[CTRL] Old-Time Religion

[Vera Harper]

-Caveat Lector-

December 11, 2000


Old-time religion competes with new-age concentration gap
By Larry Witham
THE WASHINGTON TIMES


 Most Americans believe the Bible is more factual than newspapers #8212; not 
necessarily much of an endorsement #8212; but find their daily newspapers far easier 
to read. Top Stories
#8226; Divided court finds recounts unconstitutional
#8226; Democratic support begins to crumble
#8226; Florida House OKs Bush electors
#8226; Democrats won't disclaim Jackson's remarks
#8226; Daschle denies blocking bill on military voting
#8226; D.C. police prepare for protests at inauguration
#8226; CDC report links TB, immigrants


 This ambivalence toward the ancient Scripture, confirmed in a recent survey, 
suggests Americans are more willing to enter the complex Bible world if they find it 
packaged palatably and easy to grasp, scholars and publishers say.
 "For years, Gallup polls have found that huge majorities believe the Bible to be 
God's word, but a far smaller segment read it regularly," says Jeff Sheler, author of 
"Is the Bible True?"
 When Americans say they believe in the Bible, Mr. Sheler says, "Are they merely 
reflecting a cultural assumption or a personal experience, having read it or applied 
it to their lives?"
 Whether Americans are truly Bible-literate in a era of slipshod literacy 
standards, more than eight in 10 U.S. adults told the survey that the Bible's ancient 
stories speak to today #8212; and can solve "most or all" of life's problems.
 The independent market survey of 1,000 representative U.S. adults was 
commissioned by Zondervan, the world's largest publisher of Bibles. It was released 
for National Bible Week ending Nov. 26, but also shows the publisher's ear for what 
Americans want in a Bible.
 Most adults trust that the Bible got "its facts straight" more than newspapers or 
even history books. But two-thirds find a supermarket tabloid easier reading. The 
survey also found:
 #8226; The hardest part of the Bible "to read and understand" is the creation 
account in Genesis.
 #8226; Adults most often say the Bible's great value is in teaching children 
right and wrong, with David and Goliath the most memorable story and the Good 
Samaritan the best for moral instruction.
 #8226; Eighty percent agree that Bible language can be "confusing," and welcome 
modern translation. Most say that different parts of the Bible speak to different 
people and needs #8212; and thus approve of specialty Bible materials.
 For the past decade, the story in Bible publishing has been customized versions 
aimed at different ages, sexes, ethnic groups, professions and theological persuasions.
 One growing format is the Bible anthology, such as Tyndale House's "The One Year 
Bible." It covers the entire Bible by giving excerpts from the Old and New Testaments, 
Psalms and Proverbs each day.
 Presidential candidate George W. Bush reads this version, and friends say the 
pithy Proverbs have guided his decisions.
 In 1999, Aug. 20 was the day after the toughest grilling by reporters on rumors 
of Mr. Bush's cocaine use. "The One Year Bible" reading that day included Proverbs 
21:23: "If you keep your mouth shut, you will stay out of trouble." Mr. Bush did so 
and the story faded.
 When the Florida recount battle began after Election Day, "The One Year Bible" 
text for Nov. 8 was Proverbs 27:10: "Never abandon a friend #8212; either yours or 
your father's. Then in your time of need, you won't have to ask relatives for 
assistance."
 That day Mr. Bush asked James A. Baker III #8212; secretary of state in his 
father's administration #8212; to lead the Florida fight.
 Zondervan, which publishes the easy-to-read New International Version (NIV), 
markets Bibles in the categories of study, devotional, youth, children, specialty and 
gift. Its "NIrV" kids Bible reads at a third-grade level. A teen version includes 500 
questions and answers.
 The finding that Americans tend to say "no single Bible can meet everyone's 
needs" is good news for publishing #8212; but also reflects the Christian Bible's 
structure.
 "The Bible is not a book, it's a library," Mr. Sheler says. Because it features 
poetry, genealogy, prophecy, legal codes, parables, proverbs, theology and history, 
"You can't read one portion the same as another," he says.
 Mr. Sheler's book, called one of 1999's best by Christianity Today, has the tone 
of a journalist investigating what current textual and archaeological research says of 
Bible factuality.
 "Those parts that present themselves as history, when put under critical study, 
show themselves to be remarkably reliable," Mr. Sheler says, referring to accounts of 
the Israelites, the life of Christ and the early church.
 "The Genesis story would be hard to understand for Americans who are 
sophisticated and familiar with science," he says. But it's an example of what 
believing 

Re: [CTRL] Jesus was a Liberal

[Vera Harper]

-Caveat Lector-

Right on Mulva! Don't let the pagans silence you, what you said is absolutely right. 
Jesus was not a liberal by today's standards, as some idgets claim. I never heard 
Jesus preach that abortion was a woman's God-given right to choose, or that 
homosexuality was a choice everyone needed to make. God never said that it was OK to 
get your weewee sucked on the job; as long as it wasn't REAL sex. He never said it was 
good to lie, cheat or steal, as long as it benefitted your political career. Never 
feeling secure enough in the truth to apply Jesus' teaching to real life is exactly 
what these unbelievers do every day. So, it is easy to understand how naive they are 
and how sadly misled. Keep up the good work. God bless you, Jessie

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[CTRL] A Sad Day for Democracy

[Steve Wingate]

-Caveat Lector-

http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/3750/bush.htm

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Re: [CTRL] Election2000: Hegelian Style

[Vera Harper]

-Caveat Lector-

Jason, you may indeed have an I.Q. above 70,(maybe), but you still have no idea of 
what is going on. All the votes weren't counted? What planet are you from? So we don't 
count illegal ballots with no choice for president or double-punched ballots to negate 
a vote for president(As long as I've been voting, it was clear that if you didn't want 
to vote for a candidate or ballot initiative, don't leave it blank, but punch two 
holes to keep unscrupulous people from voting for you.) These voter error votes don't 
count in any state or county in America. Are these idiots, like you, the ones we have 
to explain ourselves to? If you can't figure out how to vote, don't vote. The country 
will be better off.

From CBNnow web-based E-mail, part of the growing CBNnow web presence. CBNnow, your 
source for news, information, and inspiration in the new millenium.

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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Re: [CTRL] A Sad Day for Democracy

[Vera Harper]

-Caveat Lector-

Steve, I urge you to accept the law of the land, as we must do as a republic. The 
popular vote means squat, as we are not a democracy(for good reason). Even Gore spouts 
"The law of the land", which only makes him a republic-an. Or he did when he thought 
it suited him. Poor baby, when you are a liar, it comes back to bite you in the ass. 
OUCH! So sorry! Bush wins and he should! He is an awesome man. Soon you will see that 
anyone who places their trust in God prevails. Learn from that never-dying truth.

From CBNnow web-based E-mail, part of the growing CBNnow web presence. CBNnow, your 
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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[CTRL] News updates from Stewart Swerdlow

[Ole Gerstrøm]

News Updates by Stewart Swerdlow www.stewartswerdlow.com 
Chirac Attack French President Chirac said to an EU summit 
that January 1, 2003 is an important day. By then, the EU will have 
completed an overhaul of its institutions and rules. (In effect, it 
will be completely under NWO control.) Readers will remember my predictions 
for 2003 and how numbers are important to the Illuminati. The year 
2003 will be the 13th year of European unity after the Communist 
downfall. There are also 13 applicant countries tot he European 
Union. The summit is expected to end on December 13th. Readers 
should expect some global event to take place on this New Year's Day. The 
date 01/01/01 is numerologically important to the Illuminati. The 
numbers all add up to "3" and the year, 2001 adds up to "3." 
Wonder what they'll do??! Barak Attack Israeli Prime Minister Ehud 
Barak resigned this week while his nation struggles with violence and 
internal discord. This sets the stage for his opponent, Ariel Sharon, 
to gain office as Prime Minister. Sharon started the chain of violence 
by visiting the Dome of the Rock Moslem Holy Site and declaring it a future 
site of the New Jewish Temple. This incited the Palestinians to riot 
and desecrate Jewish Holy sites. Ariel Sharon promotes the expulsion 
and even extermination of the Arab population from the "Greater Israel" 
territory. Readers will recall my statements of Israel and China 
eliminating the fundamentalist Moslems. This, now, sets the stage for 
this to occur. Former Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu, known for his 
corruption and antagonism toward Arabs, is another viable candidate. 
Watch the sequence of events in the Middle East. Watch for a terrorist 
act that will provoke the Israelis to retaliate heavily outside their own 
territory. Slaves Needed! Due to the shortage of hard manual 
laborers in many industries, especially agriculture, the Feds are preparing 
to grant legal residency to up to 1 million illegal aliens from Latin 
America and the Caribbean. Of course, this is part of the "Global 
Citizenship" policy of the NWO and the Illuminati. They will receive 
the same rights and benefits as legal US residents. Gee, why bother 
having borders in the first place?? Another Media Death Ken Kagan, 
VP of Research at TNN, an affiliate of MTV Network, was found dead on the 
Long Island Railroad tracks at the Bethpage Station. The police are 
investigating this mysterious death which occurred shortly after 1AM last 
Friday. It was one day before his 53rd birthday. Mr. Kagan died 
on a railroad track at a station not on his regular train line. Police 
theorized that he missed his stop while coming home from a Christmas 
party. At 1:27AM another train reported debris on the track. No train 
conductor reported hitting anyone or anything. What makes this 
intriguing to me, beyond the last mysterious death of a journalist I 
reported on the week before, is that while I was in Minersville Federal 
Prison Camp in Pennsylvania, I shared a dormitory with a 50ish layer from 
New York named Phil Kagan. Phil was speaking out against the 
government. He was ill and not given the proper treatment. the 
drugs given to him made him delirious and fatigued. He died suddenly 
while in the care of Federal medical personnel. Are these two Kagans 
related? Ken Kagan played a key role in developing research 
information for advertising. What was he working on? What did he 
discover? Anyone out there with information on this incident, please 
contact me either through the website or via my email address: 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] It Has Begun! Readers will remember my 
warnings a few weeks ago about power shortages due to the release of 
reserves, and my predictions of severe weather from the Great Lakes to the 
Northeast. Well, it has begun. Seattle area newspapers are 
warning customers about severe power outages and low fuel supplies that are 
depleted. Cold waves in the Northwest have strained reserves that are 
normally bolstered by supplies from California. However, California is 
in trouble due to the severe heat of the past summer, as well as the cold 
snap that is using up their reserves. In addition, extreme cold and 
heavy snows have engulfed the Midwest and is moving east. Chicago 
airports have been virtually shut down. Buffalo New York experienced 
its third worst snowstorm in November. The season has just begun and I 
expect it to be a humdinger! Better finish knitting those comforters 
and saving candles! Further Strange Creature Reports There is a 
creature popping up along the Monogahla and Guyandotte Rivers in West 
Virginia. It is call Ogua or Agou by the local Indians. It is 
supposed to weigh 500lbs and be over 20 feet in length, reptilian-like, 
staying in underwater caves or under bridges by day, and venturing on land 
at dark where it captures deer with its long tail and drags them under water 
to drown, then eats it. These creatures were well known by the Indians 
in 

Re: [CTRL] For the record.

[nexusmagazine]

-Caveat Lector-

Well, I suppose you're right, everyone by now appreciates what grandiose
phonies Nexus and its editor are, little reason to keep baiting these two
dead fish.

I asked my local Newsagent to place Nexus in with the rest of the comics, we
both had a huge ROTFLOAO!!!   He's a pretty cluey sort, and finds it a
tremendous source of amusement that folks waste their hard-earned dollars on
such palpable rubbish.

Just having a brief peruse through CTRL archives, is more than enough for
most intelligent sorts to comprehend the fact that Nexus is purely an
extension of little Duncan's Fascist political agenda and psychotic persona.


Obviously NEXUS Magazine has pressed your buttons somewhat.

Care to elaborate on any example of what irks you so about the magazine's
contents, or is smear more your line of work?

And while we are on Fascist agendas, what do you think YOU are doing?

Duncan

Duncan M. Roads
Editor, NEXUS Magazine
PO Box 30, Mapleton Qld 4560 Australia
Tel: +61 (0)7 5442 9280;   Fax:  +61 (0)7 5442 9381
http://www.nexusmagazine.com  ICQ#62399259

"The nature of the universe is such that ends can never justify the means.
On the contrary, the means always determine the end."
(Aldous Huxley)

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Re: [CTRL] For the record.

[nexusmagazine]

-Caveat Lector-

I'm with you--we have two of them telling us to "read
their magazine or publication" right now and that
seems like commercials.

Grow up. If you think that my posts constitute advertising then you are
in error.  I own and the run the magazine and I will post to lists as I
see please.  If you ever see me posts blatant adverts or spam, then I
will deserve all the flak I get.  I am not into crass commercialism, as
anyone who reads the mag will tell you.

Duncan


Duncan M. Roads
Editor, NEXUS Magazine
PO Box 30, Mapleton Qld 4560 Australia
Tel: +61 (0)7 5442 9280;   Fax:  +61 (0)7 5442 9381
http://www.nexusmagazine.com  ICQ#62399259

"The nature of the universe is such that ends can never justify the means.
On the contrary, the means always determine the end."
(Aldous Huxley)

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==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] For duh record

[nexusmagazine]

-Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/12/2000 6:14:16 AM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 You obviously desire NEXUS and myself to
look bad to other readers on this list.

Actually Duncan, you are doing a great job of this all by yourself.

Tsadowq


Another example of someone who doesn't want to engage in anything other
than smear and personal attack.

Obviously another person that NEXUS has upset.

I have read your posts Tsadowq, and they are pretty smelly.  Your style
is one of attack and smear.  You do not contribute anything of value.
You sound like a shallow, threatened and insecure personality who just
likes to see his pseudonym in print.

I invite you to discuss what irks you so much about myself and the
magazine.  You can take it private if you don't want to give me more
publicity, or you can keep it public if you are up to it.

In other words, Put up or Shut up!

Duncan


Duncan M. Roads
Editor, NEXUS Magazine
PO Box 30, Mapleton Qld 4560 Australia
Tel: +61 (0)7 5442 9280;   Fax:  +61 (0)7 5442 9381
http://www.nexusmagazine.com  ICQ#62399259

"The nature of the universe is such that ends can never justify the means.
On the contrary, the means always determine the end."
(Aldous Huxley)

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Looking behind the Bushes

[Steve Wingate]

-Caveat Lector-

Looking behind the Bushes

Great moments in a great American family


"Some people have too much freedom." -- George W. Bush

Much of this article originally appeared in the Progressive Review during
the 1992 campaign. It has been updated

THE CURRENT CAMPAIGN

DUBYA AS A SECOND LANGUAGE

BUSH'S RUNNING MATE

1918

Prescott Bush Sr., leads a raid on a Indian tomb to secure Geronimo's skull
for Skull  Bones.

1937

Prescott Bush's investment firm sets up deal for the Luftwaffe so it can
obtain tetraethyl lead.

1942

Three firms with which Prescott Bush is associated are seized under the
Trading with the Enemy Act.

SARASOTA HERALD-TRIBUNE: The president of the Florida Holocaust
Museum said Saturday that George W. Bush's grandfather derived a
portion of his personal fortune through his affiliation with a Nazi-controlled
bank. John Loftus, a former prosecutor in the Justice Department's Nazi
War Crimes Unit, said his research found that Bush's grandfather, Prescott
Bush, was a principal in the Union Banking Corp. in Manhattan in the late
1930s and the 1940s. Leading Nazi industrialists secretly owned the bank
at that time, Loftus said, and were moving money into it through a second
bank in Holland even after the United States declared war on Germany.
The bank was liquidated in 1951, Loftus said, and Bush's grandfather and
great-grandfather received $1.5 million from the bank as part of that
dissolution . . . Loftus pointed out that the Bush family would not be the only
American political dynasty to have ties to the "wrong side of World War II."
The Rockefellers had financial connections to Nazi Germany, he said.
Loftus also reminded his audience that John F. Kennedy's father, an
avowed isolationist and former ambassador to Great Britain, profited
during the 1930s and '40s from Nazi stocks that he owned. "No one today
blames the Democrats because Jack Kennedy's father bought Nazi
stocks," Loftus said. Still, he said, it is important to understand these
historical connections for what they tell us about politics today. The World
War II experience points out how easy it was then -- and remains today -- to
hide money in multinational funds.

SARASOTA HERALD TRIBUNE

1953

George Bush and the Liedtke brothers form Zapata Petroleum. Zapata's
subsidiary, Zapata Offshore, later becomes known for its close ties to the
CIA.

1954

The Bush family buys out the Liedtke brothers.

1955

George Bush sets up a Mexican drilling operation, Permago, with a
frontman to obscure his ownership. The frontman later is convicted of
defrauding the Mexican government of $58 million.

1959

Manuel Noriega recruited as an agent by the US Defense Intelligence
Agency.

1960

Some investigators believe George Bush spent part of this year and the
next in Miami on behalf of the CIA, organizing rightwing exiles for an
invasion of Cuba. Is said to have worked with later Iran-Contra figure Felix
Rodriguez.

1961

According to the Realist, CIA official Fletcher Prouty delivers three Navy
ships to agents in Guatemala to be used in the Bay of Pigs invasion. Prouty
claims he delivered the ships to a CIA agent named George Bush. Agent
Bush named the ships the Barbara, Houston and Zapata.

Bay of Pigs invasion fails. Right-wingers blame Kennedy for failure to
provide air cover. CIA loses 15 men, another 1100 are imprisoned.

George Bush invites Rep. TL. Ashley -- a fellow Skull  Boner -- down to
Texas for a party in order to meet "an attractive girl." Bush writes that "she
may be accompanied by an Austrian ski instructor but I think we can
probably flush him at the local dance hall." Bush notes that he's had to unlist
his phone because "Jane Morgan keeps calling me all the time." [From a
letter in the Ashley archives uncovered by Spy magazine.]

Zapata annual report boasts that the company has paid no taxes since it
was founded.

1963

John F. Kennedy is assassinated. Internal FBI memo reports that on
November 22 "reputable businessman" George H. W. Bush reported
hearsay that a certain Young Republican "has been talking of killing the
president when he comes to Houston." The Young Republican was
nowhere near Dallas on that date.

According to a 1988 story in The Nation, a memo from J. Edgar Hoover
states that "Mr. George Bush of the CIA" had been briefed on November
23rd, 1963 about the reaction of anti-Castro Cuban exiles in Miami to the
assassination of President Kennedy. George says it ain't him, admits he
was in Texas but can't remember where.

1964

George Bush runs as a Goldwater Republican for Congress. Campaigns
against the Civil Rights Act.

1966

Bush, runs as a moderate Republican, gets elected to Congress. Robert
Mosbacher chairs Oil Men for Bush.

Apache leader Ned Anderson meets with the Skull  Bones lawyer and
George Bush's brother Jonathan who attempt to return the skull Prescott
Bush had looted in 1933. Anderson refuses the skull because he says it
isn't Geronimo's.

1968

George W. Bush joins Skull  Bones at Yale

[CTRL] ---big group hug---

[Tsadowq]

-Caveat Lector-

Previous thread: Re: [CTRL] For duh record

In a message dated 12/13/2000 3:18:44 AM Mountain
Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 In other words, Put up or Shut up! 

Duncan is apparently seeking some form of acceptance or
vindication, and has picked the CTRL list as the chosen
vessel to accomplish his task...Lucky us!

Publishing information on any controversial issue is bound to
propel any given author or editor into the bright interrogation
lights of public scrutiny; and Duncan's attempt to vindicate
himself on this list seems a bit silly -- if not ill-contrived.

How about if we all give Duncan a big group
hug, and maybe he will go away nicely?

Tsadowq

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Re: [CTRL] Dangers of the New Age movement

[Tenorlove]

-Caveat Lector-

--- Mark McHugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 I just gave that site a read and the one thing I'm happy to see is
 the
 header "Welcome to one Jew's analysis..."  If that hadn't been there,
 I would have mistaken this for some Xian fundie page.

Actually, the orthodox Jews and the Christian fundamentalists are in
the same camp when it comes to the New Age. Same with a few other
issues, but that is a different topic.


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Re: [CTRL] ---big group hug---

[Tenorlove]

-Caveat Lector-

What a great idea, Tsadowq!

passes homemade chocolate chip cookies through screen

Tenorlove


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Re: [CTRL] ---big group hug---

[nexusmagazine]

-Caveat Lector-

Publishing information on any controversial issue is bound to
propel any given author or editor into the bright interrogation
lights of public scrutiny; and Duncan's attempt to vindicate
himself on this list seems a bit silly -- if not ill-contrived.

How about if we all give Duncan a big group
hug, and maybe he will go away nicely?


I am still waiting for your scrutiny.  All I have read so far is smear.
I wonder why you want me to go away.  I thought this was a conspiracy
theory research list open to the public.  I notice from previous posts
that YOU avoid public scrutiny.  Why?
Thanks for the hug though.

Duncan


Duncan M. Roads
Editor, NEXUS Magazine
PO Box 30, Mapleton Qld 4560 Australia
Tel: +61 (0)7 5442 9280;   Fax:  +61 (0)7 5442 9381
http://www.nexusmagazine.com  ICQ#62399259

"The nature of the universe is such that ends can never justify the means.
On the contrary, the means always determine the end."
(Aldous Huxley)

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Re: [CTRL] ---big group hug---

[Ynr Chyldz Wyld]

-Caveat Lector-

From: "nexusmagazine" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Publishing information on any controversial issue is bound to
 propel any given author or editor into the bright interrogation
 lights of public scrutiny; and Duncan's attempt to vindicate
 himself on this list seems a bit silly -- if not ill-contrived.
 
 How about if we all give Duncan a big group
 hug, and maybe he will go away nicely?


 I am still waiting for your scrutiny.  All I have read so far is smear.
 I wonder why you want me to go away.  I thought this was a conspiracy
 theory research list open to the public.  I notice from previous posts
 that YOU avoid public scrutiny.  Why?
 Thanks for the hug though.

I for one welcome your presence on this list...

And I resent those who dictate what I can or can not read for myself.

If you don't like what Duncan posts, use your delete key; but don't try to impose 
censorship on this list.


June

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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Re: [CTRL] For duh record

[Ynr Chyldz Wyld]

-Caveat Lector-

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 In a message dated 12/12/2000 6:14:16 AM Mountain
 Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
  You obviously desire NEXUS and myself to
 look bad to other readers on this list.

 Actually Duncan, you are doing a great job of this all by yourself.

Actually Tsadowq, it's you and your cronies who are seeking to impose censorship on 
this list who are really
looking bad.

Duncan's posts will stand or fail on their own merit (or lack thereof); please allow 
the rest of us the
courtesy of being able to read them and make up our own minds on the matter.


June

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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Re: [CTRL] ---big group hug---

[Aleisha Saba]

-Caveat Lector-

Got one question Tsadowq - How do we know who Duncan is - anybody check
him out?  If he for real?

You would expect such a man as the Great Duncan to refrain from entering
into what is something like the people's mailbag?

Occasionally I discovered, someone is writing to me pretending to be
someone else I know..so who would do such a thing?

Nexus and Ickes maybe in same boat?   Next thing you know we will have
Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Larry Flynt, etc, etc., posting to CTRL
and wouldn't that be fun - even Al Gore getting in on the act?

So how do we know Duncan who makes small bucks and spends big bucks, is
for real?

Out of Australia - the land down under - depending I gues from where you
stand, anyway is something wrong here?

Saba

Never heard of an Editor invading someone else's mailbag with personal
opinions against a writer..

