Re: Echelon-like...

[Sarad AV]

hi,

> > The government knows exactly what it's doing. It
> wants to discourage the use of encryption by any
> means necessary, because of sheer numbers.

Does n't govt intervension always increase the
numbers?

> > Basically, the more messages that are encypted,
> the more hardware (and therefore $$$) will be needed
> to decrypt them.
> > Therefore, the only way they can stay ahead of the
> game is to keep the numbers as low as possible, so
> they can continue to "outspend" the problem.

Why don't we have encrypted spams over the internet
rather than plain text spam ?Thats one way we can all
benefit frm spam.

 


> The US Government has pretty much given up on
> restricting crypto
> exports. 

Why did that happen?


Regards Sarath.

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

One time pads

[Sarad AV]

hi,

An extract frm this months cryptogram goes as below.


On the other hand, if you ever find a product that
actually uses a one-time pad, it is almost certainly
unusable and/or insecure.
So, let me summarize.  One-time pads are useless for
all but very specialized applications, primarily
historical and non-computer.  And almost any system
that uses a one-time pad is insecure.  It will claim 
to use a one-time pad, but actually use a two-time pad
(oops).  Or it will claims to use a one-time pad, but
actually use a steam cipher.  Or it will use a
one-time pad, but won't deal with message
re-snchronization and re-transmission attacks.  Or it
will ignore 
message authentication, and be susceptible to
bit-flipping attacks and 
the like.  Or it will fall prey to keystream reuse
attacks.  Etc., 
etc., etc.
-

Though it has a large key length greater than or equal
to the plain text,why would it be insecure if we can
use a good pseudo random number generators,store the
bits produced on a taper proof medium.

how about this way

P=Plain text 
C=Cipher text 
R=Pseudo random bits(the pad)

To transmit a secret frm point A to Point B 

Choose ur agent-Send cipher text(C) to B. 
If( Cipher text C is intercepted,do not send R.) 

without R, C cannot be decrypted 

Else(If C is securely transmitted to point B,choose an
agent and send R to point B) 

If R is intercepted the secret remains safe,since they
donot have C. 
If initially C was intercepted ,R is not send,another
pad is chosen. 

It is assumed that the agent is trust worthy.Also the
agent has to send receipt 
for the safe arrival of C at point B before R is
transmitted. 
It is also assumed that cryptographical secure pseudo
random numbers are use. 


Cryptography does not address the problem of dishonest
users-does it?

The difficulty for attaining highest security is more.

why do we always have to rely on the internet for
sending the pad?If it is physically carried to the
receiver we can say for sure if P or R is intercepted.


can some one answer the issues involved that one time
pads is not a good choice.
Thank you

Regards Sarath.

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

Non linear feeback registers

[Sarad AV]

hi,


For the  output produced by ever non-linear shift feed
back register does there exist a minimum period linear
shift register that can mimic the output of a non
linear shift feed back register?If yes,how do we find
out the tap sequence of the minimum period  LSFR which
represents the  non linear shift feed back register?

Thank you.

Regards Sarath


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

Independence and redundncy Re: XORing bits to eliminate skew

[Sarad AV]

hi,

 
One more query on the same topic.

>Now add a second bit. assume that the bits are (i)
> and (ii) so we know
> that the probability of (i) being 1 is 0.5-e and and
> being 0 is 0.5+e
> (there isn't a bias btw in that notation - e could
> be negative)
> 
> so all the possible combinations are
> 
> P(i=1, ii=1) =(0.5-e)(0.5-e)
> P(i=1, ii=0) =(0.5-e)(0.5+e)
> P(i=0, ii=1) =(0.5+e)(0.5-e)
> P(i=0, ii=0) =(0.5+e)(0.5+e)

Two events E1 and E2 are said to be independent,if
P(E1(intersection)E2)=P(E1).P(E2)

As in the above case we assume that the bits under xor
are independent.

if the inputs are frm different sources then we
consider them independent.

what about the following case.

i open any two text files in binary mode and xor 1 st
bit of file 1 with file 2,2 nd bit with 2 nd bit with
second bit and so on.

The rate of english varies between 1.0 bit /letter &
1.5 bit/letter for large values of N.

absolute rate of english is R=log(26)base 2=4.7
bits/letter

There is lot of redundancy in the language,0.6 to 0.85
percent redundancy.

Since in ASCII we use 8 bits to represent english
alphabets,the redundancy is 8-1.3=6.7 bits/charecter
of redundancy.

Since in both files opened,english charecters are
represented in the same set of ASCII charecters.

there is redundancy in both the files.
Does that mean that such bits we xor are not
independent?

Regards Sarath.




--- David Howe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> at Thursday, October 17, 2002 4:38 PM, Sarad AV
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> was seen to say:
> > He wanted to know how I was able to do XOR on P(0)
> and
> > P(1) when xor is defined only on binary digits.
> you don't.
> 
> P(x) is a probability of digit x in the output.
> ideally, P(0)=P(1)=0.5
> (obviously in binary, only 0 and 1 are defined, so
> they are the only two
> possible outcomes.
> Now assume that one output (1 say) is more probable
> than the other. If
> this is true, you can define some value of
> probability (e) that is the
> amount a given outcome is more or less probable than
> the ideal.
> Now add a second bit. assume that the bits are (i)
> and (ii) so we know
> that the probability of (i) being 1 is 0.5-e and and
> being 0 is 0.5+e
> (there isn't a bias btw in that notation - e could
> be negative)
> 
> so all the possible combinations are
> 
> P(i=1, ii=1) =(0.5-e)(0.5-e)
> P(i=1, ii=0) =(0.5-e)(0.5+e)
> P(i=0, ii=1) =(0.5+e)(0.5-e)
> P(i=0, ii=0) =(0.5+e)(0.5+e)
> 
> but of course if you XOR (i) and (ii) together, then
> (i=1, ii=1) = 0
> (i=1, ii=0) = 1
> (i=0, ii=1) = 1
> (i=0, ii=0) = 0
> 
> collecting identical outputs allows you to say
> 
> P(0)=P(i=1, ii=1)+P(i=0, ii=0) =
> (0.5-e)(0.5-e)+(0.5+e)(0.5+e)
> P(1) P(i=1, ii=0) + P(i=0, ii=1) =
> (0.5-e)(0.5+e)+(0.5+e)(0.5-e)
> 
> reducing P(0) as in the example you gave gives you
> the probability of
> P(0) being 0.5+(2*(e^2))
> 
> so the answer is - you don't ever apply XOR to
> anything but binary - you
> do straight algebraic math on the *probabilities* of
> a given output (0
> or 1)
> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

Random numbers fall mainly on the plane

[Sarad AV]

hi,


Does any one have a reference to the actual paper-

Random Numbers Fall Mainly in the Planes. Proceedings
of the National Academy of Science (USA) 61
(September): 25-28


Thank You.

Regards Sarath.


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Y! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your web site
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/

XORing bits to eliminate skew

[Sarad AV]

hi,

In the book on Applied Cryptography by Bruce
Schenier,it goes like this...


let p(0) be the probability of occurance of 0
and p(1) be the probability od occurance of one.

let 
p(0)=0.5+e
p(1)=0.5-e

where e is the bias of the bit towards 0 or 1
ideally e=0 & P(0)=P(1)=0.5(no bias condition,ideal)

XORing 2 bits together yeilds

let ^ denote-to the power of
p(0)=(0.5+e)^2+(0.5-e)^2=0.5+2*(e^2)

Xoring 4 bits together we get,

P(0)=0.5+((8*(e^4))

How are these results obtained?

It is my understanding that the result is obtained
because

a=p(0)=0.5+e
b=p(1)=0.5-e

If ~ denotes negation,~a means negation of a.
Xor of 2 bits a & b is  y=~a.b+a.~b


P(0)=(0.5-e)(0.5-e) + (0.5+e)(0.5+e)

P(0)=(0.5-e)^2 + (0.5+e)^2
P(0)=0.5+(2*(e^2))

and similarly by xoring 4 bits we get

P(0)=0.5+((8*(e^4))

This is how I understand this result is obtained.

My teacher how ever asked me,how I was possible to do
such an arithmetic when xor is defined only for binary
digits (0 and 1).

He wanted to know how I was able to do XOR on P(0) and
P(1) when xor is defined only on binary digits.




I am stumped now and may be i am making a mistake some
where.

how was the actual result  shown below obtained?

XORing 2 bits together 

p(0)=(0.5+e)^2+(0.5-e)^2=0.5+2*(e^2)

Xoring 4 bits together ,

P(0)=0.5+((8*(e^4))


Pls help.
thank you very much

Regards Sarath.



__
Do you Yahoo!?
Faith Hill - Exclusive Performances, Videos & More
http://faith.yahoo.com

Seebeck effecte: fuel cells on planes, why bother?

[Sarad AV]

hi,

It just makes me wonder of seebeck effect, on an
aeroplane if you demand a cup of hot water,a cup of
chilled wate and have connecting wires will it
generate enough power to drive an explosive?

Regards Sarath.



--- Mark Szewczul <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> on AA, if you look down between the seats, on the
> armrest base, there is a little connector there that
> gives out 12V and looks remarkably like the
> cigarette
> lighter plug in your car!  Use that people..and
> pressure your airlines to install more (First class
> gets the AC plug to boot), or threaten them that as
> you refill your fuelcel in flight, that the bumpy
> ride
> will make you spill some and people will think you
> are
> trying to start a fire.  
> HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
> http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/
> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/

Doubt on Hill Cipher

[Sarad AV]

hi,

I was going through Hill Ciphers at
http://www.math.ohiou.edu/~qvu/crypto/6.html

the very last line on the page regarding finding the
inverse of the matrix

A comma is placed to prevent space formating.
k*k(inverse)=

131,  78  
182, 105 //multiplication leads to 105

There is a small typo there A(2,2) is 105 and not 104.

Regarding find k(inverse) it is unclear how
they get
7,  21
22, 3

since
http://mathworld.wolfram.com/MatrixInverse.html
I was expecting k(inverse) to be
7,-5 
-4,3

which is the actual key here?

both seem to be right,since both holds
k*k(inverse)=identity matrix

pls help.

Regards Sarath.



__
Do you Yahoo!?
HotJobs - Search new jobs daily now
http://hotjobs.yahoo.com/

Re: New Protection for 802.11

[Sarad AV]

hi,

Wi fi customers are more paranoid than comparingly
ordinary web users who are not so concerened of their
security.
If we make a product,it should sell or the least a
large number of people should use it(personal
satisfaction),so it sells better with 'Wi Fi '
customers.

Regards Sarath.

--- "James A. Donald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --
> Reading the Wifi report,
> http://www.weca.net/OpenSection/pdf/Wi-
> Fi_Protected_Access_Overview.pdf 
> it seems their customers stampeded them and demanded
> that the
> security hole be fixed, fixed a damned lot sooner
> than they
> intended to fix it.
> 
> I am struck the contrast between the seemingly
> strong demand 
> for wifi security, compared to the almost complete
> absence of 
> demand for email security.
> 
> Why is it so? 
> 
> --digsig
>  James A. Donald
>  6YeGpsZR+nOTh/cGwvITnSR3TdzclVpR0+pr3YYQdkG
>  IWe4JFeDeor04Pxb96ZsQ7xX+JAwxSs8HQfoAeG5
>  4rQX6tgLhAvAwLjF+SXlRswSmphBhw4cOXLe9Y4r5
> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
http://launch.yahoo.com/u2

Doubt on triple torus

[Sarad AV]

hi,


with reference to

http://mathworld.wolfram.com/TripleTorus.html

Could some one pls explain how a triple torus can be
practically obtained from a sphere,I could understand
upto how a double torus can be obtained.

Triple Torus  has 3 holes but with reference to the
figure in the page is that a fourth hole at the
centre.
Thank you.

Regards Sarath.


__
Do you Yahoo!?
U2 on LAUNCH - Exclusive greatest hits videos
http://launch.yahoo.com/u2

Re: New Wi-Fi Security Scheme Allows DoS (fwd)

[Sarad AV]

hi,

>But there's a hitch: When WPA detects a break-in
>attempt, it shuts down the network for a minute and
>then restarts. During that time, legitimate users are
>off the air too. 


Unauthorised access can be taken off by setting fake
access points as such,whats the need for shutting down
the network?

Regards Sarath.


--- Jim Choate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>
http://www.extremetech.com/article2/0,3973,717170,00.asp
> 
> 
>  --
>
>

> 
> We don't see things as they are,
>  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> we see them as we are.  
> www.ssz.com
>  
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Anais Nin   
>  www.open-forge.org
> 
>
>

> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Re: Psuedo-Private Key -Methodology

[Sarad AV]

hi,

The methodology is very simple again.

'A'  uses a very strong crytographic algorithm which
would be forced out by rubber horse cryptanalysis
Now if Aice could give another key k` such that the 
cipher text (c) decrypts to another dummy plain
text(D) 
the secret police gets to read 
the dummy plain text(D) using the surrendered key k` 
without compramising the real plain text(P). 

goes like this. 
p=plain text 
c=cipher text 
D=dummy plain text 
k=oiginal key 
k`=dummy key. 

Now A encrypt using a good asymmetric key 
algorithm. 
Now A has cipher text C. 
Now A takes her Dummy plain text (D) and she, 
C (xor) D=k` 
Now to the secret police she can surrender k`. 
The secret police decrypts dummy plain text D as 
D=c(xor)k` 
She can now say that she used k` as one time pads to 
encrypt C. 

There is no way to prove that k` is not a valid key
unless 
they ever get hold of k. 

hOW ever as what is said,it doesn't look like it will
work.


Regards Sarath.

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Re: Psuedo-Private Key (eJazeera)

[Sarad AV]

hi,

I had suggested the same for an encryption product
called digisecret,this is what they had to say.

>Here is an example where hiding cipher text in cipher
text is ideal..

DigiSecret currently does not use assymmetric
algorithms. Besides this 
the introduction of this technique will mean that the
secret police 
will also know about this fact, so the person's
harrowing experience with the 
secret police will just be doubled: first they will
obtain the fake 
password and then the real one. Also it would not be
hard to track it on 
the algorithm diciphering level and to understand that
the message is not 
real.

Regards Data.

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus – Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Re: CDR: Re: A couple of book questions...(one of them about Completeness)

[Sarad AV]

hi,

--- Jim Choate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
hi,
> 
> On Sat, 30 Nov 2002, Peter Fairbrother wrote:
> 

> 
> > Godel didn't invent the term though, and may not
> have said "this is the/my
> > definition of completeness". I haven't read them
> for some time, and can't
> > remember. He may well have assumed his readers
> would already know it.

We can't define completeness.

> 
> Of course he didn't, he just made it irrelevant
> since you can't prove the
> truthfullness of all the propositions requird to
> prove completeness.


> 
> Bottom line, mathematics may be complete but until
> somebody invents a
> meta-mathematics broader than mathematics it will
> remain -an unprovable
> proposition within mathematics, even in principle.-
> 

Mathametics is always incomplete,always.
Regards Sarath.

> Adios.
> 
> 
>  --
>
>

> 
> We don't see things as they are,
>  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> we see them as we are.  
> www.ssz.com
>  
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Anais Nin   
>  www.open-forge.org
> 
>
>

> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Re: A couple of book questions...(one of them about Completeness)

[Sarad AV]

hi,

--- Jim Choate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> On Sun, 1 Dec 2002, Sarad AV wrote:
> 
> > We can't define completeness.
> 
> We can define it, as has been done.

okay,I get what you mean,thank you.
How ever how do you 'precisely' define completeness?

