date:20141112

On Ma, 11 nov 14, 18:25:03, Miles Fidelman wrote:
 Andrei POPESCU wrote:
 On Ma, 11 nov 14, 12:34:10, Miles Fidelman wrote:
 Laurent Bigonville wrote:
 There are no functional differences between an installation with
 sysvinit-core out of the box or an install where sysvinit-core is
 installed later, this is a fact.
 No, that's NOT a fact.  At least it's not a tested and demonstrated fact for
 complex configurations such as virtualized environments with complicated
 file system wiring.
 Wasn't this about clean (minimal) installs? Where did the all the
 complications come from?
 
 Clean as in install systemvinit from the beginning, not after systemd was
 first installed by default.

Let me rephrase: install from scratch.
 
 Where the complications come in is that, when talking about testing the
 assertion that there are no complications associated with an unclean
 install, I pointed out that testing in a real environment is different than
 on a basic machine.
 
 In my case, I'm worried about artifacts that might impact the stuff that
 I'll install immediately after the core system - like Xen, DRBD,
 cluster-glue, and then how an unclean install behaves inside a VM on top of
 that environment.

1. do a minimal install
2. replace systemd(-sysv) with sysvinit-core (e.g. via a late_command)
3. install your stuff

If you find any artifacts left by systemd after step 2. please report 
bugs.
 
 Based on previous experience, mostly with mail systems (install exim, then
 replace with sendmail) and filesystems, it's very easy to find oneself with
 all kinds of artifacts left behind by an install/replace process; as well as
 finding one's way into lots of packages getting installed/replaced and
 associated dependency hell.
 Do you have any concrete evidence for such issues in this concrete case?
 Because I'm quite sure the developers would like to know about them.
 After all, that's the purpose of piuparts.
 
 https://piuparts.debian.org/
 https://piuparts.debian.org/sid/pass/systemd_215-5+b1.log
 
 Sorry, but no.  I'm basing my decision on whether to invest time in in-depth
 testing on previous experience with what I consider to be analogous
 situations.

Just because some packages (you mentioned exim and sendmail) is (was?) 
buggy says absolutely nothing about other packages.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: A Synaptic question

2014-11-12 Thread Karl E. Jorgensen

Hi

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 06:27:16AM -0300, Renaud OLGIATI wrote:
 In my recently installed Debian 7.7 in notice in Synaptic Settings = 
 Repositories = Updates that I can choose to be notified of being notified of 
 a new Ubuntu version.
 
 Ubuntu ?

Sounds like a bug...  And from perusing
http://bugs.debian.org/synaptic it appears to be new

I recommend that you report this bug - tools like reportbug should
help you

:-)

-- 
Karl E. Jorgensen


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Re: find problem

2014-11-12 Thread Raffaele Morelli

On 11/11/14 at 04:09pm, B. M. wrote:
 Hi all,
 
 I'm struggling with a find problem.
 
 I want to combine find and par2create recursively in order to get the
 following done:
 
 Foreach file with a certain suffix (e.g. avi) do par2create for that
 file in its directory, so e.g.
 
 I'm in /video
 There are subfolders user1, user2 with videos video1.avi, video2.avi ...
 in them.
 
 The script should do something equivalent to:
 cd /video/user1
 par2create .video1.avi video1.avi
 par2create .video2.avi video2.avi
 cd /video/user2
 par2create .video3.avi video3.avi
 par2create .video4.avi video4.avi
 cd initial directory
 
 But I want to achieve this using the find command.
 
 So I'd expect something like
 find * -name *.avi -execdir par2create .'{}' '{} \;
 but this doesn't work as expected - it creates the .*.avi files one
 folder above.
 
 How does it work using the find command?
 
 Thanks a lot!

I did a test with cp:
find config/ -name custom.php -execdir cp '{}' '{}'.pippo \;
files are copied with added suffix.


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« Nunc est bibendum, nunc pede libero pulsanda tellus »


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Re: A Synaptic question

2014-11-12 Thread Ron

On Wed, 12 Nov 2014 10:10:33 +
Karl E. Jorgensen k...@jorgensen.org.uk wrote:

  In my recently installed Debian 7.7 in notice in Synaptic Settings = 
  Repositories = Updates that I can choose to be notified of being notified 
  of a new Ubuntu version.
  
  Ubuntu ?  
 
 Sounds like a bug...  And from perusing
 http://bugs.debian.org/synaptic it appears to be new
 
 I recommend that you report this bug - tools like reportbug should
 help you

Done, thank you.
 
Cheers,
 
Ron.
-- 
   Intolerance is itself a form of violence
  and an obstacle to the growth of a true democratic spirit.
   -- Mahatma Gandhi

   -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --
 


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Re: Joey Hess is out?

On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 12:42:00PM -0600, John Hasler wrote:
 Don Armstrong writes:
  Sexism like this is inappropriate in Debian. Please stop.
 
 Ok.  List-parental-units.

Or LPU's for short. :)

-- 
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing. --- Malcolm X


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Re: Installing an Alternative Init?

On 11/11/2014 3:33 PM, Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net wrote:
 Actually, there's a patch (thank you Kenshi).  It has not been applied.  
 Hence, to use it right now, one has to build a custom version of the 
 installer.  I hope, that post the initial Jessie release, the deboostrap 
 and installer maintainers will apply the patch.

Since the bug is so old (dates back to wheezy), and a patch exists and
still hasn't been applied, I think it is likely that they simply don't
*want* to fix this bug, since that would negatively impact the desire to
get as many people using systemd as possible, so they can be counted in
the stats of 'satisfied systemd users', even if many/most don't even
*know* they're running a different init system.


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[OT] Unfortunate sig (was ... Re: Joey Hess is out?)

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 03:35:08AM +0800, Bret Busby wrote:
 On 12/11/2014, Don Armstrong d...@debian.org wrote:
 
  I will not make any deals with you. I've resigned. I will not be
  pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed or numbered. My
  life is my own. I resign.
   -- Patrick McGoohan as Number 6 in The Prisoner
 
 The included quotation above, in the signature of Don Armstrong, is
 interesting by its context, in this thread that apprently relates to a
 resignation from the Debian developers, which resignation, from what
 has been posted about that resignation, appears to resemble the
 wording of the quotation.

What is ridiculous is this latest attempt at The Prisoner with that
guy from Person of Interest. This new guy is No 6 and yet there are
people numbered 1160 etc. WTF! At least in the original, it *was* a
village with a small population. It seems the Americans who instigated
this remake actually have no idea what a village is.

 Also interesting, is that I believe that the actor Patrick McGoohan is
 starring in a series currently being broadcast on one of the
 television networks here (when television broadcasts can be received
 here), where he stars in the title role of Dangerman.

ROFLMAO, what danger can he possibly cause at his age! wiping coffee
off keyboard

-- 
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing. --- Malcolm X


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Re: Joey Hess is out?

On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 07:53:47AM -0600, John Hasler wrote:
 Chris Bannister writes:
  I read that as 'trouble unsubscribing?' then Contact
  listmas...@lists.debian.org.
 
 I wrote:
  I read it as 'technical trouble with this list'.  You're right, though:
  now that we have listmoms the footer needs to be redone.  File a
  wishlist bug.
 
 Chris Bannister writes:
  'listmoms'?
 
 Vernacular for moderators, making sure that we play nice.

Ahhh ... you mean *listmums*. 

-- 
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing. --- Malcolm X


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Re: Installing Android development software


[Please don't top post, it makes it hard to read/follow]

On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 06:39:42PM +, Steve Greig wrote:
 apt-cache search android | less
 
 returns some interesting results?
 
 
 That was useful to know how to  search the APT cache.
 
 
 I am thinking of starting a new thread as I am completely unable to
 find any of the files and folders I created when I downloaded and
 installed the adt-bundle. I definitely had it on my system but now I
 can't find it. I was wondering if it could have uninstalled itself.
 The other possibility is I am not searching in the right places and am
 not using the find files procedure correctly.

If it was installed via a .deb file, then:

dpkg -L package-name 

will list the files that came with the package.

-- 
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing. --- Malcolm X


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Nvidia MCP51 Ethernet controller, link is not ready

2014-11-12 Thread Achim Spreen


Hello.
I have a desktop PC with AMD Sempron, a Nvidia MCP51 (on board) 
Ethernet controller, Debian 7.6-amd64, Lxde and this problems with eth0: 
eth0 is not up after bootup, not at irq 21 or other irq, Speed: Unknown, 
Duplex: Unknown, Link detected: no

The cable is o.k. and connected.

# /etc/network/interfaces:
...
auto eth0
iface eth0 inet dhcp
---
:~$ lspci -vv
...
00:14.0 Bridge: NVIDIA Corporation MCP51 Ethernet Controller (rev a1)
Subsystem: ASRock Incorporation Device 0269
Control: I/O+ Mem+ BusMaster+ SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr- 
Stepping- SERR- FastB2B- DisINTx-
Status: Cap+ 66MHz+ UDF- FastB2B+ ParErr- DEVSEL=fast TAbort- TAbort- 
MAbort- SERR- PERR- INTx-

Latency: 0 (250ns min, 5000ns max)
Interrupt: pin A routed to IRQ 21
Region 0: Memory at febdc000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K]
Region 1: I/O ports at e800 [size=8]
Capabilities: access denied
Kernel driver in use: forcedeth
--
:~$ dmesg | grep -i nvidia
[0.00] Nvidia board detected. Ignoring ACPI timer override.
-
:~$ dmesg | grep -i forcedeth
[0.822689] forcedeth: Reverse Engineered nForce ethernet driver. 
Version 0.64.

