RE: workflow block commited
Hi Gianugo, I'm personnaly not the one with the OSWorkflow experience. I'll ask the right person to post his experiences. Arje -Original Message- From: Gianugo Rabellino [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Posted At: Monday, March 01, 2004 7:42 PM Posted To: Cocoon Dev List Conversation: workflow block commited Subject: Re: workflow block commited Arje Cahn wrote: I'm interested in a workflow block as well. We currently have experience using OpenSymphony Workflow and would like to share this on the Cocoon list. Please do. I'm really interested in that, I don't quite get what all this workflow fuss is about, so it would be good to know how you're integrating external workflow engines in a publishing environment. Ciao, -- Gianugo Rabellino Pro-netics s.r.l. - http://www.pro-netics.com Orixo, the XML business alliance - http://www.orixo.com (Blogging at: http://www.rabellino.it/blog/)
RE: workflow block commited
Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote: Carsten Ziegeler wrote: I see the following minimum todo list from the Cocoon POV: - Use the Avalon Logging instead of log4j directly - Use Avalon components - Move to the source resolver instead of directly reading files - Don't use the Xerces XPath API directly, use Avalon XPath component - The same with the parser I don't see any Cocoon specific component in the workflow block. Can you add some Cocoon specific ones and some minimum docs on how to use it? thanks for the list! i'll add it to a TODO file inside the block. I think these issues have to be address before the next release, together with a minimum docs and a sample. I expect another release of Cocoon in two or three weeks! Without the above changes, this block doesn't really fit into Cocoon. In fact nothing Cocoon specific is used, so have you considered to move the block to a more common place, e.h. jakarta-commons or something like that? Carsten
Re: workflow block commited
Carsten Ziegeler wrote: I think these issues have to be address before the next release, together with a minimum docs and a sample. agreed I expect another release of Cocoon in two or three weeks! Without the above changes, this block doesn't really fit into Cocoon. In fact nothing Cocoon specific is used, so have you considered to move the block to a more common place, e.h. jakarta-commons or something like that? why don't we move it into the Lenya module and work there on the list which was suggested by Carsten? Cocoon committers also have access to the Lenya module and it seems to me that Cocoon committers know by now that this block exists ;-) As soon as we have addressed the issues we can try moving it back into the Cocoon module. WDYT? Michi Carsten - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: workflow block commited
Michael Wechner wrote: why don't we move it into the Lenya module and work there on the list which was suggested by Carsten? By me? :) Big +10 Carsten
Re: workflow block commited
Michael Wechner wrote: Carsten Ziegeler wrote: I think these issues have to be address before the next release, together with a minimum docs and a sample. agreed I expect another release of Cocoon in two or three weeks! Without the above changes, this block doesn't really fit into Cocoon. In fact nothing Cocoon specific is used, so have you considered to move the block to a more common place, e.h. jakarta-commons or something like that? why don't we move it into the Lenya module and work there on the list which was suggested by Carsten? Cocoon committers also have access to the Lenya module and it seems to me that Cocoon committers know by now that this block exists ;-) As soon as we have addressed the issues we can try moving it back into the Cocoon module. I think it should be in the Lenya module, ideally set up to function as a block, and stay there until there is good reason to move it elsewhere. If the code is built well, and works well as a block, then I don't see that it matters too much to a user of the functionality where it is. However, from a community perspective, the block's most active maintainers are here on Lenya, and as you can see, to keep it in Cocoon would require you guys to come over to Cocoon-dev and play a more active part in the development process there. Now that might happen, but it's not really there yet. So, keep it in Lenya. Hopefully, as time progresses, Lenya will get a Cocoon style block system, that just extends Cocoon's build system. And with that, you can have more and more of your stuff as reusable blocks held within Lenya. I would say, to really get that going, you need to find a way to get a build process that is more aligned with the Cocoon one. Regards, Upayavira
RE: workflow block commited
Michael Wechner wrote: why don't we move it into the Lenya module and work there on the list which was suggested by Carsten? By me? :) sorry, for my bad english, but I meant the list with the issues to be addressed, or did somebody else suggest this list? Maybe I am confusing things ;-) Big +10 it seems to me that most Cocooners would like to move this block back to Lenya, at least for the moment. So I would suggest that we move it. Michi Carsten
RE: workflow block commited
