Re: First stab at Next Steps article
I went through this morning and addressed most of the comments that people left (sorry Ray, hope you don't mind!). I think this guide is really shaping up and starting to look great. The only thing really left to resolve is some details around recommending FastClick or not using touch events at all. We can let it simmer for a few more days, then I can push it into the docs (unless somebody else wants to.) On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 9:57 PM, Carlos Santana csantan...@gmail.com wrote: Mike, spajs.io didn't get the track we wanted, so we ended putting the content here: *Best practices for mobile app development* https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mobile/worklight/best-practices.html We created this because we often got questioned What are the best practices when doing hybrid mobile Apps? And I think folks got tired of us answering Well it depends on many factors :-). So this is a first version on attempting to answer Ray The resources are 99.9% none-ibm product related (I say 99.9%, there one doc about our product :-) ). The goal of the resources was to make it mobile focus including mobile web and mobile hybrid. Please review and see if it worthy to included the link as a reference under Other resources, if not I will not be offended. On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 6:39 PM, Carlos Santana csantan...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry I'm late to the party, being trapped on a work conference all week. - Ray, thanks for starting this I'm interested on helping also, I know is difficult on not being opinionated when giving advice base on our own experiences, and that sometimes folks looking for solutions to problems there is a fine line to walk between a web dev concern and a cordova dev concern. I think is good such type of documentation coming from our group, its not about the tool, company, framework, sdk vendor is about the end to end developer experience when a developer decides to use hybrid (coding, testing, debugging, integrating, releasing) which the expectation that their web dev skills should be enough, but the reality is that there is a little more effort when dealing with hybrid which Cordova is here to help with code, education, collaboration. - Brian I think you walked into the trap :-), But good to remind folks how we got here, and where we are heading (i.e. close the gap between web dev and mobile dev) If someone is an awesome web dev should be able to create awesome mobile apps with those skills On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Brian LeRoux b...@brian.io wrote: Oh no you don't. This is YOUR baby to maintain. =) On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 6:59 AM, Ray Camden rayca...@adobe.com wrote: I've gotten a lot of good feedback. My plan is to review, update, etc, and see if it feels like a good 1.0 release for Monday at which point yall can take it over. From: kerrisho...@gmail.com kerrisho...@gmail.com on behalf of Kerri Shotts ke...@photokandy.com Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 12:05 AM To: dev@cordova.apache.org Subject: Re: First stab at Next Steps article Awesome work thus far, and a good idea to have, imo. Getting to hello, world is great, but having a jumping-off point for how to proceed after that fact would be very beneficial. I added a few comments to the document, and also contributed some sections on upgrading projects/plugins and testing. If anything there is too much detail, wrong, or not desired in this document, feel free to remove as needed. :-) If an ICLA is needed for what I added, one is on its way. I've been meaning to send one anyway, but time keeps getting away from me! -- Carlos Santana csantan...@gmail.com -- Carlos Santana csantan...@gmail.com
RE: First stab at Next Steps article
Yes, I'm mad you did this work for me. ;) I'm a bit behind so this is perfect, thank you. I still plan on checking over things today and seeing if it is ready to submit to Cordova for the initial doc. Thanks! From: Mike Billau mike.bil...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 10:31 AM To: dev@cordova.apache.org Subject: Re: First stab at Next Steps article I went through this morning and addressed most of the comments that people left (sorry Ray, hope you don't mind!). I think this guide is really shaping up and starting to look great. The only thing really left to resolve is some details around recommending FastClick or not using touch events at all. We can let it simmer for a few more days, then I can push it into the docs (unless somebody else wants to.) On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 9:57 PM, Carlos Santana csantan...@gmail.com wrote:
RE: First stab at Next Steps article
I'm going to turn off shared access - just while I do my review review (in case folks try to load it up). From: Ray Camden rayca...@adobe.com Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 10:56 AM To: dev@cordova.apache.org Subject: RE: First stab at Next Steps article Yes, I'm mad you did this work for me. ;) I'm a bit behind so this is perfect, thank you. I still plan on checking over things today and seeing if it is ready to submit to Cordova for the initial doc. Thanks! From: Mike Billau mike.bil...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 10:31 AM To: dev@cordova.apache.org Subject: Re: First stab at Next Steps article I went through this morning and addressed most of the comments that people left (sorry Ray, hope you don't mind!). I think this guide is really shaping up and starting to look great. The only thing really left to resolve is some details around recommending FastClick or not using touch events at all. We can let it simmer for a few more days, then I can push it into the docs (unless somebody else wants to.) On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 9:57 PM, Carlos Santana csantan...@gmail.com wrote:
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
I don't suppose there is an export to Markdown? In any case should be easy to convert somehow. I would think this would go in cordova-docs On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 11:52 AM, Ray Camden rayca...@adobe.com wrote: Ok - this feels like a kick ass document thanks to everyone who helped. To folks in charge: I'm more than willing to be responsible for this going forward, but what is the best way to get it off of my Google Doc and into your hands? FYI,I missed Mike's note below. Mike, I think I'm ok with the FastClick stuff, even w/ possible side issues. Do you want to take care of pushing it to the docs? (If it is just the right repo, then I can do a PR as well.) The only thing really left to resolve is some details around recommending FastClick or not using touch events at all. We can let it simmer for a few more days, then I can push it into the docs (unless somebody else wants to.) On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 9:57 PM, Carlos Santana csantan...@gmail.com wrote:
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Ray, why don't you do a PR to /cordova-docs? That way the initial commit will (should?) have your name on it. We should also update /cordova-docs/index.md and add a link to the guide so that it will appear in the left hand list on docs.cordova.io as a top level guide. I think a good spot would be between Using Plugman to Manage Plugins and The config.xml File. I think I have a VM floating around somewhere that is able to build the docs, so I can use that to test that the link works and page renders fine, unless somebody else can spin one up quicker. On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 2:59 PM, Shazron shaz...@gmail.com wrote: I don't suppose there is an export to Markdown? In any case should be easy to convert somehow. I would think this would go in cordova-docs On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 11:52 AM, Ray Camden rayca...@adobe.com wrote: Ok - this feels like a kick ass document thanks to everyone who helped. To folks in charge: I'm more than willing to be responsible for this going forward, but what is the best way to get it off of my Google Doc and into your hands? FYI,I missed Mike's note below. Mike, I think I'm ok with the FastClick stuff, even w/ possible side issues. Do you want to take care of pushing it to the docs? (If it is just the right repo, then I can do a PR as well.) The only thing really left to resolve is some details around recommending FastClick or not using touch events at all. We can let it simmer for a few more days, then I can push it into the docs (unless somebody else wants to.) On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 9:57 PM, Carlos Santana csantan...@gmail.com wrote:
RE: First stab at Next Steps article
I can do so soon. From: Mike Billau mike.bil...@gmail.com Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 2:02 PM To: dev@cordova.apache.org Subject: Re: First stab at Next Steps article Ray, why don't you do a PR to /cordova-docs? That way the initial commit will (should?) have your name on it. We should also update /cordova-docs/index.md and add a link to the guide so that it will appear in the left hand list on docs.cordova.io as a top level guide. I think a good spot would be between Using Plugman to Manage Plugins and The config.xml File. I think I have a VM floating around somewhere that is able to build the docs, so I can use that to test that the link works and page renders fine, unless somebody else can spin one up quicker.
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
+1. Its well beyond time you landed a commit or two into Cordova Ray! On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 12:02 PM, Mike Billau mike.bil...@gmail.com wrote: Ray, why don't you do a PR to /cordova-docs? That way the initial commit will (should?) have your name on it. We should also update /cordova-docs/index.md and add a link to the guide so that it will appear in the left hand list on docs.cordova.io as a top level guide. I think a good spot would be between Using Plugman to Manage Plugins and The config.xml File. I think I have a VM floating around somewhere that is able to build the docs, so I can use that to test that the link works and page renders fine, unless somebody else can spin one up quicker. On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 2:59 PM, Shazron shaz...@gmail.com wrote: I don't suppose there is an export to Markdown? In any case should be easy to convert somehow. I would think this would go in cordova-docs On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 11:52 AM, Ray Camden rayca...@adobe.com wrote: Ok - this feels like a kick ass document thanks to everyone who helped. To folks in charge: I'm more than willing to be responsible for this going forward, but what is the best way to get it off of my Google Doc and into your hands? FYI,I missed Mike's note below. Mike, I think I'm ok with the FastClick stuff, even w/ possible side issues. Do you want to take care of pushing it to the docs? (If it is just the right repo, then I can do a PR as well.) The only thing really left to resolve is some details around recommending FastClick or not using touch events at all. We can let it simmer for a few more days, then I can push it into the docs (unless somebody else wants to.) On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 9:57 PM, Carlos Santana csantan...@gmail.com wrote:
RE: First stab at Next Steps article
PR submitted. ICLA submitted. From: brian.ler...@gmail.com brian.ler...@gmail.com on behalf of Brian LeRoux b...@brian.io Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 2:13 PM To: dev@cordova.apache.org Subject: Re: First stab at Next Steps article +1. Its well beyond time you landed a commit or two into Cordova Ray! On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 12:02 PM, Mike Billau mike.bil...@gmail.com wrote: Ray, why don't you do a PR to /cordova-docs? That way the initial commit will (should?) have your name on it.
RE: First stab at Next Steps article
This document looks great. I like the idea of having a single place for advice on performance and improving app development in general. It might be nice to have a section on jQuery specific Cordova improvements. For example, this article: http://demos.jquerymobile.com/1.1.0/docs/pages/phonegap.html touches on tricks developers can use for Cordova apps using jQuery. I don't really like how in the closing section we point people to the phonegap google group despite us trying to grow our presence on StackOverflow. My vote would be to remove that section of the document. If someone really wants to find the phonegap google group or needs an answer they can't find on stackoverflow they can probably find it on their own by googling. But promoting the Phonegap google group seems to go against what we're working for as far as name recognition with Cordova (already had a discussion about this for the main site and the conclusion was to remove phonegap). Not to mention all of the apache way reasons it's a no-no. That being said, love the idea behind this document. Once it's pushed to the doc site let me know and I'll pull into Crowdin for our translators! Lisa Lisa Seacat DeLuca Mobile Engineer | t: +415.787.4589 | ldel...@apache.org | | ldel...@us.ibm.com | lisaseacat.com | | From: Ray Camden rayca...@adobe.com To: dev@cordova.apache.org dev@cordova.apache.org Date: 05/05/2014 04:34 PM Subject:RE: First stab at Next Steps article PR submitted. ICLA submitted. From: brian.ler...@gmail.com brian.ler...@gmail.com on behalf of Brian LeRoux b...@brian.io Sent: Monday, May 05, 2014 2:13 PM To: dev@cordova.apache.org Subject: Re: First stab at Next Steps article +1. Its well beyond time you landed a commit or two into Cordova Ray! On Mon, May 5, 2014 at 12:02 PM, Mike Billau mike.bil...@gmail.com wrote: Ray, why don't you do a PR to /cordova-docs? That way the initial commit will (should?) have your name on it.
