No 6.5.8 RT kernel image?

[Scott Denlinger]

I'm running trixie/sid, and I don't see a 6.5.8 RT kernel image available.
I'm currently using a 6.5.3 RT kernel, but I don't see an upgrade option.
Did I miss some kind of notification about 6.5 series RT images?

Scott Denlinger

Re: wpa_supplicant config for ap with no ssid

[David Wright]

On Sat 14 Oct 2023 at 22:27:07 (+), fxkl4...@protonmail.com wrote:
> how do i configure wpa_supplicant for a ap that does not advertise ssid
> i normally use
> 
> network={
> ssid="ap"
> psk="passphrase"
> id_str="ap"
> }

You need to add:

scan_ssid=1

for hidden SSIDs.

  http://w1.fi/cgit/hostap/plain/wpa_supplicant/wpa_supplicant.conf

If you need a hex PSK rather than the ASCII passphrase, use

  wpa_passphrase ssid passphrase

to generate it. (wpasupplicant_…_….deb contains a man page.)

Cheers,
David.

wpa_supplicant config for ap with no ssid

[fxkl47BF]

how do i configure wpa_supplicant for a ap that does not advertise ssid
i normally use

network={
ssid="ap"
psk="passphrase"
id_str="ap"
}

i tried

network={
bssid=12:34:56:78:90:ab
psk="passphrase"
id_str="ap"
}

with no success
i read that a hex passphrase is required
i found references to pbkdf2 to generate it but no details

Re: No polkit authentication agent found

[Marco]

Am 12.10.2023 schrieb Sharon Kimble :

> Brilliant! Yes, I can

Maybe you need to put that in your autostart configuration,

Re: No polkit authentication agent found

[Sharon Kimble]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

Marco  writes:

> Am 12.10.2023 schrieb Sharon Kimble :
>
>> Exactly what programs do I need to install please, so that I can burn
>> the image onto the drive please?
>
> Can you start
> /usr/lib/policykit-1-gnome/polkit-gnome-authentication-agent-1
> ?

Brilliant! Yes, I can, and I'm currently installing the iso file onto the 
cruzer blade drive.

Thank you very much :)  

Sharon.  
- -- 
A taste of linux = http://www.sharons.org.uk
DrugFacts = https://www.drugfacts.org.uk
Debian 12, fluxbox 1.3.7, emacs 30.0.50, org 9.6.9 
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Re: No polkit authentication agent found

[Marco]

Am 12.10.2023 schrieb Sharon Kimble :

> Exactly what programs do I need to install please, so that I can burn
> the image onto the drive please?

Can you start
/usr/lib/policykit-1-gnome/polkit-gnome-authentication-agent-1
?

No polkit authentication agent found

[Sharon Kimble]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA512

I'm trying to use balenaEtcher to install a dvd iso on a Cruzer Blade to then 
install on my Framework laptop (12th Generation) which I've finally got round 
to installing its guts after 394 days!

Anyway, the writing of the Cruzer Blade is failing every time saying that 'No 
polkit authentication agent found'.

Exactly what programs do I need to install please, so that I can burn the image 
onto the drive please?  

Thanks
  Sharon Kimble.
  
- -- 
A taste of linux = http://www.sharons.org.uk
DrugFacts = https://www.drugfacts.org.uk
Debian 12, fluxbox 1.3.7, emacs 30.0.50, org 9.6.9 
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[Solved] No wifi on debian 12 fresh install (HP laptop 440 14" G10)

[Itay]

On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, at 16:18, Itay wrote:
> On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, at 15:41, Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:
>> On 04.10.2023 17:08, Itay wrote:
>>> Hi
>>> 
>>> I recently purchased an HP ProBook 440 14" G10 laptop.
>>> [snip]
>>> 
>>> ...
>>> # kernel 
>>> 
>>> Linux 6.1.0-10-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Debian 6.1.38-1 (2023-07-14) 
>>> x86_64 unknown unknown GNU/Linux
>>> ...
>>> # lspci #
>>> 
>>> 03:00.0 Network controller [0280]: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. Device 
>>> [10ec:c852] (rev 01)
>>> Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company Device [103c:88e5]
>>> ...
>>> 
>> https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=155976
>> 
>> You need [1] to compile a kernel module for your wifi adapter. There is no 
>> other way.
>> Just follow build instructions [2] closely and you should be fine.
>> 
>> 
>> [1] https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=155976
>> [2] 
>> https://github.com/lwfinger/rtw89#dkms-packaging-for-debian-and-its-derivatives
>> 
>> --
>> With kindest regards, Alexander.
>> 
>> ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
>> ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
>> ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
>> ⠈⠳⣄

Followed the instructions in https://github.com/lwfinger/rtw89.
Wifi works like a charm.
I did *not* try, yet, to automate the process as described here:
https://github.com/lwfinger/rtw89#dkms-packaging-for-debian-and-its-derivatives

Thanks again to the responders.
Cheers

Re: No wifi on debian 12 fresh install (HP laptop 440 14" G10)

[Itay]

Thank you for the quick reply.
I will follow yous and Michale's advice.

Itay

On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, at 15:41, Alexander V. Makartsev wrote:
> On 04.10.2023 17:08, Itay wrote:
>> Hi
>> 
>> I recently purchased an HP ProBook 440 14" G10 laptop.
>> This configuration is certified by Ubuntu[1].
>> The specs, as advertised by HP, can be found here[2].
>> 
>> The installation (debian 12 'bookworm') went as expected (using DVD and wired
>> connection).  However, after reboot, I discovered that wifi was not working.
>> Bluetooth, on the other hand, is working.
>> 
>> After three days of search on the internet[3]-[9] I am really at a loss.
>> I have been a long-time debian *user* -- but am not an expert.
>> I am aware of the possibility to download drivers and compile them from
>> source[10]-[12], but hesitate to do that without an expert guide.
>> 
>> System and device information, as gathered by wireless-info script[13], will
>> follow the references.
>> 
>> Please advise
>> Thanks in advance.
>> Itay
>> 
>> 
>> ...
>> # kernel 
>> 
>> Linux 6.1.0-10-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Debian 6.1.38-1 (2023-07-14) 
>> x86_64 unknown unknown GNU/Linux
>> ...
>> # lspci #
>> 
>> 03:00.0 Network controller [0280]: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. Device 
>> [10ec:c852] (rev 01)
>> Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company Device [103c:88e5]
>> ...
>> 
> https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=155976
> 
> You need [1] to compile a kernel module for your wifi adapter. There is no 
> other way.
> Just follow build instructions [2] closely and you should be fine.
> 
> 
> [1] https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=155976
> [2] 
> https://github.com/lwfinger/rtw89#dkms-packaging-for-debian-and-its-derivatives
> 
> --
> With kindest regards, Alexander.
> 
> ⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀ 
> ⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
> ⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
> ⠈⠳⣄

Re: No wifi on debian 12 fresh install (HP laptop 440 14" G10)

[Itay]

Thank you for the quick reply.

On Wed, 4 Oct 2023, at 15:32, Michael Kjörling wrote:
> On 4 Oct 2023 15:08 +0300, from deb...@itayf.fastmail.fm (Itay):
>> The installation (debian 12 'bookworm') went as expected (using DVD and wired
>> connection).  However, after reboot, I discovered that wifi was not working.
>> Bluetooth, on the other hand, is working.
>
> Looks like your wireless NIC is a Realtek 10ec:c852 which on 6.1 needs
> an out-of-tree kernel module?
>
> See https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=155976
>
> Which in https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?p=782189#p782189 in
> turn points to https://github.com/lwfinger/rtw89/tree/main
>
> Or you can try installing the kernel from bookworm-backports which is
> currently on the 6.4 series, since 6.4 apparently includes that driver.
> https://packages.debian.org/bookworm-backports/linux-image-amd64

Am I right to assume that the second method implies a bigger change from the 
standard installation (and therefore might be less preferable)?

> -- 
> Michael Kjörling 🔗 https://michael.kjorling.se
> “Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

Re: No wifi on debian 12 fresh install (HP laptop 440 14" G10)

[Alexander V. Makartsev]

On 04.10.2023 17:08, Itay wrote:

Hi

I recently purchased an HP ProBook 440 14" G10 laptop.
This configuration is certified by Ubuntu[1].
The specs, as advertised by HP, can be found here[2].

The installation (debian 12 'bookworm') went as expected (using DVD and wired
connection).  However, after reboot, I discovered that wifi was not working.
Bluetooth, on the other hand, is working.

After three days of search on the internet[3]-[9] I am really at a loss.
I have been a long-time debian *user* -- but am not an expert.
I am aware of the possibility to download drivers and compile them from
source[10]-[12], but hesitate to do that without an expert guide.

System and device information, as gathered by wireless-info script[13], will
follow the references.

Please advise
Thanks in advance.
Itay


...
# kernel 

Linux 6.1.0-10-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Debian 6.1.38-1 (2023-07-14) x86_64 
unknown unknown GNU/Linux
...
# lspci #

03:00.0 Network controller [0280]: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. Device 
[10ec:c852] (rev 01)
Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company Device [103c:88e5]
...

https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=155976

You need [1] to compile a kernel module for your wifi adapter. There is 
no other way.

Just follow build instructions [2] closely and you should be fine.


[1] https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=155976
[2] 
https://github.com/lwfinger/rtw89#dkms-packaging-for-debian-and-its-derivatives


--
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄

Re: No wifi on debian 12 fresh install (HP laptop 440 14" G10)

[Michael Kjörling]

On 4 Oct 2023 15:08 +0300, from deb...@itayf.fastmail.fm (Itay):
> The installation (debian 12 'bookworm') went as expected (using DVD and wired
> connection).  However, after reboot, I discovered that wifi was not working.
> Bluetooth, on the other hand, is working.

Looks like your wireless NIC is a Realtek 10ec:c852 which on 6.1 needs
an out-of-tree kernel module?

See https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=155976

Which in https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?p=782189#p782189 in
turn points to https://github.com/lwfinger/rtw89/tree/main

Or you can try installing the kernel from bookworm-backports which is
currently on the 6.4 series, since 6.4 apparently includes that driver.
https://packages.debian.org/bookworm-backports/linux-image-amd64

-- 
Michael Kjörling 🔗 https://michael.kjorling.se
“Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

No wifi on debian 12 fresh install (HP laptop 440 14" G10)

[Itay]

Hi

I recently purchased an HP ProBook 440 14" G10 laptop.
This configuration is certified by Ubuntu[1].
The specs, as advertised by HP, can be found here[2].

The installation (debian 12 'bookworm') went as expected (using DVD and wired
connection).  However, after reboot, I discovered that wifi was not working.
Bluetooth, on the other hand, is working.

After three days of search on the internet[3]-[9] I am really at a loss.
I have been a long-time debian *user* -- but am not an expert.
I am aware of the possibility to download drivers and compile them from
source[10]-[12], but hesitate to do that without an expert guide.

System and device information, as gathered by wireless-info script[13], will
follow the references.

Please advise
Thanks in advance.
Itay


## references

[1] https://ubuntu.com/certified/202301-31130/22.04%20LTS
[2] https://h20195.www2.hp.com/v2/GetDocument.aspx?docname=c08480164
[3] https://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=151340
[4] 
https://askubuntu.com/questions/1475717/network-controller-driver-of-rtl8852ce-does-not-work-on-20-04
[5] 
https://askubuntu.com/questions/1215532/realtek-8822ce-wifi-not-working-but-bluetooth-working
[6] 
https://askubuntu.com/questions/1336379/network-driver-for-realtek-8852-20-10
[7] 
https://naushadbhat.medium.com/ubuntu-wifi-not-working-in-new-hp-laptops-solution-533e68613b7b
[8] https://forums.linuxmint.com/viewtopic.php?t=397536
[9] http://linux-wless.passys.nl/
[10] 
https://www.realtek.com/en/component/zoo/category/network-interface-controllers-10-100-1000m-gigabit-ethernet-pci-express-software
[11] https://github.com/airium/Realtek-PCIe-GBE-NIC-Driver
[12] https://github.com/lwfinger
[13] https://github.com/UbuntuForums/wireless-info


## wireless info START ##

Report from: 04 Oct 2023 11:45 IDT +0300

Booted last: 04 Oct 2023 00:00 IDT +0300

Script from: 25 Jan 2020 03:34 UTC +

# release ###

Distributor ID: Debian
Description: Debian GNU/Linux 12 (bookworm)
Release: 12
Codename: bookworm

# kernel 

Linux 6.1.0-10-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Debian 6.1.38-1 (2023-07-14) x86_64 
unknown unknown GNU/Linux

Parameters: ro, quiet

# desktop ###

sed: can't read /root/.dmrc: No such file or directory

Could not be determined.

# lspci #

03:00.0 Network controller [0280]: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. Device 
[10ec:c852] (rev 01)
Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company Device [103c:88e5]

04:00.0 Ethernet controller [0200]: Realtek Semiconductor Co., Ltd. 
RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit Ethernet Controller [10ec:8168] (rev 15)
Subsystem: Hewlett-Packard Company RTL8111/8168/8411 PCI Express Gigabit 
Ethernet Controller [103c:8b78]
Kernel driver in use: r8169

# lsusb #

Bus 004 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub
Bus 003 Device 005: ID 04f3:0c7e Elan Microelectronics Corp. ELAN:ARM-M4
Bus 003 Device 004: ID 0bda:c85c Realtek Semiconductor Corp. Bluetooth Radio
Bus 003 Device 002: ID 0408:5483 Quanta Computer, Inc. HP HD Camera
Bus 003 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0003 Linux Foundation 3.0 root hub
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub

# PCMCIA card info ##

# rfkill 

13: hci0: Bluetooth
Soft blocked: no
Hard blocked: no

# secure boot ###

SecureBoot disabled

# lsmod #

wmi_bmof   16384  0
wmi36864  2 video,wmi_bmof

# interfaces 

[/etc/network/interfaces]

source /etc/network/interfaces.d/*

auto lo
iface lo inet loopback

# ifconfig ##

1: lo:  mtu 65536 qdisc noqueue state UNKNOWN group 
default qlen 1000
link/loopback  brd 
inet 127.0.0.1/8 scope host lo
   valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
inet6 ::1/128 scope host noprefixroute 
   valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever
2: enp4s0:  mtu 1500 qdisc fq_codel state UP 
group default qlen 1000
link/ether  brd 
inet 10.0.0.17/24 brd 10.0.0.255 scope global dynamic noprefixroute enp4s0
   valid_lft 3358sec preferred_lft 3358sec
inet6 2a10:8010:680d:0:baa1:56c:141b:ca7/64 scope global temporary dynamic 
   valid_lft 86122sec preferred_lft 84235sec
inet6 2a10:8010:680d:0:/64 scope global dynamic 
mngtmpaddr noprefixroute 
   valid_lft 86122sec preferred_lft 86122sec
inet6 fe80::/64 scope link noprefixroute 
   valid_lft forever preferred_lft forever

# iwconfig ######

lono wireless extensions.

enp4s0no wireless extensions.

# route #

default via 10.0.0.138 dev enp4s0 proto dhcp src 10.0.0.17 metric 100 
10.0.0.0/24 dev enp4s0 proto kernel scope link src 

Re: systemctl status mariadb - Access denied for user root at localhost using password NO

[Andy Smith]

Hello,

On Mon, Oct 02, 2023 at 04:45:25PM +0300, Petros Pap wrote:
> root@server:~# mysql -u root
> ERROR 1045 (28000): Access denied for user 'root'@'localhost' (using
> password: NO)

I believe that the Debian packaging of MariaDB is by default set up
to allow socket authentication for root@localhost so that any root
process can connect to root@localhost through the socket without
supplying a password. I also believe that this is required for
correct functioning of the packaging.