Regards Sarath.


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Question on P=NP

[Sarad AV]

hi,

Is the problem P=NP or not 'Decidable'.


Regards Sarath.

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Re: ...(one of them about Completeness)

[Sarad AV]

hi,

Thanks for the replies,a few more queries.

> Complete means that we can take any and all -legal-
> strings within that
> formalism and assign them -one of only two- truth
> values; True v False.
> 
> The fundamental problem is axiomatic. The rules
> define -all- statements as
> being -either true or false-, no other possibility
> is allowed -by
> principle-.

By principle of what?

> 
> We create two lists 'true' and 'false', we are
> -required- to put -any-
> string (or formula in Godel-speak, or 'sequence' and
> 'inside or outside'
> with regard to Cauchy Completeness) we write in one
> of these two, and
> only these two lists.
> 
> However, as Godel shows, we -can- write strings
> (some of them are quite
> simple which is what makes it so shocking) that we
> can't put in -either-
> of these lists.
> 
> There is -no- place to write it down. 

Isn't that the reason we call it 'undecidable',put it
in an undeciable list which is the truth.
We can actually write these symbols down,it will be
true for some and false for some

eg: If we say-For a context free grammar G, L(G) is
ambigious.This is true for some G and false for G,If
we ask a turing machine to solve this question,it
can't because there is no algorithm to determine the
statement is true or false. A function is turing
computable only if for every element in the domain,the
function's value can be computed with a Turing
machine.
The domain is important,for sime G we get True and
some G we get false.By the defenition of turing
complenetess,since we cannot show it is true or false
for every element in the domain,it is not turing
computable and hence undecidable.We can write down the
symbols but it does n't mean any thing.

Regards Sarath.



__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Re: A couple of book questions...(one of them about Completeness)

[Sarad AV]

hi,

> How ever how do you 'precisely' define
> completeness?
> 
>  There were a couple of examples in the message
> you replied to. There
> are different sorts of completeness as well. You
> might also look into some
> of the references I provided. 

Okay,I  ask a legitimate question,how do you argue it
is correct and precise,we can't,thats why it is
undefinable.

Regards Sarath.

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Re: CDR: Re: ...(one of them about Completeness)

[Sarad AV]

hi,

> 
> > Jim Choate says:
> >
> > > Godel's does -not- say mathematics is
> incomplete, it says we can't prove
> > > completeness -within- mathematics proper. To do
> so requires a
> > > meta-mathematics of some sort.


Mathametics is incomplete,other wise we would have
known every thing about every thing. From our
observation and experience we know that we don't know
every thing about every thing.Mathametics always has
to be incomplete. Showing that a set of mathametics as
complete does not mean that the whole of math is
complete.

Regards Sarath.

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Re: Extradition, Snatching, and the Danger of Traveling to Other Countries

[Sarad AV]

hi,

> All represive regiemes are short lived in a
> historical context.
The Taliban is still very much alive,when troops moved
into kabul there were no traces of the taliban.They
took what ever they wanted and were 'refugees'
sneaking out when the bombing started.They placed what
they needed ,every body else needed to see.Video tapes
of chemical weapon testing,which CNN released,another
free advertisement for the taliban  regime.Now all
eyes are on iraq,war games being conducted so that the
world does not question man or machine movement.Some
regimes do stay for a while,how sucessful they are
depends on how well they come back after their fall.


> 
> When we can't vote, we can fight.  So far the number
> of horror
> stories is small.  But when everyone has a personal
> friend or
> relative that's been shot, abused, tortured or even
> just roughed
> up - then they'll know they might be next.  And they
> might vote to change
> things.  

You can't vote your choice when you have gun pointed
at the back of your head.

So from a purely machivellian perspective,
> the faster
> "they" become more repressive and the more people
> "they" harm,
> the faster things will change.
 
It hasn't happened for the past 50 years.

> We just have a few years of hell to go thru, that's
> all.

for the u.s,it may be a few years,for the rest of the
world,who knows.

Regards Sarath.


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Re: Extradition, Snatching, and the Danger of Traveling to Other Countries

[Sarad AV]

hi,

--- Mike Rosing <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>And who supports whom to prevent extermination.

Firstly,they cannot be exterminated.There is no proof
of identity as we may have in our countries and no
body will ask for it either,since most don't have one.
The Taliban would have cut their beard and hair and
mixed up with civilian population,while troops can go
searching for orthodox civilians with a taliban
look,making it hard to hunt them down.Once/if the
international troops leave afghan,there are over
hundred factions,who will keep fighting among
themselves for 'land' and the taliban will be back.


Regards Sarath.

> On Fri, 13 Dec 2002, Sarad AV wrote:
> 
> > The Taliban is still very much alive,when troops
> moved
> > into kabul there were no traces of the
> taliban.They
> > took what ever they wanted and were 'refugees'
> > sneaking out when the bombing started.They placed
> what
> > they needed ,every body else needed to see.Video
> tapes
> > of chemical weapon testing,which CNN
> released,another
> > free advertisement for the taliban  regime.Now all
> > eyes are on iraq,war games being conducted so that
> the
> > world does not question man or machine
> movement.Some
> > regimes do stay for a while,how sucessful they are
> > depends on how well they come back after their
> fall.
> 

 

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Re: Extradition, Snatching, and the Danger of Traveling to Other Countries

[Sarad AV]

hi,

--- "James A. Donald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> US policy was to restore the status quo ante in
> Afghanistan, 
> put things back the way they were before the Soviet
> invasion. 

How does that make things better for  'afghan'
people,after all the bombing done on their home land?

The future 
> of Afghanistan will probably be no less violent than
> it was 
> before the Soviet invasion, but no more violent that
> it was 
> before the Soviet invasion. 

Thats the only thing US seems to be doing  for afghani
people after all their promises.The US foreign policy
is disliked world wide.

Regards Sarath.

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Re: CRYPTO-GRAM, December 15, 2002

[Sarad AV]

hi,

> Mr. Scheiner was always a bozo, 

If he is such a bozo,why are n't many of those saying
this not as sucessful as he is?

Mr. Sheiner's book on applied cryptography is a beauty
for a beginer.

--- Sleeping Vayu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 
> Mr. Scheiner was always a bozo, for those who
> actually know him firsthand. His main talent was
> creating an extremely successful crypto-celebrity
> image at the opportune moment, boosting the sales of
> his under-mediocre "Applied Cryptography" (not to be
> confused with the excellent "Handbook of Applied
> Cryptography" by Alfred Menezes) and consulting
> business for his company.
 
 
 
> In business dealings, when hired as consultant, he
> was extremely unreliable and unprofessional. In
> direct contact he failed to deliver expertize,
> rising possibility that he was simply a frontman for
> actual experts. His analysis was pompous and most of
> the time outright wrong.
> 
Of course no body remembers the A to Z of cryptography
to give instant expertise all the time.


Regards Sarath.


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

re:constant encryped stream

[Sarad AV]

hi,


>Nothing serious, just throwing a quick thought out...

>It has been mentioned that you should always use
>crypto. If you wait 
>until
>you actually have something private to send, then an
>adversary will 
>know
>exactly which message is important.
Don't encrypt,post it by snail mail.I remember reading
this in pgp's help document.
It addresses why we glue over our envelope and seal
it.It ofcourse is concealing(for the govt) and privacy
(for the user).The govt. never asks letters not to be
glued and sealed because of the vast majority of
people using it.
But at the slightest at the use of encryption will
raise their brows.

This issue can only be fully solved when the vast
majority of people begin using encryption.

Encrypted spam wouldn't be a bad idea either.

Regards Sarath.

 Encrypting >everything gives equal
>suspicion to each message and nobody has the
>resources to attack all of 
>your
>mail.

>So, I was thinking that rather than just encrypt each
>message, why not 
>just
>keep a constant encrypted stream open? So, even when
>you are asleep,
>computers at each node are bombarding each other with
>encrypted "junk"
>files. Your noise to signal ratio would be
phenomenal.
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Re:Hullabo

[Sarad AV]

hi,


> > "Be the change you wish to see in the world"
> > -Mahatma Gandhi
 
> So how we gonna change the world dude?

Arise the masses,how he did that-I have no clue.How
ever he did that in the 1940's when the only method of
mass communication was radio(british controlled) and
new paper(again british controlled).To bring together
a diverse,multilingual,multicultural society like
India was never easy.

If we can seriously figure that out-we may change the
world :)

Regards Sarath

 
> Patience, persistence, truth,
> Dr. mike


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Re: Hullabo

[Sarad AV]

--- Tim May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> > Arise the masses,how he did that-I have no
> clue.How
> > ever he did that in the 1940's when the only
> method of
> > mass communication was radio(british controlled)
> and
> > new paper(again british controlled).To bring
> together
> > a diverse,multilingual,multicultural society like
> > India was never easy.
> 
> Is this some kind of Indian raghead/Swami humor?

Its part of a big  jigsaw puzzle-with enough time and
effort you will come to know.

> 
> Gandhi didn't "bring together" anything. The country
> split into at 
> least three pieces after he got the Western
> government of the British 
> thrown out.

Alaska was bought by  US from Russia for $'s,wasn't
it?The US has lot of money,while many others don't.


> 
> All that he ensured was that his particular bunch
> would control the 
> whip hand.

You are free to beleive what you wish to beleive.


Merry Xmas and happy new year to all.

Regards Sarath.


> 
> 
> --Tim May, Citizen-unit of of the once free United
> States
> " The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to
> time with the 
> blood of patriots & tyrants. "--Thomas Jefferson,
> 1787
> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Re: Many Worlds Version of Fermi Paradox

[Sarad AV]

hi,

A few queries.

Does a paradox ever help in understanding any thing?
We define a paradox  on a base of rules we want to
prove.

Ok,let me pick an example.



We make a paradox over a statement.

This i found on the net

The following is an implication that the Oracle does
not exist. 
1.Someone introduces Gödel to a UTM, a machine that is
supposed to be a Universal Truth Machine, capable of
correctly answering any question at all. 
2.Gödel asks for the program and the circuit design of
the UTM. The program may be complicated, but it can
only be finitely long. Call the program P(UTM) for
Program of the Universal Truth Machine. 
3: Gödel writes out the following sentence: "The
machine constructed on the basis of the program P(UTM)
will never say that this sentence is true." Call this
sentence G. G is equivalent to: "UTM will never say G
is true." 
4:Now Gödel asks UTM whether G is true or not. 
5:If UTM says G is true, then "UTM will never say G is
true" is false. If "UTM will never say G is true" is
false, then G is false (since G = "UTM will never say
G is true"). So if UTM says G is true, then G is in
fact false, and UTM has made a false statement. So UTM
will never say that G is true, since UTM makes only
true statements. 
6:We have established that UTM will never say G is
true. So "UTM will never say G is true" is in fact a
true statement. So G is true (since G = "UTM will
never say G is true"). 
"I know a truth that UTM can never utter," Gödel says.
"I know that G is true. UTM is not truly universal." 


Firstly if you see the following statements are
consistent for both positive and negative logic.
The question is it in a formal system,since we don't
have paradoexes in a formal system.Any formal system
is consistent, i.e. there is no proposition that can
be proved true by one sequence of steps and false by
another, equally valid argument.

Secondly,how do we define the oracle.If I say an
oracle is one who knows every thing about every thing.

You may not agree-you may come with your own 
defenition of an oracle,some one else will come with a
different defenition of the oracle.

With my defenition of the oracle-the above set of
statements showing that the oracle does not exist is
true.If you define oracle in a different manner-the
statements shown above may not lead to the conclusion
that "Oracle does not exist".

Its how I define the oracle and how I put the
statements which give me the amswer I want.Anybody can
do that and come with a consistent system.

We have to see that if all over defenitions and
statements fall in a formal system,which we *donot*.We
know that the oracle problem is undecidable,yet the
above statements showed that the oracle doesnot
exist-"in the domain in which the oracle was defined
and statements over it."
Same is for all paradoxes-they are only consistant in
the small domain they are defined-other wise they are
undecidable in a formal system over a larger domain.So
paradoxes doesn't say any thing.when we assign a sense
to a paradox,it stops becoming a paradox but is only
true for its set of defenitions and statements. 

Its also worth noting  paradoxes try to make their
point by the method of falsification rather than proof
by contradiction.

Regards Sarath.




--- Tim May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Monday, December 30, 2002, at 01:18  PM, Jesse
> Mazer wrote:
> 
> > Hal Finney wrote:
> >
> >> One correction, there are no known problems which
> take exponential 
> >> time
> >> but which can be checked in polynomial time.  If
> such a problem could 
> >> be
> >> found it would prove that P != NP, one of the
> greatest unsolved 
> >> problems
> >> in computability theory.
> >
> > Whoops, I've heard of the P=NP problem but I guess
> I was confused 
> > about what it meant. But there are some problems
> where candidate 
> > solutions can be checked much faster than new
> solutions can be 
> > generated, no? If you want to know whether a
> number can be factorized 
> > it's easy to check candidate factors, for example,
> although if the 
> > answer is that it cannot be factorized because the
> number is prime I 
> > guess there'd be no fast way to check if that
> answer is correct.
> 
> Factoring is not known to be in NP (the so-called
> "NP-complete" class 
> of problems...solve on in P time and you've solved
> them all!).
> 
> The example I favor is the Hamiltonian cycle/circuit
> problem: find a 
> path through a set of linked nodes (cities) which
> passes through each 
> node once and only once. All of the known solutions
> to an arbitrary 
> Hamiltonian cycle problem are exponential in time
> (in number of nodes). 
> For example, for 5 cities there are at most 120
> possible paths, so this 
> is an easy one. But for 50 cities there are as many
> as 49!/2 possible 
> paths (how many, exactly, depends on the links
> between the cities, with 
> not every city having all possible links to other
> cities). For a mere 
> 100 cities, the number of routes to consider is
> l

re:constant encryped stream

[Sarad AV]

hi,

Thank you for the reply.

> they didn't really explain why; I think it was
> leftover
> regulations from wartime censorship during World War
> II
> or the Korean Police Action.

I think so.


> 
> Also, in the US, the police can request a "mail
> cover"
> (which means recording who all your snail mail is
> from)
> with much less legal formality than a search
> warrant,
> and if they get a warrant to open all your incoming
> mail,
> I don't think they're required to notify you.

We don't have such a system in india-it is pretty
transparent.
 
> >But at the slightest at the use of encryption will
> >raise their brows.
> >This issue can only be fully solved when the vast
> >majority of people begin using encryption.
> >
> >Encrypted spam wouldn't be a bad idea either.
> 
> (Ideally they'd encrypt all of the spam :-)
> 
> Actually, if you insisted on all your mail being
> encrypted,
> that would cut down significantly on spam,
> because the amount of individual work per message
> required to encrypt something is significantly
> higher
> than the work required to just email it,
> which can scale badly and can also increase the
> traceability of spam (by watching who downloads
> large numbers of keys from keyservers, for
> instance.)

What about just making your own key pair and not
putting it on any key server.The govt will have enough
reason that the keys were communicated by other means
than putting it on a key server and they will still
have be interested in it,making key pairs is not a
hard task,if spammers have utilities like pgp,even
spammers can do that.So spammers don't have to worry
*more* of getting traced.It should give the govt.
enough work. :)

it is better that every one start encrypting their
mail-the idea would be then half of the world policing
will have to watch the other half of the world which
are civilians-which is not very feasible,thats what I
think.


