Re: Worthwhile to create a Sling CMS?

[Sandro Boehme]

I recognized I accidently answered privately to Ondrej by hitting 
'reply'. So here is my answer to him from two days ago:


Hi Ondrej,

Am 19.01.16 um 15:49 schrieb Ondrej Florian:

Having yet another CMS for 'normal' people like Wix may not be worthwhile.
I think it is not like Wix as it is Open Source. But of course this is 
more important for developers than for users as long as Wix can provide 
enough reusable elements for the users.



HOWEVER, going into verticals may be much more interesting.

I absolutely agree.


I personally think the Sling could be great data integration platform.
- imagine modeling SAP or SF data as resources...
- being able to 'mix' those resources into a web pages or reports
- build forms / workflows
Yes, that should certainly not be too hard to do. In the Sitebuilder poc 
demo [1] I moved simple text fields to the page, gave them an HTML name 
and the Sling POST servlet created the according node property. This way 
the page editor didn't have to do much.
I also agree that it would integrate well into Java (-affine) 
architectures as it fits skill wise.



...this also takes you very close to document/knowledge management :-)

Yes, this is probably right.

Thanks,

Sandro

[1] - https://vimeo.com/140369433

Re: Worthwhile to create a Sling CMS?

[Sandro Boehme]

Hi Ruben,

Am 19.01.16 um 18:19 schrieb Ruben Reusser:

for what it's worth, it would be really nice to have an inline editing
experience, maybe like

https://slate.adobe.com/welcome/

Yes, I agree.
It should be possible for frontend components that are shown on the live 
page to have dependencies to other packages like inline editors. I did 
some test with the JSPM API [1] and it looks like it is feasible to 
download and install the dependencies and its transitive dependencies on 
the fly.


To use that in the page editor for editing content more changes are 
needed but I think it should not be too hard and I agree that it would 
be a nice thing to have.


Best,

Sandro

[1] - https://github.com/jspm/jspm-cli/blob/master/docs/api.md

Re: Worthwhile to create a Sling CMS?

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi Sandro,

On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Sandro Boehme  wrote:
> ...It would help me a big deal if some of you could tell me if they would use
> this kind of CMS or if the know people who would use it as that validates
> (or invalidates) my effort!..

I don't need to host a CMS myself these days, so wouldn't use that,
but I think a Sling-based CMS would be a great showcase of what Sling
can do.

-Bertrand

Re: Worthwhile to create a Sling CMS?

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

Hi Sandro,

On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 2:46 PM, Sandro Boehme  wrote:
> ...Would you use it and maybe develop
> components for it if it would be available immediately as a service in the
> web (e.g. like Wix)?...

I don't think so, but my personal needs in terms of CMS are extremely
limited these days. When my friends look for websites/CMS I usually
steer them to wordpress.com to be able to get out of the way as soon
as possible. And I use that as well for my own blog, for historical
reasons and with no need for something better at the moment.

So my use cases are atypical, I'm not a good customer for such a
thing. But as I said, very interested in having concrete examples of
how to use Sling.

-Bertrand

Re: Worthwhile to create a Sling CMS?

[Sandro Boehme]

Am 19.01.16 um 14:35 schrieb Bertrand Delacretaz:

Hi Sandro,

On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Sandro Boehme  wrote:

...It would help me a big deal if some of you could tell me if they would use
this kind of CMS or if the know people who would use it as that validates
(or invalidates) my effort!..


I don't need to host a CMS myself these days, so wouldn't use that,
but I think a Sling-based CMS would be a great showcase of what Sling
can do.

-Bertrand



Thanks for your feedback Bertrand! Would you use it and maybe develop 
components for it if it would be available immediately as a service in 
the web (e.g. like Wix)? What CMS would you personally use instead? Or 
what other superior offering is there in your opinion?


Best,

Sandro

Worthwhile to create a Sling CMS?

[Sandro Boehme]

Hello,

I personally think there is a market and demand for a small Sling CMS 
that is a website builder which assembles frontend components from an 
open marketplace.


It would help me a big deal if some of you could tell me if they would 
use this kind of CMS or if the know people who would use it as that 
validates (or invalidates) my effort!


It should be as simple and straightforward as a typical website builder 
for composing a page from the frontend components. At the same time the 
barrier to develop these components should be as low as possible and 
developers should be able to sell components to allow a thriving 
marketplace for users to choose components from.


When researching to see if there is something comparable I didn't found 
anything. The closest were Wix, LightCMS, Hippo (marketplace planned), 
Liferay and Nuxeo. But they all have an enterprise edition which raises 
the barrier for many users and developers to use the CMS and makes the 
distribution of the CMS harder. If you know something else that matches 
my goals better I would really like to know it!


