Re: this post is not off-topic

[Derrick 'dman' Hudson]

On Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 02:43:13AM -0700, David Wright wrote:
| 
| I'll ignore the ad hominem. How about a poll at debianplanet?
| 
| ( ) No architecture should move forward untill all can move
| forward together.
| 
| ( ) i386 and PPC should take priority; other architectures
| can follow when they're ready.

What!?  PPC takes priority!?  I thought you didn't want to support
obscure architectures!

I just came from a 5-day computer-geek conference at which I only saw
1 Mac (with OSX) and talk of Macs didn't really come up.  Everyone was
talking about Windows on Pentium-class machines, though there were
some groups discussing linux and using linux server-side (mostly RH).
(actually, one guy won a prize because he has an XT machine with
MS-DOS 3.2 actually doing some useful work at his organization)

In fact, the last Mac I used was a Mac Classic and one that looked like
it but had COLOR.  That was in 8th grade, in 1993.  They weren't even
PPC!

If you want to support PPC, then I think you'll have to concede and
allow people to support HPPA, IA64, s390 and every other arch they
want.

-D

-- 

"...the word HACK is used as a verb to indicate a massive amount
of nerd-like effort."  -Harley Hahn, A Student's Guide to Unix
 
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Re: Debian: abandon ship?

[Noah Meyerhans]

On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 03:59:41PM -0400, Carl Fink wrote:
> I'm using 2.4.18 myself, but that isn't relevant to the original
> poster's request for a stable distribution using (meaning something
> like "coming with") a 2.4.x kernel.


But woody does come with kernel 2.4.x.  Just because it's not installed
by default doesn't mean it's not there or not supported.  It's fully
supported and part of the distribution.  Not only that, but if you need
some feature of 2.4 during installation, you can use the bf2.4
installation disks.

I don't think there should be any issue with the kernel version included
with woody.

noah

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Re: Debian: abandon ship?

[David Wright]

> I doubt that this would be a useful metric, given that people
> tracking less-stable versions are likely to be updating more
> frequently.

It is possible to count unique IPs, rather than bytes. Another poster
pointed out the problem of local archives, but there is no reason to
assume that stable users are more or less likely to use local arhives that
unstable users, so that shouldn't skew the ratios.

Yes, even this would not be a perfect measure. But I bet it would be quite
good. And it would be possible to quantify how good by doing a bootstrap.

I for one would be interested in the total number of unique IPs that
accessed each official archive in the last, say, 3 months. (If someone
will send me the logs, I'll compile the statistics myself -- but I imagine
that would raise privacy concerns.)


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Re: Upgrade to Woody

[D.J. Bolderman]

  seb bastos wrote:


in'st it the 'stable' field to be replace by 'testing'???
Bastos


No. There are 3 options. Stable, Unstable and Testing.



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Re: Debian: abandon ship?

[Manoj Srivastava]

>>"David" == David Wright <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

 >> It's not really at all clear that this was where the mistake lay.
 David> I never thought I would be advocating more management, but here goes...

 David> Debian, as another poster pointed out, has grown from ~50 to
 David> ~2000 developers. And those developers, being "geeks" rather
 David> than "suits", respond to problems by working harder on their
 David> jobs (as I believe Collin pointed out), rather than by
 David> strategic re-alignments. Other engineer-centered organizations
 David> (HP and Boeing are famous examples) have run into this problem
 David> before.

Do you have any data for this, or are you just making things
 up? The new pool system is not a reorg? The buildd and rbuilder? the
 automated BTS tracking tools? Do you actually know what is being done
 internally to deal with the issues? 

 David> I haven't experienced first-hand the styles of the previous
 David> and current RMs, but at least looking from the outside, it
 David> would seem that the current RM has been much more effective
 David> (aside from failing to take into account the security
 David> infrastructure problems) than the previous one in driving
 David> woody to release. This would seem to indicate that management
 David> can make a difference.

Perhaps the new pools and testing mechanism has something to
 do with this, hmm? 

 David> What about increasing the "management overhead" for Debian?
 David> Instead of just having DPL and RM, the RM could be given some
 David> minions, there could be PMs for different areas, etc. They
 David> would make tactical and strategic decisions regarding
 David> releases, and advertise needs as they arise.

We have the boot floppy team, the debian web pages team, the
 perl team, java people, the policy group, the debian cd people, the
 new maintainer people, the press release folks, the security team,
 the admin folks, the list masters, the ftp archive folks, the
 project secretary, the ..

All with team leaders and delegates of the DPL.

Have you even looked before you start coming in firing off
 proposals without even knowing what the problems are?

 David> There, the idea is out there; wail away at it.

Yes. Random ideas, fired off with no concept of problem
 details, no idea of the culture, and no work done researching
 anything. Guess how much this is worth?

manoj
-- 
 Instead of whining to the net about it, why don't you talk to the
 news admins at Berkeley?  If they won't trash sci.skeptic there, pass
 around a petition. Threaten to set their dog on fire.  Whatever.  If
 nothing works, you can, as a last resort, unsubscribe. Dave Mack,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED], responds to a flame in news.groups
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Re: Debian: abandon ship?

[Manoj Srivastava]

>>"Ian" == Ian D Stewart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

 Ian> But to answer your question, there are several projects I have
 Ian> an interest in.  I have even started writing code for eventual
 Ian> contribution to one of them.  You, or anybody else for that
 Ian> matter, are perfectly welcome to provide feedback regarding any
 Ian> of those projects.  Indeed most actively encourage user
 Ian> feedback.  If the feedback is in reference to an aspect I have
 Ian> in interest in or responsibility for, I will take it into
 Ian> consideration.  If I feel it is inappropriate, for what ever
 Ian> reason, I will let you know.  And I will not accuse you of
 Ian> telling me what to do.

Constructive doalogue is one thing. Telling us we made a
 mistake, and we better own up, and that debian has started to, umm,
 suck, does not strike me as constructive. As to my responses to
 feedback, look at the responses I make to people filing bugs on my
 packages. That is feed back.

manoj
-- 
 "When the only tool you have is a hammer, you tend to treat
 everything as if it were a nail." Abraham Maslow
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Re: Debian: abandon ship?

[Manoj Srivastava]

>>"John" == John Schmidt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:


 John> I certainly appreciate the multiple architecture support of Debian.  I 
 John> have it installed on a powerpc, m68k, and x86 box.  I initially 
 John> installed it on my m68k box, since Debian was the only distribution 
 John> that supported it.  I made the switch to my other boxes because I liked 
 John> the consistency of one distribution and hated the dependency mess of 
 John> rpm.  I have advocated Debian to others in my work place and will 
 John> continue to do so.  

Thank you. It is messages like this that make me continue to
 put in the time and effort for Debian.

manoj
ps: the reson I moniotr this high volume list, while most of the
developers no longer bother, is to help with question about my
packages. It is hard to maintain motivation, most of the time, were it
not for posts like this one.
-- 
 The only difference in the game of love over the last few thousand
 years is that they've changed trumps from clubs to diamonds. The
 Indianapolis Star
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Re: Debian: abandon ship?

[Carl Fink]

On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 06:43:57PM +0100, Anthony Campbell wrote:

> Surely you can use any kernel you like. I've been using 2.4.18 since it
> came out and will upgrade to 2.4.19 as soon as it's released.

I'm using 2.4.18 myself, but that isn't relevant to the original
poster's request for a stable distribution using (meaning something
like "coming with") a 2.4.x kernel.
-- 
Carl Fink   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Manager, Dueling Modems Computer Forum



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Update - RE: rc.local in debian (was: Ip Masquerading)

[Ronald Castillo]

Just to update something new I have found out.. I tried pinging my ADSL
router and my brother´s PC from my Linux box and it doesn't work either,
but it did work from my Windows PC when I had it connected directly to
my ADSL router. So, now I'm feeling pretty clueless... At least in all
my PCs (incluiding the masqueraded one) internet works perfectly.

Just in case you need it, here's a copy of my /etc/network/interfaces
file:

# /etc/network/interfaces -- configuration file for ifup(8), ifdown(8)

# The loopback interface
auto lo
iface lo inet loopback

# The first network card - this entry was created during the Debian
installation
auto eth0
iface eth0 inet static
address 10.0.0.3
netmask 255.0.0.0
gateway 10.0.0.1

iface eth1 inet static
address 10.0.0.4
network 10.0.0.0
netmask 255.0.0.0
broadcast 10.0.0.255

Just to make a note, 10.0.0.1 is the IP of my ADSL router.

Any light on this will be appreciated.

Ronald Castillo

-Original Message-
From: Ronald Castillo [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: miércoles, 05 de junio de 2002 21:40
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: RE: rc.local in debian (was: Ip Masquerading)

Hello..

I have configured my second interface as you told me (with a few
changes) and it's now working fine!!! Thanks a lot for your help to you
all!!!

Just two more questions.. I don't know if I should place "auto" on it
because the Windows box isn't permanently turned on, so I think that
Linux might show up an error message if the connection is up when the
Windows box is off, doesn´t it? Just like when I enable my other card
when it doesn't have a LAN cable in it.

The other thing is that, from the "masqueraded" PC (the windows box), I
can only ping the masquerading PC (the linux box) and not the other PCs
connected to the network (my brother´s windows PC and my linux box
connect directly to the ADSL router and my windows PC connects to the
linux box).  The PC I can't ping or access is my brother´s PC.

Thanks for your assistance so far..

Ronald Castillo

-Original Message-
From: Vineet Kumar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: martes, 04 de junio de 2002 2:26
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: rc.local in debian (was: Ip Masquerading)

* Colin Watson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [020603 16:51]:
> On Mon, Jun 03, 2002 at 11:49:54PM +0200, Ronald Castillo wrote:
> > I was thinking that I should configure my secondary LAN card (the
one
> > that connects to my "internal" network) in the
/etc/network/interfaces
> > card, but I don't know what to place there.  I have already
configured
> > the LAN card that connects me to the "outside world" without
problems.
> 
> Well, if it helps, here's an /etc/network/interfaces fragment from one
> of my machines:
> 
> iface eth1 inet static
> address 192.168.42.1
> network 192.168.42.0
> netmask 255.255.255.0
> broadcast 192.168.42.255
> 
> This brings up an interface using the second network card with IP
> address 192.168.42.1.

Also, you'll probably want to add a line that says
"auto eth1"
which will make eth1 come up automatically at boot, instead of only
after you say "ifup eth1". IIRC, though, that's new since after potato.

good times,
Vineet
-- 
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Please see http://www.doorstop.net/resume.shtml



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Re: Debian: abandon ship?

[Noah Meyerhans]

On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 02:47:59PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>   Indeed, the security team indicated that potato support would
>  have to be dropped summarily when woody was released _unless_ changes
>  were made (or a decision would have to be made to only support some
>  arches, but not all, even from the mainstream ones). This was
>  obviously unacceptable.

Obviously unacceptable?  It's how stuff has been done in the past.  How
long was it after potato's release that we dropped support for slink?
IIRC it was little more than a month.

noah

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Re: this post is not off-topic

[Derrick 'dman' Hudson]

On Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 03:49:02AM -0700, David Wright wrote:
 
| There are two justifications for supporting many architectures on
| the table:
| (1) We wanna.

Isn't this how all of OSS works?

| (2) It's for the good of the users.
 
| (2) is just not true. It would be, if Debian had sufficient resources to
| support obscure arches without hurting mainstream arch support. But
| experiment has proved that isn't the case.

Ok, I've got a s390, an HPPA, and a MIPS box on my desk here.  (just
like I have $11 million to spend on my own medical research)  How is
it *not* good for the users (me, the people who use the systems I
maintain) for debian to support those systems?  It is very good for
the user*S* for my hardware to be supported.  If you think your
systems are more important than mine, that's fine.  Put your money
where your mouth is.  Some people think "I"/"my systems" are just as
important as yours.

Doesn't it really suck to be trying to tell someone how great debian
is and what it can do only to find out they're using some hardware
that doesn't work so great (in debian)?  It kinda makes you put your
foot in your mouth.

-D

-- 

The heart is deceitful above all things
and beyond cure.
Who can understand it?

I the Lord search the heart
and examine the mind,
to reward a man according to his conduct,
according to what his deeds deserve.

Jeremiah 17:9-10
 
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Re: Debian: abandon ship?

[Manoj Srivastava]

>>"Noah" == Noah Meyerhans <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

 Noah> The 11 architecures *are* what's holding up the release.  The
 Noah> whole reason the security team needs the new build
 Noah> infrastructure is that it's not a reasonable expectation for
 Noah> them to be able to manually build updated packages for all 11
 Noah> architectures in a timely fashion.  With pototo, we were able
 Noah> to release because we didn't require such a large-scale
 Noah> automated build process for the security team since we
 Noah> supported fewer architectures.

I shall get my knuckles rapped for releasing information out
 of debian-private, but the security team expressed an inability to
 simultaneously support potato and woody (just confirmed this on IRC,
 talking with a security team member), and especially given the
 explosion of packages for woody.