> The extent to which obtaining keys is a traceable
> activity
> depends a lot on the type of public key
> infrastructure
> that's being used, and to some extent on the amount
> of
> accuracy that you need - spammers selling lists to
> each other
> probably wouldn't mind a 5-10% inaccuracy rate if it
> meant they didn't have to use keyservers,
> while people who want to preserve their privacy are
> much more likely to download mass quantities of keys
> from servers
> to avoid having it be obvious which ones they care
> about.
> 

Happy New Year.

Regards Sarath.

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Re: Many Worlds Version of Fermi Paradox

[Sarad AV]

hi,


--- Jim Choate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> On Tue, 31 Dec 2002, Sarad AV wrote:
> 
> > Does a paradox ever help in understanding any
> thing?
> 
> Yes, it can demonstrate that you aren't asking the
> right questions within
> the correct context.

okay.


> > 2.Gödel asks for the program and the circuit
> design of
> > the UTM. The program may be complicated, but it
> can
> > only be finitely long.
> 
> Wrong, there is -nothing- that says the program must
> have finite length
> -or- halt.


An axiom is an improvable statement which is accepted
as true. A Formula is a finite set of algebraic
symbols expressing a mathematical rule. Proofs, from
the formal standpoint, are a finite series of formulae
(with certain specifiable characteristics).Hence any
proof has a deterministic and well defined sequence of
steps. 
So since we are 'proving'  that the oracle does n't
exist-its program has finite.

This is true by the way I define a proof.
You are right in ur context and I am right in my
context.So both of us are right?yes,based on the
*sense* of what  we mean by a proof.



> > The question is it in a formal system,since we
> don't
> > have paradoexes in a formal system.

Any formal system is consistent, i.e. there is no
proposition that can be proved true by one sequence of
steps and false by another, equally valid argument-by
defenition and property of the system (I call the
above defenition a formal system,others might not) we
cant have a paradox in a formal system.


> 
> Godel has demonstrated that this is untrue, that in
> fact you -can- have
> -undecidable- statements in a formal system.
we cannot as reasoned above.If we have-we don't call
it a formal system-it can how ever still be a
*consistent* system

 > * note that Godel uses 'consistent' where we use
> 'complete' *

consistent and complete are not the same.
Complete means-true for all the possible values of all
the domains.
Consistent means-true for some values of domains and
its consistency is uphelid in the domain but  not 
outside.
its the *domain*-which we are concerned about.

> 
> Proposition XI:
> 
> If c be a given recursive, consistent class of
> formulae, then the
> propositional formula which states that c is
> consistent is not c-provable;
> in particular, the consistency of P is unprovable in
> P, it being assumed
> that P is consistent  (if not, then of course, every
> statement is
> provable).

> propositional formula which states that c is
> consistent is not c-provable;
A Formula is a finite set of algebraic symbols
expressing a mathematical rule---its a set of symbols
and certainly we cannot prove a set of symbols.Yes
thats true.

it says proposition formula which states c is
consistent is not provable. 

>the consistency of P is unprovable in
> P, it being assumed
> that P is consistent  (if not, then of course, every
> statement is
> provable).

Yes-thats what godels second incompleteness theorom
says.The following statement is true but not provable.

by the way can you point me to a undecidable problem
in a formal system?

Regards Sarath.



> ...further clarification (original italics/bold
> denoted by -*-)...
> 
> It may be noted is also constructive, ie it permits,
> if a -proof- from c
> is produced for w, the effective derivation from c
> of a contradiction. The
> whole proof of Proposition XI can also be carried
> over word for word to
> the axiom-system of set theory M, and to that of
> classical mathematics A,
> and here too it yields the result that there is no
> consistency proof for M
> or of A which could be formalized in M or A
> respectively, it being assumed
> that M and A are consistent. It must be expressly
> noted that Proposition
> XI (and the corresponding results for M and A)
> represent no contradiction
> of the formalistic standpoint of Hilbert. For this
> standpoint presupposes
> only the existance of a consistency proof effected
> by finite means, and
> there might conceivably be finite proofs which
> -cannot- be stated in P (or
> in M and A).
> 
> 
> In other words, "There are some proofs that can't be
> written".
> 
> 
>  --
>
>

> 
>   We are all interested in the future for that
> is where you and I
>   are going to spend the rest of our lives.
> 
>   Criswell, "Plan 9 from
> Outer Space"
> 
>   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   www.ssz.com  
> www.open-forge.org
>
>

> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Re: Many Worlds Version of Fermi Paradox

[Sarad AV]

hi,


--- Jim Choate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> On Thu, 2 Jan 2003, Sarad AV wrote:
> 
> > An axiom is an improvable statement which is
> accepted
> > as true.
> 
> An axiom is a statement which is -assumed to be
> universaly required-.
> That is -not- equivalent to 'true' (eg "A point has
> only position" is not
> 'true' but a -definition- which is neither true or
> false, it just is). If
> it's unprovable then it's 'truth' is irrelevant,
> derived statements can
> be 'true' only if we accept the assumptions. Derived
> statements can
> -never- be used to 'prove' the assumptions or else
> we have circular logic.

Yes,ok-i understand what you mean.

As you already see-what you say is correct for your
definition of proof and axiom.
I never said you are wrong-I only said that I am right
 according to my set of defenitions and statements in
the context I mean.You are right according to your
definitions and statements.


you said

> 2.Gödel asks for the program and the circuit design
of
> the UTM. The program may be complicated, but it can
> only be finitely long.

Wrong, there is -nothing- that says the program must
have finite length
-or- halt.

Acoording to my definition of proof,I am right and
according to your definition you are right.But you
said 'Wrong', there is nothing...

Thats the only thing I disagree with.

If we accept that both arguments are right-every thing
is clear and there is no more confusion.

This discussion never ends other wise because-

for a given definition -we interpret it in different
ways.
Some times we don't agree on the sense of the
definition.

Its how acccording to the definitions and statements
we make,the result we come up with.
 
Thats where-I am not convinced with paradoxes and the
fermi paradox either.

I agree with the further discussion in this mail-Thats
another way of seeing it.

> To talk of an axiom as being 'true' is a logic error
> (you've actually
> switched into a meta-mathematics at this stage
> without recognizing it), it
> can't be 'false' or everything falls apart (eg
> Godel's commentary about
> PM being inconsistent means we can prove -any-
> statement 'true').
> > A Formula is a finite set of algebraic
> > symbols expressing a mathematical rule. Proofs,
> from
> > the formal standpoint, are a finite series of
> formulae
> > (with certain specifiable characteristics).Hence
> any
> > proof has a deterministic and well defined
> sequence of
> > steps.

 
> Godel says differently, 

yes.he takes it in a different sense.

>what he says -via proof- is
> that there -are-
> proofs that can't even be written because individual
> steps may be true but
> are unprovably so. Hence, a proof that can't be
> written down can't be said
> to have an end since it isn't complete. An algorithm
> for proving a
> statement true when fed a unprovable statement -must
> not halt- or else it
> is saying the statement is 'true or false', hence it
> is -not- required to
> terminate or halt.
> 
> The primary result of Godel's work here is that
> 'true' and 'false' are
> -not sufficient- to describe the behavior of PM.

agreed.

> That -any- 'universal
> algorithm' for proving statements 'true or false'
> can't exist since some
> statements -in principle- (never mind practice) are
> -not provable-. Godel
> in effect answers the 'Halting Problem' in the
> negative.
> 
> > This is true by the way I define a proof.
> > You are right in ur context and I am right in my
> > context.So both of us are right?yes,based on the
> > *sense* of what  we mean by a proof.
 

> No, being 'right' isn't really the issue. I vote for
> Godel. If we accept
> his proof then we have the unprovable assumption
> that PM is consistent
> (which is ok for an axiom). This means that we have
> at least -an
> implication- that it is so. Otherwise we are left
> with accepting it is
> false, and hence PM is incomplete and -any statement
> can be proven
> false-. How usefull would that be? I don't think
> very.

I think-i get your point now-I was comming to the same
conclusion.We need a model which works rather than
comming up with a model which does not work.If they
later disagree with observations we can update our
model.Thank you for this discussion-it is very
sensible.


There is still one thing left-how useful or how close
is  the fermi paradox to the truth.


Regards Sarath.


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Liars Paradox

[Sarad AV]

hi,



with reference to

http://www.utm.edu/research/iep/p/par-liar.htm

it says


The Liar Paradox is an argument that arrives at a
contradiction by reasoning about a Liar Sentence. The
most familiar Liar Sentence is the following
self-referential sentence:

(1) This sentence is false.
Experts in the field of philosophical logic have never
agreed on the way out of the trouble despite 2,300
years of attention. Here is the trouble--a sketch of
the Liar Argument that reveals the contradiction:

If (1) is true, then (1) is false. On the other hand,
if (1) is false, then it is true to say (1) is false;
but, because the Liar Sentence is saying precisely
that (namely that it is false), (1) is true. So (1) is
true if and only if it is false. Since (1) is one or
the other, it is both.

As it says-they are self referecial statements.What do
we learn from the liars paradox?

We arrive at a senseless result-doesn't all other
paradoxes do that-with the difference that they pick
only either true or false-which "they so strongly
beleive in" and come with the result they want?IS n't
that all paradoxes are trying to do?

Regards Sarath.

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Re: Liars Paradox & Fermi paradox

[Sarad AV]

hi,


thank you.

what about this
http://xray.sai.msu.ru/~lipunov/text/ashkl/node3.html

http://www.transhumanism.ndtilda.co.uk/Fermi.htm
it says

There has been much speculation around Fermi's famous
question: "Where are they? Why haven't we seen any
traces of intelligent extraterrestrial life?". One way
in which this question has been answered (Brin 1983)
is that we have not seen any traces of intelligent
extraterrestrial life because there is no
extraterrestrial life because intelligent
extraterrestrial life tend to self-destruct soon after
it reaches the stage where it can engage in cosmic
colonization and communication. This is the same
conclusion as that of the Doomsday argument (i.e.: we
are likely to perish soon), but arrived at trough a
wholly different line of argument.


So does the fermi paradox mean that there are no extra
terrestrials.Can't we throw away this paradox like
every other paradox?

Regards Sarath.


--- Mike Rosing <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Sarad AV wrote:
> 
> > As it says-they are self referecial
> statements.What do
> > we learn from the liars paradox?
> >
> > We arrive at a senseless result-doesn't all other
> > paradoxes do that-with the difference that they
> pick
> > only either true or false-which "they so strongly
> > beleive in" and come with the result they want?IS
> n't
> > that all paradoxes are trying to do?
> 
> That's kind of a trivial paradox.  Any paradox
> arises
> from misunderstanding reality.
> 
> When you point your own finger at yourself (or your
> mirror image) it is a self referential operation.
> A sentence can't reference itself - you have to read
> it.  The symbols just sit there.  It is your attempt
> to apply meaning to the symbols that causes a
> problem.
> For example: xkdurp sathn kll ftres xcv tyeslr makes
> as much sense as the paradox.
> 
> And every paradox can be thrown away in similar
> fasion.
> You just have to figure out what it is you don't
> understand.
> :-)  Usually harder than it looks!
> 
> Patience, persistence, truth,
> Dr. mike
> 
> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Re: CDR: Re: Many Worlds Version of Fermi Paradox

[Sarad AV]

hi,


--- Jim Choate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> On Fri, 3 Jan 2003, Sarad AV wrote:
> 
> > As you already see-what you say is correct for
> your
> > definition of proof and axiom.
> 
> Here is the fundamental error in your thinking, you
> are trying to argue
> apples and oranges. 

how do you know that apples and oranges are not same
or are same?
Its the way you look at it.

Its where what ur definition of an apple and orange is
-how you interpret your apples and oranges and how you
see your apples and oranges. 

>As my comments alude to, what
> you are doing is trying
> to argue geometry using two different 5th's -at the
> same time-. While it
> was certainly done historically for a considerable
> amount of time, that
> itself is a logical contradiction. There are two
> choices:

There is no contadiction-there is more than one
solution to a problem-we just have to accept that.

> 
> - demonstrate the two are equivalent, and we go
> forward with our
>   little game

ofcourse-i am least interested in  games.I am trying
to understand things better.

 
> - recognize they are not equivalent, and we end the
> discussion
>   because there is really no discussion to be had
> 
> Your choice.

I did n't say they are equivalent-simply said that
there is more than one way at looking at it and there
is more than one solution to a problem which are not
equivalent since their *domain* is different .


Regards Sarath.

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Re: CDR: Re: Many Worlds Version of Fermi Paradox

[Sarad AV]

hi,


--- Jim Choate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> On Sat, 4 Jan 2003, Sarad AV wrote:
> 
> > how do you know that apples and oranges are not
> same
> > or are same?
> > Its the way you look at it.
> 
> No, ever see Apple and Oranges cross-breed? 

well-no in the sense you mean but I can say yes if i
define it in a different way :)

>-THEY-
> look at it that way
> too. So there -is- something there to the cladistic
> viewpoint.


Look at this view point.

I say that "The earth is flat and round".

now lets attach a meaning to it that we make a sense
out of it.

The earth is flat when I observe from the earth.
The earth is round when I observe it from space.

It depends on the frame of reference.

When you are on earth you agree that  the earth is
flat.
when you are in space you agree that the earth is
round.

how ever you don't agree to me saying that both are
right.

As you see they are not equivalent either because
their *domains*-which is the frame of reference are
different.

thats my view point.

Regards Sarath.
> 
> 
>  --
>
>

> 
>   We are all interested in the future for that
> is where you and I
>   are going to spend the rest of our lives.
> 
>   Criswell, "Plan 9 from
> Outer Space"
> 
>   [EMAIL PROTECTED]   
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>   www.ssz.com  
> www.open-forge.org
>
>

> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Re: Definitions, Proofs, Derivations

[Sarad AV]

hi,

Thats a beautiful one.
--- Jim Choate <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
To assert that a theorem is
> false means to deny
> one or more of the axioms. However, to assert that a
> theorem is true does
> not necessarily mean to assert the truth of all
> axioms.

yes-it only means its time to update  our mathametical
model for certain observations which does not agree
with the model we made for it.

> Some theorems
> remain true even if some of the axioms of a
> mathematical theory are
> rejected.

yes-our  original model still works for the domain it
still agrees with our observations.

> 
> To accept the truth of the axioms is simply to agree
> to assume them to be
> true.
yes-we will have to,other wise we won't have models
which work.

> However, the consistency of the axioms with
> each other is sometimes
> in question.

Then its time to modify  our axioms.

> Then, if any two or more axioms of an
> alleged mathematical
> theory are found to be inconsistent with each other,
> the whole theory
> collapses."

It will be a proposition then-won't be an axiom.If we
find that the two axioms are inconsistent with each
other-its time we update our axioms and they will
become propositions and no more axioms.The theory as
such doesn't collapse.


Regards Sarath.
 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Re: Liars Paradox & Fermi paradox

[Sarad AV]

hi,


I guess inspite of all these questions-I will wait
till I get to see a real one.But how will I know if it
was a real  alien?

what if we are being tricked-If I could go back in
time along with  a projector that projects a
holographic image of an alien and trick our ancestors 
to beleive that they had seen an alien,how less
probable are we being tricked of the same.I think
thats one more question you can add to that list.


the argument is fine but there are as you say too many
unknowns and there is no meaning on operating on them
as if they were constant,we want models for things we
observe and not what we speculate-so may be there is
no point in speculating since we only end up with same
questions and our understanding gets no better than it
was.

Regards Sarath.