RE: First stab at Next Steps article
I've gotten a lot of good feedback. My plan is to review, update, etc, and see if it feels like a good 1.0 release for Monday at which point yall can take it over. From: kerrisho...@gmail.com kerrisho...@gmail.com on behalf of Kerri Shotts ke...@photokandy.com Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 12:05 AM To: dev@cordova.apache.org Subject: Re: First stab at Next Steps article Awesome work thus far, and a good idea to have, imo. Getting to hello, world is great, but having a jumping-off point for how to proceed after that fact would be very beneficial. I added a few comments to the document, and also contributed some sections on upgrading projects/plugins and testing. If anything there is too much detail, wrong, or not desired in this document, feel free to remove as needed. :-) If an ICLA is needed for what I added, one is on its way. I've been meaning to send one anyway, but time keeps getting away from me!
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Oh no you don't. This is YOUR baby to maintain. =) On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 6:59 AM, Ray Camden rayca...@adobe.com wrote: I've gotten a lot of good feedback. My plan is to review, update, etc, and see if it feels like a good 1.0 release for Monday at which point yall can take it over. From: kerrisho...@gmail.com kerrisho...@gmail.com on behalf of Kerri Shotts ke...@photokandy.com Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 12:05 AM To: dev@cordova.apache.org Subject: Re: First stab at Next Steps article Awesome work thus far, and a good idea to have, imo. Getting to hello, world is great, but having a jumping-off point for how to proceed after that fact would be very beneficial. I added a few comments to the document, and also contributed some sections on upgrading projects/plugins and testing. If anything there is too much detail, wrong, or not desired in this document, feel free to remove as needed. :-) If an ICLA is needed for what I added, one is on its way. I've been meaning to send one anyway, but time keeps getting away from me!
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Sorry I'm late to the party, being trapped on a work conference all week. - Ray, thanks for starting this I'm interested on helping also, I know is difficult on not being opinionated when giving advice base on our own experiences, and that sometimes folks looking for solutions to problems there is a fine line to walk between a web dev concern and a cordova dev concern. I think is good such type of documentation coming from our group, its not about the tool, company, framework, sdk vendor is about the end to end developer experience when a developer decides to use hybrid (coding, testing, debugging, integrating, releasing) which the expectation that their web dev skills should be enough, but the reality is that there is a little more effort when dealing with hybrid which Cordova is here to help with code, education, collaboration. - Brian I think you walked into the trap :-), But good to remind folks how we got here, and where we are heading (i.e. close the gap between web dev and mobile dev) If someone is an awesome web dev should be able to create awesome mobile apps with those skills On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Brian LeRoux b...@brian.io wrote: Oh no you don't. This is YOUR baby to maintain. =) On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 6:59 AM, Ray Camden rayca...@adobe.com wrote: I've gotten a lot of good feedback. My plan is to review, update, etc, and see if it feels like a good 1.0 release for Monday at which point yall can take it over. From: kerrisho...@gmail.com kerrisho...@gmail.com on behalf of Kerri Shotts ke...@photokandy.com Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 12:05 AM To: dev@cordova.apache.org Subject: Re: First stab at Next Steps article Awesome work thus far, and a good idea to have, imo. Getting to hello, world is great, but having a jumping-off point for how to proceed after that fact would be very beneficial. I added a few comments to the document, and also contributed some sections on upgrading projects/plugins and testing. If anything there is too much detail, wrong, or not desired in this document, feel free to remove as needed. :-) If an ICLA is needed for what I added, one is on its way. I've been meaning to send one anyway, but time keeps getting away from me! -- Carlos Santana csantan...@gmail.com
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Mike, spajs.io didn't get the track we wanted, so we ended putting the content here: *Best practices for mobile app development* https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/mobile/worklight/best-practices.html We created this because we often got questioned What are the best practices when doing hybrid mobile Apps? And I think folks got tired of us answering Well it depends on many factors :-). So this is a first version on attempting to answer Ray The resources are 99.9% none-ibm product related (I say 99.9%, there one doc about our product :-) ). The goal of the resources was to make it mobile focus including mobile web and mobile hybrid. Please review and see if it worthy to included the link as a reference under Other resources, if not I will not be offended. On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 6:39 PM, Carlos Santana csantan...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry I'm late to the party, being trapped on a work conference all week. - Ray, thanks for starting this I'm interested on helping also, I know is difficult on not being opinionated when giving advice base on our own experiences, and that sometimes folks looking for solutions to problems there is a fine line to walk between a web dev concern and a cordova dev concern. I think is good such type of documentation coming from our group, its not about the tool, company, framework, sdk vendor is about the end to end developer experience when a developer decides to use hybrid (coding, testing, debugging, integrating, releasing) which the expectation that their web dev skills should be enough, but the reality is that there is a little more effort when dealing with hybrid which Cordova is here to help with code, education, collaboration. - Brian I think you walked into the trap :-), But good to remind folks how we got here, and where we are heading (i.e. close the gap between web dev and mobile dev) If someone is an awesome web dev should be able to create awesome mobile apps with those skills On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 12:07 PM, Brian LeRoux b...