For me it seems obvious to go that route but I'm certainly biased :-). 
This is why your opinion is very important to me!


If you would like to know more about this initiative you will find more 
(technical) information at the introduction page of the survey here: 
https://de.surveymonkey.com/r/WL7S2PJ
Of course if you don't have the time you don't need to fill the 
questionnaire and you can just read the first page.


Any feedback is much appreciated!

Thanks,

Sandro

Re: Worthwhile to create a Sling CMS?

[Ondrej Florian]

Hi Sandro,

Having yet another CMS for 'normal' people like Wix may not be worthwhile.
HOWEVER, going into verticals may be much more interesting.

I personally think the Sling could be great data integration platform.
- imagine modeling SAP or SF data as resources...
- being able to 'mix' those resources into a web pages or reports
- build forms / workflows 

...this also takes you very close to document/knowledge management :-)


Ondrej


On 19/01/2016 14:46, "Sandro Boehme"  wrote:

>Am 19.01.16 um 14:35 schrieb Bertrand Delacretaz:
>> Hi Sandro,
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 2:25 PM, Sandro Boehme  wrote:
>>> ...It would help me a big deal if some of you could tell me if they would 
>>> use
>>> this kind of CMS or if the know people who would use it as that validates
>>> (or invalidates) my effort!..
>>
>> I don't need to host a CMS myself these days, so wouldn't use that,
>> but I think a Sling-based CMS would be a great showcase of what Sling
>> can do.
>>
>> -Bertrand
>>
>
>Thanks for your feedback Bertrand! Would you use it and maybe develop 
>components for it if it would be available immediately as a service in 
>the web (e.g. like Wix)? What CMS would you personally use instead? Or 
>what other superior offering is there in your opinion?
>
>Best,
>
>Sandro

Re: Worthwhile to create a Sling CMS?

[Peter Hunsberger]

We use a sorta open source CMS called dotCMS.  Rather obscure, but meets
many of our needs, among which is scaling to support 400 authors and
somewhere over 900 web sites.  As we scale to more users we'd like to start
to decompose that into distributed components:

- authoring
- indexing (Elastic Seach in our case)
- publishing
- caching (Redis in our case)
- content distribution
- workflow management
- authorization, authentication

Basically, having each function run in Docker containers that can be
instantiated as needed.  Our needs are likely way different than what
you're aiming at, but to the extent you can meet them you may end up with a
pretty flexible solution?

On Tuesday, January 19, 2016, Sandro Boehme  wrote:

> Hello,
>
> I personally think there is a market and demand for a small Sling CMS that
> is a website builder which assembles frontend components from an open
> marketplace.
>
> It would help me a big deal if some of you could tell me if they would use
> this kind of CMS or if the know people who would use it as that validates
> (or invalidates) my effort!
>
> It should be as simple and straightforward as a typical website builder
> for composing a page from the frontend components. At the same time the
> barrier to develop these components should be as low as possible and
> developers should be able to sell components to allow a thriving
> marketplace for users to choose components from.
>
> When researching to see if there is something comparable I didn't found
> anything. The closest were Wix, LightCMS, Hippo (marketplace planned),
> Liferay and Nuxeo. But they all have an enterprise edition which raises the
> barrier for many users and developers to use the CMS and makes the
> distribution of the CMS harder. If you know something else that matches my
> goals better I would really like to know it!
>
> For me it seems obvious to go that route but I'm certainly biased :-).
> This is why your opinion is very important to me!
>
> If you would like to know more about this initiative you will find more
> (technical) information at the introduction page of the survey here:
> https://de.surveymonkey.com/r/WL7S2PJ
> Of course if you don't have the time you don't need to fill the
> questionnaire and you can just read the first page.
>
> Any feedback is much appreciated!
>
> Thanks,
>
> Sandro
>


-- 
Peter Hunsberger

Re: Worthwhile to create a Sling CMS?

[Sandro Boehme]

Hi Bertrand,

Am 19.01.16 um 15:16 schrieb Bertrand Delacretaz:

... but my personal needs in terms of CMS are extremely
limited these days. When my friends look for websites/CMS I usually
steer them to wordpress.com to be able to get out of the way as soon

:-D yeah I understand.


as possible. And I use that as well for my own blog, for historical
reasons and with no need for something better at the moment.
I agree and used Wordpress for the web shop of my wife (wingsuit.de) as 
well.
And then there are were cases where I would like to have small changes 
or update things. But with Wordpress being developed in PHP it doesn't 
really motivate me to do that let alone having fun doing it. Also for 
experimental blogs or business ideas I would love to have a very helpful 
CMS written in Java so I can have a more individual result.




