Re: Tomboy in Desktop
On 8/6/06, Alex Jones [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 2006-08-05 at 22:13 +0200, Jaap Haitsma wrote: Also please do not replace stickynotes with Tomboy. They are different applications. I use sticky notes like you use the normal sticky notes. Just to write something I should remember: Things to do. Phone numbers etc. With one simple click on the sticky notes icon I have access to those. Furthermore they always show up when I start my computer. So I see my things I need to do every morning when I startup my PC Spot on. 100% behind you with this. Jaap In the same idea, the icons of Tomboy and Sticky Applet are nearly the same (same shape, same color), this is really conbusing. The icon of each application should perhaps show the difference of usage. -- Baptiste Mille-Mathias ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
Hi, On Sat, 2006-08-05 at 22:13 +0200, Jaap Haitsma wrote: Also jumping in late but I think I haven't seen a comment about the fact that Tomboy does not have any Help Documentation. There is already a discussion about getting the documentation ready on the doc-list: http://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-doc-list/2006-August/msg00048.html Don ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
On 7/28/06, Andrew Cowie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: How does all this square with the notes component in Evolution? Seems that instead of both above the right term would be all three [I've had the switcher buttons turned off for a long time, so only just noticed that such a thing was even in Evolution... but it's part of the desktop, no?] This was part of the discussion of making tomboy use EDS for sharing notes with evolution. I forget how that discussion ended up iain ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
On 7/28/06, Alan Horkan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As you probably already know Havoc Pennington wrote a very interesting article about Working on Free Software http://ometer.com/hacking.html which makes a strong point of Don't start by launching your own project but Gnome is faced by a lot of overlapping projects. Strange as it may seem, some people don't take everything Havoc writes as gospel (forgive me Havoc). I disagreed with it on many points when I read it when he wrote it in 1999 and I still do now that I've read it again. I do suggest you give it a thorough read through yourself. Realistically taking [sticky notes] out of Gnome is a kiss of death. Realistically, sticky notes is dead. In the last 18months since its rewrite () it has received three commits that were adding features, the last being in January 2006 to add Hide Notes to the menu Now, it has had a good number of minor maintence commits, fix a memory leak here, a crasher there, but in terms of development, it is dead. I have nothing to say on anything else you have said, because really its all been said before and contains nothing new. I have stated my opinion, and I'd be extremely happy if you left it at that. iain ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
Jeff Waugh wrote: I haven't really heard much of a critical response to these ideas, just more ber, Desktop, Desktop, Desktop, get it all in Desktop stuff. Why does it need to be in Desktop? Why do we have to jam everything in Desktop? Can we ship it in Powertools (a suite that has been proposed a couple of times)...? We don't have to jam everything in Desktop, but shipping it in a power tools release with devilspie and nautilus-open-terminal is wrong, because Tomboy isn't intended to only be useful for power users, it's intended to be useful for *everyone*. It would be useful to formally bless it *somehow* though. Going back to your original post: * If Alex wants to adopt the GNOME release cycle and strategy for Tomboy, that's *fantastic*... but we can approach that differently. * Let's give our users the ability to discover and cherish awesome third party software for GNOME. The big missing piece here is translation. Alex can't personally translate Tomboy into all 52 languages, but the translators don't have time to translate every single GNOME app in the universe either. So if we want to consider Tomboy to be in, GNOME should say as long as Alex sticks with the GNOME release cycle and obeys string freezes, the translators should translate it along with the rest of the release. It doesn't matter much what we call this state. (As long as it's not Power Tools :-). Maybe bring back Fifth Toe? -- Dan ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
On Jul 26, 2006, at 9:43 AM, Alex Graveley wrote: ... Here's a status update on recent Tomboy happenings... I've applied a patch originally from Novell to use Tango icons and removed the possibly legally entangled Tintin icon. ... I don't mean to be a nuisance, but since Tomboy is licensed under the LGPL, Tango icons may be legally entangled too. http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/tango-artists/2006-July/ 000621.html Cheers -- Matthew Paul Thomas http://mpt.net.nz/ ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
Jeff Waugh wrote: quote who=Dan Winship The big missing piece here is translation. Alex can't personally translate Tomboy into all 52 languages, but the translators don't have time to translate every single GNOME app in the universe either. So if we want to consider Tomboy to be in, GNOME should say as long as Alex sticks with the GNOME release cycle and obeys string freezes, the translators should translate it along with the rest of the release. It doesn't matter much what we call this state. (As long as it's not Power Tools :-). Maybe bring back Fifth Toe? Fifth Toe was a random grab bag, without any real purpose - what kind of focused suite would you suggest if not Power Tools? A random grab bag is exactly what I'm suggesting. Apps that we like, that you might like too, but that we don't want to put into Desktop. Users/Distros can look through it and find the ones they like. Focused suites only work for apps that are targeted at a focused subset of users (power users, sysadmins, artists, swedes, whatever). If we put Tomboy in a Power User or Sysadmin suite, non-power-users/sysadmins would never discover it. But if we put it in an Organizational Tools suite or a Desktop Extras suite or an Apps That Make Heavy Use of the Color Yellow suite, then we're not actually helping anyone, because the divisions between the suites would be completely irrelevant to our users, so every user would have to look through the contents of every suite to find which apps they care about, so it's essentially still just a random grab bag. -- Dan ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