[0.822962] forcedeth :00:14.0: setting latency timer to 64
[1.345117] forcedeth :00:14.0: ifname eth0, PHY OUI 0x732 @ 1, 
addr 00:13:8f:6c:67:24

[1.345124] forcedeth :00:14.0: highdma pwrctl lnktim desc-v3
---
:~$ dmesg | grep -i link
...
[0.503828] audit: initializing netlink socket (disabled)
[0.818955] ACPI: PCI Interrupt Link [LMAC] enabled at IRQ 21
[   10.060067] ACPI: PCI Interrupt Link [LACI] enabled at IRQ 20
[   49.312804] ACPI: PCI Interrupt Link [LNEC] enabled at IRQ 19
--
:~# ethtool eth0
Settings for eth0:
Supported ports: [ MII ]
Supported link modes:   10baseT/Half 10baseT/Full
100baseT/Half 100baseT/Full
Supported pause frame use: No
Supports auto-negotiation: Yes
Advertised link modes:  10baseT/Half 10baseT/Full
100baseT/Half 100baseT/Full
Advertised pause frame use: No
Advertised auto-negotiation: Yes
Speed: Unknown!
Duplex: Unknown! (255)
Port: MII
PHYAD: 1
Transceiver: external
Auto-negotiation: on
Supports Wake-on: g
Wake-on: g
Link detected: no

:~# ethtool -s eth0 msglvl link on
Cannot get msglvl: Operation not supported

:~# ethtool -s eth0 duplex full
Cannot advertise duplex full

-
:~# modinfo forcedeth
filename:   
/lib/modules/3.2.0-4-amd64/kernel/drivers/net/ethernet/nvidia/forcedeth.ko

...
depends:
intree: Y
vermagic:   3.2.0-4-amd64 SMP mod_unload modversions
parm:   max_interrupt_work:forcedeth maximum events handled per 
interrupt (int)
parm:   optimization_mode:In throughput mode (0), every tx  rx 
packet will generate an interrupt. In CPU mode (1), interrupts are 
controlled by a timer. In dynamic mode (2), the mode toggles between 
throughput and CPU mode based on network load. (int)
parm:   poll_interval:Interval determines how frequent timer 
interrupt is generated by [(time_in_micro_secs * 100) / (2^10)]. Min is 
0 and Max is 65535. (int)
parm:   msi:MSI interrupts are enabled by setting to 1 and 
disabled by setting to 0. (int)
parm:   msix:MSIX interrupts are enabled by setting to 1 and 
disabled by setting to 0. (int)
parm:   dma_64bit:High DMA is enabled by setting to 1 and 
disabled by setting to 0. (int)
parm:   phy_cross:Phy crossover detection for Realtek 8201 phy 
is enabled by setting to 1 and disabled by setting to 0. (int)
parm:   phy_power_down:Power down phy and disable link when 
interface is down (1), or leave phy powered up (0). (int)



I need some help with this
Thanks


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Re: Installing an Alternative Init?

On 11/11/2014 2:16 PM, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote:
 New users do not need to be be aware of all the background to the
 choosing of a default init. No advertisement is needed. By definition,
 they do not care. They want Debian. Please let them have it.

Wow... what arrogance...

That is tantamount to treating the debian userbase as lost little
children who need to have all of the important decisions made for them.

 What choice have they lost? Whatever it was, it didn't exist as you imply
 in Wheezy.

Ahem... it didn't exist because it didn't *need* to exist, because
debian hasn't changed its default init system since... when?

Interesting... googling, I couldn't even find out when debian first
started using sysvinit, so I guess it has been for a very long time.

In my opinion, the systemd proponents should have been required to fix
the bug allowing users to easily select the init system at install time
*in wheezy* - *and* commit to keeping it working in jessie - as a
pre-condition of even getting the question of switching to it as the
default for jessie *on the ballot*.


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Re: INTEL HD Graphics

On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 08:04:02PM +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
 On 11 November 2014 17:30, Morten Bo Johansen m...@spamcop.net wrote:
  On 2014-11-11 Lisi Reisz wrote:
 
  Intel runs fine on Wheezy, though you do need a kernel upgrade in the
  form of a backported kernel for some (though not all) Intel drivers.
 
  Of course, but if you are using backported packages, you are
  not really running Wheezy anymore.
 
 I'm certainly not running Jessie.  Look back at your original email.

It can be argued that if you are using backports then by definition you
are no longer running a stable system, which in this case is Wheezy.

Maybe a bit on the pedantic side, but in technical jargon is anything
pedantic?

Consider the result of saying Don't be so pedantic to a mathematician.
:)

-- 
If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people
who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the 
oppressing. --- Malcolm X


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Re: Installing Android development software

2014-11-12 Thread Joel Rees

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 3:39 AM, Steve Greig greigst...@gmail.com wrote:
apt-cache search android | less

returns some interesting results?


 That was useful to know how to  search the APT cache.


 I am thinking of starting a new thread as I am completely unable to
 find any of the files and folders I created when I downloaded and
 installed the adt-bundle. I definitely had it on my system but now I
 can't find it. I was wondering if it could have uninstalled itself.
 The other possibility is I am not searching in the right places and am
 not using the find files procedure correctly.

If you installed it under your user's home directory,

find /home -name android

as root should do it. Or log in as the user you think you were when
you installed it to search.

Or updatedb (probably as root) and locate?

-- 
Joel Rees


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Re: Installing an Alternative Init?


Tanstaafl wrote:

On 11/11/2014 3:33 PM, Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net wrote:

Actually, there's a patch (thank you Kenshi).  It has not been applied.
Hence, to use it right now, one has to build a custom version of the
installer.  I hope, that post the initial Jessie release, the deboostrap
and installer maintainers will apply the patch.

Since the bug is so old (dates back to wheezy), and a patch exists and
still hasn't been applied, I think it is likely that they simply don't
*want* to fix this bug, since that would negatively impact the desire to
get as many people using systemd as possible, so they can be counted in
the stats of 'satisfied systemd users', even if many/most don't even
*know* they're running a different init system.




+1

--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.    Yogi Berra


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Re: Installing an Alternative Init?


Tanstaafl wrote:

On 11/11/2014 2:16 PM, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote:

New users do not need to be be aware of all the background to the
choosing of a default init. No advertisement is needed. By definition,
they do not care. They want Debian. Please let them have it.

Wow... what arrogance...

That is tantamount to treating the debian userbase as lost little
children who need to have all of the important decisions made for them.


What choice have they lost? Whatever it was, it didn't exist as you imply
in Wheezy.

Ahem... it didn't exist because it didn't *need* to exist, because
debian hasn't changed its default init system since... when?

Interesting... googling, I couldn't even find out when debian first
started using sysvinit, so I guess it has been for a very long time.

In my opinion, the systemd proponents should have been required to fix
the bug allowing users to easily select the init system at install time
*in wheezy* - *and* commit to keeping it working in jessie - as a
pre-condition of even getting the question of switching to it as the
default for jessie *on the ballot*.



+100

--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.    Yogi Berra


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Re: INTEL HD Graphics

2014-11-12 Thread Man_Without_Clue



On 11/12/2014 08:32 PM, Chris Bannister wrote:

On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 08:04:02PM +, Lisi Reisz wrote:

On 11 November 2014 17:30, Morten Bo Johansen m...@spamcop.net wrote:

On 2014-11-11 Lisi Reisz wrote:


Intel runs fine on Wheezy, though you do need a kernel upgrade in the
form of a backported kernel for some (though not all) Intel drivers.

Of course, but if you are using backported packages, you are
not really running Wheezy anymore.

I'm certainly not running Jessie.  Look back at your original email.

It can be argued that if you are using backports then by definition you
are no longer running a stable system, which in this case is Wheezy.

Maybe a bit on the pedantic side, but in technical jargon is anything
pedantic?

Consider the result of saying Don't be so pedantic to a mathematician.
:)



Ok, enough.

So my understanding is that it works with newer kernel, correct?



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Re: [OT] Unfortunate sig (was ... Re: Joey Hess is out?)

2014-11-12 Thread John Hasler

Chris Bannister writes:
 ROFLMAO, what danger can he possibly cause at his age! wiping coffee
 off keyboard

Dangerman was made in the 1960s.
-- 
John Never pick a fight with an old man.  He may be to tired to fight
and so he'll just kill you Hasler 
jhas...@newsguy.com
Elmwood, WI USA


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Re: Re: need help in rights delegation to a freelance web developer

2014-11-12 Thread Muhammad Yousuf Khan

 NOTE: These help, but if you end up on the attacking end of a distributed
 bot attack, it's likely that your Apache server will get hosed -- at times,
 I've had to tune Apache (number of concurrent processes, number of
 concurrent queries), to keep our server from getting so overloaded that it
 crashes.



Thank for sharing every bit of information. yes i do want to tweak Apache
concurrent connection and other settings. is there any formula to do this.
would you like to share your thoughts on this.

how to find the cause of restart of my debian 7 machine.

2014-11-12 Thread Muhammad Yousuf Khan

my machine was ON for several weeks but today it restarted for unknown
reason. now it is working find. since the server is restarted there are too
many log entries in var/log/messager and syslog as startup events. is there
any easy way to reach the specific entry related to the event.
i have search keywords like error and others in the log that i was
expecting but failed.


Thanks,
Yousuf

Re: need help in rights delegation to a freelance web developer


Muhammad Yousuf Khan wrote:




NOTE: These help, but if you end up on the attacking end of a
distributed bot attack, it's likely that your Apache server will
get hosed -- at times, I've had to tune Apache (number of
concurrent processes, number of concurrent queries), to keep our
server from getting so overloaded that it crashes.



Thank for sharing every bit of information. yes i do want to tweak 
Apache concurrent connection and other settings. is there any formula 
to do this. would you like to share your thoughts on this.


Unfortunately, what I shared is about all I know on the topic.  Most of 
my hardening of Wordpress and Apache was on-the-fly, in response to a 
botnet attack.  I did some googling and searching the WordPress plug-in 
site to find the plug-ins that I use, played with the settings a bit 
just to get things working, nothing orderly or that I could share as a 
best practice.  For Apache, I just started in the config file and 
reducing max_ settings until I reached a level where I wasn't having to 
restart Apache every few minutes, or rebooting the machine.  
Unfortunately, the Wordpress site still becomes unreachable at times 
(when under attack), and the site runs slow at other times (limited 
number of concurrent accesses), but at least it doesn't take down the 
entire server - which is a good thing as the Wordpress site is a 
sideline, the server is really for mail and list processing.


I did come across some references to software that could dynamically 
tune IP chains, based on wordpress level attacks -- to block IP 
addresses earlier in the processing chain, and I expect one could push 
that back to an external firewall -- but I never went all that far in 
exploring these.  (If you end up doing so, please report back!).


Happy Tuning,

Miles

--
In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice.
In practice, there is.    Yogi Berra


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Re: Installing an Alternative Init?

2014-11-12 Thread Laurent Bigonville

Le Wed, 12 Nov 2014 06:10:55 -0500,
Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org a écrit :

 On 11/11/2014 3:33 PM, Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net
 wrote:
  Actually, there's a patch (thank you Kenshi).  It has not been
  applied. Hence, to use it right now, one has to build a custom
  version of the installer.  I hope, that post the initial Jessie
  release, the deboostrap and installer maintainers will apply the
  patch.
 
 Since the bug is so old (dates back to wheezy), and a patch exists and
 still hasn't been applied, I think it is likely that they simply don't
 *want* to fix this bug, since that would negatively impact the desire
 to get as many people using systemd as possible, so they can be
 counted in the stats of 'satisfied systemd users', even if many/most
 don't even *know* they're running a different init system.

Any evidences of this? Because you know this also has an impact for
other packages that have OR statement in their dependencies.

Also are you aware that back to 2012, the changes needed to install
systemd-sysv package on the machine were way bigger than today due to
the fact that sysvinit was the only package that you could install on
your machine that was providing /bin/init because this package was
marked Essential: yes. In the meantime, the Essential flag moved from
sysvinit to the init meta-package to allow more init system to be
installable. So like Michael said, Jessie will indeed be the first
version that allows you to have an alternate init without modifying the
kernel cmdline.

Now the bug is just debootstrap ignoring OR in the dependencies. And
as Kibi said on the bug, the patch arrived late in the d-i schedule
(patch proposed the 17/10, more than 10 days after the release of the
2nd beta of the installer).


