[freenet-dev] Asynchronous image loading
On 17/6/2009 22:36, sashee wrote: > this way freenet don't start all the > fetching, just what is requested... When the page loads, freenet > start fetching all the images, Did you look at your /config/fproxy page ? There is an option called "Enable prefetching of inline images" .. > What you think? :)
[freenet-dev] need graphic design help
As I see in the statistics (http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp) IE6 has 14.5% share and radically decreasing. In my opinion, I think it should be left dead as it should have been a long time ago. I don't think if somebody uses that good-for-nothing browser, he will be too irritated seeing something is broken in it. sashee On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 9:43 PM, Caco Patane wrote: >> I think he means that users in "poor" areas usually run pirated versions >> of XP with the included IE6. Many of these installations won't have a >> functional Windows Update because of the "Genuine Advantage" stuff >> Microsoft pushes through it. Wich means that they won't get IE updates >> automatically, and probably won't/can't upgrade manually. > > That's it! But not only poor areas, only companies and laptop users > run genuine software. Brand computers (Dell, IBM, etc) are only > purchased by multinational corporations. I used an original copy of > windows for a work in a big corp, not even un goverment offices (kinda > fun). I think that the same scenarios goes for all latin america... > Venezuela, Bolivia and Cuba are in "delicate" positions regarding > freedom of speech. Chavez already closed a TV channel =D > > For the PNG thing, we can use the PNG with transparent background and > in the tag include: > > > > No new image is needed, those javascripts "fix" it. > ___ > Devl mailing list > Devl at freenetproject.org > http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl >
[freenet-dev] Recent work on web-pushing branch
> This is going to be very inefficient for a public gateway... otoh maybe > that's not an important use case. In fact, it's a privacy issue for a node > serving several users over a LAN (or even more so for a public gateway). Can > you reasonably easily make it track who is subscribed to which leader? It should be doable, will think about it. sashee
[freenet-dev] need graphic design help
Matthew Toseland skrev: > On Wednesday 17 June 2009 16:26:35 Caco Patane wrote: >>> Hmmm... do we care? How many people use IE6 at the moment? And what exactly >>> happens on IE6 with 1-bit-transparent PNGs? >> At least here (latin america) there are tons of IE6 users: because >> hardware is expensive nobody installs vista, nobody buys original >> windows copies and don't get the updates. In webdevelopment usually is >> a requirement to support IE6 -again, in Latinamerica-. > > Hmmm, I thought IE7 was available for XP? Both IE 7 and IE 8 are available for XP. I think he means that users in "poor" areas usually run pirated versions of XP with the included IE6. Many of these installations won't have a functional Windows Update because of the "Genuine Advantage" stuff Microsoft pushes through it. Wich means that they won't get IE updates automatically, and probably won't/can't upgrade manually. - Zero3
[freenet-dev] Asynchronous image loading
Ok, I'll schedule that then. > One thing that *is* critical is that we stop loading the images if the user > closes the page, but afaics the existing infrastructure will do that. I really dont think that anything gets notified when the user closes the tab. So I dont think fetching is stopped then. As I see the prefetching has a 1 minute timeout, so it isn't really solving things. Inline prefetch fetches stuff, but only those, that are fast, and kills the others. And the browser's request fetches the other(almost all) images, 2(3) at a time. Asyncronous fetching would solve that problem, because it can notify(and cancel) the fetches when the user actually closes the tab. sashee On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Matthew Toseland wrote: > On Wednesday 17 June 2009 19:23:22 sashee wrote: >> So my question is: Is it needed? If it helps, I'll do it before the >> midterm evals, but if it doesnt improve anything, then no need to >> program it. > > Yes. IMHO it is important. Prefetching has never worked well on new nodes, > and doesn't solve the connection limit problem anyway. Also the > infrastructure will be interesting as later on we may want notifications on > loaded pages (e.g. "there is a more recent version of this page available", > but maybe also critical node events). > > Feel free to make a very basic implementation where you either have the > loaded image or you have a loading graphic with no indication of how far it > has got. *Ideally* we'd have the loading images be dependant on how far the > request has got, but this isn't essential, certainly not for a first > approximation ... another interesting option would be to show a progress bar > showing the overall progress, ETA, etc. One thing that *is* critical is that > we stop loading the images if the user closes the page, but afaics the > existing infrastructure will do that. >> >> On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 5:44 PM, sashee wrote: >> > Ok, thats true. But the browser won't show an image till all the image >> > above are shown, because it uses 2-3 connections to fetch the images >> > sequentially. It may happen that a few image that fetches very slowly >> > will hang all the others, even if they are completely present. >> > >> > sashee >> > >> > On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 4:46 PM, Daniel Cheng> > gmail.com> wrote: >> >> On 17/6/2009 22:36, sashee wrote: >> >>> this way freenet don't start all the >> >>> fetching, just what is requested... When the page loads, freenet >> >> ?> start fetching all the images, >> >> >> >> Did you look at your /config/fproxy page ? >> >> There is an option called "Enable prefetching of inline images" .. >> >> >> >>> What you think? >> >> >> >> :) > > ___ > Devl mailing list > Devl at freenetproject.org > http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl >
[freenet-dev] About the website
Can you make a link to another languages? (Like french wiki.) See https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=2915 On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Matthew Toseland wrote: > On Wednesday 17 June 2009 07:40:18 Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > > Am Mittwoch, 17. Juni 2009 05:26:25 schrieb Luke771: > > > Browse and publish 'freesites' (Freenet-hosted websites) > > > > This one sounds very nice to me. It gets people into the freenet-speech > and at > > the same time tells them why we use it (what's the difference between a > > freesite and a normal website). > > Currently it is: > > Freenet is free software which lets you anonymously share files, browse and > publish "freesites" (web sites accessible only through Freenet) and chat on > forums, without fear of censorship. Users are anonymous, and Freenet is > entirely decentralised. Without anonymity there can never be true freedom of > speech, and without decentralisation the network would be vulnerable to > attack. > > ___ > Devl mailing list > Devl at freenetproject.org > http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl > -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: <https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/attachments/20090617/ad612d79/attachment.html>
[freenet-dev] Asynchronous image loading
So my question is: Is it needed? If it helps, I'll do it before the midterm evals, but if it doesnt improve anything, then no need to program it. On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 5:44 PM, sashee wrote: > Ok, thats true. But the browser won't show an image till all the image > above are shown, because it uses 2-3 connections to fetch the images > sequentially. It may happen that a few image that fetches very slowly > will hang all the others, even if they are completely present. > > sashee > > On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 4:46 PM, Daniel Cheng > wrote: >> On 17/6/2009 22:36, sashee wrote: >>> this way freenet don't start all the >>> fetching, just what is requested... When the page loads, freenet >> ?> start fetching all the images, >> >> Did you look at your /config/fproxy page ? >> There is an option called "Enable prefetching of inline images" .. >> >>> What you think? >> >> :) >> ___ >> Devl mailing list >> Devl at freenetproject.org >> http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl >> >
[freenet-dev] First status report of my GSoC project
Very nice! sashee wrote: > When I said pushng, I meant pushing, really. It is achieved via long > polling, means that the browser makes a connection, and the server > wait till data changes. If it does, then it replies, and the browser > opens another connection. So a data change triggers it, and not just > frequent polling. > -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3537 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: <https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/attachments/20090617/58832b98/attachment.bin>
[freenet-dev] Recent work on web-pushing branch
Thats a good summary, couldnt write it better myself. As for the questions: > Synchronization issues in PushDataManager: In the early commits this was > inconsistent, are you happy with it now? No, I'm not happy with it yet. It has a fatal bug in there, and I'll need to debug it. Sometimes a closed tab has make it to the awaitingNotifications, and it leaks memory. > Hidden input for the request ID (in PageMaker): is this valid HTML? IIRC it's > not inside a form? Firefox says it's valid, so I think it is > Is separating data from notifications more efficient, even though it involves > more round-trips? It is needed, because data can be any size, but cookies has a max. It does involves more round trip, but it's just going to localhost, and thats fast. > Re "+" in base64, you could just use a different encoding - the freenet > nonstandard base64 for example. You can easily change the base64 code used in > the java code to deal with this? OTOH you could avoid it completely with some > changes to the wire format... The "+" is the only problematic character, that is in the BASE64 coding and HTML escaping too. As for now, it hasn't gave me too much headache, but if it will in the future, I'll consider changing. > In the cleaner thread: > + ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? for (Entry entry : new > HashMap(isKeepaliveReceived).entrySet()) { > ... > + ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? > isKeepaliveReceived.put(entry.getKey(), false); > > Is this safe? You don't get ConcurrentModificationException's? It isn't modified concurrently, because a new HashMap is created from the isKeepaliveReceived map, and it's entrySet is being iterated. > > Please use Ticker rather than java timers, because of thread pooling and > thread priority issues. K, will rewrite it > Would it make sense to randomise the failover interval slightly, so that one > fails over and then the other two don't need to? The failover is randomised, because it is based on the loading of the page. It is different for every tab. > You are assuming we will almost never reach MAX_MESSAGES, and in that case > the output will just be a little out of date, this is probably reasonable. MAX_MESSAGES is the maximum difference between the leader's message count and the followers'. It shouldn't be reached, because it would need that the leader has receive events in a 100/10=10ms interval, and thats not possible, an xmlhttpconnection needs more time. If magically the MAX_MESSAGES is hit, then some notifications will be lost. > PushDataManager.awaitingNotifications only contains the "leaders", correct? > But all events are broadcast to all leaders? (Javadocs for the variables > would be nice) All events are broadcast to all leaders, yes. There is one leader for every browser, and because we dont know which request belongs to which browser, we need to broadcast. And because only leaders asks for notifications, we need only to dispatch them to leaders. Thats what the serverside failover does. It copies all the notifications from the old leader's list to the new one. I've only did the coding part yet. When it seems finalized, I'll write comments, javadocs and some documents about how it works and how ppl can code against it. For the build process to be integrated, I'll need the 2 jars to be publicly available somewhere. If it is, then everybody could build even after a distclean. sashee
[freenet-dev] need graphic design help
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 16:26:35 Caco Patane wrote: > > Hmmm... do we care? How many people use IE6 at the moment? And what exactly > > happens on IE6 with 1-bit-transparent PNGs? > > At least here (latin america) there are tons of IE6 users: because > hardware is expensive nobody installs vista, nobody buys original > windows copies and don't get the updates. In webdevelopment usually is > a requirement to support IE6 -again, in Latinamerica-. Hmmm, I thought IE7 was available for XP? > > IE6 shows the transparent pixels as grey. There are some nasty hacks > that can be done with JS and can be included using HTML conditional > comments[1]. > > Saludos, > Caco_Patane > > [1] http://www.quirksmode.org/css/condcom.html Can you make a version with a background and some javascript to include it on IE6? -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 835 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: <https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/attachments/20090617/6e885b0a/attachment.pgp>
[freenet-dev] Asynchronous image loading
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 19:23:22 sashee wrote: > So my question is: Is it needed? If it helps, I'll do it before the > midterm evals, but if it doesnt improve anything, then no need to > program it. Yes. IMHO it is important. Prefetching has never worked well on new nodes, and doesn't solve the connection limit problem anyway. Also the infrastructure will be interesting as later on we may want notifications on loaded pages (e.g. "there is a more recent version of this page available", but maybe also critical node events). Feel free to make a very basic implementation where you either have the loaded image or you have a loading graphic with no indication of how far it has got. *Ideally* we'd have the loading images be dependant on how far the request has got, but this isn't essential, certainly not for a first approximation ... another interesting option would be to show a progress bar showing the overall progress, ETA, etc. One thing that *is* critical is that we stop loading the images if the user closes the page, but afaics the existing infrastructure will do that. > > On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 5:44 PM, sashee wrote: > > Ok, thats true. But the browser won't show an image till all the image > > above are shown, because it uses 2-3 connections to fetch the images > > sequentially. It may happen that a few image that fetches very slowly > > will hang all the others, even if they are completely present. > > > > sashee > > > > On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 4:46 PM, Daniel Cheng > > wrote: > >> On 17/6/2009 22:36, sashee wrote: > >>> this way freenet don't start all the > >>> fetching, just what is requested... When the page loads, freenet > >> ?> start fetching all the images, > >> > >> Did you look at your /config/fproxy page ? > >> There is an option called "Enable prefetching of inline images" .. > >> > >>> What you think? > >> > >> :) -- next part ------ A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 835 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: <https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/attachments/20090617/9699a7fe/attachment.pgp>
[freenet-dev] Recent work on web-pushing branch
In testing, it appears to stick on some pages/files (but maybe that's just freenet), and obviously it only updates the progress bar and not the rest of the information about a download. I'm guessing maybe failed blocks aren't being reported? I haven't seen any indication of any failed blocks in all my testing, which seems rather unlikely... As far as I can see, this is the approximate changelog (detailed comments below): Purpose: To use javascript and a single push connection per browser to update various pages in real time. Currently, just the progress page. In future, the connections and queue pages will also be refreshed dynamically, and this work will also form the basis of a solution for the slow inline image loading problem. Generated code: - Everything inside staticfiles/freenetjs/ is generated. The contents of this dir are deleted when running ant distclean. Generating it requires the GWT jars, which compile java to javascript. - The source code for this is currently in generator/js/. - The GWT jars must be in generator/js/lib/. Connection sharing: - One window makes a connection. - Every 100ms, followers process messages from the leader. - Keepalive every 1sec, failover after 3sec. - Failover assigns a new leader, arbitrated by /failover/ on the node (only allows failover from a request ID that was on the awaiting notifications list). HTMLNode generation: - Script formatting. - generateChildren() to render a node's children to a string buffer. - BaseUpdateableElement: base class of any updatable HTMLNode. Has the original ToadletContext, and an updateState() function to regenerate it. - ProgressBarElement: an updatable element for a progress bar. Refactored from fproxy. - Requests have a unique ID, available from ToadletContext, and put in a hidden value in PageMaker. Event tracking: - PushDataToadlet: fetch data from here. - PushNotificationToadlet: poll for updates from here. - PushKeepaliveToadlet: send keepalives here. - FailoverToadlet: arbitrates failover. - PushDataManager: Tracks elements that need updating, elements currently displayed, etc. - Client sends a keepalive every 10 seconds. Anything not received in 21 seconds is pruned. Refactoring: - Factor out FProxyFetchTracker.getFetcher(). Trivial: - 2x test commits. My comments about the code: Synchronization issues in PushDataManager: In the early commits this was inconsistent, are you happy with it now? Hidden input for the request ID (in PageMaker): is this valid HTML? IIRC it's not inside a form? Is separating data from notifications more efficient, even though it involves more round-trips? Re "+" in base64, you could just use a different encoding - the freenet nonstandard base64 for example. You can easily change the base64 code used in the java code to deal with this? OTOH you could avoid it completely with some changes to the wire format... In the cleaner thread: + for (Entry entry : new HashMap(isKeepaliveReceived).entrySet()) { ... + isKeepaliveReceived.put(entry.getKey(), false); Is this safe? You don't get ConcurrentModificationException's? Please use Ticker rather than java timers, because of thread pooling and thread priority issues. Would it make sense to randomise the failover interval slightly, so that one fails over and then the other two don't need to? You are assuming we will almost never reach MAX_MESSAGES, and in that case the output will just be a little out of date, this is probably reasonable. PushDataManager.awaitingNotifications only contains the "leaders", correct? But all events are broadcast to all leaders? (Javadocs for the variables would be nice) -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 835 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: <https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/attachments/20090617/a381b748/attachment.pgp>
[freenet-dev] Asynchronous image loading
Ok, thats true. But the browser won't show an image till all the image above are shown, because it uses 2-3 connections to fetch the images sequentially. It may happen that a few image that fetches very slowly will hang all the others, even if they are completely present. sashee On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 4:46 PM, Daniel Cheng wrote: > On 17/6/2009 22:36, sashee wrote: >> this way freenet don't start all the >> fetching, just what is requested... When the page loads, freenet > ?> start fetching all the images, > > Did you look at your /config/fproxy page ? > There is an option called "Enable prefetching of inline images" .. > >> What you think? > > :) > ___ > Devl mailing list > Devl at freenetproject.org > http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl >
[freenet-dev] First status report of my GSoC project
When I said pushng, I meant pushing, really. It is achieved via long polling, means that the browser makes a connection, and the server wait till data changes. If it does, then it replies, and the browser opens another connection. So a data change triggers it, and not just frequent polling. sashee On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 4:46 PM, Thomas Bruderer wrote: > sashee wrote: > > This sounds very promising :) and it is certainly a nice feature we all will > appreciate very much. > > However I have a rather technical questions out of curiousity, you talk > several times about "pushing" the content. > >> It is accomplished with ajax requests and javascript at the client side >> ?so pushing works and connection sharing also > > > Do you really push the content to the browser when the state changed, or > does the client just poll every 2 seconds as it does now for the complete > page? > > Comparing: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/AJAX vs > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet_(programming) > > Just curious :) since you use a toadlet I can imagine that both would be > viable solutions. > > Apophis > > ___ > Devl mailing list > Devl at freenetproject.org > http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl >
[freenet-dev] usability testing
Matthew Toseland skrev: > On Wednesday 17 June 2009 09:54:18 Zero3 wrote: >> Matthew Toseland skrev: >>> On Tuesday 16 June 2009 21:53:09 Zero3 wrote: Matthew Toseland skrev: > On Sunday 14 June 2009 14:24:39 Zero3 wrote: >> a) On the front page of the website: A "What is Freenet?" teaser linking >> to the "What is Freenet?" page would be cool. Confusedly started to read >> the news item instead. (She should have spotted the "News" headline, but >> I agree on the teaser) > I think originally the reason for putting news on the main page was that > a lot of people check back on the website repeatedly, looking for new > stuff (i.e. news) ?: > > I agree we should have some basic explanation and link on the home page > though ... I am not quite sure whether just copying the first para from > "What is Freenet" as Dieppe has done is sufficient? > > "Freenet is free software which lets you publish and obtain information > on the Internet without fear of censorship. To achieve this freedom, the > network is entirely decentralized and publishers and consumers of > information are anonymous. Without anonymity there can never be true > freedom of speech, and without decentralization the network will be > vulnerable to attack." > > Followed by a link to learn more, a download link and news. > > Is this sufficiently comprehensible to newbies? I guess so, but it > doesn't really answer the question! I think it's quite good actually! I think "Without anonymity there can never be true freedom of speech") is a bit subjective though. >>> Alternatives? Clearly anonymity is a direct consequence of the overriding >>> goal of thwarting censorship. >> Ala "The anonymity of Freenet makes true freedom of speech possible" > > Freenet is free software which lets you anonymously share files, browse and > publish "freesites" (web sites accessible only through Freenet) and chat on > forums, without fear of censorship. Freenet is decentralised to make it less > vulnerable to attack. > > Or even: > > Freenet is free software which lets you anonymously share files, browse and > publish "freesites" (web sites accessible only through Freenet) and chat on > forums, without fear of censorship. Freenet is decentralised to make it less > vulnerable to attack, and if used in "darknet" mode, where users only connect > to their friends, is very difficult to detect. > > ??? Sounds better to me. >> Very annoying to be asked to install a second >> browser. In this case, a third (using FF with IE as backup. And user is >> asked not to use IE). More FUD about history leaks. > FUD stands for Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. Unfortunately, the warnings > about browser history stealing are factually true. Perhaps there is an > argument for not naming such attacks if this intimidates people? Is the > problem with IE important? There are possibilities for working around it, > there has never been much enthusiasm for implementing them (even from ian > who tends to be usability oriented). Exactly. The user is fears the consequences of history leaks and is uncertain what he ought to do, and thereby doubts his security and privacy using Freenet. >>> He knows what he needs to do - use a separate browser. Don't we make that >>> clear? It may be annoying but it is clear, no? >> It is indeed very clear, but as you say, also damn annoying. If >> possible, I think we should avoid annoying the user. > > Well, any suggestions you may have... afaics the best option on windows is to > run Chrome in incognito mode, and tell the wizard not to show the warning. > But in that case we need to warn the user if they ever use another browser - > and we can't tell the difference between Chrome in incognito mode and Chrome > not in incognito mode, so I think we should display the warning anyway, we > just need to rewrite it a bit for the case where we are using Chrome in > incognito mode: > > "You must always use a browser with incognito mode for Freenet! > > You are currently using Freenet through Chrome in incognito mode. This should > be safe. You should always access Freenet using Chrome in incognito mode, or > through a browser you do not using for normal web browsing. The Browse > Freenet link on the start menu should use Chrome in incognito mode, and so > should be safe. Most browsers will work well with Freenet, except for > Internet Explorer. > > Click here to continue." > > ??? I don't think we should display a warning when the user is browsing in incognito mode. When the user is not (or we don't know for sure), we could do it. - Zero3
[freenet-dev] First status report of my GSoC project
sashee wrote: This sounds very promising :) and it is certainly a nice feature we all will appreciate very much. However I have a rather technical questions out of curiousity, you talk several times about "pushing" the content. > It is accomplished with ajax requests and javascript at the client side > > so pushing works and connection sharing also Do you really push the content to the browser when the state changed, or does the client just poll every 2 seconds as it does now for the complete page? Comparing: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/AJAX vs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet_(programming) Just curious :) since you use a toadlet I can imagine that both would be viable solutions. Apophis -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: smime.p7s Type: application/x-pkcs7-signature Size: 3537 bytes Desc: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature URL: <https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/attachments/20090617/76786246/attachment.bin>
Re: [freenet-dev] Asynchronous image loading
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 20:19:25 sashee wrote: > Ok, I'll schedule that then. > > One thing that *is* critical is that we stop loading the images if the user > > closes the page, but afaics the existing infrastructure will do that. > > I really dont think that anything gets notified when the user closes > the tab. So I dont think fetching is stopped then. > > As I see the prefetching has a 1 minute timeout, so it isn't really > solving things. Inline prefetch fetches stuff, but only those, that > are fast, and kills the others. And the browser's request fetches the > other(almost all) images, 2(3) at a time. Asyncronous fetching would > solve that problem, because it can notify(and cancel) the fetches when > the user actually closes the tab. Or at least within 21 seconds of closing the tab. :) Can you improve on that? > > sashee > > On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Matthew > Toseland wrote: > > On Wednesday 17 June 2009 19:23:22 sashee wrote: > >> So my question is: Is it needed? If it helps, I'll do it before the > >> midterm evals, but if it doesnt improve anything, then no need to > >> program it. > > > > Yes. IMHO it is important. Prefetching has never worked well on new nodes, > > and doesn't solve the connection limit problem anyway. Also the > > infrastructure will be interesting as later on we may want notifications on > > loaded pages (e.g. "there is a more recent version of this page available", > > but maybe also critical node events). > > > > Feel free to make a very basic implementation where you either have the > > loaded image or you have a loading graphic with no indication of how far it > > has got. *Ideally* we'd have the loading images be dependant on how far the > > request has got, but this isn't essential, certainly not for a first > > approximation ... another interesting option would be to show a progress > > bar showing the overall progress, ETA, etc. One thing that *is* critical is > > that we stop loading the images if the user closes the page, but afaics the > > existing infrastructure will do that. > >> > >> On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 5:44 PM, sashee wrote: > >> > Ok, thats true. But the browser won't show an image till all the image > >> > above are shown, because it uses 2-3 connections to fetch the images > >> > sequentially. It may happen that a few image that fetches very slowly > >> > will hang all the others, even if they are completely present. > >> > > >> > sashee > >> > > >> > On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 4:46 PM, Daniel Cheng > >> > wrote: > >> >> On 17/6/2009 22:36, sashee wrote: > >> >>> this way freenet don't start all the > >> >>> fetching, just what is requested... When the page loads, freenet > >> >> > start fetching all the images, > >> >> > >> >> Did you look at your /config/fproxy page ? > >> >> There is an option called "Enable prefetching of inline images" .. > >> >> > >> >>> What you think? > >> >> > >> >> :) > > > > ___ > > Devl mailing list > > Devl@freenetproject.org > > http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl > > > ___ > Devl mailing list > Devl@freenetproject.org > http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl > > signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] need graphic design help
> I think he means that users in "poor" areas usually run pirated versions > of XP with the included IE6. Many of these installations won't have a > functional Windows Update because of the "Genuine Advantage" stuff > Microsoft pushes through it. Wich means that they won't get IE updates > automatically, and probably won't/can't upgrade manually. That's it! But not only poor areas, only companies and laptop users run genuine software. Brand computers (Dell, IBM, etc) are only purchased by multinational corporations. I used an original copy of windows for a work in a big corp, not even un goverment offices (kinda fun). I think that the same scenarios goes for all latin america... Venezuela, Bolivia and Cuba are in "delicate" positions regarding freedom of speech. Chavez already closed a TV channel =D For the PNG thing, we can use the PNG with transparent background and in the tag include: No new image is needed, those javascripts "fix" it.
[freenet-dev] Asynchronous image loading
Hello folks! Some days ago, I've talked with nextgens about toadlet continuations(it's asynchronous request processing), and he had a point that when the user opens a site with lots of images, then it needs many connections open for a long time, and it spawns many threads at serverside, which is resource demanding and some OSes don't allow. The browser has a maximum connection limit to the site, but the user can overwrite it. But at the default, firefox opens only 2-3 connections to fetch the images, this way freenet don't start all the fetching, just what is requested. So one problem is that if a user alters the browser's config, then it will result many threads, if not, then freenet can't download all the content simultanously. I think with pushing, I'm working on, can be a solution for both problems. When the page loads, freenet start fetching all the images, and the browser gets the progress with 1 permanent connection. There can be an image eg. "Image is loading...10%" and after some progress change to 20% and so on, and when finishes downloading, it shows or says eg. "Image finished loading, click to display". If it's done, we don't need continuations anymore. Ofc it would need javascript to be enabled. What you think? sashee
[freenet-dev] Asynchronous image loading
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 15:36:26 sashee wrote: > Hello folks! > > Some days ago, I've talked with nextgens about toadlet > continuations(it's asynchronous request processing), and he had a > point that when the user opens a site with lots of images, then it > needs many connections open for a long time, and it spawns many > threads at serverside, which is resource demanding and some OSes don't > allow. The browser has a maximum connection limit to the site, but the > user can overwrite it. But at the default, firefox opens only 2-3 > connections to fetch the images, this way freenet don't start all the > fetching, just what is requested. So one problem is that if a user > alters the browser's config, then it will result many threads, if not, > then freenet can't download all the content simultanously. > I think with pushing, I'm working on, can be a solution for both > problems. When the page loads, freenet start fetching all the images, > and the browser gets the progress with 1 permanent connection. There > can be an image eg. "Image is loading...10%" and after some progress > change to 20% and so on, and when finishes downloading, it shows or > says eg. "Image finished loading, click to display". If it's done, we > don't need continuations anymore. Ofc it would need javascript to be > enabled. IMHO it should just replace the progress image with the final image contents, i.e. change the link to point to the image now that we know it's been fetched (use some caching to avoid stalling, but mostly it should load fast). > > What you think? Apart from that, it sounds like a good solution. > > sashee -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 835 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: <https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/attachments/20090617/b9c9b9de/attachment.pgp>
[freenet-dev] need graphic design help
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 14:27:28 Caco Patane wrote: > > Cool. We could actually do that in CSS, we should probably have hops as a > > png rather than SVG but that's easy... Would you mind exporting the logo as > > a transparent PNG of the correct dimensions, for the time being? > > Be aware of PNG because IE6 does not support well PNG transparency (is > IE6 anyway...). Hmmm... do we care? How many people use IE6 at the moment? And what exactly happens on IE6 with 1-bit-transparent PNGs? -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 835 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: <https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/attachments/20090617/3bc0f310/attachment.pgp>
[freenet-dev] First status report of my GSoC project
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Matthew Toseland wrote: > On Wednesday 17 June 2009 13:27:10 sashee wrote: >> Hello everybody! >> >> This is time for my first status report, because mid-term evals are >> approaching. >> >> Some introduction, what I'm doing exactly. My project is to introduce >> web pushing to the web interface. That actually means, that the data >> displayed are refreshed automatically, without the need to refresh the >> whole page. It is accomplished with ajax requests and javascript at >> the client side, and some toadlets at the serverside. Toad had a >> concern about the number of opened connections, so a connection >> sharing mechanism is also a requirement. This connection sharing >> ensures that only 1 permanent connection is used per browser, no >> matter how many tabs are open. Another requirement is that the web >> interface must be usable when javascript is disabled(but pushing wont >> work that way) >> >> About my current status:I've created the basic infrastructure both >> server and client side, so pushing works and connection sharing also. > > Great! You have tested this? Yes, you can test it too, by going to the status page with 2 browser tabs. You will see the numbers counting on both of them. Then close the one that you opened earlier(that holds the connection) and see the other tab. It should stop for 3-4 seconds(in that time, it realises, that there is no open connection, and opens a new one), and will continue counting. > >> Currently only the progress bar on the progress page is pushed, but it >> nicely visualize the feature. The client side is written in java, and >> transformed to javascript with the help of the GWT compiler. > > Very nice. >> >> How to check the current status: >> Pull and checkout to the web-pushing branch, then build the project. >> Please don't distclean, because it will delete the generated >> javascript, and you won't be able to generate it yourself atm. Then >> start Freenet, and open a browser with it. You have to enable >> javascript both on your browser and on Freenet. Now you should browse >> Freenet, and see the progress bar is updating, and when the loading is >> ready, you get the page you just fetched. I've put some tester >> elements at the status page, they are increased by 1 every second. >> They help to see bugs, as they use pushing heavily. >> >> I've tested it at Firefox both windows and linux, and IE7. They worked >> well, although testing on other systems would be helpful. > > Chrome compatibility is important. The current progress bar javascript > doesn't work on Chrome, we have to detect AppleWebKit (also used for Safari, > default browser on OS/X) and fall back to a refresh at the moment. Chrome is > important because it is the only currently shipping browser to have an > incognito mode; hence, on Windows, if Chrome is installed, we use it. > Hopefully GWT solves the compatibility issues the hand-crafted code has, but > we need to verify this. I've tried Chrome and it worked like the others. >> >> Please don't use pushing, just for testing and reviewing. It has some >> major bug that needs to be addressed. But feedback is always >> appreciated. >> >> What's next? >> As I've 3 weeks before mid term eval, I'll fix the known bugs and >> optimize some processes, and it also needs be documented and >> commented. The pushing can also be used for the images' loading, but >> I'll write a separate email about that. > > That would be very helpful yes, probably more important than the original > project of making the various status pages dynamically update. > > Apologies for not reviewing/testing your code so far, have been busy with the > release. I'm not here from the 20th to the 27th so I will try to review all > recent changes, especially for my SoC students, and test the code where > possible. No problem, I've had work to do anyway. >> >> sashee >
[freenet-dev] need graphic design help
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 14:54:21 Matthew Toseland wrote: > On Wednesday 17 June 2009 01:03:38 Cl?ment wrote: > > On Wednesday 17 June 2009 01:18:28 Ian Clarke wrote: > > > Ok, we need some help with the website, surely someone out there knows > > > their way around Gimp, or Adobe Illustrator or something, or has a > > > friend that does? > > > > > > Highest priorities: > > > > > > - Fix the logo on the website - it should be "Freenet", not "FreeNet" > > > > See attached (I sent the svg file, so everyone can edit it). > > Cool. We could actually do that in CSS, we should probably have hops as a > png rather than SVG but that's easy... Would you mind exporting the logo as > a transparent PNG of the correct dimensions, for the time being? > See attached. > > > - Create a decent "Get Freenet" button, something vaguely like what > > > they have on http://getfirefox.com/ or http://jquery.com/. Stuff like > > > "Version" should be overlayed in text, not drawn on the image, so that > > > it can be changed easily. > > > > I asked my girlfriend for that. It should be done by tomorrow. I can't > > have any guarantee for the result of course :) > > > :) ------ next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: freenet_logo.png Type: image/png Size: 4801 bytes Desc: not available URL: <https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/attachments/20090617/c7f53a7f/attachment.png>