Indeed, the security team indicated that potato support would
 have to be dropped summarily when woody was released _unless_ changes
 were made (or a decision would have to be made to only support some
 arches, but not all, even from the mainstream ones). This was
 obviously unacceptable.

manoj
 
-- 
 Acting is not very hard.  The most important things are to be able to
 laugh and cry.  If I have to cry, I think of my sex life.  And if I
 have to laugh, well, I think of my sex life. Glenda Jackson
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Re: his post is not off-topic

[Derrick 'dman' Hudson]

On Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 12:02:06PM +0200, Johann Spies wrote:
| On Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 04:16:49AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
| 
| > Who the hell cares about sheer numbers of users out there in
| > the wild? I sure as hell don't. If numbers had been important to me,
| > I would not have been wasting my time on Linux.
| 
| While I enjoyed the way this topic entered the list, I am not enjoying
| the personal attacks in this discussion.  I am one of the users you
| don't care for.  That is sad.

Manoj doesn't care about sheer numbers of users.  By
that he means that he won't drop support for the stuff you need just
because 500 more users will join debian.

Consider these premises :
you have an s390 on your desk.  (do they fit on desks? ;-))
Manoj has only x86 systems
releasing woody now with X 4.2 and KDE 3 (etc.) will bring 500 new
users on the debian "bandwagon".
woody isn't being released (in part) because s390 is now supported

Clearly if manoj is only interested in himself and/or the sheer number
of users, he would release woody now and ignore the fact that you need
s390 support.

Instead, as manoj said, he doesn't care for that and is glad to have
s390 support in Debian.  That's rather the opposite of not caring for
you.

HAND!
-D

-- 

One OS to rule them all, one OS to find them,
One OS to bring them all and in the darkness bind them,
In the Land of Redmond, where the Shadows lie.
 
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sysquery: no addrs found for root NS ()

[nate]

hi

I run many name servers, and a few days ago errors such
as this started appearing in one of the log files for one
of the servers:

Jun  5 06:52:20 mail-wa named[143]: sysquery: no addrs found for root NS
(name.ualberta.ca)
Jun  5 06:52:20 mail-wa named[143]: sysquery: no addrs found for root NS
(nom.ualberta.ca)
Jun  5 06:52:20 mail-wa named[143]: sysquery: no addrs found for root NS
(menaik.cs.ualberta.ca)
Jun  5 06:52:20 mail-wa named[143]: sysquery: no addrs found for root NS ()
Jun  5 06:57:22 mail-wa named[143]: sysquery: no addrs found for root NS
(SUNIC.SUNET.SE)
Jun  5 06:57:22 mail-wa named[143]: sysquery: no addrs found for root NS ()
Jun  5 06:57:27 mail-wa named[143]: sysquery: no addrs found for root NS
(ns.eunet.ch)
Jun  5 06:57:27 mail-wa named[143]: sysquery: no addrs found for root NS ()
Jun  5 06:57:27 mail-wa named[143]: sysquery: no addrs found for root NS
(ns)
Jun  5 06:57:27 mail-wa named[143]: sysquery: no addrs found for root NS ()
Jun  5 07:01:04 mail-wa named[143]: sysquery: no addrs found for root NS
(NS.PROGETELBD.NET)
Jun  5 07:01:04 mail-wa named[143]: sysquery: no addrs found for root NS ()
Jun  5 07:01:04 mail-wa named[143]: sysquery: no addrs found for root NS
(NS.PROGETELBD.NET)
Jun  5 07:01:04 mail-wa named[143]: sysquery: no addrs found for root NS ()
Jun  5 07:01:04 mail-wa named[143]: sysquery: no addrs found for root NS
(NS.PROGETELBD.NET)
Jun  5 07:01:04 mail-wa named[143]: sysquery: no addrs found for root NS ()
Jun  5 07:01:10 mail-wa named[143]: sysquery: no addrs found for root NS
(ns1.progetelbd.net)
Jun  5 07:01:10 mail-wa named[143]: sysquery: no addrs found for root NS ()
Jun  5 07:01:10 mail-wa named[143]: sysquery: no addrs found for root NS
(ns1.progetelbd.net)


the server has been running flawlessly for almost 2 years, it
is a slave nameserver only so changes to it are made on the master
which is replicated to 2 other servers which are not experierncing
this problem.

i have googled around and most of the above errors seem to
mention the root name servers inside the ()'s. the weird thing
is this does not appear to be causing any noticible inpact on
the server or the people that use it, only producing these log entries.
It is a mail server as well, and there have been no mail errors
that I have seen, and I have recieved no complaints. and I have
noticed nothing unusual about the system.

i read in this FAQ that in bind 4.x it is normal, and to ignore
it. doesn't mention BIND 8:
http://www.intac.com/~cdp/cptd-faq/section6.html

the system is behind a firewall, as is the master name server
and both of the other slaves. this particular server is configured
with forwarders of the master name server, and the other local
slave nameserver(the 2nd slave is on a remote site). the local
slave is not configured with any forwarders, the master name
server is not configured with any forwarders either.

anyone else experience it? i suppose i could just filter it from
my logs but it sort of worries me that it *just* started a
few days ago after almost 2 years of normal behavior. I have
over 7 thousand log entries with these messages in the past 3 days
from the same server.

thanks

nate





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RE: rc.local in debian (was: Ip Masquerading)

[Ronald Castillo]

Hello..

I have configured my second interface as you told me (with a few
changes) and it's now working fine!!! Thanks a lot for your help to you
all!!!

Just two more questions.. I don't know if I should place "auto" on it
because the Windows box isn't permanently turned on, so I think that
Linux might show up an error message if the connection is up when the
Windows box is off, doesn´t it? Just like when I enable my other card
when it doesn't have a LAN cable in it.

The other thing is that, from the "masqueraded" PC (the windows box), I
can only ping the masquerading PC (the linux box) and not the other PCs
connected to the network (my brother´s windows PC and my linux box
connect directly to the ADSL router and my windows PC connects to the
linux box).  The PC I can't ping or access is my brother´s PC.

Thanks for your assistance so far..

Ronald Castillo

-Original Message-
From: Vineet Kumar [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Sent: martes, 04 de junio de 2002 2:26
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: rc.local in debian (was: Ip Masquerading)

* Colin Watson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [020603 16:51]:
> On Mon, Jun 03, 2002 at 11:49:54PM +0200, Ronald Castillo wrote:
> > I was thinking that I should configure my secondary LAN card (the
one
> > that connects to my "internal" network) in the
/etc/network/interfaces
> > card, but I don't know what to place there.  I have already
configured
> > the LAN card that connects me to the "outside world" without
problems.
> 
> Well, if it helps, here's an /etc/network/interfaces fragment from one
> of my machines:
> 
> iface eth1 inet static
> address 192.168.42.1
> network 192.168.42.0
> netmask 255.255.255.0
> broadcast 192.168.42.255
> 
> This brings up an interface using the second network card with IP
> address 192.168.42.1.

Also, you'll probably want to add a line that says
"auto eth1"
which will make eth1 come up automatically at boot, instead of only
after you say "ifup eth1". IIRC, though, that's new since after potato.

good times,
Vineet
-- 
Currently seeking opportunities in the SF Bay Area
Please see http://www.doorstop.net/resume.shtml



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Re: Debian: abandon ship?

[Ian D. Stewart]

On 2002.06.05 13:47 Manoj Srivastava wrote:

>>"Ian" == Ian D Stewart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:


 Ian> Speaking only for myself, it was the condescending tone adopted
 Ian> by one of the developers (don't remember the fellow's name; he
 Ian> was the one ranting about about his $250,00/hr fee) more than
 Ian> the actual content that I found offensive.  While stating that
 Ian> you don't give a rip about the users may be intelectually
 Ian> honest, one should not be surprised when such statements
 Ian> endanger userbase loyalty.

That would be me. To bring in the context that you have
elided,
 this is exactly what I said:

 Manoj> Telling me how to spend my time comes with the obligation of
 Manoj> helping me pay my mortgage. My posted rates are $250 an hour.


No, this is what was said:


What you are missing is even a modicum of understanding of the
motivation for the people who put in the effort and do the work for
Debian -- I certainly do not do this (working 20 hours a week, over
and above the 50-60 I do for work, and trying to keep the house and
lawn in shape, etc (I also happen to run an active D&D campaign, but
well)) for the unwashed masses. Do you know what motivates the
developers? Developers most certainly do _not_ live to serve.

  As far as I have been aware, the majority of people working
for free software work because it pleases their muse (or scratches
their own particular itch). The user base helps by helping make the
software better; in return for getting to use it. Anyone can
participate -- by helping with bug reports and fizxes, patches, etc;
and even getting a say in how debian works by committing themselves
to Debian; no one tells any other volunteer how to spend their
time. All that is needed is essentially "Show us the code" (or help
us improve it). People are not excluded because we are the holiest of
the holy and outsiders are dirt. There is no core Debian team. And
users certainly are not in control; and popularity has never been a
Debian goal.  
The ``community participation'' does have limitations. Telling

me how to spend my time comes with the obligation of helping me pay
my mortgage. My posted rates are $250 an hour. Anyone telling me how
to spend my time has to pony up the moolah.


And yes, I do find it condescending.  Particularly the reference to 
'unwashed masses' and the general attitude of 'I have done this thing 
because it pleases me.  You should be content that I allow you to 
benefit from my labor.'




You have a strange definition of condescending.



So it would seem.  However, based on previous postings to the list, I 
am not alone in my unusual definitions.



Are you, then, opposed to this sentiment? Can we call on you
 and tell you how to spend your time?


I don't recall anyone telling you to do anything.  One gentleman raised 
a complaint regarding the release schedule of Woody.  Apparently, you 
interpreted this as a direct order.


But to answer your question, there are several projects I have an 
interest in.  I have even started writing code for eventual 
contribution to one of them.  You, or anybody else for that matter, are 
perfectly welcome to provide feedback regarding any of those projects.  
Indeed most actively encourage user feedback.  If the feedback is in 
reference to an aspect I have in interest in or responsibility for, I 
will take it into consideration.  If I feel it is inappropriate, for 
what ever reason, I will let you know.  And I will not accuse you of 
telling me what to do.



Regards,
Ian


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Re: Debian: abandon ship?

[Pete Harlan]

On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 12:47:17PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> >>"Ian" == Ian D Stewart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> 
> 
>  Ian> Speaking only for myself, it was the condescending tone adopted
>  Ian> by one of the developers (don't remember the fellow's name; he
>  Ian> was the one ranting about about his $250,00/hr fee) more than
>  Ian> the actual content that I found offensive.  While stating that
>  Ian> you don't give a rip about the users may be intelectually
>  Ian> honest, one should not be surprised when such statements
>  Ian> endanger userbase loyalty.
> 
>   That would be me. To bring in the context that you have elided,
>  this is exactly what I said:
> 
>  Manoj> Telling me how to spend my time comes with the obligation of
>  Manoj> helping me pay my mortgage. My posted rates are $250 an hour.
> 
>   You have a strange definition of condescending. 
> 
>   Are you, then, opposed to this sentiment? Can we call on you
>  and tell you how to spend your time? 
> 
>   manoj

He didn't say he was opposed to the sentiment.  He was saying that by
stating the obvious, you were talking down to the other person.

Granted, in an exchange in which both parties think the other side
isn't seeing plain logic, it's a fuzzy line between making yourself
crystal clear and condescension.

--Pete


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Re: Debian: abandon ship?

[Noah Meyerhans]

On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 11:30:12AM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
>   Well, this is only partially true. All architectuures for
>  Woody are ready. They are not delaying the release. What is not ready
>  is the ability to support security for woody and potato for even the
>  architectures that we have now -- not with the increased number of
>  packlages that the security team has to support.

The 11 architecures *are* what's holding up the release.  The whole
reason the security team needs the new build infrastructure is that it's
not a reasonable expectation for them to be able to manually build
updated packages for all 11 architectures in a timely fashion.  With
pototo, we were able to release because we didn't require such a
large-scale automated build process for the security team since we
supported fewer architectures.

noah

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RE: /usr/sbin/mkinitrd: ldd: command not found when installin

[Robin Putters]

On Wed, 2002-06-05 at 21:08, Charlie Grosvenor wrote:
> I have the package libc6 installed but don't have the file /usr/bin/ldd
> How can I solve this problem?
> 

apt-get install --reinstall libc6


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Re: Spam mail question

[Derrick 'dman' Hudson]

On Mon, Jun 03, 2002 at 02:34:01PM +, Paulo Henrique Baptista de Oliveira 
wrote:
| 
| Hi all,
| How to reject mail with from like this: "<>" at a Debian GNU/Linux
| box and Exim?

What you mean by "from"?  There are two meanings of it
1)  the envelope
This is specified in the
MAIL FROM:
command during the SMTP session
2)  the message itself
This is specified by the
From:
header inside the message

Email, just like snail mail, has envelopes that can (and many times
(legitimately) do) differ from the letter inside the envelope.

