Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[nessie]

[EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes:
>
>The fact is, evolution is a fairytale- originally derived from pagan

>religious mythology. As my post indicated, Evolutionary scientists

>themselves say that their is NO EMPIRICAL evidence for such - its pure
>myth!

This is religious doctrine, and as such, off topic.

Also, you're repeating yourself, pretty much word for word. It was Hitler,
in Mein  Kamph, who said that a big enough lie, repeated enough times,
will be believed. Is that where you learned the technique? You must have
learned it somewhere. I have great difficulty believing you thought it up
on your own. I have great difficulty believing you ever thought up
anything on your own. You don't seem much like that kind of guy.

And now some friendly advice from one who knows better: Believable or not,
repitition is boring. You're going to lose your audience if you don't say
something new now and then.

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
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Om

Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[Nurev Ind Research]

David Sutherland wrote:
>
> Actually J2 - my post was to Gavin -

But it was on list no?

that is, unless like the superstition
> of evolution, you're also into cross-dressing?

I don't understand what this means, but i'm sure it's clever.

>
> The fact is, evolution is a fairytale

Evolution is an observable fact. There may be parts of Darwin's hypotheses
which didn't pan out, but he was the first to start the ball rolling and can't
be expected to have understood everything.

- originally derived from pagan
> religious mythology. As my post indicated, Evolutionary scientists
> themselves say that their is NO EMPIRICAL evidence for such - its pure myth!
> In years to come, given a few more honest scientists, and the freedom to
> think, and work according to one's conscience, rather than the messianic
> States, or Evolutionary agenda-driven "funds" -  Evolution will go the way
> of the flat earther's - though. like flat earther's, there will always
> remain Evolutionary Zealots who cling for dear life, to a mistaken life raft
> of  fables and fairytales, called "Origin" Titanic.
>

Gawrsh... that's bootiful. Forget NO EMPIRICAL evidence for such, would you say
that there is ANY evidence for such? And if not, what in your opinion does make
living things change?

Enquiring minds want to know,

Joshua2

> - Original Message -
> From: "Nurev Ind Research" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2000 11:54 PM
> Subject: Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!
>
> > David Sutherland wrote:
> > >
> > > Say GAVIN: Good stuff there!!!
> > >
> > > You haven't still got that Johnson article you speak of that you could
> > > repost? - or email me direct - if you wish.
> > >
> > > "... more complex than a stealth fighter forming from some primeval soup
> > > billions of years ago was "about as likely as assembling a Boeing 747 by
> > > sending a whirling tornado into a junkyard."
> > >
> > > I'm still ROTFL!!! x again!!!
> > >
> >
> > Don't laugh too hard genius. The above quote is a silly simplification
> > designed to appeal to shallow superstitionists. You are agreeing that
> > complexity can not occur in a non magical universe.
> >
> > How stupid do you have to be?
> >
> > This is an observable phenomenon in every day normal life. This is how
> > your body grows. This is how a baby is built from two cells.
> >
> > Pathetic!
> >
> > Joshua2

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
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==
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are sordid
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and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[David Sutherland]

Actually J2 - my post was to Gavin - that is, unless like the superstition
of evolution, you're also into cross-dressing?

The fact is, evolution is a fairytale- originally derived from pagan
religious mythology. As my post indicated, Evolutionary scientists
themselves say that their is NO EMPIRICAL evidence for such - its pure myth!

In years to come, given a few more honest scientists, and the freedom to
think, and work according to one's conscience, rather than the messianic
States, or Evolutionary agenda-driven "funds" -  Evolution will go the way
of the flat earther's - though. like flat earther's, there will always
remain Evolutionary Zealots who cling for dear life, to a mistaken life raft
of  fables and fairytales, called "Origin" Titanic.



- Original Message -
From: "Nurev Ind Research" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, April 29, 2000 11:54 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!


> David Sutherland wrote:
> >
> > Say GAVIN: Good stuff there!!!
> >
> > You haven't still got that Johnson article you speak of that you could
> > repost? - or email me direct - if you wish.
> >
> > "... more complex than a stealth fighter forming from some primeval soup
> > billions of years ago was "about as likely as assembling a Boeing 747 by
> > sending a whirling tornado into a junkyard."
> >
> > I'm still ROTFL!!! x again!!!
> >
>
> Don't laugh too hard genius. The above quote is a silly simplification
> designed to appeal to shallow superstitionists. You are agreeing that
> complexity can not occur in a non magical universe.
>
> How stupid do you have to be?
>
> This is an observable phenomenon in every day normal life. This is how
> your body grows. This is how a baby is built from two cells.
>
> Pathetic!
>
> Joshua2
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing
propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please!  These are
sordid
> matters
> and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
> frauds-is used politically by different groups with major and minor
effects
> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
> nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Available at:
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> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
>  http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl
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>
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>
> Om
>

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==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are sordid
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and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
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spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[Nurev Ind Research]

David Sutherland wrote:
>
> Say GAVIN: Good stuff there!!!
>
> You haven't still got that Johnson article you speak of that you could
> repost? - or email me direct - if you wish.
>
> "... more complex than a stealth fighter forming from some primeval soup
> billions of years ago was "about as likely as assembling a Boeing 747 by
> sending a whirling tornado into a junkyard."
>
> I'm still ROTFL!!! x again!!!
>

Don't laugh too hard genius. The above quote is a silly simplification
designed to appeal to shallow superstitionists. You are agreeing that
complexity can not occur in a non magical universe.

How stupid do you have to be?

This is an observable phenomenon in every day normal life. This is how
your body grows. This is how a baby is built from two cells.

Pathetic!

Joshua2

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are sordid
matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
 http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl

To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
SIGNOFF CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Om

Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[David Sutherland]

Say GAVIN: Good stuff there!!!

You haven't still got that Johnson article you speak of that you could
repost? - or email me direct - if you wish.

"... more complex than a stealth fighter forming from some primeval soup
billions of years ago was "about as likely as assembling a Boeing 747 by
sending a whirling tornado into a junkyard."

I'm still ROTFL!!! x again!!!


- Original Message -
From: "Gavin Phillips" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 2:25 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!


> In a message dated 4/19/00 9:32:30 PM Central Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> << Gavin Phillips wrote:
>  >
>  > Many excellent quotations. Darwinian evolution has been repeatedly
> discredited by several good books documenting the litany of missing chains
> (not links).
>  >
>  > It is the holy grail of mainstream science to think that they are able
to
> explain the genesis of humankind. Evolution doesn't come close, but they
will
> desperately cling to it untill they can conjure up another theory which
> allows them to explain everything scientifically.
>  >
>  > Darwiniian macro-evolution is a religion. It has never been observed or
> repeated in a laboratory. Total nonsense. Gavin.
>  ===
>
>
>  This is the dumbest thing I've ever seen you write.
>  I won't even bother to respond to such an absurdity,
>  because to do so might lead some half baked idiot to
>  think that there are two sides to this argument, when
>  there is no argument at all.
>
>  Whatever happened to your mind?
>
>  Joshua2
>   >>
>
>
> Poor Joshua, have you already forgotten our little set-to a few months ago
> about disarming Americans, and trailed into a debate about Darwinian
> evolution. You are as ignorant now as you were then. There are two sides
to
> this argument. One side is losing very badly. The Darwinian theory of
> macro-evolution is down and out-period.
>
>  Phillip Johnson, author of many books on this subject replied to my email
> informing me that he has won every debate that he has had so far, many of
> them with University professors. Guess how he wins every time? Because
> Darwinian macro-evolution is complete and utter, unadulterated 100%
BULLSHIT.
>
> Below is a partial reminder of our little tête-à-tête a few months ago.
>
>
> Gavin;
>  I do not practice any type of religion. I do not beleive in the bible
> chapter and verse, the earth was made in 6 days etc. I know through
reading
> several books on evolution that it is complete nonsense with only a few
bones
> as "proof" that it happened.
>
> >Joshua;
> > This is entirely wrong. This is the pathetic defense of
supernaturalists.
> > Evolution is is a daily observable process. Also, you need to get
yourself
> > updated on the " Bones " issue. There are MANY almost complete fossil
> > records to demonstrate the evolutionary process. I suggest you read "
The
> Beak
> > of the Finch " for a clear and recent demonstration of evolution at
work.
> >
> >
> >Gavin;
> >
> >You are completely wrong and really should do far more research into the
> glaring loopholes in your hypothesis before making an ass of yourself.
> >
> >There are obviously 100's of bones and skeletons of animals from millions
of
> >years ago. What evolutionists do not have, and they admit this, is the
1000's
> >of transitional bones when one species changes into another species. As
> >Phillip Johnson says in the article I have posted;
> >
> >"The most important is the fossil problem, because this is a direct
record
> of >the history of life on earth. If Darwinism were true, you would expect
the
> >fossil evidence to contain many examples of Darwinian evolution. You
would
> >expect to see fossils that really couldn't be understood except as
> >transitions between one kind of organism and another... "
> >
> >"In reality, the fossil record is something that Darwinists have had to
> >explain away, because what it shows is the sudden appearance of organisms
> >that exhibit no trace of step-by-step development from earlier
formsIn
> >short, if evolution is the gradual, step-by-step transformation of one
kind
> >of thing into another, the outstanding feature of the fossil record is
the
> >absence of evidence for evolution."
> >
> >
> >To try and get around this problem some evolutionists have proposed other
> >theories which are just as ridiculous as gradualistic evolution. Richard
> >Go

Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[David Sutherland]

Me 3 (ggg)


- Original Message -
From: "Nurev Ind Research" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, April 24, 2000 12:49 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!


> Gavin Phillips wrote:
> >
> > In a message dated 4/19/00 9:32:30 PM Central Daylight Time,
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> >
> > << Gavin Phillips wrote:
> >  >
> >  > Many excellent quotations. Darwinian evolution has been repeatedly
> > discredited by several good books documenting the litany of missing
chains
> > (not links).
> >  >
> >  > It is the holy grail of mainstream science to think that they are
able to
> > explain the genesis of humankind. Evolution doesn't come close, but they
will
> > desperately cling to it untill they can conjure up another theory which
> > allows them to explain everything scientifically.
> >  >
> >  > Darwiniian macro-evolution is a religion. It has never been observed
or
> > repeated in a laboratory. Total nonsense. Gavin.
> >  ===
> >
> >  This is the dumbest thing I've ever seen you write.
> >  I won't even bother to respond to such an absurdity,
> >  because to do so might lead some half baked idiot to
> >  think that there are two sides to this argument, when
> >  there is no argument at all.
> >
> >  Whatever happened to your mind?
> >
> >  Joshua2
> >   >>
> >
> > Poor Joshua, have you already forgotten our little set-to a few months
ago
> > about disarming Americans, and trailed into a debate about Darwinian
> > evolution. You are as ignorant now as you were then. There are two sides
to
> > this argument. One side is losing very badly. The Darwinian theory of
> > macro-evolution is down and out-period.
> >
> >  Phillip Johnson, author of many books on this subject replied to my
email
> > informing me that he has won every debate that he has had so far, many
of
> > them with University professors. Guess how he wins every time? Because
> > Darwinian macro-evolution is complete and utter, unadulterated 100%
BULLSHIT.
> >
> > Below is a partial reminder of our little tête-à-tête a few months ago.
> >
> > Gavin;
> >  I do not practice any type of religion. I do not beleive in the bible
> > chapter and verse, the earth was made in 6 days etc. I know through
reading
> > several books on evolution that it is complete nonsense with only a few
bones
> > as "proof" that it happened.
> >
> > >Joshua;
> > > This is entirely wrong. This is the pathetic defense of
supernaturalists.
> > > Evolution is is a daily observable process. Also, you need to get
yourself
> > > updated on the " Bones " issue. There are MANY almost complete fossil
> > > records to demonstrate the evolutionary process. I suggest you read "
The
> > Beak
> > > of the Finch " for a clear and recent demonstration of evolution at
work.
> > >
> > >
> > >Gavin;
> > >
> > >You are completely wrong and really should do far more research into
the
> > glaring loopholes in your hypothesis before making an ass of yourself.
> > >
> > >There are obviously 100's of bones and skeletons of animals from
millions of
> > >years ago. What evolutionists do not have, and they admit this, is the
1000's
> > >of transitional bones when one species changes into another species. As
> > >Phillip Johnson says in the article I have posted;
> > >
> > >"The most important is the fossil problem, because this is a direct
record
> > of >the history of life on earth. If Darwinism were true, you would
expect the
> > >fossil evidence to contain many examples of Darwinian evolution. You
would
> > >expect to see fossils that really couldn't be understood except as
> > >transitions between one kind of organism and another... "
>
> And this is exactly what they they have. Just last week was published a
> rediscovery of bones of a transition animal - fish to land walker, which
> was in some museum's drawer.
>
> The problem is not that there aren't any transitional species, the problem
> is studying and choosing from what has already been gathered.
>
> J2
>
> > >"In reality, the fossil record is something that Darwinists have had to
> > >explain away, because what it shows is the sudden appearance of
organisms
> > >that exhibit no trace of step-by-step development from earlier
formsIn
> > >short, if evolution is t

Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[Nurev Ind Research]

Gavin Phillips wrote:
>
> In a message dated 4/19/00 9:32:30 PM Central Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> << Gavin Phillips wrote:
>  >
>  > Many excellent quotations. Darwinian evolution has been repeatedly
> discredited by several good books documenting the litany of missing chains
> (not links).
>  >
>  > It is the holy grail of mainstream science to think that they are able to
> explain the genesis of humankind. Evolution doesn't come close, but they will
> desperately cling to it untill they can conjure up another theory which
> allows them to explain everything scientifically.
>  >
>  > Darwiniian macro-evolution is a religion. It has never been observed or
> repeated in a laboratory. Total nonsense. Gavin.
>  ===
>
>  This is the dumbest thing I've ever seen you write.
>  I won't even bother to respond to such an absurdity,
>  because to do so might lead some half baked idiot to
>  think that there are two sides to this argument, when
>  there is no argument at all.
>
>  Whatever happened to your mind?
>
>  Joshua2
>   >>
>
> Poor Joshua, have you already forgotten our little set-to a few months ago
> about disarming Americans, and trailed into a debate about Darwinian
> evolution. You are as ignorant now as you were then. There are two sides to
> this argument. One side is losing very badly. The Darwinian theory of
> macro-evolution is down and out-period.
>
>  Phillip Johnson, author of many books on this subject replied to my email
> informing me that he has won every debate that he has had so far, many of
> them with University professors. Guess how he wins every time? Because
> Darwinian macro-evolution is complete and utter, unadulterated 100% BULLSHIT.
>
> Below is a partial reminder of our little tête-à-tête a few months ago.
>
> Gavin;
>  I do not practice any type of religion. I do not beleive in the bible
> chapter and verse, the earth was made in 6 days etc. I know through reading
> several books on evolution that it is complete nonsense with only a few bones
> as "proof" that it happened.
>
> >Joshua;
> > This is entirely wrong. This is the pathetic defense of  supernaturalists.
> > Evolution is is a daily observable process. Also, you need to get yourself
> > updated on the " Bones " issue. There are MANY almost complete fossil
> > records to demonstrate the evolutionary process. I suggest you read " The
> Beak
> > of the Finch " for a clear and recent demonstration of evolution at work.
> >
> >
> >Gavin;
> >
> >You are completely wrong and really should do far more research into the
> glaring loopholes in your hypothesis before making an ass of yourself.
> >
> >There are obviously 100's of bones and skeletons of animals from millions of
> >years ago. What evolutionists do not have, and they admit this, is the 1000's
> >of transitional bones when one species changes into another species. As
> >Phillip Johnson says in the article I have posted;
> >
> >"The most important is the fossil problem, because this is a direct record
> of >the history of life on earth. If Darwinism were true, you would expect the
> >fossil evidence to contain many examples of Darwinian evolution. You would
> >expect to see fossils that really couldn't be understood except as
> >transitions between one kind of organism and another... "

And this is exactly what they they have. Just last week was published a
rediscovery of bones of a transition animal - fish to land walker, which
was in some museum's drawer.

The problem is not that there aren't any transitional species, the problem
is studying and choosing from what has already been gathered.

J2

> >"In reality, the fossil record is something that Darwinists have had to
> >explain away, because what it shows is the sudden appearance of organisms
> >that exhibit no trace of step-by-step development from earlier formsIn
> >short, if evolution is the gradual, step-by-step transformation of one kind
> >of thing into another, the outstanding feature of the fossil record is the
> >absence of evidence for evolution."
> >
> >
> >To try and get around this problem some evolutionists have proposed other
> >theories which are just as ridiculous as gradualistic evolution. Richard
> >Goldsmidt proposed the theory of "hopeful monsters" where one day a reptile
> >would lay an egg and out popped a bird. Trouble is he would need another
> >totally improbable event, another hopefull monster being hatched at the
> same >time in the same area in order for them to breed. The other problem is
> that
> >there should be thousands of hopeless monsters littering the fossil record.
> >There are none.
> >
> >Harvard University's Stephen Jay Gould proposed punctuated equilibrium.
> Gould >postulated that perhaps species remain in stasis (the same) for
> millions of
> >years. Then only a few isolated breeding groups change into different
> >species. As Milton says;;
> >
> >"The difficulty with punctuated equilibrium is that it is wholly speculative
> >an

Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[Franklin Wayne Poley]

J2, released from the penalty box after his 5 minute misconduct for
badmouthing the referee crosses the blue line...he shoots...the great
goalie (and part-time LEZ) FWP makes a fantastic save!!!
   Tell us about the ratio of deleterious to adaptive mutations of the
countless numbers induced in genetics labs, J2.
FWP.

On Sat, 22 Apr 2000, Gavin Phillips wrote:

> In a message dated 4/19/00 9:32:30 PM Central Daylight Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> << Gavin Phillips wrote:
>  >
>  > Many excellent quotations. Darwinian evolution has been repeatedly
> discredited by several good books documenting the litany of missing chains
> (not links).
>  >
>  > It is the holy grail of mainstream science to think that they are able to
> explain the genesis of humankind. Evolution doesn't come close, but they will
> desperately cling to it untill they can conjure up another theory which
> allows them to explain everything scientifically.
>  >
>  > Darwiniian macro-evolution is a religion. It has never been observed or
> repeated in a laboratory. Total nonsense. Gavin.
>  ===
>
>
>  This is the dumbest thing I've ever seen you write.
>  I won't even bother to respond to such an absurdity,
>  because to do so might lead some half baked idiot to
>  think that there are two sides to this argument, when
>  there is no argument at all.
>
>  Whatever happened to your mind?
>
>  Joshua2
>   >>
>
>
> Poor Joshua, have you already forgotten our little set-to a few months ago
> about disarming Americans, and trailed into a debate about Darwinian
> evolution. You are as ignorant now as you were then. There are two sides to
> this argument. One side is losing very badly. The Darwinian theory of
> macro-evolution is down and out-period.
>
>  Phillip Johnson, author of many books on this subject replied to my email
> informing me that he has won every debate that he has had so far, many of
> them with University professors. Guess how he wins every time? Because
> Darwinian macro-evolution is complete and utter, unadulterated 100% BULLSHIT.
>
> Below is a partial reminder of our little tête-à-tête a few months ago.
>
>
> Gavin;
>  I do not practice any type of religion. I do not beleive in the bible
> chapter and verse, the earth was made in 6 days etc. I know through reading
> several books on evolution that it is complete nonsense with only a few bones
> as "proof" that it happened.
>
> >Joshua;
> > This is entirely wrong. This is the pathetic defense of  supernaturalists.
> > Evolution is is a daily observable process. Also, you need to get yourself
> > updated on the " Bones " issue. There are MANY almost complete fossil
> > records to demonstrate the evolutionary process. I suggest you read " The
> Beak
> > of the Finch " for a clear and recent demonstration of evolution at work.
> >
> >
> >Gavin;
> >
> >You are completely wrong and really should do far more research into the
> glaring loopholes in your hypothesis before making an ass of yourself.
> >
> >There are obviously 100's of bones and skeletons of animals from millions of
> >years ago. What evolutionists do not have, and they admit this, is the 1000's
> >of transitional bones when one species changes into another species. As
> >Phillip Johnson says in the article I have posted;
> >
> >"The most important is the fossil problem, because this is a direct record
> of >the history of life on earth. If Darwinism were true, you would expect the
> >fossil evidence to contain many examples of Darwinian evolution. You would
> >expect to see fossils that really couldn't be understood except as
> >transitions between one kind of organism and another... "
> >
> >"In reality, the fossil record is something that Darwinists have had to
> >explain away, because what it shows is the sudden appearance of organisms
> >that exhibit no trace of step-by-step development from earlier formsIn
> >short, if evolution is the gradual, step-by-step transformation of one kind
> >of thing into another, the outstanding feature of the fossil record is the
> >absence of evidence for evolution."
> >
> >
> >To try and get around this problem some evolutionists have proposed other
> >theories which are just as ridiculous as gradualistic evolution. Richard
> >Goldsmidt proposed the theory of "hopeful monsters" where one day a reptile
> >would lay an egg and out popped a bird. Trouble is he would need another
> >totally improbable event, another hopefull monster being hatched at the
> same >time in the same area in order for them to breed. The other problem is
> that
> >there should be thousands of hopeless monsters littering the fossil record.
> >There are none.
> >
> >Harvard University's Stephen Jay Gould proposed punctuated equilibrium.
> Gould >postulated that perhaps species remain in stasis (the same) for
> millions of
> >years. Then only a few isolated breeding groups change into different
> >species. As Milton says;;
> >
> >"The difficulty with punctuated equilibrium is tha

Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[Jeff Sandlin]

I`m glad I never pursued a career as a diplomat, but I`d like to suggest
that just because someone uses the word truth, and they believe in a God
doesn`t necessarily mean they believe using the word truth bars an
Athiest or someone who doesn`t believe in anything from pursuing it or
lessen the value of their opinion. This site would get awful boring if
everyone agreed. Kind of like Huxley`s brave new world don`t you know.
P.S. I ws an Athiest once and the hypocrisy of organized religon was
what lead me to believe there was no God.   On the other hand,
the mark of the beast and one world government DO make great conspiracy
theory fodder. Have a great day all!


http://community.webtv.net/oldschool2/Jeffsonceandfuture
http://community.webtv.net/oldschool2/JeffSandlins

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
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and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
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Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[silas]

> -Original Message-
> From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
> Behalf Of ThePiedPiper
> Sent: 21 April 2000 11:32
> >
> > > 1) frozen bacteria has been found from impacted
> > > asteroids.  That bacteria has evidently been
> > > different enough that when integrated into
> > > earth life forms it has changed us.
> > >
>

I have read your post and the various links, no where is there and
definitive evidence that 'frozen bacteria has been found etc.'

There is a good deal of supposition and wishful thinking, but, alas, no
evidence.

Silas

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are sordid
matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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[CTRL] Chuck Morse on Elian & RE: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[Tara]

d health standards were correct.. What good are
any of these things if one is not free? A man sentenced to life in prison is
not much better off if he reads well or is kept in good health. The Cuban,
like all communist "masses" is serving a life term in slavery. The American
left either doesn't understand this, or supports it.






Charles A. Morse is a nationally syndicated talk show host
heard on the American Freedom Network and is a
contributing writer for Enter Stage Right , Sierra Times and the Etherzone.
http://www.chuckmorse.com/elian_gonzalez.html


-----Original Message-----
From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of ThePiedPiper
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 8:04 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!


For both of you - in case you have not read what is at the
end of every post!
>CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing
propaganda screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please!<

I see nothing in this post that even resembles
conspiracy and since this list has a
limit of a 100 posts a day - this can be
taken off list I hope???

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are sordid
matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
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Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[ThePiedPiper]

For both of you - in case you have not read what is at the
end of every post!
>CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing
propaganda screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please!<

I see nothing in this post that even resembles
conspiracy and since this list has a
limit of a 100 posts a day - this can be
taken off list I hope???

If you are competing may I please suggest a competition??
I have a favorite conspiracy of my own and wonder if
you two want to work on some different hyposthesis(s)?

The problem below could have been caused by
* overpopulation
* rouge government
* other cultures
* bacteria - they no longer had fertile fertilizer
so like the dinosaurs out they went.
  This hypothesis seems to hinge on the brain being
  a parasite and the possibility that an intelligence
  matrix can be any energy source, such as a pool of
  petrochemicals.  So, who has control
*you, another energy source, a telepath, the
bacteria from a 100 year old tree or the bacteria from
a (pesticide, herbicide poisoned) wheat plant.  What
urges do you feel?


It is --
--- Comments: This site contains a laypersons perspective
on how education, ADHD, chemicals and
 politics relate to each other. The major theme of the site is -
 + Honor
 + any time (in history) a major center of
education was amassed, compiled, or put together is was
 destroyed, why? The educational center was
pushed by other cultures, the children tested by the
 rules and morals of that culture to see how
the other culture might be able to integrate the ideas or
 to control the desirable education. The parents
wondered why and lost the consistancy, that Trust
 and Education is built on. Killing the Goose
that laid the golden egg. 

Also this post is missing citations
I am not interested in propaganda against
another person being fed to me.  Cite
it or please leave this things off list.