--- Bill Stewart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 12:39 AM 01/04/2003 -0800, Sarad AV wrote:
> >There has been much speculation around Fermi's
> famous
> >question: "Where are they? Why haven't we seen any
> >traces of intelligent extraterrestrial life?". One
> way
> >in which this question has been answered (Brin
> 1983)
> >is that we have not seen any traces of intelligent
> >extraterrestrial life because there is no
> >extraterrestrial life because intelligent
> >extraterrestrial life tend to self-destruct soon
> after
> >it reaches the stage where it can engage in cosmic
> >colonization and communication.
> 
> I prefer the argument (I think from Calvin & Hobbes)
> that
> any aliens smart enough to do space travel are
> smart enough not to waste their time on this
> messed-up planet
> with loser species like Homo sapiens.
> 
> >So does the fermi paradox mean that there are no
> extra
> >terrestrials.  Can't we throw away this paradox
> like
> >every other paradox?
> 
> I'd argue that this is different.
> Most interesting paradoxes are interesting because
> they're caused by the
> weaknesses in our tools (e.g. Xeno not being very
> good at continuous math),
> and become more interesting if they encourage us to
> build better tools,
> or because they question or expose edges in the
> applicability
> of language as a tool for analyzing reality, or
> because they help us
> to question our assumptions about fundamental issues
> like
> the nature of ourselves and other things (e.g. Zen
> koans),
> or because they expose the differences between a
> surface understanding
> of an issue and the deeper aspects that take more
> work to understand.
> 
> In the case of the "Fermi Paradox", the weaker form
> (why aren't they here)
> is easier to counter than the stronger form (why
> don't we at least see
> signals from their radio communications), but it's a
> probabilistic argument
> bases on a large number of assumptions, and unless
> the probabilities are
> large enough, it doesn't catalyze into an expanding
> system that we'd see,
> as opposed to at most a bunch of little blips that
> we'd miss.
> 
> Some of the assumptions for the stronger form
> - what life is
> - how prevalent are the conditions that life needs
> to form,
> - what's the probability that it will form if it
> can,
> - how long that will take,
> - how old the Universe is and how fast it's
> expanding,
> - how long it will take for conditions in which life
> can evolve to obtain,
> - how likely that life will evolve beings that use
> radio or other noisy
>long-distance communication tools or signal
> byproducts
> - how long the beings stay in that phase
> - how strong the signals will be at the source
> - how far away they'll be from us at the time,
>  - thus how weak the signals will be
> - whether we have the capability to detect those
> signals,
> - how likely it is that we'll actually detect them
> if we can,
> - how likely it is that we'll recognize them as
> signals if we detect them,
> - how likely that a group of aliens that have
> technology
>  would be *interested* in contact unknown
> distant life forms
> - whether aliens who were interested would think it
> was worthwhile,
>  given that the response time for such a
> project would be very long,
>  unless they thought there were lots of
> aliens nearby,
> - whether they'd try doing it using signals of types
> we'd listen for,
> - how loud their signals would be at the source if
> they do
> - whether they succeed in reaching other aliens if
> they try
>  (similar arguments about whether those
> aliens could detect it,
>  scaled up by the number of listening aliens
> within range)
> - whether th

Re: Security cameras are getting smart -- and scary

[Sarad AV]

hi,

So where does that put  privacy to.Your whole life
outside the house can be monitered-when there are many
cameras.

May be the worlds air getting  polluted isn't so
bad-atleast we could put anti-pollution masks and
protect our identity :)

Regards Sarath.


--- Eugen Leitl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
http://www.siliconvalley.com/mld/siliconvalley/4883623.htm
> 
> Security cameras are getting smart -- and scary
> By Dean Takahashi
> Mercury News
> 
> From wealthy private homes to military
> installations, security cameras are 
> going high tech.
> 
> Prompted in part by new fears after the Sept. 11,
> 2001, terrorist attacks, 
> camera makers, security specialists, hard-disk
> makers and chip designers 
> are transforming the art of video surveillance, long
> known for its grainy, 
> black-and-white images and reams of tape.
> 
> With the new smart cameras, data is recorded in a
> digital format on hard 
> disk drives so that reviewing hours of surveillance
> is much easier. Solar 
> batteries let cameras run without the risk of
> failing because somebody cut 
> the power.
> 
> Data can be sent over the Internet -- often through
> wireless data networks 
> -- directly to a company's hard drive archives.
> Processing chips inside 
> the cameras make the images much easier to discern,
> and new software 
> analyzes faces so that the cameras can send alerts
> to security guards when 
> they spot known criminals or suspicious movements.
> 
> ``On one level, this is taking analog camera
> technology and adding digital 
> capabilities with new chips,'' said Bruce
> Flinchbaugh, a fellow at Texas 
> Instruments in Dallas. ``On another level, it's
> adding new intelligence to 
> redefine security.''
> 
> Geoff Beale, owner of The Alarm Company in Los
> Gatos, has installed a 
> whole digital setup at the San Jose estate of one
> client.
> 
> If someone moves past the light beams that line the
> home's perimeter, the 
> movement will activate the estate's 15 security
> cameras, which work even 
> at night and record their data onto hard disks. The
> motion detector will 
> also trigger the garage door to let out the owner's
> German shepherds.
> 
> A camera trained on the road leading to the house
> can discern a car's 
> license plates and cameras trained on doors can
> capture faces. The cameras 
> send alarms to the owners with varying degrees of
> urgency based on the 
> nature of the security threat.
> 
> ``If they have an incident, I can jump to the spot
> on the hard disk drive 
> where the video is recorded and deliver the scene to
> them by e-mail,'' 
> said Beale.
> 
> Road patrol
> 
> Concerned about homeland security, the California
> Department of 
> Transportation is installing video cameras that will
> monitor the Bay 
> Area's transportation infrastructure and transmit
> the data to Caltrans 
> engineers and the California Highway Patrol.
> 
> Hundreds of cameras will watch over the Golden Gate
> Bridge and the Bay 
> Bridge. Proxim, which makes wireless networking gear
> in Sunnyvale, will 
> provide wireless Internet networking technology for
> the project, saving on 
> huge wiring costs.
> 
> Nick Imearato, a research fellow at the Hoover
> Institute, said he expects 
> the federal government to require cameras be placed
> every 400 feet or so 
> in airports to monitor all aspects of airport
> security, from cargo areas 
> to boarding areas. Over time, as the technology gets
> cheaper, he said, 
> ``This will migrate to millions of businesses and
> even homes.''
> 
> Such constant surveillance, even in the name of
> homeland security, scares 
> civil libertarians, who feel it amounts to an
> illegal search of everyone 
> who passes within view of a camera.
> 
> ``Our position is this kind of continuous recording
> can be very dangerous, 
> especially if coupled with technology to recognize
> faces,'' said Lee Tien, 
> senior staff attorney at the Electronic Frontier
> Foundation, a technology 
> watchdog group in San Francisco. ``You have to
> always ask what is the 
> compelling justification for such surveillance.''
> 
> But the surveillance business continues to grow.
> Last year, the 
> closed-circuit TV camera market generated about $1.5
> billion in revenue, 
> according to JP Freeman, a market researcher in
> Newtown, Conn. While 
> sophisticated cameras that use technologies like
> Internet connectivity are 
> only about 10 percent of the market today, they are
> growing at 30 percent 
> a year, or twice the rate of standard security
> cameras, said Joe Freeman, 
> president the firm. By 2005, the market could top
> $500 million in the U.S. 
> alone.
> 
> Specialized market
> 
> The market for smart cameras is fragmented. Leaders
> include big companies 
> like Panasonic, Sony, JVC and General Electric. But
> the niche is small 
> enough for companies like Rvision of San Jose,
> supplier of cameras to 
> CalTrans, to compete.
> 
> At the heart of the smart cameras are
> video-process

Re: Definitions, Proofs, Derivations

[Sarad AV]

hi,

> > Then, if any two or more axioms of an
> > alleged mathematical
> > theory are found to be inconsistent with each
> other,
> > the whole theory
> > collapses."
> 

there will be no inconsistency in a formal axiomatic
systems-but can any one point me to a contradicting
set of axioms in an axiomatic system?


Regards Sarath.

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Re: Desert Spam

[Sarad AV]

hi,

Iraqi high ranking officers had the oppurtunity to
defect in the 1991 war too.
By the way how many of these officers who go for
battle ever check e-mail.


--- "Major Variola (ret)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> radio broadcasts and leaflets
> dropped from airplanes
> instead. .
> 

This method was a total failure in afghanistan.It just
makes we wonder why u.s is going with this war-they
really dont have the international support.most of the
 world back chats on the u.s but coz these nations 
need the u.s,they simply go with u.s
Saddam has been preparing for this war for years.
There is a new oil pipe line being completed through
turkey-caspian sea.once thats over the war should
start.
Russia will never give US its support-the russians are
looking big to invest in iraqi oil once the u.n
sanctions are lifted.Most of asia also derives oil
from iraq.


Sarath.


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Re: Desert Spam(The war)

[Sarad AV]

hi,


Does n't that also mean that the US will have to time
well the ending of the war or the fall of iraq(If iraq
is to fall-that we will have to wait and see).

Usually we have oil reserves which can last three
months from the start of the war.How ever then the US
will not be able to sell it-until the reserves of
other countries dry out.

That would mean that it cannot let iraq fall at an
early stage of the war.No body will buy the oil from
US then and US will not be able to cover up the cost
of the war or may be even make profit of it.

So if US tries  blitzkrieg-iraq may fall in less than
100 days but they can't afford that to happen.They
would have to wait till the other countries oil
reserved dry out-sell the oil-make the money and then
invade iraq.

It also would mean that there can be no more countries
around iraq drawn fully into the war for US.

If Iran or Israel would attack iraq then the US oil
equation will not work.There are also enough sects in
and around iraq who will fight their way into iraq
once they find iraq is going to fall at any point
during the war.So US will want iraq be able to defend
its territories till it can sell the oil.Once that is
done-it can have its free run on iraq. 
It also might mean a long campaign the arieal route
-missiles and bombs from planes.The ground troops will
be only pressed only when iraq would be ready to be
fell.
US seems to run a very big gamble for very big
money.Will have to  see how well it works and what
surprises iraq can come up with.

Regards Sarath.




--- Mike Rosing <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, 16 Jan 2003, Sarad AV wrote:
> 
> > There is a new oil pipe line being completed
> through
> > turkey-caspian sea.once thats over the war should
> > start.
> > Russia will never give US its support-the russians
> are
> > looking big to invest in iraqi oil once the u.n
> > sanctions are lifted.Most of asia also derives oil
> > from iraq.
> 
> That's the whole point.  The US is going to steal
> the oil
> right out from under the noses of the russians and
> Indians.
> They might even sell it to them :-)
> 
> Patience, persistence, truth,
> Dr. mike
> 
> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

ICBM's and space programs

[Sarad AV]

hi,

Would countries with an advanced space program and
with capilities of launching satellites have ICBM
capabilities.if yes can they be sucessfully launched
with the knowledge that they can successfully launch 
medium range missiles (2000 to 3000 km range).

Regards Sarath.

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now.
http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Re: Something conspicuously missing from the media survival lists

[Sarad AV]

hi,

> I've not followed it closely, but Powell claims to
> have a tape of
> Bin Laden talking to "Iraqi's".  Al Jazerra denys
> it's real.  This is
> all from NPR.  The game is afoot, let's see who can
> deliver the bigger
> lie.

A tape as an evidence?Is a tape still considered as a
valid piece of evidence in a court of law?Is it  not
difficult to authenticate and even if
authenticated-with what probability can we say that it
is genuine?

Regards Sarath.


> 
> Patience, persistence, truth,
> Dr. mike
> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day
http://shopping.yahoo.com

birthday attack

[Sarad AV]

hi,

http://www.x5.net/faqs/crypto/q95.html

If some function, when supplied with a random input,
returns one of k equally-likely values, then by
repeatedly evaluating the function for different
inputs, we expect to obtain the same output after
about 1.2k1/2. For the above birthday paradox, replace
k with 365. 


how is the result obtained?

Regards Sarath.




__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day
http://shopping.yahoo.com

RE: Trivial OPT generation method?

[Sarad AV]

hi,



> You probably know this if you use it, but
> /dev/random is the most
> "random" one, as it always uses system entropy,
> rather than falling
> back on an algorithm to generate more bits than are
> available in
> the pool. 

Its always better to choose an algorithm because it
has *known* properties-such as period of the
generator,whether it passes the die hard test and so
on.Once we know it  by using a one way function we can
say with some confidence that the generated output has
good random properties.

Regards Sarath.

Using the output to seed MD5 for the next block
exposes that part of 
the
state of the RNG.  Might be better to use half the MD5
output as seed 
for the
next block, and the other half as output data.

* Your RNG takes input from an attackable source.  I
can significantly 
reduce
the entropy of your system by placing a transmitter
near your machine 
(even if

-J

Since you only need 8 bytes of random seed
> (and if you
> don't need to generate many OTPs at a time...) it
> might be worth
> using it instead.
> Can't help you on the entropy quality though.
> 
> -- 
> Vincent Penquerc'h 
> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more
http://taxes.yahoo.com/

When is iraq expected to fall.

[Sarad AV]

hi,


how long does US analysts expect iraq to be completely
occupied by US and allied troops?

Regards Sarath.

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com

Re: Libertarian Party expresses "concern" over war -- but does not

[Sarad AV]

hi,

Terrorism only increases.Saying meet fire with fire is
only an anology.The whole world is against the war but
they are all oppurtunists-they will strike only when
they can.The war may do more damage even than all the
oil it can get.

Regards Sarath.

--- Mike Rosing <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Fri, 21 Mar 2003, Bill Stewart wrote:
> 
> > While I wish Mike were correct that the party
> would get some spine
> > just because we tell them to, I'm not holding my
> breath.
> > I was expecting better from Geoff.
> >
> > The LP's traditional heritage was pretty radical
> about issues
> > like the draft (we opposed it) and drugs (got any
> good pot?)
> > and about free markets, but too many people
> reacted to 9/11
> > by supporting intervention to not only kill Osama,
> > but anybody else that the Administration felt like
> blaming,
> > such as the Taliban, and there are some people in
> the California party
> > who think that invading Iraq will somehow help
> stop anti-US terrorism
> > or will kill people who supported Osama and is
> therefore justifiable.
> 
> Uggh.  So there are neanderthal Libertarians too. 
> Bummer, I was
> expecting them all to have different opinions, but
> it's pretty
> obvious that we're creating more enemies and
> increasing terrorism.
> Oh well, I guess they all get to learn by
> experience.
> 
> Patience, persistence, truth,
> Dr. mike
> 
> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com

Re: Spending a billion dollars an hour produces a hell of a light show!

[Sarad AV]

hi,

Every one is a suspect-Let me check all your
pockets.Stand in the line syria,egypt,iran,korea!
Whats happening with this world.

Sarath.


--- Tyler Durden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "As the Iraqis themselves said, and I paraphrase
> (because the quote is  not 
> handy): "If the U.S. says they know the locations of
> secret weapons  
> projects, of underground bunkers, etc., why don't
> they simply give the  
> locations to the U.N. weapons inspectors who can
> then go to those  sites?"
> 
> Come on now! The Iraqis should have proven that they
> DON'T have any nukular 
> weapons. They were unable to prove that they don't
> have any WMDs, so now 
> it's their fault they're getting invaded.
> 
> -TD
> 
>
_
> STOP MORE SPAM with the new MSN 8 and get 2 months
> FREE*  
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/junkmail
> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com

Re:Liberation party express concern over war

[Sarad AV]

hi,


Starting a war with saudi is a simple thing.How ever
unless they don't find enough oil in iraq,they will
turn onto KSA.
How ever Saudi with Mecca and Madina is a dangerous
country to attack.Saudi will surely take it as a war
on muslims and the impact of that is severe.Saudi is
the holy country.Its not like attaking iraq.