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Re: Installing an Alternative Init?

On 11/12/2014 9:02 AM, Laurent Bigonville bi...@debian.org wrote:
 So like Michael said, Jessie will indeed be the first
 version that allows you to have an alternate init without modifying the
 kernel cmdline.

Which is precisely *why* the systemd proponents should have been
required to fix that bug and get the ability to switch to a different
init system *in wheezy*, along with a reasonable amount of time to flesh
out any corner-case bugs, long before consideration would be given to
switching to systemd as the default init system in jessie.

Meaning - the approval to switch was *incredibly* premature.


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Re: INTEL HD Graphics

2014-11-12 Thread Christian Seiler


Am 2014-11-12 14:31, schrieb Man_Without_Clue:

On 11/12/2014 08:32 PM, Chris Bannister wrote:

On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 08:04:02PM +, Lisi Reisz wrote:
On 11 November 2014 17:30, Morten Bo Johansen m...@spamcop.net 
wrote:

On 2014-11-11 Lisi Reisz wrote:

Intel runs fine on Wheezy, though you do need a kernel upgrade in 
the
form of a backported kernel for some (though not all) Intel 
drivers.

Of course, but if you are using backported packages, you are
not really running Wheezy anymore.
I'm certainly not running Jessie.  Look back at your original 
email.
It can be argued that if you are using backports then by definition 
you

are no longer running a stable system, which in this case is Wheezy.

Maybe a bit on the pedantic side, but in technical jargon is 
anything

pedantic?

Consider the result of saying Don't be so pedantic to a 
mathematician.

:)



Ok, enough.

So my understanding is that it works with newer kernel, correct?


Well, yes and no.

Under wheezy Xorg (GUI) works properly even with the old kernel, but
only with the old VESA driver. (Which doesn't support a lot of stuff,
especially no acceleration.)

Modesetting does work with newer kernels, (i.e. once your drivers are
loaded, it will properly change the text mode console, but the Xorg
drivers that come with wheezy are not sufficiently new to support it
properly, so you would need to use some updated drivers.

However, in wheezy-backports there are some updated drivers that will
*probably* work with your graphics card, but I haven't tested it.

So basically, you could try to

 1. Activate backports
http://backports.debian.org/Instructions/
 2. apt-get update
 3. apt-get -t wheezy-backports install linux-image-amd64 \
 xserver-xorg-video-intel

(Disclaimer: Untested.)

Note that wheezy comes with mesa 8.x, which doesn't support 3D
acceleration for Haswell, you need at least mesa 9 for that. (jessie
will come with mesa 10.) The above backports setup will 'just' give you
some 2D acceleration (which already makes a difference) and nice
secondary things like proper support for multiple monitors etc.

If you want full support for your graphics card (within Debian), your
best bet is to try jessie for this. Though it's not officially stable
yet, to me it does look to be in quite good shape already.

Christian


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Re: Perfect Jessie is something like this...

2014-11-12 Thread Klistvud


Dne, 02. 11. 2014 11:44:47 je Jyri J. Virkki napisal(a):

I imagine, hopefully, that such a question is clearly ludicrous and
obviously completely misses the point? I don't use Windows due to it
having this or that bug! I don't use it because everything about it is
dissonant with how my mind works. Like nails on chalkboard.


+1


UNIX, in any of its forms including Linux, is pure harmony though. I
can't imagine I'm alone, isn't that why we're all here?


You are not alone. My reasons for migrating to Debian (just prior to  
Lenny becoming Stable), for example, were predominantly the DFSG and  
the Debian Social Contract. The spirit of the Debian distro more than  
its technical merits. Technical merits came a very distant second,  
and were only considered in a very nebulous manner: I had been vaguely  
hearing about Debian being quite stable and conservative -- two  
epithets that appealed to me, as I:

1) am not particularly fond of my computer crashing too frequently, and
2) don't like my OS to permanently and headlessly chase the newest fad;  
it's what repels me in Ubuntu and other glossy distros, and what also  
ultimately made me leave Gnome3 as my desktop environment and migrate  
to the more spartan LXDE.
As a side note: once systemd is put in place, such problem-less and  
swift migration between desktop environments is just one of the many  
Good Things Linux going down the drain...



debian has been my go-to distro personally and professionally for
about 15 years now, because it is awesome. I want to spend another 15+
years together. But if systemd is allowed to take over I'll have to
move on. It'll be a very sad day, but just like I can't sanely use
Windows, systemd is out of the question for the exact same reasons.


It will be a very sad day for me too. Let's just hope Wheezy gets LTS  
so we can postpone that gloomy parting for a couple years at least :(



--
Kinda regards,
my beast washes

Klistvud  
http://bufferoverflow.tiddlyspot.com
Certifiable Loonix Oozer #481801 Please reply to the list, not to  
me.


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Re: how to find the cause of restart of my debian 7 machine.

2014-11-12 Thread Gary Dale


On 12/11/14 08:40 AM, Muhammad Yousuf Khan wrote:
my machine was ON for several weeks but today it restarted for unknown 
reason. now it is working find. since the server is restarted there 
are too many log entries in var/log/messager and syslog as startup 
events. is there any easy way to reach the specific entry related to 
the event.
i have search keywords like error and others in the log that i was 
expecting but failed.



Thanks,
Yousuf


The cause of an unexpected reboot may be difficult to ascertain. Clues 
may be found in the messages immediately prior to the shutdown, but not 
if the shutdown was hardware related.


For example, someone may have pressed the reset button or there may have 
been a power interruption. In both cases the machine would be working 
normally with nothing in the logs until you start seeing the startup 
messages.


On the other hand, if the machine rebooted for a software issue, you 
would expect to see shutdown message before the startup messages. In 
this case there may be log entries immediately prior to the shutdown 
messages.



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Re: Installing an Alternative Init?

Le mercredi, 12 novembre 2014, 09.11:40 Tanstaafl a écrit :
 Which is precisely *why* (people) should have been required to fix
 that bug (…)

This is simply not how Debian works.

OdyX


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Re: Installing an Alternative Init?


Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:

Le mercredi, 12 novembre 2014, 09.11:40 Tanstaafl a écrit :

Which is precisely *why* (people) should have been required to fix
that bug (…)

This is simply not how Debian works.



You mean a bug can't be marked as release critical?

Miles Fidelman


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Gigabyte BRIX with (Debian) Linux

2014-11-12 Thread Catalin Soare

Hi everyone,

I am thinking of buying one of these devices, and I was wondering if
someone on the list has been successful in installing Debian on any BRIX
device, and if they could share impressions.

Here is one that I have in mind:

http://www.bestbuy.com/site/gigabyte-brix-desktop-computer/1309084555.p?id=mp1309084555skuId=1309084555

Thanks for any input


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Re: Perfect Jessie is something like this...

2014-11-12 Thread Martin Read


On 12/11/14 14:20, Klistvud wrote:

As a side note: once systemd is put in place, such problem-less and
swift migration between desktop environments is just one of the many
Good Things Linux going down the drain...


Eh? I'm running XFCE *just fine* on a jessie box with systemd as init, 
and if I wanted to switch to a different DE, all I'd need to do is 
install it and tell my display manager to launch that flavour of session.


Using systemd as your init daemon does not force you to use GNOME; it 
doesn't even force you to use a desktop environment when you use X.



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Re: Installing an Alternative Init?

On 11/12/2014 10:13 AM, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud o...@debian.org wrote:
 Le mercredi, 12 novembre 2014, 09.11:40 Tanstaafl a écrit :
 Which is precisely *why* (people) should have been required to fix
 that bug (…)
 
 This is simply not how Debian works.

If Debian works in such a way that the Tech Committee can *dictate* a
major change to what is agreed upon by most as a critical piece of the
operating system (in this case the init system) - especially one that
has gone unchanged for as long as anyone can remember - then I submit to
you that indeed they *can* require that as a part of such a change,
certain minimal requirements be met.

Anything else just makes no sense.


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Re: Installing an Alternative Init?

Le mercredi, 12 novembre 2014, 10.17:54 Miles Fidelman a écrit :
 Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:
  Le mercredi, 12 novembre 2014, 09.11:40 Tanstaafl a écrit :
  Which is precisely *why* (people) should have been required to fix
  that bug (…)
  
  This is simply not how Debian works.
 
 You mean a bug can't be marked as release critical?

I mean that people cannot be required to fix bugs.

Furthermore, the people in the Release Team have the final word (modulo 
GR override) on what they consider release critical. This definition 
happens to currently match the policy severity definition, but isn't 
necessarily so; in particular, they've used their 'wheezy-ignore' tags 
during the last freeze for bugs that had a particular severity but that 
they didn't consider release-critical.

I can't insist enough on this: the Debian procedures have been correctly 
followed; the TC took a decision which could be challenged by a simple 
majority GR [0]. This GR has never been called by anyone with voting 
rights, or hasn't gathered enough seconds to get to a vote. The TC 
decision stays in force as a decision to have systemd as default init 
system for jessie.

You might very well be unhappy with this situation, the way the decision 
was taken, the way it wasn't challenged by the DDs, the fact that no 
conditions were posed to systemd maintainers, or anything else, that's 
totally fine. Please just be aware that repeating your unhappiness ad 
nauseam will not change that fact.

OdyX

[0] 20140211193904.gx24...@rzlab.ucr.edu


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Re: Installing an Alternative Init?

2014-11-12 Thread Brian

On Tue 11 Nov 2014 at 23:18:56 -0500, The Wanderer wrote:

 On 11/11/2014 at 01:51 PM, Brian wrote:
 
  On Tue 11 Nov 2014 at 12:58:25 -0500, Miles Fidelman wrote:
  
  Brian wrote:
  
  Everyone gets it. Not everyone boots with it. Not everyone who
  boots first time with it gets to use it on subsequent boots.
  
  That is DEFINITELY a definition of default that is subject to
  very differing opinions.
  
  Everyone gets systemd. This a a fact, not an opinion.
  
  Everyone can alter what they first boot with. This is a fact, not an
  opinion,
  
  Everyone can change the init system after first boot. This is a fact,
  not an opinion,
  
  And there is a very distinct difference between installed by
  default and enabled by default.
  
  There may be. But, everyone gets systemd. (Please see above).
 
 And while all of these things are true TTBOMK, none of them are related
 to the thing I was responding to, which is your unqualified statement
 that these things are what the statement systemd is the default init
 system means.
 
 systemd being the default init system can/could mean many different
 things.
 
 One of those things would mean that all of the things you say must
 necessarily be true. That possible meaning is embodied in the current
 implementation of the package dependencies and of debian-installer.
 
 There are other possible meanings which would not mean that. From the
 perspective of such a meaning, the current debian-installer
 implementation is incorrect, and therefore buggy.
 
 
 The entire reason I responded in the first place is that you were making
 an unqualified statement about the meaning of the phrase the default
 init system, without supporting that statement with arguments or
 evidence, when the question of the meaning of that phrase is - at some
 important level - the very thing which is under dispute.
 
