jibe with existing accounts of the PoS. I've had mixed results with the Count, slightly better results with DM, but ultimately, neither of them seems to really be part of the "inner circle" of the European Priory since they both live here in the U.S. It occurs to me, of course, that one possible barrier to participation by European members might be the fact that they don't speak English and only speak French? (Do we have any French speakers on our list?) This is because a uncle of me is initiated in an Italian secret society which has some relations with the Carbonari and some other secret societies. Donato, would you describe the goals of the Carbonari as political or revolutionary? Or are modern Carbonari lodges more ceremonial? Yours, Steve Mizrach [aka Seeker1] TechnoCulturalist, CyberAnthropologist, HyperMediac, AnthroFuturist Home Page URL: http://www.clas.ufl.edu/users/seeker1/cyberanthro/newhome.html "Why? Why not?" -- Timothy Leary's last words Help support ONElist, while generating interest in your product or service. ONElist has a variety of advertising packages. Visit http://www.onelist.com/advert.html for more information.
[CTRL] Fwd: Konformist: Secret Dope: December 1998
Please send as far and wide as possible. Thanks, Robert Sterling Editor, The Konformist http://www.konformist.com Secret Dope: December 1998 The following are rumors passed to Robalini. They may be real, they may be false. Make up your own mind. The LA Free Press may have an upcoming article with further details on Oswald LeWinter. For those unaware, Oswald LeWinter has been covered in past issues of Conspiracy Nation. He was arrested in Europe trying to sell documents to the father of Dodi Al-Fayed, supposedly proving that Princess Diana was murdered. It appears the name Oswald LeWinter has turned up in research in connection with other matters, relevant to the Kenn Thomas/Jim Keith book, "The Octopus." Speculation is rampant that Klinton is about to "disappear" -- supposedly killed but really still alive. If so, this wouldn't be the first such political "death" of the decade: there is some evidence to suggest that the Yitzhak Rabin assassination was in fact no assassination at all, and that the extra amount of time it took his driver to get to the hospital was to drop him off. Henry Kissinger was one of his best friends, yet missed his "funeral". The excuse Henry K. gave for missing the funeral is that he couldn't catch a plane, an absurd claim since Mr. Kissinger could most certainly arrange a plane to anywhere in 30 seconds (or less.) At the time of the funeral, he was in Hong Kong, the same place where some claim to have seen Rabin since his "death". I expect Klinton to hide out in Brazil: they've got the best chicks. Visit the Klub Konformist at Yahoo!: http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/klubkonformist More trinkets than the 1996 Olympics. Fewer lines than the Goodwill Games ESPN gear, SportsCenter gear, NBA NHL MLB NCAA NFL gear, Memorabilia http://ads.egroups.com/click/147/1 Free Web-based e-mail groups -- http://www.eGroups.com
[CTRL] Fwd: Ex DEA Agent Tells All in High Times
THE EXPERT WITNESS RADIO SHOW WBAI 99.5 FM, New York City rebroadcast KPFK, 90.7 FM, WEDNESDAYS Los Angeles (after midnight on the Roy Tuckman Show) 212-209-2970 To: Listeners of The Expert Witness Show: Re: "HIGH TIMES" Magazine, January Edition now on stands. For all those who enjoy the Expert Witness Radio show there is a really interesting article entitled "ESCAPE FROM THE DEA, Ex Agent Tells All" in this month's edition of "High Times," that we can guarantee will draw abolutely no comment from mainstream media. When you read it you'll see why.
[CTRL] Judgment Day
-Caveat Lector- From wsws.org WSWS : News Analysis : North America : Starr Investigation Judiciary Committee Republican Bob Barr spoke at white supremacist convention By Barry Grey 12 December 1998 A spokesman for Rep. Bob Barr (R-Ga.) acknowledged Thursday that Barr was a keynote speaker earlier this year at a convention of the Council of Conservative Citizens, a white supremacist organization that views interracial marriage as "white genocide." Barr, who began calling for Clinton's impeachment in 1997, has been the most outspoken proponent of impeachment on the House Judiciary Committee. In recent weeks he has appeared with increasing frequency on network news and interview programs. According to an article in the December 11 issue of the Washington Post, the congressman spoke at the Council of Conservative Citizens' semiannual convention in Charleston, South Carolina on June 6. His presence was cited by Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz, who testified last month against the impeachment of Clinton at a House Judiciary Committee hearing. Last week Dershowitz wrote to Judiciary Committee Chairman Henry Hyde, stating, "Congressman Barr, who was fully aware of this organization's racist and anti-Semitic agenda, not only gave the keynote address to the CCC's national board, but even allowed himself to be photographed literally embracing one of their national directors." Barr sent a letter to Hyde in response to Dershowitz's charge, in which he said Dershowitz's "accusations are unfounded and deplorable." He went on to accuse Dershowitz of "condoning the use of racism in court," citing Dershowitz's role as part of the defense team in the O. J. Simpson case. Hyde has made no statement on Barr's ties to this racist and fascist organization, nor have they been reported by the major news media. But according to the Washington Post, the Internet web site of the Council of Conservative Citizens portrays the "white race" as under siege. The December 11 Post article quotes a column on the site by one "H. Millard" which says, in part: "There too is the way to get rid of the world of whites. Convince them to mix their few genes with the genes of the many. Genocide via the bedroom chamber is as long lasting as genocide via war." The revelation of Barr's ties to white supremacist forces lifts the lid on a fact of political life well known within the Washington establishment and the media--that a significant section of the Republican Party has links to ultra-right and fascistic groups. Barr's role as the most insistent campaigner within Congress for the removal of Clinton underscores the central role of fascistic elements in the political conspiracy that has culminated in the impeachment proceedings. See Also: Political coup gathers strength Clinton's groveling emboldens right-wing push for impeachment [12 December 1998] Copyright 1998 World Socialist Web Site All rights reserved WSWS : News Analysis : North America : Starr Investigation Political coup gathers strength Clintons groveling emboldens right-wing push for impeachment By Barry Grey 12 December 1998 The drive of right-wing forces within the Republican Party to leverage a sex scandal into a political coup reached a high point in last week's House Judiciary Committee hearings. The extraordinary proceedings culminated Friday in the passage of articles of impeachment only minutes after Clinton made a groveling appeal on nationwide television for Republicans to censure, rather than impeach him. An ominous and almost unreal aura pervaded the House chamber throughout the impeachment hearings. Lawyers for the president and the Democratic minority, buttressed by legal scholars, historians, federal prosecutors and veterans of the Watergate-era Judiciary Committee, argued against removing the president for concealing an extra-marital relationship, while an impervious Republican majority moved in lockstep to vote articles of impeachment. Washington Post columnist Tom Shales aptly described the scene as a group of scholars arguing with a lynch mob. White House spokesmen combined cringing admissions of Clinton's "reprehensible" actions and statements of remorse with pleas to Republican "moderates" to support a censure motion and oppose impeachment when the issue comes before the House next week. Their entreaties were topped only by Clinton himself, who was abject in his brief White House appearance. As Clinton ended his remarks, reporters demanded to know if he would resign if impeached by the House, and 10 minutes later the Judiciary Committee, on a strictly party-line vote, passed the first of two articles charging him with perjury. Over two days of hearings, Clinton's lawyers presented a detailed critique of Independent Counsel Kenneth Starr's impeachment referral which exposed its biased and contrived character. On Thursday the counsel for the Judiciary
[CTRL] Fwd: Patriot Missiles and President Clinton Shipped to Israel
From the Offices of: Rumor Mill News Agency The Uncensored National Rumor E-mail Address: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Is There Evidence That A Missile Might Shoot Down Air Force One? Keep Your Friends and Family Off That Plane!! December 11, 1998 Aptos,CA (RMnews)-- President Clinton, leaves an uncertain fate behind as he departs Saturday morning on a trip to Israel. The officially stated reason for the trip is to bolster the faltering Wye River peace accords that were signed by President Netanyahu and Yassar Arafat last month. The peace talks which were held on the Wye River Plantation, about an hour out of Washington, DC, were brokered by President Clinton. When the peace talks ended, it appeared that the President had been successful in bringing peace to the middle east. However, the peace accords starting falling apart the moment they were over. Now President Clinton. In the middle of impeachment hearings, is traveling to Israeli to try to put the peace accords back in place. The President is taking about 20 members of Congress with him to Israel, including 3 Republican moderates who have not yet decided how they will vote on impeachment, and will surely be strong armed on the trip to vote against impeachment. Back in Washington, the Democrats have issued orders that all of the House of Representatives MUST be in Washington for the impeachment vote. Travel, sickness, family emergencies and hospital stays will not matter. All Democratic members have been ordered by the White House to be on the floor for the impeachment vote. A battery of Patriot Missiles has been shipped to Israel and will be in place before the President arrives. Pentagon Spokesman, Ken Bacon, (the same man who authorized release of Linda Tripp's private defense personnel file) was vague on the reason the Patriot missiles were shipped to Israel at this particular time. Does the military or our intelligence agencies have information that the President's plane might be in danger in Israel? Could there be people who believe that Saddam Hussein might try to shoot down Air Force One? And if this kind of intelligence has been released, how can the President's handlers justify his going to Israel at this particular time? RMNews Conspiracy theories: 1. The President never lets anyone know which plane he is going to fly in. At one time, when he was afraid that members of the United States military might sabotage Air force One, he was actually letting a double fly on board AF1 and he was flying in the back-seat of a Navy fighter. Could the President be planning to set up the 3 Republican members of the House, and let them be shot down on Air Force 1? 2. Who else is going to be on board that plane? Are there any potential grand jury witnesses, like Harold Ickes, who are going to be on board? would the crash of the airplane put all the investigations behind him, just like the crash of the Ron Brown plane in Yugoslavia, put all of the Ron Brown investigations behind the President. If Ron Brown had lived, he would surely have provided, according to his own words, evidence that the President had profited from illegal gas line business deals. Ron Brown was also the head of the Democratic National Committee at the time the Chinese money was flowing in. What could Ron Brown have told us about the president's involvement in this? Who is leaving Saturday morning on board Air Force One with the President? Whose voice could be silenced if AF1 is shot down by a missile? 3. The impeachment hearings would be forgotten if AF1 was shot down. 4. Could the President be planning to fake his death and disappear so he doesn't end up in prison or drawn and quartered like the Canadians want to do to him. If you haven't heard about this angle yet, you need to start reading about the Arkansas blood scandal. governor Clinton okayed a scheme to sell tainted prisoner blood to Canada. Now Canadians are contracting Hepatitis C and HIV. They are ready to draw are quarter our President. I wonder what would happen to the President if he visited Canada instead of Israel right now? If the President is afraid that more and more information is about to come out on him that will destroy his reputation in history forever, maybe he is getting ready to fake his death. 5. If the President fakes his death, who will be the major winner? Hillary, of course. The roar of the public will demand that Al Gore appoint her as vice President. Soon the Gore scandals will force President Gore to resign, and then we will have President Hillary. She will be reelected by a landslide in the year 2000. There is virtually nothing that could stop this landslide vote. 6. If the real plan for the Israeli visit is to fake the death of the President so Hillary can become President, then someone better warn Bill to put aside some insurance policies to insure that Hillary doesn't see to it that he death is not faked? In other words, if Hillary is better off with him dead than alive, do you
Re: [CTRL] Clinton