[freenet-dev] First status report of my GSoC project
Hello everybody! This is time for my first status report, because mid-term evals are approaching. Some introduction, what I'm doing exactly. My project is to introduce web pushing to the web interface. That actually means, that the data displayed are refreshed automatically, without the need to refresh the whole page. It is accomplished with ajax requests and javascript at the client side, and some toadlets at the serverside. Toad had a concern about the number of opened connections, so a connection sharing mechanism is also a requirement. This connection sharing ensures that only 1 permanent connection is used per browser, no matter how many tabs are open. Another requirement is that the web interface must be usable when javascript is disabled(but pushing wont work that way) About my current status:I've created the basic infrastructure both server and client side, so pushing works and connection sharing also. Currently only the progress bar on the progress page is pushed, but it nicely visualize the feature. The client side is written in java, and transformed to javascript with the help of the GWT compiler. How to check the current status: Pull and checkout to the web-pushing branch, then build the project. Please don't distclean, because it will delete the generated javascript, and you won't be able to generate it yourself atm. Then start Freenet, and open a browser with it. You have to enable javascript both on your browser and on Freenet. Now you should browse Freenet, and see the progress bar is updating, and when the loading is ready, you get the page you just fetched. I've put some tester elements at the status page, they are increased by 1 every second. They help to see bugs, as they use pushing heavily. I've tested it at Firefox both windows and linux, and IE7. They worked well, although testing on other systems would be helpful. Please don't use pushing, just for testing and reviewing. It has some major bug that needs to be addressed. But feedback is always appreciated. What's next? As I've 3 weeks before mid term eval, I'll fix the known bugs and optimize some processes, and it also needs be documented and commented. The pushing can also be used for the images' loading, but I'll write a separate email about that. sashee
[freenet-dev] First status report of my GSoC project
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 13:27:10 sashee wrote: > Hello everybody! > > This is time for my first status report, because mid-term evals are > approaching. > > Some introduction, what I'm doing exactly. My project is to introduce > web pushing to the web interface. That actually means, that the data > displayed are refreshed automatically, without the need to refresh the > whole page. It is accomplished with ajax requests and javascript at > the client side, and some toadlets at the serverside. Toad had a > concern about the number of opened connections, so a connection > sharing mechanism is also a requirement. This connection sharing > ensures that only 1 permanent connection is used per browser, no > matter how many tabs are open. Another requirement is that the web > interface must be usable when javascript is disabled(but pushing wont > work that way) > > About my current status:I've created the basic infrastructure both > server and client side, so pushing works and connection sharing also. Great! You have tested this? > Currently only the progress bar on the progress page is pushed, but it > nicely visualize the feature. The client side is written in java, and > transformed to javascript with the help of the GWT compiler. Very nice. > > How to check the current status: > Pull and checkout to the web-pushing branch, then build the project. > Please don't distclean, because it will delete the generated > javascript, and you won't be able to generate it yourself atm. Then > start Freenet, and open a browser with it. You have to enable > javascript both on your browser and on Freenet. Now you should browse > Freenet, and see the progress bar is updating, and when the loading is > ready, you get the page you just fetched. I've put some tester > elements at the status page, they are increased by 1 every second. > They help to see bugs, as they use pushing heavily. > > I've tested it at Firefox both windows and linux, and IE7. They worked > well, although testing on other systems would be helpful. Chrome compatibility is important. The current progress bar javascript doesn't work on Chrome, we have to detect AppleWebKit (also used for Safari, default browser on OS/X) and fall back to a refresh at the moment. Chrome is important because it is the only currently shipping browser to have an incognito mode; hence, on Windows, if Chrome is installed, we use it. Hopefully GWT solves the compatibility issues the hand-crafted code has, but we need to verify this. > > Please don't use pushing, just for testing and reviewing. It has some > major bug that needs to be addressed. But feedback is always > appreciated. > > What's next? > As I've 3 weeks before mid term eval, I'll fix the known bugs and > optimize some processes, and it also needs be documented and > commented. The pushing can also be used for the images' loading, but > I'll write a separate email about that. That would be very helpful yes, probably more important than the original project of making the various status pages dynamically update. Apologies for not reviewing/testing your code so far, have been busy with the release. I'm not here from the 20th to the 27th so I will try to review all recent changes, especially for my SoC students, and test the code where possible. > > sashee -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 835 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: <https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/attachments/20090617/e4b557c3/attachment.pgp>
[freenet-dev] Good screenshots needed
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Ian Clarke wrote: > I've been doing quite a bit of work in my day job with people who have > done a vast amount of testing of the effectiveness of different > website designs. > > If I were to condense what I've learned into a single caveman > sentence, it would be: > > ?"Big dense blocks of text: BAD, Pictures: GOOD" The bad thing is: our fproxy homepage don't have any picture. Those little ActiveLinks icons got disabled by default. > > Screenshots are important, when I want to get a sense of a piece of > software one of the first things I look for is a screenshot. > > Ian. > > -- > Ian Clarke > CEO, Uprizer Labs > Email: ian at uprizer.com > Ph: +1 512 422 3588 > Fax: +1 512 276 6674 > ___ > Devl mailing list > Devl at freenetproject.org > http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl >
[freenet-dev] Good screenshots needed
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 08:17:56 Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > Am Mittwoch, 17. Juni 2009 08:06:30 schrieb Daniel Cheng: > > The bad thing is: our fproxy homepage don't have any picture. > > > > Those little ActiveLinks icons got disabled by default. > > Try using Firefox - at least for me it shows the activelinks. Only because they're enabled in your config. They are off by default. -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 835 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: <https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/attachments/20090617/d1bb63db/attachment.pgp>
[freenet-dev] Good screenshots needed
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 07:06:30 Daniel Cheng wrote: > On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Ian Clarke wrote: > > I've been doing quite a bit of work in my day job with people who have > > done a vast amount of testing of the effectiveness of different > > website designs. > > > > If I were to condense what I've learned into a single caveman > > sentence, it would be: > > > > ?"Big dense blocks of text: BAD, Pictures: GOOD" > > The bad thing is: our fproxy homepage don't have any picture. > > Those little ActiveLinks icons got disabled by default. Well, hopefully people's default instinct to search will be less of a problem in future versions because we'll have a non-schizophrenic search index? > > > Screenshots are important, when I want to get a sense of a piece of > > software one of the first things I look for is a screenshot. > > > > Ian. -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 835 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: <https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/attachments/20090617/09c8e389/attachment.pgp>
[freenet-dev] Good screenshots needed
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 03:16:18 Ian Clarke wrote: > I've been doing quite a bit of work in my day job with people who have > done a vast amount of testing of the effectiveness of different > website designs. > > If I were to condense what I've learned into a single caveman > sentence, it would be: > > "Big dense blocks of text: BAD, Pictures: GOOD" > > Screenshots are important, when I want to get a sense of a piece of > software one of the first things I look for is a screenshot. Yes but screenshots with no visible news, and which aren't updated for years? Doesn't that put off the significant number of people who've tried Freenet before and come back on a slashdot to see if it's improved? -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 835 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: <https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/attachments/20090617/3108b00b/attachment.pgp>
[freenet-dev] need graphic design help
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 01:19:23 Gerard Krol wrote: > Cl?ment wrote: > > On Wednesday 17 June 2009 01:18:28 Ian Clarke wrote: > > > >> Ok, we need some help with the website, surely someone out there knows > >> their way around Gimp, or Adobe Illustrator or something, or has a > >> friend that does? > >> > >> Highest priorities: > >> > >> - Fix the logo on the website - it should be "Freenet", not "FreeNet" > >> > >> > > See attached (I sent the svg file, so everyone can edit it). > > > I made the text bold and move the rabbit behind it. It now looks vaguely > familiar. > I don't hope I copied some other well known logo. > > Let me know what you think! IMHO Dieppe's version is better, but what we really need is a button for downloading it... Something that could live on the main page directly under the what is freenet section, above the news (or screenshots). Ian suggests something like the firefox download icon - that involves their project symbol and a gradient, so it's pretty straightforward, and then we can put easily edited text on top via CSS. -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 835 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: <https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/attachments/20090617/a7f79b7e/attachment.pgp>
[freenet-dev] need graphic design help
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 01:03:38 Cl?ment wrote: > On Wednesday 17 June 2009 01:18:28 Ian Clarke wrote: > > Ok, we need some help with the website, surely someone out there knows > > their way around Gimp, or Adobe Illustrator or something, or has a > > friend that does? > > > > Highest priorities: > > > > - Fix the logo on the website - it should be "Freenet", not "FreeNet" > > > See attached (I sent the svg file, so everyone can edit it). Cool. We could actually do that in CSS, we should probably have hops as a png rather than SVG but that's easy... Would you mind exporting the logo as a transparent PNG of the correct dimensions, for the time being? > > - Create a decent "Get Freenet" button, something vaguely like what > > they have on http://getfirefox.com/ or http://jquery.com/. Stuff like > > "Version" should be overlayed in text, not drawn on the image, so that > > it can be changed easily. > > > I asked my girlfriend for that. It should be done by tomorrow. I can't have > any guarantee for the result of course :) :) -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 835 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: <https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/attachments/20090617/ee8cb02a/attachment.pgp>
[freenet-dev] Beta of Windows tray icon + update.cmd updating
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 02:45:19 Juiceman wrote: > On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 7:53 PM, Matthew > Toseland wrote: > > On Wednesday 17 June 2009 00:48:44 Juiceman wrote: > >> On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 7:16 PM, Matthew > >> Toseland wrote: > >> > On Tuesday 16 June 2009 23:16:58 Zero3 wrote: > >> >> I've successfully (I think?) branched the master branch of > >> >> wininstaller-staging at github to a new beta branch. This branch now > >> >> contains the upcoming Windows tray icon. > >> >> > >> >> Please feel free to test. Even small fixes like spelling and grammar is > >> >> more than welcome (because mine suck ;)). > >> >> > >> >> Source: http://github.com/freenet/wininstaller-staging/tree/beta > >> >> Binary: http://privat.zero3.dk/FreenetInstaller_Beta.exe (old jars, > >> >> seednodes, translations and so on. Not meant for anything but testing) > >> > > >> > Cool! > >> >> > >> >> The update.cmd script will soon need to support the updating of various > >> >> helper executables, most importantly freenetlauncher.exe, but if > >> >> possible, all of them. > >> > > >> > Ok. > >> >> > >> >> (Are these on the website somewhere yet Matthew? Along with a plan of > >> >> how they are kept up-to-date...) > >> >> > >> >> If update.cmd tries to update bin\freenettray.exe, it should first do > >> >> something like: > >> >> > >> >> taskkill /IM freenettray.exe > >> >> if not errorlevel 1 > >> >> > >> >> (... as we can't update running Windows executables) > >> > > >> > https://checksums.freenetproject.org/cc/[filename] > >> > for filename in: > >> > wrapper-windows-x86-32.exe wrapper-windows-x86-32.dll start.exe stop.exe > >> > freenetlauncher.exe > >> > >> It would be great if we could see the directory listing when we access > >> https://checksums.freenetproject.org/cc/ is this possible? > >> > >> How do you suggest we check for newer versions of the files? > >> Downloading them all and then comparing is a waste of bandwidth... I > >> could compare the .sha1 of the files if those exist. ?That would be > >> minuscule bandwidth. > >> > >> I propose to start checking freenet-ext.jar this way, saving almost 4mb > >> per run. > > > > Yes, that is exactly how it is supposed to work. Furthermore, checking the > > .sha1 over HTTPS is a good thing in terms of security. So please go for it! > > I can't tell for sure because directory listing is denied on that > folder of the website, but I don't think the .sha1 files for the > downloads are in https://checksums.freenetproject.org/cc/ Hmmm, that's wierd. Get the sha1 from /latest/ then. -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 835 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: <https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/attachments/20090617/fa573f14/attachment.pgp>
[freenet-dev] usability testing
on), we will need JSTUN as well. But because both of these things potentially lead to attacks and detectability, we need to ask the user about them. "Enable Universal Plug and Play. Disable this if you are directly connected to your ISP (e.g. via dial-up modem or building-level ethernet) or have untrusted people on your local network, and you are worried about local attacks. Most users should leave this enabled." > > > JSTUN does help even with opennet, but yes it probably isn't necessary - if > > we lose all our peers, we reannounce, and seednodes tell us our new IP > > address... > > Hmm. It is true that we pick up our IP address from our seed servers when we connect, but on the other hand, this does need to be tested; we need to connect to 3 or so to be confident about our IP address, meaning we should wait until then before sending announcements, so there may be complications... Perhaps JSTUN should default to off on opennet? Anything that discourages users from using darknet is a *BAD THING* in terms of their security individually and the robustness of the network at large. "Enable automatic detection of our IP address via STUN servers (also used by telephony apps). This generally makes your connection more reliable, especially if you only connect to friends. However it might be used to help identify your node. You do not need this if you have a static IP address, and tell the node what it is, or if UPnP works (above), but UPnP tends to be unreliable. Most users should leave this enabled." And yes, we do tell the user to load the plugins if we don't have IP detection plugins loaded and are having difficulty detecting our IP address. Although IIRC we don't tell them if we just have UPnP loaded, we probably should... > > > On darknet you really need one of the two, or a static/dyndns IP address, > > or at least an online peer that hasn't changed its address... > >>>> h) FUD on the main fproxy page after finally getting through the wizard: > >>> Is there an implication here that it is too long? Any suggestions as to > >>> what to take out? Taking a big chunk of the user's disk space and > >>> bandwidth without asking used to lose us quite a few users. Making > >>> assumptions about security is likely to cause problems for those few > >>> users that do need it... I have considered getting rid of the welcome > >>> page at the beginning that allows you to not use the wizard... > >> A bit too long, yeah. On top of my head: > >> > >> Welcome page: Move general info to next page, put a skip button in the > >> header/footer/corner somewhere on all other pages instead. > > > > Or just get rid of it. IMHO just casually skipping it is the easy way out > > and will require us to implement dangerous defaults. We should just dump > > it. Advanced users will figure out that once you get past the browser > > warning it will think you've completed it anyway, everyone else needs to go > > through the wizard. > >> Ram usage: Don't ask. Either use static default (as now) or dynamic > >> according to available memory. Advanced users can adjust it in settings > >> afterwards. > > > > We don't ask for ram usage any more. Do we? > > We did not very long ago. Dunno? We don't. > > >> IP detection page: See above. What about the "Welcome on board!" page? It is repeating ourselves, isn't it? Does it contribute anything of value? > >> > >> Security levels: Perhaps figure out some smart way to merge either some > >> of the levels or some of the pages? > > > > One very long page which nobody will read? IMHO they are logically > > distinct, and significant. For example, if the physical security level is > > set to LOW temp file handling and thus the responsiveness of the node are > > considerably improved. Arguably we only need a friends security level if we > > add darknet peers, but we want users to add darknet peers, and we want to > > be secure by default, i.e. ask them BEFORE they add a peer... > >>>> Big read warning about connecting to the network. (Agreed. Since this is > >>>> to be expected, we shouldn't display a big, fat, red warning box. This > >>>> makes users go FUD and think they did something wrong or something is > >>>> broken. Make it a big, fat infobox instad. > >>> What big red warning? "The node is trying to connect to the network, it > >>> will be slow for a while." ??? How is this FUD? Users don't read, and > >>> have unrealistic expectations, so it is IMHO essential to tell them, > >>> while we have less than 10 peers, that Freenet may be slow for a while. > >>> Several times when I have done test installs this hasn't even shown up > >>> since it has reached 10 peers before showing the browse page! > >> There will probably always be people around who refuse to read. I > >> personally don't think we should sacifice usability for smart users to > >> satisfy the stupid ones :). > > > > I don't see why it is a usability issue, we are simply telling the user the > > facts. > >> It's not so much the size that bugged the reviewer, but rather the fact > >> that it was presented as a *red warning* and not as an white infobox or > >> similar. > > > > Messages do not belong in infoboxes, they belong in messages. If you want > > the detail you click on it and it will show you the detail in an infobox. > > So really what he is complaining about is the little red X icon next to it. > > The purpose of which is to draw the user's attention. This is only shown if > > bootstrapping is particularly slow as I mentioned above... > > I think I'm explaining myself poorly. The format of the text is good, it > just shouldn't be a marked red (with icon + the whole box turns red > because of it). The format of the text is identical for any message. > > Since the node won't connect to opennet peers before we go through the > wizard, it most likely won't have 10 peers when the user sees the fproxy > homepage for the first time. Depends on how fast bootstrapping is, we start adding opennet peers as soon as the network seclevel is set. > > - Zero3 -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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[freenet-dev] About the website