 That sort of implicit assumption is not conducive to good argument, or
 to fostering even the possibility of understanding and agreement between
 the sides of a disagreement.

The reality is that d-i in jessie installs systemd. I labelled this
reality with the phrase default init system. I could change to using
another phrase but it will not alter the reality.

The phrase default init system may be attached to other, different
realities but, in the context of addressing the OP's question, I have
little desire to explore them.


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Re: Installing an Alternative Init?

Le mercredi, 12 novembre 2014, 10.33:20 Tanstaafl a écrit :
 On 11/12/2014 10:13 AM, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud o...@debian.org wrote:
  Le mercredi, 12 novembre 2014, 09.11:40 Tanstaafl a écrit :
  Which is precisely *why* (people) should have been required to fix
  that bug (…)
  
  This is simply not how Debian works.
 
 If Debian works in such a way that the Tech Committee can *dictate* a
 major change to what is agreed upon by most as a critical piece of the
 operating system (in this case the init system) - especially one that
 has gone unchanged for as long as anyone can remember - then I submit
 to you that indeed they *can* require that as a part of such a
 change, certain minimal requirements be met.

The Tech Committee has exercised its power to decide in cases of 
overlapping jurisdiction, because it was asked to do so by a fellow 
Developer; they were asked to break a tie, which is vastly different 
from 'dictating' a major change.

Them requiring certain minimal requirements would have been quite 
unusual in Debian procedures, but would certainly have been possible. 
The Tech Committee simply didn't decide to do so.

As I wrote already, you might disagree with their decision or the way it 
was taken. So far, the decision hasn't been challenged by a GR; none has 
been proposed or gathered enough seconds.

Can we move on to solving practical problems rather than exploring 
theories? Thanks in advance,
OdyX


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Re: Installing an Alternative Init?

2014-11-12 Thread golinux

On Wed, 11/12/14, Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org wrote:

Subject: Re: Installing an Alternative Init?
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Date: Wednesday, November 12, 2014, 5:10 AM

On 11/11/2014 3:33 PM, Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net 
wrote:
Actually, there's a patch (thank you Kenshi).  It has not been 
applied.

Hence, to use it right now, one has to build a custom version of the
installer.  I hope, that post the initial Jessie release, the 
deboostrap

and installer maintainers will apply the patch.

Since the bug is so old (dates back to wheezy), and a patch exists and
still hasn't been applied, I think it is likely that they simply don't
*want* to fix this bug, since that would negatively impact the desire 
to

get as many people using systemd as possible, so they can be counted in
the stats of 'satisfied systemd users', even if many/most don't even
*know* they're running a different init system.

Exactly.  When your intent is (Linux) world domination, principles like 
choice and transparency become very inconvenient. The Mintard droolers 
won't even notice but I can certainly feel the noose tightening . . .

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Re: Installing an Alternative Init?

2014-11-12 Thread The Wanderer

On 11/12/2014 at 10:43 AM, Brian wrote:

 On Tue 11 Nov 2014 at 23:18:56 -0500, The Wanderer wrote:

 systemd being the default init system can/could mean many
 different things.
 
 One of those things would mean that all of the things you say must
 necessarily be true. That possible meaning is embodied in the
 current implementation of the package dependencies and of
 debian-installer.
 
 There are other possible meanings which would not mean that. From
 the perspective of such a meaning, the current debian-installer
 implementation is incorrect, and therefore buggy.
 
 
 The entire reason I responded in the first place is that you were
 making an unqualified statement about the meaning of the phrase
 the default init system, without supporting that statement with
 arguments or evidence, when the question of the meaning of that
 phrase is - at some important level - the very thing which is under
 dispute.
 
 That sort of implicit assumption is not conducive to good argument,
 or to fostering even the possibility of understanding and agreement
 between the sides of a disagreement.
 
 The reality is that d-i in jessie installs systemd. I labelled this
 reality with the phrase default init system. I could change to
 using another phrase but it will not alter the reality.

Your original statement was that systemd is the default init system.
That means everyone gets it.

I understood that statement as meaning the reason why d-i in jessie
installs systemd-sysv unconditionally is because systemd is the default
init system.

I was trying to point out that systemd being the default init system
does not automatically imply that d-i must necessarily install
systemd-sysv unconditionally. It could, for example, only mean that d-i
must install systemd-sysv unless some configuration setting is in place
to tell it to do otherwise. This would be a weaker sense of default,
but still an entirely valid one.

If you assume that because X, therefore Y, when the discussion at hand
is specifically based on the fact that other people believe X does not
necessarily mean Y, then there is very little chance of anything
productive or conclusive (or even persuasive) being said - at least in
your part of the discussion. I think that would be unfortunate, and that
is why I felt it worth posting in this thread to begin with.

-- 
   The Wanderer

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one
persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all
progress depends on the unreasonable man. -- George Bernard Shaw



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HowTo Fork Debian? At first, just for fun... Plus a new home for kFreeBSD!

2014-11-12 Thread Martinx - ジェームズ

Guys,

I think that is time to start working on a `Debian Fork`.

Just for the record, I'm using `Debian` since `Potato` and I am very
unhappy with this `systemd-fiasco`. `Debian` with `systemd` is NOT
`Debian` anymore, it is another thing, completely different.

It is time to take it back, to make `Debian` fun again!


This new fork will:

1- ...be `systemd-free` (not even its sources will be included, maybe
only `systemd-udev`, _at first_);

2- ...have some level of `systemd-compatibility` (with `uselessd`),
so, it will be easier to sync from Debian and keep it up to date,
without requiring to maintain `sysvinit-core` too;

3- ...have a metapackage called `udev`, and packages like `eudev`,
`mdev` will be available (just like meta-`init` and `sysvinit-core`,
`upstart`...);

4- ...be the new home for `Debian kFreeBSD`, probably integrated `uselessd`;

5- ...kick `Debian Constitution`.


So, how to do it? Where to start? At first, just the initial fork,
recompilation and new ISO CDs, `as-is`. Just like `Canonical` does
when they start working on a new version of `Ubuntu` (i.e, its Debian
sync procedure).

In the past, I remastered `Debian ISO CD` with my own `preseed`, it is
easy. I know how to do this. Also, I know how to make my own APT
Mirror, with that remastered CD pointing to it on its `sources.list`.
Basically, a binary fork.

Now, I would like to build the complete infrastructure to fork
`Debian` from its sources, compiles each package and build the APT
repository from it (and ISO CDs).

Where should I start? Lets document this step-by-step?!

BTW, I'm the author of `Xen LiveCD v2.0`, which is a Debian built with
`live-helper`. Plus, I can write good docs, like this:
https://github.com/tmartinx/openstack-guides

I have free hosting facilities and lots of servers to make this a reality.

Cheers!
Thiago


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Re: Installing an Alternative Init?

On 11/12/2014 10:40 AM, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud o...@debian.org wrote:
 I can't insist enough on this: the Debian procedures have been correctly 
 followed; the TC took a decision which could be challenged by a simple 
 majority GR [0]. This GR has never been called by anyone with voting 
 rights, or hasn't gathered enough seconds to get to a vote. The TC 
 decision stays in force as a decision to have systemd as default init 
 system for jessie.

Which sounds like it could be things like this in the Debian
Constitution that Joey had problems with...

Yes, the procedures may have been correctly followed... but apparently
it took something as major as forcing a major change (init system) to
reveal the flaws in the procedures.


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Re: HowTo Fork Debian? At first, just for fun... Plus a new home for kFreeBSD!

2014-11-12 Thread Tony van der Hoff

On 12/11/14 16:11, Martinx - ジェームズ wrote:
 Guys,
 
 I think that is time to start working on a `Debian Fork`.
 
snip

 I have free hosting facilities and lots of servers to make this a reality.

Good! Now you can set up your own mailing list, and stop bothering
debian-user. And all your pals, of like mind, can also decamp!

Bye!

-- 
Tony van der Hoff| mailto:t...@vanderhoff.org
Buckinghamshire, England |


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FWD: CVE-request: systemd-resolved DNS cache poisoning

2014-11-12 Thread Martinx - ジェームズ

Guys,

This worth to be read:

http://seclists.org/oss-sec/2014/q4/592

Best,
Thiago


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Re: HowTo Fork Debian? At first, just for fun... Plus a new home for kFreeBSD!

2014-11-12 Thread Martinx - ジェームズ

On 12 November 2014 14:27, Tony van der Hoff t...@vanderhoff.org wrote:
 On 12/11/14 16:11, Martinx - ジェームズ wrote:
 Guys,

 I think that is time to start working on a `Debian Fork`.

 snip

 I have free hosting facilities and lots of servers to make this a reality.

 Good! Now you can set up your own mailing list, and stop bothering
 debian-user. And all your pals, of like mind, can also decamp!

 Bye!

 --
 Tony van der Hoff| mailto:t...@vanderhoff.org
 Buckinghamshire, England |

I don't understand Tony, a Debian fork _is_ about Debian. Since it is
still the `upstream` provider, for its forks. It is all about Debian.

I'm sorry but, I can not stop talking about Debian on Debian lists.

This (Debian stability and future) matters too much for me, and right
now, the only thing that I can do, is `talk`. So, please, stop trying
to take even this away from me (us).

Best,
Thiago


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Re: [OT] Unfortunate sig (was ... Re: Joey Hess is out?)

2014-11-12 Thread Curt

On 2014-11-12, Chris Bannister cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz wrote:

 ROFLMAO, what danger can he possibly cause at his age! wiping coffee
 off keyboard


He's so old he's dead. 


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Re: HowTo Fork Debian? At first, just for fun... Plus a new home for kFreeBSD!

2014-11-12 Thread Tony van der Hoff

On 12/11/14 16:46, Martinx - ジェームズ wrote:
 On 12 November 2014 14:27, Tony van der Hoff t...@vanderhoff.org wrote:
 On 12/11/14 16:11, Martinx - ジェームズ wrote:
 Guys,

 I think that is time to start working on a `Debian Fork`.

 snip

 I have free hosting facilities and lots of servers to make this a reality.

 Good! Now you can set up your own mailing list, and stop bothering
 debian-user. And all your pals, of like mind, can also decamp!

 Bye!

 --
 Tony van der Hoff| mailto:t...@vanderhoff.org
 Buckinghamshire, England |
 
 I don't understand Tony, a Debian fork _is_ about Debian. Since it is
 still the `upstream` provider, for its forks. It is all about Debian.
 
 I'm sorry but, I can not stop talking about Debian on Debian lists.
 
You cannot stop talking. It's boring to those of us who have no problem
with the way Debian is developing.

 This (Debian stability and future) matters too much for me, and right
 now, the only thing that I can do, is `talk`. So, please, stop trying
 to take even this away from me (us).
 
Talk, as much as you like on your own list. That's what you want, isn't it?