Also:
a mentally balanced schizophrenic
might be called a author.
ThePiedPiper




David Sutherland wrote:
>
> I apologise - truly - I had no idea what possessed me!
>
> We did have a full moon?
>
> They say it brings out the fairies - perhaps I was hallucinating trolls - I
> dunno.
>
> I promise in future to be more circumspect - I'll endeavour to refrain from
> using "interent troy" and will revert to, as you suggest, the less deviant
> forms such as   "sh*thead, *sshole, etc"
>
> Cheers! From Downunder!!! (GGG)
>
> BTW - did I ever tell (TRUE STORY!) - the story of one of our Koala's
> pissing on a politician - ? Oh well - one day maybe.
>
> Oddly, about a month after this little fluffy rotter did the dirty deed -
> there was a Parliamentary inquiry into the feasibility of culling the
> supposed Koala overpopulation - Hmmm ... I smell a conspiracy afoot
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jeff Russo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 1:09 AM
> Subject: Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!
>
> > > But I'm also always willing to make time to defend freedom of speech
> from
> > > prattling egomaniacal twats, self-appointed censors, and internet trolls
> > > like you - that's no problem either.
> >
> > All right... I've seen people get called a lot of rotten things on this
> list in
> > the last 3 years sh*thead, *sshole, etc... but "internet troll?"
> >
> > That crosses the line.
> >
> >
> > =
> > Jeff Russo
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > www.mindspring.com/~sevnout
> > -
> > "A paranoid-schizophrenic is a guy who
> >  just found out what's going on"
> > -- William S. Burroughs


--
Any person can stand adversity,
The true test is to give a person power.

If you treat a relationship as if you are the only one in it, eventually
you will be.

Atrocities happen when the people about you -
 start considering you surplus.

"I tolerate with the utmost latitude the right of
others to differ from me in opinion"
   Thomas Jefferson 

My Grandfather told me there are two kinds of people:
those who do the work and
those who take the credit.
He told me to be in the first group -
 there is less competition there. -
Indira Gandhi

http://freeweb.digiweb.com/science_fiction/ThePiedPiper/~index.htm
ICQ 14484977
NEW
http://ThePiedPiper.tripod.com/site_map.htm

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are sordid
matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by diffe

Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[Gavin Phillips]

In a message dated 4/20/00 1:44:16 AM Central Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:

<< This primitive, superstitious blather is as off topic here as was
 abortion. It's an intentional diversion intended to distract us from our
 study of the truth. Go away and stop trying to disrupt our research.

Gavin.
If you don't like it, press delete.



 Besides, evolution is a fact. The empirical evidence is overwhelming. Get
 used to it.


Gavin.
No, it is not a fact. No, there is no empirical evidence for macro-evolution,
which supposedly happened over tens of billions of years. Get used to that.



 Go peddle your religions on a religion list. This is not a religion list.
 Religion is disruptive. It doesn't belong on this list. Go away; take your
 superstitions with you. Leave us alone; we're trying to accomplish
 something here. You're in the way.

 There are two possible explanations for you prattling on about off topic
 subjects, one after another. (1.) You're exceedingly rude, or (2.)
 somebody pays you to disrupt conspiracy research.  Either way, we're
 better off without you. Besides, there are plenty of places on the web
 that exist specifically for  people like you and the flat earthers an the
 rest of your ilk to feel at home in. Go there. Reinforce each other's
 childish delusions to your hearts' content. Leave us grownups alone.

Gavin.
Start your own list, then you can censor away, otherwise follow your own
advice, and act like a grown-up. Stop lecturing, nobody gives a shit.

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are sordid
matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
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Om

Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[Gavin Phillips]

In a message dated 4/19/00 9:32:30 PM Central Daylight Time,
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

<< Gavin Phillips wrote:
 >
 > Many excellent quotations. Darwinian evolution has been repeatedly
discredited by several good books documenting the litany of missing chains
(not links).
 >
 > It is the holy grail of mainstream science to think that they are able to
explain the genesis of humankind. Evolution doesn't come close, but they will
desperately cling to it untill they can conjure up another theory which
allows them to explain everything scientifically.
 >
 > Darwiniian macro-evolution is a religion. It has never been observed or
repeated in a laboratory. Total nonsense. Gavin.
 ===


 This is the dumbest thing I've ever seen you write.
 I won't even bother to respond to such an absurdity,
 because to do so might lead some half baked idiot to
 think that there are two sides to this argument, when
 there is no argument at all.

 Whatever happened to your mind?

 Joshua2
  >>


Poor Joshua, have you already forgotten our little set-to a few months ago
about disarming Americans, and trailed into a debate about Darwinian
evolution. You are as ignorant now as you were then. There are two sides to
this argument. One side is losing very badly. The Darwinian theory of
macro-evolution is down and out-period.

 Phillip Johnson, author of many books on this subject replied to my email
informing me that he has won every debate that he has had so far, many of
them with University professors. Guess how he wins every time? Because
Darwinian macro-evolution is complete and utter, unadulterated 100% BULLSHIT.

Below is a partial reminder of our little tête-à-tête a few months ago.


Gavin;
 I do not practice any type of religion. I do not beleive in the bible
chapter and verse, the earth was made in 6 days etc. I know through reading
several books on evolution that it is complete nonsense with only a few bones
as "proof" that it happened.

>Joshua;
> This is entirely wrong. This is the pathetic defense of  supernaturalists.
> Evolution is is a daily observable process. Also, you need to get yourself
> updated on the " Bones " issue. There are MANY almost complete fossil
> records to demonstrate the evolutionary process. I suggest you read " The
Beak
> of the Finch " for a clear and recent demonstration of evolution at work.
>
>
>Gavin;
>
>You are completely wrong and really should do far more research into the
glaring loopholes in your hypothesis before making an ass of yourself.
>
>There are obviously 100's of bones and skeletons of animals from millions of
>years ago. What evolutionists do not have, and they admit this, is the 1000's
>of transitional bones when one species changes into another species. As
>Phillip Johnson says in the article I have posted;
>
>"The most important is the fossil problem, because this is a direct record
of >the history of life on earth. If Darwinism were true, you would expect the
>fossil evidence to contain many examples of Darwinian evolution. You would
>expect to see fossils that really couldn't be understood except as
>transitions between one kind of organism and another... "
>
>"In reality, the fossil record is something that Darwinists have had to
>explain away, because what it shows is the sudden appearance of organisms
>that exhibit no trace of step-by-step development from earlier formsIn
>short, if evolution is the gradual, step-by-step transformation of one kind
>of thing into another, the outstanding feature of the fossil record is the
>absence of evidence for evolution."
>
>
>To try and get around this problem some evolutionists have proposed other
>theories which are just as ridiculous as gradualistic evolution. Richard
>Goldsmidt proposed the theory of "hopeful monsters" where one day a reptile
>would lay an egg and out popped a bird. Trouble is he would need another
>totally improbable event, another hopefull monster being hatched at the
same >time in the same area in order for them to breed. The other problem is
that
>there should be thousands of hopeless monsters littering the fossil record.
>There are none.
>
>Harvard University's Stephen Jay Gould proposed punctuated equilibrium.
Gould >postulated that perhaps species remain in stasis (the same) for
millions of
>years. Then only a few isolated breeding groups change into different
>species. As Milton says;;
>
>"The difficulty with punctuated equilibrium is that it is wholly speculative
>and has been introduced simply to account for the lack of fossils that
ought >exist in the neo-Darwinist theory."
>
>Once again, there is no concrete proof for either hypothesis.
>
>
 Not only books by Christian scientists, but books by scientists such as
>Michael Denton's, Evolution : A Theory in Crisis and the recent Darwin's
Black
Box: The Biochemical Challenge to Evolution by Michael J. Behe Assoc. Prof.
of Biochemistry at Lehigh University in Pennsylvania in which Behe mounts
an  insurmountable  challenge to gradual

Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[David Sutherland]

I apologise - truly - I had no idea what possessed me!

We did have a full moon?

They say it brings out the fairies - perhaps I was hallucinating trolls - I
dunno.

I promise in future to be more circumspect - I'll endeavour to refrain from
using "interent troy" and will revert to, as you suggest, the less deviant
forms such as   "sh*thead, *sshole, etc"

Cheers! From Downunder!!! (GGG)

BTW - did I ever tell (TRUE STORY!) - the story of one of our Koala's
pissing on a politician - ? Oh well - one day maybe.

Oddly, about a month after this little fluffy rotter did the dirty deed -
there was a Parliamentary inquiry into the feasibility of culling the
supposed Koala overpopulation - Hmmm ... I smell a conspiracy afoot


- Original Message -
From: "Jeff Russo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, April 22, 2000 1:09 AM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!


> > But I'm also always willing to make time to defend freedom of speech
from
> > prattling egomaniacal twats, self-appointed censors, and internet trolls
> > like you - that's no problem either.
>
> All right... I've seen people get called a lot of rotten things on this
list in
> the last 3 years sh*thead, *sshole, etc... but "internet troll?"
>
> That crosses the line.
>
>
> =
> Jeff Russo
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> www.mindspring.com/~sevnout
> -
> "A paranoid-schizophrenic is a guy who
>  just found out what's going on"
> -- William S. Burroughs
>
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.
> http://invites.yahoo.com
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing
propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please!  These are
sordid
> matters
> and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
> frauds-is used politically by different groups with major and minor
effects
> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
> nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Available at:
> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
>  http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl
> 
> To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> To UNsubscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
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>
> Om
>

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DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are sordid
matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[tenebroust]

Nessie illustrates quite well in the quoted post below why it is impossible to 
rationally discuss issues of this type without invective and rhetoric.  Evolution, 
creationism, religion, and other issues that involve a certain amount of philosophy 
also require a certain amount of belief on the part of the adherants.  When belief 
comes into play there is an emotional attachment which causes a lot of invective and 
anger, and more rhetoric etc.  In the end what is gained?  You will never be able to 
change the mind of someone who has an opposing belief system than you in rational 
discourse, so nothing is gained in its discussion.  Nessie, in a previous post, 
brought up a good related topic to discuss in this vein and that is the suppression of 
alternative science, and the like, and that certainly has connections to the origin of 
life question.



On Thu, 20 April 2000, nessie wrote:

>
> Look, I'm not going to debate evolution vs creationism with you here. This
> is not the right place. This place is for conspiracy theory. If you want
> to talk about conspiracy theory, we can talk about conspiracy theory. We
> can talk about it here. This is the place to talk about conspiracy theory.
>
> If you want to debate  evolution vs creationism, do it somewhere else. Do
> it with somebody else. I don't want to debate  evolution vs creationism
> with you or with anybody else, here or anywhere. We're not going to change
> each other's minds. All we would accomplish would be to waste each other's
> time. If we do it in public, on this list at least, we'd also waste a
> bunch of other people's time.  I don't want to waste other people's time,
> even yours. If you do, you're a jerk.
>
> You may have time to waste, but I don't. Even if I did have time to waste,
> I  fail to see any sound reason I should waste it on you. You're boring.
>
> You're also off topic. Take this evolution vs creationism debate to an
> appropriate venue. This is not the appropriate venue. Appropriate venues
> are available. Find one. Do it now.
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are sordid
> matters
> and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
> frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
> nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
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> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
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> Om

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==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are sordid
matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[ThePiedPiper]