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Re: [CTRL] ---big group hug---

[Ynr Chyldz Wyld]

-Caveat Lector-

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Duncan is apparently seeking some form of acceptance or
 vindication, and has picked the CTRL list as the chosen
 vessel to accomplish his task...Lucky us!

And does that also explain YOUR presence here?   To seek some form of acceptance or 
vindication?


 How about if we all give Duncan a big group
 hug, and maybe he will go away nicely?

I will gladly give Duncan a hug, but I hope that he stays and continues to contribute 
to list, rather than
caving in to censors like yourself.


June

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[CTRL] Fwd: Barak Risks Everything - Including Sharon and Regional War (Part 2)

[Aleisha Saba]

Barak risks everything?How do they count votes over there anyway -
remember he hires same PR man as Gore and Clionton and next thknow he
will be singing and dancing in streets,sending in the music makers.


Saba




   ___      __
  /  |/  /  /___/  / /_ //M I D - E A S T   R E A L I T I E S
 / /|_/ /  /_/_   / /\\ Making Sense of the Middle East
/_/  /_/  /___/  /_/  \\   http://www.MiddleEast.Org

  News, Information,  Analysis That Governments, Interest Groups,
 and the Corporate Media Don't Want You To Know!
  *  *  *  *  *  *  *
  IF YOU DON'T GET MER, YOU JUST DON'T GET IT!
 To receive MER regularly email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]




 LABOR ZIONISTS RISK EVERYTHING, EVEN SHARON COMING TO POWER - Part 2

MID-EAST REALITIES - www.MiddleEast.Org - Washington - 12/13:
   The Labor Party all fell into line Monday.  The so called doves were transformed
into scrawny chickens endorsing Ehud Barak as their champion for the February
elections he called by resigning from the same position he will now seek again.

   The Likud will meet on 19 December to decide on its champion, Netanyahu likely
to reclaim the mantle from Ariel Sharon.  But even so it will take a Knesset
act, which the current government is strenuous working behind the scenes to oppose,
to allow non-Knesset member Netanyahu to be on the ballot opposing Barak under
these manipulated circumstances.
   Barak can only win at this point by getting the "Arab vote".   But as the
following articles suggest, that is going to be very difficult.  And as much
as Arafat would probably like to come to his aid, his ability to do so is severely
constrained now by Palestinian public opinion, and his authority even if he does
is not necessarily going to result in people doing what they are told this time.
 Arafat's trump card, he may be thinking, is his encouraging of one of the Arab
Knesset members, Ahmed Tibi, to announce his own candidacy for Prime Minister.
 The likihood is that as things get down to the wire, as Barak is about to be
defeated at the polls, Arafat could make some kind of secret deal and then instruct
Tibi to withdraw his candidacy leaving at least some of the Arab vote for Barak.
 It is another sign of the desperation and recklessness of Prime Minister
Barak that he takes such gambles not just with his own, but with his country's,
future.   It is also a sign that for General Barak, unlike for so many others,
General Sharon is not really that different than himself, just much less acceptible
to public opinion.



BARAK SUMMARILY REINSTALLED: SUPPORTING AND CRYING
 By Sima Kadmon

[Yediot Aharonot - 12 December, Page 1]:When members of the Labor Party Central
Committee were asked yesterday to vote in favor of Barak's candidacy, the prime
minister sent a furtive glance to the first row.

Right opposite him sat Haim Ramon. He raised his hand. It was not an enthusiastic
wave.  Ramon raised his hand high enough for the teacher to see but low enough
so the guys wouldn't laugh at him. Barak smiled a small smile: he could count
on Haim.

Outside, by the gate, stood Avraham Burg. He did not come to vote, he said, in
protest that dozens of central committee members were not allowed into the hall.
Burg would not miss any opportunity to cause a provocation. If he is not the
hit of the party, he will at least make sure to break it up. Shimon Peres was
absent. His
own mother could not have better written Beilin’s speech in defense of the Prime
Minister. Prof. Shlomo Ben-Ami's appearance was somewhat strange, not to say
bizarre. He spoke as if he was at the lectern of a history department seminar
and not on the stage of the central committee meeting. He shouted as if he was
talking to Cmdr. Aharonishki, not to Labor Party youth. Of all the senior party
members, only one abstained from voting. That was Uzi Baram. All the rest voted
in favor.   Supporting and crying…

No one in the Labor Party can be proud of what happened there last night. Not
Ehud Barak, who used democratic tools in an undemocratic manner, not the Labor
Party doves, who looked more like chickens yesterday, and not the central committee
members who were cynically used as pawns by the party chairman. A few hundred
votes of the Labor Party yesterday determined that no one would run against Barak.
Senior Labor Party members provided a thousand and one reasons why they had no
choice but to accept the party line. But there is only one real reason: there
is still nobody else who can run against Ehud Barak.

Those who enter politics should have been at the two most important political
events that took place yesterday -- the approval of sole candidate Barak in the
Labor Party and Netanyahu's announcement of his running for prime minister --
to convince them to flee while they still can. Two people who failed, and are
trying to sell their failures as successes.  Both 

Re: [CTRL] ---big group hug---

[Ynr Chyldz Wyld]

-Caveat Lector-

From: "Aleisha Saba" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Got one question Tsadowq - How do we know who Duncan is - anybody check
 him out?  If he for real?

Are you?

Am I?

It's hard for ANYONE on the Internet to 'prove' they are who they claim to be...

Whether Duncan is or is not who he claims to be doesn't matter...his posts should be 
allowed to stand or fall
on their own...


June

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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Re: [CTRL] ---big group hug---

[Kelly]

-Caveat Lector-

Aleisha Saba wrote:

 Never heard of an Editor invading someone else's mailbag with personal
 opinions against a writer..

Not sure what you mean by 'mailbag', but the editor of Fortean Times is
on the Forteana list, as are many of its writers, although the list is
owned by a person not associated with the magazine.

Kelly

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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[CTRL] Hey Duncan - That really you?

[Aleisha Saba]

So Duncan you said you made little bucks and spend big bucks?

Get a load of the price he wants for Sex in America.bet Bob Dole
bought this one and I say,  it is the Yankee Doodle buck they are after?

Let Duncan spend his own bucks?   Is that really you Duncan or do we
have imposter on list?

Saba

Get a load of this one:

NEXUS MAGAZINE
 QRS
REVIEWED BY DUNCAN ROADS
NEXUS MAGAZINE
February- March 1999
 
The Quantronic Resonance System (QRS) has been extensively tested by
leading European universities on thousands of people for over 20 years.
The results are spectacular! It is currently being used by hundreds of
practicing medical doctors around the world, including dozens in
Australia. ft Basically, you lay on a mat (which has three pairs of
coils inside) while an automatic control unit produces a pulsing
magnetic field which penetrates the body without any harmful
side-effects.
The effect is felt at a cellular level. From the entire energy produced
by a cell, approximately
50 % are used for the development of the electric potential at the cell
membrane. The cell needs this 70-90 millivolt (mV) potential to regulate
the metabolism. If this power declines only slightly below 70 mV, the
metabolism is already strongly impeded, leading to deficiency in energy
and performance and premature cytolysis. Chronic diseases develop if
this energy deficiency is concentrated in certain cell structures or
organs.
Because the QRS's frequency pattern corresponds with man's biological
window and, through resonance, bathes the organism with field
intensities of between 0.15 and 15 mT (microtesla), each body cell
suffering from energy deficits is addressed. Overdoses can not take
place because cells have their own regulation mechanism and only accept
the energy supply they need.
So what does this all mean? Well, dramatically increased (up to 80 per
cent) oxygenation of the body, for one thing, as well as increased
bloods circulation and increased calcium influx into the cells.
The testimonials from doctors alone indicate that the device is
achieving spectacular results for patients. But, after two 8-minute
sessions per day, I can personally attest to the Viagra-like effects
resulting from increased oxygen in the blood! In fact, I was so
impressed with the device that I bought one, and now sell them through
the magazine.
They really are that good!
Price: AUD$3,600.00
Available: Australia-NEXUS Magazine,
DUNCAN ROADS
P0 Box 30, Mapleton Qld 4560, Tel (07)
5442 9280, fax (07) 5442 9381




http://www.qrsamerica.com/Nexus.htm

[CTRL] The reality of Duncan Roads

[Dale Stonehouse]

-Caveat Lector-

 Got one question Tsadowq - How do we know who Duncan is - anybody check
 him out?  If he for real?

I'm  NOT Tsadowq but Duncan is as real as anyone else here. Unless
one thinks it is possible to publish a magazine for over 10 years and run
book publishers on three continents without being real.

He is also the son of MIchael J. Roads, the esteemed author of
Talking With Nature, Jouney Into Nature and Journey Into Oneness among other
works.

To be blunt, Duncan M. Roads has more credibility than anyone else
on this list and more experience with the topic.

What we smug Americans fail to grasp is that even though Australia
has fewer people than the U.S., generally they know our government and
history much better than our own citizenry.

If you don't like what Duncan has to say that is your business. Only
a fool would challenge his existence as a researcher in the conspiracy
field.

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Re: [CTRL] A Sad Day for Democracy/Bushisms

[Samantha L.]

-Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/13/00 3:32:55 AM Central Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Poor baby, when you are a liar, it comes back to bite you in the ass. OUCH!
 So sorry! Bush wins and he should! He is an awesome man. Soon you will see
 that anyone who places their trust in God prevails. Learn from that never-
 dying truth.

  Mr. Awesome:

fromhttp://slate.msn.com/Features/bushisms/bushisms.asp

  "They misunderestimated me."—Bentonville, Ark., Nov. 6, 2000

  "They want the federal government controlling Social Security like it's
some kind of federal program."—St. Charles, Mo., Nov. 2, 2000

  "Families is where our nation finds hope, where wings take
dream."—LaCrosse, Wis., Oct. 18, 2000

  "Drug therapies are replacing a lot of medicines as we used to know it."

  "I think we ought to raise the age at which juveniles can have a gun."

  "Our priorities is our faith."—Greensboro, N.C., Oct. 10, 2000

  "I will have a foreign-handed foreign policy."—Redwood, Calif., Sept. 27,
2000

  "More and more of our imports come from overseas."—Beaverton, Ore., Sep.
25, 2000

  "Well, I think if you say you're going to do something and don't do it,
that's trustworthiness."-- CNN online chat, Aug. 30, 2000

  "We cannot let terrorists and rogue nations hold this nation hostile or
hold our allies hostile.''—  Des Moines, Iowa, Aug. 21, 2000

  "A leadership is someone who brings people together."—Bartlett, Tenn., Aug.
18, 2000

  "It's clearly a budget. It's got a lot of numbers in it."--Reuters, May 5,
2000

  "Laura and I really don't realize how bright our children is sometimes
until we get an objective analysis."—Meet the Press, April 15, 2000

  "Reading is the basics for all learning."—Announcing his "Reading First"
initiative in Reston, Va., March 28, 2000

  "It is not Reaganesque to support a tax plan that is Clinton in
nature.''—Los Angeles, Feb. 23, 2000

  "If you're sick and tired of the politics of cynicism and polls and
principles, come and join this campaign."—Hilton Head, S.C., Feb. 16, 2000

  "I know how hard it is for you to put food on your family."—Greater Nashua,
N.H., Chamber of Commerce, Jan. 27, 2000

  "Rarely is the question asked: Is our children learning?"—Florence, S.C.,
Jan. 11, 2000

  "It is incredibly presumptive for somebody who has not yet earned his
party's nomination to start speculating about vice presidents."—Keene, N.H.,
Oct. 22, 1999, quoted in the New Republic, Nov. 15, 1999

  "Keep good relations with the Grecians."—Quoted in the Economist, June 12,
1999

"Kosovians can move back in."—CNN Inside Politics, April 9, 1999

and last but not least

  "I think anybody who doesn't think I'm smart enough to handle the job is
underestimating."—U.S. News  World Report, April 3, 2000
-

Samantha

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[CTRL] Fw: Ozone hole

[Amelia]

-Caveat Lector-

Subject: Ozone hole


  NASA Science News for December 12, 2000
 
  After reaching record-breaking proportions earlier this year the ozone

 hole over Antarctica has made a surprisingly hasty retreat.
 
  FULL STORY at
 
  http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2000/ast12dec_1.htm?list126231




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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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[CTRL] Fw: Re: [CTRL] Jesus was a Liberal

[Amelia]

-Caveat Lector-

What a fine pair!  Got us conservative Christians all figured out, eh?  You
two don't have a clue.
Steve, you could not TAKE what conservatives think of liberal values.  Don't
push it or somebody just may tell you.  Hint:  "Giving"?  Don't make me
laugh!  They only give when it is somebody else's money they have taken with
excessive taxing to support some "art" like the crucifix submerged in urine,
for example.

Prudy, you don't know what I know about the life of Christ nor what I
consider important.  This attack on people's religion is unwarranted on a
conspiracy list and plenty tacky and tasteless.  It is the same as espousing
a religious viewpoint, YOURS, and I deeply resent your critique of my
religious practices and values.  Typical of kind and loving liberals who
spew forth daily doses of venom toward anybody who does not agree with their
socialist agenda.

If a conservative opens their mouth on this list, we are routinely and
constantly attacked, accused of "shrieking" and yet we must constantly
endure a bombardment of our basic beliefs.  Responses are "extreme" and
unwelcomed.  So if you are conservative and want to stay on this list, you
just have to endure and keep quiet.

Why do liberals always compare moderate liberals to the most extreme of
conservatives?  Just typical liberal disinformation and duplicity. I for one
do not think discussion of Jesus' theoretical political persuasion is on
topic but since you can't seem to stop doing it, I doubt that he would be
pro-pornography, for eliminating school prayer and the ten commandments in
all public places, abortions for school children, every form of perversion
and alternative lifestyle shoved in our faces at every turn and constant
lying with full media coverage.
"School for work" is but a form of slavery and the liberal social
engineering that has destroyed our school system would not be high on his
agenda, either.
Just my humble opinion.  I am sure the two of you big-hearted liberals know
best.
Amelia

- Original Message -
From: "Prudence L. Kuhn" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 6:00 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Jesus was a Liberal


 -Caveat Lector-

 In a message dated 12/12/2000 1:58:39 AM Eastern Standard Time,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  It is difficult to understand how the Christian Conservatives can rant
 against
  the 'evil liberals' when their own Saviour, Jesus Christ was a liberal,
even
 a
  radical of his time, who so incensed his religious contemporaries that
they
  had him crucified. 


 S!   They don't really know much about Jesus Christ.  They really
 don't pay much attention to what he said or did or even how he lived.
They
 do make a lot of fuss about his birth and death, but after that they
really
 lose track of him.  The big "C" to Christian Conservatives is the one on
 Conservatives.  The C on Christ isn't too important to them.  Prudy


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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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[CTRL] Response to Jesse from JJ

[Amelia]

-Caveat Lector-

A response to Jessie the Jackass.

Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 12:20 PM
Subject: [kempgroup] Response to Jesse from JJ

 
   A HREF="http://www.sierratimes.com/edjj121200.htm"A Nation Divided: A
  Response to Jessie Jackson By J.J. Johnson/A
  http://www.sierratimes.com/edjj121200.htm
 
  A Nation Divided: A Response to Jessie Jackson
 
  By J.J. Johnson - Posted: 12.12.00
 
  Thank you, Jessie for finally showing your hand and showing your true
 colors
  (no pun intended). But, before you play the last trump card of the
typical
  socialist (i.e. violence), it's time to lay our cards on the table. You
 claim
  there will be a 'civil rights explosion.' Take to the streets, sir, and
 you
  might find a different kind of resistance against you.
 
  To Jessie and his minions, this is no surprise; only that no democratic
  leader has disavowed your comments yet. In fact, we predicted you would
 take
  this route -as the last desperate act of a tyrant. You'll find a bunch
of
  conservative commentaries to your threats, and you'll get plenty of face
 time
  to preach your sedition. But most would not dare say what needs to be
said
 to
  you and your ilk, in fear of being labeled some evil stereotype. This of
  course, doesn't apply to me. So I'll say it for all of us.
 
  Go ahead - make our day.
 
  To us, Mr. Jackson, it isn't about skin color. It's not even about
George
 W.
  Bush. It's about the Constitution and the Rule of Law. That is what your
 side
  has sought to destroy. And before you throw the first punch, perhaps you
  should take a look at what your side as done to our side over the past
few
  years.
 
  One of the reasons your 'Massa' Gore lost is because he lost every state
 of
  the Old Confederacy (including Florida). Some of these states were
usually
  democratic strong holds - until now. Here's why: Southerners are fed up
 with
  your minions attacking, slandering, and even causing damage to our
 ancestors,
  our history, and the symbols thereof. In your arrogance, you never
thought
  there would be a backlash. You never thought about how many people you
 were
  insulting. You never considered, with your stupid boycotts and protests,
 how
  many black people were affected.
 
  You see, that flag you hate wasn't about slavery. It was about state's
  rights. You call that a code phrase for racism. But you don't criticize
  Gore's lawyers for using a state's rights argument before the courts
these
  days. Remember this about the Ol' South: Tallahassee was the one state
  Capitol the Yankees never occupied. We call this "Just Desserts."
 
  Next, the West. We're watching now as your 'boy' Clinton is on a rampage
 to
  steal as much land as he possibly can from us. He's been doing that for
8
  years. Our goal is to put a stop this. We know your guy has even worse
 plans
  for Westerners. Hence - he lost the West as well.
 
  Those are just two reasons. There's also hate crimes, affirmative
action,
  quotas, abuse of power, gun control and a host of issues that our side
 finds
  insulting. We are tired of having free speech dictated to us by you. We
 are
  tired of being called names just for believing in something. Businessmen
 are
  tired of being extorted by you. Taxpayers are tired of supporting you.
And
  America is tired of listening to you.
 
  Please do not consider yourself a "Civil Rights" leader. If Martin
Luther
  King, Jr. were alive today, I submit that he would have been the first
to
  speak out against your actions. You, Jessie Jackson are leading what
many
  considered a noble Civil Rights Movement into the sewer, and the actions
 of
  your ilk only make race retaliations worse. You seem to have no problem
 using
  people as a weapon against others. You insist on waging class warfare -
 but
  you've never had an 'exit strategy'. Perhaps this is why you simply
can't
  just go away.
 
  And no, I'm not just referring to black people, either. There are just
as
  many narrow- minded whites, and illegal immigrants who'll rally around
 you -
  or march to your orders.
 
  But this time, it'll be different. Your opposition no longer fears your
  threats. In fact, you were probably talking so loud you didn't hear gun
  safeties being released around the country after your words were spoken.
 You,
  Mr. Jackson, and those who support you have become predictable. Your
  propaganda has become intolerable.
 
  Rather than fearing you will "take to the streets", we're banking on it.
 Yes,
  go protest in front of the federal buildings. Close them down for all we
  care. If you want to burn down your own neighborhoods, we'll give you
the
  matches. It you want to burn down the cities, we only ask that you give
us
  time to buy marshmallows. Since your fellow actors will be leaving the
  country soon, we'll need something to entertain ourselves. Watching
those
  Blue areas erupt in a "civil right's explosion' beats watching Oprah and
  Rosie any day.
 
  A word to the wise: 

Re: [CTRL] The reality of Duncan Roads

[Johannes Schmidt III]

-Caveat Lector-

At the risk of publishing something on the list relevant to conspiracy theory:

http://www.smh.com.au/news/0012/14/world/world4.html

http://leviathan.weblogs.com

Execute me, pleads Oklahoma bomber


Timothy McVeigh, who was sentenced to death for the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing, has 
asked a Federal judge to halt any appeals made on his behalf and set an execution date 
soon.

"I believe I am fully competent to make this decision," McVeigh wrote in an affidavit 
released on Tuesday at the United States District Court in Denver. "If the court 
thinks that a psychological evaluation is necessary to make certain I am competent, I 
will submit to such an evaluation.

"I will not justify or explain my decision to any psychologist, but will answer 
questions related to my competency."

McVeigh, who acknowledged he made the request against the advice of his lawyers, asked 
that US District Judge Richard Matsch set an execution date in the next 120 days.

Defence lawyer Nathan Chambers said McVeigh had been considering dropping his appeals 
for some time.

"This is not a snap decision," Mr Chambers said. "The judge is going to want to make a 
determination that Mr McVeigh's decision is a decision he made voluntarily and 
knowingly."

The 32-year-old former soldier was convicted of the April 19, 1995, truck bombing of 
the Alfred P.Murrah Federal building in Oklahoma City that killed 168 people and 
injured 500 others. A day-care centre in the building was destroyed in the attack, 
which was the worst act of terrorism on American soil.

McVeigh has twice appealed his 1997 conviction and death sentence. The US Supreme 
Court in March 1999 let McVeigh's conviction stand. His most recent appeal to the US 
District Court contended he did not receive a fair trial. Judge Matsch rejected the 
appeal in October without a hearing.

Since the last appeal was denied, McVeigh instructed his lawyers not to pursue any 
further appeals, Mr Chambers said. McVeigh's waiver only extends to his right to 
appeal within the court system. He still has the right to petition for executive 
clemency.

McVeigh is being held in a high-security jail in Terre Haute, Indiana, the nation's 
newest Federal death row. Prisoners convicted under the 1994 Federal death penalty 
statute are to be executed by lethal injection.

No hearing date has been set for the judge to consider McVeigh's request.

Los Angeles Times

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Re: [CTRL] The reality of Duncan Roads

[Aleisha Saba]

-Caveat Lector-

The statement was this - how do we know this man is the real Duncan for
there are conflicting addresses, someone hustles sex therapy for $3,700
or so using his namenow that is a lot of money for who is kidding
who here?

I stated how do we know this man is really Duncan Rhodes or Roads or who
and whatever.I really do not care for I do not have time to read
half the mail I get now.

My question was to Tsadowq as I so stated.

Like in Columbus, Ohio years ago, Jewish Mafia hoarding and using neo
nazi literature - have not believed anybody since, especially since the
one guy was in prison cell with James Riddle Hoffa for one year and was
involved in murder when caught with hit man.

Words are just as fatal as a bullet at times but a combinations of words
with bullets, I always wonder.

Saba

Something about your attitude rings same also.

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==
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Fw: Re: [CTRL] ---big group hug---

[Amelia]

-Caveat Lector-

Well, I will give Duncan a bit hug and pass some homemade ebread through the
screen.  However, I don't like everybody constantly urging us to read their
publications and using the list to advertise them.  Lots of that goes on and
in this case was probably justified since it was brought up.  Just don't
want the list to become a posting place for pubs to be hacked to a a captive
audience.
Amelia
- Original Message -
From: "Ynr Chyldz Wyld" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 8:36 AM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] ---big group hug---


 -Caveat Lector-

 From: "Aleisha Saba" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Got one question Tsadowq - How do we know who Duncan is - anybody check
  him out?  If he for real?

 Are you?

 Am I?

 It's hard for ANYONE on the Internet to 'prove' they are who they claim to
be...

 Whether Duncan is or is not who he claims to be doesn't matter...his posts
should be allowed to stand or fall
 on their own...


 June

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 DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
 ==
 CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing
propagandic
 screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please!  These are
 sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis-
 directions and outright frauds-is used politically by different groups
with
 major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and
thought.
 That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
 always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
 credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

 Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
 
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 Om


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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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[CTRL] Fwd: Re: Hey Duncan

[Aleisha Saba]

So Duncan responds and I like the guy.have to accept him as real
thing.now I know why he got involved but not who triggered him off.

So Hi Duncan, and Welcome..Watch out for some of those hugs - for I
had a friend once who took a boa constrictor with her always - was an
MI6 and boy she did not mess around.