If the envelope is <>, then either rejecting or blackholing the message
will get you in dsn.rfc-ignorant.org.  There are a few MS worms/virii
that abuse the RFCs by setting the envelope sender to <>, and those
can be identified by other characteristics and blackholed separately.
If you're aware of such messages, try discussing it on the
spamassassin lists so that it can be properly identified and trashed.

If the message itself has "From: <>" that's a different story, and
shouldn't occur.  Again, though, see if a discussion on sa-talk can't
yield some rules for tagging (and trashing) the junk.  


One feature of exim that I really like is (version 3.x config) :
headers_check_syntax = true 

If a message has syntactically incorrect headers it will be rejected.
For example (from my rejectlog) :

2002-06-05 11:36:26 17Fdlp-0007lt-00
H=pony-express.cs.rit.edu [129.21.30.24]
F=<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
rejected after DATA: "@" or "." expected after "Not":
failing address in "To" header is: 

Obviously a spam message (routed through my school address).

-D

-- 

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pretty blue screens?
 
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Re: Debian: abandon ship?

[Jamin W . Collins]

On Wed, 5 Jun 2002 13:47:27 -0500
"Dave Sherohman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 11:18:29AM -0700, David Wright wrote:
> > in the interest of Debian getting to
> > know the needs of its customers (a phrase calculated to annoy Manoj
> > :-), what are the percentage users of potato, woody, and sid? I assume
> > this could be estimated from average daily activity for each archive.
> 
> I doubt that this would be a useful metric, given that people
> tracking less-stable versions are likely to be updating more
> frequently.  (I'll periodically apt-get upgrade my testing/unstable
> systems just to see what's new, but I only touch apt on my stable
> boxes when a security update is announced.)

Beyond that it would fail to account for users of local mirrors.  I for
one have 18 systems in my household that update off one central internal 
mirror. In addition, my mirror pulls for stable, testing, and unstable for
both i386 and PPC.  So, now tell me, how many systems I have are running
which releases.

-- 
Jamin W. Collins


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RE: /usr/sbin/mkinitrd: ldd: command not found when installin

[Sean 'Shaleh' Perry]

On 05-Jun-2002 Charlie Grosvenor wrote:
> I have the package libc6 installed but don't have the file /usr/bin/ldd
> How can I solve this problem?
> 

install libc6 again.  Something must have deleted it.


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MH and mutt

[Marcelo Chiapparini]

Hello,

Can mutt work with folders in mh format? If so, how? I am running woody.

TIA

Marcelo

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DFT-IF/UERJ
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Debian: abandon ship?

[Noah Meyerhans]

On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 08:25:22AM -0500, Brooks R. Robinson wrote:
> My conclusion is that Woody is effectively released already.  A large number
> of people have been running on Woody for quite some time.  It's as stable as
> it's going to get.  Just do an apt-get dist upgrade and get it over with
> already.

Uh huh.  And get cracked tomorrow because security updates are *not*
being made for woody at this time.  There is a list of approximately a
dozen *known* security problems with woody that will be dealt with
*later*.  Updates are not propogating from sid to woody at all right
now, even for security reasons.  Woody is probably at its most insecure
point in the development process right now.

Do not "Just do an apt-get dist upgrade and get it over with" unless you
have no reason to care about security or are willing to do security
investigations and fixes on your own.

noah

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Re: port forwarding

[Derrick 'dman' Hudson]

On Mon, Jun 03, 2002 at 12:23:58PM -0700, Vineet Kumar wrote:
| * Paul Johnson ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) [020603 08:34]:
| > iptables just confuses me at times.
| > 
| > I'm trying to figure out how to forward all packets hitting this machine
| > on one port to a port on another machine inside my network.  I'm kinda
| > stumped.
| 
| $IPTABLES -t nat -A PREROUTING -i $EXT_IF -p tcp --dport $PORT \
|   -j DNAT --to-destination $OTHER_IP
| 
| Should do it. The reason I give $EXT_IF up there is I'm assuming that
| the machine doing the DNAT is a gateway of some sort.
| 
| If you're trying to get it working for machines within your network, it
| won't work:

Actually, it will if you do SNAT as well.  That makes the replies go
through the NAT system as well as the requests (which must already be
going through the gateway for the DNAT to happen).  An example of
doing this is in the netfilter HOWTO.

HTH,
-D

-- 

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not sure about the former.
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RE: /usr/sbin/mkinitrd: ldd: command not found when installin

[Charlie Grosvenor]

I have the package libc6 installed but don't have the file /usr/bin/ldd
How can I solve this problem?

Charlie

-Original Message-
From: Sean Perry [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sean 'Shaleh'
Perry
Sent: 05 June 2002 17:40
To: Charlie Grosvenor
Cc: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: /usr/sbin/mkinitrd: ldd: command not found when installin


On 05-Jun-2002 Charlie Grosvenor wrote:
> Hi
>   I have just done a clean install of potato and then upgraded to
> woody. I then tried to install a new kernel, during the install it
says
> the following:
> 
> Setting up kernel-image-2.4.18-586tsc (2.4.18-5) ...
> /usr/sbin/mkinitrd: ldd: command not found
> /usr/sbin/mkinitrd: ldd: command not found
> /usr/sbin/mkinitrd: ldd: command not found
> 
> Does anybody know what package the ldd command is in? As I cannot boot
> the kernel so I guess that this is the problem.
> 

$ dpkg -S ldd
libc6: /usr/bin/ldd



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Re: location of Maildir - /var/mail or ~/Maildir?

[Derrick 'dman' Hudson]

On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 12:52:21PM -0500, Mark Roach wrote:
| On Sat, 2002-06-01 at 00:06, dman wrote:
| > On Fri, May 31, 2002 at 02:06:25PM -0500, Roach, Mark R. wrote:
... 
| > | I see that with authuserdb, I can specify /var/mail for the Maildir, but
| > | I would prefer to not have to keep a separate password database just for
| > | imap. (I am currently using pam to authenticate against my ldap
| > | directory). 
| > 
| > Hmm, is authuserdb a separate db or can it plug into LDAP?  IIRC
| > courier can authenticate against LDAP.
| 
| Yes, courier can authenticate against LDAP directly, but that requires a
| courier-specific schema which I don't feel like implementing for the
| same reason as the authuserdb, my solution turned out to be ldap via pam
| via the courier-authdaemon + the symlink you suggested above.

I think it's great when various components can all be directed through
PAM for authentication because that creates a single channel through
which the configuration (LDAP, NIS(+), passwd/shadow, SMB, whatever)
can be (re)directed.  It's certainly better than having every daemon
perform the LDAP itself and require re-configuring every daemon if the
config changes.

| > | Does anyone have any suggestions on what "the one right way" to do
| > | things is? should all mail be accessed via imap, should the mail server
| > | mount the users' home directories, or some other, better option that I
| > | am too dense to think of :) ?
| > 
| > The Right Way is for the imap server to be as flexible as the MTA is.
| > Unfortunately neither courier nor uw-imap are that flexible.
| > (Actually, I think uw is, but it's compile-time config).
| 
| As I am using it, I am becoming more of the opinion that the imap server
| does just about everything I need. grep may not be an option, but mutt
| makes a fine imap client from the command line

That's good.

One issue to be aware of -- folders underneath INBOX (eg, imap path of
INBOX/foo) are stored as . (namely ~/Maildir/.foo).  This is
undersireable for me because I currently have "subfolders" like
~/Mail/lists/debian-user that mutt accesses directly.  The two naming
schemes kinda clash.  The other feature I like about using mutt with a
direct filesystem is the ability to use shell globbing to list folders
in the 'mailboxes' directive.

| > (I haven't actually solved the imap problem myself, and have postponed
| > it because I don't have any users using it)
| 
| out of curiosity, do your users have mail delivered directly to their
| boxes or do they mount their home dirs from the mail server?

My user (me) has mail delivered directly to THE box in /var/mai/
or ~/Mail/ according to my filters (currently exim but
testing out maildrop too).  I think it's probable that my family will
start using my mail server soon as Juno rolls out their new [EMAIL PROTECTED]
workalike requirements.  In that case they'll have a choice of using
IMAPS-client-of-their-choice (from windo~1 box), squirrelmail (I met
the original developers in person this weekend), or learning how to
use ssh and either mutt or a GUI client with X-over-ssh.  I think the
latter options are less likely than the former 2.  ATM my dad has mail
from cybersitter delivered to him through my server, but an alias (or
is it a .forward?  same difference) redirects it to his juno account.
Other than that, I'm the only user of my mail server.

-D

-- 

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to a dns query that was never made.
Fix information: run your DNS service on a different platform.
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Re: Debian: abandon ship?

[Dave Sherohman]

On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 11:18:29AM -0700, David Wright wrote:
> in the interest of Debian getting to
> know the needs of its customers (a phrase calculated to annoy Manoj :-),
> what are the percentage users of potato, woody, and sid? I assume this
> could be estimated from average daily activity for each archive.

I doubt that this would be a useful metric, given that people
tracking less-stable versions are likely to be updating more
frequently.  (I'll periodically apt-get upgrade my testing/unstable
systems just to see what's new, but I only touch apt on my stable
boxes when a security update is announced.)

-- 
When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists
have already won. - reverius

Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss


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unsubscribe

[Thibaud de Borggraef]

unsubscribe


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woody, alsa, terratec ewx => how?

[tobias]

 hi,

i am looking for a howto to install my terratec ewx. i am new to 
linux and debian. i cannot find a documentation i can use - the ones 
at alsaproject appear to be either old or i do not understand them / 
things do not work, are different on debian.

could any kind soul who successfully runs this soundcard offer me 
some hints about what i have to do?

i installed the sound modules during install of woody. 

so far i did:
- apt-get install alsaplayer
- apt-get install muse

this - i assume - did install the driver as well.
i did find the alsa.conf in /usr/share/alsa - but what does it need 
to fill in?

i found that i have to modprobe. i tried "modprobe ICE1712" as this 
is the chip on the soundcard and i found out that this is 
appropriate. though - where do i get that module from? how can i 
check wether i still have some im portant alsa-stuff missing as i 
assume that module should be included there?

somewhere i read about i had to do modprobe - with what file? or type
./snddevices - but this does not work and i believe that would need 
to be done if i really installed it myself via ./configure etc and 
not via apt-get.

searching google with "woody alsa install teratec ewx" also did not 
come up with useful documents.

if anyone coule help me i would be grateful - i feel rather alone ... 
;-)

i do have the demudi here on cd, but i think it would be better for 
me not to use it so far as it is still very much in the beginning. 
this version is from around autumn 2001 i think ... and there is no 
new one yet (i am watching the events around that).

ok, sorry for asking, i wish i could have done it myself without 
bothering you.

greetings,

tobias


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Re: Mgetty - Dial-in Server ---- HELP PLEASE!

[curtis]

On Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 04:29:54PM -0700, curtis wanted to write, but
didn't:


How? The contents of the relevant log file


/var/log/mgetty/mg_ttyS0.log


should give a clue. (Apologies if you have looked already)


Having turned on debugging, here is the output of my log file:


[ snip, snip ]

06/04 16:30:46 # data dev=ttyS0, pid=18440, caller='none', 
conn='19200/ARQ/V34/LAPM/V42BIS', name='', cmd='/usr/sbin/pppd', 
user='/AutoPPP/'




OK. So mgetty is quite willing to start up pppd for you. Good.


Authorisation should be done by pppd in your case (I assume that you
don't want people to use mgetty's login prompt). Does mgetty


recognise


dial-in attempts as PPP connections?



[Answering my own question, but wth]: yes


If it does, then you should be able to get more clues by adding




 debug
to /etc/ppp/options.server and study /var/log/syslog (depending on


your


syslogd config). The pppd debug should tell you what is going on.



I'm afraid that the ball is back in your court


Here's all I get relating to pppd in my syslog file.

Jun 5 11:44:37 Debian1 pppd[18695]: bad local IP address 127.0.0.1

What could that possibly mean?

Curtis
  



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Re: open ports question

[Mike Dresser]

On 5 Jun 2002, tvn1981 wrote:

>
> Hi, I have the following ports open and I am not sure what they are.
> Whether or not they are really needed. My other Linux box (rh) doesn't
> have these so I am wondering what these are in Debian
>
> 9/tcp  opendiscard
> 13/tcp opendaytime
> 37/tcp opentime
> 113/tcpopenauth
> 139/tcpopennetbios-ssn   #this seems like my samba's server
> - can someone confirm ?


Look at /etc/inetd.conf, and comment out the lines for the first 3 there
if you're worried about them.

Yes, 139 is your samba server.

and 113 is the ident server, which you may or may not need.

mike


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mozilla 1.0

[Bryan K. Walton]

Now that Mozilla 1.0 has been released, and Debian 3.0 is stuck in a
frozen state, is there anyway that we can sneak Mozilla 1.0 into the
release?  It would be a shame to release Debian 3.0 in the next couple
of weeks and not include Moz 1.0.