This is the url for #5
http://kat.microbio.umanitoba.ca/gklassen/read2.htm

ThePiedPiper wrote:
>
> Get ready for some reading
> also if you need links for this I will post
> - Do you know that a Noble Prize was given for finding
> out that bacteria does reproduce in many ways INCLUDING
> Sexually?  I have those links in this essay
> http://ThePiedPiper.tripod.com/esevol3b.html
>
> Here are your citations for frozen bacteria -
>
> A educational course for credit that asks the same question
> I do
> 1) Asteroids, Comets, and Meterorites: Their Intimate
>  Relation with Life on Earth
> http://www.yale.edu/ynhti/curriculum/units/1996/6/96.06.03.x.html
>
> 2)http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc012700.html
> This is copyrighted materia from the cambridge-conference network
> ..."According to Chyba, when these ions slam into the icy surface of the
> moon, chemical reactions are likely to occur, transforming frozen
> molecules of water and carbon dioxide into new organic compounds
> such as formaldehyde.
>
> It turns out that one of the most common bacteria on Earth,
> Hyphomicrobium, survives on formaldehyde as its sole source of carbon,
> and Chyba believes that similar formaldehyde-feeding microbes could be
> alive and swimming in Europa's subsurface ocean.
>
> In addition to creating organic fuels, radiation from Jupiter also may
> drive chemical reactions that produce oxidants -- molecules such as
> oxygen and hydrogen peroxide that can be used to burn formaldehyde
> and other carbon-based fuels."...
>
> 3)
> http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/PSRdiscoveries/Dec96/LifeUnderground.html
> "Microorganisms in the Rock in the Dark"
> ..."In their second experiment, Stevens and McKinley
>  used sterilized basalt as a culture medium to see
> if bacteria could live in the rock in the dark.
> They put water from deep wells into tubes containing the
> sterilized basalt, and examined them after
> various lengths of time for up to one year. The water was
> not processed in any way to preserve the bacteria
> that was in it. Under these dark, oxygen-starved
> conditions, the rock-water interactions are the
>  only source of energy possible. No sunlight reached
> the capsules, so photosynthesis could not take
>  place. Remarkably, even after a year, bacteria were
> thriving in this unusual environment."...
>
> 4)
> http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/ast27jul99_1.htm
> Astrobiologists To Hunt Small Game in Siberia
> Arctic permafrost may hold clues to life on other worlds
>
> 5)
> ..."Biological evolution begins with the
> origin of life. Before that there must
> have been chemical interactions which
> prepared the molecules that came together
> in the first living thing. Most people
> think of this event as an episode of
> molecular self-organization, but perhaps
> it is more correct just to call it molecular
> organization.
>
> Carbon atoms were synthesized long ago in
> exploding stars and then incorporated into
> relatively simple organic compounds which
> are spread out all over the universe. On
> our planet, most of the organics are parts
> of living things or their waste materials.
> Organic matter from space is coming in all
> the time in the form of small carbonaceous
> meteorites (less than a few metres in diameter)
> and microscopic interplanetary dust particles (IDPs).
>
>  What is the 'Origin of Life'? "...
>
> silas wrote:
> >
> > > -Original Message-
> > > From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
> > > Behalf Of ThePiedPiper
> >
> > > 1) frozen bacteria has been found from impacted
> > > asteroids.  That bacteria has evidently been
> > > different enough that when integrated into
> > > earth life forms it has changed us.
> > >
> > >
> >
> > A list like this one is bound to attract the 'barmy army' element, and if
> > you don't take them too seriously, they can be quite amusing.
> >
> > However, it has been pointed out that the purpose of this list is serious
> > research and some valuable work is being done. That may well be the case, I
> > don't know.
> >
> > IF this is a serious discussion list, then when someone posts an unsupported
> > 'fact', it is not at all unreasonable for someone else to ask for a source
> > or verifiable reference for this 'fact'. This is perfectly normal procedure
> > and should come as no surprise to anyone.
> >
> > If, on the other hand, you are going to allow ( and believe) any old rubbish
> > that someone decides is of merit, the list will have no credibility at all
> > and you may as well rename it as 'Conspiracy Fantasy Research List'.
> >
> > Yesterday, I asked Duncan to provide some evidence for a claim he was
> > making. Up to now I have had no response apart from a rather cryptic ' you
> > can take a horse to water' message. I must therefore conclude that his
> > claims are false and he should withdraw them.
> >
> > The above quotation is of a similar vein, I would like to see a valid source
> > for this claim, and I 

Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[ThePiedPiper]

Get ready for some reading
also if you need links for this I will post
- Do you know that a Noble Prize was given for finding
out that bacteria does reproduce in many ways INCLUDING
Sexually?  I have those links in this essay
http://ThePiedPiper.tripod.com/esevol3b.html

Here are your citations for frozen bacteria -

A educational course for credit that asks the same question
I do
1) Asteroids, Comets, and Meterorites: Their Intimate
 Relation with Life on Earth
http://www.yale.edu/ynhti/curriculum/units/1996/6/96.06.03.x.html

2)http://abob.libs.uga.edu/bobk/ccc/cc012700.html
This is copyrighted materia from the cambridge-conference network
..."According to Chyba, when these ions slam into the icy surface of the
moon, chemical reactions are likely to occur, transforming frozen
molecules of water and carbon dioxide into new organic compounds
such as formaldehyde.

It turns out that one of the most common bacteria on Earth,
Hyphomicrobium, survives on formaldehyde as its sole source of carbon,
and Chyba believes that similar formaldehyde-feeding microbes could be
alive and swimming in Europa's subsurface ocean.

In addition to creating organic fuels, radiation from Jupiter also may
drive chemical reactions that produce oxidants -- molecules such as
oxygen and hydrogen peroxide that can be used to burn formaldehyde
and other carbon-based fuels."...

3)
http://www.soest.hawaii.edu/PSRdiscoveries/Dec96/LifeUnderground.html
"Microorganisms in the Rock in the Dark"
..."In their second experiment, Stevens and McKinley
 used sterilized basalt as a culture medium to see
if bacteria could live in the rock in the dark.
They put water from deep wells into tubes containing the
sterilized basalt, and examined them after
various lengths of time for up to one year. The water was
not processed in any way to preserve the bacteria
that was in it. Under these dark, oxygen-starved
conditions, the rock-water interactions are the
 only source of energy possible. No sunlight reached
the capsules, so photosynthesis could not take
 place. Remarkably, even after a year, bacteria were
thriving in this unusual environment."...

4)
http://science.nasa.gov/newhome/headlines/ast27jul99_1.htm
Astrobiologists To Hunt Small Game in Siberia
Arctic permafrost may hold clues to life on other worlds

5)
..."Biological evolution begins with the
origin of life. Before that there must
have been chemical interactions which
prepared the molecules that came together
in the first living thing. Most people
think of this event as an episode of
molecular self-organization, but perhaps
it is more correct just to call it molecular
organization.

Carbon atoms were synthesized long ago in
exploding stars and then incorporated into
relatively simple organic compounds which
are spread out all over the universe. On
our planet, most of the organics are parts
of living things or their waste materials.
Organic matter from space is coming in all
the time in the form of small carbonaceous
meteorites (less than a few metres in diameter)
and microscopic interplanetary dust particles (IDPs).

 What is the 'Origin of Life'? "...


silas wrote:
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
> > Behalf Of ThePiedPiper
>
> > 1) frozen bacteria has been found from impacted
> > asteroids.  That bacteria has evidently been
> > different enough that when integrated into
> > earth life forms it has changed us.
> >
> >
>
> A list like this one is bound to attract the 'barmy army' element, and if
> you don't take them too seriously, they can be quite amusing.
>
> However, it has been pointed out that the purpose of this list is serious
> research and some valuable work is being done. That may well be the case, I
> don't know.
>
> IF this is a serious discussion list, then when someone posts an unsupported
> 'fact', it is not at all unreasonable for someone else to ask for a source
> or verifiable reference for this 'fact'. This is perfectly normal procedure
> and should come as no surprise to anyone.
>
> If, on the other hand, you are going to allow ( and believe) any old rubbish
> that someone decides is of merit, the list will have no credibility at all
> and you may as well rename it as 'Conspiracy Fantasy Research List'.
>
> Yesterday, I asked Duncan to provide some evidence for a claim he was
> making. Up to now I have had no response apart from a rather cryptic ' you
> can take a horse to water' message. I must therefore conclude that his
> claims are false and he should withdraw them.
>
> The above quotation is of a similar vein, I would like to see a valid source
> for this claim, and I will be more than surprised if one is found.
>
> I know that some people will not like my style and find me offensive, I can
> live with that, but if you don't like what I write, don't open my posts. I
> am not attacking any individual poster, I always try to play the ball, not
> the man, but if you are going to 

Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[Jeff Russo]

> But I'm also always willing to make time to defend freedom of speech from
> prattling egomaniacal twats, self-appointed censors, and internet trolls
> like you - that's no problem either.

All right... I've seen people get called a lot of rotten things on this list in
the last 3 years sh*thead, *sshole, etc... but "internet troll?"

That crosses the line.


=
Jeff Russo
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.mindspring.com/~sevnout
-
"A paranoid-schizophrenic is a guy who
 just found out what's going on"
-- William S. Burroughs

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==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are sordid
matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[David Sutherland]

As I said, I'm sorry to have shattered some childish illusion that you had
about something you thought was fact, which science says there no empirical
evidence for.

Frankly, the only "jerk" (as you say) I've come across on this list to date
is your ridiculously silly self.

Hmmm ... "boring" sounds like a Freudian glitch - Its fun exposing pious
frauds and Disinformation agents like you. Though my preference is to post
on issues, rather than on your glib persona.

And although I've said it three times - I'll say it a FOURTH, just for that
ninny-nong cranial cavity of yours.

I posted scientific quotes from reputable scientists about a philosophy,
which influences the thinking of human beings, corporations, governments,
and et al worldwide.

A philosophy, which has been used, as an excuse to murder millions. A
THEORY, which scientists, contrary to you unsubstantiated beliefs -
themselves say, has NO EMPIRICAL evidence.

Just as one would, for example, file evidence that the Vatican was
influential and involved with top Nazi's in Germany - without turning it
into your personal abuse, or your pseudo-religious gobbledegook.

I never mentioned "creationism" or "religion" - you did.

The only one that has made of it a religious debate is you - not me. You are
obviously some kind of troll and a fanatic religionist - you even attempted
to use "Jesus" in your noxious, inaccurate and irreverent diatribe as
"proof" for - well, no one really knows what. You're a complete WEIRDO!

Others here have expressed their thoughts to my thread - without resorting
to rudeness, as did your original puerile post.

They expressed their opinion, moved on, and that was that - you, on the
other hand wanted simply to be a prat, be rude and gag free speech.

You've been exposed as a cretin, and gagger of free speech - by your own
words and activities.

I can keep responding to your hypocrisy for as long as you wish- if you want
to leave your fanaticism here, stick a sock in that overworked gob, and go
back to you paranoid "conspiracy" (aka censorship) drivel - now that's
fine - no problems.

But I'm also always willing to make time to defend freedom of speech from
prattling egomaniacal twats, self-appointed censors, and internet trolls
like you - that's no problem either.


- Original Message -----
From: "nessie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 3:29 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!


> Look, I'm not going to debate evolution vs creationism with you here. This
> is not the right place. This place is for conspiracy theory. If you want
> to talk about conspiracy theory, we can talk about conspiracy theory. We
> can talk about it here. This is the place to talk about conspiracy theory.
>
> If you want to debate  evolution vs creationism, do it somewhere else. Do
> it with somebody else. I don't want to debate  evolution vs creationism
> with you or with anybody else, here or anywhere. We're not going to change
> each other's minds. All we would accomplish would be to waste each other's
> time. If we do it in public, on this list at least, we'd also waste a
> bunch of other people's time.  I don't want to waste other people's time,
> even yours. If you do, you're a jerk.
>
> You may have time to waste, but I don't. Even if I did have time to waste,
> I  fail to see any sound reason I should waste it on you. You're boring.
>
> You're also off topic. Take this evolution vs creationism debate to an
> appropriate venue. This is not the appropriate venue. Appropriate venues
> are available. Find one. Do it now.
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing
propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please!  These are
sordid
> matters
> and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, misdirections and
outright
> frauds-is used politically by different groups with major and minor
effects
> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
> nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Available at:
> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
>  http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[Tenorlove]

--- Dano <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> No religion nor science here...just common sense.
> As I read the Origin of Species, I quickly realized what
> Darwin was explaining is micro evolution. Adaptation, as well
> as natural selection neither of which provide a satisfactory
> explanation how we go from microorganisms to complex, so-called,
> higher life forms...Macro evolution.
>
> So what we got here are two diametrically opposing views:
>
>  creationism vs. evolution
>
> It is painfully obvious that BOTH lack sufficient detail
> to ascertain accuracy.
>
> There are 3 sides to every story, your's, mine and the truth.

Maybe if we take the word "theory" out and substitute "model" it would
be a little less inflammatory.

__
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Send online invitations with Yahoo! Invites.
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http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are sordid
matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of
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Om

Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[silas]

> -Original Message-
> From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
> Behalf Of ThePiedPiper


> 1) frozen bacteria has been found from impacted
> asteroids.  That bacteria has evidently been
> different enough that when integrated into
> earth life forms it has changed us.
>
>

A list like this one is bound to attract the 'barmy army' element, and if
you don't take them too seriously, they can be quite amusing.

However, it has been pointed out that the purpose of this list is serious
research and some valuable work is being done. That may well be the case, I
don't know.

IF this is a serious discussion list, then when someone posts an unsupported
'fact', it is not at all unreasonable for someone else to ask for a source
or verifiable reference for this 'fact'. This is perfectly normal procedure
and should come as no surprise to anyone.

If, on the other hand, you are going to allow ( and believe) any old rubbish
that someone decides is of merit, the list will have no credibility at all
and you may as well rename it as 'Conspiracy Fantasy Research List'.

Yesterday, I asked Duncan to provide some evidence for a claim he was
making. Up to now I have had no response apart from a rather cryptic ' you
can take a horse to water' message. I must therefore conclude that his
claims are false and he should withdraw them.

The above quotation is of a similar vein, I would like to see a valid source
for this claim, and I will be more than surprised if one is found.