On 7/27/06, Jeff Waugh [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: quote who=Jeff Waugh Here's my point of view, completely independent from the fact that Tomboy is built with Gtk#/Mono. Here it is in point form, because I seem to be doing pretty well with it: I haven't really heard much of a critical response to these ideas, just more ber, Desktop, Desktop, Desktop, get it all in Desktop stuff. Why does it need to be in Desktop? Why do we have to jam everything in Desktop? Can we ship it in Powertools (a suite that has been proposed a couple of times)...? Taking notes is hardly a power user thing. Most people like having a place that they can just scribble some notes down. My opinion is that if it is in anything it should be the desktop release. As for its conflict with sticky notes, the options are a) Have both b) Have both but deprecate sticky notes. c) Replace My views a) Clearly is silly. While they are not identical, they both serve the same basic purpose. Its like getting into the 4 clock situation again, they weren't all identical, but they did the same basic thing - told the time. b) Having both but deprecating sticky notes to remove it at a later date is kinda the cop out solution to satisfy the people screaming about application churn or saying that they'll miss their favourite note taking application. And I think its a non-argument really. Removing sticky notes at some arbitary later date will once again have people saying that they'll miss their favourite note taking application, and complaining about application churn, and so it will never be removed. Leaving c, in my opinion, the only viable option. The people who upgrade to the new gnome won't suddenly find their sticky notes had been uninstalled in the process, so it will still function as normal, and there is nothing stopping people taking the old sticky notes and maintaining it outside of gnome, it it actually matters that much to them. The people who install gnome for the first time won't know that they missed the yellow sticky note app in the first place. Having the first time importer doodah and maybe renaming it to just Notes in the menu so people don't get confused because they don't know what tomboy is. Maybe on first run the Start Here note could pop up on screen and explain what it is. I dunno, but thats a discussion for the tomboy developers. There, that is my opinion. iain ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
On 7/28/06, Iain * [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Taking notes is hardly a power user thing. Most people like having a place that they can just scribble some notes down. My opinion is that if it is in anything it should be the desktop release. Oh, and tomboy gives us enough new ability with being able to link notes together (and generally automatically at that) and drag email links etc to justify the switch. iain ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
Tomboy already does this, though the description it gives is pretty minimal today. What do you think it should say? -Alex Iain * wrote: Maybe on first run the Start Here note could pop up on screen and explain what it is. I dunno, but thats a discussion for the tomboy developers. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
Oh, ok, my apologies. Its been a long time since my first run :) iain On 7/28/06, Alex Graveley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Tomboy already does this, though the description it gives is pretty minimal today. What do you think it should say? -Alex Iain * wrote: Maybe on first run the Start Here note could pop up on screen and explain what it is. I dunno, but thats a discussion for the tomboy developers. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
On Fri, 2006-07-28 at 00:19 +0100, Iain * wrote: As for its conflict with sticky notes, the options are a) Have both b) Have both but deprecate sticky notes. c) Replace How does all this square with the notes component in Evolution? Seems that instead of both above the right term would be all three [I've had the switcher buttons turned off for a long time, so only just noticed that such a thing was even in Evolution... but it's part of the desktop, no?] AfC Sydney ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
quote who=Jeff Waugh Here's my point of view, completely independent from the fact that Tomboy is built with Gtk#/Mono. Here it is in point form, because I seem to be doing pretty well with it: I haven't really heard much of a critical response to these ideas, just more ber, Desktop, Desktop, Desktop, get it all in Desktop stuff. Why does it need to be in Desktop? Why do we have to jam everything in Desktop? Can we ship it in Powertools (a suite that has been proposed a couple of times)...? I think this is a really good time to have this discussion. - Jeff -- linux.conf.au 2007: Sydney, Australia http://lca2007.linux.org.au/ It doesn't matter if it is good, it only matters if it rocks. - Tenacious D, Rock Your Socks ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
Stability for those who do use it. Why force users to change? Dont try to assume you know best. Predictable might have been a better choice of word for what I meant by stable. I'm saying that versions of Gnome 2.x should continue to offer the same or very similar software and keep churn to an absolute minimun so that users are not faced with a whole lot of relearning between each minor release. I apologize for any stop energy I might have released accidentally. ... and for that reason I have kept my reply short for now and I'll leave it until the next time something is suggested for removal. Sincerely Alan Horkan ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
Hi, Here's a status update on recent Tomboy happenings... I've applied a patch originally from Novell to use Tango icons and removed the possibly legally entangled Tintin icon. I've also just committed the patch from Sanford for the initial Sticky Note importer plugin. And I've merged a bunch of the changes from a working branch to HEAD to support the switch to Gtk# 2. I believe this removes all of the concerns (actually related to Tomboy) blocking addition to the desktop, but perhaps I'm forgetting something. -Alex, missing Tintin Sanford Armstrong wrote: On 7/24/06, Shaun McCance [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I did an upgrade[1] and Sticky Notes wasn't there anymore, I'd be pretty pissed. That's my data. It was probably important. And it's gone. Sure, I'll bet it's buried in a dot directory somewhere. I'll bet I could find it. I'll bet my mom couldn't. Just FYI, we have a plugin[1] that imports your sticky notes into Tomboy. We are still working on what sort of automatic import on first run behavior it should have. I think it's a fair bet that this plugin (or something similar) would be activated by default if Tomboy were replacing Sticky Notes in GNOME. Sandy [1] http://beatniksoftware.com/pipermail/tomboy-list_beatniksoftware.com/2006-July/001234.html ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