-Bryan


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open ports question

[tvn1981]

Hi, I have the following ports open and I am not sure what they are.
Whether or not they are really needed. My other Linux box (rh) doesn't
have these so I am wondering what these are in Debian

9/tcp  opendiscard 
13/tcp opendaytime
37/tcp opentime   
113/tcpopenauth
139/tcpopennetbios-ssn   #this seems like my samba's server
- can someone confirm ? 

Thanks 



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Re: Setting system time on startup

[Ian D. Stewart]

On 2002.06.05 13:00 Gary Hennigan wrote:

"Ian D. Stewart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Right now, when booting my linux box, the system clock is off by
four
> hours (I'm guessing it is set to GMT).  I can reset the clock using
> date, but this is starting to get a bit tedious.  Is there a way to
> automate this process and/or convince Linux to set the system clock
to
> local time?

You can change that by setting UTC= in /etc/default/rcS. This
setting should be "yes" if your HW clock is set to UTC (aka GMT) or
"no" if your HW clock is set to local time.

So first check to see what your HW clock is set to by using the
command "hwclock --show". You can then use hwclock to either set your
system time from your HW clock, or vice versa. This is done
automatically at boot by the hwclock* scripts in /etc/init.d

The main thing is setting UTC to the appropriate "yes" or "no" in
/etc/default/rcS, assuming, of course, that the problem is the fact
that your HW clock setting doesn't match the UTC setting.


Thanx Gary.  That did the trick!  Apparently my hardware clock is 
reporting local time, not GMT.  I edited /etc/default/rcS to set UTC=no 
and manually reset the system clock via 'hwclock --hctosys --localtime'


Thanx also to everyone else who responded, and for the general 
education re: hwclock.  Learn something new every day... ;)



Ian


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Re: Debian: abandon ship?

[Colin Watson]

On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 12:49:54PM -0500, Manoj Srivastava wrote:
> >>"Oleg" == Oleg  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>  Oleg> How does FreeBSD manage to stay reasonably secure and stable,
>  Oleg> yet modern (compared to Potato)?
> 
>   Perhaps number of packages has something to do with this? How
>  does testing compare to freebsd in terms of security and stability?
>  (I do not use freebsd, so I honestly do not know).

Similar order of magnitude in terms of number of packages, if you count
the FreeBSD ports system. However, I don't think FreeBSD take their
ports into account when it comes to making releases in quite the same
way we take optional and extra packages into account.

FreeBSD certainly has a very good reputation in terms of security and
stability; I'd ask the FreeBSD committer sitting behind me, but he'd
probably be biased. :-)

-- 
Colin Watson  [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Debian: abandon ship?

[David Wright]

> It's not really at all clear that this was where the mistake lay.

I never thought I would be advocating more management, but here goes...

Debian, as another poster pointed out, has grown from ~50 to ~2000
developers. And those developers, being "geeks" rather than "suits",
respond to problems by working harder on their jobs (as I believe Collin
pointed out), rather than by strategic re-alignments. Other
engineer-centered organizations (HP and Boeing are famous examples) have
run into this problem before.

Now as Manoj has pointed out many times, Debian is not a corporation and
has no way to force developers to work on a certain project. But Debian
as an organization does have some pretense to becoming a widely adopted,
enterprise-class distribution -- I think this was made clear by the debate
during the last DPL elections and by the candidate who won -- and doing
that requires a degree of responsiveness to the needs of its real (as
opposed to ideal) users.

I haven't experienced first-hand the styles of the previous and current
RMs, but at least looking from the outside, it would seem that the
current RM has been much more effective (aside from failing to take into
account the security infrastructure problems) than the previous one in
driving woody to release. This would seem to indicate that management can
make a difference.

What about increasing the "management overhead" for Debian? Instead of
just having DPL and RM, the RM could be given some minions, there could be
PMs for different areas, etc. They would make tactical and strategic
decisions regarding releases, and advertise needs as they arise.

There, the idea is out there; wail away at it.

By the way, the frustrating thing for me personally about the release
process hasn't been the long delay in making woody stable. I have never
even used stable. The frustrating thing for me has been how the
freezes and concentration of effort on getting woody stable has kept
unstable from moving forward with the bleeding edge. For me, a faster
stable cycle could actually be bad, since it could mean more freezes. This
may well be a minority position, but, in the interest of Debian getting to
know the needs of its customers (a phrase calculated to annoy Manoj :-),
what are the percentage users of potato, woody, and sid? I assume this
could be estimated from average daily activity for each archive.


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Re: syslog-ng gets no kernel messages --- SOLVED

[Martin Hermanowski]

On Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 03:51:45PM -0400, Jameson C. Burt wrote:
> I installed the package "syslog-ng", replacing the package "sysklogd".
> After this, my kernel logs (including my "iptables" logs) no longer
> went to  /var/log/{kern,debug,messages}, or any other file in /var/log.
> Syslog-ng would log the usual daemon messages.
> After spending 5 hours alterning the new  /etc/syslog-ng/syslog-ng.conf,
> I saw that my Debian Linux needed only a reboot [aka Windows].
> Actually, I didn't reboot, I ran
>/etc/rc2.d/S10syslog-ng stop
>/etc/rc2.d/S11klogd stop
>/etc/rc2.d/S10syslog-ng start
>/etc/rc2.d/S11klogd start
> 
> Normally, one would restart these in /etc/init.d,
> which I had been futily doing, but the start order
> seemed necessary from /etc/rc2.d .
> The two packages syslog-ng [or sysklogd] and klogd, 
> as the documentation says, work closely with each other. 
> The package klogd sends kernel logs 
> (including my wanted iptables firewall logs) to the syslog daemon.

I had the same problem (no kernel messages) - restarting sysklogd and
klogd in this order solves the problem.

I did it with rc2.d *and* with init.d on two different machines and
*both* worked.

Thanks for this tip :-)
Martin


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Re: How to install Debian from CD ROM

[Robert Webb]

If you are trying to do the network install did you load the driver for 
you NIC card?? And if you selected a NIC

driver did it actually load?

It sounds like Debian isn't recognizing your network...

Robert

Jim wrote:


I've downloaded the Debian CD a couple of times but can't install it on a
new system.  The system boots from the CD, and creates the proper partions
(Linux and Linux swap), but then when its time to install the kernel, it
says it can't mount the CD.  What does this mean, and is there a way around
it?


 





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ethernet connection drop while idle

[ThanhVu Nguyen]

my ethernet card drops its connection after some idle time, then come
back when the computer is active again... how can I change this behavior
in Linux (I don't want to reboot and go to the Bios and change this
because I want to keep my uptime) ? 


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unsubscribe

[justin cunningham]

Unsubscribe  


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Downloading and installing woody

[Francisco Fialho]

I'm new to Debian, first heard about it at the Install Fest that took
place at Univeristy of Campinas ( one of brazilians top 3 ).
I downloaded it, and tried to install Debian 2.2rev6, but  unsuccessfully.
I had problems with the network and video card, but know I want to try
it again with the latest woody. (it supports my hardware.) :-)
I want to download the 650 Mg cds, and not just the 5 mg files I found in
most of the Debian mirrors.

Can anyone indicate a ftp or http site that I can download the
full woody.

Regards

Francisco Fialho


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Re: location of Maildir - /var/mail or ~/Maildir?

[Mark Roach]

On Sat, 2002-06-01 at 00:06, dman wrote:
> On Fri, May 31, 2002 at 02:06:25PM -0500, Roach, Mark R. wrote:
> | I know this might be a religious matter, but is there a good reason for
> | maildirs to go in ~/Maildir?
> 
> DJB thinks that is the only way.
> 

hmm, I wonder what the reasoning is behind this. There are of course
many ways to do things and all of them are Morally Wrong in someone's
eyes :)

> | This seems to be the only way courier will
> | handle things,
> 
> Yeah, unfortunately.  You could either recompile it with a different
> setting, hack up the startup script to pick somewhere else to root the
> search, or use a symlink named ~/Maildir to point the the real
> location.

Thanks, this is what I did and it seems to be ok. ~/Maildir now points
to /var/mail/username

> 
> | but I would like to be able to mount /var/mail from my
> | mail server on my other systems so I can read mail without imap being
> | involved (grep'ing, etc).
> 
> Nice idea.
>  
> | I see that with authuserdb, I can specify /var/mail for the Maildir, but
> | I would prefer to not have to keep a separate password database just for
> | imap. (I am currently using pam to authenticate against my ldap
> | directory). 
> 
> Hmm, is authuserdb a separate db or can it plug into LDAP?  IIRC
> courier can authenticate against LDAP.

Yes, courier can authenticate against LDAP directly, but that requires a
courier-specific schema which I don't feel like implementing for the
same reason as the authuserdb, my solution turned out to be ldap via pam
via the courier-authdaemon + the symlink you suggested above.

>  
> | Does anyone have any suggestions on what "the one right way" to do
> | things is? should all mail be accessed via imap, should the mail server
> | mount the users' home directories, or some other, better option that I
> | am too dense to think of :) ?
> 
> The Right Way is for the imap server to be as flexible as the MTA is.
> Unfortunately neither courier nor uw-imap are that flexible.
> (Actually, I think uw is, but it's compile-time config).

As I am using it, I am becoming more of the opinion that the imap server
does just about everything I need. grep may not be an option, but mutt
makes a fine imap client from the command line

> 
> (I haven't actually solved the imap problem myself, and have postponed
> it because I don't have any users using it)

out of curiosity, do your users have mail delivered directly to their
boxes or do they mount their home dirs from the mail server?


Thanks,

Mark


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sshd

[O Senhor]

  Hello,
  I'm trying setup sshd to one chroot environment, but when i try log
in, the error messages from server is:
...
debug1: Allocating pty.
debug1: session_pty_req: session 0 alloc /dev/ttyp0
debug1: session_by_channel: session 0 channel 0
debug1: session_input_channel_req: session 0 channel 0 request shell
reply 0
debug1: PAM setting tty to "/dev/ttyp0"
PAM session setup failed[6]: Permission denied
debug1: Calling cleanup 0x8059350(0x80891e0)
debug1: session_pty_cleanup: session 0 release /dev/ttyp0
debug1: Calling cleanup 0x805c038(0x0)
debug1: channel_free: channel 0: server-session, nchannels 1
debug1: Calling cleanup 0x8051f48(0x0)
debug1: Calling cleanup 0x8066e3c(0x0)

  Do you know about that??? I did try to make authentication without
passwd, fo bypass the PAM module (maybe the problem), but do not work...

 Can you help me?

  Thanks.
-- 
-
thesirbr  O Senhor do Brasil.
-


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Re: Debian: abandon ship?

[Jeronimo Pellegrini]

> How does FreeBSD manage to stay reasonably secure and stable, yet modern 
> (compared to Potato)?

I think it's because they don't have a "zero-bugs" release policy like
Debian. The base system is stable. The stuff in the ports tree is not, from 
my experience. I once decided to install gdm on a FreeBSD box... There were
*lots* of broken dependencies in the ports tree, and I had to vgrep
the missing dependencies in the compile logs.  :-/

Besides that, Debian is an "automated configuration paradise" if
conpared to FreeBSD.

Anyway, if you manage to get over the problems you'll have to get it
working, you'll find that *after* it's installed and configured, 
it's a very stable and powerful system.

But -- they don't think twice before adding things to the ports tree.
Just because it's "-STABLE", that doesn't mean there can't be new
software added to it. And actually, the FreeBSD "-STABLE" is a CVS
branch! What they do periodically is to ship snapshots of it. (And
of course, the snapshots are carefully prepared).

J.

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Re: howto install from Internet

[Robert Webb]

If you don't mind a little reading try the link below.

http://www.debian.org/distrib/floppyinst

irado furioso com tudo wrote:


I donot wish to down/burn any *iso. Many persecs ago it was possible
to just make 2 floppies and, directly connected to the Internet,
install the whole Debian. While I already perused the debian.org site,
I found not the necessary directions on how to make the boot/root
flopies to install from the 'net. Any hint??

 





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Re: Debian: abandon ship?

[John Hasler]

Oleg writes:
> How does FreeBSD manage to stay reasonably secure and stable, yet modern
> (compared to Potato)?

Mostly by being much, much smaller.
-- 
John Hasler
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, Wisconsin


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Re: Debian: abandon ship?

[Manoj Srivastava]

>>"Ian" == Ian D Stewart <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:


 Ian> Speaking only for myself, it was the condescending tone adopted
 Ian> by one of the developers (don't remember the fellow's name; he
 Ian> was the one ranting about about his $250,00/hr fee) more than
 Ian> the actual content that I found offensive.  While stating that
 Ian> you don't give a rip about the users may be intelectually
 Ian> honest, one should not be surprised when such statements
 Ian> endanger userbase loyalty.

That would be me. To bring in the context that you have elided,
 this is exactly what I said:

 Manoj> Telling me how to spend my time comes with the obligation of
 Manoj> helping me pay my mortgage. My posted rates are $250 an hour.

You have a strange definition of condescending. 