Saba aka some call me Colleen




Are you engaged in any petty disputes on an American Conspiracy
Listinquring mind wants to know.is Duncan writing what
amounts to letters to the Editor?

Saba who has enquiring mind..and loves ayone by name of Duncan



I confess to being engaged in a petty dispute.  I'm only human and
sometimes my ego cannot help but react.

I'm working on it though :)

Plus I guess I am always sort of curious to address people's problems
with NEXUS, assuming they are genuine problems and not people with an
agenda.

I guess these bickerers are of the latter category, as they certainly do
not want to engage in debate on any articles etc.

Sigh, and thank you!

best

Duncan


Duncan M. Roads
Editor, NEXUS Magazine
PO Box 30, Mapleton Qld 4560 Australia
Tel: +61 (0)7 5442 9280;   Fax:  +61 (0)7 5442 9381
http://www.nexusmagazine.com  ICQ#62399259

"The nature of the universe is such that ends can never justify the means.
On the contrary, the means always determine the end."
(Aldous Huxley)

Re: [CTRL] Response to Jesse from JJ

[Dale Stonehouse]

-Caveat Lector-

 -Original Message-
 From: Amelia [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
 Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 8:51 AM
 To:   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Subject:  [CTRL] Response to Jesse from JJ

 -Caveat Lector-

 A response to Jessie the Jackass.

Good grief. I bet even Dubya understands that the people who lose a
close fight like this election need to feel there is someone fighting for
their cause. Without that feeling you get riots, revolutions and tax revolts
from the disenfranchised and downtrodden.

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==
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Hey Duncan - That really you?

[nexusmagazine]

-Caveat Lector-

So Duncan you said you made little bucks and spend big bucks?
Get a load of the price he wants for Sex in America.bet Bob Dole
bought this one and I say,  it is the Yankee Doodle buck they are after?
Let Duncan spend his own bucks?   Is that really you Duncan or do we
have imposter on list?
Saba

I am the only Duncan Roads I know, and yes, I did review the machine
described below, and for what it is worth, it is a VERY impressive
device.  I don't set the prices, and I don't like to see such devices
priced out of the range of us ordinary consumers.  But it works! I see
many many gadgets making all sorts of claims, and I was happy to put my
testimony to this one.

And yes, increased oxygenation of the blood and tissues DOES improve mens
sexual performance.  Ask any other guy who ever got into oxygen
therapies.  It is no secret.


Get a load of this one:

NEXUS MAGAZINE
 QRS
REVIEWED BY DUNCAN ROADS
NEXUS MAGAZINE
February- March 1999

The Quantronic Resonance System (QRS) has been extensively tested by
leading European universities on thousands of people for over 20 years.
The results are spectacular! It is currently being used by hundreds of
practicing medical doctors around the world, including dozens in
Australia. ft Basically, you lay on a mat (which has three pairs of
coils inside) while an automatic control unit produces a pulsing
magnetic field which penetrates the body without any harmful
side-effects.


Duncan M. Roads
Editor, NEXUS Magazine
PO Box 30, Mapleton Qld 4560 Australia
Tel: +61 (0)7 5442 9280;   Fax:  +61 (0)7 5442 9381
http://www.nexusmagazine.com  ICQ#62399259

"The nature of the universe is such that ends can never justify the means.
On the contrary, the means always determine the end."
(Aldous Huxley)

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Re: [CTRL] For the record.

[Aleisha Saba]

-Caveat Lector-

Somebody tell Duncan that Oral Roberts said it is okay to prosper.it
is okay for Duncan to make big bucks in Americalook at Clinton.

So in this sex crazed county, i.e. Bob Dole who should know better, tsk,
tsk, it is okay to make big bucks selling someing that is free anyway?

So now Duncan wants to intellectually challenge certain members on
listsounds like good fun.

Saba

And I believe that is the real Duncan..and elephants fly.

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[CTRL] Fwd: {slick-d} Re: Jesse Jackson race riot schedule set (fwd)

[Aleisha Saba]

Well here we go the Saturday Night Civil Fight Riots - where is Jesse
Ventura?

Save your Confederate Money boys - the South Has Arisen.




"On Dec 13, Huck wrote:"

[ text of forwarded message follows ]

I had to send this one along to a few amigos who I thought might appreciate
it for the humor.

Ken
- Original Message -
From: "spiker" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 10:19 PM
Subject: Jesse Jackson race riot schedule set


 Source:
 Detroit Free Press Forums
 http://webx.freep.com/webx/cgi-bin/WebX?[EMAIL PROTECTED]^1@.ee9321d

 Jesse Jackson race riot schedule set
 http://webx.freep.com/webx/cgi-bin/WebX?[EMAIL PROTECTED]^0@.ee9574f/0

 12:00 pm, Pancake breakfast.


 2:00 pm, Prayer meeting with Democratic Leaders.

 2:15 pm, President Clinton throws out the ceremonial first brick, then
 hightails his honky ass out of there.

 2:16 pm, March on Selma, where ever Jackson decides it is today.

 3:30 pm, First fire started at the White Supremacist restaurant Denny's.

 4:00 pm, Eminem is disemboweledf for bringing whitey into the Rap music
 scene, Kid Rock escapes unharmed.

 4:30 pm, Free TV's because everyone knows the best way to show civil
 unrest is to get yourself a free big screen.

 7:00 pm, Network talking heads marvel at the amount of hatred being
 displayed, wonder what could have stoked the flames so high.  Briefly it
 is suggested the media has to take some of the blame, but that notion is
 quickly ignored.

 8:30 pm, Al Gore addresses the nation, saying while he theoretically
 disagrees with all violence in a protest, he once smashed a window and got
 himself a 16 inch color TV in the real Selma during the 1967 riots.  He
 also noted the will of the people clearly shows more rioter's clearly
 voted for Gore, and if he is appointed to President, he is sure a
 bipartisan committee could end the violence.  He then blamed Bush for not
 conceding and forcing people into the street.

 9:30 pm, Private Benjamin Smith, whose name appeared on the Drudge Report
 as one of the military members whose ballot was thrown out, opens fire on
 a crowd of TV carrying rioters with a M-16 rifle.  Tom Daschle immediately
 calls for a ban on automatic weapons in the military.  Gore lawyers are
 immediately on TV telling the public that Private Smith was indeed a Bush
 supporter.

 9:45 am, The Bush camp issues a press release blasting the Clinton
 Administration for the current state of the military, noting Private Smith
 fired 480 rounds in a crowded street and managed to shoot 4 buildings 3
 street lights, 4 parked cars and a mailbox.

 10:00 pm, An NAACP ad runs during the commercial break showing Pearl
 Harbor and linking G W Bush to the Japanese Leaders who bombed Pearl
 Harbor.

[- end of forwarded message ]

--

RKBA!  *   Blessings On Thee, Oh Israel!*  RKBA!
+--+--+-
An _EFFECTIVE_  | Insured  | All matter is vibration. | Let he who hath no
weapon in every | by COLT; | --   Max Plank   | weapon sell his
hand = Freedom  |   DIAL   | In the beginning was the | garment and buy a
on every side!  | 1911-A1. | word.   --   The Bible   | sword.--Jesus Christ
+--+--+-

 Constitutional Government is dead, LONG LIVE THE CONSTITUTION!



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Re: [CTRL] For the record.

[nexusmagazine]

-Caveat Lector-

Saba

And I believe that is the real Duncan..and elephants fly.

Sigh, so how do I prove I am myself?  You can always phone me on the
number below, it is a Queensland, Australia number, which is one hour
behind Sydney time (its a long story).

Look, I derive little pleasure watching myself indulge in being baited.
I like to think I could be above such things, but watching myself and my
mag get trashed by people who are just out there to do such
things‹sometimes it just gets to me.

I apologise if I have lowered myself in anyone's eyes.  And the last
thing I wanted to do was to inadvertently use the list for self-promotion.

I am happy to debate articles we have published, not to promote the
magazine, but to share information.

One subject I would have thought would have gained more attention amongst
conspiracy watchers in the USA is the subject of the book "From Major
Jordan's Diaries".  This book asserts that the USA GAVE the Russians the
A bomb, including materials and plans during the latter part of WWII.
The book is full of documentation, names, dates, times, places, weights,
consignment note numbers etc etc.  The authorisation for the shipments
was from Harry Hopkins.
Is it true then that the Cold War was nothing more than a high-level
hoax, used to justify two empires' military/intelligence buildup, with
its attendant national security?  Certain 'underground' scientists out
there have long claimed, that at the highest level, during the height of
the Cold War, scientists from BOTH sides of the Iron Curtain worked
together.

As many of you are American based lurkers, maybe someone out there can
shed some light?

And at the risk of advertising, there is a link to an extract from the
book from our homepage.

regards

Duncan


Duncan M. Roads
Editor, NEXUS Magazine
PO Box 30, Mapleton Qld 4560 Australia
Tel: +61 (0)7 5442 9280;   Fax:  +61 (0)7 5442 9381
http://www.nexusmagazine.com  ICQ#62399259

"The nature of the universe is such that ends can never justify the means.
On the contrary, the means always determine the end."
(Aldous Huxley)

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Re: [CTRL] To: Governor Bush and Vice President Gore

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

Laughed so hard I broke my chair.  WELL DONE!!!  Gotta send this around.
Still laughing.  Now if we could only get them to do it.
Jayson

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Re: [CTRL] Election 2000: SNAFU or NWO Plan?(part IId)

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 12 Dec 2000 15:10:58 -0500 Aleisha Saba [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
-Caveat Lector-

Freedom from or Freedom of Religion.when those Pilgrims landed on
the Rock - little did they know what would happen when the Gentry
Landed.

Chuckle.  So true.

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Re: [CTRL] Election2000: Hegelian Style

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 12 Dec 2000 15:01:57 -0500 Aleisha Saba [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
-Caveat Lector-
Well Jayson or Jason -

It's Jayson, outlawlady can't spell.

neither candidate and would be King will be known
as Landslide..
Enough to humble even a President to the will of the people.

HUH?  I doubt that.

One thing - Bush promised no US Soldier would EVER wear UN Uniform and
I hold him to that promise - and I hope he got that dump truck driver's
ID, for that was a warning to him.

Promises, are like southern body orifices, all politicians have two.  We
can disagree respectfully on the UN.

So to win by a landslide is a great victory - and to lose or win by a
handful of votes, is not greata victory.oh the agony of
defeat.

Again, HUH?  No one is going to win this election by a landslide.

Saba

Jayson

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Re: [CTRL] Jesus was a Liberal

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 12 Dec 2000 11:07:29 -0800 Mulva [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-

Jesus whom IMHO is far above the class of any
political association and is/was/always has
been/always will be in the business of cleansing of us
sins through His ultimate sacrifice so that we would
have a path to His Father's Kingdom  also said,
"Render therefore unto Caesar the things which be
Caesar's." Luke 20:22-25. Translation: Give the
government what the law says but don't make them your
God (a very unliberal approach I must say and
certainly unlike the agenda of Al Gore's!)

OK.  Wasn't one of the first things he did upon entering the temple was
to throw out the moneychangers?  A little more direct approach than the
"Render..."bit.  I realize that the religious reading of this is that
they were desecrating 'holy' ground, but the Dead Sea Scrolls put that in
a much different light (I am not an expert in this, I came across them
while researching archaeology in that area).

Now before you flame me for this..these are my
personal beliefs. If one does not believe this so be
it--Christ leaves the choice to us (yet another
unliberal approach).  Let me also add--as if
needed--tham I am far from mastering the art of
seperating my own needs from wants and that I too
struggle with the temptation of financial gain and
materialistic issues. However, I am also aware of the
problems they can cause from first hand experience
with my relationship with God.

I would not flame anyone, much less someone who is trying to carry on an
honest dialogue about a touchy subject.  Needless to say, I am not a
believer.  I am just continually amazed that christians can find a couple
of lines that MAY be regarded as being anti gay, but ignore the numerous
direct warnings about the evils inherent in capitalistic ventures.  To me
the bible (old and new testiments) is a good reference book, and has some
good concepts for getting along with each other.  No better and no worse
than any of the other major religions.  However, the role of christianity
in history leaves one to wonder about the valididy of allowing it any
modicum of power.  It is that history that makes me very nervous when I
see politicians invoking that same religion as 'the right way' or calling
this a christian country.
Interesting thread.

Thanks
Mulva
Jayson R. Jones

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Re: [CTRL] Election 2000: SNAFU or NWO Plan?(part IId)

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 12 Dec 2000 12:47:38 -0600 outlawlady [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
-Caveat Lector-
Dear Jason:

My father was learning english phonetically  when I was born so it is
(Jay)(son).  I've had to spell it for people ever since.

When was the last time you read the Constitution? Or the First
Amendment?

When I wrote the message that you replied to.

It says: "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of
religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the
freedom of
speech, or of the press; or right of the people peaceably to assemble,
and to
petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

My reasoning is as follows:  Establishing religion in this country is a
conspiracy by default from the start.  Our money reads "In God We Trust",
our Pledge of Allegiance says (in part) "One nation, under god",   we
take an oath on the bible, get sworn to all public offices including
president on a bible, and every legislature opens it's sessions with a
prayer (almost always a christian prayer.  The one nonchristian prayer
offered at the opening of a legislative session (that I know of) was here
in Oregon a couple years ago.  A Wiccan was schedualed to give the
opening invocation.  The howl from the christians was deafening, and some
of the more narrowminded legislators walked out in protest.).  We are
continually told by our elected officials that this is a christian
country, founded on christian principals, and use the bible as a
reference book when debating.  That is a defacto establishment of the
christian  religion in America.  The government also prohibits the free
exercise of other religions, namely many Native American religions, and
any others that do not conform to christian concepts of propriety,
including 'Black Magic'.

 (all churches in America were Christian at that time).

But not all religions.

 In the second place, these are not MY words. The "In Their Own
Words" series is about the QUOTES of people involved in this
New World Order (New Age) takeover. In this instance,
 I was quoting a United States Supreme Court JUSTICE!

Considering the present SNAFU, quoting a Supreme Court Justice may not be
acceptable proof of anything.   However, it is interesting that you
equate New World Order with New Age beliefs.  Is there something we are
missing here.  Are all NWO advocates also praticianers of New Age
thinking?  What exactly do you think makes up New Age thinking/Beliefs?

Hope this clears things up for you.

Ditto

 Take care  Godspeed!

I always take care.  As for taking Godspeed, I quit doing that in
college.  However I did see Godspell, Superstar, and The life of Jesus
while smoking herbs.  Does that count?

 The OUTLAWLADY

Jayson (irreverant and impudent as always)

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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[CTRL] L.A. Tabloid Reporter Defends the CIA Against Mind ControlAllegations

[lloyd]

-Caveat Lector-

..

From the New Paradigms Project [Not Necessarily Endorsed]
Note:  We store 100's of related "conspiracy posts" at:
http://www.msen.com/~lloyd/oldprojects/recentmail.html

From: "Alex Constantine" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: "Lloyd" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: L.A. Tabloid Reporter Defends the CIA Against Mind ControlAllegations
Date: Sunday, December 10, 2000 2:28 AM

L.A. Tabloid Reporter Defends the CIA
Against Mind Control Allegations

 How a weekly hooker-ad tabloid, distributed freely on Los Angeles
street corners, discredited ‹ in a feature story larded with fabrications
and personal attacks ‹ a local documentary on CIA sex trap operations and
mind control.

By Alex Constantine

 Brice Taylor has claimed in two ³kiss-and-tell² books to be a veteran
CIA sex-slave. On November 2, KCOP, a Los Angeles television station, aired
her allegations on the evening news. It was ³a spy thriller unfolding in the
heart of suburban Los Angeles.² Taylor, explained KCOP¹s Jodi Baskerville,
was ³a typical soccer mom with a successful husband, three kids and a
beautiful home in the San Fernando Valley ‹ that is, until she started
telling of the secret double life as a MIND-CONTROLLED SEX SLAVE for the
CIA...²
 That¹s ³crazy,² chides Tony Ortega, repeatedly, writing in New Times,
an ³alternative² newspaper in Los Angeles that publishes a handful of news
articles and movie reviews amid a sea of ads for prostitutes, massage
parlors, nightclubs and bars. One might fret that a publication depending
for its existence upon the ³industry² would exhibit a frisson more civility
‹ it's an acquisition society, and the hookers who advertise in New Times
are also "sex slaves," in an economic sense, after all ‹ and not depend upon
low blows like "crazy."
 Tony Ortega derides Taylor and others alleging to be victims of  CIA
³brainwashing² and bio-electronic process control, viciously. Some subjects
of past articles by the reporter find him to be a colorful figure in his own
right. Frances Emma Barwood, a Phoenix city councilwoman candidate for
Secretary of State of Arizona two years ago, met Tony Ortega at a UFO
conference in Laughlin, AZ in 1998. Ortega, she recalls, ³lost money
gambling and definitely drinking.² The drunken reporter was ³annoyed that he
had to wait until they introduced me to speak and kept commenting negatively
about the people there.² At the podium, she discussed a triangular aircraft
sighted by legions of Arizona residents. Ortega phoned her to say that a
friend of his at a local astronomer's club and one other member  ³saw planes
that night. He also accused me of not returning his friend's call. The man
did call but never left a number and said that he would have the kid call
me, which he never did. I find it most interesting that one young man says
it was small plane formation way up high and thousands say it was a
humongous flying boomerang-shaped object that flew very slow, was very
obvious, flew over the most densely populated path from north to south of
Arizona, was very low and was totally silent! And Tony Ortega  believes the
kid!²
  At this point, it should be said that no judgment regarding the truth
of Brice Taylor¹s claims is made here, and that is not the purpose of this
rebuttal. They are indeed ³bizarre,² as KCOP acknowledged, and
unsubstantiated ‹ haven¹t proven to be true or false ‹ but the New Times
coverage of the documentary IS demonstrably false, depending entirely upon
vicious personal attacks, selective prying of details from the historical
record, innuendo ‹ tactics normally associated with historical revisionism,
with the effect of obscuring the already well-known involvement of the CIA
in sex trap operations and mind control.
  Tony Ortega¹s ³Sex, Sies and Video Tape² is a study in bias. ³Even
tabloid TV didn¹t buy Brice Taylor¹s claims of being a CIA sex slave,²
Ortega notes, as if the Agency¹s use of prostitutes is news to him, a topic
only fit for tabloid television. Forget that John Marks of the New York
Times exposed CIA mind control experimentation in The Search for the
Manchurian Candidate, based on the government¹s own documents, over 20 years
ago. Forget the books and articles of University of Santa Clara Professor
Allan Scheflin, Walter Bowart, Dr. Peter Breggin, Martin Lee, former BBC
producer Gordon Thomas and scores of highly credible independent
researchers. A recent Atlantic Monthly feature painstakingly detailed a
grossly unethical CIA mind control experiment at Harvard that contributed to
Ted Kozcinski¹s mental deformations ‹ the making of the Unabomber. But
Ortega thinks mind control is for the tabloids.
 ³Channel 13 saw higher ratings in her ravings,² Ortega reports ‹ not
that Ortega  bothered to investigate said ³ravings.² He is too busy
dribbling a transparent goo of denial over them to actually look into
whether or not the sex-slave allegations have any foundation. 

[CTRL] Fwd: comments?

[Kris Millegan]

I got a cyber invitation from professor at my local college
(Political Science Studies ) asking me to comment on the
proven fact that
a faction of the highest intelligence operatives in the USA
has been dealing drugs to our children to earn money off the
books for cov ops and been doing it for 55 years.

These pathetic spies learned how to fund cov ops during
their FLYING TIGER days in CHINA, an off the books op
considered patriotic at the time. They saw Chaing Kai Shek
doing it to fund his nationalist army in crushing Mao.

In Vietnam they saw the French doing it and the American ops
took over with the same, French suppliers, Hmong heroin, and
continued to tranship/sell drugs to our ghettos, sending
the cash back to foreign shores as covert armies/soldiers/
guns. 'Boats go full both ways' mode of doing biz.

Drug revenues also salaried local hirelings, death squads
and other programs that no Congress anywhere short of
Germany in WWII would ever allow. The Vietnam War was filled
with dirty ops like the genocidal PHOENIX Program which the
US voter/congress never endorsed. The men who
carried on such dirty ops funded themselves with drug money.
Several banks were started by the Agency, NUGAN HAND in
Australia and BCCI tied to Clinton and Bush and the Mena
Airport transhipping. In each case, the money of legit
investors/depositors was stolen in deliberate, sudden rigged
collapses.

So not only do we have harm to our ghettos, our teens, but
to people dumb enough to invest in these banks. Add to that
the genocide of  Phoenix Program type activities, whether
mining the harbors of Nicaragua, or reigns of civilian
terror of CONTRA type orgs.

The Secret Gov seems to also have  three reprehensible
branches, the executive, in this case composed of presidents
in the know, who seem to be running a SECRET GOVERNMENT and
trashing the constitution. Often they enlist governors with
rural airports, as in the case of Clinton and Mena. Then
there is the military composed of these SS type genocidal
killers who carry on assasinations with ease and wrap
themselves in the American flag as they do it saying
patriotically 'we're only killing commies'. (Even though
it's proven that the wave of deaths across the third world
involved journalists, teachers, liberal legislators, clergy,
Liberation Theologists, and university students and very few
true Marxists, but what if they were 'of the marxist
persuasion?' Such matters are decided in the ballot box in
democraies, not in the coffin.

Last, the LEGISLATIVE branch which supposedly makes
decisions that the others will implement. In a democracy
those would be people who represent popular opinion. People
who were consulted, but in this case, that role falls to a
few greedy CEO's who need extremely high profits, low labor
costs, no unions and no danger of 'the people organizing for
human rights' In the old days, oligarchs funded the Secret
Gov. Why? They're obviously men who are in the CUI BONUM
role. They do it cuz it profits their transnationals.

In the 70's and 80's, the agency began funding this cov op
faction by arms shipping to tyrants abroad,  drug sales to
our own kids, within our territory. I don't know if all this
merchandising is to relieve the oligarch from his obligatory
generosity or if the money to carry on these cov ops has
just
become so huge that even a Rockflr can not subsidize it.
But I don't care if Rocks are having problems with unions in
the third world, peons wanting more than a dollar a day
salary.
I just want the drug trade to stop. My four children have
been adversely affected by the coke in town, one is still
incarcerated in a mental hospital. All the mothers I know in
my city, L.A. have similar sorrows involving drug use. More
and more
heroin is used by these kids. Add to the grief all the
third world mothers who've lost every member of their family
to death squads, 'disappearings' whose kids participated in
liberal political movements, something like the Vietnam
Activism of the sixties really but their kids are now
rotting in arroyos without graves. It has to stop.

A century from now cooler heads will look back on this as a
time of Nazism rampant, and literally it is whispered that
the entire SS was brought to work in the CIA and that this
literally is Hitler's standard operating procedure. And as
always, murder and terror are wrapped sanctamoniously in a
flag. But a century from now, if any of our children
survive, people will wonder how the American citizenry could
let it happen, KNOW ABOUT IT and let it happen.

We know our own gov is dealing drugs to our kids and using
the money for cov ops. We know a rogue intelligence agency
is behind it. Congresswoman Maxine Walters fought for a
while, then stopped suddenly. When she quits office, someone
should debrief her on why she stopped.

To finish, anyone with a hunch in his head suspects that all
these SAY NO TO DRUG subsidies of foreign drug programs
(i.e. Columbia) are just more ways of creating a 

[CTRL] Fwd: [CIA-DRUGS] The word is getting around

[Kris Millegan]

In Today, Wednesday's Bangkok Post Postbag, this article.