@brian.io wrote: Oh no you don't. This is YOUR baby to maintain. =) On Fri, May 2, 2014 at 6:59 AM, Ray Camden rayca...@adobe.com wrote: I've gotten a lot of good feedback. My plan is to review, update, etc, and see if it feels like a good 1.0 release for Monday at which point yall can take it over. From: kerrisho...@gmail.com kerrisho...@gmail.com on behalf of Kerri Shotts ke...@photokandy.com Sent: Friday, May 02, 2014 12:05 AM To: dev@cordova.apache.org Subject: Re: First stab at Next Steps article Awesome work thus far, and a good idea to have, imo. Getting to hello, world is great, but having a jumping-off point for how to proceed after that fact would be very beneficial. I added a few comments to the document, and also contributed some sections on upgrading projects/plugins and testing. If anything there is too much detail, wrong, or not desired in this document, feel free to remove as needed. :-) If an ICLA is needed for what I added, one is on its way. I've been meaning to send one anyway, but time keeps getting away from me! -- Carlos Santana csantan...@gmail.com -- Carlos Santana csantan...@gmail.com
RE: First stab at Next Steps article
I like his article - but don't think jQM is as bad as others do. (Disclaimer - I wrote a book on jQM.) From: tommy-carlos williams to...@devgeeks.org Sent: Wednesday, April 30, 2014 4:14 PM To: dev@cordova.apache.org Subject: Re: First stab at Next Steps article Ray, This looks great. Interesting choice to both link Brock’s “you half-assed it” article *and* list jQM first in the list of UI libs... :)
RE: First stab at Next Steps article
Replies with RKC. 1. Please don't mention WebSQL. RKC: Heh, well, it *works*, but yeah, ok, removed to make it more generic. 2. The offline/online event is not a great indicator, it's a hint, but it can be misleading. People need to try a connection (XHR) to their destination, if it works, great, if it doesn't that's it. If I'm in a captive portal, or if I'm in an office, I can easily not have access to your backend, even though I do have some form of network access. RKC: I'm going to add a bit of text to ensure folks know it isn't perfect, and mention the XHR suggestion, but the big point I think is doing *something*. 3. For Debugging, on BlackBerry 10, you get web inspector out of the box. https://developer.blackberry.com/html5/documentation/v2_0/enabling_web_insp ector.html https://developer.blackberry.com/html5/documentation/v2_0/debugging_using_w eb_inspector.html RKC: Not to diminish BB, but I added a final subsection called Other Options and used this as a bullet. I assume we can just add more there. If folks feel this should be a top level item in the section, go ahead. :) 4. I think we decided to favor stack overflow over google groups RKC: I think both have merit though. If folks feel strongly I can swap em. 5. s/you simulator the accelerometer to test shake events/you simulate the accelerometer to test shake events/ — this last one means you should introduce the document to WinWord and ask it for an opinion :). RKC: Nod, will do a grammar check before we officially hand this off to - whomever - to integrate. Actually - I have an official editor via Adobe for my blog - I may be able to use him.
RE: First stab at Next Steps article
Personally, version control feels more like something that should in a FAQ than this doc, but this isn't my call, if you feel like it should be added, do it. :) Should we add a section about version control? I see that question asked from time to time: What should I be checking in?, this could also be expanded to tips for working on a team (what happens when one person uses OSX and the other Windows) - although that is a more advanced use case. Maybe we can change the Handling Upgrades section to Handling Source Code and Cordova Upgrades. On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 5:40 PM, Andrew Grieve agri...@chromium.org wrote: On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 5:28 PM, Josh Soref jso...@blackberry.com wrote: Ray Camden wrote: I had 3 hours here at the airport so I took at stab at writing content for the Next Steps document. You can find (and edit) the document here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uJ5qXqQxK2oh1eZPgMdYuhK2rQTB7QMHXUHbkc omWgk/edit# Personally, I favor ether pads / pirate pads. The main thing missing now (imo) is the Upgrade section. I think with that added - this is in a good place (at least initially). Thoughts, opinions, etc? I like it. Any volunteers ready to write out the upgrade section? I don't want to set up a Google account at work, but FYI - you don't need an account to edit a doc that's made editable via those with the link (as this one is). 1. Please don't mention WebSQL. 2. The offline/online event is not a great indicator, it's a hint, but it can be misleading. People need to try a connection (XHR) to their destination, if it works, great, if it doesn't that's it. If I'm in a captive portal, or if I'm in an office, I can easily not have access to your backend, even though I do have some form of network access. 3. For Debugging, on BlackBerry 10, you get web inspector out of the box. https://developer.blackberry.com/html5/documentation/v2_0/enabling_web_insp ector.html https://developer.blackberry.com/html5/documentation/v2_0/debugging_using_w eb_inspector.html 4. I think we decided to favor stack overflow over google groups 5. s/you simulator the accelerometer to test shake events/you simulate the accelerometer to test shake events/ — this last one means you should introduce the document to WinWord and ask it for an opinion :).