Regards Sarath.



On Thu, 20 Mar 2003, Bill Frantz wrote:

> One view of the war in Iraq is that it is to assure
an oil supply so 
we can
> take on Saudi Arabia, home of three quarters of the
911 hijackers.

Makes sense, use Saudia Arabia as a land base to take
over Iraq, then
use Iraq as a land base to take over Saudia Arabia. 
Then watch all US
skyscrapers fall from angry Colombians.  Makes a lot
of sense to W I'm
sure.

Patience, persistence, truth,
Dr. mike



__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com

Re: Things are looking better all the time

[Sarad AV]

hi,

> The US now has troops in over 100 countries.  That's
> a lot of targets to
> pick at.  Imagine losing a soldier somewhere once a
> day, everyday for the
> next 10 years.  Maybe somebody will notice?


Thats what happens in india over the pakistan
border.Some body or the other gets killed daily.Its
been now happening here-they don't hit the headlines
unless atleast 5 or more soldiers get killed
simultaneously.Surely bombing in public places do hit
the headlines.
The public reaction here is generally cold here unless
lot of people die.But it keeps the hate buildiing up.

Regards Sarath.
 
> Patience, persistence, truth,
> Dr. mike
> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com

Re: U.S. Drops 'E-Bomb' On Iraqi TV

[Sarad AV]

hi,

it doesnt matter as long as Al-Jazeera is live and
kicking and the camera's are rolling.

The highly classified bomb creates a brief pulse of
> microwaves powerful enough to fry computers, blind
> radar, silence radios, trigger crippling power
> outages and disable the electronic ignitions in
> vehicles and aircraft. 

the existance of such a bomb was on indian news papers
a week ago.

Regards Sarath.



--- "R. A. Hettinga" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ...from the Leg-HERFing department...
> 
> Cheers,
> RAH
> Who expects it was just a bomb-bomb, Jim. They came
> back with a bigger one, just now.
> ---
> 
> 
> 
> 
>

> 
> CBSNews.com: Print This Story
> 
> U.S. Drops 'E-Bomb' On Iraqi TV 
> March 25, 2003 
> 
> 
> The U.S. Air Force has hit Iraqi TV with an
> experimental electronmagetic pulse device called the
> "E-Bomb" in an attempt to knock it off the air and
> shut down Saddam Hussein's propaganda machine, CBS
> News Correspondent David Martin reports. 
> 
> The highly classified bomb creates a brief pulse of
> microwaves powerful enough to fry computers, blind
> radar, silence radios, trigger crippling power
> outages and disable the electronic ignitions in
> vehicles and aircraft. 
> 
> Iraqi satellite TV, which broadcasts 24 hours a day
> outside Iraq, went off the air around 4:30 a.m.
> local time (8:30 p.m. ET Tuesday). Iraq's domestic
> television service was not broadcasting at the time.
> 
> 
> Officially, the Pentagon does not acknowledge the
> weapon's existence. Asked about it at a March 5 news
> conference at the Pentagon, Gen. Tommy Franks said:
> 3I can't talk to you about that because I don't know
> anything about it.2 
> 
> The use of the secret weapon came on a day that saw
> intense action on the battlefield. The Pentagon said
> the U.S. Seventh Cavalry killed between 150 and 500
> Iraqis after being attacked by rocket-propelled
> grenades near An Najaf in central Iraq. There are no
> reported American casualties. 
> 
> In other major developments: 
> 
> 
> -- 
> -
> R. A. Hettinga 
> The Internet Bearer Underwriting Corporation
> 
> 44 Farquhar Street, Boston, MA 02131 USA
> "... however it may deserve respect for its
> usefulness and antiquity,
> [predicting the end of the world] has not been found
> agreeable to
> experience." -- Edward Gibbon, 'Decline and Fall of
> the Roman Empire'
> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com

Re: Things are looking better all the time

[Sarad AV]

hi,

They are not working very well or US since the iraqi's
are using gps jammers and US are already in a row with
russians claiming that they sold it to iraq.

Regards Sarath.

--- Tim May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Tuesday, March 25, 2003, at 03:30  AM, Ken Brown
> wrote:
> 
> > Declan McCullagh wrote:
> >
> >>> Or perhaps we'll see someone take a
> GPS-controlled small plane, which
> >>> can carry 1,000 lbs, and turn it into a flying
> bomb or delivery 
> >>> system
> >>> for something quite noxious. These planes can be
> rented by the hour 
> >>> at
> >>> hundreds of small to medium sized airports
> around the U.S. Though I
> >>> don't know if the autopilot is configurable
> enough to let an attacker
> >>> program it to head to a certain altitude at a
> certain location and
> >>> then bail out via parachute.
> >
> > Another novel that came out with the idea - and
> the first one to
> > explicitly mention GPS AFAIR - was "The Moon
> Goddess and the Son" by
> > Donald Kingsbury from 1987 (incorporating parts
> from stories in Analog
> > back in the 1970s)  which has an Afghan refugee
> studying aero
> > engineering  in the US and setting up light planes
> to autopilot an
> > attack on the Kremlin.  (To be honest when I first
> heard the news about
> > 9/11 that's what I thought might have happened - 
> until I saw a TV
> > screen I didn't realise they were passenger
> planes)
> 
> And of course it was in 1987 that the German
> teenager Matthias Rust 
> flew a Cessna over the border into the USSR and
> buzzed Red Square, so 
> it's not clear who had the idea first.
> 
> (I remember the name but not the year, so I used
> Google to find it.)
> 
> The general idea of using "asymmetric warfare," via
> RC planes, bombs, 
> etc., is really not very new. Torching an enemy's
> village in the middle 
> of the night is a time-honored form of asymmetric
> warfare, though the 
> War Lawyers have been trying to force armies to wear
> Official Uniforms 
> and march in Official Patterns.
> 
> 
> --Tim May
> "That the said Constitution shall never be construed
> to authorize 
> Congress to infringe the just liberty of the press
> or the rights of 
> conscience; or to prevent the people of the United
> States who are 
> peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms."
> --Samuel Adams
> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com

Regarding linear recurrences.

[Sarad AV]

hi,

Need help on understanding the following marix
multiplication.

let _ denote subscript.
w=32 bits(0 to 31)

let X be a 32 bit vector
X={X_(w -1),x_(w-2),..x_0}


A=
|1 0 . .|
|0 .|  
|.   .  | 
|. .|  
|a_(w-1) a_(w-2)a_0 |


i.e A is an identity matrix w ith last row entries
a_(w-1) a_(w-2)a_0  which is again a 32 bit vector

We multiply 1*w matrix X with w*w matrix to get a 1*w
matrix as follows

X*A=[X_(w-1)+ X_0*a_*(w-1) , X_(w-2)+
X_(w-2)*a_(w-2),..., X_1+ X_1*a_1 ,
X_0*a_0];


it is said- X*A can be calculated using bit wise
operations as follows

X*A
=
XOR {0 if the least significant bit of
y=0;(multiplying A)
XOR (a if the least significant bit of
y=1;(multiplying A) 



how does this hold?

thank you.

Regards Sarath.

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com

Re: Things are looking better all the time

[Sarad AV]

hi,

That cannot possibly even happen-by mistake.Al-jazeera
is qatar based.They might hit a chinese embassy but
not AL-Jazeera.

1500 turkish troops moved into north iraq-US cannot
immediately do any thing about it since flying over
Turkish air space is important for them.

Sarath.

(Before Al Jazeera is
> accidentally bombed off the
> air.)
> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com

RE: U.S. Drops 'E-Bomb' On Iraqi TV

[Sarad AV]

hi,

All this happening on the worlds greatest demcoracy.
may be you read this news.

http://news.yahoo.com/fc?tmpl=fc&cid=34&in=tech&cat=hackers_and_crackers

Unofficial reports are that 500 iraqi's died 2 days
ago and day  before yesterday another 1000 died.This
is the word comming from Saudi-from friends.Dunno if
the casualities are iraqi civilains or the army.
US bombers are any way doing cluster bombing in
civilian areas.They are finding it hard to hit
armoured vehicles since they are well spread out in
distinct patterns.US has told iraq to treat US
soldiers as pow's and follow the geneva
convention.they showed images of 3 US pow's,one women
and 2 men-one of them were bandaged on their
head.These had appeared a few hours after US made a
press conference saying that they had taken 3000
iraqi's pow's and there were no US pow's.

Iraq replied by asking them to follow the geneva
convention and not to do cluster bombing in civilan
areas.

In any case US military pow's are going to have a hard
time and since U.S didnot give pow status to
*suspected* Al-Queda/taliban militants captured in
afghan war-no body is going to put pressure on iraq
either.

Regards Sarath.


--- Mike Rosing <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, 27 Mar 2003, Vincent Penquerc'h wrote:
> 
> > Yup, I get it from the UK, though I didn't get it
> two and three
> > days ago. URLs are all in English, though this may
> be normal.
> >
> > BTW, does anyone know about www.aljezeerah.info ?
> I've been
> > getting my news from there since the start of the
> war, but I don't
> > know what links it has with, say,
> www.aljazeera.net, since I never
> > got there before. It's all in English, but I'm not
> sure about the
> > actual affiliation and editorial "line", if anyone
> can shed some
> > light.
> 
> It's definitly jammed in the US.  I get "503 - out
> of resources error".
> Maybe you guys can set up a mirror that isn't jammed
> and the US can see it
> that way (at least until the feds catch wind of it).
> 
> Patience, persistence, truth,
> Dr. mike
> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com

iraqi civilians

[Sarad AV]

hi,


well here is the news on death of iraqi civilians in
basra.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030328/ap_on_re_mi_ea/war_basra&cid=716&ncid=716


I think the reverse is true.After the 'desert rats'
were forced out of basra-the iraqi's were using anti
air craft guns on US solidiers.
After this set back-US must have gone for a big
offensive.

Regards Sarath.



__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com

RE: Things are looking better all the time

[Sarad AV]

hi,

for every bomb that explodes in U.S,civil liberties
will keep comming down.This is not the case in other
countries were more bombs are hurled or exploded
daily.Though they are less concerned about their
citizens,they are concerned of their civil
liberties(atleast to some extent).

Regards Sarath.

--- Bill Stewart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 04:37 AM 03/25/2003 +0100, Lucky Green wrote:
But no, it's back
> to the same old same old,
> and so much for civil liberties in America as well.
> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com

Missile -launchers in iraq

[Sarad AV]

hi,


on the first or second day of the war-iraqi missiles
hit kuwait-4 to 5 of them.

After that there is no word of any more strikes in
kuwait or else where.What is Iraq waiting for?

Regards Sarath.

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com

RE: U.S. Drops 'E-Bomb' On Iraqi TV

[Sarad AV]

hi,

Well it is more than obvious that the US troops are
avoiding civilians-the reason is different though.
The iraqi republican troops are not fighting in
uniform-ther are fighting in kutra-traditional muslim
dress.You don't know who is a civilain and who is an
iraqi army personal-the US army is trying to reach
baghdad with out getting into trouble.They have had
enough.Being in  a desert storm for one night is
enough to keep one in bed for a week.The US army is
already suffering from fatigue,the troops called on
for air support to hit an iraqi  armoured vehicle but
turned out to be bushes and desert shrubs.
The US troops were fighting each other-when iraqi
guerilla's fired on both sides and the US troops ended
up shooting each other.
The US soldiers are finding to figure out who are US
soldiers themselves at first glance-US army dresses
were found in Nadarayiah and today one suicide bomber
blew up 5 US soldiers.
They claim that this war is not what they saw in their
war game.


Any way one thing is clear-superior missile,aircraft
or other electronic substitutes cannot win a war.The
US would need more ground troops in iraq and US is
always one step back in putting ground troops fearing
casualities.So may be if a country has 500,000
soldiers even US might not win a war against them.

Regards Sarath.


--- "James A. Donald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --
> On 28 Mar 2003 at 1:57, Sarad AV wrote:
> 
yesterday another 1000 died.
> 

> civilians are  pretty much ignoring the bombing and
shelling  they wish to  enter Bara as usual despite
the fact it is declared  a military > target -- they
stroll onto battlefields to collect  the artillery
casing boxes.
> 
> This indicates that the US, as claimed is, taking
> extraordinary
> measures to avoid civilian casualties, and is having
> considerable success in avoiding civilian
> casualties.


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com

RE: U.S. Drops 'E-Bomb' On Iraqi TV

[Sarad AV]

helo,
--- John Kelsey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Be fair about this.  We own the skies above Baghdad,
> bit too much, but it's not like we're targeting
> civilian areas.  If we 
> were, the images from Baghdad would be very
> different; not just one market 
> with a bomb crater, and one hospital flooded with
> injured and dead people, 
> but every building reduced to smoldering ruins, and
> dead people so thick on 
> the ground you couldn't walk across it.

Except for 'smart bombs' which has an accuracy 95% and
the only bombings shown on TV-what about the rest.Even
the patriot missles has a success hit rate of 1 out of
3.Is true that iraqi's are putting anti air craft and
other light arms over civilian buildings-that should
be the reason they got hit. 
How ever I wonder if the report of an Apache
helicopter being shot down by a farmer with his
rifle-the chopper was certainly downed but I find it
hard to beleive that a bullet brought it down. 

The images shown at the begining of the war showing
iraqi soldiers surrending and walking up with their
hands behind their head might have cost US dear again.
Iraqi tv then showed a iraqi general with a large
rifle in his hand saying to iraqi tv-what do you think
when I have this (rifle) in my  hand,i wont die
without killing two of them.
After the war started  around 3 civilians have
joined the war as small unorganised groups.

If the war drags to mid april the US troops wont stand
the intense heat,i mean its going to hard for them.

> I think the usual inducement to treating POWs you
> hold properly is that you 
> want your soldiers who've been taken prisoner to be
> treated 
> properly.  (There's also world opinion, which we
> care about a lot more than 
> Iraq does.) 

I wont beleive that any more-the US doesn't listen any
more to the world,its gone blind and deaf.

Suspected al-queda/taliban prisoners were put in 6*8
meter cages in the open sun and badly beaten up-I
remember seeing that on tv.They weren't given pow
status either.May be they didn't look like humans :)

  I'm not sure how important the Iraqi
> government considers our 
> treatment of their captured soldiers, though, and
> we're not going to shoot 
> them all even if the Iraqis do that to our captured
> soldiers.

hopefully they are treated well as its no fault of
theirs that they are dragged into this war with iraq.

 
Regards Sarath.
> 
> --John Kelsey, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com

Re: CDR: RE: U.S. Drops 'E-Bomb' On Iraqi TV

[Sarad AV]

--- Damian Gerow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> And then the whole world dies, because of ...  what?
> 
> Seriously, I *highly* doubt that any nation at this
> time would *seriously*
> think of bombing another nuclear-enabled nation with
> a nuclear weapon.  It's
> just suicide.

Well-pakistan has been constantly nuclear black
mailing india.They say that their nuclear options are
always open and there is nothing india can do about
it.When the hate grows logic doesn't work.Thats why
one cannot do any thing about suicide bombing
either.There are no winners in a nuclear war-thats
certain.So the uneasy peace will prevail for a few
more year.Things may change later.