If that no longer works for you, then you or something you ran must
have changed it.

> Can you please advise me what to do?

You should re-enable socket authentication for root@localhost.

If you also need to have things connect to root@localhost by
password then I believe you can allow socket OR password auth. A
simple search will tell you how to do this in MariaDB.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

systemctl status mariadb - Access denied for user root at localhost using password NO

[Petros Pap]

-- System Information:
Debian GNU/Linux 12 (bookworm)
Linux server 6.1.0-12-amd64 #1 SMP PREEMPT_DYNAMIC Debian 6.1.52-1
(2023-09-07) x86_64 GNU/Linux
Version: systemd 252 (252.12-1~deb12u1) +PAM +AUDIT +SELINUX +APPARMOR +IMA
+SMACK +SECCOMP +GCRYPT -GNUTLS +OPENSSL +ACL +BLKID +CURL +ELFUTILS +FIDO2
+IDN2 -IDN +IPTC +KMOD +LIBCRYPTSETUP +LIBFDISK +PCRE2 -PWQUALITY +P11KIT
+QRENCODE +TPM2 +BZIP2 +LZ4 +XZ +ZLIB +ZSTD -BPF_FRAMEWORK -XKBCOMMON +UTMP
+SYSVINIT default-hierarchy=unified


-- Issue
I have installed Webmin, mariadb, and phpmyadmin

All the above is working
I can create databases from Webmin and create databases from phpmyadmin
and i can login to mysql

root@server:~# mysql -u root
ERROR 1045 (28000): Access denied for user 'root'@'localhost' (using
password: NO)
root@server:~# mysql -u root -p
Enter password:
Welcome to the MariaDB monitor.  Commands end with ; or \g.
Your MariaDB connection id is 5958
Server version: 10.11.3-MariaDB-1 Debian 12

Copyright (c) 2000, 2018, Oracle, MariaDB Corporation Ab and others.

Type 'help;' or '\h' for help. Type '\c' to clear the current input
statement.

MariaDB [(none)]>


But when i try


root@server:~# systemctl stop mariadb.service
root@server:~# systemctl restart mariadb.service
root@server:~# systemctl status mariadb.service
● mariadb.service - MariaDB 10.11.3 database server
 Loaded: loaded (/lib/systemd/system/mariadb.service; enabled; preset:
enabled)
 Active: active (running) since Mon 2023-10-02 16:04:54 EEST; 17s ago
   Docs: man:mariadbd(8)
 https://mariadb.com/kb/en/library/systemd/
Process: 153057 ExecStartPre=/usr/bin/install -m 755 -o mysql -g root
-d /var/run/mysqld (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS)
Process: 153058 ExecStartPre=/bin/sh -c systemctl unset-environment
_WSREP_START_POSITION (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS)
Process: 153060 ExecStartPre=/bin/sh -c [ ! -e /usr/bin/galera_recovery
] && VAR= ||   VAR=`cd /usr/bin/..; /usr/bin/galera_recovery`; [ $? -eq 0 ]
  && s>
Process: 153144 ExecStartPost=/bin/sh -c systemctl unset-environment
_WSREP_START_POSITION (code=exited, status=0/SUCCESS)
Process: 153146 ExecStartPost=/etc/mysql/debian-start (code=exited,
status=0/SUCCESS)
   Main PID: 153131 (mariadbd)
 Status: "Taking your SQL requests now..."
  Tasks: 14 (limit: 14299)
 Memory: 172.9M
CPU: 744ms
 CGroup: /system.slice/mariadb.service
 └─153131 /usr/sbin/mariadbd

Oct 02 16:04:53 server systemd[1]: Starting mariadb.service - MariaDB
10.11.3 database server...
Oct 02 16:04:54 server systemd[1]: Started mariadb.service - MariaDB
10.11.3 database server.
Oct 02 16:04:54 server /etc/mysql/debian-start[153151]: Reading datadir
from the MariaDB server failed. Got the following error when executing th>
Oct 02 16:04:54 server /etc/mysql/debian-start[153151]: ERROR 1045 (28000):
Access denied for user 'root'@'localhost' (using password: NO)
Oct 02 16:04:54 server /etc/mysql/debian-start[153151]: FATAL ERROR:
Upgrade failed
Oct 02 16:04:54 server debian-start[153160]: ERROR 1045 (28000): Access
denied for user 'root'@'localhost' (using password: NO)


I don't know if the problem is from systemctl or from mariadb or from
phpmyadmin,
I believe is systemctl because everything else seems is working

Can you please advise me what to do?

-- 
ppetros

Re: "sudo apt-get install android-tools-adb" ... (then no device listed)

[Anssi Saari]

David Wright  writes:

> You'd have to specify a set of criteria to test. I just treat
> /media/samsungd like any other filesystem, copying files in the
> usual manner.

Well, when I last tried MTP in Linux I got maybe half of a directory
listing and then it hung there. Concluded it doesn't work but to be sure
it's been a minute.

Re: "sudo apt-get install android-tools-adb" ... (then no device listed)

[David Wright]

On Mon 25 Sep 2023 at 21:08:34 (+0300), Anssi Saari wrote:
> David Wright  writes:
> > On Sun 24 Sep 2023 at 22:13:20 (+), Albretch Mueller wrote:
> >> On 9/24/23, Marco M.  wrote:
> >> > On most Android phones, you need to explicit allow data transfers.
> >> 
> >>  What do you functionally mean? I need for you to talk to me like
> >> this:  a) go "Settings"; b) ...
> >
> > On bullseye I have android-file-transfer installed. I connect the
> > phone to the PC with USB, and run this function:
> >
> >   samsungd () 
> >   { 
> >   sudo mkdir -p /media/samsungd || true;
> >   sudo chown "$USER" /media/samsungd;
> >   aft-mtp-mount /media/samsungd
> >   }
> 
> Does this android-file-transfer provide a working and reliable MTP
> implementation for Linux then? I think I'll stick with rsync and adb but
> would be good to know if MTP is working on Linux these days.

You'd have to specify a set of criteria to test. I just treat
/media/samsungd like any other filesystem, copying files in the
usual manner. As mentioned in:

  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Media_Transfer_Protocol

the phone screens are operable while connected (though I haven't
tested making calls), file modification timestamps are only preserved
phone→PC, not the other way, and you don't have to worry about pulling
the plug before unmounting.

In contrast, older phones that use MSC are inoperable as the screen is
locked, with a warning not to physically disconnect until a button has
been tapped.

Cheers,
David.

Re: "sudo apt-get install android-tools-adb" ... (then no device listed)

[David Wright]

On Mon 25 Sep 2023 at 17:41:13 (+), Albretch Mueller wrote:
> On 9/24/23, Michel Verdier  wrote:
> > If you use USB you need a cable allowing data, some allow only power.
> 
>  The  USB cable I have been using to charge the battery of that phone
> visually seems to be the same exact one being advertised as doubling
> as a data cable, but running:
>  $ sudo lsusb
>  Before and after plugging in the phone doesn’t show any difference.
>  Is there a way to test for sure that cable is the right one?

You should see lines appear in the kern.log (or wherever you have
configured your logs) like:

  kernel: usb 2-2: new high-speed USB device number 15 using xhci_hcd
  kernel: usb 2-2: New USB device found, idVendor=04e8, idProduct=6860, 
bcdDevice= 4.04
  kernel: usb 2-2: New USB device strings: Mfr=1, Product=2, SerialNumber=3
  kernel: usb 2-2: Product: SAMSUNG_Android
  kernel: usb 2-2: Manufacturer: SAMSUNG
  kernel: usb 2-2: SerialNumber: ABCDEF123GH
  kernel: cdc_acm 2-2:1.1: ttyACM0: USB ACM device

when you connect it and

  kernel: usb 2-2: USB disconnect, device number 15

when you disconnect.

On Mon 25 Sep 2023 at 19:21:53 (+), Albretch Mueller wrote:
> On 9/25/23, Albretch Mueller  wrote:
> >  Most probably there is a setting in that phone I haven’t been able to
> > find.

That's possible. I tried to think back to when I first connected up
the phone and, searching diligently, I recalled that when the phone
is connected (data cable, obviously), swiping down the Notifications
screen shows an entry "USB for file transfer". Tapping that changes
it to:

  Android System
  USB for file transfer
  Tap for other USB options

Tapping the last gives another screen with "radio" options to:

  Control USB by This/Connected device
  Use USB for FileTransfer/Tethering/MIDI/ImageTransfer/ChargingOnly

plus a "slider" to transcode exported video. I selected both the
first options. You might have a phone still set to charging only.
On this phone, the selected options stay as selected, though I have
to change the second set when I tether (only done that in the UK).

>  Android awakens when I unplug the cable from the computer; so,
> something is being somehow detected.

Typically that would only indicate that the phone was switched on
and being charged. It could be a data cable, or a power-only one,
like those ones with a bunch of different connectors on the end.

On Mon 25 Sep 2023 at 17:41:13 (+), Albretch Mueller wrote:
> On 9/25/23, Marco  wrote:
> > According to the Google documentation:
> 
>  which I found:
> 
> // __ Transfer files between your computer and Android device
> 
>  https://support.google.com/android/answer/9064445?hl=en-GB
> ~
>  doesn’t really explain what to do. They apparently want for you to
> transfer your files to google drive and all that non sense.

That's not the way I read Option 2: Move files with a USB cable.
My method is very similar to option 2's Mac computer:

  1 Download and install Android File Transfer on your computer.
  4 With a USB cable, connect your device to your computer.

Just the same.

  5 On your device, tap the 'Charging this device via USB' notification.
  6 Under 'Use USB for', select File transfer.

As outlined above.

  2 Open Android File Transfer. The next time that you connect your device, it 
opens automatically.

That's when I run my samsungd command.

  3 Unlock your device.

That's when I tap "Allow". (Using the term "unlock" is confusing to me.)

  7 An Android File Transfer window will open on your computer. Use it to drag 
files.

Perhaps linux DEs do that too, IDK. I just use mc, cp, or anything
else you'd use for a mounted filesystem. (And tools like find,
du and df etc.)

Before their final step, I unmount (with fusermount -u) the
filesystem, but that step is a convenience for the PC side,
taking listings, and removing the mount point.

  8 When you've finished, unplug the USB cable.

This is safe to do at any time.

I don't know anything about clouds etc, and have only used Google
on the phone (AFAIK) for regular searches, maps, and navigation.
I archive my photos, along with those from all the other cameras
of mine, on spinning rust.

>  I also tried mtp fs utility, but I am getting the error message:
> detect failed: no MTP devices found
> 
>  go-mtpfs -android  ""
>  2023/09/25 12:10:10 detect failed: no MTP devices found
> ~
>  I also tried jmtpfs:
> 
> $ which jmtpfs
> /usr/bin/jmtpfs
> 
> $ jmtpfs --version
> jmtpfs version: 0.5
> FUSE library version: 2.9.9
> fusermount version: 2.9.9
> using FUSE kernel interface version 7.19
> 
> $ sudo jmtpfs
> No mtp devices found.

I've no experience with using them, and don't know the pros and cons,
not having had the need. They're mentioned in:

  https://wiki.archlinux.org/title/Media_Transfer_Protocol

Cheers,
David.

Re: "sudo apt-get install android-tools-adb" ... (then no device listed)

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 10:13 PM Jeffrey Walton  wrote:
>
> On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 7:05 PM Albretch Mueller  wrote:
> >
> > On 9/24/23, Michel Verdier  wrote:
> > > If you use USB you need a cable allowing data, some allow only power.
> >
> >  The  USB cable I have been using to charge the battery of that phone
> > visually seems to be the same exact one being advertised as doubling
> > as a data cable, but running:
> >  $ sudo lsusb
> >  Before and after plugging in the phone doesn’t show any difference.
> >  Is there a way to test for sure that cable is the right one?
>
> It sounds like you are using a charging cable, or a cheap data cable.
> I would try a quality data cable before going down the rabbit hole.
>
> You should also state which USB protocol your phone uses. Different
> USB standards have different requirements. For example, USB 1.0 and
> 2.0 only need a 4-wire data cable (PWR, GND, D+ and D-). USB-C needs a
> 24-pin data cable and must implement the USB-PD protocol.
>
> Also see <https://www.google.com/search?q=usb+cable+pinouts>.

And one other thing I've found, but I have no explanation for...

Sometimes you cannot use an intermediate USB hub. I have a Dell XPS
8930 and Pixel 4a. I also bought a USB 3.0 Hub with power ports for
charging from my desktop,
<https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075NMVGP7>.

When I want to use adb, I have to plug the phone directly into the
computer. When the phone is directly plugged into the computer, 'adb
install ' works as expected. I can also transfer pictures.

When plugged into the hub, I can only install small apk's. If the apk
is too large, then I get an error when running 'adb install '.
You may experience the same or a similar problem with large file
transfers.

Like I said, I have no explanation for it. I just know it happens.
When I experience it, I plug the phone directly into the computer.

Jeff

Re: "sudo apt-get install android-tools-adb" ... (then no device listed)

[Jeffrey Walton]

On Mon, Sep 25, 2023 at 7:05 PM Albretch Mueller  wrote:
>
> On 9/24/23, Michel Verdier  wrote:
> > If you use USB you need a cable allowing data, some allow only power.
>
>  The  USB cable I have been using to charge the battery of that phone
> visually seems to be the same exact one being advertised as doubling
> as a data cable, but running:
>  $ sudo lsusb
>  Before and after plugging in the phone doesn’t show any difference.
>  Is there a way to test for sure that cable is the right one?

It sounds like you are using a charging cable, or a cheap data cable.
I would try a quality data cable before going down the rabbit hole.

You should also state which USB protocol your phone uses. Different
USB standards have different requirements. For example, USB 1.0 and
2.0 only need a 4-wire data cable (PWR, GND, D+ and D-). USB-C needs a
24-pin data cable and must implement the USB-PD protocol.

Also see .

Jeff

Re: "sudo apt-get install android-tools-adb" ... (then no device listed)

[Michel Verdier]

On 2023-09-25, Albretch Mueller wrote:

>  Is there a way to test for sure that cable is the right one?

Usually the original cable furnished with the phone is a data cable. My
only test was to successfully use adb then change cable and see that I
have some power only cables.

Re: "sudo apt-get install android-tools-adb" ... (then no device listed)

[Michel Verdier]

On 2023-09-25, Albretch Mueller wrote:

>  Android awakens when I unplug the cable from the computer; so,
> something is being somehow detected.

android also awakens on power on/off

Re: "sudo apt-get install android-tools-adb" ... (then no device listed)

[Nicolas George]

David Wright (12023-09-25):
> On bullseye I have android-file-transfer installed. I connect the
> phone to the PC with USB, and run this function:

If we are sharing how we do file transfer to and from an Android phone:

My favorite solution is tu install Termux and run sshd in it. Then I can
use rsync or anything I want to do the transfer. Add Tinc to get a
stable reachable IP.

Regards,

-- 
  Nicolas George


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Re: "sudo apt-get install android-tools-adb" ... (then no device listed)

[Albretch Mueller]

On 9/25/23, Albretch Mueller  wrote:
>  Most probably there is a setting in that phone I haven’t been able to
> find.