On 22 Jul 2006, at 12:50, David Nielsen wrote: Sticky Notes tends to get cluttered up for note taking while project managing, it's an all or nothing interface whereas Tomboy allows me to show only related notes. I normally prefer having only the set of post-it notes I care about displayed rather than having my screen covered in yellow goodness. This seems to be about the most frequent gripe with the Sticky Notes applet, to be honest... perhaps we should re-start this thread with assuming we're going to fix sticky notes to let you show/hide notes individually or in groups, do we want Tomboy in the desktop? :) Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Java Desktop System Team http://blogs.sun.com/calum +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
On 24 Jul 2006, at 17:10, David Nielsen wrote: No distros actually expose the sticky note application as far as I'm aware To be fair, why would they... distros don't expose most applets, apart from the fairly standard few they choose to have on their panel by default. I wouldn't really expect a sticky notes applet to feature prominently on anyone's default desktop, as it's something most people would use pretty infrequently. Cheeri, Calum. -- CALUM BENSON, Usability Engineer Sun Microsystems Ireland mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Java Desktop System Team http://blogs.sun.com/calum +353 1 819 9771 Any opinions are personal and not necessarily those of Sun Microsystems ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
On Mon, 24 Jul 2006, David Nielsen wrote: Date: Mon, 24 Jul 2006 18:10:22 +0200 From: David Nielsen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: desktop-devel-list@gnome.org Subject: Re: Tomboy in Desktop man, 24 07 2006 kl. 12:51 +0100, skrev Calum Benson: On 22 Jul 2006, at 12:50, David Nielsen wrote: Sticky Notes tends to get cluttered up for note taking while project managing, it's an all or nothing interface whereas Tomboy allows me to show only related notes. I normally prefer having only the set of post-it notes I care about displayed rather than having my screen covered in yellow goodness. This seems to be about the most frequent gripe with the Sticky Notes applet, to be honest... perhaps we should re-start this thread with assuming we're going to fix sticky notes to let you show/hide notes individually or in groups, do we want Tomboy in the desktop? :) Yes, the wiki-like interlinking between notes, spell checking, Could spellchecking could be retrofitted to sticky notes too? I'm sure some people would like to be able to spellcheck in any and every text box but that is another story. searching, drag and drop support for referencing mail and other nice features in Tomboy makes it a superior product. Referencing and linking does seem to be the key feature of Tomboy, but it makes it quite different from Sticky notes. Alex Graveley himself is not suggesting it as a direct replacement for Sticky Notes. Comparing Sticky Notes with Tomboy in that way is like saying that the Wright brothers airplane is basically the functional equivalent of a modern fully staffed Airbus. Wanting a car doesn't mean you should throw out your bicycle, but both get you where you want to go but in different ways and require different learning. Sticky Notes is a mere electronic version of the beloved post-it note, Nothing wrong with doing one thing well. Sticky notes are admittedly simple, and a migration path to Tomboy would be great but forcing user to change feels wrong. The suggestion of Tomboy replacing Stick notes is a lot like suggestion Gthumb was being used as a reason to get rid of EoG. Similar but different. No distros actually expose the sticky note application as far as I'm aware, Sticky Notes is a panel applet and can be found in the Add to Panel Dialog. (I did like it in the old days when applets were listed in the main menu but that is long since gone, but the discoverabiliy of sticky notes doesn't have anything to do with the distributions.) Your comments about what makes Tomboy different only reinforces the point that stick notes should be left alone and Tomboy taken as a seperate case, admittedly with some overlap on Sticky Notes (but also some overlap on Gedit in some ways too). -- Alan H. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
David Nielsen wrote: man, 24 07 2006 kl. 12:51 +0100, skrev Calum Benson: On 22 Jul 2006, at 12:50, David Nielsen wrote: Sticky Notes tends to get cluttered up for note taking while project managing, it's an all or nothing interface whereas Tomboy allows me to show only related notes. I normally prefer having only the set of post-it notes I care about displayed rather than having my screen covered in yellow goodness. This seems to be about the most frequent gripe with the Sticky Notes applet, to be honest... perhaps we should re-start this thread with assuming we're going to fix sticky notes to let you show/hide notes individually or in groups, do we want Tomboy in the desktop? :) Yes, the wiki-like interlinking between notes, spell checking, searching, drag and drop support for referencing mail and other nice features in Tomboy makes it a superior product. I dont doubt that but FWIW when it comes to adding Tracker to gnome 2.18, I would like notes to be added as a first class object and stored in Tracker's DB. Tracker already makes it easy to add tagging, extensible metadata and linking to other objects so adding such support to sticky notes (and Tomboy too if maintainer allows) is one way of improving things in that regard. Im not commiting myself to fixing all your gripes in sticky notes just giving it a bit of tracker power that will hopefully make them more manageable and powerful. -- Mr Jamie McCracken http://jamiemcc.livejournal.com/ ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