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
On May 1, 2014, at 8:47 AM, Ray Camden rayca...@adobe.com wrote: 1. Please don't mention WebSQL. RKC: Heh, well, it *works*, but yeah, ok, removed to make it more generic. Why? None of my apps work without it. I only care about ios and android and websql is there. The day they remove it I will replace it with a pair of phonegap plugins and sqlite. I think other platforms should have this capability too FWIW. To me - phonegap is the ultimate screw you to the squabbling web browser companies. We will route around you if you get in our way. I think WebSQL should be a standard phonegap plugin (and it was in the early days wasn't it?).
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 1:17 PM, Freak Show freaksho...@me.com wrote: On May 1, 2014, at 8:47 AM, Ray Camden rayca...@adobe.com wrote: 1. Please don't mention WebSQL. RKC: Heh, well, it *works*, but yeah, ok, removed to make it more generic. Why? None of my apps work without it. We aren't removing WebSQL, we are just removing it mention from the introductory guidance doc. I only care about ios and android and websql is there. The day they remove it I will replace it with a pair of phonegap plugins and sqlite. I think other platforms should have this capability too FWIW. To me - phonegap is the ultimate screw you to the squabbling web browser companies. We will route around you if you get in our way. Wow. I think WebSQL should be a standard phonegap plugin (and it was in the early days wasn't it?).
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
I'm kind of software is politics - screw the man that way. ;-) And I'm not really interested in working on cordova core but I'll write plugins all day as long as it is easy to do and the apis stay stable and browser limitations are in my way. On May 1, 2014, at 10:20 AM, Michal Mocny mmo...@chromium.org wrote: Wow.
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
WebSQL is deprecated by browsers. We're here to support the web not route around it. On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 10:20 AM, Michal Mocny mmo...@chromium.org wrote: On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 1:17 PM, Freak Show freaksho...@me.com wrote: On May 1, 2014, at 8:47 AM, Ray Camden rayca...@adobe.com wrote: 1. Please don't mention WebSQL. RKC: Heh, well, it *works*, but yeah, ok, removed to make it more generic. Why? None of my apps work without it. We aren't removing WebSQL, we are just removing it mention from the introductory guidance doc. I only care about ios and android and websql is there. The day they remove it I will replace it with a pair of phonegap plugins and sqlite. I think other platforms should have this capability too FWIW. To me - phonegap is the ultimate screw you to the squabbling web browser companies. We will route around you if you get in our way. Wow. I think WebSQL should be a standard phonegap plugin (and it was in the early days wasn't it?).
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
On May 1, 2014, at 10:31 AM, Brian LeRoux b...@brian.io wrote: WebSQL is deprecated by browsers. We're here to support the web not route around it. No you're not. You're here to bypass browser limitations to provide access to features the web doesn't think you need. SQLite in the browser is very useful. In my case, essential.
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Interesting that you are here to tell us what we are all about. We know what we are about, we've been doing it every day for years. What you are talking about is currently the means, not the goal. On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 10:39 AM, Freak Show freaksho...@me.com wrote: On May 1, 2014, at 10:31 AM, Brian LeRoux b...@brian.io wrote: WebSQL is deprecated by browsers. We're here to support the web not route around it. No you're not. You're here to bypass browser limitations to provide access to features the web doesn't think you need. SQLite in the browser is very useful. In my case, essential.
RE: First stab at Next Steps article
Btw, here is a WebSQL plugin that also enables WebSQL support on Windows platforms - http://plugins.cordova.io/#/package/com.msopentech.websql, if you really have to WebSQL. Here is the IndexedDB plugin work in progress that would enable IndexedDB on unsupported browsers - https://github.com/sgrebnov/cordova-plugin-indexedDB, will be published soon. Btw, some comments on the web that talk about Safari and IndexedDB - https://twitter.com/daleharvey/status/456759068053356544 P.S: The availability of these plugins does not mean I support one standard or the other. Just mentioning them so that functionality written today does not break. :) -Original Message- From: Freak Show [mailto:freaksho...@me.com] Sent: Thursday, May 1, 2014 10:39 AM To: dev@cordova.apache.org Subject: Re: First stab at Next Steps article On May 1, 2014, at 10:31 AM, Brian LeRoux b...@brian.io wrote: WebSQL is deprecated by browsers. We're here to support the web not route around it. No you're not. You're here to bypass browser limitations to provide access to features the web doesn't think you need. SQLite in the browser is very useful. In my case, essential.
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
You write software that bypasses web browser security models and punches holes in the sandbox. How does that support the web? That's a good useful thing considering how badly the web standards people have mismanaged browser development over the last ten years. On May 1, 2014, at 10:42 AM, Shazron shaz...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting that you are here to tell us what we are all about. We know what we are about, we've been doing it every day for years. What you are talking about is currently the means, not the goal. On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 10:39 AM, Freak Show freaksho...@me.com wrote: On May 1, 2014, at 10:31 AM, Brian LeRoux b...@brian.io wrote: WebSQL is deprecated by browsers. We're here to support the web not route around it. No you're not. You're here to bypass browser limitations to provide access to features the web doesn't think you need. SQLite in the browser is very useful. In my case, essential.