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 07:40:18 Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > Am Mittwoch, 17. Juni 2009 05:26:25 schrieb Luke771: > > Browse and publish 'freesites' (Freenet-hosted websites) > > This one sounds very nice to me. It gets people into the freenet-speech and > at > the same time tells them why we use it (what's the difference between a > freesite and a normal website). Currently it is: Freenet is free software which lets you anonymously share files, browse and publish "freesites" (web sites accessible only through Freenet) and chat on forums, without fear of censorship. Users are anonymous, and Freenet is entirely decentralised. Without anonymity there can never be true freedom of speech, and without decentralisation the network would be vulnerable to attack. -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 835 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: <https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/attachments/20090617/8bbdbe45/attachment.pgp>
Re: [freenet-dev] need graphic design help
As I see in the statistics (http://www.w3schools.com/browsers/browsers_stats.asp) IE6 has 14.5% share and radically decreasing. In my opinion, I think it should be left dead as it should have been a long time ago. I don't think if somebody uses that good-for-nothing browser, he will be too irritated seeing something is broken in it. sashee On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 9:43 PM, Caco Patane wrote: >> I think he means that users in "poor" areas usually run pirated versions >> of XP with the included IE6. Many of these installations won't have a >> functional Windows Update because of the "Genuine Advantage" stuff >> Microsoft pushes through it. Wich means that they won't get IE updates >> automatically, and probably won't/can't upgrade manually. > > That's it! But not only poor areas, only companies and laptop users > run genuine software. Brand computers (Dell, IBM, etc) are only > purchased by multinational corporations. I used an original copy of > windows for a work in a big corp, not even un goverment offices (kinda > fun). I think that the same scenarios goes for all latin america... > Venezuela, Bolivia and Cuba are in "delicate" positions regarding > freedom of speech. Chavez already closed a TV channel =D > > For the PNG thing, we can use the PNG with transparent background and > in the tag include: > > > > No new image is needed, those javascripts "fix" it. > ___ > Devl mailing list > Devl@freenetproject.org > http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl > ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Recent work on web-pushing branch
> This is going to be very inefficient for a public gateway... otoh maybe > that's not an important use case. In fact, it's a privacy issue for a node > serving several users over a LAN (or even more so for a public gateway). Can > you reasonably easily make it track who is subscribed to which leader? It should be doable, will think about it. sashee ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] need graphic design help
> I think he means that users in "poor" areas usually run pirated versions > of XP with the included IE6. Many of these installations won't have a > functional Windows Update because of the "Genuine Advantage" stuff > Microsoft pushes through it. Wich means that they won't get IE updates > automatically, and probably won't/can't upgrade manually. That's it! But not only poor areas, only companies and laptop users run genuine software. Brand computers (Dell, IBM, etc) are only purchased by multinational corporations. I used an original copy of windows for a work in a big corp, not even un goverment offices (kinda fun). I think that the same scenarios goes for all latin america... Venezuela, Bolivia and Cuba are in "delicate" positions regarding freedom of speech. Chavez already closed a TV channel =D For the PNG thing, we can use the PNG with transparent background and in the tag include: No new image is needed, those javascripts "fix" it. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] need graphic design help
> Hmmm... do we care? How many people use IE6 at the moment? And what exactly > happens on IE6 with 1-bit-transparent PNGs? At least here (latin america) there are tons of IE6 users: because hardware is expensive nobody installs vista, nobody buys original windows copies and don't get the updates. In webdevelopment usually is a requirement to support IE6 -again, in Latinamerica-. IE6 shows the transparent pixels as grey. There are some nasty hacks that can be done with JS and can be included using HTML conditional comments[1]. Saludos, Caco_Patane [1] http://www.quirksmode.org/css/condcom.html
Re: [freenet-dev] need graphic design help
Matthew Toseland skrev: > On Wednesday 17 June 2009 16:26:35 Caco Patane wrote: >>> Hmmm... do we care? How many people use IE6 at the moment? And what exactly >>> happens on IE6 with 1-bit-transparent PNGs? >> At least here (latin america) there are tons of IE6 users: because >> hardware is expensive nobody installs vista, nobody buys original >> windows copies and don't get the updates. In webdevelopment usually is >> a requirement to support IE6 -again, in Latinamerica-. > > Hmmm, I thought IE7 was available for XP? Both IE 7 and IE 8 are available for XP. I think he means that users in "poor" areas usually run pirated versions of XP with the included IE6. Many of these installations won't have a functional Windows Update because of the "Genuine Advantage" stuff Microsoft pushes through it. Wich means that they won't get IE updates automatically, and probably won't/can't upgrade manually. - Zero3 ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Asynchronous image loading
Ok, I'll schedule that then. > One thing that *is* critical is that we stop loading the images if the user > closes the page, but afaics the existing infrastructure will do that. I really dont think that anything gets notified when the user closes the tab. So I dont think fetching is stopped then. As I see the prefetching has a 1 minute timeout, so it isn't really solving things. Inline prefetch fetches stuff, but only those, that are fast, and kills the others. And the browser's request fetches the other(almost all) images, 2(3) at a time. Asyncronous fetching would solve that problem, because it can notify(and cancel) the fetches when the user actually closes the tab. sashee On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Matthew Toseland wrote: > On Wednesday 17 June 2009 19:23:22 sashee wrote: >> So my question is: Is it needed? If it helps, I'll do it before the >> midterm evals, but if it doesnt improve anything, then no need to >> program it. > > Yes. IMHO it is important. Prefetching has never worked well on new nodes, > and doesn't solve the connection limit problem anyway. Also the > infrastructure will be interesting as later on we may want notifications on > loaded pages (e.g. "there is a more recent version of this page available", > but maybe also critical node events). > > Feel free to make a very basic implementation where you either have the > loaded image or you have a loading graphic with no indication of how far it > has got. *Ideally* we'd have the loading images be dependant on how far the > request has got, but this isn't essential, certainly not for a first > approximation ... another interesting option would be to show a progress bar > showing the overall progress, ETA, etc. One thing that *is* critical is that > we stop loading the images if the user closes the page, but afaics the > existing infrastructure will do that. >> >> On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 5:44 PM, sashee wrote: >> > Ok, thats true. But the browser won't show an image till all the image >> > above are shown, because it uses 2-3 connections to fetch the images >> > sequentially. It may happen that a few image that fetches very slowly >> > will hang all the others, even if they are completely present. >> > >> > sashee >> > >> > On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 4:46 PM, Daniel Cheng >> > wrote: >> >> On 17/6/2009 22:36, sashee wrote: >> >>> this way freenet don't start all the >> >>> fetching, just what is requested... When the page loads, freenet >> >> > start fetching all the images, >> >> >> >> Did you look at your /config/fproxy page ? >> >> There is an option called "Enable prefetching of inline images" .. >> >> >> >>> What you think? >> >> >> >> :) > > ___ > Devl mailing list > Devl@freenetproject.org > http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl > ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] About the website
Can you make a link to another languages? (Like french wiki.) See https://bugs.freenetproject.org/view.php?id=2915 On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Matthew Toseland wrote: > On Wednesday 17 June 2009 07:40:18 Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > > Am Mittwoch, 17. Juni 2009 05:26:25 schrieb Luke771: > > > Browse and publish 'freesites' (Freenet-hosted websites) > > > > This one sounds very nice to me. It gets people into the freenet-speech > and at > > the same time tells them why we use it (what's the difference between a > > freesite and a normal website). > > Currently it is: > > Freenet is free software which lets you anonymously share files, browse and > publish "freesites" (web sites accessible only through Freenet) and chat on > forums, without fear of censorship. Users are anonymous, and Freenet is > entirely decentralised. Without anonymity there can never be true freedom of > speech, and without decentralisation the network would be vulnerable to > attack. > > ___ > Devl mailing list > Devl@freenetproject.org > http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl > ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] need graphic design help
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 16:26:35 Caco Patane wrote: > > Hmmm... do we care? How many people use IE6 at the moment? And what exactly > > happens on IE6 with 1-bit-transparent PNGs? > > At least here (latin america) there are tons of IE6 users: because > hardware is expensive nobody installs vista, nobody buys original > windows copies and don't get the updates. In webdevelopment usually is > a requirement to support IE6 -again, in Latinamerica-. Hmmm, I thought IE7 was available for XP? > > IE6 shows the transparent pixels as grey. There are some nasty hacks > that can be done with JS and can be included using HTML conditional > comments[1]. > > Saludos, > Caco_Patane > > [1] http://www.quirksmode.org/css/condcom.html Can you make a version with a background and some javascript to include it on IE6? signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Asynchronous image loading
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 19:23:22 sashee wrote: > So my question is: Is it needed? If it helps, I'll do it before the > midterm evals, but if it doesnt improve anything, then no need to > program it. Yes. IMHO it is important. Prefetching has never worked well on new nodes, and doesn't solve the connection limit problem anyway. Also the infrastructure will be interesting as later on we may want notifications on loaded pages (e.g. "there is a more recent version of this page available", but maybe also critical node events). Feel free to make a very basic implementation where you either have the loaded image or you have a loading graphic with no indication of how far it has got. *Ideally* we'd have the loading images be dependant on how far the request has got, but this isn't essential, certainly not for a first approximation ... another interesting option would be to show a progress bar showing the overall progress, ETA, etc. One thing that *is* critical is that we stop loading the images if the user closes the page, but afaics the existing infrastructure will do that. > > On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 5:44 PM, sashee wrote: > > Ok, thats true. But the browser won't show an image till all the image > > above are shown, because it uses 2-3 connections to fetch the images > > sequentially. It may happen that a few image that fetches very slowly > > will hang all the others, even if they are completely present. > > > > sashee > > > > On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 4:46 PM, Daniel Cheng > > wrote: > >> On 17/6/2009 22:36, sashee wrote: > >>> this way freenet don't start all the > >>> fetching, just what is requested... When the page loads, freenet > >> > start fetching all the images, > >> > >> Did you look at your /config/fproxy page ? > >> There is an option called "Enable prefetching of inline images" .. > >> > >>> What you think? > >> > >> :) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Asynchronous image loading
So my question is: Is it needed? If it helps, I'll do it before the midterm evals, but if it doesnt improve anything, then no need to program it. On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 5:44 PM, sashee wrote: > Ok, thats true. But the browser won't show an image till all the image > above are shown, because it uses 2-3 connections to fetch the images > sequentially. It may happen that a few image that fetches very slowly > will hang all the others, even if they are completely present. > > sashee > > On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 4:46 PM, Daniel Cheng > wrote: >> On 17/6/2009 22:36, sashee wrote: >>> this way freenet don't start all the >>> fetching, just what is requested... When the page loads, freenet >> > start fetching all the images, >> >> Did you look at your /config/fproxy page ? >> There is an option called "Enable prefetching of inline images" .. >> >>> What you think? >> >> :) >> ___ >> Devl mailing list >> Devl@freenetproject.org >> http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl >> > ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] First status report of my GSoC project
Very nice! sashee wrote: When I said pushng, I meant pushing, really. It is achieved via long polling, means that the browser makes a connection, and the server wait till data changes. If it does, then it replies, and the browser opens another connection. So a data change triggers it, and not just frequent polling. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Recent work on web-pushing branch
Thats a good summary, couldnt write it better myself. As for the questions: > Synchronization issues in PushDataManager: In the early commits this was > inconsistent, are you happy with it now? No, I'm not happy with it yet. It has a fatal bug in there, and I'll need to debug it. Sometimes a closed tab has make it to the awaitingNotifications, and it leaks memory. > Hidden input for the request ID (in PageMaker): is this valid HTML? IIRC it's > not inside a form? Firefox says it's valid, so I think it is > Is separating data from notifications more efficient, even though it involves > more round-trips? It is needed, because data can be any size, but cookies has a max. It does involves more round trip, but it's just going to localhost, and thats fast. > Re "+" in base64, you could just use a different encoding - the freenet > nonstandard base64 for example. You can easily change the base64 code used in > the java code to deal with this? OTOH you could avoid it completely with some > changes to the wire format... The "+" is the only problematic character, that is in the BASE64 coding and HTML escaping too. As for now, it hasn't gave me too much headache, but if it will in the future, I'll consider changing. > In the cleaner thread: > + for (Entry entry : new > HashMap(isKeepaliveReceived).entrySet()) { > ... > + > isKeepaliveReceived.put(entry.getKey(), false); > > Is this safe? You don't get ConcurrentModificationException's? It isn't modified concurrently, because a new HashMap is created from the isKeepaliveReceived map, and it's entrySet is being iterated. > > Please use Ticker rather than java timers, because of thread pooling and > thread priority issues. K, will rewrite it > Would it make sense to randomise the failover interval slightly, so that one > fails over and then the other two don't need to? The failover is randomised, because it is based on the loading of the page. It is different for every tab. > You are assuming we will almost never reach MAX_MESSAGES, and in that case > the output will just be a little out of date, this is probably reasonable. MAX_MESSAGES is the maximum difference between the leader's message count and the followers'. It shouldn't be reached, because it would need that the leader has receive events in a 100/10=10ms interval, and thats not possible, an xmlhttpconnection needs more time. If magically the MAX_MESSAGES is hit, then some notifications will be lost. > PushDataManager.awaitingNotifications only contains the "leaders", correct? > But all events are broadcast to all leaders? (Javadocs for the variables > would be nice) All events are broadcast to all leaders, yes. There is one leader for every browser, and because we dont know which request belongs to which browser, we need to broadcast. And because only leaders asks for notifications, we need only to dispatch them to leaders. Thats what the serverside failover does. It copies all the notifications from the old leader's list to the new one. I've only did the coding part yet. When it seems finalized, I'll write comments, javadocs and some documents about how it works and how ppl can code against it. For the build process to be integrated, I'll need the 2 jars to be publicly available somewhere. If it is, then everybody could build even after a distclean. sashee ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] usability testing