Seems word is getting around.

Matthew



Prohibition has a poor track record

 It is obvious that DEAland's corrupt drug war drives the corrupt drug
policies of many
 countries around the world, including all of Latin and South America,
whose corrupt leaders
 like to pretend that they are sovereign and independent with regard to
their corrupt drug
 policies.

 The institution that makes drugs and dealers dangerous and violent is
the drug war. It is
 prohibition that allows these "dangerous" dealers to exist in the first
place. After all, the
 government has declared war on them, their black market businesses and
their black market
 goods. If the government wants a war, it sure has got one.

 One thing is going to separate the dealers from their huge black market
profits-and it isn't the
 government's war; it is decriminalisation, legalisation, regulation and
an end to the
 government's domestic war on citizens.

 Drug dealers, warlords, kingpins and guerrillas fear only one thing.
They don't fear the DEA,
 CIA, FBI, any other law enforcement or politicians or armies because
they either already own
 them or have them outgunned. The one thing they fear is legalisation
and regulation.

 Truth to tell, governments rarely list victory as an objective in their
expensive and oppressive
 trillion dollar wars. When they do spout their "zero tolerance/total
victory" rhetoric, how
 many of your readers actually believe them? How many actually believe
that this year's
 multi-billion dollar drug war budget will be the one that will achieve
total victory after decades
 of billion dollar budgets have totally failed?Maybe the corrupt
politicians and media are
 required to adhere to the party line of prohibition because law
enforcement, customs, the
 prison and military industrial complex, the drug testing industry, the
"drug treatment"
 industry, the INS, the CIA, the FBI, the DEA, the politicians
themselves, et al, can't live
 without the budget justification, not to mention the invisible profits,
bribery, corruption and
 forfeiture benefits that prohibition affords them.

 The drug war also promotes, justifies and perpetuates racist
enforcement policies and is
 diminishing many freedoms and liberties that are supposed to be
inalienable according to the
 US constitution and bill of rights.

 Myron Von Hollingsworth

 Texas


-- eGroups Sponsor -~-~
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It's Easy. It's Fun. Best of All, it's Free!
/FONTA
HREF="http://click.egroups.com/1/9698/0/_/475667/_/976721287/"BClick
Here!/B/A
-_-

[CTRL] Rocky Roads

[Kris Millegan]

-Caveat Lector-

Howdy,
Yes, there is a Duncan Roads and we are lucky to have him partcipate in this
public forum. For has anyone who has been either a long-time member or a
drop-in, who left rather than deal with the traffic and bs, knows that this
list is not "hassle-free."
Now I could be more involved and come down on every infraction of civility,
courteous discussion and boorish, peevish behaviors, but that would take more
time than I have and I am a firm believer in that a person's words are
telling.
The subject that we are dealing with covers many disciplines and is subject
to many emotive and directed false positions that are played by forces, for
control and ritual.

CTRL is very fortunate that any of us "see" the ore to mined and the
"comradarie" created and discussion and understandings created.

Thanks to all.

Also, CTRL can and has been used to annouce new books, magazine articles or
whatever about our subject.

Speaking of that, Paranoia, another magazine, whose editor CTRL is lucky to
have as a member,
A Hidell, new mag is out.

GO FIND. It is excellant more later. I must run.


Thanks to all.

 Best of the season.


Om
K

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] ---big group hug---

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Wed, 13 Dec 2000 09:36:13 -0500 Ynr Chyldz Wyld [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:
-Caveat Lector-

It's hard for ANYONE on the Internet to 'prove' they are who they
claim to be...
Whether Duncan is or is not who he claims to be doesn't matter...his
posts should be allowed to stand or fall on their own...
June

That is true of everyone.  We all have a DELETE key as well as a REPLY
icon.  One of the things that attracted me to this list is the free flow
of information, thoughts, ideas and comments on a wide variety of
subjects from a wide variety of viewpoints.   However, I too, do not like
flagrant commercialism on a list like this.   Ideas YES, Advertising NO.
Jayson

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] How Dare Government License Drivers?

[Jayson R. Jones]

-Caveat Lector-

On Tue, 12 Dec 2000 14:36:25 -0600 K [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
-Caveat Lector-
http://www.infomagic.net/liberty/vs001208.htm
Vin Suprynowicz
December 8, 2000
And now ... armed guards at the DMV

Constitutional authority for licensing cars and drivers is pretty
 tenuous, largely based on early legal sleight-of-hand designed to
purposely confuse the excisable professional of "driving" -- hauling
passengers or freight for profit on the public roads -- with simple
civilian travel.

Just one more example of the sleight-of-hand that has negated almost
everything in the Constitution.  From the straight forward document
setting out the basic rights of people in a free society, to the mountain
of legal doubletalk we have to day took slight-of hand to a whole new
level.  Today we have 'magicians' pulling all sorts of rabbits out of
hats, making everything dissappear, and creating the illusion of peace
and prosperity while they pick our pockets (and the environment) clean of
anything of value.
Jayson

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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[CTRL] Fw: How Washington Bought Yugoslav Presidency (TiM GW Bulletin 2000/12-4, Dec. 12, 2000)

[Mrs. Jela Jovanovic]

-Caveat Lector-


 - Original Message -
 From: TiM Publisher [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: TiM GW Bulletins [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tuesday, December 12, 2000 12:44 AM
 Subject: How Washington Bought Yugoslav Presidency (TiM GW Bulletin
 2000/12-4, Dec. 12, 2000)


 
  FROM PHOENIX, ARIZONA
 
  Thought you'd be interested in our latest Truth in Media Global Watch
  Bulletin which is now available at our Web site, just click on the
 animated
  (green) THE NEWS button to go to our latest report.
 
  Of course, you can also click on the TiM Bulletins Index button in the
 left
  frame - to go to selections of our Bulletins archived by geographic
 regions
  and subjects, and in chronological order.  Or click on any other button
in
  the left frame for other topics of interest.
 
  And now, here are the headlines of the latest TiM Bulletin.  Just keep
in
  mind that our stories are CONSTANTLY updated, and that the e-mail text
  enclosed below is often merely the first edition of a story.  So we
  recommend that you keep checking the TiM Web site daily, so that you
would
  not miss out on some important news or commentary updates.
 
  ---
  Truth in Media's GLOBAL WATCH Bulletin 2000/12-4 12-Dec-2000
  ---
  Topic: BALKANS AFFAIRS
  -
 
  HEADLINES
 
  Washington 1. How Washington Bought Yugoslav Presidency
 
  http://www.truthinmedia.org/Bulletins2000/tim2000-12-4.html
 
 
  1. How Washington Bought Yugoslav Presidency
 
  Kostunica, Once a Serb "Nationalist," Now a $41 Million-Washington
Puppet
 
  WASHINGTON, Dec. 11 - Good speechwriters follow the classical speaking
 rule
  - tell them what you're going to tell them; tell them; and then tell
them
  what you've told them.
 
  Well, we told you in July the September 24 Yugoslav elections would be a
  Serb "demo farce," with Vojislav Kostunica starring as a naïve Don
 Quixote,
  while, in fact, being a Trojan Horse bought and paid for by Washington.
 We
  told you as the Serb "Ostrich Revolution" was unfolding, complete with
  destruction of electoral ballots, that it was a foreign-orchestrated
coup
  d'etat.  And we repeated that when Kostunica started to reverse himself
  following his electoral "victory."
 
  And now, with less than two weeks to go before the Dec. 23 Serbian
  elections, just as we were about to sum up what we've been telling you
all
  along about DOS and Kostunica, lo and behold the Washington Post did it
 for
  us.  Yes, that "liberal" establishment mouthpiece; the nation's
 penultimate
  authority on the imbroglio at the DC bordello, told the truth about how
  Washington bought the Yugoslav presidency for $41 million.
 
  The innocuous sounding headline of the Post's Dec. 11 article, "U.S.
 Advice
  Guided Milosevic Opposition," was a guise for its devastating
  content.  Devastating for Kostunica, an erstwhile Serb "nationalist,"
now
 a
  mere Washington puppet.  Devastating for DOS - the Washington-funded and
  organized Democratic Opposition of Serbia, now the new Yugoslav
  regime.  Devastating for "Otpor" (Resistance), an ostensible "student"
  movement, also financed and run by the U.S. government.
 
  In short, the Post confirmed all our suspicions, and put a very explicit
  price on the Yugoslav presidency and Kostunica's betrayal of his
erstwhile
  ideals:
 
  "The U.S. democracy-building effort in Serbia was a curious mixture of
  secrecy and openness. In principle, it was an overt operation, funded by
  congressional appropriations of around $10 million for fiscal 1999 and
$31
  million for 2000."
 
  The Post also paints a picture of Kostunica, DOS and Otpor as nothing
more
  than U.S. marionettes.  Even the very lines they mouthed off during the
  election campaign were scripted by their Washington puppeteers:
 
  "According to Stevanovic, the (DOS) coalition marketing expert, EVERY
WORD
  of the opposition's one-minute and five-minute core political messages
 used
  by opposition spokesmen across the country was discussed with U.S.
  CONSULTANTS and tested by opinion poll. Coalition candidates running for
  the Yugoslav parliament and tens of thousands of local government
 positions
  received extensive training on how to stay "on message," answer
  journalists' questions and rebut the arguments of Milosevic supporters."
  (emphasis added).
 
  Here are some other excerpts from the Post report:
 
  "Held in a luxury hotel in Budapest, the Hungarian capital, in October
  1999, the closed-door briefing by (Doug) Schoen, a Democrat (pollster),
  turned out to be a seminal event, pointing the way to the electoral
  revolution that brought down Milosevic a year later. It also marked the
  start of an extraordinary U.S. effort to unseat a foreign head of state,
  not through covert action of the kind the CIA once employed in such
places
  

[CTRL] What Is Going On in Yugoslavia? What Is Going On in The World?

[Mrs. Jela Jovanovic]

 
Author: Ivan 
Angelov, Ph.D. 
Associate 
Professor of Social  Civilization Aspects of International 
Relations
Sofia, 
Bulgaria

What Is Going 
On in Yugoslavia?
What Is Going 
On in The World?

People from far away may rightfully expect that we 
in Bulgaria would know more on the situation in Yugoslavia at least in view of 
the geographical proximity between the two countries. Sorry to disappoint 
them.
 
It is true that in the months, weeks and days before October 1 the air 
was thick with talk on Yugoslavia. The numerous, high-volume as a rule, 
statements, messages and commentaries on this issue though were hardly telling 
anything different from the already well-known maxim that Milosevic is bad and 
has to go.
The v o l u m e 
has obviously decreased after October 6 when the Evil of Humanity has 
disappeared from the political arena. Very illogically the interest of the 
mainstream media towards the events in this country has disappeared together 
with him. Hardly anything has been said about the way in which this has taken 
place or about the events that accompanied Milosevics decision to quit. 
Pictures of fires in downtown Belgrade appeared on the front pages of the 
newspapers but people had to guess who and for what purpose have set up those 
fires. E-mails and Internet communications have also become scarce or 
practically disappeared.
Under these 
circumstances the question of Whats going on and What has really taken place 
in Yugoslavia these days obviously remains without a satisfactory answer at 
least to people who are genuinely interested in the course of events both in 
this country and in the world as a whole.
The usual 
answers to such a question may be, of course, that what has taken place there 
are early elections.
Our first concern is dealing with the extent to which 
the word election may be rightfully attributed to what has been going on 
within and around this country in the period before, during and after October 1, 
2000. We feel it essential that both Yugoslavian citizens and their immediate 
neighbors like us, as well as all the people around the world give at least to 
themselves, to begin with, an adequate answer to that question. It is necessary 
not so much for the purpose for accusing this or that personality, institution, 
country, government or political ideology and orientation, but as one of the 
possible ways of clarifying what kind of world we are really living in and what 
we can expect out of it in near or more remote future.
One of the 
things which is really annoying in this situation is that neither Yugoslavia 
authorities nor the opposition  neither leaders nor ordinary citizens  neither 
experts in law nor humanitarians  actually no one either in Yugoslavia, its 
immediate neighbors or the world over has even for a single moment questioned or 
speculated over the idea to what extent elections may be considered 
normal, fair or if they should take place at all in a situation 
when a country or a part of its territory is occupied by foreign 
troops.
Perhaps since 
such practices have been commonplace in the world for decades they have already 
become a norm of Law? If this is so, then certain corrections or amendments 
should be made in all its Charters, documents and provisions, so that nowadays 
and future generations the world over will know that there is nothing 
wrong in the presence of foreign troops on a certain countrys territory and 
that it is not only compatible but also desirable for the free-will expression 
of its citizens.
It is 
interesting how the people in the divided Germany or the anti-Communist 
protestors in countries like Poland, Hungary or Czechoslovakia would have 
accepted this some ten years ago. Or, who would be able to convey this message 
to those Bulgarians who still question the legitimacy of the 1946 
Anti-Monarchy Referendum carried out in the presence or ex-Soviet 
troops?
Nevertheless, 
recently we see that elections in the presence of foreign troops still continue 
to be carried out or are encouraged in a growing number of countries or regions 
in the world. Bosnia and Herzegovina are just another fresh example of it. 
Elections are encouraged also in Kosovo, though it is not even a formally 
independent country but a part of another established 
state.
Developments of 
this kind both in former decades and nowadays seem to provide enough basis to 
suggest that perhaps in the realities of the world today elections as a process 
of free will legitimate expression is getting more and more devoid of its 
original contents and meaning. It is rather assuming the functions of 
covert of intentions, activities and interests that may have little or 
even nothing to do with all this. Perhaps nowadays elections are becoming 
more of a ritual to pronounce blessing (or maybe blasphemy?) over 
a certain state of things (established by o t h e r means) than a functionary way of 
expressing the will of the respective electoral 

Re: [CTRL] ---big group hug---

[Tenorlove]

-Caveat Lector-

--- Aleisha Saba [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Next thing you know we will
 have
 Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Larry Flynt, etc, etc., posting to CTRL
 and wouldn't that be fun - even Al Gore getting in on the act?

Now THIS is my idea of a party!!!

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Thousands of Stores. Millions of Products.
http://shopping.yahoo.com/

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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] Forgotten Refugees

[Alamaine]

-Caveat Lector-

From
http://www.iwpr.net/index.pl5?archive/bcr/bcr_20001206_3_eng.txt

}}Begin


Kosovo's Fogotten Refugees
Macedonia struggles to cope with thousands of Kosovo Roma refugees driven from their
homes by Albanian extremists
By Rose George in Skopje  (BCR No. 201, 6-Dec-00)
Through the barbed wire fence, a commotion was going on in Camp Shuto Orizari.
The camp, funded by the United Nations High Commission for Refugees, UNHCR, and run
by the Macedonian Red Cross, is home to 1,500 Roma - or Gypsy - refugees from nearby
Kosovo, driven from their homes by ethnic Albanians over the last 10 months.
The commotion was a protest strike, sparked by the refugees' bitterness at what they
see as the international community' disinterest in their plight.
On November 15, four Ashkalis - Albanian-speaking, highly integrated Roma - were
shot dead when they returned to their village in Kosovo to rebuild their burned
houses.
In another incident, a 13 year-old boy was burned alive when he went back to
Orahovac in southern Kosovo to check out his house.
Since the repatriation of Kosovo Albanian refugees, the vast majority of the
province's 150,000 Roma have been chased or burned out of their homes. Only 10,000
to 30,000  remain, living in ethnic enclaves under constant fear of attack. In
Pristina, one American journalist found more than 30 families who hadn't ventured
outside their homes in seven months.
Macedonia, the poorest of the former Yugoslav republics, has reluctantly agreed to
shelter the uprooted Roma.
Shutka, on the outskirts of the Macedonian capital Skopje, is the world's only self-
governing Roma municipality. Families in the area are looking after some 4,000
Kosovo Roma refugees. About 1,500 others live in the Shuto Orizari camp.
Its hardly an ideal situation. Shutka, a suburb which grew out of the city's rubbish
tip, is racked by 80 per cent unemployment. It has inadequate amenities for its own
residents, nevermind refugees. The camp is only 100 meters from the tip, which
covers several nearby hillsides.
Families who have offered shelter to refugees are supposed to receive a 200 German
mark payment each month from the European Union. The last payment was made in
December 1999.
UNHCR sources say Shutka's Roma mayor offered to accommodate the camp in the hope of
attracting international organisations to his municipality.
But since NATO troops  took control of  Kosovo  last year, the number of
international organisations in Skopje has dropped dramatically from 600 to 6.
"They've all gone to Pristina or Belgrade," said Susanna Tuneva-Paunovska of the
Macedonian Red Cross. "We're doing the best we can on our budget, but it's not
enough. Still, compared to some camps in Africa, Shutka is the Holiday Inn."
Holiday Inn or not, Shutka's refugees are nervous. The camp is too close to the
Kosovo border for comfort, and the recent violence in southern Serbia between
Albanian separatists and Serbian police, which left four Serbian officers dead, has
done nothing to calm nerves.
The village of Dosevac, where the four Ashkali men were killed, is in the heart of
former Kosovo Liberation Army, KLA, territory. Though the KLA has splintered since
the NATO-led Kosovo Force, K-For, arrived in the province, its leader Hashim Thaci
has managed to transform himself into a high-profile politician, and the KLA's
legacy still makes any thought of returning home impossible for the Roma.
Albanians loudly accuse the Roma of having collaborated with Serbian forces in
atrocities.  Some Serb-speaking Roma did join the Yugoslav army, and some were
undoubtedly involved in crimes against the Albanian community, but this only partly
explains the current level of hostility.
Before the war, most of Kosovo's Roma co-existed peacefully with Albanians. They
lived in mixed residential areas and sent their children to Albanian schools. In
Camp Shuto Orizari, 80 per cent of the refugees don't speak Romany. "Until I came
here," said one man, "I didn't even know I was Roma."
In one of the camp barracks, a group of men sit down in front of a television and
video cassette player. The video shows burning houses and leaky boats crammed with
refugees trying to cross to Italy. "My sister and four chilren drowned in one of
those boats," said one man.
Another moves salt and pepper pots around on the floor to illustrate geopoliticial
strategy. "K-For came for the territory," he said, "not for the people of Kosovo.
The Albanians want to create a greater Albania, without us. But we were born in
Kosovo. We're not interested in politics, we just want to go home."
The international community's lack of interest in the refugees' plight has
intensified their bitterness. "Last year," said Hisen Gashnrani, "United Nations
High Commissioner Sadako Ogata came here and said returning us to Kosovo was problem
number one. Since then? Nothing!"
Criticism of K-For is particularly vitriolic. "Albanians are exploiting K-For," said
one man. "There was one incident when 

[CTRL] Concluding Pearl Harbour

[Alamaine]

-Caveat Lector-

@ http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north26.html

}}Begin (conclusion to article)

Conclusion
In 1958, the only book critical of Franklin Roosevelt’s domestic
  policies and his foreign policies was Flynn’s book. In 1958, it
  was out of print. In the Year of Our Lord, 2000, it remains the
  only book critical of Roosevelt’s domestic and foreign policies.
We haven’t come a long way, baby.
Things are beginning to change for the better. The Web has begun
  to chip away at every academic guild’s monopoly. What is taught
  in college classrooms no longer has the same authority that it
possessed
  in 1960. But until the subsidizing of higher education by the state
  ends, and until the state-licensed accreditation oligopoly ends
  or is overcome by new, "price-competitive
  technologies," it will remain an uphill battle for Pearl
  Harbor revisionists in academia.
December 12, 2000

Gary North is the author of a ten-volume series, An Economic
  Commentary on the Bible. The latest volume is Sacrifice and
  Dominion: An Economic Commentary on Acts. The series can be downloaded

  free of charge at www.freebooks.com.


End{{
AER
Forwarded as information only; no endorsement to be presumed
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
In accordance with Title 17 U.S.C. section 107, this material
is distributed without charge or profit to those who have
expressed a prior interest in receiving this type of information
for non-profit research and educational purposes only.
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
Integrity has no need of rules. -Albert Camus (1913-1960)
+ + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + + +
The only real voyage of discovery consists not in seeking
new landscapes but in having new eyes. -Marcel Proust

The libertarian therefore considers one of his prime educational
tasks is to spread the demystification and desanctification of the
State among its hapless subjects.  His task is to demonstrate
repeatedly and in depth that not only the emperor but even the
"democratic" State has no clothes; that all governments subsist
by exploitive rule over the public; and that such rule is the reverse
of objective necessity.  He strives to show that the existence of
taxation and the State necessarily sets up a class division between
the exploiting rulers and the exploited ruled.  He seeks to show that
the task of the court intellectuals who have always supported the State
has ever been to weave mystification in order to induce the public to
accept State rule and that these intellectuals obtain, in return, a
share in the power and pelf extracted by the rulers from their deluded
subjects.
[[For a New Liberty:  The Libertarian Manifesto, Murray N. Rothbard,
Fox  Wilkes, 1973, 1978, p. 25]]

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[CTRL] King Tut DNA test postponed

[DIG Anonymous]

-Caveat Lector-

http://www.infobeat.com/cgi-bin/WebObjects/IBFrontEnd.woa/wa/fullStory?article=405316608


InfoBeat

King Tut DNA test postponed

By SALAH NASRAWI
Associated Press Writer

   CAIRO, Egypt (AP) - Egypt has indefinitely postponed DNA tests
designed to throw light on questions that have intrigued
archaeologists for years: Who was Tutankhamun's father, and was he
of royal blood?
   The head of Egypt's Supreme Council of Antiquities, Gaballah Ali
Gaballah, said Tuesday that plans for DNA tests on the mummies of
Tutankhamun and his presumed grandfather, Amenhotep III, had been
canceled.
   ``There will be no test now and we have to see if there will be
one later,'' Gaballah told The Associated Press. He declined to
give a reason.
   Sabri Abdel-Aziz, the council's chief archaeologist in southern
Egypt, where the tests were to be conducted, said the Japanese
experts assigned to the work had not been granted the required
security clearance. He did not say why.
   The announcement of the planned tests had sparked a controversy
among Egyptian archaeologists. Some said they were an unnecessary
risk that might harm the mummies. Others said the results might be
used to rewrite Egyptian history.
   ``I have refused in the past to allow foreign teams to carry out
such tests on the bones of the Pyramids builders because there are
some people who try to tamper with Egyptian history,'' the chief
archaeologist of the Giza pyramids, Zahi Hawas, told the Akhbar
Al-Yom weekly.
   DNA testing of mummies has the potential to answer a number of
questions about ancient Egypt _ proving information on matters such
as family relations, marriage patterns and mixing of ethnic groups.
But archaeologists caution that DNA testing has not proved very
successful and warn against over-reliance on it.
   Gaballah said last month that the tests, aimed at comparing
Tutankhamun's DNA with that of Amenhotep III, were his department's
last resort to end a long-lasting mystery.
   Tutankhamun ruled Egypt 3,300 years ago from about the age of 8
to his death at 17. He succeeded Amenhotep IV, better-known as
Akhenaten, and official policy at the time said Tutankhamun was
related by blood to his predecessor.
   Many Egyptologists question whether Akhenaten really did father
Tutankhamun, although they widely agree the boy-king had some sort
of royal lineage.
   The tests were to have been conducted by a team from Japan's
Waseda University and Cairo's Ein Shams University.
   The first test was to be carried out at Tutankhamun's tomb in
the Valley of Kings near the southern town of Luxor, and would have
meant closing the tomb for a few hours.
   The tomb was discovered virtually intact by Briton Howard Carter
in 1922. Its treasures provided invaluable insight into Egyptian
ancient history.
   The second test would have been on the mummy of Amenhotep III,
which is exhibited at the Egyptian museum in Cairo. Amenhotep III
is believed to have been Akhenaten's father.
   A general named Horemheb largely ran the country during Tut's
reign. He and other generals were known to claim royal blood.