Are you, then, opposed to this sentiment? Can we call on you
 and tell you how to spend your time? 

manoj

-- 
 "Interesting survey in the current Journal of Abnormal Psychology:
 New York City has a higher percentage of people you shouldn't make
 any sudden moves around than any other city in the world." David
 Letterman
Manoj Srivastava   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05  CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C


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Re: Debian: abandon ship?

[Manoj Srivastava]

>>"Oleg" == Oleg  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

 Oleg> How does FreeBSD manage to stay reasonably secure and stable,
 Oleg> yet modern (compared to Potato)?

Perhaps number of packages has something to do with this? How
 does testing compare to freebsd in terms of security and stability?
 (I do not use freebsd, so I honestly do not know).

manoj
-- 
 When we jumped into Sicily, the units became separated, and I
 couldn't find anyone.  Eventually I stumbled across two colonels, a
 major, three captains, two lieutenants, and one rifleman, and we
 secured the bridge.  Never in the history of war have so few been led
 by so many. General James Gavin
Manoj Srivastava   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
1024R/C7261095 print CB D9 F4 12 68 07 E4 05  CC 2D 27 12 1D F5 E8 6E
1024D/BF24424C print 4966 F272 D093 B493 410B  924B 21BA DABB BF24 424C


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Re: group equals username.. why?

[Robert Ian Smit]

On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 11:13:44AM -0300, irado furioso com tudo wrote:
> 
> I noted that when creating a user, it is assumed a group name with the
> very same username (user irado, group irado). Is there a way to select
> a generic (say: users) group when creating new users?

What tool are you using to create a new user?

If it's adduser than have a look at the manpage and perhaps
configure /etc/adduser.conf. This file is very well documented and
you can do what you want with changing USERGROUPS=yes to =no.

Bob


pgpQm1nMPbL1J.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: Debian: abandon ship?

[Anthony Campbell]

On 05 Jun 2002, Carl Fink wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 08:25:22AM -0500, Brooks R. Robinson wrote:
> 
> Are you really named "Brooks Robinson" or is that a nom du net?
> 
> [snip]
> > | not need me. And I need a stable release
> > | with the 2.4 kernel.
> 
> [another snip]
>  
> > My conclusion is that Woody is effectively released already.  
> 
> So, Woody changed to a 2.4 kernel?  At last report it was still using
> 2.2x.
> -- 
> Carl Fink   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Manager, Dueling Modems Computer Forum
> 
> 

Surely you can use any kernel you like. I've been using 2.4.18 since it
came out and will upgrade to 2.4.19 as soon as it's released.

AC

-- 
Anthony Campbell - running Linux GNU/Debian (Windows-free zone)
For electronic books on the Assassins and on homeopathy, skeptical 
essays, and over 170 book reviews, go to: http://www.acampbell.org.uk/

Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our
obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come
from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. [Carl Sagan]




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Re: Debian: abandon ship?

[Alan Shutko]

Carl Fink <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> So, Woody changed to a 2.4 kernel?  At last report it was still using
> 2.2x.

Woody has 2.4 kernels, just defaults to a 2.2 kernel.

-- 
Alan Shutko <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - In a variety of flavors!
Got a dictionary?  I want to know the meaning of life.


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Re: Debian: abandon ship?

[Colin Watson]

On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 12:30:39PM -0400, Carl Fink wrote:
> On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 08:25:22AM -0500, Brooks R. Robinson wrote:
> [snip]
> > | not need me. And I need a stable release
> > | with the 2.4 kernel.
> 
> [another snip]
>  
> > My conclusion is that Woody is effectively released already.  
> 
> So, Woody changed to a 2.4 kernel?  At last report it was still using
> 2.2x.

2.2 is the default on i386, but 2.4 is available as an option (both for
the installation system and afterwards).

-- 
Colin Watson  [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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test, please ignore

[Mark Roach]

My messages have not been showing up on this list. trying to figure out the 
reason.


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Re: Upgrade to Woody

[seb bastos]

in'st it the 'stable' field to be replace by 'testing'???
Bastos



From: "D.J. Bolderman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 
Subject: Re: Upgrade to Woody
Date: Wed, 5 Jun 2002 17:05:20 +0200 (CEST)


> I'm currently using Debian's stable release but, due to some delays in
> the versions of some libraries that won't let me compile some programs,
> I would like to upgrade to Woody. My question is (of course): how!?
> Is apt-get dist-upgrade safe enough? Someone told me about "aptitude",
> but (again) I lack some libraries to compile a recent version of it.
>

Well, I installed a fresh debian server last weekend, changed the 'stable'
fields in the sources.list to 'unstable' and did a apt-get dist-upgrade.
Didn't have any problems at all, so i guess it's pretty safe !
Dick



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_
Rejoignez le plus grand service de messagerie au monde avec MSN Hotmail. 
http://www.hotmail.com



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Re: Debian: abandon ship?

[John Schmidt]

On Wednesday 05 June 2002 09:37 am, Sean 'Shaleh' Perry wrote:
>
> Debian is run by a few hundred programmers who do this for fun.  Not
> profit. Because we do this for fun we choose where to spend our time.
>  For some people the mips architecture and the required hacking is
> fun.  Others are constrained by the hardware available to them (some
> of our developers had m68k only access).
>
> Debian will never make it to perfect 6 month release cycles.  To use
> Debian you must acclimate to apt-get and the "we release every day"
> credo.  Although we call it "unstable" what we really mean is
> "changing".  If you choose to not update then you have a fairly
> stable box.  I wish there was more we could do, but there isn't. 
> Especially now that most of us are not being paid for Debian work
> anymore.  Cutting back to ia32 (x86) would help, but the cost is not
> worth it.  Besides, Debian is one of the few dists out there
> supporting anything other than Sun and ia32.  Removing those arches
> would leave out many of our users and potential users.  The answers
> are not so cut and dried.
>

I certainly appreciate the multiple architecture support of Debian.  I 
have it installed on a powerpc, m68k, and x86 box.  I initially 
installed it on my m68k box, since Debian was the only distribution 
that supported it.  I made the switch to my other boxes because I liked 
the consistency of one distribution and hated the dependency mess of 
rpm.  I have advocated Debian to others in my work place and will 
continue to do so.  

John Schmidt
[EMAIL PROTECTED]   


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Re: How to change resolution in X-window?

[Brian Dessent]

Markus wrote:
> 
> I have a very simple but irritating problem: I have
> started (right after installation of Debian) startx
> and now it automatically starts every time the system
> is started. The resolution is though way too low
> (340*240 or something) and this causes huge
> difficulties in trying to get even to the basic menus.
> Is there any easy way to change the resolution? I
> can't even get to the 'Settings' menu because the menu
> bounces like an idiot if the popping menus get too
> big.

Well, this can be a simple or more involved issue.  Have you configured
XF86Config for your monitor?  If not then you need to do that first, and
the main thing you need to know is the vertical and horizontal refresh
rates that the monitor can handle.  You can get more info from the
XF86Config man page.

If you told the installer your monitor and video card info, there's a
chance that XF86Config is already set up, you just need to change the
default resolution.  While X is running you can use ctrl alt + and ctrl
alt - (use the keypad + and -) to switch resolutions.  To set the
resolution that X starts in, look at the "Modes" line under 'Section
"Screen"' in XF86Config.  There will be an entry for each color depth. 
The order which modes are listed reflects the order that is cycled when
you do ctrl alt +/-.  The mode listed first is the one which X starts
with.

To fine tune the refresh rate, screen size/position, etc, use xvidtune. 
After playing around with the settings, the program will print a
ModeLine for the settings you've chosen, which you then must copy/paste
into the correct place in XF86Config.  There should be a man page
installed for xvidtune.

I'm sure we can help you further with specifics once you know exactly
where you're at.

Brian


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Re: Debian: abandon ship?

[Colin Watson]

On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 08:02:02AM -0400, Ian D. Stewart wrote:
> On 2002.06.05 09:32 Colin Watson wrote:
> >I hope you don't find this comment abusive. It's worth remembering
> >that many developers are feeling under quite a lot of pressure right
> >now, because a large percentage of the more vocal users sometimes
> >seem to be engaging in a "trash-the-developers campaign" with regard
> >to the woody release, and many of us have already put in just about
> >as much work as we possibly can to make it go smoothly; that's bound
> >to make some feathers a little ruffled.
> 
> Speaking only for myself, it was the condescending tone adopted by one 
> of the developers (don't remember the fellow's name; he was the one 
> ranting about about his $250,00/hr fee) more than the actual content 
> that I found offensive.  While stating that you don't give a rip about 
> the users may be intelectually honest, one should not be surprised when 
> such statements endanger userbase loyalty.

I think (again speaking only for myself) that what Manoj was trying to
say is that he doesn't feel obligated to users, especially when they're
demanding things of him. That's not quite the same as saying that he
doesn't give a rip about them, from my reading, although the distinction
might be subtle in the heat of an argument. In all my dealings as a bug
submitter with Manoj, he has been consistently polite, knowledgeable,
and helpful.

I might have chosen different wording, but it *is* true that if I felt
obligated to every user as a developer then I would barely have time to
sleep and eat. That certainly doesn't mean that I don't listen to users,
especially when their feedback helps software I maintain.

-- 
Colin Watson  [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Setting system time on startup

[Pietro Cagnoni]

Ian D. Stewart wrote:

Howdy Folks,

Right now, when booting my linux box, the system clock is off by four 
hours (I'm guessing it is set to GMT).  I can reset the clock using 
date, but this is starting to get a bit tedious.  Is there a way to 
automate this process and/or convince Linux to set the system clock to 
local time?


debian readjusts the clock on shutdown, maybe there's something broken
somewhere; check the console output on shutdown.

if you use just linux on the box, it's better to keep the clock on
GMT: adjust UTC=* in /etc/default/rcS .

pietro.





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Re: in case you missed this from ponik

[Jamin W . Collins]

On Wed, 5 Jun 2002 10:51:33 -0500
"Derrick 'dman' Hudson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Actually, it's really easy to blackhole their messages on your end.
> From your POV it's basically the same thing (apart from bandwidth
> usage).

Yes, blackholing the messages is easy.  As for bandwidth being the only
difference, not quite.  The messages still make it to the archives (thus
flooding them).  The increased message traffic to the list can bog the
list server resulting in increasing delivery delays.  As with any problem
the closer to the source you can deal with the problem the better.

-- 
Jamin W. Collins


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Re: this post is not off-topic

[Ivo Wever]

Colin Watson wrote:

On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 01:43:46PM +0200, Ivo Wever wrote:
> On a related matter: if a number of developers were at odds with part
> of the current policy, how would they be able to try and change the
> policy regarding that issue (supposing that if the majority of
> developers, including those with expertise regarding the subject
> concur, something would be changed)?

Technical policy has a well-defined and fairly simple amendment process.
I suspect you're talking about more general topics, though; in that
case, there is a rarely-used General Resolution procedure by which the
mass of developers can vote their minds.

By and large, of course, the people who do the work get to make the
decisions; GRs are a rather nuclear option compared to jumping in and
helping.

Sometimes all people want is to know the nuclear option exists, understand
its functioning and its consequences. When they realise that, they also
realise that their ideas are discarded because of _arguments_, not because
of the impossibility of getting an idea through.

Perhaps some people haven't read http://www.debian.org/devel/constitution
(as I can't believe I overlooked it until now)

sincerely

Ivo Wever
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Setting system time on startup

[Mark Roach]

On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 05:27:54AM -0400, Ian D. Stewart wrote:
> Howdy Folks,
> 
> Right now, when booting my linux box, the system clock is off by four 
> hours (I'm guessing it is set to GMT).  I can reset the clock using 
> date, but this is starting to get a bit tedious.  Is there a way to 
> automate this process and/or convince Linux to set the system clock to 
> local time?
> 
> 
I am having trouble successfully posting to this list, so I apologize
for dupicates. Try hwclock --systohc

-Mark


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Re: Debian: abandon ship?

[Michel Loos]

Em Qua, 2002-06-05 às 08:41, Nick Jacobs escreveu:
> A few days ago, David Wright posted a message to this
> list, questioning the wisdom of Debian's decision
> to target 11 architectures. He pointed out (with
> supporting references) that this decision has
> contributed to a long delay in releasing Woody;
> of course, other people have said this before.
> 
> The main result was that a small number of
> Debian insiders posted abusive comments
> in response to David's perfectly reasonable
> message. (The thread, in case you missed it,
> has the subject "This post is not off-topic".)
> 
> With hindsight, it's clear that trying to
> support too many architectures was a mistake.
> Of course, everybody makes mistakes. It is truly
> said that he who never made a mistake, never
> made anything.
> 
> But what separates the doers from the wannabes
> is the ability to admit a mistake, change
> direction, and move on.
> 
> If the people in effective control of Debian's
> direction no longer have this ability, then
> perhaps Debian is no longer useful to most
> of us.
> 
> To save the Debian Attack Team the effort
> of a search, I'll admit immediately that
> (like most Debian users) I've contributed
> nothing to Debian except good intentions
> and trivial amounts of money. Debian does
> not need me. And I need a stable release
> with the 2.4 kernel.
> 

You have 2 stable releases which are up-to-date:
woody 

and sid
They are perfectly stable, but the distribution is changing 
just like the RedHat distribution is changing every few weeks,
the only difference is that they call it stable even when if it is
broken, while debian is called unstable even when every thing works
fine.