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Hey Freak, which plugins did you publish? On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 1:47 PM, Freak Show freaksho...@me.com wrote: You write software that bypasses web browser security models and punches holes in the sandbox. How does that support the web? That's a good useful thing considering how badly the web standards people have mismanaged browser development over the last ten years. On May 1, 2014, at 10:42 AM, Shazron shaz...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting that you are here to tell us what we are all about. We know what we are about, we've been doing it every day for years. What you are talking about is currently the means, not the goal. On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 10:39 AM, Freak Show freaksho...@me.com wrote: On May 1, 2014, at 10:31 AM, Brian LeRoux b...@brian.io wrote: WebSQL is deprecated by browsers. We're here to support the web not route around it. No you're not. You're here to bypass browser limitations to provide access to features the web doesn't think you need. SQLite in the browser is very useful. In my case, essential.
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
On May 1, 2014, at 10:45 AM, Parashuram Narasimhan (MS OPEN TECH) panar...@microsoft.com wrote: Btw, here is a WebSQL plugin that also enables WebSQL support on Windows platforms - http://plugins.cordova.io/#/package/com.msopentech.websql, if you really have to WebSQL. Here is the IndexedDB plugin work in progress that would enable IndexedDB on unsupported browsers - https://github.com/sgrebnov/cordova-plugin-indexedDB, will be published soon. Btw, some comments on the web that talk about Safari and IndexedDB - https://twitter.com/daleharvey/status/456759068053356544 P.S: The availability of these plugins does not mean I support one standard or the other. Just mentioning them so that functionality written today does not break. :) Cool links. One more for you - if you really want to know how people feel about not getting WebSQL in Firefox and having the infinitely less capable indexeddb lameness foisted on them, here's a lovely little thread worth a read: https://plus.google.com/+KevinDangoor/posts/PHqKjkcNbLU?cfem=1 Summary - the developers are not happy with indexedb at all and think the browser makers are being jerks. And indexdb has only been 'coming any day now' forwhat five years?
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
unsubscribe @purplecabbage risingj.com On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 10:53 AM, Freak Show freaksho...@me.com wrote: On May 1, 2014, at 10:45 AM, Parashuram Narasimhan (MS OPEN TECH) panar...@microsoft.com wrote: Btw, here is a WebSQL plugin that also enables WebSQL support on Windows platforms - http://plugins.cordova.io/#/package/com.msopentech.websql, if you really have to WebSQL. Here is the IndexedDB plugin work in progress that would enable IndexedDB on unsupported browsers - https://github.com/sgrebnov/cordova-plugin-indexedDB, will be published soon. Btw, some comments on the web that talk about Safari and IndexedDB - https://twitter.com/daleharvey/status/456759068053356544 P.S: The availability of these plugins does not mean I support one standard or the other. Just mentioning them so that functionality written today does not break. :) Cool links. One more for you - if you really want to know how people feel about not getting WebSQL in Firefox and having the infinitely less capable indexeddb lameness foisted on them, here's a lovely little thread worth a read: https://plus.google.com/+KevinDangoor/posts/PHqKjkcNbLU?cfem=1 Summary - the developers are not happy with indexedb at all and think the browser makers are being jerks. And indexdb has only been 'coming any day now' forwhat five years?
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Publish, or write? On May 1, 2014, at 10:52 AM, Michal Mocny mmo...@chromium.org wrote: Hey Freak, which plugins did you publish?
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
I get the sense I'm walking into a trap but I feel like its important to keep the story straight here. Cordova facilitates building apps with web technologies. Our original motivation was to give web technology a better than fighting chance to overcome fragmented proprietary treadmills. Apps have an advantageous position because they get installed by a deliberate user action they enjoy a different security model than the open web. The web sandbox is a feature: it is not a bug but device apis and to a lesser extent app store distribution are compelling advantages. The original intent of the thing now called Cordova was to level the playing field, offer a future forward polyfill for emergent standards, and to vet those standards in a faster-than-normal implementation. Ideally apps authored in Cordova run in a browser. (A browser of today or the future.) These goals for most of the committership have not changed. We're here to help prove out web standards, paint over proprietary runtimes, to help facilitate web technology to continue its advancement. Web standards don't actually have much to do with browser development. Implementations by vendors participate in the standards process but all these lines are rather blurry and sort of outside the point. The point is the web is crucial societal infrastructure. We need to keep the web open, free, and accessible to all. On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Freak Show freaksho...@me.com wrote: You write software that bypasses web browser security models and punches holes in the sandbox. How does that support the web? That's a good useful thing considering how badly the web standards people have mismanaged browser development over the last ten years. On May 1, 2014, at 10:42 AM, Shazron shaz...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting that you are here to tell us what we are all about. We know what we are about, we've been doing it every day for years. What you are talking about is currently the means, not the goal. On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 10:39 AM, Freak Show freaksho...@me.com wrote: On May 1, 2014, at 10:31 AM, Brian LeRoux b...@brian.io wrote: WebSQL is deprecated by browsers. We're here to support the web not route around it. No you're not. You're here to bypass browser limitations to provide access to features the web doesn't think you need. SQLite in the browser is very useful. In my case, essential.