-Caveat Lector- you seem to have an uncommon interest in this. do you get paid for your stupidity; if not, it is really a waste. this is the attitude that will get you paid; but you can't go out much and never, never express an opinion in public. if you do, i have a psychic prediction for you ... guess what that is. Knyuck, Knyuck, Knyuck. sirhC [EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes: Other than the published case, how many dozens more women has chester grabbed? What was clinton's "bimbo" control staff set up for? CLINTON IS A PIMPLE ON THE FACE OF AMERICA !!! POP IT NOT BEFORE IT INFECTS THE NATION !!! I ask every judge, congressman or senator with a daughter ... IF Clinton would have had a body guard bring your daughter or grand daughter to his hotel room, grabbed her by the crotch and pulled out his for her to suck, what would you do to him? If any man dared to have a government cop bring clinton's daughter to their hotel room, grab her by the crotch and pull out his ... for her to suck, what would the clinton's do to that man? Chester the molester holding the office of the president? DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Lawyers Unconstitutional Control of the Nation
-Caveat Lector- At 11:41 PM 12/11/98 -0600, Linda Minor wrote: -Caveat Lector- ---snip --- There was a time when a person could learn the law simply by working as an apprentice to a practicing attorney to find out how to research judicial precedents and making a cogent argument before a judge and jury about equity and fairness, coupled with legal consistency. Not so any more. Washington State has an apprenticeship program and I believe there are at least one or two other states which provide alternatives routes to the bar. Barb DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] THE HIDDEN TYRANNY
-Caveat Lector- Please spare us your self-pity, it's just ignorance and its wake. Om K In a message dated 12/11/98 11:56:26 PM, you wrote: who dare to raise a peep of criticism are still the ones being widely scrutinzied and criticized. Oh, well . . . Jim Condit Jr. - Aloha, He'Ping, Om, Shalom, Salaam. Em Hotep, Peace Be, Omnia Bona Bonis, All My Relations. Adieu, Adios, Aloha. Amen. Roads End Kris DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Judgment Ennui
-Caveat Lector- From Washington (DC) Post Rest of World Yawns Over Clinton Drama By Charles Trueheart Washington Post Foreign Service Saturday, December 12, 1998; Page A15 PARIS, Dec. 11 As the first vote on a U.S. presidential impeachment in nearly a quarter-century loomed in Washington, the rest of the world was barely stirring from a slumber of indifference and ennui. "We know how the story is going to come out: Clinton won't lose his job," declared Benoit Laporte, news editor of France's all-news television channel LCI, as he explained why most of the French news media were devoting only perfunctory coverage to the conclusion of this saga. "If Americans aren't interested, why should I be interested?" That elementary grasp of the conventional wisdom in Washington was reflected in slender to nonexistent coverage of the story around the world in recent days and weeks. Five of Russia's leading daily newspapers today ignored the story. None of the major Russian television news broadcasts this evening even mentioned it. The tepid public interest suggested that the November midterm elections, widely regarded as having saved President Clinton's political hide, had lulled global opinion into thinking the drama was over. And constitutional procedures and legislative wrangling were, to far-flung spectators, understandably less titillating than the warm-up of the Monica S. Lewinsky revelations and the Kenneth W. Starr report. Kenyans, for instance, were showing far less curiosity about the impeachment process than they did about the salacious details that prompted it. Anne Wambui of Nairobi said she paid pretty close attention to "the trial on Monica." But, she said, "after that, I lost interest." In China, too, the autumn fascination with Clinton's troubles has cooled. A few months ago, the Chinese appeared fascinated that Americans expect their political leaders to at least try to adhere to the law. Chinese would also often express amazement that a U.S. political leader might be forced out of office by a congressional vote, rather than a hidden political struggle. Chinese magazines ran dozens of stories about Clinton's sex life. Although officially banned as "pornography," a pirated version of the Starr report found an avid market. But those days are over. "Is that case still going on?" said Wang Guoqiang, a bartender in the southern city of Shenzhen, as he served an American a draft beer recently. "Didn't the Democrats win something recently and the whole thing was finished?" The central European press seems bored, if not exhausted, by the impeachment proceedings. Gazeta Wyborcza, Poland's leading daily, had no report or commentary on the matter this morning. And other dailies in Poland, the Czech Republic and Hungary had only brief, straightforward news reports. The region's one lengthy report today, on Slovak public radio, was marked by a tone of bewilderment that impeachment was still a possibility. Elsewhere it was much the same. "For us, it has been little more than background noise," said Diana Hanna, a teacher in Caracas, Venezuela. "People know something is going on with President Clinton, but they are not paying attention to the details. I think most of us think it is silly . . . and there have been other more important things for us to worry about." Germans over the past year were amused, mortified and ultimately disgusted by the Starr inquiry. But now that the case is reaching its conclusion in Congress, it is evoking a nationwide yawn. The obscure reports and analyses that are making their way into the public eye, in Germany as elsewhere in Europe, have been largely critical of the Republican Party and the major American media for trying to hound a national leader from office for offenses that are considered routine habits among politicians in the cynical Old World. "This process against Clinton has gotten totally out of control," lamented Ulf Goettges in the Berliner Zeitung, Berlin's leading newspaper. "The Grand Old Party needs a Grand Old Leader who can guide it through a therapeutic course until these politicians understand how to do their work." "Don't the House Republicans remember what happened to them a month ago in the election?" asked Sky News anchor Jeremy Thompson in Britain, where the media have continued daily to follow the case against Clinton. Britain's national newspapers have struggled to explain why the case has come to this point, and most have taken the line that the charges against the president are disturbing but do not warrant removing him from office. With predictions that the full House, at least, might vote for impeachment, the media are perplexed. David Joseph Amukoye, a taxi driver waiting for a fare on Jomo Kenyatta Avenue, Nairobi's sun-splashed main street, asked: "Why couldn't he just declare that he's marrying a second wife, so that the case would be between him and the first wife instead of between him and the public?" Rueben Ondego
[CTRL] Why Waco? Investigating CS Gas
-Caveat Lector- This Message Posted to APFN Message Board: http://www.insidetheweb.com/messageboard/mbs.cgi?acct=mb77532 Subject: Why Waco? Investigating CS Gas Comment received! The following information has been sent to the HOLLIS Plus administrator. Thank you for your suggestion. - email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] name: APFN comments: I am looking for the email address of Alan A. Stone, M.D. Faculty of law and Faculty of Medicine, Harvard University I would like to receive a copy of report written by above; Report and Recommendations Concerning and Handling of Branch Davidians Standoff in Waco Texas - submitted Nov 10, 1993. Is this report available on the Internet? Is it possible to have a copy of this file emailed to me at: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Thanking you in advance. American Patriot Friends Network - [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- HOLLIS Plus Home | Search for HOLLIS Plus Resources == [APFN] Why Waco? - Investigating CS GAS The above report was addressed: = Stone Report Page 1 of 13 To Deputy Attorney General Philip Heymann Report and Recommendations Concerning the Handling Of Incidents Such As the Branch Davidians Standoff in Waco Texas Panelist Allan A. Stone, M.D. Touroff-Glueck Professor Of Psychiatry and Law Faculty of Law and Faculty of Medicine Harvard University Submitted November 10, 1993 === [APFN] I will be quoting from this report and will label extracts as "[Stone Report]" hereafter. Lets start with quoting a APFN FAX ON APRIL 19TH 1993, == DATE: APRIL 19, 1993 - 1600 PST TO: TEXAS RANGER, APFN FRIENDS (FAX NETWORK) OTHER CONCERNED CITIZENS FROM: MIKE SPEZIO - APFN NODE L.V. - FAX: 702-566-1447 SEND IN THE TEXAS RANGERS NOW PRESERVE "EVIDENCE" IF ANY NO WITNESSES, NO TRIAL GRAND JURY CONVEDED "ON-SITE" NOW !!! FIRST SAID "SPOTTED 2 CULT MEMBERS SETTING FIRES OUTSIDE AT 2 CORNERS OF THE BUILDING" ...THEN SAID "SNIPERS OBSERVED FIRE BEING SET INSIDE BY DAVIDIANS THROUGH HIGH POWER SCOPES ON THEIR RIFLES "CNN". "FBI PAINT" "THIS WASN'T AN INVASION, TROOPS NEVER LEFT THE VEHICLES (TANKS TRANSPORTS. RICKS/NBC "THEY WERE USING NON-LETHAL MEANS" "CRUSHING OF A SATANIC REBELLION". CBS.. "WACO HOSPITAL WAS TOLD TO IMPLIMENT THEIR DISASTER PLAN AND TO EXPECT WOUNDED". WHY HAS A TANK FLYING AN "ALABAMA BATTLE FLAG"? PRESIDENT CLINTON MADE NO OBJECTION TO PLAN, HE ACCEPTS FULL RESPONSIBILITY. ABC/"THEY FIRED OVER 200 SHOTS AT OUR OFFICERS, AND WE DID NOT RETURN FIRE". RICKS/ABC SEND IN TEXAS RANGER, GRAND JURY, NOW!!! BEFORE EVIDENCE IS TAMPERED, PLANTED, OR OTHERWISE ALTERED... SUPERVISE BATF/FBI IN INVESTIGATION... "I WAS OUT THERE, AND HEARD AMMUNITION EXPLOSIVES GOING OFF... WE HAVE TO WAIT TILL IT (RUBBLE) COOLS OFF TO CONDUCT A SEARCH FOR BODIES" RICKS/NBC. 20 MINUTES BEFORE FIRE AT PRESS CONFERENCE EXORESSED "WE'RE USING NON-PYROTECNIC CS GAS" (HE KNEW THERE WAS GOING TO BE A FIRE AND "SET THE STAGE" TO DENY INVOLVMENT IN THE FIRE" CAMERAS WERE RUNNING "LIVE", IF YOU SAW FIST LIVE REPORTS SEE HOW MUCH OF THE FOOTAGE IS REPEATED AFTER CENSORING... WHERE IS VIDEO OF "2.OUTSIDE, SETTING FIRE" I'M SURE NOTHING, NOTHING MOVES ON THAT CHURCH PROPERTY, WITHOUT BEING VIDEO TAPED. REPORTED ONLY 8 LIVED... FOR ONCE I HOPE FBI IS WRONG ON THIS POINT, AND RIGHT ABOUT THE "UNDERGROUND BUNKER SCHOOL BUS" DEAD MEN TELL NO TALES... ONE P.O.'d PATRIOT === [APFN] Bob Ricks, FBI Agent In Charge, Public Relations. Mr. Ricks also make this statement on that day during news conference; "When we found the women and children in the cinder block area we put in massive gas to try and bring them out". We were most concerned about the women and children." I have this on video tape. I received a Federal Express on April 20th that was 6 hours long of raw satellite coverage of CNN from Waco of APRIL 19TH. This tape covers the gassing and fire of Mt. Carmel. It also covers the first news releases from the FBI. Much of this video Has never been played except when it was live that first day. Bob Ricks Is hq'd out of the FBI office in Oklahoma City. Bob Ricks and James Jamar Are both graduates of Baylor Univ, Waco, Texas. Remember Williams Sessions then Director
Re: [CTRL] The Wonderful Wizard of Oz
-Caveat Lector-
On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, Sno0wl wrote:
The very best of children's literature seems to resonate with
"something" we already know--rather than imposing or teaching
external principles.
The main reason being, the very best of children's literature did not
start out as children's literature...it was turned into such by the
Victorians and the Edwardians, and solidified in that genre by Disney...
But if one is lucky enough to get one's hand on a very early copy of,
say, Grimm's, one easily can see that what got termed 'fairytales' were
adaptations of earlier folktales, stories told around the fireside for
the whole village, adults included...
Those original stories contained quite a bit of sex and violence, which
got sanitized in the Victorian era, and all but excised in the 20th
century...
But they were stories which reflected the psyches of the listeners...
and dealt with matters both sacred and profane, with day-to-day life and
with matters of the spirit...and so it is no wonder that they still
'resonate' with us, as that is exactly what they were designed to do, no
matter what era they were told...the issues these stories dealt with are
issues we still deal with today...love, politics, day-to-day survival
(and the quest to raise oneself above one's station), seemingly random
events/disasters and the search for meaning in same...
And yes, these stories were a convenient way to present the moral
precepts of the dominant religion, whether one prayed to Thor or
Yahweh...
I think one can only see this as dangerous or "evil" if one is
entirely wedded to a religious dogma that considers the ideas
in these stories heretical.
The irony is, the Christian church latched on to many of the pre-existing
legends and gave them a Christian veneer...others were developed later,
DURING Christian rule, and presented esoteric Christian precepts in a
guise that was palatable and understandable to the illiterate masses
(including the aristocracy, most of whom were illiterate throughout the
Medeival era...)
June
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/' '\
jgs
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revcoal AT connix DOT com
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==
CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic
screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters
and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.
Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
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[CTRL] Fw: Heads Up: Bill Clinton Is Finished
-Caveat Lector- -Original Message- From: Brian Redman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.activism Date: Friday, December 11, 1998 11:51 PM Subject: "Heads Up": Bill Clinton Is Finished "HEADS UP": BILL CLINTON IS FINISHED (CNNS, 12/11/98) -- Most valued CNNS (Conspiracy Nation News Service) source "Rhea Fortean" (pseudonym) has tilted the scales. This news service had planned to hold back on the following announcement, until a communique from "Rhea Fortean" persuaded us that we are not being premature. CNNS IS NOW CALLING IT THAT BILL CLINTON IS FINISHED. Today, Bill Clinton gave his final good-bye to America in an abrupt Rose Garden speech where he reiterated his apologies for misdeeds, both the implied specific and the unmentioned general. In the normal context, his speech made no sense, coming as it did synchronous to the House committee having approved the first article of impeachment. What an odd time to apologize (in the normal context)! But suppose Bill Clinton is about to disappear, in one manner or another. This news service cannot say whether a FAKED DEATH of Bill Clinton is on the horizon. We hesitate to mention the possibility, since by mentioning it we ourselves step into the realm of FATE and FUTURE: By stepping into the near future, do we somehow alter it??? And if by so doing we prevent the FAKED DEATH of Bill Clinton, is our action noble or ignominius? "NOT TO ALTER THE FUTURE" was the warning given by Lor-el. Yet that warning, in one fictional account, was finally ignored. Bob Schiffer, on the CBS Network News broadcast of 12/11/98, was all choked up -- really all choked up and not faking it -- when he reported on Bill Clinton's abrupt FINAL GOOD-BYE speech today in the Rose Garden. CBS News deemed that FINAL GOOD-BYE speech to be so important that they time-slotted it, in its entirety, into the brief time span of its nightly news broadcast. A key CNNS source, DOUBLE CODE-NAMED "Slim Bacall," had privately speculated that a FAKED DEATH of Bill Clinton was on the horizon, probably in Israel. This had been pondered upon. Now, with the eerie FINAL GOOD-BYE speech in the Rose Garden today; with the Bob Schiffer emotions; with the CBS News precious time-slot allocation; and finally, tilting the scales, "Rhea Fortean's" observations (below), CNNS must defy Lor-el's warning and possibly alter the future, although we do so wondering whether we are acting wisely. In closing, we include portions of "Rhea Fortean's" observations: I get a strong feeling that more Dems will vote for impeachment than people believe. Jay Servin of MSNBC thinks so too. The threats and arm-twisting is angering the Dems. The continued denials are making them angry. This last minute speech of BC with another apology may also make them more mad. LIke the DNA on the dress, no admissions are done unless he is made to do so. Also the trip to Israel --when they don't want him---that will cause security problems in Israel and may cause citizen's to be killed is another "in your face" act that some say will make Dems (and Mod Reps) mad. Heads up. I "feel" that a movement for resignation is in the works. There were calls for resignation in the Opening Remarks by both sides. Or references that because he didn't resign, we are here today. The strong remarks of what would happen if we had a trial...and then thrown in are remarks that if BC had any honor he would resign if the impeachment passes. I have heard/read remarks when Dems say don't be too sure it would fail in the Senate. Also remarks by the Dems give a clue. All say that impeachment will happen. They say of course, the impeachment by the Reps but they always say the impeachment as a done deal. It can't be a done deal w/out some Dems. Heads up. On Fox last night they talked that after Reno turns down the Ind Counsel on Ickes, she will resign. They said it was the talk of DC. Could it have anything to do with the investigation of her by the Jud Comte and her mob connections. As i said, things are going on in the Jud Comte with the Dems learning things that they are having BAD problems with. They have promised to tow the line to make the process look partisan but some are learning very disturbing things about BC. I just wonder with all the hints being given out if the impeachment vote won't be large instead of close and therefore, some Dems will ask for his resignation. An odd remark was made last night on the Fox news. Said that WH people were saying that BC is "still in denial"--pathetically so about what is about to happen to him. What does That sound like to you? I
Re: [CTRL] Heads Up: Bill Clinton Is Finished
-Caveat Lector- Today, Bill Clinton gave his final good-bye to America in an abrupt Rose Garden speech where he reiterated his apologies for misdeeds, both the implied specific and the unmentioned general. It reminds me of when one is suing someone...at the point that the party you are suing comes back and makes an offer to settle (at terms more favorable to the defendant than what would be imposed by the court), they've basically admitted guilt and the unliklihood that they will prevail in court -- else they wouldn't be making the offer in the first place... Considering most congresscritters are lawyers (or ex-lawyers), they are very aware of this principle...so I suspect this latest POTUS ploy asking for censure will in fact backfire... In the normal context, his speech made no sense, coming as it did synchronous to the House committee having approved the first article of impeachment. What an odd time to apologize (in the normal context)! They're aware that they've lost the fight to stop the articles from being approved and passed onto the House of Representatives, so now they're switching their focus to those moderates of both parties in the House who are waivering on whether to vote for impeachment or not...Clinton and his advisors are hoping that by offering to 'accept censure' (like he'd have a choice, anyways), that they can sway those fence-sitters to vote against impeachment... With censure, Bubba gets a slap on the wrist, and then continues on with business as usual...including the ability to collect his presidential pension and hold high government positions after the year 2001... Irregardless that censure is unConstitutional... But suppose Bill Clinton is about to disappear, in one manner or another. This news service cannot say whether a FAKED DEATH of Bill Clinton is on the horizon. I doubt it. Bubba wants too much to join the Hollywood and international jet-set crowd after his term to accept such a situation, which would necessarily require that he become an international persona non grata... The only way this scenario would make sense is if 'someone' has big plans for Hillary to make a run for the office of president sometime in the future...as the spouse of an impeached president, even a 'wronged' spouse, and especially if Bubba is removed from office by the Senate, her chances for a future bid for the presidency are nil... But as the 'widow' of a president 'assassinated' while in office, she'd find that the American public's memory of Bubba's antics is short, and she'd be in the position of an 'honored' widow But quite frankly, if such a scenario DOES have any element of truth, for the life of me I can't see why they'd FAKE the death...with all that they'd have to keep secret, hidden, and covered up, why add the extra burden of keeping Bubba undercover for the next 30 or more years...? It would be easier just to 'off' him in fact. They got away with it 35 years ago, no reason they wouldn't think they could get away with it now... (Just to make sure I'm being perfectly clear on this, there is NOTHING in my speculation that should be construed that I ENDORSE a possible assassination...I am just responding to the speculation presented in the original post, and presenting my reasons for why, if an assassination scenario IS in the works, an actual assassination would make more sense to those who are planning it, rather than a 'faked' one...) Bob Schiffer, on the CBS Network News broadcast of 12/11/98, was all choked up -- really all choked up and not faking it -- when he reported on Bill Clinton's abrupt FINAL GOOD-BYE speech today in the Rose Garden. Did anyone catch Katie Couric at the WH earlier this week, for the tree lighting...she was like a puppy, licking the shoes of the Clintons... Bubba was properly subdued and contrite... A key CNNS source, DOUBLE CODE-NAMED "Slim Bacall," had privately speculated that a FAKED DEATH of Bill Clinton was on the horizon, probably in Israel. There seems to be an inordinate amount of congresscritters -- including Schumer -- also going along on this trip... Last major event in this process seemed to coincide with Rosh Hashona and Yom Kippur...now Bubba goes to Israel right when Hannukkah starts, corresponding to when the House commences impeachment proceedings... don't know what this might mean (if anything), it just seems more than a tad coincidental...perhaps a ploy to try to gain Jewish support? Will we get a picture of Bubba praying at the Wailing Wall, with explanation that that 'proves' he's repented and that God Himself has now forgiven him (why can't Congress?) Don't be surprised to hear him make some sort of reference to Hannukkah, comparing Congress to the ancient Assyrians who forbade the Jews from lighting the temple lights... As i said, things are going on in the Jud Comte with the Dems learning things that they are having BAD problems with. They have promised to
[CTRL] Occult (Secret) Technology of Commercial Imperialism or Business Collectivism?
A-albionic Research Weekly Up-date of December 12, 1998 ^ The Occult (Secret) Technology of Commercial Imperialism or Business Collectivism? By Lloyd Miller, Research Director for A-albionic Research Perhaps the most persistent and perplexing stimulus to the curiosity of American right-wingconspiracy researchers has been the seeming contradiction of collectivist sympathies among bigbusiness and banking magnates who one would expect to be individualists. On the left, thefascist, corporate state predilections of big businessmen have been long known and researched.The right, on the other hand, tends to deny the fascist tendencies of big business and instead,stress the role of big business in fostering communist/socialist societies such as Soviet Russia andRed China. The left, of course, is as blind to the big business connection to communism as it isalert to the big business connection to fascism. The Project theory postulates that an objective point-of-view exists from which the high echelonmanipulations of big money can be seen as a consistent whole, ie. seen as an artificial technologyof commercial organism building and natural social organism manipulation that encompassesthe facts and observations of both left and right, but the interpretations of neither. Perhaps, thekey to the puzzle consists in ignoring the classical individual rights defense of business andcommercial/capitalism, as invented and propagated by agents of the British East India Companysuch as Jeremy Bentham and John Stuart Mill, and, instead, viewing business as the art ofconsciously building artificial social organisms by harnessing individual self interest through theartifice of money to the thereby emergent social organism or collective designed ultimately toserve an elite. Grasping this postulated technology outside the inner sanctum of the conspiracy is at arudimentary level. The Occult Technology of Power, reviewed elsewhere in this issue, wasperhaps the first attempt, albeit an a-historical attempt, at adumbrating this technology. TheOccult Technology of Power should be read as a primer. Most important in researching the concept of artificial organism creation, hereafter commercialimperialism, is the study of the British East India Company, by far the most titanic single organ ofcommercial imperialism ever launched by the City or any other earthly imperialist entity. Unfortunately, research on the British East India Company is no easy task. Though a few booksexist on this topic, nearly all seem to recount the same dry historical narrative, mostly the militarybattles and suppression of various revolts. Somehow, the juicy details about the Company'sfounders, the Board of Director's secret committees, major stockholders, Royal sponsors, detailsof exploitive practices such as tax farming and narcotics traffic, etc, seem to be purposely downplayed. Also down played is the extraordinary public antipathy to the Company that ebbed andflowed in waves over the extraordinary life of the Company. One suspects there is a vast,forgotten trove of conspiracy literature, contemporary to the Company that has been lost tohistory. Project readers are encouraged to report whatever evidence they nay have of this lostliterature. However, even such pro-Establishment accounts as Brian Gardners' The East India Companywho writes-off admitted popular opposition to ignorance and envy, admits that there wassomething unfathomable and mysterious in a private Company that once governed a majorfraction (1/5) of the world's population! Perhaps his introduction which quotes several otherauthors will give Project readers a taste of that mystery: A government which through might of arms, was the most powerful in Asia: a government, the revenue of hich was greater than that of Britain; a government which ruled over more people than the present government of the United States; a government owned by businessmen, the shares of which were daily bought and sold- As Macaulay said, 'It is strange very strange.' The days of the East India Company seem remote, prodigiously remote, and so they are in every way except in the real passage of time. Even in my own lifetime there were servants of the Company still alive. Although it receives little attention now, this remarkable institution was a matter for constant comment and controversy not so long ago. It is nearly seventy years fifth of the world's population- Dr, C. Northcote Parkinson made it seem straightforward enough, in his admirable definition: 'How was the East India Company controlled? By the Government. What was its object? To collect taxes. How was this object attained? By means of a large standing army. What were its employees? Soldiers, mostly, the rest,
Re: [CTRL] Jews use Christian blood for matzoh. REPLY
-Caveat Lector- On Fri, 11 Dec 1998, nurev wrote: Then you are too easily offended by body parts. I find neither vaginas nor penises offensive in and of themselves...I AM offended at human beings being referred to by the pornographic terms for vaginas and penises, as if they were nothing BUT their genitalia. As a woman, I find it particularly offensive to be referred to as either a 'twat' or a 'cunt', especially by white Liberal males who constantly mouth platitudes about supporting the feminist movement...such language blatantly reveals the real contempt you have for women. (My apologies to anyone else who may find the terms offensive, for using them in the above statement to make my point) June *---* revcoal AT connix DOT com *---* It is UNLAWFUL to send unsolicited commercial email to this email address per United States Code Title 47 Sec. 227. I assess a fee of $500.00 US currency for reading and deleting such unsolicited commercial email. Sending such email to this address denotes acceptance of these terms. My posting messages to Usenet neither grants consent to receive unsolicited commercial email nor is intended to solicit commercial email. ** DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Jews use Christian blood for matzoh. REPLY