Michel.




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howto install from Internet

[irado furioso com tudo]

I donot wish to down/burn any *iso. Many persecs ago it was possible
to just make 2 floppies and, directly connected to the Internet,
install the whole Debian. While I already perused the debian.org site,
I found not the necessary directions on how to make the boot/root
flopies to install from the 'net. Any hint??

-- 

saudações,

irado furioso com tudo
Linux User 179402
mais crimes são cometidos em nome das religiões do que em nome do
ateísmo.


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Re: group equals username.. why?

[Gary Hennigan]

"irado furioso com tudo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I noted that when creating a user, it is assumed a group name with the
> very same username (user irado, group irado). Is there a way to select
> a generic (say: users) group when creating new users?

Please read the man page for adduser and the configuration file
/etc/adduser.conf. All of your questions are answered therein.

Gary


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Re: Setting system time on startup

[Gary Hennigan]

"Ian D. Stewart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Right now, when booting my linux box, the system clock is off by four
> hours (I'm guessing it is set to GMT).  I can reset the clock using
> date, but this is starting to get a bit tedious.  Is there a way to
> automate this process and/or convince Linux to set the system clock to
> local time?

You can change that by setting UTC= in /etc/default/rcS. This
setting should be "yes" if your HW clock is set to UTC (aka GMT) or
"no" if your HW clock is set to local time.

So first check to see what your HW clock is set to by using the
command "hwclock --show". You can then use hwclock to either set your
system time from your HW clock, or vice versa. This is done
automatically at boot by the hwclock* scripts in /etc/init.d

The main thing is setting UTC to the appropriate "yes" or "no" in
/etc/default/rcS, assuming, of course, that the problem is the fact
that your HW clock setting doesn't match the UTC setting.

Gary


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Re: Setting system time on startup

[Patrick Wiseman]

On Wed, 5 Jun 2002, Ian D. Stewart wrote:

> Right now, when booting my linux box, the system clock is off by four
> hours (I'm guessing it is set to GMT).  I can reset the clock using
> date, but this is starting to get a bit tedious.  Is there a way to
> automate this process and/or convince Linux to set the system clock to
> local time?

Check out /etc/init.d/hwclockfirst.sh, /etc/init.d/hwclock.sh, and
/etc/default/rcS, which seem to be the files responsible for starting the
system clock.  Also try 'man hwclock', which, way down, has useful
information about the relationship between the hardware clock and the
system clock.

hth

pw

-- 
Patrick Wiseman
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Linux user #17943


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Re: group equals username.. why?

[Mark Lanett]

It's called "user private groups" I think, and you want it. You can add
generic groups as well of course, but the user should have their own private
group.

There is documentation about this somewhere; I read some on Red Hat's site
once.

~mark

- Original Message -
From: "irado furioso com tudo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "debian-user" 
Sent: Wednesday, June 05, 2002 7:13 AM
Subject: group equals username.. why?


>
> I noted that when creating a user, it is assumed a group name with the
> very same username (user irado, group irado). Is there a way to select
> a generic (say: users) group when creating new users?
>
>
> --
>
> saudações,
>
> irado furioso com tudo
> Linux User 179402
> mais crimes são cometidos em nome das religiões do que em nome do
> ateísmo.
>
>
> --
> To UNSUBSCRIBE, email to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> with a subject of "unsubscribe". Trouble? Contact
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
>


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Re: Debian: abandon ship?

[Dave Sherohman]

On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 04:41:20AM -0700, Nick Jacobs wrote:
> The main result was that a small number of
> Debian insiders posted abusive comments
> in response to David's perfectly reasonable
> message.

Maybe I've just been around the 'net too long and been too hardened
by it, but I haven't seen anything (from either side) that I would
call "abusive".

> But what separates the doers from the wannabes
> is the ability to admit a mistake, change
> direction, and move on.

As was mentioned here yesterday, dropping all the new architectures
would not significantly affect the release timing, as the security
team would still be unable to support both potato and a 6-arch woody
without the infrastucture improvements which are underway and, when
complete, will allow them to support an 11-arch woody.

If the real problem is simply one of having too many archs, then it
is that potato has too many, not that woody does.

-- 
When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists
have already won. - reverius

Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss


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Re: group equals username.. why?

[DvB]

irado furioso com tudo <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

> I noted that when creating a user, it is assumed a group name with the
> very same username (user irado, group irado). Is there a way to select
> a generic (say: users) group when creating new users?
> 

man adduser

If the user's already added, editing /etc/group, /etc/passwd or a
combination thereof as root should do the trick.

run also man -k group | grep add


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Re: group equals username.. why?

[Dave Sherohman]

On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 11:13:44AM -0300, irado furioso com tudo wrote:
> I noted that when creating a user, it is assumed a group name with the
> very same username (user irado, group irado). Is there a way to select
> a generic (say: users) group when creating new users?

dpkg-reconfigure adduser

and turn off the per-user groups.  Or just manually edit
/etc/adduser.conf and set USERGROUPS to no and USERS_GID to whatever
you want.

-- 
When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists
have already won. - reverius

Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss


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RE: DNS resolution problem

[Mark Roach]

On Wed, 2002-06-05 at 04:01, George Karaolides wrote:
> 
> Sorry to be replying to my own post, but there was a typo in my email.
> I meant to say:
> 
> --- Begin erratum ---
> 
> dig @192.168.4.5 www.google.com
> 
> works just fine!  But putting 192.168.4.5 in /etc/resolv.conf and doing
> 
> dig www.google.com
> 
> doesn't work!

Did you just put 192.168.4.5, or did you put "nameserver 192.168.4.5"?
The latter should work, just the ip is meaningless.

check out the man page for resolv.conf


-Mark


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Re: Debian GIS

[Ian D. Stewart]

On 2002.06.05 12:17 Henrique de Moraes Holschuh wrote:

On Wed, 05 Jun 2002, Ian D. Stewart wrote:
> Can anybody recomend a good GIS (Geographical Information System)
> package for debian?  I did a quick search with 'apt-cache search
GIS',
> but got a long list of unrelated results.  I've found GRASS on
> freshmeat, but there doesn't appear to be .deb available.

IMA (www.ima.sp.gov.br) is currently sponsoring the packaging of some
GIS
related software, but I hear MapServer and GRASS are f* painful to
package, and a major mess of dependencies, too.

Send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] (debian org) and ask him about the
progress, last
time I talked to him about it, he had preliminar packages that require
a
full php surgery on the system, and was trying to cleanup upstream
mapserver
enough to allow for less intrusive packaging...  That is for
MapServer. I
don't know about how much progress the GRASS packaging has seen so
far.


Thanx Henrique.  I dropped by the IMA site, but I'm afraid my 
portuguese is not up to snuff ;)


I'll give gleydson a ring, see what he's got.


Ian


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Re: Setting system time on startup

[Mark Roach]

On Wed, 2002-06-05 at 04:27, Ian D. Stewart wrote: 
> Howdy Folks,
> 
> Right now, when booting my linux box, the system clock is off by four 
> hours (I'm guessing it is set to GMT).  I can reset the clock using 
> date, but this is starting to get a bit tedious.  Is there a way to 
> automate this process and/or convince Linux to set the system clock to 
> local time?

try hwclock --systohc 


-Mark


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Re: Setting system time on startup

[Dave Sherohman]

On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 05:27:54AM -0400, Ian D. Stewart wrote:
> Right now, when booting my linux box, the system clock is off by four 
> hours (I'm guessing it is set to GMT).  I can reset the clock using 
> date, but this is starting to get a bit tedious.  Is there a way to 
> automate this process and/or convince Linux to set the system clock to 
> local time?

Install the ntpdate package to set your date on boot and ntp to keep
it accurate thereafter.  As for the time zone, run tzconfig to set
that.

-- 
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have already won. - reverius

Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss


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Re: Server won't reboot automatically after "init 6".

[Stephen Gran]

This one time, at band camp, Simon Tneoh Chee-Boon said:
> Hello all,
> Thanks in advance for any help provided.
> I installed a Debian Linux 2.4.18-bf2.4 #1 on a HP NetServer LC 3
> machine.
> Whenever I run "init 6" to restart the server, I can see the server
> shutting down
> and try to reboot. The message "Restarting system." is displayed. But
> the problem
> is the machine never rebooted, it just hang there, no activities at all.
> I have to press
> the power button to switch off and on again.
>  The last task system trying to do:
> --
> 
> Shutting down I20 System
>   This could take a few minutes if there are many devices attached
>   I20 System down.
> Restarting system.
> --
> 
>Do I need to configure anything in the BIOS or any device? I called
> HP's customer
> service, they said they can't help on this, ask me to check on
> discussion group.
> Below I append the messages in the /var/log/syslog file.
> Thanks.
> 
> Regards,
> Simon.
Try compiling apm as a module - it's what many people had to do as to
make reboots and shutdowns work properly with 2.4 series kernels.  Don't
quite know why, though.
> Jun  5 04:04:26 perdana kernel: Initializing RT netlink socket
This is where apm should be started - since it's not, it's either not
compiled or loaded.
> Jun  5 04:04:26 perdana kernel: Starting kswapd

HTH,
Steve

p.s. - dumping debian-devel, as it's not really the place for this.
-- 
He who hesitates is sometimes saved.


pgpdgghTlmpQf.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: /usr/sbin/mkinitrd: ldd: command not found when installin

[Sean 'Shaleh' Perry]

On 05-Jun-2002 Charlie Grosvenor wrote:
> Hi
>   I have just done a clean install of potato and then upgraded to
> woody. I then tried to install a new kernel, during the install it says
> the following:
> 
> Setting up kernel-image-2.4.18-586tsc (2.4.18-5) ...
> /usr/sbin/mkinitrd: ldd: command not found
> /usr/sbin/mkinitrd: ldd: command not found
> /usr/sbin/mkinitrd: ldd: command not found
> 
> Does anybody know what package the ldd command is in? As I cannot boot
> the kernel so I guess that this is the problem.
> 

$ dpkg -S ldd
libc6: /usr/bin/ldd




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Re: Apache with Tomcat4 package

[Hubert Chan]

> "Emil" == Emil Hägerlund <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Emil> Thanks, Connector?  -- BUT, how is it meant for users to
Emil> connect apache and tomcat4 under testing? Shall I get a connector
Emil> from Jakartas archive?

You can try libapache-mod-jk or libapache-mod-webapp.

Emil> JDK --- I installed jdk 1.4 from sun. Added the java path to
Emil> /etc/default. So now I have a satisfactory java base.  Is there no
Emil> jdk deb package for tomcat4?

You can get a jdk1.3 deb from Blackdown.  Go to
http://www.blackdown.org/java-linux/mirrors.html, select an appropriate
mirror, navigate through to
.../debian/dists/[woody or potato]/non-free/binary-i386

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Debian testing/3.0 Installation Procedure on Cobalt/Sun RaQ 3+

[Robert Gash]

Our company purchased a Cobalt RaQ 3 some years ago.  As time progressed
it became increasingly ill-suited for our purposes and we finally decided
to decommission it.  Since the hardware is worth more to us as a server
than it would be on eBay, we decided to put another, modern, distribution
on the machine.

We attempted FreeBSD first but were unsuccessful, although I believe that
my failure was related to the fact I had not flashed the BIOS properly
beforehand.  If time permits I will attempt to install FreeBSD on another
disk and post my results here.  Debian is my Linux distribution of choice,
so I then attempted to install it on our RaQ.  Installation went
relatively smoothly and I was able to get a functioning system with a
brand-new 2.4.18 stock kernel running on our RaQ.

Please note that one of the other users on this list attempted to install
RedHat 7.x, but all of its packages are built with  P2+ class systems in
mind, which the RaQ is not (it is a 586/Pentium class system utilizing an
AMD 6x86 processor), so attempts to install RedHat on a RaQ will almost
undoubtedly end up being a waste of time.  I do not like RedHat, so I
didn't even attempt it, but you may try it if you are so inclined.

Below you will find the steps required to get your RaQ 3 running Debian
Linux 3.0.  This installation procedure should work pretty much the same
way on all x86-based RaQ products.  THIS INSTALLATION DOES NOT WORK ON
MIPS-BASED RAQ PRODUCTS (Qube/RaQ 1 and 2).