man, 24 07 2006 kl. 19:49 +0100, skrev Jamie McCracken: I dont doubt that but FWIW when it comes to adding Tracker to gnome 2.18, I would like notes to be added as a first class object and stored in Tracker's DB. Tracker already makes it easy to add tagging, extensible metadata and linking to other objects so adding such support to sticky notes (and Tomboy too if maintainer allows) is one way of improving things in that regard. Im not commiting myself to fixing all your gripes in sticky notes just giving it a bit of tracker power that will hopefully make them more manageable and powerful. I have no gripe with sticky notes, hell up till a few days ago I had blissfully forgotten it's existence. This is also not about Tracker, this is about Tomboy - the argument was starting to center around the notion that we could just fix sticky notes and my point was that Tomboy is a much better application today and users generally love it. Sticky Notes comes no where near it and bringing it to the same state would take a lot of hard and pointless work. Merely adding spell checking (and I agree we should have a common spell checking API and HIG spec but that aside) and stuffing it in Tracker (which isn't an option TODAY as tracker is nowhere near ready either, by your own admission the plan for proposal is 2.18) won't magically make it Tomboy. Tomboy is the product of innovation, it works well and is stable. I see no reason to not include it what so ever. I don't really see a reason to keep Sticky Notes either, it's not discoverable and I doubt many people actually use it - furthermore all the things you'd do in Sticky Notes can be done in Tomboy with ease. It's minimally different interfaces and modes of operation but it would be better to do a UI review of Tomboy and have one application, one good default. If you want the same exact behavior as Sticky Notes, simply don't use the linking feature, voila - you have the same thing (but with spell checking, reference ability, etc). That is where Alex and I differ in opinion, I think we can replace Sticky Notes based on that observation. But please don't retrofit Tomboy on Sticky Notes just because of the politics around Mono and don't bring up Tracker as a solution. We can't make decisions based on software we haven't even examined and debated for inclusion. I imagine the Beagle people might have arguments for and against their system for that debate when it comes around in 6 months or so. That's my opinion. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
On Mon, 24 Jul 2006, David Nielsen wrote: man, 24 07 2006 kl. 19:49 +0100, skrev Jamie McCracken: I dont doubt that but FWIW when it comes to adding Tracker to gnome 2.18, I would like notes to be added as a first class object and stored in Tracker's DB. Tracker already makes it easy to add tagging, extensible metadata and linking to other objects so adding such support to sticky notes (and Tomboy too if maintainer allows) is one way of improving things in that regard. Im not commiting myself to fixing all your gripes in sticky notes just giving it a bit of tracker power that will hopefully make them more manageable and powerful. I have no gripe with sticky notes, Doesn't sound like it. You are advocating it be removed and the Tomboy author is not. Sticky Notes comes no where near it and bringing it to the same state would take a lot of hard and pointless work. It is all too easy to disregard all the work put into more peripheral tasks or documentation and ongoing maintainance. APIs get deprecated, but applications get removed entirely. Sometimes the option to keep using what you were happy with really is better than having to learn a new different application. Merely adding spell checking (and I agree we should have a common spell checking API and HIG spec but that aside) and stuffing it in Tracker (which isn't an option TODAY as tracker is nowhere near ready either, by your own admission the plan for proposal is 2.18) won't magically make it Tomboy. I'm not suggesting Sticky Notes be made tomboy but the whole process of removing older applications bothers me. I'd like to see them frozen/deprecated in some way and remain available and then maybe removed at some major milestone or at least after a few releases. This really has nothing to do with Tomboy, I felt similarly strongly about keeping gnome-cd-player when sound juicer was proposed. Tomboy is the product of innovation, it works well and is stable. I see no reason to not include it what so ever. I don't really see a reason to keep Sticky Notes either, Stability for those who do use it. Why force users to change? Dont try to assume you know best. -- Alan H. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
man, 24 07 2006 kl. 22:58 +0100, skrev Alan Horkan: I have no gripe with sticky notes, Doesn't sound like it. You are advocating it be removed and the Tomboy author is not. I honestly don't, my gripe is with duplication of functionality, if we include Tomboy, which I believe was the discussion at hand. We would be providing the basically same functionality twice, this seems to go against what I've come to know and love about GNOME over the many years I've been a part of the community. In fact the very feature that converted me from KDE long ago got replaced, acme or whatever the name was of the first no frills, no configuration, just work multimedia keyboard thing. The functionality got even better by being replaced in my opinion. It is all too easy to disregard all the work put into more peripheral tasks or documentation and ongoing maintainance. I'm a translator, trust me I'm not disregarding tasks aside programming, in fact I translated Tomboy just the other day and I'm about to put my work through peer review within my designated team. APIs get deprecated, but applications get removed entirely. Sometimes the option to keep using what you were happy with really is better than having to learn a new different application. I have yet to actually meet a user who used Sticky Notes, but lets say they exist and are plentiful, I would have expected at least one to chime in and make an practical argument against removing it. However if none do and no concensus can be made on replacing Sticky Notes what do you propose then.. I would be perfectly fine with keeping Sticky Notes on for a few releases although I'm afraid it will end up never getting removed just like I'm afraid that will happen to gnome-cd-player. If we can make a cut off date sufficiently far in the future would that work for you, they both die say in 2 years. That should after all be plenty of time to write documentation of all kinds and you have my word I will help out all I can. For these kinds of things it would be really nice to have the same kind of system the kernel uses, we mark something off as deprecated with a given date in this case we could say come branch time for 2.21 the following gets removed, please stop relying on it today. If we can't outright remove a given program at least we should agree on a policy to do so gracefully in all cases henceforth. I'm not suggesting Sticky Notes be made tomboy but the whole process of removing older applications bothers me. I'd like to see them frozen/deprecated in some way and remain available and then maybe removed at some major milestone or at least after a few releases. This really has nothing to do with Tomboy, I felt similarly strongly about keeping gnome-cd-player when sound juicer was proposed. Yes and when exactly did you imagine we'd get to remove it? This is why we need a policy and