-Caveat Lector- I would call her a psychoprick, but that doesn't seem appropriate. Joshua2 The correct term is PsychoGenitalistic Person. If you presist in this Gender Specific Sexual Hate Speech, you will be reported to the Canadian Hate Police. You do realize that this post travels to Canada and that the US has an extradition treaty with Canada? flw DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Long Arm Of The Anti Pot Police
Attn: Murderers, Rapists, Nazi War Criminals and Pot Smokers, you cannot escape the long arm of the law. flw 1. Exemplary Citizen to be Extradited on 25 Year-Old $10 Marijuana Conviction[NOTE TO OUR READERS: We present this story as it poses an interesting ethical question. Is escape an ethical response to a conviction under a bad policy? Even if the convicted would have served only three months time? And should twenty-five years of exemplary life cause a prosecutor to choose not to seek the return of such an escapee? It is, in the end, the odd outcome of a flawed system, and we offer here the perspectives of the attorneys on either side.]Alfred Martin will be heading back to Virginia after a Michigan court ordered him extradited on charges that he walked away from a one year prison sentence in 1974. (Martin was sentenced to ten years, but all but one year of the sentence was suspended.) Martin had been sentenced for selling $10 worth of marijuana to a co-worker, and now faces charges of escape, as well as theft by conversion for failing to complete payments on a stereo and a television that he had bought on installment shortly before his original arrest and conviction.Martin, a broker for the Mortgage Company of Michigan, had led an exemplary life since his conviction, according to Judge William Callahan, who nevertheless ruled in favor of the state of Virginia. Callahan also said that Martin and his family had been a credit to the state during their twenty-five years in Michigan.Virginia had tried once before to have Martin extradited, in 1976. At that time, then-Governor William Milikan granted him legal asylum in Michigan. Since that time, however, several Supreme Court rulings have supported the rights of states to retrieve persons from other states regardless of the circumstances.Gregory R. Neidle, Martin's attorney, told The Week Online, the prosecutor (Joan Ziglar of Martinsville, VA) materially misrepresented Mr. Martin's situation both to the Governor of Virginia and to the Michigan court. There was no indication in any of her papers that my client had previously fought this for three years resulting in the granting of asylum. Legally, therefore, we believe that Mr. Martin has been wrongly extradited. >From the standpoint of justice, he is a man who had no record prior to his arrest twenty-five years ago, and he's had no record since he's arrived in Michigan. He's a mortgage broker, a successful man, with a wife of twenty-six years and three children. There is absolutely no reasonable justification for sending Alfred Martin back to prison.Joan Ziglar has been the prosecutor in the town of Martinsville, population 16,000, for just under a year. Martinsville, she says, has a serious drug problem, in part due to its midpoint status between New York and Florida. According to Ziglar, approximately 70% of her cases are either directly or indirectly drug-related. She spoke with The Week Online:WOL: Mr. Martin walked away from his sentence almost twenty-five years ago. Why, after all this time, did you decide to pursue this case?Ziglar: When I was first elected, I sat down with my staff to discuss our priorities. One of those priorities was to pursue extradition of felons who had fled the jurisdiction. Mr. Martin fits that description and when the state of Michigan notified us that they had stopped him, I reopened his file just like I would for any other fugitive. I would also mention that unlike other extradition cases, where someone has fled before trial, Mr. Martin had been convicted here. He had escaped from detention.WOL: But even the judge in Michigan commented that he had led an exemplary life there. What do you hope to accomplish by putting him back in jail?Ziglar: Well, there are others here who are awaiting trial, and I want them all to know that if you run, no matter how far or long, we will come after you. So you might as well stay and take your medicine now. I also believe that we have to send a message that we will fight drugs, even marijuana. America is fed up with drugs, and I believe that it is my job to fight for a safer America.WOL: So now he will face his original sentence plus two others, right?Ziglar: Mr. Martin faces a maximum of five years for his escape, and a maximum of twenty years for the felony theft-by conversion charge. I would add that while he had originally been sentenced to two five year terms, all but six months of each of those had been suspended. And, going by the parole rules in 1974, he would have only served a total of three months of that year. Today, under truth in sentencing, he would have had to serve 85% of that year.WOL: And will you seek the maximum?Ziglar: Other than cases such as murder, I never ask for a specific sentence. I will argue to the jury that Mr. Martin is guilty of the charges, and that he should be punished appropriately. I will leave it to the jury to make the
[CTRL] U.N. Meeting Is Warned About Perils Of Y2K Bug
Title: U.N. Meeting Is Warned About Perils Of Y2K Bug What is interesting about this Wash Post Article is that it doesn't mention that the Press was barred from attending the secret part about what the specific dangers are and what the plans are to cope with it. Why are these plans being kept secret? flw Print EditionToday's National ArticlesInside A SectionFront Page Articles On Our SiteTop News/Breaking NewsPolitics SectionNational Section U.N. Meeting Is Warned About Perils Of Y2K BugCoordination Sought 'To Contain' Damage By John M. GoshkoWashington Post Staff WriterSaturday, December 12, 1998; Page A06 UNITED NATIONS, Dec. 11Delegates from more than 120 countries met here today to discuss the Year 2000 Bug and were warned repeatedly that not all of the anticipated computer problems will be fixed in time to prevent substantial economic and humanitarian damage in many parts of the world. It will not be possible for us to stop the clock at midnight on Dec. 31, 1999, said Ahmad Kamal, Pakistan's ambassador to the United Nations and chairman of the U.N. committee coordinating work on the problem. We all know we are in a race against time and must do all we can to contain the damage. The problem, known as Y2K or the millennium bug, stems from the use in many computers of a two-digit dating system that assumes the first two digits of the year are 19. On Jan. 1, 2000, these computers could read 00 as 1900 instead of 2000 and shut down or malfunction. The conference here was the first attempt to take a global look at the problem. It was organized after Rep. Stephen Horn (R-Calif.), who chairs a House committee on Y2K, wrote to Secretary General Kofi Annan. The secretary general designated Kamal to be the point man for the undertaking in collaboration with John A. Koskinen, chairman of the U.S. presidential council on Y2K. Most of today's sessions were held behind closed doors in an effort to encourage delegates to speak frankly without fear of causing concern in their home countries. The conference was supposed to look at possible responses in national, international and regional terms and discuss how these approaches might be integrated. Of particular concern, delegates said, were the potential disruptive impact on telecommunications and nuclear and hydroelectric power and the ripple effects these might have on the world's day-to-day activities, including trade, food production and distribution, and medical care. The delegates said no one really knows, from country to country and region to region, how much progress can be made in fixing the Y2K problem in the 386 days remaining until 2000. As Joseph Connor, U.N. undersecretary general for management, said, All we know for sure is the timing. The scope is simply daunting. We will have a big problem in the United States, Sen. Robert F. Bennett (R-Utah), chairman of a Senate special committee on Y2K, said in an interview. How big we won't know for about another eight months since much depends on what we do in that time. But it will not be the end of Western civilization as we know it in the United States. The effects in other countries will vary, Bennett added, with those industrial nations that have funds, expertise and a sense of urgency surviving better than others -- more or less in the same terms as we should experience in this country. But he warned, Some [developing] countries
[CTRL] OEN 12/12/98
-Caveat Lector- from: http://www.aci.net/kalliste/ A HREF="http://www.aci.net/kalliste/"The Home Page of J. Orlin Grabbe/A - Impeachment Watch House Judiciary Approves 3 Articles of Impeachment The moving finger writes WASHINGTON (AP) -- The House Judiciary Committee is nearing the end of its history-making votes to remove President Clinton from office, setting the stage for a dramatic impeachment confrontation before all 435 lawmakers next week. Clinton said he would accept a censure. Unbending despite Democratic attacks that never let up during a grueling 12-hour day, the Republican majority pushed three articles of impeachment through the committee on Friday. Only Rep. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., cast a GOP vote against an article. Today, the panel planned to take up a fourth article alleging abuse of power -- and a censure proposed by Democrats as an alternative to impeachment. The abuse-of-power article could be revised by Republicans. Some GOP committee members oppose language accusing Clinton of impeachable offenses by asserting legal privileges during the investigation of his affair with Monica Lewinsky. The censure proposal was headed for defeat in the committee, but Democrats and the White House are pushing Republican leaders for a vote in the full House. The House is set to convene next Thursday, with moderate Republicans still holding the balance of power to determine whether the case goes to the Senate for trial and the president's possible removal from office. Clinton went before reporters Friday to apologize once again for deceiving the public and his family. ``I am profoundly sorry for all I have done wrong,'' he said. ``I would give anything to go back and undo what I did.'' Several committee members watched Clinton on television, temporarily leaving the proceeding in the room where three impeachment articles were approved against Richard M. Nixon in 1974. They saw Clinton tell the nation that should the House members ``determine that my errors of word and deed require their rebuke and censure, I am ready to accept that.'' Minutes after Clinton finished, the committee voted, allowing Chairman Henry Hyde, R-Ill., to make the simple but dramatic announcement that ``Article One is approved.'' The vote was 21-16 along strict party lines, for an article accusing the president of perjury before a grand jury. It was only the committee's third presidential impeachment vote in U.S. history. ``This vote says something about us,'' Hyde said. ``It answers the question, just who are we, and what do we stand for? Is the president one of us or is he a sovereign?'' The second impeachment article, alleging that Clinton lied in a civil deposition in Paula Jones' sexual harassment lawsuit, was approved 20-17. Graham, who cast the lone Republican ``no'' vote, said he opposed the article because material on Ms. Lewinsky was not admitted in the case. Democrats saved some of their strongest attacks for the third article, which accuses Clinton of obstructing justice by allegedly encouraging Ms. Lewinsky to lie; coaching secretary Betty Currie about her own testimony in the Jones case; concealing subpoenaed gifts and trying to get Ms. Lewinsky a job in New York to keep her from testifying in the lawsuit. The vote was 21-16. Rep. Jerrold Nadler, D-N.Y., said the article didn't ``pass the giggle test'' and that Republicans used ``outrageous leaps of logic'' in interpreting the evidence. Rep. Charles Schumer, D-N.Y., said the article ``almost gets into the theater of the absurd'' and would convince Americans that the Republicans ``are out to get'' the president. Rep. Bob Barr, R-Ga., answering allegations that the search began months before Ms. Lewinsky appeared on the Jones witness list, argued that the job effort was a ``back-burner effort'' once it became clear that Ms. Lewinsky might testify. At that point, Barr said, presidential friend Vernon Jordan made the job search a top priority. On the gift issue, Rep. Bob Inglis, R-S.C. said the evidence demonstrated that Clinton ``must have been involved in a scheme'' to conceal the presents he gave Ms. Lewinsky. Why else, he asked, would Ms. Lewinsky turn them over to Clinton's ``trusted secretary, Betty Currie.'' Rep. William Delahunt, D-Mass., pointed to a statement by chief Republican investigator David Schippers that Mrs. Currie called Ms. Lewinsky at 3:32 p.m. last Dec. 28 to make arrangements to pick up the gifts that day. But Delahunt noted that Ms. Lewinsky told the FBI that Mrs. Currie came for the gifts about 2 p.m., an hour and a half before the call. Rep. Chris Cannon, R-Utah, responded, ``I suspect there may have been a mistake there of an hour and a half by Ms. Lewinsky, and that is not substantial.'' The Associated Press, Dec. 12, 1998 Impeachment Watch Would Clinton Quit if Impeached? Errors of word and deed WASHINGTON (AP) -- In silence, President
Re: [CTRL] The Holocaust
-Caveat Lector- At 03:53 AM 12/12/98 -0600, Alamaine Ratliff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Caveat Lector- Between 1992-94, I visited several of the camps (Buchenwald, Flossenburg, La Struthof) and I assure you they're there. Some are kept in almost original condition so when a person enters, he or she can get the "feeling". - - - snip - - - And so is this sufficient justification for you to hate all Germans, Austrians, Swiss, Ukranians, French, Italians, Spaniards, indigenous Europeans, Catholics, Lutherans, Christians, conservatives, patriotic persons, anti-Communists, and anti-Bolsheviks? DBC DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Fwd: SW Focus Report - Quantum Mechanics