 
©2000 Indimi, Inc., All rights reserved. InfoBeatTM is a trademark of
Indimi, Inc.  InfoBeat services are for personal use only. Commercial use
or redistribution in any form, printed or electronic, is prohibited.

=

**COPYRIGHT NOTICE** In accordance with Title 17 U. S. C. Section 107,  any
copyrighted work in this message is distributed under fair use without
profit or payment to those who have expressed a prior interest in receiving
the included information for nonprofit research and educational purposes only.
[Ref. http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/17/107.shtml ]

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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Getting Inside the Cult

[lloyd]

-Caveat Lector-

..

From the New Paradigms Project [Not Necessarily Endorsed]
Note:  We store 100's of related "conspiracy posts" at:
http://www.msen.com/~lloyd/oldprojects/recentmail.html

From: "M.A. Johnson" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Recipient list suppressed
Subject: Getting Inside the Cult
Date: Monday, December 11, 2000 7:59 AM

~~for educational purposes only~~
[Title 17 U.S.C. section 107]


Getting Inside the Cult
by Ryan McMaken

It finally seems that the American judicial system
may have finally gotten too smart for its own good.
Prior to the November ruling by the Florida Supreme
Court, some legal experts were predicting that the
Florida high court would be unwilling to overturn
the Secretary of State's certification of the Bush
win. Presumably, they argued, the Florida Supreme
court would be unwilling to sacrifice its prestige
by engaging in such a blatantly partisan action. The
predictions were wrong, and the Florida Supremes
did their best to hand Gore the election. When the
case was appealed to the U.S. Supreme court, there
were again predictions that the U.S. Supremes would
not want to jump into the fray of the partisan fight.
Well, the justices couldn't help themselves and they
too jumped into the business. After the U.S. Supremes
reversed the Florida decision, the Florida high
court made another attempt to hand Gore the election,
and the U.S. Supreme court slapped them down again.
In both of the latter two decisions, both the U.S.
Supreme court and the Florida Supreme Court have
given split decisions, and the U.S. justices have
even taken to publicly criticizing each other before
a decision on the case is even made. All the judicial
mythology of unanimity and political independence of
the courts is beginning to look pretty foolish.

Ever since the ink was barely dry on the Constitution,
the American courts have been trying to establish
and solidify their independence while attempting to
convince all that they are a breed apart from ordinary
people who let themselves be swayed by vulgar politics.
Evidently, they have been pretty successful at their
task. The vast majority of Americans hold the judicial
system in high esteem while elected legislative bodies
are held to be some of the most untrustworthy groups
in America. Few dare criticize the decisions of the
U.S. Supreme Court, and Supreme Court decisions are
often invoked as the final word on various political
matters. This is due largely to Chief Justice John
Marshall's assertion in 1803 that the Supreme Court
has the right of judicial review in federal law. No
such thing was written into the Constitution, but
Marshall managed to turn it into a massive power grab
for the judicial system. Marshall wanted to turn the
court into a body of sages aloof from common politics.
Detached from local interests and party matters, the
judiciary was supposed to act in the best interest of
preserving the law and the Constitution. Free from
the influence of politics, the court would be able to
hand down decisions based strictly on the merits and
the intent of the law. Or so they claim.

Although it has been able to promote its own power
fairly well, the Supreme Court has not always been
successful in enforcing its fiats. When Marshall
declared that President Andrew Jackson's Indian policy
was unconstitutional, Jackson ignored the decision and
said, "Mr. Marshall has made his decision, now let him
enforce it." When Chief Justice Roger Taney criticized
Lincoln's habit of suspending habeas corpus, Lincoln
just ignored him. The courts know that their power rests
exclusively on their prestige. They do not represent
local or state interests and they do not command any
troops or any army of bureaucrats. They are powerless
in executing any of their laws. To counter this, they
work very hard on puffing up their reputations as
unanimous, impartial, and independent bastions as the
rule of law in the hope that someone will actually
listen to them.

As a result, a cult of judicial supremacy has grown up
within the legal profession. The judges and lawyers
within the cult do their best to always make each other
look good and to generally avoid controversy. They have
odd habits like no other branch of government. They wear
strange puffy black robes, and everyone has to stand up
every time they enter the room. No one feels the need
to stand up when the congressman from California's 27th
district enters the room, yet when Podunk County judge
Joe Schmoe enters the courtroom, everyone's suddenly
on their feet. Unlike elected politicians who openly
criticize each other and engage in open debate, the
modern Supreme Court and the state equivalents are huddled
in a back room poring over some legal texts trying to
figure out how they can best subvert the law without
losing any of their precious prestige and legitimacy.
Like any good cult, they speak sparingly with outsiders
of their own powers and of their role in 

[CTRL] Seattle Voices ....

[Martin F. Abernathy]

-Caveat Lector-

It's been happening all over the country, for many years. Here's
yet another example :

--
INSANITY RULING COMES TOO LATE FOR TWO VICTIMS
BURIEN MAN MAY FACE LIFE IN HOSPITAL, NOT PRISON

Seattle Times , Wednesday June 30, 1993
by RICHARD SEVEN , Page number  B1

Thomas L. Martin was repeatedly diagnosed at hospitals and mental-health
clinics as delusional and paranoid. He heard phantom voices and believed
he was being persecuted, followed, poisoned.
He was turned away from a hospital emergency room because he refused to
sign admission papers. Although he sought help, he often refused
medication, believing it was lethal. Outpatient treatment never lasted.
Martin once tried to commit suicide and threatened his former wife with
a knife. An ex-girlfriend had a restraining order filed against him.

He had a concealed-weapons permit and had kept two handguns and a rifle
inside his Burien home. And, during the summer of 1992, he warned a
neighbor he eventually would kill, that "something's going to happen."
Yet he was never held in any facility longer than the standard 72 hours.
Mental-health evaluators, although concerned about his habit of
"self-medicating with alcohol," did not or could not find him dangerous
enough to legally commit.

Finally, last Dec. 13, the voices taunting Martin, 58, persuaded him, he
told a state psychiatrist, to kill the next-door neighbors he barely
knew, Richard C. Jensen and Judy Farmer.  He believed he was being
systematically poisoned, that someone had placed a radio transmitter
inside his brain and was tracking him with Jensen's television antenna.

Moments after killing Jensen and Farmer and reporting it to 911, Martin
called his former wife and said, "You . . . have hired the last people
to spy on me and bring me down."  King County Superior Court Judge
Arthur Piehler yesterday found Martin not guilty of murder charges by
reason of insanity and committed him to Western State Hospital for what
could be the rest of his life. Psychologists said Martin was insane at
the time he walked next door late on a Sunday morning, gunning down
Jensen, 31, and Farmer, 21, inside their rented home in the 14000 block
of Fourth Avenue South in Burien. One of the psychologists said Martin
was likely psychotic well before he decided to kill the couple.

-

When will it end ? How many more must die ?
How can we stop these atrocities? Any ideas ?



MARtin F. ABErnathy  ([EMAIL PROTECTED])

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

[CTRL] MC: Political MindControl - Proof Bush did not win election

[DIG alfred webre]

-Caveat Lector-

 Political MindControl: Proof Bush did not win election

 Early Calls

 1) Major pre-election polls had Gore leading in Florida the night of
 Nov. 6.
 (http://www.zogby.com/features/featuredtables.dbm?ID=30#Anchor-
 Florid- 922) (http://dailynews.yahoo.
 com/h/nm/20001106/ts/election_leadall_dc_11.html)

 2) On Election Day, November 7, Voter News Service correctly
 predicted
 through exit polls that matched with early results that Gore won the
 state of Florida by a safe margin of 5%. At 7:53PM VNS issued the
 bulletin: FLORIDA PRESIDENT RACE -- GORE WINS. The networks
 immediately called the state for Gore.
 (http://www.herald.com/content/tue/business/florida/digdocs/045599
 .htm )


 3) A mortified Jeb Bush, Governor of Florida, shortly thereafter left
 his family in Austin to make some calls. Then George W., after
 consulting with his advisors including his brother Jeb, called
 reporters to his hotel suite and told them the networks had made a
 mistake in calling Florida. "I'm upbeat," he said. At 10:13PM the
 networks recalled the state and put it back into the "too close to
 call" column. (http://www.herald.com/content/tue/b
 usiness/florida/digdocs/045599.htm)

 4) At 2:18 AM the networks began declaring George W. Bush the
 president. They had done so after Fox News called Florida. Who
 made
 the decision to incorrectly call Florida for Bush over at Fox, thereby
 creating the lasting myth that Bush won? John Ellis, who also happens
 to be George W. Bush's first cousin.
 (http://www.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/11/15/ellis/index.html)

 Irregularities -- Palm Beach County

 5) An illegal ballot design (the infamous "butterfly ballot") confused
 many residents of Palm Beach County into undervoting, overvoting, or
 accidentally voting for Pat Buchanan. Regarding the spin about how
 it's because they are stupid old people: voters started complaining
 about this at 7:05 AM on Election Day. DNC HQ calls were jammed due to
 the high volume of calls. Rep. Robert Wexler, the local Congressional
 Representative, received a deluge of calls, and on Election Day, even
 VP Candidate Joseph Lieberman called the local office to see what was
 going on down there. The elections supervisor issued a warning midway
 through the day warning people of the confusion.
 (http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/politics/AP-Florida-Ballot-
 Confusion. html)
 (http://www.salon.com/politics/feature/2000/11/09/lapore/index.html)
 (http://www.sun-sentinel.com/n
 ews/daily/detail/0,1136,360123102,00.html)

 6) The odds that all those Palm Beach County residents voted for
 Buchanan intentionally rather than Gore is approximately a trillion to
 one. Statistical models bear this out when you compare them to the
 Buchanan vote in other counties. Looking at any graph you see a huge,
 disproportionate spike in Buchanan votes. Pat Buchanan himself agrees
 that the majority of these votes were not cast for him.
 (http://www.bestbookmarks.com/election) (http://madison.hss.cmu.edu/)

 7) Many Palm Beach county voters who mis-voted but caught it
 immediately and asked for another ballot were told they could not have
 another ballot by poll workers, in violation of county rules. (NPR,
 11/10/00)

 8) Socialist Party candidate David McReynolds received
 abnormally high
 vote totals in Palm Beach County. His name appears directly below
 Buchanan's name on the butterfly ballot, in a position that could
 potentially draw erroneous votes from Democratic votes. McReynolds
 received 302 votes in PBC. Statewide, in the other 66 counties, he
 received 316 votes combined. McReynolds got virtually as many votes in
 Palm Beach County as he did in the entire rest of the state of
 Florida...nearly 50% of the statewide total!
 (http://www.bestbookmarks.com/election)

 9) After the handcounts were completed, after using a stricter
 standard than neighboring Broward County, the deadline was
 missed by
 an hour or two. Could the count have been delayed because of stall
 tactics used by overzealous GOP observers?
 (http://www.globe.com/dailyglobe2/324/nation/Democrats_accuse_
 GOP_of_s ta lling_for_time+.shtml)

 Irregularities -- Miami-Dade County

 10) Miami-Dade has a recent history of election fraud. In 1998,
 Mayor
 elect Xavier Suarez was stripped of his election victory by a Florida
 appeals court, reinstating Joe Carollo as mayor of Miami, finding that
 massive fraud had robbed him of victory at the polls four months
 prior. A trial court judge had previously ruled that the election was
 tainted by ``massive, well-conceived and well-orchestrated'' absentee
 ballot fraud in which even a dead man voted.
 (http://www.income-online.com/content/news/NEWS/MIAMI.html)

 11) The very same scandal-tainted Xavier Suarez currently sits on the
 executive committee of the Miami-Dade Republican Party and was
 specifically involved this year in helping to get out the Republican
 vote. He admitted on November 8th that "he helped fill out absentee
 

[CTRL] Fwd: Scalia's Son is Theodore Olson's Law Partner

[Kris Millegan]

SJ Mercury News
Dec. 13, 2000

Two justices' families linked to election case

Los Angeles Times

WASHINGTON -- Supreme Court justices rarely recuse themselves, but some
critics questioned whether Justices Antonin Scalia and Clarence Thomas
should have participated in the ruling on Bush vs. Gore because of the roles
of family members.
Lanny J. Davis, a former attorney in the Clinton White House, and others
call attention to the fact that Scalia's son Eugene is a Washington law
partner of Theodore B. Olson, the attorney who twice has argued before the
Supreme Court on behalf of Texas Gov. George W. Bush. Another son, John
Scalia, is an attorney in the Miami firm that has represented Bush in
Florida.
Thomas' wife, Virginia, is helping the Heritage Foundation, a conservative
think tank, collect applications from people seeking employment in a Bush
administration.

[CTRL] Advertising in the name of a martyrdom.

[Tsadowq]

-Caveat Lector-

Previous thread: ---big group hug---

Hello everyone,

While Duncan and June are quick to label my
protest as "censorship," the fact of the matter is
that this guy's first several posts were nothing
more than the over-exaggerated complaining
of a wannabe victim...with an advertisement
for his magazine conveniently connected to it.

Duncan's first posts to this list had very little to do with any
conspiracy at all. His posts were a purposeful and reckless
lashing out against whoever might have done wrong by
Duncan -- by means of not purchasing his magazine
or buying off onto the ideas perpetuated by it.

Duncan also accused people like myself of having ulterior
motives -- as he has also assumed that we dislike of his work.

In my case, nothing could be further from the truth. I am aware
of the existence of the magazine in question, but I have not
really read it well enough to have an opinion of it.

In fact, the greatest amount of writing that I have read by
Duncan's magazine's contributors, happens to be his own
bellyaching on this list.

And this fact was the initial burr under the saddle:

Duncan's obvious attempt to advertise his magazine by
creating controversy around his posts...even when there
was no real controversy extant.

Advertising as a victim is controversial, but it is hardly
controversial from a conspiracy point of view. How much
more likely it is, that even an outright advertisement would
be preferred to the attempt at cloaking commercials under
the guise of "everybody picks on me and my magazine."

If Duncan has a REAL conspiracy to talk about; if he has
a REAL issue to discuss; then so be it...but enough already
of this shameless advertising in the name of martyrdom.

Tsadowq

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Re: [CTRL] ---big group hug---

[William Shannon]

In a message dated 12/13/00 5:49:24 AM Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


How about if we all give Duncan a big group
hug, and maybe he will go away nicely?

Maybe we could hope the same of you!
I wonder why you and your ilk mock Nexus magazine and Duncan, this IS a conspiracy theory list and not a Rush room...seems you'd be more comfy in the latter.

Bill.

[CTRL] Welcome To Your Nightmare, George W.

[DIG alfred webre]

-Caveat Lector-

An astrologer friend of ours perused W's chart and sent us a note suggesting
W is entering his worst Nightmare. Alfred
  =
   A cursory perusal of Bush's chart suggests he is going
   to have a whole lot o trouble trying to create any
   sort of alliance or unity during his tenure. There are
   more undermining influences than there are helpful
   ones in his relationships. Its kind of like trying to
   make a high traction tire out of banana peels. . . on
   a road that just had a few tons of cooking oil dumped
   on it.

   Dat's Uranus folks. .  the loser wins and the winner
   loses.

   But what is more important here than who got in the
   Presidency is the statement this makes about the
   country and the psychological state of the collective
   psyche.

   The Trickster has decided to become very active. That
   suggests major lessons and an upheaval in the value
   system are imminent. . . that we need our faces
   slapped awake. This isn't the end of the Trickster's
   choreography. . .  this is only the opening act.
   Remember, the Trickster is not a preserver of the
   established order. . .he is the disrupter. . . and the
   opportunity to have a creative response to that
   disruption.

   Or a nervous breakdown.

   What better way to make that happen than by giving
   junior the keys to the country? 

__
EcoNews Service - Always online for Exopolitics  a Universe Ecology.
EcoNews http://www.ecologynews.com/
Prague  http://mujweb.cz/www/ecologynews/
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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[CTRL] HOW THE FLORIDA SUPREME COURT CAN SAVE DEMOCRACY?

[William Shannon]

HOW THE FLORIDA SUPREME COURT CAN SAVE DEMOCRACY?
THE FLORIDA SUPREME COURT JUSTICES, THEMSELVES, SHOULD  RECOUNT BY HAND, THE UNCOUNTED BALLOTS AND MEET THE CONTROLLING FEDERAL TIME-TABLE OF THE "SIXTH OF JANUARY".
by Kathryn Joanne Dixon © 2000 
Two hours before the day of December 12, 2000 ended, the Supreme Court of the United States reversed the Florida Supreme Court's decision mandating a recount, and remanded to the Florida Supreme Court so that it could rule in a manner "not inconsistent" with its per curium decision. The Supreme Court did not order the Florida Supreme Court to rule in a manner "consistent" with its opinion, as it does when directing lower Federal Courts upon remand.  State Supreme Courts have rights.
The Florida Supreme Court, can now fairly read the Supreme Court decision and  apply equal protection standards, i.e. apply a consistent fair standard throughout Florida in any recount of the vote.  In order to meet this Equal Protection standard of complete and consistent fairness regarding uncounted votes throughout Florida, the Supreme Court Justices, themselves can spend the next six days until December 18, 2000, counting the votes by hand themselves. There are only 60,000 votes to recount.  It can be done.  And who could challenge the Supreme Court's hand-count?  Would anyone ever challenge the Justices, themselves, as not be able to apply equal protection standards to the ballots they personally examined and decided upon. The Florida Supreme Court can also find that Constitutional Equal Protection demands that all  the uncounted votes be counted. 
What about the December 12 "safe-harbor" which allegedly runs the clock?
The Supreme Court's majority's per curium decision also stated that the December 12, 2000 date must be met by any Florida recount, because the safe-harbor benefits of 3 U. S. C. Sec. 5, apply.  The Supreme Court's majority ruled it would be impossible for the Florida Supreme Court to ensure equal protection in any recount before the close of December 12.  The Supreme Court knew that its decision was issued just a few hours before the stroke of midnight on December 12.  The Supreme Court, in effect, said, "recount the vote in accordance with Equal Protection, if you choose, Florida Supreme Court, but you can't get it done in a couple of hours, too bad, life is unfair, and the uncounted votes are nothing."
Elucidating the old "life is unfair" and too bad you didn't met the impossible deadline, doctrine, the majority Supreme Court Justices stated, per curium:

Seven Justices of the Court agree that there are constitutional problems with the recount ordered by the Florida Supreme Court that demand a remedy. See post, at 6 (Souter, J., dissenting); post, at 2, 15 (Breyer, J., dissenting). The only disagreement is as to the remedy. Because the Florida Supreme Court has said that the Florida Legislature intended to obtain the safe-harbor benefits of 3 U. S. C. Sec. 5, Justice Breyer's proposed remedy--remanding to the Florida Supreme Court for its ordering of a constitutionally proper contest until December 18-contemplates action in violation of the Florida election code, and hence could not be part of an "appropriate" order authorized by Fla. Stat. Sec. 102.168(8) (2000). 



Note that the above holding states refers only to the Florida election code, not to federal law pertaining to the time-table of choosing the electoral college.  In fact, the legislature of Florida, as the Florida Supreme Court acknowledged, legislated that Florida's electoral vote be decided by the December 12 "safe harbor" so that the US Congress could not reject this votes. The  3 U. S. C. Sec. 5 "safe-harbor provision" provides that, where a "State shall have provided, by laws enacted prior to (election day), for its final determination of any controversy or contest concerning the appointment of . . . electors . . . by judicial or other methods," the subsequently chosen electors enter a safe harbor free from congressional challenge.
But there can still be a certification of the Florida electoral vote after December 12, which would, of course, not be free from Congressional challenge, but could still be valid, depending upon the Congress' decision as to the validity of that electoral vote. The choice is between 1) an unchallenged slate of electors, chosen without counting all the votes - a clear violation of Equal Protection, or 2) a slate of electors chosen after a full and fair count of all the votes - which complies with Equal Protection. The Florida legislature could not have intended to violate Federal Equal Protection by utilizing the safe-harbor provision. Constitutional Equal Protection over-rides and trumps the Florida election code provision which requires compliance with the December 12 "safe-harbor" date.
The Supreme Court majority ruled that federal law, not state law, ultimately controls this Presidential election contest.  What is the controlling federal law governing the time 

[CTRL] Fwd: Politicians in Robes - by Prof. Jack D. Forbes

[radman]

-Caveat Lector-

--- Forwarded Message Follows ---
Date sent:  Tue, 12 Dec 2000 13:44:12 -0800 (PST)
From:   "Jack D. Forbes" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject:Politicians in Robes

NATIVE INTELLIGENCE
A Column By
Jack D. Forbes
Native American Studies
University of California, Davis

 This column's focus:
 POLITICIANS IN ROBES
 AND THE THEFT OF THE PRESIDENCY

 In a 5-4 partisan decision the "conservative" members of the
Supreme Court demonstrated that their loyalties to the Republican Party
and to the plutocracy take precedence over the constitutional principles
which they have espoused. The supposed "conservative" "strict
constructionist" and "state's rights" members of the court, including
chief partisan Antonin Scalia, decided to become "loose constructionists"
and "big government federalists" in order to block a manual count, under
careful Florida judicial supervision, of Florida's uncounted ballots.

It would appear that it will be a majority of the US Supreme Court which
will select the president, and not the voters or electors. But that fits in
well with the Bush campaign strategy which always saw Florida as a
"must-win" state. The Bushies apparently pulled out all the stops to block
as many African-Americans and Democrats from voting, or having their votes
counted.

Interestingly, Chief Justice William Rehnquist has been alleged
to have organized similar harassment campaigns in south Phoenix in his
younger partisian politician days. Of course, the Republicans have long
played "hard ball" in terms of blocking people of color and immigrants
from voting (as in Orange County, California) or in terms of Nixon's
strategy of using the power of the incumbency to overwhelm his opponent
(and not just with the Watergate burglary of Democratic offices).

Florida's scandal harks also back to the charges that George Bush (Senior)
and Ronald Reagan knew of a conspiracy with Iranian extremists to prolong
the embassy hostage crisis in 1980, thus leading to the defeat of
President Jimmy Carter. Subsequently, the Reagan administration made
illegal deals with Iran in the Iran-Contra scandal. Bush senior managed to
escape a trial but, in my opinion, the suspicion remains that he or his
cohorts were very much involved. The question still remains: why would the
Iranians have risked postponing a deal until after Reagan came to power?

Regarding Florida, we read reports that the Bush machine (Jeb Bush is
governor) consistently has sought to block, by hook or crook, a manual
recounting of votes. They have sought to block and delay a full count
until it will be too late for the actual numbers to have any impact. The
US Supreme Court decision to block the counting in progress makes sense
only when seen as a partisan "coup d'état," a seizure of the presidency.
In an opposite maneuver, the Bush team has also sought to count absentee
ballots which resulted from an apparently illegal conspiracy between local
Republican officials in two counties and GOP party workers. The judicial
system, at this stage, seems to be willing to wink at this clear violation
of state law. Similarly, the violation of African-American voting rights
will likely be tossed off as a normal kind of political misbehavior.

Antonin Scalia and his allies pretend to be strict constructionists and
conservatives. They are not. Instead they are legislating judges who
constantly invent judicial theories to advance the interests of wealthy
men, i.e., plutocrats.