 Android awakens when I unplug the cable from the computer; so,
something is being somehow detected.

 lbrtchx

Re: "sudo apt-get install android-tools-adb" ... (then no device listed)

[Anssi Saari]

David Wright  writes:

> On Sun 24 Sep 2023 at 22:13:20 (+), Albretch Mueller wrote:
>> On 9/24/23, Marco M.  wrote:
>> > On most Android phones, you need to explicit allow data transfers.
>> 
>>  What do you functionally mean? I need for you to talk to me like
>> this:  a) go "Settings"; b) ...
>
> On bullseye I have android-file-transfer installed. I connect the
> phone to the PC with USB, and run this function:
>
>   samsungd () 
>   { 
>   sudo mkdir -p /media/samsungd || true;
>   sudo chown "$USER" /media/samsungd;
>   aft-mtp-mount /media/samsungd
>   }

Does this android-file-transfer provide a working and reliable MTP
implementation for Linux then? I think I'll stick with rsync and adb but
would be good to know if MTP is working on Linux these days.

Re: "sudo apt-get install android-tools-adb" ... (then no device listed)

[Albretch Mueller]

On 9/24/23, Michel Verdier  wrote:
> If you use USB you need a cable allowing data, some allow only power.

 The  USB cable I have been using to charge the battery of that phone
visually seems to be the same exact one being advertised as doubling
as a data cable, but running:
 $ sudo lsusb
 Before and after plugging in the phone doesn’t show any difference.
 Is there a way to test for sure that cable is the right one?
~
On 9/25/23, Marco  wrote:
> According to the Google documentation:

 which I found:

// __ Transfer files between your computer and Android device

 https://support.google.com/android/answer/9064445?hl=en-GB
~
 doesn’t really explain what to do. They apparently want for you to
transfer your files to google drive and all that non sense.

 I also tried mtp fs utility, but I am getting the error message:
detect failed: no MTP devices found

 go-mtpfs -android  ""
 2023/09/25 12:10:10 detect failed: no MTP devices found
~
 I also tried jmtpfs:

$ which jmtpfs
/usr/bin/jmtpfs

$ jmtpfs --version
jmtpfs version: 0.5
FUSE library version: 2.9.9
fusermount version: 2.9.9
using FUSE kernel interface version 7.19

$ sudo jmtpfs
No mtp devices found.
~
 Most probably there is a setting in that phone I haven’t been able to find.

 lbrtchx

Re: "sudo apt-get install android-tools-adb" ... (then no device listed)

[David Wright]

On Sun 24 Sep 2023 at 22:13:20 (+), Albretch Mueller wrote:
> On 9/24/23, Marco M.  wrote:
> > On most Android phones, you need to explicit allow data transfers.
> 
>  What do you functionally mean? I need for you to talk to me like
> this:  a) go "Settings"; b) ...

On bullseye I have android-file-transfer installed. I connect the
phone to the PC with USB, and run this function:

  samsungd () 
  { 
  sudo mkdir -p /media/samsungd || true;
  sudo chown "$USER" /media/samsungd;
  aft-mtp-mount /media/samsungd
  }

whereupon the phone will ask:

  Allow access to phone data?
  … …
 [Deny]   [Allow]

Tapping Allow makes the contents of the phone appear under
/media/samsungd. I use mc to transfer files in each direction.
When I've finished, I run:

  unsamsungd () 
  { 
  ###;
  fusermount -u /media/samsungd;
  sudo rmdir /media/samsungd || true
  }

and disconnect the cable (the one that came in the box with the phone).

Actually, the ### is really a call to a function that runs a flavour
of updatedb, and generates a compressed ls -lAR (for mc) and a
compressed custom listing of all the files (date/size/name).
BTW the d distinguishes my own phone from our other one when they're
both connected (there's no daemon involved).

As for (android-tools-)adb, I read that unless
android-sdk-platform-tools-common is installed, you need to run adb
as root. I don't know what extra things adb buys you, compared with
android-file-transfer. I'm mainly interested in pictures, movies,
audio, and stuff like that, rather than screwing around the phone's
internals.

Cheers,
David.

Re: "sudo apt-get install android-tools-adb" ... (then no device listed)

[Roland Mueller]

As far as I remember adb requires debugging to be enabled on the Android
device.

For newer androids following - slighly obscure - process has to be used:

Enabling USB Debugging on an Android Device
- On the device, go to Settings > About .
- Tap the Build number seven times to make Settings > Developer options
available.
- Then enable the USB Debugging option.

ma 25. syysk. 2023 klo 7.52 Marco (m...@dorfdsl.de) kirjoitti:

> Am 24.09.2023 22:13 schrieb Albretch Mueller:
>
> >  What do you functionally mean? I need for you to talk to me like
> > this:  a) go "Settings"; b) ...
>
> According to the Google documentation:
> With a USB cable, connect your device to your computer.
> On your device, tap the "Charging this device via USB" notification.
> Under "Use USB for," select File Transfer.
>
>

Re: "sudo apt-get install android-tools-adb" ... (then no device listed)

[Marco]

Am 24.09.2023 22:13 schrieb Albretch Mueller:

>  What do you functionally mean? I need for you to talk to me like
> this:  a) go "Settings"; b) ...

According to the Google documentation:
With a USB cable, connect your device to your computer.
On your device, tap the "Charging this device via USB" notification.
Under "Use USB for," select File Transfer.

Re: "sudo apt-get install android-tools-adb" ... (then no device listed)

[Albretch Mueller]

On 9/24/23, Marco M.  wrote:
> On most Android phones, you need to explicit allow data transfers.

 What do you functionally mean? I need for you to talk to me like
this:  a) go "Settings"; b) ...

 Thank you,
 lbrtchx

On 9/24/23, Marco M.  wrote:
> Am 24.09.2023 um 19:45:11 Uhr schrieb Albretch Mueller:
>
>>  How can you troubleshoot that problem or, do you know about any other
>> way to transfer your data to a drive off your phone?
>
> On most Android phones, you need to explicit allow data transfers.
> Did you do?
>
>

Re: "sudo apt-get install android-tools-adb" ... (then no device listed)

[Michel Verdier]

On 2023-09-24, Albretch Mueller wrote:

>  Basically, I need to transfer selected data (whatsapp, messages,
> phone calls, ...) off my phone to my computer's hdd.
>
>  How can you troubleshoot that problem or, do you know about any other
> way to transfer your data to a drive off your phone?

If you use USB you need a cable allowing data, some allow only power.
Then you have to enable USB debug in developpement options (which you
have to enable using some magic specific to your model, search internet
for it). And USB must be accepted in MTP mode on your phone (usually by
default). If all this is done your device should be listed.

There is also some applications that can do transfer, like syncopoli
using rsync without USB. Or syncthing. Or termux on which you can use
subversion or git or other unix tools.

Re: "sudo apt-get install android-tools-adb" ... (then no device listed)

[Marco M.]

Am 24.09.2023 um 19:45:11 Uhr schrieb Albretch Mueller:

>  How can you troubleshoot that problem or, do you know about any other
> way to transfer your data to a drive off your phone?

On most Android phones, you need to explicit allow data transfers.
Did you do?

"sudo apt-get install android-tools-adb" ... (then no device listed)

[Albretch Mueller]

$ uname -a
Linux debian 5.10.0-18-amd64 #1 SMP Debian 5.10.140-1 (2022-09-02)
x86_64 GNU/Linux

$ sudo apt-get update
...

$ date; sudo apt-get install android-tools-adb
Sun 24 Sep 2023 02:07:24 PM UTC
...

$ which adb
/usr/bin/adb

$ adb --version
Android Debug Bridge version 1.0.41
Version 28.0.2-debian
Installed as /usr/lib/android-sdk/platform-tools/adb

$ adb devices
* daemon not running; starting now at tcp:5037
* daemon started successfully
List of devices attached

$

 As usual (being a TI makes your life so enjoyable!) I found similar
posts online and ways to solve such problems (some of them quite
voodoo-like):

 
https://stackoverflow.com/questions/21170392/my-android-device-does-not-appear-in-the-list-of-adb-devices
~
 Basically, I need to transfer selected data (whatsapp, messages,
phone calls, ...) off my phone to my computer's hdd.

 How can you troubleshoot that problem or, do you know about any other
way to transfer your data to a drive off your phone?

 lbrtchx

Porfavor pueden limpiar mi celular no saben cómo he pasado estos meses después de mis cuentas hackeadas no el celular me lo han querido cambiar ya q tiene 4 meses de uso y la garantía nada porfavor li

[Jesus Rivera]

Enviado desde mi iphone jr

Re: Upgrade to Bookworm, now GNOME keyring dies--no access to stored SSH key passwords

[Nate Bargmann]

* On 2023 14 Aug 21:29 -0500, Max Nikulin wrote:
> On 14/08/2023 07:30, Nate Bargmann wrote:
> > Now, while typing this email all keyring PIDs have vanished!
> 
> It may be a way to minimize RAM usage.

I don't think so.  It has been persistent in the past in Buster and
Bullseye with GNOME and is persistent on the laptop which is also
running Bookworm and GNOME.  On this desktop it will rather reliably
shutdown/crash about exactly an hour after logging in with no other
desktop activity, i.e. not opening browsers or other apps.

> The agent may be a socket-activated
> process.
>
> systemctl --user list-sockets

The lists are virtually identical between the laptop:

$ systemctl --user list-sockets
LISTEN   UNITACTIVATES  
 
/run/user/1000/bus   dbus.socket 
dbus.service
/run/user/1000/gcr/ssh   gcr-ssh-agent.socket
gcr-ssh-agent.service
/run/user/1000/gnupg/S.dirmngr   dirmngr.socket  
dirmngr.service
/run/user/1000/gnupg/S.gpg-agent gpg-agent.socket
gpg-agent.service
/run/user/1000/gnupg/S.gpg-agent.browser gpg-agent-browser.socket
gpg-agent.service
/run/user/1000/gnupg/S.gpg-agent.extra   gpg-agent-extra.socket  
gpg-agent.service
/run/user/1000/gnupg/S.gpg-agent.ssh gpg-agent-ssh.socket
gpg-agent.service
/run/user/1000/keyring/control   gnome-keyring-daemon.socket 
gnome-keyring-daemon.service
/run/user/1000/pipewire-0pipewire.socket 
pipewire.service
/run/user/1000/pk-debconf-socket pk-debconf-helper.socket
pk-debconf-helper.service
/run/user/1000/pulse/native  pipewire-pulse.socket   
pipewire-pulse.service

11 sockets listed.
Pass --all to see loaded but inactive sockets, too.

and the desktop:

$ systemctl --user list-sockets
LISTENUNITACTIVATES 
  
/run/user/1000/busdbus.socket 
dbus.service
/run/user/1000/gcr/sshgcr-ssh-agent.socket
gcr-ssh-agent.service
/run/user/1000/gnupg/S.dirmngrdirmngr.socket  
dirmngr.service
/run/user/1000/gnupg/S.gpg-agent  gpg-agent.socket
gpg-agent.service
/run/user/1000/gnupg/S.gpg-agent.browser  gpg-agent-browser.socket
gpg-agent.service
/run/user/1000/gnupg/S.gpg-agent.extragpg-agent-extra.socket  
gpg-agent.service
/run/user/1000/gnupg/S.gpg-agent.ssh  gpg-agent-ssh.socket
gpg-agent.service
/run/user/1000/keyring/controlgnome-keyring-daemon.socket 
gnome-keyring-daemon.service
/run/user/1000/pipewire-0 pipewire.socket 
pipewire.service
/run/user/1000/pk-debconf-socket  pk-debconf-helper.socket
pk-debconf-helper.service
/run/user/1000/pulse/native   pipewire-pulse.socket   
pipewire-pulse.service
/run/user/1000/snapd-session-agent.socket snapd.session-agent.socket  
snapd.session-agent.service

12 sockets listed.
Pass --all to see loaded but inactive sockets, too.

On the desktop gnome-keyring-daemon has not been running for several hours.

> Check owner of $SSH_AUTH_SOCK using ss or lsof. It may give some clue what
> is really happening in your case.

On both systems that environment variable is:

$ echo $SSH_AUTH_SOCK
/run/user/1000/keyring/ssh

> I suggest you to add "f" option to "ps" to see process tree. It may help to
> find details concerning starting of particular agent.

At this point I know the agent will be working normally when I first log
into gnome-shell.  This has been a reliable way to get it started. I
posted to the GNOME discourse about this and was advised to open
separate issues in the keyring Gitlab repository.  They are:

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-keyring/-/issues/135
"gnome-keyring-daemon shutting down on Debian 12 shortly after logging
into GNOME Shell "

https://gitlab.gnome.org/GNOME/gnome-keyring/-/issues/136
"gnome-keyring-daemon fails to restart properly on Debian 12 "

Last night I did some testing with gdb and put my results in issue #135.
In this case the daemon crashed when I logged out of another system,
well short of the hour it will run if left idle.

- Nate

-- 
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
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qtcreator: no qml utility

[Petric Frank]

Hello,

on Debian 12 (Plasma Desktop) i've installed qtcreator from Debian repository.

In the settings of qtcreator the qt 5.15.8 is listed as Qt version. But with a
exclamation mark. Below i see "no QML utility installed".

But if i execute on cmdline

  qml -v

the output is

  Qml Runtime 5.15.8

"which qml" says /usr/bin/qml

This packages are installed:

  apt install qtcreator qml build-essential qtbase5-dev qt5-qmake cmake



Why qtcreator does not detect the qml utility ?
What is missing ?

kind regards
  Petric

Re: Fixed the ethernet problem and know I have no sound!

[Maureen L Thomas]

So I installed pavucontrol and I now have sound.  Both the controls are 
set to 100% so I am good to go.


Thank you Marco for your help.


On 9/4/23 1:37 AM, Marco wrote:

Am 03.09.2023 um 22:00:02 Uhr schrieb Maureen L Thomas:


I could use some help with this one.

Does pavucontrol see your soundcard?
Check the volume levels.
Maybe there are multiple sound cards (e.g. graphics card with HDMI or
DP, USB headsets). Make sure the application plays the sound on the
device where you want it.

Re: Fixed the ethernet problem and know I have no sound!

[Marco]

Am 03.09.2023 um 22:00:02 Uhr schrieb Maureen L Thomas:

> I could use some help with this one.

Does pavucontrol see your soundcard?
Check the volume levels.
Maybe there are multiple sound cards (e.g. graphics card with HDMI or
DP, USB headsets). Make sure the application plays the sound on the
device where you want it.

Fixed the ethernet problem and know I have no sound!

[Maureen L Thomas]

I use an all in one Lonova computer.  I have the latest Bookworm 
installed and had my wired connection kept shutting itself off.  I 
looked it up on the net and yesterday I installed ethtool and today I 
have my wired connection working but no sound.  I did find all my 
settings as they have been which is on.  I did lspic and found this 
information:


00:1f.3 Audio device: Intel Corporation 200 Series PCH HD Audio

DeviceName: Onboard - Sound

Subsystem: Lenovo 200 Series PCH HD Audio

Flags: bus master, fast devsel, latency 32, IRQ 129, IOMMU group 7

Memory at df22 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=16K]

Memory at df20 (64-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=64K]

Capabilities: [50] Power Management version 3

Capabilities: [60] MSI: Enable+ Count=1/1 Maskable- 64bit+

Kernel driver in use: snd_hda_intel

Kernel modules: snd_hda_intel


I could use some help with this one.

Granny Moe

Re: [IMPORTANT] Debian images no longer works for GPU driver installation with apt update

[Andrew M.A. Cater]

On Tue, Aug 29, 2023 at 10:53:35AM -0700, Wenyan Hu wrote:
> Hi Team,
> 
> Google's GPU driver installation no longer works for Debian images since
> 08/23/2023.
> 
> Google is using
> https://cloud.google.com/compute/docs/gpus/install-drivers-gpu#installation_scripts
> to
> install GPU drivers on Debian images. It executes scripts as
> https://raw.githubusercontent.com/GoogleCloudPlatform/compute-gpu-installation/main/linux/install_gpu_driver.py
> .
> 

Maybe take that up with Google - their script and their engineers to fix?