[Only the first part of this message is displayed. The entire message has been turned into a text attachment, which you can retrieve by selecting Download. Once downloaded, open it with a word processor or text editor for reading.] -- Enclosure number 1 --- SCIENCE-WEEK FREE TRIAL SUBSCRIPTION: This Focus Report is extracted from the full-text Email publication SCIENCE-WEEK. If you have not had a previous free trial subscription to SCIENCE-WEEK, you can subscribe for a 3-issue SW trial without any obligation on your part afterward. To obtain a trial subscription to SCIENCE-WEEK, simply transmit FREE TRIAL to [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Full SCIENCE-WEEK subscription details are appended to this file. --- FOCUS REPORT: QUANTUM MECHANICS A Summary Group from SCIENCE-WEEK - ON THE SOKAL HOAX AND PHILOSOPHICAL EXTRAPOLATIONS IN PHYSICS In the last quarter of this century, many fields outside of physical science are apparently in the throes of epistemological crises that are seen as originating in similar crises in physics during the first quarter of the century. *Complementarity, uncertainty, relativity, observer interactions -- the perceived philosophical implications of these ideas have been imported into the humanities and social sciences where they have rocked foundations and produced what many critics view as an intellectual babble. In 1996, theoretical physicist Alan Sokal concocted an article consisting mostly of the ideations of so- called "*postmodern" cultural studies of science, the article concerned with "a transformative hermeneutics of quantum gravity" and purporting to be an application of theoretical physics to affirm the thrust of postmodern cultural studies of science in the humanities and social sciences. The article was accepted and *published by the journal *Social Text*, and shortly afterward, in the journal *Lingua Franca*, Sokal revealed that his article was a complete hoax and designed as a parody of contemporary postmodern thought. In the academ -- Enclosure number 1 --- SCIENCE-WEEK FREE TRIAL SUBSCRIPTION: This Focus Report is extracted from the full-text Email publication SCIENCE-WEEK. If you have not had a previous free trial subscription to SCIENCE-WEEK, you can subscribe for a 3-issue SW trial without any obligation on your part afterward. To obtain a trial subscription to SCIENCE-WEEK, simply transmit FREE TRIAL to [EMAIL PROTECTED]. Full SCIENCE-WEEK subscription details are appended to this file. --- FOCUS REPORT: QUANTUM MECHANICS A Summary Group from SCIENCE-WEEK - ON THE SOKAL HOAX AND PHILOSOPHICAL EXTRAPOLATIONS IN PHYSICS In the last quarter of this century, many fields outside of physical science are apparently in the throes of epistemological crises that are seen as originating in similar crises in physics during the first quarter of the century. *Complementarity, uncertainty, relativity, observer interactions -- the perceived philosophical implications of these ideas have been imported into the humanities and social sciences where they have rocked foundations and produced what many critics view as an intellectual babble. In 1996, theoretical physicist Alan Sokal concocted an article consisting mostly of the ideations of so- called "*postmodern" cultural studies of science, the article concerned with "a transformative hermeneutics of quantum gravity" and purporting to be an application of theoretical physics to affirm the thrust of postmodern cultural studies of science in the humanities and social sciences. The article was accepted and *published by the journal *Social Text*, and shortly afterward, in the journal *Lingua Franca*, Sokal revealed that his article was a complete hoax and designed as a parody of contemporary postmodern thought. In the academic furor that followed, Sokal's article was characterized as "an ingenious exposure of the decline of intellectual standards in contemporary academia," and "a brilliant parody of the postmodern nonsense rampant among the cultural studies of science." ... ... Writing in a physics journal, M. Beller now outlines an argument that theoretical physicists both past and present have had much responsibility for what appear to be the nonsensical applications of theoretical physics to the humanities and social sciences. The author makes the following points: 1) The philosophical pronouncements (several of which are quoted at length by Beller) of theoretical physicists *Niels Bohr, *Max Born, *Werner Heisenberg, *Wolfgang Pauli, and *Pascual Jordan deserve some of the blame for the excesses of the postmodern critique of science. 2) Like the
[CTRL] Fwd: [priory-of-sion] List debates
Some words to the wise? Om K - From: "Sean O'Callaghan" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi folks, Honest guvI'm not trying to stifle debate. Believe me, the healthy debates we have here ensure the list's liveliness and freshness, but I have been a tiny bit concerned lately that one or two issues were taking on a more " personal " tone and this often leads to a bit of " tit for tat " which can be tedious for those not caught up in the topic. I have sent many emails and instantly regretted sending them; there is an immediacy about email correspondence which means that you often don't think through the issues and the effects. I like what Makarios writes at the end of his/her posts " Contemplare et contemplata aliis tradere "... "to contemplate and to give the fruits of that contemplation to others" Just a little bit more thought sometimes might avoid misunderstandings because as someone wrote just this morning, too much of an all out frontal attack can make some people afraid to contribute lest they be subjected to any kind of ridicule. This happens very rarely, but it is good to remind ourselves to just be on the look-out for any signs of it, Best wishes, Sean To unsubscribe from this mailing list, or to change your subscription to digest, go to the ONElist web site, at http://www.onelist.com and select the User Center link from the menu bar on the left.
Re: [CTRL] Peggy Noonan Addresses Heritage Foundation Audience in
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/11/98 2:33:27 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hmmmnever heard that one before. What is it that you have not heard? Prudy DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Fwd: One World, One Company?
How times have changed. Two decades ago, perhaps even a decade ago, Exxon and Mobil -- the number one and number two U.S. oil producers -- would not have dared to propose a merger. If they had so dared, the initial public reaction would have been uproarious laughter. If the companies had persisted in their marriage plans over the din of guffaws and snickers, the laughter would have quickly turned to outrage. Newspaper editorials would have denounced the merger. Members of Congress would have thundered about the threat to democracy and called for intensive and immediate hearings. Most importantly, the public would have risen in opposition. There is no chance that the antitrust authorities would have approved such a merger a mere two decades ago. Now, there is a disturbingly good possibility the union will be approved. The reason for the change has less to do with new economic analyses of the costs and benefits of mergers -- though a conservative, corporate-backed campaign has managed to overturn many common-sense insights on the costs of mergers in terms of price increases and the inefficiencies of giant, bloated corporations -- than with the altered conception of the political consequences of corporate conglomeration. When the Teddy Roosevelt-era trustbusters broke up the Standard Oil monopoly, they were motivated by political as much as economic concerns. They understood that concentrated economic power translates into concentrated political power, and that concentrated political power is incompatible with democracy. It is time for the U.S. antitrust authorities to recover that perspective -- and it is increasingly important that antitrust authorities in other nations do the same. A recent United Nations report highlights the importance of recognizing the political implications of mergers and acquisitions. Not only did mergers reach record levels in the United States in 1997, so did cross-border deals. In 1997, total cross-border mergers and acquisitions amounted to $342 billion, according to the United Nations Conference onTrade and Development's 1998 World Investment Report. With the Daimler-Benz takeover of Chrysler, BP buying up Amoco and Deutschebank acquiring Banker's Trust, the 1998 figures seem likely to exceed those from 1997. While it is the giant deals between megacorporations in the industrialized countries that get most of the attention, the hottest trend is multinationals buying up companies in developing countries. Since 1991, cross-border acquisitions of companies in developing nations have risen approximately nine times -- to more than $95 billion in 1997. (While companies are being bought up in the developing world, not many developing country companies are doing much buying. Companies based in the Third World acquired companies in other countries worth under $41 billion in 1997.) According to the UN report, two major factors now account for the rise in the firesale of developing country businesses: privatization, especially in Latin America and Eastern Europe, with national telephone, electricity and other enterprises coming under foreign corporate control; and the Asian economic crisis, which has given multinationals the opportunity to swoop in and buy Asian companies in financial trouble. While it may be the case in some instances that foreign corporate takeovers will lead to more efficient company performance -- for example, ATT or other multinational telephone companies may improve customer service in some countries -- in general foreign takeovers offer none of the purported benefits of foreign investment. The acquisitions do not create new jobs, they do not generate new economic activity, they do not represent new investment -- they only change the company's name. But these takeovers do present serious problems. Where the takeovers create private monopolies or oligopolies, developing countries will face the standard problems of price-gouging and suppression of innovation. They will also face political problems of immense proportions. The multinationals are often larger in economic terms than the developing countries in which they do business, meaning Third World governments are routinely going to have a very hard time regulating the corporate goliaths.That the company's headquarters are outside of the country, and that the corporation has no allegiance to the country in which it is operating, will make the regulatory challenge that much more difficult. Although rich countries are more able to control foreign-owned economic powers operating in their borders, they too are likely to find foreign ownership to be a growing problem. U.S. history makes crystal clear the imperative of paying attention to the political consequences of merger mania. But if the U.S. antitrust agencies cannot seem to remember and draw lessons from that history, perhaps it should be no surprise that their counterparts in other countries seem equally oblivious. Russell Mokhiber is editor
Re: [CTRL] Fw: [FAIR-L] ACTION ALERT: ABC Airs Abu-Jamal Segment
-Caveat Lector- After reading material from one side of an issue, how can either one of you comment on a program that you apparently didn't watch, and a case about which you state you are unfamiliar Just curious. Barb At 04:05 AM 12/12/98 -0600, you wrote: -Caveat Lector- Gee ... I don't know ... sounds like the good old days, back in the USSR, when the news got broadcast once flavoured and spiced by the government or by those who knew which issues should be presented and how ... AER The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes. -Marcel Proust -- : From: Gerald Harp [EMAIL PROTECTED] : To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Subject: Re: [CTRL] Fw: [FAIR-L] ACTION ALERT: ABC Airs Abu-Jamal Segment : Date: Friday, December 11, 1998 2:31 PM : : -Caveat Lector- : : In a message dated 12/11/98 11:29:41 AM Eastern Standard Time, : [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: : : : : FAIR ACTION ALERT: ABC Airs Abu-Jamal Segment; : : Sam Donaldson calls for inmate's execution, calls supporters ignorant : : : : I am not familiar with the details of the referenced criminal case but i : wonder what has happened to the news media. I live in the suburbs of : Monicaland and it is now quite common on our local all news radio station to : listen to station reporters earnestly interviewing Sam and Cokie for their : views on just about everything - Clinton's love life, why the SOB deserves : impeachment, OJ, the economy, whatever. Don't Sam and Cokie know that they : are supposed to pretend to a certain hauteur that lifts them above mixing : editorializing with "reporting" the news? : : Jerry Harp : : DECLARATION DISCLAIMER : == : CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic : screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters : and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright : frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects : spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL : gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; : be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and : nazi's need not apply. : : Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. : : : To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: : SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] : : To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: : SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] : : Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Clinton / Dole
-Caveat Lector- When Clinton was accused of getting $7 million illegally, Dole was accused of getting $17 million illegally--but this Dole business was just mentioned as an afterthought. If you blinked, you would have missed it. == No I didn't miss it, in fact I wrote a post about the outrage. I am no Repbulican. My contempt for Clinton is not a party issue. What you say above is right ... they are all scum bag crooks. After one understands that political parties are but criminal mob members, their option is to justify one because the other is just as corrupt or they can turn their back on all corrupt /evil organizations. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Clinton replies