For example, they consistently seek to diminish the
authority of Indian tribes in spite of the absolutely clear language of
the constitution's commerce clause. This clause defines the power of the
federal government over Indian tribes and that power is strictly limited
to the regulation of commerce "with" the tribes and nothing more. But
Scalia and Clarence Thomas et al consistently seek to advance the
authority of "big government" at the expense of Native local
self-determination, citing not the constitution but judicially-invented
doctrines.

Similarly, Scalia et al have overturned our constitutional
right to freedom of speech by allowing "money" to have free speech rather
than individual human beings. In other words, if we were in a crowded room
and one rich man had a microphone and sound system which he alone could
use he would have the right to blast his message to us, silencing all the
rest of us. That is neither conservative nor strict constructionist, but
totally invented.

In any case, isn't the bottom line for the Bush campaign
and for the right-wing on the Supreme Court exactly the same: a fear that
Al Gore really won the popular vote in Florida? What happens next? Can the
US Senate censure the Supreme Court? Will some brave members of the House,
of both parties, refuse to accept any electors from Florida on the grounds
of possible fraud? Will the Florida Supreme Court rise up and challenge
Washington, D. C.?

In the end, the 

[CTRL] ANTICHRIST Vatican, appears to mean divination by the serpent!!!

[Guitar Virtuoso]

-Caveat Lector-

The key source of the present re-divinisation and de-secularisation, that
is, SUPERSTITIONISATION of the world, stems from the demonically controlled
Vatican and its US sycophants, the Graham's, Hagee's, Schuller's,
Copeland's, Hinn's, Packer's, Van Impe's, Hal Lindsey's, Jerry Falwell's,
Colson's, Pat Robinson's,  and other innumerable rabble of 'holy' Pharisees,
Religious Sorcerers and their blind SHEOPLE.

Does not SATAN teach that "Antichrist is to come,"  as do these above, his
co-workers, who call the Vatican Antichrist their spiritual "BROTHER,"  and
teach so contrary to the scripture? :

"Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist
shall come, EVEN NOW ARE there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is
the last time." 1 John 2:18

The scripture teaches that ANTICHRIST was "EVEN NOW" alive and well in Johns
day, and history teaches likewise existant throughout its ages. Yet the
mealy-mouthed U.S. preachers link arm and arm with Satan and his "church,"
to teach the very opposite in order to hide their true puppet master, the
Vatican.

http://www.nitecop.com/new_age_movement.htm

"Interestingly enough, the cosmic symbol for Quetzalcoatl was a feathered
serpent! Here is another interesting observation. The origin of the word
"Vatican" also derived from two words. The Latin word "vatic" or "vatis"
means "prophet or soothsayer." The combined word, "Vatican," appears to mean
"divination by the serpent"! The symbol for Astrology is often shown in
pagan arts as a serpent in a circular position with his tail in his mouth.
This represented eternal life."

For anyone with a picture editing program, take the image of the "Baphomet"
and turn the pic upside down, to view a familiar "Star Wars" hero!

http://www.nitecop.com/Image5.gif

May the farce be with you ... or is that ... bewitch you?

"The Hexagram is one of the most evil signs in Witchcraft. It is commonly
worn today by both deceived Jews and some Christians. The circle with point
in centre is another phallic symbol representing the Universe and the
Sun-god."

http://www.nitecop.com/new_ag1.jpg

The author of "All Roads lead to Rome," Michael de Semlyen, comments
interestingly that the inception for both New Ageism and the Pentecostal
Charismatic movements, are rooted in Catholic JESUIT mysticism and theology.
This would seem to fit with Kris Milligan's comments here that the
Charismatic movement was started by British Intel operatives and is also a
CIA front, which alike, has worked hand-in-hand with Vatican's globalist
ambitions and religio-political hegemony.

Rome running the show:
http://www.lmn.org/catalog/categories/71.1.html

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Re: [CTRL] Jesus was a Liberal

[Prudence L. Kuhn]

-Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/13/2000 3:50:43 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Right on Mulva! Don't let the pagans silence you, what you said is
absolutely right. Jesus was not a liberal by today's standards, as some
idgets claim. I never heard Jesus preach that abortion was a woman's
God-given right to choose, or that homosexuality was a choice everyone needed
to make. God never said that it was OK to get your weewee sucked on the job;
as long as it wasn't REAL sex. He never said it was good to lie, cheat or
steal, as long as it benefitted your political career. Never feeling secure
enough in the truth to apply Jesus' teaching to real life is exactly what
these unbelievers do every day. So, it is easy to understand how naive they
are and how sadly misled. Keep up the good work. God bless you, Jessie 

And he didn't say that sex and birth were the only things that concerned him
either.  As for lies, cheating and theft that benefits a political career,
don't you think that any of that stuff that's been going on for the last
month has been just a touch suspect?  The Republicans don't care about lies,
cheating, theft, abortion or oral sex as long as it's not a Democrat who is
involved.  Republicans can do anything they want to, and it's just ducky.  My
cousin lives in Florida, and was telling me about the guy across the street
who marched at abortion clinics, yelling at the women, etc.  Well, he has the
right to his convictions, I said.  Yes, she said, but his teenage daughter
has had three abortions.  So it's not all abortions that upset this fellow.
It's just the ones outside of his immediate family.  Prudy

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Re: [CTRL] Fw: Re: [CTRL] Jesus was a Liberal

[Prudence L. Kuhn]

-Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/13/2000 9:46:59 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 Prudy, you don't know what I know about the life of Christ nor what I
 consider important.  This attack on people's religion is unwarranted on a
 conspiracy list and plenty tacky and tasteless.  It is the same as espousing
 a religious viewpoint, YOURS, and I deeply resent your critique of my
 religious practices and values.  Typical of kind and loving liberals who
 spew forth daily doses of venom toward anybody who does not agree with their
 socialist agenda. 

You must not take my general statements as personal attacks.  I know
absolutely nothing about your religious practices and values.  They are
strictly your business, and I promise not to interfere.  I find hypocrisy
particularly disgusting, but only you know if you are or are not.  I don't
really want to know.  Prudy

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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[CTRL] TurbulentTimes # 2

[radman]

-Caveat Lector-

TurbulentTimes # 2 -- December 2000

A weekly compendium of direct action news.

--A RadTimes production--
---
"The first duty of a revolutionary is to get away with it."
--Abbie Hoffman
---
How to assist TurbulentTimes-- (See ** at end.)
---
Contents:
---
--Rioters, police clash at EU meeting
--Protesters riot as EU leaders hold meeting to urge unity
--US Army detains 1700 at School of Americas
--Four Protesters Arrested In March to Free Activist
--Protesters disrupt hearing
--Protest ends with activists' arrests
--Wolfensohn arrives amid Left protests
--The Real Thing: Democracy as a Contact Sport
--Protesters Taunt Troops with Mirrors
Linked stories:
 *Posters for J20
---
Begin stories:
---
Rioters, police clash at EU meeting

Leftists, anarchists blame trade bloc for host of social ills

Los Angeles Times
Friday 8 December 2000

Protesters ran amok in the chic, palm-lined streets of the
Riviera's main resort city and police fought back with tear
gas and stun grenades Thursday as the European Union opened
its most important meeting in a decade.

For the rioters, a motley collection of leftist
revolutionaries, anarchists and separatists, the 15-nation
EU is a cog in the process of globalization that they blame
for many of the world's ills.

As the trade bloc's leaders gathered in the morning at a
squat downtown conference centre aptly nicknamed "The
Bunker" by Nice residents, an estimated 4,000 demonstrators
set upon the site and got within 100 yards.

Young men, many of whom wore cowls or kerchiefs to hide
their faces, hurled rocks, set fire to a bank branch, tossed
fire extinguishers through shop windows and painted slogans
such as "Death to Money" on storefronts.

French officials, hosts for the Nice summit, had vowed that
there would be none of the embarrassing mayhem here that
disturbed last year's World Trade Organization meeting in
Seattle or the International Monetary Fund's gathering in
September in Prague, Czech Republic.

Choking clouds of smoke wafted in the direction of the
convention centre, making French President Jacques Chirac
sneeze as he stood outside to greet foreign leaders. Some
dignitaries, including leaders of other countries that want
to join the EU, coughed and mopped their eyes.

"These acts are radically contrary to the democratic
traditions of all European countries," Chirac later said in
disgust. Authorities said 20 police officers were hurt in
the fracas on Nice's rain-slicked streets, one seriously.
Forty-five protesters were arrested.

The Nice summit is considered the EU's most crucial since
the 1991 Maastricht Treaty, which laid the basis for a
common European currency, the euro, and serious
consideration of common policies in fields including
defence, citizenship and protection of the environment.

The agenda here calls for the EU to reform its inner
mechanisms so it can function after absorbing new members,
chiefly ex-communist countries in Eastern and Central
Europe. Twelve nations are negotiating to join, including
the three former Baltic republics of the Soviet Union.

---
Protesters riot as EU leaders hold meeting to urge unity

Friday, December 08, 2000

By PAUL AMES
ASSOCIATED PRESS

NICE, France - Hundreds of stone-throwing protesters rushed
barricades around a conference center where European leaders
met yesterday for a milestone summit on unity. French riot
police drove them back with tear gas and stun grenades, and
45 were detained.

The clashes, which recalled similar demonstrations that have
marred other high-profile international gatherings in recent
months, created scenes of chaos in this resort Riviera city.

Some banks and businesses were covered in graffiti - with
slogans ranging from "Long live ETA," referring to the
violent Basque separatist group, to "Death to Money."
Streets were littered with stones, pieces of wood, broken
signs and used tear gas canisters.

Tear gas wafted across the entrance to the mammoth, concrete
building during the morning confrontation, causing French
President Jacques Chirac to sneeze and Prime Minister Lionel
Jospin to step away from photographers so he could blow his
nose.

Chirac later harshly criticized the violence. "We solemnly
condemn these acts. They are radically opposed to the
democratic traditions of all our countries," he told a news
conference.

At least 20 

[CTRL] California Blackouts--What's Going On?

[William Shannon]

12/12/00: California Blackouts--What's Going On? text version
Rolling power blackouts have hit California, in what may be a warning for the rest of the country. Families have been asked to turn off their Christmas lights, businesses have had to shut down. Soon people may find themselves sitting in the dark at home. On some days, as much as one third of the electricity needed during the peak hours of 4 to 7 p.m. has not been available. Utility executives warn that the states’ electrical system is on the verge of collapse. "People are in a heap of trouble," said S. David Freeman, of the LA Department of Water and Power. "This shouldn’t happen this time of year." Hours before Governor Gray Davis was set to turn on the lights for the states’ official Christmas tree, the local utility company was still trying to find the 1,000 megawatts of electricity it was short of that day. Governor Gray flipped on the lights, gave a short speech, then flipped them off again.
New York used to be the place that trend-spotters kept paid attention to, because events happened there first, then spread to the rest of the country. In the past few decades, however, trend-setting has moved to California. This is why we need to ask ourselves why this is happening now, when California is actually losing population to other states and it is not in the midst of a heat wave. Is this a dire prediction about the future for the rest of the country?
One reason this is happening is that an unusually large number of power generators have been shut down for maintenance or because the don’t meet air quality standards. Also, California used to be the most populous state on the West Coast, but now Washington and Oregon are gaining in population and demanding more of the power resources in that area.
To make matters worse, wholesale natural gas prices are ten times higher than they were last year, meaning that despite the blackouts, customers are in for a shock when they get their utility bills.
Loretta Lynch, president of the Public Utilities Commission, insists that there is no emergency. She made this statement seated in a dark San Francisco office, lit only by a glowing computer screen. "We have the power," she said, but she agreed that one quarter of the state’s generators are not up and running. "People want a magic pill, and they aren’t going to get it," she added.
 
California voted to deregulate its electrical industry four years ago, believing this would lower utility prices. But private utility companies have little incentive to keep a high level of reserves, so they are vulnerable when utility needs soar or when gas prices are inflated. Congress has backed big business over government control during the last 8 years, and is certain to do so in the future, under a Republican administration, so we may see this problem spread to other states, especially since global warming will probably bring us colder winters and hotter summers.
Sources: Reuters, The New York Times, AP, ABC News


http://www.whitleysworld.com/news121200b.html

[CTRL] Alquds Intefada UPDATE 13/12/2000

[William Shannon]

Alquds Intefada UPDATE every 30 min.
13/12/2000

Time: 13:00PM
Israeli special force known as Special Unit assassinated the youth Abbas Alewaiy, 26 years old in the heart of the West Bank city of Hebron.

Time: 12:00PM
Israeli occupation authorities handed over demolition warrants to four house-owners in the West Bank village of Um Al-rehani today, under the pretext of building without permission.

Time: 11:30AM
Israeli occupation forces prevented fuel tanks from entering the West Bank village of Y'abad which has been under curfew for the second day. Israeli occupation authorities turned some of Palestinian houses' roofs into military outposts.

Time: 11:00AM
Tens of Jewish settlers from the Jewish settlement of Kadim, West Bank closed the main road connecting the West Bank districts of Qalqilia and Nablus. They prevented passing by vehicles from crossing the road.

Time: 10:30AM
Israeli occupation forces broke into the West Bank town of Deir Estya, Salfit district. They arrested three citizens.

Time: 9:00AM
The youth Ahmed Ismail Motair, 45 years old, from the refugee camp of Khan Yonis, fell martyr today morning after being shot in the head by the Israeli forces that broke into the camp.

Time: 8:00AM
The Israeli occupation forces bulldozed three houses at Alqatatwa locality, Khan Yonis, Gaza Strip yesterday dawn following a new Israeli massacre against Palestinian unarmed citizen. They also shelled heavily and brutally the refugee camp of Khan Yonis. According to eyewitnesses, two Israeli bulldozers attempted to break into the camp to remove the piles of sand placed by citizens to protect their houses and children from the Israeli daily fire shooting.

Time: 7:30AM
Israeli occupation forces, while breaking into the refugee camp of Khan Yonis Gaza Strip early this morning, killed three Palestinian citizens. Using tanks and helicopters, these forces shelled the refugee camp with rockets in retaliation to steadfastening of unarmed civilian refugees while protecting their camp. Among those killed "martyred", Mahdi Ahmed Akila, 35 years old, Jamal Abu Alola, 25 years old and Jabr Alsabe', 25 years old. They were shot in the upper parts of their bodies, mainly in the chest and head. 

Re: [CTRL] WP: A Pardon For Clinton

[Prudence L. Kuhn]

-Caveat Lector-

In a message dated 12/13/2000 2:38:09 AM Eastern Standard Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

  The prospect ought to be unthinkable.
 Whether Al Gore or George W.  Bush becomes president, the new
 president should preempt any indictment by pardoning his
 predecessor. 

Anyone who suspects that any Republican will ever pardon Clinton for anything
needs to take a deep breath and remember what's been going on for the last
eight years.  Talk about a pipedream.  Prudy

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[CTRL] RadTimes # 132

[radman]

nal Monetary Fund and locking down to the sounds
of drums and cheers in D.C.; street puppets, dancing,
fire-eating, Native drumming -- and some rather unorthodox
cheerleading.

It's like nothing we've seen in the United States since
Vietnam. But unlike the activism of the '60s, this movement
isn't the creation of one particular generation or class of
people. It isn't just white college students from middle-
and upper-class families who've been protesting the WTO, but
grandmothers, high school students and blue-collar workers.

And it's growing.

Still, there's a lot of work to be done, both in educating
the American TV-addicted masses and in bridging the gap
between the middle-class experience of most progressives and
the struggle that defines the lives of colonized peoples,
including those within our own borders. A conscious effort
must be made to reach out to those who don't understand the
issues -- and to those whose daily lives make the violence
of Seattle seem trivial.

Often, Americans tend to think of themselves as leading the
way, whether with regard to technology or entertainment.
When it comes to social revolution, however, we are
following, just waking up from a comfort-induced stupor.
Seattle did not spark a global movement -- it simply joined
one that was already in motion.

Regardless of how you look at it, Seattle was and is cause
for celebration. Changing the world is a long-term process.
And we've shown we're up to the challenge.

---
Seven new Ebola cases reported; death toll rises to 161

December 13, 2000

KAMPALA, Uganda (AP) --
Seven new cases of the Ebola virus have
been identified in Uganda in the past 72 hours, and the death toll
has risen to 161, a health official said Tuesday.

The death and two of the new cases were reported in Masindi
district, 200 kilometers (125 miles) northwest of Kampala, Dr. Alex
Opio, assistant director for national disease control, said.

The five other new cases were identified in the northern town of
Gulu, 360 kilometers (225 miles) north of the capital, where the
outbreak of the deadly virus was first confirmed on Oct. 14, Opio
said.

``In Gulu, things are getting better,'' Opio told a briefing.
``The number of newly detected cases is getting fewer and fewer,
and if it continues like this, Ebola, within a few weeks will be
history.''

He said health workers will, however, continue informing
Ugandans how to avoid contracting the disease. Since the outbreak
began, 407 Ebola cases have been confirmed.

Opio said the response to an appeal for more volunteer health
workers had been encouraging, and by Tuesday 20 volunteers
including nurses, doctors and paramedics were ready to be deployed
in the affected districts.

Experts from the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and
Prevention, the World Health Organization and Doctors Without
Borders are in Uganda helping authorities to contain the disease.

On Monday, Dr. Paul Onek, head of health services in Gulu, said
authorities were monitoring the health of more than 4,000 people
who had had contact with Ebola victims in northern Uganda.

The Ebola virus can take up to two weeks to incubate. Once the
first flu-like symptoms develop, the patient can transmit the virus
through contact with bodily fluids, such as mucus, saliva and
blood.

In later stages, the victim begins bleeding internally, vomiting
blood and producing bloody diarrhea and eventually bleeding from
all orifices. At this point, and for a short time after death, the
patient is most contagious.

There is no known medical cure for the disease, but victims
aggressively treated with fluids to fight dehydration stand better
chances of survival.

---
Linked stories:

Democrats urge Gore to concede
http://itn.co.uk/news/20001213/world/01uselection.shtml
Al Gore's hopes of becoming the next US President seem to be slipping away
following the Supreme Court's judgment. The nine judges stopped short of
handing the election to the Republican candidate but ruled that the case
should be sent back to Florida's Supreme Court.


Wall Street looks to move on
http://www.msnbc.com/modules/exports/ct_infobeatBIZ.asp?/news/502659.asp
Financial analysts predicted a short-term rally on Wall Street after the
U.S. Supreme Court dealt a crushing blow to Vice President Al Gore on Tuesday.


Overseas markets react to ruling
http://www.msnbc.com/modules/exports/ct_infobeatBIZ.asp?/news/502740.asp
Europe's main markets edged lower Wednesday morning, giving up earlier
gains after the U.S. Supreme Court paved the way for the election victory
of George W. Bush.


Washington's new world weapon: climate chang

[CTRL] quote?

[Nessie]

-Caveat Lector-

"Those who cast the votes decide nothing.  Those who count the votes
decide everything."-- attributed to Joseph Stalin

But where and when did he say it? Or did somebody make this up?

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[CTRL] McVeigh's Notice To Court

[William Shannon]

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLORADO 

Criminal Action No. 96-CR-68-M
Civil Action No. OO-M-094
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, Plaintiff,
V.
TIMOTHY JAMES McVEIGH, Defendant
NOTICE TO COURT

Counsel for Mr. McVeigh have been instructed by their client to not file a Notice of Appeal from the district court's Order of October 12, 2000 dismissing the Motion to Vacate Conviction and Sentence Pursuant to 28 U.S.C. §2255. Counsel believes that there are meritorious grounds to appeal. Counsel further believes that Mr. McVeigh is entitled to a hearing on the issues raised by the §2255 Motion and ultimately a new trial. Despite counsel's strongly held beliefs regarding the propriety of an appeal, the Rules of Professional Conduct give to the client the ultimate authority to make decisions regarding whether to take an appeal. If the court determines that Mr. McVeigh is competent and that his decision is knowingly and intelligently made, whether to pursue an appeal is Mr. McVeigh's decision and counsel cannot ethically ignore or override that decision. If the court determines that Mr. McVeigh's decision is not knowing, intelligent, and competently made, until such time as the validity of die waiver of appeal is established, and in order to preserve jurisdiction to consider any appeal, this pleading shall serve as Notice of Appeal from the court's Order of October 12, 2000 as required by Federal Rule of Appellate Procedure 4(a). At Mr. McVeigh's direction, his statement regarding his decision to forgo further appeals is attached hereto.

Respectfully submitted, Dennis W. Hartley, P.C.
1749 South Eighth Street, Suite 5
Colorado Springs, CO 80906
(719) 635-5521
(719) 635-5760 

Nathan Chambers
Carrigan Chamber! Dansky  Zonies, P.C.
1601 Blake Street, Suite 300
Denver, CO 80202
(303)825-
(303) 825-4010

M. David Lindsey
Lindsey  Bruce, P.C.
730 17th Street, Suite 370
Denver, CO 80202
(303) 575-5498
(303) 573-5537 
CERTIFICATE OF MAILING
I hereby certify that on December 11, 2000, I placed a true and complete copy of the foregoing Notice to Court, in the U.S. Mail, postage prepaid, properly sealed and addressed to:
Scan Connelly U.S. Attorney's Office 1961 Stout Street, #1300 Denver, CO 80294



UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLORADO Criminal Action No. 96-CR-68-M
Civil Action No. OO-M-094
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, Plaintiff,
v.
TIMOTHY JAMES McVEIGH, Defendant.
STATEMENT OF TIMOTHY McVEIGH REGARDING NOTICE OF INTENT TO FOREGO FURTHER APPEALS I, Timothy James McVeigh, do hereby advise the court and all parties that I do not -wish to pursue any further appeals in this case. I believe that it is my right to forego any appellate remedies that may be available. In United States v. Hammer. 226 F.3d 229 (3rd Cir, 2000), the Third Circuit acknowledged that a defendant under sentence of death may-waive his right to direct appeal. My case has already been through direct appeal and the Tenth Circuit affirmed the conviction and sentence. If Hammer was allowed to waive his right to direct appeal I should certainly be allowed to forego appeal from denial of my section 2255 motion.
I believe that I am fully competent to make this decision. If the court thinks that a psychological evaluation is necessary to make certain that I am competent, I will submit to such an evaluation. I will not justify or explain my decision to any psychologist but will answer questions reasonably related to my competency.

My attorneys have explained to me the issues that they would raise on any appeal. I understand the appellate issues and understanding those issues I persist in my decision to forego appeal. This decision to forego appeal is done against the advice of my lawyers. By foregoing appellate rights I am not waiving my right to petition for executive clemency. I am waiving further review by the judicial branch of the federal government. I am not waiving review by the executive branch. It is not my desire by waiving appeal to delay my execution. I request that the court set an execution date, or order the Director of the Bureau of Prisons to do the same, with the execution date to be within 120 days of the filing of this notice. This waiver is my decision and these are my words intended to convey my decision. I have asked my lawyers to file this Notice with the Court. 

Timothy McVeigh
December 07, 2000 

[CTRL] For those who believe the Constitution is a living document

[MICHAEL SPITZER]

-Caveat Lector-

http://www.lewrockwell.com/sobran/sobran119.html

Symptoms of Tyranny

by Joseph Sobran


In The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire, the historian Edward
Gibbon says of the first Roman emperor:

"Augustus was sensible that mankind is governed by names; nor was
he deceived in his expectation that the senate and people would
submit to slavery, provided they were respectfully assured that
they still enjoyed their ancient freedom."

Two thousand years later, mankind is no less deluded by
flattering words. The American people still think they live under
their Constitution, because the U.S. Government tells them so. Of
course that same government also tells them what the Constitution
means, and the meaning keeps changing, and with every new meaning
the government increases its own power.