a strong leader. No even I'm not that arrogant as to suggest that would be me - in the past Jeff has served this position as our pantsless leader, though his current commercial ties might cause for accusations of bias. If the foundation could afford it that would be one position I'd love to see filled. Someone like Quim Gil has shown a tremendous ability to coordinate and energize people so I'd probably off hand propose him or someone with the same qualities. Actually I've thought about that for some time now, ever since GUADEC where I happened to catch some of the board meeting via the stream. It's also apparent by listening to the community that they think we flutter around to much and need direction. A strong leader and some road maps for desired goals would do us some good and help bring back the community's faith in us. Stability for those who do use it. Why force users to change? Dont try to assume you know best. Why force people to do anything, why force them to use GNOME - I believe the majority will elect to migrate for reasons of functionality and stability of these new products. But we have forced change on them before, gpdf - evince, gtk1 - gtk2, sometimes forcing users a bit is needed for progress to be ensured. Imagine if we never removed code. There are also other ways of ensuring stability than keeping code extensive use of build testing would be just one (maybe we could look at GStreamer here, they have a fine set of tools in use but we can improve on them over time, I know Fredrico would probably like some automated performance measurements as well e.g.). Stability is also for those that seek it, GNOME is pretty damn stable but we can do better.. Did we ever turn the critical to fatal thing back on again for development, it seemed to hit bugs left and right, great testing feature for those of us who have the strange hobby of filing bugs. I apologize for any stop energy I might have released accidentally. - David Nielsen http://osnews.com/story.php?news_id=15266 ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
On Tue, 2006-07-25 at 02:02 +0200, David Nielsen wrote: man, 24 07 2006 kl. 22:58 +0100, skrev Alan Horkan: APIs get deprecated, but applications get removed entirely. Sometimes the option to keep using what you were happy with really is better than having to learn a new different application. I have yet to actually meet a user who used Sticky Notes, but lets say they exist and are plentiful, I would have expected at least one to chime in and make an practical argument against removing it. Sorry, I voiced my concerns in a more general fashion. I try not to posit myself as the user in discussions, because somebody always comes back with the you're not our target user crap. I use Sticky Notes. I have maybe half a dozen notes at any given time. They're mostly transient notes, and most of them get deleted within a couple weeks or so. I mostly use them as TODO lists, although I occasionally use them to jot down other random crap. If I did an upgrade[1] and Sticky Notes wasn't there anymore, I'd be pretty pissed. That's my data. It was probably important. And it's gone. Sure, I'll bet it's buried in a dot directory somewhere. I'll bet I could find it. I'll bet my mom couldn't. And, for what it's worth, I'm fond of the non-window behavior of Sticky Notes, though the ability to show only selected notes would be appreciated. When I'm coordinating what to do with a note, it's nice to have a visually distinct note sort of floating on top of things. None of this is to say that Tomboy isn't an incredible and innovative application (it is). What I'm saying is that I find Sticky Notes meets my needs for what Sticky Notes does, and that losing data sucks hard. [1] Yes, what's still there after an upgrade depends entirely on how one upgrades, which is outside the scope of Gnome. I usually upgrade my distro with a clean install. I keep my home directory on its own partition and wipe the rest. OK, I'm weird. -- Shaun ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
man, 24 07 2006 kl. 19:45 -0500, skrev Shaun McCance: On Tue, 2006-07-25 at 02:02 +0200, David Nielsen wrote: man, 24 07 2006 kl. 22:58 +0100, skrev Alan Horkan: APIs get deprecated, but applications get removed entirely. Sometimes the option to keep using what you were happy with really is better than having to learn a new different application. I have yet to actually meet a user who used Sticky Notes, but lets say they exist and are plentiful, I would have expected at least one to chime in and make an practical argument against removing it. Sorry, I voiced my concerns in a more general fashion. I try not to posit myself as the user in discussions, because somebody always comes back with the you're not our target user crap. I use Sticky Notes. I have maybe half a dozen notes at any given time. They're mostly transient notes, and most of them get deleted within a couple weeks or so. I mostly use them as TODO lists, although I occasionally use them to jot down other random crap. If I did an upgrade[1] and Sticky Notes wasn't there anymore, I'd be pretty pissed. That's my data. It was probably important. And it's gone. Sure, I'll bet it's buried in a dot directory somewhere. I'll bet I could find it. I'll bet my mom couldn't. And, for what it's worth, I'm fond of the non-window behavior of Sticky Notes, though the ability to show only selected notes would be appreciated. When I'm coordinating what to do with a note, it's nice to have a visually distinct note sort of floating on top of things. None of this is to say that Tomboy isn't an incredible and innovative application (it is). What I'm saying is that I find Sticky Notes meets my needs for what Sticky Notes does, and that losing data sucks hard. [1] Yes, what's still there after an upgrade depends entirely on how one upgrades, which is outside the scope of Gnome. I usually upgrade my distro with a clean install. I keep my home directory on its own partition and wipe the rest. OK, I'm weird. I stand corrected, and yes losing your data does suck rather badly, we should avoid that naturally. I tend to follow the same upgrade method and it normally works for me, I can't think of a reason why it wouldn't or shouldn't do as you expected. This regrettably is a bug, I hope nobody else encountered it, losing data is the one thing that really piss users off in my experience - I fondly remember once being called out at 4am to recover the prepared exam questions for the next day for a teacher who's son had upgraded the system at an unfortunate time.. This kind of experience makes users cry. I'd be rather upset if I upgraded my system and my carefully arranged Tomboy notes went boom. However we have already debated this and there's even a thread now on migration from one system to another (Gnoperinus migration to Orca), a similar conversion would be needed if we replace Sticky Notes with Tomboy, now or at the future date. We can replace applications but the users data should remain. They trust us with it, we should be flattered. - David Nielsen ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