> Now for the latest images, if running scripts as below:
> 
> ```
> $ apt-cache search linux-headers | grep -i $(uname -r)
> $ apt update
> $apt install -y linux-headers-5.10.0-24-cloud-amd64
> software-properties-common pciutils gcc make dkms
> ```
> After running `apt update`, we find the package
> linux-headers-5.10.0-24-cloud-amd64 no longer exists, which results in the
> `apt install linux-headers-5.10.0-24-cloud-amd64` failure.
> 

apt update and then apt upgrade, maybe, to bring the system up to date
rather than just updating the list of available packages?

> It seems after the `apt update`, the index somehow no longer points to
> linux-headers-5.10.0-23-cloud-amd64 and linux-headers-5.10.0-24-cloud-amd64.
> 
> I know it would work if we (1) not do `apt update`, or (2) install newer
> kernel packages.

If you *only* do apt update, nothing has changed.

> But for (1), the apt update is required for our other package
> installations, (2) the kernel package update needs VM rebooting.
> 

This is always likely to be the case: if you do a kernel package update
you *should* reboot to the new kernel, since this is likely to have fixed
security or other problems.

> It is now blocking my team's image release and product functionality
> because we need the GPU driver installation without VM rebooting.
> 

As above, you will need to reboot the VM eventually.

> Could you please prioritize the issue and provide some tips or support?
> 

This is an end user support and information list: we can't provide an
immediate fix to the issue. I would have suggested the debian cloud image
team if I hadn't already suggested taking this up with Google.

> Thanks,
> Wenyan

With every good wish,

Andy Cater

Re: Debian images no longer works for GPU driver installation with apt update

[Michael Kjörling]

On 29 Aug 2023 10:53 -0700, from wen...@google.com (Wenyan Hu):
> Hi Team,

You're in the wrong place. This is a mailing list for Debian _users_
willing to help each other out. Some subscribers might be officially
involved with the Debian project in various capacities, but that's not
the primary purpose of the debian-user mailing list.


> $ apt-cache search linux-headers | grep -i $(uname -r)
> $ apt update
> $apt install -y linux-headers-5.10.0-24-cloud-amd64

It looks like you might be relying on package versions being the same
before and after running apt update. That is an invalid assumption.


> Could you please prioritize the issue and provide some tips or support?

If something within the Debian distribution is broken, see
https://www.debian.org/Bugs/ for how to file a bug report.

However, that your script is apparently expecting a specific version
of a kernel package, or making assumptions about what changes happen
as part of an apt{,-get} update, hardly seems to me as though
something in Debian is broken. That seems more likely to be a problem
with assumptions made in your script. Kernel packages are upgraded
regularly in this manner.

See also http://www.catb.org/esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#urgent

-- 
Michael Kjörling 🔗 https://michael.kjorling.se
“Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

[IMPORTANT] Debian images no longer works for GPU driver installation with apt update

[Wenyan Hu]

Hi Team,

Google's GPU driver installation no longer works for Debian images since
08/23/2023.

Google is using
https://cloud.google.com/compute/docs/gpus/install-drivers-gpu#installation_scripts
to
install GPU drivers on Debian images. It executes scripts as
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/GoogleCloudPlatform/compute-gpu-installation/main/linux/install_gpu_driver.py
.

Now for the latest images, if running scripts as below:

```
$ apt-cache search linux-headers | grep -i $(uname -r)
$ apt update
$apt install -y linux-headers-5.10.0-24-cloud-amd64
software-properties-common pciutils gcc make dkms
```
After running `apt update`, we find the package
linux-headers-5.10.0-24-cloud-amd64 no longer exists, which results in the
`apt install linux-headers-5.10.0-24-cloud-amd64` failure.

It seems after the `apt update`, the index somehow no longer points to
linux-headers-5.10.0-23-cloud-amd64 and linux-headers-5.10.0-24-cloud-amd64.

I know it would work if we (1) not do `apt update`, or (2) install newer
kernel packages.
But for (1), the apt update is required for our other package
installations, (2) the kernel package update needs VM rebooting.

It is now blocking my team's image release and product functionality
because we need the GPU driver installation without VM rebooting.

Could you please prioritize the issue and provide some tips or support?

Thanks,
Wenyan

Re: No korganizer, kmix, akregator icon in the task bar (but yes for kwrite...)

[Carles Pina i Estany]

Hi,

Answering myself...

On 22 Aug 2023 at 16:50:15, Carles Pina i Estany wrote:


> Bookworm here, but the same issues (at least for korganizer) happened on
> bullseye.

[...]

> I use LXDE with some KDE applications. Some applications such as
> korganizer, kmix, akregator: in the task bar I have a generic LXDE icon
> (or the top-left icon if I have the application visible)
> 
> Other applications such as kcalc, kwrite or kate have the icons as
> expected.

The apps where the icon is displayed have calls such as:

app.setWindowIcon(QIcon::fromTheme(QStringLiteral("accessories-calculator"), 
app.windowIcon()));

or:

QApplication::setWindowIcon(QIcon(QStringLiteral(":/kwrite/kwrite.svg")));

The ones without the application icons... do not have this calls to set
it up.

I'll investigate a bit more and report to upstream.

Cheers,

-- 
Carles Pina i Estany
https://carles.pina.cat || Wiktionary translations: https://kamus.pina.cat

No korganizer, kmix, akregator icon in the task bar (but yes for kwrite...)

[Carles Pina i Estany]

Hi,

Bookworm here, but the same issues (at least for korganizer) happened on
bullseye.

I'd like to ask something so I either open a bug or investigate more in
my system (or in case that anyone knows more, if someone has fixed it).

I use LXDE with some KDE applications. Some applications such as
korganizer, kmix, akregator: in the task bar I have a generic LXDE icon
(or the top-left icon if I have the application visible)

Other applications such as kcalc, kwrite or kate have the icons as
expected.

I guess that it's my problem (but it actually happens in two computers)
but I'd like to confirm it. Can, some of you, see the icons for
korganizer, akregator, in the task bar? With window manager (or panel)?

I'll investigate more but any information (works here, doesn't there)
for a couple of people might help me.

Thank you very much,

-- 
Carles Pina i Estany
https://carles.pina.cat || Wiktionary translations: https://kamus.pina.cat

Re: Nvidia 390 driver no longer available for Bookworm; nouveau constantly freezes. Solutions?

[Alexander V. Makartsev]

On 17.08.2023 20:48, Luiz Romário Santana Rios wrote:


Hello, all,

(Please cc me when replying, I'm not subscribed to the mailing list)

I have (according do lspci) a NVIDIA Corporation GK208B [GeForce GT 
710] (rev a1) graphics card. The correct proprietary driver for this 
card seems to be the Nvidia 390 series.


When Bookworm came out, I was running Bullseye with this driver and 
never really had any graphical issues that I can remember. Upon 
upgrading to Bullseye, I eventually found out this driver was no 
longer available and I was stuck with nouveau. I was recommended the 
tesla 470 driver during the upgrade, but I never got it to work.


According to Nvidia's official website GT 710 is supported up to 470 
version. [1]
I've never tried to install "tesla" flavor of nvidia-driver, so I can't 
suggest anything about it.
When I needed a specific version I always build a simple backport [2] 
from "testing" repo, so I'd try to do the same for a 470.199.02 version, 
which is now available from "oldstable-proposed-updates" repo.
You can also try the official package from Nvidia website, at least to 
test if 470 version works and solves your issue with freezing.


The nouveau driver would be fine, since I don't do anything 
graphics-intensive like gaming and I get the bonus of being able to 
run Wayland, which is cool. Except that I started noticing constant 
freezes for no apparent reason. They usually take a few hours to 
happen, sometimes I can spend a day or maybe two without freezes, but 
they _keep happening_. I'm gonna spare you of the details of the 
effort I spent trying to investigate this problem, but what I found 
out is:


  * It happens in any of the kernels I have installed: 6.1, 6.0, 5.11, 4.9
  * It happens in Plasma, and it doesn't matter if I'm running X11 or
Wayland
  * It _seems_ not to happen under GNOME Wayland, but I think it
happens under GNOME X11
  * It appears to be related with screen sharing, because:
  o When I was using Plasma, I had the impression that the
graphics froze way more often when I was sharing my screen
  o Screen sharing doesn't work on GNOME Wayland (maybe related to
why it didn't freeze yet)
  o The one time where I tried to use GNOME X11, it froze
immediately after I tried to share my screen
  * The kernel logs seem to indicate some missing firmware right
before the graphics card freezes (and indeed some firmware is missing)

I had issues very similar to your description. Even made a bug report 
[3] about it.
I don't have any instability or "freezing" issues with recent kernel and 
driver versions, but I've also disabled hardware acceleration for my 
browser as a workaround and haven't actually checked if the issue is gone.
Somehow it was all tied to video hardware acceleration and DE 
Compositor, which I kept disabled. I was able to repro the issue quite 
reliably, back then.
I've thought this workaround was better than downgrading driver version 
to 416 and stick to it forever.
Now I've upgraded system to Bookworm, and use 525.105.17 version, 
delaying update to an up-to-date version from stable, and haven't seen 
"Xid" errors or "freezes" for many months, Compositor is enabled, games 
and movies play without any issues.


Screen sharing is essential for me to work, so this is really not a 
great situation to be in. For comparison, my laptop, which was also 
updated to Bookworm in the same day I updated this PC, had none of the 
problems I'm describing here, since it has an integrated intel 
graphics card.


I appreciate that Nvidia cards can be very problematic and that the 
one card I own is really old, but I didn't have this problem until 
updating and I know this card can work just fine with the right 
driver. Unfortunately, right now, nouveau is not adequate for me to 
work, but the driver that does work is not officially available. What 
should I do?


  * Should I try updating to a newer kernel to see if nouveau got fixed?

I haven't checked, but I think nouveau didn't had a commit in years. It 
is an abandon-ware for me.



  * Should I try installing the missing firmware?


I'd try that, at least to see if it solves the issue.
Keep in mind, non-free firmware was separated to another repo in 
Bookworm. [4]



[1] https://www.nvidia.com/Download/driverResults.aspx/205995/en-us/
[2] https://wiki.debian.org/SimpleBackportCreation
[3] https://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=1016542
[4] https://wiki.debian.org/SourcesList

--
With kindest regards, Alexander.

⢀⣴⠾⠻⢶⣦⠀
⣾⠁⢠⠒⠀⣿⡁ Debian - The universal operating system
⢿⡄⠘⠷⠚⠋⠀ https://www.debian.org
⠈⠳⣄

Nvidia 390 driver no longer available for Bookworm; nouveau constantly freezes. Solutions?

[Luiz Romário Santana Rios]

Hello, all,

(Please cc me when replying, I'm not subscribed to the mailing list)

I have (according do lspci) a NVIDIA Corporation GK208B [GeForce GT 710] 
(rev a1) graphics card. The correct proprietary driver for this card 
seems to be the Nvidia 390 series.


When Bookworm came out, I was running Bullseye with this driver and 
never really had any graphical issues that I can remember. Upon 
upgrading to Bullseye, I eventually found out this driver was no longer 
available and I was stuck with nouveau. I was recommended the tesla 470 
driver during the upgrade, but I never got it to work.


The nouveau driver would be fine, since I don't do anything 
graphics-intensive like gaming and I get the bonus of being able to run 
Wayland, which is cool. Except that I started noticing constant freezes 
for no apparent reason. They usually take a few hours to happen, 
sometimes I can spend a day or maybe two without freezes, but they _keep 
happening_. I'm gonna spare you of the details of the effort I spent 
trying to investigate this problem, but what I found out is:


 * It happens in any of the kernels I have installed: 6.1, 6.0, 5.11, 4.9
 * It happens in Plasma, and it doesn't matter if I'm running X11 or
   Wayland
 * It _seems_ not to happen under GNOME Wayland, but I think it happens
   under GNOME X11
 * It appears to be related with screen sharing, because:
 o When I was using Plasma, I had the impression that the graphics
   froze way more often when I was sharing my screen
 o Screen sharing doesn't work on GNOME Wayland (maybe related to
   why it didn't freeze yet)
 o The one time where I tried to use GNOME X11, it froze
   immediately after I tried to share my screen
 * The kernel logs seem to indicate some missing firmware right before
   the graphics card freezes (and indeed some firmware is missing)

Screen sharing is essential for me to work, so this is really not a 
great situation to be in. For comparison, my laptop, which was also 
updated to Bookworm in the same day I updated this PC, had none of the 
problems I'm describing here, since it has an integrated intel graphics 
card.


I appreciate that Nvidia cards can be very problematic and that the one 
card I own is really old, but I didn't have this problem until updating 
and I know this card can work just fine with the right driver. 
Unfortunately, right now, nouveau is not adequate for me to work, but 
the driver that does work is not officially available. What should I do?


 * Should I try updating to a newer kernel to see if nouveau got fixed?
 * What it I try installing the 390 driver from Bullseye in my Bookworm
   installation? Would that cause any problems?
 * Should I try installing the missing firmware?
 * Any other ideas?

Thank you for the help!

Re: Upgrade to Bookworm, now GNOME keyring dies--no access to stored SSH key passwords

[Max Nikulin]

On 14/08/2023 07:30, Nate Bargmann wrote:

I have been using the GNOME keyring applet to manage the SSH public key
passwords I use as it prompts to save passwords and then lets me SSH to
other hosts without out a password prompt.


I do not know how it is arranged in Gnome, but I hope my observations 
still might be helpful.



systems on my LAN and was greeted with a password prompt for the
corresponding public key


To be precise, it is the passphrase do decrypt your *private* key. A 
public key may be known to anybody. Private key is a secret that allows 
to prove that you have it without disclosing of this private key. 
Encryption using a passphrase is a means to mitigate consequences if the 
private key is stolen.


An ssh agent opens a socket and exposes its location through an 
environment variable (perhaps using "systemctl set-environment", but I 
am not sure). Try


env | grep SSH

There are multiple implementations of SSH agents: openssh, gpg, 
keepassxc(?), perhaps gnome has more (seahorse? I am unsure concerning 
the role of secrets service). It may happen that in your case multiple 
instances are running:


/usr/lib/systemd/user/ssh-agent.service
/usr/lib/systemd/user/gpg-agent-ssh.socket
/etc/X11/Xsession.d/90x11-common_ssh-agent

GUI prompt may be just a proxy to an actual ssh agent. It just listens 
its socket and displaying a password prompt on demand and passing other 
messages literally.



Now, while typing this email all keyring PIDs have vanished!


It may be a way to minimize RAM usage. The agent may be a 
socket-activated process.


systemctl --user list-sockets

Check owner of $SSH_AUTH_SOCK using ss or lsof. It may give some clue 
what is really happening in your case.


I suggest you to add "f" option to "ps" to see process tree. It may help 
to find details concerning starting of particular agent.


   ps xwwf

P.S. At certain moment gnome designers decided that password prompt must 
be a modal dialog completely blocking interaction with any other 
applications (including 3rd party password manager). For me it was 
another reason to avoid gnome. I am aware that X11 protocol allows to 
sniff keyboard events and a measure against it is grabbing input. 
However I believe mouse still may be a way to call an external password 
manager. After all, there are may be an option to temporary suspend 
keyboard grabbing. I learned about multiple ways to start a ssh agent 
during initialization of user session when I was trying to figure out 
which way GUI prompt is implemented and if a more flexible dialog could 
be used instead.