-- 
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Buckinghamshire, England |


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how to install amd64 instead i386

2014-11-12 Thread Abdelkader Belahcene

Hi everybody,

I install  solydx (debian based ) Amd64.
I have a local mirror ( for amd64)  it works fine on one machine (pure
debian)

On solydx64,
when I tried apt-get update, it worked correctly fine  from  remote
repositoryserver,  but it  searched  for i386 in from local repository .
  here is  my source file  and errors

cat /etc/apt/sources.list
deb http://home.solydxk.com/production solydxk main upstream import
 deb http://debian.solydxk.com/production testing main contrib non-free
 deb http://debian.solydxk.com/security testing/updates main contrib
non-free
deb http://community.solydxk.com/production solydxk main
deb file:/disk/ftp.fr.debian.org/debian jessie main contrib non-free

error:

# apt-get update
Réception de : 1 file: jessie InRelease [191 kB]
Err file: jessie/main i386 Packages
  Fichier non trouvé   ---means  File not found
Err file: jessie/contrib i386 Packages
  Fichier non trouvé
Err file: jessie/non-free i386 Packages
  Fichier non trouvé
W: Impossible de récupérer file:/disk/
ftp.fr.debian.org/debian/dists/jessie/main/binary-i386/Packages
 Fichier non trouvé     means  file not found

YES SURE not found   since I HAVE :

# ls /disk/ftp.fr.debian.org/debian/dists/jessie/main/binary-amd64/
Packages  Packages.gz  Packages.xz  Release

Why it searched for binary-i386/Packages



Thanks for help
best regards

Re: how to install amd64 instead i386

2014-11-12 Thread Darac Marjal

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 05:56:06PM +0100, Abdelkader Belahcene wrote:
Hi everybody,
 
I install  solydx (debian based ) Amd64.
I have a local mirror ( for amd64)  it works fine on one machine (pure
debian)
 
On solydx64,
when I tried apt-get update, it worked correctly fine  from  remote
repositoryserver,  but it  searched  for i386 in from local repository .  
  here is  my source file  and errors
 
cat /etc/apt/sources.list
deb [1]http://home.solydxk.com/production solydxk main upstream import
 deb [2]http://debian.solydxk.com/production testing main contrib non-free
 deb [3]http://debian.solydxk.com/security testing/updates main contrib
non-free
deb [4]http://community.solydxk.com/production solydxk main
deb file:/disk/[5]ftp.fr.debian.org/debian jessie main contrib non-free
 
error:
 
# apt-get update
Réception de : 1 file: jessie InRelease [191 kB]
Err file: jessie/main i386 Packages
  Fichier non trouvé   ---    means  File not found

Try LANG=C apt-get update for non-localised messages

Err file: jessie/contrib i386 Packages
  Fichier non trouvé
Err file: jessie/non-free i386 Packages
  Fichier non trouvé
W: Impossible de récupérer

 file:/disk/[6]ftp.fr.debian.org/debian/dists/jessie/main/binary-i386/Packages
 Fichier non trouvé     means      file not found 
 
YES SURE not found   since I HAVE :
# ls /disk/[7]ftp.fr.debian.org/debian/dists/jessie/main/binary-amd64/
Packages  Packages.gz  Packages.xz  Release
 
Why it searched for binary-i386/Packages

dpkg --print-architecture
dpkg --print-foreign-architectures

The former states dpkg's primary architecture, the latter lists other
architectures that your system can ALSO execute.

 
Thanks for help
best regards
 
 References
 
Visible links
1. http://home.solydxk.com/production
2. http://debian.solydxk.com/production
3. http://debian.solydxk.com/security
4. http://community.solydxk.com/production
5. http://ftp.fr.debian.org/debian
6. http://ftp.fr.debian.org/debian/dists/jessie/main/binary-i386/Packages
7. http://ftp.fr.debian.org/debian/dists/jessie/main/binary-amd64/


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Re: HowTo Fork Debian? At first, just for fun... Plus a new home for kFreeBSD!


Tony van der Hoff wrote:

On 12/11/14 16:46, Martinx - ジェームズ wrote:

On 12 November 2014 14:27, Tony van der Hoff t...@vanderhoff.org wrote:

On 12/11/14 16:11, Martinx - ジェームズ wrote:

Guys,

I think that is time to start working on a `Debian Fork`.


snip


I have free hosting facilities and lots of servers to make this a reality.

Good! Now you can set up your own mailing list, and stop bothering
debian-user. And all your pals, of like mind, can also decamp!

Bye!

--
Tony van der Hoff| mailto:t...@vanderhoff.org
Buckinghamshire, England |

I don't understand Tony, a Debian fork _is_ about Debian. Since it is
still the `upstream` provider, for its forks. It is all about Debian.

I'm sorry but, I can not stop talking about Debian on Debian lists.


You cannot stop talking. It's boring to those of us who have no problem
with the way Debian is developing.


This list is for than what interests you alone.  If you find a topic 
boring, then ignore it, rather than polluting the airwaves with your 
disinterest.  That's what subject lines, delete keys, and kill files are 
for.  Telling others to shut up because you're bored is inappropriate 
and obnoxious.



This (Debian stability and future) matters too much for me, and right
now, the only thing that I can do, is `talk`. So, please, stop trying
to take even this away from me (us).


Talk, as much as you like on your own list. That's what you want, isn't it?



I, for one, as a long-time Debian user, am interested to know about new 
developments in the Debian ecosystem - such as forks, derivatives, and 
so forth.  I am NOT BORED, and want to hear more.


Miles Fidelman



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Re: FWD: CVE-request: systemd-resolved DNS cache poisoning

2014-11-12 Thread Reco

 Hi.

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 02:22:06PM -0200, Martinx - ジェームズ wrote:
 Guys,
 
 This worth to be read:
 
 http://seclists.org/oss-sec/2014/q4/592


The link says:

systemd-resolved contains a caching resolver, which has to be enabled
via /etc/nsswitch.conf in order to be integrated.


So, disable offending DNS cache (if it's enabled), install conventional
nscd, problem solved.

And, according to CVE database, that's eighth vulnerability in systemd
suite. Not that much given systemd's lifetime.

http://cve.mitre.org/cgi-bin/cvekey.cgi?keyword=systemd

Reco


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Re: Installing an Alternative Init?


Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:

Le mercredi, 12 novembre 2014, 10.17:54 Miles Fidelman a écrit :

Didier 'OdyX' Raboud wrote:

Le mercredi, 12 novembre 2014, 09.11:40 Tanstaafl a écrit :

Which is precisely *why* (people) should have been required to fix
that bug (…)

This is simply not how Debian works.

You mean a bug can't be marked as release critical?

I mean that people cannot be required to fix bugs.

Furthermore, the people in the Release Team have the final word (modulo
GR override) on what they consider release critical. This definition
happens to currently match the policy severity definition, but isn't
necessarily so; in particular, they've used their 'wheezy-ignore' tags
during the last freeze for bugs that had a particular severity but that
they didn't consider release-critical.

I can't insist enough on this: the Debian procedures have been correctly
followed; the TC took a decision which could be challenged by a simple
majority GR [0]. This GR has never been called by anyone with voting
rights, or hasn't gathered enough seconds to get to a vote. The TC
decision stays in force as a decision to have systemd as default init
system for jessie.

You might very well be unhappy with this situation, the way the decision
was taken, the way it wasn't challenged by the DDs, the fact that no
conditions were posed to systemd maintainers, or anything else, that's
totally fine. Please just be aware that repeating your unhappiness ad
nauseam will not change that fact.



Yes, I am unhappy with the situation, as apparently are a 
not-insignificant number of other Debian users.  One could hope that 
feedback might have some effect in influencing future decisions. That it 
has not, or if anything rigidified the Direction of Debian, is in 
itself, rather useful information when it comes to making plans for 
future use of Debian.  (As someone else said - hope that LFS extends 
Wheezy's lifetime.  And in parallel, start looking for a new distro, 
platform and maybe working on derivative or fork.)


It is also quite useful to identify others who are similarly unhappy, so 
that we may exchange knowledge about how to move forward with pursuing 
alternatives.


Miles Fidelman




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Re: Installing an Alternative Init?


The Wanderer wrote:

On 11/12/2014 at 10:43 AM, Brian wrote:


On Tue 11 Nov 2014 at 23:18:56 -0500, The Wanderer wrote:

systemd being the default init system can/could mean many
different things.

One of those things would mean that all of the things you say must
necessarily be true. That possible meaning is embodied in the
current implementation of the package dependencies and of
debian-installer.

There are other possible meanings which would not mean that. From
the perspective of such a meaning, the current debian-installer
implementation is incorrect, and therefore buggy.


The entire reason I responded in the first place is that you were
making an unqualified statement about the meaning of the phrase
the default init system, without supporting that statement with
arguments or evidence, when the question of the meaning of that
phrase is - at some important level - the very thing which is under
dispute.

That sort of implicit assumption is not conducive to good argument,
or to fostering even the possibility of understanding and agreement
between the sides of a disagreement.

The reality is that d-i in jessie installs systemd. I labelled this
reality with the phrase default init system. I could change to
using another phrase but it will not alter the reality.

Your original statement was that systemd is the default init system.
That means everyone gets it.

I understood that statement as meaning the reason why d-i in jessie
installs systemd-sysv unconditionally is because systemd is the default
init system.

I was trying to point out that systemd being the default init system
does not automatically imply that d-i must necessarily install
systemd-sysv unconditionally. It could, for example, only mean that d-i
must install systemd-sysv unless some configuration setting is in place
to tell it to do otherwise. This would be a weaker sense of default,
but still an entirely valid one.


And, in fact, the d-i provides for installing alternatives to the 
default init system.  It's just that a long-standing bug, in another 
package (deboostrap) prevents d-i from doing so as advertised.




If you assume that because X, therefore Y, when the discussion at hand
is specifically based on the fact that other people believe X does not
necessarily mean Y, then there is very little chance of anything
productive or conclusive (or even persuasive) being said - at least in
your part of the discussion. I think that would be unfortunate, and that
is why I felt it worth posting in this thread to begin with.

Or of actually getting to a point where the d-i can install alternative 
init systems, as advertised.


Miles Fidelman


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Re: FWD: CVE-request: systemd-resolved DNS cache poisoning

2014-11-12 Thread Dimitrios Chr. Ioannidis


On 12-11-2014 18:22, Martinx - ジェームズ wrote:

Guys,

This worth to be read:

http://seclists.org/oss-sec/2014/q4/592

Best,
Thiago



IMHO, the answer is more interesting .

QUOTE :

BIND 9 is supposed to filter such garbage from upstream answers, but 
there are other resolvers out there which will pass through such answers 
unchanged, so this is very much CVE-worthy.



(This systemd component is optional, I strongly recommend not to ship 
it. It's not even possible right now to dump the cache contents to debug 
such issues.)



--
Florian Weimer / Red Hat Product Security


Regards,
--
Dimitrios Chr. Ioannidis


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Installing from Backports (Was: INTEL HD Graphics)

2014-11-12 Thread Cindy-Sue Causey

On 11/12/14, Christian Seiler christ...@iwakd.de wrote:

However, in wheezy-backports there are some updated drivers that will
*probably* work with your graphics card, but I haven't tested it.