-Caveat Lector- When one makes legit arguments that politicians are scum bags their Lemmings "defense" is no defense at all, but their tactics is to throw stones at those who expose/ spell out politician filth. As you study issues, you must understand what proofs/arguments contribute to the issue at hand and what information is thrown in to create a smoke screen. i.e. == you seem to have an uncommon interest in this. do you get paid for your stupidity; if not, it is really a waste. this is the attitude that will get you paid; but you can't go out much and never, never express an opinion in public. if you do, i have a psychic prediction for you ... guess what that is. Knyuck, Knyuck, Knyuck. * My uncommon interest. * I get paid for stupidity ... and other important information? *** Your subject line should have read: More deranged commentary from dr. quack quack. * Here the subject is about the deranged author == All such things about me (and much more) may be true for argument's sake, but the reply had no response to the proof that the United States has Chester the molester as their president. == One of the test of good/evil is the test of hypocrisy. If you must apply a different standard for others than you have for your own you are evil. === It has nothing to do with the fact that if this same thing would happened to: * The daughter of Clinton * The daughter of any of Clinton's supporters * The daughter of any congressman/senator (grabbed by the crotch and given a ... to suck) There would be an outrage, law suite, the pervert would be jailed and in many cases the pervert would have the hell beat out of them ! Now because chester the molester has been identified as the god of the Lemmings, they protect the pervert that would have his face mashed in if it happened to their own daughter ! When this fact is brought before the eyes of the Lemmings, they do not/can not admit to the fact, their only recourse is to attack those who presented the facts (that they can not stand) Governments of all nations have made brainwashing groupies a science. It seems we have millions of dollars to teach kids about dinosaurs, how to give safe oral sex, meditation ... but there will never be any studies which teach logic and to know when they have been used. === The fact that Clinton (if not a big politician) would have been arrested, sued an/or had the hell beat out of him if it were the daughters of his supporters (who were grabbed by the crotch) and now they protect chester the molester, is the fact that they are Lemmings ... Evil Lemmings. I expect your first reaction to be rage for the duck which brings you information you want to close your eyes to, but look deep with in yourselves. Those who have jumped on the band wagon of any party, do you find yourselves protecting scum bags and criminals in your own party and casting your rage against those who do the same things in other parties? I hope to slap you in the face so you wake up from their trance. When you support the evil, you are evil yourselves. . . DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Heads Up: Bill Clinton Is Finished
-Caveat Lector- Just one more case of the media--which seems to be in the pocket of the Republicans and the radical right and whoever the puppetmasters are--calling the shots before the play is done. Nothing new. They haven't stopped all year and they're not about to stop now. The only thing that makes this "surprising" is the polls--which still say this is NOT what the American public wants. And that is the most frightening element of this whole thing. That neither the Congressional majority nor the media cares a fig what the electorate wants. Someone here made an excellent post some time back about the humiliation of Democratic presidents in our time. They have not merely been accused of "wrongdoing," but have been dragged before the American public in shame. I wouldn't be surprised if Clinton met with some unfortunate accident on his current tripIt will be interesting to see if he gets back in one piece. Make no mistake. This is a bloodless coup. And all of you who think that you hate/dislike/disapprove of Clinton are not going to like what comes nextbut you will deserve it. sno0wl DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Fw: [FAIR-L] ACTION ALERT: ABC Airs Abu-Jamal Segment
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/12/98 2:36:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Gee ... I don't know ... sounds like the good old days, back in the USSR, when the news got broadcast once flavoured and spiced by the government or by those who knew which issues should be presented and how .. How true. We don't get "news" anymore. We get told how to think. Prudy DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Like In Dallas, 1963: Clinton Go Home
-Caveat Lector- Thursday December 10 11:31 AM ET Posters say 'Clinton go home' JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Hundreds of posters depicting U.S. President Bill Clinton in a keffiyeh were put up on Israeli billboards around Jerusalem on Thursday ahead of his arrival, police and witnesses said. ``Clinton go home'' posters were sprayed around the city, including near the prime minister's residence, and on the main Jerusalem-Tel Aviv highway ahead of Clinton's three-day visit starting late on Saturday. Police said they did not know who put up the photomontages showing Clinton in a black-and-white traditional Arab headdress with the Hebrew words ``I am a Palestinian'' written above. The Israeli Public Works Department rushed to remove the posters and said it had set up a special team to remove new ones that could be put up during Clinton's visit. Several of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's cabinet ministers have expressed regret over the timing of Clinton's trip and the fact that he is visiting Palestinian-ruled areas. Clinton is due to arrive in Israel on Saturday and will visit Gaza on Monday. _ _ ___ Thu Dec 10 | Wed Dec 09 | Tue Dec 08 | Mon Dec 07 | Fri Dec 04 Index | Top Stories | Business | Tech | Politics | World | Local | Entertainment | Sports | Science | Health _ Questions or Comments Copyright © 1998 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. Republication or redistribution of Reuters content is expressly prohibited without the prior written consent of Reuters. Reuters shall not be liable for any errors or delays in the content, or for any actions taken in reliance thereon. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Lloyd: Bill Clinton Is Finished (ROFLMAO)
-Caveat Lector- LLoyd: Surely you cannot subscribe to this tillage?!?! :-) These "predictions" are, as far as anyone can determine or stretch their imaginations to believe, totally baseless. Where is the proof--even anecdotal--that Clinton is A) about to bow out, B) that he will be dispatched, by force or forces unknown in Isreal, or that C) the Senate would vote to impeach when, clearly, all straw polls taken of senators indicate that there is ZERO per cent chance of Clinton's impeachment being the result of trial by same? Edward At 08:29 AM 12/12/98 -0500, you wrote: -Original Message- From: Brian Redman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Newsgroups: alt.conspiracy,alt.activism Date: Friday, December 11, 1998 11:51 PM Subject: "Heads Up": Bill Clinton Is Finished "HEADS UP": BILL CLINTON IS FINISHED (CNNS, 12/11/98) -- Most valued CNNS (Conspiracy Nation News Service) source "Rhea Fortean" (pseudonym) has tilted the scales. This news service had planned to hold back on the following announcement, until a communique from "Rhea Fortean" persuaded us that we are not being premature. []===[] "If you think they're out to get you, you're right." Edward Britton http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5285/connector1.html Talk to the planet. Subscribe to Reality Pump: http://www.onelist.com/subscribe.cgi/Reality_Pump2 []===[] DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] OEN 12/12/98
-Caveat Lector- J. Orlin Grabbe Saturday, December 12, 1998 11:01 AM Subject: [CTRL] OEN 12/12/98 Dolly Kyle Browning Sworn Declaration Presented to the House Judiciary Committee on 12/11/98 Declaration Of Dolly Kyle Browning For Submission to the United States House of Representatives Committee on the Judiciary In the Impeachment Proceedings of William Jefferson Clinton I, Dolly Kyle Browning, being duly sworn, hereby depose and say: 2. I am an attorney and have been licensed to practice law in the State of Texas since 1977. I am a Fellow of the Texas Bar Foundation, an honor limited to one-third of ONE PERCENT of Texas lawyers. I am submitting this Declaration and supporting exhibits to the U.S. House of Representatives Committee on the Judiciary because I could not live with my conscience if I did not. + from: http://www.techmgmt.com/restore/clint33.htm Clinton's 'Pretty Girl' tells of 33-year Affair The Times of London November 15 1997 Not Credited November 15 1997 UNITED STATES Mrs Browning met the future President at high school. Clinton's 'Pretty Girl' tells of 33-year affair. HE CALLED her My Pretty Girl, but she knew him as plain Billy Clinton: the man with whom Dolly Kyle Browning claims she maintained an affair for three decades - a relationship which ended only when he became President of the United States. For years Mrs Browning, 49, has kept her silence. Even when the Clinton campaign threatened to destroy her if she co-operated with a tabloid magazine in 1992, she protected his privacy. But now she has completed a fictional account of their partnership and, as President Clinton faces the embarrassment of the Paula Jones sexual harassment suit, a trial for which Mrs Browning has been subpoenaed to testify, she has finally agreed to talk for the first time about 33 years in Mr Clinton's thrall. It is an extraordinary and often sad story which began on a golf course in Arkansas when she was 11 and ended at the thirtieth reunion of their high school class in Hot Springs three years ago. During an interview at the Dallas home she shares with her third husband, Mrs Browning described an affair that devastated her life; a sometimes sexual and emotional relationship that she still finds hard to discuss. While she is clearly an addictive personality and openly admits to more than a decade in therapy to resolve her sexual addiction, Mrs Browning said her unrequited love for Mr Clinton should have ended where it began, in the classroom at Hot Springs. "I would say that his being President of the United States is absolutely irrelevant," she said. "Being in love with someone who is not emotionally available is unhealthy and ultimately destructive. "And it can be romanticised and it can be rationalised but once it was clear that the relationship was not going to go properly towards marriage, then it should have been over." The two apparently were immediately attracted to each other but never had any sexual contact at school. It was only afterwards, when she was at the University of Arkansas at Little Rock and then moved to Dallas that they would spend countless hours together, sometimes talking into the night, taking long drives and occasionally arranging clandestine meetings in hotels. As she tells it, they corresponded regularly and, whenever she returned to Arkansas to stay with her mother or sister, Mr Clinton would call and they would meet. She was invited to parties with friends and, when he became the state Governor, functions at the mansion, most often when Hillary Clinton was away. A competent musician - she played the organ in her local church from an early age - Mrs Browning wrote two dozen love songs for the nascent politician. "There would be times when it would be sexual and there would be many more times when it was not. It wasn't a relationship where every time we got together we went to bed," she said. "We had this attraction and I have to think it was mutual. We talked a lot, we corresponded with each other. And Billy would use me as a sounding board a lot about his political ambitions." Mrs Browning, a Southern girl to the roots of her blonde hair, described the Hot Springs of their childhood as a hotbed of adultery. Only faithful couples warranted conversation. It was a den of gambling and insider dealing, an early influence that many of his critics believe has been reflected throughout Mr Clinton's career, whether in the Whitewater fiasco or the raising of irregular funds for his re-election last year. As their affair progressed, Mrs Browning saw two marriages fall apart. By 1986 she was sleeping with multiple partners and decided to enter therapy for her sexual addiction. It was there that counsellors recommended she write down her feelings about the relationship, sentiments that appeared recently as fiction in Purposes of the Heart, her first novel. Publishers in New York looked at the manuscript and said that Mrs Browning could command a
Re: [CTRL] The Holocaust
-Caveat Lector- Begging your pardon, I have just reread the post I sent initially and I don't read anything about "hate", especially when it comes to the groups you've listed. I hope it is clear that when I respond to a posting, I do not necessarily endorse the parts I repost for reference (it's hard for others to keep the the thread without some reminders). The part I did include referred to someone's uncle having photographs of the aftermath of WW2 and whether the accompanying events ever happened. I was merely sharing MY experience of their actual existence, something the Europeans (and others) take VERY seriously. They are actually pretty chilling places to experience. If not taken seriously and not meant to be chilling, they'd have razed the bunch of them long ago. I hope there is no confusion about email protocol wherein the replies usually have some punctuation preceeding the original post(s) to indicate newer from older ... Perhaps you can clarify what there was to warrant a response to the effect of "And so is this sufficient justification for you to hate ..." I welcome your elucidation. AER The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes. -Marcel Proust -- : From: Damian B. Cooper [EMAIL PROTECTED] : To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Subject: Re: [CTRL] The Holocaust : Date: Wednesday, December 31, 1969 6:00 PM : : -Caveat Lector- : : At 03:53 AM 12/12/98 -0600, Alamaine Ratliff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: : -Caveat Lector- : : Between 1992-94, I visited several of the camps (Buchenwald, Flossenburg, : La Struthof) and I assure you they're there. Some are kept in almost : original condition so when a person enters, he or she can get the : "feeling". : : - - - snip - - - : : And so is this sufficient justification for you to hate all Germans, Austrians, : Swiss, Ukranians, French, Italians, Spaniards, indigenous Europeans, : Catholics, Lutherans, Christians, conservatives, patriotic persons, : anti-Communists, and anti-Bolsheviks? : : DBC : : DECLARATION DISCLAIMER : == : CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic : screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters : and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright : frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects : spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL : gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; : be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and : nazi's need not apply. : : Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. : : : To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: : SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] : : To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: : SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] : : Om DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Fw: [FAIR-L] ACTION ALERT: ABC Airs Abu-Jamal Segment
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/12/98 2:36:38 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: how can either one of you comment on a program that you apparently didn't watch, and a case about which you state you are unfamiliar? I didn't reply about the case. I merely commented on the current ractice of elder TV reporters to editorialize on various news items. Prudy was responding to my comments. In other words, your question has no basis. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Fw: Proposed CDC Guidelines Threaten Privacy!