Upgrade to Bookworm, now GNOME keyring dies--no access to stored SSH key passwords

[Nate Bargmann]

I now have two desktop systems running Bookworm with GNOME.  The laptop
was upgraded last month and I upgraded the desktop this afternoon.  I
have been using the GNOME keyring applet to manage the SSH public key
passwords I use as it prompts to save passwords and then lets me SSH to
other hosts without out a password prompt.

Some time after the upgrade I wanted to SSH into one of the other
systems on my LAN and was greeted with a password prompt for the
corresponding public key that had prior been managed by the keyring
applet.  I noted differences in the running processes between the laptop
where the keyring applet is still working and the desktop where it was
not.

On an off-chance I cold booted this system and found the keyring applet
was working as expected so I went on doing other things for a while.
Then I tried again and was prompted for the public key's password.
Uggh.

Right after rebooting the process list looked like this which mirrors
the laptop:

$ ps ax -u nate | grep "agent\|keyring"
   2037 ?SLsl   0:00 /usr/bin/gnome-keyring-daemon --foreground 
--components=pkcs11,secrets --control-directory=/run/user/1000/keyring
   2151 ?Ssl0:00 /usr/libexec/gcr-ssh-agent /run/user/1000/gcr
   2157 ?Ss 0:00 ssh-agent -D -a /run/user/1000/openssh_agent
   3802 ?S  0:00 /usr/bin/ssh-agent -D -a 
/run/user/1000/keyring/.ssh
   3922 pts/0S+ 0:00 grep --color=auto agent\|keyring

When I began this mail things looked like this:

$ ps ax -u nate | grep "agent\|keyring"
   2151 ?Ssl0:00 /usr/libexec/gcr-ssh-agent /run/user/1000/gcr
   2157 ?Ss 0:00 ssh-agent -D -a /run/user/1000/openssh_agent
  12324 ?Sl 0:00 /usr/bin/gnome-keyring-daemon --start --foreground 
--components=secrets
  12325 ?Ssl0:00 /usr/bin/gnome-keyring-daemon --foreground 
--components=pkcs11,secrets --control-directory=/run/user/1000/keyring
  19308 pts/0S+ 0:00 grep --color=auto agent\|keyring

It appears to me that gnome-keyring-daemon has been restarted for some reason.
As a result PIDs 2037 and 3802 are terminated and also
/run/user/1000/keyring/.ssh is no longer present along with the pkcs11 and ssh
files in the same directory.

I don't see anything out of the ordinary, in fact, these packages are
the same on the desktop and laptop systems:

debian-archive-keyring/stable,stable,now 2023.3 all [installed,automatic]
fasttrack-archive-keyring/stable,stable,now 2020.12.19 all [installed]
gnome-keyring-pkcs11/stable,now 42.1-1+b2 amd64 [installed,automatic]
gnome-keyring/stable,now 42.1-1+b2 amd64 [installed,automatic]
gpg-agent/stable,now 2.2.40-1.1 amd64 [installed,automatic]
libpam-gnome-keyring/stable,now 42.1-1+b2 amd64 [installed,automatic]
libpolkit-agent-1-0/stable,now 122-3 amd64 [installed,automatic]

Now, while typing this email all keyring PIDs have vanished!

$ ps ax -u nate | grep "agent\|keyring"
   2151 ?Ssl0:00 /usr/libexec/gcr-ssh-agent /run/user/1000/gcr
   2157 ?Ss 0:00 ssh-agent -D -a /run/user/1000/openssh_agent
  22418 pts/0S+ 0:00 grep --color=auto agent\|keyring

I am flummoxed.

TIA

- Nate

-- 
"The optimist proclaims that we live in the best of all
possible worlds.  The pessimist fears this is true."
Web: https://www.n0nb.us
Projects: https://github.com/N0NB
GPG fingerprint: 82D6 4F6B 0E67 CD41 F689 BBA6 FB2C 5130 D55A 8819



signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: Was: setting up network q, now no x

[gene heskett]

On 8/12/23 19:07, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Sat, Aug 12, 2023 at 06:37:30PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:

I need X running so I can use firefox to go get and build the rest of the
software I am building this thing to run.


Then why on earth are you installing a full Desktop Environment?

If you need to use Firefox to obtain files and then compile them, then
what you need are xorg, firefox-esr, build-essential, and some kind of
simple window manager.  twm would suffice, or fvwm, or whatever you're
comfortable with.  Hell, in theory you could skip the window manager and
just run "startx firefox" or something.  You'd be limited to a single
browser window, but that's not a crippling limitation.


Today I'll copy off the net changes, rewrite its sd card with the iso 
and restore the net changes b4 putting the sd card back in the bpi. From 
there I'll install ff, nginx, build-essential, + dhelper maybe and see 
if that pulls in what it needs thru those deps.  Unless you know an even 
better way. build-essential will likely be needed for kiauh.



Or, as an alternative, you could obtain the files from another machine,
and copy them over.  Then you only need build-essential, and NONE of the
rest.

This kit of utils to run a printer is far superior to octoprint, 
installed and maintained by kiauh, needs a full time X and FF to control 
the printer. It a 2-way web server using nginx to run the printer and 
display it. From that install, I can watch the printer and control it, 
from anyplace on my local net. The default browser armbian uses is 
chromium, but chromium has hijacked port 80 for google adv bs so 
chromium doesn't work but FF.esr does. https to 8080 works, http to 80 
doesn't. Googles hunger for your data knows no limits. We need another 
Judge Green.



(For a given value of "build", of course.  You may need other development
tools beyond build-essential, but we can't advise you on that without more
information.)



Maybe this helps...


I would absolutely NOT install GNOME unless you need it for something
more than just launching a web browser.

.

Pulling in nearly 800 pkgs triple underscores that point.
synaptic must also run.

Thanks Greg.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>

Re: Was: setting up network q, now no x

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sat, Aug 12, 2023 at 06:37:30PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> I need X running so I can use firefox to go get and build the rest of the
> software I am building this thing to run.

Then why on earth are you installing a full Desktop Environment?

If you need to use Firefox to obtain files and then compile them, then
what you need are xorg, firefox-esr, build-essential, and some kind of
simple window manager.  twm would suffice, or fvwm, or whatever you're
comfortable with.  Hell, in theory you could skip the window manager and
just run "startx firefox" or something.  You'd be limited to a single
browser window, but that's not a crippling limitation.

Or, as an alternative, you could obtain the files from another machine,
and copy them over.  Then you only need build-essential, and NONE of the
rest.

(For a given value of "build", of course.  You may need other development
tools beyond build-essential, but we can't advise you on that without more
information.)

I would absolutely NOT install GNOME unless you need it for something
more than just launching a web browser.

Was: setting up network q, now no x

[gene heskett]

On 8/12/23 17:32, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Sat, Aug 12, 2023 at 04:01:49PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:

Step one: determine the NAME of your ethernet interface.


eth0



Step two: edit /etc/network/interfaces to bring up this interface with
your desired IP address, netmask, and gateway.  If there's a running
DHCP client daemon (because the installer set it up for DHCP instead
of static addressing), you may need to kill that daemon.  Or, if you're
especially clever, you can bring the interface DOWN, BEFORE editing
the file, which will kill the daemon cleanly.  Most people forget this
step, so they just end up killing the daemon later, with "kill" or
by rebooting.


interface had lo already
added
iface eth0 inet static
address 192.168.71.55
gateway 192.168.71.2

correct? editor saved to do resolv.conf next


You're missing "auto eth0".

No, I just didn't show it, auto is valid for whatever comes later, so 
"auto lo eth0" is as good as it gets.  And I've no clue where the 1 
turned into a 2. its 1 and works.



Are you sure your router's address ends with .2?  Usually networks are
set up with the router at .1.  It's not required, of course.  But it's
unusual for it not to be.


That daemons name?


How the heck would we know?  You're not running Debian.

ps -ef | grep -i dhc

That should cover variants of names like "dhclient" or "dhcpcd".  I guess
"pump" is also a possibility, but I don't think anyone has used pump in
many years.

Or you could just reboot to ensure it dies.


It's good over several reboots.

Now the problem is no X.  I used apt to install gnome which was nearly 
800 packages of gnome, & which failed majorly on mcollective and its 
pluggins (whatever the heck that is, no man pages for it and apt cannot 
now remove them either,) the underlying dpkg is having a cow.  Of the 
top pkg managers, only aptitude will run but that thing has totally 
destroyed my system 4 times over the last decade and change by not 
showing me what it was going to do first. So I don't trust aptitude to 
take the period off the end of a sentence.


Apparently x11 has been totally replaced by xwayland, and xwayland will 
not allow a package manager to run as root. There is probably a 
workaround I'm not acquainted with, so I'm DIW and sinking.


I have another bpi running this same jammy and have had no such problems.

Thanks Greg.

I need X running so I can use firefox to go get and build the rest of 
the software I am building this thing to run.


Next?

.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>

Re: logging no longer standard?

[Max Nikulin]

On 10/08/2023 16:53, gene heskett wrote:

On 8/9/23 21:15, Max Nikulin wrote:

On 08/08/2023 09:57, gene heskett wrote:
dbus-update-activation-environment: error: unable to connect to 
D-Bus: Failed to connect to socket /run/user/1000/bus: Connection 
refused

...
Try to figure out at which moment such messages appear. Try "busctl 
--user" and "busctl --user status" as a sanity check.


Both of those get somewhat copious outputs, what should I be looking 
for?  Should it name the app?


You can compare usual output of the commands and their output just after 
the error message appears. You may get some impression of features 
exposed through D-Bus.



Looking in /etc/dbus-1, I see two dirs, one of which is empty:


What do you expect to find there? Packages put files into 
/usr/share/dbus-1. Systemd units may tell that they may be activated 
through D-Bus. Applications may express in .desktop files that they 
should handle arguments through D-Bus and Exec=... should be ignored.


dbus has always been a puzzle to me. It has no man pages to explain its 
functions.


There are a lot of docs for particular D-Bus APIs, e.g.
https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/org.freedesktop.hostname1.html

If you are looking for some overview and introduction then starting 
points may be

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D-Bus
and docs linked from
https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/Software/dbus/
e.g.
https://www.freedesktop.org/wiki/IntroductionToDBus/

The point is that if some application can not connect to D-Bus then 
arbitrary features may be broken. However your error is either extremely 
severe since session D-Bus is not running at all or it is almost 
harmless since it appears due to some race on login or logout.

Re: logging no longer standard?

[gene heskett]

On 8/9/23 21:24, Max Nikulin wrote:

On 08/08/2023 19:07, gene heskett wrote:
digikam for example, does report what I assume is the package name, 
just running it, reports a couple screens full of Exiv2 errors, but 
Exiv2 is installed.


I have an impression that properly built AppImage should come with all 
necessary libraries included and should not rely on packages installed 
in the system.


We also think about AppImages as complete, satisfying ALL their own 
dependencies. No disagreement there. I do see them as huge storage 
resource hogs, but at the same time papers over individual system 
differences IF done right. FWIW, the repo version of digikam also 
suffers the can't write to local storage problem, but its supposedly a 
known bug in 7.9 that has since been fixed ack the digikam folks, but 
their AppImage builds for version 8.2 still don't work /here/.
That leaves the fact that /home is a raid here, but surely I am not the 
only one on the planet doing that.


Your camera and EXIF parsing library may have different notion on EXIF 
tags format and allowed values. You may discuss whether the errors are 
critical with developers or packagers of the applications and to filter 
out these errors otherwise.


Throw in that we have no control over the camera maker, in all cases 
here they are well known, reputable makers of at least 3 cameras that 
have saved pix in that tree, plus probably a thou or more of pix saved 
from the net in there, I guess its up to us to configure this stuff so 
it works.  Is there a tut describing how someplace?


cuda is also named in the errors, and none of its dozen or so variations 
is installed.  Which one to install?


Thank you Max.


.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>

Re: logging no longer standard?

[gene heskett]

On 8/9/23 21:15, Max Nikulin wrote:

On 08/08/2023 09:57, gene heskett wrote:

Xsession: X session started for gene at Tue 27 Jun 2023 02:58:23 PM EDT

   ^^^
dbus-update-activation-environment: error: unable to connect to D-Bus: 
Failed to connect to socket /run/user/1000/bus: Connection refused


What fixes that?


These messages might be old, but they might mean that you broke D-Bus. 
Applications, especially self-containing packages, may heavily rely on 
its availability.


Try to figure out at which moment such messages appear. Try "busctl 
--user" and "busctl --user status" as a sanity check.


Both of those get somewhat copious outputs, what should I be looking 
for?  Should it name the app?



Looking in /etc/dbus-1, I see two dirs, one of which is empty:

gene@coyote:/etc/dbus-1$ ls -R
.:
session.d  system.d

./session.d:

./system.d:
bluetooth.conf 
com.ubuntu.SoftwareProperties.conf  org.freedesktop.DisplayManager.conf 
org.freedesktop.ModemManager1.conf  org.opensuse.CupsPkHelper.Mechanism.conf
com.redhat.NewPrinterNotification.conf   dnsmasq.conf 
org.freedesktop.GeoClue2.Agent.conf 
org.freedesktop.PackageKit.conf sddm_org.freedesktop.DisplayManager.conf
com.redhat.PrinterDriversInstaller.conf  net.hadess.SensorProxy.conf 
org.freedesktop.GeoClue2.conforg.freedesktop.realmd.conf 
 wpa_supplicant.conf


dbus has always been a puzzle to me. It has no man pages to explain its 
functions. Do you want to see the outputs of busctl?  Under what conditions?


I see busctl does have a man page. Pretty complex. What should I check next?

Thanks Max.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>

Re: logging no longer standard?

[Max Nikulin]

On 08/08/2023 19:07, gene heskett wrote:
digikam for example, does report what I assume is the package name, just 
running it, reports a couple screens full of Exiv2 errors, but Exiv2 is 
installed.


I have an impression that properly built AppImage should come with all 
necessary libraries included and should not rely on packages installed 
in the system.


Your camera and EXIF parsing library may have different notion on EXIF 
tags format and allowed values. You may discuss whether the errors are 
critical with developers or packagers of the applications and to filter 
out these errors otherwise.

Re: logging no longer standard?

[Max Nikulin]

On 08/08/2023 09:57, gene heskett wrote:

Xsession: X session started for gene at Tue 27 Jun 2023 02:58:23 PM EDT

  ^^^
dbus-update-activation-environment: error: unable to connect to D-Bus: 
Failed to connect to socket /run/user/1000/bus: Connection refused


What fixes that?


These messages might be old, but they might mean that you broke D-Bus. 
Applications, especially self-containing packages, may heavily rely on 
its availability.


Try to figure out at which moment such messages appear. Try "busctl 
--user" and "busctl --user status" as a sanity check.

Re: logging no longer standard?

[gene heskett]

On 8/9/23 10:47, debian-u...@howorth.org.uk wrote:

gene heskett  wrote:

Someplace where an AppImage looking for a missing dependency might
express its displeasure at not finding everything it needs?


I've always thought that was a main advantage of starting anything from
the command line - there's an obvious place for the output - the
terminal.

.
And much of the time, the errors reported there seem to reference 
something that does not hit a search in synaptic. I've posted several 
kilobytes of that w/o getting a helpful comment.  Something along the 
lines of "oh, that's part of pkg so and so would be most helpful.


I'd say thank you if I had a name.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: logging no longer standard?

[debian-user]

gene heskett  wrote:
> Someplace where an AppImage looking for a missing dependency might
> express its displeasure at not finding everything it needs?

I've always thought that was a main advantage of starting anything from
the command line - there's an obvious place for the output - the
terminal.

Re: logging no longer standard?