So basically, you could try to

1. Activate backports
http://backports.debian.org/Instructions/
2. apt-get update
3. apt-get -t wheezy-backports install [desired package]

(Disclaimer: Untested.)

Thank you, Christian! You just short tracked something on my to-do
list, and that was to research how to test drive this occasionally
mentioned backports.. Plucking your comment out of the stream for
others, for primarily new users for whom this might save some
headaches pretty quick...

Or as the disclaimer implies... possibly *not* :)

That handy, cognitively friendly link again:

http://backports.debian.org/Instructions/

If anyone has any negative feedback regarding backports, please do
share, most particularly if you have helpful workarounds that
corrected whatever issue you ran into...

On a side note and intended as another tip for newcomers here: I
almost messed up just now.. I started to start a new thread by simply
replying to Christian's comment then changing the subject line.. In
highly technical circles, that's a #FAIL. Email clients (software)
often just treat that as a continuation of the old thread.
Translation: That's a good way to get grumbled at on occasion.. The
quick fix there is to start a completely new email then copy-paste
from the old one if needed to begin your new thread.. :)

Happy Debian'ing out there! :)

Cindy

--
Cindy-Sue Causey
Talking Rock, Pickens County, Georgia, USA

* runs with bird seed (trips occasionally, too) *

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Re: systemd - so much energy wasted in quarreling

2014-11-12 Thread Andre N Batista

On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 06:23:26PM +0100, Laurent Bigonville wrote:
 Le Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:58:33 -0500,
 Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org a écrit :
 
  On 11/11/2014 9:26 AM, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud o...@debian.org wrote:
   Blaming the Debian project for letting the Debian distribution
   evolve in ways defined by its volunteers is unfair.
  
  Eh? My understanding is that this systemd mess is due to a vote of the
  technical committee, a vote that was in fact tied and the chair had to
  cast the tie-breaker.
  
  Hardly waht I would call an 'evolution defined by its volunteers'...
 
 The members of the project have delegated the power to arbitrate
 technical decisions to the the technical committee via the
 constitution. Some people might not agree with this, but this how the
 project is working today.

And that power which was delegated can be reclaimed anytime by it's true
and legitimate owner if, for some reason - say the TC reached a decision
with a Minerva vote by Project Leader and that decision has proven over
the time to be highly controversial among debian users and developers -,
he feels the need to do so.

As far as debian is related to software, very question can be expressed
as a technical one. As far as it is a project commited to some political
goals, some technical decisions can hinder, others can further project's
goals.

Nobody is claiming that the TC shouldn't be allowed to decide on technical
issues, but there are people who seem to think that this is equal to
TC's decisions being final, undebatable and impossible to overrule. If
this is true, however, we cannot claim that TC's power is delegated, we
need to recognize that it is an unlimited de facto power.


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Re: Installing an Alternative Init?

2014-11-12 Thread Ron

On Wed, 12 Nov 2014 12:14:34 -0500
Miles Fidelman mfidel...@meetinghouse.net wrote:

 One could hope that feedback might have some effect in influencing future 
 decisions. That it has not, or if anything rigidified the Direction of 
 Debian, is in itself, rather useful information when it comes to making plans 
 for future use of Debian.  

Reminds one of a number of case studies in Norman F Dixon's On The Psychology 
Of Military Incompetence.
 
Cheers,
 
Ron.
-- 
   Intolerance is itself a form of violence
  and an obstacle to the growth of a true democratic spirit.
   -- Mahatma Gandhi

   -- http://www.olgiati-in-paraguay.org --
 


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Re: Installing from Backports

2014-11-12 Thread Christian Seiler


Am 2014-11-12 18:23, schrieb Cindy-Sue Causey:

On 11/12/14, Christian Seiler christ...@iwakd.de wrote:


However, in wheezy-backports there are some updated drivers that 
will

*probably* work with your graphics card, but I haven't tested it.

So basically, you could try to

  1. Activate backports
 http://backports.debian.org/Instructions/
  2. apt-get update
  3. apt-get -t wheezy-backports install [desired package]

(Disclaimer: Untested.)



Thank you, Christian! You just short tracked something on my to-do
list, and that was to research how to test drive this occasionally
mentioned backports.. Plucking your comment out of the stream for
others, for primarily new users for whom this might save some
headaches pretty quick...

Or as the disclaimer implies... possibly *not* :)


Just for clarity: the 'untested' refered to the specific package I was
talking about, not how to activate backports. ;-)


If anyone has any negative feedback regarding backports, please do
share, most particularly if you have helpful workarounds that
corrected whatever issue you ran into...


The only 'problem' I remember is that sometimes it takes a while for
updates to actually go on to backports; per backports policy usually
the packages have to be in testing already before the backported ones
can be uploaded, which means there will be an additional delay until
fixes are in there.

That said, for critical security fixes, I had the impression that
package maintainers were doing a really good job for getting them into
wheezy-backports in the last few months, at least for the packages I am
using. So consider this to be a HUGE thank you to everyone involved in
that!

Christian


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Re: Installing an Alternative Init?

2014-11-12 Thread Brian

On Wed 12 Nov 2014 at 10:56:27 -0500, The Wanderer wrote:

 On 11/12/2014 at 10:43 AM, Brian wrote:
 
  The reality is that d-i in jessie installs systemd. I labelled this
  reality with the phrase default init system. I could change to
  using another phrase but it will not alter the reality.
 
 Your original statement was that systemd is the default init system.
 That means everyone gets it.
 
 I understood that statement as meaning the reason why d-i in jessie
 installs systemd-sysv unconditionally is because systemd is the default
 init system.

Ok.
 
 I was trying to point out that systemd being the default init system
 does not automatically imply that d-i must necessarily install
 systemd-sysv unconditionally. It could, for example, only mean that d-i
 must install systemd-sysv unless some configuration setting is in place
 to tell it to do otherwise. This would be a weaker sense of default,
 but still an entirely valid one.

Ok. But that wasn't under discussion.
 
 If you assume that because X, therefore Y, when the discussion at hand
 is specifically based on the fact that other people believe X does not
 necessarily mean Y, then there is very little chance of anything
 productive or conclusive (or even persuasive) being said - at least in
 your part of the discussion. I think that would be unfortunate, and that
 is why I felt it worth posting in this thread to begin with.

The mail I responded to talked about a *clean* install and queried why
one init system had to unstalled before another one was put it. There
was no mention of X does not necessarily mean Y or of a configuration
setting so there was nothing to discuss here.

I'll alter my original statement to Everyone gets systemd and let the
rest stand. I may limit my use of the word default in future; but no
promises. :)


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Re: Gigabyte BRIX with (Debian) Linux

2014-11-12 Thread Robert Wall

Catalin,

I have this one: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16856164017

I'm running Debian Stable on it. I needed to install an updated kernel
from http://backports.debian.org/ to get ACPI working properly, and
it'll only boot if there's a monitor connected (over VGA in my case; I
don't have an HDMI monitor to check if that suffices). Apart from
that, it works fine and I've recommended the device to others.

(Disclaimer: I have not used WiFi or Bluetooth on it as I have no use
for them, so YMMV.)

Robert

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 7:19 AM, Catalin Soare lolinux.so...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi everyone,

 I am thinking of buying one of these devices, and I was wondering if someone
 on the list has been successful in installing Debian on any BRIX device, and
 if they could share impressions.

 Here is one that I have in mind:

 http://www.bestbuy.com/site/gigabyte-brix-desktop-computer/1309084555.p?id=mp1309084555skuId=1309084555

 Thanks for any input


 --
 Regards,
 Catalin Soare



-- 
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Re: systemd - so much energy wasted in quarreling

2014-11-12 Thread Laurent Bigonville

Le Wed, 12 Nov 2014 15:29:27 -0200,
Andre N Batista andrenbati...@gmail.com a écrit :

 On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 06:23:26PM +0100, Laurent Bigonville wrote:
  Le Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:58:33 -0500,
  Tanstaafl tansta...@libertytrek.org a écrit :
  
   On 11/11/2014 9:26 AM, Didier 'OdyX' Raboud o...@debian.org
   wrote:
Blaming the Debian project for letting the Debian distribution
evolve in ways defined by its volunteers is unfair.
   
   Eh? My understanding is that this systemd mess is due to a vote
   of the technical committee, a vote that was in fact tied and the
   chair had to cast the tie-breaker.
   
   Hardly waht I would call an 'evolution defined by its
   volunteers'...
  
  The members of the project have delegated the power to arbitrate
  technical decisions to the the technical committee via the
  constitution. Some people might not agree with this, but this how
  the project is working today.
 
 And that power which was delegated can be reclaimed anytime by it's
 true and legitimate owner if, for some reason - say the TC reached a
 decision with a Minerva vote by Project Leader and that decision has
 proven over the time to be highly controversial among debian users
 and developers -, he feels the need to do so.
 
 As far as debian is related to software, very question can be
 expressed as a technical one. As far as it is a project commited to
 some political goals, some technical decisions can hinder, others can
 further project's goals.
 
 Nobody is claiming that the TC shouldn't be allowed to decide on
 technical issues, but there are people who seem to think that this is
 equal to TC's decisions being final, undebatable and impossible to
 overrule. If this is true, however, we cannot claim that TC's power
 is delegated, we need to recognize that it is an unlimited de facto
 power.

The TC decisions can be overruled by a GR with a simple majority, see
the point 4.1.4 of the Constitution[0]

[0] https://www.debian.org/devel/constitution#item-4


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VPN routing on Sid

2014-11-12 Thread Luis Finotti

I'm having problems connecting to my desktop (running actually
aptosid, which is virtually simply Debian Sid with a different kernel
and a few extra tools and customizations).

Here is the situation: my desktop is connected to a VPN service. (The
router to which the desktop is connected is not, only the desktop.
So, the VPN client runs on the desktop and the other computers on the
network connect to the Internet directly.)

When I first started using the VPN service, I could not SSH to my
desktop from outside the network anymore. After a lot of googling, I
found out a solution (https://forums.openvpn.net/topic7163-15.htm):
I've added the following script to /etc/network/if-up.d:

--
!/bin/bash

ip rule add from 192.168.29.120 table 10
ip route add default via 192.168.29.1 table 10

where 192.168.29.120 is the IP of the desktop and 192.168.29.1 is the
IP of the router.

That worked perfectly and until recently. (I'm sorry I cannot be more
precise about when, but I'd say within the last 30 days or so it
stopped working.) I could connect to the desktop from anywhere. But
recently, when I run the script above (as I've been doing for a
while), I can still connect from *outside* my network, but *not* from
inside (i.e., other computers connected to the same router). From
within the network, nothing works (SSH, Samba, minidlna...). As soon
as remove the rules (with ip rule/route del ...), I can connect
again from inside (but, of course, not from outside anymore).

I'd appreciate any comments or suggestions. (The desktop is up to
date with Sid repositories, by the way.)