-Caveat Lector- AER The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking new landscapes but in having new eyes. -Marcel Proust -- : From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] : Subject: Proposed CDC Guidelines Threaten Privacy! : Date: Friday, December 11, 1998 8:25 AM : : 1. HIV Names Reporting : 2. Civil Asset Forfeiture : : 1. HIV Names Reporting: The Centers for Disease Control (CDC) yesterday : released draft guidelines for the surveillance of HIV cases that would : violate our most basic privacy rights. In these guidelines, the CDC : recommends that states institute case reporting of people who test positive : for HIV by name rather than using a system of unique identifiers. : : The proposed CDC guidelines are bad for public health and threaten to : destroy our most basic privacy rights. Study after study confirms that : mandatory names reporting discourages people from getting tested for HIV. : A recent article in the prestigious Journal of the American Medical : Association makes clear that anonymous testing is the most effective means : of insuring HIV positive people receive the life-saving treatment they : need. : : Although the CDC recommends that states maintain the availability of : anonymous testing, it well knows that the guidelines are likely to have the : opposite effect. Nationally, ten states have eliminated anonymous testing : after starting names reporting. : : The CDC is accepting public comment on these guidelines through January 11, : 1999. Take action today! Send a FREE FAX to the CDC stating that HIV names : reporting violates privacy and ignores scientific evidence from the ACLU : web site at: : : http://www.aclu.org/congress/congress.html : : 2. Civil Asset Forfeiture: Imagine that the police had the right to seize : your property -- your home, your car, your business, your cash -- and you : hadn't even been arrested, charged or convicted of a crime. Believe it or : not, under the law of civil asset forfeiture, such conduct by the police is : perfectly legal. : : Currently asset forfeiture is used by federal law enforcement officials as : a dream way to fill their coffers by seizing assets allegedly used in a : crime. But asset forfeiture has become a nightmare for many Americans who : have been accused of a crime but have not been proven guilty. In many : cases, even when the accused citizens are found innocent, they face an : expensive struggle with government bureaucrats to recover their property. : Many times they are unsuccessful in ever recovering their property! : : In anticipation of action on this critical issue in the upcoming Congress, : the ACLU has purchased an ad in the New York Times to raise public : awareness and mobilize grassroots action. You can see a copy of the ad and : send a FREE FAX to your members of Congress by visiting the ACLU web site : at: : : http://www.aclu.org/features/nytimesad121198.html : : --- : You are currently subscribed to action as: [[EMAIL PROTECTED]] : To unsubscribe, forward this message to [EMAIL PROTECTED] DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] Heads Up: Bill Clinton Is Finished
-Caveat Lector- In a message dated 12/12/98 2:54:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Just one more case of the media--which seems to be in the pocket of the Republicans and the radical right and whoever the puppetmasters are--calling the shots before the play is done. Now that's an interesting observation. The media have been defending and covering for the current president since before his first election. For years prior to that they have consistently espoused a left-wing agenda. ..Are you suggesting that all of this is some sort of reverse pyschology? Nothing new. They haven't stopped all year and they're not about to stop now. The only thing that makes this "surprising" is the polls--which still say this is NOT what the American public wants. And that is the most frightening element of this whole thing. That neither the Congressional majority nor the media cares a fig what the electorate wants. Yes, it is surprising that the polls say this - if they are legitimate. Actually the most frightening element would be the possibility that these polls might indeed be true, which would prove that our society has finally devolved literally into "the ignorant masses." I would not argue that "neither the Congressional majority nor the media care a fig what the electorate wants," but in fairness, and in the interest of accuracy, I would have to add that neither does the congressional minority. Someone here made an excellent post some time back about the humiliation of Democratic presidents in our time. They have not merely been accused of "wrongdoing," but have been dragged before the American public in shame. Which presidents do you have in mind? All of Roosevelt's "accomplishments" went against American tradition as well as the intent and spirit of our constitution, yet he is revered by the media as well as in history texts. I don't recall Truman getting an unfair review. John Kennedy was a pretty ineffectual president; everything he did turned to fecal matter. Yet after he was assassinated he became a national hero. Even today, when his sexual escapades are brought up, it is in a tone giving him an air of macho-ism. As to L. B. Johnson, like FDR, his is an example of unlimited power abused for the purposes of personal political enrichment. In an era when the popularity of the concept of socialism was at one of its peaks, Johnson took every advantage. Today we are reaping the consequences of his "Great Society." Yet when his character flaws are discussed by today's media, they are passed off as amusing eccentricies. He too seems revered by the media for his efforts to further the socialist cause. If you mean Jimmy Carter, yes he's been laughed at quite a bit, but not by the media. His problem was simply incompetence; he simply wasn't up to the job. But that is not a part of his historical legacy. His legacy is merely that he was a very nice man. And this brings us to Mr. Clinton. I wouldn't be surprised if Clinton met with some unfortunate accident on his current tripIt will be interesting to see if he gets back in one piece. Time will tell. Let us hope that no harm comes to him. It would be the wrong way to have our problem solved. Make no mistake. This is a bloodless coup. It is you and the pundits who are helping to form your opinions who are making the mistake. This is not a coup. It is the legitimate activity of the American constitutional system of government in reaction to a crisis. A bit late and a bit light perhaps, but the system is working, and at least so far, we should all be thankful for that. And all of you who think that you hate/dislike/disapprove of Clinton are not going to like what comes nextbut you will deserve it. This I would agree with. None of us is going to like what comes next. And we will all deserve it. Those of us who vehemently disapprove of the level of corruption exemplified by your Mr. Clinton will deserve it because of our apathy, lack of protest. Those like yourself who condone and support the actions of men like Bill Clinton will deserve it because of your unwillingness to see truth through your own smokey aura of petty and selfish emotion. It is a sad thing for all of us. Jim sno0wl DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
[CTRL] Tobacco targets youth.
-Caveat Lector- Subject: Tobacco capitalists targeted youth Date: Sat, 12 Dec 1998 18:09:04 + From: Chris Burford Bonding, idenifying, competing, taking risks, and socialising, often with the aid of drugs of recreation, are all highly complex psychosocial processes, but they are now not exactly a capitalism-free zone of subtle purely personal choices. This information came to light in October in the action by Washington state against the tobacco industry: Paul Luvera, a private lawyer hired by the state for its case, displayed a 1979 Philip Morris document analyzing its demographics. The company concluded its Marlboro brand "dominates in the 17 and younger age category, capturing over 50 percent of this market." R.J. Reynolds Tobacco Co. had wished to challenge this domination of the youth market and designed a marketing strategy in the mid-1970s to try to increase its share, according to another secret document. A January 1975 R.J. Reynolds memorandum, stamped secret, described the goals of a recommendation to expand the company's "Meet the Turk" ad campaign to increase its share of the young adult market, which it defined as the 14 to 24 age group. R.J. Reynolds' Camel Filter brand was smoked primarily by people over 35, the memo said, and increasing its popularity among young smokers was key because they "represent tomorrow's cigarette business." "While 'Meet the Turk' is designed to shift the brand's age profile to the younger age group, this won't come overnight. Patience, persistence and consistency will be needed," the memo said. DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Outline of new Republican National Health Plan.
-Caveat Lector- PRAY - YOU - DON'T - GET - SICK. Thank you, thank you ver' much. J2 DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] The Holocaust
-Caveat Lector- At 12:13 PM 12/12/98 EST, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Caveat Lector- You are helping to create and are playing in a dialectic freeway built by the cryptocracy to kill and subjugate you. Do You understand? Om K Well, I ...uh... umm Gosh! ... er... ah... ummm uh... I dunno! DBC DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] The Holocaust
-Caveat Lector- At 10:56 AM 12/12/98 -0700, Hilary Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Caveat Lector- - - - snip - - - I did not say or imply that "all Germans, Austrians, Swiss, French, Catholics, Lutherans, Christians, etc., are collectively guilty of all war crimes of WW II." That is your interpretation. Hilary I never said that YOU said or implied the collective guilt of the enumerated parties. I said that the enumerated parties perceive "the Holocaust" to be a conscious and premeditated campaign to insinuate or overtly assign guilt to them. If you don't think that is the case, then YOU have got some missionary work to do to convince the enumerated parties that the "the Holocaust" isn't just a campaign of psychological aggression intended to shame or humiliate them into acceding to someone else's political agenda. DBC DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] The Holocaust
-Caveat Lector- Well, some coherentcy and true statements at last. Om K In a message dated 12/12/98 8:14:47 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, I ...uh... umm Gosh! ... er... ah... ummm uh... I dunno! DBC - Aloha, He'Ping, Om, Shalom, Salaam. Em Hotep, Peace Be, Omnia Bona Bonis, All My Relations. Adieu, Adios, Aloha. Amen. Roads End Kris DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
Re: [CTRL] The Holocaust
-Caveat Lector- You sure project your personal feelings to many people you haven't even spoken too. Straight dweebism. What's your agenda? Om K In a message dated 12/12/98 8:14:47 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I never said that YOU said or implied the collective guilt of the enumerated parties. I said that the enumerated parties perceive "the Holocaust" to be a conscious and premeditated campaign to insinuate or overtly assign guilt to them. If you don't think that is the case, then YOU have got some missionary work to do to convince the enumerated parties that the "the Holocaust" isn't just a campaign of psychological aggression intended to shame or humiliate them into acceding to someone else's political agenda. DBC DECLARATION DISCLAIMER == CTRL is a discussion and informational exchange list. Proselyzting propagandic screeds are not allowed. Substancenot soapboxing! These are sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory', with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright frauds is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credeence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply. Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector. To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email: SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED] Om
[CTRL] Fwd: [priory-of-sion] Conversations with M.Dagobert 12/12/98
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Today, December 12, I had a few hours conversation with Roger-Rene' Dagobert de' Groucy. The direct and treu descendant of Dagobert II. I will share some of the conversation here in this post. The story is his and not mine. Anyone interested in direct contact with M.Dagobert, please e-mail me for his e-mail and postal address, as he has much to offer. He states with certainty that the M. Pierre' Plantard is an imposter and explained in detail, some which I did not fully understand, Plantard's reason for the impersonation. But centers on money and power. He also claims the Priory of Sion does NOT exist in modern day, but is the creation of Plantard and friends for semi-political prupose and to be used to claim what it rightfully in the Dagobert family. M.Daogbert explains that the "treasure" of Rennes -Le- Chateau was first discovered by Dagobert II's second wife, Giselle de Razes, after they were married at RLC. It was NOT found prior to that, so it is both Merovingian and Visigoth by marriage. The wealth he discovered there financed the reconquest of Aquitaine, and many other military and political operations throughout history. This is the same treasure rediscovered by Boudet/Saunier and in time, the Nazi SS discovered the same wonderful treasure of RLC. There are many names involved here including Napolean and Mitteraund. The treasure seems to have been known by a select few and it is so vast a treasure, that it does have the power to change history, via financing military and political situations. The treasure, as M. Dagobert explained to me is a massive gold and iron mine in the area of Rennes Le Chateau, first discovered by Giselle. M.Dagobert has what he considers his own "incontrovertible truth" to all of this and is sending me all his paperwork and notes on said subject. I was speaking to him with the help of an interpretor, and even though I am American and do not speak French, I could hear the excitement and certainty in his voice. Both he and his wife laughed at my questioning of Plantard and the Priory. His explaination of a gold mine fits as well into the picture as all the other theories. Explains Sauniers little nature walks etc. Also Saunier was corrupted by money and his little forrays with occult/esoteric Parisian society, henceforth the deathbed denial of absolution. Also can be construed as the secret in Poussin's letter. If anyone on the list is fluent in French, I advise you to write him, he is a true and recognized descendant of Dagobert and has many answers to our riddle. He claims this is the same treasure that financed the SS, it is the Nazi Gold of myth. He is eager to speak, but a bit cautious and NOT out to make money. After a few years of being enthralled by this subject, I too wanted to believe it was more than just this. I am not disappointed in what I have learned, it is still a fascinating subject. But at this point I have a better time believing a Dagobert descendant than the always suspect Plantard. I await the letters and papers from M.Dagobert, when I get them, I will most certainly share with you all. I am not writing a book, nor do I have a hidden agenda of my own. I was as curious as you and had to find someone closer to this subject, than those who have written books in the past. Holy Blood, Holy Grail would not have even existed if this is the true story and would not have made as much money for the authors. I wonder why no one else contacted him, unless they did, and thought sensationalism would outsell truth at Barnes and Noble. Odd how a Dagobert exists and all these authors left THAT stone unturned. Could M.Dagobert by lying? maybe. Could HE be the real PoS? Again..maybe, but judging by his reaction to the questions I asked him and how he seemed pleased someone from the States was talking to him, I think not. He seemed a very learned man with no air of elitism or negative attitude. I reiterate, I will put those with a sincere agenda in direct contact with M.Dagobert. I explained the PoS list to him and he was unaware of its existance. This was a wonderful conversation and I am glad I made the call. Peace...Dog At last! The perfect gifts for baseball fans...or anyone. Merchandise from the Sonoma County Crushers, champions of the Western Baseball League (USA). Go to http://www.icatmall.com/crushers
[CTRL] Fwd: [priory-of-sion] Re: Conversations with M.Dagobert 12/12/98
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cazzy Dog If you believe the gold mine story, I got some Bottom Land in Florida I would love to sell you. At the Bottom of a swamp. For the last century treasure seekers have reeked havoc in the area of RLC. They have destroyed religious artifacts, blown holes in landscape and ravaged the land. I saw a show on either AE or the learning channel that showed some of the damage. I assure you if there was a gold mine it would be common knowledge and played out by now. The story you were given is just a blind. As I have said in an earlier posting alot of the secrets are at the end of ones nose. Or as we use to say in my younger druggie days, Where is the best place to hind your stash in a car? The answer:: right on your dash board. Nobody looks there. Daemon Madus At last! The perfect gifts for baseball fans...or anyone. Merchandise from the Sonoma County Crushers, champions of the Western Baseball League (USA). Go to http://www.icatmall.com/crushers
[CTRL] Fwd: [priory-of-sion] Re: Conversations with M.Dagobert 12/12/98
From: Derek Hiemforth [EMAIL PROTECTED] CazzyDog and all - This is certainly not intended to be an attack on CazzyDog, and I hope no one takes it as such. I have no reason to believe the person CazzyDog spoke to is not who they claim to be. But I think there are some questions that need to be answered before accepting everything he has to say, so I'll go ahead and pose some of them. Call it devil's advocate if you like. :-) I realize that these questions would best go to M. Dagobert himself, but as I am not fluent in French, perhaps someone can get answers on behalf of those of us on the list who do not speak the language. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Today, December 12, I had a few hours conversation with Roger-Rene' Dagobert de' Groucy. The direct and treu descendant of Dagobert II. [snip] he is a true and recognized descendant of Dagobert Recognized by who? I thought the orthodox historical position was that DagobertII didn't have any heirs. On what grounds should we accept his claim to legitimacy as any more serious than Plantard's? He states with certainty that the M. Pierre' Plantard is an imposter and explained in detail, some which I did not fully understand, Plantard's reason for the impersonation. But centers on money and power. He also claims the Priory of Sion does NOT exist in modern day, but is the creation of Plantard and friends for semi-political prupose and to be used to claim what it rightfully in the Dagobert family. Without a throne (or presumably lands, etc.), what sort of money or power would Plantard and his cronies steal from the Dagobert family? Ie, what money or power rightfully belonging to the Dagoberts is there, and how much of it (if any) did Plantard get? I can understand the idea that Plantard was hoping to create a strong enough modern myth that some kind of formality monarchy was restored to France, and he hoped to be the one crowned when that happened. But since nothing came of that, so what? Why is Plantard signifigant to the Dagoberts? Was he some actual threat to them or their goals? Are they also trying to restore the Merovingians to the throne of France? M.Daogbert explains that the "treasure" of Rennes -Le- Chateau was first discovered by Dagobert II's second wife, Giselle de Razes, after they were married at RLC. It was NOT found prior to that, so it is both Merovingian and Visigoth by marriage. The wealth he discovered there financed the reconquest of Aquitaine, and many other military and political operations throughout history. This is the same treasure rediscovered by Boudet/Saunier and in time, the Nazi SS discovered the same wonderful treasure of RLC. There are many names involved here including Napolean and Mitteraund. The treasure seems to have been known by a select few and it is so vast a treasure, that it does have the power to change history, via financing military and political situations. The treasure, as M. Dagobert explained to me is a massive gold and iron mine in the area of Rennes Le Chateau, first discovered by Giselle. This simply does not seem believable to me. Here are a few reasons why it doesn't seem believable to me: 1. Mining on a scale large enough to have financed "many...military and political operations throughout history" would be known by everyone in the area. Even if it was mined carefully, people would have become suspicious over time of where this wealth was coming from, and others would have found it. 2. Gold fever is a common ailment. Sooner or later, someone who knew about the mine would have let their greed get to them and either been so obvious that the secret got out, or they would have bled the mine dry. 3. Sauniere (as far as I know) and Boudet (likewise) were not associated with gold, ever. With as many people have researched the RLC mystery for the last century, someone would have uncovered witnesses who saw gold being exchanged, etc. 4. If Plantard knows enough to be a serious threat to the Dagoberts, then he probably also knows where the mine is. This undercuts the idea that Plantard was fooling people for money. 5. If the source of Sauniere's money was gold, Marie Denaraud would have known about it (and would probably have helped him). If she had access to gold, she would not have lived her later years on the charity of others. 6. There were a lot of Nazis. If they had mining operations going on there, one of them would have either spilled the beans by now, or tried to get it himself. 7. In order for this to be true, the vein could never have been discovered (after Gizelle found it) by anyone outside the "clique" of those in the know and allowed to use the mine. If it was, they would have no reason to keep it secret, and would have gotten rich off of it. 8. If the source of Sauniere's money was gold, he could have just said so to avoid clerical wrath. Church Official: "Father, where did you get all this money?" Sauniere: "I found some gold in the hills."