So my use cases are atypical, I'm not a good customer for such a
thing. But as I said, very interested in having concrete examples of
how to use Sling.
Yeah, if it turns out, that the Sitebuilder has not enough value for 
users or developers to use, I'm happy to provide it as a showcase.


Thanks a lot for your feedback!

Sandro



-Bertrand

Re: Worthwhile to create a Sling CMS?

[Bertrand Delacretaz]

On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Peter Hunsberger
 wrote:
> ...Basically, having each function run in Docker containers that can be
> instantiated as needed.  Our needs are likely way different than what
> you're aiming at, but to the extent you can meet them you may end up with a
> pretty flexible solution?...

One of my way-too-far-on-this-todo-list-ideas is to try and run
multiple specialized Sling instances along the lines that you mention,
collaborating via a (JMS or other) message bus. With the provisioning
model and a crankstart-style launcher it's easy to create specialized
Sling instances, and async servlets should allow for sharing the load
via a message bus. Ok, there's a bit of "in theory" in all that ;-)

I won't have much time to work on this in the near future but if you
guys are game for that I'd be happy to collaborate on the design and
testing of such a thing.

-Bertrand

Re: Worthwhile to create a Sling CMS?

[Sandro Boehme]

Am 19.01.16 um 16:20 schrieb Peter Hunsberger:

We use a sorta open source CMS called dotCMS.  Rather obscure, but meets
many of our needs, among which is scaling to support 400 authors and
somewhere over 900 web sites.  As we scale to more users we'd like to start
to decompose that into distributed components:

- authoring
- indexing (Elastic Seach in our case)
- publishing
- caching (Redis in our case)
- content distribution
- workflow management
- authorization, authentication

Basically, having each function run in Docker containers that can be
instantiated as needed.  Our needs are likely way different than what
you're aiming at, but to the extent you can meet them you may end up with a
pretty flexible solution?
Yes, I'm not aiming at distributed components and more for small to 
medium websites. There is no separated authoring and publishing instance 
for example. But I can imagine that this can be done using Slings 
discovery API later on.


Best,

Sandro

Re: Worthwhile to create a Sling CMS?

[Peter Hunsberger]

That sounds like the way we'd want to head.  We're not likely to try and
help build this on Sling unless our current CMS proves unable to do it.
That could take many months to determine but is one of the things we're
looking at this year.

On Tuesday, January 19, 2016, Bertrand Delacretaz 
wrote:

> On Tue, Jan 19, 2016 at 4:20 PM, Peter Hunsberger
> > wrote:
> > ...Basically, having each function run in Docker containers that can be
> > instantiated as needed.  Our needs are likely way different than what
> > you're aiming at, but to the extent you can meet them you may end up
> with a
> > pretty flexible solution?...
>
> One of my way-too-far-on-this-todo-list-ideas is to try and run
> multiple specialized Sling instances along the lines that you mention,
> collaborating via a (JMS or other) message bus. With the provisioning
> model and a crankstart-style launcher it's easy to create specialized
> Sling instances, and async servlets should allow for sharing the load
> via a message bus. Ok, there's a bit of "in theory" in all that ;-)
>
> I won't have much time to work on this in the near future but if you
> guys are game for that I'd be happy to collaborate on the design and
> testing of such a thing.
>
> -Bertrand
>


-- 
Peter Hunsberger

Re: Worthwhile to create a Sling CMS?

[Ruben Reusser]

for what it's worth, it would be really nice to have an inline editing 
experience, maybe like


https://slate.adobe.com/welcome/

Ruben

On 1/19/2016 5:25 AM, Sandro Boehme wrote:

Hello,

I personally think there is a market and demand for a small Sling CMS 
that is a website builder which assembles frontend components from an 
open marketplace.


It would help me a big deal if some of you could tell me if they would 
use this kind of CMS or if the know people who would use it as that 
validates (or invalidates) my effort!


It should be as simple and straightforward as a typical website 
builder for composing a page from the frontend components. At the same 
time the barrier to develop these components should be as low as 
possible and developers should be able to sell components to allow a 
thriving marketplace for users to choose components from.


When researching to see if there is something comparable I didn't 
found anything. The closest were Wix, LightCMS, Hippo (marketplace 
planned), Liferay and Nuxeo. But they all have an enterprise edition 
which raises the barrier for many users and developers to use the CMS 
and makes the distribution of the CMS harder. If you know something 
else that matches my goals better I would really like to know it!


For me it seems obvious to go that route but I'm certainly biased :-). 
This is why your opinion is very important to me!


If you would like to know more about this initiative you will find 
more (technical) information at the introduction page of the survey 
here: https://de.surveymonkey.com/r/WL7S2PJ
Of course if you don't have the time you don't need to fill the 
questionnaire and you can just read the first page.


Any feedback is much appreciated!

Thanks,

Sandro