[songbird]

gene heskett wrote:
>songbird wrote:
... 
>>man journald.conf...
>
> I've looked at that, even looked at the file.  It is all systemd 
> related, no mention of user stuffs.  Its as if a 3 meter tall board 
> fence has been built around the systemd stuff that user apps can't get thru.

  no, i was just pointing out that i find the combined logs 
of systemd a lot easier to deal with as root instead of trying
to look at them as a user and having them broken apart.  for a
simple system that i run it makes little sense to complicate
things by having separate logs in systemd journal.


> Glaringly missing is anything related to something the user might want 
> to do.  So where is an equal facility for user stuffs?  Someplace where 
> an AppImage looking for a missing dependency might express its 
> displeasure at not finding everything it needs?

  i'm light years behind App[Anything].  once you mix up
what a system is doing then that adds yet more complexity
which like i mentioned above i tend to not do if i can 
help it.

  IMO once you've started installing things from a vendor's
repository you've then got to figure out how that integrates
or not with your package management system.  the most of
that which i do here is in Python and i use virtual 
environments to try to isolate the problem children to where
i hope they won't mess up the rest of my Python install.  so
far that seems to be working as intended.

  i'm sorry i can't help much...


  songbird

Re: logging no longer standard?

[tomas]

On Tue, Aug 08, 2023 at 10:33:04AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> On 8/8/23 00:51, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

[...]

> > See, if you "do" AppImages you are multiplying your system's complexity.

[...]

> And that's sad, Tomas.  The current, nominally 7 day old AppImage of
> OpenSCAD can load and render a complex gfx design in seconds [...]

It may be, but that's how things are in life: you can chose between
solid, stable and tested *and* playing well with the rest of the
system -- or new & shiny, with the latest bells, whistles and the
occasional built in fireworks. The latter is called "bleeding edge"
for a reason.

Engineering tradeoffs and that.

[I skimmed the rest of your post but decided to leave it at that:
I can't deal with that many things at once]

Cheers
-- 
t


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: logging no longer standard?

[gene heskett]

On 8/8/23 00:51, to...@tuxteam.de wrote:

On Mon, Aug 07, 2023 at 05:32:03PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:

[...]


Ohhhkaaay, but why then do I get a message if looking at the journal as user
1000, that the user must be a member of the adm group to see all the log,


...unless you use sudo.


AND adding me to the adm group doesn't change what I can see using sudo?  I


As sudo you can see *all* (I don't know a lot about systemd's journal, but

I do some sysadmin for food, and the boxes at work do systemd, so the basic
knowledge is there. And the above belongs to the basic knowledge.

Now let's be scientific: what evidence makes you assume that there's anything
in the logs you are not shown?


see gigabytes of stuff from kwin etc, but nary a syllable from what isn't
working because something blocks it.


Perhaps "what isn't working" isn't logging to the syslogs at all? (this
hunch has come up elsewhere in this thread). Another possibility: it is
in the logs, but hidden under so much stuff that you don't see it.


And neither does grep.


See, if you "do" AppImages you are multiplying your system's complexity.
Each AppImage is like a little operating system (without the kernel) where
the application provider dictates the rules, not Debian (that's why I
avoid them like the plague).


And that's sad, Tomas.  The current, nominally 7 day old AppImage of 
OpenSCAD can load and render a complex gfx design in seconds. the repo 
version, dated from 2021, takes around an hour. You are missing out on 
some seriously improved code. ditto for cura and digikam. Running 
kiauh.sh at least weekly does the job of keeping klipper, mainsail and 
moonraker for 3d printing uptodate, its working great but is being 
developed daily. Klipper is learning how to drive a printer fast w/o 
making its frame ring like a bell, which you see as ripples in the 
surface of something printed after some feature of the print has changed 
the direction of the print heads travel. And because it is all web 
based, I can run that printer from a web browser on any other machine on 
my local net and watch the print being built in real time w/o a camera. 
All the heavy lifting is being done on an $85 bananapi. If and when I 
get done with the current rebuilds in progress, there will be 5 
bananapi's running a 5 printer farm.  There are already 4 other machines 
here running the master version of linuxcnc which will in time become 
linuxcnc v3.0.  If I don't miss roll call first. Parts are being made on 
one printer to fix the others.


Cheers


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: logging no longer standard?

[gene heskett]

On 8/7/23 23:17, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Mon, Aug 07, 2023 at 10:57:41PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:

On 8/7/23 22:08, Max Nikulin wrote:

I have no idea which way you may break journald and why you have not
just installed rsyslog yet if you trust it more and have a hope to find
there more info than in journalctl output. journalctl has a number
option for filtering: per unit, --system, --user, etc.


Show me anyplace in the man page where "--user" occurs, please. Its not
there in my man page.


unicorn:~$ man journalctl | grep -- --user
--user, --system, --directory, and --file options, see below.
--system, --user
Show messages from service of current user (with --user). If
The --user option affects how --unit arguments are treated. See
With --user, all --unit arguments will be converted to match user
messages as if specified with --user-unit.
--user-unit=
troff: :1187: warning [p 13, 6.3i]: can't break line

That's 7 instances in my man page, although some of those are apparently
part of "--user-unit".

Of course, all of this is a gigantic red herring.  If you have a problem
with something called an "AppImage", whatever the hell that is, the
details are not likely to show up in system logs.

If you don't like journalctl and related things, install rsyslog.  It
will take less than a minute, and then your system logging will be back
to normal.  You can read the files in /var/log/ just like always.

Meanwhile, you will need to find out where your "AppImage" thing is
actually logging, if indeed it does ANY kind of logging at ALL.  It's
probably not using syslog().  Ask people who use the thing in question.
Those people may or may not be on debian-user.

There are rather copius msgs output to the shell windows that launch 
them, Connecting those msgs to the name of a package to install to fix 
that, doesn't seem possible.  It will name a function call that reports 
the error, but not the package containing that function.


digikam for example, does report what I assume is the package name, just 
running it, reports a couple screens full of Exiv2 errors, but Exiv2 is 
installed. It cannot write to my raid. Shotwell just does it, but in a 
format digikam can't see, buried in a directory structure based on the 
date/time it was done. Less than helpful.


Thanks Greg.

Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>

Re: logging no longer standard?

[Henning Follmann]

On Mon, Aug 07, 2023 at 05:32:03PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> On 8/7/23 13:23, Henning Follmann wrote:
> > On Mon, Aug 07, 2023 at 09:41:11AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> > > On 8/7/23 07:50, Henning Follmann wrote:
> > > > On Sat, Aug 05, 2023 at 03:12:39PM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > > > On Sat, Aug 05, 2023 at 08:03:27PM +0100, Joe wrote:
> > > > > > On Sat, 5 Aug 2023 15:09:41 +
> > > > > > Andy Smith  wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > [...]
> > > > > In some cases, the release notes actually do tell you how to get back
> > > > > to normal.
> > > >err,
> > > > "how to get back."
> > > > Normal is the new systemd
> > > > 
> > [deleted rant novella]
> > 
> > Breathe!
> > 
> > Your issues are not solved by or caused by either of journald or rsyslog.
> > These are just writing what is given to them to somewhere.
> > If it is not in the log it's someone else's fault.
> > 
> > -H
> Ohhhkaaay, but why then do I get a message if looking at the journal as user
> 1000, that the user must be a member of the adm group to see all the log,
> AND adding me to the adm group doesn't change what I can see using sudo?  I
> see gigabytes of stuff from kwin etc, but nary a syllable from what isn't
> working because something blocks it.
> 
> Cheers, Gene Heskett.

I have no idea what is going on on your system. The history of this
mailing list is littered with threads where you do things the "Gene" way and
shooting yourself in the foot. I just assume it's another one.

I am out of this subthread.

-H


-- 
Henning Follmann   | hfollm...@itcfollmann.com

Re: logging no longer standard?

[tomas]

On Mon, Aug 07, 2023 at 05:32:03PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:

[...]

> Ohhhkaaay, but why then do I get a message if looking at the journal as user
> 1000, that the user must be a member of the adm group to see all the log,

...unless you use sudo.

> AND adding me to the adm group doesn't change what I can see using sudo?  I

As sudo you can see *all* (I don't know a lot about systemd's journal, but

I do some sysadmin for food, and the boxes at work do systemd, so the basic
knowledge is there. And the above belongs to the basic knowledge.

Now let's be scientific: what evidence makes you assume that there's anything
in the logs you are not shown?

> see gigabytes of stuff from kwin etc, but nary a syllable from what isn't
> working because something blocks it.

Perhaps "what isn't working" isn't logging to the syslogs at all? (this
hunch has come up elsewhere in this thread). Another possibility: it is
in the logs, but hidden under so much stuff that you don't see it.

See, if you "do" AppImages you are multiplying your system's complexity.
Each AppImage is like a little operating system (without the kernel) where
the application provider dictates the rules, not Debian (that's why I
avoid them like the plague).

Cheers
-- 
t


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: logging no longer standard?

[Greg Wooledge]

On Mon, Aug 07, 2023 at 10:57:41PM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> On 8/7/23 22:08, Max Nikulin wrote:
> > I have no idea which way you may break journald and why you have not
> > just installed rsyslog yet if you trust it more and have a hope to find
> > there more info than in journalctl output. journalctl has a number
> > option for filtering: per unit, --system, --user, etc.
> > 
> Show me anyplace in the man page where "--user" occurs, please. Its not
> there in my man page.

unicorn:~$ man journalctl | grep -- --user
   --user, --system, --directory, and --file options, see below.
   --system, --user
   Show messages from service of current user (with --user). If
   The --user option affects how --unit arguments are treated. See
   With --user, all --unit arguments will be converted to match user
   messages as if specified with --user-unit.
   --user-unit=
troff: :1187: warning [p 13, 6.3i]: can't break line

That's 7 instances in my man page, although some of those are apparently
part of "--user-unit".

Of course, all of this is a gigantic red herring.  If you have a problem
with something called an "AppImage", whatever the hell that is, the
details are not likely to show up in system logs.

If you don't like journalctl and related things, install rsyslog.  It
will take less than a minute, and then your system logging will be back
to normal.  You can read the files in /var/log/ just like always.

Meanwhile, you will need to find out where your "AppImage" thing is
actually logging, if indeed it does ANY kind of logging at ALL.  It's
probably not using syslog().  Ask people who use the thing in question.
Those people may or may not be on debian-user.

Re: logging no longer standard?

[gene heskett]

On 8/7/23 22:08, Max Nikulin wrote:

On 08/08/2023 00:35, gene heskett wrote:
There is not a way to have it start doing the trace when I click on 
the save to disk button.


Really? And certainly --attach/-p option is not a rescue.

Sending output to a file, filtering specific calls, increasing per line 
size limit are useless options as well.


I have no idea which way you may break journald and why you have not 
just installed rsyslog yet if you trust it more and have a hope to find 
there more info than in journalctl output. journalctl has a number 
option for filtering: per unit, --system, --user, etc.


Show me anyplace in the man page where "--user" occurs, please. Its not 
there in my man page.


However an AppImage may send nothing to the syslog or journald sockets. 
stderr might appear e.g. in ~/.xsession-errors


Hmmm... just a few lines since the last reboot. And might be a clue...

Xsession: X session started for gene at Tue 27 Jun 2023 02:58:23 PM EDT
WARNING: tempfile is deprecated; consider using mktemp instead.
dbus-update-activation-environment: error: unable to connect to D-Bus: 
Failed to connect to socket /run/user/1000/bus: Connection refused

localuser:gene being added to access control list
dbus-update-activation-environment: error: unable to connect to D-Bus: 
Failed to connect to socket /run/user/1000/bus: Connection refused
dbus-update-activation-environment: error: unable to connect to D-Bus: 
Failed to connect to socket /run/user/1000/bus: Connection refused


What fixes that?

And thank you Max.

.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>

Re: logging no longer standard?

[Max Nikulin]

On 08/08/2023 00:35, gene heskett wrote:
There is not a way to have it start doing the trace when I click on the 
save to disk button.


Really? And certainly --attach/-p option is not a rescue.

Sending output to a file, filtering specific calls, increasing per line 
size limit are useless options as well.


I have no idea which way you may break journald and why you have not 
just installed rsyslog yet if you trust it more and have a hope to find 
there more info than in journalctl output. journalctl has a number 
option for filtering: per unit, --system, --user, etc.


However an AppImage may send nothing to the syslog or journald sockets. 
stderr might appear e.g. in ~/.xsession-errors

Re: logging no longer standard?

[gene heskett]

On 8/7/23 20:00, songbird wrote:

gene heskett wrote:
...

I believe konsole is unlimited by default. On checking in settings, its
not listed. Scrollback is from my /tmp, which would be on my raid10, so
maybe that something else that is blocked from useing my raid10. IDK.
ulimit reports unlimited. And there is 32G of dram available, htop says:
a bit over 2G's in use out of 32G's, 0 swap/30G's available.


   konsole is a kde package so i'm not familiar with it at
all.

   i do not use split journal files with systemd so i see
everything combined and use root.  i also have rsyslog
installed because at times i like to be able to see
messages in that format.

   sudo crap i don't bother with either, that's why there is
root, if i don't want to have root access then i have all
my other terminals set up for my user access only and that's
fine with me.

   man journald.conf...


I've looked at that, even looked at the file.  It is all systemd 
related, no mention of user stuffs.  Its as if a 3 meter tall board 
fence has been built around the systemd stuff that user apps can't get thru.


Glaringly missing is anything related to something the user might want 
to do.  So where is an equal facility for user stuffs?  Someplace where 
an AppImage looking for a missing dependency might express its 
displeasure at not finding everything it needs?




   songbird

.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>

Re: logging no longer standard?

[songbird]

gene heskett wrote:
...
> I believe konsole is unlimited by default. On checking in settings, its 
> not listed. Scrollback is from my /tmp, which would be on my raid10, so 
> maybe that something else that is blocked from useing my raid10. IDK. 
> ulimit reports unlimited. And there is 32G of dram available, htop says: 
> a bit over 2G's in use out of 32G's, 0 swap/30G's available.

  konsole is a kde package so i'm not familiar with it at
all.

  i do not use split journal files with systemd so i see
everything combined and use root.  i also have rsyslog 
installed because at times i like to be able to see 
messages in that format.

  sudo crap i don't bother with either, that's why there is 
root, if i don't want to have root access then i have all 
my other terminals set up for my user access only and that's 
fine with me.

  man journald.conf...


  songbird

Re: logging no longer standard?

[gene heskett]

On 8/7/23 16:16, songbird wrote:

gene heskett wrote:
...

Many times over the last 25 years. However this problem occurs when it
has already output several gigabytes of previous data the shell has
scrolled off the end of th buffer.. There is not a way to have it start
doing the trace when I click on the save to disk button.  That would
make 500x more useful as a tracing aid.  Or do yu know a trick that
allows that?


   set your shell to unlimited or tee it to a file on a big SSD
partition.

I believe konsole is unlimited by default. On checking in settings, its 
not listed. Scrollback is from my /tmp, which would be on my raid10, so 
maybe that something else that is blocked from useing my raid10. IDK. 
ulimit reports unlimited. And there is 32G of dram available, htop says: 
a bit over 2G's in use out of 32G's, 0 swap/30G's available.


   songbird

.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: logging no longer standard?

[gene heskett]

On 8/7/23 13:23, Henning Follmann wrote:

On Mon, Aug 07, 2023 at 09:41:11AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:

On 8/7/23 07:50, Henning Follmann wrote:

On Sat, Aug 05, 2023 at 03:12:39PM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Sat, Aug 05, 2023 at 08:03:27PM +0100, Joe wrote:

On Sat, 5 Aug 2023 15:09:41 +
Andy Smith  wrote:



[...]

In some cases, the release notes actually do tell you how to get back
to normal.

   err,
"how to get back."
Normal is the new systemd


[deleted rant novella]

Breathe!