Thanks,

Luis

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Re: Nvidia MCP51 Ethernet controller, link is not ready

2014-11-12 Thread Hans

Am Mittwoch, 12. November 2014, 12:09:22 schrieb Achim Spreen:
 Hello.
 I have a desktop PC with AMD Sempron, a Nvidia MCP51 (on board)
 Ethernet controller, Debian 7.6-amd64, Lxde and this problems with eth0:
 eth0 is not up after bootup, not at irq 21 or other irq, Speed: Unknown,
 Duplex: Unknown, Link detected: no
 The cable is o.k. and connected.
 
 # /etc/network/interfaces:
 ...
 auto eth0
 iface eth0 inet dhcp
 ---

Hi Achim!

Is the device not available at all or dop you hvae some other device like 
eth1 (instead of eth0)?

Best

Hans


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test message

2014-11-12 Thread Joel Roth

greetings

-- 
Joel Roth
  


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Re: test message

2014-11-12 Thread Matt A

Hello.
 On Nov 12, 2014 2:55 PM, Joel Roth jo...@pobox.com wrote:

 greetings

 --
 Joel Roth



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Shared libraries not found during build

2014-11-12 Thread Joel Roth


Hi list,



I'm running sid. For the first time in many months, I'm
trying to build a package from source. After compiling I'm
getting library-not-found errors, for example: 

apt-get source ntfs-3g

debuild -b -uc -us

Which eventually triggers a library not found error:

make[1]: Entering directory '/home/jroth/build/ntfs-3g-2014.2.15AR.2'
dh_makeshlibs --add-udeb=ntfs-3g-udeb -Vlibntfs-3g852
make[1]: Leaving directory '/home/jroth/build/ntfs-3g-2014.2.15AR.2'
   dh_shlibdeps -O--parallel
dpkg-shlibdeps: error: couldn't find library libntfs-3g.so.852 needed by 
debian/ntfs-3g/bin/ntfscmp (ELF format: 'elf64-x86-64'; RPATH: '')
dpkg-shlibdeps: error: couldn't find library libc.so.6 needed by 
debian/ntfs-3g/bin/ntfscmp (ELF format: 'elf64-x86-64'; RPATH: '')

and ends with this message:

dpkg-shlibdeps: error: cannot continue due to the errors listed above
Note: libraries are not searched in other binary packages that do not have any 
shlibs or symbols file.
To help dpkg-shlibdeps find private libraries, you might need to use -l.

The full output is here: http://paste.debian.net/131197/

Any ideas what could be wrong with my build environment?

Kind regards,


--
Joel Roth


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Re: Installing an Alternative Init?

2014-11-12 Thread Brian

On Wed 12 Nov 2014 at 06:27:56 -0500, Tanstaafl wrote:

 On 11/11/2014 2:16 PM, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote:
  New users do not need to be be aware of all the background to the
  choosing of a default init. No advertisement is needed. By definition,
  they do not care. They want Debian. Please let them have it.
 
 Wow... what arrogance...

Sorry to shock you. A cup of tea works wonders in such situations.
 
 That is tantamount to treating the debian userbase as lost little
 children who need to have all of the important decisions made for them.

Sounds like, doesn't it? Let's be practical and see how how a screen in
d-i could present an init system choice to a user, particularly having a
new user in mind.

Here is my first suggestion:

   You are about to install an init system. Please choose

1. Systemd
2. Sysvinit
3. Upstart
4. A. N. Other

1, 2, 3, 4?

Feel free to criticise and improve on it.


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Re: [OT] Unfortunate sig (was ... Re: Joey Hess is out?)

2014-11-12 Thread Bret Busby

On 13/11/2014, Curt cu...@free.fr wrote:
 On 2014-11-12, Chris Bannister cbannis...@slingshot.co.nz wrote:

 ROFLMAO, what danger can he possibly cause at his age! wiping coffee
 off keyboard


 He's so old he's dead.


That may be so, but, as with Seneca and many others, his work still lives on.


-- 
Bret Busby
Armadale
West Australia
..

So once you do know what the question actually is,
 you'll know what the answer means.
- Deep Thought,
 Chapter 28 of Book 1 of
 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy:
 A Trilogy In Four Parts,
 written by Douglas Adams,
 published by Pan Books, 1992




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Re: Installing an Alternative Init?

2014-11-12 Thread Stephan Seitz


On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 08:10:42PM +, Brian wrote:

Sounds like, doesn't it? Let's be practical and see how how a screen in
d-i could present an init system choice to a user, particularly having a
new user in mind.


Well, like the question about bootloaders the init system choice should 
only be available in the expert installation process. So I doubt you will 
need to teach the difference to a newbie.



Here is my first suggestion:

  You are about to install an init system. Please choose

   The preselected choice is systemd. ^^


1. Systemd
2. Sysvinit
3. Upstart
4. A. N. Other

1, 2, 3, 4?


Sounds good. We can discuss the order, but it is the right direction. The 
question should come before the „Install the base system” part.


Shade and sweet water!

Stephan

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Re: Shared libraries not found during build

2014-11-12 Thread Sven Joachim

On 2014-11-12 21:08 +0100, Joel Roth wrote:

 I'm running sid. For the first time in many months, I'm
 trying to build a package from source. After compiling I'm
 getting library-not-found errors, for example: 

 apt-get source ntfs-3g

 debuild -b -uc -us

 Which eventually triggers a library not found error:

 make[1]: Entering directory '/home/jroth/build/ntfs-3g-2014.2.15AR.2'
 dh_makeshlibs --add-udeb=ntfs-3g-udeb -Vlibntfs-3g852
 make[1]: Leaving directory '/home/jroth/build/ntfs-3g-2014.2.15AR.2'
dh_shlibdeps -O--parallel
 dpkg-shlibdeps: error: couldn't find library libntfs-3g.so.852 needed
 by debian/ntfs-3g/bin/ntfscmp (ELF format: 'elf64-x86-64'; RPATH: '')
 dpkg-shlibdeps: error: couldn't find library libc.so.6 needed by
 debian/ntfs-3g/bin/ntfscmp (ELF format: 'elf64-x86-64'; RPATH: '')

My hunch is that one of the files /etc/ld.so.conf and
/etc/ld.so.conf.d/x86_64-linux-gnu.conf is missing or corrupt.  Can you
please run dpkg --verify libc-bin libc6:amd64 as root?

Cheers,
   Sven


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Re: Installing an Alternative Init?

On 11/12/2014 3:10 PM, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote:
 On Wed 12 Nov 2014 at 06:27:56 -0500, Tanstaafl wrote:
 
 On 11/11/2014 2:16 PM, Brian a...@cityscape.co.uk wrote:
 New users do not need to be be aware of all the background to the
 choosing of a default init. No advertisement is needed. By definition,
 they do not care. They want Debian. Please let them have it.

 Wow... what arrogance...
 
 Sorry to shock you. A cup of tea works wonders in such situations.

Not shocked, not at all - which is sad, really.

 That is tantamount to treating the debian userbase as lost little
 children who need to have all of the important decisions made for them.

 Sounds like, doesn't it?

Yep... thanks for admitting you're an arrogant... 'member'... lol

 Let's be practical and see how how a screen in d-i could present an
 init system choice to a user, particularly having a new user in mind.
 
 Here is my first suggestion:
 
You are about to install an init system. Please choose
 
   1. Systemd
   2. Sysvinit
   3. Upstart
   4. A. N. Other
 
   1, 2, 3, 4?
 
 Feel free to criticise and improve on it.

Sounds good to me, but in reality, since the default *and only* init
system for the last very many years was Sysvinit (this extremely salient
point seems to be completely and totally lost on the systemd
proponents), I think only systemd and sysvinit need to be there... but
allowing for additions once required bugs implementing them are resolved
as fixed.


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Re: Gigabyte BRIX with (Debian) Linux

2014-11-12 Thread Dan Ritter

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 05:19:43PM +0200, Catalin Soare wrote:
 Hi everyone,
 
 I am thinking of buying one of these devices, and I was wondering if
 someone on the list has been successful in installing Debian on any BRIX
 device, and if they could share impressions.
 
 Here is one that I have in mind:
 
 http://www.bestbuy.com/site/gigabyte-brix-desktop-computer/1309084555.p?id=mp1309084555skuId=1309084555
 

I bought one, added RAM, an internal SSD and an external USB3 HD. Wifi
needs a kernel from wheezy-backports; for install, the wired ethernet
will work just fine.

-dsr-


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Re: Installing an Alternative Init?

Le mercredi, 12 novembre 2014, 20.10:42 Brian a écrit :
 Sounds like, doesn't it? Let's be practical and see how how a screen
 in d-i could present an init system choice to a user, particularly
 having a new user in mind.

For what is worth, the layout of the menu is not the problem here.

Cheers,
OdyX


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Re: Shared libraries not found during build

2014-11-12 Thread Joel Roth

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 09:35:34PM +0100, Sven Joachim wrote:
 On 2014-11-12 21:08 +0100, Joel Roth wrote:
 
  I'm running sid. For the first time in many months, I'm
  trying to build a package from source. After compiling I'm
  getting library-not-found errors, for example: 
 
  apt-get source ntfs-3g
 
  debuild -b -uc -us
 
  Which eventually triggers a library not found error:
 
  make[1]: Entering directory '/home/jroth/build/ntfs-3g-2014.2.15AR.2'
  dh_makeshlibs --add-udeb=ntfs-3g-udeb -Vlibntfs-3g852
  make[1]: Leaving directory '/home/jroth/build/ntfs-3g-2014.2.15AR.2'
 dh_shlibdeps -O--parallel
  dpkg-shlibdeps: error: couldn't find library libntfs-3g.so.852 needed
  by debian/ntfs-3g/bin/ntfscmp (ELF format: 'elf64-x86-64'; RPATH: '')
  dpkg-shlibdeps: error: couldn't find library libc.so.6 needed by
  debian/ntfs-3g/bin/ntfscmp (ELF format: 'elf64-x86-64'; RPATH: '')
 
 My hunch is that one of the files /etc/ld.so.conf and
 /etc/ld.so.conf.d/x86_64-linux-gnu.conf is missing or corrupt.  Can you
 please run dpkg --verify libc-bin libc6:amd64 as root?

/etc/ld.so.conf.d/x86_64-linux-gnu.conf is missing.

$ sudo dpkg --verify libc-bin libc6:amd64

??5?? c /etc/ld.so.conf
??5?? c /etc/ld.so.conf.d/x86_64-linux-gnu.conf

Thanks,

Joel
 
 Cheers,
Sven
 
-- 
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moving LVM logical volumes to new disks

2014-11-12 Thread lee

Hi,

what's the best way to move existing logical volumes or a whole volume
group to new disks?

The target disks cannot be installed at the same time as the source
disks.  I will have to make some sort of copy over the network to
another machine, remove the old disks, install the new disks and put the
copy in place.