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
From a relative newcomer's point of view, should some distinction be made between plugins officially maintained by Apache Cordova and those that are not? -Terence On 4/30/2014 4:40 PM, Andrew Grieve wrote: On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 5:28 PM, Josh Soref jso...@blackberry.com wrote: Ray Camden wrote: I had 3 hours here at the airport so I took at stab at writing content for the Next Steps document. You can find (and edit) the document here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uJ5qXqQxK2oh1eZPgMdYuhK2rQTB7QMHXUHbkc omWgk/edit# Personally, I favor ether pads / pirate pads. The main thing missing now (imo) is the Upgrade section. I think with that added - this is in a good place (at least initially). Thoughts, opinions, etc? I like it. Any volunteers ready to write out the upgrade section? I don't want to set up a Google account at work, but FYI - you don't need an account to edit a doc that's made editable via those with the link (as this one is). 1. Please don't mention WebSQL. 2. The offline/online event is not a great indicator, it's a hint, but it can be misleading. People need to try a connection (XHR) to their destination, if it works, great, if it doesn't that's it. If I'm in a captive portal, or if I'm in an office, I can easily not have access to your backend, even though I do have some form of network access. 3. For Debugging, on BlackBerry 10, you get web inspector out of the box. https://developer.blackberry.com/html5/documentation/v2_0/enabling_web_insp ector.html https://developer.blackberry.com/html5/documentation/v2_0/debugging_using_w eb_inspector.html 4. I think we decided to favor stack overflow over google groups 5. s/you simulator the accelerometer to test shake events/you simulate the accelerometer to test shake events/ — this last one means you should introduce the document to WinWord and ask it for an opinion :).
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
we use namespaces for that. anything under org.apache.cordova is maintained by apache cordova On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 1:15 PM, Terence M. Bandoian tere...@tmbsw.comwrote: From a relative newcomer's point of view, should some distinction be made between plugins officially maintained by Apache Cordova and those that are not? -Terence On 4/30/2014 4:40 PM, Andrew Grieve wrote: On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 5:28 PM, Josh Soref jso...@blackberry.com wrote: Ray Camden wrote: I had 3 hours here at the airport so I took at stab at writing content for the Next Steps document. You can find (and edit) the document here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uJ5qXqQxK2oh1eZPgMdYuhK2rQTB7 QMHXUHbkc omWgk/edit# Personally, I favor ether pads / pirate pads. The main thing missing now (imo) is the Upgrade section. I think with that added - this is in a good place (at least initially). Thoughts, opinions, etc? I like it. Any volunteers ready to write out the upgrade section? I don't want to set up a Google account at work, but FYI - you don't need an account to edit a doc that's made editable via those with the link (as this one is). 1. Please don't mention WebSQL. 2. The offline/online event is not a great indicator, it's a hint, but it can be misleading. People need to try a connection (XHR) to their destination, if it works, great, if it doesn't that's it. If I'm in a captive portal, or if I'm in an office, I can easily not have access to your backend, even though I do have some form of network access. 3. For Debugging, on BlackBerry 10, you get web inspector out of the box. https://developer.blackberry.com/html5/documentation/v2_0/ enabling_web_insp ector.html https://developer.blackberry.com/html5/documentation/v2_0/ debugging_using_w eb_inspector.html 4. I think we decided to favor stack overflow over google groups 5. s/you simulator the accelerometer to test shake events/you simulate the accelerometer to test shake events/ — this last one means you should introduce the document to WinWord and ask it for an opinion :).
RE: First stab at Next Steps article
Well said. -Original Message- From: brian.ler...@gmail.com [mailto:brian.ler...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Brian LeRoux Sent: Thursday, May 01, 2014 4:04 PM To: dev@cordova.apache.org Subject: Re: First stab at Next Steps article I get the sense I'm walking into a trap but I feel like its important to keep the story straight here. Cordova facilitates building apps with web technologies. Our original motivation was to give web technology a better than fighting chance to overcome fragmented proprietary treadmills. Apps have an advantageous position because they get installed by a deliberate user action they enjoy a different security model than the open web. The web sandbox is a feature: it is not a bug but device apis and to a lesser extent app store distribution are compelling advantages. The original intent of the thing now called Cordova was to level the playing field, offer a future forward polyfill for emergent standards, and to vet those standards in a faster-than-normal implementation. Ideally apps authored in Cordova run in a browser. (A browser of today or the future.) These goals for most of the committership have not changed. We're here to help prove out web standards, paint over proprietary runtimes, to help facilitate web technology to continue its advancement. Web standards don't actually have much to do with browser development. Implementations by vendors participate in the standards process but all these lines are rather blurry and sort of outside the point. The point is the web is crucial societal infrastructure. We need to keep the web open, free, and accessible to all. On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 10:47 AM, Freak Show freaksho...@me.com wrote: You write software that bypasses web browser security models and punches holes in the sandbox. How does that support the web? That's a good useful thing considering how badly the web standards people have mismanaged browser development over the last ten years. On May 1, 2014, at 10:42 AM, Shazron shaz...@gmail.com wrote: Interesting that you are here to tell us what we are all about. We know what we are about, we've been doing it every day for years. What you are talking about is currently the means, not the goal. On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 10:39 AM, Freak Show freaksho...@me.com wrote: On May 1, 2014, at 10:31 AM, Brian LeRoux b...@brian.io wrote: WebSQL is deprecated by browsers. We're here to support the web not route around it. No you're not. You're here to bypass browser limitations to provide access to features the web doesn't think you need. SQLite in the browser is very useful. In my case, essential. ** The information in this email is confidential and may be legally privileged. It is intended solely for the addressee. Access to this email by anyone else is unauthorized. If you are not the intended recipient, any disclosure, copying, distribution or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on it, is prohibited and may be unlawful. When addressed to our clients any opinions or advice contained in this email are subject to the terms and conditions expressed in the governing KPMG client engagement letter. ***
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
+1. Once you get Hello World up and running, this should be these signposts on possibilities where to go next. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/Bluff_signpost.jpg This has natural potential for scope creep. On May 1, 2014, at 6:08 PM, Ray Camden rayca...@adobe.com wrote: Terence, this too, smells like a good FAQ detail. To me, this document is more of a guide for things that a Cordova dev would need to know after getting past the basic Hello World. (Not saying my view on this is right, just how I see it.)