I know that some people will not like my style and find me offensive, I can
live with that, but if you don't like what I write, don't open my posts. I
am not attacking any individual poster, I always try to play the ball, not
the man, but if you are going to forward posts that are plain silly, then
you can get what you deserve. (In my opinion.)

Silas

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are sordid
matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of
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Om

Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[nessie]

Look, I'm not going to debate evolution vs creationism with you here. This
is not the right place. This place is for conspiracy theory. If you want
to talk about conspiracy theory, we can talk about conspiracy theory. We
can talk about it here. This is the place to talk about conspiracy theory.

If you want to debate  evolution vs creationism, do it somewhere else. Do
it with somebody else. I don't want to debate  evolution vs creationism
with you or with anybody else, here or anywhere. We're not going to change
each other's minds. All we would accomplish would be to waste each other's
time. If we do it in public, on this list at least, we'd also waste a
bunch of other people's time.  I don't want to waste other people's time,
even yours. If you do, you're a jerk.

You may have time to waste, but I don't. Even if I did have time to waste,
I  fail to see any sound reason I should waste it on you. You're boring.

You're also off topic. Take this evolution vs creationism debate to an
appropriate venue. This is not the appropriate venue. Appropriate venues
are available. Find one. Do it now.

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are sordid
matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of
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Om

Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[David Sutherland]

people still believe that they 
cannot navigate this vale of tears without such a crutch.” Ending the article, 
Gould admonished his readers, “Let us praise this 
evolutionary nexus, a far more stately mansion for the human soul 
than any pretty or parochial comfort ever conjured by our swollen neurology 
to obscure the source of our physical being, or to deny the natural substrate 
for our separate and complementary spiritual 
quest.”
 
A zealous Gnostic priest couldn't have spoken finer 
on behalf of his religious faith. Talk about a HIDDEN CONSPIRACY or 
WHAT!!! 
 
 
 
 
 
 
----- Original Message - 
From: "nessie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 12:57 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - 
SCIENTISTS SPEAK!
> [EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet 
writes:> >>Oh! Ahhm ... I see.> >> >>I 
see that mommy forget to change junior's poohey nappy.> >> 
>And you're ugly and your mother dresses you funny.> >> 
>However, that's not the topic of this particular list. This list is 
about> >conspiracy theory, not your mother, not evolution, not 
abortion and not> >comparative religion.> >> > 
>>So .  "nessie"?  Hmmm .. doesn't your name appear under a post 
below> > >something about . Pft!!!  
"elephant poop".> >> >Perhaps. Refresh my memory. Cite the 
exact quote to which you refer.> >> > >>This would 
have to be the most pious piece holier-than-thou paranoid> > 
>claptrap I've read on this list thus far.> >> 
>"Pious"!?! That's an interesting choice of terminology for you to use 
to> >describe my attack on what is essentially a religious position, 
not for> >BEING a religious position, but for being off topic and 
disruptive.  I> >think you are a little confused  about what 
the word pious actually> >means. Buy a dictionary.> 
>> > >>Your pious "study of the truth" - what - by 
condemning it!> >> >I'm condemning what YOU say is the 
truth. I say it's> a> >superstitious delusion.> 
 This is not the proper venue for debating who's right. This is a> 
conspiracy theory list. The comparative religion lists are somewhere 
else.> >> >> > >>You sound like a 
complete control freak.> >> >Far from it. I'm a life long 
anarchist activist. What I'm doing here is> >opposing control. Again 
and again people who are either religious zealots> >or paid 
infiltrators with disruptive intent have attempted to gain> >control 
of this>  list> >, flood it with their off topic 
propaganda and distract serious> >researchers of honest intent for 
whom this  space is a vital resource.> >This is not an 
appropriate venue for the discussion of religious> >doctrine. This is 
a venue dedicated to the discussion of conspiracy> >theory. The net is 
FULL of venues dedicated to the discussion of> >religious doctrine. Go 
do it there.> >> > >>Well, if for a moment you can 
lay aside your infantile B.S. and paranoia> >-the simple FACT is, that 
in the real world of the elite establishment -> >areyou aware that 
people are discriminated against from such basic rights> >as> 
> >employment for one example?> >> >This sentence 
isn't English. It's vocabulary is English> , but> > I can't 
tell what the syntax is. It sounds sort of Indo-European. Closer> 
>than that I couldn't even guess. Could it be an obscure dialect of> 
>Gibberish, perhaps? Or maybe it's Babble. Whatever it is, it's not> 
>English.> >> >What exactly were you trying to say? Were 
you trying to say that the> >world of the elite establishment is the 
real world? I disagree. It's part> >of the real world, nothing more. 
Am I aware of employment discrimination?> >Yes I am, and from personal 
experience. And you?> >> > >>This discrimination 
is not based on lack of ability, but on the basis> >that a> 
> >person does not subscribe to a> > 
>non-establishment view of the origins of life> > >and its 
associated social engineering dogma - this to me, seems would be> 
>of> > >concern to ANYONE on a - supposed "Conspiracy" 
forum.> >> >What are you trying to say here, that it is the 
result of a conspiracy> >that people are not hired to teach religious 
doctrine in the public> >schools? This is not the result of a 
conspiracy but of very specific> >wording in the US Constitution which 
prohibits the establishment of a> >state religion.> 
>> > >&g

Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[nessie]

[EMAIL PROTECTED],Internet writes:
>>Oh! Ahhm ... I see.
>
>>I see that mommy forget to change junior's poohey nappy.
>
>And you're ugly and your mother dresses you funny.
>
>However, that's not the topic of this particular list. This list is about
>conspiracy theory, not your mother, not evolution, not abortion and not
>comparative religion.
>

>>So .  "nessie"?  Hmmm .. doesn't your name appear under a post below

>something about . Pft!!!  "elephant poop".
>
>Perhaps. Refresh my memory. Cite the exact quote to which you refer.
>

>>This would have to be the most pious piece holier-than-thou paranoid

>claptrap I've read on this list thus far.
>
>"Pious"!?! That's an interesting choice of terminology for you to use to
>describe my attack on what is essentially a religious position, not for
>BEING a religious position, but for being off topic and disruptive.  I
>think you are a little confused  about what the word pious actually
>means. Buy a dictionary.
>

>>Your pious "study of the truth" - what - by condemning it!
>
>I'm condemning what YOU say is the truth. I say it's
a
>superstitious delusion.
 This is not the proper venue for debating who's right. This is a
conspiracy theory list. The comparative religion lists are somewhere else.
>
>

>>You sound like a complete control freak.
>
>Far from it. I'm a life long anarchist activist. What I'm doing here is
>opposing control. Again and again people who are either religious zealots
>or paid infiltrators with disruptive intent have attempted to gain
>control of this
 list
>, flood it with their off topic propaganda and distract serious
>researchers of honest intent for whom this  space is a vital resource.
>This is not an appropriate venue for the discussion of religious
>doctrine. This is a venue dedicated to the discussion of conspiracy
>theory. The net is FULL of venues dedicated to the discussion of
>religious doctrine. Go do it there.
>

>>Well, if for a moment you can lay aside your infantile B.S. and paranoia
>-the simple FACT is, that in the real world of the elite establishment -
>areyou aware that people are discriminated against from such basic rights
>as

>employment for one example?
>
>This sentence isn't English. It's vocabulary is English
, but
> I can't tell what the syntax is. It sounds sort of Indo-European. Closer
>than that I couldn't even guess. Could it be an obscure dialect of
>Gibberish, perhaps? Or maybe it's Babble. Whatever it is, it's not
>English.
>
>What exactly were you trying to say? Were you trying to say that the
>world of the elite establishment is the real world? I disagree. It's part
>of the real world, nothing more. Am I aware of employment discrimination?
>Yes I am, and from personal experience. And you?
>

>>This discrimination is not based on lack of ability, but on the basis
>that a

>person does not subscribe to a

>non-establishment view of the origins of life

>and its associated social engineering dogma - this to me, seems would be
>of

>concern to ANYONE on a - supposed "Conspiracy" forum.
>
>What are you trying to say here, that it is the result of a conspiracy
>that people are not hired to teach religious doctrine in the public
>schools? This is not the result of a conspiracy but of very specific
>wording in the US Constitution which prohibits the establishment of a
>state religion.
>

>>The fact that there are brave men and women out there - prepared to stick

>their necks on the line, not because they hold, or do not hold to a

>particular religious view, and as the article indicated - most did not,
>but

>rather, that they had the tenacity to simply state the truth as they saw

>it - even if contrary to the power and propaganda of the elites - this
>seems

>to have escaped your paranoid consensus reality and censorious mindset.
>
>Oh, I know they're out there alright. But they, their employment and
>their religious doctrine are off topic here. Like I said, it's not a
>conspiracy that keeps them from cramming their superstition down our
>kids' throats. It's the Constitution.
>

>>Perhaps in future, you'd like to actually offer constructive rational

>argument rather than attempt to demonise every post that your bigoted
>little
 p
>aranoiac bonehead disagrees with?
>
>Debate theory states that ad hominim attacks are a fairly good indication
>that the debater has no evidence to present.  Posts I disagree with fall
>into two categories, on-topic posts and off topic posts. On topic posts I
>either answer of ignore. Off topic posts don't belong here. They belong
>in venues to whose focus their subjects are relevant.
>

>>And as far as spooks being on your paranoid delusional tail - I'm sure
>they

>have better things to do with their time than waste it on a silly prat
>like

>yourself - such as using the crapper - though on the other hand, the guys

>from your local funny-farm - well . I'd advise you to keep looking over
>your

>shoulder!
>
>No problem. I like looking over my shoulder.
It ma

Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[Dano]

No religion nor science here...just common sense.
As I read the Origin of Species, I quickly realized what
Darwin was explaining is micro evolution. Adaptation, as well
as natural selection neither of which provide a satisfactory
explanation how we go from microorganisms to complex, so-called,
higher life forms...Macro evolution.

So what we got here are two diametrically opposing views:

 creationism vs. evolution

It is painfully obvious that BOTH lack sufficient detail
to ascertain accuracy.

There are 3 sides to every story, your's, mine and the truth.

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are sordid
matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[ThePiedPiper]

 were never
> plagued by a guilty conscience. Why are we so moralistic, Bundy wanted to
> know, when it comes to human life? Why is a human life worth more than a
> deer's life?" [1] Now I wonder which E THEORY taught him that!
>
> So tell us Mr big shot guru of "Conspiracy Theories" - what "THEORY" drives
> your precious bogie man NEW WORLD ORDER - if not the same E THEORY that the
> Third Reich put into such horrid PRACTICE - which, as you say, is your OWN
> blindly accepted as fact E THEORY also - you intellectual fraud and
> charlatan.
>
> [1] Dr. Elizabeth Loftus and Katherine Ketchchum, 'Witness for the Defense'
> p. 91
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "nessie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2000 4:43 PM
> Subject: Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!
>
> > This primitive, superstitious blather is as off topic here as was
> > abortion. It's an intentional diversion intended to distract us from our
> > study of the truth. Go away and stop trying to disrupt our research.
> >
> > Besides, evolution is a fact. The empirical evidence is overwhelming. Get
> > used to it.
> >
> > Go peddle your religions on a religion list. This is not a religion list.
> > Religion is disruptive. It doesn't belong on this list. Go away; take your
> > superstitions with you. Leave us alone; we're trying to accomplish
> > something here. You're in the way.
> >
> > There are two possible explanations for you prattling on about off topic
> > subjects, one after another. (1.) You're exceedingly rude, or (2.)
> > somebody pays you to disrupt conspiracy research.  Either way, we're
> > better off without you. Besides, there are plenty of places on the web
> > that exist specifically for  people like you and the flat earthers an the
> > rest of your ilk to feel at home in. Go there. Reinforce each other's
> > childish delusions to your hearts' content. Leave us grownups alone.
> >
> > http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
> > DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> > ==
> > CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing
> propagandic
> > screeds are unwelcomed. Substance-not soap-boxing-please!  These are
> sordid
> > matters
> > and 'conspiracy theory'-with its many half-truths, misdirections and
> outright
> > frauds-is used politically by different groups with major and minor
> effects
> > spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
> > gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to
> readers;
> > be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
> > nazi's need not apply.
> >
> > Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> > 
> > Archives Available at:
> > http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
> > http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >
> > http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
> >  http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl
> > 
> > To subscribe to Conspiracy Theory Research List[CTRL] send email:
> > SUBSCRIBE CTRL [to:] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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> >
> > Om
> >
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are sordid
> matters
> and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
> frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
> nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
> Archives Available at:
> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
> http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
>  http:[EMAIL PROTECTED]/">ctrl
> ===

Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[David Sutherland]

Oh! Ahhm ... I see.