Using dd doesn't seem to be a good option because extend sizes in the
old VG can be different from the extend sizes used in the new VG.

The LVs contain VMs.  The VMs can be shut down during the migration.
It's not possible to make snapshots because the VG is full.

New disks will be 6x1TB RAID-5, old ones are 2x74GB RAID-1 on a
ServeRaid 8k.  No more than 6 discs can be installed at the same time.


-- 
Again we must be afraid of speaking of daemons for fear that daemons
might swallow us.  Finally, this fear has become reasonable.


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Re: Shared libraries not found during build

2014-11-12 Thread Sven Joachim

On 2014-11-12 22:03 +0100, Joel Roth wrote:

 On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 09:35:34PM +0100, Sven Joachim wrote:
 On 2014-11-12 21:08 +0100, Joel Roth wrote:
 
  I'm running sid. For the first time in many months, I'm
  trying to build a package from source. After compiling I'm
  getting library-not-found errors, for example: 
 
  apt-get source ntfs-3g
 
  debuild -b -uc -us
 
  Which eventually triggers a library not found error:
 
  make[1]: Entering directory '/home/jroth/build/ntfs-3g-2014.2.15AR.2'
  dh_makeshlibs --add-udeb=ntfs-3g-udeb -Vlibntfs-3g852
  make[1]: Leaving directory '/home/jroth/build/ntfs-3g-2014.2.15AR.2'
 dh_shlibdeps -O--parallel
  dpkg-shlibdeps: error: couldn't find library libntfs-3g.so.852 needed
  by debian/ntfs-3g/bin/ntfscmp (ELF format: 'elf64-x86-64'; RPATH: '')
  dpkg-shlibdeps: error: couldn't find library libc.so.6 needed by
  debian/ntfs-3g/bin/ntfscmp (ELF format: 'elf64-x86-64'; RPATH: '')
 
 My hunch is that one of the files /etc/ld.so.conf and
 /etc/ld.so.conf.d/x86_64-linux-gnu.conf is missing or corrupt.  Can you
 please run dpkg --verify libc-bin libc6:amd64 as root?

 /etc/ld.so.conf.d/x86_64-linux-gnu.conf is missing.

 $ sudo dpkg --verify libc-bin libc6:amd64

 ??5?? c /etc/ld.so.conf
 ??5?? c /etc/ld.so.conf.d/x86_64-linux-gnu.conf

Are you sure that /etc/ld.so.conf is not missing as well?  In any case,
you should reinstall the libc6 and libc-bin packages with the dpkg
--force-confmiss option to get those files back.

Cheers,
   Sven


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Re: Installing Android development software

On Mi, 12 nov 14, 20:56:34, Joel Rees wrote:
 
 If you installed it under your user's home directory,
 
 find /home -name android
 
That would require a file and/or directory named exactly 'android'.

 Or updatedb (probably as root) and locate?

That should work.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: Installing an Alternative Init?

On Mi, 12 nov 14, 12:14:34, Miles Fidelman wrote:
 (As someone else
 said - hope that LFS extends Wheezy's lifetime.  

Assuming you actually meant LTS, hope is not sufficient. From 
https://wiki.debian.org/LTS

Companies using Debian who are interested in aiding this effort 
should help directly (see LTS Development below).

Importantly, the success of Squeeze-LTS will be used to judge the 
viability of LTS support for Debian 7 (wheezy) and Debian 8 
(jessie).

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: Valuing non-code contributions -- was Re: systemd - so much energy wasted in quarreling

2014-11-12 Thread Keith Peter

On 11 November 2014 19:43, Erwan David er...@rail.eu.org wrote:
Le 11/11/2014 20:21, Don Armstrong a écrit :
On Tue, 11 Nov 2014, Erwan David wrote:
Le 11/11/2014 18:59, Don Armstrong a écrit :
When I (or someone else) asks people to show us the code, it's
really just shorthand for someone needs to do this work, and it
currently isn't important enough for me to do it.
Asking to provide a patch to an utterly complex code is just
[complete] [nonsense] and [hypocrisy]: one cannot patch any complex
software without working on it for long hours.
While it might take less time for someone intimately familiar with a
piece of code to provide a patch, it still may take a lot of time for
them to provide the patch. The actual cost may be even higher even
though it takes less time, because writing a patch means that they're
not working on something else.

It's the reality of Free Software that people work on things that they
want to work on. If something is important to you, but not important
enough for you to do it, then your next best alternative is to figure
out how you can best encourage someone else to do it for you. Calling
people hypocrites isn't a very effective way to do that.

And when the probleme is te basic design of the software a patch is
not conceivable.
Then the solution is to become involved in the software design process.

Your email makes me me regretting contibuting by translating doc (a long
time ago) otr contibuting bugs...

This kind opf stance is completely full of contempt agains non coders.
But coders are nothing if nobody uses or test.

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Hello All

http://www-users.cs.umn.edu/~halfak/publications/The_Rise_and_Decline/

Not directly applicable but food for thought.

Where are the volunteers coming from in Jessie+3 or Jessie+10 ?

'Onboarding' processes could be clearer.

cheers
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http://sohcahtoa.org.uk/

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Re: Installing an Alternative Init?

On Mi, 12 nov 14, 15:43:09, Tanstaafl wrote:
 
 Sounds good to me, but in reality, since the default *and only* init
 system for the last very many years was Sysvinit (this extremely salient
 point seems to be completely and totally lost on the systemd
 proponents), I think only systemd and sysvinit need to be there... but
 allowing for additions once required bugs implementing them are resolved
 as fixed.

You're forgetting about:

- minit: in Debian since 2004
- initng: in Debian experimental from 2005 until 2007
- upstart: in Debian since 2007
- systemd: in Debian since 2010

This is just from the top of my head, and a quick look on 
snapshot/PTS/etc. so I might have missed some.

Then there are also other tools that can function as PID 1 (e.g. 
daemontools, runit).

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: Shared libraries not found during build

2014-11-12 Thread Elimar Riesebieter

* Joel Roth jo...@pobox.com [2014-11-12 10:08 -1000]:

 
 Hi list,  
   
   
   
 I'm running sid. For the first time in many months, I'm
 trying to build a package from source. After compiling I'm
 getting library-not-found errors, for example: 
 
 apt-get source ntfs-3g
 
 debuild -b -uc -us
 
 Which eventually triggers a library not found error:
[...]
 dpkg-shlibdeps: error: cannot continue due to the errors listed above
 Note: libraries are not searched in other binary packages that do not have 
 any shlibs or symbols file.
 To help dpkg-shlibdeps find private libraries, you might need to use -l.

Try

# apt-get build-dep ntfs-3g

first and run the build again. All header dependencies for the build
should be installed now.

Elimar
-- 
 Numeric stability is probably not all that
  important when you're guessing;-)


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Re: Installing Android development software

2014-11-12 Thread Steve Greig

I have tried your suggestions and found quite a lot of files with the
word android or eclipse in them but I can not find the file called
eclipse which previously I had which when I clicked on it opened up
the eclipse program.  Thanks for your help, Steve

On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 9:44 PM, Andrei POPESCU
andreimpope...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Mi, 12 nov 14, 20:56:34, Joel Rees wrote:

 If you installed it under your user's home directory,

 find /home -name android

 That would require a file and/or directory named exactly 'android'.

 Or updatedb (probably as root) and locate?

 That should work.

 Kind regards,
 Andrei
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Re: moving LVM logical volumes to new disks

2014-11-12 Thread Don Armstrong

On Wed, 12 Nov 2014, lee wrote:
 what's the best way to move existing logical volumes or a whole volume
 group to new disks?
 
 The target disks cannot be installed at the same time as the source
 disks.  I will have to make some sort of copy over the network to
 another machine, remove the old disks, install the new disks and put the
 copy in place.
 
 The LVs contain VMs. The VMs can be shut down during the migration.
 It's not possible to make snapshots because the VG is full.
 
 New disks will be 6x1TB RAID-5, old ones are 2x74GB RAID-1 on a
 ServeRaid 8k. No more than 6 discs can be installed at the same time.

You can remove one of the RAID-1 drives, install 5 of the 1T drives, and
start both raids in degraded mode temporarily. Once you've done that,
add the new PVs to the VG, and pvmove.

Alternatively, you can start with three drives in raid-5, and then grow
the array out to the additional three drives, once you've done the
migration, or have two different raid-5 arrays in the same vg.

Alternatively, you can use an external enclosure to house the RAID1 or
RAID5 temporarily. USB is slow, but workable.

-- 
Don Armstrong  http://www.donarmstrong.com

There is no more concentrated form of evil
than apathy.


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Re: moving LVM logical volumes to new disks

2014-11-12 Thread Igor Cicimov

On 13/11/2014 8:27 AM, lee l...@yagibdah.de wrote:

 Hi,

 what's the best way to move existing logical volumes or a whole volume
 group to new disks?

 The target disks cannot be installed at the same time as the source
 disks.  I will have to make some sort of copy over the network to
 another machine, remove the old disks, install the new disks and put the
 copy in place.

 Using dd doesn't seem to be a good option because extend sizes in the
 old VG can be different from the extend sizes used in the new VG.

 The LVs contain VMs.  The VMs can be shut down during the migration.
 It's not possible to make snapshots because the VG is full.

 New disks will be 6x1TB RAID-5, old ones are 2x74GB RAID-1 on a
 ServeRaid 8k.  No more than 6 discs can be installed at the same time.


 --
 Again we must be afraid of speaking of daemons for fear that daemons
 might swallow us.  Finally, this fear has become reasonable.


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How about this, sdf is one of the new disks sdb is old that needs
replacement:

Attach sdf and add it to the vg

# pvcreate /dev/sdf
# vgextend vg1 /dev/sdf

Move the data

# pvmove /dev/sdb /dev/sdf

Remove the old disk from vg1

# vgreduce vg1 /dev/sdb

Take out sdb, attach new drive and repeat the procedure. No need to unmound
the filesystem for pvmove. Having backup is of course recommended.

Re: Valuing non-code contributions -- was Re: systemd - so much energy wasted in quarreling

On Ma, 11 nov 14, 20:43:42, Erwan David wrote:
 
 Your email makes me me regretting contibuting by translating doc (a long
 time ago) otr contibuting bugs...
 
 This kind opf stance is completely full of contempt agains non coders.
 But coders are nothing if nobody uses or test.

Might be a language issue, but I certainly did not feel any contempt 
(and yes, I am a non-coding contributor).

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: systemd - so much energy wasted in quarreling

On Mi, 12 nov 14, 19:55:08, Laurent Bigonville wrote:
 
 The TC decisions can be overruled by a GR with a simple majority, see
 the point 4.1.4 of the Constitution[0]
 
 [0] https://www.debian.org/devel/constitution#item-4

Actually it currently requires a 2:1 majority, but the TC took special 
care to make the systemd decision overridable by simple majority.

There are some other constitutional changes related to the TC that are 
pending and a change from 2:1 to simple majority will probably be 
included.

Kind regards,
Andrei
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Re: Installing from Backports