Michael Wechner wrote: why don't we move it into the Lenya module and work there on the list which was suggested by Carsten? By me? :) sorry, for my bad english, but I meant the list with the issues to be addressed, or did somebody else suggest this list? Maybe I am confusing things ;-) No, I confused them...someday I will really start learning english, promised (ten fingers crossed behind my back). Yes, the list is from me :) Big +10 it seems to me that most Cocooners would like to move this block back to Lenya, at least for the moment. So I would suggest that we move it. You have access to the Cocoon cvs. Do whatever you think is appropriate. Thanks Carsten
Re: workflow block commited
Hi, On 1 Mar 2004, at 18:25, Arje Cahn wrote: I'm interested in a workflow block as well. We currently have experience using OpenSymphony Workflow and would like to share this on the Cocoon list. I'm excited to see the workflow block appearing (yes, I need to get a life!). Arje, have you any experience of the Codehaus Werkflow [1] approach? I'd be interested to know how it compares with OpenSymphony. How does the lenya workflow block cope with existing workflow standards such as BPEL[2] or XPDL [3]? [1] http://werkflow.codehaus.org/ [2] http://www-106.ibm.com/developerworks/webservices/library/ws-bpel/ [3] http://purl.oclc.org/NET/xpdl Thanks, Andrew. -- Andrew Savory, Managing Director, Luminas Limited Tel: +44 (0)870 741 6658 Fax: +44 (0)700 598 1135 Web: http://www.luminas.co.uk/ Orixo alliance: http://www.orixo.com/
Re: workflow block commited
Carsten Ziegeler wrote: I see the following minimum todo list from the Cocoon POV: - Use the Avalon Logging instead of log4j directly - Use Avalon components - Move to the source resolver instead of directly reading files - Don't use the Xerces XPath API directly, use Avalon XPath component - The same with the parser I don't see any Cocoon specific component in the workflow block. Can you add some Cocoon specific ones and some minimum docs on how to use it? thanks for the list! i'll add it to a TODO file inside the block. -gregor -- Gregor J. Rothfuss Wyona Inc. - Open Source Content Management - Apache Lenya http://wyona.com http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: workflow block commited
Gregor, thanks! Arje the lenya community has developed a lightweight workflow that we thought would make more sense as a cocoon block, especially given that other cms built on cocoon have shown interest in using it (hi arje :). i split out the generic part and made it into a (unstable) block. it is disabled by default. discussion == http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/BrowseList?listName=lenya-d [EMAIL PROTECTED]by=threadfrom=653774 documentation = http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/docs/components/workflow/terms.html http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/docs/components/workflow/state-machine.html http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/docs/components/workflow/configuration.html http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/docs/components/workflow/implementation.html http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=LenyaWorkflow http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=LenyaWorkflowAPI issues == * the block only compiles with jdk 1.4 (it uses assertions) you need to set source=1.4 in ant to make it compile.. * there are currently no samples to do = * remove assertions? * build a sample based on usage within lenya lenya integration is done via: http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/apidocs/org/apache/lenya/cms/workflow/package-summary.html for the lenya integration * change package from o.a.lenya.workflow to o.a.cocoon.workflow * move o.a.lenya.xml classes somewhere else? we are looking forward to your comments :) I reasonate with this todo list :-) But I think a small sample OUTSIDE of a Lenya context would be good. I would be grateful for a description of a simple use case (so a generalized workflow abstraction may be discussed) how this workflow package is intended to be used. Maybe Carsten's concerns can be eased a little by growing from this simple use case rather than throwing in a rather complex (though you say lightweight) package. Thanks Guido
RE: workflow block commited
-Original Message- From: news [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Andreas Hartmann Sent: Monday, March 01, 2004 10:41 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: workflow block commited Currently there isn't really someone against this donation here at Cocoon. Although the people that support it are very silent... Anyways, as I just said, please ask the next time on the Cocoon list before you submit a new block. Thanks. If this block stays at Cocoon you have to rename the packages from o.a.lenya to o.a.cocoon Thanks Carsten Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote: hi, the lenya community has developed a lightweight workflow that we thought would make more sense as a cocoon block, especially given that other cms built on cocoon have shown interest in using it (hi arje :). i split out the generic part and made it into a (unstable) block. it is disabled by default. Thanks, Gregor! I don't want to be impatient, but can we consider the block as accepted and remove the code from Lenya now? Otherwise, we should remove it from Cocoon. I'd like to avoid maintaining it on both locations.