I see that mommy forget to change junior's poohey nappy.

So .  "nessie"?  Hmmm .. doesn't your name appear under a post below
something about . Pft!!!  "elephant poop".

Well thanks "nessie" but really, you could have spared us - need not have
bothered with the shovel for this second pile.

This would have to be the most pious piece holier-than-thou paranoid
claptrap I've read on this list thus far.

Your pious "study of the truth" - what - by condemning it! You sound like a
complete control freak.

Well, if for a moment you can lay aside your infantile B.S. and paranoia -
the simple FACT is, that in the real world of the elite establishment - are
you aware that people are discriminated against from such basic rights as
employment for one example?

This discrimination is not based on lack of ability, but on the basis that a
person does not subscribe to a non-establishment view of the origins of life
and its associated social engineering dogma - this to me, seems would be of
concern to ANYONE on a - supposed "Conspiracy" forum.

The fact that there are brave men and women out there - prepared to stick
their necks on the line, not because they hold, or do not hold to a
particular religious view, and as the article indicated - most did not, but
rather, that they had the tenacity to simply state the truth as they saw
it - even if contrary to the power and propaganda of the elites - this seems
to have escaped your paranoid consensus reality and censorious mindset.

Perhaps in future, you'd like to actually offer constructive rational
argument rather than attempt to demonise every post that your bigoted little
paranoiac bonehead disagrees with?

And as far as spooks being on your paranoid delusional tail - I'm sure they
have better things to do with their time than waste it on a silly prat like
yourself - such as using the crapper - though on the other hand, the guys
from your local funny-farm - well . I'd advise you to keep looking over your
shoulder!

And just for the record AGAIN - the majority of the quotes (would you like
4,000 more - and referenced?) were from your own priestly elite - the
Evolutionists themselves, stating unequivocally that there IS NO EMPIRICAL
EVIDENCE for their own THEORY.

The same E THEORY that Nazi Germany adopted to murder the weak, malformed,
minorities, and the demonised so-called racially impure.

The same E THEORY that your Social Engineers originally employed to
majoritively, and racially target BLACK babies for abortive extermination.

The same E THEORY that Hitler based his Master Race plan, and racial hatred
on.

The same E THEORY that hastened steps toward the Holocaust, and
extermination of millions of Jews, and adopted by Nazi quacks to mutilate
and torture their human subjects because they were lower on the E THEORY
scale.

The same E THEORY that promotes imperialist capitalist dog-eat-dog, survival
of the fittest, and rapacious "progress" mentality to plunder the weak, and
the poor, and rape weaker nations of their sovereignty and resources.

The same E THEORY that led Ted Bundy to kill wantonly - writes Dr Loftus,
"he rambled on once about hunters who stalked and killed deer and were never
plagued by a guilty conscience. Why are we so moralistic, Bundy wanted to
know, when it comes to human life? Why is a human life worth more than a
deer's life?" [1] Now I wonder which E THEORY taught him that!

So tell us Mr big shot guru of "Conspiracy Theories" - what "THEORY" drives
your precious bogie man NEW WORLD ORDER - if not the same E THEORY that the
Third Reich put into such horrid PRACTICE - which, as you say, is your OWN
blindly accepted as fact E THEORY also - you intellectual fraud and
charlatan.


[1] Dr. Elizabeth Loftus and Katherine Ketchchum, 'Witness for the Defense'
p. 91




- Original Message -
From: "nessie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2000 4:43 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!


> This primitive, superstitious blather is as off topic here as was
> abortion. It's an intentional diversion intended to distract us from our
> study of the truth. Go away and stop trying to disrupt our research.
>
> Besides, evolution is a fact. The empirical evidence is overwhelming. Get
> used to it.
>
> Go peddle your religions on a religion list. This is not a religion list.
> Religion is disruptive. It doesn't belong on this list. Go away; take your
> superstitions with you. Leave us alone; we're trying to accomplish
> something here. You're in the way.
>
> There are two possible explanations for you prattling on about off topic
> subjects, one after another. (1.) You're exceedingly rude, or (2.)
> somebody pays you to disrupt

Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[Dale Stonehouse]

On Thursday, April 20, 2000 10:03 AM, silas [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
wrote:
> Let me spell it out for the morons. If you wish to believe
> in this rubbish then fine

If you think all men must BELIEVE in something you are wrong. Believe it or
not some choose not to believe. Period. Belief is an error of humanity,
given to us by our "creators." Words were given to support belief. Try
believing in something without words to back it up.

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are sordid
matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[Chris Gaydosh]

I'm not sure how we got onto this subject... Passover or Easter I presume.  But
it seems to me that their is a great deal of pontification about evolution and
'non-evolution' by people who know little or nothing about geology or
archaeology.
First, evolution is not accurately described as a "theory", it is a hypothesis.
By definition, it cannot be replicated, at least on the macro level, although
microevolution happens billions of times daily with insects, plants, viruses
etc.
Second, the fossil record is very incomplete, and there is little hope of ever
finding a transitional species that lived for only a short time.  Consider this
analogy.   In your house you posses a copy of each and every recording ever
made-CD, tape, LP, wax impressions- every one going back to Edison.  One day
your house catches fire.  It stays there, untouched for a few years while
hurricanes, floods, and other natural processes turn it into a pile of rubble.
Now--- go look for those recordings.  How complete of a picture of the entire
variability of recorded music will you be able to sample?  Will some be in
better shape than others?  What about the forms that 'died out' or had only a
few musicians and albums?
That's how the fossil record is... but convert that to a billion years and you
begin to see the problem of reconstructing a puzzle so vast and complex.  It has
been said that we have only calculated 10-20% of all CURRENTLY living species on
the planet.
Creationists tend to argue that evolution is a religion, and that one cannot be
Christian, Jewish or even Muslim and believe in this conflicting religion.  As
others here noted, evolution does not explain where life came from or how it
decided to take this evolutionary path. Technically, they are correct, if the
definition of religion is a system of beliefs, evolution is one. Scientific
method is one. It is a religion of searching for the truth, where most true
religions, the truth is told to you.  I have never seen a problem with the two
coexisting, as these are different truths.
My last point is that name calling never solved anything, and is very
unprofessional.  If you are on here to promote your personal philosophy and push
it on others, this is no place for you.  If you are here to DISCUSS differing
viewpoints and ideas it most certainly IS for you.

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are sordid
matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[silas]

> -Original Message-
> From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
> Behalf Of Dale Stonehouse
> Sent: 20 April 2000 15:47
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!
>
>
> On Thursday, April 20, 2000 8:44 AM, silas
> [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
> >
> > OK. You site this as a fact. Where is your reference for this?.
>
> If you claim to be educated, you could spell 'cite' correctly.
> >
> > What form of 'Evidence' are you talking about?
>
> Ah, the religion of "evidence." Isn't that like the religions of "truth",
> "credibility" and "proof?"
> >
> > Personally, I think you are talking out of your arse, but I am
> prepared to
> > be persuaded otherwise if you can supply the above information.
>
> Face it, 3D existence forces us to choose which untruths to
> "believe." Those
> from elsewhere laugh their "arses" off at us because we "believe" anything
> we "see." If we "see" a holographic projection  we don't question its
> reality because we "saw" it with our own eyes.
>
> > I think that basically you are quite harmless, but you could do
> with some
> > education.
>
> To which type of education do you refer - that which teaches us WHAT to
> think, or that which teaches us HOW to think?



Well, three posts all castigating my own posting, but not ONE of them
answers even one of the points that I raised.

Let me spell it out for the morons. Yes, you can post any old crap and call
it a fact, but if you do, it is not unreasonable for someone to ask you to
support your 'facts'.

Clearly the 'facts' in this case are not supportable. If you wish to believe
in this rubbish then fine, but you may as well believe in fairies,
leprechauns, goblins and the conservative party being men of honour.
~  Then, possibly you do!

Silas

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
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==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are sordid
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and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[Dale Stonehouse]

On Thursday, April 20, 2000 8:44 AM, silas [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
>
> OK. You site this as a fact. Where is your reference for this?.

If you claim to be educated, you could spell 'cite' correctly.
>
> What form of 'Evidence' are you talking about?

Ah, the religion of "evidence." Isn't that like the religions of "truth",
"credibility" and "proof?"
>
> Personally, I think you are talking out of your arse, but I am prepared to
> be persuaded otherwise if you can supply the above information.

Face it, 3D existence forces us to choose which untruths to "believe." Those
from elsewhere laugh their "arses" off at us because we "believe" anything
we "see." If we "see" a holographic projection  we don't question its
reality because we "saw" it with our own eyes.

> I think that basically you are quite harmless, but you could do with some
> education.

To which type of education do you refer - that which teaches us WHAT to
think, or that which teaches us HOW to think?

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Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[Jeff Sandlin]

When I was younger, young people had bumper stickers on their cars that
said question authority. Now they drive around with fish with legs on
their cars to insult people who do not have faith in the same belief
system they do. They just blindly accept the manure shoveled on them by
the NEA and the tenured cretins that teach them their  version of the
truth. I guess it is just easier to believe what you`re told by experts
than to look for the truth.
The truth is out there, the question is does anyone care?

http://community.webtv.net/oldschool2/Jeffsonceandfuture
http://community.webtv.net/oldschool2/JeffSandlins

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Om

Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[nexusmagazine]

>> What is so silly with the above scenario - it fits ALL the existing and
>> the suppressed information that we know of?
>
>I think that basically you are quite harmless, but you could do with some
>education.
>
>Silas

You can take a horse to water 


:)

Duncan


Duncan M. Roads
Editor, NEXUS Magazine
PO Box 30, Mapleton Qld 4560 Australia
Tel: +61 (0)7 5442 9280;   Fax:  +61 (0)7 5442 9381
http://www.nexusmagazine.com  ICQ#62399259

"The nature of the universe is such that ends can never justify the means.
On the contrary, the means always determine the end."
(Aldous Huxley)

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Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[silas]

> -Original Message-
> From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
> Behalf Of nexusmagazine
> Sent: 20 April 2000 13:42
> That was an interesting series of quotations you posted.
>
> I have published and read correspondence from archaeologists who have
> been coerced to falsify data.  The particular case I have in mind is one
> where fosilised evidence shows human mammoth hunting in central American
> 250,000 years ago.  Geological and carbon dating plus other dating
> techniques ALL confirmed this.  The whole team were asked to omit or
> falsify data to maintain funding.  One refused, she now lives hand to
> mouth, the other team members who complied all hold good posts in various
> universities.  This is NOT an isolated case.

OK. You site this as a fact. Where is your reference for this?.

Who are these 'Archaeologists'?

What form of 'Evidence' are you talking about?,

Who did the carbon dating?,

What other techniques were used?

Who asked the team to falsify data?

Who was it that refused?

What universities now employ these members?

Personally, I think you are talking out of your arse, but I am prepared to
be persuaded otherwise if you can supply the above information.

Now, lets have a look at the rest of this post.




>


> no one wants to stick their head out with contradictory data - it is
> academic suicide.

Wrong. Without innovative thinking and inspiration, we would still be in the
dark ages.

>
> Evolution through species is an obvious nonsense, placing more faith in
> randomness, than Christians even place in God.
> Similarly I am not happy with any existing religious explanations for
> where life on Earth came from.

This sentence clearly shows your own lack of understanding of evolution.
There is nothing random about it. It is called the evolution of species
through natural selection, and it means exactly what it says on the tin.


> Assuming the two choices we are given, ie science or religion are both
> incomplete (or downright wrong), we are only left with one alternative:
>
> a)  life was seeded here either accidentally or deliberately by other
> life forms from elsewhere in the omniverse (an omniverse being more than
> one 'space-time continuum universe [multidimensional])
>

OK clever guy, where did the life come from that 'seeded here'?

> b)  many original lifeforms were (either accidentally or deliberately)
> erased at various intervals (the 5 mass extinctions) and 'replaced' with
> newer improved models.  Using the fossil record (remember also that
> fossils happen as a result of sudden catastrophes, ie catastrophism) we
> find NO transitional species, only complete unique lifeforms.
>

Again, you have an incomplete understanding of this subject.