Sarath.

> 
> 'a couple thousand nukes' later, there's not much
> left of this planet.  That
> which hasn't been blowed [sic] up is exposed to
> enough radiation to kill, or
> to cause some serious mutations.
> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com

Re: Nuking kasmir (Re: U.S. Drops 'E-Bomb' On Iraqi TV)

[Sarad AV]

helo,

> 
> Hilarious, dude.  Who got nukes first?  India.
Nope US did.
India got after US and before pakistan.Pak claims to
have nukes since 1983,though they were tested only in
1999-his report comes frm pakistan.


> 
> See your own propoganda site,

US is not the only counrty who can do that :-)

We are tired of watching CNN and BBC.Even local news
papers do carry more truth of whats happening around
the world.

> http://www.saag.org/papers5/paper451.html
> "THE MAY 1998 POKHRAN TESTS: Scientific Aspects by
> R. Chidambaram"
> for a nice tech description of your past and recent
> gizmos.
> 
> And your "blackmailing" agitprop is taken straight
> from
> http://www.saag.org/papers5/paper482.html
> "PAKISTAN'S NUCLEAR BLACKMAILING: Spreading fear of
>  nuclear terror"  by Dr. Rajesh Kumar Mishra
> (which is a typical paper topic by South Asia
> Analysis Group,
> which seems to be an Indian 1960's RAND).

More than propaganda-they pubicly claimed that nukes
are not made to be kept on the shelves.Any way there
is nothing much any body can do about it-be it india
or pak or US or Russia.India also has a self imposed
moretarium of no first use of nukes.
US conducted nearly a thousand nuclear tests over the
years and imposed sanctions on india and pak for
testing nukes.Every one does have a propaganda whether
the US likes it or not and US is not the only country
who can do what they like  :-).


Regards Sarath.
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com

Re: Missile -launchers in iraq

[Sarad AV]

hi,

Blitz comes with high casualities.Shock and awe
technique can use troops paratrooping into baghdad.But
casualities are always unacceptable to the U.S. So
they do it the conventional way.

Sarath.

--- Ken Brown <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Tyler Durden wrote:
> 
> [...]
> 
> > PS: Anyone notice the conceptual similarity
> between "shock and awe" and
> > "blitzkrieg"?
> 
> Yes, similar in some respects, though not the same.
> "Shock and awe"
> (terrible name for a quite sensible idea) was about
> a military force
> which is overwhelmingly stronger than its opponent
> attempting to win
> quickly and with minimum casualties on either side
> by rapidly and
> completely disrupting the enemy's ability to respond
> intelligently.
> 
> Blitzkrieg (not a word the Germans used officially
> in 1939 & 1940 - I'm
> told it was coined by an Italian journalist) was
> about a quick victory
> over an opponent of similar strength to oneself, by
> a deep and rapid
> penetration, close co-operation between arms, and
> continual
> re-evaluation of objectives by field officers on the
> ground.  
> 
> Blitzkrieg is one of the roots of S&A - but it has
> others including the
> punitive expeditions of colonial times, the British
> attempt to support
> indirect rule in Iraq by airpower alone in the
> 1920s, the massive aerial
> bombardments of Germany and Japan in WW2, the nukes
> at Hiroshima and
> Nagasaki, unrelenting Israeli pressure on the
> Palestinians,  and even US
> actions in places like Grenada and Panama.
> 
> The US has *not* used "shock and awe" in this
> campaign. If it had it
> might have thrown everything at Iraq in the first
> few hours - all the
> MOABs,  all the cluster bombs, all the
> bunker-busters, all the B1s, B2s,
> B52s can drop. It might have sent airborne troops in
> on the first day,
> ignored Basra, dropped men in Baghdad. The ideal
> "shock and awe" opening
> to the war would have had the citizens of Baghdad
> see those 3000
> missiles go off more or less simultaneously, in the
> first 30 minutes,
> not the first 3 days,  a ring of fire round their
> city, to the
> background of the exploding bombloads of 100 B52s.
> The TV and radio and
> military communications would have been knocked out.
> The presidential
> palaces and guards barracks would not have been just
> hit, but removed.
> The dazed citizens would have wandered into the
> streets in the morning
> to find them already patrolled by Americans. If
> Saddam Hussein had
> survived the bombing he'd have woken screaming to
> see not his own
> bodyguard but the SAS.
> 
> In fact the war has been run like a classic tank
> campaign, a blitzkrieg
> - tightly controlled armoured penetration over
> narrow fronts, avoiding
> easily defensible places, keeping on the move, 
> attempting to catch the
> enemy in the open and destroy him by rapidly
> bringing together local
> massive concentrations, but just steaming past an
> enemy unwilling to
> fight or hunkered down in cities or fortifications. 
> Guderian or
> Tukachevsky or Tal would have recognised the
> strategy instantly. 
> (Zhukov or Montgomery might have wanted larger,
> heavier formations). 
> The tremendous advantage given by the total air
> superiority has been
> used just ahead of the attack, as a sort of updated
> version of the
> moving barrage of WW1.
> 
> It has actually been quite a successful blitz. They
> are still making
> better time than the Germans did on the road to
> Warsaw.
> 
> I don't know why they are not trying the shock and
> awe strategy. I can
> think of a number of possibilities. They aren't
> mutually exclusive. In
> declining order of likelihood:
> 
> - perhaps they have a greater respect for the Iraqi
> military than they
> let on
> 
> - maybe, despite the hype, the battlefield
> technology is not yet in
> place, or not in great enough strength.  The news
> over here has
> mentioned British marines trying to find the launch
> sites  of the
> missiles aimed at them and that hit Kuwait. The
> pre-war propaganda was
> all about JSTARS or whatever spotting the launch
> site instantly and
> targeting retaliation within seconds.  But we're
> still using blokes with
> binoculars.
> 
> - maybe shock and awe is a bad idea anyway. It might
> just be too risky.
> If you throw everything you have got at them on day
> one, what do you do
> if they don't cave in on day two?  OK, you make sure
> you have enough kit
> to keep on doing it - that's actually part of the
> doctrine - but sooner
> or later it runs out. And there are loads of other
> countries out there
> who need their dose of S&A.  It is a very expensive
> kind of warfare.
> 
> - it could be that the military is just too innately
> conservative for
> the much-hyped S&A
> 
> - perhaps there are some new tricks they didn't want
> to use in sight of
> Iran - which (rumour has it) the PNAC types want to
> invade next (I hope
> to God they don't)
> 
> - perhaps they're saving it for a final attack on
> Baghdad
> 
> - ma

Re: U.S. Drops 'E-Bomb' On Iraqi TV

[Sarad AV]

hi,

yes-thats probabaly why they nuked hirsoshima and
nagasaki.
Dont undermine the hate.There was no logic
either.There was no logic in nuking thousand of people
in hirsohma saying their existance is less important
to thousands of people who might live,if the city was
nuked.

Sarath.

Re: U.S. Drops 'E-Bomb' On Iraqi TV

[Sarad AV]

hi,

Why are  the suicide bombers after US troops-its the
hate.It does work .Yesterday at najaf(iraq)-a family
of 8 women and atleast 2 children were killed by
allied troops.They claimed that the vehicle sped
towards an allied check post.So they fired warning
shots to *stop* the vehicle.
When it didn't stop-they opened fire at the passenger
compartment.Then they figured out they were a
family(iraqi civilains fleeing).One of the women was
still hodling the bodies of 2 children and she refused
to step out.The allied troops maintained that they had
the right defend themself at check posts and any
where.
They said that they would have to be careful of
suicide bombers.

When a vehicle tries to flee at high speed-how can
they be suicide bombers.A suicide bomber will go
slow,stop at the check post and see that he can kill
as many people as possible.
where was the logic in killing these civilians-and
this report was confirmed by allied soldiers.

For those who read this-the hate is growing,all over
the world.


> Silly PC language about how "when the hate grows
> logic doesn't work" is 
> pointless, Ghandian nonsense.
> 
> If India does not withdraw from Kashmir, Pakistan
> will nuke Delhi, 
> Calcutta, Hyderabad, and the aptly-named Mumbai.

Thats part of the hate-you are condradicting.


> 
> Jibberish about "hate" and "love" and "violence
> never solves anything" 
> needs to be introduced to Mr. Atom.
> 
> > --Tim May


As long as the US thinks it can flex its muscles-the
going gets bad.The sooner it realises the better it is
for its citizens.

Sarath.

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com

Re: Blackout in NYC

[Sarad AV]

hi,



There wasn't much of traffic congestion on the
manhatten roads when they showed the images on bbc.
The manhatten road network is used in examples of
deflection routing. Also roads every where should be
like that :-)

In India during  summer-we have around 8 hours of
power cut daily.

For a moment think of all the iraqi's with  power
grids taken out now enjoying the 120+ farenhiet sun. A
few hours of luxury was gone and it was breaking news
in bbc.

Sarath.



--- John Young <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Quiet here in New York City, thousands walking in
> the streets, auto
> traffic is pleasantly minimal along upper Broadway.
> Traffic lights inoperative, as well as computers
> except for laptops such as this.
> 
> Telephones working. Portable radio says the outage
> is due to
> northeast electrical grid failing. Not terrorist
> related, it is termed a "natural" outage due to
> overload.
> 
> One report said the cascading outage began at a
> sub-station in 
> NYC, another says it started in Canada.
> 
> Mayor Bloomberg says that power is now starting to
> come back,
> a bit at a time as the individual elements of the
> grid are restored,
> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

Q on associative binary operation

[Sarad AV]

hi,

Table shown is completed to define 'associative'
binary operation * on S={a,b,c,d}. 

*|a|b|c|d
-
a|a|b|c|d
-
b|b|a|c|d
-
c|c|d|c|d
-
d|d|c|c|d


The operation * is associative iff (a*b)*c=a*(b*c) for
all a,b,c element of set S.

So can (a*d)*d=a*(d*d)=d considered as associative
over * for this case as per definition?

Regards Sarath.




__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

Re: paradoxes of randomness

[Sarad AV]

hi,

--- Dave Howe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
. (Not
> > saying you do, just quibbling with any claim that
> readily calculated
> > probabilities can be "surprising.")
> I meant surprising for Sarad - Much of this
> discussion pre-assumes that he
> *does* misunderstand probability but is willing to
> substitute our
> collective insanity for his current ignorance :)

No more of that-I will have a good read. I am
basically confused of the fact

> In a perfectly random experiment,how many tails and
> how many heads do we get?
we don't know - or it wouldn't be random :)
>for a sufficiently large sample you *should* see
>roughly equal numbers of heads and tails in the
>average case.

We say that, we-don't know or it wont be random. Then
we say that we must see roughly equal numbers of heads
and tails for large trials. Thats what I fail to
understand.



The idea of a perfect random experiment was taken just
to understand the concept.

Thanks.

Regards Sarath.


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

Re: Q on associative binary operation

[Sarad AV]

hi,

Let ~ represents a relation.

If a~b and b~a,then

a~a (by transitivity)
is an incorrect argument.

By definition of transitivity, if a~b and b~c implies
that a~c.

I was asking on the same lines if (a*d)*d=a*(d*d)=d.

By definition associativity is defined on a,b,c
element of set S and not two elements of the set.

x*y (ie, left*top) can be followed.

Regards Sarath.





--- BillyGOTO <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, Aug 28, 2003 at 12:14:20AM -0700, Sarad AV
> wrote:
> > hi,
> > 
> > Table shown is completed to define 'associative'
> > binary operation * on S={a,b,c,d}. 
> > 
> > *|a|b|c|d
> > -
> > a|a|b|c|d
> > -
> > b|b|a|c|d
> > -
> > c|c|d|c|d
> > -
> > d|d|c|c|d
> > 
> > 
> > The operation * is associative iff (a*b)*c=a*(b*c)
> for
> > all a,b,c element of set S.
> 
> > So can (a*d)*d=a*(d*d)=d considered as associative
> > over * for this case as per definition?
> 
> a   d   d   d
>  \ / \ /
>   d   d   a   d
>\ / \ /
> d   =   d
> 
> What's the problem?
> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

Re: paradoxes of randomness

[Sarad AV]

hi,

--- martin f krafft <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Okay- I need 5 bits to represent 32 coins.I count
> as
> > coin 0,coin 1,... coin 31.
> 
> No, you can't count coin 0. Or how will you
> represent no coins?

I thought i could use the null set to point to the
first coin,simply as a one to one mapping but then i
can't represent no coins. Thanks for the
clarification.

Regards Sarath.





__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

Re: paradoxes of randomness

[Sarad AV]

hi,

Hope you can help on this.

--- Tim May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


> I hope you are not saying that you think there will
> always be 16 heads 
> and 16 tails!

In a perfectly random experiment,how many tails and
how many heads do we get?


thanks.

Regards Sarath.

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

Re: *** GMX Spamverdacht *** Re: paradoxes of randomness

[Sarad AV]

hi,

Thank you-one more question.
Will the information obtained from the 2^32 tests have
a zero compression rate? 
If one of the occurance should yield all heads and one
occurance yields all tails-there appears to be scope
for compression.

If the output is random,then it will have no
mathametical structure,so I shouldn't be able to
compress it at all.


Regards Sarath.





--- Dave Howe <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> for a sufficiently large sample you *should* see
> roughly equal numbers of
> heads and tails in the average case - but :
> for 32 coins in 2^32 tests you should see:
> one occurance of all heads (and one of all tails)
> 32 occurances of one tail, 31 heads (and 32 of one
> head, 31 tails)
> 496 occurances of two
> and so forth up the chain
> none of these are guaranteed - it *is* random after
> all - but given a
> sufficiently large number of tests, statistically
> you should see the
> above.
> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

Re: paradoxes of randomness

[Sarad AV]

hi,

Okay- I need 5 bits to represent 32 coins.I count as
coin 0,coin 1,... coin 31.
If it is a perfectly random fair coin throwing
experiment,then 50 percent of them will be heads.

So I know that 16 of them will be heads.

What we do is i simply place all the 32 coins on the
table in a row or column.
I look at the first coin and determine if it is a head
or a tail. I repeat the same proccess till i count 16
heads. If I count 15 heads at coin 31, then I cant
reduce the entropy. How ever, if i count 16 heads at
coin 30,then I dont have to check that coin 31,I
already know its a tail,so I have less than 5 bits of
entropy.

So if it is a perfectly random experiment,I wouldn't
get 16 heads before i look at coin 31,which is the
last coin and thats what you said-isn't it?

So how did chaitin get to compress the information
from k instances of the turing machine in

http://www.cs.umaine.edu/~chaitin/summer.html 

under the sub-section redundant?

he says-
"Is this K bits of mathematical information? K
instances of the halting problem will give us K bits
of Turing's number. Are these K bits independent
pieces of information? Well, the answer is no, they
never are. Why not? Because you don't really need to
know K yes/no answers, it's not really K full bits of
information. There's a lot less information. It can be
compressed. Why? "




If the input programs are truely random-there is no
redundancy and thats a contradiction to the claim in
the paper.

Thanks.

Regards Sarath.



>It's simple, if I am correct. The redundancy simply
> makes you care
> less about the specific instance you are looking at.
> 
> > To represent 32 coins-i need 5 bits of
> information.
> > Since the experiment is truely random-i know half
> of
> > them will be heads,so in this case using 5 bits of
> > information,i can determine all the coins that are
> > heads and that are tails.
> 
> Same deal, unless you are counting pairs, in which
> case you cannot
> distinguish between the members of a pair. You need
> an extra bit to
> tell a head from a tail.
> 
> > So-the question is what is the minimum number of
> bits
> > or entropy required to determine which all coins
> are
> > heads and which all coins are tails,is it 5 bits
> or 6
> > bits of information?
> 
> With 5 bits, you can count to 31, so you need 6.
> 
> Just my two tails.
> 

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

paradoxes of randomness-errata

[Sarad AV]

>it comes to such a question-

>I do a fair coin throwing experiment with 64 coins.