[CTRL] Fwd: [priory-of-sion] Re: Conversations with M.Dagobert 12/12/98
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Derek, First off, though your points are valid, they are points. The area is said to be covered by a home today, for reasons. There was a falling out with Plantard and M.Dagobert's of some sort. M.Dagobert was not advertised, I have the ways and means to spend foolish money on fooloshi things. Large scale mining does not need the sizable operations you claim, if the vein is subterranean and pure. Boudet and Saunier would have hardly advertised much, let alone having gold. Let us not forget the statement, concerning DagobertII and the tresure being his. Perhaps marie was not as privy as we are lead to believe. I understand a church involvement in these matters also. I will keep you informed...do the correct research, spend some money and do not armchair so much.Peace At last! The perfect gifts for baseball fans...or anyone. Merchandise from the Sonoma County Crushers, champions of the Western Baseball League (USA). Go to http://www.icatmall.com/crushers
[CTRL] Fwd: Hillary's Brother, Lawyer Enriched by Tobacco Litigation
Subject: HUGH RODHAM, HILLARY'S BROTHER, TO GET MILLIONS FROM TOBACCO From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Dr. Jai Maharaj) Date: Wed, Dec 9, 1998 20:02 EST Message-id: [EMAIL PROTECTED] HUGH RODHAM, BROTHER OF HILLARY, TO GET $ MILLIONS FROM TOBACCO By Holman W. Jenkins Jr. The Wall Street Journal Wednesday, December 9, 1998 At the End of Tobacco Road The whole usefulness of an economy is to make people better off, but sometimes we need help from the tweaking hand. For decades tobacco litigation has made a lot of lawyers a little better off, but the benefits were too dispersed to yield the full measure of satisfaction. With last month's settlement of the state Medicaid suits, a remedy has been vouchsafed: Lawyers will benefit more than ever from tobacco, but not such a wide swath of them to dilute the joy. No, it will be a concentrated dose, an initial shot of $1.25 billion and then perhaps $500 million a year, administered directly to the bank accounts of a few hundred individuals. In Texas, attorneys have just redone their sums and concluded they're owed $25 billion, 10 times what they were asking a week ago. Florida is still wrangling over an exact amount, but at a dinner attended by Governor Chiles, they were told "You can send in a bill for a billion and a half, and no one will care," according to one of those present. Hugh Rodham, brother of Hillary, expects to receive tens of millions--enough to make a material change in the circumstances of this formerly not very successful attorney, politician and sometime radio host. Normally we like think of an industry also making its customers better off, and what would make the millions who are going to smoke anyway better off? A safer cigarette. Here we have a case of government failure, not market failure. One state attorney general who trails less than the usual dense cloud of hypocrisy is Colorado's Gale Norton. She didn't sue on hokey, legally fraudulent Medicaid grounds. She sued under consumer and antitrust laws, citing what she calls industry "collusion" in keeping a safer cigarette off the market. She also offers a regret about last month's settlement: It contains no immunity provision that would have loosened the hold of the industry's legal departments and let its undoubted research prowess flow in the direction of developing a truly safer product. "I'm not an antismoking extremist," she says. Our legal system is the reason the intensely competitive cigarette industry, unlike all others, does not seek to win customers with better products. A safer cigarette would have to deliver enough addictive nicotine to keep smokers happy; otherwise nobody would smoke it. Yet the cigarette companies were forbidden to acknowledge in words that you could hear what everyone knows, that people smoke for nicotine. To create a safer cigarette, they would have to identify which ingredients in smoke cause the worst hazards, but that would be tantamount to admitting cigarettes were a health hazard. We know from industry documents that, by the 1950s, powerful voices were already acknowledging the universally recognized dangers of smoking and calling internally for research to mitigate the risks. Companies even made substantial progress, reducing benzopyrene, a carcinogen, to safer levels. But in our legal system, we were already evolving toward a theory of liability that says somebody must pay for every bad thing that happens, regardless of actual responsibility. The industry's lawyers insisted it couldn't afford to acknowledge that bad things happen from smoking. Any industry forced to feign ignorance of the essential character of its product will, necessarily, behave in strange ways. To throw the estimates in the air, some 20 million customers have died from smoking since the 1960s. If the automobile had remained as dangerous as it was 35 years ago, last year's highway death toll would have been 135,000 rather than 41,500. Do we suppose unfettered competition among makers of nicotine delivery systems could not have accomplished a similar degree of technological progress? But, hey, we must weigh this against the need of tobacco lawyers to make a living. Whether from careful design or a succession of witless accidents, government policy has decided that tobacco progress should be measured in legal fees and tax dollars, not in safer products. Now we've come full circle. The tobacco companies were being sued because they didn't develop a safer cigarette, which they didn't because they were afraid of being sued. In the Washington state case, lawyers at Brown Williamson were shown quashing a high-nicotine tobacco, capable of giving more kick for less tar, fearing it would give ammunition for lawsuits. Over at Liggett Myers, executives were pressured by industry mates to drop project XA, a tobacco with fewer noxious elements, because it might sully the industry's legal defenses. Hardly better were Premier, Eclipse and Accord, supposedly safer brands marketed
[CTRL] Fwd: Konformist: Sherman Skolnick Sounds Off! / 11-20-1998
Please send as far and wide as possible. Thanks, Robert Sterling Editor, The Konformist http://www.konformist.com http://www.konformist.com/skolnick/skolnick.htm http://www.konformist.com/skolnick/ss112098.htm Sherman H. Skolnick Recorded phone message: (773) 731-1000 Office, 8 A.M. to midnight, 7 days: (773) 375-5741 9800 So. Oglesby Ave., Chicago IL 60617-4870 11-20-1998 IRS AND CLINTON COVER UP BRIBERY FOR ILLINOIS GOVERNOR By Sherman H. Skolnick Producer/Moderator, Public Access Cable TV Program "Broadsides" Since 1963, Founder/Chairman, Citizen's Committee to Clean Up the Courts Illinois' new governor, George H. Ryan, reportedly won the 1998 election by bribery. Since 1990, Ryan had been Illinois Secretary of State, a position long known to be part of massive corruption. A number of previous occupants of that office, that is in charge of the State's drivers license and vehicle plates facilities, were shown to be corrupt. A previous Secretary of State, Paul Powell, siphoned off millions of dollars which were kept in shoe-boxes in his closet in his apartment. Applications for licenses and such sent to his office showed that the remittances were to be made out to his name. Apparently he literally thought the money was for him personally. The Illinois Secretary of State has had a long reported tradition of corruptly issuing untraceable license plates for gangsters' vehicles. A large portion of the nation's interstate "chop shop" business is centered as well in Illinois. "Chop shops" steal cars, often with harmless appearing tow trucks targeting cars in shopping malls, for the purpose of dismantling the vehicle and using and selling the parts. A previous Illinois Secretary of State, who later became a US Senator, was, with his family, reportedly himself in these lucrative criminal enterprises. A competing "chop shop" operator, who grumbled too loud about that corrupt state official, was conveniently assassinated. Assisting the immunity of "chop shop" operators are some corrupt FBI agents who are silent partners in these interstate rackets. As we pointed out on our public access Cable TV Program "Broadsides" prior to the 1998 election, George H. Ryan reportedly meets from time to time with gangster-linked cronies in Jamaica, an island long-known for smuggling "ganja", high quality marijuana, into the US. [A good question: does Ryan know anything about the dope traffic flooding Illinois?] According to polls, Republican candidate for Illinois Governor Ryan was running neck-in-neck with candidate Glenn Poshard, a Democrat US Congressman from a far downstate district. Ryan was ahead by an estimated six percent of the expected vote. Two Third Party candidates or hopefuls, of the Libertarian Party of Illinois and the US Taxpayers Party, were fielding candidates as well for Governor. One of them, Jim Tobin, Libertarian, was believed to be quite popular and apparently had ample funds for advertising his campaign. Between them, the two Third Party candidates were expected to garner 8 or 9 percent of the vote. Ryan's campaign advisors reportedly informed him that this Third Party vote would be subtracted from the expected vote for him, making Democrat Poshard the expected winner. As traditional for all the years in the US, a forest of obscure laws awaits any would-be Third Party candidate [assuming that votes for such a candidate are actually correctly counted, which is a wrong assumption]. In Europe, to their credit, Third Party candidates get on the ballot without a blitzkrieg of legalities targeting them. The US Supreme Court, carrying out the wishes of the Establishment's two often similar parties, has failed once and for all to adequately strike down, as unconstitutional, all the State laws making it often near impossible for Third Parties to get on the ballot. Rulings by lower court federal judges, often banker-judges tied to large financial enterprises, are routinely upheld by the high court refusing to consider such Third Party cases. Most states require the circulation of more Third Party petitions than that of the two Establishment parties. A variety of legal-sounding excuses are given, such as the Third Party is not a "serious" entity. Despite this legal battlefield dedicated to blowing them up on the way to getting on the ballot, some Third Party candidates or hopefuls do succeed in getting on the ballot, especially when the expected vote for them does isfaction with the platforms of the two "regular" parties, was expected in Illinois to make the best showing in years. Candidate petitions to get on the ballot were scrutinized as never before. Despite that, the party had more than enough valid petitions. The Illinois State Board of Elections rejected the petitions of the Libertarian Party of Illinois. The Cook County Judge, that hears such election board matters, upheld their ruling. To further deter the Libertarian Party, the Election Board recommended that