Matthew Toseland skrev: > On Tuesday 16 June 2009 21:53:09 Zero3 wrote: >> Matthew Toseland skrev: >>> On Sunday 14 June 2009 14:24:39 Zero3 wrote: a) On the front page of the website: A "What is Freenet?" teaser linking to the "What is Freenet?" page would be cool. Confusedly started to read the news item instead. (She should have spotted the "News" headline, but I agree on the teaser) >>> I think originally the reason for putting news on the main page was that a >>> lot of people check back on the website repeatedly, looking for new stuff >>> (i.e. news) ?: >>> >>> I agree we should have some basic explanation and link on the home page >>> though ... I am not quite sure whether just copying the first para from >>> "What is Freenet" as Dieppe has done is sufficient? >>> >>> "Freenet is free software which lets you publish and obtain information on >>> the Internet without fear of censorship. To achieve this freedom, the >>> network is entirely decentralized and publishers and consumers of >>> information are anonymous. Without anonymity there can never be true >>> freedom of speech, and without decentralization the network will be >>> vulnerable to attack." >>> >>> Followed by a link to learn more, a download link and news. >>> >>> Is this sufficiently comprehensible to newbies? I guess so, but it doesn't >>> really answer the question! >> I think it's quite good actually! I think "Without anonymity there can >> never be true freedom of speech") is a bit subjective though. > > Alternatives? Clearly anonymity is a direct consequence of the overriding > goal of thwarting censorship. Ala "The anonymity of Freenet makes true freedom of speech possible" b) FUD alert on the "What is Freenet?" page: "Freenet does not let the user control what is stored in the data store. [...] Files in the data store are encrypted to reduce the likelihood of prosecution by persons wishing to censor Freenet content." (Agreed. We are scaring some people away before they even reach the download page. I don't think we should hide the facts, but rather give a reasoned explanation for the ways Freenet do things.) >>> I guess there is a language issue here yeah... >>> >>> How about this? (deployed): >>> >>> 'Users contribute to the network by giving bandwidth and a portion of their >>> hard drive (called the "data store") for storing files. Files are >>> automatically kept or deleted depending on how popular they are, with the >>> least popular being discarded to make way for newer or more popular >>> content. Files are encrypted, so generally the user cannot easily discover >>> what is in his datastore, and hopefully can't be held accountable for it.' >> Much better, yeah. >> c) On the "Philosophy" page: More focus on what Freenet actually *can do* for citizens living under censorship and the like. >>> Isn't that what "What is Freenet?" is about? >> Well, yeah, except it doesn't really say anything about it on that page >> either. > > It does now IMHO. Have you read the current version? Yeah, it does mention what you can do with Freenet in general. Dunno. e) On the "Download page": No idea what a "node reference" is. (Could be rephrased or explained better) >>> That's why it's in quotes, and the "Add a friend" page does explain it. Do >>> you have any suggestion as to how to improve the wording? >> Perhaps add a paranthesis explaining the term? > > Is it a problem? If he clicks the link to Add a Friend it will explain it to > him? Given that he has a node running (it links to localhost fproxy). It is not a problem, just a minor usability quirk IMHO. Very annoying to be asked to install a second browser. In this case, a third (using FF with IE as backup. And user is asked not to use IE). More FUD about history leaks. >>> FUD stands for Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. Unfortunately, the warnings >>> about browser history stealing are factually true. Perhaps there is an >>> argument for not naming such attacks if this intimidates people? Is the >>> problem with IE important? There are possibilities for working around it, >>> there has never been much enthusiasm for implementing them (even from ian >>> who tends to be usability oriented). >> Exactly. The user is fears the consequences of history leaks and is >> uncertain what he ought to do, and thereby doubts his security and >> privacy using Freenet. > > He knows what he needs to do - use a separate browser. Don't we make that > clear? It may be annoying but it is clear, no? It is indeed very clear, but as you say, also damn annoying. If possible, I think we should avoid annoying the user. >> IMHO we are exaggerating with this warning page. >> >> Dunno about IE? Is version 7/8 "secure enough"? > > The problem with IE is a deliberate policy decision to ignore MIME types on > most files. There is a registry key to fix it. I think it has
[freenet-dev] need graphic design help
I like it "boxed" (same width in Freenet and The Free Network), find it attached. Saludos, Caco_Patane On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 10:18 AM, Cl?ment wrote: > On Wednesday 17 June 2009 14:54:21 Matthew Toseland wrote: >> On Wednesday 17 June 2009 01:03:38 Cl?ment wrote: >> > On Wednesday 17 June 2009 01:18:28 Ian Clarke wrote: >> > > Ok, we need some help with the website, surely someone out there knows >> > > their way around Gimp, or Adobe Illustrator or something, or has a >> > > friend that does? >> > > >> > > Highest priorities: >> > > >> > > - Fix the logo on the website - it should be "Freenet", not "FreeNet" >> > >> > See attached (I sent the svg file, so everyone can edit it). >> >> Cool. We could actually do that in CSS, we should probably have hops as a >> png rather than SVG but that's easy... Would you mind exporting the logo as >> a transparent PNG of the correct dimensions, for the time being? >> > See attached. >> > > - Create a decent "Get Freenet" button, something vaguely like what >> > > they have on http://getfirefox.com/ or http://jquery.com/. ?Stuff like >> > > "Version" should be overlayed in text, not drawn on the image, so that >> > > it can be changed easily. >> > >> > I asked my girlfriend for that. It should be done by tomorrow. I can't >> > have any guarantee for the result of course :) >> > >> :) > > > ___ > Devl mailing list > Devl at freenetproject.org > http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl > -- And the void rumbles in Like an underground train Forever comes closer The world is in pain We all must be shown, we must realise That everyone changes and everything dies -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.12 GIT dpu s:-- a-- C++ UL+++ P-- L++ E--- W+++ N o-- K- w--- O M V- PS+++ PE-- Y+ PGP t+ 5-- X+ R+++ tv-- b++ DI-- D++ G++ e h+ r-- y** --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: freenet-logo.png Type: image/png Size: 4731 bytes Desc: not available URL: <https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/attachments/20090617/7ec3de5e/attachment.png>
[freenet-dev] need graphic design help
> Cool. We could actually do that in CSS, we should probably have hops as a png > rather than SVG but that's easy... Would you mind exporting the logo as a > transparent PNG of the correct dimensions, for the time being? Be aware of PNG because IE6 does not support well PNG transparency (is IE6 anyway...).
[freenet-dev] Recent work on web-pushing branch
In testing, it appears to stick on some pages/files (but maybe that's just freenet), and obviously it only updates the progress bar and not the rest of the information about a download. I'm guessing maybe failed blocks aren't being reported? I haven't seen any indication of any failed blocks in all my testing, which seems rather unlikely... As far as I can see, this is the approximate changelog (detailed comments below): Purpose: To use javascript and a single push connection per browser to update various pages in real time. Currently, just the progress page. In future, the connections and queue pages will also be refreshed dynamically, and this work will also form the basis of a solution for the slow inline image loading problem. Generated code: - Everything inside staticfiles/freenetjs/ is generated. The contents of this dir are deleted when running ant distclean. Generating it requires the GWT jars, which compile java to javascript. - The source code for this is currently in generator/js/. - The GWT jars must be in generator/js/lib/. Connection sharing: - One window makes a connection. - Every 100ms, followers process messages from the leader. - Keepalive every 1sec, failover after 3sec. - Failover assigns a new leader, arbitrated by /failover/ on the node (only allows failover from a request ID that was on the awaiting notifications list). HTMLNode generation: - Script formatting. - generateChildren() to render a node's children to a string buffer. - BaseUpdateableElement: base class of any updatable HTMLNode. Has the original ToadletContext, and an updateState() function to regenerate it. - ProgressBarElement: an updatable element for a progress bar. Refactored from fproxy. - Requests have a unique ID, available from ToadletContext, and put in a hidden value in PageMaker. Event tracking: - PushDataToadlet: fetch data from here. - PushNotificationToadlet: poll for updates from here. - PushKeepaliveToadlet: send keepalives here. - FailoverToadlet: arbitrates failover. - PushDataManager: Tracks elements that need updating, elements currently displayed, etc. - Client sends a keepalive every 10 seconds. Anything not received in 21 seconds is pruned. Refactoring: - Factor out FProxyFetchTracker.getFetcher(). Trivial: - 2x test commits. My comments about the code: Synchronization issues in PushDataManager: In the early commits this was inconsistent, are you happy with it now? Hidden input for the request ID (in PageMaker): is this valid HTML? IIRC it's not inside a form? Is separating data from notifications more efficient, even though it involves more round-trips? Re "+" in base64, you could just use a different encoding - the freenet nonstandard base64 for example. You can easily change the base64 code used in the java code to deal with this? OTOH you could avoid it completely with some changes to the wire format... In the cleaner thread: + for (Entry entry : new HashMap(isKeepaliveReceived).entrySet()) { ... + isKeepaliveReceived.put(entry.getKey(), false); Is this safe? You don't get ConcurrentModificationException's? Please use Ticker rather than java timers, because of thread pooling and thread priority issues. Would it make sense to randomise the failover interval slightly, so that one fails over and then the other two don't need to? You are assuming we will almost never reach MAX_MESSAGES, and in that case the output will just be a little out of date, this is probably reasonable. PushDataManager.awaitingNotifications only contains the "leaders", correct? But all events are broadcast to all leaders? (Javadocs for the variables would be nice) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] Good screenshots needed
Am Mittwoch, 17. Juni 2009 08:06:30 schrieb Daniel Cheng: > The bad thing is: our fproxy homepage don't have any picture. > > Those little ActiveLinks icons got disabled by default. Try using Firefox - at least for me it shows the activelinks. Wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- Unpolitisch sein hei?t politisch sein, ohne es zu merken. - Arne (http://draketo.de) --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: <https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/attachments/20090617/a5e15023/attachment.pgp>
Re: [freenet-dev] Asynchronous image loading
Ok, thats true. But the browser won't show an image till all the image above are shown, because it uses 2-3 connections to fetch the images sequentially. It may happen that a few image that fetches very slowly will hang all the others, even if they are completely present. sashee On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 4:46 PM, Daniel Cheng wrote: > On 17/6/2009 22:36, sashee wrote: >> this way freenet don't start all the >> fetching, just what is requested... When the page loads, freenet > > start fetching all the images, > > Did you look at your /config/fproxy page ? > There is an option called "Enable prefetching of inline images" .. > >> What you think? > > :) > ___ > Devl mailing list > Devl@freenetproject.org > http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl > ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] About the website
Am Mittwoch, 17. Juni 2009 05:26:25 schrieb Luke771: > Browse and publish 'freesites' (Freenet-hosted websites) This one sounds very nice to me. It gets people into the freenet-speech and at the same time tells them why we use it (what's the difference between a freesite and a normal website). Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- Unpolitisch sein hei?t politisch sein, ohne es zu merken. - Arne (http://draketo.de) --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: <https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/attachments/20090617/0478b276/attachment.pgp>
Re: [freenet-dev] First status report of my GSoC project
When I said pushng, I meant pushing, really. It is achieved via long polling, means that the browser makes a connection, and the server wait till data changes. If it does, then it replies, and the browser opens another connection. So a data change triggers it, and not just frequent polling. sashee On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 4:46 PM, Thomas Bruderer wrote: > sashee wrote: > > This sounds very promising :) and it is certainly a nice feature we all will > appreciate very much. > > However I have a rather technical questions out of curiousity, you talk > several times about "pushing" the content. > >> It is accomplished with ajax requests and javascript at the client side >> so pushing works and connection sharing also > > > Do you really push the content to the browser when the state changed, or > does the client just poll every 2 seconds as it does now for the complete > page? > > Comparing: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/AJAX vs > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet_(programming) > > Just curious :) since you use a toadlet I can imagine that both would be > viable solutions. > > Apophis > > ___ > Devl mailing list > Devl@freenetproject.org > http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl > ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] need graphic design help
> Hmmm... do we care? How many people use IE6 at the moment? And what exactly > happens on IE6 with 1-bit-transparent PNGs? At least here (latin america) there are tons of IE6 users: because hardware is expensive nobody installs vista, nobody buys original windows copies and don't get the updates. In webdevelopment usually is a requirement to support IE6 -again, in Latinamerica-. IE6 shows the transparent pixels as grey. There are some nasty hacks that can be done with JS and can be included using HTML conditional comments[1]. Saludos, Caco_Patane [1] http://www.quirksmode.org/css/condcom.html ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] usability testing
Matthew Toseland skrev: > On Wednesday 17 June 2009 09:54:18 Zero3 wrote: >> Matthew Toseland skrev: >>> On Tuesday 16 June 2009 21:53:09 Zero3 wrote: Matthew Toseland skrev: > On Sunday 14 June 2009 14:24:39 Zero3 wrote: >> a) On the front page of the website: A "What is Freenet?" teaser linking >> to the "What is Freenet?" page would be cool. Confusedly started to read >> the news item instead. (She should have spotted the "News" headline, but >> I agree on the teaser) > I think originally the reason for putting news on the main page was that > a lot of people check back on the website repeatedly, looking for new > stuff (i.e. news) ?: > > I agree we should have some basic explanation and link on the home page > though ... I am not quite sure whether just copying the first para from > "What is Freenet" as Dieppe has done is sufficient? > > "Freenet is free software which lets you publish and obtain information > on the Internet without fear of censorship. To achieve this freedom, the > network is entirely decentralized and publishers and consumers of > information are anonymous. Without anonymity there can never be true > freedom of speech, and without decentralization the network will be > vulnerable to attack." > > Followed by a link to learn more, a download link and news. > > Is this sufficiently comprehensible to newbies? I guess so, but it > doesn't really answer the question! I think it's quite good actually! I think "Without anonymity there can never be true freedom of speech") is a bit subjective though. >>> Alternatives? Clearly anonymity is a direct consequence of the overriding >>> goal of thwarting censorship. >> Ala "The anonymity of Freenet makes true freedom of speech possible" > > Freenet is free software which lets you anonymously share files, browse and > publish "freesites" (web sites accessible only through Freenet) and chat on > forums, without fear of censorship. Freenet is decentralised to make it less > vulnerable to attack. > > Or even: > > Freenet is free software which lets you anonymously share files, browse and > publish "freesites" (web sites accessible only through Freenet) and chat on > forums, without fear of censorship. Freenet is decentralised to make it less > vulnerable to attack, and if used in "darknet" mode, where users only connect > to their friends, is very difficult to detect. > > ??? Sounds better to me. >> Very annoying to be asked to install a second >> browser. In this case, a third (using FF with IE as backup. And user is >> asked not to use IE). More FUD about history leaks. > FUD stands for Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. Unfortunately, the warnings > about browser history stealing are factually true. Perhaps there is an > argument for not naming such attacks if this intimidates people? Is the > problem with IE important? There are possibilities for working around it, > there has never been much enthusiasm for implementing them (even from ian > who tends to be usability oriented). Exactly. The user is fears the consequences of history leaks and is uncertain what he ought to do, and thereby doubts his security and privacy using Freenet. >>> He knows what he needs to do - use a separate browser. Don't we make that >>> clear? It may be annoying but it is clear, no? >> It is indeed very clear, but as you say, also damn annoying. If >> possible, I think we should avoid annoying the user. > > Well, any suggestions you may have... afaics the best option on windows is to > run Chrome in incognito mode, and tell the wizard not to show the warning. > But in that case we need to warn the user if they ever use another browser - > and we can't tell the difference between Chrome in incognito mode and Chrome > not in incognito mode, so I think we should display the warning anyway, we > just need to rewrite it a bit for the case where we are using Chrome in > incognito mode: > > "You must always use a browser with incognito mode for Freenet! > > You are currently using Freenet through Chrome in incognito mode. This should > be safe. You should always access Freenet using Chrome in incognito mode, or > through a browser you do not using for normal web browsing. The Browse > Freenet link on the start menu should use Chrome in incognito mode, and so > should be safe. Most browsers will work well with Freenet, except for > Internet Explorer. > > Click here to continue." > > ??? I don't think we should display a warning when the user is browsing in incognito mode. When the user is not (or we don't know for sure), we could do it. - Zero3 ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Asynchronous image loading
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 15:36:26 sashee wrote: > Hello folks! > > Some days ago, I've talked with nextgens about toadlet > continuations(it's asynchronous request processing), and he had a > point that when the user opens a site with lots of images, then it > needs many connections open for a long time, and it spawns many > threads at serverside, which is resource demanding and some OSes don't > allow. The browser has a maximum connection limit to the site, but the > user can overwrite it. But at the default, firefox opens only 2-3 > connections to fetch the images, this way freenet don't start all the > fetching, just what is requested. So one problem is that if a user > alters the browser's config, then it will result many threads, if not, > then freenet can't download all the content simultanously. > I think with pushing, I'm working on, can be a solution for both > problems. When the page loads, freenet start fetching all the images, > and the browser gets the progress with 1 permanent connection. There > can be an image eg. "Image is loading...10%" and after some progress > change to 20% and so on, and when finishes downloading, it shows or > says eg. "Image finished loading, click to display". If it's done, we > don't need continuations anymore. Ofc it would need javascript to be > enabled. IMHO it should just replace the progress image with the final image contents, i.e. change the link to point to the image now that we know it's been fetched (use some caching to avoid stalling, but mostly it should load fast). > > What you think? Apart from that, it sounds like a good solution. > > sashee signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] need graphic design help
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 14:27:28 Caco Patane wrote: > > Cool. We could actually do that in CSS, we should probably have hops as a > > png rather than SVG but that's easy... Would you mind exporting the logo as > > a transparent PNG of the correct dimensions, for the time being? > > Be aware of PNG because IE6 does not support well PNG transparency (is > IE6 anyway...). Hmmm... do we care? How many people use IE6 at the moment? And what exactly happens on IE6 with 1-bit-transparent PNGs? signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] The new blue gradient website background
Just a quick notes: Blue Gradient background won't work, because: -- BLUE have low contrast with the black text -- our rabbit logo is blue, even lower contrast -- the website ian suggested ( getfirefox/ jquery) and other well-design webpage does NOT use gradient as _text_ background AT ALL..