>To represent 64 coins,i need 5  bits of information.


To represnet 64 coins,i need 6 bits of infomation :)

Regards Sarath.

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

Q on associative binary operation

[Sarad AV]

hi,

how do we complete this table

Table shown may be completed to define 'associative'
binary operation * on S={a,b,c,d}. Assume this is
possible and compute the missing entries


*|a|b|c|d
-
a|a|b|c|d
-
b|b|a|c|d
-
c|c|d|c|d
-
d| | | |


Its clear for commutativity but I am a trifle confused
on how we do it for associativity.

Thank you.

Regards Sarath.

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

Re: Schneier favoring drivers licenses for info superhighway?

[Sarad AV]

I think its a joke taken out of context by the media.

Sarath.


--- "Major Variola (ret.)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
http://www2.ocregister.com/ocrweb/ocr/article.do?id=56662§ion=BUSINESS&subsection=BUSINESS&year=2003&month=9&day=12
> 
> So why not institute mandatory education before
> people can go online?
> After all, motorists must obtain licenses before
> they can legally hit
> the road, and computers are much more complicated.
> 
> "It could be a four-year college degree, a one-month
> course. It might be
> a good idea," said Bruce Schneier, chief technology
> officer for
> Counterpane Internet Security Inc.
> 
> Or it might be a bad idea.
> 
> "The downside is everybody you know won't be able to
> have a computer
> anymore, and I like being able to send e-mail to
> friends," Schneier
> said.
> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

Re: Drunken US Troops Kill Rare Tiger

[Sarad AV]

hi,

Vote for some one who promises freedom,democracy and
development. Is that so hard?

Sarath.


--- Tyler Durden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> I guess in the end we are responsible for the
> actions our government takes. 
> And if we remain ignorant and continue to benefit
> (and do nothing to stop 
> it), then we are responsible, particularly when our
> military represents an 
> outrageously assymetric invasionary force.
 




__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

Re: Drunken US Troops Kill Rare Tiger

[Sarad AV]

hi,

You may then need to pass a bill that gives you the
right to kick them out of office if they don't
fullfill atleast 50% of what they promised in a given
time frame.


Sarath.


--- John Kelsey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 04:37 AM 9/22/03 -0700, you wrote:
> >hi,
> >
> >Vote for some one who promises freedom,democracy
> and
> >development. Is that so hard?
> 
> They all *promise* that.
> 
> >Sarath.
> 
> --John Kelsey, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> PGP: FA48 3237 9AD5 30AC EEDD  BBC8 2A80 6948 4CAA
> F259
> 
> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free, easy-to-use web site design software
http://sitebuilder.yahoo.com

Re: base conversion

[Sarad AV]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] ,good work!



--- Tim May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Wednesday, October 8, 2003, at 06:16  AM, Sarad
> AV wrote:
> 
> > hi,
> >
> > If we are to convert a k-bit integer n to a base b
> > number,it takes us O(log n) if the base b is a
> power
> > of 2.
> > eg. converting (1)base to base 16
> >
> > 0001 
> >   ^^
> >   1F  in hex.
> >
> > using a look up table.
> >
> > Is there an algorithm with time complexity O(log
> n)
> > which allows such conversion to base b ,when b is
> not
> > a power of 2?
> >
> 
> I have decoded this latest bit of "homework stego"
> and have found the 
> plaintext:
> 
> "Attack the Islamic Center in Hyderabad at the rise
> of the new moon."
> 
> 
> I assume Sarad's readers have now gotten
> coordinated.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --Tim May
> "Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left
> alone.
> I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always
> looking for a handout"  
> --Unknown Usenet Poster
> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

Re: base conversion

[Sarad AV]

helo,

thank you for the reply.

 
> The algorithm you describe is linear, not log. 
> Complexity measures are a
> function of the size of the input data set in bits. 
> In general, a large
> integer M will require an input around N = LOG2(M)
> bits to represent.

If we are to convert a k-bit integer n to a base b
number,it takes us O(log n) if the base b is a power
of 2 is still a correct statement.

Say if we are to multiply a k-bit integer n with the
same k-bit integer n,  i.e multiplying 
integer n with k-bits by itself.


The multiplication takes atmost k^2 bit operations.

eg.

n=5=101 base 2.

i.e the multiplication takes atmost 3^2=9 bit
operations.
Thus multiplication of O(k^2) for a constant c and
n>=no.

All logarithms are to the base 2.

Since k=[log n]+1

k^2=([log n]+1)^2
in our example

= ([log 5]+1)^2

=3^3=9 operations.

it is correct to write O(log n)=O(k), as n or k are
the inputs to an algorithm whose time complexity is to
be determined. O(log n)=O(k)is the time the algorithm
takes for processing the input which are essenctially
the same.
 

> You ask whether there are linear algorithms for
> arbitrary precision base
> conversion.

yes,I was asking if there is an algorithm in 
O(k)=O(log n) to convert a k-bit integer n to
arbitrary base. I only know to do it in O(k^2).


thanks,
Sarath


__
Do you Yahoo!?
The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search
http://shopping.yahoo.com

Re: "If you DON'T use encryption, you help the terrorists win"

[Sarad AV]

HI,

>TD wrote-
> that, increased use of 
> crypto implies increased cost of monitoring. 

If a larger population starts using cryptography, we
can compare it to U.S mail. The govt. any way can't go
through all the snail mails due to its sheer volume.
They rely on other methods to detect and nullify
terror threats. Even if every one started using
encryption, the govt will not spend any money to
decrypt all the messages. The govt will use other
mechanisms(intelligece) to detect which cipher text is
worth breaking. More people using cryptography is good
for the crypto community, in terms of dollars,interest
and development in this particular area.

Sarath.



--- Tyler Durden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Tim May wrote...
> 
> "But silliness about "if everybody used encryption,
> then..." is just that, 
> silliness."
> 
> You seem to miss my point here (and in general), and
> since this is probably 
> the closest area in which we agree, I'd suggest it's
> worthwhile examining 
> this.
> 
> Let's first of all agree that the proliferation of
> crypto is a good thing. 
> If crypto is rarely used, then MY usage of it is
> actually almost worse 
> (depending on context) than using it. More than
> that, increased use of 
> crypto implies increased cost of monitoring. The $$$
> nature of the 
> assymmetry is mirrored precisely by the
> calculational assymetry. Ideally, it 
> seems to me that this should be exploited.
> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Exclusive Video Premiere - Britney Spears
http://launch.yahoo.com/promos/britneyspears/

Re: Deniable data storage

[Sarad AV]

hi,

Keep

K =Original Key
P =Original Plain Text
C =Original cipher text
D=Dummy plain text
C'=Dummy cipher text
K'=Dummy key

use a symmetric key encryption algorithm with a secret
key 'k' over plain text 'P' to obtain cipher text 'C'

Then we find

k'= C (xor) D

Preferably D is atleast as long as C.

Now we can claim we used k' as one time pad to
encrypt.
 
When the police decrypts they obtain
D= C (xor) k', the dummy plain text.

This is not an efficient algorithm but even if you did
have one, this is not a very good idea because the
secret police will first get the dummy key and when
they see there is nothing of significance in the plain
text, they will beat the original key out of us and I
dont suppose any democracy in the world prevents this
from happening :-)


Regards Sarath.

--- "James A. Donald" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I want to store information deniably.
> 
> So there would be a fixed sized block of data, say
> one megabyte, 
> increasing by multiples of 8 as needed.
> 
> This would contain various items of information that
> one could 
> extract by supplyin a secret, symmetric, key.   A
> random key would 
> extract a block of gibberish of random length  
> There would be no 
> indication as to how many bits of meaningful data
> were stored in the 
> block, though obviously they would have to add up to
> less than the 
> size of the block.
> 
> So one could store one's password list under one
> key, and the 
> location of the dead bodies under another key, and
> absent that key, 
> there would be no evidence that they key, or
> information hidden under 
> that key, existed.
> 
> What is a good algorithm for this?
> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree

Re: Jews Go Nuclear

[Sarad AV]

hi,

Enimies enemy=friend. but for how long?

Sarath.



--- Eric Cordian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> So much for non-proliferation of "weapons of mass
> destruction", right?
> 
>
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/international/story/0,6903,10613
> 
> -
> 
> Israel deploys nuclear arms in submarines
> Peter Beaumont in London and Conal Urquhart in
> Jerusalem
> Sunday October 12, 2003
> The Observer
> 
> Israeli and American officials have admitted
> collaborating to deploy
> US-supplied Harpoon cruise missiles armed with
> nuclear warheads in
> Israel's fleet of Dolphin-class submarines, giving
> the Middle East's only
> nuclear power the ability to strike at any of its
> Arab neighbours.
> 
> ...
> 
> -- 
> Eric Michael Cordian 0+
> O:.T:.O:. Mathematical Munitions Division
> "Do What Thou Wilt Shall Be The Whole Of The Law"


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Protect your identity with Yahoo! Mail AddressGuard
http://antispam.yahoo.com/whatsnewfree

Re: cypherpunks discussions

[Sarad AV]

hi,

I just a pick a book and learn and if i am in doubt,
ofcourse i do have a lot of stupid ones. but thats how
i learn.

I have friends who will help me with my queries. I
prefer not getting flamed like every one else and that
too in quick succesion :-). so my guess is that as far
as newbies are concerned all the discussions are taken
private.

Moreover,there is no loss in interest in cryptography,
we pursue it with our heart and soul.

Sarath.



At 03:26 PM 12/7/03 -0800, Tim May wrote:
>But even if crypto got trendy again, I just don't see
the young
>students of today flocking to our particular mailing
list. Too many
>other choices. Probably they'll read someone's daily
blog

A few observations.

Nowadays, colleges offer courses in crypto.
This was not the case when I started reading this
list.

And 'net social issues were not widely discussed; now
there are many fora and public organizations that one
can look at.  Probably college courses on that, too.

So *perhaps* neophytes interested in these things have
many more places to learn.   Just an optimistic
possibility.
I did much like your "the nose rings of the followers"
comment
though.



__
Do you Yahoo!?
New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
http://photos.yahoo.com/

Re: cypherpunks discussions

[Sarad AV]

hi,


Asking questions is part of learning. Unless one
learns how is he expected to participate and make once
in a while intelliget discussions? 

Give noobs some space and time to learn and over time
they will contribute to the list.

I think when I was a kid, it took me quite a few
months to learn to walk. I beleive you also learned to
walk taking as much time as did. But nobody chopped
off my leg or your leg when we couldn't walk.


Sarath.



--- Tim May <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> As for you, I have dumped on you because most of
> your posts to the list 
> look a lot like you are asking for help on a
> homework problem or have 
> just semi-randomly pulled an example out of a crypto
> or algebra book 
> and have decided to "participate" in the list by
> asking if anyone knows 
> the answer to some puzzle.
> 
> "hi,
> 
> Table shown is completed to define 'associative'
> binary operation * on S={a,b,c,d}.
> ...
> So can (a*d)*d=a*(d*d)=d considered as associative
> over * for this case as per definition?"
> 
> and
> 
> "hi,
> 
> If we are to convert a k-bit integer n to a base b
> number,it takes us O(log n) if the base b is a power
> ...
> Is there an algorithm with time complexity O(log n)
> which allows such conversion to base b ,when b is
> not
> a power of 2?"
> 
> are just two of your more recent examples.
> 
> Now if you had told us you were implementing a
> crypto system for use in 
> India (where I think you are from...), and had run
> into a tough 
> problem, these might be interesting for people to
> comment on.
> 
> A more fruitful sort of post might be for you to

> But to post snippets of problems out of textbooks is
> NOT participation 
> in the topics of the list. Think about it.
>I wish you no ill-will, but you should find ways to
>participate which 
>suggest you are actually reading what others are
>saying and giving your 
>own views or responses to them.




__
Do you Yahoo!?
New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
http://photos.yahoo.com/

Re: Don't worry...it's just one of Saddam's doubles

[Sarad AV]

--- Tyler Durden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> Well, of course "Saddam" is going to test
> positive...he's apparently an 
> actual CLONE.
> Actually, from what I understand this is the
> 'original' Saddam (note how 
> much older he seems than the Saddams we've been
> seeing in the press over the 
> last few years


may be he didnt dye is hair . Its very hard to say who
really got caught. Lets see how the attacks on
coilation troops progess in iraq. It should give us
idea who really is in control.

Sarath.

__
Do you Yahoo!?
New Yahoo! Photos - easier uploading and sharing.
http://photos.yahoo.com/

Re: Engineers in U.S. vs. India

[Sarad AV]

 
> "Today, Bangalore stands ahead of Bay Area, San
> Francisco and California,
> with a lead of 20,000 techies, while employing a
> total number of 1.5 lakh
> engineers."

I live in bangalore,those figures are correct.


> However, the educational system has to be seen to be
> fully appreciated.
> I spent several months in Calcutta over a couple of
> years.  During at
> least one visit there were riots at the university;
> the papers reported
> bodies hanging from trees.  Many had been shot. 
> Same story: students
> protested because they were stopped from openly
> exchanging papers,
> consulting books, or just chatting with friends
> during examinations.

Lets be a little fair here, just copying and just
chatting during exams are malpractices, the students
have much political support and relegious support in
these places.
As for openly consulting books durin exam,most of the
universities don't conduct open book exams,except may
be at the iit's.Its a malpractice,elsewhere.

The university sends special squads appointed by the
university itself to check exam malpractices, how ever
if the students counter the squad with sickles and
knifes and swords-it becomes a common practice that
the invigilators get armed police protection. So,in a
riot when the students are out to kill,very little can
be done to protect themselves and people sadly,get
killed.

There are a few sensitive spots in india but where I
am and in South India,we had no such encounters as
yet.

 
> Such education as occurred largely involved rote
> learning, often based
> on texts many years out of date.

We learn the fundamentals of enginnering,the basic
books of engg. are always the same,we may miss a few
updates and advances,thats all.

> My impression is that India has a few excellent
> institutions and a vast
> number of unbelievably bad schools.  

We dont the have resources like you have in the U.S.
 
Sarath.

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus

Re: Engineers in U.S. vs. India

[Sarad AV]

--- Jim Dixon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Meaning that 150,000 engineers are employed in
> Bangalore?  Does this
> include software engineers, HTML coders,
> programmers, computer scientists?

Computer scientists are very few. Most engineering
colleges and teachers emphasis simple on coding. If
you know c/c++/oracle etc.. and good analytical skills
and communication skills- one can get a job in
bangalore if you have a computer engg. degree.

The math education system from schools to colleges is
pathetic. They simply give us the final formula,they
dont bother to derive the  equation or give any
insight or intution of the problem. Most south indian
students are weak at math.

I see Steve Mynott's comment. Thats the cream,who
usually emigrate. You get to see some of the very
best.

> Does it include say railway engineers, truck
> mechanics, the guy who fixes
> your air conditioning?

no,they don't.These are usual who do diploma. These
people in india  have better practial experience and
aptitude than engineers.
Software engineers are given a proper degree by the
university.