Your issues are not solved by or caused by either of journald or rsyslog.
These are just writing what is given to them to somewhere.
If it is not in the log it's someone else's fault.

-H
Ohhhkaaay, but why then do I get a message if looking at the journal as 
user 1000, that the user must be a member of the adm group to see all 
the log, AND adding me to the adm group doesn't change what I can see 
using sudo?  I see gigabytes of stuff from kwin etc, but nary a syllable 
from what isn't working because something blocks it.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page 

Re: logging no longer standard?

[songbird]

gene heskett wrote:
...
> Many times over the last 25 years. However this problem occurs when it 
> has already output several gigabytes of previous data the shell has 
> scrolled off the end of th buffer.. There is not a way to have it start 
> doing the trace when I click on the save to disk button.  That would 
> make 500x more useful as a tracing aid.  Or do yu know a trick that 
> allows that?

  set your shell to unlimited or tee it to a file on a big SSD
partition.


  songbird

Re: logging no longer standard?

[gene heskett]

On 8/7/23 12:19, songbird wrote:

gene heskett wrote:
...

Absolutely none of that makes it to the log I can read with sudo.

This causes me to ask about any new ACL's bookworm might have put in
place, but questions about that have so far been totally ignored.  I
according to an ls -lR, own that raid10 lock, stock and barrel, so why
can't apps running as me, write to it without the 2 minute wait?  And
why is there no d-- clue in the logs root can read, showing why this
is happening.


   have you ever used strace?


Many times over the last 25 years. However this problem occurs when it 
has already output several gigabytes of previous data the shell has 
scrolled off the end of th buffer.. There is not a way to have it start 
doing the trace when I click on the save to disk button.  That would 
make 500x more useful as a tracing aid.  Or do yu know a trick that 
allows that?


Thanks Songbird.


   songbird

.


Cheers, Gene Heskett.
--
"There are four boxes to be used in defense of liberty:
 soap, ballot, jury, and ammo. Please use in that order."
-Ed Howdershelt (Author, 1940)
If we desire respect for the law, we must first make the law respectable.
 - Louis D. Brandeis
Genes Web page <http://geneslinuxbox.net:6309/>

Re: logging no longer standard?

[Henning Follmann]

On Mon, Aug 07, 2023 at 09:41:11AM -0400, gene heskett wrote:
> On 8/7/23 07:50, Henning Follmann wrote:
> > On Sat, Aug 05, 2023 at 03:12:39PM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > > On Sat, Aug 05, 2023 at 08:03:27PM +0100, Joe wrote:
> > > > On Sat, 5 Aug 2023 15:09:41 +
> > > > Andy Smith  wrote:
> > > 
> > [...]
> > > In some cases, the release notes actually do tell you how to get back
> > > to normal.
> >   err,
> > "how to get back."
> > Normal is the new systemd
> > 
[deleted rant novella]

Breathe!

Your issues are not solved by or caused by either of journald or rsyslog.
These are just writing what is given to them to somewhere.
If it is not in the log it's someone else's fault.

-H


-- 
Henning Follmann   | hfollm...@itcfollmann.com

Re: logging no longer standard?

[songbird]

gene heskett wrote:
...
> Absolutely none of that makes it to the log I can read with sudo.
>
> This causes me to ask about any new ACL's bookworm might have put in 
> place, but questions about that have so far been totally ignored.  I 
> according to an ls -lR, own that raid10 lock, stock and barrel, so why 
> can't apps running as me, write to it without the 2 minute wait?  And 
> why is there no d-- clue in the logs root can read, showing why this 
> is happening.

  have you ever used strace?


  songbird

Re: logging no longer standard?

[gene heskett]

On 8/7/23 07:50, Henning Follmann wrote:

On Sat, Aug 05, 2023 at 03:12:39PM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:

On Sat, Aug 05, 2023 at 08:03:27PM +0100, Joe wrote:

On Sat, 5 Aug 2023 15:09:41 +
Andy Smith  wrote:



[...]

In some cases, the release notes actually do tell you how to get back
to normal.

  err,
"how to get back."
Normal is the new systemd

And the new logging is journal.d or some such.  And I so far have not 
been able to detect from reading its tail equ, what port of which card 
is WHICH PHYSICAL DRIVE? Logging is IMO incomplete until I can easily 
locate the drive plugged into sata 4 or 5, starting at base 0, of the 
2nd sata controller plugged into my machine.  If its there, but I can't 
see it, explain to ME how to make that connection. The log is full of 
info but gives virtually zero clues for stuff that's locking this 
machine up tight, so tight it takes 2 minutes to register that the front 
panels reset button has been pressed. A digiKam AppImage cannot open and 
write an output file to my raid10 /home partitian. However the database 
can write its files  A Cura AppImage waits for around 2 minutes to open 
an output file requestor, presumably because the default path is into my 
raid10. If in my impatience, I click save to disk a second time, Its a 
50-50 bet I'll wind up using a root session of htop to kill it and start 
all over again.


Absolutely none of that makes it to the log I can read with sudo.

This causes me to ask about any new ACL's bookworm might have put in 
place, but questions about that have so far been totally ignored.  I 
according to an ls -lR, own that raid10 lock, stock and barrel, so why 
can't apps running as me, write to it without the 2 minute wait?  And 
why is there no d-- clue in the logs root can read, showing why this 
is happening.


All most of you can do is give Gene more hell, he broke it again. W/o 
telling me what I actually did wrong.  The 4 main apps I use, 3 of them 
are AppImages because they are under constant development, and the 
version supplied is old & slow. OpenSCAD is 2+ years old in the repo's, 
the current AppImage is now around 8 releases newer, quite a bit more 
complete AND at least 10x faster.  Same for cura, yours is many versions 
out of date. 4.13 vs 5.4.0. And I've checked, the repo version also has 
this same blockage. Why? What log can I look at that might actually TELL 
me something?


All I can see in journalctl's log is gigabytes spewed by plasmashell, 
and which I can't find what its REAL name is as I generally use konsole 
for a terminal screen. Sample:


ug 07 09:11:07 coyote plasmashell[2385]: Could not find the Plasmoid for 
Plasma::FrameSvgItem(0x559c2dbc5990) QQmlContext(0x559c29de8860) 
QUrl("file:///usr/share/plasma/plasmoids/org.kde.plasma.notifications/contents/ui/global/Globals.qml")
Aug 07 09:13:55 coyote kwin_x11[2346]: kwin_core: XCB error: 3 
(BadWindow), sequence: 15618, resource id: 32931609, major code: 129 
(SHAPE), minor code: 6 (Input)
Aug 07 09:13:55 coyote kwin_x11[2346]: qt.qpa.xcb: QXcbConnection: XCB 
error: 3 (BadWindow), sequence: 15619, resource id: 32931609, major 
code: 2 (ChangeWindowAttributes), minor code: 0
Aug 07 09:20:03 coyote plasmashell[2385]: Could not find the Plasmoid 
for Plasma::FrameSvgItem(0x559c2da12130) QQmlContext(0x559c29de8860) 
QUrl("file:///usr/share/plasma/plasmoids/org.kde.plasma.notifications/contents/ui/global/Globals.qml")
Aug 07 09:20:03 coyote plasmashell[2385]: Could not find the Plasmoid 
for Plasma::FrameSvgItem(0x559c2da12130) QQmlContext(0x559c29de8860) 
QUrl("file:///usr/share/plasma/plasmoids/org.kde.plasma.notifications/contents/ui/global/Globals.qml")
Aug 07 09:20:08 coyote kwin_x11[2346]: qt.qpa.xcb: QXcbConnection: XCB 
error: 3 (BadWindow), sequence: 61182, resource id: 44044366, major 
code: 15 (QueryTree), minor code: 0
Aug 07 09:26:11 coyote plasmashell[2385]: Could not find the Plasmoid 
for Plasma::FrameSvgItem(0x559c2d983bd0) QQmlContext(0x559c29de8860) 
QUrl("file:///usr/share/plasma/plasmoids/org.kde.plasma.notifications/contents/ui/global/Globals.qml")
Aug 07 09:26:11 coyote plasmashell[2385]: Could not find the Plasmoid 
for Plasma::FrameSvgItem(0x559c2d983bd0) QQmlContext(0x559c29de8860) 
QUrl("file:///usr/share/plasma/plasmoids/org.kde.plasma.notifications/contents/ui/global/Globals.qml")
Aug 07 09:29:13 coyote plasmashell[2385]: Could not find the Plasmoid 
for Plasma::FrameSvgItem(0x559c2da372e0) QQmlContext(0x559c29de8860) 
QUrl("file:///usr/share/plasma/plasmoids/org.kde.plasma.notifications/contents/ui/global/Globals.qml")
Aug 07 09:29:13 coyote plasmashell[2385]: Could not find the Plasmoid 
for Plasma::FrameSvgItem(0x559c2da372e0) QQmlContext(0x559c29de8860) 
QUrl("file:///usr/share/plasma/plasmoids/org.kde.plasma.notifications/contents/ui/global/Globals.qml")
Aug 07 09:34:31 coyote kwin_x11[23

Re: logging no longer standard?

[Henning Follmann]

On Sat, Aug 05, 2023 at 03:12:39PM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> On Sat, Aug 05, 2023 at 08:03:27PM +0100, Joe wrote:
> > On Sat, 5 Aug 2023 15:09:41 +
> > Andy Smith  wrote:
>
[...] 
> In some cases, the release notes actually do tell you how to get back
> to normal.
 err,
"how to get back."
Normal is the new systemd 

SCNR :)

-H

-- 
Henning Follmann   | hfollm...@itcfollmann.com

Re: logging no longer standard?

[Max Nikulin]

On 06/08/2023 02:03, Joe wrote:

I use 'tail -f ' at least
once a week


journalctl -f

Re: logging no longer standard?

[Andy Smith]

Hello,

On Sat, Aug 05, 2023 at 08:03:27PM +0100, Joe wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Aug 2023 15:09:41 +
> Andy Smith  wrote:
> > For those of us who do care, installing rsyslog takes seconds.
> > Disabling the systemd journal (if you want to)_ takes another few
> > seconds. This email took longer.
> 
> But will the syslogs continue 'for the foreseeable future' or are there
> already plans to drop them from Debian?

For syslog to be gone from Debian, every maintainer of every syslog
implementation would have to decide to abandon their work. As these
are very popular packages, that does not seem likely.

I suppose it could happen though, if journald got all the features
of every syslogd. Still one of the design goals of journald was the
structured (binary format) logging whereas plain text logging is a
very popular syslog feature, so that still doesn't seem likely.

Who can tell though? It all rests on individuals wanting to do the
work in Debian.

> > The release notes in particular are essential reading since
> > otherwise a person won't know about major components that have
> > changed, been replaced etc.
> 
> Indeed, but they just tell us *what* stuff has changed, The job of
> finding out what has to be actually done in order to continue doing
> whatever we do, still has to be done, and that's time wasted. Obviously
> things have to change, but backwards compatibility is very important to
> minimise such wasted time, as far as possible.

Have you actually read the part of the Debian release notes we're
talking about? I seem to recall them being very clear. journalctl is
very well documented. And if you prefer then it only takes a few
seconds to install rsyslog at which point logging is exactly like it
was in the previous release.

It's really hard for me to see this as a big deal. I don't know what
Debian could have done better, since pleasing all of the people all
of the time isn't a realistic option.

If you DO have good ideas for improvement, by the way, it is
possible to submit patches to the release notes. I've had a couple
of minor things accepted post-release. It's definitely a living
document. So something positive can be contributed.

> it's something else to learn, a bit more running just to stay
> still.

I don't know what to say to you. Computer use just doesn't stay
static. There isn't a single product, platform, operating system,
application or really ANYTHING in computing that I could point you
to that doesn't change.

The idea that it's "just to stay still" is similar to saying it is
"just change for change's sake", which is a common complaint when
confronted by change that we don't approve of. It does happen to a
degree, for sure - developers prefer making new things than they do
perfecting old things. Twenty years ago Jamie Zawinsky called Linux
a Cadre of Attention-Deficit Teenagers:
<https://www.jwz.org/doc/cadt.html>. But most changes are done
because someone somewhere sees value in them. Even if you or I don't
always particularly appreciate it the way that they do.

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Please consider the environment before reading this e-mail.
 — John Levine

Re: logging no longer standard?

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sat, Aug 05, 2023 at 08:03:27PM +0100, Joe wrote:
> On Sat, 5 Aug 2023 15:09:41 +
> Andy Smith  wrote:
> > The release notes in particular are essential reading since
> > otherwise a person won't know about major components that have
> > changed, been replaced etc.
> 
> Indeed, but they just tell us *what* stuff has changed, The job of
> finding out what has to be actually done in order to continue doing
> whatever we do, still has to be done, and that's time wasted.

In some cases, the release notes actually do tell you how to get back
to normal.

Where they don't, the wiki almost always does.  At least, the changes
that *I* make to it place a very high priority on providing simple,
clear instructions for how to adapt to Debian's changes.  Obviously I
can't speak for every wiki editor, but that's kinda the point.  The
wiki is *our* resource for sharing solutions with each other.

Re: logging no longer standard?

[Joe]

On Sat, 5 Aug 2023 15:09:41 +
Andy Smith  wrote:

> Hello,
> 
> On Sat, Aug 05, 2023 at 09:23:25AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> > In any case, this is not a popular change.  
> 
> I don't think that's clear. I think that amongst a population of
> people who care deeply about logging it's generally unfavourable,
> and I myself don't particularly enjoy using journalctl so I'd kind
> of sort of put myself in that category except you know what? I just
> can't bring myself to get worked up over it.
> 
> I think that the vast majority of Debian users just do not care
> (or even know) and are content using journalctl.
> 
> For those of us who do care, installing rsyslog takes seconds.
> Disabling the systemd journal (if you want to)_ takes another few
> seconds. This email took longer.

But will the syslogs continue 'for the foreseeable future' or are there
already plans to drop them from Debian?
> 
> As such I'd file it as a reasonable change that I'm not 100% happy
> about and has resulted in a couple of extra lines in the Ansible
> playbook I use to provision machines. I don't think about it until
> the next time there is a thread of people getting bent out of shape
> over it.
> 
> Whether on balance it is net positive or net negative I don't know.
> 
> > I will also point out that this change is well-documented, both in
> > the official release notes[1] and in the wiki.[2]  Reading these
> > resources before an upgrade is highly recommended.  
> 
> The release notes in particular are essential reading since
> otherwise a person won't know about major components that have
> changed, been replaced etc.

Indeed, but they just tell us *what* stuff has changed, The job of
finding out what has to be actually done in order to continue doing
whatever we do, still has to be done, and that's time wasted. Obviously
things have to change, but backwards compatibility is very important to
minimise such wasted time, as far as possible.

I'm not a professional, I've just run a home/small business server
starting with sarge, and I consider that system administration time
could be better spent either working or playing.

In this fairly minor case, for example, I use 'tail -f ' at least
once a week, mainly on syslog itself, debug (where my firewall logs
to), daemon and exim4/mainlog. I'm sure there is a way to do this with
systemd, but it's something else to learn, a bit more running just to
stay still.

-- 
Joe

Re: logging no longer standard?

[Andy Smith]

Hello,

On Sat, Aug 05, 2023 at 09:23:25AM -0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:
> In any case, this is not a popular change.

I don't think that's clear. I think that amongst a population of
people who care deeply about logging it's generally unfavourable,
and I myself don't particularly enjoy using journalctl so I'd kind
of sort of put myself in that category except you know what? I just
can't bring myself to get worked up over it.

I think that the vast majority of Debian users just do not care
(or even know) and are content using journalctl.