Re: [freenet-dev] First status report of my GSoC project
sashee wrote: This sounds very promising :) and it is certainly a nice feature we all will appreciate very much. However I have a rather technical questions out of curiousity, you talk several times about "pushing" the content. It is accomplished with ajax requests and javascript at the client side so pushing works and connection sharing also Do you really push the content to the browser when the state changed, or does the client just poll every 2 seconds as it does now for the complete page? Comparing: http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/AJAX vs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comet_(programming) Just curious :) since you use a toadlet I can imagine that both would be viable solutions. Apophis smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Asynchronous image loading
On 17/6/2009 22:36, sashee wrote: > this way freenet don't start all the > fetching, just what is requested... When the page loads, freenet > start fetching all the images, Did you look at your /config/fproxy page ? There is an option called "Enable prefetching of inline images" .. > What you think? :) ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] Asynchronous image loading
Hello folks! Some days ago, I've talked with nextgens about toadlet continuations(it's asynchronous request processing), and he had a point that when the user opens a site with lots of images, then it needs many connections open for a long time, and it spawns many threads at serverside, which is resource demanding and some OSes don't allow. The browser has a maximum connection limit to the site, but the user can overwrite it. But at the default, firefox opens only 2-3 connections to fetch the images, this way freenet don't start all the fetching, just what is requested. So one problem is that if a user alters the browser's config, then it will result many threads, if not, then freenet can't download all the content simultanously. I think with pushing, I'm working on, can be a solution for both problems. When the page loads, freenet start fetching all the images, and the browser gets the progress with 1 permanent connection. There can be an image eg. "Image is loading...10%" and after some progress change to 20% and so on, and when finishes downloading, it shows or says eg. "Image finished loading, click to display". If it's done, we don't need continuations anymore. Ofc it would need javascript to be enabled. What you think? sashee ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] First status report of my GSoC project
On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 3:09 PM, Matthew Toseland wrote: > On Wednesday 17 June 2009 13:27:10 sashee wrote: >> Hello everybody! >> >> This is time for my first status report, because mid-term evals are >> approaching. >> >> Some introduction, what I'm doing exactly. My project is to introduce >> web pushing to the web interface. That actually means, that the data >> displayed are refreshed automatically, without the need to refresh the >> whole page. It is accomplished with ajax requests and javascript at >> the client side, and some toadlets at the serverside. Toad had a >> concern about the number of opened connections, so a connection >> sharing mechanism is also a requirement. This connection sharing >> ensures that only 1 permanent connection is used per browser, no >> matter how many tabs are open. Another requirement is that the web >> interface must be usable when javascript is disabled(but pushing wont >> work that way) >> >> About my current status:I've created the basic infrastructure both >> server and client side, so pushing works and connection sharing also. > > Great! You have tested this? Yes, you can test it too, by going to the status page with 2 browser tabs. You will see the numbers counting on both of them. Then close the one that you opened earlier(that holds the connection) and see the other tab. It should stop for 3-4 seconds(in that time, it realises, that there is no open connection, and opens a new one), and will continue counting. > >> Currently only the progress bar on the progress page is pushed, but it >> nicely visualize the feature. The client side is written in java, and >> transformed to javascript with the help of the GWT compiler. > > Very nice. >> >> How to check the current status: >> Pull and checkout to the web-pushing branch, then build the project. >> Please don't distclean, because it will delete the generated >> javascript, and you won't be able to generate it yourself atm. Then >> start Freenet, and open a browser with it. You have to enable >> javascript both on your browser and on Freenet. Now you should browse >> Freenet, and see the progress bar is updating, and when the loading is >> ready, you get the page you just fetched. I've put some tester >> elements at the status page, they are increased by 1 every second. >> They help to see bugs, as they use pushing heavily. >> >> I've tested it at Firefox both windows and linux, and IE7. They worked >> well, although testing on other systems would be helpful. > > Chrome compatibility is important. The current progress bar javascript > doesn't work on Chrome, we have to detect AppleWebKit (also used for Safari, > default browser on OS/X) and fall back to a refresh at the moment. Chrome is > important because it is the only currently shipping browser to have an > incognito mode; hence, on Windows, if Chrome is installed, we use it. > Hopefully GWT solves the compatibility issues the hand-crafted code has, but > we need to verify this. I've tried Chrome and it worked like the others. >> >> Please don't use pushing, just for testing and reviewing. It has some >> major bug that needs to be addressed. But feedback is always >> appreciated. >> >> What's next? >> As I've 3 weeks before mid term eval, I'll fix the known bugs and >> optimize some processes, and it also needs be documented and >> commented. The pushing can also be used for the images' loading, but >> I'll write a separate email about that. > > That would be very helpful yes, probably more important than the original > project of making the various status pages dynamically update. > > Apologies for not reviewing/testing your code so far, have been busy with the > release. I'm not here from the 20th to the 27th so I will try to review all > recent changes, especially for my SoC students, and test the code where > possible. No problem, I've had work to do anyway. >> >> sashee > ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] need graphic design help
I like it "boxed" (same width in Freenet and The Free Network), find it attached. Saludos, Caco_Patane On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 10:18 AM, Clément wrote: > On Wednesday 17 June 2009 14:54:21 Matthew Toseland wrote: >> On Wednesday 17 June 2009 01:03:38 Clément wrote: >> > On Wednesday 17 June 2009 01:18:28 Ian Clarke wrote: >> > > Ok, we need some help with the website, surely someone out there knows >> > > their way around Gimp, or Adobe Illustrator or something, or has a >> > > friend that does? >> > > >> > > Highest priorities: >> > > >> > > - Fix the logo on the website - it should be "Freenet", not "FreeNet" >> > >> > See attached (I sent the svg file, so everyone can edit it). >> >> Cool. We could actually do that in CSS, we should probably have hops as a >> png rather than SVG but that's easy... Would you mind exporting the logo as >> a transparent PNG of the correct dimensions, for the time being? >> > See attached. >> > > - Create a decent "Get Freenet" button, something vaguely like what >> > > they have on http://getfirefox.com/ or http://jquery.com/. Stuff like >> > > "Version" should be overlayed in text, not drawn on the image, so that >> > > it can be changed easily. >> > >> > I asked my girlfriend for that. It should be done by tomorrow. I can't >> > have any guarantee for the result of course :) >> > >> :) > > > ___ > Devl mailing list > Devl@freenetproject.org > http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl > -- And the void rumbles in Like an underground train Forever comes closer The world is in pain We all must be shown, we must realise That everyone changes and everything dies -BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK- Version: 3.12 GIT dpu s:-- a-- C++ UL+++ P-- L++ E--- W+++ N o-- K- w--- O M V- PS+++ PE-- Y+ PGP t+ 5-- X+ R+++ tv-- b++ DI-- D++ G++ e h+ r-- y** --END GEEK CODE BLOCK-- <>___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] need graphic design help
> Cool. We could actually do that in CSS, we should probably have hops as a png > rather than SVG but that's easy... Would you mind exporting the logo as a > transparent PNG of the correct dimensions, for the time being? Be aware of PNG because IE6 does not support well PNG transparency (is IE6 anyway...). ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] need graphic design help
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 14:54:21 Matthew Toseland wrote: > On Wednesday 17 June 2009 01:03:38 Clément wrote: > > On Wednesday 17 June 2009 01:18:28 Ian Clarke wrote: > > > Ok, we need some help with the website, surely someone out there knows > > > their way around Gimp, or Adobe Illustrator or something, or has a > > > friend that does? > > > > > > Highest priorities: > > > > > > - Fix the logo on the website - it should be "Freenet", not "FreeNet" > > > > See attached (I sent the svg file, so everyone can edit it). > > Cool. We could actually do that in CSS, we should probably have hops as a > png rather than SVG but that's easy... Would you mind exporting the logo as > a transparent PNG of the correct dimensions, for the time being? > See attached. > > > - Create a decent "Get Freenet" button, something vaguely like what > > > they have on http://getfirefox.com/ or http://jquery.com/. Stuff like > > > "Version" should be overlayed in text, not drawn on the image, so that > > > it can be changed easily. > > > > I asked my girlfriend for that. It should be done by tomorrow. I can't > > have any guarantee for the result of course :) > > > :) <>___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] First status report of my GSoC project
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 13:27:10 sashee wrote: > Hello everybody! > > This is time for my first status report, because mid-term evals are > approaching. > > Some introduction, what I'm doing exactly. My project is to introduce > web pushing to the web interface. That actually means, that the data > displayed are refreshed automatically, without the need to refresh the > whole page. It is accomplished with ajax requests and javascript at > the client side, and some toadlets at the serverside. Toad had a > concern about the number of opened connections, so a connection > sharing mechanism is also a requirement. This connection sharing > ensures that only 1 permanent connection is used per browser, no > matter how many tabs are open. Another requirement is that the web > interface must be usable when javascript is disabled(but pushing wont > work that way) > > About my current status:I've created the basic infrastructure both > server and client side, so pushing works and connection sharing also. Great! You have tested this? > Currently only the progress bar on the progress page is pushed, but it > nicely visualize the feature. The client side is written in java, and > transformed to javascript with the help of the GWT compiler. Very nice. > > How to check the current status: > Pull and checkout to the web-pushing branch, then build the project. > Please don't distclean, because it will delete the generated > javascript, and you won't be able to generate it yourself atm. Then > start Freenet, and open a browser with it. You have to enable > javascript both on your browser and on Freenet. Now you should browse > Freenet, and see the progress bar is updating, and when the loading is > ready, you get the page you just fetched. I've put some tester > elements at the status page, they are increased by 1 every second. > They help to see bugs, as they use pushing heavily. > > I've tested it at Firefox both windows and linux, and IE7. They worked > well, although testing on other systems would be helpful. Chrome compatibility is important. The current progress bar javascript doesn't work on Chrome, we have to detect AppleWebKit (also used for Safari, default browser on OS/X) and fall back to a refresh at the moment. Chrome is important because it is the only currently shipping browser to have an incognito mode; hence, on Windows, if Chrome is installed, we use it. Hopefully GWT solves the compatibility issues the hand-crafted code has, but we need to verify this. > > Please don't use pushing, just for testing and reviewing. It has some > major bug that needs to be addressed. But feedback is always > appreciated. > > What's next? > As I've 3 weeks before mid term eval, I'll fix the known bugs and > optimize some processes, and it also needs be documented and > commented. The pushing can also be used for the images' loading, but > I'll write a separate email about that. That would be very helpful yes, probably more important than the original project of making the various status pages dynamically update. Apologies for not reviewing/testing your code so far, have been busy with the release. I'm not here from the 20th to the 27th so I will try to review all recent changes, especially for my SoC students, and test the code where possible. > > sashee signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Good screenshots needed
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 08:17:56 Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > Am Mittwoch, 17. Juni 2009 08:06:30 schrieb Daniel Cheng: > > The bad thing is: our fproxy homepage don't have any picture. > > > > Those little ActiveLinks icons got disabled by default. > > Try using Firefox - at least for me it shows the activelinks. Only because they're enabled in your config. They are off by default. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Good screenshots needed
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 07:06:30 Daniel Cheng wrote: > On Wed, Jun 17, 2009 at 10:16 AM, Ian Clarke wrote: > > I've been doing quite a bit of work in my day job with people who have > > done a vast amount of testing of the effectiveness of different > > website designs. > > > > If I were to condense what I've learned into a single caveman > > sentence, it would be: > > > > "Big dense blocks of text: BAD, Pictures: GOOD" > > The bad thing is: our fproxy homepage don't have any picture. > > Those little ActiveLinks icons got disabled by default. Well, hopefully people's default instinct to search will be less of a problem in future versions because we'll have a non-schizophrenic search index? > > > Screenshots are important, when I want to get a sense of a piece of > > software one of the first things I look for is a screenshot. > > > > Ian. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Good screenshots needed
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 03:16:18 Ian Clarke wrote: > I've been doing quite a bit of work in my day job with people who have > done a vast amount of testing of the effectiveness of different > website designs. > > If I were to condense what I've learned into a single caveman > sentence, it would be: > > "Big dense blocks of text: BAD, Pictures: GOOD" > > Screenshots are important, when I want to get a sense of a piece of > software one of the first things I look for is a screenshot. Yes but screenshots with no visible news, and which aren't updated for years? Doesn't that put off the significant number of people who've tried Freenet before and come back on a slashdot to see if it's improved? signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] need graphic design help
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 01:19:23 Gerard Krol wrote: > Clément wrote: > > On Wednesday 17 June 2009 01:18:28 Ian Clarke wrote: > > > >> Ok, we need some help with the website, surely someone out there knows > >> their way around Gimp, or Adobe Illustrator or something, or has a > >> friend that does? > >> > >> Highest priorities: > >> > >> - Fix the logo on the website - it should be "Freenet", not "FreeNet" > >> > >> > > See attached (I sent the svg file, so everyone can edit it). > > > I made the text bold and move the rabbit behind it. It now looks vaguely > familiar. > I don't hope I copied some other well known logo. > > Let me know what you think! IMHO Dieppe's version is better, but what we really need is a button for downloading it... Something that could live on the main page directly under the what is freenet section, above the news (or screenshots). Ian suggests something like the firefox download icon - that involves their project symbol and a gradient, so it's pretty straightforward, and then we can put easily edited text on top via CSS. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] need graphic design help
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 01:03:38 Clément wrote: > On Wednesday 17 June 2009 01:18:28 Ian Clarke wrote: > > Ok, we need some help with the website, surely someone out there knows > > their way around Gimp, or Adobe Illustrator or something, or has a > > friend that does? > > > > Highest priorities: > > > > - Fix the logo on the website - it should be "Freenet", not "FreeNet" > > > See attached (I sent the svg file, so everyone can edit it). Cool. We could actually do that in CSS, we should probably have hops as a png rather than SVG but that's easy... Would you mind exporting the logo as a transparent PNG of the correct dimensions, for the time being? > > - Create a decent "Get Freenet" button, something vaguely like what > > they have on http://getfirefox.com/ or http://jquery.com/. Stuff like > > "Version" should be overlayed in text, not drawn on the image, so that > > it can be changed easily. > > > I asked my girlfriend for that. It should be done by tomorrow. I can't have > any guarantee for the result of course :) :) signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] Beta of Windows tray icon + update.cmd updating