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Awesome work thus far, and a good idea to have, imo. Getting to hello, world is great, but having a jumping-off point for how to proceed after that fact would be very beneficial. I added a few comments to the document, and also contributed some sections on upgrading projects/plugins and testing. If anything there is too much detail, wrong, or not desired in this document, feel free to remove as needed. :-) If an ICLA is needed for what I added, one is on its way. I've been meaning to send one anyway, but time keeps getting away from me! ___ Kerri Shotts photoKandy Studios, LLC On the Web: http://www.photokandy.com/ Social Media: Twitter: @photokandy, http://twitter.com/photokandy Tumblr: http://photokandy.tumblr.com/ Github: https://github.com/kerrishotts https://github.com/organizations/photokandyStudios CoderWall: https://coderwall.com/kerrishotts Apps on the Apple Store: https://itunes.apple.com/us/artist/photokandy-studios-llc/id498577828 Books: http://www.packtpub.com/phonegap-2-mobile-application-hotshot/book http://www.packtpub.com/phonegap-social-app-development/book On Thu, May 1, 2014 at 9:13 PM, Marcel Kinard cmarc...@gmail.com wrote: +1. Once you get Hello World up and running, this should be these signposts on possibilities where to go next. http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/28/Bluff_signpost.jpg This has natural potential for scope creep. On May 1, 2014, at 6:08 PM, Ray Camden rayca...@adobe.com wrote: Terence, this too, smells like a good FAQ detail. To me, this document is more of a guide for things that a Cordova dev would need to know after getting past the basic Hello World. (Not saying my view on this is right, just how I see it.)
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Ray, This looks great. Interesting choice to both link Brock’s “you half-assed it” article *and* list jQM first in the list of UI libs... :) On 1 May 2014 at 6:50:53 am, Ray Camden (rayca...@adobe.com) wrote: I had 3 hours here at the airport so I took at stab at writing content for the Next Steps document. You can find (and edit) the document here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uJ5qXqQxK2oh1eZPgMdYuhK2rQTB7QMHXUHbkcomWgk/edit# The main thing missing now (imo) is the Upgrade section. I think with that added - this is in a good place (at least initially). Thoughts, opinions, etc? Any volunteers ready to write out the upgrade section?
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
Ray Camden wrote: I had 3 hours here at the airport so I took at stab at writing content for the Next Steps document. You can find (and edit) the document here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uJ5qXqQxK2oh1eZPgMdYuhK2rQTB7QMHXUHbkc omWgk/edit# Personally, I favor ether pads / pirate pads. The main thing missing now (imo) is the Upgrade section. I think with that added - this is in a good place (at least initially). Thoughts, opinions, etc? I like it. Any volunteers ready to write out the upgrade section? I don't want to set up a Google account at work, but 1. Please don't mention WebSQL. 2. The offline/online event is not a great indicator, it's a hint, but it can be misleading. People need to try a connection (XHR) to their destination, if it works, great, if it doesn't that's it. If I'm in a captive portal, or if I'm in an office, I can easily not have access to your backend, even though I do have some form of network access. 3. For Debugging, on BlackBerry 10, you get web inspector out of the box. https://developer.blackberry.com/html5/documentation/v2_0/enabling_web_insp ector.html https://developer.blackberry.com/html5/documentation/v2_0/debugging_using_w eb_inspector.html 4. I think we decided to favor stack overflow over google groups 5. s/you simulator the accelerometer to test shake events/you simulate the accelerometer to test shake events/ — this last one means you should introduce the document to WinWord and ask it for an opinion :).
Re: First stab at Next Steps article
On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 5:28 PM, Josh Soref jso...@blackberry.com wrote: Ray Camden wrote: I had 3 hours here at the airport so I took at stab at writing content for the Next Steps document. You can find (and edit) the document here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1uJ5qXqQxK2oh1eZPgMdYuhK2rQTB7QMHXUHbkc omWgk/edit# Personally, I favor ether pads / pirate pads. The main thing missing now (imo) is the Upgrade section. I think with that added - this is in a good place (at least initially). Thoughts, opinions, etc? I like it. Any volunteers ready to write out the upgrade section? I don't want to set up a Google account at work, but FYI - you don't need an account to edit a doc that's made editable via those with the link (as this one is). 1. Please don't mention WebSQL. 2. The offline/online event is not a great indicator, it's a hint, but it can be misleading. People need to try a connection (XHR) to their destination, if it works, great, if it doesn't that's it. If I'm in a captive portal, or if I'm in an office, I can easily not have access to your backend, even though I do have some form of network access. 3. For Debugging, on BlackBerry 10, you get web inspector out of the box. https://developer.blackberry.com/html5/documentation/v2_0/enabling_web_insp ector.html https://developer.blackberry.com/html5/documentation/v2_0/debugging_using_w eb_inspector.html 4. I think we decided to favor stack overflow over google groups 5. s/you simulator the accelerometer to test shake events/you simulate the accelerometer to test shake events/ — this last one means you should introduce the document to WinWord and ask it for an opinion :).