For those of us who do care, installing rsyslog takes seconds.
Disabling the systemd journal (if you want to)_ takes another few
seconds. This email took longer.

As such I'd file it as a reasonable change that I'm not 100% happy
about and has resulted in a couple of extra lines in the Ansible
playbook I use to provision machines. I don't think about it until
the next time there is a thread of people getting bent out of shape
over it.

Whether on balance it is net positive or net negative I don't know.

> I will also point out that this change is well-documented, both in the
> official release notes[1] and in the wiki.[2]  Reading these resources
> before an upgrade is highly recommended.

The release notes in particular are essential reading since
otherwise a person won't know about major components that have
changed, been replaced etc.

Cheers,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

"The electric guitar - like making love - is much improved by a little
 feedback, completely ruined by too much." — The League Against Tedium

Re: logging no longer standard?

[Andy Smith]

Hello,

On Sat, Aug 05, 2023 at 08:56:36AM -0400, Carl Fink wrote:
> It is highly probable that I'm being grumpy because Debian changed
> something that I was used to for decades, without my realizing it.

…because you didn't read the release notes that are absolutely
required reading to understand what important things have changed in
Debian at each release.

> Changing things will *always* be perceived as friction unless
> someone explains clearly why it makes sense, to me personally.

So a project needs to come and find you, a person who does not read
their release notes, to advocate to you why any and every change
will be made and seek your approval?

That doesn't sound like a very reasonable thing to ask of
volunteers. Have you considered paying some software developers to
make an OS to your exact specifications without you having to spend
any effort having input except when they consult you?

Thanks,
Andy

-- 
https://bitfolk.com/ -- No-nonsense VPS hosting

Re: logging no longer standard?

[Teemu Likonen]

* 2023-08-05 09:23:25-0400, Greg Wooledge wrote:

> In any case, this [systemd journal] is not a popular change. I don't
> remember ever hearing a single person say "Wow, I'm so glad they did
> this!" I've seen many complaints. Most often, people just (re)install
> rsyslog and move on with their lives as before.

The popularity and opinions haven't been queried. We don't hear people's
silent satisfaction. You only hear complaints and surprise reactions:
"What? Things have changed?"

Ok, here is one: I think systemd is wonderful system and its journal is
really nice part of it. I use systemd units in such way that would have
been difficult before.

-- 
/// Teemu Likonen - .-.. https://www.iki.fi/tlikonen/
// OpenPGP: 6965F03973F0D4CA22B9410F0F2CAE0E07608462


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

Re: logging no longer standard?

[err404]

On 8/5/23 14:56, Carl Fink wrote:

On 8/5/23 02:54, Michel Verdier wrote:

On 2023-08-04, Carl Fink wrote:


Today, on my Bullseye system, X crashed and restarted. Naturally, I thought
I'd check my logs to see if I could find out why.

Well, no ... because syslog does not exist.

If you don't have syslog your logs will be on journald.
But X logs could be in /var/log/Xorg.0.log or
~/.xsession-error or ~/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.0.log

It is highly probable that I'm being grumpy because Debian changed something 
that
I was used to for decades, without my realizing it. I'm more interested in 
*using* my
computer than learning whole new paradigms about, say, logging. Changing things
will *always* be perceived as friction unless someone explains clearly why it 
makes
sense, to me personally.

-Carl Fink



I have syslog, and journald.
about having syslog, it is probably because I install rsyslog on all my 
computers (to send logs on server through vpn).
about having journald, I dont apreciate it, because it change many things that 
already working for years.
the ONLY avantage (in my opinion) to journald is to start loging very earlier 
at boot.

may be installing rsyslog is a solution for you (even if you don't need to send 
logs on a remote server)

Re: logging no longer standard?

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sat, Aug 05, 2023 at 02:12:31PM +0100, Brian wrote:
> Does this clarify?
> 
>   https://wiki.debian.org/Rsyslog#Deprecation_in_Bookworm

Ah, I didn't know about that page.  It links to bug #1018788 which
says, among other things,

The main reason here is, that I want to avoid that log data is stored
twice on disk.

That's good to know, I suppose.

Re: logging no longer standard?

[Greg Wooledge]

On Sat, Aug 05, 2023 at 08:56:36AM -0400, Carl Fink wrote:
> It is highly probable that I'm being grumpy because Debian changed something
> that
> I was used to for decades, without my realizing it. I'm more interested in
> *using* my
> computer than learning whole new paradigms about, say, logging. Changing
> things
> will *always* be perceived as friction unless someone explains clearly why
> it makes
> sense, to me personally.

You're unlikely to get a satisfactory explanation.  My best guess is they
(the Debian developers in question) think systemd's journal is really
neat-o and they want people to consider it the primary information source,
with human-readable text files being "legacy".  (To be fair, log rotation
of text files is clunky.  But it's a well-understood problem with well-
establish solutions.)

My second best guess is they wanted to reduce redundancy.  Having the
same information logged in multiple places might seem unappealing to
them.

In any case, this is not a popular change.  I don't remember ever
hearing a single person say "Wow, I'm so glad they did this!"  I've
seen many complaints.  Most often, people just (re)install rsyslog and
move on with their lives as before.

I will also point out that this change is well-documented, both in the
official release notes[1] and in the wiki.[2]  Reading these resources
before an upgrade is highly recommended.

[1] 
https://www.debian.org/releases/bookworm/amd64/release-notes/ch-information.en.html#upgrade-specific-issues
[2] https://wiki.debian.org/NewInBookworm

Re: logging no longer standard?

[Brian]

On Sat 05 Aug 2023 at 08:56:36 -0400, Carl Fink wrote:

> On 8/5/23 02:54, Michel Verdier wrote:
> > On 2023-08-04, Carl Fink wrote:
> > 
> > > Today, on my Bullseye system, X crashed and restarted. Naturally, I 
> > > thought
> > > I'd check my logs to see if I could find out why.
> > > 
> > > Well, no ... because syslog does not exist.
> > If you don't have syslog your logs will be on journald.
> > But X logs could be in /var/log/Xorg.0.log or
> > ~/.xsession-error or ~/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.0.log
> It is highly probable that I'm being grumpy because Debian changed something
> that
> I was used to for decades, without my realizing it. I'm more interested in
> *using* my
> computer than learning whole new paradigms about, say, logging. Changing
> things
> will *always* be perceived as friction unless someone explains clearly why
> it makes
> sense, to me personally.

Does this clarify?

  https://wiki.debian.org/Rsyslog#Deprecation_in_Bookworm

Re: logging no longer standard?

[Carl Fink]

On 8/5/23 02:54, Michel Verdier wrote:

On 2023-08-04, Carl Fink wrote:


Today, on my Bullseye system, X crashed and restarted. Naturally, I thought
I'd check my logs to see if I could find out why.

Well, no ... because syslog does not exist.

If you don't have syslog your logs will be on journald.
But X logs could be in /var/log/Xorg.0.log or
~/.xsession-error or ~/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.0.log
It is highly probable that I'm being grumpy because Debian changed 
something that
I was used to for decades, without my realizing it. I'm more interested 
in *using* my
computer than learning whole new paradigms about, say, logging. Changing 
things
will *always* be perceived as friction unless someone explains clearly 
why it makes

sense, to me personally.

-Carl Fink

Re: logging no longer standard?

[Michel Verdier]

On 2023-08-04, Carl Fink wrote:

> Today, on my Bullseye system, X crashed and restarted. Naturally, I thought
> I'd check my logs to see if I could find out why.
>
> Well, no ... because syslog does not exist.

If you don't have syslog your logs will be on journald.
But X logs could be in /var/log/Xorg.0.log or
~/.xsession-error or ~/.local/share/xorg/Xorg.0.log

Re: logging no longer standard?

[tomas]

On Fri, Aug 04, 2023 at 10:40:37PM -0400, Carl Fink wrote:
> Today, on my Bullseye system, X crashed and restarted. Naturally, I thought
> I'd check my logs to see if I could find out why.
> 
> Well, no ... because syslog does not exist.
> 
> Is it really the default to have no/very little logging when using mostly
> the default install? (I just installed syslog-ng, now that I know that I
> have to.)

Under systemd the default is the systemd journal, yes.

That said, if you are looking for the X11 logs, perhaps they are
elsewhere and not under the journalctll umbrella anyway. Someone
with systemd knowledge might chime in.

Cheers
-- 
t


signature.asc
Description: PGP signature

logging no longer standard?

[Carl Fink]

Today, on my Bullseye system, X crashed and restarted. Naturally, I 
thought I'd check my logs to see if I could find out why.


Well, no ... because syslog does not exist.

Is it really the default to have no/very little logging when using 
mostly the default install? (I just installed syslog-ng, now that I know 
that I have to.)


-Carl Fink

Re: Error: no such device

[Michael Kjörling]

On 26 Jul 2023 07:43 -0400, from s.mol...@sbcglobal.net:
> I just tried to boot
> into the new OS and it booted!!! After bumbling luck on my part, but I'll
> take it.

In that case, you may want to run `sudo update-grub` from within the
system that boots. Doing so will rewrite the GRUB configuration files.

-- 
Michael Kjörling 🔗 https://michael.kjorling.se
“Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

RE: Error: no such device

[s.molnar]

-Original Message-
From: Greg Wooledge  
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2023 7:15 AM
To: debian-user@lists.debian.org
Subject: Re: Error: no such device

On Wed, Jul 26, 2023 at 06:46:31AM -0400, s.mol...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
> I installed Debian 12.0.0 on my Linux platform form the net install 
> iso

> The computer has been in service since the last time I upgraded the 
> system

..???

Did you *reinstall* Debian, or did you *upgrade* it?  Those are two
dramatically different things.

> Welcome to GRUB! 
> Error: no such device:  1d937ccf-2b57-4dcd-97d9-83522d7504f1.

If GRUB can't locate your root or /boot file system by UUID, then we would
need to know how you partitioned everything.  Did you try to do LVM, RAID,
or any combination of them?  Is the root or /boot file system inside one of
those, or is it on a native partition?  What file system type did you use to
create it?  Is this an EFI system or Legacy boot?


Thank you for your reply. I'm sorry for the brevity, but I wasn't sure what
I should report.

As usual, I sent the follow-up note a tad too sone. I just tried to boot
into the new OS and it booted!!! After bumbling luck on my part, but I'll
take it.

Once again, many thanks!!

FW: Error: no such device

[s.molnar]

 

 

From: s.mol...@sbcglobal.net  
Sent: Wednesday, July 26, 2023 6:47 AM
To: 'debian-user@lists.debian.org' 
Subject: Error: no such device

 

I installed Debian 12.0.0 on my Linux platform form the net install iso
without any warning or error messages. The initial boot of the system booted
the system came to a halt father quickly with the message:

 

GRUB loading

Welcome to GRUB! 

 

Error: no such device:  1d937ccf-2b57-4dcd-97d9-83522d7504f1.

Error: unknown file system.

grub rescue>

 

The computer has been in service since the last time I upgraded the system
and has not had this problem. I have been using Linux since the early days
with Slackware.

 

At this point I have downloaded the Debian-live-12.0.1-amd64-xfce.iso and
burned it to a USB flash drive which boots. I intend trying to installing
the system via this route, but wanted to send this hopping to get guidance.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

Stephen P. Molnar, Ph.D.

https:insilicochemistry.net

Cell:  (614)312-7528

Skype:  smolnar1

 

Booted into the live system, ran the installer, but got the same error when
attempted booting.

 

Now I really need help.

Re: Error: no such device

[Michael Kjörling]

On 26 Jul 2023 06:46 -0400, from s.mol...@sbcglobal.net:
> I installed Debian 12.0.0 on my Linux platform form the net install iso
> without any warning or error messages. The initial boot of the system booted
> the system came to a halt father quickly with the message:
> 
>  
> 
> GRUB loading
> 
> Welcome to GRUB! 
> 
>  
> 
> Error: no such device:  1d937ccf-2b57-4dcd-97d9-83522d7504f1.
> 
> Error: unknown file system.
> 
> grub rescue>

How exactly did you "install" Debian? In particular, when you did, did
you by any chance repartition or reformat anything? What's your file
system layout; do you have a separate /boot?

"No such device" from GRUB with a UUID suggests a mismatch between
partition/file system UUIDs and GRUB's configuration.

Something like `grep -i -C 5 --color 1d937ccf /boot/grub/grub.cfg`
pointing to the /boot/grub of the broken GRUB installation might point
you to where it's getting that UUID from and thus what needs to be
done to fix it. `lsblk -o +PARTUUID` might also be helpful.

I seriously doubt that you'll need to reinstall Debian to fix this.
It's more likely that your GRUB configuration just needs a little
tweak.

-- 
Michael Kjörling 🔗 https://michael.kjorling.se
“Remember when, on the Internet, nobody cared that you were a dog?”

Re: Error: no such device

[Greg Wooledge]

On Wed, Jul 26, 2023 at 06:46:31AM -0400, s.mol...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
> I installed Debian 12.0.0 on my Linux platform form the net install iso

> The computer has been in service since the last time I upgraded the system

...???

Did you *reinstall* Debian, or did you *upgrade* it?  Those are two
dramatically different things.

> Welcome to GRUB! 
> Error: no such device:  1d937ccf-2b57-4dcd-97d9-83522d7504f1.

If GRUB can't locate your root or /boot file system by UUID, then we
would need to know how you partitioned everything.  Did you try to do LVM,
RAID, or any combination of them?  Is the root or /boot file system inside
one of those, or is it on a native partition?  What file system type
did you use to create it?  Is this an EFI system or Legacy boot?

Error: no such device

[s.molnar]

I installed Debian 12.0.0 on my Linux platform form the net install iso
without any warning or error messages. The initial boot of the system booted
the system came to a halt father quickly with the message:

 

GRUB loading

Welcome to GRUB! 

 

Error: no such device:  1d937ccf-2b57-4dcd-97d9-83522d7504f1.

Error: unknown file system.

grub rescue>

 

The computer has been in service since the last time I upgraded the system
and has not had this problem. I have been using Linux since the early days
with Slackware.

 

At this point I have downloaded the Debian-live-12.0.1-amd64-xfce.iso and
burned it to a USB flash drive which boots. I intend trying to installing
the system via this route, but wanted to send this hopping to get guidance.

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

Stephen P. Molnar, Ph.D.

https:insilicochemistry.net

Cell:  (614)312-7528

Skype:  smolnar1

 

Re: no sound on Debian 12

[Michel Verdier]

On 2023-07-25, Bruce Byfield wrote:

> Last week, I installed Debian 12. Since then I've had no sound. I've 
> consulted 
> various pages on the Debian wiki, and found no solution, either with 
> pulseaudio or pipewire. Built-in speakers,  and external features (including 
> bluetooth ones, which are definitely connected) don't work. Any suggestions?

pulseaudio is provided by pipewire-pulse if you use pipewire. And you
should have wireplumber for your user. Check packages and systemd
services.

Re: no sound on Debian 12

[Andreas Rönnquist]

On Tue, 25 Jul 2023 14:54:26 -0700,
Bruce Byfield wrote:

>Last week, I installed Debian 12. Since then I've had no sound. I've consulted 
>various pages on the Debian wiki, and found no solution, either with 
>pulseaudio or pipewire. Built-in speakers,  and external features (including 
>bluetooth ones, which are definitely connected) don't work. Any suggestions?

Are you sure you have no sound at all, and not just have really really
low volume?

I have a similar problem where I need to raise the volume in alsamixer
between each boot (or switch between different users) - I have posted
about it here on debian-user, but no replies yet. 

-- Andreas Rönnquist
mailingli...@gusnan.se
andr...@ronnquist.net