USE THIS GUIDE AT YOUR OWN RISK!  THE INSTRUCTIONS INCLUDED IN THIS
DOCUMENT WERE COMPILED TO ASSIST OTHER USERS WITH THEIR INSTALLATION
NEEDS, AND NO WARRANTY OF ANY KIND IS PROVIDED OR IMPLIED.  BY USING THE
CONTENTS OF THIS MESSAGE YOU EXPRESSLY RELEASE THE AUTHOR AND ALL
AFFILIATED PARTIES FROM ANY LIABILITY OF ANY KIND.  IF YOU DO NOT AGREE TO
THESE TERMS, DO NOT PROCEED.  ADDITIONALLY, NO SUPPORT WILL BE PROVIDED
SHOULD YOU HAVE ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS NOT ANSWERED IN THIS DOCUMENT.  IT IS
NOT MY JOB TO SUPPORT RAQ PRODUCTS OR RAQ INSTALLATION QUESTIONS.  IF YOU
HAVE QUESTIONS, POST THEM TO THE APPROPRIATE MAILING LIST/FORUM.

Installing Debian 3.0 on Cobalt RaQ 3+ (x86-based) Systems

1) Flash your BIOS up to a 2.4-friendly version.
2) Install Debian using another computer.
3) Build a custom kernel.
4) Install a custom kernel.
5) Replace drive into RaQ and boot.

1) You need a new BIOS for your RaQ to load modern (2.4.x) kernels, so I
recommend that you take the time and flash up now.  This will undoubtedly
void your warranty, but if you're formatting and putting a new OS on your
RaQ you obviously don't care.  Obtain the newest BIOS for your RaQ from
the URL below.  Make sure you read the README files and you select the
appropriate BIOS for your RaQ; the versions differ depending on what
generation of RaQ you own.  At the time of this writing the version
available for our RaQ 3 (generation III) was 2.3.40.  Read the READMEs
included in the directory for directions on how to flash your RaQ.

  ftp://ftp.cobaltnet.com/pub/users/thockin/2.4/

I was unable to get the "flashtool" userland flash utility to successfully
read/backup or flash our BIOS.  After some cruising of
ftp.cobaltnet.com/pub/users I came across another BIOS upgrade package
that contained a kernel module and utility to allow for flashing of the
BIOS.  The package also included an older prerelase BIOS, which I did not
use.  The module and utility worked fine and successfully flashed my BIOS
up to 2.3.40.  For reference purposes, I had booted manually using the ROM
kernel, which can be done by bringing up a diagnostic console (hold the
reset button on the front panel while powering on) on COM1, entering the
ROM mode, and then using the "bfr" command to use the ROM kernel.

  ftp://ftp.cobaltnet.com/pub/users/erik/rom-upgrade-2.3.38-pre.tar.gz

2) After flashing our BIOS, I yanked the drive from the RaQ and installed
Debian on the drive using another spare P3 system, so I would have a
floppy and keyboard and pseudo-normal hardware capable of handling the
installation.  I am not sure if installing straight from the RaQ is
possible at this time, but I can tell you that setting up a netboot
environment and then attempting to do the install over a serial line is
probably not worth the effort.

When installing Debian, remember your BIOS requires a very specific
partition for booting purposes.  When you fdisk, you create the first
primary partition (AKA hda1) large enough for / and /boot.  You can use
other filesystems for everything else, but / and /boot should be on this
first primary partition.  Debian's "testing" (at the time of this writing
testing == 3.0) floppies by default format new ext2 filesystems with a
2.2-friendly ext2fs that the BIOS does not understand.  I manually
formatted the / partition after fdisk'ing the drive to prevent possible
incompatibilities.  I broke to the emergency console on tty3 and used the
"mke2fs -r 0 -O none /dev/hda1" to create the RaQ BIOS-friendly format o

Re: Debian: abandon ship?

[Manoj Srivastava]

>>"Nick" == Nick Jacobs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

 Nick> A few days ago, David Wright posted a message to this list,
 Nick> questioning the wisdom of Debian's decision to target 11
 Nick> architectures. He pointed out (with supporting references) that
 Nick> this decision has contributed to a long delay in releasing
 Nick> Woody; of course, other people have said this before.

Well, this is only partially true. All architectuures for
 Woody are ready. They are not delaying the release. What is not ready
 is the ability to support security for woody and potato for even the
 architectures that we have now -- not with the increased number of
 packlages that the security team has to support.

So, woody can't be released even now, wqith the arches that
 potato supports.

 Nick> The main result was that a small number of Debian insiders
 Nick> posted abusive comments in response to David's perfectly
 Nick> reasonable message. (The thread, in case you missed it, has the
 Nick> subject "This post is not off-topic".)

This is a foul canar. His reasonable questions received a
 reasonable resaponse: Debian has no release schedules, and that the
 goals of the project are not to maximize popularity.

When you start making demands of the developers, the standard
 response was again given; that the developers have no obligation to
 meet demands on how they must spend their time volunteering. Abuse? I
 would characterize demands as abuseive, myself.

 Nick> With hindsight, it's clear that trying to support too many
 Nick> architectures was a mistake.  Of course, everybody makes
 Nick> mistakes. It is truly said that he who never made a mistake,
 Nick> never made anything.

I beg to differ. The arches are ready. The developers who work
 on these architectures as a labour of love can't just be
 reassigned. Porting packages uncovers flaws that makes packages less
 buggy on all architectures.

Of course, when it comes down to the brass tacks, if such a
 difference of opinion exists, the people who do the work get to
 decide which side is right.

 Nick> But what separates the doers from the wannabes is the ability
 Nick> to admit a mistake, change direction, and move on.

I see. A bunch of people that have put together a distribution
 of Linux, one that is fairly succesful, are the wannabees, and
 bystanders critisizing the effor t are the doers. I would think that
 actually getting out there and putting together one of the top 5
 distributions would classify debian as one of the doers, but hey,
 what do I know.

 Nick> If the people in effective control of Debian's direction no
 Nick> longer have this ability, then perhaps Debian is no longer
 Nick> useful to most of us.

We are a pretty egalitarian bunch. If there was a wide spread
 dissonance with this decision, it would not have happened. And whther
 Debian is useful or not is a decision every one has to make on their
 own.

It is still useful for me.

manoj   

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fatal error: writefb: virtual res doesn't equal physical res

[andrej hocevar]

This is the error dvifb gives me. Here's what fbset says:

mode "1024x768-76"
# D: 78.653 MHz, H: 59.949 kHz, V: 75.694 Hz
geometry 1024 768 1024 4096 8
timings 12714 128 32 16 4 128 4
rgba 6/0,6/0,6/0,0/0
endmode

What does it mean? If I try to change it, the console gets messed
up, with half of it appearing at the bottom etc. I've tried it with
"fbset -g 1024 768 1024 768 8". 

My boot parameters are "vga=0x305 video=vesa:ywrap,mtrr". If I leave
out "ywrap", it's fine, but too slow. 

Any ideas? Is the vesafb any different with kernels other than
2.4.16? I've got an ati all-in-wonder which seemed to work only with
vesa.

Thanks,
andrej

-- 
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Re: Debian: abandon ship?

[Carl Fink]

On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 08:25:22AM -0500, Brooks R. Robinson wrote:

Are you really named "Brooks Robinson" or is that a nom du net?

[snip]
> | not need me. And I need a stable release
> | with the 2.4 kernel.

[another snip]
 
> My conclusion is that Woody is effectively released already.  

So, Woody changed to a 2.4 kernel?  At last report it was still using
2.2x.
-- 
Carl Fink   [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Manager, Dueling Modems Computer Forum



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Re: Upgrade to Woody

[David Z Maze]

Paladin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> I'm currently using Debian's stable release but, due to some delays in the
> versions of some libraries that won't let me compile some programs, I
> would like to upgrade to Woody. My question is (of course): how!?
> Is apt-get dist-upgrade safe enough?

It should be, yes.  Report bugs if it's not.

> Someone told me about "aptitude", but
> (again) I lack some libraries to compile a recent version of it.

Upgrading with aptitude would probably be useful.  You might try:

  (add woody to /etc/apt/sources.list)
  apt-get update
  apt-get install aptitude  # Gets most recent version
  aptitude

Pressing 'g' will take you to a screen listing *everything* that's
being upgraded/removed; pressing 'g' again will actually do it.  You
can look at what's being changed and alter the automatic selections if
you feel like; this is probably more informative and a little safer
(in the general "know what's on your system" sense) than a blind
'apt-get dist-upgrade'.

-- 
David Maze [EMAIL PROTECTED]  http://people.debian.org/~dmaze/
"Theoretical politics is interesting.  Politicking should be illegal."
-- Abra Mitchell


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Desktop suitability (was Re: this post is not off-topic)

[Dave Sherohman]

On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 01:15:45AM -0300, synthespian wrote:
>   You can't use Potato for a desktop (to outdated) and you remain in this
> security limbo...



Why does everyone keep repeating this "potato is too old to be a
desktop" line?  I heartily disagree and I have somewhere in the
neighborhood of 35 office personnel (accountants, purchasing, etc. -
not technogeeks) to back me up.  They run potato or at-least-as-old
versions of Red Hat, Mandrake, or Suse[1] with StarOffice sitting on
top of them and not a one has complained about missing functionality
in the year I've been supporting them.

And for those who think that KDE or GNOME is the be-all of desktop
usability, I've got news for you:  I've started moving them over to
WindowMaker and they like it better.  When I first show them a wmaker
session, there's a little disorentation, but I make it clear that
they still have KDE/GNOME[1] available if they'd rather use that for
now.  Within a week, most are primarily using WindowMaker.



[1]  The lack of standardization isn't my doing.  Previous admins
seem to have just run whatever shipped with each machine on it.  I've
made good progress towards cleaning things up, but don't expect to be
done with that project any time soon.

-- 
When we reduce our own liberties to stop terrorism, the terrorists
have already won. - reverius

Innocence is no protection when governments go bad. - Tom Swiss


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Re: this post is not off-topic

[Manoj Srivastava]

>>"Ivo" == Ivo Wever <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

 Ivo> Manoj wrote:
 >> What the non free world does, or does not do, does not
 >> affect release decisions for Debian. We release when we are ready. We
 >> are not yet ready. Period.

 Ivo> I think what some people fear is that this implementation of the
 Ivo> Debian philosophy might prove self-destructive. A certain amount
 Ivo> of developing is required to keep Debian competative. If Debian

Remember, people like me are doing this for ourselves -- we
 need this nice Linux box with the best distribution possible on our
 machines. That is what got me in this in the first place. 

 Ivo> develops too slowly, developers may leave, slowing down the
 Ivo> development, entering a vicious circle. I seem to read lots of
 Ivo> reports about people unhappy with current affairs and leaving,
 Ivo> though that might be selective observation. What happens when
 Ivo> the amount of developers falls below the critical level?

When I joined Debian, we had 47 developers (we had far fewer
 packages, though). We now have around a thousand, and climbing. In
 the last 6 months or so, one person left noisily, about a dozen or so
 other people left for various reasons, and several dozen joined. We
 see a growing number of developers and packages, not a decline.

The frustrations that affect end users may not be valid for
 developers, or at least not to the same degree. While I am frustrated
 by the long interval between releases, I always run unstable, and I
 also have a recourse -- I can try and solve the problem with the
 delays, and work to see that the intervals are shortened. I am not
 likely to leave just because the problem is too hard a nut for me to
 crack. 

manoj
-- 
 Marriage is the only adventure open to the cowardly. Voltaire
Manoj Srivastava   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
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Re: this post is not off-topic

[Manoj Srivastava]

>>"Ivo" == Ivo Wever <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

 Ivo> On a related matter: if a number of developers were at odds with
 Ivo> part of the current policy, how would they be able to try and
 Ivo> change the policy regarding that issue (supposing that if the
 Ivo> majority of developers, including those with expertise regarding
 Ivo> the subject concur, something would be changed)?

Debian policy is not writ in stone. We are a group of people
 with common cause -- and, if "a number of developers" are at odds
 with the way things are done, then 
   a) They can talk and try to convince other people
   b) Come up with code/test cases and demonstrate the better method
   c) Realize that as volunteers no one can dictate how they spend
  their time
  
Debian is essentially a bazaar of cathedrals -- each developer
 has almost absolute control over the work that he does (well, with
 some restrictions -- following licenses, heeding the policy
 guidelines, etc).

manoj
-- 
 You cannot propel yourself forward by patting yourself on the back.
Manoj Srivastava   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
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Re: Setting system time on startup

[Jamin W . Collins]

On Wed, 5 Jun 2002 05:27:54 -0400
"Ian D. Stewart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
 
> Right now, when booting my linux box, the system clock is off by four 
> hours (I'm guessing it is set to GMT).  I can reset the clock using 
> date, but this is starting to get a bit tedious.  Is there a way to 
> automate this process and/or convince Linux to set the system clock to 
> local time?

man hwclock

-- 
Jamin W. Collins


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advansys scsi controller

[Henning, Brian]

Hello-
I am having problems with my advansys scsi controller on boot. What happens
is it goes through and looks for devices on each of the 7 scsi chains 2
times each. I don't know if it is the wrong driver that is loading or what.
I thought i could pass in a kernel command on boot.   
boot: advansys io=4C00  
That didn't do anything either. Is there a way to have debian not look for
this device. I really don't care if it works or not with debian. Or, if is
possible is there a way to get it working properly.
thanks for any advice,
brian


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Re: Debian GIS

[Henrique de Moraes Holschuh]

On Wed, 05 Jun 2002, Ian D. Stewart wrote:
> Can anybody recomend a good GIS (Geographical Information System) 
> package for debian?  I did a quick search with 'apt-cache search GIS', 
> but got a long list of unrelated results.  I've found GRASS on 
> freshmeat, but there doesn't appear to be .deb available.