On 7/24/06, Shaun McCance [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If I did an upgrade[1] and Sticky Notes wasn't there anymore, I'd be pretty pissed. That's my data. It was probably important. And it's gone. Sure, I'll bet it's buried in a dot directory somewhere. I'll bet I could find it. I'll bet my mom couldn't. Just FYI, we have a plugin[1] that imports your sticky notes into Tomboy. We are still working on what sort of automatic import on first run behavior it should have. I think it's a fair bet that this plugin (or something similar) would be activated by default if Tomboy were replacing Sticky Notes in GNOME. Sandy [1] http://beatniksoftware.com/pipermail/tomboy-list_beatniksoftware.com/2006-July/001234.html ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Jeff Waugh wrote: * Without a doubt, Tomboy is pure awesome. Amen. Only 2 gripes: o Passing of tomboy notes over IP to an existing Tomboy session on someone else's boxen (ala KNotes) o A plugin for tomboy that allows back and forth import export using wiki syntax (for those who don't have the blessing to run tomboy) :Sankarshan - -- You see things; and you say 'Why?'; But I dream things that never were; and I say 'Why not?' - George Bernard Shaw -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Fedora - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFEwd8DXQZpNTcrCzMRAsbMAJ91Va1RPmUwvu9zbp1n6+EUqehE8ACfYl5U bLXAd1bA3goG2P4NvK10X08= =eAp5 -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
Jeff Waugh wrote: quote who=Jeff Waugh * Should we include Tomboy in the Desktop suite? (completely independently from the fact that it uses Gtk#/Mono) IIRC, there was an issue regarding Tomboy's icon (it was Tintin's head, which was both ugly and copyrighted). Was this one addressed or does it still use the same icon ? ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
Tomboy looks like a hybrid (or should I say mutant) wiki page system and mind mapping software. You should try using it for a week. The concept works really well in actuality. It is good for short term mind-mapping and for longer term note taking. Ed Mack ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
lør, 22 07 2006 kl. 12:08 +0100, skrev Gustavo J. A. M. Carneiro: Sáb, 2006-07-22 às 00:10 +0200, David Nielsen escreveu: lør, 22 07 2006 kl. 02:33 +1000, skrev Jeff Waugh: quote who=Jeff Waugh * Should we include Tomboy in the Desktop suite? (completely independently from the fact that it uses Gtk#/Mono) Hi, Here's my point of view, completely independent from the fact that Tomboy is built with Gtk#/Mono. Here it is in point form, because I seem to be doing pretty well with it: * Without a doubt, Tomboy is pure awesome. No argument from me, Tomboy is nothing short of life changing.. praise Alex! I disagree. Tomboy is nice, but it tries to do too much. It does what it has to do to provide useful functionality. Tomboy looks like a hybrid (or should I say mutant) wiki page system and mind mapping software. Well, for a Wiki system I'd rather use a real web based one (I hate writing wikis in these tiny windows). For mind mapping, I'd rather use a real mind mapping software; alas, we don't have a good gtk2 mind mapper, but freemind is pretty good. For simply taking notes, sticky notes is more than enough. Tomboy is a little like a useful wiki (don't ever ask me to type in real wikis, I hate them) with a sane interface on your desktop, we could even do a plugin to export wiki code and publish it with say a xml-rpc interface. But for bringing some of the useful nature of a wiki with an interface that's more like what I'm used to, Tomboy is brilliant. Tomboy isn't a mindmapping tools, I guess you could use it like one but I would frankly rather have a real seperate mindmap application, maybe something where I could branch out freely and make mapped items links to a Tomboy note. This would allow for a quick visual overview and revealing more details by opening up the specific subset of thoughts. The idea needs more fleshing out, maybe it could be done as a plugin to Tomboy, although it feels like tying a few cats together to make a horse. Sticky notes applet is awesome in its simplicity; let's not remove it, please. Sticky Notes tends to get cluttered up for note taking while project managing, it's an all or nothing interface whereas Tomboy allows me to show only related notes. I normally prefer having only the set of post-it notes I care about displayed rather than having my screen covered in yellow goodness. - David Nielsen ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
Hi, Novell has sent me their patch to replace the Tintin icon with a Tango icon, so the next release will no longer have it. -Alex Steve Frécinaux wrote: Jeff Waugh wrote: quote who=Jeff Waugh * Should we include Tomboy in the Desktop suite? (completely independently from the fact that it uses Gtk#/Mono) IIRC, there was an issue regarding Tomboy's icon (it was Tintin's head, which was both ugly and copyrighted). Was this one addressed or does it still use the same icon ? ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
Jeff Waugh wrote: * Without a doubt, Tomboy is pure awesome. * We don't have to integrate *everything* into the Desktop suite. That was never its purpose. The Desktop suite is all about the OOTB (out of the box) desktop user experience. I don't get it. Don't we want the out of the box desktop user experience to be pure awesome? -- Dan ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
quote who=Dan Winship Jeff Waugh wrote: * Without a doubt, Tomboy is pure awesome. * We don't have to integrate *everything* into the Desktop suite. That was never its purpose. The Desktop suite is all about the OOTB (out of the box) desktop user experience. I don't get it. Don't we want the out of the box desktop user experience to be pure awesome? You snipped out salient points between those two, and hinged the awesomeness of the Desktop suite on Tomboy's inclusion (it's already awesome - we don't need to jam everything in it to make it so). My answer to this is already in the list. :-) - Jeff -- linux.conf.au 2007: Sydney, Australia http://lca2007.linux.org.au/ I rather think of Pat as our linguistic ornithologist here - 'Oh look, the brown noddy also nests in the mangrove!' - John Fleck ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