RE: workflow block commited
Andreas Hartmann wrote: Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote: hi, the lenya community has developed a lightweight workflow that we thought would make more sense as a cocoon block, especially given that other cms built on cocoon have shown interest in using it (hi arje :). i split out the generic part and made it into a (unstable) block. it is disabled by default. BTW, I think we should remove the o.a.l.xml sources and instead add a lenya.jar library including this code. You mean adding a lenya.jar to Cocoon? If so, I'm -1 on this as I don't want circular dependencies! Carsten
Re: workflow block commited
Carsten Ziegeler wrote: [...] BTW, I think we should remove the o.a.l.xml sources and instead add a lenya.jar library including this code. You mean adding a lenya.jar to Cocoon? If so, I'm -1 on this as I don't want circular dependencies! Yes, this sounds reasonable. So we have to remove the dependencies to the Lenya XML classes, or is there another solution? -- Andreas
Re: workflow block commited
Carsten Ziegeler wrote: [...] Currently there isn't really someone against this donation here at Cocoon. Although the people that support it are very silent... Anyways, as I just said, please ask the next time on the Cocoon list before you submit a new block. Thanks. OK. If this block stays at Cocoon Is there a vote regarding this? Should we start one? you have to rename the packages from o.a.lenya to o.a.cocoon OK. What about the license? -- Andreas
RE: workflow block commited
Carsten Ziegeler [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Currently there isn't really someone against this donation here at Cocoon. Although the people that support it are very silent... Anyways, as I just said, please ask the next time on the Cocoon list before you submit a new block. Thanks. We'd be interested in taking a look at it. Likely in the fall time frame, but we need to do workflow this year, and it would be great to have a Cocoon block to start from before we get there (for once). (So far we've ended up with our own proprietary implementation of forms and event caching before a Cocoon implementation stabilized.) If this block stays at Cocoon you have to rename the packages from o.a.lenya to o.a.cocoon Thanks Carsten Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote: hi, the lenya community has developed a lightweight workflow that we thought would make more sense as a cocoon block, especially given that other cms built on cocoon have shown interest in using it (hi arje :). i split out the generic part and made it into a (unstable) block. it is disabled by default. Thanks, Gregor! I don't want to be impatient, but can we consider the block as accepted and remove the code from Lenya now? Otherwise, we should remove it from Cocoon. I'd like to avoid maintaining it on both locations.
RE: workflow block commited
Currently there isn't really someone against this donation here at Cocoon. Although the people that support it are very silent... Anyways, as I just said, please ask the next time on the Cocoon list before you submit a new block. Thanks. We'd be interested in taking a look at it. Likely in the fall time frame, but we need to do workflow this year, and it would be great to have a Cocoon block to start from before we get there (for once). (So far we've ended up with our own proprietary implementation of forms and event caching before a Cocoon implementation stabilized.) I'm interested in a workflow block as well. We currently have experience using OpenSymphony Workflow and would like to share this on the Cocoon list. Arjé Hippo
Re: workflow block commited
Arje Cahn wrote: I'm interested in a workflow block as well. We currently have experience using OpenSymphony Workflow and would like to share this on the Cocoon list. Please do. I'm really interested in that, I don't quite get what all this workflow fuss is about, so it would be good to know how you're integrating external workflow engines in a publishing environment. Ciao, -- Gianugo Rabellino Pro-netics s.r.l. - http://www.pro-netics.com Orixo, the XML business alliance - http://www.orixo.com (Blogging at: http://www.rabellino.it/blog/)
RE: workflow block commited
Gregor J. Rothfuss dijo: the lenya community has developed a lightweight workflow that we thought would make more sense as a cocoon block, especially given that other cms built on cocoon have shown interest in using it I see the following minimum todo list from the Cocoon POV: - Use the Avalon Logging instead of log4j directly - Use Avalon components - Move to the source resolver instead of directly reading files - Don't use the Xerces XPath API directly, use Avalon XPath component - The same with the parser I don't see any Cocoon specific component in the workflow block. Can you add some Cocoon specific ones and some minimum docs on how to use it? Thanks Carsten
Re: workflow block commited
Gregor J. Rothfuss wrote: hi, the lenya community has developed a lightweight workflow that we thought would make more sense as a cocoon block, especially given that other cms built on cocoon have shown interest in using it (hi arje :). i split out the generic part and made it into a (unstable) block. it is disabled by default. discussion == http://nagoya.apache.org/eyebrowse/[EMAIL PROTECTED]by=threadfrom=653774 documentation = http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/docs/components/workflow/terms.html http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/docs/components/workflow/state-machine.html http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/docs/components/workflow/configuration.html http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/docs/components/workflow/implementation.html http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=LenyaWorkflow http://wiki.cocoondev.org/Wiki.jsp?page=LenyaWorkflowAPI issues == * the block only compiles with jdk 1.4 (it uses assertions) you need to set source=1.4 in ant to make it compile.. * there are currently no samples to do = * remove assertions? * build a sample based on usage within lenya lenya integration is done via: http://cocoon.apache.org/lenya/apidocs/org/apache/lenya/cms/workflow/package-summary.html for the lenya integration * change package from o.a.lenya.workflow to o.a.cocoon.workflow * move o.a.lenya.xml classes somewhere else? we are looking forward to your comments :) I reasonate with this todo list :-) But I think a small sample OUTSIDE of a Lenya context would be good. I would be grateful for a description of a simple use case (so a generalized workflow abstraction may be discussed) how this workflow package is intended to be used. Maybe Carsten's concerns can be eased a little by growing from this simple use case rather than throwing in a rather complex (though you say lightweight) package. Thanks Guido