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 02:45:19 Juiceman wrote: > On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 7:53 PM, Matthew > Toseland wrote: > > On Wednesday 17 June 2009 00:48:44 Juiceman wrote: > >> On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 7:16 PM, Matthew > >> Toseland wrote: > >> > On Tuesday 16 June 2009 23:16:58 Zero3 wrote: > >> >> I've successfully (I think?) branched the master branch of > >> >> wininstaller-staging at github to a new beta branch. This branch now > >> >> contains the upcoming Windows tray icon. > >> >> > >> >> Please feel free to test. Even small fixes like spelling and grammar is > >> >> more than welcome (because mine suck ;)). > >> >> > >> >> Source: http://github.com/freenet/wininstaller-staging/tree/beta > >> >> Binary: http://privat.zero3.dk/FreenetInstaller_Beta.exe (old jars, > >> >> seednodes, translations and so on. Not meant for anything but testing) > >> > > >> > Cool! > >> >> > >> >> The update.cmd script will soon need to support the updating of various > >> >> helper executables, most importantly freenetlauncher.exe, but if > >> >> possible, all of them. > >> > > >> > Ok. > >> >> > >> >> (Are these on the website somewhere yet Matthew? Along with a plan of > >> >> how they are kept up-to-date...) > >> >> > >> >> If update.cmd tries to update bin\freenettray.exe, it should first do > >> >> something like: > >> >> > >> >> taskkill /IM freenettray.exe > >> >> if not errorlevel 1 > >> >> > >> >> (... as we can't update running Windows executables) > >> > > >> > https://checksums.freenetproject.org/cc/[filename] > >> > for filename in: > >> > wrapper-windows-x86-32.exe wrapper-windows-x86-32.dll start.exe stop.exe > >> > freenetlauncher.exe > >> > >> It would be great if we could see the directory listing when we access > >> https://checksums.freenetproject.org/cc/ is this possible? > >> > >> How do you suggest we check for newer versions of the files? > >> Downloading them all and then comparing is a waste of bandwidth... I > >> could compare the .sha1 of the files if those exist. That would be > >> minuscule bandwidth. > >> > >> I propose to start checking freenet-ext.jar this way, saving almost 4mb > >> per run. > > > > Yes, that is exactly how it is supposed to work. Furthermore, checking the > > .sha1 over HTTPS is a good thing in terms of security. So please go for it! > > I can't tell for sure because directory listing is denied on that > folder of the website, but I don't think the .sha1 files for the > downloads are in https://checksums.freenetproject.org/cc/ Hmmm, that's wierd. Get the sha1 from /latest/ then. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
Re: [freenet-dev] usability testing
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 09:54:18 Zero3 wrote: > Matthew Toseland skrev: > > On Tuesday 16 June 2009 21:53:09 Zero3 wrote: > >> Matthew Toseland skrev: > >>> On Sunday 14 June 2009 14:24:39 Zero3 wrote: > a) On the front page of the website: A "What is Freenet?" teaser linking > to the "What is Freenet?" page would be cool. Confusedly started to read > the news item instead. (She should have spotted the "News" headline, but > I agree on the teaser) > >>> I think originally the reason for putting news on the main page was that > >>> a lot of people check back on the website repeatedly, looking for new > >>> stuff (i.e. news) ?: > >>> > >>> I agree we should have some basic explanation and link on the home page > >>> though ... I am not quite sure whether just copying the first para from > >>> "What is Freenet" as Dieppe has done is sufficient? > >>> > >>> "Freenet is free software which lets you publish and obtain information > >>> on the Internet without fear of censorship. To achieve this freedom, the > >>> network is entirely decentralized and publishers and consumers of > >>> information are anonymous. Without anonymity there can never be true > >>> freedom of speech, and without decentralization the network will be > >>> vulnerable to attack." > >>> > >>> Followed by a link to learn more, a download link and news. > >>> > >>> Is this sufficiently comprehensible to newbies? I guess so, but it > >>> doesn't really answer the question! > >> I think it's quite good actually! I think "Without anonymity there can > >> never be true freedom of speech") is a bit subjective though. > > > > Alternatives? Clearly anonymity is a direct consequence of the overriding > > goal of thwarting censorship. > > Ala "The anonymity of Freenet makes true freedom of speech possible" Freenet is free software which lets you anonymously share files, browse and publish "freesites" (web sites accessible only through Freenet) and chat on forums, without fear of censorship. Freenet is decentralised to make it less vulnerable to attack. Or even: Freenet is free software which lets you anonymously share files, browse and publish "freesites" (web sites accessible only through Freenet) and chat on forums, without fear of censorship. Freenet is decentralised to make it less vulnerable to attack, and if used in "darknet" mode, where users only connect to their friends, is very difficult to detect. ??? > > b) FUD alert on the "What is Freenet?" page: > > "Freenet does not let the user control what is stored in the data store. > [...] Files in the data store are encrypted to reduce the likelihood of > prosecution by persons wishing to censor Freenet content." > > (Agreed. We are scaring some people away before they even reach the > download page. I don't think we should hide the facts, but rather give a > reasoned explanation for the ways Freenet do things.) > >>> I guess there is a language issue here yeah... > >>> > >>> How about this? (deployed): > >>> > >>> 'Users contribute to the network by giving bandwidth and a portion of > >>> their hard drive (called the "data store") for storing files. Files are > >>> automatically kept or deleted depending on how popular they are, with the > >>> least popular being discarded to make way for newer or more popular > >>> content. Files are encrypted, so generally the user cannot easily > >>> discover what is in his datastore, and hopefully can't be held > >>> accountable for it.' > >> Much better, yeah. > >> > c) On the "Philosophy" page: More focus on what Freenet actually *can > do* for citizens living under censorship and the like. > >>> Isn't that what "What is Freenet?" is about? > >> Well, yeah, except it doesn't really say anything about it on that page > >> either. > > > > It does now IMHO. Have you read the current version? > > Yeah, it does mention what you can do with Freenet in general. Dunno. > > e) On the "Download page": No idea what a "node reference" is. (Could be > rephrased or explained better) > >>> That's why it's in quotes, and the "Add a friend" page does explain it. > >>> Do you have any suggestion as to how to improve the wording? > >> Perhaps add a paranthesis explaining the term? > > > > Is it a problem? If he clicks the link to Add a Friend it will explain it > > to him? > > Given that he has a node running (it links to localhost fproxy). It is > not a problem, just a minor usability quirk IMHO. Not sure what can be done here. I mean if you actually open the page it's obvious what a noderef is. > > Very annoying to be asked to install a second > browser. In this case, a third (using FF with IE as backup. And user is > asked not to use IE). More FUD about history leaks. > >>> FUD stands for Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. Unfortunately, the warnings > >>> about browser history stealing are factually true. Perhaps there
[freenet-dev] First status report of my GSoC project
Hello everybody! This is time for my first status report, because mid-term evals are approaching. Some introduction, what I'm doing exactly. My project is to introduce web pushing to the web interface. That actually means, that the data displayed are refreshed automatically, without the need to refresh the whole page. It is accomplished with ajax requests and javascript at the client side, and some toadlets at the serverside. Toad had a concern about the number of opened connections, so a connection sharing mechanism is also a requirement. This connection sharing ensures that only 1 permanent connection is used per browser, no matter how many tabs are open. Another requirement is that the web interface must be usable when javascript is disabled(but pushing wont work that way) About my current status:I've created the basic infrastructure both server and client side, so pushing works and connection sharing also. Currently only the progress bar on the progress page is pushed, but it nicely visualize the feature. The client side is written in java, and transformed to javascript with the help of the GWT compiler. How to check the current status: Pull and checkout to the web-pushing branch, then build the project. Please don't distclean, because it will delete the generated javascript, and you won't be able to generate it yourself atm. Then start Freenet, and open a browser with it. You have to enable javascript both on your browser and on Freenet. Now you should browse Freenet, and see the progress bar is updating, and when the loading is ready, you get the page you just fetched. I've put some tester elements at the status page, they are increased by 1 every second. They help to see bugs, as they use pushing heavily. I've tested it at Firefox both windows and linux, and IE7. They worked well, although testing on other systems would be helpful. Please don't use pushing, just for testing and reviewing. It has some major bug that needs to be addressed. But feedback is always appreciated. What's next? As I've 3 weeks before mid term eval, I'll fix the known bugs and optimize some processes, and it also needs be documented and commented. The pushing can also be used for the images' loading, but I'll write a separate email about that. sashee ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] About the website
Evan Daniel wrote: > On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 1:52 PM, Matthew > Toseland wrote: > >> On Tuesday 16 June 2009 03:18:47 Evan Daniel wrote: >> >>> On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Matthew >>> Toseland wrote: >>> I have done the first phase of deploying this, after discussions with Ian. We use the new background and the new logo, but we waste a lot of space on the top "line" with the banner, and we don't use the horizontal menu yet as we need to implement the sub-menus. Also I have rewritten the What is Freenet? page with some input from Ian. >>> Looking at the new version, it feels like it's targetted to an >>> academic who is interested in the theory of anonymous networks. IMHO, >>> >>> >> Okay. The homepage now says: >> ' Freenet is free software which lets you anonymously share files, browse >> and publish web sites, and chat on forums, without fear > I think that's better. > > I might change "browse and publish web sites ("freesites")" to > Browse and publish 'freesites' (Freenet-hosted websites)
[freenet-dev] About the website
Matthew Toseland wrote: > On Tuesday 16 June 2009 03:18:47 Evan Daniel wrote: > >> On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 7:14 PM, Matthew >> Toseland wrote: >> >>> I have done the first phase of deploying this, after discussions with Ian. >>> We use the new background and the new logo, but we waste a lot of space on >>> the top "line" with the banner, and we don't use the horizontal menu yet as >>> we need to implement the sub-menus. Also I have rewritten the What is >>> Freenet? page with some input from Ian. >>> >> Looking at the new version, it feels like it's targetted to an >> >> > > Okay. The homepage now says: > "Freenet has been downloaded by over 2 million users " Should be "has been downloaded over 2 million times". After all, I downloaded it at least 15 or 20 times...
Re: [freenet-dev] About the website
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 07:40:18 Arne Babenhauserheide wrote: > Am Mittwoch, 17. Juni 2009 05:26:25 schrieb Luke771: > > Browse and publish 'freesites' (Freenet-hosted websites) > > This one sounds very nice to me. It gets people into the freenet-speech and > at > the same time tells them why we use it (what's the difference between a > freesite and a normal website). Currently it is: Freenet is free software which lets you anonymously share files, browse and publish "freesites" (web sites accessible only through Freenet) and chat on forums, without fear of censorship. Users are anonymous, and Freenet is entirely decentralised. Without anonymity there can never be true freedom of speech, and without decentralisation the network would be vulnerable to attack. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] The new blue gradient website background
Am Mittwoch, 17. Juni 2009 02:06:06 schrieb Daniel Cheng: > Blue Gradient background won't work, because: But it looked very nice to me, and I could read the text quite well... --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- - singing a part of the history of free software - http://infinite-hands.draketo.de -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 198 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: <https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/attachments/20090617/675faedf/attachment.pgp>
[freenet-dev] The new blue gradient website background
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 02:06:06 Daniel Cheng wrote: > Just a quick notes: > > Blue Gradient background won't work, because: > > -- BLUE have low contrast with the black text > I disagree here : black text on light blue have a good contrast. > -- our rabbit logo is blue, even lower contrast > Agreed. > -- the website ian suggested ( getfirefox/ jquery) > and other well-design webpage does NOT > use gradient as _text_ background AT ALL.. Agreed. We should fine a better background (I showed it to my girlfriend who said it looks 80s...). Globally, we could use this to find good colours : http://colorschemedesigner.com/ We already have one colour fixed (rabbit blue (0077bf)). What looks good with that is orange, but a orange background looks ugly. We could have a black background, but white on black is difficult to read. > ___ > Devl mailing list > Devl at freenetproject.org > http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] need graphic design help
Cl?ment wrote: > On Wednesday 17 June 2009 01:18:28 Ian Clarke wrote: > >> Ok, we need some help with the website, surely someone out there knows >> their way around Gimp, or Adobe Illustrator or something, or has a >> friend that does? >> >> Highest priorities: >> >> - Fix the logo on the website - it should be "Freenet", not "FreeNet" >> >> > See attached (I sent the svg file, so everyone can edit it). > I made the text bold and move the rabbit behind it. It now looks vaguely familiar. I don't hope I copied some other well known logo. Let me know what you think! - Gerard -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: freenet_logo.svg Type: image/svg+xml Size: 7191 bytes Desc: not available URL: <https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/attachments/20090617/0a39a76b/attachment.svg>
[freenet-dev] need graphic design help
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 01:18:28 Ian Clarke wrote: > Ok, we need some help with the website, surely someone out there knows > their way around Gimp, or Adobe Illustrator or something, or has a > friend that does? > > Highest priorities: > > - Fix the logo on the website - it should be "Freenet", not "FreeNet" > See attached (I sent the svg file, so everyone can edit it). > - Create a decent "Get Freenet" button, something vaguely like what > they have on http://getfirefox.com/ or http://jquery.com/. Stuff like > "Version" should be overlayed in text, not drawn on the image, so that > it can be changed easily. > I asked my girlfriend for that. It should be done by tomorrow. I can't have any guarantee for the result of course :) > Any takers? > > Ian. -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: banner.svg Type: image/svg+xml Size: 6062 bytes Desc: not available URL: <https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/attachments/20090617/4b5e6e6b/attachment.svg>
[freenet-dev] website feedback
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 00:32:05 Matthew Toseland wrote: > On Tuesday 16 June 2009 22:38:26 Ian Clarke wrote: > > Some notes on the website from a friend of mine who does usability work: > > > > i'd remove the cup image from the store because it becomes the most > > prominent element on the page next to the logo itself. > > Agreed, current plan is to make the menu horizontal, in which case there > would be nowhere to put it and it would just become a menu item (as > text)... imho the current design with the logo and the vertical menu wastes > a lot of space. > > > I'd make the what is freenet bolder and at the top. > > maybe even pull it out as a quote > > FREENET -- share, publish and browse files anonymously > > Maybe lose the "files" ? "Freenet: Share, chat and browse anonymously" ? > > Would replace the current "What is Freenet?", be the top thing below the > title / menu bar.. > > To avoid confusion: "Share, chat and browse anonymously on the Free > Network" ?? > > That's what I've put up at the moment, and made it a for more > emphasis. > > > that's all I need to know to know if I am on the right page or not. > > then you can have the expanded "what is freenet" section. > > i think the quote is great but needs to go on an about page or something > > because it's the reason "behind" the software not the software itself. > > Done. > > > the other thing i'd do is make a very prominent download button with a > > version or something. > > let me find a good example of what i mean > > http://jquery.com/ > > it's easy to find the download and i know without downloading if I am > > already current > > Okay, I've put up the button the students made, but we really need a better > one, preferably with the version number and in an easy to edit form so we > can update the version as needed (give us the original gimp files). Anyone > able to improve on the current button? The drop-shadow is excessive, Ian > would prefer something more firefoxy. > I asked my girlfriend to do it. She's playing with gimp since about 2 months, and she made some cute things. Dunno if it will fit our needs, but worth the try. Btw, we didn't ship the button in the version we gave to our prof, I just made it with inkscape in 10 minutes, and its only purpose was to present where the button should be (a link looked quite bad...). > Or should we have the version separately, as on his page below? > > > the last thing i'd mention is that you should fix the maximum width of > > the text on the page. when you expand it too far then it becomes > > unreadable > > Not sure I understand this one. It seems to scale fine on Firefox for me. > It scales fine, but we should have a max size : when a paragraph is too large, it doesn't help the readability (?). Well, that's how I understand it. > > i still very much like your logo, i wish that it played a more > > prominent roll somehow. > > Thanks Clement/Dieppe and the students for that one. IMHO there should be > something next to it, the obvious thing is a horizontal menu. > > > the site does look more "clean" than it did which is great i just > > think that at this point you need to start adding content back in and > > starting to organize whats most important to the user. > > IMHO we haven't lost any content. > > > take this for example > > http://skitch.com/heavysixer/bwcxd/firefox > > this is for the bank ally i think they have a similar structure to > > freenet in terms of getting people to understand the product and move > > to the next step. > > i've overlaid what i'd do if I were designing the site for you on top > > of what they have now. > > it seems more expressive and clear to me but not sure if that's what you > > think ignore my horrible grammar too > > it's a sketch! > > Interesting... > > You would keep the vertical menu - doesn't a horizontal one save space and > fit better with the logo positioning? > > Then replace the News section with screenshots ... anyone have any opinions > about this? Clearly we would need to mention the version on or near the Get > Freenet button ... Screenshots might help in terms of selling Freenet, > although it has to look good in that case ... and we'd need the News page > to maybe be more prominent, ideally with an RSS feed... I still think we should have news on the homepage : when I go on a site and I don't see any news, it give me the feelings that the project is almost dead. Maybe we could do like many sites : just put the title of the news linking to the body of the news, maybe in a list in the right ?