> In the same vein, what does 'techie' mean in the
> article quoted?  When the
> article says that Bangalore has a lead of 20,000
> techies over California,
> exactly what is this supposed to mean?

It would mean that bangalore has around 16000 to 17000
programmers.The other 3000 would be computer
scientists.By computer scientists,I mean those people
who has indepth knowledge of theory of algorithms,more
of theorotical computer science.They can present you
with the final algorithm and all the others have to do
is code it.

Sarath.

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus

Re: Lunar Colony

[Sarad AV]

Setting up a base at mars is not a bad idea.
Building a nuclear war head is a costly affair and no
one complains about it,when u never know who will
strike and where it will strike. So,spending billions
of dollars for a mar mission is certainly not a
problem.you never know when it might come in handy :-)
There are bigger issues to be solved,why go after
this.

Sarath.



--- John Kelsey <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 05:28 PM 1/15/04 -0600, bgt wrote:
> ...
> >I had wondered how long it would take for the
> inevitable U.S.
> >announcement of a renewed push for lunar and mars
> colonization after
> >the Chinese announced their plans to colonize and
> mine the moon
> >awhile ago.
> 
> Well, we needed to find someplace even more remote,
> desolate, and 
> godforsaken than Afghanistan for our next
> conquest
> 
> >--bgt
> 
> --John Kelsey, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> PGP: FA48 3237 9AD5 30AC EEDD  BBC8 2A80 6948 4CAA
> F259
> 
> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Hotjobs: Enter the "Signing Bonus" Sweepstakes
http://hotjobs.sweepstakes.yahoo.com/signingbonus

cloak their secrets? (fwd from dave@farber.net)

[Sarad AV]

if  terrorists used compression instead of
cryptography,it is not possible to determine that they
are terrorists in the first place. If some one knows
that,the given person is a terrorist,you can bust him
whether or not he uses cryptography.Just because 
terrorist uses cryptograhy, doesn't allow others to
identify him as a terrorist and if you cant identify a
terrorist,it is immaterial that he uses crypto or not.

This never should be the reason for govt. to moderate
cryotography in the future.


Sarath.
--- Eugen Leitl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> - Forwarded message from Dave Farber
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -
> 
> From: Dave Farber <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 15:26:52 -0500
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [IP] Are terrorists using encryption to
> cloak
>   their secrets?
> X-Mailer: munch
> X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 6.0.2.0
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> Delivered-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Date: Tue, 03 Feb 2004 13:44:02 -0500
> From: Declan McCullagh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> ---
> 
> Date: Mon,  2 Feb 2004 10:20:36 -0500
> From: "Matthew S. Hamrick"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: Are Terrorists Using Crypto?
> 
> Once again I've had to defend the domestic use of
> encryption technology. My
> latest "opinion" is at
>
http://www.cryptonomicon.net/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=645
> . I
> don't know if it's of any value to either of you
> guys, but I thought I would
> pass it along anyway.
> 
> -Matt H.
> 
> -- 
> One Ringtone to rule them all, one Carrier to find
> them,
> One Phone to bring them all and to the Service
> Contract bind them.
> 
> __
> 
> -
> You are subscribed as [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To manage your subscription, go to
>  http://v2.listbox.com/member/?listname=ip
> 
> Archives at:
>
http://www.interesting-people.org/archives/interesting-people/
> 
> - End forwarded message -
> -- Eugen* Leitl http://leitl.org";>leitl
>
__
> ICBM: 48.07078, 11.61144   
> http://www.leitl.org
> 8B29F6BE: 099D 78BA 2FD3 B014 B08A  7779 75B0 2443
> 8B29 F6BE
> http://moleculardevices.org
> http://nanomachines.net
> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

Re: Indian Govt bans pre-paid cell because of "separatists"

[Sarad AV]

hi,

The threat from seperatists is very real from north
eastern states of india, the terrain is full of
mountains and jungle, the army itself go in big groups
in this region. Private gun owner ship(smuggled) are
very high in this part of the country.

Sarath.


--- Bill Stewart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/3448581.stm
> 
> The Indian government has banned the sale of
> pre-paid cash cards for cell
> phones in the northeastern states of Assam and
> Meghalaya, allegedly
> because separatists have bought lots of them for
> hard-to-trace
> communications.  Reliance Telephone, who runs cell
> service in those areas,
> didn't feel they had a choice about complying.  (If
> it were VSNL, the
> former telecom monopoly, that'd be no surprise, but
> Reliance is a big
> competitor.)  Consumer groups are extremely upset
> and vocal (at least
> until their current phone cards run out, at which
> point they'll become
> much quieter...)  We'll see how long Bogus Homeland
> Security can override
> consumers and smugglers.-- 
> 
> Bill Stewart [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
> 
> 
> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! SiteBuilder - Free web site building tool. Try it!
http://webhosting.yahoo.com/ps/sb/

Re: 5 million on terrorism list

[Sarad AV]

is it true or just another make up so as to make its
citizens feel justified when they go invade another
nation.How much effort does it take to get credible
information of 5 million people oveseas?

Sarath.

--- "R. A. Hettinga" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>

> 
>  U.S. security agents have a master list of five
> million people worldwide
> thought to be potential terrorists or criminals,
> officials say. "The U.S.
> lookout index contains some five million names of
> known terrorists and
> other persons representing a potential problem,"
> Brian Davis, a senior
> Canadian immigration official in Paris

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online.
http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

RE: Gentlemen don't read each others' mail

[Sarad AV]

They must be doing it all time.It now just turned out
as a diplomatic issue.

Sarath.

--- Tyler Durden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Looks like the UN's going to need some encrypted
> VoIP...
> -TD
> 
> 
> >From: "Major Variola (ret.)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Subject: Gentlemen don't read each others' mail
> >Date: Thu, 26 Feb 2004 13:39:22 -0800
> >
> >Britain Accused of Spying on U.N.'s Annan
> >
> >LONDON (AP) - Britain spied on U.N.
> Secretary-General Kofi Annan in the
> >build up to the Iraq war, a former Cabinet minister
> said Thursday,
> >triggering yet another postwar crisis for Prime
> Minister Tony Blair
> >
>
>http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040226/D80V5N901.html
> >
> >
> >Gentlemen don't read each others' mail
> >Unless they're at war..
> >And we have always been at war with Oceania bin
> Laden
> >
> >
> >
> >
> 
>
_
> Take off on a romantic weekend or a family adventure
> to these great U.S. 
> locations.
http://special.msn.com/local/hotdestinations.armx


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Get better spam protection with Yahoo! Mail.
http://antispam.yahoo.com/tools

Re: Fwd: Re: Don't Panic - Not All Jobs Are Headed Overseas

[Sarad AV]

> Most of the .com's I've worked at, the CEO was hired
> to do one single 
> thing: pump up the image of the company to make it
> look like a big jucy 
> steak when it was all crap internally, then sell the
> turd off to a sucker. 
>   This of course results in the immediate job loss
> of 90% of the employees, 
> etc.
> 

Very true :)

Its election year in U.S. Once they are over,they
would pass another bill that would again allow
outsourcing. 

Who wouldn't want to get their works at cheaper rates.
Now a days,in Indian call centers,people with Mother
Tongue Influence are not taken for the job.They are
also asked to keep their normal accent and not to
mimick the british or american way of speech,most of
them here try the british accent.

May be in one or two years,speech should appear
neutral and no signs of culture would be
detected.Except for the Slangs,communication should be
clear.

Sarath.


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Search - Find what you’re looking for faster
http://search.yahoo.com

Re: Evidence is clear: Videos convict

[Sarad AV]

doesn't sound good,hope all the court rooms will be
able to authenticate the tape,I mean a very good
editing tool and a CG expert working on it may come
out with real frightening stuff.
Who would say that the dinasours of jurrasic park
didn't look real :)

Sarath.


--- "R. A. Hettinga" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>

> 
> The Orange County Register
> 
> Monday, March 8, 2004
> 
>  Evidence is clear: Videos convict
>   And sometimes it's the accused themselves who
> provide the taped version
> of the smoking gun.
> 
> 
>  By LARRY WELBORN
>  The Orange County Register
> 
> 
>  Twelve jurors and two alternates sat almost
> unblinkingly in a 10th-floor
> courtroom and watched a 21-minute videotape on two
> television monitors.
> 
> Some squirmed in the swivel seats in the jury box
> but their eyes remained
> riveted on the screens, watching images of two men
> having sex with an
> apparently unconscious woman in a Newport Beach
> apartment as techno music
> droned in the background.
> 
> The trial of Allen Ward Crocker provided jurors with
> a rare chance to see
> exactly what happened in a case of alleged sexual
> assault.
> 
>  Most of the time, jurors must decide guilt or
> innocence based on witness
> memories, documents or expert testimony. But with
> the inexpensive but
> still-sharp video cameras in existence these days,
> videotaped evidence is
> becoming more and more common in criminal
> courtrooms, veteran lawyers say.
> 
> The Crocker case has similarities to the pending
> prosecution of Gregory
> Haidl, the son of an assistant sheriff, and two of
> his teenage friends.
> 
>  They face trial next month in the alleged rape of
> an unconscious
> 16-year-old girl in July 2002.
> 
>  Haidl, 18, videotaped the encounter in Newport
> Beach, and now prosecutors
> are using those images against him.
> 
>  The accused aren't the only ones providing police
> with videotape to show
> jurors.
> 
>  In Los Angeles, an amateur photographer recorded
> the notorious videotape
> of Rodney King being beaten by Los Angeles police
> officers. And in Orange
> County, a surveillance camera at a convenience store
> captured images of a
> former mental patient murdering sheriff's Deputy
> Brad Riches.
> 
>  "I call it the proliferation of Little Brother,"
> said Costa Mesa defense
> attorney Paul S. Meyer, who has prosecuted and
> defended in criminal cases
> in Orange County for more than 30 years. "You know,
> just about everyone has
> a video camera these days. It's only common sense
> that these videotapes are
> showing up in trials."
> 
> In the Crocker case, it took the eight-man,
> four-woman jury just 90 minutes
> to reach a verdict: guilty of rape.
> 
> Deputy District Attorney Steve McGreevy argued that
> the videotape clearly
> depicted a crime-in-progress: The woman was
> unconscious after an evening of
> bar-hopping in Newport Beach and unable to give
> consent.
> 
>  Defense attorney Robert Chatterton insisted that
> the videotape showed that
> if the woman was unconscious, then Crocker, 36, of
> Tustin, was unaware of
> it. Crocker had a good-faith belief that the woman
> consented to sex,
> Chatterton argued.
> 
>  "We were able to witness it ourselves," said juror
> Kristina Durbin, 27, a
> health-care worker who lives in Mission Viejo.
> "Without the videotape, I
> wouldn't have been able to reach the decision
> because he would have been
> able to put doubt in my mind. But with the
> videotape, the crime he was
> charged with was right in front of me."
> 
>  The rape was caught on tape because Crocker's
> friend and alleged
> accomplice, Tim Marino, 41, started his video camera
> rolling after the
> victim passed out.
> 
>  The victim testified that she didn't know what was
> happening to her and
> didn't know that the episode had been videotaped.
> 
> A $500,000 arrest warrant has been issued for
> Marino, who never kept an
> appointment with a Newport Beach police detective
> after an investigation of
> the Sept. 14, 2003, encounter was launched.
> 
>  Prominent Orange County defense attorney Jennifer
> Keller, a former deputy
> public defender and a former president of the Orange
> County Bar
> Association, said videotaped crimes won't be so rare
> in the future.
> 
> "It seems everything we do now is recorded or
> videotaped," Keller said. "To
> our children, video cameras are second nature."
> 
> Assistant District Attorney Roseanne Froeberg, head
> of the office's
> sex-crimes unit, said there have been sporadic cases
> in the past in which
> rapes or other sex crimes were memorialized on
> videotape. But she said she
> is seeing more of them lately.
> 
> "It does make it easier for us to prosecute when
> criminals videotape
> themselves in the act," she said. "But to me, it is
> a sad commentary on our
> society. Videotaping their perversions for sport
> takes things to different
> level. An incredibly ugly level, in my opinion."
> 
> Sa

Re: I'd recognise that ear, anywhere

[Sarad AV]

Perhaps,its because they need the funds. Have to pull
wool over their eyes,to get the money.

--- sunder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> R. A. Hettinga wrote:
> 
> > Hmmm... Actual progress on old news is new news,
> right?
> 
> Not when it pretends to be a new and wonderful idea,
> and ignores its past.
> 
> Sort of like Apple announcing the world's first 64
> bit desktop computer 
> when many of us have had DEC Alpha's and UltraSPARC
> machines on our desks 
> since the early/mid 90's -- for example.  (And then
> it turns out, they 
> don't even have a 64 bit OS for it yet!)
> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
http://mail.yahoo.com

inverse finding

[Sarad AV]

hi,


if gcd(a,m)=1,
for a*a inverse==1 mod m
is it better to find
a invese=a^(m-2) mod m   by binary exponentiation
modulo m  or is it more time efficient by extended
euclids algorithm for large 'm'?

thanks.
Sarath.

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: inverse finding

[Sarad AV]

I can't stop outsourcing.Don't blame me.Blame your own
govt.

Sarath.


--- "Major Variola (ret)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 09:55 PM 3/12/04 -0800, Sarad AV wrote:
> >if gcd(a,m)=1,
> >for a*a inverse==1 mod m
> >is it better to find
> >a invese=a^(m-2) mod m   by binary exponentiation
> >modulo m  or is it more time efficient by extended
> >euclids algorithm for large 'm'?
> 
> I dunno, why don't you think about it some?
> 
> How are you going to land a sweet outsourced job
> if you ask others to do your homework?
> 
> 
> 
> 


__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: inverse finding

[Sarad AV]

--- Tyler Durden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> And are you trying to suggest (On Cypherpunks, of
> all places) that the US 
> government should somehow regulate outsourcing?

It doesnot matter what i think.Neither can I help it
It already is
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3535893.stm

Any way,I am enlightened. :)

Sarath.

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Mail - More reliable, more storage, less spam
http://mail.yahoo.com

Re: Diffie-Hellman question

[Sarad AV]

If your
> prime is 2000 bits,
> then that should be safe for the foreseeable future,
> unless quantum
> computers turn out to be practical for breaking
> moduli of this size.

Discrete Logarithms in GF(2^607)have been calculated
over polynomial basis.

http://listserv.nodak.edu/scripts/wa.exe?A2=ind0202&L=nmbrthry&F=&S=&P=2568


Sarath.







__
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/

Re: Diffie-Hellman question

[Sarad AV]

hi,

In Diffie Hellman key exchange we choose a large prime
in Fp. The prime is publicly known,so is g,preferably
a generator in Fp*.

The reason that you might need to change the prime
frequently is only if you donot choose g(element of)Fp
to be a generator in Fp or the prime field be too
small.
If the attacker knows the prime factorization of p-1,
where p-1=q_1*q_2*...*q_n,he can compute which of
 g^((p-1)/q_i)== 1 mod p and determine the order of g.
If it has a lower order, the attack is easier.

If you choose g of maximum order in Fp, then you will
have maximum security.

> physical retrieval of the DH prime (and the rest of
> the certificate) allow
> him to decode the captured log?

The diffie-hellman key exchange works under the
assumption that knowing only g^a and g^b, it is
computationaly infeasible for the attacker to
calculate g^(ab) and breaking it is conjenctured to be
as hard as the discrete log problem.

Sarath.




__
Do you Yahoo!?
SBC Yahoo! - Internet access at a great low price.
http://promo.yahoo.com/sbc/