And few people see the logical absurdity of letting a government
decide the meaning of the very document that is supposed to limit
that government's powers. Could anything be more irrational? If
the federal government can change the Constitution, which was
allegedly "unalterable by the government," why bother having a
written constitution at all?

Sometimes logic needs to be supported by experience. But
Americans have forgotten their own history, so they can't
remember, and therefore can't imagine, an alternative.

Tyranny seldom announces itself. A tyrant doesn't have to be a
dictator wearing a uniform and a funny mustache; he may be a
suave and affable fellow, professing his love for "the people"
and offering free lunches. In fact, a tyranny may exist without
an individual tyrant. A whole government, even a democratically
elected one, may be tyrannical.

An infallible sign of tyranny is a welfare state, which is
inevitably accompanied by high taxes. Most tyrannies subsist less
by committing atrocities than by creating dependents. The trick
is to get as many people as possible getting their income from
the government. Since governments don' t produce wealth, they can
pay benefits to dependents only by imposing taxes on productive
people, thereby forcing one part of the population to support
another. The parasitic segment of the population will always be
loyal to the government, reinforcing its power.

Franklin Roosevelt knew this when he created a national welfare
state. He once predicted confidently that "no damn politician"
would ever succeed in repealing "my Social Security system." And
like most successful tyrants, Roosevelt was charming and popular.

Another mark of tyranny is paper money. Once upon a time, a
"dollar" meant a fixed amount of specie, or precious metal. The
government could no more change its value than it could change
the length of a week.

But it's essential to tyranny to be able to manipulate the value
of money. Paper money, not backed by gold or silver, is perfect
for this purpose. It gives the government enormous economic
leverage over the entire population. An unstable currency, whose
value is at the mercy of the state, is the equivalent of a
constitution of unstable meaning, which allows the government to
decide what rules it will operate under.

Tyranny is also marked by the centralization of power. This is
not only a sign but in a sense the substance of tyranny. The
collapse of the old federal separation of powers, in which most
powers were retained by states and localities, has been
accompanied by a vast increase in the powers of the federal
government (which is no longer truly federal); and much of the
new power is exercised by judges and bureaucrats who are both
unelected and hard to remove. The growth of bureaucracy and
administrative law has made the executive branch of the federal
government infinitely stronger than it was under the
Constitution.

The old federal republic is well on its way to becoming a
monolith. The centralization of power, the evisceration of the
Constitution, the issuing of funny money, and the expansion of
the welfare state are some of the insidious steps by which we
have moved from freedom to tyranny without realizing it.

The word "tyranny" sounds melodramatic. Americans think their
political system is immune to it. They associate it with
stereotypes of nasty dictators, forgetting the many other forms
it may take.

But the authors of the Constitution recognized tyranny as the
prevalent condition of mankind and a constant danger even to free
men, especially when they forget how fragile freedom really is.

December 13, 2000

=
 Kadosh, Kadosh, Kadosh, YHVH, TZEVAOT

  FROM THE DESK OF:
 *Michael Spitzer*  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  ~~~
  The Best Way To Destroy Enemies Is To Change Them To Friends
=

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Re: [CTRL] Fw: Re: [CTRL] Jesus was a Liberal

[Nessie]

-Caveat Lector-

Actually, Jesus wasn't a liberal. He was a revolutionary. That's why
they killed him. Had he been a liberal, he would have supported the
status quo and they would have left him alone. Instead, he went downtown
and incited a riot and the rest is history.

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
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Re: [CTRL] WP: A Pardon For Clinton

[Nessie]

-Caveat Lector-

it's still hard to believe he would make  the grave mistake of
prosecuting Clinton.


Unless he actually wants to sleep with the fish.

Which reminds me, let's not forget Bush's own body count:

   http://www.bk2k.com/bushbodycount/home.html

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
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Re: [CTRL] Challenging the Myth That Bush Won

[Samantha L.]

-Caveat Lector-

CHALLENGING THE MYTH THAT BUSH WON:
A CHRISTMASSY KIND OF COUP
By Carla Binion

Here comes junta Claus.  There is nothing like a heartwarming bloodless coup
d'etat to put that holiday feeling in the air.  As we embrace George W., heal
all dissent and sweep voting irregularities and racial discrimination under
the rug, let's raise a glass of eggnog to Santa Claus.  We take our myths
seriously here.

We are told our leaders know best, that the ruling class who own all the
banks and hold all the self-appointed political offices should play a
parental role.  The Supreme Court has spoken, and the masses of us are to
quake and kneel as if we were awed children and Daddy had just bellowed.

However, democracy was not on its knees when abolitionists stood against
slavery; when civil libertarians fought McCarthyism; when coal miners and
steel workers stared down the robber barons' union busters.  Why should we
kneel to this obvious coup?

Joseph Smitherman was first elected mayor of Selma, Alabama, as a
segregationist.  Over time he grew more moderate and even appointed nonwhite
officials.  Changes such as that do not just magically "happen."  Smitherman
changed in response to the Voting Rights Act of 1965, an act that doubled
African-American voter participation.

Leon Panetta believes in Santa Claus. Yesterday, Panetta, speaking for
legions of alleged moderates, told Chris Matthews he believed in the myth
that the Supreme Court judges would not be partisan in their decision.

Panetta also said Democrats should not be divisive at this time but should
rally around Bush, our mythical president-elect.  Not only that, he said the
whole country should perpetuate the Bush-actually-won myth with one voice and
with convincing earnestness.

Civil liberties and better government -- including women's rights, voting
rights, improved conditions for labor -- were won by challenging the myths
that prop up tyrants -- not perpetuating them.  I am not talking about armed
revolution or ignoring the rule of law.  None of those civil liberties were
won in that way.  They came about because sufficient numbers of people called
a myth a myth and took action to move political leaders of conscience to
change existing laws.

This bloodless coup, where we are likely installing a president who did not
actually win the election, should not be cheerfully and mindlessly embraced.
The achievements of the civil-rights movement, including The Voting Rights
Act of 1965, mean nothing if in this election thousands of African-American
votes are tossed out.

African-Americans turned out in record numbers to vote in this election.
What was the purpose if we allow the myth of the Bush win to stand?  What was
the purpose of the entire civil-rights struggle to gain voting rights if this
myth stands?

Powerful leaders will never change and bad laws will never be amended, unless
the people challenge them.  As Frederick Douglass said, "Power concedes
nothing without a demand.  It never has, and it never will."

Al Gore will concede today with appropriate bowing, scraping and puffery.  He
has no choice but to support the national myths and paternal rulers.  If the
abolitionists had caved this easily, we would still be contending with the
Antebellum South.  However, this election has less to do with Bush and Gore
than with civil liberties and national conscience.

In the aftermath of this all too noticeable Republican coup, people of
conscience should: (1) Call the myth a myth.  (2) Urge congressional
Democrats to investigate allegations of racial discrimination and vote fraud
in Florida.  (3) Move to use the Freedom of Information Act in order to go
ahead and count the ballots after the fact.  We should do it now before the
ballots are declared a matter of "national security" and sealed.

Let the folks who believe in the Bush win, paternal leaders, a non-partisan
judiciary  and other national myths yammer on about unity and healing.  Let
the rest of us do the real work to make the myth of democracy a reality.

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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] Fwd: Original October Surprise Player ('80) NOW in Bush/Cheney Mob!/Fwd

[Kris Millegan]

12.13.00
Original October Surprise Player ('80) NOW in Bush/Cheney Mob!/Fwd



WELCOME BACK, to the "BOYS FROM BRAZIL!"

LET THE REICH BEGIN!! SIEG HEIL, MEIN KOMMANDANT!



NewsHawk® Inc.
±±±
Subject: October Surprise Conspirator on Bush-Cheney Team
Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2000 19:04:54 -0800 (PST)
From: virtual agent [EMAIL PROTECTED]





Writing in his column, "Behind the Scenes in the Beltway," government
whistle-blower Al Martin reminds his readers that an old October
Surprise operative, C. Boyden Gray, has become part of the Bush-Cheney
team in the Florida Election Fraud Fiasco.

"Bush-Cheney's attorney and George Bush Sr.'s personal attorney, as well
as presidential attorney C. Boyden Gray is the famous 'Charles Smith' of
the October Surprise scandal," he writes.

October Surprise was the name given to a scheme which corrupted the 1980
presidential election by bribing the Iranians who held 52 American
prisoners hostage Teheran.

The intent of this successful plot was to alter the presidential
election -- to bring about the defeat of President Jimmy Carter and to
elect the Reagan-Bush ticket by withholding the release of the American
hostages until after the election.

"Gray's prominent facial feature, i.e., his big nose, was remembered by
hotel clerks in Paris and Madrid, and it led to the busting open of the
October Surprise Scandal," writes Martin.

"Gray went along with George Bush Sr. and others to those meetings in
Paris and Madrid in 1980 with Iranian officials."

In other words, Gray, who was part of the October Surprise criminal
conspiracy to steal the 1980 election, is now a Bush-Cheney Team 2000 member.

"The Bush-Cheney Team now has the old crowd of perjurers and liars,"
continues Martin. "Cheney came right out and said on MSNBC, as far as he
was concerned, the first thing he wanted to do was to stop a current GAO
audit of Department of Defense expenditures in the Redstone Arsenal and
the Central Missile Command Base in Huntsville, Alabama."

"GAO has had an ongoing investigation of
corruption. The first thing Cheney wants to do as Vice President is stop
the investigation."

The column made its debut online in November, exclusively on Al Martin Raw
(http://www.almartinraw.com)

Re: [CTRL] Advertising in the name of a martyrdom.

[nexusmagazine]

-Caveat Lector-

Duncan's first posts to this list had very little to do with any
conspiracy at all. His posts were a purposeful and reckless
lashing out against whoever might have done wrong by
Duncan -- by means of not purchasing his magazine
or buying off onto the ideas perpetuated by it.

Not only are you a coward, but you are also sloppy.

IF you had cared to check, I entered the fray in response to someone's
posting that the 'entire new age movement' is out to kill all Jews.  I
felt I had ample qualifications to comment, and I did.

After a couple of to and fro posts, you and your other fascist cronies
started smearing myself and NEXUS.

But you don't let accuracy get in the way of a good smear do you?

Duncan


Duncan M. Roads
Editor, NEXUS Magazine
PO Box 30, Mapleton Qld 4560 Australia
Tel: +61 (0)7 5442 9280;   Fax:  +61 (0)7 5442 9381
http://www.nexusmagazine.com  ICQ#62399259

"The nature of the universe is such that ends can never justify the means.
On the contrary, the means always determine the end."
(Aldous Huxley)

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[CTRL] Fwd: The myth of the liberal media

[radman]

-Caveat Lector-

Online Journal - http://www.onlinejournal.com

12-13-00: The myth of the "liberal" media

By BartCop

December 13, 2000 | What if a show like Dateline did a "hatchet job" on
George W. Bush? It wouldn't have to really be a hatchet job, but any
honest appraisal of that idiot's qualifications would prove he's a
non-thinking rich man's boy-and that's all. But what would happen if
Dateline did an unflattering portrait of Smirk?

I'll tell you what would happen:

Rush Limbaugh would spend at least three hours saying it wasn't true and
he'd offer hours of rebuttal as to why Dateline was lying.

Bill O'Reilly would spend at least an hour on his show saying it wasn't
true and offer rebuttal as to why Dateline was lying.

Sean Hannity would walk all over Alan Colmes for an hour that night,
saying it wasn't true and offer rebuttal as to why Dateline was lying.

Paula Von Zahn would spend at least an hour that night saying it wasn't
true and she'd offer rebuttal as to why Dateline was lying.

The Beltway Boys would spend at least an hour that night saying it wasn't
true and offer rebuttal as to why Dateline was lying.

Brit Hume and Tony Snow would spend at least an hour on Sunday saying it
wasn't true and offer rebuttal as to why Dateline was lying.

Juan Williams and Mara Liason would spend their entire allotted time
saying it wasn't true and offer rebuttal as to why Dateline was lying.

John McLaughlin would spend at least an hour on his syndicated show saying
it wasn't true and offer rebuttal as to why Dateline was lying.

Chris the Screamer would spend at least an hour on his show saying it
wasn't true and offer rebuttal as to why Dateline was lying.

G. Gordon Liddy would spend at least three hours on his radio show saying
it wasn't true and offer rebuttal as to why Dateline was lying.

Laura the pretend doctor would spend at least an hour on her radio show
saying it wasn't true and offer rebuttal as to why Dateline was lying.

Michael Medved would spend at least an hour on his radio show saying it
wasn't true and offer rebuttal as to why Dateline was lying.

Sam and Cokie would spend at least an hour on This Week saying it wasn't
true and offer rebuttal as to why Dateline was lying.

George (Judas) Stephanopolous and George Will would spend their entire
allotted time swearing that it wasn't true.

Bob Scheiffer would spend at least an hour on Face the Nation saying it
wasn't true and offer rebuttal as to why Dateline was lying.

Tim Russert would spend at least an hour on Meet the Press saying it
wasn't true and offer rebuttal as to why Dateline was lying.

John Hockenberry would spend at least an hour on his show saying it wasn't
true and offer rebuttal as to why Dateline was lying.

Ollie North would spend at least an hour on his radio show saying it
wasn't true and offer rebuttal as to why Dateline was lying.

Robert Novak would spend at least an hour on his cable TV show saying it
wasn't true and offer rebuttal as to why Dateline was lying.

Paul Weyrich would spend at least an hour on his cable TV show saying it
wasn't true and offer rebuttal as to why Dateline was lying.

Still with me? We're close to the end . . .

BSNBC's Brian Williams would spend at least an hour on his show saying it
wasn't true and offer rebuttal as to why Dateline was lying.

Wolf Blizter would spend at least an hour on his show saying it wasn't
true and offer rebuttal as to why Dateline was lying.

Bill Schneider and Candy Crowley would do an hour special on CCN (Clinton
Cock Network) saying it wasn't true, and offering rebuttal.

John Stossel would have a special on ABC: "Is lying OK for liberals?"

Then Howie Kurtz would spend 30 minutes on Reliable Sources asking if the
media wasn't being too hard on a developmentally-disabled child.

Barbara Olson would write a book condemning Dateline. Ann Coulter would
write a book condemning Dateline. Laura Ingraham would write a book
condemning Dateline. Peggy Noonan would write a book condemning Dateline.
Andrew Sullivan would write a book condemning Dateline. William Safire
would write a book condemning Dateline.

OK, we're going to call the above "Exhibit A."
Now, everyone on that list has done at least a dozen hit pieces on Clinton.

My question is, "Where is "Exhibit B?"

When those 38 people attack Clinton, who does the rebuttal? Nobody on that
list has EVER defended a fabricated lie against Clinton.

There is no "Exhibit B," because there are no liberal shows on television.
The closest you can get is Eleanor on McLaughlin, or Carlson/Hunt on
Capitol Gang, but there are no liberal shows on television, even though
there are DOZENS of right-wing, Bush-apologist shows whose livelyhood is
lying about liberals.

I don't think you conservatives have an answer.

Prove me wrong.

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not 

Re: [CTRL] For the record.

[Aleisha Saba]

-Caveat Lector-

'Duncan, I still believe elephants fly..I saw movie Dumbo when a
child and it left lasting impression and I also believe in Unicorns.

Think you are right about Cold War - biggest hoax of all and it does
track back to Yalta - the good guy, bad guy routine.

So forgive me Duncan - and you can call me anytime - and you can call me
Al ..

Like your magazine for I have been reading it.

What do you think happened to JFK, Jr..was he removed because he was
about to come forth as a leaderlook how Gore tried to look like sex
symbol - but when JFK Jr. walked into a room full of people - as he did
with Blair and Clinton - nobody saw anyone but him.

My favorite song is Waltzing Matilda and favorite line is You'll Never
Take Me Alive, coppers...

Good magazine,

Saba and you can call me Al...

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DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Re: [CTRL] Fw: Re: [CTRL] Jesus was a Liberal

[Mike Switzer]

-Caveat Lector-

HUZZAH!

I think progressive or radical certainly fits Jesus better than liberal..he
would have to have been far more mealy-mouthed to be consedered a liberal...

M

-Original Message-
From: Nessie [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, December 13, 2000 6:22 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Fw: Re: [CTRL] Jesus was a Liberal


-Caveat Lector-

Actually, Jesus wasn't a liberal. He was a revolutionary. That's why
they killed him. Had he been a liberal, he would have supported the
status quo and they would have left him alone. Instead, he went downtown
and incited a riot and the rest is history.

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
=CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, mis-
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
===Archi
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==
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] ---big group hug---

[nexusmagazine]

-Caveat Lector-

Maybe we could hope the same of you!
I wonder why you and your ilk mock Nexus magazine and Duncan, this IS a
conspiracy theory list and not a Rush room...seems you'd be more comfy in the
latter.

Bill.



I am sure conspiracy watchers would expect 'big brother' to have
'agents', 'assets' or 'arseholes' lurking to cause mischief on groups
like this.

It is patently clear that the smearers out there have NO interest in
discussing issues, they exist just to smear.

I am pleased to see that NEXUS is such a threat as to warrant their
attention.

After failing to whip up an imaginary fascist threat by NEXUS, they now
are trying to imply that I am so rich and powerful that I shouldn't be
posting to the list because it is 'advertising'.

I reiterate my challenge to discuss topics and issues, and you watch,
none of them will do other than personal attacks and smear.

I am sure that most list lurkers reading these threads can see for
themselves where they are at.

regards

Duncan


Duncan M. Roads
Editor, NEXUS Magazine
PO Box 30, Mapleton Qld 4560 Australia
Tel: +61 (0)7 5442 9280;   Fax:  +61 (0)7 5442 9381
http://www.nexusmagazine.com  ICQ#62399259

"The nature of the universe is such that ends can never justify the means.
On the contrary, the means always determine the end."
(Aldous Huxley)

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
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==
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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] To: Governor Bush and Vice President Gore

[Johannes Schmidt III]

-Caveat Lector-

  Either way, the wrangling will drag on for years.
Whoever wins will be regarded as a cheater; whoever
loses will be seen as a whiner. There is only
one way to end the squabbling. We propose a duel to
the death-on the open areas outside U.S.territorial
limits (or in Texas), in front of an international
team of observers and a worldwide television audience.
  Many great American statesmen, including Andrew
Jackson and Henry Clay, engaged in duels. As one of
you may know, the most famous duel in American
history was between Alexander Hamilton and Aaron Burr.
After a humiliating defeat for the Presidency
(involving a tied vote in the Electoral College
and 35 successive tied votes in the House), Burr found
revenge on the dueling field.

A capital idea. I often tell people (and I'm quite serious) that we should 
re-introduce duelling as a way of settling legal disputes. Think of the exodus of 
lawyers, the lack of phony, fraudulent or vexatious legal cases if people knew that 
they might be made to fence or shoot it out with their opponent.

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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[CTRL] Who is behind all the trouble in the Mideast?

[Guitar Virtuoso]

-Caveat Lector-

http://www.reformation.org/mideast_crisis.html

Rabbi Isaac Luria

Rabbi Isaac Luria ((1534-1572) was a faithful follower of Ignatius LIEola.
He is called the Father of the Kabbala. He had strange supernatural powers
as all well trained Jesuits possess. He had a profound influence on the
Jewish world. He was the first to suggest that the Dome of the Rock was the
site of the former Temple.

This idea set the stage for conflict with the Arabs. Remember LIEola had
visited Jerusalem and he knew a lot about the city. He knew the Arabs would
never give up their holy place to the Jews so the Temple would never be
rebuilt. This would mean constant conflict and wars. Here is a brief quote
from the Secret Oath of the Jesuits:

"You have been taught to insidiously plant the seeds of jealousy and hatred
between communities, provinces, states that were at peace, and incite them
to deeds of blood, involving them in war with each other, and to create
revolutions and civil wars in countries that were independent and
prosperous, cultivating the arts and the sciences and enjoying the blessings
of peace. To take sides with the combatants and to act secretly with your
brother Jesuit, who might be engaged on the other side, but openly opposed
to that with which you might be connected, only that the Church might be the
gainer in the end, in the conditions fixed in the treaties for peace and
that the end justifies the means."

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Re: [CTRL] Dangers of the New Age movement

[Johannes Schmidt III]

-Caveat Lector-


By the way, I wonder how the Erisians, Subgenii and Discordians fit
in?



I have my suspicions that Bob may be Jewish. Or at least pretending to be.

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Re: [CTRL] Fwd: comments?

[Nessie]

-Caveat Lector-

Decriminalization is the only solution. Nothing else will work. 

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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[CTRL] Army's controversial 'School of the Americas' to close Friday

[mirage]

-Caveat Lector-

http://www.cnn.com/2000/WORLD/americas/12/12/school.americas/index.html

Army's controversial 'School of the Americas' to close Friday

December 12, 2000
Web posted at: 12:19 p.m. EST (1719 GMT)


In this story:

Army chief says decision was 'a difficult one'

Protests have gone on for years

Defense Department to run new school


From CNN Military Affairs Correspondent Jamie McIntyre

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The Army plans closing ceremonies Friday for its
controversial "School of the Americas," nicknamed the "School of the
Assassins" by critics who allege the school provides military training for
leaders who are responsible for human rights abuses in their own countries.

An Army announcement Tuesday said simply: "The U.S. Army School of the
Americas, located at Fort Benning, Georgia, is closing its doors after 54 years
of distinguished service."

The statement made no mention of the government's previously announced
plans to reopen the school in January under a new name, "The Western
Hemisphere Institute for Security Cooperation."

Army officials hope that changing the Georgia school's name and making sure
its curriculum stresses civilian control of the military and respect for human
rights will blunt some of the criticism that has dogged the school for more than
a decade.

Opponents of the school have said the changes will only be cosmetic. They
vow to continue protests.

Critics have charged for years that some of Latin America's most notorious
human rights abusers are among the school's 65,000 alumni.

Army chief says decision was 'a difficult one'

The Army says that it will conduct a closing ceremony at the school on Friday
at 10 a.m. and that Secretary of the Army Louis Caldera will speak at the
ceremony.

Caldera, who as recently as last month was vigorously defending the school,
said Tuesday that "the decision to close USARSA (U.S. Army School of the
Americas) was a difficult one.

"Since its creation, the school has been a major contributing factor to the
success of U.S. foreign policy in the Latin American region," Caldera said.
"The school and its graduates have done so much to foster a spirit of
cooperation throughout the hemisphere, but as our region turns to face the
new challenges of the 21st century, it is time to move forward by closing one
successful chapter in the story of our cooperation and mutual interchange, and
open a new and different one."

Protests drew 1,700 arrests last month

Last month, police arrested 1,700 protesters after they marched through the
school's gates and demanded that the facility be shut down.

Those arrested included actor Martin Sheen, star of the television drama, "The
West Wing." An estimated 3,000 other demonstrators protested outside the
school's gates.

Most of those arrested were charged with trespassing, given a warning and
released, Army officials said.

The protests have been held every year since 1989. They commemorate the
November 16, 1989, killings in El Salvador of six Jesuit priests, to which some
of the school's graduates have been linked.

Military officials have dismissed critics' charges as absurd.

"I'd characterize it as false and as propaganda," Maj. Gen. John LeMoyne, the
post commander, has said.

Defense Department to run new school

The new school will be run by the Defense Department, under guiding
principles of the Organization of American States.

But Ray Bourgeois, a leading critic of the school, has said opponents won't let
up.

"We see this as cosmetic," Bourgeois, a co-founder of School of the Americas
Watch, said last month. "It's like taking a bottle of poison and writing 'penicillin'
on it."