> c)  i conclude that we started off with many more species and lifeforms
> on this planet than we have now.  If the theory of evolution is wrong,
> then this also means that the huge number of lifeforms present on Earth
> right now are the 'left overs' of what was not removed during the mass
> extinctions.  All life on Earth may well be just 5-10% of what was
> orginally 'put' here.  Given mass extinctions, asteroid impacts, climatic
> change, ice ages, solar flares, diseases, interbreeding,  wars,
> earthchanges and the like, I'd say we would be lucky to have even 10% of
> the original number of varieties.
>
> The question now is whether life on Earth is a result of accidental
> contamination, or deliberate germination.
>
> And that just applies to physicality.  How does one explain intellect,
> emotions, spiritual experiences, psychic experiences etc via a
> evolutionary process?
>
> Conspiracy theories are flourishing in this void of understanding our
> origins.
>
> Creationists conspired to suppress scientists.
> Scientists now conspire to suppress information that contradicts its own
> dogmas.   Anomalous and contradictory information should be used to
> further our understanding of life, not hidden away to protect vested
> academic and financial interests.
>
> Maybe it is time to listen to the records of the indigenous cultures of
> this planet.  They ALL basically say the same thing.
> 1)  Beings from the stars came here and created us/interbred with us
> 2)  We had advanced civilisations in our distant past
> 3)  We have had regular sudden catastrophes which have reshaped the face
> of our Earth, causing civilisations to disappear completely, and restart
> elsewhere.
>
> What is so silly with the above scenario - it fits ALL the existing and
> the suppressed information that we know of?

I think that basically you are quite harmless, but you could do with some
education.

Silas

>

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fra

[CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[nexusmagazine]

>This primitive, superstitious blather is as off topic here as was
>abortion. It's an intentional diversion intended to distract us from our
>study of the truth. Go away and stop trying to disrupt our research.
>
>Besides, evolution is a fact. The empirical evidence is overwhelming. Get
>used to it.
>
>Go peddle your religions on a religion list. This is not a religion list.
>Religion is disruptive. It doesn't belong on this list. Go away; take your
>superstitions with you. Leave us alone; we're trying to accomplish
>something here. You're in the way.

Evolution is NOT a fact - get used to it - better still do some research
and find out for yourself.

Why does rational discussion of the theory of evolution have to fall into
a debate between religion and science?  Both are wrong in my opinion, and
since this is a conspiracy discussion list, you should realise that there
is a conspiracy to keep contradictory information about 'anomalous'
history of the Earth away from the public.  This conspiracy is supported
by BOTH science and religion.

regards

Duncan


Duncan M. Roads
Editor, NEXUS Magazine
PO Box 30, Mapleton Qld 4560 Australia
Tel: +61 (0)7 5442 9280;   Fax:  +61 (0)7 5442 9381
http://www.nexusmagazine.com  ICQ#62399259

"The nature of the universe is such that ends can never justify the means.
On the contrary, the means always determine the end."
(Aldous Huxley)

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
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==
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screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are sordid
matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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[CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[nexusmagazine]

That was an interesting series of quotations you posted.

I have published and read correspondence from archaeologists who have
been coerced to falsify data.  The particular case I have in mind is one
where fosilised evidence shows human mammoth hunting in central American
250,000 years ago.  Geological and carbon dating plus other dating
techniques ALL confirmed this.  The whole team were asked to omit or
falsify data to maintain funding.  One refused, she now lives hand to
mouth, the other team members who complied all hold good posts in various
universities.  This is NOT an isolated case.

Noone wants to stick their head out with contradictory data - it is
academic suicide.

Evolution through species is an obvious nonsense, placing more faith in
randomness, than Christians even place in God.
Similarly I am not happy with any existing religious explanations for
where life on Earth came from.

Assuming the two choices we are given, ie science or religion are both
incomplete (or downright wrong), we are only left with one alternative:

a)  life was seeded here either accidentally or deliberately by other
life forms from elsewhere in the omniverse (an omniverse being more than
one 'space-time continuum universe [multidimensional])

b)  many original lifeforms were (either accidentally or deliberately)
erased at various intervals (the 5 mass extinctions) and 'replaced' with
newer improved models.  Using the fossil record (remember also that
fossils happen as a result of sudden catastrophes, ie catastrophism) we
find NO transitional species, only complete unique lifeforms.

c)  i conclude that we started off with many more species and lifeforms
on this planet than we have now.  If the theory of evolution is wrong,
then this also means that the huge number of lifeforms present on Earth
right now are the 'left overs' of what was not removed during the mass
extinctions.  All life on Earth may well be just 5-10% of what was
orginally 'put' here.  Given mass extinctions, asteroid impacts, climatic
change, ice ages, solar flares, diseases, interbreeding,  wars,
earthchanges and the like, I'd say we would be lucky to have even 10% of
the original number of varieties.

The question now is whether life on Earth is a result of accidental
contamination, or deliberate germination.

And that just applies to physicality.  How does one explain intellect,
emotions, spiritual experiences, psychic experiences etc via a
evolutionary process?

Conspiracy theories are flourishing in this void of understanding our
origins.

Creationists conspired to suppress scientists.
Scientists now conspire to suppress information that contradicts its own
dogmas.   Anomalous and contradictory information should be used to
further our understanding of life, not hidden away to protect vested
academic and financial interests.

Maybe it is time to listen to the records of the indigenous cultures of
this planet.  They ALL basically say the same thing.
1)  Beings from the stars came here and created us/interbred with us
2)  We had advanced civilisations in our distant past
3)  We have had regular sudden catastrophes which have reshaped the face
of our Earth, causing civilisations to disappear completely, and restart
elsewhere.

What is so silly with the above scenario - it fits ALL the existing and
the suppressed information that we know of?

Holiday wishes to you all

Duncan


Duncan M. Roads
Editor, NEXUS Magazine
PO Box 30, Mapleton Qld 4560 Australia
Tel: +61 (0)7 5442 9280;   Fax:  +61 (0)7 5442 9381
http://www.nexusmagazine.com  ICQ#62399259

"The nature of the universe is such that ends can never justify the means.
On the contrary, the means always determine the end."
(Aldous Huxley)

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
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==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are sordid
matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

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Om

Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[silas]

> -Original Message-
> From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
> Behalf Of Ynr Chyldz Wyld
> Sent: 20 April 2000 12:17
> From: "nessie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> Then why is it still referred to in textbooks and scientific
> literature as the THEORY of evolution?

For the same reason that 'The Big Bang' , 'Relativity', Etc are described as
theory. Observational sciences are difficut to prove experimentally.
>

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Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[Ynr Chyldz Wyld]

From: "nessie" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Besides, evolution is a fact. The empirical evidence is overwhelming. Get
> used to it.

Then why is it still referred to in textbooks and scientific literature as the THEORY 
of evolution?

Maybe because the 'empirical evidence' is NOT 'overwhelming'...too many cases of 
extinction and dead ends in the historical record.


June

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Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[Ynr Chyldz Wyld]

From: "tenebroust" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>I believe there is sufficient evidence for Micro-evolution by the fossil record.  I 
>even believe that some
>forms of Macro-evolution may occur under proper circumstances, but that there is 
>little if any evidence
>from the fossil record for same.  Regardless of where you stand on this issue it must 
>be acknowledged that
>the scientific establishment is hide bound and recalcitrant when it comes to opposing 
>viewpoints which call
>into question their dogma, and evolution is perhaps the greatest dogma of all.  Even 
>if all of evolution is
>indeed true in the sense that it happened pretty much like scientists surmise, all of 
>the anti-
>evolutionists/Deists/Christians/Creationists, can still take heart because there is 
>absolutely nothing
>which I am aware of in the scientific literature which explains the rise of life from 
>non-life, and in fact
>it is accepted scientific fact (by the scientists themselves) that a-biogenisis 
>cannot occur.  SO. . .that
>means they still can't explain where life came from even if they can tell how it came 
>to be so diverse.

There is a reason that the Theory of Evolution is still referred to as a THEORY   
;-)


June

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Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[nessie]

This primitive, superstitious blather is as off topic here as was
abortion. It's an intentional diversion intended to distract us from our
study of the truth. Go away and stop trying to disrupt our research.

Besides, evolution is a fact. The empirical evidence is overwhelming. Get
used to it.

Go peddle your religions on a religion list. This is not a religion list.
Religion is disruptive. It doesn't belong on this list. Go away; take your
superstitions with you. Leave us alone; we're trying to accomplish
something here. You're in the way.

There are two possible explanations for you prattling on about off topic
subjects, one after another. (1.) You're exceedingly rude, or (2.)
somebody pays you to disrupt conspiracy research.  Either way, we're
better off without you. Besides, there are plenty of places on the web
that exist specifically for  people like you and the flat earthers an the
rest of your ilk to feel at home in. Go there. Reinforce each other's
childish delusions to your hearts' content. Leave us grownups alone.

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and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
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spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
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Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[tenebroust]

I believe there is sufficient evidence for Micro-evolution by the fossil record.  I 
even believe that some forms of Macro-evolution may occur under proper circumstances, 
but that there is little if any evidence from the fossil record for same.  Regardless 
of where you stand on this issue it must be acknowledged that the scientific 
establishment is hide bound and recalcitrant when it comes to opposing viewpoints 
which call into question their dogma, and evolution is perhaps the greatest dogma of 
all.  Even if all of evolution is indeed true in the sense that it happened pretty 
much like scientists surmise, all of the 
anti-evolutionists/Deists/Christians/Creationists, can still take heart because there 
is absolutely nothing which I am aware of in the scientific literature which explains 
the rise of life from non-life, and in fact it is accepted scientific fact (by the 
scientists themselves) that a-biogenisis cannot occur.  SO. . .that means they still 
can't explain where life came from even if they can tell how it came to be so diverse.


On Wed, 19 April 2000, David Sutherland wrote:

>
>  The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!
>
> The size of this Conspiracy is enormous! Permeating all western thought from 
>religion, philosophy, ethics, science, astronomy, sociology, and so forth!
> Top-flight scientists have something to tell you about evolution. Such statements 
>will never be found in the popular magazines, alongside gorgeous paintings of ape-man 
>and Big Bangs and solemn pronouncements about millions of years for this rock and 
>that fish. Instead they are generally reserved only for professional books and 
>journals.
>
> Most scientists are working in very narrow fields; they do not see the overall 
>picture, and assume, even though their field does not prove evolution, that perhaps 
>other areas of science probably vindicate it. They are well-meaning men. The 
>biologists and geneticists know their facts, and research does not prove evolution, 
>but assume that geology does. The geologists know their field does not prove 
>evolution, but hope that the biologists and geneticists have proven it. Those who do 
>know the facts, fear to disclose them to the general public, lest they be fired. But 
>they do write articles in their own professional journals and books, condemning 
>evolutionary theory.
>
> Included below are a number of admissions by leading evolutionists of earlier 
>decades, such as *Charles Darwin, *Austin Clark, or *Fred Hoyle. The truth is that 
>evolutionists cannot make scientific facts fit the theory.
>
> An asterisk ( * ) by a name indicates that person is not known to be a creationist.
>
> “The Darwinian theory of descent has not a single fact to confirm it in the realm of 
>nature. It is not the result of scientific research, but purely the product of 
>imagination.”—*Dr. Fleischman [Erlangen zoologist].
>
> “It is almost invariably assumed that animals with bodies composed of a single cell 
>represent the primitive animals from which all others derived. They are commonly 
>supposed to have preceded all other animal types in their appearance. There is not 
>the slightest basis for this assumption.”—*Austin Clark, The New Evolution (1930), 
>pp. 235-236.
>
> “The hypothesis that life has developed from inorganic matter is, at present, still 
>an article of faith.”—*J.W.N. Sullivan, The Limitations of Science (1933), p. 95.
>
> “Where are we when presented with the mystery of life? We find ourselves facing a 
>granite wall which we have not even chipped . . We know virtually nothing of growth, 
>nothing of life.”—*W. Kaempffert, “The Greatest Mystery of All: The Secret of Life,” 
>New York Times.
>
> “ ‘The theory of evolution is totally inadequate to explain the origin and 
>manifestation of the inorganic world.’ “—Sir John Ambrose Fleming, F.R.S., quoted in 
>H. Enoch, Evolution or Creation (1966), p. 91 [discoverer of the thermionic valve].
>
> “I think, however, that we must go further than this and admit that the only 
>acceptable explanation is creation. I know that this is anathema to physicists, as 
>indeed it is to me, but we must not reject a theory that we do not like if the 
>experimental evidence supports it.”—*H. Lipson, “A Physicist Looks at Evolution,” 
>Physics Bulletin, 31 (1980), p. 138.
>
> “I am not satisfied that Darwin proved his point or that his influence in scientific 
>and public thinking has been beneficial . . the success of Darwinism was accomplished 
>by a decline in scientific integrity.”—*W.R. Thompson, Introduction to *Charles 
>Darwin’s, Origin of the Species [Canadian scientist].
>
> “One of the determining forces of scientism was a fantastic accidental imagination 
>which could explain every irregularity in the solar system without explanation, leap 
>the gaps in the atomic series without evidence [a gap required by the Big Bang 
>theory], postulate the discovery of fossils which have never been discovered, and 
>prophesy the su

Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[ThePiedPiper]

Arthur C. Clarke is half baked in the light of
todays knowledge.