Re: [freenet-dev] usability testing
Matthew Toseland skrev: > On Tuesday 16 June 2009 21:53:09 Zero3 wrote: >> Matthew Toseland skrev: >>> On Sunday 14 June 2009 14:24:39 Zero3 wrote: a) On the front page of the website: A "What is Freenet?" teaser linking to the "What is Freenet?" page would be cool. Confusedly started to read the news item instead. (She should have spotted the "News" headline, but I agree on the teaser) >>> I think originally the reason for putting news on the main page was that a >>> lot of people check back on the website repeatedly, looking for new stuff >>> (i.e. news) ?: >>> >>> I agree we should have some basic explanation and link on the home page >>> though ... I am not quite sure whether just copying the first para from >>> "What is Freenet" as Dieppe has done is sufficient? >>> >>> "Freenet is free software which lets you publish and obtain information on >>> the Internet without fear of censorship. To achieve this freedom, the >>> network is entirely decentralized and publishers and consumers of >>> information are anonymous. Without anonymity there can never be true >>> freedom of speech, and without decentralization the network will be >>> vulnerable to attack." >>> >>> Followed by a link to learn more, a download link and news. >>> >>> Is this sufficiently comprehensible to newbies? I guess so, but it doesn't >>> really answer the question! >> I think it's quite good actually! I think "Without anonymity there can >> never be true freedom of speech") is a bit subjective though. > > Alternatives? Clearly anonymity is a direct consequence of the overriding > goal of thwarting censorship. Ala "The anonymity of Freenet makes true freedom of speech possible" b) FUD alert on the "What is Freenet?" page: "Freenet does not let the user control what is stored in the data store. [...] Files in the data store are encrypted to reduce the likelihood of prosecution by persons wishing to censor Freenet content." (Agreed. We are scaring some people away before they even reach the download page. I don't think we should hide the facts, but rather give a reasoned explanation for the ways Freenet do things.) >>> I guess there is a language issue here yeah... >>> >>> How about this? (deployed): >>> >>> 'Users contribute to the network by giving bandwidth and a portion of their >>> hard drive (called the "data store") for storing files. Files are >>> automatically kept or deleted depending on how popular they are, with the >>> least popular being discarded to make way for newer or more popular >>> content. Files are encrypted, so generally the user cannot easily discover >>> what is in his datastore, and hopefully can't be held accountable for it.' >> Much better, yeah. >> c) On the "Philosophy" page: More focus on what Freenet actually *can do* for citizens living under censorship and the like. >>> Isn't that what "What is Freenet?" is about? >> Well, yeah, except it doesn't really say anything about it on that page >> either. > > It does now IMHO. Have you read the current version? Yeah, it does mention what you can do with Freenet in general. Dunno. e) On the "Download page": No idea what a "node reference" is. (Could be rephrased or explained better) >>> That's why it's in quotes, and the "Add a friend" page does explain it. Do >>> you have any suggestion as to how to improve the wording? >> Perhaps add a paranthesis explaining the term? > > Is it a problem? If he clicks the link to Add a Friend it will explain it to > him? Given that he has a node running (it links to localhost fproxy). It is not a problem, just a minor usability quirk IMHO. Very annoying to be asked to install a second browser. In this case, a third (using FF with IE as backup. And user is asked not to use IE). More FUD about history leaks. >>> FUD stands for Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. Unfortunately, the warnings >>> about browser history stealing are factually true. Perhaps there is an >>> argument for not naming such attacks if this intimidates people? Is the >>> problem with IE important? There are possibilities for working around it, >>> there has never been much enthusiasm for implementing them (even from ian >>> who tends to be usability oriented). >> Exactly. The user is fears the consequences of history leaks and is >> uncertain what he ought to do, and thereby doubts his security and >> privacy using Freenet. > > He knows what he needs to do - use a separate browser. Don't we make that > clear? It may be annoying but it is clear, no? It is indeed very clear, but as you say, also damn annoying. If possible, I think we should avoid annoying the user. >> IMHO we are exaggerating with this warning page. >> >> Dunno about IE? Is version 7/8 "secure enough"? > > The problem with IE is a deliberate policy decision to ignore MIME types on > most files. There is a registry key to fix it. I think it has
[freenet-dev] Suggestion: Link to bugs needing feedback on the website
In the bugtracker we have a long list of bugs that require user/community feedback. Right now, nobody seems to notice that. I suggest we somehow promote this need for feedback to the website. Possible solution: A "How can I help?" page with a link to: https://bugs.freenetproject.org/search.php?project_id=1&status_id=20&sticky_issues=on&sortby=last_updated&dir=DESC&highlight_changed=48&hide_status_id=-2 ... as well as a few words on how you can give feedback (either reply on bugtracker, send a mail to the devl list or catch someone in irc). - Zero3
[freenet-dev] Beta of Windows tray icon + update.cmd updating
On Wednesday 17 June 2009 00:48:44 Juiceman wrote: > On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 7:16 PM, Matthew > Toseland wrote: > > On Tuesday 16 June 2009 23:16:58 Zero3 wrote: > >> I've successfully (I think?) branched the master branch of > >> wininstaller-staging at github to a new beta branch. This branch now > >> contains the upcoming Windows tray icon. > >> > >> Please feel free to test. Even small fixes like spelling and grammar is > >> more than welcome (because mine suck ;)). > >> > >> Source: http://github.com/freenet/wininstaller-staging/tree/beta > >> Binary: http://privat.zero3.dk/FreenetInstaller_Beta.exe (old jars, > >> seednodes, translations and so on. Not meant for anything but testing) > > > > Cool! > >> > >> The update.cmd script will soon need to support the updating of various > >> helper executables, most importantly freenetlauncher.exe, but if > >> possible, all of them. > > > > Ok. > >> > >> (Are these on the website somewhere yet Matthew? Along with a plan of > >> how they are kept up-to-date...) > >> > >> If update.cmd tries to update bin\freenettray.exe, it should first do > >> something like: > >> > >> taskkill /IM freenettray.exe > >> if not errorlevel 1 > >> > >> (... as we can't update running Windows executables) > > > > https://checksums.freenetproject.org/cc/[filename] > > for filename in: > > wrapper-windows-x86-32.exe wrapper-windows-x86-32.dll start.exe stop.exe > > freenetlauncher.exe > > It would be great if we could see the directory listing when we access > https://checksums.freenetproject.org/cc/ is this possible? > > How do you suggest we check for newer versions of the files? > Downloading them all and then comparing is a waste of bandwidth... I > could compare the .sha1 of the files if those exist. That would be > minuscule bandwidth. > > I propose to start checking freenet-ext.jar this way, saving almost 4mb per > run. Yes, that is exactly how it is supposed to work. Furthermore, checking the .sha1 over HTTPS is a good thing in terms of security. So please go for it! > > > Tag the wininstaller, and tell me, when you want them updating. -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 835 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: <https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/attachments/20090617/056ad779/attachment.pgp>
[freenet-dev] usability testing
is > >> to be expected, we shouldn't display a big, fat, red warning box. This > >> makes users go FUD and think they did something wrong or something is > >> broken. Make it a big, fat infobox instad. > > > > What big red warning? "The node is trying to connect to the network, it > > will be slow for a while." ??? How is this FUD? Users don't read, and have > > unrealistic expectations, so it is IMHO essential to tell them, while we > > have less than 10 peers, that Freenet may be slow for a while. Several > > times when I have done test installs this hasn't even shown up since it has > > reached 10 peers before showing the browse page! > > There will probably always be people around who refuse to read. I > personally don't think we should sacifice usability for smart users to > satisfy the stupid ones :). I don't see why it is a usability issue, we are simply telling the user the facts. > > It's not so much the size that bugged the reviewer, but rather the fact > that it was presented as a *red warning* and not as an white infobox or > similar. Messages do not belong in infoboxes, they belong in messages. If you want the detail you click on it and it will show you the detail in an infobox. So really what he is complaining about is the little red X icon next to it. The purpose of which is to draw the user's attention. This is only shown if bootstrapping is particularly slow as I mentioned above... I guess we could change it to something more innocuous, but people won't read it in that case ... and then they will complain Freenet is slow and tell all their friends Freenet is slow. Of course they'll probably do that anyway ... Also I was hoping we could eventually eliminate ALL of the messages except for ERROR and CRITICAL_ERROR, and just have a link to the messages page for anything below that, and have this shown on every generated page rather than the summaries we have now. Or is that a bad idea? -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 835 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: <https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/attachments/20090617/0cea53f9/attachment.pgp>
[freenet-dev] Good screenshots needed
We need some (3?) screenshots. These must be legal, look reasonably good both in full and when thumbnailed to a reasonable size so we can put them on the homepage. Alternatively, please explain why it would be bad to replace the news on the homepage with a few screenshots. -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 835 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: <https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/attachments/20090617/06d738cc/attachment.pgp>
[freenet-dev] About the website
On Monday 01 June 2009 01:24:24 Cl?ment wrote: > Hello all, > > about three weeks ago I had a HCI webproject to do. > The subject was : improve an existant website (well, I'm not 100% sure that > it > was the subject, but that what we've done) > > I convinced the three other people who worked with me to work on the freenet > website. It was a small project though (3 hours with a teacher in the room, + > 3 hours max of personal time), so we didn't go far. > > But maybe some of what we've done could be usefull for the project. > > Here is the copy/paste of what we've done : > > -- > Objective of the new website: > - To improve the existing navigation controls of freenetproject.org > - To improve it's structural presentation of information on home page > > > Aim of the web-site: > - to present the software product and provide support > - documentation and tools to users and developers to allow them to use and > contribute to the software. > > Problems: > The problems of current website http://freenetproject.org : > - irrelevant information for homepage: mainly financial status, we don't know > what freenet is > - too many items in left navigation menu and not really well structured > - documentation section where subsections do not have direct hyperlinks - its > confusing > > Solutions we proposed: > - simpler horizontal navigation bar with restructured tree > - new menu tree proposition: > > Home -- what is freenet a bit modified page > > About freenet: > what is freenet > philosophy > contributors > > Downloads: > freenet > tools > > Contribute: > papers -- research and stuff > developer > > Donations > donate > sponsors > > Support & feedback > help --documentation and stuff > faq --move out from help section > mailing lists > suggestions > > - restructuralization of documentation page > - homepage holds only basic information presenting projects aim and latest > news > -- > > Of course, it's a very early draft, so it needs to be discussed. > > You'll find attached the files we produced. Please keep in mind it that the > aim > of the HCI project wasn't to have a pretty site, but a functionnal one (so, > it's not ugly, but it's not pretty either). > > Some files are missing, we mainly focused on the navigation and the structure > of the site. It's not very important though, since the contents are exactly > the same that already are on the current site. > > Oh, and I almost forgot : we should keep the financial status on the > homepage, > between the download link and the news (we got rid of it because we found on > the moment it wasn't relevant, but in fact, it's interesting to know about > the > financial health of a project). > > Last thing : I still don't have my grade for this project, so I don't know if > it's good job or not ;) > Is there any chance of reconstructing the logo without the CamelCase? It's always been Freenet not FreeNet. -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 835 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: <https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/attachments/20090617/cf7e7cf1/attachment.pgp>
Re: [freenet-dev] Good screenshots needed
Am Mittwoch, 17. Juni 2009 08:06:30 schrieb Daniel Cheng: > The bad thing is: our fproxy homepage don't have any picture. > > Those little ActiveLinks icons got disabled by default. Try using Firefox - at least for me it shows the activelinks. Wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- Unpolitisch sein heißt politisch sein, ohne es zu merken. - Arne (http://draketo.de) --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl
[freenet-dev] Beta of Windows tray icon + update.cmd updating
I've successfully (I think?) branched the master branch of wininstaller-staging at github to a new beta branch. This branch now contains the upcoming Windows tray icon. Please feel free to test. Even small fixes like spelling and grammar is more than welcome (because mine suck ;)). Source: http://github.com/freenet/wininstaller-staging/tree/beta Binary: http://privat.zero3.dk/FreenetInstaller_Beta.exe (old jars, seednodes, translations and so on. Not meant for anything but testing) The update.cmd script will soon need to support the updating of various helper executables, most importantly freenetlauncher.exe, but if possible, all of them. (Are these on the website somewhere yet Matthew? Along with a plan of how they are kept up-to-date...) If update.cmd tries to update bin\freenettray.exe, it should first do something like: taskkill /IM freenettray.exe if not errorlevel 1 (... as we can't update running Windows executables) - Zero3
[freenet-dev] Beta of Windows tray icon + update.cmd updating
On Tuesday 16 June 2009 23:16:58 Zero3 wrote: > I've successfully (I think?) branched the master branch of > wininstaller-staging at github to a new beta branch. This branch now > contains the upcoming Windows tray icon. > > Please feel free to test. Even small fixes like spelling and grammar is > more than welcome (because mine suck ;)). > > Source: http://github.com/freenet/wininstaller-staging/tree/beta > Binary: http://privat.zero3.dk/FreenetInstaller_Beta.exe (old jars, > seednodes, translations and so on. Not meant for anything but testing) Cool! > > The update.cmd script will soon need to support the updating of various > helper executables, most importantly freenetlauncher.exe, but if > possible, all of them. Ok. > > (Are these on the website somewhere yet Matthew? Along with a plan of > how they are kept up-to-date...) > > If update.cmd tries to update bin\freenettray.exe, it should first do > something like: > > taskkill /IM freenettray.exe > if not errorlevel 1 > > (... as we can't update running Windows executables) https://checksums.freenetproject.org/cc/[filename] for filename in: wrapper-windows-x86-32.exe wrapper-windows-x86-32.dll start.exe stop.exe freenetlauncher.exe Tag the wininstaller, and tell me, when you want them updating. -- next part -- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... Name: signature.asc Type: application/pgp-signature Size: 835 bytes Desc: This is a digitally signed message part. URL: <https://emu.freenetproject.org/pipermail/devl/attachments/20090617/6240db1b/attachment.pgp>
Re: [freenet-dev] About the website
Am Mittwoch, 17. Juni 2009 05:26:25 schrieb Luke771: > Browse and publish 'freesites' (Freenet-hosted websites) This one sounds very nice to me. It gets people into the freenet-speech and at the same time tells them why we use it (what's the difference between a freesite and a normal website). Best wishes, Arne --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- Unpolitisch sein heißt politisch sein, ohne es zu merken. - Arne (http://draketo.de) --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- --- signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ Devl mailing list Devl@freenetproject.org http://emu.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/devl