  The Associated Press contributed to this report.



RELATED STORIES:

  Thousands protest Army's School of the Americas
  November 20, 2000
  U.S. House deals setback to Army School of the Americas - July 30,
  1999
  July 30, 1999
  Thousands protest 'School of Assassins'
  November 22, 1998
  Protesters guilty of vandalizing Army school sign
  March 4, 1998


RELATED SITES:

  School of the Americas
  School of the Americas Watch




© 2000 Cable News Network. All Rights Reserved.

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Re: [CTRL] Advertising in the name of a martyrdom.

[nexusmagazine]

-Caveat Lector-

If Duncan has a REAL conspiracy to talk about; if he has
a REAL issue to discuss; then so be it...but enough already
of this shameless advertising in the name of martyrdom.

Tsadowq


As I said before, I WAS discussing an issue raised on this list, the
issue regarding a 'new age conspiracy to kill all the Jews'.

You and others interjected with personal attacks on NEXUS and myself.

I asked why, and have repeatedly offered to discuss topics, articles or
issues with you.

You dodge all such offers, and instead resort to careful distortion and
outright smear.

NEXUS is NOT on any fascist, socialist, new age or anti-religious agenda.
 If you had bothered to read anything in the magazine you would know this.

My postings and prescence are NOT shameless advertising.  This is simply
your latest 'tactic' to discourage interest and support for magazines
like mine.

But then that is your 'job' isn't it?


When I look at your postings on this list, I see nothing but smear,
attacks and criticism of genuine researchers.

What sort of agenda are YOU on then?

Duncan


Duncan M. Roads
Editor, NEXUS Magazine
PO Box 30, Mapleton Qld 4560 Australia
Tel: +61 (0)7 5442 9280;   Fax:  +61 (0)7 5442 9381
http://www.nexusmagazine.com  ICQ#62399259

"The nature of the universe is such that ends can never justify the means.
On the contrary, the means always determine the end."
(Aldous Huxley)

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Re: [CTRL] Who is behind all the trouble in the Mideast?

[nexusmagazine]

-Caveat Lector-

http://www.reformation.org/mideast_crisis.html

Rabbi Isaac Luria

Rabbi Isaac Luria ((1534-1572) was a faithful follower of Ignatius LIEola.
He is called the Father of the Kabbala. He had strange supernatural powers
as all well trained Jesuits possess. He had a profound influence on the
Jewish world. He was the first to suggest that the Dome of the Rock was the
site of the former Temple.

This idea set the stage for conflict with the Arabs. Remember LIEola had
visited Jerusalem and he knew a lot about the city. He knew the Arabs would
never give up their holy place to the Jews so the Temple would never be
rebuilt. This would mean constant conflict and wars. Here is a brief quote
from the Secret Oath of the Jesuits:

"You have been taught to insidiously plant the seeds of jealousy and hatred
between communities, provinces, states that were at peace, and incite them
to deeds of blood, involving them in war with each other, and to create
revolutions and civil wars in countries that were independent and
prosperous, cultivating the arts and the sciences and enjoying the blessings
of peace. To take sides with the combatants and to act secretly with your
brother Jesuit, who might be engaged on the other side, but openly opposed
to that with which you might be connected, only that the Church might be the
gainer in the end, in the conditions fixed in the treaties for peace and
that the end justifies the means."


Interesting stuff David!

Duncan M. Roads
Editor, NEXUS Magazine
PO Box 30, Mapleton Qld 4560 Australia
Tel: +61 (0)7 5442 9280;   Fax:  +61 (0)7 5442 9381
http://www.nexusmagazine.com  ICQ#62399259

"The nature of the universe is such that ends can never justify the means.
On the contrary, the means always determine the end."
(Aldous Huxley)

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[CTRL] Vaccine Probable Cause of Polio Outbreak

[mirage]

-Caveat Lector-

 A vaccine with virus that combines with a person's harbored pathogens, mutates
and spreads?

=
http://www.healthmall.com/newsletter.cfm?type=articleid=1183a=


Expert Says Vaccine Probable Cause of Polio Outbreak

A type 1 wild-vaccine recombinant poliovirus spread hundreds of kilometers in
just 1 year in
China, epidemiologists have documented. Dr. Hong-Mei Liu, of the Centers for
Disease Control
and Prevention in Atlanta, and associates there and in Beijing describe their 
epidemiological
investigation in the December issue of the Journal of Virology.

RNA probe hybridization showed isolates with nucleotide sequences consistent
with wild type
virus, as well as sequences derived from the Sabin type 1 oral poliovirus
strain, the researchers say.
They compared the calculated range of divergence times with the epidemiological
record and
concluded that the recombination event was likely to have occurred between
mid-January and late
March 1991.

Isolates from March and April 1991 close in sequence to the earliest recombinant
isolate were
from two northern provinces. By June 1991, the recombinant lineages had spread
to two more
provinces. By the end of that year, recombinant viruses were circulating by
multiple chains of
transmission.

Dr. Liu and associates performed sequencing on 33 additional vaccine-wild
recombinants isolated
from 10 provinces between 1991 and 1993. The results and the other data suggest
that "the
ancestral recombinant most likely arose during the mixed infection of one
person," they say.

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[CTRL] Fwd: [corp-focus] The Real Thing: Democracy as a Contact Sport

[Kris Millegan]

The Real Thing: Democracy as a Contact Sport
By Russell Mokhiber and Robert Weissman

A couple weeks ago, we received an invitation to attend an event at the
Library of Congress.

Coca-Cola was about to make an "historic contribution" to the Library of
Congress, and the Library, and Coca-Cola, were inviting reporters to cover
the event. We accepted the invitation.

We learned from the morning papers that the "historic contribution" was a
complete set of 20,000 television commercials pushing Coca-Cola into the
American digestive system.

Remember the one where the kid hands Pittsburgh Steeler Mean Joe Greene
his bottle of Coke, and in return, Mean Joe tosses the kid his football
jersey? Or what about on a hilltop in Italy where the folks start sing
"I'd like to buy the world a Coke and keep it company"?

The event was at the Great Hall of the Thomas Jefferson Building -- named
after the Thomas Jefferson who, in 1816, wrote: "I hope we shall crush in
its birth the aristocracy of our monied corporations which dare already to
challenge our government to a trial of strength, and bid defiance to the
laws our country."

Anyway, we pull up at the appointed hour (7:15 p.m. on November 29, 2000)
at the Thomas Jefferson building, and there's a traffic jam created by
stretch limousines blocking the entrance.

In addition to lowly reporters, the 400 or so guests included ambassadors,
members of Congress, corporate chieftains and other dignitaries. Good
thing we dressed up.

The Main Hall is this absolutely stunning room, with marble staircases. A
string quartet is playing. Waiters are serving Coke in classic bottles.
The food is fabulous -- lamb chops, trout, Peking duck. We rub shoulders
with the Ambassador from Burma.

The "aristocracy of our monied corporations," as Jefferson put it, had
taken over the place, and Coca-Cola wanted to make sure that everybody
knew it.

After all, Coke could have just donated the ads to the Library and left it
at that. But this wasn't about Coke's largesse. It was about public
relations -- whether the public would view the company as a racist company
(Coke had just agreed to pay $192.5 million to settle allegations that it
routinely discriminated against black employees in pay, promotions and
performance evaluations) or a junk food pusher (consuming large quantities
of sugared Coca-Cola has led to ours being one of the most overweight
generations in history) -- or instead, a generous contributor to the
Library of Congress.

James Billington, the Librarian of Congress, was called on to deliver good
things to Coke, and he did. He turned over the keys of the Main Hall to
Coke, and Coke decked the place out with its logo, stitched in red beside
the logo of the Library of Congress. Television sets were placed
throughout the hall, the better for the Ambassadors and members of the
Democratic Leadership Council to check out the commercials.

Billington was selling the soul of the library to one of the world's most
powerful corporations. In addition to the ads, Coke was establishing a
fellowship at the Library for the study of "culture and communication" --
one fellow will receive $20,000 a year for the next five years.

Gary Ruskin, director of Commercial Alert, was outside the event,
protesting. "It is not the proper role of the taxpayer-financed Library of
Congress to help promote junk food like Coca-Cola to a nation that is
suffering skyrocketing levels of obesity," Ruskin said. "It is crass
commercialism for James Billington to degrade Jefferson's library and
founding ideals into a huckster's backdrop."

But without shame, Billington introduced Doug Daft, the president of
Coca-Cola, who said that "Coca-Cola has become an integral part of
people's lives by helping to tell these stories." Nothing about profits.
Nothing about overweight kids. Nothing about racism.

After Daft spoke, the room went dark, and the ads ran on the television
screens. Nostalgia swept the room. When the ads were finished, the lights
went back on and the crowd cheered.

About 80 high school students, dressed in Coca-Cola red sweaters, filled
the marble staircases and sang -- "I want to buy the world a Coke." Again,
the crowd cheered.  Doug Daft, standing downstairs, came back to the
microphone to continue his statement. We were upstairs at this point, and
we looked down at him and asked, in a loud voice -- "Why are you using a
public library to promote a junk food product?"

The room went quiet. Library of Congress police charged up the marble
staircase. Doug Daft put his hand to his ear and shouted back to us: "What
did you say?"

In a louder voice, we shouted back: "Why are you using a public
institution to promote a junk food product?"

The next thing we know, we are on the ground. The Library of Congress
police had tackled us. Again, the crowd cheered -- not for our question,
but for the tackle.

We were dragged downstairs, past the Ambassador from Burma, and hauled
outside, where police officers from the 

Re: [CTRL] Jesus was a Liberal

[Nessie]

-Caveat Lector-

He declared that since they were living under the protection of the
Roman power, they should render to that power the support it claimed, so
long as this did not conflict with a higher duty. But while peaceably
subject to the laws of the land, they should at all times give their
first allegiance to God.


"under the protection"!?!  Hardly. They were the victims of a avaricious
and cruel imperialist invader and they puppet government.



We are to recognize human government as an ordinance of divine
appointment, and teach obedience to it as a sacred duty, within its
legitimate sphere. 

"We"!?!  Speak for yourself.  

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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
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[CTRL] RadTimes -- Update # 2

[radman]

-Caveat Lector-

Hi again folks,

Well, it doesn't seem I was able to convince enough of you that I'm doing
monetarily worthwhile projects, (at least not enough to be able to continue
without interruption). I appreciate those that sent contributions (and
those that offered), as well as some very appreciative comments. (see
below). As promised, I will stay with this until the end of the
presidential selection process (although apparently to end soon, perhaps
even today), but then I will be financially forced to take a break.

I do have a serious inquiry on doing a newsletter for an advocacy
organization, and we are currently in negotiations, but that by itself will
not be enough to continue without pause. I want to again encourage those of
you in an organizational capacity, to consider hiring me to produce
newsletters or to funnel you stories of interest in whatever field you're
in. I'm a serious 'infomaniac' who knows how to get around the 'net, and I
will do a sample 'clipping compilation' for any serious inquiries.

I have been sending you a couple new publications, TurbulentTimes and Hard
Green Herald, to give you an idea of what some solid financial underpinning
would allow me to do. These also are now on hold. I also re-list my project
list below, just to reinforce what I'd like to accomplish.

I will restart this whole process in the middle of January, in time for the
coronation of our next emperor, (and the expected protests of same). Of
course, any large donation(s) would change this whole picture.

"We're really *are* living in rad times!"

Best to all,

the radman
=
---
Donations received: $95.00 (from 4 recipients)
Monthly pledges offered (contingent on uninterrupted delivery): 3
---
**How to assist RadTimes:
An account is available at www.paypal.com which enables direct donations.
If you are a current PayPal user, use this email address:
[EMAIL PROTECTED], to contribute. If you are not a current user, use this
link: https://secure.paypal.com/refer/pal=resist%40best.com to sign up
and contribute. The only information passed on to me via this process is
your email address and the amount you transfer.
---
Comments received (selected/edited) :

--As someone with a little news hub of my own who is greatly appreciative
of what you send out [I forward a lot of it], I do understand your
problem!  ..our lists are akin in so many ways... and I know first-hand the
work that goes  into keeping the real info running. ..I'd love to see Rad
Times archived on a web site,  as I like to give a URL for everything I
send out. This is just to tell you you have my  full support. With my
appreciation for what you do,...

--As someone who has been at this game for several years (I started during
the UPS strike), I wish you success in raising the resources. I do
periodically send RadTimes to my lists with whatever subscription
information you provide. Let me know how you make out in your appeal. Good
luck. In solidarity,..

--..you're a personal deity. many thanks for what you do...your work is
great... i'm hoping you understand how important and valuable i believe you
and your vision and your hard, hard work are --- but also how the reverse
of the good part of desktop decentralization is eating its young and
destroying several interlocking/interdancing movements. it's time for an
Other strategy, i feel, much loved Radman...less grey pixelpaint, more in
person and offline activism. thanks for your work. thanks for your
integrity and courage,...

--Thanks again for all the great news items. Hope you can figure out how to
keep the RadTimes going. Several people have me on their email lists, but
you have the best eye for real news.

--..am glad you're looking to put your muckraking clipping service on a
stable financial footing. I've saved much of what you've sent lately...
have been impressed by your passion.  And of course, I've enjoyed/taken
inspiration from what I've managed to read. So--this is just to say I'm
rooting for this effort to take off, even if I can't help it fly much.

--Keep up the good work.Have you thought about trying to get grant money to
fund your clipping service?
Just a thought...  Anyway, stay strong and do what you have to do.

--Keep on posting. You're digging up things out over the horizon, or
completely unnoticed by much of
the world. Excellent material.

--Just wanted to say hello and how impressed I am by the good stuff you put
together in your email bursts.

--Gotten much response to your appeal? Got enough support to keep it going
indefinitely? If there's enough other support to keep your project viable,
i'm willing to pledge $xx/month for a year (2001) to support your 

Re: [CTRL] For those who believe the Constitution is a living document

[Nessie]

-Caveat Lector-

The parasitic segment of the population will always be loyal to the
government, reinforcing its power.

Absolutely true. The rich love government. Its troops keep us from
lynching them and taking back the fruits of our labor which they have
stolen from us under color of law.

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
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Re: [CTRL] Who is behind all the trouble in the Mideast?

[Nessie]

-Caveat Lector-

  Here is a brief quote
  from the Secret Oath of the Jesuits:
  
  "You have been taught to insidiously plant the seeds of jealousy and
hatred
  between communities, provinces, states that were at peace, and incite
them
  to deeds of blood, involving them in war with each other, and to
create
  revolutions and civil wars in countries that were independent and
  prosperous, cultivating the arts and the sciences and enjoying the
blessings
  of peace. To take sides with the combatants and to act secretly with
your
  brother Jesuit, who might be engaged on the other side, but openly
opposed
  to that with which you might be connected, only that the Church might
be the
  gainer in the end, in the conditions fixed in the treaties for peace
and
  that the end justifies the means."


Why should we believe that this is a valid quote?

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
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Re: [CTRL] Dangers of the New Age movement

[Mark McHugh]

-Caveat Lector-

Johannes Schmidt III wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

 
 By the way, I wonder how the Erisians, Subgenii and Discordians fit
 in?
 
 

 I have my suspicions that Bob may be Jewish. Or at least pretending to be.



Perhaps Bob is doing that to scare away more racists.

IMO, he looks like an acid-jangled WASP to me.

--
´´
Mark McHugh

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] Dangers of the New Age movement

[Johannes Schmidt III]

-Caveat Lector-

On Wed, 13 Dec 2000 19:52:29 -0600 Mark McHugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
-Caveat Lector-

Johannes Schmidt III wrote:

 -Caveat Lector-

 
 By the way, I wonder how the Erisians, Subgenii and Discordians fit
 in?
 
 

 I have my suspicions that Bob may be Jewish. Or at least pretending to be.



Perhaps Bob is doing that to scare away more racists.

IMO, he looks like an acid-jangled WASP to me.


People who have met him say he looks like James Stewart, but strangely 'plastic'. (ref 
'The Third Fist').

Of course other cultures have reported other Bobs, such as Nasrudin (the Bedouin 
'Bob'), Rasputin (the Russian 'Bob') and Johnny Cochran (the Negro 'Bob') and so 
forth. Of course any of these may have been avatars of the Anti-Bob.

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sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
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That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
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[CTRL] Canada showdown on firearms

[mirage]

-Caveat Lector-

   And I say, Good For Them!~ M

  "... a police right to search gun owners' homes without a
warrant.."
 -

  http://www.canoe.ca/CalgaryNews/cs.cs-12-13-0014.html

  Wednesday, December 13, 2000

  GUN SHOWDOWN

  Pro-gun group dares the government to jail them

  By LYLE HARVEY, CALGARY SUN
  Thousands of Alberta gun owners will publicly dare the government
to toss
  them in jail as part of a protest against federal firearms
legislation.

  More than 11,000 provincial members of the Law-abiding Unregistered
  Firearms Association (LUFA), a national pro-gun group, will willfully
  ignore a Jan. 1 deadline for obtaining a firearms licence under
the law
  commonly known as Bill C-68.

  "We recognize that with the right to bear firearms comes a serious
  responsibility, and safety is the foremost concern of any gun
owner," said
  Ed Hudson, president of the 20,000-member LUFA, based in Alberta.

  "As long as owners are using guns responsibly, they'll accept reasonable
  control, but Bill C-68 goes far beyond reasonable control."

  Owners must obtain a possession licence by Jan. 1, 2001, or when their
  current firearms acquisition certificate expires, and it will be
needed to
  buy ammunition.

  Individual guns must be registered by Jan. 1, 2003.

  Projections of national non-compliance range from 25%-50% of owners,
  estimated at 2.2 to 8 million people.

  The penalty for ignoring the law ranges from gun confiscation to
five years
  in prison.

  Hudson said while Jan. 1, 2001, will likely arrive without
fanfare, New
  Year's Day 2003 will see every LUFA member take to the streets to 
publicly
  protest a police right to search gun owners' homes without a
warrant.

  "On that date, we'll be in the streets saying, 'We own unregistered
  firearms -- arrest us or scrap Bill C-68,' " Hudson said, adding the
  demonstration will be peaceful.

  Although police are required to enforce the law, they will not
wage a
  full-scale invasion of gun owners' homes to check for compliance,
said one
  of Alberta's top-ranking Mounties.

  Police still must have reasonable and probable grounds to conduct
a search
  in order for testimony to stand up in court, said RCMP Supt.
Dennis Massey.

  REACH HARVEY AT [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  =

  http://www.bowesnet.com/dht/Z11_Cd12millions.html

  Millions of Canadian firearms owners 'refusing to
  participate' in new law

  The Canadian Press

  As many as half of Canada's gun owners could be in violation of
federal law on Jan. 1, the deadline for
  obtaining firearms licences.
  So far, 1.7 million people have enrolled with the federal
government's gun registry, the Toronto Globe and
  Mail reported from Edmonton.
  The exact number of Canadians possessing firearms is unknown, but
estimates range from fewer than 3.3
  million to as many as nine million.
  In any case, it appears that far more people own guns than are
participating in the registry under the
  controversial legislation, still often referred to by its
legislative name, Bill C-68.
  ''They've got a heck of a mess on their hands,'' Jim Hunter,
president of the National Firearms Association,
  told the newspaper. ''I think it proves that there's literally
millions of Canadians who are just refusing to
  participate in what they see as a bogus law.''
  As of Jan. 1, gun owners without licences cannot buy ammunition.
Penalties for someone found possessing a
  firearm without the proper paperwork range from temporary seizure
of the weapon to five years in prison.
  The application of the law promises to be uneven. Police forces
across the country are responsible for
  enforcing it, but are deeply divided in their support.
  Provincial Crown attorneys are charged with prosecuting alleged
offenders, but Alberta and some other
  provinces want federal Crowns to handle prosecution.
  A group of provincial and territorial governments, led by Alberta
and supported by gun organizations,
  challenged the law all the way to the Supreme Court, but failed in
June when that court ruled the legislation
  constitutional.
  The licensing and registration program has cost $327 

Re: [CTRL] Fw: Re: [CTRL] Jesus was a Liberal

[Guitar Virtuoso]

-Caveat Lector-

- Original Message -
From: "Nessie" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 14, 2000 11:21 AM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] Fw: Re: [CTRL] Jesus was a Liberal


-Caveat Lector-

Actually, Jesus wasn't a liberal. He was a revolutionary. That's why
they killed him. Had he been a liberal, he would have supported the
status quo and they would have left him alone. Instead, he went downtown
and incited a riot and the rest is history.


Actually, Jesus  was no such thing as a "revolutionary" in any modern sense
of the term.

He has been presented as such by certain secular Jews, Jesuit priests
preaching Marxist "Liberation Theology" for their own political ends, and
originally by certain of the Pharisees, Sadducees, Herodians and et al who
set him up on the same false charge via a kangaroo court and had him killed.

His ideas and acts may have been "revolutionary," but fundamentally, he
derived his philosophy for life and living from the "Torah," or, the Old
Testament.

Indeed, Jesus himself essentially accused many of the religious politicos of
his day as being revolutionaries and lawless, departing and rebelling from
the LAW of God by their own vacuous man-made TRADITIONS.

Hence, Jesus constantly condemns these lawless men, many whom were leaders
of Israel, throughout his mission, and he does so by passages and dictums as
per the following:

"Then the Pharisees and scribes asked him, Why walk not thy disciples
according to the TRADITION OF THE ELDERS, but eat bread with unwashen hands?
He answered and said unto them, Well hath Esaias prophesied of YOU
HYPOCRITES, as it is written, This people honoureth me with their lips, but
their heart is far from me.   Howbeit in vain do they worship me, TEACHING
FOR DOCTRINES THE COMMANDMENTS OF MEN.   For LAYING ASIDE THE COMMANDMENT OF
GOD, YE HOLD THE TRADITION OF MEN, as the washing of pots and cups: and MANY
OTHER SUCH LIKE THINGS YE DO.  And he said unto them, Full well YE REJECT
THE COMMANDMENT OF GOD, THAT YE MAY KEEP YOUR OWN TRADITION."  Mark 7:5-9

Clearly, Jesus emphasises the fact that the religio-politicos are the REAL
revolutionaries here.   They are lawless men, like many of their modern
counterparts, oft drunk by their own megalomania and craving power, who
invent a plethora of "laws" and "traditions" to proliferate and protect
their own self-interest and power.

In addition, at the core of Jesus' words of course, is the thought that such
men commit their lawless acts and wilful treason, not only against their
fellow men, but ultimately because they a rebels and escapees from God's
love and Lawful Order.

The tone of his words, "FULL WELL ye reject the commandment of God" gives
the sense that such men are in fact DESPISERS of God.


A HREF=ttp://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
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===CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing
propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
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Re: [CTRL] ---big group hug---

[Ynr Chyldz Wyld]

-Caveat Lector-

From: "nexusmagazine" [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 I am sure conspiracy watchers would expect 'big brother' to have
 'agents', 'assets' or 'arseholes' lurking to cause mischief on groups
 like this.

And if you stick around here long enough, you'll get used to the occasional outbreak 
as the nest of disrupters
crawl out from under their rocks like the cockroaches they are...


June

A HREF="http://www.ctrl.org/"www.ctrl.org/A
DECLARATION  DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion  informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are
sordid matters and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, mis-
directions and outright frauds—is used politically by different groups with
major and minor effects spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought.
That being said, CTRLgives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and
always suggests to readers; be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no
credence to Holocaust denial and nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html
 A HREF="http://peach.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html"Archives of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]/A

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To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Om