But I guess they and their Communist ideas are right
they are genetically not able to evolve or learn.

No wonder Communist want to acquire and (try to)
capitalize on what the Jones have.  They are not
capable of seeing that they MIGHT be able to
earn something themselves so they have to take it
from someone else.

that if someone were telepathic that the brain
would atrophy and electric connections would not
be made to learn or think on it's own.
When asked if they want brains or telepathy
you can tell which one they chose. . .
But they can just use someone else's brain?
About as good as having a computer or a database
program, only as good as the queries that you format
or that someone else has left you.
Telepaths that can do original thinking?  Ha!!
They are not wired right,
they are not in their right brains or in their left brains
since their brains have left.

By the way evolution would be right since telepathic
brains would atrophy from not being used.
If you can lose something then I guess you should
be able to acquire it.  Evolve it if you think it is
needed?

De-Evolution of the Human Race.




Tara wrote:
>
> There is no proof of the existence of human evolution. I learned that in a
> study of archeology in university. I wouldn't even bother to respond to a
> half baked idiot who assumes the formatted position and claims the rest of
> us are mindless. Wow, you are so ignorant to everyone. Is it a psychiatic
> problem?
>
> Tara
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
> Behalf Of Nurev Ind Research
> Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 11:34 PM
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!
>
> Gavin Phillips wrote:
> >
> > Many excellent quotations. Darwinian evolution has been repeatedly
> discredited by several good books documenting the litany of missing chains
> (not links).
> >
> > It is the holy grail of mainstream science to think that they are able to
> explain the genesis of humankind. Evolution doesn't come close, but they
> will desperately cling to it untill they can conjure up another theory which
> allows them to explain everything scientifically.
> >
> > Darwiniian macro-evolution is a religion. It has never been observed or
> repeated in a laboratory. Total nonsense. Gavin.
> ===
>
> This is the dumbest thing I've ever seen you write.
> I won't even bother to respond to such an absurdity,
> because to do so might lead some half baked idiot to
> think that there are two sides to this argument, when
> there is no argument at all.
>
> Whatever happened to your mind?
>
> Joshua2
>
> http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
> DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
> ==
> CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
> screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are sordid
> matters
> and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
> frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
> spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
> gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
> be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
> nazi's need not apply.
>
> Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.
> 
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>
> Om

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are sordid
matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and

Re: [CTRL] PLEASE POST IN TEXT FORMAT ONLY! (WAS: Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!)

[ThePiedPiper]

As a research professional I like to have the citations
of what ever propaganda is being fed to me.  If it is
good I like being able to use those citations when
I write my own essays.  Normal an web page is easy to
read.  As far as it's capability of having a virus -
from now on I will put a dis-claimer on a post that it
is a web page and allow a person the choice of opening it.

My netscape will not allow me to paste the text from a
FRAME page on it in the original formatting.  I do not have
the time to re-do formatting.  This also comes into play in
another way since I have two lists that come in through
my Explorer browser and If I want to post those
First I have to send it to my mailbox that is tied to my
Netscape browser then I have to reformat to send it.
to give you some idea of what happens when I type a full line
000
this email program does not allow it, but it will send a web page in
original
I will preface it with a HTML tag in the subject line and attempt to
make sure that I never send anything like that one.
I could not read it either.
ThePiedPiper

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are sordid
matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[Tara]

There is no proof of the existence of human evolution. I learned that in a
study of archeology in university. I wouldn't even bother to respond to a
half baked idiot who assumes the formatted position and claims the rest of
us are mindless. Wow, you are so ignorant to everyone. Is it a psychiatic
problem?

Tara

-Original Message-
From: Conspiracy Theory Research List [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On
Behalf Of Nurev Ind Research
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 11:34 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!


Gavin Phillips wrote:
>
> Many excellent quotations. Darwinian evolution has been repeatedly
discredited by several good books documenting the litany of missing chains
(not links).
>
> It is the holy grail of mainstream science to think that they are able to
explain the genesis of humankind. Evolution doesn't come close, but they
will desperately cling to it untill they can conjure up another theory which
allows them to explain everything scientifically.
>
> Darwiniian macro-evolution is a religion. It has never been observed or
repeated in a laboratory. Total nonsense. Gavin.
===


This is the dumbest thing I've ever seen you write.
I won't even bother to respond to such an absurdity,
because to do so might lead some half baked idiot to
think that there are two sides to this argument, when
there is no argument at all.

Whatever happened to your mind?

Joshua2

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are sordid
matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/ctrl.html">Archives of
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Om

Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[Nurev Ind Research]

Gavin Phillips wrote:
>
> Many excellent quotations. Darwinian evolution has been repeatedly discredited by 
>several good books documenting the litany of missing chains (not links).
>
> It is the holy grail of mainstream science to think that they are able to explain 
>the genesis of humankind. Evolution doesn't come close, but they will desperately 
>cling to it untill they can conjure up another theory which allows them to explain 
>everything scientifically.
>
> Darwiniian macro-evolution is a religion. It has never been observed or repeated in 
>a laboratory. Total nonsense. Gavin.
===


This is the dumbest thing I've ever seen you write.
I won't even bother to respond to such an absurdity,
because to do so might lead some half baked idiot to
think that there are two sides to this argument, when
there is no argument at all.

Whatever happened to your mind?

Joshua2

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are sordid
matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
http://home.ease.lsoft.com/archives/CTRL.html
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Om

[CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[Gavin Phillips]

Many excellent quotations. Darwinian evolution has been repeatedly discredited by 
several good books documenting the litany of missing chains (not links).

It is the holy grail of mainstream science to think that they are able to explain the 
genesis of humankind. Evolution doesn't come close, but they will desperately cling to 
it untill they can conjure up another theory which allows them to explain everything 
scientifically.

Darwiniian macro-evolution is a religion. It has never been observed or repeated in a 
laboratory. Total nonsense. Gavin.

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are sordid
matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

[CTRL] PLEASE POST IN TEXT FORMAT ONLY! (WAS: Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!)

[Robert F. Tatman]

Let me extend this request to ALL members of CTRL. PLEASE, people, post ONLY
in *text format*. Sure, I use Outlook Express and can read HTML messages
fine...much better, obviously, than Tenorlove and the others who use
Web-based mail such as Yahoo! and Hotmail. But as an IT professional, I also
know that HTML messages can carry viruses, especially if you use Outlook 9x
or 2000 and have enabled Word as your e-mail editor. There are also
Javascript and VBScript "viruses" that can travel directly in HTML, as well
as nasty Java applets that might as well be viruses. It's not simply a
matter of politeness, although that *is* a factor in my request. It's really
a matter of information hygiene--keeping your e-mail free of anything that
can, even potentially, harm someone else's system.

Please try to follow these two basic rules:
1. Always use text format. Not everyone has a mail program that can handle
HTML or fancy formatting.
2. Don't use attachments or URLs when you want to share something with the
list. Copy and paste the text into a message, and post *that*. (AOL users,
could you please try to keep that in mind? I know AOL doesn't make it easy,
but it really would help if you could *paste* text into your messages
instead of just forwarding it as an attachment.)

Thanks for helping

Bob

- Original Message -
From: "Tenorlove" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 9:00 PM
Subject: Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!


> Could the person who posted this please re-post in PLAIN TEXT? It's
> impossible to read in HTML, the type is way too small and fuzzy. Thanks
> in advance.
>
> Tenorlove
>

http://www.ctrl.org/">www.ctrl.org
DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are sordid
matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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Om

Re: [CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[Tenorlove]

Could the person who posted this please re-post in PLAIN TEXT? It's
impossible to read in HTML, the type is way too small and fuzzy. Thanks
in advance.

Tenorlove

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DECLARATION & DISCLAIMER
==
CTRL is a discussion & informational exchange list. Proselytizing propagandic
screeds are unwelcomed. Substance—not soap-boxing—please!  These are sordid
matters
and 'conspiracy theory'—with its many half-truths, misdirections and outright
frauds—is used politically by different groups with major and minor effects
spread throughout the spectrum of time and thought. That being said, CTRL
gives no endorsement to the validity of posts, and always suggests to readers;
be wary of what you read. CTRL gives no credence to Holocaust denial and
nazi's need not apply.

Let us please be civil and as always, Caveat Lector.

Archives Available at:
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[CTRL] The MYTH of EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!

[David Sutherland]

 The MYTH of 
EVOLUTION - SCIENTISTS SPEAK!
 
The size of this 
Conspiracy is enormous! Permeating all western thought from religion, 
philosophy, ethics, science, astronomy, sociology, and so 
forth!

Top-flight 
scientists have something to tell you about evolution. Such statements will 
never be found in the popular magazines, alongside gorgeous paintings of ape-man 
and Big Bangs and solemn pronouncements about millions of years for this rock 
and that fish. Instead they are generally reserved only for professional books 
and journals. 

Most 
scientists are working in very narrow fields; they do not see the overall 
picture, and assume, even though their field does not prove evolution, that 
perhaps other areas of science probably vindicate it. They are well-meaning men. 
The biologists and geneticists know their facts, and research does not prove 
evolution, but assume that geology does. The geologists know their field does 
not prove evolution, but hope that the biologists and geneticists have proven 
it. Those who do know the facts, fear to disclose them to the general public, 
lest they be fired. But they do write articles in their own professional 
journals and books, condemning evolutionary theory. 
Included 
below are a number of admissions by leading evolutionists of earlier decades, 
such as *Charles Darwin, *Austin Clark, or *Fred Hoyle. The truth is that 
evolutionists cannot make scientific facts fit the 
theory. 

An 
asterisk ( * ) by a name indicates that person is not known to be a creationist. 

“The 
Darwinian theory of descent has not a single fact to confirm it in the realm of 
nature. It is not the result of scientific research, but purely the product of 
imagination.”—*Dr. Fleischman [Erlangen zoologist]. 

“It is 
almost invariably assumed that animals with bodies composed of a single cell 
represent the primitive animals from which all others derived. They are commonly 
supposed to have preceded all other animal types in their appearance. There is 
not the slightest basis for this assumption.”—*Austin Clark, The New 
Evolution (1930), pp. 235-236. 
“The 
hypothesis that life has developed from inorganic matter is, at present, still 
an article of faith.”—*J.W.N. Sullivan, The Limitations of Science (1933), p. 
95. 
“Where 
are we when presented with the mystery of life? We find ourselves facing a 
granite wall which we have not even chipped . . We know virtually nothing of 
growth, nothing of life.”—*W. Kaempffert, “The Greatest Mystery of All: The 
Secret of Life,” New York Times. 
“ ‘The 
theory of evolution is totally inadequate to explain the origin and 
manifestation of the inorganic world.’ “—Sir John Ambrose Fleming, F.R.S., 
quoted in H. Enoch, Evolution or Creation (1966), p. 91 [discoverer of the 
thermionic valve]. 
“I think, 
however, that we must go further than this and admit that the only acceptable 
explanation is creation. I know that this is anathema to physicists, as indeed 
it is to me, but we must not reject a theory that we do not like if the 
experimental evidence supports it.”—*H. Lipson, “A Physicist Looks at 
Evolution,” Physics Bulletin, 31 (1980), p. 138. 
“I am not 
satisfied that Darwin proved his point or that his influence in scientific and 
public thinking has been beneficial . . the success of Darwinism was 
accomplished by a decline in scientific integrity.”—*W.R. Thompson, 
Introduction to *Charles Darwin’s, Origin of the Species [Canadian 
scientist]. 
“One of 
the determining forces of scientism was a fantastic accidental imagination which 
could explain every irregularity in the solar system without explanation, leap 
the gaps in the atomic series without evidence [a gap required by the Big Bang 
theory], postulate the discovery of fossils which have never been discovered, 
and prophesy the success of breeding experiments which have never succeeded. Of 
this kind of science it might truly be said that it was ‘knowledge falsely so 
called.’ “—*David C.C. Watson, The Great Brain Robbery (1976). 

“The hold 
of the evolutionary paradigm [theoretical system] is so powerful that an idea 
which is more like a principle of medieval astrology than a serious twentieth 
century scientific theory has become a reality for evolutionary 
biologists.”—*Michael Denton, Evolution: A Theory in Crisis (1985), p. 306 
[Australian molecular biologist]. 
“The 
particular truth is simply that we have no reliable evidence as to the 
evolutionary sequence . . One can find qualified professional arguments for any 
group being the descendant of almost any other.”—J. Bonner, “Book Review,” 
American Scientist, 49:1961, p. 240. 
“It was 
because Darwinian theory broke man’s link with God and set him adrift in a 
cosmos without purpose or end that its impact was so fundamental. No other 
intellectual revolution in modern times . . so profoundly affected the way men 
viewed themselves and their place in the universe.”—*Michael Denton, 
Evolution: A Theory in Crisis (