lør, 22 07 2006 kl. 02:33 +1000, skrev Jeff Waugh: quote who=Jeff Waugh * Should we include Tomboy in the Desktop suite? (completely independently from the fact that it uses Gtk#/Mono) Hi, Here's my point of view, completely independent from the fact that Tomboy is built with Gtk#/Mono. Here it is in point form, because I seem to be doing pretty well with it: * Without a doubt, Tomboy is pure awesome. No argument from me, Tomboy is nothing short of life changing.. praise Alex! * Alex says that Tomboy doesn't replace Sticky Notes, he doesn't really want to migrate Sticky Notes data into Tomboy, and that Tomboy and Sticky Notes suit different use cases. We have a sticky notes application, wow, I haven't seen that exposed in any distro I've used lately. I think it's unlikely that users actually use this without having prior knowledge of it's existence. * In my experience, users perceive Tomboy and Sticky Notes to fulfill the same (or similar) function. To me Tomboy is mostly like Post-it notes-NG, I guess that makes it like sticky notes with the very useful twist that I can link them together. * We need a thrilling ecosystem of software that Works With GNOME! What does this have to do with Tomboy specifically, for now Works with GNOME seems to cover useful applications like Office suites, Music/Photo management, etc - all of which we probably need to do something about like the previously proposed tier system to give the user a certainty that a given application will in fact integrate with GNOME and use the data we expose where suitable - nothing is worse as a user than to install an application and having to configure it by hand because it somehow doesn't know about say e-d-s to get all your buddies or whatever. * We don't have to integrate *everything* into the Desktop suite. That was never its purpose. The Desktop suite is all about the OOTB (out of the box) desktop user experience. Yes and the out of box experience is currently not including several good and valid use cases like management of music and photos, office productivity, Instant messaging. It does however have VoIP and Low level system management this seems like a strange way of targeting a desktop to me, that might not be the case of other people. Having a certified GNOME application project might work as a entry level for GNOME. If we don't integrate everything or provide such a project, then how do we select what use cases cover the core of GNOME, in which case I guess GNOME would be the base libraries and a set of specified services for applications to hook up to. The issue seems to be that we risk turning GNOME into a distro since there's no such thing as a core desktop anymore (was there ever really?) and either we provide an ever increasing set of use cases or we provide a platform for vendors to hook into an have it all abide to the GNOME rules. * Innovation doesn't have to be jammed into the Desktop suite because we haven't found anywhere else to put it. We have to curtail this idea that the Desktop suite is the be-all and end-all of GNOME. Nobody really uses GNOME, everyone uses GNOME + whatever your vendor elects to fill the gaps with. Before we included Evolution everyone used it anyways since distros shipped it with their version of GNOME. The same goes for Rhythmbox and other services. * If Alex wants to adopt the GNOME release cycle and strategy for Tomboy, that's *fantastic*... but we can approach that differently. Tomboy being largely feature complete and stable would need mostly maintenance, this is up to Alex to sign on for though - Ekiga e.g. doesn't follow the GNOME cycle religiously either so long as it works with the desktop we ship and doesn't fall into an unmaintained state Tomboy should be fine. Following the cycle is mostly about: * deploying bugfixes * adopting platform changes * adding required features And being sure that users actually get this supportable version of your software in hand. * Let's give our users the ability to discover and cherish awesome third party software for GNOME. If we suck the known universe into the Desktop suite, our users won't be able to have that experience. And if vendors don't take the time to package these or convince talented users to do so, users won't have that experience either. Regardless my bet is that 99% of all people would just stick with whatever comes with their distro by default. That's the important target for applications that are outside of GNOME CORE, not the desktop release as such. Get in the vendor desktop or your chance of getting users decreases dramatically. * This is *not* meant to disenfranchise Tomboy or Alex, or make it seem as if Tomboy is a 'second class citizen' - far from it. Tomboy can be one of the first targets for us to fix that perception. Be GNOME, not Be in GNOME. Maybe we need to demote a whole lot of stuff instead, make GNOME just
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
Hi, To the first quoted point, I don't recall ever rejecting Sticky Note import. Quite the contrary, I've advocated that we use a first-run import wizard to aid migration. Serendipitously, in recent days, most of the major work for importing has been contributed by Sanford Armstrong in the form of a Tomboy plugin. Sanford's patch adds an item to the Tools menu labeled Import from Sticky Notes. But as this is perhaps not the nicest or most discoverable mechanism I'm trying to figure out how to best integrate this code for a nice experience. Comments welcome. To the second point, I have received very mixed response to the question of Tomboy's replacing of Sticky Notes. And we can see that mails to this list have expressed both points of view, with a slight bias towards the two coexisting (especially from those who actually use one tool or the other). I place myself in the coexist camp, mostly because the interaction models among the two tools are very different (again, Tomboy ain't sticky). A user who is used to Sticky Notes would be very confused if forced to use Tomboy, and vice versa. However, if the release committee believes that enforcing a single note-taking approach is what is best for the desktop, I think it makes sense to choose the solution which is novel, more scalable wrt the number of notes, less intrusive on user activity, supports richer note content, and which opens up possibilities for integration with other parts of the desktop. -Alex Jeff Waugh wrote: * Alex says that Tomboy doesn't replace Sticky Notes, he doesn't really want to migrate Sticky Notes data into Tomboy, and that Tomboy and Sticky Notes suit different use cases. * In my experience, users perceive Tomboy and Sticky Notes to fulfill the same (or similar) function. ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