IMA (www.ima.sp.gov.br) is currently sponsoring the packaging of some GIS
related software, but I hear MapServer and GRASS are f* painful to
package, and a major mess of dependencies, too.

Send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] (debian org) and ask him about the progress, 
last
time I talked to him about it, he had preliminar packages that require a
full php surgery on the system, and was trying to cleanup upstream mapserver
enough to allow for less intrusive packaging...  That is for MapServer. I
don't know about how much progress the GRASS packaging has seen so far.

-- 
  "One disk to rule them all, One disk to find them. One disk to bring
  them all and in the darkness grind them. In the Land of Redmond
  where the shadows lie." -- The Silicon Valley Tarot
  Henrique Holschuh


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Re: Debian: abandon ship?

[Ian D. Stewart]

On 2002.06.05 09:32 Colin Watson wrote:



I hope you don't find this comment abusive. It's worth remembering
that
many developers are feeling under quite a lot of pressure right now,
because a large percentage of the more vocal users sometimes seem to
be
engaging in a "trash-the-developers campaign" with regard to the woody
release, and many of us have already put in just about as much work as
we possibly can to make it go smoothly; that's bound to make some
feathers a little ruffled.


Speaking only for myself, it was the condescending tone adopted by one 
of the developers (don't remember the fellow's name; he was the one 
ranting about about his $250,00/hr fee) more than the actual content 
that I found offensive.  While stating that you don't give a rip about 
the users may be intelectually honest, one should not be surprised when 
such statements endanger userbase loyalty.



Ian


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Re: Beginning to try to secure my box.

[marshal]

> "Paladin" == Paladin  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:

Paladin> On 05 Jun 2002 13:58:48 +0200
Paladin> Mark Janssen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> Also check your /etc/inetd.conf

Paladin> time, daytime and discard, what are these for??

You probably don't need them, and to what I heard, they are quite
insecure.  I have them turned off, with no ill effects.  But I don't
run an internal network.

Actually, I don't even use inetd.  I have exim running as a daemon,
and the only thing I use the superserver for is leafnode, and I use
rlinetd for that.

Good Luck.

Marshal


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Re: jigdo-easy /woody

[andrej hocevar]

On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 01:12:34PM +0200, jfcarvajal wrote:
> 
> I have a problem when trying to download a woody iso image with jigdo-easy.
> It always says "oops! some file missed. First I followed the readme
> intructions but i had always the same message.

I don't know about jigdo-easy (I assume though, it's the Windows
version since your header says you posted your message from Outlook)
but I was successful with jigdo-lite under Linux. 

That was a permanent connection yet not very fast, plus I had to
pause the download for, say, two weeks and then continue. If I
remember correctly, I got a similar error: some files failed to
download because the image got updated and they were simply
excluded. The solution was to get the new index file and pretend to
be downloading everything from scratch -- then at the beginning
you're prompted to give the path of a possible older version of the
same image to reuse common files. That's what I did, some files were
missing and got downloaded at once -- I think it was ten, maybe
twenty new packages. Really just a few megabytes. Everything else
was there already.

Good luck,
andrej



-- 
echo ${girl_name} > /etc/dumpdates


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Re: What do I need for proxy email and firewall debian server?

[Tim Dijkstra]

On Wed, 05 Jun 2002 08:14:28 +0800
"Motiv8d" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I'm not really an expert on all the subjects, but have some experience
with e-mail/http/firewalls. So I hope more will give their opinion.

> been using MS packages. What I would like to do is have packages able
> to be implemented and executed at console level, but administered 
> (modified and viewed) through X or remotely through web
Just ssh to the firewall and do your admin stuff...

> 
> This would be for following requirements
> 1) Firewall settings and hits, logs etc
I've you really want to do things the right way, learn about iptables
and make yourself a nice script. Iptables is in the 2.4.* kernels, by
the way. Ipchains was the 2.2.* version of iptables.

> 2) If possible would like to be able to restrict access to web sites
> and ports on a user/group basis.
I have no experience with that, but I think you can filter on owner of a
process in iptables, see man iptables and then 'owner'. But I'm not sure
if that's what you mean. If you're talking about securing your own
webpages you can best let users login. If you need to restrict websites
on the 'dangerous' internet you're talking about proxies, see 3).

> 3) Proxy settings and viewing cache hits and contents etc
Don't really know much know about that, I think you need squid..
> 4) Email server (prefer pop/smtp), adding/editing/removing users and
> groups etc
I like 'exim' for smtp, it is has a lot of config options. And I use
courier-imap,-pop as for imap and pop. 

> I would like something that can eventually work in tables, if I start
> using stable debian potato then change to stable woody once released
I'm not sure what you mean with this, but I would go for woody right
now. There's not going to change much when the release happens and that
will happen very soon anyway (I think..)

> Also they will be implemented on modem link and/or ADSL.
> Most client machines will be windows platform. for now anyway ;-).
Change that asap ;)

I think you should go to http://www.ibiblio.org/Linux/ to read
somethings about networking and stuff...

Grtjs TIm


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Re: Debian: abandon ship?

[Oleg]

On Wednesday 05 June 2002 09:25 am, Brooks R. Robinson wrote:
> 1.  Woody is frozen.
> 2.  It is unlikely that any new packages are going in, assumption based
> upon point 1.
> 3.  Security is not in place to handle Woody.
> 4.  A security issue would more than likely be a release critical bug.
> 5.  Security bugs are, in my experience, very quickly remedied.
> 6.  Contrary to point 2, a security/release critical bug fixed package
> would make it's way into Woody quickly.
> 7.  We can ignore point 2 from a security standpoint by making use of point

How does FreeBSD manage to stay reasonably secure and stable, yet modern 
(compared to Potato)?

Oleg


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Re: Upgrade to Woody

[Colin Watson]

On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 02:05:41PM +0100, Paladin wrote:
> I'm currently using Debian's stable release but, due to some delays in the
> versions of some libraries that won't let me compile some programs, I
> would like to upgrade to Woody. My question is (of course): how!?

Try the release notes, here:

  http://www.debian.org/releases/woody/i386/release-notes/index.en.html

Regards,

-- 
Colin Watson  [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: What do I need for email virus checking on debian server?

[Derrick 'dman' Hudson]

On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 08:29:49AM +0800, Motiv8d wrote:
| Hi Further to my last post.  I would also like to be able to virus check 
| email attachments, change extensions on .js etc
| What would be the suitable antivirus options? and
| Email package or addon that allows rule based modification of attachments 
| and does the other things my last post mentioned.

My solution is some simple regex patterns in the ACLs and system
filter for exim.  All I do is reject the mail that matches a
well-known virus.  A "full-blown" virus-scanning engine is far too
much overkill.  It's trivially easy to identify each new wave of
Microsloth worms and add a new regex for it.

-D

-- 

Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge,
but he who hates correction is stupid.
Proverbs 12:1
 
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Re: OT: mutt and followup_to

[Derrick 'dman' Hudson]

On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 09:51:29AM +0100, Colin Watson wrote:
| On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 10:11:05AM +1000, Chris Kenrick wrote:
| > According to mutt doco, if one sets followup_to to yes, and adds a
| > mailing list definition eg subscribe [EMAIL PROTECTED], then
| > mutt will automagically add the Mail-Followup-To header to mails sent to
| > that list.
| > 
| > At what point does the header get added?  When I use E to edit the
| > message with full headers just prior to sending, I don't see it.  Does
| > it get added later, or is there something I'm missing?
| 
| Yeah, it appears to get added immediately before sending. As far as I
| know, the only way to override this is to add your own Mail-Followup-To:
| header.

http://www.fefe.de/muttfaq/faq.html

How can I change the Mail-Followup-To Header?

Simply set mutt's edit_hdrs variable, and supply one yourself.
Mutt will generate a Mail-Followup-To header if and only if you
didn't supply one, and the message is directed to at least one
subscribed mailing list.

-D 

-- 

The wise in heart are called discerning,
and pleasant words promote instruction.
Proverbs 16:21
 
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Re: in case you missed this from ponik

[Derrick 'dman' Hudson]

On Wed, Jun 05, 2002 at 08:34:27AM -0300, Jeronimo Pellegrini wrote:
 
| > In any case, idiots who auto-reply to every list mail they receive until 
| > they get their way are not easily defeated by any technological solution.
| 
| He he... Indeed!

Actually, it's really easy to blackhole their messages on your end.
From your POV it's basically the same thing (apart from bandwidth
usage).

-D

-- 

"...In the UNIX world, people tend to interpret `non-technical user' as
meaning someone who's only ever written one device driver."
--Daniel Pead
 
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Re: in case you missed this from ponik

[Derrick 'dman' Hudson]

On Tue, Jun 04, 2002 at 10:39:02PM -0700, Brian Dessent wrote:
| Jeronimo Pellegrini wrote:
| 
| > Blocking his posts to the list while the listmaster tries to help
| > him could help -- if the listmaster has the time to do that, of course!
| > That would save a lot of bandwidth (the offending posts *and* the
| > discussion about them would at least not last too long), but this can't
| > be easily done automatically [1].
 
| To me, the best solution to this would be to customize the tagline on
| each outgoing message, so that it would read something like "you are
| subscribed as [EMAIL PROTECTED], to remove send a message _from that
| address_ to [EMAIL PROTECTED] with the magic word."

| I don't know how hard or easy this would be to implement, but it sounds
| nontrivial.

IMO this is a bad choice.  This will increase the load on the mail
server (murphy.debian.org) by several orders of magnitude because all
messages will then contain unique content.  The ability to connect to
a server and use multiple RCPT TO: commands to eliminate duplicate
transfers of the message contents depends on the recipients all
receiving the same content.

| I suppose there are some privacy / archival issues, such as
| the desire to scrub mailing list archives of email addresses to foil
| spambots.

Who cares about that?  Use SA to reject the spam mails and get removed
from the lists.  I think it really works because SA rejects less spam
now than it did when I first set it up (and I'm not getting those
high-scoring messages delivered).

-D

-- 

Microsoft: "Windows NT 4.0 now has the same user-interface as Windows 95"
Windows 95: "Press CTRL-ALT-DEL to reboot"
Windows NT 4.0: "Press CTRL-ALT-DEL to login"
 
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Re: Debian: abandon ship?

[Sean 'Shaleh' Perry]

> 
> With hindsight, it's clear that trying to
> support too many architectures was a mistake.
> Of course, everybody makes mistakes. It is truly
> said that he who never made a mistake, never
> made anything.
> 
> But what separates the doers from the wannabes
> is the ability to admit a mistake, change
> direction, and move on.
> 
> If the people in effective control of Debian's
> direction no longer have this ability, then
> perhaps Debian is no longer useful to most
> of us.
> 
> To save the Debian Attack Team the effort
> of a search, I'll admit immediately that
> (like most Debian users) I've contributed
> nothing to Debian except good intentions
> and trivial amounts of money. Debian does
> not need me. And I need a stable release
> with the 2.4 kernel.
> 

Debian is run by a few hundred programmers who do this for fun.  Not profit. 
Because we do this for fun we choose where to spend our time.  For some people
the mips architecture and the required hacking is fun.  Others are constrained
by the hardware available to them (some of our developers had m68k only access).

Debian will never make it to perfect 6 month release cycles.  To use Debian you
must acclimate to apt-get and the "we release every day" credo.  Although we
call it "unstable" what we really mean is "changing".  If you choose to not
update then you have a fairly stable box.  I wish there was more we could do,
but there isn't.  Especially now that most of us are not being paid for Debian
work anymore.  Cutting back to ia32 (x86) would help, but the cost is not worth
it.  Besides, Debian is one of the few dists out there supporting anything
other than Sun and ia32.  Removing those arches would leave out many of our
users and potential users.  The answers are not so cut and dried.

Maybe this means we lose some users to Red Hat (or SuSE or whoever) and their 6
month cd releases.  Everyone has to use what works for them.

As for your last comment about contributing a good user contributes two simple
things:

* they use our software, like it, and tell others

Every linux dist is fighting the marketing of Red Hat.  This is witnessed by
UnitedLinux and by many other people's work.  Voicing the virtues of Debian
helping us work through our problems is a great help.  Criticism is good as
long as it is constructive.  That some of our people abused the earlier poster
is disappointing.  However there are more than 600 of us and we do act with our
own free will.

* bug reports

Without knowing that something is broke for the way you use it we can not fix
it.  Debian lives and dies with its bug tracker.  This is more important than
money or even hardware.


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