On Sat, 2006-07-22 at 00:10 +0200, David Nielsen wrote: lør, 22 07 2006 kl. 02:33 +1000, skrev Jeff Waugh: * If Alex wants to adopt the GNOME release cycle and strategy for Tomboy, that's *fantastic*... but we can approach that differently. Tomboy being largely feature complete and stable would need mostly maintenance, this is up to Alex to sign on for though - Ekiga e.g. doesn't follow the GNOME cycle religiously either so long as it works with the desktop we ship and doesn't fall into an unmaintained state Tomboy should be fine. Following the cycle is mostly about: * deploying bugfixes * adopting platform changes * adding required features And being sure that users actually get this supportable version of your software in hand. * letting translators translate, unless the developers want to translate their program into 45 languages. * letting documentation writers write documentation, unless the developers want to do it. There are *many* advantages to a stable release cycle, and a number of those reasons have to do with the fact that the programmers are not the only people producing what we ship. -- Shaun ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
fre, 21 07 2006 kl. 17:57 -0500, skrev Shaun McCance: On Sat, 2006-07-22 at 00:10 +0200, David Nielsen wrote: lør, 22 07 2006 kl. 02:33 +1000, skrev Jeff Waugh: * If Alex wants to adopt the GNOME release cycle and strategy for Tomboy, that's *fantastic*... but we can approach that differently. Tomboy being largely feature complete and stable would need mostly maintenance, this is up to Alex to sign on for though - Ekiga e.g. doesn't follow the GNOME cycle religiously either so long as it works with the desktop we ship and doesn't fall into an unmaintained state Tomboy should be fine. Following the cycle is mostly about: * deploying bugfixes * adopting platform changes * adding required features And being sure that users actually get this supportable version of your software in hand. * letting translators translate, unless the developers want to translate their program into 45 languages. * letting documentation writers write documentation, unless the developers want to do it. There are *many* advantages to a stable release cycle, and a number of those reasons have to do with the fact that the programmers are not the only people producing what we ship. I feel ashamed now.. How could I forget translations when I'm on the Danish team - my bad. I'll go sit in a corner now - David ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
Here's my point of view, completely independent from the fact that Tomboy is built with Gtk#/Mono. Here it is in point form, because I seem to be doing pretty well with it: * Without a doubt, Tomboy is pure awesome. Yes * Alex says that Tomboy doesn't replace Sticky Notes, he doesn't really want to migrate Sticky Notes data into Tomboy, and that Tomboy and Sticky Notes suit different use cases. * In my experience, users perceive Tomboy and Sticky Notes to fulfill the same (or similar) function. This means that Alex (the author of Tomboy) is wrong. Users do not use two different programs to fulfill the same function. Saying otherwise is like saying that konsole and gnome-terminal suit different use cases. They do not, on a GNOME desktop, gnome-terminal whips konsole's butt. * We need a thrilling ecosystem of software that Works With GNOME! Yes. The question is which application do we put in that ecosystem, Tomboy or Sticky Notes? * We don't have to integrate *everything* into the Desktop suite. That was never its purpose. The Desktop suite is all about the OOTB (out of the box) desktop user experience. * Innovation doesn't have to be jammed into the Desktop suite because we haven't found anywhere else to put it. We have to curtail this idea that the Desktop suite is the be-all and end-all of GNOME. Tomboy isn't very innovative. It is just Post IT-notes on the desktop done right. * If Alex wants to adopt the GNOME release cycle and strategy for Tomboy, that's *fantastic*... but we can approach that differently. * Let's give our users the ability to discover and cherish awesome third party software for GNOME. If we suck the known universe into the Desktop suite, our users won't be able to have that experience. The way to do it is to decide what kind of features GNOME should have. Then suck in enough apps to fulfill those features. If there is more than one app that fulfills the same features, choose the BEST one and let the LESS GOOD one stay in the universe. What I'm not so subtly hinting at is that Tomboy is a better application than Sticky Notes. Much better. Sticky Notes is also a good application, but since Tomboy is better the right thing to do is to replace Sticky Notes with Tomboy. We are all technologists, we all love technology and we all want to make GNOME the best desktop there is. So IMHO, from a technological standpoint, the decision is clear. But in reality the discussion isn't clear (which is evident by us discussing it). I think that that thing that is stopping this decision from being clear is very bad because it interferes with the goal of making the best desktop there is. I don't know what the thing is but I'm guessing that it is something like Sticky Notes developer(s) will be disappointed if we drop it. That is unfortunate, but I think that is how it has to be. Better software replace less good software. I hope that in the future many other GNOME components that has potential substitutes will also be judged based on their technical merits: Metacity vs. Compiz Epiphany vs. Firefox Epiphany vs. Galeon Novell's new panel menu vs. The old one Beagle vs. The memory efficient C-coded search thingy Bugzilla vs. 100's of much better bug tracking apps. :) CVS vs. Subversion (already done! Woho!!) Rythmbox vs. Banshee etc... -- mvh Björn ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
Alex Graveley wrote: To the second point, I have received very mixed response to the question of Tomboy's replacing of Sticky Notes. And we can see that mails to this list have expressed both points of view, with a slight bias towards the two coexisting (especially from those who actually use one tool or the other). What about sharing the note storage between the two ? I feel like it's not possible for tomboy to use raw stickynotes data (since it has more information, like title and so on) but what about the other way round ? ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
Re: Tomboy in Desktop
Notes in Sticky Notes are modal meaning they are all displayed on the screen or they are all hidden. I currently have 307 Tomboy notes :-) -Alex Steve Frécinaux wrote: What about sharing the note storage between the two ? I feel like it's not possible for tomboy to use raw stickynotes data (since it has more information, like title and so on) but what about the other way round ? ___ desktop-devel-list mailing list desktop-devel-list@gnome.org http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/desktop-devel-list
